Sin Confessions: Through a Priest or directly to God?
Why do we need to confess our sins to a priest? Can't we do it directly to God? What's the difference?
Because priests are ordained, God is not.
It's a matter of authority and control, if you ask me. I don't believe in confessing to a priest. Why should I confess my sins to someone who is himself a sinner and needs God's grace just as much as I do (sometimes even more)? I prefer to confess my sins to the sinless Savior - Jesus Christ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Martin Luther was becoming a Gnostic Christian and the recognition that things were all between each of us and God alone is part of what prompted Martin Luther to split the church.
Unfortunately, instead of going Gnostic, his followers went further into fantasy, miracles and magic.
Regards
DLInteresting, someone mentioned this particular subject.
The 800lb gorilla in the room is that word confess.
There is no reason a person cannot vent their missteps to a priest or pastoral figure, a friend, stranger -and most certainly can go straight to the Source to express those things.
But, the word itself screams two sides: forgiveness and absolution.
What is it to confess? It is to release from festering, to expel all at once; cliched: "to spill the beans". Confession then is a flooding out of words, like one would vomit out poison or excessive foods, alcohols from the stomach, like one would do with bile, to the point where the body is actually in a strange, almost surreal state. Anyone who has ever hugged the porcelain throne, understands this. A sense of relief, as the body trembles from the effect of that expulsion.
Given the nature of the human spirit, which I reference as ruach, it is words projected outward, that define confession. A forward action. An action that could have some form of consequence and certainly creates the aforementioned shock-mode, where the mind is put on hold, while the heart and body squeeze out every last drop of goop. The body drawing in a series of deep, new breathes, inflating the lungs and super-charging the blood with oxygen-nitrogen. Once the trembling settles down, there is a new sense of peace, relief and comfort, perhaps. A understanding that the worst is over. And although the feeling to vomit is still there, a real calmness takes over, forcing the body and mind to be still.
Confession, they say, brings a person to the point of salvation. That also corresponds to ruach. This point of saving is likened to the previous events of expulsion, renewal, recovery. It almost forces the individual to either harbor that fess or expel it in its entirety. Of course the mind says the risk is far too great and could have dangerous effects.
Confession either engulfs forgiveness, else imposes absolution. The latter says "Okay, no consequence. Don't worry, even if one drowns themselves with more poison, they'll be fine. They know the feeling now, how to handle it, police it and hide from any effect." Forgiveness, on the other hand, demands consequence, even if the imposition is completely dissolved. The consequence to excessive indulgence or festering can be many things from physical illness, to depression, to fear and borderline schizophrenia {deluge, delusion, demonic ides, paranoia}. The ultimate consequence, of course, being death. It is said the action of confession reverses this effect, essentially releasing death from the individuals complete being. Words are the power we possess, for good or not....
James.We don't. It's unbiblical to think otherwise. We confess our sins to Jesus only.
That is really helpful to the one sinned against.
You talking to an imaginary sky daddy.
Grow up.
Ever hear of the word restitution?
Sin is between you and your victim. God nor Jesus cannot be hurt by anything you do and they do not have the right to forgive in your stead.
Try thinking further than your dogma.
Regards
DLAnd why, pray tell, to Jesus only?
Who died and made him G/god?He wasn't made God; He is God incarnate.
I don't know if there is any scripture that says one must pray to others but the Holy Spirit; Jesus and God being one.Straight to the point, there is no such thing as g/God incarnate. Never was, never will be. That is right out of paganism 101 and new age metaphysics/pseudoscience. The belief that g/Gods can come temporally in human form. Of course to understand why they came to those beliefs, humans need only return to the day they were created, for insight.
Y`shua himself said only to pray to the Creator, following Rule #1.
Praying to Y`shua does not result in anything. Praying through his method -meaning pure heart/spirit-Spirit, directly to Creator- results in everything. Why folks mix that up is to deflect attention from the reality that they have zero connection to their Creator.
He is/was the 2nd Adam, a flesh-blood man, empowered as Adam was with the ruach which is the Spirit or anointing/power of Creator -the Breath.
Should we pray to a power? No. Should we pray to a man? No. Should we pray to the Creator, yes. Certainly, he was a reflection of Creator, as is everyone who has that same Spirit-spirit in them.
So worshiping {an action of prayer, song, sacrifice} to him is not proper nor correct. Same as praying to angels, "saints", Mary or dead loved ones. Which ultimately concludes 99% of Christians are practicing pagans, idolaters. Explains why their prayers -and even the prayers of the non disbelieving are not being answered. Why the likes of Tony Robbins, and Secrets exist. Why the manifest kingdom is, well, not manifest and millions dieing for lack of understanding; why new and improved prophecies are being designed, fear theories, great destruction and more. Humans are sending out billions of vibrations {words, prayers, etc} per millisecond and that noise is killing them, the planet and any chance at a real relationship with Creator.
James.Well, John 1:1-14 contradicts that.
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
That is when He was earth. He assumed the role of the Son and therefore He had to pray to God. He couldn't very well pray to Himself. As the risen Christ and Him being reunited with the Father in heaven, He is now the part of the Holy Spirit.
But is not God and Jesus one as the Holy Spirit? Prayer to Jesus is praying to God and praying to God is praying to Jesus.
Oh, didn't people worship Jesus on earth?
But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "Have you never read, ‘From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'" (Matthew 21:15, 16).
Matthew 28:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Is Jesus not worthy of worship for dying for our sins?
Praying to angels, saints, etc, is pagan, I agree.Actually, it does not contradict. It has, however, been completely misread and misunderstood. The word, "word" is what is not correctly interpreted/understood. and since that one word is not, the entire thing is thrown off, and into spin-doctor-ville. Strangely enough, reminded someone of this today, regarding the Hebrew glyph vav {or waw}.
As for him being worthy to be worshiped. No, the entire point of his altruistic action was just for that reason, not to be worshiped. Even he said, all the credit and praise goes to his Father {Abba}, not himself.
Again, it proves more and more how truly disconnected or not-connected at all people are to the Creator. Better to make up sensations and equations, study books or pray to beings, to suppress or hide from that fact, just like Adam hid -or at least tried to...
"...having even seen the great works of God, done by his servant Moshe, who is a shadow of the Messenger, at the foot of the Holy Mountain, where the Spirit hovered, made idols, drank strongly and did act as pagans do..."I do not see who John can be interpreted any way else. It said the Word was God then it says the Word became flesh. You did not explain exactly how this is wrong.
If Jesus and God are one as the Holy Spirit then how can you break them apart? They are interchangeable. Jesus gave all the credit to the Lord but is know reunited with Him in one entity.
Hebrews 1:6 says:
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AfFcAmx … ure=relmfu
This Bishop speaks of how Jesus evolved to be the work.
He also speaks of the perils of reading scriptures literally.
Regards
DLUm, yeah, angels are not humans. they were created to be messengers of creator and do whatever he designed them to do. So, if Creator said angels are to worship him, so be it. Never -not in any piece of script is any human commanded to worship Y`shua.
James, you do realize you are fighting against the Christianity Trinity, right?
The Trinity is God, Jesus and Holy Spirit.
God is Jesus.
God is God.
God is Holy Spirit.
All contained in one supreme entity.
I figured he was seriously confused individual.
I mean, multiple split personalities is quite dangerous. And, if power tends to corrupt and absolute power(which he has) corrupts absolutely applies.
