The son of God is God

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Felixedet2000posted 12 years ago
Many Christians are not even remotely aware of this reality, Jesus is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. God is a mystery only to the carnal man.
Jesus is God, do you agree?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Christians are unaware of this??
  
  Isn't the whole tenet to the Christian faith is full believe that Jesus is indeed God (or at least one aspect of the three of God)?
  
  If you don't believe Jesus is God..Don't that make you of Jewish type beliefs and not Christian (Abrahamic type religions only)
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that Jesus is indeed God all the way, what about you?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What about other gods? Remember all are God's sons and according to you "The son of God is God". Are they god midway?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are gods midway certainly. We are gods for sure, the Bible said so. But there is only one God, who expresses himself in the form of three being. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
  These are but one God.
  
  While we are his children(gods).
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is god, everyone is god so what is the difference? And it is said there is only one god, now you say there are three and then you say there are a billion!
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the word was God. and the Word became flesh
  
  Yes, the man called Jesus today in English, Yeshua in His day in Hebrew is God come to earth in the same flesh body as us humans.
  
  Only His blood was completely sinless
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  jomine you are very right, we are gods. but not God
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "in the image and likeness of Himself, created them".
  "breathed into them the Breathe of Life**
  
  Elohim-elohim
  
  **Breathe of Life is translated ruach, pneuma, om, ki, chi, etc or the essence of Creator, the energy force that is Himself.
  
  "Ruach framed and is the worlds, everything in them."
  
  The man Y`shua ben Yosef, who was empowered fully {anointed; christos in the Greek} is no different than you and I, save his works of faith and not involved with doctrines/paganism/idolatry {aka false gods like Iesous -son of Zeus- from where the name Jesus comes}. Destroy the doctrine in you, before it destroys you.
  
  James.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eh? If we are gods, when I say it "I am god".
  s what you wrote will read like "I am god, I am not god". Blatant contradiction, if you ask.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ye are gods (elohim) IF we look at the whole psalm the message is about judgments concerning oppressing the poor and fatherless, justice to the afflicted and needy... another attributed word to elohim is judge.
  
  But if we look to jesus christ and recall the many healing works he did we could look at this "ye are gods" and determine that God pours out his spirit to willing flesh and thereby we can do the works of God would that not make us god-like?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And just who might that carnal man be? Since it seems that you are trying to belittle anyone who doesn't believe this ignorant, primitive, childish fraud.
  
  I will agree when there is irrefutable evidence. Until then, this is pure psychotic drivel.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want you to single anyone out here...A carnal minded person is a person that is dead in worldly affairs, spiritual things are meaningless to such a person, the reason is...There will be irreconcilable differences in the argument.
  Someone who belief in the spiritual is not carnally minded, I hope I have been able to clear any misconception you hitherto has regarding the details here;getitrite.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your understanding is completely absurd. Someone has been telling you exactly what to think, therefore you haven't the ability to discern reality.
  
  Car-nal~adj. Relating to physical, esp. sexual, needs and activities: "carnal desire.
  
  The opposite of CARNAL is INTELLECTUAL. And it appears that most atheist would fall in the category of intellectual.
  
  Who are these carnal people that you refer to? Perhaps it is the unenlightened, nonthinking believer who is the carnal minded simpleton that you reference.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  carnal is the opposite of spiritual biblically defined.
  To be carnal is to appreciate the things of this world to be spiritual is to appreciate the things God. One of Gods things is his book that many intelligent atheists cannot decipher, nor comprehend, or understand.
  
  There is a difference.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't have to agree to anything, this is purely a spiritual brain storming and i wish we can both stay focus and talk about what we know decently.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck with that
  
  The world is carnal and the men (and women) who run it.
  
  Not hard to understand why its in such a mess.
  
  Millions strive for power ,fame and riches, then call it success.
  
  Yes, we need a Saviour, someone to save us from our carnal minds..
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No... Christ was the consciousness and instead of trying to reach such heights, they follow the man and the events of his "life". And then it's also an issue of following a group consensus, it's nothing more than an opinion enmass. The idea that God is anything more than observation, is as crazy as it gets. We observe a world we barely understand and to that effect, we create special meanings that go beyond rational thinking. Of course then rationality is nothing without logic and reason and otherwise is just aother word.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Must we rationalize everything in life?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. But we must use reason and logic to analyse what is told, before trusting others blindly.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  misch - going beyond rational thinking is what makes something special, belief, faith in whatever, even one's own dreams for a type of success. So, yes, the words rational and logic don't go hand in hand but sometimes thinking outside the box, being illogical beyond all rationale, can bring about some great advancements in our worlds.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Going out of one's skull, often brings one to clarity... However, to take it as fact and having an inability to weigh it against reality, makes it stupid or crazy. I say stop fearing and pining over imaginary beings and places, enjoy life. If one should choose to live by punishment/reward systems, then I say "let them live in the delusion". On the other hand, I like religious folks, they remind me of how sane I really am. And to fully clarify my stance... If I have a God/god that I believe in, it's just a shade of my own personality traits, the same could be said of my devils.
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  Ruben Riveraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree but at the same time we can all be at the same level as well since God is everywhere then we are part of God, we limit ourselves because of our free will simple as that
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ruben - We limit ourselves because of our free will?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes our free will was suppose to be our greatest assets but obsession and greed for power has blinded humans understanding about their creator, God must be sick and tired of us because of who we choose to be.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This statement just proves you know nothing about being a human or even the human body. WOW!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, Jesus is Jesus. God is God.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mikel,you could have done better by simply saying who jesus really is in your own page. do you believe he is the sun of God?
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  Onusonusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they are both Gods.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Short answer is YES.
  Praise the Lord!
  
  Jesus was God in a human body. The same Spirit as the Father. The Father sent His own Spirit to be placed in (and "begotten of") the womb of a human woman Eve. When I say "sent", I mean sent as in the Father was still in heaven etc. but also manifested in the womb of Eve.
  
  The Word says in Colossians 2:9 that in Him (in Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. That declares Jesus's immortal deity/divine nature, yet still separates the Spirit from the carnal body (which we know was killed on the Cross, yet resurrected afterward).
  
  Secondly, even though Christians have that same Spirit inside us, we are not God nor "gods", never will be God nor gods. The Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are one and the same, just distinct manifestations of the same God.
  
  We humans are still just humans, but children of God when we accept Christ as our Savior. Jesus raised Himself from the dead, since he is God. We cannot raise ourselves from the dead nor change our bodies into Spiritual ones; God will do that when He comes back in the form of Jesus to gather His children.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High
  
  So you have not even read bible?
  Honestly, are you simple making things up, or have you more knowledge about Christianity than bible?
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  janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I dont think most christians actually read the bible.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ding! They read "verses" or are read "verses".
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Zing!
  Some do, only (usually nonChristians, not Believers, as evidenced perhaps by the person who tried to challenge me with that one verse).
  Some Christians do sometimes.
  Some read full Chapters and try to place all in the intended context, sometimes, while some try to all the time.
  Some take some verses at individual face value, yes.
  
  Personally, I'm with ya James in thinking that Christians should read their Bibles more, and yes whole Chapters and the whole thing.
  Might be an interesting discussion about which verses could actually be taken "individually", if you will....
  
  Personally, I think Genesis 1:1 stands solid by itself if need be, but of course it is highly expanded upon and highly confirmed by the rest of the Good Book.
  
  Or, in keeping with this thread subject, how about John 1:1?
  Or maybe John 1: 14?
  What say you, James?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  John 1:1 does NOT say Y`shua ben Yosef is GOD, it says the ruach {word/breath/spirit} was with God / was God and manifest {became man}...In him {word/breath/spirit} is Life & -watch closely- Life is the Light in man. The exact same phraseology is used in Genesis describing the breath of Life {ruach} put into man at his creation.
  
  There are several other "verses" -even "chapters"- that concur this.
  Petra confirmed Y`shua was the one appointed anointed, yes. And he was. But he himself said, on numerous occasions, we are his brothers/sisters, not to worship him but only the Creator, that we have exactly the same power he does, in us, if one would just believe it and walk in practical faith { kinda what the whole mission was about, yeah?}
  
  2100 years of Christian doctrine has proven he isn't and that the resurrection power is non-existent in them. That -for the record- is my beef with Christianity and why I zealously speak out about it.
  
  James.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then you simply don't have the basic understanding of the difference between the physical and the Spiritual.
  
  Jesus's body was physical. No wonder He didn't want us silly humans to view him in that body as an object of worship. Can you not remember how even in the Old Testament how the children of Israel made "gods" out of gold to worship because Moses took too long coming down from the Mount? Imagine the disciples worshipping Jesus in that physical body! In their frail human thinking, they would've been led to the conclusion that a physical MAN is worthy of worship. If you'll note, I'm pretty sure that the first time the disciples actually worshipped Jesus was after his transfiguration....(I may have to look that up for sure, but...) because that event allowed them to see that He was much more than a man, that it wasn't the physical image that proved His divinity; He transcended the normal image of a man with His power over gravity and the natural world.
  I'll reiterate----WE cannot do that. WE never will be able to. Now, you can probably say that a magician can, or that witches can, or whatever. But that too is either fake or evil or both. Christians aren't meant to be gods, period. We have a natural mother and a natural father. Jesus had a natural mother, yes, but His Father was/is a spirit, the Holy Spirit to be exact. And although that is our spiritual Father too (a born-again Christian's Father), we still live (and will die) in these mortal bodies, and we cannot bring ourselves back to life.
  
  Have you ever heard of the teachings of Witness Lee or Watchman Nee? (I'm sorry, but I don't recall if they're both the same teachings---I had a run-in with a follower of one of those, been a long time and I didn't delve too deeply into both, just saw and heard enough to know the teaching was false in regard to the Jesus issue)....
  
  Anyway, the teaching was that we "are" Jesus. Sorry, but neither the goal nor intent of being a Christian is to BE Jesus. We are to be His followers, His worshippers.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, I truly admire your zeal. But sometimes you make me tired.
  I refuse to argue with the religious any longer about this. If you believe the entire purpose of the resurrection was simply a ticket to heaven, then so be it. My experience with both great and small ministries, new age yogi star seekers, atheist sorcerers and the like have proven -have shown their fruit: and it is rotten. There is no Life in them, no matter how much they insist or pretend. They walk by doctrines/theories and not in any form of practical faith.
  To that end, my experience -although seemingly insignificant- is more than a person and express in words. And daily this Seed of eternal Life is growing...
  
  Enjoy the weekend and many harvests,
  James
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you'd throw out the baby with the bath water?
  
  Disappointment with nonChristian religions shouldn't make ya be disappointed with God.
  
  I get tired too.
  But my disappointment is with mankind, not with God. Let God be true, but every man a liar.
  
  But indeed I've seen good ministries, small ones, and I think some big ones too. The true Word doesn't return void, even if the messenger veers off the path. Another messenger will just take up where that one left off (and, hopefully, correct any misrepresentations).
  
  And I think you take the concept of a "ticket to heaven" waaay too lightly. It's not a simple thing. It's a miraculous thing. It's what the Lord died for! No goal could even ever be higher than that of having the opportunity to be in the very presence of God Almighty! Please don't dismiss it as some form of collateral issue or push it into insignificance!
  
