Religion destroying humanity!

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Cagsilposted 13 years ago
Hey Religious folk,

What is with you people? Can YOU not understand that your religion, as YOU claim it to be, a personal relationship with whatever god you worship, does NOT have a place in other people's life?

Seriously? What part of live your life and let other people live their life, do you seriously NOT understand?

You claim a personal relationship with a god, then by all accounts keep your relationship with it personal and OUT of other people's life.

You are INFRINGING upon their rights to live their life how they see fit, regardless of whether or not, you agree. It isn't your damn place.

Learn your role in this world and stay out of other people's life.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tell that to all the police Officers, military force, Judges, lawmakers, and all authority figures in the world, why don't you? Then maybe they'll let you alone to go and live your life totally however you see fit, no laws, no right and wrong, no responsibility, no repercussions for anything you might do. Reckon?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll tell anyone who is willing to listen. But, the point is to keep religion out of politics, which needs to be done, so that those people you mentioned, can do it.
  What a ridiculous thing to say.
  
  You actually think I need a other people to tell me how to live my life...you seriously think I need laws to keep from doing things? You think I don't know right from wrong?
  
  You seriously think I'm not a responsible person? No repercussions?
  
  Boy do you not know anything about life. Responsibility comes with living. Repercussions/consequences always come from actions, as does a reaction.
  
  Your entire post is ridiculous.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you suggesting that religion carries the same authority over non believers that elected and hired servants creating and enforces laws have? Can't say I would agree with that one...
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. Not saying religion does. Because there are many different religions, some of them unGodly.
  Yes I'm saying that the laws of God Himself carries the authority, period. Yes, over Believers and nonbelievers.
  
  I've been told a few times even by other Christians (at least they claim to be Christians) that we can't expect secular authorities to do what's right. I disagree. The conscience is innate; a God-given trait. And it isn't relative to each individual; it's the same in each individual. Whether or not a person listens to their conscience is a different story. Corruption is relative, a choice.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Possum dropping Brenda!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  horse doo, earnest.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please Brenda!
  Don't with the Horse doo!
  
  That's just brutal!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ostrich feathers!
  
  (is that better?)
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Australian remember Brenda.
  
  Could we negotiate this to Emu feathers?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh okay.
  Mashed taters!?
  haha
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We call em spuds in the local vernacular.
  These religious threads are full of good cross cultural datum.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have carp down there? It's hard to be full of carp in a place that has none.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, watch it there! I'm from Idaho - the spud state - and you are not showing proper reverence to that noble vegetable.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I buy Idaho taters usually. I reverence them in many ways! ...frying, boiling, baking, iced/raw.........
  Yum
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We import your spuds all the way down under. Very nice spuds the are too!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What is your beer/spud ratio at breakfast?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One spud needs 2 beers to wash it down for breakfast, and I enjoy a couple of spuds at least.
  
  Lunch is different. We have beer and spuds, so we have the beer first cos the sun is over the yard-arm.
  
  Dinner is different again with spuds made into chips and salted, which changes the ratio again, and then we just have a few beers.
  
  *****Nasty news of the day*********
  
  We just sold Fosters to the South Africans!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  No kiddin me oz mates! Another great oz icon bites the dust!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nooooooooooooooooooo
  
  You should strike back by stealing their apartheid.
  
  That'll show'em.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  earnest if S.A win the RWC ,you know Im gonna really curse Fosters now!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And that's my point. You claim it's a personal relationship, yet stretch over everyone's life. Keep it in your life if you choose, but under no circumstances are you to invade other people's life with it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's both a personal relationship and a God/mankind relationship.
  
  Society isn't John Lennon's imaginary utopian free-for-all. Nor is it the Old West pre-law. Mankind has to have law and order.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It has laws. What it doesn't need is a bunch religious tripe interfering with living.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, it is not. There is no God/mankind relationship - there is only the imagined relationship you have with yourself but subscribe to God.
  
  Thus speaks the non-believer and there is no way you will ever convince them that your imagined relationship has any authority over them. Your God has no authority whatsoever that you don't give Him, and the non-believer will not give that authority to Him.
  
  Therein lies the problem. You insist that you, through God, have the right to enforce or promote His authority. You do not, and your attempts only anger those that don't accept it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Eh. No. I insist that mankind has the responsibility to promote and enforce God's authority. Some drop the ball on that. But that doesn't make it any less serious.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, you infringe upon the rights of others doing it. So much for being an American.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But only you, and others that agree with you, know what God wants.
  
  Mankind has no responsibility to promote or enforce an imaginary creatures authority. That you claim that creature is NOT imaginary does not make it so, nor does it give anyone at all the right to make the claim that everyone must promote that authority.
  
  When you insist that mankind has the responsibility to promote that authority the unspoken part is that YOU will define what that authority and rules consist of. It won't work until you are also willing to give everyone else the same opportunity; to define the rules and authority you must live under. If those rules violate your own sense of what is right and wrong, too bad. This is, after all, what you are insisting that others must do.
  
  It is what this thread is about; that the religious, and only the religious, may determine what is right and wrong. That everyone that disagrees is wrong in their belief and must change that belief.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are right, mankind need god's authority. Why? The majority in the world are religious and without god, they say, they have no morality or ethics. So if the religion didn't tell them, not to do bad things, they would do all that is unspeakable.[jail statistics say majority are believers, so even with god if they do atrocities, i can't imagine what they would do with out god.]
  The minority of atheists are responsible people, who take personal responsibility, but they are just that - a minority, so mankind need god.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Untrue.
  Actually, they are referring to other people not themselves, would have no morality or ethics. They don't look in the mirror and say they themselves would have no morality or ethics, because they would.
  A prime example what religion does. There's enough in prisons to prove religion is dangerous.
  Actually, humankind has no need for a god or to believe in one. It's a lie sold to the general masses.
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  the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just because man kind "needs" authority, does not guarentee that said authority exists.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But Brenda. god probably does not exist. Things that do not exist can not have any authority. You were doing better relying on the fact that all humans have a conscience.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Gravity works on all of us whether or not we like it. Gravity benefits each of us daily. The difference between gravity and God is you have a choice about following God, but not about gravity. Forums and Hubs are completely under your control. To tell others they can't write about religion (i.e. infringing on your personal liberties) is harsh.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that is true.
  This is again true.
  And, what's your point?
  Forums are not completely under control of the individual, at least not entirely.
  It's not that and you missed the point.
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You must be correct. I missed the point
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People who desire to control what others speak about ,or suggest they are ignorant only highlight their own insecurities.
  
  It doesnt bother me that someone doesnt share my faith ,but it sure bugs the hell outta some others if I have one
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That completely depends on many more factors than apparently you have insight into.
  Then don't include others into your belief, by telling them that they will have some sort of judgment to answer to, when it's your belief for your life and has no relevance on other people.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you about conscience being a trait of all humans but not about it being god given. Either way if we agree on the facts why worry about the interpretation of them?
  
  Though I do not agree with much you say, Brenda, I commend you on that bit of insight.
  
  Secular society protects us all from each other no matter what our beliefs or lack of. Religion of all kinds have to be kept out of politics for the good of all. And yes, politicians are often religious people. But if we understand that the human has a conscience no matter what religion they are from, and politicians agree to leave the religion at the door, we can all get along.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What we can "reckon" from your post is that you believe Christians ARE the authorities over the rest of us, that you are so morally superior to us, we must do exactly as you say.
  
  We would like to live our lives without Christianity deciding what's best for us, due to the fact they ignore responsibility for their actions, that their God is above police officers, military forces, judges, lawmakers and all other authority figures in the world.
  
  What Christians don't understand is that our morals and ethics would have us live our lives in peace helping one another without the need for their superiority complexes mucking everything up.
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  yetmostposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  amen
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A good thought Cags!
  
  I don't want anyone telling me an invisible entity is running my life no matter how much someone else's fairy myth may demand it.
  
  Mankind goes down a lot of paths, some of them are plainly wrong!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do not believe freedom of speech is that selective Cags ,least not where I come from.
  
  I am just as free as the next person to speak of whatever I want too ,and you are of course free to not listen
  
  Pretty easy really.
  
  Oh hey where do you get off telling people what they can speak about !
  
  Tad arrogant I must say.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, freedom of speech is actually selective. You cannot do or say certain things and there's a limit to it. It's not unlimited.
  Actually, this statement is a misconception. Sounds are heard regardless of whether or not, you want to hear them. So, this statement is uninformed as per usual.
  Actually, you apparently don't know. Which is now more than obvious.
  It's not about speaking. It's about INTERFERING in other people's life.
  Yes, you are.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Writing in a forum is interfering?
  
  I think you need to put a little more thought into your posts.
  
  But alas ,I think YOU think you already did
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey EK, go learn what actions are would you? Damn woman.
  
  All actions have consequence and reactions. Your actions speak loudly.
  
  Remember, your god is your god. It's in your life and it's not YOUR place to tell others that YOUR god is going to pass judgment on them, because they refuse to believe in YOUR god.
  
  It's a personal relationship you claim you have, then make sure you keep it about your life and OUT of other people's life.
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  yetmostposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  amen
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Calm down Cags ,you are beginning to sound like a caveman.
  
  You seriously need to get off your high horse,
  
  and observe the real world a bit more
  
  I seem to remember you going to great pains to educated and notify anyone who would read about the perils of 'being ignorant'.
  
  To quote from the Bible "Take the log from your own eye,before trying to remove a speck from your brothers"
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, YOU are distracting, just to please yourself. This IS NOT about me, get it straight would you. Stop trying to make it about me.
  EK, everyone is ignorant to a degree. So what's your point?
  I've done that, because I'm not speaking from a ego mentality. I'm speaking for a larger picture view, which apparently you cannot seem to understand. Again, it's NOT about ME. Got it?
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  the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey, you know whats arrogant, going around telling people that they are wrong, and that what you believe is the absolute truth. id say thats more arrogant than telling someone not to shove their beliefs down your throat.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey dude I think you would be a little less angry if you spend some time praying to Jesus, and going to church. Just try it, I know your creator will give you many blessings for exercising a little faith.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Untrue. I was born and raised Catholic. So please. And, I'm not actually angry, but I do detest people invading other people's life.
  My creator? Is dead. My father is my creator and to suggest anything else is part and parcel of the psychosis known as religion.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually your creator is alive and well in Heaven. it's just a fact, no compulsion. and it comes off a tad angry when you start off a thread by cussing out a group of honest god loving people.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Conjecture you cannot prove. Nice to see you're intellectually dishonest with yourself.
  Not fact. But nice try.
  Honest? I've yet to meet an honest religious person, because it's not possible for them to be honest with me, when I know they are not being honest with themselves. How do I know? Because, they live in a fantasy world and I live and understand reality, which defies fantasy.
  
  Reality- real.
  Fantasy- not real.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cags, you know Jesus loves you............
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm of the understanding that I know more about Jesus than the average religious person. The fact that Jesus is dead also, his love is non-existent, like the god of your imagination.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How would you know this? Because you attribute the positives in your life to God? I assure you that we all get "blessings" whether we believe or not.
  
  About the only thing believers get that non-believers don't is the comradeship of belonging and that is freely available. Join a chess club if that's the kind think you like, or learn to square dance. There's something for everyone out there.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you would far more intelligent if you spent less time praying to Jesus and going to Church. Just try it.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You would "Be" far more intelligent. Awkward sentence.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are lit up like a light bulb, what flipped your switch and made you decide to vent like this? Who is infringing upon whose rights? It is not always a Christians place to infringe nor is it the place of someone who does not believe to infringe upon a Christians. My personal place in the World is to be me, so are you talking about everyone or a chosen few? When someone asks about our religious preference we answer, many of us answer what our beliefs our.
  
  So here is my take Christians stand on one side (me and others) Atheists stand on the other. mmmmmm...... sounds ridiculous when all of us can just get along and share our thoughts without argument. I have friends who believe and who do not believe so I could not imagine not sharing knowledge.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know people who are religious AEvans and constantly am told that a god will hold judgment over me, after I die.
  