But, worshiping Jesus is irrelevant because he is considered part of God, aside of being his Son. Jesus is supposedly the manifestation of God in the physical form, but still remains God.
To me it's ridiculous.which essentially means He corrupted himself. That's not good.
I'm sorry but you aren't presenting a convincing argument here. Jesus wasn't merely a human but the son of God as well and God incarnate. So if He is one with the Father, then is it wrong to worship Him? Why would the angels worship Him if He merely was human? Why not saints then?
Why do angels worship/minister to you as a son -err daughter- of Creator?
As it is written you are one with him if the same Spirit dwells in you.
That is the literal meaning of incarnate: fullness of Creator within {also translated the kingdom within or anointing}.
Adam was the first incarnate. Deny it, and you have essentially made the enter idea of Creator, mans creation, inception, suffering, restoration of no effect -a moot point, a lie.
There is no such Trinity. Not one piece within the text suggests a Trinity. This concept was born from inbred Greco-Roman paganism, as is nearly every sector of Christianity. The pagan title seems to have been catchy enough that everyone -well no everyone but many- want to be called one.
Besides, I gave up providing a "convincing argument" with both sides. Neither is even remotely willing to open up.What are you talking about? Angels don't worship or minister to us? First you say Jesus mustn't be worshiped and then you say the angels worship us?
People often misinterpret "being one with God" as written in the Bible. This is a contextual error:
"Many modern archaeological discoveries have validated the historical accuracy
of the Bible and have helped Bible scholars understand the meaning of certain ancient words ..... In Koine Greek, the expression entos humon (literally, 'inside of you') often meant 'within reach'. Thus Jesus' statement is Luke 17:21 could mean 'The kingdom is within reach.'" (Philip W Comfort, p 273 The Origin of the Bible).
There are other interpretations of that particular verse:
"The kingdom of God is in the midst of you."
"For the Kingdom of God is among you."
"For behold the kingdom of God is among you."
The Pharisees were wicked and thus the Kingdom of God could not have been inside of them.
Quotes from website consulted:
http://www.voiceofjesus.org/kingdom_not_within.html
"Jesus never speaks of the kingdom being inside of anyone. That is vitally significant, for it reveals something about the nature of the kingdom that was the focus of his gospel, the Gospel of the Kingdom. So, did he speak of others entering into the kingdom? Many times!"
Matt. 5 (FNT)
20 For I say to you that unless your justice abounds more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
Matt. 7 (FNT)
21 Not everyone saying to me: Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my father who is in the heavens.
Matt. 18 (FNT)
3 Truly I say to you, unless you turn and become as the child, you will not enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
Matt. 19 (FNT):
23 Truly I say to you that the rich hardly enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 24 But again I say to you it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 9 (FNT):
47 And if your eye stumble you, cast it out, for it is good that one-eyed you enter into the kingdom of God than having two eyes be thrown into Gehenna, . . ..
Mark 10 (FNT):
23 How difficulty will those having possessions enter into the kingdom of God. 24 But his disciples were being amazed at his words. But Jesus again answering says to them: Children, How difficult it is for those trusting upon possessions to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for the rich to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 18 (FNT):
24 How difficulty those having possessions enter into the kingdom of God. 25 For it is easier for a camel to enter through a needle hole than for the rich to enter into the kingdom of God.
John 8 (FNT):
4 Nicodemus says to him: How is a man able to be born when he is old? Is he able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? 5 Jesus answered: Truly truly I say to you, if someone not be born out of water and spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
Thus the kingdom of God is not inside of us. If one has a personal relationship with God then they are inside of His kingdom.
Context is very important especially when it is a translation.Yes, indeed, let's keep context in context:
Hebrews 1.14 : "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" {see also Psalm 91, Daniel 6, etc}
So, angels minister to humans, even as they minister to Y`shua, who is also human.
However, as said before, humans are not to worship other humans. And no matter how religion splices it, Y`shua is still very much human. His incarnation reflects that same incarnation of Adam -the fullness of the Spirit dwelling within. This is ruach. This is the Breath of Life.
JamesNowhere does it say that angels worship us. Did Jesus not come to serve? Does Jesus worship us?
Can you give me an example where angels minister to us in everyday life? And they did not minister to Jesus. Jesus sought help from the Father. If Jesus was just human like the rest of us then why is He the radiance of God's glory? Are we the radiance of God's glory? Hebrews 1:4-13 clearly says Jesus is superior to the angels.
The Pharisees would never have accused Jesus of blasphemy if He claimed just to be a servant of the Lord. The believed THEY were.
Consider this for example:
John 5:16-24
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
He clearly is equating Himself with God because He judges us just as God judges us. In fact, Jesus sees judgment as His and not God's! That was considered blasphemy to those He spoke to but it isn't because Jesus is God and God is Jesus.No, Jacharless said Angels (spirit) minister to us. Humans were told not to worship humans. Jesus was human and like everyone... has the ruach (breath of life or spirit) dwelling within.
What is clear to you is understandable because you seem to negate that which dwells within.As an governing authority, he was given -repeat given- authority to judge the Law, sin/death. That authority was given him by the Father, and not by his own personal vendetta/desire/power. So, once more, he is not God and should not be worshiped {prayed to, etc}. nor do we pray to the dead, nor angels or images made up in our minds, objects of wood, steel, etc {statues, crosses, Rosary Beads, etc} that are deemed as gods or containing the power of G/god.
Why did Jesus say everything He did the Father does also? Is He not equating Himself with God?
John 5:
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
Jesus would not have been put to death unless it was because of blasphemy. He was constantly accused of blasphemy because He claimed to be the divine son of God. If He claimed to be human, no one would pay attention to Him.
You still haven't told me the Context of John 1?
Also, can you give me an example where angels minister to us? Why did Jesus allow others to worship Him?
Why did Jesus say the only way to God was through Him? Can't we get to God through all of us? Why is Jesus to special?Actually, he wasn't. He never said he was God. He said he was the son of God. Big difference.The leaders thought he was because he spoke with authority and that he was a son of god {elohim}. Hebrew tradition makes saying you are connected to God -in that closeness- blasphemy because the Law says: no one is righteous.
And you confirm that here. Listen to what he says: "Like Father, like son". He mimics his Father and cannot do anything without the Father. Same as any son learns and does what their fathers do. From our dads we get inheritance, get instruction, discipline, authority/power, etc.
Actually, that is not entirely accurate. The Romans had no charge against him, but felt obligated/pressured by the Hebrew leaders. This is one reason Pilot gave them three chances to change their mind. If it was so cut-n-dry, Rome would have let him go, end of story. The Hebrews would probably have just stoned him to death like they did other would-be prophets/gods. But, this fellow had power and they could not argue that. And if you read through the prophecies concerning him, you see this also. Exactly a son of, not God himself. And he always referenced himself being human -the son of Man. Why do people not get this? If one came and said they are of God, a prophet, everything is fine. The people validate the claim usually by some astounding work or miraculous event. However, when one comes and says they are Moshiach, that is blasphemy. This is what he said he was. The Anointed of God. The Messiah. That to them the ultimate insult. how dare he say he was the 2nd David, the King of Is Ra El. By saying so, made himself greater than Abram, Moshe, and all the prophets combined. He tells them what he tells you and I : you are sons of God, daughters of God. Be like your Father in every way! Why? Because you are his direct offspring and not just flesh-blood robotic servants/slaves. You have complete authority, complete spirit, full power - you are also brothers and sisters with him if that same Spirit dwells in you {gen 1.2}. This is exactly what Y`shua said. If you, right now, went to a rabbi and said this, they would throw you out on your ear -and if possible stone you to death as well.
