Bible is a dead book

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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/51105?page=6

Joy56 wrote: All we try to do is encourage people to look to the bible for answers; we feel they are all there.

Paarsurrey says:

Does Bible respond with reasons, wisdom and arguments?

But Bible is a dead book; if it would be living if it would give responses with reasons, wisdom and arguments which it does not provide.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seems here is a book many in your faith turn to to find 'answers', Paar
  
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have become my hero. Stellar post.
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  tonymac04posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think this is a little unfair - nuclear weapons and other WMDs were mostly invented by Christians, or at least Westerners!
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not invented, used by Christians for sure. Not a single Christianity dominated country wants to give up on their nuke power that explains everything.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can you, honestly, blame them for their fear of how it would be used?
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can blame united states for bombing in japan(nuke), afghan and pakistan. Greek's post was just sarcastic attempt to take paar's post down and totally unrelated. Only staunch christians and residents of united states will find that funny.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct. How dare the united states do everything possible to end the carnage of world war II. Heathens, I tell you.
  
  I can't think of anything sarcastic to say about the rest of your succinct little diatribe (I'm in agreement), except I would disagree with you about the Greek. He's a funny guy.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ending world war ? wow that's one good irrational excuse. On greek's post, his humor or being nice/funny has nothing to do with that post. That post was totally unrelated.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, his post was unfortunately and sadly relevant. I certainly hope no radicals get their hands on nuclear weapons; and I would gladly tell you I was wrong, if the evidence came to light that you are correct.
  
  As far as the end of the war? It always fascinates me how the lessons of history are twisted to promote an agenda. Unbridled aggression as was seen during World War II has no right to complain about any means used to end it. To imply the Allied Powers were somehow responsible for any of the carnage turns a blind eye to the intent of the Axis Powers. Attempts at world domination do have a tendency to be very bloody.
  
  I suppose you also believe our distaste for Nazis to be unwarranted?
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Let me guess US puppet bin laden who bombed US when his deal with CIA terminated ? By relating their hatred of US with their capacity to hold nukes,that makes it relevant eh ?
  
  Evidence ? As if you're going to put your feets outside your home to the war zones to see the truth of your military strategies which are totally contradictory to what civilians defend in forums.
  
  Oh yeah, if it's against US then it has to be some agenda eh ?
  
  Nope.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. Your opinion is way way out there. No point in discussing it, since you've obviously determined it by your emotions not the facts. Good luck with that, though. Not a road I care to use when looking at the world. Blinders tend to stand in the way of impartiality to the facts. And certainly stand in the way of solutions.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This coming from a theist guy who is defending military domination of united states ? WOW. I clearly see the blindness in your thinking, not that i doubted in religious forums while seeing your posts. Solutions ?
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Um, not a theist. Not defending military action by the united states. Simply calling a spade a spade. Stamping a little foot and posting a laughing face will not magically change facts, or history. So sorry.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Facts and history coming from people like you who post happy smiley when they don't mean it, is much worst than sarcasm. Theist like you who hide behind agnostic stance with happy smiley's all over the forums talks about magic ? is that biblical effect, that's funny. You never presented any facts even when you attempted to defend greek poorly in that post. Calling spade a spade eh? if united states nuke or bombs then it's fair and if their puppet enemies attempt to do that then it's out of facts/history eh ? Awesome.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I'm not hiding behind a smiley face..I'm trying to be polite, otherwise I'd post a couple of laughing faces. What facts would you like me to share? The ones any reputable history reports? You can type, so I assume it would follow that you can also read. Since you continue to argue an unsupportable stance I assume you choose to read only what biased literature you can find to support your world view. Ok by me. But, I'm in a free country, so of course I would be ok with that.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh don't tell me you don't hide behind polite smileys with that sarcastic replies. You never posted as polite but more of sarcastic in religious forums, anyone with non-christian brain can spot that. As for reputable US biased history reports, bring it on. It's you who is on unsupportable stance. Because it's your country messing up international politics, bombing on other countries, releasing military maps that aren't approved by respective countries. If you choose to ignore that like true US kristian, i'm ok with that.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. Let's take a step back, if you are capable. We were discussing WWII. This is an entirely different argument. I do not support US military action right now. But, I don't support the aggression of terrorists either. I have strong reservations about US policy across the board.
  
  That said, your stance on behavior of the Allied Powers during WWII is shortsighted and biased to the point of being incapable of a rational conversation on the subject. In my opinion. Aggressive attempts to control the world have no right to cry foul at whatever means are used to end the aggression.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for telling the truth.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is an uninformed opinion. That does not equate to truth.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol. yeah sure.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  sarcastic? For sure
  
  unrelated? Ask the relatives left behind by those who died in 911 what book the Islamic extremists are using
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not unfair in the least. Nobel invented dynamite. Do we reference him when it is used? The chinese invented gun powder. Are violent crimes committed with guns somehow their fault? What you chose to do with anything is your own fault. The evidence is clear that radicals would revel in the possession of nuclear weapons. His post was dead on.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for telling the truth.
  
  The only people who used the Atomic bombs in reality are Christians.
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  Ken Bartonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, most WMD were created by people who didn't believe in anything but the power of science. Had they been truly dedicated Christians they never would have created WMD. Now some good folks had their inventions misused and abused, but the initial intent was not for killing.
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  Jean Bakulaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What's wrong with science. Power is neutral in itself, it's people who use it for good or evil.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to cut in, but couldn't resist answering your question:
  Same thing that is wrong with the counterpart of science --the feminine science--sensationalism (often titled religion). They exist.
  
  James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Greek, many people think that Christians should lay down and not defend themselves, but this is not true. When in a big fight with an enemy, God's Spirit helps us to win...His Spirit quickens our spirits. That's the way it is presently; althought, Christians must have peace as their ultimate goal. A Christian is no one to punk.
  We make a mistake when we apply scripture of love and peace to an evil person. They fall into the Old Testament of shed his blood if stranger breaks into your house...eye for an eye. Jesus's statements and scripture of maintaining peace and taking a slap and turning the other check is for Brothers and Sister within the Body Of Christ...believers.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  an eye for an eye just leads to a whole bunch of angry blind people
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yah and speeding tickets of a million bucks leads to a bunch of peed off (ex)drivers
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Greek, we have the Son Of God Covenant now, but to be covered by this love covenant with better promises from God one can not do evil acts. If one does evil to another he is under the Mose's Covenant in the Old Testament. Christians are not ones to punk. God doesn't want them destroyed and quickens their spirit to defend themselves. Once attacked it's go man go.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the soldier who Jesus told Peter not to strke... was he a Christian?
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  thebrucebeatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very good.
  Jesus himself didn't fight back against those that attacked him, but allowed himself to be sacrificed by them. He didn't fight back, and let that be a far more powerful message.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Christians have constantly to spoon feed Bible.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've never seen a christian spoon fed, but I'd rather see a christian spoon fed to follow than a muslim horsewhipped for not following; and that, unfortunately appears to be an option in Islam.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Jesus rose from the dead. A living brathing being full of the glory of God. The only person to walk into hell willingly to die for your sins.
  
