The truth about god
See how easy that was to show fallacies at work in your posts.
janesix was pointing our YOUR fallacy. Funny that you agree.
Of course, the burden of proof is on the claimants of believers for the existence of the Great Green Arkleseizure and no one else. Simple really.
There you go with fallacies again. Shouldn't they be proving the existence of the Great Green Arkeseizure?
Lack of evidence doesn't constitute proof for something, either.
If you can imagine God to be real, I can imagine the Great Green Arkeseizure to be real, or an invisible purple rhinoceros. Neither one of us has a shred of evidence to support our beliefs.
And, it would be fallacious for either of us to embrace those beliefs just because science has not disproved them.Really? I would have never imagined that reading posts here.
It is also why your beliefs are irrational and illogical.
Look up the word evidence, too.
Tell you what Troubled, let's debate at debate.org. You're so confident in my usage of logical fallacies and your own logical prowess, let's debate over there and let the community decide who makes the better arguments.
Appeal to Popularity Fallacy
Appeal to Authority Fallacy
Bandwagon FallacyNo.
Appeal to Popularity is a claim accepted as being true because most people are inclined to believe it true, while the Bandwagon is a threat of rejection by peer pressure being substituted for evidence in an argument.
That has got to be the stupidest thing I've hear yet. Because we as humans can't prove something it doesn't exist? That is rich.
I guess electricity or the atom did not exist 1000 years ago. Dumb logic isn't it. Things exist whether we know it or not. Funny how humans think so highly of ourselves in this corner of the universe.
If there are people who agree with you...then the more power to ya! I am talking about a very fundimental thing...the existance of A Supreme
Being. That is what people are talking about. Try starting a thread about your "great green arkleseizure" and see who's talking then.
kill.. an act of unintentional death at the hands of another
murder.. an act of INtentional death at the hands of another
I guess shooting a deer on purpose with intent to end its life is murdering a deer. Having an axe head fly off the axe handle and hitting buddy in the head resulting in his death is killing or as we call it today, manslaughter.
unintentional shooting of a deer is deerslaughter Intentional shooting of a deer is deermurder.
The word kill in "thou shalt not kill" should be translated murder as in thou shalt not murder.
Obviously the Hebrews killed animals for sacrifice.
hows that LL
We already have a uniform understanding, it's called reality.
like everyone's reality is uniform
you're just makin this stuff up with that lame and ridiculous claim.
Stop pullin the wool, man!
I don't know why you are so compelled to make up this kind of nonsense.
hugs
- brotheryochananposted 12 years ago
0No, what I'm saying is that you made that up, like you do so many other things.
You're the one with the ridiculous claims about archeology, not me.
"archeology has revealed what the bible has claimed thousands of times."
But...to say that miracles happened would be to actually believe the account of the Bible that a miracle happened, in which you would be asserting the truth of what you're debating, which is that the Bible is true.
Like I also say, if one does not believe in miracles then they cannot believe in the bible. So what's the point of discussing it - Its like telling someone Einstein was a great mathematician when they don't believe in e=mc2 - unless the person, in this case, who doesn't believe in e=mc2 is open to the possibility of being convinced.
And to say that God is there whenever miracles are present (assuming God’s grace upon the act), would also be to assume the validity of the words of a being whose existence we are debating: and to after that deduce that these words (that “God is on the scene” when miracles occur) prove God’s presence on the scene. But…anyone could claim to be existent on the scene when miracles are there…
I don't believe that others do the same miracles. Sure moses threw down a rod and it became a snake and so did the egyptians and they did some pretty incredible things and yet they failed after the third plagues to equal God. Jesus miracles, with maybe the exception of water to wine were healings, calming stormy waters so that a few might not drown, Jesus miracles were miracles of mercy. We know that some islam youngster had these amazing appearing and disappearing tattoos that spelt out part of the koran on her arm, but are these the types of miracles that God would do? Are these miracles of mercy? or just for show? The bleeding statues of Mary are these miracles of mercy or show? When appolonius of tyre was doing his magician tricks did he ascribe the works to God or was he out to get a cushy richy to hire him as court magi? Signs and wonders do happen but the signs and wonders God does are in a different category and of a different quality.
In a nutshell…God claims that when miracles occur, he is on the scene. Therefore, when miracles occur, you understand that God is involved. That’s simply taking God’s word on it...
