Hopefully, whatever it banged, I also benefitted from it. Although, I have to admit I haven't felt anything for a while now...
The universe is the sum total of all things united in perfect harmony...
Thus it has no external boundaries...
So we see that any and all bangings are within the universe...
What would you consider the definition of "boundary" is, as you use it?
Your definition of "OUR" universe is?
And, what if "dark energy" overrides gravity and the mass in "OUR" universe continues plowing away from the "center?"
What does "it" dissipate into?
The definitions are, as that which is common among men...
Your dark energy, gravity and mass are all one and the same...
Where there are no boundaries there can be no center except to the perspective of the viewer which he must estblish by himself of himself...
I am assuming you are talking about the universe and not dark energy...
So your "what if" question is an impossibility concerning the universe itself... but does occur within it...
Nevertheless even if it were to occur then all that would happen is that the universe will re-establish it self instantaneously...like a blink..
And the way of the dark matter/ gravity /mass...is to fold into itself until it is naught....
Respectfully, every aspect of your response is incorrect.
Thanks for trying.
You're talking like Cagsill.
Is it a case of possession ?
Whatever it means to you. NP
I'm easy! :
Good of you qwark.
You've just transmitted a lot of peaceful toughts into my mind with those simple words : "I'm easy".
God bless you.
This is for quark and all others who say WHAT GOD first of all people say the big bang was a random occurance and nothing else , Well i say this all you scientists and non scientists alike we are all in agreement before the big bang there was nothing at all ( THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU GO ON )
A GOOSE EGG 0 NOTHING ( if you can conceive that ,) nothing zero. No dark matter no wormholes ETC ETC ETC. NOTHING.SO ?" QUESTION, HOW CAN SOMETHING LIKE THE BIG BANG OCCUR WHEN THERE IS 0 NOTHING. TO SET IT OFF. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK YOU CANNOT MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING IT IS IMPOSSIBLE PEOPLE WEATHER YOU WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT IT IS IMPOSSSBILE.
I SAY THIS THE HAND OF GOD IS THE ONLY FORCE THAT CAN CREATE SOMETHING AS WONDERFUL AS THE UNIVERSE AND OUR EARTH AND ALL THAT DWELL WITHIN HER PLAIN AND SIMPLE WHICH LEADS ME TO SAY THIS.THE LORD GOD IN HIS WISDOM, TOOK HIS FINGER AND WENT (BANG) AND THE REST YOU SAY IS HISTORY SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING = NOTHING
ALL THE SPECULATION ABOUT ALIENS FROM OTHER UNIVERSES AND SPACESHIPS AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF, JUST IS NOT GONNA DO IT. THINK ABOUT THIS.......................
THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY CREATED THE HEAVANS AND THE EARTH AND CREATED MAN IN IS OWN IMAGE, REPEAT IN HIS OWN IMAGE, AND IF YOU UNDERSTAND GODS PLAN FOR US HUMANS THEN WHY WOULD GOD CREATE LITTLE GREEN MEN IT MAKES NO SENSE IT IS REALLFUNNY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT REALLY LOLOLOLOL
GOD CREATED ALL THAT IS SEEN AND UNSEEN PRAISE HIM ALL YOU PEOPLES PRAISE HIM
FRANK A DELEO
You went from unemotional chat to SCREAMING! WHY?
Put the caffeinated coffee down and fix a nice cuppa no caffeine hot chocolate.....and 'relax!"
Are you one of the blessed easily led non thinkers?
Of course there was something there before the "big bang!"
Just because I can peer into a bottle of unshaken beer and see no "foam" doesn't meant the "potential" for foam doesn't exist...right?
Are you familiar with the concept of "googolplex?"
What makes you think that nothing exists at that point in "reality?"
All the laws of science are at work at that level of existence also.
Are ya ok? Relaxed? Good. Now isn't hot chocolate better than that ole bitter coffee?
Nice chatting with ya.
This might help or not? Taken from wikipedia...
