why is there a need for hell?

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   davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

   Some people wonder,  why the need for a hell when they are already in hell?  That led me to write a hub on it yet I still want answers
   By N.K David
   Author of the book,
   “It is time we truly know why Jesus wept at the grave of Lazarus”
   Published by author house. Available on online stores worldwide
   A must read for all humanity
   <snipped links>

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In answer to your question, we are not living in Hell.
      
      Hell is that place where the spirit of person who has died, who has not as yet accepted Jesus as their saviour, a (Non-Believers) goes.
      
      It is not the "Lake of Fire where lucifer/satan and his followers will be cast into.
      
      Hell is like a holding place where your spirit will reside, awaiting the return of Jesus in His second coming. If your spirit still denies Jesus when He returns, it will be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity.

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         Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't suppose you could offer a non-religious explanation of Hell, can you?  I mean, cuz your definition doesn't match mine.
         
         
         Hell is where the evil go at the end of the world.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            A non-religious explanation of Hell would be a holding cell in jail where one waits to see the judge for bail or a trial.

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            vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Where did the definition of Hell come from Rafini..?
            
            Christ Jesus.. That's who told us what Hell is. Then everyone else made it what they want to believe.
            
            

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         As an ex christian it bothers me that you would condemn all to hell who don't believe the jesus yarn to hell.
         I am so embarrassed to have believed that when I was young.
         
         I got therapy when I recognized that my religious threats smacked of megalomania. I am older now, and got over the indoctrination.

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            vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I'll go with Jesus on whether Hell is real or isn't.
            
            After all, He did calm a storm...
            
            

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'll go with the megalomania theory myself. At least I have strong empirical evidence to support it.

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                  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Evidence & Theory...
                  
                  To each their own.
                  
                  

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               Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Same here Vector, Some rather reject the words of Jesus, but his words remain true even when dismissed by others.

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            wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            earnestshub, when one applies for a job or position, the boss has requirements which doesn't add to be a living person, but when he interviews he recognizes a personality, a living body, and chooses him. God chooses living persons who has a personality, a spirit,  liken unto His Son, Jesus. I am sorry, but that's God's demand for Eternal Life. Please learn more about Christianity; it appears that you got a good start, but changed. "For we are destroyed because of the lack of knowledge..."

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You have said your bit. I see no truth in any of it.

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         misty95posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It makes no difference if you believe in jesus or not, I was baptized , yet i dont stand by religion , other than they all lead to the same light , that we live on,  nomatter what path we take , Hell , hell is a layer of thought form, on the lowest levels , if your spirit chooses to see , work out these levels, it will see its equal in light of truth  in thought form, hell is in the mind , they are levels of learning,,,,,,,,when I counted sheep in my head , when my mind was in hell levels,,,,,I prayed in mind for help , to jesus,,,      did I get help,          in a hell sort of way, yes,  all the sheep I counted were lay slaughtered barbarically with razors,      scenes of animal rape,,,you think the horrid  the darkness, your mind shows what we all block in illnesses because we wont face, both sides we try to place these thoughts on others,  seeing  hell , if you fight past the shadows of illusion teach us we create our own hell,,,,,when my mind reverted back to jesus,,,,,,,,,,,a voice quoted, do you not think he had to see both sides , to the the light of truth,,,,,, is there a devil,      there is all you fear, there are all entitys you fear,,,, those fears can manifest this side, be as real as the person stood next to you, in hell,,,,,,,,,,yet when you can read auras ,you also see that these levels in the aura are levels to be conquered, or the mind gets stuck in fear,, levels of illness,           they are manifested illusions, , only you can demanifest,

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      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      the need to keep Christians fearfull of crossing God, keep them tithing and comming back, or be doomed in hell. More brainwashing, a fear of kind of thig

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      yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hell was created for satan and his angels.  But since the fall of mankind, the souls of men now also inhabit hell.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         There ya go! Like I said, hell is used by religionists to threaten others.