  Jesus is the Bible and the Bible is Jesus. Reasoning is a man made thing. It cannot reach to the heights of God.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Um, not to be difficult. Jesus was called the Reason of God. They were talking of the reason of the mind, not the reason for his presence.
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  jreuterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh dear, more perversions of reality and history from good 'ol paarsurrey. Your own Qu'ran orders you to obey the Torah and Injil, it just so happens (unfortunately for Muslims) that Mohammed was unaware that these books contradicted his own writings. And before you feed me the old argument where you re-interpret the Qu'ran to fit with modern-day Islamic apologetics, answer me this: Why would Mohammed himself take an oath upon the Torah and deem it "good" if he believed it to have been corrupted? Your constant attack upon Christianity and the Bible is unfounded according to your own belief system. The real tragedy here is that theists such as yourself are siding with atheists in an attempt to undermine the very faith out of which Islam was born.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As opposed to which "living" book?
  
  What a ridiculous claim!
  
  The Bible has life in it like no other. It may be made of paper and ink, but the words in it are alive, to those who receive it. If there's no life for you, thats because you are not receiving any. So who's dead, you or the book?
  
  Millions have found life, I mean LIFE there, that cannot be found anywhere else. Sorry you missed it. But, it's never too late!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you still upset over the burning of the Quran by another believer from the very same religion that embraces the Bible? Is that why you're posting a personal decree of that holy book?
  
  Seems a thinly veiled motive on your part.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Paar,
  
  Surely, you are not suggesting, by this statement: "Bible is a dead book", that the believing, former believing and flat-out antagonist have been arguing against each other, quite vehemently I might add, over a dead item? Dead as in a purposeless, useless, sin qua non of humanism?
  Hmm, if so, you have just called thousands of people, who over the last three solid years on HP (some more, some less), dead, dumb, etc --since they have been using that book to argue about the book and other things outside of it --for AND against that book and what that book entails. Is this what you're saying?
  
  James.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I say humans have issues; stories don't do any good if there is no reality in them; if Bible does not provide claims and reasons and wisdom on issues faced by humanity it is no more relevant; it is a dead book not intended for this age.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Precisely. How funny that you do not understand that this argument also applies to the Islamic Majik book.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't agree with you analysis obviously, but better a dead book than a book of death
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  justchillinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it's alive for millions of people, still the most popular book in the world. I don't particularly believe in it but it does have nice stories to learn from.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good to hear someone elses opinion
  
  Welcome to Hubpages.
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  Vibs245posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bible is a bool written long back in a different language to answer the questions people had more than 2000 years ago. Of course certain portions can be useful and are if someone can understand the language.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is not in its original language and does not mention reasons and arguments on an issue.
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  wba108@yahoo.composted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is true that the bible is a dead book. Its impossible to comprehend without a revelation of the Holy Spirit.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..and with the Revealing of the Spirit, the necessity (crutch) of a book (to confirm or deny the Spirit & the testimony of the Spirit --which is the spirit of prophecy) is removed, as if it never existed.
  
  James.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, along with the quoran.
  Same book, different threats and idols.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Looks purposeful to me:
  
  1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
  
  2 for gaining wisdom and instruction;
  for understanding words of insight;
  3 for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
  doing what is right and just and fair;
  4 for giving prudence to those who are simple,[a]
  knowledge and discretion to the young—
  5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
  and let the discerning get guidance—
  6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
  the sayings and riddles of the wise.[b]
  
  7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
  but fools[c] despise wisdom and instruction.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..under the Law of Sin/Death Torah was required to instruct humanity in those measures, so yes, I agree to that text.
  However, under the Law of Life, no such necessity or requirement exists. In fact, should anyone read the text fully and understand it, they would see Torah is "beneath them" meaning the Law is beneath Grace/The Mercy Seat, sealed forever in the tomb/box.
  
  At the time Israel did not know the weight of the Law they carried, carried less "weight in gold" than the mercy seat set on top of it, which carries "much more weight" --by volumes.
  
  James.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thankyou for your explanation James.
  
  I do hope paarsurrey is reading and taking note.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you sweetness.
  Although I highly, highly doubt Paar would have a clue.
  
  James.
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Cagsilposted 13 years ago
Bible isn't the only dead book.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly!
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God said to FOLLOW him. That means to keep at it, or He will lose you in the dust. If we have the prudence to realize that He keeps on trucking, we may want to GEAR UP and PICK UP on what He has been saying, in diversified places and to the four corners of the earth. SEARCH for Him in another account if you can't understand the veracity of His caring teachings in one - then, STUDY and PRAY for the ability to corroborate the details, if you want to keep up. Otherwise, or until you can do that successfully, don't teach about driving a rig without the ticket to know how to drive it safely yourself. The Great Spirit prefers people to drive properly on His Highway.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  FreeThoughtistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And capitalizing "he" only diminishes the impact of your argument, Tim.
  Emphasis on irrelevant parts of specific sentences detracts from your point in that we need to learn more about your god before we can comment of him. Does being Christian and believing it to be true make anything even the slightest bit clearer when your judgement is clouded by faith? At least us atheists look at what's in front of us rather than saying it's just some game we play to see if we're worthy of eternal torment or bliss.
  
  You blindly follow a fictional character knowing full well that you would be an eternal slave to his will.
  
