Why do non-Believers (i.e. atheists) call upon God and Christ Jesus; when they faced with tragedy?
They don't. This is just the uneducated wishing it were so to give some semblance of credibility to their nonsense beliefs..
Why is that you make the reference "uneducated" in your reply? How do you know how "uneducated" or "educated" a person is?
I use uneducated because it is rude to say stupid. The majority of religious posters demonstrate their mental abilities by their inability to spell, how they mis-use grammar, the hilarious misuse of incorrect words in inappropriate places, and the most compelling evidence is their inability to reason.
If a fundamentalist cannot write lucid sentences then they are also unable to read lucidly. This means by definition that they are getting their information from someone else and their understanding of what they say clearly demonstrates that they are not in command of their own thoughts.
Interesting, for many of God prophets were and are not those of learned mines. The attitude you assume has been adapted from the reasoning of man of the world. It is not how words are written/formatted but the wisdom from God which gives it's purpose of thought. Remember: All that is said and performed by God is always in complete contrast to the wisdom of man, those belonging to the evil pleasures of this world. Man hides behind this reasoning, which was inherited from the sins of Adam and Eve. The man belonging to the world, carry a 90% rule of character, having only 10% standing truth. The first 30% is the covering (the manipulated barrier) the total lie, it is the behavior taught and manifested from early beginnings; the behavior used as a greeting to others, the first impression (the sin of manipulation). This covering is taught to foster honor from man of the world. The second 30% is the layer behind the covering; it is the imaginary substance (The costume). This covering (disguise) is determined by the evil spirit that dominates the soul of that man. This covering hides the thoughts and intentions of that desired; this 30% will betray, lie, steal, abandon and perform all that is needed for self-worth and indulgence, this part of that man carries no conscience and awareness, it is the imaginary self, caring only of what is desired for self, often to cause great confusion and discord against others because it is (the pretender). The part taught and developed by the wisdom of the world to foster things of self-gratification (The sin of deceit). Man belonging to the world gives tribute and awarded honor toward these disguised behaviors, the greater honor is awarded by competitive performance, in-turn, mass confusion and anarchy against another is demonstrated, causing multitudes to separate from the Living God and the damnation of many souls. The final 30%, it is the trash, all the things being undesirable to the acceptance of the world; containing all that is undesired (The unseen, the unwanted) including the will of God (The sin of betrayal). The 10% is the only truth; being the light of God (His Spirit) smothered beneath all the coverings and trash, his light quenched from the sins, therefore, the absence of the Holy Spirit. This 90% rule of character is the behavior taught and fostered to wear by the men of no honor; this is the wisdom of the world understanding to becoming culturally developed through the manipulated strategy of Satan and the off-spring of Babylon whom are the temporary masters and guardians over the world. They are men ashamed; the disguises (the layer of clothing) represent their captivity of enslavement. The clothing (disguise) becomes their barrier of enslavement from sin (the covering of shame). It is the behavior practiced by those not belonging to God. You are correct in that "they are not in command of their own thoughts" for man has no ability to reason; his reasoning comes from God or the evil ruling spirits whom temperarly govern the actions of many men. The Holy Spirit says: listen much and speak little. The man having wisdom of God is able to think outside the box. He sees the unseen not that which is said to be so.
Recommed1, you're foolish; but, the sad thing about it; you don't know how foolish you are. Are you educated?
Recommed1, what is the highest-level of your education. 5th or 6th grade??
Do they? I don't think the atheists pray to Jesus; human beings should pray to the Creator God; and Jesus was neither a god nor son of God. Jesus was a son of Mary and Mary did not have a husband named god or having attributes of a god.
The question is what do you care?
Secondly, when those specific people are faced with tragedy? It wouldn't be nor should it be assumed they do what you claim.
Yes, there have been some death-bed changes in people's views. This is fear based and nothing more. And, don't think for a second that it's fear of a god, but fear of death. And, not all do it.
Perhaps, you need to ask why believers bother calling upon God and Jesus Christ when faced with tragedy when the tragedy happens regardless?
I've often wondered that same thing. Personally I view praying as the same thing as wishing and hoping so when faced with a tragedy people (believers and non) become so fearful that they will most likely wish/hope/pray to anything for a positive outcome.