Nothing is a concept that describes the absence of anything: no thing
Grammatically, the word "nothing" is an indefinite pronoun, which means that it refers to something. One might argue that "nothing" is a concept, and since concepts are things, the concept of "nothing" itself is a thing.
Maybe we banged from a parallel universe and we are a result of one of its black holes. So our bang could have been a star collapsing into itself creating a black hole in that universe and a new universe is born and here we are! Who knows?
Well, that's a cool theory. Then maybe we could cross into the other universe through the black hole.
Yes that would be cool if they found out. But we might end up as tiny molecules because apparently the vacuum it creates is too powerful. So powerful we cannot get close enough to find out what it is or where it goes. If in fact it goes anywhere.
That's all speculation. No one has the faintest idea what a black hole is truly like. It's like when they discover a new planet. The picture they show is just what they think it might look like, judging by what they think the gas signatures are, or something like that. It is all truly unexplored territory.
Theoretical science tends to speculate all the time.I agree unexplored... and exciting.
Really? Black holes were predicted long before they were ever observed. Their predicted effects are real and measurable and many candidates for BH have been observed. So far, the observations are aligning with the predictions.
But, I'll meet you half-way on your claim in that most certainly, we really don't know what's past the event horizon of a BH. It is theorized that all the properties of the mass contained within have been squished out of the BH due to the intense gravity, with only the properties of mass, angular momentum and perhaps a slight charge.
Haha. That's all theory. No one knows for sure. Didn't they just come out and admit their theory on formation of planets was wrong? The nature of everything in the universe could turn out to be 180% different from anything imagined so far.
Yes, I understand that many believers dismiss out of hand that which they really don't understand when it comes to science.
I'd be interested in reading that, please show me that new theory, then I can give you an intelligent response.
Yes, there is an infinitesimally small chance the universe could just be exactly like the bible describes. Oops sorry, that one has already been imagined.
Aw gee. The fun's over already? That didn't last long.
Oh well,To respond to your (and I don't mean this unkindly) exceptionally tedious post...what does this have to do with religion? Sheesh. Lighten up.
Hey, can't cut and past web addresses on this thing, but if you google 'change in theory on how planets are formed' I see two on the first page that talk about planets that don't fit the current theories and are forcing science to rethink.
I could go to the computer and do this for you, but I think I've already done more than should be expected. More than you'd do for me to back up some of your crazy posts.
Awww curious that formatting button truly is a magician. The links shows you examples of what to type and then shows what it produces if you typed whatever.
I'll try it out. I tried it before, I ran across the most hilarious video I had ever seen and wanted to put it on a humor thread, but couldn't figure out how to make it show up blue. I'll work on it. But Beelz will still have to google that for himself. He never backs anything up with fact when I ask him.
This the link? http://www.msnucleus.org/membership/htm … e5_1a.html
After reading that bold faced lie, I think I'm done with discussing things with you and will just continue to point out your nonsense from time to time.
Considering that I found what you were claiming and then read the articles. Did you actually read the articles or did you just see the titles and jumped to your own conclusions?
Well gee. There were quite a few available. Perhaps we weren't looking at the same ones. Must we argue every point? I'm beginning to think your idea of fun is way different from mine.
To make up, I will agree with you, whole heartedly, that science is way cool; that they are doing a fine job with proving their theories so far, and there is no agreement WHATSOEVER between the camps that science is finding out things the Bible has always said.
K? Are you mollified?
Ah, I see now, fun for you is yanking chains and lying about me?
And what do you think will be the noise when they're going to slurp our region of the galaxy ?
shhhhlurrp ! eeerrrrr!
shhuuuiiiiitttt! pllliiiifffff !
glump! burp ?
So, Why not just bang through that black hole, Huh ?
You are too funny zampano. I have no idea what you are talking about in your previous post.
Neither me man.
And I have no idea about what I'll be talking in my next post.