  Yeah... And we're ignorant.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Free, you guys are not ignorant, just haven't experienced receiving the answer. Faith confirms itself.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, Yeah, FreeThoughtist, Welcome to HubPages. Before you think too much in your free-thinking way, know now that “Christians” are given witness by the Holy Spirit - and don’t be offended, there is that same Spirit waiting for you to listen, AFTER you consider what you have read (i.e. the scriptures, in earnest).
  John 15:26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and if that doesn't do it for you, consider the alternatives spirit behind the word quotation:
  
  If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
  
  Now there's an incentive!
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that was if they prophesied falsely, after going to the cleaning fountain, Earnest. I guess like the Word, the fountain of cleanliness doesn't take to some people. It's like when your wheels squeek too much and they don't take the grease ...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I understand the context, do you see or understand the insanity in this and others?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nope
  but the fact that you still do appalls me
  How about when Jezebel killed the 400 prophets that were actually of God. I guess that doesn't count does it because God didn't do it huh.
  Really you are so one sided i'm surprised yer guts don't fall out
  
  1 Kings 18:13 Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD'S prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
  
  sound of the idiom "payback is a B****"
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  FreeThoughtistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So quoting a book that you rely on to be true in order for your quote to be relevant proves what? Btw, welcoming me would be nice, if not for the malicious intent.
  I think you might want to read a little more biblical stories before you start quoting because having read it I can say that it was what caused my disbelief. Maybe you should read the part about where 'god' says that you're supposed to rejoice in others' persecuting you (Matthew 5:11) or that you shouldn't [ever] plan for the future (Matthew 6:34). Do these sound like an all-knowing god?
  I'm hurt that religion has turned good, meaningful people such as yourself into a slave, as it did once with me.
  I am free, and I shall rejoice in that instead.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  FreeThoughtist, the original comment which has let to your latest post which I have received this morning asks, and then compares, with a nuance of your personality being evident: “Does being Christian and believing it to be true make anything even the slightest bit clearer when your judgement is clouded by faith? At least us atheists look at what's in front of us rather than saying it's just some game we play to see if we're worthy of eternal torment or bliss.”
  Before I try, in my best spirit, to make my position crystal clear, let me apologize for the tone of my “Yeah, welcome to HubPages … ” quote, and properly welcome you to HubPages this way: “Happy to have you with us FreeThoughtist.”
  As far as the capitalization of the second-person pronoun reference, which I use of God, out of reverence, well, I shall continue to do that, and if it detracts from your perception of equality, then you’ll just have to deal with that.
  Your reference to Matthew 5:11 is something I have to deal with, and am only human about. Here, let me point out, you are subtly persecuting my belief that this is a good tenet to follow, as difficult as it is to do. I stand convicted.
  Your reference to Matthew 6:34 talks of a great way not to “fret” about, specifically the “evil” the morrow may bring, not about planning for the “future”; lest the whole book is useless, my welcome friend! For that is a huge component of faith; that is, the TRUST and reliance in that God’s Promises, WILL come to pass, or the blessings promised will be bestowed. This is contingent upon either our following His guidance, or it will happen independent of our actions, for instance concerning His return.
  This trust in people (I consider God to be an autonomous person, and much more) is belief in the future too, and we can adjust our plans according to that faith, rather than not giving others the same freedom, which we then have to rely on, in respect to their relationship to us, and the promises (or even social contract) we have made to each other. Obviously, the internet is the least reliable body we can trust, because it is open to those we have no real “contract” with. Having said that, I reiterate, the Holy Spirit witnesses the truth of all things unto us, not man; therefore, I hope you will be receptive to the same Saving Grace. This Spirit clears up one's vision (perception), and does nothing to detract from it, either.
  Finally, as far as being a “slave” to one I revere, I must say that it is quite the opposite for me. He has relieved my suffering and released me from the bondage and grief of my past uncivil moments, and the pains of conscience which I felt as a result of those thoughts and actions, for which I became sorrowful of, and did turn in repentance from. I’m sorry you did not have the same experience - you are welcome to try again, if you can see a need for it. I cannot promise you a specific result, because of its “contingency” as alluded to above, all I can do is testify of the success it has brought to my paradigm and joy it has brought to my countenance. Peace.
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  FreeThoughtistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First, Tim, I would like to thank you for the sincere welcome and clarify that I had no ill intent in my message but that I change nothing.
  Second: showing bias in argument isn't revealing personality but rather a sign of dedication to the side. So where would that leave a debate if one or more sides took no conviction in their stance? Let everyone know that a discussion's body mimics the areas that the presenter(s) lack in; that's to say that if a person doesn't believe what they are saying in at least a biased sense then the argument lacks meaning. But so what if I were showing personality? Should the Bible rob me of that too?
  I read the following paragraph and realized too that your argument was lacking (after a few double-takes). The use of the phrase " is something I have to deal with, and am only human about" when referring to my first quote unfortunately makes your entire argument for it null; yes, you are "only human", but in no freaking way does that rid you of intellectual responsibilities that we, as humans, have evolved to do, and do best. You may as well not love, procreate or enjoy life at all since those are also attributes/actions we share mutually. So how exactly is it that exclaiming your humanistic qualities address the argument? It doesn't.
  Next quotation. I feel as though you misconstrue the way this verse is intended so as to interpret it the way you think it should be; this is unfortunately fallacious. Under the King James Bible's Matthew 6:34 says the following: "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself." This clearly emphasizes how it was intended to constrain one's thinking outside one's box (which in the time it was written functioned better as a civilization, since there was less flak from the intelligent ones such as ourselves). Not only that, but you also derive the conclusion that even planning for the future is a sin, since Jesus himself said it to be so. Tough though, because life isn't really like that.
  Moving on to your misuse of capitalization; whether you're yelling or trying to emphasize that you merely repeated among the most popular biblical 'promises' without addressing the quote at all either, you're mislead. I should probably note your 'considering' god to be an autonomous person not only goes against many others' view of god but proves that the bible is interpreted in more than one way by a large enough majority that you had to put that statement in there at all. Oh, and belief in "the future" isn't a belief anything like religion, rather a demonstrable fact (just like evolution).
  And I come to you; us, they, them and we. We are us and they are them. But aren't we them? And where am I going with this?
  I see a lot of me in you, as I was once a believer. I once thought there was a man in the sky watching me, protecting me and saving me from illness. But then I realized something quite profound, and far more satisfying than what religion even could offer, given that in the time it was written there was, apart from a few Greeks, little knowledge of the universe in all its magnificence; I realized that it was society that watches me, it was the authority that intendedly protect me and it was science that keep me from illness. You see, if prayer were what heals best then we may as well tear down hospitals and research laboratories because it is the inferior method. But that's just it: it is the best we have and it always has been! Discovering the real, the tangible and the existent are far more thrilling than even belief. You and I, us and they, are really just we. We are earthlings, and we live alone. A belief for which there has never been evidence didn't work for 99% of past civilizations and don't for us either.
  If you have a guilty conscience because you are gay, stole, attempted suicide or have lost loved ones, believing that those actions are reparable is a valid belief but it is not a god that judges us but rather, ourselves. And it's these times of need that we turn to whomever we have, especially if we think there is someone with us always. But there's one major psychological problem with this: the paradigm is fragile, and once shifted may not be shifted back. I hope that rationality has not left you because I truly believe your conviction to this way of thought but I must urge you not to fall too far as to not crawl back out. Belief without evidence means that the real world does not have true bearing on your interpretation of reality; I sincerely hope this does not consume you as it has the large populations that it has.
  You are a good person, regardless of what the book you believe in says. You do not deserve to burn for all of eternity on the basis that you were "born sinful", stole, hurt, hated or lusted, nor does or will anybody else. It's our actions that determine who we were, who we are and who we will be, not our beliefs. In this, I believe.
  You're better than you think
  - Free
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Woman Of Courageposted 13 years ago
The Bible is full of life. The Bible's authority is unlike any other book ever written. Many people have been set free by the power of the word of God.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting...
  Yep, it's a legend in the mind of the believer. It doesn't have any authority whatsoever, but believers need it to.
  Yep, free from living, free from starving to death, because they are already dead. Many of those who haven't believed were also enslaved and imprisoned. Some were executed for no sane reason.
  