Maybe it's just socialization, an anguished cry they've heard time and again.
We humans are affected in so many ways by what happens to us and around us ,sometimes our convictions fly in the face of those.
I'm thinking ,though,that even non-believers know that there must have been some first mover or some intervener.
Really, life is too complicated to be random!
Desperation. Spirituality is a innate functionality of the brain. Therefore it is tied in to non-voluntary reflexes. Atheism is a function of voluntary reflexes (thinking).
When faced with tragedy humans will reach for anything and everything they can that might stop the tragic events. Including a God concept they don't truly believe in.
JEEESUS CHRIIIIST!!!, I would certainly never be quilty of such a thing.
Really....? It means they are not atheist totally..! They still believe in God but they are reluctant to admit it..!
hhh fuuny ,,,!
but beliefs is e very deep espacially in abarahamique religions
e lot s of ppl could claim that thy are againste religion but thy dont belief but when seom think happens thy return
it happens i saw it too
The simple answer is, They dont.
If someone calls on god, then they are not an atheist are they? Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. If someone calls on god, then they must believe a god exists.
Perhaps kmackey32 the assumption is based on all those atheists worldwide that the OP has spoke to in the midst of tragedy.
One thing which IMO is important to remember is that there are many people on these forums who are using English as a second language. It's difficult, sometimes, for them to elucidate their comment as clearly as could be possible. We must read a little between the lines and when in doubt, ask for clarity rather than offer sarcasm.
Narrowmindedness is more abhorrent, especially in a debate/discussion forum, than other indiscretions. We are here to learn from each other, to edify if possible and to avoid sarcasm, the verbal tearing of the flesh.
As an atheist, I do find myself in times of despair, asking a god for help. As a West European, my idea of God is of the Christian one, although I have no reason to assume one god has more chance of existing than another. It is instinct, mixed with cultural indoctrination, that makes me turn to a god I don't believe in, when I am feeling powerless. It is only natural, that we should want to have control over our lives, but if we are faced with the death of a loved one, or with some illness, which we fear, we realise that there is nothing we can do about it. We therefore look outside of ourselves for help. It is something mankind has done for thousands of years and it is innate within us. Logic, tells me, that there is no one there to answer my prayers, but this doesn't stop me saying them nevertheless.
Because when tragedy hits, we want to find someone powerful to rely on and even atheists, in their unconsciousness, know that GOD is the most powerful of all
It's funny when believers drag others down to their level of nonsense.
Troubled Man, you're a trouble man. I'll be praying for you!!!
Rather than praying to feed the hungry? Got your priorities straight?
I tell you what. You pray for me, and I'll think for you when things get complicated.
I don't believe it is the case that atheists "know" that God is the most powerful. The whole point of being an atheist, is that you don't believe in God. However, as a result of previous religious beliefs, or cultural indoctrination, added to the seeming innate human need to look outside of ourselves for meaning, even atheists, may sometimes find themselves acting in a way contrary to their belief. This is as a result of desperation, rather than any real belief.
That has to be one of the biggest statements of rationalization I've ever seen. Your own irrational belief (not knowledge) is weakened by what little ability to think is left, so you will ascribe your own desires and fears to everyone around you. This then lets you also ascribe the same irrational beliefs to everyone else (with absolutely no evidence to back it up) and thus bolster your own beliefs as everybody has them. Rationalizing your irrational belief system carried to the extreme.
There used to be a plethora of gods upon which to plead with. The effect was the same though.
A better question is: Why do many of the fundies on these forums use an alias if they are so proud of their faith? What are they so frightened of, especially if they have no hubs to be judged or commented on? I'd figure they would be proud to be known as publicly witnessing for JC.
I don't think it is only the religious who are using an alias. I as an atheist, always use one, because there is a lot of identity theft happening as a result of people using their real names and photographs of themselves online.
But you don't have a god to protect you while you speak in his name. The fundies are supposed to have faith in their god's protection while they are spreading the good word.
Like who? I'm a, "fundie," and more grateful than proud.
There is no use calling Jesus for help; he was not a god or son of god.
It is however very natural to seek help from the ONE Creator God; everybody is open to call to Him when in trouble.