Its my continuous experience that Gods word is always true.
And yes, according to the Biblical account, Moses’ snake ate up all the other snakes, but the point is: they still performed a miracle—regardless of whose miracle ate whose.
I have to wonder if the miracles were really miracles that the egyptians did. I read somewhere that the egyptians hypnotized and or drugged their snakes which they carried around and they were stiff like rods and this was not a common event but only at certain times. The egyptians produced red water off the back of God already turning the water red. Perhaps they just dug another hole and said "look this is read too".
about the antichrist
Here are all the scriptures containing antichrist:
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [/i]
(when did we hear about antichrist. There is no prior mention of antichrist in the NT? except that there will those who seek to deceive and turn people from the truth)
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit (attitude) of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (it not he)
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Anti (against) Christ (messiah) is already defined and it is not a singular person. [/i]
However, even if it were true that miracles DID occur and that the events of the Bible really did happen in a historical context, is that adequate information to prove the infallibility of it in ALL accounts?
I believe it is, at least, if it proves correct in many areas, about many things, then we have to give benefit of doubt to those areas not proven yet. We cannot pack up and go home because we do not have all the answers. There are no areas of investigation that merely quit because of an unsolved aspect. And no institutions of investigation dissolve because somebody has denied something that hasn't been proven yet.
Just because something is correct on one or maybe even two accounts…does that make the totality of it accurate?
In other words, we have an analogical method. 'If the analogy of two phenomena be very close and striking, while, at the same time, the cause of one is very obvious, it becomes scarcely possible to refuse to admit the action of an analogous cause in the other, though not so obvious in itself'. If we can believe, "in the beginning God created the heaven and earth", then we should be able to believe that Jesus turned water into wine. If one prediction about a nation comes true, indeed if several, then we must with some guarantee, expect another to also come true. If there is a predictive prophecy about a messiah who will take away the sins of the world in the bible, we ought to be on the look out for him.
In this case the divinity of Jesus? It might make it an extremely interesting and even supernatural type of book in some regard; but even if that were agreed upon to be true, does this mean that all of it is necessarily accurate;
If the deity of jesus were true and his events were dictated by faithful followers, who laid their lives down for what they believed in a supernatural historical book, we would have to look to God and think that he is not so small that accuracy would be a problem to Him.
it was not written by the same person or at the same time. Therefore, was this supernatural element true of all parts, or just some, etc?
If the bible had been written by one person we could clearly call foul, except that it was 2,000 yrs in the making. lol, BUT there are 30 authors in the OT, 10 in the NT over a period of 2,000 years that in itself makes the books remarkable. Here we have history defining itself, purporting doctrines that are coherent. I think there is remarkable supernatural element in all the biblios (many books), bible. Even when in exile and living in a strange land captive, the word of the Lord still comes through prophetic and clear, time and time again, hitting the nail on the head continuously, so i think that many authors just reinforces a supernatural quality.
There have been other writings, predictions, and books which have accurately and stunningly predicted historical events:
This is not necessarily true. Many other prophetic writings are vague and of much less precise caliber than the bible. For instance, Cyrus, kind of persia is mentioned by name 150 yrs before his birth!
'The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile'.
Nowhere has any prediction written come so close.
Jeanne dixon is well known BUT:
she has a number of false predictions:
that red china would plunge the world into war over Quemoy and Matsu in 1958; That WW3 would begin in 1954; that Castro would b banished from Cuba in 1970; Jaqueline Kennedy would not remarry.
Nostradamus predictions are exceptionally blurry:
'Followers of sects, great troubles are in store for the Messengers, A beast upon the theater prepares the scenical play. The invention of that wicked feat will be famous. By sects the world will be confused and divided... Beasts mad with hunger will swim across rivers. Most of the army will be against the Lower Danube [hister seru]. The great one shall be dragged in an iron cage when the child brother will observe nothing'.
and
"From the enslaved populace, songs,
Chants and demands
While princes and lords are held captive in prisons.
These will in the future by headless idiots
Be received as divine prayers".
The bible says that all prophecies will come true by God and that the evidence against a false prophet are those prophecies that do not come true.
some of which include the Quran,
And the Sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Surah Ya Sin, 38)
The Sun has been emitting heat for around 5 billion years as a result of the constant chemical reactions taking place on its surface. At a moment determined by Allah in the future, these reactions will eventually come to an end, and the Sun will lose all its energy and finally go out. In that context, the above verse may be a reference to the Sun's energy one day coming to an end.