  Yep, the word of a god promotes life?
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  kmackey32posted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can deny and ridicule the word of God all you want. The truth will stand no matter what. It should not surprise us that, no matter how the bible is attacked, it always come out unchanged and unscathed. After all, Jesus said, " Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." Mark 13:31
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But Bible contains little of Jesus' words; it is authored by the sinful scribes and then derailed by cunning Paul, scribes and the Church they say it is written by the Creator-God for by the Son of Man-Jesus, it is neither authored by the Creator-God nor by Jesus. If one collects all the words from Jesus' mouth, it won't form more that a few chapters or less than that:
  
  [2:80] Woe, therefore, to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ that they may take for it a paltry price. Woe, then, to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=79
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who exactly do you think wrote the koran? Pretty samey isn't it?!
  
  The bible is an interesting book, so is the koran, torah, bhagavat gita and the guru garinth sahib. You shouldn't live your life by them though, they're at least 300 years out of date!
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Koran is Word revealed authored by the Creator-God; it is not authored by Muhammad.
  
  Quran is books which gives commandments with rational reasons and arguments in its context; it needs no external arguments.
  
  Bible does not provide the same; so in that sense it is a dead book; its followers have constantly to spoon feed it make it relevant.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  chill paar , it is human psychology to believe that book they believe in, has been authored by god....
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be ridiculous. The koran is writte by people the same as all the other holy texts I cared to mention. Men, specifically.
  
  Muslims are spoon-fed the same as any other religion; more so in fact as most don't understand what is actually written ad they're reliant on their particular immam to tell them what is written and how to iterpret.
  
  This was the case with Christianity too, until the reformation 500 years ago!
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  thebrucebeatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, the Reformation did very little to change a thing. Most Christians are not terribly literate about their own scriptures.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I said that to make the point that before that the bible was written in latin and therefore the proles of almost every christian country were unable to understand it.
  
  The koran is written in arabic and therefore not able to be understood by the majority of its readers...
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have a bengali friend who is muslim as is his wife. He and his wife cannot understand arabic yet his wife reads the koran in arabic everyday. She has no idea what it means. Many muslims do this. They have no idea what they are reading yet they chant or recite it religiously. I made myself laugh when I wrote that last sentence.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I find it pretty laughable too, to be honest. Why would you bother; I might just scrawl my own korans in my house and flog them on. Most muslims on earth speak Malay, Bengali or Hindustani in any case - who would know?!
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Latin, huh?
  Are you sure? Latin?
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, latin. What's your point?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/Vulgate/
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure of his point. Does he mean that it's laughable that I said that the Bible was authored in latin until 500(ish) years ago?
  
  Does he know absolutely nothing of what he speaks so much about? Has he heard of William Tyndale? Does he wonder where the word "bible" comes from?
  
  I mean, you'd just google it before you made yourself look a fool wouldn't you?!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I would!
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, what exactly did YOU Google?
  
  Why is it that I have to do all the work for you guys?
  
  http://www.biblica.com/bibles/faq/11/
  
  It was the Latin that kept the masses in the Dark Ages. They never made the contents of the Bible free and available to everyone. That's partly what created all the wars and conflict, you all keep harping on.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was my point. What are you on about then?
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What part of my post do you NOT understand?
  
  You claimed the Bible was written in Latin. (misleading)
  I agree it was, but I'm pointing out that it was NOT the original language.
  
  Curious. What does "Bible" mean?
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't being misleading in the slightest; I was comparing the koran (written in arabic and therefore incomprehensible to most of it's readership) to the latin bible which dominated for the MAJORITY of the bible's existence because of its inability to be challenged by the proles.
  
  The Torah/ Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the majority of the new testament was written in Greek. I at no point said that it wasn't, or even alluded to this.
  