  Religious beliefs are just that, beliefs. You want to believe, then do so, but under no circumstance are your beliefs to be part of my life or my understanding of my life.
  
  Religious people are constantly telling other people that ONE ALMIGHTY GOD controls everything. It's sad and it's pathetic, and it's pure fantasy.
  
  Religious people over step their authority of living in this world, when they bring their beliefs down upon other people, as if it's real and will have some effect or affect on that person's life. It's an infringement upon my rights as an individual and that's what this thread is about. If you don't do that, then good for you, then you don't.
  
  But, I am sick and tired of being told by the holiest of holy religious people on these forums that I will be judged by their fantasy/belief in a god. It's just wrong to do it and many people FAIL to realize it.
  
  They want to rip apart other people's lives, either through spreading their belief as real or injecting their beliefs into laws. It's wrong.
  
  You want a prime example- look at Brenda Durham's earlier posts in this thread- she claims that "God's Laws" are higher than man-made laws and ALL PEOPLE will be imposed upon by her, because she has authority to do so. I'm sorry, that's BS.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  imposed upon her? She is not God that many of us believe in. What is bothersome is that there are many of us who would not impose our beliefs on others and not only do we fight with those who are persecuting the non-believers but we have to fight with those who say they do believe and are judging others. Its a battle field out here, but I do understand your feelings.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Impose upon others by Her! Sorry for the typo.
  Your right, she isn't the god that you believe in, but she seems to think that SHE has the authority to speak for god and that everyone should listen.
  Judging others? It's a fact of life that each person judges another person. It's human nature and cannot be avoided. To think that it could is beyond all comprehension of thought.
  I don't doubt that AEvans.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I find that the most outspoken non -religious person ,often sees shadows and demons where there are none,and 'righteously' proclaim they dont need God to exist.
  
  Nothing wrong with anyone believing that theory,but why get upset or condescending when another group chooses an opposing view?
  
  Unless of course vanity and ego stand in the way.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Making imaginary castles in the air is not something that get you respect, but on the other hand, if you are the only person doing it, you'll end up in a psychiatrist's cell.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True to.
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  iloveglee83posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would never impose my beliefs on others, but if asked what I believe in I would not hesitate to let it be known. I am not Christian, but I do see alittle about where he is coming from. I've had several people come up to me stating either that I was going to hell or that I better find god or I will be sorry. I just smile at them and tell them that I know who I am and where I am going and I dont need them to help me direct my life or my beliefs. They usually try to babble more bible verses at me or they just look at me shocked as I walk away. So I mean, I thin everyone is intitled to what they believe and that if someone trys to puke their religion down your throat then you just need to stand behind what you believe and walk away. They are the ones that are lost, they are the ones that feel the need to constantly convert people.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely said. But, wouldn't it be a nicer world if people didn't bother you in that manner? I mean seriously.....if people didn't go to the extent to tell you that, when you already know who you are and what direction your life is going? Those who do that are causing conflict, yet don't see it.
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  iloveglee83posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point, I guess I just dont let it cause conflict with me. If they want to make a fool of themselves then more power to them, but I just brush them off. I guess if they want to cause confilct then that makes them look stupid becuase it goes against their golden rule.
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  Abundant old soulposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I get what you are saying. The big deal is forcing people. I only know my god. My god is love and accepting and forgiving. Kind of like father in the good sense of the word.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ironic Cagsil, as YOU start your topic telling US why WE are wrong!
  
  Just why did YOU choose to put his topic up, if not to cause contention and strife?
  
  You surely did not expect that all believers were going to say " Sorry Massa Raymond, we didn't mean to talk out of turn and offend you"
  
  I mean you really did not think that would happen?
  
  .... or did you!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm talking about actions. Are you that hard up to make this about me?
  To make people aware of their actions. Why else? You see contention and strife, because that's what you want to see.
  Get real. Those who actually understand Jesus' teachings about love and compassion would know what I say it truth.
  I expected the response I received, because most other people, like yourself, cannot see beyond themselves long enough to see truth when it is actually stated.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey antiReligious folk,
  
  What is with you people? Can YOU not understand that your antireligion, as YOU claim it to be, a personal relationship with nothing does NOT have a place in other people's life?
  
  Seriously? What part of live your life and let other people live their life, do you seriously NOT understand?
  
  You claim a personal relationship with nothing then by all accounts keep your relationship with it personal and OUT of other people's life.
  
  You are INFRINGING upon their rights to live their life how they see fit, regardless of whether or not, you agree. It isn't your damn place.
  
  Learn your role in this world and stay out of other people's life.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Repair, get real. You know nothing of rights, but when you do learn something about them and the actions which are morally right and wrong, come back and then say something meaningful. Until, have a great day.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know everything of rights. I know that you would infringe upon my right to practice my religion if you could. I know that just by reading your hysterical rantings on just about everything. What you should keep in mind is that you are powerless to stop people from practicing their religion, I'm sure that you are aware of this and just like most powerless people it infuriates you. Oh well.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you don't.
  Actually, I wouldn't, so long as your practice doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.
  Oh really. I don't think you can rationally carry on a conversation with someone else, so I don't see how you could possibly understand anything other than yourself.
  Actually, I'm not powerless to stop people from practicing their religion. For the simple fact that I am not trying to. But, then again, you failed to see or understand that.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, you're powerless. Aggravates the hell out of you.
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  crystiffposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Powerless and as arrogant !! Because he's that way and "some people" wish to enlighten him he wants to take it out on all believers of god...
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found Repairguy's post very meaningful. And quite an appropriate response to the original post.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure you did Brenda. Everything, you do is for self serving reasons.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You say that last sentence like it's a true thang. Which it is not.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda appears to far from self serving ,in fact I perceieve a great deal of service to others in her writing and posts.
  
  What a strange thing for you to say Cags.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree and what a deligtful sense of humour he has-keep it up
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he does. I became a follower of his after seeing his bold (and right) posts. I love it when that happens.
  
  P.S. Eaglekiwi you're a sweet person. Thank you.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey you are welcome, but I am just speaking up for truth. You already walk the talk
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  OOOOO...aa lol, them is fighting words..ha thats it!
  
  I guess if we can't have different beliefs and values without respect and a measure of humilty ,then the only thing left is a good fight (verbage) etc...
  
  Mind wars.
  
  Personally Id rather be watchig the Rugby World Cup!
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pisean282311posted 13 years ago
In today world the statement is true...
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Emile Rposted 13 years ago
You're right. They are ruining things. The concept of an all powerful God worked well for ancient man. Uncivilized people needed the threat of divine retribution. Civilized society doesn't need a bunch of holier than thou types to attempt to push their phobias and neuroses on others. Their psychological problems are their own.
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  Joe Machoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But it is right to allow politicians to push their agenda on us? The state of people's psychological problems stem from the propaganda that we are subjected to on an everyday basis. How is this any different than people pushing religion? What really makes us different than the man before us, the fact that we can use toilet paper and iphones?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. Absolutely Not! Politicians should be doing things that are in the best interests of the people, yet the people continue to be manipulated by the distortion politicians continue to spread. Goes to show how gullible people truly are, which is why there's so many religious.
  I'll agree and include religious junk with it.
  Emile wasn't for religion. She was actually agreeing with my OP.
  What makes us different? Nothing makes us different than the next person. However, having said that, it is those who seem to think that they are specially put here and have the righteous attitude, which puts the on a mind-altering pedestal over others. It's absurd and ridiculous.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Secularists will always grouse about the fact that God is in control, believers will continue to point this out, if you think we are being offensive, complain to God when you see Him!
  
  ....if you see Him!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Control? Deluded much?
  
  If there's a god in control, then free will and choice doesn't exist.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No so, God ALLOWS us to make our own (wrong) choices.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You wouldn't know anything about a god. You've just convinced yourself, so you can feel better about yourself. Nothing more. Good show.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Har dee har har. If I honestly thought one of the religious zealots had an honest thought on the matter, I might be concerned. This yakking, and swearing it's the echo of the voice of a deity, doesn't mean it is. If there is a God, I'm ready, willing and more than able to listen to Him. Not lies about a make believe relationship; or attempts at piety that come off more like liberal Islam than a spiritual love of mankind.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My my, the natives are truly restless tonight, I hear the drums beating out their monotonous tones as they rally to kill the messengers who bring truth to their dark places.
  
  Off to bed now, before I get banned again, have fun children, and continue in your sweet (life without God) dreams.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You bring no truth.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and you bring nothing new to the table, ciao!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing new? Really? Exposing religion as being damaging isn't anything new, but increasing other people's awareness about it...IS.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhh! Wrapped up so much in your own ego that you cannot see that ego is the source of the problem (not religion, or science, or government, or anything else).
  
  Right, Cags. Kick the wrong dog. See if that really solves anything.
  
  In the meantime, protect your threatened ego. Someone might be pointing out how wrong you are on this subject. A bruised ego is a painful thing to behold.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are ridiculous. I know about the ego and I'm the last person you need to try to make claims about it. It's nothing to do with my ego and how many times are you going to bring up the same poor subject that you know little about. You come from a scientology background, yet cannot see beyond yourself, because you seem to think that "spirituality" is actually a real thing. Dense much? Or is just your ego preventing you for learning something new?
  Go learn the difference between truth and ego. All you are doing here is showing how little you've managed to learn, even though you've claim a huge background of researching. It appears as if you've not learned anything.
  Really? Someone isn't about to even make that claim. As I've said before, when I speak it's truth and it doesn't change. Remember, when you lie it's harder to keep all the lies straight, but when truth is said, it's so much easier to remember. Now, if you think you have a truth to bring forth, be my guest. I don't hide from myself, like you do(Ego). I am not afraid of myself, like you apparently are(Ego). I've searched my inner self and found what brought forth love. I know who I am and don't pretend to be something I am not. So, why don't you try being honest with yourself for once in your life....it might be a refreshing change.
  I'm sure it is, you should know a lot about it. As for me, I'm not in pain and my ego isn't bruised by the stupidity of most on this thread. My posts are not based on my ego, because a good many years ago I learned what was KEY to seeing beyond myself.....DO YOU Know The KEY To Do That? Probably not, considering your posts, your hubs and much of what you say comes directly from your ego. You talk about humility and that you try to make sure that your ego isn't shown....yet you don't apparently try hard enough. But, nice try.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's post such as yours that help me see that your type of christianity is ego driven. That, in and of itself, tells me fundamentalists know nothing of any god. They are simply attempting to push their opinions on others and using a god as an excuse to do it.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's called arrogance, perhaps coupled with a strong desire for social power over others.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's called boredom concerning a bunch of self appointed secular tag teams who waste their lives haunting the forums in order to attempt to retain their lack of belief, in order to continue to lead self pleasing lives whilst demanding that all opposition should be silenced.
  
  I care not one jot about ego, I know what I know and I will not be silenced by those who object to opposing opinions being aired.
  
  Ego is the enemy, I have no misconceptions about who I am and why I need Christ, and how thankful I am that Christ came to deal with OUR collective sin.
  
  I do feel sorrow that many will reject what He did for THEM.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not about silencing people. It's about keeping religion where it belongs. Out of the life of those who choose not to have it. You really don't get it, do you?
  Again, it's not about silencing you. Duh! And, it's obvious that you don't care about your own ego....good show....it's a prime example of you damaging others without realizing it.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well Cagsil, I would imagine that if you really wanted to keep religion out of your life, you would cease haunting the religious forums, or are you a machochist also?
  
  No I really do not get why someone who hates religion would spend so long in the religious section of a forum?
  