There are no prophecies in the Quran.
Thanks for your questions. I tried to be brief Thanks for the reply
I can't see that I agree with your conclusions, but I guess that's fair.
I want to discuss further a couple of things that you said, to clarify:
Ok here goes: I’ll try to make this as unconfusing as possible
My statement about the miracles concerned only those in the Bible. I was not questioning the validity of miracles themselves; I was making the point that asserting that Jesus was a divine and godly man because of his performance of miracles would still make it necessary that the person FIRST believe the Bible. If so, then miracles would prove things to someone only if they already believed the Bible. (Sorry if I misunderstood. I got a little confused by your analogy so I thought there must have been a miscommunication.)
Also concerning miracles, would it really matter what type of miracles are performed? The simple fact that miracles are performed would be significant. Would whether or not someone considers them of mercy make any difference in proving the point that the Bible is indeed accurate? Unless what you’re saying is that it is the merciful nature of those miracles is what causes it to be consistent with God. But even so…all that proves is that the Bible is reaffirming itself. If you don’t already believe the Bible, wouldn’t it be somewhat irrelevant? And on the flip side, the Egyptians would not have considered those to be merciful miracles. And again, it still brings us back to the problem that believing this miracles actually occurded is attesting that the Bible is true in its account of those miracles and is profitable only towards those who believe in its accuracy already…
Concerning the Bible’s accuracy on one or two points as making it reliable to be correct on all points: I think that a book’s accuracy on one subject would indeed at least cause us to take into consideration the possibility of its being correct on all counts: but that’s as far as we can get. It’s a possibility. There are many books which are available and have accurate pieces of information in them, as well as false information, in today’s society. You separated my statements about it, but I kind of meant for them to all be put together. I should have arranged them more clearly. The Bible’s accuracy about the divinity of Jesus in light of its accuracy in other things. Even if It predicted certain things accurately, would it necessarily mean that, several books later, and 2000 years later, it is still predicting accurately? That’s why I brought up the subject of multiple authors: how do we know that one author, should he be correct, is also just as correct and Biblically inspired as the other? I was discussing In other words, just because the Bible is accurate in some things would not make it accurate in ALL things necessarily, unless all authors were without fault when they wrote it. You would have to have the assumption that the Bible was God-inspired…and then we’re back to square one, assuming the truth of what we’re debating.
As far as other prophecies not being as clear as the Bible, I think that would be more of a subjective opinion…not all would hold that opinion. Some would esteem the prophecies of other individuals, etc. as being worth our examination. As for the Quran, I think there are more passages which make prophetic predictions: I personally have not read much of the Quran; however I was engaged to a Muslim for two years and he explained to me the prophetic predictions of the Quran and how they were fulfilled. So wouldn’t the opinion on the significance of the prophecy depends on whether or not the person is inclined to believe them…
As far as taking God’s word on it…I know it’s enough for you, but…it wouldn’t be, for someone who is trying to know why or if they should believe the Bible…
Anywho, those are my thoughts. I hope I understood yours correctly…thanks for the discussion i wondered what that was.
I like the smileys
I see we have a belief issue to overcome and that would be laborious indeed for me to explain just half the reasons i believe the bible to be well worth trusting in.
As to your experience with a muslim fellah for 2 yrs, although it is nearly impossible to diffuse someones personal experience, i have read many quran prophecies and they are very weak and not noteworthy at all, but that is just my personal experience. I think we should leave that there.
The miracles were a part of Jesus ministry. I tried to liken them to moses' ministry, both of these being covenant ministries - exceptional miracles were happening at these covenant times, and that's all i was saying about that. Why elijah had miracles or signs is another topic.
The Jesus of the bible is an amazing character. His divinity is plainly stated in Johns gospel, agreed with in the other gospels and letters, but one would have to believe in the biblical texts.
The egyptians would not have considered those merciful miracles but God would have and so would Gods people, because those miracles were designed to bring His people out of Egypt and that was a really merciful thing to do and God was showing mercy to his people and Jesus showed mercy to his people - the jewish nation.