  Bible means - or is derived from - "holy book" (or biblia) in Latin.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  paar, if you had a meeting with your corporate boss for an hour detailing his new views, than you must communicate this to 10000 employees in various departments who had different concerns; would or could you translate in a manner that each department accepts congenially relative to their needs of that department or would you just play a recording of your boss to everyone?
  The bible is given more credibility when many authors espouse the same precepts; after all, we are many unique souls.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Amen. The Word of God is the first and final authority. In fact, it is the only authority.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  By "set free" do you mean "burned at the stake"?
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark K., you speak as if your bunch is completely sanitized. I don't think so. Why must Christians be perfect before they are credible.
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  Andrew0208posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you enjoy flexing your musle at things like this. But does it really count and matter that you do not presently believe nor understand the Spirit behind the living Word.
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pisean282311posted 13 years ago
No religious book can be dead...it contains myths , facts and assumption but at same time it contains points which are time less classics...but yes idea that any book is divine would die..no book would be able to stand test of emerging realities..but books still would remain relevant but from context of psychology than mythologies which it contains...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True when I think about it. A history of psychosis and a reminder that we have learned a lot about man's inhumanity to man and the use they made of fear to motivate.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No such thing as a dead book. First, must be alive. No books are alive. Each book is valuable, unless of course, you happen to be a book burnin' Nazi. Ever see "Fahrenheit 451"? Be tolerant of others, and no more talk of dead books, we'll have to send in the exorcists.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  earnestshub, true about the inhumanity; the bible states how man would be when he first left the Garden Of Paradise. We live in a falling world. Each must repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior for the inhumanity to stop. Christians are trying while you atheist point fingers at us. Is this a case of the kettle calling the pot black?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is not accurate. There is no mention by Immanu El, from himself nor the first 12, that one must "accept" "Jesus" to stop the humanism. It is however highly noted that one must "accept" the free gift of the Work, whereby the Teacher comes to lead/guide into all truth --removing all consciousness of Sin/Death, Judgment, etc and restores humanity to Righteousness, to Peace, to Joy --and transform each one into the living (and literal physic, mental & spiritual) glory of Creator. That is the difference between faith and doctrine. Doctrine proclaims necessity that can never be achieved [see the Law of Moses & Law of Sin/Death]. Faith proclaims no-necessity [see Law of Life] and achieves far more than one can imagine. The simple acts of living forever, perfect health, a sound mind, bodies glistening with light, torrents dismissed with a single word, are but a drop in the "bucket"...
  
  "You" live in a falling world, because there are none with a true testimony of their own --true vessels of honor (evidence of righteousness), true Spirit in them --versus minds cluttered with chapter-verse, "plastic fruit" or worse "pseudo logos".
  
  Something to consider...
  
  James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Twenty One Days, your discourse sounds eloquent, but it won't work with the masses; maybe for your small bunch? Faith in the Son Of God is the only way for the masses on this earth to stop destroying each other. It's stop "inhumanity", not humanism. Faith must be in something, that is a necessity. Are you referring to faith in self? Are you a humanism? We live in a fallen world and there is no history otherwise after the Garden Of Paradise. Get real!
  Cluttered with chapter-verses, plastic fruit, there are millions that have actually experienced a new life, and we shall continue to testify of our Savior, Jesus.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  For once I am with James on this. You have completely misunderstood your majik book.
  
  All done for ya huh? Majik!
  
  No wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark K., I see that you are still in your lead suit; Absorbing nothing.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't know what you are talking about. You have nothing to offer because you do not understand your majik book.
  
  This is why your religion causes so much conflict.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark K., come out of that lead suit. You sound as if you are in a dark cave shouting negative marks.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  {{ shakes head }}
  Oye Vay, humans.
  
  You, me, Mark, everyone who has Faith (real action of it, not pretend to have it faith) IS a son of "God". Putting your faith in one mans work, is like putting your faith in Noah and him building the ark, while you either watch from the bleachers and drown in your laziness or try to get a free ride on someone else coattails. This is the serious problem with religion and the massive collective apathy, idolatry and more... But that's humanism for you, a twisted selfish pup biting the heels of the one who feeds them; over eating trash, vomiting it up and eating it again, as if it were a brand spanking new plate of food.
  The Work the man did, which all the crows keep crowing about, is not to be worshiped or idolized, but followed. Too many "Apostles in the boat" when the storms come and then cry "Jesus Jesus, save me", when he specifically told you, that same power was in you, if you would just get off your lazy bum and tell the storm to stop or get out of the boat! Instead, the Ism (science | religion) rely on Memorex Texts, artifacts, observation, laboratory tests, while they step over each other to continue that text, find those artifacts, buy-sell them or use them to kill each other.
  
  Faith is void of necessity. The Law was all about necessity. Needing to do right-wrong; Faith doesn't need, it just does, no strings, no conditions, no fear, no judgment.
  
  Really? Show me your fruit -not the plastic kind either. Show me YOUR testimony --not the one you keep stealing from him who actually did the work.
  
  Thanks
  James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Twenty One, you are falling short of the Spirit Of God, and chooses not to seek the full truth.
  You don't have to have faith in anything, but faith is objective. Must be something that have faith in...
  
  Your thinking falls into the category of secular humanism where one speaks only of "how to live the best life, and how to do it more efficiently." Us Christians are seeking the Kingdom Of God.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are so many contradictions in your words here, it`s amazing.
  First one: to which you now say:
  
  Long awkward Pause.......{?}
  
  Ah, yet another Pharisee...
  Again, I request: show me your fruit --even the Pauline mentions of the fruit-- rather than attempt to (as usual Christian push-pull pseudo logos) condemn or judge me based on something you only read in books or was fed into those itchy little ears by charismatic preachers.
  
  Thanks
  James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow Twenty One, you are missing the main point, receiving God's Holy Spirit. You have all Christians bunched together when in essence, a personal relationship with God is demanded, a personal commitment. Your discourse reflecting your belief is more political than a Faith...think!
  I repeat: a famed Pyschologist (Toles?) wrote that all communication is about what is the best way to live your life, and how to do it more efficiently.
  You are riding a dying horse. Jesus is the One who always rises again.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..and sadly, you don't know that Spirit and are not the first person to tell me that I don't have it. Ironically, after my recommendation for a position by the assistant senior pastor, a week later was told by him, I didn't have the Spirit. Why? Because I challenged them all --a crowd of nearly 10,000-- that not one had any true fruit of Faith nor Eternal Life in them. They were Memorex Recordings.
  
  ...Of course to rise "again and again" means someone keeps crucifying him over and over. Hmm, sounds like Religion to me.
  See, the New Age Jews -aka Christians- (like all religions) don't want the blood on their hands, so they pass it on to hired thugs --in the Jews case it was Rome, in Christians case it is either the nonbeliever or the invisible Satan.
  
  Care to tell me the difference between a Hebrew (meaning of the true Israel not the city-state) and a Jew?
  
  ...yet another person who doesn't understand the text, yet is ever constantly reading the "instruction manual" on "How To Build An Ark For Dummies" while the floods come and wipe them out. In Noah's defense, at least he built one. In Peter's defense, at least he tried --by getting out of the Boat; In Abrams defense, he was the son of a very wealthy clan, that built some of the first cities, and he was willing to go the distance in his non-salvation-power faith, at the time.
  