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            yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Where was the threat in that comment.  If people are threaten by what I just said, it's not my fault.  Any reasonable person can see there was nothing threatening about it.  Just stating what's what.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The souls of men in hell is not a threat to you? I am a man and a non believer, so yes, it is a threat when it comes from a religionist. You did not say I am going to hell, but make it plain what you think hell is for.

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                  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You seem to be contradicting yourself.  You say hell does not exist for those who don't believe in it, i.e., YOU... so why are YOU feeling threatened by anything I've said concerning hell?
                  
                  'The souls of men' is no threat.  I'm just stating the facts, as I said previously.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Who said I felt threatened? Certainly not me. Your hell is a figment of your imagination.

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                        Dweissposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Hell is not used to threaten anyone. Think about it, if I as a Christian knew that someone one would go to Hell because they did not believe, why would I not do everything I can to tell them what's going to happen? Im not using Hell to scare them to belief, im merely explaining what I believe would happen to them if they did not believe.
                        Besides, Hell is no more a threat than a father punishing his child for wrongdoing is a threat; it's merely God exacting justice on man for his wrongdoing.

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               Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Oh yes, it was your fault, you said those words here on these forums for all to see. And although, those words are not your own, you have embraced and accepted them as reality, regardless of the fact that the concept has never been shown to have any merit or validity and that many more people don't embrace or accept it.
               
               Therefore, you can take any threat made by anyone written in any book, embrace and accept them, and then repeat them here. YOU are then making the threat.
               
               For example, we could open the book, Mein Kampf and begin repeating Hitlers ideas and threats that the Jews need to be exterminated in the name of god.
               
               In other words, if you're going to embrace threats to others, you need to take responsibility and accountability for your actions of perpetuating those threats rather than just regurgitating them and walking away because you feel that all you're doing is:
               
               
               
               

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               Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               yolanda, There is no threat in your comment.

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      CollBposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's a question Christians would say corresponds with heaven and what happens to us after death.
      
      Hell then makes sense when we think of Christ having died on the Cross for sinners - the first being Adam and Eve. 
      
      For non Christians, hell doesn't have the same meaning or significance and use it in normal every day conversation without realising the implications they mean (for Christians).
      
      'Go to hell' and 'hell hath no fury' and other such expressions when speaking about something that stirs somebody to such anger, are what I've heard used in conversations on television and in films, mainly.
      
      Yet,is there a hell?  We've yet to get solid factual evidence of that.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Without hell, where would the devil live? He is not welcome in heaven he is not welcome on earth so where would he live?

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         Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The devil is a zorastrian character that does not exist in the OT. It became part of Jewish superstition in the centuries following their exile to Babylon.
         
         Hell is an Egyptian construct adopted by Greece, Rome and the Catholic church as a method of population control.
         
         The lake of fire is God's purifying fire to burn try each mans works for He is a consuming fire. Hence the figurative use of brimstone which in ancient times was used as a fumigation agent, and a preservative.
         
         There is no eternal torment as that contradicts the nature of God who is good and the concept of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, punishment befitting the crime.
         
         Besides which in Matthew's gospel Jesus continually made the distinction between the good and the wicked. Revelation tells us that judgement is in accordance with our works.
         
         Not all atheists are wicked some are very good. Not all believers are good, some are wicked. Saying some believer's prayer will not save you.

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            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If GOODNESS is all it tajes to save you, then the death (and resurrection) of Jesus was futile, meaningless and unnecessary.
            I wrote a hub on the sinner's prayer for salvation, explaining exactly that point, that a prayer doesn't save you. But, salvation IS a choice.
            
            I don't for one moment accept the idea that an Atheis can (blatantly, willfully, deliberately) deny God, or anything reating to Him, will be saved by his/her goodness.
            None of us have enough goodness in us to do that. Not even the most saintly person you can think of.
            That is NOT the Gospel Jesus tells us to propagate.