I mentioned a book that is accurate in some parts may be given benefit of doubt to other parts because as i was typing that i was thinking "I did not come to Christ having all the answers first". I only had some answers and that prompted me to experience Christ and now i have so many more answers that the bible verifying itself is as good as a book on earthquakes verifying earthquakes and teaching me things about earthquakes that i previously did not know. A book about God really should verify God, i think.
When we look at the distance of time, 2,000 yrs between jesus and moses, 2,000 yrs between adam and moses. We cannot lose faith that the end times are near. With calendar aberrations and jubilee years, and being told that we will not know the time of arrival by our Lord, we cannot think God is late. So yes i believe that the bible is predicting accurately. I do not think 2,000+ yrs is a long time to wait. Those jewish people can be stubborn - i make funny
I really can't tell you what to do. I can tell you that before i became a christian i accepted persuasive evidence from the bible that its records are true. I entered into christianity by formal prayer acknowledging Jesus as my Lord asking forgiveness for my sins and since then its been a long wonderful experience. Since then, 3 yrs ago in may on the 13th if anyone wants to send me a cake I have learned so much more and i credit that to God working in (spite) of me
Its totally up to you if you ever decide to believe the bible. Just ask the God of your understanding to help you and He will help you. God reaches every sincere heart everywhere in the world because that is His job. And when God answers you, you will find Jesus.
hope that helped
ShalomOkie dokie, thanks for the clarification; I understand better what you meant now. I don't agree on everything necessarily, but at least I'm not conufsed as to what you meant now lol. Thanks for sharing
did you okie dokie me?
oh no you didn't (snap)
I hate writing
hahaha
every single little word can utterly change a meaning.LOL huh?? I was saying "okay," haha. geez
i know
There are others far more qualified than me to answer your questions.
Hit the books mr.
repetition proves botdom
- Cranfordjsposted 12 years ago0
Notice that it was YOU who did not answer any of my questions on my previous post here?
Interesting.
I have seen this and the person usually does that hand gesture cross thing and kisses a ring or something... if so... purely catholic and that person, in this instance is not praying to a god at all but to a patron saint.
Christians ought to realize and I think they do, the futility of praying for anything other than Gods blessing on the game and not the games outcome. To pray for gain, selfishly, is vanity and emanates from self.
But to pray that the other team win and you give them a good tussle for that win is , hugely christian. lol.
I find it interesting that you would claim to know what that persons prayer was for. Self/team interest or just a good game.
Or not?
Ya really do.
1.
a public officer authorized to hear and decide cases in a court of law; a magistrate charged with the administration of justice.
2.
a person appointed to decide in any competition, contest, or matter at issue; authorized arbiter: the judges of a beauty contest.
3.
a person qualified to pass a critical judgment: a good judge of horses.
4.
an administrative head of Israel in the period between the death of Joshua and the accession to the throne by Saul.
5.
(especially in rural areas) a county official with supervisory duties, often employed part-time or on an honorary basis.
verb (used with object)
6.
to pass legal judgment on; pass sentence on (a person): The court judged him guilty.
7.
to hear evidence or legal arguments in (a case) in order to pass judgment; adjudicate; try: The Supreme Court is judging that case.
8.
to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically: You can't judge a book by its cover.
9.
to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale.
10.
to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess: He judged her to be correct.
You said:
"judge: to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially : to form a negative opinion about <shouldn't judge him because of his accent>"
You still come up empty
I guess i better use your dictionary. Which one is that again?
Hope you're not feeling to badYour comprehension of English is bad.
It's getting sad now.
If you can't see how number 8 is the same definition as what I put down my opinion of your intellect has hit new lows.
I'd edit your post if you don't want to look foolish.
Did you even bother to read the definitions or just look for a verbatim copy?
I really feel bad, you try soooo hard.
Stick with the scripture your really good at that man.
You sound like you really know that stuff, don't trouble yourself with this English nonsense or even science or math.
You don't need that garbage you got the fish and babel and resurrections. So much cool stuff is in the bible you shouldn't burden yourself with this stuff buddy.
People go to school for a long time to be good at this stuff, some of us even went to college.
You get an A for trying from me
God bless.
sometimes i wonder why ask or statement something that already has the answer to in several ways. Its an opinion, bias, fact, fiction, true/false, and at the end of the day, 'mind over matter'
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