  Have you EVER seen me in the atheist sections? (do they exist?)
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Talk about a limited view. Boy do you not understand things nor do you understand your place in this world.
  I don't hate anything, but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference considering you cannot see beyond yourself. Good show on you.
  There's a reason for that and I'm sure it's not worthy of discussion.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you ARE a machochist.... OK, understood.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bad perception on your part, but not surprising coming from a religious person.
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  the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ummmm. you posted in a forum that clearly is against the shovage of beliefs on others, your kind of in athiest territory right now.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really, Pink? Atheist territory. Perhaps you didn't see the road signs:
  
  All Forums
  Religion and Philosophy
  Exploring Religious Options
  God and Views of God
  
  That's where this forum is located. Sounds like religious territory to me.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rather, you have a very gross misconception of who and what you are.
  
  Your misguided, myth based belief tells you that you are a child of God, designed and constructed to one day sit beside Him in heaven.
  
  In actuality you are a sack of chemicals that has come together through sheer chance and managed to grow into adulthood. Your ultimate destination is to cease to exist in any form.
  
  Your ego (that you say is your enemy) maintains the first explanation; it is far more pleasing and elevates you considerably from all the other sacks of chemicals on this insignificant planet. You are thus correct in that your ego is your enemy as it insists that your imagination has resulted in Truth with a capital T when if fact is has no connection to reality.
  
  You might want to work on that.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What a sad opinion you have of the wonder of Gods creation, but I guess if you have no relationship with God, you are probably correct, you may well just be a sack of chemicals, soon to disperse into the soil, never to taste eternity, or to spend it in regret that you rejected God.
  
  How sad.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What's sad is the beauty of the concept of a Creator is trivialized and drug through the mud by religious zealots. Instilling him with a two dimensional character whose primary goal is the slaughter of humanity. How sad that ego and perceived slights by society drive some to the need of creating such a loathsome character.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure how you got to that summation from what I said, and you know full well that my conceptual viewpoint about God is exceedingly more expansive than two dimensional, but I can see how the other 'sack of chemicals' analogy would lead one to wonder whether people had ANY concept of God.
  
  I have never held the view that Gods primary goal was the slaughter of humanity, indeed, it's just the opposite, Gods primary goal is the salvation of humanity, however judging from the sack of chemicals remark, humanity does not desire to be saved.
  
  So sad.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know your philosophy. That's why I posted what I did. If you step outside of yourself and look, you'd see it too.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Humanity doesn't need to be saved by a god or even believe in one to save itself from itself. And, the fact that you cannot see that shows how blind you are to any understanding of living life.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  .....and you are entitled to your opinion also,as my son would have said.... whatever!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the best you have for a response. Figures as much.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sad, perhaps, but reality often is. You can either take it as it happens or make up your own myth to make you feel better and not be sad.
  
  I prefer reality; you prefer to make up fairy tales that keep up the endorphin levels. Nothing new either way - some prefer to live in an imaginary world of their own making, some don't. Neither appreciates others pushing their perception of their "world" around unasked.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, having lived your way for 42 years, and Gods way for the last 18, all I can say is Gods way is better, but live however you want, disbelieve whatever you cannot understand and try to tell me something I have experienced daily as real is not, your choice.
  
  So sad.
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your are believing a book written by ancient barbarians, and some priests.
  Have you seen and talked to god to believe in "god"?
  If yo really have seen what others have not seen, then it is time for yo to see a psychiatrist, sad, but true.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you lived for 42 years in reality and then decided that you want to be happier than you were. Some people take drugs to fight depression, some make up their own version of reality by deciding that the same daily events experienced by everyone are due to actions by an invisible super-creature.
  
  Both are indeed choices; the problem comes when attempts are made to force that choice on everyone around. You would no more appreciate attempts to force LSD into your veins each day that the non-believer appreciates your attempts to force your imagined version of reality on them. Neither results in ones perception actually connecting to reality.
  
  Why then do believers continue to try to force everyone around them to use the "drug" of religion in a clear violation of their desires? Are they truly so arrogant and ego-centered as to think that they, and they alone, know Truth and have an obligation somehow to force it on everyone?
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People who make imaginary castles in the air and live in it are called psychotics. Sad, but true!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The worlds values (and fancy dancy clinical words) and Gods values ,have never ever been the same.
  
  Its not suprising that they would be in a forum.
  
  For example -God says Im redeemed ,the world (or yours) calls me pyscotic?
  
  Guess who I am going to beleive.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's quite the answer.
  
  First, God is not in control; only believers, basing that imagined "fact" on their own misguided belief system, will promote such a silly idea.
  
  Secondly, the secularist can complain to a (imaginary, non-existent creature) when they see it. Some consolation for being pushed around by the believers insisting that their particular brand of mythology is Right!
  
  And finally, a nice insinuation that the secularist will burn in Hell for eternity if they don't give control of their lives to the believer that KNOWS how everyone else should live.
  
  Well done. A perfect exhibition of exactly what the OP is talking about.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really, Emile? I agree that some religious types are pushing garbage, but I think all of the naysayers here are kicking the wrong dog.
  
  Religion is never the problem. The ills some of the atheists here blame on religion can also be found in non-religious circles.
  
  The real source of the problems is ego.
  
  The real reason for religion is spirituality and the re-awakening of the immortal true self within. Those religious nuts who lose sight of this do indeed do some nutty things.
  
  But again, don't kick the wrong dog.
  
  I know ego is not tangible and not easily "kicked." But it's just plain dumb to blame the wrong target. But ego likes to blame things, even if it is the wrong target.
  
  Can't you feel the sense of entitlement when I point this out? Doesn't it feel threatened by being called out as wrong and perhaps a bit dumb? That feeling... that's the real enemy. And if you give into it, you are being as evil as everything you condemn.
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Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago
And just for the record ,if anyone believes God/Religion has damaged humanity,take a look around ,listen to the news ,read the paper ,observe human nature in action...

Not a smart bunch of people are we (in general)

We love to steal ,rape,murder,war and kill if the statistics are anything to go by.

Humans.

Not God.

Time to own the problem ,instead of looking for a scapegoat IMO.
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  Joe Machoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Human nature is to be good. It's the pathetic religions of the world that are damaging things.
  Remember, you said it first. But, I would have to agree.
  Most of those who are in prisons for those exact crimes are religious. A much higher percentage.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Come on Cagsil, as the majority of folk have belief of some sort,obviously statistically the majority will be religious, coming to faith does not make one perfect, just aware of their imperfections.
  
  Now if you stated that the majority of prisoners are black, you would also be correct, but accused of racism, and that despite the fact that you would be illustrating the iniquity of the prison system rather than the necessarily more criminal element of black people.
  
  Just passing through!
  
  John
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aware of their imperfections? Really, it actually makes them blind to their own, because that's all they have to do is repent and be forgiven, while they continue to ruin other people's life.
  Noting like passing along distortion. Nice dishonest statement.
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of prisoners turn to religion when they are in prison. Partly this is because they have years ahead of them in a terrible hostile environment, and turning to God gives them an escape and something bigger than the walls that surround them to believe in. It is also used as a means to overcome the guilt some prisoners feel because of the crimes they have committed. And in some cases, prisoners turn to God, because it looks good to a parole board.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do so, because of the gullibility of others. People turn to religion as a scape-goat, so people will think that they have changed.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Incorrect as usual.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, it's not incorrect. You'd be wise to go check, before spouting off about something you know nothing about.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But I did check -so there MR quick to jump to conclusions.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  EK, try to use some logic?
  
  Most of the criminals in the world are not of a non-belief status, considering that they are in the minority to begin with, with the population of the world is mostly believers.
  
  Again, to think that the non-believers are doing all the damage is absurd. There are more religious people committing more crimes than there are non-religious people in the world.
  
  If you checked, then apparently you didn't check a whole lot, but a little enough to support your position. Good show on you. Your actions speaks volumes.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Where are those statistics?
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  911
  The crusades.
  The inquisition.
  Witch burning.
  Israel/Palestine
  The endless war between Islamic sects in the near east.
  Destruction of countless cultures by Christian missionaries dedicated to
  "saving" the evil natives.
  Forced rape and marriage of young girls in Gods name.
  Endless bigotry, hatred and murder of anyone different, such as Gays.
  Jonestown, Guyana
  Child molestation and rape by Catholic (and other) priests.
  Continual suppression of knowledge that contradicts biblical belief systems.
  
  I'm not real sure I can agree that God/religion has never done harm to humanity or humans.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All such horrors have happened, and are still happening in non-religious circumstances too. Perhaps we should eliminate humanity?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That might happen anyways, if things don't change.
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It may sound pessimistic, but I really do believe that the end of humanity would be the best thing that could happen to this world. It would certainly give the other animals a chance of survival. The human animal, is the cruelest and most barbaric that has ever walked the Earth. It is for this reason that I doubt God.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All I will say is that I disagree with the end of humanity being the solution.
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And yet you are a tiger, so are on the edge of extinction because of mankind.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The picture I use as an avatar is nothing to be concluded as a representation of me, as a person. I like the picture and now that you brought it up, I've changed it.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That does sound slightly pessimistic yes. "The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals.....and yet, what is this quintessence of dust!.."
  I want the world to be a better place because I love it and I love humankind, despite its gigantic fallibility.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No ,I have never said religion wasnt to blame for some dreadful crimes ,but rather the responsibilty should rest with the perpetrator.
  
  To be honest (my personal opinion) I dont give a jot why the person believes he has the right to take a life etc -I just care that they be swiftly bought to justice.
  
  I also would be willing to wager a bet that any court in any city today that God is seldom mentioned as to being the reason the offender is standing before the judge.
  
  That sadly is a huge part of a so called humane society, in the modern world today.
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Wentworth35posted 13 years ago
In the past few days, my view of religious people is changing, even though it is at a snail's pace. I have fallen into the trap of thinking of the religious in terms of their most extreme followers. So, the Muslim who flies planes into buildings, or the Christian group which attend the funerals of servicemen, with signs declaring that "God Hates Fags" have provided me with my idea of what it means to be religious. I have quite rightly been disgusted by such activity and have reacted by sticking my colours firmly to the atheist's post, and have spent my time reading the works of Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens. I have felt smug in the belief that my atheism is morally superior to the bigoted religious folk.

However, in the past few weeks, I have seen and spoken to Christians and Muslims, who are the most moderate of people, who are not sexist or homophobic. I have read also about all the fund-raising for people in need by religious organisations.

On top of this, I have found myself being attacked by atheists, who believe I am a traitor to the cause and that I am not atheistic enough. As I don't believe in God, I don't think I can get anymore atheist than that. I have also read online the anger and hatred that many atheists have against the religious believer. Whilst I understand the anger at certain elements within religion, such as bigotry, I can't help feeling that personal attacks of any kind are unnecessary. I have even read the great Richard Dawkins, who I have admiration for describe a man, who survived a plane crash and who thanked God for it as a fool. Such mean-spirited smugness is something which is increasingly becoming a part of what has been termed the "New Atheism" and it is something which I as an atheist do not want to be a part of. I want to be able to disagree with the religious and to point out where I believe they are wrong, just as the religious have the right to do the same to me. However, if atheism is to become the new fundamentalism, then it has lost all claim to hold the moral high ground. I realise there will be many atheists who disagree with me, and see me as a traitor to the cause, nevertheless, I can't help seeing injustice wherever it is evident. The bigoted atheist has no more claim to reason and rationality than the bigoted theist. I find it such a terrible shame that we can't discuss our different views without the anger, and when we simply can't agree, then we should simply agree to disagree.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Increase your self awareness and you'll see it change at a faster pace.
  Extreme followers are not needed to look at......but just look at the faithful follower, they are just as bad, if not worse than the extreme ones.
  Skip the morons of the extreme. It's obvious that hatred has them and nothing more. It's the lessor ones who are just as dangerous, by dictating to others how to live and attempting to manipulate them through religious laws.
  Then I would suggest that you change your view. Atheism isn't any more morally superior, simply because all humans are equal and no one is better than the rest. Yes, there are some that are smarter, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. It's all ego that would make one think they are.
  Yes, some do good for others. But, not many.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What a brilliant statement Wentworth! I think i shall pin that to my fridge.
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schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago
I'm not sure how someone like myself would infringe upon your life. Can you give examples? Of course you don't know me personally so you couldn't claim that I solicit or insult my gay friends (which I don't do). So what am I doing to piss you off?