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               Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The forgiveness is from God's direction, His act, and is complete and nothing we can do can change it. If my children misbehave, they are immediately forgiven by me. I do not require them to ask for it, neither do I require them to go through some formalised acceptance first. It issues from me as my grace to them.
               
               His death and resurrection made everything possible and was perfection in itself. John the B said 'here is the lamb who takes away the sin of the world' He either took it all away of he didn't.

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                  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  John 1;11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.          12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God.
                  
                  Luke 10;16"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
                  
                  Hebrews 12;25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
                  
                  This includes "good" people.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yup. This is why your religion is so divisive and causes so many conflicts dj. "Do as I sez god sed or god is gonna getcha!"
                     
                     Odd you do not understand that.
                     
                     Or care.

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                     Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     God uses the Father children relationship with man because that's a relationship we have experience of with our children - a parable.
                     
                     If my children continue in disobedience, reject me as it were, they loose out on privileges on son-ship. Those who reject Christ will be judged on that decision. But judgment is defined as one who makes a decision it does not mean punishment in itself, but a God punishment is disciplinary and designed to correct behaviour. This precludes any idea of eternal torture.

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        This rather presupposes that you know what is best for your children. Which - of course - you do not. So it boils down to "do wot god sed" or else. I assume you wait until your children are dead before disciplining them as well.
                        
                        Yeah - this is why your religion causes so many conflicts.

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                           Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry Mark, but my kids are little and at this stage in their lives I do know what's best for them. When they are moody teenagers, perhaps I will not.
                           
                           I discipline them now to correct their behaviour so that they don't end up dead as teenagers.

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                        aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I guess we'll have to rewrite the Bible, and leave all the stuff out we don't like.
                        It's been done before, and I guess, it will be again. I guess the writers got it wrong when they wrote all about hell, judgment, damnation etc.

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                           Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           yep, looks like they got a whole lot wrong

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                           DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           DJ- The information is the bible is not wrong...but only if viewed for what it is...A combined story.
                           
                           Let me ask a question. Is a book on Greek Mythology inaccurate with its stories? No, because they are stories...But, when I take those stories and claim them as truth and then attempt to force others to believe as I do, by physical/mental means, then I create a problem. Each person has the right to thier own beliefs. When I use any type of tactic in an attempt to forcibly change that belief, I am impeding/taking away thier rights.
                           
                           Just my opinion.

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      mecheilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      i don't believe there is a need for that, or that it even exists.
      what would god need it for if he can destroy forever those he doesn't want to exist no more?
      
      hell is one disturbing teaching in most of the christianity that pushes people away. it makes god far worse than any criminal. i mean, even criminals would thrown up having a couple of other criminals being tormented day and night right in his face. where is mercy in that teaching?

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   Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

   It's somewhere for Yankees fans to call 'Home'

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   prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago

   hell is like kharma - there is always a balance in the world - good vs bad, yin or yang, heaven or hell.

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      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      oooh!  I like your answer!!

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         prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         how r u? hows school?

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            Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            hi! 
            
            school, lol, made a mistake on 3 out of 4 of my classes this semester.  I should have believed my elementary school music teacher!  lol  Oh well.  I had to try.  
            
            Really enjoying Philosophy, though! 
            
            How are you doing?

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               prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               good, good luck with studies then!

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Hell is a metaphor. It's not really a place where people go who are being punished for their non belief of the so called mystical god.

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   why is there a need for hell?
   
   Hell is treading a path that does not fulfill the purpose of life; this concept is introduced only as a warning that one realizes that one has gone astray and needs to steer on the path that fulfills the purpose of life set by the Creator-God. Fulfilling the purpose of life is heaven.

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   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   So there can be a heaven.
   
   Religions need both, otherwise it has nothing to threaten it's followers with.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Heaven is also a metaphor Earnest.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes it is.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The "BIG" question is what does the metaphor "hell" and "heaven" actually stand for? Do you know?
            
            I do, but am curious. Indulge me..

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No, please inform me.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Hell- "buried" and/or "grave"- not living life IS hell.
                  