And, I am not going to. And as said earlier the misunderstanding is that word "Word". Same as people misunderstand ha-satan for "Satan". and many other things. Genesis 1.2, and John 1.1 {also Matt 4.4} say exactly the same thing. In fact, it is mentioned countless times throughout Torah and the Letters.
What do you mean an example? One example is the angels and Lot; another is Yacov, still another is Elijah AND Elisha; still more is Y`shua.
Again, misinterpretation. People worshiped him because they didn't know what else to do in the face of such awesome power. Miracle after miracle, day after day; even rising from the grave. They were overwhelmed to the point where they fell down nearly dead. People did this with Moses and the prophets. They even did it with the fakers. People do this today without that power -just by Tony Robbins, Bono, the Pope or Mother Teresa walking into a room. They worship them and follow them all over the place, digitally and physically.
Through him means through his method of complete spirit: action of practical faith, which leads to salvation. That everyone can achieve exactly what he did: eternal life, body brain and spirit. A complete return to the pre-Adamic Inception stasis. The only Way to the Father is by pure, unchained faith.
James.Don't you know the son of God and God are one and the same? He definitely was insinuating that!
That is because they cannot be separated! Can God not do something if we do?
What I meant is that the Jews would not have brought Jesus to the Romans if they did not think He was blasphemous. So you believe that Jesus lied about being the divine son of God just to get attention because no one would pay attention to Him if He was human? So He was lying to His disciples?
So what is the Word then? You say it is a misunderstanding but you don't say what the Word means. Are you saying the author of John got it wrong?
No, I mean today.
Why didn't He rebuke them and say only the Lord is worthy of worship? If someone starting worshiping me I'd say they were guilty of idolatry.
Actually we was saying that without a faith in Jesus no one can reach the Father. In other words, a non Christian, or member of any other religion, could not reach the Father except through Him. Non Christians claim practical faith and salvation.Hi Claire. One point you brought up that you might want to rethink. The disciples were rebuked and advised on at least two occasions I can think of off the top of my head. The Lord's prayer being one of them. And when someone called him good. He corrected them. Plus, I don't think there was any mention, by him, that he was going to heaven to sit on the main throne. It was at the right hand, if I'm not mistaken.
I realize he did use the words I AM in a position of power, but don't Christians today expect to use the name of Jesus to induce miracles? If they actually created one, they wouldn't think they were Jesus. Maybe it was the same as that.Ugh! How many times must I repeat the same thing for people to become un-dull?
The Word IS Ruach.
"...and the Ruach hovered over the waters..."
"...and He Said"
"...breathed into him the Breathe of Life..."
"...and Life {Eternal} is the light in man..."
The entire universe -everything it is -and in it- IS RUACH.
"all things made through Him {Spirit, which is ruach}".
"..upholding all things by the Word {ruach} of his power.
Light, dark, shadow, thoughts, logic, reason {knowledge of}, blood, birds, dirt, water, bumble bees,
e v e r y t h i n g.
Every human is born by, in and with ruach. We are all Sons/Daughter of Creator. We cannot separate ourselves anymore than Y`shua could separate himself from Creator. This is the point he kept making and everyone has ignored, misread, misinterpreted. His purpose was to show -unequivocally, undeniably, precisely what we are supposed to look like, be able to do -naturally- as immortal reflections of Creator. To reverse everything done by Adam and the effects of that Inception. To explain how-to let the Spirit {ruach} reconnect that umbilical cord and once again have a free-flow between Creator {Philos -masculine; Love -feminine} and every one of us.
Y`shua is the Way to the Father {who is Creator -what some call a G/god} because he was the Firstfruit, Firstborn son -of many to come. His path of example, of that transformation is that way. Not go to Jesus, then it gets sent up to the Father. That is not what he spoke nor how it works. Creator does not need a middleman or middle-book to unite with His offspring. Nor do humans need a middleman or middle-book to unite with Him. Y`shua explained this: if the Spirit {ruach} is in you, then you also are in me, I in you, and we in Him {Father}.
James.
Claire
Note how you explain things by calling upon the supernatural.
Belief in fantasy, miracles and magic has screwed up your thinking.
Think what you would think of anything I said if I attributed things to fairies.
See what I mean?
Regards
DLIt's not my problem you haven't experienced the supernatural. If you said you believed it fairies, then so be it.
Jacharless
Satan worships God then?
He is an angel.
But really, are you not taking your delusion a bit far?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc
What would you think of anything I say if I told you that I believed in fairies?
What do you think I should think of your belief in angels and demons?
Regards
DLApparently there is bleeding lack of literary optics on your machine, as my original post clearly pointed out: there is no such entity as Satan {nor demons}. Check your ASCII. Also, might want to rethink that predestined angst toward your former indoctrination, for your new found indoctrination.
When we were kids every once in a month my mother accompanies us to the church and we confessed to the priest and I usually am confused and don't know what to say. I just say the usual, talk back to my parents, disrespectful etc. and every week that's all I have to confessed. I went to a Catholic school in high school and again we all confessed to an Irish school priest. Still, I always say the same usual sins. Some I invent because I don't know what to say. Now I don't confess anymore. I still am a Catholic but not practicing.
Thanks, we also confess our sins directly to God. But sometimes, i would hear people say, Oh, its time for confession. Is it a rule for Catholics? Because other religions dont have confessions.
The Biblical justification for confession is an interpretation of Matthew 16.
The Catholic interpretation is that Jesus named Peter as head of the church (i.e. The first Pope), and at various times the "keys of the kingdom" passage has been taken literally to mean that the church itself determines what sins will be forgiven and therefore who goes where after death. This lead to problems of corruption, such as indulgences.
I don't believe it's truly the case that a priest must intercede between you and God, but as a recent Catholic convert I've found confession beneficial from a spiritual well-being standpoint. It's good to get an outside perspective and a person you can feel accountable to who isn't directly affected by your mistakes. I've felt a sense of absolution and received some very good advice that has helped me better myself through confession.
Most priests I've talked to have encouraged proactive "penance" that tackles the issues that led me to sin. The practice of "homework" penance (i.e. Say X Our Fathers and Y Hail Mary's) is largely obsolete.well, i guess, it depend on the belief of people. what they were comfortable of doing. I honor your opinion sir. Maybe people confess their sins to a priest when they needed help/advise on what to do. I don't have any experience though, we dont have confessions.
God. A priest is human. God knows and understands all, even the words that can't express my inner most feelings. No mediator needed. You can talk straight to God.
I think it's healthy to confess your sins to another person if you are just looking for an accountability partner. The bible says in James 5:16... Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another they you may be healed. Now I would NOT suggest you confess your sins to anyone expecting for them to forgive you or make you right in God's sight. That's what the blood of Jesus was shed for. It was a remission for our sins. Jesus came to mend the relationship between humanity and God that we might be able to go directly to him. Priests make great friends and counselors...I'm sure but I say make your confessions made known to God among all others.
You might remember as you try to make Jesus your beast of your burden that human sacrifice is immoral and so is trying to profit from God having his own son needlessly murdered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2 … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U
Regards
DL
As a former Catholic I remember as a child wishing I could be a priest so that I would know everybody's secrets. My experience in confession actually involved getting stuff like 3 Hail Marys and 4 Our Fathers, that sort of stuff.