  ...What's worse is this "spirit" gives you "a word" and you run to "a book" to see what that "word" means -- because the Pentecostal Plastic Fruit guy next to you is babbling in some incoherent mumbo-jumbo, that not even "God" himself can interpret -- and the preacher who is smiling under the fluorescent lights, offhandedly makes a comment about your Sunday Roast becoming a "burnt offering" because "glory t`god, the holy ghost is upon him and he too got a word and runs to the book".
  
  ...Worse Than Worse: (are you sitting down), you worship a book, a man [who specifically commanded --not asked-- not to worship him], an Idea of Eternal Life, yet won't for just one whole day each week sit and listen to Creator. Just listen, no asking, no yapping, no whining, no crying, no nothing. Just one on one. You worship yourselves and are quick to steal His testimony because it is easier to let someone do the labor so you can self-righteously reap the benefits.
  
  James.
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nice post
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Kimber ! {{ waving }}
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ''''''""""""""""""""""{peeing} well I had to go geez """" oops there OK
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Plastic fruit. That's insightful.
  
  This evening I've been reading some hubs of people I follow and sad to say, there as in forumland, is so much of just trotting out of church indoctrination, and little personal study.
  
  Memorex...that's another good one.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You lost me at "the bible states"
  What the bible states has been altered beyond recognition, multi versioned and were not original to begin with. There is little agreement amongst religionists as to "what the bible states" it seems to depend on which church did the indoctrinating.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  earnestshub, the dead sea scrolls proved that the precepts are accurately consistent to the point that they are virtually identical to this present dialogue.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct. The bible is about 95% accurate to what is written in the dead sea scrolls (of the books that match of course) But there were many more scrolls found, more than what is contained in the bible... Various Mythology (old world religions) stories from around the world are about 90-95% accurate with the original text as well (depending on the translation)...At least those texts found that didn't get destroyed (to make sure christian beliefs could take over). And since the Greek Pagan Beliefs (Mythology) was around and written about before the Christian Beliefs (Mythology), we should follow the newer of the two mythologies?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The question is; do you have the original Word authored by the Creator-God revealed on Jesus? You don't have it, for sure.
  
  The other question is; do you have anything authored by Jesus himself? You don't have it, for sure.
  
  If you don't have the original; you cannot compare the translations with the dead sea scrolls and decide for the accuracy in perecentages.
  
  Bible is a dead book; cannot be revived by tricks of the Christians. Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in India; he cannot come again, in person literally.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, you would be lying if you claimed to have the original word of Muhammad.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We do have the original Word authored by the Creator-God Allah YHWH and revealed on the heart of Muhammad, in the original Arabic language, without the change of a dot.
  
  It is also translated in many languages of the world but it is customary to give the original text in Arabic with side by side translation of the same; so that one could compare it with the original and find out the mistakes in the translation.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you do not have the original word of Muhammad, that is a lie. Those words were written down by others and changed over time just like many other scriptures.
  
  More lies, there is nothing wrong with the translations.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Paar, Seriously, you act as though I am defending something here. Here is what I know:
  
  God/Jesus/Allah/Muhammad, None of those people real or not wrote anything down on paper/stone/papyrus. Every single word written that is supposed to be spoken or written by them, has been written, by either a scribe from when it was spoken, or by a poet/author from memory or second hand accounts.
  
  You believe in your faith, I have a few questions for you. Muhammad taught the Arabic pagans that Allah was the one true god. How come he never had to explain who Allah was? Because Allah was already one of the gods that was worshipped by the arabic pagans. Muhammed was kicked out of Mecca, because the rulers thought he was inciting rebellion against the rulers with his teachings. The only thing that save his life was the fact that his uncle (If memory serves)was a respected member within the ruling political party. While Muhammed was in Medina, he continued to teach his "revealed religion" and gained followers (His wife was his first follower). With those followers he convinced them that Mecca was the sacred city of Allah and that those who lived there was in violation of Allah's teachings because they still followed the pagan beliefs. And he forcibly took the city back. He originally taught that men and women were equal. And took counsel from his wives on many occasions. He was born around 670CE and didn't start receiving his visions of Gabriel until 710CE. He continued to receive and share these visions for the next 23 years. The first written copies of the Qu'ran was written by multiple followers from the memory some time after his death.
  
  All religions follow a similar path in history. And all of the "sacred books" were written by someone other than the person "speaking" and then they are claimed to be the un-arguable truth of the word of god.
  
  Muhammed was illiterate..(couldn't read or write) so how did he write anything, or for that matter, verify that what he said was actually what was written.
  
  Jesus never wrote anything during his ministeries.
  God/Allah didn't write anything...Spirits can't write, well except on foggy mirrors.
  
  Scribes wrote everything...and As you have said...Scribes are sinners and get things wrong or put their own flair on the words written.
  
  And I mean no disrespect by anything I have posted. I am just stating my opinions and the facts as listed by historical documents.
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  thebrucebeatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And yet the Dead Sea Scrolls are not original autographs, either, so his point stands.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed.
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Earnest. You do make a very valid point. There is much disagreement on what the bible states and one's interpretation very much depends on the flavour of the church one has attended. It was ever thus since the church invented it's doctrines and creeds and discouraged self study.
  
  It is only through self study of the bible that one has any chance of understanding it. Trouble is much of the church just sits there soaking up the cabling from the front or spooning up what is vomited from God telly.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many of the TV evangelists would not pass a sanity test, such as Hinns and the other loonies who mislead the masses for money. Not small money either.
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Andrew0208posted 13 years ago
"Bible is a dead book" is your own opinion, a few others and not all. It's only dead to people who don't understand nor believe the Scriptures. And it's never a news. You can only explain what know very well. The Scriptures are Life and Spirit far beyond the letters, the concepts of self, science, and religion .

It is a faith walk!
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very well stated.
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skyfireposted 13 years ago
Rational conversation from your side? give me a break. By the way you support nuking civilians to end the war huh ? That sounds rational.

So going by that US has no right to foul cry when their puppet terrorist organizations in afghan/pakistan fights back to end US aggression don't ya think ? LOL.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are definitely a little spitfire, aren't you? I'm not saying there weren't atrocities all around. But, what is it they say? War is hell? Who invented that particular hell? I think we could all say we wish it hadn't happened, but it did. This ridiculous notion that all the ills of the world should be lain at the feet of one is a position I won't support.
  