                  Heaven- "Earth" - "The World". If you look at the world and the potential of every single person on the planet(in a positive light), it would truly be the most beautiful place in existence.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Wonderful! That is a very good way to be. In heaven.
                     I am always in heaven, I have children, animals, nature in abundance, real estate agents, (sorry I threw that in for humour, the just walked in while I was writing this.)
                     I should have chucked some raw meat on the ground outside to distract em!
                     
                     Life feels heavenly to me!

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Romans created Satan and the laws to show you the many ways to avoid him.
      
      What a hell of a concept to gain control and power by fear, its makes all loving Yahweh look like the best with a tiny amount of extremely happy people smiling down on hell.
      
      Funny Farm or Torture for Eternity, Up or Down- Your Choice

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         Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I just love free will.

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         vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Satan dates to the oldest books in the Bible. Including Job which was wrote over 3,000 years ago.
         
         No go for the Romans.
         
         

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            Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            When I say the Romans created Satan and the laws.
            
            I'm just saying they made the word Satan very popular and gave themselves greatest power than any other group of Christianity with the word Satan.

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               vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Christ when He spoke of Him watching Satan fall from Heaven as a bolt of lightning was who made the name most notable.
               
               The Romans were Polytheists.
               
               http://library.thinkquest.org/28111/newpage1.htm
               
               

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   Joy56posted 13 years ago

   according to some definitions, hell means common grave of mankind

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   why is there a need for hell?
   
   [4:148] Why should Allah punish you, if you are thankful and if you believe? And Allah is Appreciating, All-Knowing.
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=147

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      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And, if you aren't thankful and don't believe, you will be punished.

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   J.R. Lewisposted 13 years ago

   Hell is simply the absence of God. God is love, He created it, and loves everyone who has ever been or ever will be, but God has given us a choice "free will" to choose to love Him back or to choose to ignore Him, Hell is Hell because God is absent there, all good and lovely things come from God.  Going to hell isn't really a punishment, it's God giving us our own way, to be apart from Him for eternity, the reason it's portrayed as so aweful is because it is aweful, to be completely separated from God would be to be apart from all things that are good. Even if you don't believe in Jesus now, you're still living in the earth that God created and you're not separated from Him completely right now.

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      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Choice: One of a number of things from which only one can be chosen.
      
      "Free will" would allow a number of things from which to choose, not just two. If one is actually allowed to have free will, they should then have the option of choosing neither god or hell. If not, then they really have no choices and no free will.

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         J.R. Lewisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Your right sort of. 
         You can choose to be in a relationship with your mother for example, or you can choose not to have anything to do with her.  You could also choose to ignore her and go treat some other woman as your mother, but choosing to ignore your mother does not make it so she doesn't exist, even though you could choose to believe that she's non-existent, in reality she would still be your mother.
         
         Those are a lot of choices, you could choose to not believe in God or Hell and instead make another choice, but in the end reality isn't changed by your choices, your perception can change, but the truth is absolute. 
         
         We have "free will" but that doesn't make it so God doesn't exist, "free will" is also a gift from God.  I could use my "free will" to say "I choose to fly like a bird"  but as soon as I step off the cliff I'm subject to the laws of gravity and will plummet to the earth.  In the same way one could choose to use their "free will" and choose neither God nor Hell but at the end of their time simply choosing doesn't make it fact.

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Of course, she would be my mother and she would exist, regardless of whether or not I had a relationship with her or not. Your example is ridiculous.
            
            
            
            Then, it doesn't matter what a person chooses to do, hence they have no choices, whatsoever.
            
            
            
            I just explained to you there is no free will if believing in your god or not believing are the only alternatives. It isn't a "gift" its a contradiction.
            
             
            
            Again, that is a ridiculous example that isn't even remotely similar to the so-called free will of your god. You can choose to wear a parachute, you can choose to use a hand-glider, you can choose to land in water, the choices are endless.
            
             
            
            Then, according to your logic, there are no choices and no free will when it comes to your god.