I don't have a definitive answer except for to say 'it was good for me'!
i love this topic!
there's no real proof, but there's only my theory
if you think of everything, from the sun, the stars, the planets, all living things, we all have one thing in common, we have a life cycle
my theory is, the universe expandes and floats around, but also black holes are created and getting large by the day, these get big enough and the gravity as you would imagine would be so immense it would contract the very universe it self back into one single point,
this desity, this mass wouldn't be able to remain stable for very long, and as you see with stars, that implode, they all eventually let out,
this one point then rapidly expands, thus creating the big bang
so i've always thought this universe was created from the death of the past universe
but to answer your question, what did the big bang bang in, maybe an even larger universe, in which our universe is a mere attom, and we're just bumping around hitting other universes as we float passed, and just maybe, that's also what our attoms are o.0
"...hitting other universes as we float passed,..."
Float passed? In what? Nothing? What is "nothing" made of? What does a vacuum happen in?
Does it all boil down to it "ALL" being, absolutely, inexplicable?
interesting point, but when you look at an atom, 9.9999999% of an atom is empty, once we figure out whats in that space, we may be able to answer your question aswell
Space? What constitutes nothing?
You see what I mean?
That is the question that seemingly is inexplicable.
The question is so dumbfounding that I don't think there is an answer.
there probably isn't an answer, it's very difficult to imagine beyond what we have seen, to try and grasp what's out there is immense, but like you said, we may just be inside a peice of chewing gum.
we could throw ideas at each other till we're old and grey, we'll never find an answer we can agree on,
but 'm interested in seeing what other people write
To ask what exists "beyond" is a kind of question-begging. It assumes there's something, to begin with, and the something is classifiable.
Also keep in mind that, "before the big bang," universal laws could have been VERY different.
It's difficult to say what is beyond our universe. However, I am certain that something does exist there. Some say that it is a paradise. Some say that there are additional universes which are parallel to ours. Whatever it is that is out there, I'm not convinced that humanity should ever disturb it.
Someone must have an idea!
Everyone has an "opinion" on the "silly" stuff, but not on this profoundly enigmatic question. Why is that?
I think the operative question would be, what would knowledge of the outside of the universe be to us?
I once saw brine shrimp under a microscope once. In order to see them this way, you have to take them out of the water and place them under a slide. This kills them.
What if the universe is just that? One big pitri dish and we're all little brine shrimp to whatever is out there?
The "void" is inexplicable and relative.
Nothing is "solid."
Could OUR universe exist within the empty space of a piece of chewed bubble gum on the bedpost of a sleeping child in another universe or dimmension?
I'm very serious about this.
What did the "big bang" bang in?
"What did the "big bang" bang in?" The big bang banged in space. But good illustration. The big bang makes no more sense than no big bang or eternal existence.
Any answer would be purely guesswork. Whilst mankind may have the desire to know such things, the distances involved will make this impossible. Any journey to the outer limits of the universe would take billions of years, even if we could develop the technology, which we never shall. There may not be just one universe, but billions of them. Space could have no end, or there may a void of nothingness, although what nothingness would look like is also guesswork. We assume it is black, but it might be bright pink. And what exactly is nothingness? And how the vast universe exploded into being out of nothingness is something no one has explained. It seems that a lot of science is as much a stab in the dark as is religion. We just cannot accept that there is too much we do not know and can never know, because it makes us realise how unimportant we really are in a universe that doesn't even know we are here. Mankind and the Earth will disappear long before we have the chance to discover the meaning of it all. So, we must create our own truth, whether scientific or religious and fight among ourselves like the apes that we are over who has it right.
Would that be creating a truth despite our universe or aligned with it?
It could be either. I suppose it all depends if you are dominated by the left or the right half of your brain. If the right, then it will be much more pleasing to believe in a religious view of reality. In which case you need pay no attention to scientific discovery or evidence. If the left, then logic and facts would prevent you from believing in fairy tales or religious dogma. Personally I would rather believe in the fairy tale version, as it provides a certain purpose to life. However, I fear I am too left brained to allow for this. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter what any of us believe. In five billion years time, when the Earth has been destroyed by the sun's power, and there is just space debris where our little planet once was there will be nothing to suggest we were ever here. There will be no evidence of our science, religion, economics or politics. So, you should believe whatever you want or need to, because nothing really has ultimate meaning. Good God! (in whom I don't believe) I must be depressed.