On the other hand, things that people that you do, not you personally because I don't know you well, like insulting people like me for what I believe in is one...

I agree to live and let live. My entire religion or church may not do that but I do...and I don't have to be responsible or do everything they do. I just want to live my own quiet life, reading my bible and inspirational books, which is my business and pray and go to church. I want to try to be as kind as I can to my neighbor and to do that it helps me to be mindful of what other examples did like Jesus Christ. etc.
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the pink umbrellaposted 13 years ago
keep on fighting the good fight babe...lol, your just teasing the monster and making it angry. get under my pink umbrella. because non applicable scripture is about to fall down on you like a heavy rain.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I most certainly will.
  Which shows that the people don't practice what they supposedly believe.
  That's the best offer I've had in a long time.
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lynsposted 13 years ago
Sounds a bit personal to me but don't who are what you are referring to since there is so many religious orders, but I personally detect an anger in your question or is it the tone?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
The data came from Denise Golumbaski, who was a Research Analyst for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The data was compiled from up-to-the-day figures on March 5th, 1997. (Note that as of the year 1999, Analyst Golumbaski is no longer working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons; I had telephoned Analyst Golumbaski to request the latest figures, and was told by another analyst that Golumbaski was no longer employed there.) The data was requested by Mr. Rod Swift, who passed it on to me for my web site. I later called the Federal Bureau of Prisons and confirmed that the data did in fact come from their database.

Catholic 29,267 31.432%
Protestant 26,162 28.097%
None/Atheist/Unknown 18,537 19.908%
Muslim 5,435 5.837%
American Indian 2,408 2.586%
Nation of Islam 1,734 1.862%
Rastafarian 1,485 1.595%
Jewish 1,325 1.423%
Church of Christ 1,303 1.399%
Pentecostal 1,093 1.174%
Moorish 1,066 1.145%
Buddhist 882 0.947%
Jehovah's Witnesses 665 0.714%
Adventist 621 0.667%
Eastern Orthodox 375 0.403%
Latter-day Saints 298 0.320%
Scientology 190 0.204%
Hindu 119 0.128%
Santeria 117 0.126%
Sikh 14 0.015%
Baha'i 9 0.010%
ISKCON 7 0.008%
-------------------- ------ --------
Total 93,112 100.000%
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you implying that if no one had a religion Earnest ,that we would all be living in a world filled with love and goodwill toward our fellow man.
  
  Wow ,sorry my imagination is not that BIG
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am as usual implying nothing.
  I just delivered the latest stats without even bothering to read them.
  They are what they are.
  Do you have a better source?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whew, that's good to know, plenty of denominations but no Christians in discipleship mentioned!
  
  Joking aside it looks to be pretty much a demographic that matches the proportions found in society as a whole, except the secularists seem to have 20% which is far higher than they are numerically in society, being about 8%.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So I didn't doctor the figures or lie about it then?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Never thought you would, you don't lie, you may be wrong on occasion, but you don't lie!
  
  Stands to reason that most things you can measure will reflect society as a whole, with three possible variants in a prison population, those being that you could expect the inmates to be more prone to violence, pornography and homosexual actions (though not strictly speaking homosexuals, just repressed sexuality and a shortage of women) and a preponderance for drugs.... but as far as the cachement area for prisons, I would guess we all hold the same capacity to illegality pro rata and for getting caught, though I guess the average white collar thief stands a better chance than the average blue collar thief, and the white guy has a better chance of acquittal than a black guy.
  
  But those are stereo type racialism anyway.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well I pretty much see it the same way, I think there would be a few other variables, such as prisoners saying they are religious or not depending on what difference they may think that will cause in outcomes etc.
  I'm not sure that the non-believing sector is right at 8% though. It can be hard to get along in America if you don't profess a belief in a christian god on the outside.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh! you mean some folk may PRETEND to be Chistians for ulterior reasons!
  
  WOW, who would have believed it!
  
  But sadly you are right, Churchianity forces some folk to lie!
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  John, I just love that picture!
  
  Shocking!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So some of those who profess to be Christians could actually be secularist?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I think so. And many of the "unknown" may not be.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now, that's entirely logical. I like it.
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sofsposted 13 years ago
Wow Cags you seem to be more obsessed with religion than religious people are... what's up
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's at the foundation of humankind's ignorance. It must be dealt with.
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  sofsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL...have fun...the more you speak about God the closer you are getting to HIM
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  sofsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  agreed!!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong, Cags.
  
  Ego is the foundation of humanity's ignorance.
  
  When you pretend, as you do, that you know it all regarding religion, you are only displaying your own ego. Such an abomination. Hey, but that's your choice.
  
  And what? You would take away other people's choices? You start the forum complaining about proselytizing. Yes, some with big egos get out of hand, despite what Jesus said about "moving on" and not bothering the unbeliever any more.
  
  But now you say, "It's at the foundation of humankind's ignorance. It must be dealt with." Are you seeking even more control?
  
  Are you the one to decide what must be dealt with and how?
  
  How is religion destroying humanity? Or is it merely pushing your buttons?
  
  I'm guessing they're not the same buttons pushed by an obnoxious used car salesman.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I see you're out and about passing along more distortion yet again.
  Do you even know where the ego stems from? Until you do? Please try not to make yourself look anymore foolish.
  Actually, I know more about religion and it's destructive effects than you are ever willing to admit? So, what's that say about you? And, I don't claim to be a "know it all", and if I ever do, then you can make that claim, but until then, don't. Got it? And, yet again, my ego on display....it's not a surprise that you would say such a thing...I guess you've not learned to keep yours in check. I have learn it and no I'm not deluding myself about it. There's quite a difference between being deluded by one's ego and truth. Please, do try to learn the difference.
  I'm not taking away anyone's choices and I don't see how informing someone that they are invading someone's life by claiming that your god is going to have repercussions on their life is taking away their choices? You make no sense.
  Actually, I started this forum as a rant. Informing the religious people that they apparently don't know their place in this world and that their own religious view is precisely that- their own. That means, it has nothing to do with other people's life. You have a problem with keeping your religion to yourself? Those who don't have a religious view shouldn't be subjected to the fantasy believers believe.
  Don't bother speaking about Jesus or his teaching....it's apparent that you know very little about it, considering all the research you've done on the matter is still part and parcel of Jesus' teaching mixed with religion.
  No, I don't need to control other people. I prefer them to mind their own business and stay out of other people's life. What part do you not understand? It takes a high level of ignorance to not know your place in this world. It takes a lot of intolerance on behalf of believers to tell other people that they are not living their life in a specific way, according to something not real? Again, fantasy versus reality? Learn the difference.
  Am I the one to decide what must be dealt with and how? Well, if it boils down to it, I would glad open people's eyes to their actions, if that's what you mean. For a person who claims to be seeing with the eyes of the spiritual, you're not seeing things too good.
  It's not pushing my buttons. And as for religion destroying the world? I've written a hub on how world peace isn't happening due to religion and politics(religion invading other people's life through politics). Not to mention, religious beliefs create more conflict than they are of value to the rest of the world. They go out of their way to make claims which they need not make, nor take actions against others which need not be made.
  Ridiculous statement.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Religion destroying humanity!

sorry again ... don't want to interupt Just wanted to say something about the OP ....

Now talkabout somebody not taking blame for it's own actions like some people acuse us believers of doing?? what is with that?

I think that all of us humanity kind of people should start taking blame for what all of us have done and continue to do.

What's with that? We know better but we just keep on doing it.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  agreed but religion has been a systematic unit which has influenced humans in major way...in past there was great utility for religion but now it has become liability...i guess we must move on and remove religion from our lives...that would create vaccum which must be filled by humanity minus obsolete doctrines like religion...
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree to a small extent.....
  
  Religion is the lifepersever that we hang onto .... that keeps us from flying.....
  
  Now don't get mad everybody else ... I believe there There being a God!
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @pisean282311, why persist in pointing the finger at religion?
  
  Even if I were a secularist, I'd see that as off-target... and dumb!
  
  The ills that so many secularists blame religion for also exist outside of religion. So, duh! Logic, please! Something else is going on that is causing the problems.
  
  That source is ego.
  
  Ego is selfishness.
  
  Name any problem in history you think might have been caused by religion. It either was not a problem to begin with, or it was caused by ego.
  
  Name anything.
  
  Every religion is subject to the same ego which drove Hitler, Stalin, John Wayne Gacy, etc. Ego is the culprit; not religion, not spirituality and not love of God.
  
  Behind the Inquisition, Crusades and the murder of the Cathars was ego, not the spiritual core of religion. Can religion become perverted? You bet it can... by ego. But this is the same ego that keeps criminal atheists going, too.
  
  Wake up and smell the real problem and stop "kicking the dog" for something that happened at work. Wrong target!
  
  It just makes you look incredibly dumb. And I don't like to see my fellow humans suffer so. (and dogs, too)
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Disturbiaposted 13 years ago
Oh boy, here we go again.
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schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago
Christianity turns a lot of hardened criminals to a new way of life. I think there are many benefits that being one.

I don't know the negative effects, I haven't been educated on those. some other time perhaps. anyways.

I only see it as a positive force, and I remember one time you told me that Jesus Christ was a good figure to emulate.

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schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago
Well we can't help that more people are Christians. If committing crime has nothing to do with faith or non faith then I guess it's normal if there are more people commiting crimes that are Christian, because of the ratio. See Christians is a title people go by, it doesn't mean they are all Godly or the same. Just as I'm sure many atheists are good or bad.

It's probably good for you, that not all people that call themselves Christian are bible thumpers, because boy would that be more annoying!

Anyways, I guess there are "true Christians- who really follow the rule" and "true atheists". True Christians, I would describe as being Christlike, as in following Jesus Christ's example, which is really hard for any (human) to do. It's something to aspire to, it doesn't make them better than anyone else but the rules of being a Christian....promote good toward neighbor. The only thing I think that you would find annoying of most of 'these' would be evangelizing. But in my experience, in my Church, -and I haven't done it yet- is they go and provide a prayer service in nursing homes where the old people have no other outlet and really want and enjoy it. Also they gave out bracelets at a fair with some quote on them free, and just stood giving them out.....so......
and as for "witnessing", just telling people what we believe as in friends or anyone which is what you do in this forum!

All in all, the negative aspects of "religion" are the cooks who hijack planes or aren't really true Christians. And really any human being can be good or evil regardless of their beliefs. so leave Christians alone.........or try and focus on "bad" Christians (and maybe "bad" athiests, who make athiests as a whole look bad. For is athiest is really the best belief, then we may want to counterask 'why do they murder and kill etc'

If you pick on Christians then pick on athiests too. It's only fair
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christlike? How can anyone be of the same understanding of Jesus' teachings when all of Jesus' teachings were (a)not included into the bible to begin with and (b) were distorted before entering the bible to start with?
  
  People who claim to be "Christian"? Don't have a clue about it....all they do is talk the talk, but rarely walk the walk.
  
  Edit: I do pick on Atheists. Atheists are no better than those of the religious folk. Most Atheists at least live in reality to an extent versus living in a fantasy world. When Atheist over step their boundaries, it can be seen and I do point it out.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dont you mean ,most atheists tend to agree with you, of course they are going to make more sense to you
  
  You dont see how they live on here any more than you see me or any other believer.
  
  Selective and biased.
  
  Not surprising.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Wentworth35posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As an atheist, I have discovered that not all atheists share the same view. The thing atheists have in common is a lack of a belief if God. However, I've encountered atheists who believe in the afterlife and some really strange things, such as fairies or alien visitation. And atheists can get into very heated arguments with each other about whose view of atheism is the correct one.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fairies: a small species of earth animals that fly and look similar to humans. Unknown in recent times. If intelligent, would seem to violate a few natural laws pretty well understood in biology. Probability; fairly low.
  