  I hope you don't get mad at me for saying this, but I must say it------In my humanity, I hope you have a good weekend too! But in the Spirit, I hope your spirit cannot rest day nor night until you consider the awesomeness of His sacrifice upon the Cross!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  not to worship him but only the Creator, that we have exactly the same power he does, in us, if one would just believe it and walk in practical faith
  
  He said this while God was walking around in flesh. Jesus height of ministry was acheived after the cross in his ressurection. People were not to have their faith in a man but in God and God while in jesus body pointed the way to God but not because he wasn't God just because he was still in his earthly body. Which for the majority of time has not been on earth.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That passage is a reference to unjust Judges and unjust judgements by people who've been entrusted with the responsibility to represent God. Verse 2, notably, speaks about how God dislikes "the persons of the wicked" being accepted, actually! So that actually debunks the liberals' idea that God is tolerant of wicked actions! In that Chapter in Psalms, the author is speaking of how God wants the "poor and fatherless" to be defended and delivered from the hands of the wicked people. By the way, this is similar to the passage in the Bible which says that a main component of pure religion is to visit the widowed and fatherless. (You can search for that if you wish). Verse 6 of your referenced Psalm is simply telling those in authority that they've been entrusted with great power, so they should act responsibly with it, because (as verse 7 shows) they're humans, men, after all and will die like men, fall from grace "like one of the princes".
  
  Perhaps you'd like to actually read that part of the Bible, instead of trying to twist meanings for the purpose of insulting a child of the Most High (which being a Christian makes me, just like it makes all Christians!)
  I'll throw in a side note along with this for free--------
  All Christians are entrusted with a form of righteous judgement (how to judge right from wrong actions).
  
  Here's a question for you-----to whom do you think verse 5 refers? I'm not placing any bets, but....I think you might have a hard time figuring that one out too....or admitting it anyway.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  However hard you try to change the meaning, the words are "YOU ARE GODS". You can say the context is different, the meaning can change, but it does not say you are like god, it does not say you are like angels, it say you are son of god as addition. It doesn't matter what the previous verse or past verse says, it only mean what is written in that particular verse.
  If I kill somebody no amount of justification will change the fact that I killed. Or if it is written, to kill, a full volume preaching the virtue of love is not going to change the fact that it is written to kill.
  If you can, please show how 'you are gods' can be read 'you are not gods'.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree , but like everything else. We can not agree as to what that means. What exactly is a "son of God".
  Is a son of God created at the moment of conception, OR does this open the doorway for a son of God to enter into this physical realm?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The son of God is a reference to Jesus in his human nature. The truth is Jesus is the manifestation of the creator of mankind, this is not a fact, but is the whole truth of our totality. And by that i mean the entire humanity irrespective of race culture or traditions. Make no mistake about it, what he accomplishes are beyond the comprehension of the mortal man's brain.
  Jesus is God. Listen this profound statement of his is John 10:18 ''I lay it down of my own free will, no one takes it from me, i have authority to give my life and i have authority to take it back.
  The events and happening of his death are confirmation and a witness to this truthful statement of our Lord.
  Only God can do what Jesus did humanly, that's why the devil is called the prince of ignorance (Darkness) because he fails to understand God, thinking that he does (Pride).If As Christians our pride is in the lord, because we can do nothing without him; it’s an understanding that we have. People are following Satan because they think they will be free to do whatever they like at will; freedom they call it.
  And while these people are quite aware of what they are doing, they would rather have us in the dark about their real motives, it’s a mind game and we are not unaware of the devices of our enemy.
  Freedom outside of God is slavery and that's where the devil has turned this perverted world into, freedom freaks (Do you think you are really free indeed outside Jesus?). That freedom is perversity that is now the norm.
  These comment is not directed at anyone, especially Jerami.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we are gods. Gods with a little g!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you are a stone man!
  
  are you really?
  we forget about metaphors often.
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Does anyone realize that when God speaks of wicked He is referring to those that are outside TORAH?
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So...the son of the father is the father. I don't think even Peter would have bought that one!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No.
  The Son was a manifestation (in a human body) of the Father.
  God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit.
  God sent (a piece of Himself, if you will) to earth to prove His love for mankind.
  
  Why do people not get this?....
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  janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See how much i love you guys? Here, take my only son, and torture maim and kill him.
  
  Nice.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Would you have preferred that He had just let all of mankind die in our sins, blithely unaware of any responsibilities and consequences until we got to the lake of fire?
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  janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It seems more christians would be responsible for their sins if they didnt believe they could just be prayed away.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Christians don't view it as just "praying away" their sins. There has to be repentance before forgiveness can be received. Are you saying you think some people believe they can deliberately sin and not have to ask forgiveness?
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  janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes
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  janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well they think they can do things and then ask forgiveness. Which really doesnt mean anything, does it?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If they aren't sincerely sorry, I guess, no, it doesn't mean anything.
  Asking for forgiveness just for the sake of asking, without being repentant, isn't genuine. But God's forgiveness is always available for anyone, if they should choose to receive it.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is because there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Once you understand that many things will fall into place.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really. This is basically nonsense and claiming that you understand something that others do not is one of the reasons your religion causes so many fights.
  
  You do not understand.
  
  This is nonsense. Three gods and they all sit next to each other plus god jr sits at the right hand side, but god jr is actually god as well......
  
  Understand?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe explaining evo::poof::tion might be an easier task for you?
  
  Seem a little mixed up concerning your math there.
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry you don't understand basic biology. It must be very frustrating for you. You could always go back to school. I feel certain there will be adult learning centers near where you live.
  
  In the meanwhile - why don't you do what all the other religious zealots do and pretend to understand stuff about a majikal invisible super being instead of actually learning something?
  
  Oh wait................
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Moving on to Electromagnetic Force...
  
  Help me out on origin there then? It seems man doesn't know, but I'm sure you've got an explanation, since you figured out the first replicating cell from the implication of your response, that is.
  
  Are EMF and the Laws of Thermodynamics and Physics not more advanced than our technology considering the technology is based on pre-existing principles of these fundamental Laws of existence?
  
  Where did all this sophistication beyond human intelligence, that is consistent btw, come from?
  
  Did it ::poof:: out of noffing too?
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't understand physics either huh? Really - try an adult education center near you. I feel certain there must be a demand for such a thing in your area.
  
  Meanwhile - keep on pretending to know stuff about a majikal invisible super being. All you need is the one word. Goddunnit.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Missed, or ignored, the word "...origin..." I see.
  
  Yeah, I guess I would say God "dunnit" rather than say it created itself..
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Awww - sorry you don't understand. Let me get this straight - anything science has not yet answered must be goddunit? Your god must be getting smaller every day. No wonder you are so angry.
  
  Really - do yourself a favor and go find an adult education center. I am more certain there will be one near you every time you say anything.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everything science explained has a "cause" Mark.
  
  What's the matter? Don't like the idea of authority?
  
  Or maybe you're jealous of the idea something is that much more intelligent than you are huh?
  
  "Awww - sorry you don't understand." - Should get that record replaced, or maybe you should get checked for alzheimers? It has become quite common you know.
  
  I guess we don't need engineers to design anything new any longer then. The most sophisticated all powerful systems that control the entire universe engineered themselves...
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No - I really am sorry you don't understand.
  
  I pity you.
  
  Seriously - go back to school - there are many answers to these questions you fill in with "goddunit," with no real understanding. I know things look complex to you - so complex, in fact, that you think it must be majik. But once you start to understand the building blocks - you will be able to drop the pretense of having a majik answer that means nothing.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Awww, don't get your panty hose all up in a bunch now. That's just no fun.
  
  So you KNOW the origin of EMF, the Laws of Thermodynamics, and the Laws of Physics? The "ORIGINS"?
  
  Cuz I fink you iz bwuffing mista. I fink you couldn't ansa the kwession if you had ta.
  
  Iz you bwuffing mista Knowles?
  
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do agree to a point. The truth is that Jesus is God, that's true, and most Christians are aware of it, even if many don't seem to actually believe it.
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  eaglecreekposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This has always been a confusing concept to me. According to the book of mark, Jesus sits at the right hand of The Lord, so is he sitting next to himself?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol! he is "beside" himself. {beside one's self: almost out of one's senses from a strong emotion, as from joy, delight, anger, fear, or grief}
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He sits at the right hand of God because he is God in the flesh. Does you son sit at the right hand side of you at the dinner table? Let us say his name is John, but he is also Eaglecreek in the flesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sitting at the right hand is an idiom.
  
  IT means that the work is done and that cessation and rest is happening. The right hand symbolizes a place of power and authority.
  
  So to say this is to say that jesus has finished his work successfully and now rests having obtained a place of power and authority.
  No way is this a literal saying
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  Mahmoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Watch this videols to know the truth:-
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLJMewkqrjE
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  Mahmoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Watch this lecture to know the truth:-
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i84obexj … re=related
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  Spaghetti Monsterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Children, children, children.
  
  Why all this bickering and fighting.
  I can easily answer this question for you.
  
  Jesus is NOT God.
  
  They are 2 different people.
  
  I should know, as just last night they were both having refreshments at my beer fountain. (And I tell you, they certainly can put away the fermented hop juice!)
  
  They were inspecting the extensions to my little corner of the galaxy, and were green with envy. Jesus said that he couldn't offer his followers anywhere near what I provide for those who have grasped hold of my noodly appendage.
  
  So I'm offering you the shelter and succour that only the Spaghetti Monstyer can provide.
  Free beer at the beer fountain, lashings and lashings of great food, and the stripper factory is now operating 7 days a week.
  
  You're all welcome under the sheltering strands of the Spaghetti Monster.
  And you'll be free of having to wonder whether I am my son or not, and other unanswerable questions.
  
  And Jesus asked me to change my profile picture and give you this message:
  Shut the **** up!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hilarious though, your just a funny comedian.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just not so much funny as plain rude and disrespectful.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  vector - come on. Jesus has a sense of humor. It is really funny. If there was no God there would not be humor. Lighten up.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am one of the most sarcastic, joke oriented people on this website. I'm at least in the top 50 on the entire site.
  
  I do not find anyone stating Christ is not God, and proceeding to mock him out of lack of consideration humorous in any fashion whatsoever.
  
  And I'm praying for Him. Because Christ is the only thing that can save any soul on this planet.
  
  I know you have a reply. I'm done for tonight. Really tired and still have work to do.
  
  Goodnight
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes sarcasm is a strong trait in you, and you use your vipers tongue well to do the work of your beliefs. And yet when someone else does the same you mock them. That is hypocracy. I'll say a little prayer for you so you can find Christ inside of you. Once you've done that you will be saved and Jesus will be happy, The sword of truth is light once you use it on yourself. Sleep well.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well thanks almighty judge of the heart.
  
  I slept great, ignorant of the fact I was being publically condemned...
  
  I guess it's a good thing I don't have a fragile ego, or much of one at all or I'd probably be upset.
  
  If I pick at someone, and they genuinely tell me I upset them, please don't joke with them... I apologize and I don't pick with them anymore. ATW is one of those people. I'm not here to mock in disrespect, but in good fun. You should note some of the people that laugh and poke back. I guess they are vipers too..
  
  You should try it. I can be sweet as honey when people aren't criminalizing me. I don't mock to disrespect. Not intentionally, and when pointed out I adjust accordingly.
  
  Man, I must say, you lay the imagery on thick don't ya? VIPER..
  