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               J.R. Lewisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's not what I said.  What I said was that you can make as many choices as you like but that won't change reality, won't change the truth.  The examples I used were a way to make it easier to understand. 
               
               Yes in the second example you could choose one of the options you gave but that would not equal flying like a bird, because regardless of my choice to fly like a bird, flight is not an option, I can say it, choose it, believe in it wholeheartedly but in the end I still can't fly like a bird even if I use my "free will" to choose it.
               
               We have free will, we use it to make choices for our lives and what we believe, to answer the forum question, Hell is and is not a punishment.  It's not God saying "you didn't choose me so I'm gonna make you hurt!"  It is God giving those of the world who repeatedly say "leave me alone" exactly what they want, He's going to finally leave them alone.  Hell is a punishment in a way (according to our understanding) because since it is a total separation from God your left with what's left which God isn't, including a lack of love (because God is love) compassion, mercy, grace, the good things that God made etc.
               
               I hope my answer helps people to ponder some, I believe it wholeheartedly, but you're free to choose to believe something else.  I was just trying to offer a different point of view.
               
               Also Beelzedad, in my first example I wasn't trying to imply that it was your mother, I meant it as a generic example like "a person" not yourself in particular, sorry if it came across differently than I intended it to.  I've had fun conversing with you.

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                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Nonsense, I can change my reality through the choices I make. Your examples didn't accomplish what you claimed they would.
                  
                  
                  
                  So what? Do you often make the choice to fly like a bird and step off cliffs? Ridiculous example.
                  
                  
                  
                  Then, he can leave us alone and be done with it while we can go on living our lives.
                  
                  
                  
                  Nonsense, I can experience and retain all those things and more without the need for your god.
                  
                  Again, choosing between your god and hell is not really a choice unless you provide other alternatives. It defies free will.

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                     J.R. Lewisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You can change your perspective on reality but the truth remains the truth.
                     
                     Your slipping on that second one :-) of course I don't decide to walk off cliffs, it was a word picture to help readers grasp what I was trying to say better.
                     
                     That's the point, God hasn't left you alone yet, you're here on earth, which God created, you still experience the wonder of creation to help you see that God is real and loving.  Even though you don't know Him you experience blessings from Him simply by being physically alive.
                     
                     Same as my last point, now here on earth during this temporary life you can experience in degrees love, happiness, etc.  Hell is the absence of God who brings these things, so if someone who doesn't become saved by the salvation that only Jesus brings, dies eventually they will go to Hell and they won't be able to experience those things, I'm not sure what all they will experience but it won't be pleasant.
                     
                     Lastly how does having the choice to choose God or to not choose God defy free will?  Isn't it free will to even have the choice?  Why does the choice have to be 3 options or more?  How is it not a choice? How is it not free will even if there are only 2 choices?
                     I'm interested to hear what you think.

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                        Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Reality IS the only truth.
                        
                        
                        
                        It was a very poor example as it did little but show that one would be insane to walk off a cliff believing they could fly. Ridiculous.
                        
                        
                        
                        That would run contradictory to the tens of thousands of children who die of starvation daily. Where are their blessings, where is their love from your god?
                        
                        
                        
                        I don't experience anything different from reality than I do from your gods salvation, neither do those who die of starvation daily. There is no love or happiness your god provides that I can't find myself without him.
                        
                        
                        
                        Having only two choices is the same as having a gun to the head when it comes to choosing between your god and your gods hell. That isn't free will or a choice if many more alternatives are available. Even having one more choice of neither your gods salvation or an unpleasant hell would be a start to having free will.

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    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    My guess would be need a negative base from which to evaluate. Earth so much more than hell and some degree less than heaven.

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       darren bakerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       **Why is there a need for all the suffering in the world?
       