  As to the problem in the Middle East. I do believe that first world powers fiddle around in other people's business way more than they should. I don't support it. I don't support troops in Iraq or Afghanistan.
  
  What I do support is a united effort within this country to find a way to free ourselves from fossil fuels and to share this technology with the world at large. Once this is accomplished the money train will leave the station and the Middle East can languish in the poverty their type of religious mentality tends to create. If they ever decide to play nicely, then sure we can all play together, but I don't support playing with them right now.
  
  I am, and have always been, of the opinion that the United States lost any moral high ground it might have had when it stepped away from its isolationist stance and let corporations begin to dictate policy. But, no one in this conflict has a moral high ground. In my opinion.
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  skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And someone was talking about not being sarcastic and always appearing polite few posts back. What happened to that smiley ? failed to spit out of curiosity ?
  
  Thank you. If this is your stance then i see no point in arguing with you.
  
  tsk tsk.
  
  You mean to support your country by declaring those middle east countries as terrorist zones ? or mass converting them to Christianity by sending priest parasites ? looks like you contradicted your own words in previous paragraph. You do support your country's stand for dominance and religion conversion just for the sake of natural resource. Hell, US residents are in no way unsupportable stance and have backed up historical evidence in this thread. I rest my case. Thanks for spiting the truth.
  
  Countries who are not taking part in bombing are in much higher ground because they never created that problem to begin with. It's the first world countries did with excuse of religion or so-called third world mentality/poverty reduction thinking by planting terrorism for the sake of natural resources/market.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are right. Conversing with you is pointless. I can't respond to irrational posts full of fallacies purposely included.
  
  I hope someday you decide to use facts to form an opinion. This type of bias is pointless and, quite frankly, laughable. But, to be polite, I'll stick to the smiley face.
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olgakhumloposted 13 years ago
The Bible is a 'Living Book'.
The word of God is a seed.It germinates and bringeth forth life
When it falls on the good ground.
It gets choked when it falls among the thorns-the snares of this
world;
It withers away by the heat of the sun- the troubles of this life.
It is carried away, by the birds of the air -by Satan when a man
does not understand it.
Down through the centuries it has given life to Christians,who are
added to the Church,beginning from 12 disciples, and the first
Church at Antioch.
WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR LET HIM HEAR.(MATTHEW 13:3-10)
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN. I love it.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen. Very insightful.
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katenka_laloposted 13 years ago
Latin is a dead language for you if you don't speak it. Similarly, the Bible is a dead book for you if you don't read it. Any book you read will give you something that you were looking for, no matter how small or big it is, something that only you will understand and appreciate.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Once you come into full knowledge of the Spirit, you know that the Book exists inside of you, in it's entirety. That is the true living bible...you.
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  thebrucebeatposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Clearly the most creative explanation for a Christian being ignorant of what resides in the holy book I've ever read.
  Well done!
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Katenka, your comment is clear as day to me, and a sunny one at that.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Katenka, hi 5!
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wilmiers77posted 13 years ago
paar, the bible has wisdom to the max. It is for YOU to do the reasoning; that's why God gave us a mind with free will. All discourse in the bible doesn't argue with subordinates because God is the one and only Absolute Power. Would you argue with first graders about what's right? Wisdom is respecting God and seeking His Will.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Faith in Jesus being god or son of god is not needed; and Jesus was not a god or son of god; he did not die on the cross and never resurrected from the dead; never ascended to skies; Jesus cannot save anybody from their sins.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here are my answers to your last post, Paar...
  
  Faith in Jesus being god or son of god is not needed;
  > It is needed and it is wonderful to have such faith
  
  Jesus was not a god or son of god;
  
  >Jesus Christ, was the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
  
  He did not die on the cross and never resurrected from the dead; never ascended to skies
  
  >For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again
  in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven
  and is seated on the right hand of the Father.
  
  Jesus cannot save anybody from their sins.
  
  >I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
  
  Now Paar, how can we prove the accuracy of our different views? Why not just state what you believe to be true, explain the value and repercussions of your faith for mankind, and stop trying to attack the 'truth' of other faiths since the nature of faith itself does not lend itself to such critiques?
  
  Do you think that people will laugh if you were to write post after post on your beliefs? Or do you think that it is of more value to knock Christianity than to celebrate your own faith?
  
  Lets pretend that Christianity never existed... no start telling us why we should follow your faith. Wouldn't that be more productive... or at least, less repetitive
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the fact that we are all debating about the bible, so long after it was written, and we all have something to say about, it,negative or positive... speaks volumes. Imagine what the world would be like if we could all unite in one thought, and what we could all in fact accomplish. It seems like a pipe dream, but it is quite a powerful thought, instead of working against each other, all coming together for the good of everyone, and everything. I have just been reading all the post on this thread...... Makes interesting reading.
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  olgakhumloposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible is a book of History and prophesies,all of which have been fulfilled in Christ, and will be fulfilled when Christ comes back, with the saints to reign for One Thousand years on this Earth.
  It is for those who can read and understand.
  There is still another choice, for those who cannot read , the visit to Jerusalem- which echoes that 'JESUS DIED and ROSE AGAIN'.
  If that doesn't suffice too,then I'd pray God that He would keep you alive to hear the final Gospel by the Angel himself, recorded in Revelation 14:7.
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
and something not to forget, wilmiers77, 99.9% of those of Faith --including Immanu El, didn't have a book to go by. They didn't have a church, a pastor, a bible school --and certainly not a Revised Edition Circa 14th Century.

Something to consider...

James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did I miss something? "not having a book to go by...ect.": the last figures that I heard was 80% plus of American believe in God, and a much high percentage have bibles in their homes. 99% without?
  Twenty One, what are you saying? Come again.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am merely reiterating a simple observation:
  the 99% of "christians" today are realistically nothing but sensation seekers, supporting the profit of Dove Press or another publishing house and men who are void of any spirit --especially The Spirit. True people of faith need no book to assist them in understanding the Creator, and certainly do not require references in the book to do the actual word which is the entire manifest universe.
  
  Just because someone can quote the book, doesn't mean they know the author. Those 80% of Americans believe more in Neil Gaiman's American Gods than the God they claim to love and worship. In fact, they spend nearly all their time with the former Gods and not the later.
  