  Maybe it's because I quote and point people to read scriiptures for themselves?
  
  Ugh..
  
  Well, I suppose "laughter" is out of the question if you go to be with God huh.....
  
  - Sorry, I killed myself with that last one...
  
  Why don't you ease up on telling people things you don't know are in my heart huh? Do that for me? Sincerely?
  
  I'm glad you've concluded I'm evil out loud though. Lets just say I use sarcasm because I don't call people vipers and such. I like the light-hearted approach.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are most welcome and I'm glad you slept well. What is in you is clearly portrayed in writing on these pages. It's like a petticoat dangling from a skirt.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well whatever your perception, I'll state it again...
  
  God's opinion is the only opinion that counts. Period.
  
  No one else's thoughts on me matter save God's.
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So it shall be.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Jewels.
  
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  Cardisaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son, so that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  
  The verse said that God sent His only birthed son. Begotten is the past participle of the word begot which is the past tense of beget. Beget means (according to the dictionary) to father; sire, to produce.
  
  Jesus is of God but he is not God. I am Christian and I believe in the Christ but I do not confuse Jesus the son with God. There is nowhere in the bible that refers to Jesus as God, Yaweh, Jehova, or any of the names of the Almighty.
  
  From the prophecies it was always fortold that God would be sending his son to be sacrificed for man.
  
  Moreover, Jesus himself prayed to his father. He asked his father, "why hast thou forsaken me?"
  
  There are many verses in the bible that proves that Jesus was the son on Th Almighty God, why is there debate as to his paternity?
  
  Didn't the bible state that God appeared as a spirit and impregnated Mary? How could Jesus be Jehovah?
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  felix, it is true, many that call themselves Christian do not know that Jesus is God.
  
  These things can be revealed only by His Spirit.
  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matt. 16: 17
  
  So, therefore, Father we ask the You reveal the truth in Your own way and in Your own time for those that are seeking to know truth. We ask that You make Yourself real to each one as You know they will recognize You.
  
  WE really need a Hebrew lesson to understand the terms used.
  What does the word God mean? Where did the English word come from?
  
  Yeshua is Jesus name in Hebrew. He is Jewish and never was a Christian. The word Christ is from the Greek meaning 'Christos' or 'anointed one'. The One that is empowered to destroy the yokes of evil.
  
  Jesus is also known as the son of God. This means perfect image of God. As humans the only was we can 'understand' the invisible God is by symbolism.
  
  gnosticism means knowledge without revelation and since revelation comes only by illumination of the Spirit or Ruach HaKodesh, those that are more concerned with earthly things will not be able to grasp the things of the Spirit.
  
  We have been entrusted with revealing the Living Jesus to others. We have to take a lot of time getting to know Him before trying to show others He lives in us.
  
  God is NOT interested in sending anyone to hell.
  
  On the contrary, He longs for all to come to know Him as chesed, as Peace, as Joy, as Comfort, as Strength, as Protector and Defender, as Nurturer and Sustainer...
  
  As believers in Jesus, we must ask and keep asking for revelation knowledge. As believers in Jesus, when we speak of Him with one another, it is called Midrash and He reveals Himself more and more and more.
  
  Our Father does send us into the world to preach the gospel of the kingdom. And desires that all be able to grasp the truth of His amazing love.
  
  The instant we tell someone they are 'wrong' it puts them on the defensive and there is no way they will hear a word we say...
  
  We do need to find common ground and revelation knowledge will show us where that is and how to show Him to the world.
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  faceytheshayraeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
  
  Remember the Trinity. The trinity is the make of three ELEMENTS in a being; The Mind, The Body and The Spirit.
  
  God: The Mind
  Jesus: The Body (Which also holds the mind of God as well as the spirit of God)
  The Spirit: The Spirit
  
  Jesus is the physical form of God. So his is in fact God. Just God in physical form, born from human beings, came to Earth to give us a message as a human being so that we can relate to him in some sense, since he had to go through tests and trials to give us a message and save us or TRY to save us from the "wrong path."
  
  We are made is God's image and likeness. Which is Adam and Eve. We are the children of God if we accept it. No matter what we are born as children of God from the beginning. Just because you are saved doesn't automatically make your the child of God. You already are. Religion is about ACCEPTING that fact. Anyway.
  
  Yes as a human being you are a god. But not the kind of god, or gods and goddess or God himself, themselves, whoever that is thought. No. Humans are more of a demigod. However, if you want to be humble, you believe yourself to be just and ordinary being who lives, crawls, eats, learns and lives with all the other creatures who came from the same origin. No better, no less. Just the same. That is after all what religion is always trying to teach.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think the metaphor is seriously lacking...
  
  "The son of God is God"
  
  We understand that from the perspective of a father/son relationship, the son is a separate entity from the father. Even the Nativity story shows Him to have entered our world in the very same way humans gestate and are born. To then state that the son is the father makes no sense using the Nativity story as a reference.
  
  It would have made more sense to compare The Father, The son and The Holy Ghost to that of H2O, in which it comes in various states; liquid, gas and solid (water, steam and ice)
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
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  assignmentswizposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus cannot be the son of God for one simple reason, God need not a son and God need not adopt the needs and behaviors of humans. It is an insult to intellect to assume such stances. If God can create he need not beget. There is no good reason to send a son to humanity in the form of Jesus when God can create someone to deliver the message.
  
  God has no associates, friends or sons. He fits one category and us and Jesus fit a different category. Humiliation of a son and his painful crucifixion adds nothing to his argument to humanity.
  
  No sons for God, only creatures of God.
  
  I paraphrase one french philosopher. It is impossible to use logic to change the minds of those who have entered into certain beliefs emotionally.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Assignmentswiz you are correct God could have sent a messenger but it would not have had the same value. Adam was Gods first fleshly son in Gods own image. But Adam failed the test and sold mankind into adamic death, which included sickness and old age. For Gods creation to not become extinct, because man has not had a good record of governing himself, God needed another perfect man as a ransom to purchase mankind back from the curse which had be fallen them. God needed a perfect life for a perfect life. No longer were animal sacrifices required, as Jesus was the perfect sacrificial symbolic lamb. The life force is within the blood, this God requires back from each and every one of us, as this is the soul the life force.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May I also point out, that this ransom would have been nul and void, if Jesus Christ did not remain faithful until death, and if he had accepted the kingdoms of the world etc which satan had offered him.
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  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know that they were not waiting for a Christ, they were waiting for a Messiah
  John 1:41 KJV
  He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is , being interpreted , the Christ.
  The interpreters/translators added the word Christ, and changed the name to Jesus from the true Hebrew name Yehowshuwa.
  'The Christ' is Satan's official title, who is promoted by most religions including Helen Blavatsky and the New Agers
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for telling me these things, I already know about Madam Helena Blavatsky, Alice Baily, Benjamin Creme..I also know about the maitreya being the christ which they are waiting for. I also know that the whole world will be made to worship this entity. I also know the hebrew name of Jesus, but I do not have the time to translate every name in the bible, as long as I know who they are and what they represent thats all I am dealing with right now. I know there will soon come a time when everyone will have to jump ship and get out of Babylon The Great the great harlot.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for telling me these things, I already know about Madam Helena Blavatsky, Alice Baily, Benjamin Creme..I also know about the maitreya being the christ which they are waiting for. I also know that the whole world will be made to worship this entity. I also know the hebrew name of Jesus, but I do not have the time to translate every name in the bible, as long as I know who they are and what they represent thats all I am dealing with right now. I know there will soon come a time when everyone will have to jump ship and get out of Babylon The Great the great harlot.
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  assignmentswizposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Shikinah,
  
  Adam and Jesus are no more the sons of God than is Toyota and Nissan to the Japanese. God has creation not children. It is a very simple thing to understand but I guess belief defeats common sense.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Common sense dictates that there is no Invisible Super Being.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are entitled to your own theories, but I am going by what the Holy Scriptures say. I havnt a clue what God you are referring to and what you have said dont make sense to me either. From time began Gods have always had sons, from the Greeks to the Romans, so why should the creator God not have a son?
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  assignmentswizposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  because he is the creator. he is different realm.
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  assignmentswizposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  below are qualities of God,,as I said it is different realm.
  The All-Merciful
  4 The Absolute Ruler
  5 The Pure One
  6 The Source of Peace
  7 The Inspirer of Faith
  8 The Guardian
  9 The Victorious
  10 The Compeller
  11 The Greatest
  12 The Creator
  13 The Maker of Order
  14 The Shaper of Beauty
  15 The Forgiving
  16 The Subduer
  17 The Giver of All
  18 The Sustainer
  19 The Opener
  20 The Knower of All
  21 The Constrictor
  22 The Reliever
  23 The Abaser
  24 The Exalter
  25 The Bestower of Honors
  26 The Humiliator
  27 The Hearer of All
  28 The Seer of All
  29 The Judge
  30 The Just
  31 The Subtle One
  32 The All-Aware
  33 The Forbearing
  34 The Magnificent
  35 The Forgiver and Hider of Faults
  36 The Rewarder of Thankfulness
  37 The Highest
  38 The Greatest
  39 The Preserver
  40 The Nourisher
  41 The Accounter
  42 The Mighty
  43 الكريم The Generous
  44 The Watchful One
  45 The Responder to Prayer
  46 The All-Comprehending
  47 The Perfectly Wise
  48 The Loving One
  49 The Majestic One
  50 The Resurrector
  51 The Witness
  52 The Truth
  53 The Trustee
  54 The Possessor of All Strength
  55 The Forceful One
  56 The Governor
  57 The Praised One
  58 The Appraiser
  59 The Originator
  60 The Restorer
  61 The Giver of Life
  62 The Taker of Life
  63 The Ever Living One
  64 The Self-Existing One
  65 The Finder
  66 The Glorious
  67 The One, the All Inclusive, The Indivisible
  68 The Satisfier of All Needs
  69 The All Powerful
  70 The Creator of All Power
  71 The Expediter
  72 The Delayer
  73 The First
  74 The Last
  75 The Manifest One
  76 The Hidden One
  77 The Protecting Friend
  78 The Supreme One
  79 The Doer of Good
  80 The Guide to Repentance
  81 The Avenger
  82 The Forgiver
  83 The Clement
  84 The Owner of All
  85 The Lord of Majesty and Bounty
  86 The Equitable One
  87 The Gatherer
  88 The Rich One
  89 The Enricher
  90 The Preventer of Harm
  91 The Creator of The Harmful
  92 The Creator of Good
  93 The Light
  94 The Guide
  95 The Originator
  96 The Everlasting One
  97 The Inheritor of All
  98 The Righteous Teacher
  99 The Patient One
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  100 The Father
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I like that french quote assignmentswiz.
  
  Shikinah, can you see how "the Father" is a metaphor? Making sure you have a broader understanding of the term. Does not refer to an arms and legs entity.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have only quoted from what is written.
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Window Painposted 12 years ago
No, I don't agree.

The semantic gymnastics involved is these discussions eventually leads to "If God doesn't want me to drink this whiskey - let him strike it from my hand!"