       ** Why did God make the blind man?   Exodus 4:11 (New International Version, ©2011)
                                       11 The LORD said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
       
       **Why is the color of the sky blue?
       
       I don't mean to sound sarcastic with my last question but the truth is,  the question you have asked is very valid and many of us have pondered it more than once In our lives I'm sure. The truth is God is a holy God and he must punish the wicked.  Righteous Indignation is what his wrath is called,  and the reason he will do this.  The real question is,  will this hell that most of God's creation go too be forever,  or is it eternal.  That is the question.  Most people in the evangelical church today (scholar to layman) have no idea what that answer is because they refuse to study something that most would call heresy.  But there is a treatis that you can read that might help you if you do desire to know the truth. You cannot know the truth if you don't know both sides. Go to your search engine and look up the AION-AIONIOS treatis.  God is going to do what he is going to do no matter what we do truthfully. Can the pot say to the potter why did you make me like this?  The scriptures say NO.   God bless you David.   I hope this helped.
                             Darren

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    pay2cEMposted 13 years ago

    There doesn't NEED to be a hell. It is an invention of the priestly class to scare followers into being obedient and subservient. What need would a God a have to cause people to suffer unimaginably for all eternity when He could just as well vanquish them into oblivion for failing to believe the correct things?
    
    It reminds me of those overly elaborate traps the super villains in movies always come up with to dispose of the hero instead of just shooting him in the face. If hell actually existed, you'd have to seriously question the psychopathic mind of whatever sick and twisted maniac thought it up. If hell is real, God puts Jigsaw to shame.

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    glowingrocksposted 13 years ago

    Time to put on your thinking caps?Do you really think that all of the exploitation and abuse of mankind by his fellow humans will go with out a final justice?Hell is just the final justice of a loving GOD.Will the little children who are crippled in our wars not have justice!Will the small children who are exploited sexually not have justice?There has always been the lawless who abuse and exploit others,some become well known like Hitler others work in darkness.Those who choose to abuse and exploit others will have their just reward.Justice is what hell is about.Nothing to do with fear or scaring people.Just a final justice for those who were abused and exploited.

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       pay2cEMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I have to strongly disagree with you about the "justice" part. Inherent in the very concept of justice is the notion of a punishment that meets the crime.  Regardless of how atrocious the crime a person can commit on earth, it's still a finite crime. Infinite punishment for finite crime is not justice, it's vindictiveness. It's even worse when you factor in the fact that whatever atrocities were committed in life will supposedly be undone. If a murdered child will be resurrected and reunited with loved ones in heaven, then there is no justice at all in punishing the murderer for all of eternity.

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       just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That sounds, maybe if you stretch it, acceptable and just for a couple of people throughout the entire history of the human race. But think about. Sit down and think about it. How would an eternity, in the christian idea of hell, make any sense  from the standpoint of justice. Fifty to sixty years of inhuman behavior, paid back with an eternity of fiery torment. If you think that is just, what does that say about you? What does it say about your idea of a god? It actually makes your idea of what to do with those you deem guilty worse than Hitler's treatment of the Jews. It's worse than genocide. It's more cruel and unjust than any thing man has inflicted on any human.

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          glowingrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It is not MY idea first of all.And you are thinking in only limited circumstances.Here is something to broaden the idea of evil done by men.We have heard on the news about the nuclear reactor leak in Japan.Now lets say some folks got together and decided to save some money by not following some safety rules and regulations ,putting profit ahead of safety,knowing that their act may endanger others . Now lets say that they were building a nuclear power plant and the safety devices failed due to their failure to be responsible?Millions die,millions are damaged and the effects last for 100s or 1000s of years?One simple evil act can have effect on millions and billions and for centuries.Evil acts seldom effect just one person,evil has a way of spreading out like a ripple in water.Take genocide which you speak of,its effect goes way beyond fifty to sixty years.The justice is not in the punishment,they who do evil without repenting will be judging themselves.The justice comes in not allowing evil to continue,and the separation of abusers and exploiters from those who are just.As for evil acts only being committed by a few,only God knows how many.Just in my short life I can see that millions of evil acts are done all the time,most prevalent is the pursuit of money over everything else.Just look at all the pollution in the environment which has gone on and continues to go on,simply to save a buck or make a buck.Caner causing chemicals which effect thousands and will for years,mercury and other heavy metals which will effect millions and has lasting effects in the environment for years. Evil comes in many forms and not just the out right ways which we are all aware of.The worst evils are done in darkness.I deem no one guilty,not even Hitler,I am no judge.Hell is just a place for those who chose to do evil and refuse to change,the justice is not allowing them to do evil for eternity.Sorry if that seems cruel to you.