Ok, maybe we can't span the distance to see the outer, maybe we should explore the inner. if our universe is part of something bigger, whose to say that concept doesn't go both ways?
Great response Neville. There are said to be states of 'out of body' experience where it is said one can get outside the universe as other-dimensional.
Yes, there is a lot to learn from near-death and out-of-body experiences. Although there is now no doubt that such experiences take place in the brain, they nevertheless provide a great insight into the potential of the human mind and imagination, that normal consciousness does not have access to.
The people I have met who have the greatest love of life and intelligence have all had some form of out of body experience, not necessarily near death but to include. Age as a shortened life
expectancy seems also to help with many but not all.
No one really know, some cosmologists believe there are other universes besides the one we are in.
The big bang came from infinite energy. Easy, given the idea that energy can neither be created nor destroyed... that leaves the question of form. Ultimately no help because our physical selves can't get there from here. We are trapped in this universe, incapable of seeing anything else.
Yes, we are trapped in this universe.
But IF we can survive to the first step of the evolutionary ladder, the possibility does exist that we may become a "successful" species.
If that should "miraculously" happen, I can visualize man progressing to levels of being and consciousness that, at the moment, we can only dream of.
There is no limit to what can be realized by continued evolution.
We exist as our own worst enemy.
Beyond our Universe?
How pray tell do you figure out what is beyond it? How is one to apply, what principles?
Anything outside of our Universe, such as another Universe, then it is already common knowledge about what is outside our Universe and that would be other Universes.
Are they exactly the same as our Universe? I've never a need to find out, because it really has no greater effect on my life to know. Therefore, irrelevant. Meaningless and useless.
"..., irrelevant. Meaningless and useless."
Only to you Cags. But that's ok.
Eveyone has the right to limit the amount of knowledge gained in one's life.
I may never know the answer to many of my questions, but I will never stop asking. It's an ego thing.
The more I think I know the greater bcomes the realization that there are yet so many more questions to ask.
Input, input input!!!!
You're absolutely right.
Let's concentrate on us.
How we can develop our potencial to finally evolve from cro-magnon to modern man.
Still at methaphysical phase...
Parallel, anti- and multiple universe theories come to mind.
Just theory or speculation yet a universe considered to have positive energy may be surround or alongside a negative energy universe.
THE Big Bang was an orgaism. and the universe is in a state of becoming as if it were a fertilized egg.
That is why we don't know diddly about what is, cause it ain't yet.
YEP, I like the idea of the big bang being an orgaism.
It seems that aftr somebody igures out all the technical jargin, some little kid sums it all up in the simplst of forms that suprises everybody.
The little kid in me says it was an orgasism, fertalized egg, and the due date is aproaching
But the egg has been fertilized over and over and we are an offspring.
Actually I'm a bit dizzy tonight.
My dog has ben waking me up at 3 AM for the last three nights.
Last night I went outside with a flash light to show it that nothing was there, The biggist racoon I ever saw was 50 ft, from my front door.
That was just the long way around to saying that I've been up 18 hours and I'm going to soak in the bathtub and pass out on the couch if I can wait till after I get outa Da tub.
Good night Yawl.
Anything is possible.
The point Im trying to make is that it's all happening...in what?
A vacuous void?
If all matter were removed what would be left?
An infinity of "ABSOLUTELY" nothing?
With an infinite # of potential "big bangs" waiting for thier time?
Or, are there an infinite and continual # of 'big bangs" happening every moment of cosmic existence all about us?
This is mind boggling to me.
Or is the "string theory" subjectively and objectively correct?
So many questions for man to delve into! The possibilities are endless and seemingly eternal!
All I can say is WOW! :
What comes to my mind: To exist requires balance, an equal amount of positive energy as there is negative energy.
(Has this been identified or shown to be true? I'm looking at day vs. night, and 4 seasons, and a regular 28 day lunar cycle....)