Now, when I confess directly to God in Jesus name, I notice a feeling of grace afterwards, and the overall results are positive and lasting.
I don't want to criticize Catholics though, I think people relate to God in different ways, and I just found a way to relate to God which reaped heartfelt results in my personal experience, and so I have stayed by it.What of the victim of your sin?
He/she is the one who has the right, or not, to forgive.
Your good feeling FMPOV says that you just feel good because you have shirked your duty to your victim.
He or she is the one you hurt. You cannot hurt a God.
Regards
DLHi DL, sorry for replying so late. I watched all your videos and they are interesting and very good. I also have been reading the line of comments you've been making. I really don't know how to answer this question about the victim of my sin, because it involves a perception of things that would call for a whole hub. The closest I can come to an answer is this link. This is a fellow who has a nice way of explaining faith and I hope you will enjoy reading his blog. The link is http://evandolive.com/2012/06/20/when-f … ot-enough/
Thanks,
MonaFaith without facts is for fools and has nothing to do with the issue.
I think it quite immoral for Jesus believers to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.
Human sacrifice is immoral.
Regards
DLDear DL,
Most often, we are victims of our own sin. We may be mad at someone, but we bear the consequence of our own anger.
You ideas for facts as basis for faith could make me doubt you have a skeletal framework, for example, even if this is studied in science. I can doubt because I haven't seen your skeletal framework. If you base faith only on what you see, you are acting on faith every day.
Regarding Jesus dying for our sins, past, present and future, it''s a gift offered to everyone and anyone is welcome to this gift of salvation. Human sacrifice is immoral and is still practiced today and even before jesus died. But Jesus chose to die for us. So from an immoral act, where Jesus was a victim of politics, he actually became stronger as he rose from the dead and saved many souls, too to have eternal life..
Receiving this gift is like when we feed our newborns the milk we give them. We are devastated if our child doesn't drink because it may indicate illness. We are thrilled when our child drinks because she will be healthy and enjoy a good quality of life.
Take care,
MOnaSo Jesus did an immoral act. I agree.
And you will try to profit from that immorality.
Nice Christian attitude.
Regards
DLDear DL,
I think Christians, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, and people of other faiths and/or philosophies share one thing in common -- we are not perfect.
If we were perfect, there would be no reason to believe in a higher power, or a particular philosophy. I think God understood those imperfections but didn't leave us in a situation where we harm others and ourselves by our sins. Jesus, being part God and part man reconciled the human experience with access to grace.
People are all in a process of growth, and of course, some of the worst evil people are leading some churches. Some of the worst people become Christians because they are tired of living as they have for so long. The process of growth and the journey that grows with it is not immediate, and will be full of mistakes, but the difference, again, only speaking from my personal experience, is that you are headed in a better direction that enhances the quality of your life and others benefit from this, too.
It's hard to isolate sin like saying, "I lied." More often, life follows patterns. So it's more likely not one lie, but a habit of lying. Or, to say "I gossiped" would more likely be having a tendency to gossip. So confession whether to a priest or to God directly in Jesus' name can't just involve one or five sins, but observing patterns of behavior that are hurtful both to yourself and others.
This is what happens when you receive Jesus into your life. The immorality I referred to before was his being a political victim. But it was his choice to die for us, and in this way, to empower all of us.
I would die for my child in a snap. I wouldn't consider that an immoral act, but something done out of love.
Take care,
MonaYou would be right in that being moral. You will note that your God did the opposite.
And please stop your preaching for an immoral religion based on human sacrifice. You spread an immoral doctrine just so that you too can profit from God having his son needlessly murdered.
As a woman, you should read and view these.
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.
If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.
This then begs the question.
What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?
Only an insane God. That’s who.
The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.
One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYII … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXr … re=related
Regards
DLSo it was God's fault that the Pharisees wanted Jesus dead and Pontius Pilate put him to death? And since when is Jesus being crucified considered a human sacrifice? Human sacrifices entail people being killed to appease the gods. How can God be appeased by Jesus being sacrificed and not even to Him??
That Genesis story isn't literal; in fact it's pagan. What you don't take into consideration that in other dimensions there is no time? In fact, time is actually a perception. Einstein postulates that the past, present, future happen simultaneously so there is no technically God seeing into the future that hasn't already happened.
God obviously "saw" a problem when we got corrupted by evil beings and knew that we could never overcome sin on our own due to our human nature. Read the Sumerian Texts on how humanity got genetically manipulated.
You are being dishonest now. God did not plan and murder His own son. He allowed it to happen but He did not make anyone kill Jesus.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.
And so this automatically makes worshiping Jesus immoral?So if God allow you to be raped, he is not culpable for that rape!
You will note you pathetic thing that humans have laws against omitting to help prevent crimes when they can.
Nice to know that you would be comfortable watching someone be raped as you follow your God's example and just watch.
You have learned good morals from your God. Not.
Regards
DLI know for as truth that nothing will happen to those who put their lives into God's hands unless the benefits of hardship by far outweighs the suffering. We can only be spiritually refined by suffering.
Yes, and God has His commandments which people refuse to abide by.
You really have a nerve telling me I would be comfortable with evil. What are you doing for rape victims? Do you counsel rape victims?
Just keep in mind that God "watched" the son of God go through more suffering than anyone has ever endured. That mean God allowed HIMSELF to suffer as He is one with Jesus. Jesus is also God incarnate.
I have been through that stage where I suffered so much that I asked God if He actually enjoyed seeing me suffer. I see in retrospect that my suffering spiritually refined me. It benefited me in that my faith is even stronger and with that faith my burden gets lighter.
I am not surprised that GIA (ET) is not showing his face here, Claire. He seems to get malicious pleasure with some of his responses. There are quite a few. Do not feed him, if you can. Much love.
Dear DL,
Sorry for the late reply. I saw your videos regarding what the Bible says about women, and they were interesting. I think, however, that these verses are reflective of the times in which they were written.
From the beginning, women were always persecuted, I think because from caveman times women were the weaker sex and what mattered most was survival of the fittest.
As civilizations evolved, women still were not treated equally, and it springs from that perception. Even today, women still have a long way to go in terms of equality.
However, you will note that those were Bible verses from the Old Testament. The New Testament came with the purpose of providing a new covenant. In the Old Testament man could be saved by works. In the New Testament, man is saved by faith.
In fact, while things were still not perfect in the Old Testament (nor are they today), there were certain ways by which women received justice through Jesus. First, recall the time when a woman was supposed to be stoned for adultery. The people brought the woman to Jesus, and Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
Today some cultures still stone women, but Christian cultures don't.
I would also like to point out Ephesians 5:21-28. It says that we should submit to one another, and to God primarily. It also talks about how wives should submit to their husbands. I may be old fashioned, but I believe in that. It goes on to say in verse 28, "husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself."
What stands out here is, submission is not an excuse to suppress. Instead, the law has been revised and men are required to love their wives. In 1 Cor. 13: 4 onwards, you see what love involves. It calls for a lot more than submission.
Again, society continues to evolve, and what matters in Christianity are its fundamentals. First, to love. Jesus died for us as an act of love. I believe the trinity, so in essence God died for us in the form of his son Jesus. But he also rose from the dead.
The fundamentals of Christianity really involve a loving God, and the transforming power you get when you receive Jesus in your life, which helps you to become the person you were meant to be. The transformation happens gradually, but what is important is, it happens.