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             just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Actually I don't consider it cruel because I don't believe in hell. I consider it cruel for you to believe in it.
             
             And I'm afraid you're wrong when you say you don't judge. You appear to be deeming quite a few people guilty in your post. Not to mention the billions who don't profess the same religion as you, who you believe to be guilty of nothing but disagreeing with you.
             
             You speak of evil acts. Your belief that those who aren't christian condemns, in your mind, approximately 5 billion people alive today to hell. That's a heck of a genocide. Will you be held accountable?

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                glowingrocksposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I wil not be the judge.It is not my belief,hell.And why would I be held accountable for what others do,the only way to hell is by being evil and those who do so will judge themselves.

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                   just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Hell is not your belief? Your last post specifically said there were those bound for hell.
                   
                   
                   
                   Now your saying there is a hell. I'm either having trouble keeping up, or you're making excuses.  I do understand your dilemma.  I wouldn't want to have to admit to myself that my thoughts were that evil either.

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    daviddwarren22posted 13 years ago

    Hell is created for the sinners to be punished.

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       No, hell is needed by "believers" to threaten others with.

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          mecheilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          i agree with earnest. they use hell to threaten others
          
          david, can you explain why in the bible it says jesus came down to hell? (read first the bible if you haven't heard of that) i don't suppose you would accept that jesus was a sinner.

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    davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

    Well one thing which is certain and which we must accept is that people have various ideas of hell. It will be difficult to find an answer all will agree because there are many questions to ask about the subject. Okay, within a religious sect like Christians, not all sects belief in hell, soul, or spirit. Some sects even belief in heaven on earth. Good, some will ask, if God is such a loving father why did he create him, even for satan? more questions

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    davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

    Why didn't the teachings of Jesus starting from the beginning and to all nations, if he is the only way out of hell? Why happens to the jews and others that died before the coming of the saviour? Why is it that a God people claim never changes would change his laws and means of reaching him? Is it below the power of an all mighty God to make all tribes follow one religion even before the coming of the saviour? Didn't God know what his actions would lead to when he later sent the saviour?

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    davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

    I got most of the question as I journyed with an unborn child in a work I hope to publish in due time. The main concern of many is that people are already suffering here on earth, no matter the religion because no religion will claim to be free of life problems. But some people like in Middle East and Africa are suffering, so it means after suffering here on earth they will go to hell to continue unless they accept Jesus or what? Is it fair that they didn't even enjoy on earth yet suffer in hell again?

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    davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

    I mean how is it that these people will not have happiness on earth and even after they die expect they follow one religious belief while the same belief was not made available for all tribes at the beginning? they are crying and they think we can at least create a heaven on earth while we wait to die and face the unknown diversity.

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    brotheryochananposted 13 years ago

    There is no need for hell.
    We are to usher people (who have ears to hear and eyes to see) into the kingdom with love. Not threats.
    Its ridiculous to think that God will have drunkards and murderers all burning in hell forever along with goodly people who have not accepted Him. The bottom line of course is not what you did with your life but did you accept Jesus and does he know you as a parent knows their children. Strangers do not inherit Gods possessions.
    Although hell is a good deterrent, knowing its real explanation should make atheists very happy.
    extinguishment, nothingness, no immortality, no life after death.
    You get what you think you will get.
    in summary. There is no punishment forever but there is punishment which equates to just deserves which equates to no happy life forever.
    God is a giver and he has a lot to give, that's the message.