We only find that which we seek. If we're only seeking justification, that's all you'll find in religion.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think so Window Pain, rather the semantic gymnastics involved in these discussion eventually leads to ''The audacity of the Word of God''
  
  This is a very broad topic if you will agree with me, few words but endless conclusions.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have to go with Window Pain on this. We find only that which we seek, whether we're conscious of that seeking or not. We draw to us that to which we continually place more and more energy and focus. Maybe you're both saying the same thing. For you, it's the Word and the understanding of it. for someone else, they only want to be justified.
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Jewelsposted 12 years ago
There seems to be, and I agree with the consensus that Jesus is not God. Jesus was a man, human just like us who walked a path that enabled him to attain the state of Christ Consciousness.

God does not have arms and legs. Jesus has arms, Buddah did also and both attained this great state of being.

The quest of Jesus was to show humans what we are capable of.

Therefore, we are all the 'sons of God' and we are all capable of walking the same path, but very few do and very few succeed.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewels, God is God and he is exactly the same way we are, with all the attributed that you and i have, if you are a good student of the Bible, you will comprehend him the more.
  Jesus is called the son of God, so that we can understand how close our God can be with us. The good thing is, even those who kill him, he prayed for them, how much more will he intercede for those who refuse to acknowledge him?
  The truth stands, no matter what our little brain can fathom.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Little brain? WOW!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, we mortals are so arrogant in our ignorance, refusing to acknowledge the true source of knowledge.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one is ignoring where our knowledge comes from. There are just some of us that don't jump to conclusions about where it comes from, like you for instance. The fact you are claiming to know exactly where it comes from only proves you're not as honesty as some others. That's all.
  
  Why do you act the way you do? Probably, because you don't know any better. And, that's the real shame.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's quite cheap Cagsil, i know more than you can ever imagine in this whole world. Yes i say so and you'll find that out sooner or later if life tarries for us both.
  Do you belief in perversity? And that it is the reason why we turn things round in this miserable world of ours?
  It’s true we can do whatever we like, justifying what we think is right and wrong is a matter of conviction.
  Yes, so many of us here are ignoring the source of our wisdom and this make our comment so shallow, i don't act.
  I educate and enlighten others the same way i get enlightened and educated by others.
  I am giving out what i have and that's what yours truly is good at.
  I am a student of history and i love interacting with people,
  The source of wisdom is God and if you are not remotely aware of this you better be.
  Your comment though is against what you want to claim.
  No shame in saying what one is convince about.
  The bigger shame is denying what you know.
  i hope you are clear now?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. Your actions say otherwise.
  Says your belief.
  Subjective based on one's individual perception, which is based on one's individual knowledge and discerned wisdom. Do I believe in perversity? No. Does it exists? Only in the minds of those who haven't anything else better to do with their time.
  Things would turn around quite nicely if the religious folks would stay out of other people's life.
  And your point? If you have one?
  See, that's where you've made the mistake in your thinking. To think that our wisdom comes from any other source other than ourselves is utter nonsense. When utter nonsense comes into play, it is deemed "stupidity in motion".
  Really? So far, I have learned lot about you, but I'm sure you've learned nothing about me. It's okay, I don't mind. And, yes your next response is expected and if you don't mind, it isn't my ego talking, nor is it arrogance, which I am sure are your conclusions to my statements. Just to let you know, if your own individual awareness isn't high enough, then you're likely to miss seeing ego driven actions, which most of your actions so far have demonstrated. The simple fact that I am pointing them out to you, isn't to be disputed by saying I'm arrogant or egotistical.
  
  I wrote about the Ego. I know it's damaging effects. So, don't go there.
  At least you have convinced yourself of that.
  Good for you. As if it matters.
  Conjecture and BS.
  Only to the limited minded.
  
  Really? I know more about me, the human and your fictional G/god than you do obviously.
  Yes, you've made yourself clear. And, NOW I have too.
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! You've sucked me in Felix and I have to respond - the TRUTH is never found in a book. "If I am a good student of the bible!" Please don't every think that my truth is found through a book. It is only ever found within. Do you understand what the term "The Kingdom of God is within" means?
  
  If you are a good student of the bible! Jesus - please save me from your followers for they know not what they do. Please apologize for that silly statement felix, it's really insulting.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I said it Jewel, i wanted to response to Cagsil before yours, but your comment is always amusing me down the marrow. And I can’t wait to brighten you up a little.
  May be you have to agree with me for stating that you are indeed improvising your belief in Christianity before now, just as you have indeed confirmed any doubt about that statement.
  You know very little of the Bible Jewel.
  Firstly; you can’t really know what you don't belief, can you?
  How can you claim to know the Bible and Jesus without believing in them?
  If you really know what you claim, then you will really believe in the Son of God wholeheartedly, because the word of God (Bible) is Jesus (The son of God) personified; do you know this just for a start Jewel?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear dear dear!!! Again you are misunderstanding your own doctrines. We are all the sons of God. The word of 'God' is also found in the Kabbalah and the bhagavad gita. You have tunnel vision if you think the word of God is only found in the bible. Jesus was a human, his life was intended to show you how to get to the kingdom of heaven - which is within. Full stop!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ''Things would turn around quite nicely if the religious folks would stay out of other people's life.''
  Cagsil, This world is not a product of chance OK?
  There is a coordinator of things and that is God.
  We are not in anyone's life; rather it is the non-religious that ought to stay clear of our lives for goodness sake.
  Due to the rate of perversity we are witnessing in the world now, it's just too late for us to keep quite anymore.
  Evil has been dancing and having a filled day and we hope it was a nice time all along. Right now, is the time for the movement of the spirit of the Lord like in the days of Pentecost, even the monstrous Roman army were helpless against the people of Faith, how much more this perverse generation of ours?
  This is what the non-religious fail to understand and for eternity they will never fathom the truth, unless they change their orientation.
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awareposted 12 years ago
the sun of god. gives us life and lights the way. so no.
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Michael J Davisposted 12 years ago
I don't think how you interpret the myth makes it any less of a myth.
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
And how did you translate my statement regarding the lack of fruit in the religious, non-religious and other- to mean I am disappointed in my Abba?
Just the opposite.

I have witnessed 10,000 pp believe they have the devil in them, then that they were hearing God, then that they were anointed.

I have equally witnessed the Church-in-the-Wildwood's spew rhetorical fire-brimstone, until the point of tears and despair frightened people to the core.

I have witnessed the evangelical missionary steal bread from the poor of Malawi as he sat shaking hands with their king, at the United Nations.

I have witnessed atheists, scientists, sorcerers, Aquarian Yoga Masters, Star Trek Generation X, pour snake oil and zen down the throats of millions for their organizations and proudly display their relics in their museums/churches.

None are "messengers" of Creator. Nope, not a one.
Where is the true fruit? Hmm.

There is no "concept" of resurrection, nor its purpose. It was done to show everyone what they are supposed to be -and show they are able to be restored to that pre-Adamic Inception stasis- by real and genuine practical faith. I do not take the event lightly at all. If fact, it is the foremost thing on my mind.
And from what I have witnessed and can testify, openly, it is the farthest thing on everyone else mind -or heart. "Okay, I'm saved, thank ya Jesus", glory t`God. Now let's eat" to paraphrase the "elect".

Being in the "presence" is not a goal, it is a reality when a person let's go of mind, ego and fear, and enters into the kingdom within, which reigns forever and causes each one to have death pass-over them and pass from that death to eternal Life; where the Water of Life, the power of the Creator {Spirit} flows endlessly through them, bringing forth the fruit of Eternal Life.

No, I am not mad, crazy maybe, but not mad. lol.
PS, He is not on the cross anymore, nor in the cave. Get passed it.

Am completely at peace and my spirit even more peaceful.

❣
James.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed He isn't on the Cross anymore!
  But until all sinners that are gonna be saved, are saved by recognizing that Sacrifice on that very Cross and accept Him as their Lord and Savior, that Cross with the Sacrifice upon it has to be remembered, for without it and the subsequent Resurrection, there IS no Salvation to be obtained...by anyone at all!
  
  And indeed, even I (and you, if you're really a Believer) cannot just "get past it"! There's no reason to even want to "get past it", because its purpose is to stand there in time (in our memories)as a testament to the great Love that led up TO that sacrifice. The fact that you say you're completely at peace is....worrisome for this Christian, as it should be for all Christians. Because Christians have a burden for lost souls; that's what the Great Commission is all about. The Church I grew up in had that. And I've seen several since then that have that. I'm sorry you've never seen any, and I hope God leads you to one that does. Better yet, I hope He leads you to a better understanding of that Cross and its purpose so that you can be one of those who carry the legitimate message on to lost souls!
  
  Ah, well, I think we've had this conversation before. So be it.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The true fruit is inside, the nectar. It is glorious and beyond words. It is an experience that far outweighs suffering on behalf of lost souls. When in that state there are no lost souls.
  
  We are all the emanation of "God" or whatever else you want to call the source of all things. There is a pure archetype of man and we all have within us the ability to return to that pre Adamic state. Yes Jesus was the son of God, so am I. I don't excuse my arrogance as Jesus wants it no other way.
  
  Suffering for fallen souls doesn't achieve a thing. It keeps you laden in black soot.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense. Jesus's suffering for lost souls accomplished that thing called Salvation. You can make light of it if you want to, but you would be wrong.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not making light of it Brenda, I believe the views are skewed. But that will remain so until there are more bridges crossed. Go deeper and you may start to understand. Go inside yourself, you be as Jesus was Brenda and then you can fathom what I'm saying. Don't worry about the books. Be the compassion you want to see, be compassionate toward yourself. Love yourself and understand what that really is as an experience. When you do it inside then it spreads outside. That's how it works. The Kingdom of God is within. That's where you will find your salvation, nowhere else.
  
  Suffering is an external emotion. Go into a room of suffering people and it is gloomy, heavy, weighted down, like walking into a black smoke stack. What good is that to humankind. Don't suffer. Be amazing. There is no shallowness in that and I am not wrong. You do know that suffering is an ahrimanic force? Suffering in itself is counter to everything Jesus wanted.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You make it sound like Christianity is always gloom and doom. It isn't.
  But as far as being serious about a burden for lost souls, and suffering that way, well, I'll have you know that Christians are commanded to "take up" our "cross" and follow Jesus. He Himself said that, I believe. I can go look it up if you want. Hey, what am I saying?---you can look it up yourself if you want to, I bet. And indeed He said it because, even though He doesn't enjoy seeing us suffer, He knew and knows (and we know) that there will be times of suffering. Mankind cannot get around that fact. It's been so since the fall in the Garden, and the only way we will ever be delivered from that death sentence is Spiritually, when we give our hearts, minds, souls to Jesus (become born-again).
  
  Deeper? Excuse me, but the Bible is deep. It is the word of God. You say don't worry about the books?! Ya know, it's really irritating and saddening when people want to separate God from His written word. The word itself says His words are life. Why do you try to sway me from Life into death? (Apathy, not taking God's word seriously, can lead to spiritual death). Although there is huge joy in knowing the Lord, we cannot be drawn into seemingly-benign apathy, for this is serious business.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Taking up your cross means you take your own sins, you resolve them. You don't resolve other peoples, you resolve your own. That's your cross to bear.
  
  The bible is deep if you actually do the work within it. It's not enough to just read the scriptures. Sorry you feel irritated, but now you must understand how it feels when someone else is following a path of and it gets invalidated. It's a terrible.
  