Dark energy and gravity are at odds.
If gravity weakens as the universe is flying outward, all the matter in the universe will continue out into what?
If gravity doesn't win, our universe will just dissipate into the nothingness of....what? empty space? A vacuous void? and eventually just flame out?
No one knows! Thats why it's such an interesting subject to contemplate.
We are such an infantile species and there is so much yet to be known! :
I agree, a very interesting subject! Do you think its possible for man to understand all about the universe? I personally don't. I think there will come a time when man comes close, and that will be the end of life as we know it.
Would that coincide with the self-destructive nature of Suns? (j/k)
Knowledge is infinite.
The possibility doesn't exist that all questions can be answered.
The problem with gaining knowledge is that the more your gain, the more you realize how little you know.
Be best then to forget knowledge and just "be".
yes, knowledge is infinite - but, who's knowledge?
I can take that 2 ways:
1.Who is knowledge?
1.Who is knowledge?
Assumes that 'someone" can be "knowledge."
What would you mean by that?
would be knowledge "belonging" to someone.
oh, did the apostraphe not belong? lol the knowledge of whom?
What the hell were we talking about?...lolol :
Mans perception of reality is limited to what he perceives to be real, therefore, mans existence is merely accepted to be within the boundary of understanding. Anything beyond mans understanding is thought to be outside the universe of existence because if it can't be perceived it can't exist.
In "WHAT" did the "big bang" bang!
I believe, if I understand your question correctly, mainly there wass jello, and some fudge - thus the bang! and then perhaps a splat! or maybe more splats - that is debateable. There continues to be mainly jello out there beyond where we cannot go. cherry jello.
Is the "big bang" just the result of "god" having an orgasm?
If so!.....Into the vagina of WHAT!!! Oh my gosh!
a reply i wouldnt have minded missing at all
i suppose this to have been meant in a humorous aspect but really i and i am thinking many adults here have outgrown the farts and bum jokes which they regarded as funny when a child.
...and there are those of us who have acceded to higher levels of logical thought which has resulted in understanding truth and reality.
All, THAT is totally contrary to religious belief which is based on primitive traditions, mores, immorality, human death, torture and destruction propounded in a book of fairytales called the bible.
A book that is incredibly absurd, spewing metaphysical idiocy that only a primitive, childish, easily led, religious bigot could accept as being "truth"
Yes, I find it very easy to joke about the inanity in a belief about a 'superman" of the cosmos, who could give one "damn" about the existence of such useless and ephemeral life forms existing upon an atom size piece of cosmic flotsum careening thru space, for a moment, in geologic time.
I find those of your ilk to be amusing but dangerous to all extant life on this planet.
Just a thought here, but seriously, if man were as primitive and childish as you believe him to have been, then how did he know precisely what to include in the Biblical history of the world?
Now, I'm beginning to see something different in your post...spewing metaphysical idiocy that only a primitive, childish....so, we modern humans are primitive and childish for understanding and accepting the metaphysical proofs of the world? Or, are you actually revealing a true inner belief in God?
Ah my presumptuous friend...:
Who says that man knew anything about the biblical history of the world? Imperfect man has an inclination to "embellish" or ignore.
There are no "proofs" of the metaphysical, if you are refering to the immaterial, incorporeal and the supernatural.
YES! we "modern humans" are, still, primitive and childish.
Raf, pls define the "god" thing you refer to in your last sentence. With no definition, it is meaningless.
"God," to me, connotes a concept that has as many definitions as there are those who wish to conceive of it.
You "presume" much my friend. :-)
i am reminded of
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
and again by jesus
Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool:
In this we get a picture that God is not in the universe but that the universe is in God. If so be that the universe is in God then God must certainly dwell beyond the universe.
Numbers can be decieving as inside the human body we have over 3 trillion cells, yes there are a lot of stars and "miles or lightyears" which seem very big indeed but I can imagine God in a satirical way pondering where he put the universe... "the universe, where did i put that tiny thing".
we are not so large as we think or so far distant as in the way we measure distance.