  Alien visitation: Assumption that out of the inconceivable number of planets in the universe at least one more has produced intelligent life AND that that life has visited earth. Probability; almost certain they exist, low that they have visited earth as often as has been reported without ever being verified.
  
  God: Species consisting of one individual, capable of doing anything at all and knowing everything. Existed in an alternate universe for an eternity before creating this one and will exist somewhere for an eternity after this one dies. Known to violate nearly every natural law we know and understand. Known to visit earth and die without dying. Probability: Quite a bit lower than fairies.
  
  Of the three I know which one I would consider "really strange" although I don't believe there is any truth in any of them.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ANd how do you know that?
  Yes, many walk the walk
  but you wouldn't admit that would you?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Schoolgirl, when I see one walk the walk, I'll admit it. But since they are taught by the same methods that have been handed down through generation after generation, all based on the manipulated text of religion...how would YOU know the difference?
  
  Are you willing to admit that you don't know that the text was manipulated? If not, then you're just lying to yourself, because religion(the church and rulers at that time) were the ones who compiled the canons for the bible, which you read.
  
  The original language many text were written in, DO NOT even have words in the English or Jewish language. Even the Greek language didn't have words for the original texts. So, words were put in place, to convey context.
  
  So please.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  3 Nephi 14:20 "Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them."
  The fruits of churches that practice their specific religions bear fruit, either sweet, or sour.
  The fruits of people who practice their specific religion bear fruit, either sweet, or sour.
  Churches make mistakes, and People make mistakes; the fruit that they each produce is testament to this.
  Some churches have a paid clergy, some do not work (minister) for "filthy lucre".
  Some people pay alms, and some do not, as they are moved to do so, or not.
  God does not err; He has commanded His followers to pay tithing honestly, and He also commands us to pay the tax-man honestly.
  Some other fruits of the various churches can be seen by all the outreach programs they sponsor, by all the emergency assistance they send to their neighbours, and other countries when disaster strikes, and of course by their behaviours toward their fellow man in everyday life, including the dissemination of the Good Word Gospel to all those who thirst for it (not to all those who shun it, although it is still "offered").
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Timothy, but I am aware of what the bible and history has to say on the subject.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, putting it simply, however we got the 'Word' God gave it to us,and it was sufficient for what He intended it to do: lead any willing seeker to salvation through Christ.
  
  You speak of deletions from ancient texts, yet produce none of the evidence you require from anyone else making such claims.
  
  God, to be God, must be all powerful etc...
  
  Do you really believe that what has happened historically has been out of Gods control?
  
  God chooses to allow humanity to make errors, but throughout history His true 'remnant' has carried the torch of the testimony, which has always been sufficient to lead all men to Christ.
  
  Some just choose to stay in the darkness and trust themselves.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's a pretty self serving statement. But, that's how religion plays to ego.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, you know what, I didn't once claim it was his ego in my post. Didn't have to either.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What god?
  It's all been recorded throughout history, if you're not willing to research your topic(religion), then what would be the sense in me doing it for you? You wouldn't believe me anyways.
  What god again?
  Again, what god?
  Untrue. It's man's manipulation of text which was gathered that has lead people to "Christ", which wasn't even Jesus' NAME to begin with. That's just how the rulers at the time of his death labeled Jesus' teachings, so people would buy it more easily. Man, don't you read anything outside of the bible?
  And, you know what you would be correct....and religion does a good job at keeping people in the darkness. You're a prime example.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Three times you renounce God in the same post, congratulations you are up there with Peter.
  
  Sorry you must have been hurt at some time, hurt enough to demonstrate this bizarre complex that hanging out in religious forums and spouting your nonsense will somehow stop believers communication of Gods word.
  
  Maybe God is chasing you!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Nonsense? It's not nonsense when it infringes upon the rights of others. I realize that you're not American, but I'm an advocate for American rights. So far, nothing and I mean nothing you've said in this thread has disputed the actions of believers and how they invade the right to life of others. And, quit trying to make this about ME. It's not about me, it's about rights of the individual has to live their life without being scorned or scolded by the likes of you.
  Again, what god? Or did you not catch it the last three times I said it.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Nonsense? It's not nonsense when it infringes upon the rights of others."
  
  Fine Cagsil, then understand that YOU are infringing on MY rights to speak openly about God in a religious forum.
  
  Nobody forces you to come here to hear me preach,YOU decide with the free will God gave you, to waste your time trying to infringe MY rights to free speech, in a forum designated for that exact purpose.
  
  "So far, nothing and I mean nothing you've said in this thread has disputed the actions of believers and how they invade the right to life of others."
  
  Of course not, I actually DEFEND the rights of individuals to speak as they see fit, even when I disagree with what they say.
  
  Who appointed YOU to be the censor around here?
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You do understand that christians, those who proselytize at least, attempt to censor everyone also? A bit of a pot/kettle argument you've presented, if you ask me
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How is that Emily?
  
  Definition of PROSELYTIZE
  
  intransitive verb
  1: to induce someone to convert to one's faith
  2: to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
  
  Nothing about censorship there, indeed you say; "Christians, those who proselytize at least" as if it is an insult, when in fact it is the mark of someone following the commandments of Christ.
  
  In that instance, nobody is attempting to stop non believers offering a different opinion, indeed, those of us who can be bothered, on occasion, to spend time in these 'religious' forums, do so in order that we may show all and sundry that we are seeking to 'induce someone to convert to one's faith' despite the opposition against our 'proselytizing'
  
  Not at all, Raymond is free to make his case as to why someone should reject God and chose self over Him, that is his right, what he (Raymond) is NOT entitled to do is demand that anyone else must stop doing things which he feels threaten his ethos and beliefs.
  
  Cagsil is in a religion of one as far as I can see, and he is the god he is inspired to worship, which again is perfectly fine and dandy, indeed he belongs to the most desired religion that exists, that one where whatever you decide is correct is acceptable and nobody has the right to dispute your cause.
  
  I wish him well, but must inform all that I refuse to conjoin in the subversion of free speech.
  
  ------------------------------------------
  
  "First They Came for the Jews"
  By Pastor Niemoller
  
  First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
  
  Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
  
  Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
  
  Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
  
  WE do well to remember that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to stay silent.
  
  John
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, don't hijack one of my favorite quotes and use it in defense of those who go about condemning others. That's one reason I choose to speak out so freely against your brand of faith. Given free reign, you'd all be Islam at its worst, or Hitler.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hopefully you were smiling whilst writing that!
  
  Nobody condemns people, but many will point out that according to scripture (John 3 16-19 to be precise) people are condemning themselves, whole different ball game and one of those 'if the cap fits wear it' situations.
  
  I never understand why people who say that what the bible states is rubbish get so concerned over what the bible says?
  
  No way, well Ok maybe those looney lot down south who picket funerals may get all het up and go really radical, but you have no fear, nobody will give Christianity 'free reign' and even if they tried, the worse you would see was God back in the classrooms.
  
  We would definitely NOT be Islamic in any instance! and most of the grave markers seen in WW2 graveyards happen to have Christian symbols on them, so I think that Christians have shown their ability to stand up against tyrants and dictators.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Free men and women have stood up against tyrants. Germany was full of Christians who followed Hitler. And, no, I wasn't smiling when I posted that. I do believe evangelical Christianity has shadows of Islamic ideals waiting for the power to rise to the surface and enslave those who disagree. I have never, nor will I ever, believe that a deity would have any association with such a belief.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  In that instance, I would die resisting that uprising, for it would be evil personified.
  
  But I do not think that will happen, the next major event is the rise of the 'One World' 'Universal' religion, which will appear to be very accommodating, so long as you swear allegiance to it's core beliefs, but will actually seek to ensnare all who accept it.
  
  If you refuse that invitation, you will die, alongside me.
  
  And again I agree with you, for in this scenario God will again send His Son to deal with the situation, though this time Christ will not be meek and mild, and we get to see Megiddo feature heavily in the news broadcasts.
  
  John
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He is self -appointed
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Self appointed censor? No.
  
  It's not about censorship and only an idiot would think it is.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well you said it -not me
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not infringing upon your rights to openly speak about "God" in a religious forum. You may think so, but it's PUBLIC domain, NOT YOUR domain. What do you not understand about individual rights? Again, as I said, you're not American and I don't expect you to understand.
  
  Btw- Free Speech DOES have boundaries. Go learn something would you?
  
  Edit: The OP is about what you can and cannot say to other people, with regards to your religion. Religion is supposedly a personal thing and since it's personal, if you don't believe then it should be fine with all others that you don't believe. It's not their right to tell others how they believe another person's life is supposed to be lived. My OP is just to inform believers that they are over stepping their AUTHORITY of living here and infringing upon the rights of those who don't believe. It's YOUR god that mean it's rules apply to YOU in your fantasy world.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No religion, is not personal Cags, how can it be ,when Christ died for EVERYONE
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Prove it without using a religion book to do so.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Condescending nonsense, as if ONLY Americans could understand anything.
  
  Yes it does, an English judge decreed that one does NOT have the right to shout 'fire' in a crowded cinema without reason, i.e. one cannot create a danger to other people by your free speech, apart from that nobody has the right to decide what is acceptable and what is not.
  
  Like I said, who appointed you to be the censor?
  
  No argument there, you can disbelieve whatsoever you choose to, but you have no right or ability to decree what I can or cannot say to anyone.
  
  Your opinion, especially funny as you just presumed to tell others how YOU believe another person's life is supposed to be lived.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And the level of ignorance in the world where more idiots think people are talking about beliefs or opinions, just shows you how you are nothing but full of yourself.
  
  I told you already to quit trying to make this about ME, but you apparently lack the ability to reason or understand that.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Americans understand that rights are important. You apparently lack any ability to know that your rights are limited.
  And, like I said, it's not about me, so get over it already.
  Actually, when you do more harm than good, you over step your authority of living in this world. Got it? Or do I have to explain it to you.
  Not everyone on this planet speaks about their beliefs or just has opinions, there's something called facts and truth, which you have no understanding of, simply because whenever someone seems to disagree with you, you then pass it on to them as if they were the wrong one saying something.
  
  You know, that's called "EGO", and boy are you full of it.
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Onusonusposted 13 years ago
Religion is what makes society good. It's the people who want to get rid of religion that are evil, oppressive, and self destructive. They wish to invent their own happiness away from God and make God illegal when he is the very being that made it possible for us to exist and exercise our free will. For that we are indebted to him and will be forever.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're funny.
  Religion teaches hypocrisy and intolerance, yet you're claiming those who want to rid the world of religion evil? Talk about ignorance.
  Pure conjecture and no proof other than religious books that all say the same thing, which were put together by men. You're funny
  
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  jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Paraphrasing: Is it that religion make fools or is it that fools percolate to religion?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Here is another of Sam Harris's quotes for religionists to consider.

Incompatible religious doctrines have balkanized our world into separate moral communities, and these divisions have become a continuous source of bloodshed. Indeed, religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it has been at any time in the past. The recent conflicts in Palestine (Jews vs. Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians vs. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians vs. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants vs. Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims vs. Hindus), Sudan (Muslims vs. Christians and animists), Nigeria (Muslims vs. Christians), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims vs. Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists vs. Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims vs. Timorese Christians), Iran and Iraq (Shiite vs. Sunni Muslims), and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians vs. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis vs. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians) are merely a few cases in point. These are places where religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in recent decades.