Take care,
MonaI confess I cannot claim to know even 1/10 of what you do about the bible but I do agree with your first statement, that many verses are reflective of the times in which they were written. That has been the topic of several discussions (not heated ones!) between my friends and I.
I do have a very strong faith and I believe He knows that. I thoroughly enjoyed your hub. Thank you for posting.Lindalou
What is it with older people wanting to profit from the murder of an innocent man?
What a poor way to live. In so much fear of death that it drive you to an immoral doctrine. Sigh.
Quite immoral that.
Regards
DLYou know, has it every occurred to you that maybe they aren't immoral...but your understanding of their philosophy is skewed?
I've noticed quite a few mainstream Christian posters attempt to courteously share their ideas and you do have a tendency to be caustic, as if your assessment is the only one that could be right.
What makes you so sure they are immoral?What are the profits and how are people profiting from the murder?
So by all means, continue in your immorality and trying to profit off the murder of an innocent man.
You will see how fast God sends your sorry ass to hell when he sees you trying to do so.
Regards
DLDear DL and Pennyofheaven,
I think the difference is in perception. For you, it's an immoral act that we benefit from. For others, it's a gift from God, an act of love and sacrifice for his children. Again, I would die for my child and would be grateful for all benefits she would get from it.
The divergence is probably there because Christians believe in the trinity, and most likely you do not. This is why the perception differs.
Take care,
MonaHuh? I never said anything was immoral? Did I miss something?
Pennyofheaven,
Mea culpa. No, you never said the death of Jesus is immoral.
Take care,
Mona
Grand
Your level of knowledge is quite poor. So is your use of language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VsN3IG1HtQ
Originally Posted by animefan48
Well, the reality is most Christians do buy into the trinity doctrine because of persecution of the early Gnostics and non-Trinitarians, and the religious councils were dissenters were forced to agree to a Trinitarian theology. Many Unitarian and Universalist theologies argue that when Jesus said he was the way, he meant that he was an example of how to live to be united/reunited with God. As for the name, God does give other names for himself including the Alpha and Omega, as well as some believe a name that should not be written (or even spoken I believe). Honestly, I think using the name I Am That I Am would just be confusing and convoluted, seriously. I seriously do not believe that it is a continuation of Gnostic/mystical/Unitarian suppression. Even the Gnostic and mystical traditions within Islam and Christianity do not tend to use that name, and among the 99 Names of Allah, I did not find that one. Also, many Rastafarians believe that the Holy Spirit lives in humans and will sometimes say I and I instead of we, yet they don't seem to use the name I Am for God/Jah either, so I really don't think it can be related to suppressing mystical and Gnostic interpretations. I think that originally oppressing those ideas and decreeing them heretical are quite enough, the early Church did such a good job that after the split many Protestant groups continued to condemn mystical and later Gnostic sects and theologies.
Yup, the bishops voted and it was settled for all time!!1 (Some say the preliminary votes were 150 something to 140 something in favor of the trinity)
But then Constantine stepped in: After a prolonged and inconclusive debate, the impatient Constantine intervened to force an end to the conflict by demanding the adoption of the creed. The vote was taken under threat of exile for any who did not support the decision favored by Constantine. (And later, they fully endorsed the trinity idea when it all happened again at the council of Constantinople in AD 381, where only Trinitarians were invited to attend. Surprise! They also managed to carry a vote in favor of the Trinity.)
http://home.pacific.net.au/~amaxwell/bdigest/bd12bbs.tx
Even a Trinitarian scholar admits the Earliest & Original beliefs were NOT Trinitarian!
The trinity formulation is a later corruption away from the earliest & original beliefs!
"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed".
Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180
"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament".
R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173, 1980
The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306.
"The formulation ‘One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective"
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299.
"The formulation ‘One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).
"Fourth-century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary a deviation from this teaching" (The Encyclopedia Americana, p. 1956, p. 2941).
Was Jesus God to Paul and other early Christians? No. . . . .
(Source: How the Bible became the Bible by Donald L. O'Dell - ISBN 0-7414-2993-4 Published by INFINITY Publishing.com)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD0eSqFJ7J4
Regards
DLDear DL,
Wow, you certainly have done your research! I am no theologian, priest nor pastor, but your information is, as always, very interesting. I have no answer yet regarding the Trinity, but I am in the process of trying to formulate a personal explanation for you. I will try to be as learned as possible, but have to warn you that I lead my life a lot on instinct and that will be incorporated, too. My answer may not satisfy you, but at least you will know where I am coming from.
Hope to respond in a few days.
Take care,
MonaDear DL,
I will try my best to respond now to what you said.
Regarding the first video, the man talks from the premise of the human person. He states if God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are persons, they can't be one because they are three.
The premise already is wrong, because God is not a person, but God, who can do anything. God can come down to earth as his son, half man, half God, as Jesus, and choose to sacrifice his life for our sins. God can also be the Holy Spirit, who empowers us on our daily walk in Christ. So the very premise of this man's argument already sets him up for failure, from the point of Christian doctrine.
Regarding your succeeding paragraphs, what other faiths and cultures believe is what they believe, and they themselves will disagree with one another on many other things. Agreement is not a sign of truth.
Regarding the history pointed out in your link and the fact that there were times when political convenience took over faith, and Constantine's keeping another faith even as he pushed for the trinity, we know that political convenience is something that exists until now. You have Republicans aiming for conservative Christian votes by taking certain stands. You have Democrats aiming for liberal votes and moderate Christian votes and it boils down to a game of numbers. That is human nature, and the nature of politics. And to remind you, Jesus' death was a matter of political convenience.
The first belief need not be the true belief and if that is the basis for what is correctly believed, it is flawed. Jesus came to show us a new way, a better way of living and to lift us up from the kind of mess that is described in the examples you set. So while the mess may still prevail till now, there is still this direction that Jesus pointed out for us and it is our choice to choose that way or not.
Finally, the Bible itself talks about the trinity. As men began to study the Bible, which came in the form of several letters and later became one Bible under the Canon, the trinity could clearly be discerned. For this, may I refer you to:
http://www.montney.com/inspire/trinity.htm
Regards,
Mona
You seem to look for an opportunity to correct all others. It may lower the spirit of the hub. Lift up your heart, my friend. Send out more love, belief or no belief. Know for sure that you are affecting those who read your comments. Be a critic, sure, but add sweetness where you can. Much love.
It is hard to often hard correct those who follow dogma without thinking about it and will try to use a scapegoat instead of stepping up themselve to their own responsibilities.
With children, tough love is often the only avenue for correction. I use whatever method that might work.
I have seen many use a loving approaches. Believers are just as intolerant of them as of myself.
Show anywhere wher a loving way worked and I can learn from it.
Regards
DLSince everyone on this is forum is simply sharing opinions, your first problem might be that you think you have something to teach and everyone is destined to agree with you. Your opinions are just that.
Absolutely.
That is why I give facts and knowledge along with those opinions.
Like this for example that has both. See if you end in agreement or not.
It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClU … playnext=1
They also do much harm to their own.
African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXr … re=related
Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM
Promoting death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_B … re=related
For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.
Regards
DLDo you really think anyone is going to follow those links? I know how to handle a fox. Don't chase it. Get it when it comes around for another chicken.
Those who care about justice and morals do.
Those who wish to keep their heads in the sand will not.