  I'm not trying to sway you, and I am in no way apathetic to spirituality. But you have to embody the work, not just read it. You must understand that part? I have to ask that because I get really confused when modern day christians say Jesus will do it for you. Taking up your cross and doing the work is YOU doing it, not someone else. This is what I'm saying. Regurgitating scriptures is not doing the work, unless you are applying the teachings to your own transformation. If you are doing that then you've nothing to worry about and you don't have to defend yourself. Take up your cross and follow Jesus - do what he did and you'll be a very happy woman.
  
  Christianity followed and practiced in it's true original form is not doom and gloom.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing you said has "invalidated" Christianity, nor the Bible, nor Jesus. Nothing can invalidate it.
  Sorry to bust your bubble.
  
  I already said that Christianity isn't all doom and gloom. Why do you repeat it like it is?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you're not reading what you wrote. You were the one who said I inferred Christianity is doom and gloom. I didn't say that. I was referring to suffering and the interpretation or misinterpretation of what was asked by Jesus. I don't think I was invalidating Christianity persee. I was referring to your statement that you felt saddened and was getting irritated. I felt I was addressing people who call themselves Christians yet don't walk the talk. That's it in a nutshell. Be as Jesus was and you'll do fine Brenda.
  
  I've not had my bubble burst so no need to be sorry.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto on the "Nothing can invalidate it."
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed.
  But they do try, don't they? It's like watching someone tryin' to swim up a waterfall.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes they do. And I couldn't have said that better.. lol
  
  I don't get it. But goodness they are persistent.
  
  I'm so young, but I feel so dag nab old Brenda... LOL
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See vector it is humans at large who are trying. This forum is not solely about them v the rest of the world. This is religious division which sadly is what Christianity has become. And you are a testament to the division. It is counter to the true teachings. But you have to experience the teachings to get that.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 10:34
  
  34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
  
  Luke 12:51-52
  
  51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
  52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
  
  John 7:40-43
  
  40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
  41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
  42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
  43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
  
  Matthew 10:34 Commentaries
  
  You were saying?
  
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Odd you should say that. I've pretty much always felt that way. And my best friend since childhood says she's always felt the same way. We were both raised by Christian parents who took the facts of life (especially Spiritual Life) seriously. Actually couldn't have asked for any better teaching. The focus on such deep things does make childish things disappear rather quickly. Is that what you mean also, or are you just in need of rest/recoup?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Deep? I haven't found to many religious folk who can grasp thinking deeply. It's something most cannot wrap their mind around.
  
  That is what makes me wonder about 90% of the 2.1 billion Christians. Most are willful ignorant because they don't think for themselves, but spew out the same garbage they have been taught since birth.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The naysayers' trash is the Christians' treasure. A scrap from the Master's table is better than a feast of unbelief.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The irony in your statement is YOU do enough damage that no one else has to say a word to trash it.
  Pure irrationality. Jesus would be proud? NOT!
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. Think you hit the nail absolutely square there actually.
  
  No rest until the work is done. And the day isn't over yet.
  
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He is your strong tower and shelter from the storm. When you do get the opportunity to, rest under the shadow of His wings. You know He is all those things to you and more, brother.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And there's nothing like watching willful ignorance in action. It's almost so sad it's funny.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Awww.. Just look at those precious little eyes when he rolls them Brenda.
  
  Aint he just the cutest?
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh WOW!
  
  Usual tactic. No point. Adding meaningless posts to thread. And generally not a good hubbing example.
  
  Oh joy. You've managed to show everyone how limited your individual character actually is. I certainly hope you're proud.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hahahaa. A bit of levity.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True Brenda, life can be like swimming up a waterfall.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lovely, Jewels. Thank you.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Most welcome Motown
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Philippeans 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him,
  
  Acts 14:22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said.
  
  Hebrews 10:32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering.
  
  Jewels you really dont have a clue "suffering" is what develops the Christ spirit. Jesus said "pick up your torture stakes and follow me" your teachings
  are the opposite of what the scriptures teach.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear confused one - people suffer because of ignorance and fear. If you are suffering - get with the program and follow in the footsteps of Jesus, do as he did. Again - spewing scriptures does not an enlightened one make! Jesus did not intend for you to read and read and read and spew forth your understandings on people. He meant for you to be the example of his work. If you can't do that, perhaps you need to pack up your pulpit and go back to basics.
  
  And while you're at it, write some hubs - that's what hubpages is for.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The sword of the spirit is the BIBLE people were willing to die for such a book. Yet you who call others ignorant and in fear teach teach a spirituality which is of eastern origin, which does not originate with Jesus Christ. As the scriptures say "that in the last days will come those that will teach good is bad and bad is good. The kingdom of heaven will one day be upon the Earth, but then again if you are too presumptious to think that you need the scriptures, is it any wonder that you don't get the understanding of it.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The kingdom of heaven is within. Try it. I understand scriptures - I don't have a problem with them. I do have an issue however, or I have sympathy for those who don't apply them experientially.
  
  The sword is that of truth. And the truth is only found within, never by an external source. The Bible has unfortunately become a watered down version of the truth. And those teaching from their pulpits who misunderstand the teachings of the bible will have a lot of trouble in the end days. You make sure you are reading the original one now and not the bastardized versions.
  
  Align with Jesus, walk in his shoes and transform yourself.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years ago
christians are funny
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We have a wide range of emotion and characteristics and talents. And a tenacious grip on the Truth. But mostly we have a powerful amazing God. Without Him we would be hopelessly lost just like the rest of the world.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? You have a grip?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, I'm hoping you are referring to Humans at large who have a wide range of emotions and characteristics and talents. Humans are amazing creatures. And when a human gets in touch with the core of themselves and sees that godlike quality - amaaaaazing. Without the core of ourselves, without knowing who we are as human beings we are hopelessly lost.
  
  And unfortunately most people are out of touch with the core of themselves. This is the main reason why religion is not working. Because when you speak of a doctrine that asks you to look to an external being for Salvation - you will never find it, and you will never be fully satisfied.
  
  The Kingdom of Heaven is within, it's inside you individually and only when you see this can you see 'heaven' externally.
  
  Christians are as lost as everyone. They think that fixing others fixes them. It is just not so.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah..
  
  You didn't know?
  
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Felixedet2000posted 12 years ago
This explanation make sence when believers of the gospel is in view, a good example for soul revival. But in this plase where you have fanatical pundits, the gospel is simply foolishness in thier psyche,and that is quite a pity anyway.
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
Brenda, for nearly a thousand years, the Hebrews carried the "burden" of the law of sin and death with them. That is quite a heavy thing to carry. Quite literally, they carried the burden in a box, wrapped in solid gold, around the desert -from place to place. That is no easy task.

Christians today still carry that same burden PLUS now carry a self-made, and complex burden of: salvation-marketing, doctrine-adherence and such. Yet, unequivocally, the true burden is peace & light. A message of liberation! A message of unhindered joy! Not joy with strings attached; not salvation by doctrine or death. Doctrine has tethered the ox while it treads out the field, once more, in the name of salvation. A giant millstone on the neck and stones on the backs of fearful slaves, just trying to "get through this" thing called life.

Yet salvation eludes the ones imposing the yoke, so they continue to add burden to the people. Why? Because they, themselves, lack the fruit of Life in them. And in their frustration to "build the kingdom" of heaven-earth on earth, add burden to the people, essentially telling them: "Make bricks without straw, and not one brick less than quota". Metaphorically, the brick being a person "saved". They continue to whip them, starve them, add fear to them, while they slave in the mud pits for the hope of doctrinal deliverance...

All humanity has been released from the burden of covenant and sin-death making everything accessible to us, once more. This is, was and will always be the "purpose" of the Work: to restore all things to the way they were before the Adamic Inception.

James.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Gods word says that all of man's Wisdom is but foolishmess to God. I sometimes wonder what He is thinking when He reads some of the comments on sites like these, where He is being chewed up and spit out!!!!!!!!!!
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant response James.
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Tunde Adegboyeposted 12 years ago
I agree that Jesus is God. It will not be too surprising to see some people disagree since only the spiritual can understand.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only the spiritual can understand?
  
  Now, that is certainly one joke of a statement.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's the dumbest comment I've ever read on HP... Do they have awards for that level of stupidity?
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  Tunde Adegboyeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do you measure dumbness and stupidity? I will like to know how high or low we measure on that scale. By the way it is a good observation that HP doesn't have awards that stupid.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The stupidity in it, is the belief that only christians have a spiritual nature. What part of biggoted and prideful are christians supposed to avoid?
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  Tunde Adegboyeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I now get your point, I suppose. But do not get it all wrong, every man has and is often believed is a spirit, by saying "only the spiritual can understand" is to paraphrase a statement from the Bible. And seeing your reactions to that statement shows that you really do not have enough info to refute the initial discussion.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's no need to dispute the initial discussion.
  
  The thread this in provides enough information-
  
  Religion and Philosophy- Christianity, the Bible and Jesus- Christian Mysticism- The son of God is God
  
  See the part where it says "mysticism"? It tells me all I need to know about the people who are going to post in this thread with regards to the belief of said OP was true.
  
  Mysticism is intellectual dishonesty of the individual.
  
  Therefore, the person who posted and those who agree? are dishonest.
  
  Fairly simple to understand really. No need to address the irrationality of "spirituality".
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only the spiritual can understand is not a joking statement Cagsil.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, just maybe you should have read the post above your post.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Quite cheap though, and a clandestine move to shy away from reality.
  We are followers of Jesus, who is a mystery to the carnal man's mentality and you have just confirmed that.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is a far simpler answer.
  
  You are deluded and do not actually have superior knowledge and understanding.
  
  This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you can hold a little brake when you get to a cross road. That’s a reference because i know what you will say next.
  About my religion, i like the way you see us as militant while you use the same rhythm with your comments whenever Christianity is in view.
  For your information, we are not blood tasty, we never ever were. Conflict is not part of us and has never been.
  If i may ask, are we the most violent religion in the world if violence is all you know about Christianity?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - I respond in kind. This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. It provokes and prods and nags and whines and generally causes conflict. Like you do.
  
  I understand why you need to hide your true identity though.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know me by what i say, because we are communicating with our mindset.
  I know you and you know me at least for who we are.
  My religion is better than a non-religion, and i happy to have access to that special privilege. Many are called but few are always chosen though. We are not all going to the same place after death, we have a choice to make and we have both made it already.
  My religion is not conflict oriented in anyway, only you can say so.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why, you are going to be cremated?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No - history backs me up. Your religion has caused many conflicts. You know we are going to different places after death? Am I going to be burned?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Depends on if your personal lack of insight means you indeed ::poof:: and disappear opposite Christ's teachings, never to have been known and with no reason to have been born..
  
  Kind of like we ::poof:: appeared out of nowhere..
  
  Just another worm in "evo::poof::tion" right Mark?
  
  lol....
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Reality? You're the one that believes in a G/god. Let's talk about who is dealing with reality?
  You're too funny. I know more about Jesus than YOU do. Your actions confirm it.
  
  If you don't believe me, then by all means, read some of the other posts I've made in another forum on HubPages.
  