Why is religion such a potent source of violence? There is no other sphere of discourse in which human beings so fully articulate their differences from one another, or cast these differences in terms of everlasting rewards and punishments. Religion is the one endeavor in which us–them thinking achieves a transcendent significance. If you really believe that calling God by the right name can spell the difference between eternal happiness and eternal suffering, then it becomes quite reasonable to treat heretics and unbelievers rather badly. The stakes of our religious differences are immeasurably higher than those born of mere tribalism, racism, or politics.”
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ earnesthub, It has also been written, and I quote: “does not the assumed notion that these venerable Ten Commandments, recorded in ages past, were the concoction of man, likely invoked as a convenient necessity or a pompous ploy, which therefore because of this, brings about, through dissension, the terrible discord and warring amongst people, the unreasonable and unrelenting controversy amongst scholars, the troubles and plagues of man, and no doubt - abandonment - or change? (God Forbid.)”
  It is the abandonment of God, or SHORT-CHANGING of His Word that leads people and nations to qualms, discord and warring with one each and another.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It may have been written, but that doesn't make it true. All these things need pondering, especially this part I believe.
  
  Religion is the one endeavor in which us–them thinking achieves a transcendent significance.
  
  "If you really believe that calling God by the right name can spell the difference between eternal happiness and eternal suffering, then it becomes quite reasonable to treat heretics and unbelievers rather badly."
  
  Soak this up Timothy, it is the result of a very good mind at work.
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  Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ earnesthub, "Religion is the one endeavor in which us–them thinking achieves a transcendent significance."
  That is one neat quote; I tend to agree with it.
  I do not agree with the second quote, because it quite simply "SHORT-CHANGES" God, by choosing to only follow certain selected text rather than the totality of the Gospel, each verse reconciled with the other, each Book reconciled with the other, each RECORD reconciled with the other.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have seen many explanations of this reconciliation, could you explain yours?
  I have not seen one logical explanation in my life so far, but hey, I may live a long life!
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Earnestshub , The quintisential unfathful atheist warrior fighting against the inproprieties of the faithful. Fight on oh great warrior . Fill up those forum columns, Ahh come on man give it up ,you are a God freak!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A god freak yet! Warrior? I used to serve a bikie club named the warriors, nice blokes if they were on your side.
  
  I needed a spot of humour to go with my breakfast, thanks!
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  ahorsebackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You see there you go , no wonder , Breakfast at night ! No wonder God left you in the bleachers!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We just stay a day ahead of the rest of the world.
  
  You guys need to learn to keep up!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's night where YOU are, it's morning of tomorrow where Earnest is.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I like to think of it as simply being ahead.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cagsil reminds me of the man chasing windmills , come out of the closet Cags the Christians await your redemption. Don't cha just hate closet God freaks ........have patience my son they will get to you yet!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're joking right? I was born and raised Catholic. I did my research of your precious religion, which is probably something you didn't do or did do but with a closed mind.
  God freaks? I don't hate anyone if that matters. I just prefer that the real "God" freaks would stay out of other people's life.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Then answer this my man , Why in the hell are you guys always in the forums dissing the people of faith ? Its like what ? Cags is dissing the faithfull again!!!! Dont cha get it . If I were an atheist I wouldn't go to war each morning! Go ahead ...don't be a believer , no one cares......
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only an irrational person would think that I AM dissing their faith. I am trying to wake up those who take their teachings from others on faith and DO RESEARCH the religion they choose.
  
  Jesus despised religion and claimed it had a false god. Yet, when YOU look to Jesus' teachings the ONLY location you will find them is INSIDE religion? Go figure....the masses are too gullible to take the hint.
  I get it, but apparently only the gullible are faithful to that which they DO NOT research.
  Actually, if you were an atheist, that's exactly what you would do. You would have to have NO religious affiliation whatsoever, to not go to war each morning.
  And, that should show you that intolerance and ignorance goes hand in hand with religion. It's taught to have no tolerance for others, but to love them anyways, which actually contradictions any understanding of what love actually is.
  
  If you love someone then tolerance is automatic. Don'tcha get it?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some of us care very much about our children and gullible people being told a pack of myths about a sky fairy who controls them from above like a puppet.
  
  My children have managed to avoid a lot of it, as we have a decent education system where I live.
  
  When the religiously impaired stop telling us that goddunnit and we are going to be tortured and rot in hell because we don't buy bulldust and are not gullible, I will never post again.
  
  Until then, it's liars for jesus will be challenged at every turn by many of those who are morally capable here.
  
  What is more interesting is.... why are you are up in arms about it?
  Simply don't read it yourself if that's how you feel, don't project that on us.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Another little question for you.

When will the religiously impaired stop using the forums on a writing site to flog their myths endlessly?
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Earny , ask yourself this . "If I don't believe , why do I spend countless hours trying to chase the dragons away", the dragons of believers! You know the ones you dont want to believe in! Its like whats hiding under an atheists bed anyway ?.....
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Ahorseback,
  
  You do realize that Earnest and Myself are not Atheist, even by Atheism definition, right?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is pure pop psych ahorseback, I run a helluva lot deeper than that!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The name isn't Earny. (misspelt anyway) My name does not abbreviate to Ernie, it is earnest with an A.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cagsil, You were raised Catholic , so lets see . The ruler on the back of the hand really went to the soul didn't it? And momma said "well you should have paid attention in class"! And its that that hurts most isn't it? You dont hate believers ,you hate the nuns. And can't see beyond that red light....
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I said I was raised Catholic, only to show you that I did once have teachers who taught me about it.
  My mother said no such thing. And, I was never hit with a ruler.
  I don't hurt. I have nothing to hurt from.
  What part of "I don't hate anyone" do you NOT understand?
  Apparently, you cannot see beyond yourself, much less anything else.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cags ,a non believer by any other name is still a non believer ......Whats that eight percent solution ? Not everyone will ever agree on one thing because........just because.....Thats why Juries never work .
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Solution to what exactly? I've come up with many solutions. What would you like a solution to?
  This is a foolish statement, because Juries do actually work. The only reason a Jury wouldn't work is when ignorant people purposely choose to use their BS beliefs to interfere with the process.
  
  So, do try to make a point in your next post, otherwise, talking with you is going to become futile.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
The OP .Cags says ....."believers ...stay away!" .....but you do believe ?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The OP doesn't say anything of the sort or do you have a comprehension problem.
  
  It simply says to believer that if you're going to believe in a god then do so, but keep it out of other people's life. You want to believe, fine. I'm willing to concede to you believing. However, when you come out in public and tell other people that your god is going to condemn them or pass judgment upon them, then you have over stepped your authority as a human being and infringed upon the rights of others.
  
  Or did you not get that from the OP?
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Sorry Earnie , I must have lost my head ! Atheists are always on the cutting edge of faith! Someone once said it takes more FAITH to be an atheist than a believer . But hey what do I know ! { Not an Open question}....Read the O.P .Why is it you guys always rip and tear at someone elses wall , like you have to disproove faith in order to ....what .. show your lack of fear???
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have a small problem here. I am not an atheist.
  
  Better scrub everything after that.
  Why would it take faith to dismiss a bronze age myth as not what I would like my children to live their lives by?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I swear, do you even read posts?
  
  The questions you have in the post I am replying to have been answered. Do you have any other questions you would like answered? I'm sure if you were to read some of the other posts in this thread up to this point, then those questions might be answered too. However, I'm not willing to bet you are here looking for answers to question, but are here in an attempt to defend your faith for some odd reason.
  
  There's TRUTH in my words and you cannot deny what has been uttered in this thread. NONE of it.
  
  The day the religious keeps their religion out of other people's life, will be the day that I stop fighting back against them. The infringement of the rights of others is what matters and the religious folk need to learn their place in this world, otherwise, only more conflict will arise. Not to mention, the religious folk fail to realize that the teachings of religion is intolerance and ignorance, with regards to reality.
  
  Yes, you may be believe what you like, but under no circumstances are your beliefs to intrude upon that of someone else's life.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
So you bought into it ? "You're going to hell if you dont believe ?"What did they hold you hostage ??? Push yu against a wall and frisk you? NO ....thats why I'm just saying "why does it bother you soo"....Give it up man ....you want it ...you want to believe ". Come on Earnie
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said. pop psychology. You need to understand my motives for opposing lies?
  
  A good grasp of morals and consequences suffice for me.
  
  What is your reason for commenting?
  
  I don't like liars who spend their waking hours trying to force garbage down people's throats, especially the hateful crap that turns up here daily.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
No Earnie you are not an atheist , you are not a Christian ....you just diss everyone according to .....oh I know the 'eight percenters' ....just because.....
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
You know what guys ? I am only a spiriual believer , not a practicing Christian by any means. Perhaps you guys need to drop the swords and just go about your business of not buying anything they sell ! Those who need it buy it those who don't...don't ....so why do you have to post against your own beliefs. Just to see your avatar?.....
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know, that's one of the bigger problems in the world, aside from religion.
  
  What is with people seeming to think that - everyone is either speaking about opinion or beliefs?
  
  Do people not understand that facts and truth actually exist?
  
  Do people not understand that knowledge and wisdom are actually the keys to understanding life?
  
  I mean, seriously.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seems not, Ray. But many have been taught from their earliest years not to believe anything which contradicts the scriptures taught at their own particular cult gatherings. And many do what they are told instead of seeking out truth for themselves. And it goes on.....
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you post I wonder? Just to see your avatar?
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Ok Guys , Its as simple as this ....You believe or not!. You paint your house white because you like white! But you dont paint it white and bitch about the other white houses...... Believe or DON"T believe , leave those who do ,to themselves. Whats hard about that. But no ! ....Not you guys , the same ones over and over pissing and moaning about "Those" christians .........
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  It appears not much is simple these days.
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  wheelinalloverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are always going to be people who "spread the word" just as their have for centuries. This is going to be true of any religion. Even the people who are spiritualists are going to tell people what they see or believe. No man is an island and whatever they believe will help them make friends they will use.
  
  There are many who need to believe their is a "higher power" and without this the world would have many more practicing alcoholics. The people who treat drug addicts and many other "conditions" use a higher power to help people who really need help. Is this wrong?
  
  I do admit to being christian but don't and won't force it upon anyone who has no interest. I am part of a community who live and believe the Bible according to Acts. This book says that we must admit to being a follower of Christ. It doesn't say that we have to force other people to listen to anything beyond that.
  
  In the point in time Acts was lived an admission of Christianity was pretty much a death sentence yet people who believed freely admitted they were. They were also to teach non believers by example not by making anyone who didn't want to listen feel forced.
  
  In reality I see nothing wrong with following Christs teachings. I don't mean a religion who tell you, you must do this or that. Christ taught for the most part only to those who expressed an interest in what he was saying and doing. He didn't make people feel forced to hear what he had to say other than the ones who were the "religious" elite of the day.
  
  The time that Acts was written about there was no church, just followers of Christs teachings. True followers are more like the "salespeople" of today its tell not sell. In "sales" if someone says no twice it's time to walk away, the people of Acts time only needed to hear "not interested" one time and they were gone. They knew they were putting their life in danger just by talking about their beliefs.
  
  A true follower know they will be prosecuted for their beliefs. If they are not they put down they are doing something wrong. They also know they are to teach the ones who are willing to learn and walk away from the rest.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I don't mean to bust your balls, but I'm not doubting what you're saying, however, I do like the way you phrased this above.
  
  Believe it or not, I have no issue with people who believe there's a higher power. This can be intelligently discussed. It's when they make the claims that said higher power is also a higher authority is when I have an issue with it. Especially, if this higher authority is supposedly going to punish those who don't understand or believe.
  That's pure manipulation, which yes I don't agree with.
  Just curious, anyone in your community actually research "Acts"? I've not heard good things about the writings. Just thought I would ask.
  Oh good....now which version of Jesus' teachings are you actually following? The manipulated version the "church" put into the bible or the original? Hmmmm.....just a thought.
  It's not being forced. It's the irresponsibility of Jesus' followers who continue to claim other people are going to suffer if they don't believe. Telling someone that infringes upon another person's right to life, which is their right to live however they so choose. A person doesn't need to be condemned for how they live, unless they live a life that is harmful to others and refuse to change their ways. By all accounts, those who choose to be harmful by telling people that they are going to be condemned could be view as being harmful to others....does that mean they are criminals or should be in prison? No, but it needs to stop.
  I have no problem with Jesus' teachings as long as you leave out the mysticism part that religion has applied to his teachings.
  Religious elite? You mean rulers of civilizations, right? Those who already controlled religion and what it said, right
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  wheelinalloverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I couldn't pull up what you had written so will have to work from my fallible memory. I don't believe I said anything about punishment. From my memory I only remember one case in Acts. This was the couple who withheld what belonged to the community. Current law would punish for the same infraction other than the fact that today it would be a civil matter. It was stealing just the same.
  