Regards
DLDon't be ridiculous. Not reading your links is not sticking one's head in the sand. You post too many. You do realize they reiterate things that have also been said by others? You aren't the only human being who ever read a book, watched a you tube video, or came to a conclusion.
Honestly, you need to stop adding so many links. I may want to read your post, but I'm not committing half the afternoon to do it.
Yes, I think you guys need to get the fundies and evangelical loud mouths in check and move toward a more measured approach. But, I don't see your approach as that one. You don't exhibit any less zeal that others hear and obey you than do the ones you just complained about.
Your opinion on a Godhead is your opinion. You want to think it is better than their idea. OK by me, but they honestly don't have to agree with you. It's an opinion.
You are welcome to quote Edmund Burke in your attempt to galvanize me into jumping on your band wagon, but I think you are spending less time fighting evil than you are fighting against people who disagree with you. I'll tell you like I tell the fundies and evangelicals. They aren't one in the same.
Maybe so, GIA,
But to see the negative we have to take them on board. They will eventually sit on our shoulders like dead elephants and weigh us down. Besides, this world is really a mirror. One says outwardly, what one is also inwardly. To change ourselves is infintely more useful than to change the world. A loving way that worked was that of the Christ. With all its negative sides, Christianity has produced many saints and helped millions. So has the Buddha's doctrine, Sufism, Yoga philosophy of Sri Krishna and others. The way of Mother Theresa has inspired hope and made millions more selfless. Look to the heart and not the mind, my dear brother.What is in a heart is expresses by the mind and mouth.
Those who follow a genocidal son murdering God are showing exactly what is in their hearts by their speech.
Jesus said we would know them by their deeds and their immoral deeds of speech speak volumes.
I know what you are saying and when allowed to, I do curb my ways and speech to suit but lest you forget, I speak mostly to those who believe in fantasy, miracles and magic and who wait eagerly for their GOD TO RETURN TO GENOCIDE MANKIND ONCE AGAIN.
You be nice to such sick minds. I will try to cure them however I can.
I do not hate them but do hate their immorality. I hate to lose any potentially moral human mind.
Regards
DL"I will try to cure them" That is the problem, GIA. Religion killed a great many saints and broke many slaves at the wheel because they believed they were right. I have no beef with anyone, just trying to reason here.
We cannot cure or change. This is God's job. If you do not like an employee, are you going to sack him? It is the Employers job. In the same way, this Creation is God's. We know what we have to do because God-men in plenty and many saints have died to show us the way. Being on your kind of crusade could lead to an unhappy life. Hope you are well. Keep well."this Creation is God's."
Then he is a piss poor caretaker of his slaves and creation.
He gives us this to work with----
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXr … re=related
And completely ignores these souls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMXoPhgT … r_embedded
Regards
DL
Don't priests grant absolution? God never says a word...
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago
0Although I frown on the practice of confessing anything to a priest, mainly because of the obvious possibility of abuse of power; I think I understand why the practice could work.
I don't think it is healthy to keep things that trouble you secret. Especially when you feel you have wronged another. And, this belief that you just ask God for forgiveness and you are magically forgiven has serious drawbacks. In practice, a believer can harm others; either emotionally, spiritually or physically, again and again. Thinking it will all be ok either way...because God forgives them. Such an attitude stands in the way of finding true remorse, since you don't bother to 'leave the altar and resolve your differences with your brother'. It's too easy to justify things in your mind and chalk it up as 'God's grace'.
I would think a priest would represent an impartial party. Someone who could help you understand how your actions might have fallen short of your mark and help you see the course necessary to resolve it.Emile,
I understand the logic of that, the feeling that since you are forgiven you can get away with anything. But somehow it doesn't work out that way. As a Christian we define repentance as a change of ways, not simply as saying, "I'm sorry."
For some reason, in my experience I became closer to my conscience and its hard to explain in words, but that is the experience of many Christians. By God's grace, what I mean is, when I go to God about issues in my life, for example a disagreement with someone, somehow you end up with a feeling of peace and in due time, things fall into place.Fair enough. But, then comes the question...what of the other person? If you wronged them and became forgiven when you mentioned the incident to God, but you didn't reconcile with the individual, how does your forgiveness and grace received affect the balance? Changed ways don't always fix things.
There is more to your book than information on how to interact with God. Or how your actions affect God. Jesus' points involved caring about others and putting the relationship with your fellow man on an equal footing as your relationship with your God. This secret forgiveness appears to fly in the face of love for others. Since it does not involve reconciliation on the physical plane. The practice adversely affects the balance.
E R.
Your heart is above the usuol believer's self-cetered one.
Keep it up.
Regards
DL
Paradigmsearch, as a former Catholic, I think its true, the priest gives absolution. As a Christian, the teaching is that Jesus died for all our sins past, present and future.
Confessing to a priest is good in that you have someone to clear your mind with and to receive counsel from regarding issues in your life. In the Christian faith, you can seek counsel from the Pastor or a church leader.
Although as a Christian you know you are forgiven, you tend to really change your life and lifestyle because it sort of naturally follows. You sort of let go of old things that you used to enjoy, and start enjoying different things. It's hard to explain, it's just my experience. But I respect everyone's experience, whether Christian or Catholic, because I used to be a Catholic too and all my siblings are Catholics.The only reason Catholic priests hear confession is because their to dull minded to come up with their own fantasies to"Pleasure"them selves to.
It's rather telling that the first popes name was"Peter".That's when it all started.There are accounts of special rooms at seminary where perv...I mean priests in training can"purge"them selves of lascivious thoughts.A priest cannot forgive your sins! Only God can do that. Talking to someone about your guilt over sins is fine but they are not the ones who forgive you
You mean all those who paid indulgences to the church were being lied to?
That makes the church quite the liar.
Regards
DLActually, since indulgences ended many moons ago past tense should have been used there. Not present tense.
Out of curiosity, do you think there is any power on earth that doesn't lie to those they control? Why would religious organizations be different from their secular counterparts? Why would religious people expect them to be different? I'm sure Catholics are painfully aware of the past mistakes of the church.Indulgences are alive and well every time they pass the basket in church.
What do you think people are paying for if not salvation?
As to organizations lying, probably but your brush is too wide.
As to religions lying, I find that most, other than the Abrahamic ones do not.
They do not have to as most recognize that their religions are myths. Only the Abrahamic followers are too foolish to recognize that their religion is myth based as well.
Only Abrahamic based literalists are silly enough to believe in fantasy, miracles and magic.
Then again, they are not too bright or moral. They follow a genocidal son murderer and call that evil good.
Regards
DLIt appears as if you switch brushes at will, wide to narrow; as it suits your agenda. Far be it from me to take up the task of finding out what 'demons' dog you into such a prejudicial view.
I don't think it would be fair to claim that every tithe is considered an indulgence. Unless, you don't understand what the term means to the average protestant. I've never heard one say that their tithe absolves them of sin and is what makes them right with God, in their mind.
Organizations whose sole purpose is to govern people lie at times. That's an indisputable fact. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something. Power corrupts.
Most religions don't lie? That is somewhat naive. Religion addresses cosmic questions. Any claim to knowledge is couched in lies. That, too, is a fact. Religion is little more than one person's attempt to snooker another into placing them on a pedestal.