  You lack the awareness of living in reality because you hold such a belief. So please.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  cagsil, you can know whatever you know in the whole world, i am good with that,But one thing you know not and i do know is God.
  As long as you don't know him you know just very little.
  Why not shun pride and be humble for a while?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting statement. I'm glad you show your dishonesty and you're open about it. I guess that there would be no logical or rational reason to expect you to be honest with me. Oh well.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There you go again Cagsil, thinking of what i am not. Just be calm for we shall sooner or later have a logical conclusion, i don't want us to miss out the opportunity once it comes. Your core beliefs are unique to you while mine is unique to me. Stand for what you believe and make yourself clear all the time, i am sure it is not an offense if you see me in that light, because that’s honesty as far as i am concern. Would you have preferred me to cut corners while arguing with you?
  Come on Cagsil, if you know Jesus, just how much do you know him?
  Who is he?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not thinking anything. I am looking directly at your actions, which display your own individual character, what you've managed to learn over the course of your life, how well you translated your knowledge into wisdom, what perception you use for your verbalization, which all tells you're dishonest.
  
  I cannot help you accept it. I can only point it out.
  Really? If you're talking about "judgment by G/god", as you believe it to be coming, isn't a logical conclusion.
  Beliefs? Oh, you're one of those who seems to think that just because someone speaks, all they say is just belief or opinion?...just great. Conversations with you would point to a waste of time.
  Oh okay.
  I don't have to worry about you cutting corners while talking with me. You're not honest to begin with and your actions have proven it.
  You're funny. Go check another thread- http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/97942
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tunde, I don't know who's been teaching you stuff on religion, but best you get a better teacher. You are missing some really important points to being spiritual.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for saying things like it is. Shame on ME ...
  Don't know why but i hAVE A HARD TIME not being too politically correct to say it like it is right down to the nitty gritty corect in its basic form an that which you so eliquently expressed. Hugh?
  
  I haven't read yet what the other guy said ???????? but what you said sounded so "right on" that it no longer matters who you were talking to.
  
  No offense whoever that was!
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Felix, unfortunately you are a disgrace to the teachings of Christianity. Clearly you don't fathom it's meaning. I feel sorry for you. May God have mercy on your soul, you are going to need it. Jesus on the other hand is more likely to clonk you on the head with a crucifix if and when he gets his hands on you.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo Jewel, You can still do better than this. Are you improvising your belief in Jesus or something else?
  Why not come out straight about God?
  Do you see me as anti-God or what, I'm already under the mercy of God.
  Jesus is my Lord, he is always with me wherever i go. what else do you have to tell me Jewel?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Improvising? You're kidding right. I have God straighter than you. You are at the mercy of ignorance and skewed perspective. That's why I find your words disgraceful.
  
  And I'm still waiting for your apology.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I care less if you have God straighter than me, but unfortunately you don't really know him. Otherwise you would have stated so.
  What exactly do you have in God? at least say it out so that everyone can bear you witness.
  
  If you know the God i am talking about here, what exactly is it that made you say i am a disgrace to Christianity?
  And by the way, are you also a christian like me?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The God you are talking about - there is only one God but it has no arms and legs. It is not a him, it is an omnipotent principle. For you to understand you need to have experienced this space of omnipotence yourself. See the principle within you. It's unmistakable. Way better than this being saved stuff.
  
  Now if you are referring to Jesus as your Lord and Savior (he is not mine by the way, I have other means), then you must begin to walk the talk, follow in his shoes. Now the fact you make these wide statements as are witnessed throughout this thread alone shows that you are not even close to walking in the shoes of Jesus.
  
  I don't need to state my relationship to 'God.' It's plain as day in my own self and I'm really comfortable with it. Shouting it on a forum as you and your friends says to me that you don't know the principle of God.
  
  Jesus on the other hand. now I'd love to meet the guy, I'm sure he would like me and I know I'd have a great conversation with him about hanging on that damn cross. Must have been bloody terrible.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Brenda wrote
You make it sound like Christianity is always gloom and doom. It isn't.
But as far as being serious about a burden for lost souls, and suffering that way, well, I'll have you know that Christians are commanded to "take up" our "cross" and follow Jesus.
= - = - =

ME
Yes and No. When Jesus said this, he was standing in front of and speaking to those people that he was walking through life with. (30 AD).
He also said that all of prophesy concerning HIM will be fulfilled within their generation, though no one knows what DAY it will officially be completed.
At that time Revelation had not been written so he wasn’t talking about everything written within that.
Jesus died on the cross to bring about that state which Jewels is describing. Or at least let it be known.
After all of this has been established THEN the seventh seal is opened. FINISHED.

Then another campaign begins. The seven trumpets are sounded against the Roman Empire. During which time the two beasts (rev.13) rise to power.

Though Jewels is saying something different than I, and came to her conclusions from a totally different perspective, we are arriving at the same destination. … I think?
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eaglecreekposted 12 years ago
Jesus has divine authority on earth, I think many confuse this with Jesus being an equal to The Lord.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jeus IS an equal to God the Father, He claimed it while here on Earth. The Pharisees certainly did not miss that point and were ready to stone Him for it.
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wheatbaybayposted 12 years ago
I believe that Jesus is separate from God the Father I think they are two separate entities with identical qualities the son mirrors the Father remember what the Bible says happened after Jesus was baptized?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes that's true; the father spoke and testifies about the son. The book of Hebrews also has a testimony of the Father referring to the son as God, and that his throne will be everlasting. It make sense to see them as separate entities in relation to our human psyche, but the trinity is nothing but one God, it's called the three in one God in the spiritual realm.
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  eaglecreekposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In Iaiah 42, Christians believe this is about Jesus. These are the words of The Lord himself speaking through his prophet Isaih. The Lord says he is sending someone, if Jesus is The Lord the Father, why does The Lord not just say “I” am coming, not someone else.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Because Americans are stupid, fat, lazy and narcissistic. Most of the time we take what is written at face value, instead of questioning our own. We're so stupid, we let Mcdonalds convince us it had healthy choice foods. A salad? Are you f'ing kidding me? Are we that dumb or is it that common amongst primates?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eaglecreek, that portion is That portion is half quoted, and it's not proper your ascribing the details the way you do. Jesus is not the servant of God, he is the son of God and you know that Eaglecreek. the son of God is a mortal man understanding of the mystery of God, because Jesus is indeed God.
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  wheatbaybayposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who is Christ when he dying on the cross himself? Before the guards come to arrest him who is praying to himself? If he is praying to himself there's meaning to the passion no purpose for it. "Father why have you forsaken me?" Did Christ not say this? "In my Father's house there are many mansions" did Christ not say this why not say in my house?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said that before he experienced Christ consciousness. In my Father's house there are many mansions: yes there is a Hindu mansion, a Buddhist mansion, a Moslem mansion, a pagan mansion, an original Christian mansion, a Fundamentalist Christian mansion, and heaps more mansions. There's also an Atheists mansion for the rationalists, they're welcome too! McDonald's eaters also get a shirt.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol
  
  FYI, although the Bible says there are many mansions in the Father's "house", nowhere does it specifically say that a Christian will have an actual "mansion", much less a Buddhist or Muslim etc.
  
  Jesus did say, however, that He goes to prepare a place for (His followers). Whatever place that is, whether it be what we'd call a "mansion", or if it's simply a tiny spot at His feet or near God, or a more wide-ranging existence in His presence, one should and would be forever grateful for it.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As expected, you missed the point. Not a surprise, but you did.
  Why?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda misses no point there Cagsil, Christianity is a mystery and you can not hope to comprehend it with the mind of a mortal. We are mortals that have willingly key into the kingdom of God reality, which is an immortal domain. We have renewed our minds and things of this world no longer apply the way we see and view them, can't you get it?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Then I guess YOU have no hope of understanding it either. So, do you actually have a point to be made or are you just trolling?
  Only in your mind dude.
  Apparently, from your talking, you don't walk the walk of a Christian or anyone who is knowledgeable of Christianity, much less LIFE itself.
  
  WOW! Utterly ridiculous!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know where you are going after death? are you conscious of that?
  you are only pretending and deluding your personality.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  After death? Only the gullible think there's something after death, even those who claim personal experiences, such as NDE. Consciousness isn't energy, therefore it will not transform after death.
  
  Once your heart stops pumping blood to the brain, the brain will starve and it will die. When that happens, consciousness of the individual will cease to exist.
  
  The fact that you know very little about the Human Consciousness isn't a surprise.
  Am I conscious of that? I have no need to be considering consciousness will cease at death.
  I'm not the deluded dude. But, nice projection of yourself though. Even if you're not conscious of it.
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  gamergirlposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OOH OOH!! I can answer this one!
  
  I'm going in a furnace, my ashes mixed with a can of paint, and that can of paint (hot, flaming, gay, neon pink) to be used to decorate dildos.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You see Brenda Christ Consciousness itself is not a religion. It is a state of being. It is a rare state attained by Buddhists and Hindus and anyone else who has the tenacity, will and integrity to try. Any man, woman or child has the ability to do this.. But alas they do not, they don't get it, they misunderstand time and time and time again.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but Christ can't be "channelled" nor used as a magic wand. He must be accepted as the Savior of our souls and for the God that He was and is and is to come.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Praying is waving a magic wand.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No that is not prayer, Christian prayer is all about communicating with the creator of all life in the universe.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you say so, then it must be true?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry? Who's talking about channelling? You can only have this state by accepting every nook and cranny of yourself. This state is something you embody. See the savior of our soul is the Self. And as the kingdom of heaven is within, you have to go within yourself to reach the kingdom. And in doing that and accepting all your terrible bits, all your glorious bits and opening yourself to the true experience of Love - you can experience what Jesus did.
  
  See? No channelling involved. Who's channelling? Cags, are you channelling?
  
  Be the Love Brenda.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As long as you have a picture of Jesus in your pocket it is OK to channel.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So Brenda is channelling Jesus? What a woman!
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know. But if she did then it would be ok by her if you did.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, I'm channeling my laughter.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm feelin' the Love Cags, feelin' it. I like this form of channelling. Brenda, are you feelin" it too?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a picture for you.
  
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you are not amused in any way Cagsil, don't make it look as though it funny. Come on, what's on your mind?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You couldn't handle a rational discussion. You're already one-sided and nothing you can do will change that, because delusion of oneself is something which ends up being destructive more so than being beneficial.
  
  And, I said something which was to make other people laugh. Not only myself. If you didn't find it to be funny doesn't mean other people didn't.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed Brenda.
  
  Well said.
  
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you can channel it to wherever you want Cagsil.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you talking to me but responding to someone else's post? WOW! Talk about not knowing things.
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gamergirlposted 12 years ago
Prayer is an individual's way of saying "Hey God(dess) - you don't have the right plan in place for me. Here, let me tell you how to do it the way I want it. Thanks!"
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  gamergirlposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ;-)
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gamergirlposted 12 years ago
I'm channeling.

Wait, no. I meant channel surfing.
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gamergirlposted 12 years ago
Love, love, love, love, love. <3
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Brenda Durhamposted 12 years ago
http://youtu.be/xogdeVoDWZY
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't need to suffer anymore Brenda. Laugh like the Buddah.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  She is making a whole lot of sense. Only that you refuse to see her point.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, not much of what Brenda says actually makes any sense.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Example of what she said that makes no sense is?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Too many things she says doesn't make sense. I'm not going to start pointing them out. I usually address them when I see them, like I am doing with you. Irrationality must be addressed and most of your statements are exactly that, just like hers.
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Felixedet2000posted 12 years ago
God bless you Chris , for it is the Holy spirit that reveal this to you.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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Jewelsposted 12 years ago
It was 'interesting' that Brenda posted that youtube clip. It proved the propaganda method associated with the teachings you are attached to. Mind you, this is not the real Christianity. Jesus would abhor what is happening here. The idea of the video is to keep Christians in that loop of suffering. It's like feeling sorry for Jesus actually, wallowing in his suffering. That's terrible. And the result of that wallowing is a clear disempowerment which is exactly what has happened to modern day Christianity.