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That is one of the many reasons why your religion has no moral or ethical lessons to teach as it is only crafted to serve gods as opposed to serving mankind. 
       
       If what you say were true, the murderers can murder and get away with it as long as they accept Jesus into their lives. The wake they leave behind matters not as long as Jesus got the attention he deserved.
       
       
       
       And, some will get what they don't think they will get, which I'm quite sure you'll agree.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Yep !    that s right,  there ain't no hell,
    that is juust for people that needs that concept in order to make them to act right/
    
       We all have our own different needs?   I guess.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Have you ever told a story ro your kids in order to make them act the way you wanted them to ?????
    
          It is kinda like that !!!!!

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       Dweissposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Ok, so then, do you believe that there is only a Heaven and no hell?

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    zob2zobposted 13 years ago

    Why is there a need for hell?
    
    Why is there a need for a heaven?
    
    Is it a beleif based upon a faith from our conection to earth which then can provide despite differences...
    All religions seem to have the same ethos, there is a good place and there is a bad place, regardless of name that you upon death will go to. Some regions seem to use it as a threat to keep those that question their faith and beliefs as a sharp n stark reminder to get back into line.
    
    I personally have no opinion upon heaven or hell, it is something that I feel is so questionable that I prefer to believe that there is no end, & we will not be placed in another place subject to our previous actions.
    
    Do not misjudge this statement I have a healthy respect for all those who follow religion no matter what faith it is, its just that I find several aspects of living in this world, my own personal hell:~
    Wars, wars are all based on religion, yet for the common good no matter whether he be called buddha, god, etc, the same respect should be given to all not fought over and many killed in the nae of a faith, it is to me the evil of all evils, & I wish not to be apart of it, although I imagine I will be tainted by the same guilt if only by asscosiation, and the human link.
    
    Yet however it seems that those with faith semm most content even in these times of discontent and for that I am almost envious, but unable to seek soloace in religion on a day to day basis.

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    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    why is there a need for hell?
    
    It is in the plan for life; one who accomplishes the purpose of life sucessfully it is his heaven ; one who disregards it and does not achieve it willfully prepares his own hell. In this sense it is a free will or a free choice.

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    Cagsilposted 13 years ago

    Why is there a need for hell? I have more than one answer for this question- (a)fear tactics, (b)value on human life and (c)for the gullible/ignorant people who choose not to learn.
    
    However, "hell" is actually a metaphor. Figure out what the metaphor means. Just like "heaven" is a metaphor also.

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       Dweissposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Please explain how hell/heaven are metaphors

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    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    One who accomplishes the purpose of life sucessfully it is his heaven ; one who disregards it and does not achieve it willfully prepares his own hell. In this sense it is a part of free will or a free choice.

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    carolinemoonposted 13 years ago

    For sinful people to be punished.

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    davidkalugeposted 13 years ago

    Well someone said in this forum that all religion belief in hell and heaven but that is not true. Some religions belief in circle of lives, reincarnation while others teach that the dead are asleep and not aware of anything. so the views are not the same in all religious settings.

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       paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       All Revealed Religions do believe of heaven and hell; it is one of the pillars of the truthful faith set by the Creator-God.

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          Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          As far as I can tell Judaism does not believe in hell.

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             paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             They are many denominations; some of them might not. Those who don't believe in heaven and hell; are not revealed religions. Is there a quote from Moses where he denies heaven and hell.

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    tsmogposted 13 years ago

    I don't believe "Hell" is a place we go for any reason. I agree with one statement in this dialogue that it is metaphorical when used in context. I agree that historically it has evolved. But, unsure I sought the web and learned more of hell. Most of my experience with hell always indicates eternal damnation. I get lost with this because it is inferred as an eternal experience and that to me is life. Then I wrestle with 1John 5:12 and John 3:36. After wrestling with it, for self, I concluded hell and damnation to be hogwash or there is either life or there is not life. For more information try
    
    http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html

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