Jesus himself called the Creator God; worshipped and prayer to Him addressing Him as his Father. Jesus was not his own father.
According to Christian doctrine, Jesus was his own father - or put another way, one and the same as the father. He put himself in the position of human to show humans how to live. I'm just offering the other side of the debate.
I know with some exroman catholics they do it because really they are cursing the church, which they hate because of the abuse they suffered by thier filthy hands ( You would not believe the stories some of them tell me)
With others it is just a saying,nothing more.
When someone says to me "Oh my God." I ask "What's His name?" Thye dumb stupid look on their face is hillarious.
I call upon God in bothe the good times and bad. Yes, Jehovah is real. Yes Jesus really existed.
People who refuse to believe that do so because they do not want to surrender their lives to anyone or anything else
Very few people act normally when faced with extreme levels of stress. A man who is against the death penalty most likely would kill his daughter's rapist with his bare hands. People, knowiong they could not fly, leaped from the World Trade Center instead of staying in the building to burn to death. They made what appeared to be an irrational decision because of the stress. The decisions made at the point of imminent death or pain from the loss of a loved one is a psychological matter and is not relevant for an argument about the existence for or against God.
I have heard atheists speak with such venom against God and others so unwilling to speak about God that I know that they really believe in God deep down. That is why I heard one even singing a religious song that had the words "with God as our Father" and another wishing that he had a girlfriend "with the fear of God in her" since his previous one stole his money. It is not God that does not exist. It is atheists that do not exist.
You probably don't know any true non-believers.
So do you believe that any of the other Gods exists, just as you believe yours exists?
I would hate to think that there are Gods out there that you don't believe in...thereby making you a non-believer.
shelpeare, the fact that someone sings a song which is about God does not mean that they believe in that god. I guess, that as a Christian, you celebrate Christmas and Easter, even though these festivals are actually pagan in origin, not Christian. Yet, I am sure that you do not consider yourself a pagan because of this.
I actually wrote a hub about this, yet I cannot publish it because Brighthub have the article. Long story. I'll post the link if you are interested.
Yes, post a link. I think some Christians would be very surprised to realise how much of their religion has pagan origins.
Possibly, but those of us who know the history know that it's much more the other way around.
Christmas was originally a pagan holiday that was specifically co-opted by the early church fathers to get people thinking about Jesus. The results have been mixed.
Easter is NOT (and let me repeat NOT) of pagan origins. The timing of it near passover and the celebration of the resurrection of Our Lord, Jesus, has no root in pagan history. As Christianity moved into pagan cultures, people did what people do, mix in the symbols they were comfortable with from their pagan hertility festivals, thinking they were similar. Then we get to the 20th Century, and the ultimate pagan marketing machine kicks into high gear. But the true roots of Easter have no real parallel in pagan religions and are specifically Jewish and Christian.
Have you ever wondered where the word "Easter" originates, or why it doesn't appear in the Bible? It stems from the Anglo-Saxon Eastre or Eostre, which came from Eosture-monath (Easter Month) a month, of the Germanic calendar, we now refer to as April, and named after the goddess Eostre. The celebrations surrounded the sping equinox. The symbol of the goddess was a hare or a rabbit, and people gave each other eggs to symbolise the re-birth of the new year. Because of its pagan origins, some Christians prefer to use the term "Resurrection Sunday" to refer to the annual remembrance of Christ's resurrection.
All of which not only fails to contradict but actually supports everything I've written. Thank you.
OK, I get it. You must be a Christian, because they are experts at ignoring contradictions. The fact that the very word "Easter" is of pagan origin, named after a pagan goddess, proves to you that Easter has nothing to do with paganism. OK, I'll run with that.
Eostre, I wrote an article about this for Brighthub. Gets loads of views, not.
Please don't even walk with it. Yes, I'm a Christian, but "The fact that the very word "Easter" is of pagan origin, named after a pagan goddess, proves to you that Easter has nothing to do with paganism. " does not automatically follow.
I thought my faith was a little more obvious than that.
What I was saying was that as Christianity moved into paganized areas (instead of Judaized areas) that people started mixing in pagan symbology because they were comfortable with it. Much like the animism that many native peoples mixed in with Catholocism (I'm not Catholic but this is not the place to discuss paganism in Cathology.)