  I have no idea or belief that someone who doesn't know will be punished for anything or that someone who does will either. People break the law daily and many go without being punished. My freedom of choice VS law is my biggest problem.
  
  I do believe there is something beyond death, from personal experience. I have been legally dead, yet during the time I was dead my mind was still functioning. We are talking a long time as these things go. A few minutes more and my mind would have been toast. There was no "special" thing happen, I was just aware even though my heart wasn't beating on its own for 27 minutes.
  
  I was not forced or manipulated into believing anything when I went through the twelve step program. Others I talked to failed if they didn't have a belief of some kind of higher power before they started treatment. The truth is you can't force anyone to believe anything. Some just play a game of believing but the program fails for them. I have seen this time and time again.
  
  The one over riding truth is you have to quit for yourself. It can't be done for others, only for yourself. Believing in a higher power is an important part of it. No one had the guts to tell me I would be punished if I didn't quit. The doctor told me however that I wouldn't survive another six months if I didn't quit.
  
  If there is manipulation happening it's way before anyone joins the program. In America you can't make it through childhood, even if like me your primary language at the time isn't English, without hearing about "God". My early upbringing had more to do with animal spirits which again equals in some way "higher power".
  
  With English being my third language I am well aware there is no such thing as a perfect translation. There is truth in every translation if you look for it. Christianity is not the only "religion" I looked at. I also saw these things when I stayed alone in the wilderness. I see the same basic truths in every "religious" book I have read. Most of those truths also are found in the law of the land (United States).
  
  You have the right to choose what you believe just as I do. Lets just viva la difference and part friends.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You write very well since English is not your first language
  
  Note: Don't worry having a perfect grasp on English grammar is NOT a prerequiste to entering Heaven
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are joking right?
  
  Do me a favor, if you would kindly....go through this thread and read it "word for word" and if you have any confusion, I will be glad to put to rest anything you have a problem with.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
No!, thats correct , nothing is simple .....except what we chosse to make simple, seriously! Why complicate anything. For oneself especially, or for others?....what so hard about , "just let them be "?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would let them be, if they knew their place in this world and didn't bother to tell others that because they believe that others are going to rot in hell or be condemned to a hell that doesn't even exist.
  
  What's wrong with you people? I mean seriously, who buys this BS?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God loves me-Simple
  God love you -Simple
  
  Not
  
  If I lay my pride and/or ego aside ,I would say I might be wrong about God.
  
  But heres how its been working so far for me:
  My life,my mind,is peaceful now,content,satisfied with answers.
  And all those good emotions dont come from a bottle or a medical script.
  
  So if it aint broken,and God works ,why would I change it,or go back to 'no God'
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cags ,Ah yes , you see there it is ! "If they only knew there place " ,...Who and what place is that!
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
You all, who constantly bash those who are of faith are perhaps hiding something of an agenda in your closet, you say " I dont want you to speak to me of god" and mean . "I dont want to have to listen and believe what you're saying." Here's a clue . If you don't want to listen .....don't! Why can't he or she say what they want about their faith though? ....Unless you are worried that you might fall for it! Be brave guys ....The God machine cannot hurt you!
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey horseback. You seem to be on the spiritual side. What posts of yours I've read. Evangelicals give your religion a bad name. Telling people they are headed for hell and attempting to push their personal opinions as some deity's final judgment.
  
  Those who claim to be Christian who defend the evangelical's right to attempt to bully and push, condemn themselves to be lumped in to that brand of faith.
  
  No one is afraid they'll buy into the madness. I, for one, am tired of having to deal with the madness and listen to their hatred of humanity.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So why hang out in places where you are GUARANTEED to meet radical believers?
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because
  
  They Came for the Jews" By Pastor Niemoller
  
  First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
  
  Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
  
  Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
  
  Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
  
  WE do well to remember that all that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to remain silent.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  So how could you defend Raymonds' position?
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think, Raymond was venting . We all do it, from time to time. The good thing is, Raymond appears to know he is a party of one. He isn't attempting to invoke the wrath of a deity to back up his frustration.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As a party of one, he would have problems attempting to raise a deity for anything!
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't take into account the story of Moses or Elijah in that statement. If there were a god, it would only take one. I don't see any evidence in your scripture to negate that point.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You forget that both of those men actually had a relationship with God, whereas Raymond denies God, so Raymond is the only 'deity' he can 'invoke'.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You assume you actually have a relationship. I have four months of anecdotal evidence obtained by reading your posts that appear to point otherwise.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, I state that THOSE men have a relationship, I cannot speak for myself, I do communicate with God through Christ, I have seen amazing changes in people that have been ministered to and my life has changed since I started 'my' relationship with God, but it is Gods choice alone whether I hear 'Well done faithful servant' or 'I do not know you' when we meet.
  
  Nobody should enter His service for the reward they may receive, and scripture shows us that MOST of the 'Mighty men of God' were deeply flawed by human standards.
  
  His ways are NOT our ways, and I TRUST God to deliver me to the eternity He has chosen for me.
  
  I really do not think you have the ability to judge how God will react to my life and actions, and you have no idea of how I conduct my life outside of the confines of the forums.
  
  Have a nice day!
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As I said, the evidence was gleaned from reading your posts. That is not a judgment, it is an observation. I'm not quite certain how you jumped from the reality of my post, to the fantasy of being unfairly judged.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Howdy aguasilver & Emile R and top of tha morning to You all.

...
WE do well to remember that all that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to remain silent.
..

This is kinda off the wall but kinda on a parallel.
The message that I get out of this is that believers are to run from temptation, and build a fortress against evil.
Where do we build this fortress but in our own mind? Not someone else’s.
It would be trespassing for me to build a fortress on land which doesn't belong to me.

It is said that we must fight fire with fire. I don't know who first said this? In order to put out a forest fire we set backfires so that the fire burns itself out before it gets to us; BUT concerning spiritual things ... this is wrong.

To fight fire with fire is to become the thing that we want to put out.
To become the thing that we hate.?
So how are supposed to fight evil and not become just like it.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh Jerami,. there lies the rub.... I need to stay out of the forums mostly, and make short forays into the pit in order to (hopefully) direct a stream of water at the core of a fire, when I have time, but yes, if I stay here too long then the fires I am trying to quench will raise my temperature to boiling point and I may just explode on occasion, then I either leave it alone for a while or get banned!
  
  Works for me!
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good point jerami. And, it is something I struggle with, in my own mind. But, evangelical christianity is a blight on the concept freedom of thought, freedom of religion and the pursuit of happiness. How do you not strike out against it, and not feel as if you are sitting silently by and allowing prejudice to run rampant?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do understand where you are coming from.
  evangelical being the key word.
  
  as far as an answer to your question? Timming would be the test.
  
  If everyone started setting backfires too soon ... the whole world will burn down
  
  And too late is a waste of matches.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are many things that happen in the spiritual realm that we do not understand ,nor have the power to control.
  
  For the Christian he/she learns that we have an advocate ,someone who stands before us 'Spiritually' discerning that which we can not fully comprehend ,nor humanly have the ability to fully decipher.
  
  By faith ,we believe Jesus Christ is our Captain and Saviour,interceding on our behalf.
  
  Physically we need to be responsible for our actions.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Does religion cause division and hate?

I think religion is kinda like a shovel.

Does digging a whole in the flower bed create the worms which are found?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mankind wars over everything ,themselves and each other!
  
  Seems we are always on the edge of some kind of conflict,one way or another.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes we are. We find that which we look for. And there are too many people looking for just about everything imagionable.
  
  Sometimes ,, what one person finds ... everybody wears.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you get the impression sometimes that religion finds worms in their own pockets and claims they came from the flower bed?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  YEP I do ... but lets substitute the word religious with People.
  People do.
  
  Funny thing IS, we wouldn't be able to recognize in in someone else's pocket if we weren't so familar with it in ourselves.
  
  The bigger the worm in your pocket; the smaller mine seems to be.
  The heavier the burdon ... that I preceive yours to be ... it sems that mine is easier to carry. Seems to be! being the key word.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Might makes right philosophy needs to go away. It's destructive.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "IF" that were true"?
  how would that affect survival of the fittest?
  what does that do to the theory of evolution?
  
  Survival of the weakest?
  
  The statement carries much more "Effects" than anyone would want to live with; I think.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Believe it or not, survival of the fittest is an animal perception carried over to humankind. It can survive, but other factors are involved also.
  Wouldn't change it and to think it matters with regards to evolution, would only show that you don't understand evolution. Just saying.
  I'm sure it does, but with more people being more consciously aware of the world we live in and their own actions and the effects they have on others....then things would change for the better.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure it does, but with more people being more consciously aware of the world we live in and their own actions and the effects they have on others....then things would change for the better
  
  ... You might be right ? But don't you think that the more people that become aware ?? there will be more people in the ring, causing ... MORE conflict.
  
  The only thing that ever changes is "WHO" wears the badge of "I'm right" and you are wrong.
  
  There will alwys be some group which carries the greatest anount of MIGHT.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That depends on too many factors. The nature vs nuture makes all the difference. How children are raised.
  That is appearance only, as you and myself have gone through this exchange once before.
  Why would you believe that? When it's the people who control themselves, also control the governments. People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, it's the governments who should be afraid of their people.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That depends on too many factors. The nature vs nuture makes all the difference. How children are raised.
  
  -----
  
  too many factors to figure? so we just ignore them and state our conclusions anyway ..?..
  I'd say that everybody is doing just that .!.. cause this is all that humanity is capable of.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Too many factors for a forum post, however, it sounds like a good hub material though.
  No, you don't ignore them, but do recognize them as an individual, learn, increase knowledge and always improve upon self. It's the only way to actual peace.
  This is all that humanity is capable of? WOW! You must think that humans are completely and utter pathetic? There's more to life and it's not about the individual(ego). We've had this discussion before also.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There's more to life and it's not about the individual(ego).
  
  =========
  ME
  It is about the individual! But is not a group just a bunch of individuals who happen to be at the same place?
  Millions of individuals with no one to guide them.
  Doesn't sound like improvement to me.
  
  =======================================
  You..
  We've had this discussion before also.
  
  ----
  
  Me …
  Yes we have. And has your position changed one iota.
  Mine changes every day.
  
  While having a good day today ... I'm busy about the home... cleaning everything and sitting down here from time to time so please excuse pauses between comments.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In one aspect only is it about the individual. It's about the individual maintaining a purpose for their actions. That purpose shouldn't be about themselves, but should be about something more important, like the survival of the human species.
  Purpose guides them.
  I'm sure it doesn't if they don't have a guide in place.
  From what you've said above, you've not changed. You've still limited yourself and put that same limitation on other people as well. So, no actually you've not changed one bit in the 2 years(almost 2 years I have been here).
  
  I change everyday, but my purpose doesn't, which is to increase awareness and knowledge of the average individual.
  It's not a problem.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I change everyday, but my purpose doesn't, which is to increase awareness and knowledge of the average individual.
  ========
  
  me
  How can a person change and their perseption of their purpose not change with it?
  
  You may think that my perseptions haven't changed, but they have.
  AND my perseption of my purpose as well.
  
  Wish I could say that my spelling has as well (But I can't)
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perception changes based on knowledge and wisdom. Otherwise, it remains the same. A purpose doesn't have to change if it's already the single most important aspect, common denominator, small component, of a much larger picture/puzzle.
  But the words you use to convey your perception says otherwise.
  Again, not a problem.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perception changes based on knowledge and wisdom. Otherwise, it remains the same. A purpose doesn't have to change if it's already the single most important aspect, common denominator, small component, of a much larger picture/puzzle.
  