Modern day Christianity is a classic example of the Ahrimanic agenda. It's more luciferic than heartfelt, yet there is this lulling into a false sense of faith - faith in something external - that's the false god. When you find an idol that is separate to yourself it is a false god. Fascinating how crafty and subtle the work of Lucifer is, in that those who follow in the suffering of Jesus are in fact caught in this luciferic loop. Moreso when you look at the hate and guilt and bigotry associated with modern christianity - you can clearly see it. So crafty is the luciferic influence, you don't know it's happening. Fascinating indeed.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is this a church of satan uprising?
  
  "When you find an idol that is separate to yourself it is a false god."
  
  You mean you are a equal part in God? I'm hoping you mean otherwise, because if you indeed mean what I think you mean, it's Anton Lavey's primary teaching. Self first...
  
  And you don't seem aware that calling Satan lucifer is giving him honor as he is called Satan because "satan" means "adversary."
  
  It gives him the "craftiness" you keep repeating by personalizing him as his followers do. They call themselves "luciferians" because they don't consider him the "adversary" [satan]. They serve him, so they use his name instead of the title given him to make things clear to the world by God.
  
  Christ said we [followers] would suffer. What Bible are you reading anyhow? Try Matthew chapter 5 for starters. Or what about the example the disciples gave us in following Christ? Were His own face to face disciples mistaken as well and caught in a "luciferic loop"??
  
  I see nothing clear in that post but opposite what Christ taught. I won't pull scriptures yet, but sincerely, I don't want anyone thinking that is Biblical.
  
  On the other hand, if you are teaching something other than the Holy Bible containing the four Gospels and 12 disciples, then I have no input save Jesus is Lord.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The spirit of God is within us. As Christian we should know this.
  To look outwardly and move forward is to look away from God as he has presented himself to us.
  
  He is right here within ...
  This is not to say that we are allmighty...
  We can look inwardly and serve the self and miss the point as redidly as looking outwardly.
  Listen to the voice within!
  Satan has a thousand or more spirits all claining to be the Holy Spirit!
  
  If it comes in the ear gate it isn't coming from within.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to seem stiff in stance.
  
  Have we forgotten where it was Christ cast the demons from exactly?
  
  Just a hint. They weren't in anyone's ears..
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just singne off in another thread and then saw thid.
  
  If we can't trust what goes into the ear gate, or even the voice we hear from within .... don't leave much to have faith in; don't you think?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just be careful.
  
  That's the short version.. I'm hazing in and out of sleep... lol
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The post is very clear and I'm not sure vector7 why you are having trouble understanding it. If you apply biblical teachings to your own self, your own transformation, your own inner cleansing - you will get it. so much will you get it, you will feel it in the very core of you. But when you continually keep the teachings at a distance, ie just by reading, you miss it. You are missing the entire point of the teachings of Jesus. And this is why I'm saying you are being influenced by Lucifer. It's written all over you but it's like you can't see the wood for the trees. That's how gullible you have become. Simple Luciferic ploy. The influence wins because you can't see it. Slimy devil he is!
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, keep calling him lucifer when he is never called lucifer once in the Bible save when it's attributed to a human king in Isaiah.
  
  He is a called the adversary, namely Satan or the Devil constantly though. You should point out where you got calling him luci boy from anyway, because I know it isn't from the Bible.
  
  "You are missing the entire point of the teachings of Jesus."
  
  John 3:16 is Christ summing up "...the entire point..." of His teachings for you himself.
  
  I need not add a word.
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I never said Jesus was Lucifer. I was talking about the Lucifer principal. When man is lured into believing dogma, not knowing that the dogma goes against the principals of what he originally thought it was. You would do well to understand what a meme is.
  
  See the very fact that your religion is now divisive of all other religions is proof that you have succumbed to the luciferic game. Until you unravel this within yourself you will not get clarity on what it is you are seeking. You only think you are seeking integrity, but your very actions say otherwise.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is amazing though that the concept of introspection seems to automatically create scripture reading. I don't understand why this happens. The very moment of getting close to what Jesus wanted you to do, you do the opposite. Fascinating to watch. Jesus wants you to go inside yourself, you don't, you read and quote scriptures. That is the lure of a luciferic impulse. See?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I never said Jesus was Lucifer."
  
  -Jewels
  
  What? I meant Satan.....
  
  "Yeah, keep calling him lucifer when he is never called lucifer once in the Bible save when it's attributed to a human king in Isaiah."
  
  -vector7
  
  Respectfully, I see no scripture, and all Jewels thoughts and I'm not debating Jewels thoughts.
  
  If you don't get any of your understandings from scripture then me and you have no solid basis to discuss anything anyhow, because we will be debating on why scripture is more important than your thoughts which is my opinion.
  
  Have a good one Jewels.
  
  God bless.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Google the Luciferic Principle - it's a book. Study what it means. See - once again you are looking at Satan as something with arms and legs. Same as you see God as a being with arms and legs. Principles. Also read the book Lucifer and Ahriman. Therein you will find the real meaning of the principles and how it applies to humanity. Understand what a meme is.
  
  See you have to take your head out of the book you are NOT taking personally, and apply the teachings to your own life. Only by doing that can you understand.
  
  If the only 'knowledge' you have is via scriptures, you have limited knowledge. Especially if said knowledge is not being applied to your personal journey. Memorizing scriptures does naught unless you genuinely understand the meaning and how it applies to your life.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewels, I believe you are right in one respect. We all need to get beyond the cross and the suffering. It was all about what happened afterwards, that makes His death necessary. Without a blood sacrifice, there would have been no sacrifice. Only Christ could have done it. But it was all about the fact that He was trying to show us that life is eternal. All of us one day are going to die. Some will have tragic deaths, that they will have to go through! But Christ shows us that we will not feel the sting of death and that life is eternal for everyone. But those who have not given their life to Christ will not be welcome into His Kingdom, and that is why it is so important to know and believe that He has come here to teach and guide us into salvation. The Spirit never dies but will go either to the Lake of fire or Heaven and we have a choice as to which way we want to go. It is plain and simple as that.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Someone taught you wrong Taliwin. You need to get the new NIV BIBLE and have a pastor sit down with you and teach you about Jesus. I wonder how many people on here have the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! or how many have the Fire come down on them! When you see people instantly healed you will believe that Jesus is God in the flesh believe me. My husband saw an eyesocket and eyeball put in a 6 year old girls face at a crusade he was singing at. We know of people who had their insides removed and sat up in the coffins and said they were hungry. God is real, there is no doubt about it.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh, that is so one sided bonitaanna to imply that taiiwin has been 'taught wrong.' Have you ever wondered whether it is YOU that has been taught wrong? I'm am pretty sure taiiwin is onto something, and you are missing the entire teachings if the bible. Go to the original version, not the new one.
  
  We are all the Son of God, we are all an emanation of the source that is the Divine. It's so darn simple. Jesus was like us, a human being who attained enlightenment and found God within himself. You can do that too if you like.
  
  And It's rubbish that you can't be a Christian and not believe Jesus is the one and only son of God. This is how twisted the modern christian teachings are. Totally off the boil.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your hands, my thoughts precisely -save the term 'only'. I believe, and stand corrected from the text but it goes, "Any who hears my voice ... believes ... are in the anointing [Christos] ... welcome the stranger [Spirit]", etc. So anyone would be anyone, not just "Christians".
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very true.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What happens to the unbelievers?........
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I covered atheists somewhere in this long winded topic. No difference Mark. Go for virtue and you'll be ahead of the majority. Matters not what religion, or non-religion you align to.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Along w/ the rest of the religious {sensation or equation}, they die and seize to exist. No "Hell, Fire, Brimstone" awaiting them. They just stop being. Beyond Life is only Life. No Life = Dead, permanently. Pretty simple. Sadly, doctrines from the beliefs and anti-beliefs thoroughly skew this because it sends shivers down the spine. No one wants to believe they will seize to be if they refuse immortality; to realize they have completely missed the boat of living in the first place -and more so have wasted that existence on doctrines and anti-doctrines.
  
  James.
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  taliwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tallwin,
  Very nice to meet you, here on HubPages.
  While I thoroughly respect your beliefs be they of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc, none of this doctrines align with the Truth completely, which essentially makes them inaccurate // inadequate -not wrong or right, just inadequate, if you understand my meaning. Granted, all three of these -and believe it or not most others like Hindi, Buddhism, etc are also apart of them. However, none of them is able by their own words // admission, their own evidence, over x-thousand years, that they are THE Way to immortality. To existing once more as Heaven-Earth entities; the visible reflection of Creator and all of [His] creation. Therefore, be they scientific or sensational in their approach, have failed humanity, have caused his continued depravity and will kill each and everyone who adheres to them // adheres against them, in any shadow, of any degree.
  
  Moshiach [called Messiah, Anointed, Y`shua ben Yosef, son of Zeus // Iesous] explained this to the children of Abram -to both the sons of Jacob and Esau. He explained they all are the sons of Creator -even as he is. A man, flesh and blood, as Adam was, filled with ruach that consumes him into immortality -as their Father is that Immortality.
  A son cannot be divided from his father. Neither can an immortal son be divided from an Immortal Father. Although one is the offspring of the other, the offspring is like his Father in every way. His does this to prove he is an offspring and to reveal his fathers glory and to bring honor to his family. If any man be as his father, everything he does will reveal it. Everything he does not do to reveal his fathers glory dishonors him, his father and his family.
  
  Who then can say only one man is a god? None. Who can say only one man is not a god? None. Who can say they are not of Immortality, of the Ineffable Everything? None. But, they can believe these things and more, because their ego deceives them. What is the ego? Ha-satan, who deceived himself into to Reason, from the beginning and divided Truth born in him and for him --that he is now a slave to his own Reason, to his own thoughts.
  
  You say, "I am ..." this or that. Your mind tells you this. They say, "I am not..." this or that. Their mind tells them this. Neither are wrong or right. Both are inaccurate // inadequate.
  
  What is immortality // salvation // heaven? The manifestation of truth, not reason.
  Who is the messenger or the words of that messenger? It does not matter the messenger --nor the words of the messenger-- unless words are expressed correctly resulting in what they state. Else, they are inadequate --and fuel for the ego to remain afflicted --which can only bring him his own death.
  
  James.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not entirely accurate, the offspring are a combination of genes from both the father and the mother, which is how diversity is demonstrated in evolution. Therefore, the son most certainly has been "divided" from the father, at least, in mortals.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But - there are conditions apparently. The immortal son gets to not be immortal if he doesn't believe. Ya gotta believe or else.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So because there is a combination of genes translates to mean a son is genetically different // divided from its father? Wouldn't it only reinforce the existence of the fatherly attributes? Even in the female, the fatherly attributes exist. The balance of the genetics determines the gender, not the genetics itself...
  
  James.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only some of them. Remember that the fathers genes are also made up of a combination of his parents genes as well, with the attributes of his father and mother. Hence, the father is passing on attributes of himself, his father, his mother and his wife to the son.
  