The actual roots of the Easter (and no, the word does not appear in the Bible,) are specifically Christian. People have layered paganism onto it, yes, and marketing companies find cute little bunnies and eggs (divorced from their original fertility symbolism) easier to market than the resurrected Christ. But the true origin of the day, whatever you call it, is Christian. That is what I meant. I complain as much as any preacher about the paganism that society practices.
Yes, we do, we are human and here. Where is your god again?
Wishful thinking. We could say the same thing about you and Allah, or you and Apollo, or Thor, or... the list goes on and on...
LOL! Good one. There are no atheists in foxholes?
Yes, God does protect us. Sometimes. But what he is doing over and above that is working out His will.
If you read the New Testament, you would see that we are promised that we will suffer a great deal if we really put our faith in Jesus. And for the early history of the faith, that's exactly what happened. Even today, anyone who really puts their faith in Him will get bashed just as hard inside the church as from without.
His word will be spread, but He doesn't give us lives of bliss and pleasure while it happens, no matter what Kenneth Copeland might say.
Good to know that such an insignificant speck of a thing as yourself 'knows' what god is doing and thinking old boy, I would not be so ignorant as to speak for another human being, let alone a supposedly omnipotent super being.
I'm not. I read the Bible. I simply am applying what God has already revealed about Himself and His will for us. Yes, He is omnipotent (as well as omniscient and omnipresent) and I am not, but He has not left us without a way to know Him. That's why I said "if you read the New Testament," you will find a history of people suffering for the name of Christ (Paul and Stephen jump straight to mind.)
His ways are not our ways.
And even today, many missionaries both native and foreign who proclaim the name of Christ suffer for it. Look up Asia Bibi and Yousef Nadarhkani.
I think it's at least a 2 part answer. One is cultural. People still hear the gospel and about God as THE supreme being, so they probably echo the sentiment even if they never really gave it any thought.
But the more important aspect is that hearing about God reminds them of what they inherently know: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse..." (Romans 1:20).
I never have and I have been faced with life and death situations.
If I have used the words, they have been used as just words. This would likely be true for many atheists. Some expressions are just part of a societal or cultural lexicon and don't actually mean anything.
It would be like saying that if someone uses the phrase "son of a b__tch!", to express surprise or frustration, that they actually expect the progeny of a female dog or nasty woman to materialize or have something to do with the problem at hand. Or if someone says "holy sh_t", that divine fecal matter should somehow actually be be part of the reaction to the situation that prompts the expression.
There is no deep-seated, but repressed or denied belief in the magical problem-solving power of inviting someone to copulate with themselves when saying " go eff yourself." No one thinks the recipient of the invitation will actually go do it because the words are said, nor do they expect that their real meaning to be rude and dismissive will be misinterpreted as an actual suggestion to pleasure themselves.
WOW. It's been interesting to read these responses. Some religious people here actually believe -- and believe they are qualified to make the assumption -- that atheists are actually 'believers' who just deny god in their day to day lives, but will call upon that god because they know somewhere deep down that god exists.
You are wrong.
Atheism means "lack of belief in god". This means the belief does not exist. in any circumstance. If someone believes in god in some circumstances, they are not atheists. That's different.
But people like myself who really ARE atheist (without belief in a god or gods) do not believe in a god or god. Not under any circumstance. The belief isn't there. It's not conditional and it's not just a repressed denial. Why is that so hard to accept?
Because they know deep down inside of them that there is only One True God and His name is Jesus Christ, God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They know that their god whom they serve is not going to deliver or come to their aid but they do know that God will.
We all face troubles in life none of us are exempted...
People are calling GOD only after realizing that some thing is beyond their control .
Christian may called JESUS.
If I was in an accident and all my being depended on my mom, more than likely, I will say, "mom, help me!" without worrying who believed I was immature.
I believe, by observation, that we all know our limitations as people and when an overwhelming situation comes we turn to that which has given us comfort... smoking, drinking, another person, God.
Maybe some atheists have found comfort in God in their silent lives, but when tragedy strikes their truth comes out, but this is only a theory. I wouldn't want the burden of judging every person just so I can feel comfortable with my choices.
Recommed1, you sound like a true Intellectual. What is the highest level of your education???
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