  My point is this: this book called bible, the buildings called revival houses or cathedrals may look pretty but have absolutely no thing and nothing to do with Creators desire for mankind. The are objects of humanism --the same humanism that you reference as inhumaine. The humanism that makes bombs, medicine, fatwa, the Crusades and is justified by use --because humans lack even a milligram of faith. Because if humanism had an ounce of compassion or truth, we would not be having this conversation.
  
  James.
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TOD,
  Sensation seekers. Yes I've heard this many times otherwise call 'God Seekers' like they think they are some kind of David model. All the time looking for the latest revival meeting somewhere led by someone who has the anointing who calls down the Spirit to touch the congregation. What did Jesus call them? A perverse and adulterous generation always seeking after signs.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. From the massive 10k Lakewood type Arenas, to the little "Church in the Wildwoods", the level of sensationalism (coupled with capitalism in the West) and relying on a book as the "sole source", is off the charts. Sadly, the entire point has been lost in the trenches of a war called humanism.
  
  James.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Twenty One, I must bring this point into consideration: the more massive the citizenry become, like 300 million, the more there is a necessity for existentialistic thinking in order to vent and contain hostilities and give hope; there must be a vision for pacification and feeling secure by the masses. About any group can be critized, but does the good out weight the bad. another thing, your replacement, considering the transition struggle, may not come into fruition as you first planned ideally.
  Christianity is a lifestyle, a personal relationship with God firstly. Most all of us Christians are really inspiring Christians in development.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do they go to a Church? Hardly many
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optimus grimlockposted 13 years ago
what????? they just shocked it after giving it mouth to mouth for 5 minutes!
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Joy56posted 13 years ago
ha ha ha .... I have skated past this thread, as i hate to be drawn into arguments, however as i am quoted in the first post... I will just let you know how i feel.

The bible is alive, and is powerful

We are living through prophesies that were written down in the bible long ago.

As a wanna be writer, i love reading the bible, it is a wonderful piece of literature.

There are 66 small books that make up the bible, the theme of the kingdom, god promised to us, and asked us to pray for in the lords prayer, runs through it.

I put my trust in the god of the bible.

In my religion we do not go to war, we are conscience objectors.

We obey laws of the land ...... we pay our taxes.

We wait for god, in his time to bring peace, man does not have the power to rule over man, they are not good at it..... they try..... Men or women.

I will not be arguing with anyone about this, i hate getting banned, when i upset people, so i will go peacefully....... Brenda.
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  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Joy56, you gave me joy with your comments.
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  why thankyou wilmiers77 .........
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
Wil,
I do thoroughly respect humanism's aloofness, I really do. If it didn't know better, I would probably have other feelings toward it. I do have a measure of empathy toward both sides of the Ism (religion --pro and con || science --pro and still uncertain). Neither applies to faith. It only applies to itself, to its condition -- humanism. Think about that, carefully.
Even if the masses reached 100 billion or 1,000, the root of humanism would never change. So, a transition is not possible using the methods both sides do. A complete abandon of self is required. My honest and earnest recommendation-- should you consider the Work in-context -- no matter how small or large your group, no matter how socially accepted or not you might be, close the books, walk away from the microphone, take a refreshing dip to wash off the ash of mourning the End of Days ideology, eat a great meal, put on a new "tunic" and then spend a complete 24 hour solid one-on-one session with Creator. No asking for anything or pretending, by reciting words in your head (subjective recall). Just listen, be truly of one heart & mind and see what happens. The results just might surprise you --the simplicity that yields astounding relevations.

James.
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Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago
FreeThoughtist, Thank you for your tremendous reply. It is evident that we think differently. I might add that we both think independantly, or adopt notions each as we may.
When you speak of the paradigm being fragile, I agree, and I would also like to tell of a thought that I have come across and considered lately: When we were born, we were essentially independant thinkers, absorbing our surroundings (including personal thoughts as they arose) and making determinations on the fly, and subsequently testing these notions as to their their veracity, as we were able. So, as the story goes ... we, being independant thinkers, begin as being neutral in our stance, if you will. We then begin to receive ideas from three sources: Ourserlves (but since we are so young, we only have our immediate concerns to occupy our minds), Good Spirits, And Evil Spirits. (I'm serious, think about your transient thoughts - where do they come from - from external sources, which includes spirits, and physical stimulations, or do they just come willy nilly, randomly from nothingness?) Then, when we consider (inately, as a child can do) our direction, or choice of thought we choose to discard, and the thought we adopt. At that moment of adopting a choice, we are no longer neutral. Subsequent change can only come from the opposite source (i.e. good or evil). The physical stimuli we experience gets filtered through our adopted preference, stance, or position.
There is also a wise Ancient Upanisheds philosophical question: "At whose behest does the mind think?".
These are the types of things which I presently consider, deeply; for I do believe that every good inspiration (notwithstanding human survival stimulation) comes from God, and every malicious inspiration comes from the great deciever, Satan; for there is opposition in all things.
Other than that, I thank you for your time, and look forward to further intelligent discussion with you. I also have no desire to pick apart everything you or anybody else says. If I have done that in the past, it shows a pettyness on my part which I shall refrain from.
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  my sister is studying, body talk, and has been telling me about some of the things you mention above Timothy.... food for thought for sure.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Bible is a dead book; it does not provide claims and reasons on the issues confronting humanity.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where have you been hiding all these years?
  
  Oh, yes, Islam has the answer fo humanity, right?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think Bible of itself provides rational response to the comtemporary issues of the humanity.
  
  It does not.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You should read it sometime.
  You might find it otherwise.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is, just like the quoran.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Islamic propaganda machine never stops in it's relentless pursuit of conflict.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bible does not contain Word Revealed from the Creator-God who is the source of life; had it contained that and its attributes it would have not died; without Word from the Creator-God , Bible is a dead book.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bull Puckey
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, so crank up your Islamic propaganda machine and tell us how dead the bible is and how wonderful and alive the Quran.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Jesus is and must be the role Model of Christendom; his teachings based on the Word Revealed must be followed by them.

Bible is not authored by the Creator-God; it is not even authored by Jesus; so it has no life in it.

Bible is a dead book.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bury it alongside the quoran then!
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  FreeThoughtistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed!
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Watch out Earnest, you don't want a Fatwa on your head!!!
  reply report

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