And, Abrahamic religions are the only ones who believe in miracles? Maybe they are the only ones who attribute miracles to a power outside of their own. I believe there is a guy in the east claiming he hasn't consumed food in thirty years. Ones who claim they can reach a meditative state so deep that they float. I suppose you consider the claim that a voodoo magician can create zombies real? I could go on, but almost every religion known to man believes in what others may classify as miracles.
As to your last statement. You garner little more than a
I would be curious of your opinion on one thing. Attempts to bait by comments that show a lack of intelligent thought display what, exactly....in your opinion? What does that say of character? Would that be a display of a deficiency in morals or ethics, in your opinion?Prove non-intelligent though or that it is a baited comment and we can discuss it.
Regards
DLI don't need to prove the obvious.
You seem to be an intelligent individual. Even if your comments do appear to be emotionally charged at times. I don't know what motivates anyone's hatred of the beliefs of others, but statements whose only purpose appears to be to showcase that hatred don't warrant me stooping to attempt to dissect them. I would think, as an intelligent individual, you'd tackle that job yourself.I am not motivated by hate but by my social conscience.
It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClU … playnext=1
They also do much harm to their own.
African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXr … re=related
Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM
Promoting death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_B … re=related
For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.
Or are you one of the evil ones?
Regards
DLOh, for goodness sake. Am I one of the evil ones because I raise an eyebrow at your illogical sensibilities? Please explain how you are any different from a fundamentalist with that question.
There is a Godhead according to you, just not the one you consider to be a silly one? What makes you think you know that? How are you right, and they are wrong?
As long as you approach the subject from an angle of belittling any who don't hold your view, you are nothing more than a mirror image of the view that apparently offends you."There is a Godhead according to you, just not the one you consider to be a silly one? What makes you think you know that?"
Personal experience leads my beliefs and common sense drives what I have to say to Christians of low morals.
Regards
DLWell, why didn't you just say you were holier than thou in the first place? I bow to your obviously superior personal experience on cosmic questions and morals so much more lofty than your fellow Christians.
In case the fact eluded you, the previous paragraph was dripping in sarcasm.
- Greatest I amposted 12 years ago0
I found an interesting clip of what Martin Luther thought of confession albeit in an indirect way. He was still a Catholic at that time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Regards
DL Emile...you sit rather well on a high horse of your own! Not considering anything prior to the last couple of statements. In my own experience, christians tend to know little about the real teachings of Jesus. I will give you a for instance; Jesus said that God is always with us, that God never leaves us...so...how can he return if he never left? This is not a contradiction...it is their expectation that God will return...because they choose not to believe that he never left. It is their choice to believe a deception...a self deception. They, have clearly been set up; by Jesus himself.
I agree. I can come off haughty. However, I don't claim cosmic knowledge, relationships with unseen beings and I don't think I have a leg up morally over the next person. I'm just a natural *ss.
I would probably agree with you on many points on interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, but that is simply because it fits comfortably with the type of person I am, what I consider to be the most beneficial way for humans to interact and what I see as the least number of contradictions when attempting to hammer out a cosmic view. Which, by the way, doesn't make us right. It simply means we would agree on a few points. How can you prove you aren't deceiving yourself?You only need to confess to a priest if God can't hear well in your body.
I think you need to confess to someone else if you can't honestly evaluate how your actions affect others and don't have the strength to take the steps necessary to reconcile with others or the ability to sincerely empathize. A relationship with 'God' to me is achieved, for the most part, by deep and honest reflection. Forgiving yourself for missteps, but doing everything in your power to rectify and correct them; and also to learn from them.
I assume God is ultimately the core of good in all of us.
Jesus was speaking of the Holy Spirit-
How do Christians feel "set up" again?
Back to OP ,if you sin against another person ,then seek forgiveness from them,if you sin against God then seek forgiveness from Him.
Therefore to seek forgiveness from a Priest or an ordained Minister has no relevance to me.
Maybe I am wrong,but so far I believe it to be right for me, and that is how God will judge me- on my knowledge and motive of my heart
I can speak only from the perspective of an Eastern Orthodox Christian; I've never been to a Roman Catholic church except as a spectator. In the Orthodox church, we do not confess our sins to the priest. We confess our sins to God in the presence of the priest. In addition to hearing the confession, the priest guides us to things we may have overlooked or be denying (as in a deeper sin that we are not aware of). If it's a one-time thing and not grievous (getting angry at someone who cuts you off in traffic and almost causes you to have a wreck) then enough is said. If the sin is part of a recurring pattern (and again, we may be blind to those patterns) then the priest offers help and advice, and sometimes a lot of sympathy if we are feeling alone in our struggle. We don't have penance, per se, but we do have the entire Church (expectant and militant) to be accountable to, and the priest helps us keep those accounts (did we actually make the restitution we took upon ourselves? did we try to overcome our propensity for that particular sin?).
Again, the priest does not give absolution; instead, the priest covers our heads with part of his garments which are set aside for prayer, and the priest then prays for our absolution. I find confession absolutely useful in transforming myself to become more like God.- Greatest I amposted 12 years ago0
Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
Sin, by it’s very nature must have a victim. Without a victim, there is no sin.
The one sinned against has the first right of forgiveness.
If Jesus usurps that right then I think it would be unjust.
Closure is being denied the victim thus victimizing is twofold.
Jesus would not condone such a thing.
Secular law now demands a victim assessment report before sentence is given.
To think that Jesus would ignore this requirement is unthinkable.
This means that, “Why have you forsaken me? “, is answered by God with; because what you do is immoral. You deny the victim her or his rights. It is also unjust to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. In fact, that notion is insane.
In the scenario shown here the victim is ignored thus showing the flaw in the judge’s ruling, if he accepts substitutionary atonement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_f...eature=related
Regards
DLJesus forgives those who truly repent and those who truly repent would most certainly make reparation with the sinned against if it is possible. It is not always possible to seek forgiveness from the wrong because one can repent years later and the victim long gone.
Jesus did not wait for the people nailing Him to the cross in order for them to forgive them.If you forgive someone that has wronged you, the deed is forgiven and there is no need for Jesus to forgive. Right?
Or does a debt have to be paid for twice?
Christianity is Jewish based. They forgave each other as it should be and did not worry about some flying sugar daddy for forgiveness.
It is to the victim to forgive first. Not some God usurping your right. God cannot be hurt in any way. You can.
Regards
DLSometimes people forgive others even when the wrong-doer is still in the wrong. They may drop any grudge for peace sake. They may forgive with sin attached to the one they forgive but Jesus cannot forgive unless there is true repentance.
You do not know God if you think He cannot be hurt in any way. If He are made in His image, then how come we get hurt? A loving God gets hurt just like you have done now to scorn Him.Yes people forgive. It is a cleansing action and quite healthy. That is why it is our right to gain those benefits and closure and not the right of some God who does not need healing and closure.
"You do not know God if you think He cannot be hurt in any way."
You do not know your all powerful God if you think he can be hurt.
In that court room clip where the guilty is set free; try to imagine yourself as the victim of rape in that case and wonder how you would feel the next day when you bump into your rapist on the street. Do you think that justice was done as you shrink away from him?
Why would you think it good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty?
The only thing that would make you think that stupidly is your desire to ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven. That is self-serving to the max my dear and quite immoral.
Please think of the victims as well as the innocent victim that must die if we were to follow such an immoral policy.
If you can get past your prejudices, this clip is rather well thought out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs
Regards
DL
If one sins again another, one sins against God, too. God has taken on the pain of the world so any pain another goes through, so does He.