  ========
  
  No offense ... Now isn't that being close minded .?.. concerning holding onto a purpose.
  
  Christians hold onto their perception of their purpose the same as you hold onto yours.
  
  Many times in life; I have discovered that MY purpose needed to change along with my understanding.
  
  Not to say that I will ever "get it right"
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, a purpose is just a small piece of a large picture. It's not being closed minded, but actually is being open minded, because you are able to see the larger picture.
  That's the problem Jerami, their perception isn't backed by knowledge and/or wisdom, but is on faith, which isn't of any substance. Therefore their usage is incorrect and means that they are only fooling themselves. Thus, lying to themselves.
  Apparently, that is because your purpose wasn't established by you, but from another source.
  I have faith in you that sooner or later you will get it right.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have faith in you that sooner or later you will get it right.
  ======
  
  thanks for your faith.
  
  ----
  
  The point that you seem to be missing, is that your faith in that which You "KNOW", is no different than that which a believer thinks that they know.
  
  The things which we think that we know seem to be changing all the time, when in reality it is what we "think" of these things which change.
  
  SOoo in reality ; as we think it is ... It is, and we know this.
  
  SOoo if you would agree with me, we would both be correct.
  Or the other way around.
  our refusl to do so is what caused all the conflict in the world.
  
  Whether this is true in your concept or not ... this is what I know; or do I only think that I know? ???
  Ya know?
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that religion is merely a reflection of the human condition. The only niggle is those with the god complex. The rest of us have no problem agreeing that we each have a mote in our eye. They need to learn to concede this point. Once that happens, humanity has made incredible progress.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
The O.P. here was about the big bad Christian centurian warriors breaking down the doors of personal freedom of choice. But beneath that messege was their saying essentially 'you have no right to SPEAK to me of religion' , hey you know what ? Christians have the same rights as the great forum riders of free speech ! Try to remember this ! You have a right to not listen ....! The great liberal intellectual minds at work again! You see its not politically correct to speak of your simple beliefs of faith . Its only acceptable to ride thhe train of P. C. of righteous opposition. These same people are the ones who will turn to God in a minute if they were in a fox hole! While fighting a war for the rights of some other religions freedoms. Oh sorry ....I forgot , they don't believe in fighting wars!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This makes not a lick of sense.
  Not when it invades my life and my rights to live my life.
  Really, can you stop yourself from hearing something? Try it, see what happens. You may ignore it, but you still hear it. Your ears are always wide open to ALL sounds.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
SOooo does it matter what you and/or I blame our inadequacies upon?

If not one thing, then another.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Jerami, it matters. It shows whether or not, one is being honest with themselves or dishonest.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think it matters what we blame something on!
  
  It will always be false.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, if you blame yourself for an action you take, then that would be false? Hmmm...doesn't make sense.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cagsil you must live next to the rectory or something are they always knocking on your door or what. Rather han listen shut off the TV evangelicals , send the mormons away from your door! Where is it so bad that you just can't take anymore without trumpeting your spittle of hatred? Come on fess up , its that old guilt thing from the Catholics eating at your insides , right ?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, what in the world would that have to do with the topic at hand? More distraction. Good show on you.
  Actually, I don't get visits from such people.
  It's not hatred and once again, quit making this out about ME. All you are doing is attempting to distract from the topic.
  Actually, again you would be incorrect. And yet again, good show in attempting to make this out to be about me. Move on already.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, you shoulda run for Pope.
  
  You got what it takes to be a good one.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No thank you, but thank you.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have to agree. Someone who spends every hour of the day touting against Christianity has an obsession. It is obviously a deep seeded hatred.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, you continue to make it about me, as a person. Try to look at the larger picture. If you seem to think that I am projecting hatred, then a psychologist would say that you are seeing a reflection of yourself. Just a thought.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not really dude. I noticed that over the last twenty four hours you have posted about 70 times in the religion forums. I'm thinking the psychiatrist would agree with me.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, how many times I have posted to the forum is irrelevant. I am responding to other posts, which would be the reason for the number of posts I have made. And, a psychologists would take that into account and includes reading all the other posts, which continue to distract from the topic.
  
  So get real.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
And it's another cheerful day in the forums. Oh, my!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're most famous picture. How nice of you to dig it up for this forum.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I have decided to found a new religion.

Church of the Wiener Dog
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess veggies would be pretty safe from you and your teachings?
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago

My first sermon will be tomorrow. I hope everyone likes my new haircut.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now there's a face you can't ignore!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Spike for president
  
  Aww hes adorable ,I want him!
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've decided that I'm going to dedicate my first sermon to Cags. I know that he will like it. I've also decided that Cags thread is worthy of having an advance copy posted, so here it is:
  
  Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
  My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
  Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
  So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
  
  Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
  Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
  I wait for delivery each day until three,
  So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
  
  Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
  I'm counting on you, Lord, please don't let me down.
  Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
  Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
  
  Everybody!
  Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
  My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
  Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
  So oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like my former mother in law
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Well, I now have “Religion destroying humanity!” repeated on my profile page 6 times. And the word “God” 12 times. I wonder how google will digest that?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think it helps!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It might draw the wrong kind of attention.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Yep, I'm going to have to fix that. Farewell, oh illustrious thread.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
But then , thats what all of this is about isn't it , your score ! Paradigm is about right ; Oh lord woncha do something . they need it soo! Cags , Earnest! and the needs of soo offended self righteous.........
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! You have trouble staying on topic, huh?
  Self righteous? You're the religious and the only one, and the likes of you, who can be righteous in any manner. That's not the goal of this thread and only foolishness would think it.
  
  Again, quit making this anything but what the topic(OP) is about. Continuing to try to distract isn't going to work. You will be called out on it.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I could understand what you are on about, you seem to have skipped a cog somewhere.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Religion destroying humanity!

It is a wrong notion; the trutful religion serves humanity.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Paar,
  
  As long as that religion is called "living life", then maybe I would agree, however, since I know you and what you've posted, you're going to include a god for some reason. And, life doesn't actually need one.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
The O P says it all guys , you sound like professional B.S. artists , you are christian but sick of christianity......You aren't atheists but constantly dis the believer . ....Sound a little contradictory. If we go back through all the forum history we'd see the same ole' broken down lines. If you dont like the discourse of spirituality that you create ,get off the train!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..But its more fun on the train ,and lonely sitting on the tracks
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, by ahorseback statement, I don't ride the train, considering the statement was false. Goes to show how well you listen, read or learn.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I listen well and observe a great deal ,it is not wise for you to imply otherwise.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why not, when you own actions go against what you claim to say about yourself. Good show again.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, you do realize that the whole point of Christianity is to diss other beliefs? Why should Christians expect to be allowed to, and then cry foul when the 'courtesy' is returned?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey ahorseback, I am of NO religion. I said I was born and raised Catholic. I am presently 43 years old. So, I am not Christian, but you are right on one account, I am sick of Christians and Christianity, because both breed intolerance and ignorance.
  And, you would be an indoctrinated spoiled brat.
  Be my guest and go back through the forum history. I have made enough posts(more than any person who ever existed on HP) that you could gather lots of things. But, I am sure the one thing you will over look is the rationality and TRUTH in my words. You're more likely to pick out the "hatred" you see said by others, but fail to look in the mirror at yourself? I wonder why that is? Actually, I do know why that is, but do you know why that is? Probably not.
  Spirituality is the hoax Ahorseback. It doesn't actually exist. It's been determined decades ago that "spirituality" is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty of the individual. But, nice try though.
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crystiffposted 13 years ago
The whole point of religion is to separate people not only Christianity alone.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
Cagsil , I am not religious in the preformed and packaged sense either . However I have never met such hatred of christanity as perhaps here in the forums , and it is the same ones constantly crying foul ball and then ranting on with an undisguised ferver , and hey if you want to lead the charge then go for it , the direct hit of the O.P. is yours ! Remember . Don't be a cry baby when you can't win the P.C. Bulls--t.
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
And Earnest and Cagsil, the only reason I responded to the O.P at all is to inform you that if you can't just say NO , when "they" knock on your guilty concience door . Then don't open it . It seems to me that if I were an atheist , nothing anyone says about THIER beliefs would effect or bother me in the least . But you created the dialog here . Now you want me to shut down my oppinion! ......Typical facism. But then hey I'm not one of the P.C. boys!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Guilty conscience? Talk about sad attempts to mock others. Great character you're showing off ahorseback. Why don't you go learn something.
  Atheist? Who is an Atheist. Damn, you really don't pay attention do you? You selectively read what you want and ignore the rest. I call that chosen ignorance.
  Yes, I did to inform people that they were morally wrong in action, which you have done nothing to prove wrong. I'm so proud of you....nothing but distraction and complaining in defense of your belief. Like I said, keep it out of other people's life. Or are you too hard headed to understand those simple words?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Another personal comment of no substance.
  All that happens here is that people are using forums to flog their religious beliefs as fact.
  
  Some of us care about that, others pretend to be rational about a god while denying hundreds of other gods, and try to ram this concept down peoples throats.
  I won't be rolling over on that any time soon, and nor should any other person with morals.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Earnest
  
  ..But dont ya think its reasonable for religious conversation to be the topic on any religious type thread?
  
  Bit like saying well Im in an automative shop and theres no perfume counter
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's funny.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol ,hey now theres a thought huh ,there should be magazines and perfume !!
  
  Reckon they are trying to indoctrinate me and sway me over with the smell of grease an rubber.
  
  Hmmm..
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As you can see, I don't tolerate abuse, overt or covert. Simple.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have you been abused by the religious?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Discussing religion is fine, using it as a way of saying one religion out of thousands is total truth is another matter altogether, and using it to threaten others by proxy is megalomania. Clear enough?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Threats,insults and condenscending childish remarks are not unfamiliar on this forum and come from both sides of the fence,so sure I am very clear about what you mean!
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
It isn't me that takes it all personal when someone calls you out ! Nor will I . once more , The O.P. states that "Religion is destroying humanity!" That is your opinion ! Mine is that ,simply , If it bothers you that "they " think that you too should "believe " then don't respond to them, Don't listen to them and don't believe them! Simple. But thats not what you do is it ? No , You make the statement that "Regigion is destroying humanity" thats when you not only offend a believer but everyone else with any common sense. It is such hatered spewed by statements like that create friction in general! I called you guys out Cags ! Get over it , don't blow a gasket!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again you show you don't know how to read. WOW!
  When people over step their individual authority and step into someone's life, this is a morally wrong action. Thus, it's infringement of the other person's rights. This is what religious and religion type people do. Everytime they open their mouth.
  And yet again, you lack reading comprehension. WOW!
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  ahorsebackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What exactly is the overstepping , freedom of speech ?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Free speech does have limits you know?
  
  It isn't your place to tell someone that they are living their life wrong, because they don't live by your beliefs. It's morally wrong in action. What part are you not understanding?
  
  If you say something to someone and then they commit suicide, you're responsible. Do you think you could live with that on your conscience? Aside from going to prison, because you'll be held accountable by law.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But wait a minute Cags -You have told me on several occasions how I am wrong! ,ignorant ,or unintelligent!
  
  (Probably missed out other delightful compliments) but you get my drift.)
  
  Those are double standards form where I am sitting.
  
  Do you think you have that right?
  
  I dont.
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  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My favorite is when he tells me I lack understanding.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Cags ,I actually agree with you here.
  The power of the 'tongue' is a very powerful weapon.
  
  It alone has to power to build up or tear down.
  
  Accountability along with integrity especially, are values I admire and try to balance my thinking on.
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  ahorsebackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh and reading comprehension ? Its not me that has forgotten the title of the O.P. And ....you wrote it man! Peace!
  reply report
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, insulting people's intelligence because they disagree with you. Classy.
  reply report
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback, you rock
  reply report

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