We certainly realize that God (outside time) measures time differently than we do. Can we not also put the same attribute to distance?
i think you won't respond but still...
what is this "universe" to say it as "ours" and their's?
universe is a concept. it may be a collection of galaxies that we can observe or it may be the whole matter and space that exists.if it is all the the things we can observe there may be similar ones in continuum as space has no boundaries or if it is all the things existing then there is only our universe
about the big bang
the bang might have been in the brains of the bang-ists
space(ie, our conceptualization of nothing) cannot bang.
so nothing cannot bang to produce something!!!
Two questions, the first you have gone over and I believe is the main point of this thread, the second, well..
"If the universe is expanding and everything is inside the universe, then what is the universe expanding into?"
"What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?"
for some reason I have this knee-jerk reaction to see the questions as related, not sure why or how though.
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0506 … iverse.htm
I read that site.
The 'Theory of the Brane' is of course, just that, as is the "Big
At this time in our evolution we are "dumb!"
We haven't grasped the first rung in our evolution of knowledge.
Everything is "relative."
Googolplex extends both into the micro and the macro.
My question asks for thought that would consider the impossible i.e. infinity!
In whatever it is that the Big Bang occurred, what does "it" exist within?
It's like looking into the a mirror which is reflecting that which is reflected in a mirror that is being reflected in a mirror adinfinitum!
The prospect of consideration and understranding is "absolutely" mind boggling! It could lead to insanity!
I don't think these answers are the only ones, just wanted to link the 2002 article in case people were interested. Our scientific understanding really has little to do with these kinds of questions. This is essentially the same question asked by the Zohar and pre-socratic philosophers and with none of our modern science but logic alone these ancient people were able to come to some pretty astounding concepts. Like Democritus reconciling two opposing worldviews of "everything is change" and "everything stays the same" to say that perhaps there are unchangeable things and the recombination of these results in the appearance of a changing world, he called them atoms. So we are still where we started with the questions of Thales and Heraclitus, what is the 'arche', usually translated as primal substance but really the question is about the fundamental nature of the universe and attempts to understand nothingness.
Like you said it is mind boggling, that is why they warn you that the result of studying the Zohar may result in insanity. So the kabbalistic path places Ein Sof, nothingness, as the highest attribute of God. Now before the haters come in claiming I'm saying all these theistic things, don't bother as I am referring to the Zohar as an exercise in theoretical physics, just replace "God" with "the Universe". So they describe 'the universe' as both that which contains everything and that which fills everything up.
I couldn't care what ya call the "universe." Call it god if you wish.
Of course there have been great thinkers down thru the ages.
If we put all the knowledge gained during the history of man, it still leaves us with the "knowledge" that the more we "know" the more we realize the less we know.
Logic today is not the same as logic 2000 yrs ago.
The definition is the same but we now have 2000 yrs more experience in life, living and education than then, upon which to base logical thought and action.
Even tho that is the case, we exist as infants in-the-crib, gazing about trying to make meaning of it all and we can't because we haven't gained the cerebral or the techical abilities to be able to accumulate the necessary data and then figure it out.
I'm not inmpressed by words like "kabbalistic," "zohar," "Ein sof," etc., etc..
They represent man at his confused and ignorant best trying to create relief from a natural fear of death and superstition.
Infantile man has imagined the supernatural as a way to placate his fear of just being mortal.
But then that has nothing to do with my question.
If our universe is expanding into "nothing," what is the composition of "nothing?"...and in what is this "nothing" contained?
I don't know, but if "there be whales" floating around out there I think I'll stay right here!! But then again, Spock got to start his life all over again! Hmmmmm......lol!
BTW...Qwark? You are interesting, but weird!!
The short answer is; "we don't know". We know what the universe was like 1/100,000,000th of a second after the big bang, but nothing before it.
I think most physicists would say they thing there was something pre-big bang.
Here's a recent BBC documentary on just this subject, it's quite easy going, but still hurts your head! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bGx3UB-Slg
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