You do not know where love comes from.
As I said, God only forgives those who truly repent. A repentant rapist would accept his punishment and not expect to be released into the public.
Do you know what hell one has to go through to get to a stage of true repentance? To know you have hurt someone so badly?
What you think is immoral is not necessarily so. You have just missed the boat completely.And you have eaten up all the B S that people have said about God and have many opinions but no knowleggde.
Prove that an all-powerful God can be hurt in any way by us.
You cannot and neither can anyone else.
All you have is a need to profit from the death of an innocent sacrificial man and if you do not see how immoral trying to profit from human sacrifice is then ----------. I am sure you are a better person than the morals you mouth thanks to your dog shit dogma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc
You have formed piss poor morals out of a fantasy.
It is never good to punish the innocent and not the guilty.
You should read this following and please think of your morals.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/100472
Regards
DLWas Jesus not hurt? After all, besides being the son of God, He was God incarnate, too.
Jesus willingly sacrificed Himself for us. He could have saved Himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc
Well, no one said that is the case.If he could save himself and did not, then his is a poor example of law for us.
To preach that the innocent should be punished for the guilty is insane.
Live with that if you choose to but be ready to go to hell for it. It is completely immoral.
Regards
DL
Confess only to Jesus who is God. He is the only one who can remove them from you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VsN3IG1HtQ
The bible says you are lying.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Does that say confess or repent?
What does the following tell you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztDgyOKej1k
Regards
DL
Wouldn't it be a lot less aggressive if you said someone was 'mistaken' instead of saying they are 'lying'? Isn't it possible that they believe they are speaking true? I find you offensive.
Misled. But when one speaks what one believes to be true, then it is truth to them. If one setes out to purposefully deceive...then that is a lie. I believe the commentator was saying something that he/she believes to be true, and, I will agree that they are misled to belieive it, but I don't think they are purposely setting out to deceive. Thou art a harsh judge...you should resign.
I don't know if I should say "Thank You." or "Oh bugger."
Haha... I will let you decide that if Claire decides to engage in a dialogue with you.
Anything against your conscience
you could confess to yourself- a person you offended
a confidante: priest, counselor, etc.
I agree there is a need to say sorry to make amends to grow and try to be a better human
For me it's often enough to talk to God. Often I just tell the person I hurt or tell myself whom I may have hurt. It depends on what you need to do to feel at peace.
I find with priests lately.....I'm not so comfortalbe so I confess to God in my own words. I don't want priests who don't care about their job, dismissing me with an attitude which happened recently
or getting off on my sins, I think they're only human and I don't think they need to ask "was it intercourse or not"You might find this interesting be you a Catholic or Protestant.
Martin Luther was so sick of the Catholic Church, with good reason that he basically turned into a Gnostic Christian like myself.
Unfortunately, most of his followers screwed up badly and started to read scriptures literally and screwed up many of the morals that were originally in scriptures. Now most literalists have poor morals and many literalist Catholics fare no better.
Regards
DL
I confess with my own words directly to God in a church when I think I have something to confess, which is very seldom. I´m still a catholic but not a church goer. I prefer to pray everywhere because I know God is everywhere not just in the church.
It's positive to think we have little sins to commit; as in that some of the "rules" are ridiculous.
But we all fall short, or rather we all offend daily-as for me- by thoughts, words, deeds like saying anything off could be considered a minor thing we could confess just to keep a positive wave for ourselfWe have no choice but to sin.
Sin , in a sense, is quite good or God would not have invented them.
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.
Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.
Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
Regards
DLhey DL,
That was long but,
I was mainly saying that we all are aware of ourselves and our actions. And we should be on top of it.
it's true. we all fall short and it's a daily thing to be a moral person. everyone deals with it.
that's what I meant.
T A
That is the way but remember that God is also within you.
Jesus said that your body is the temple of God and my Gnostic Christian apotheosis says that that is truth. No proof of course as there never is in such cases.
Regards
DL
Since NO Priest, has the power to forgive sin why bother discussing your sins with one?
Exactly. No one speaks for God.
Men are the only ones who ever have when they invented him.
Regards
DLIdk, doesn't it say in the bible"whose sins you are forgive they are forgiven them, whose sins you shall retain they are retained." (Jesus speaking to his apostles.)
So that means as in being priests, followers of Christ, they were given the power to forgive sins (as Christ, not as them, but as a representative of Christ- Christ does the forgiving, they merely preform the act of prayer)
So.....yeah. The priest basically asks about sins so he can tell you how much pennace you should say. What do you think of that?I doubt that, that passage gave permission for priests to forgive sins. It seemed to be directed more at the individual and makes much more sense. If you forgive someone for a perceived wrong, you are free they are free.
If you do not forgive it stays within you festering until it becomes something that it was not originally.Exactly.
We all should seek closure and that closure is yours not some imaginary God's who cannot possibly be hurt by anything that man can do.
Be you a sinner or victim, all deserve closure and that is man to man, not invisible absentee God to man.
Regards
DL
schoolgirlforreal
Have you seen God's list of penances.
Neither has any priest.
Regards
DL
It helps.
The priest acts as a catalyst to bring out your inner sorrows and helps you with inner healing. I do not suggest that you talk about bad things, but recognise the need for forgiveness, purity, dispassion obedience to God, and so forth. Frankly, even if your prayer was to a tree, you will get help. It just requires an intensity of faith. Our Lord is inside your heart and already knows your needs. Prayer brings you closer, assuages guilt, and enhances transformation through the Soul's Light.
Bear in mind, that you are invoking God, and that all healing takes place from within. The Supreme is your Inner Pilot.I don't confess to nobody. The Lord knows what I been up to and Jesus paid the price. I put him on that cross because of my sin. I figure he can read my mind, and if I done something bad, feel guilty, and quit my sinning, then the Lord is good with that.
Humility and public self-flogging is a great form of self-aggrandisement.
Repent sinner and stop trying to profit from God's murder of his innocent son.
Jesus asked you to pick up your cross and follow him. Not ride him as your personal beast of burden and scapegoat.
Regards
DL
why would anyone go to a mere man to confess their sins when Jesus is the only person who can take sins away...Man did not die on a cross for you. Jesus died on a Cross for your sins..
And you feel quite comfortable in trying to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered do you?
The one you sinned against is the one to ask forgiveness from. Not someone you cannot possibly hurt unless your head is so swollen that you think you can hurt God.
If you punish your child in error, do you ask his forgiveness or God's?
Whose forgiveness is more important?
Regards
DL
I would never confess my sins to a priest, unless I had directly sinned against him and wanted to ask his forgiveness. What on earth can the priest do? Your sin would still be unconfessed to God? Jesus died for our sins, and HE became the High Priest....the Mediator between God and man. That means that the old levitical priesthood is no longer valid or useful because Jesus is right there in Heaven, interceding for our sins. He is alive! I am so thankful that because of this, I can go straight to God, get on my knees, and confess my daily sins to Him (and yes, we ALL sin every single day) and know that I am forgiven.
Let me repeat.
DL And you feel quite comfortable in trying to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered do you?
The one you sinned against is the one to ask forgiveness from. Not someone you cannot possibly hurt unless your head is so swollen that you think you can hurt God.
Human sacrifice is immorals and so is taking advantage of an innocent man being punish for you.
You may think Jesus saved your soul but you have sold it to Satan.
Watch what God does to you when you try to ride your scapegoat into heaven.
Regards
DL
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