  Would that conclusion not show a father is "divided" from his son, because the son not only has his attributes, but those of others as well. Using your logic, we could then say the son is not divided by his great-great-grandfathers-uncles-first wife.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think I can see where Jim Bob is going with this one.
  
  The Mother is also the daughter, so therefore the son is 100% indivisible. And it is impossible to be divided from.
  
  Unless he chooses not to believe.
  
  In which case...........
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  taliwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, James was actually responding to you, and he did actually say he respected your beliefs before beginning his response. I would suspect James is waiting for a response in kind, to his words.
  
  All you're doing is telling him to convert to Islam in order to be happy.
  
  Have your motives thus been revealed?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. And do not think I am going to receive a response in kind. Sadly, I just wasted an entire few paragraphs for a typical "read a book" response. .
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In Youtube we trust. Allah Akbar Amen.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gotcha. Believe Wot James Sed or Die!
  
  And you really don't understand why this causes conflicts?
  
  Really?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What I said causes conflict? Ha! In whom? Yourself perhaps?
  Afterlife, Evolution, aliens, gods, science//sensation, anti-gods, deadly asteroids cause conflict, Marcus, not immortality or death. If fact, both immortality and death have nothing to do with the aforementioned.
  
  Dispute my claim, then, if you disagree.
  How does no afterlife // death // end of ones human existence versus immortality cause conflict.
  Explain yourself, man, or kindly move on.
  
  James.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? "do what I say or die" and "believe as I tell you or die"?
  
  "Believe as I tell you to get immortality."
  
  And - you know what I don't know.
  
  Say some more ancient Jewish words to convince me you know better than I do. I know that rocks your boat.
  
  2,000 years of this causing conflicts.
  
  How silly that there are conditions attached.
  
  And you know what I don't know.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can't answer? Must ask more questions and smiley's? Wow, I am disappointed in you, Marcus. Such a protestant you have proven to be. You are still roaring, with nothing but piss and wind, as usual I see. Pity. One day we might actually have conversation without the anti-protestant reformation on your fingertips (or is that BBQ sauce) LAWL. So, any time you are ready, be a good school boy and actually answer a question v asking more nonsensical questions.
  
  EDIT: what do you offer as alternative? I have said: dead is dead or immortal {alive, living} is immortal. If you have no alternative, you have no argument. If you claim only death, then we are in agreement still because as stated there is either dead or alive.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I answered. You claiming superior knowledge based on nothing is what causes the conflicts.
  
  Threatening me with death if I don't believe what you say and eternal life if I do believe as you say is the root cause of this conflict.
  
  Odd you don't get that because that is what you berate the Xtians with all the time.
  
  Go on - you know you like to say some ancient Jewish words to demonstrate your superior knowledge.
  
  Rauch!
  
  Come on - prove it instead of doing as all religionists do. Spout nonsense and demand respect.
  
  Conditions make your claims a nonsense.
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Window Painposted 12 years ago
felix asked...
"Do you know where you're going after death?"

Window Pain replies...
Wherever it is, I hope to God there are no religious nuts there.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Define religion with a dictionary for yourself and you'll answer your own inquiry.. lol
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Where God is, there are no religious nuts!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have to save this one to My Pictures. It will be used often!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  that's how it will be during the rapture Jewel, it's what is going to happen.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Except for the "religious whackos" part. There will plenty of religion!
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  Emily Sparksposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow......Cagsil, that picture doesn't represent what will really be taking place after the rapture. You will not rejoice but weep when you see the Bible prove itself true. It will not be a time of happiness but of realization of what you ignorantly rejected all these years--salvation through Jesus Christ alone. When I saw that picture, my heart was filled with pity for all those who reject Christ! I wish you would give up whatever it is holding you back from trusting in Christ!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's meant to be funny. And if you don't see it as funny, then you have no sense of humor.
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  Emily Sparksposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have a sense of humor, and enjoy a good joke, but something as serious as this isn't something to laugh at. Not everything is a joke.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes this is funny. It's you who's perception is skewed. You believe in life after death. I don't, therefore I find it funny and not serious. Get over it.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing is, if there really is a rapture it won't by a long shot mean the end of religion. Christianity will be hugely diminished until Jesus comes back, but the end times will have one huge, world-wide religious cult of followers of the AntiChrist (although they won't think of him that way.)
  
  It's in the book!
  
  And if there is no rapture, you're stuck with us forever!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The picture is for laughter. Do you not have a sense of humor?
  
  Using the book to validate itself. Ridiculous.
  Untrue. I will die sooner or later. So I won't be.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's what you think!
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
One last question before I fall down.

If I believe in the voice that I hear, why don't you.

If you believe the voice you hear why don't I ?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus Christ Himself studied the scriptures constantly. Why would we be so special as to not need to heed scripture if that is exactly what Christ had to do in order to save us?
  
  Shouldn't we be studying scripture if the Messiah, the King of kings, studied the scriptures?
  
  The "voice" is from meditating on scripture and it comes from the the mind's eye. It's the understanding that "pops" into your mind when you are considering things you read, not an actual "voice." [at least I sincerely hope you don't have little audible voices talking to you like your poker buddies.]
  
  If you hear a literal voice and it isn't telling you things that prove that said voice is from God, you'd better reconsider following any advice from whatever it is you are hearing.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is the irony. You don't actually know Jesus' interpretation of the text and Christianity doesn't have that interpretation. It has other people's interpretation of what Jesus said.
  
  Good luck in finding the truth you claim to seek.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Vector KGV of the Bible in Isaiah 12:14 and Isaiah 14:12-14, uses the name Lucifer, while newer version use the name ''Day star''
  
  We know who he is, and a true christian will never be confuse with the antecedents of Lucifer.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God bless you Felix.
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Modern day Christians are not confused by lucifer because they have no awareness of the subtle agenda portrayed by it. This lack of awareness will be your downfall whereby you will definitely need the blessings of God.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What does that mean? What subtle agenda?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you hear the voice that I hear?
  
  Do I hear the voice that you hear?
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know ! They might be?
  
  A better question might be ; are they saying the same things
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, that is a far better question!
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Window Painposted 12 years ago
Jerami,
Are you suggesting we listen to every voice in every person's head?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's RICH..
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Be aware bible reading is not spirituality. It's reading.
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  Sachin Bhuriyaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great Tips
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only meditation the kind you know is right?
  By the way, how about that?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, well it's your word against Jesus Christ's recorded Word.
  
  I'll go with Jesus Christ's.
  
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  that's good vector - at least make sure you understand what that is first. Words are just words, it's what is behind them that counts. It's what you do with them. Taking words as gospel without embodying their meaning is a useless endeavor. But it's what you are doing and and who you become as a human that counts. You can transcribe lectures until you are blue in the face, but unless you do something other than regurgitate them, you will fall.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wanna enlighten me on John 3:16 oh dictator of my IQ and literary comprehension capabilities?
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So much for being polite huh?
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This? :
  
  "You can transcribe lectures until you are blue in the face, but unless you do something other than regurgitate them, you will fall."
  
  Agreed.
  
  Wanna answer the question in her stead, or roll those gorgeous eyes of yours some more?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you now claiming that her post was an insult? or impolite?
  
  Or are you agreeing with her statement? With you it's hard to tell. You don't break down posts, so what you're referring to cannot be understood.
  Yes, I have been told I have pretty eyes and rolling them at you is nothing new. I know where Jewels is coming from because her and I have had extensive conversations in the past. And, sorry to say, other than her "God" ideology, she speaks to Jesus' teachings of Consciousness.
  
  Now, if you had half of the knowledge Jewels possesses with regards to religion and history, you would be humble enough to listen to what she has to say. If you choose not, then it will only prove you're "closed-minded" or "narrow-minded", which I would have to attribute to your own ego, which isn't derived from any rational depiction of Jesus' teachings.
  
  Jewels is quite informed on Consciousness, even if I don't agree with her final introspection.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll take that as a "no."
  
  Peace.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What else is new. You only proved me right.
  
  As for explaining what Jewels is referring to? I could explain it and probably get a pat on the back from her in doing so. However, it is best she answer you and not me.
  
  I figured you were rude with the pathetic "dictator" statement, which is why I said what I said. I don't expect you to believe me and considering Jewels in Australia, I'm sure she will gladly fill you in when she gets a chance.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Cags, I appreciate what you have just said.
  
  Vector - the passage refers to your inner self. Belief in your inner self. Reaching the core of who you really are is at the very core of uncovering your spirit. This knowledge is widespread in ALL religions.
  
  I've repeated myself often and yet Vector you still don't understand. This is why I say - keep reading and not doing and you will miss the entire teachings you were meant to understand. The essence of what is called God is inside everyone, absolutely everyone. He who believes what is in the very depths of themselves, void of ALL external distractions, will reach their Kingdom of Heaven. Again it is within. God is a principal, it has naught to do with an external deity. The bible is a story, a myth. You are to pick up this book and apply the doctrines to your own life solely. In so doing you become as Jesus wanted - he was one of several masters who achieved great levels of consciousness and he asked you to follow him - to do it also. (Make sure you get an original version though).
  
  It is gravely unfortunate that the term God has been so bastardized that to many it is like spitting bitter herbs from the mouth. Unfortunately I was brought up a Catholic, and like many using the term became distasteful because it was loaded with a false doctrine - that being the one you are following. You look externally for something that is within. That is itself Luciferic.
  
  Until I came to see for myself and experience those deep levels of Love, was I able to really understand what the intention of that book was. It matters not what it is called. The essence of yourself, when experienced is mammoth, beyond words, beyond scriptures, beyond logic. It is the most exquisite of experiences. These cannot be explained, they must be experienced. Peace of mind is extraordinary, the heat of nectar is beyond a mother's love.
  
  And it has naught to do with IQ. Intelligence is necessary to bring a form of rationality to these non-rational experiences. It is very difficult to do. Yet I can say without doubt that reading does not get you there. Belief in the essence that is within you, first you have to find it.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  sorry; .. i missed this earlier
  
  No I wasn't saying that. more like , Why should I think that the still quiet voice which I would call the holy spirit is the real one and everyone elses are the false ones?
  It could be the other way around and I wouldn't know it!
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, you are being very honest here. The mind is a minefield and not everything we hear is of integrity. Discernment is an art. It's very apparent that those saying they are hearing the word of God - definitely do not. An example of this is Felix's latest hub. Very disappointing. I wouldn't read it, I only saw the title - which was something like Christianity is the only real religion, everything else is false. Something like that. Disgraceful words coming from someone who says they are Christian. Absolutely disgraceful. This is a classic example of someone not actually hearing God but a false God. What he is put in headlines is definitely not a principle of Love which is what 'God' is. You cannot, by the way, experience Christ Consciousness without being in a state of Love.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  At this moment I really don't know what to say. I'll start with .... HI Jewels.
  I'm pretty sure that I've heard several kinds of spirits.
  And they all had their rewards to give.
  
  "I'm oversimplifying here!"
  
  I do think that we have to become one with ourselves (emotion/intellect) (conscious subconscious) or however else we want to describe it before we can claim to have BEGUN to become Christ minded!
  My brain isn't working to its full potential right now so I'll just stop with this. Gotta go take care of something pressing.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting.
  
  Did Jesus say He was the only way to the Father, or didn't He? Religion is not the issue, you seem to be arguing for a kind of synchretism, and what Jesus actually said denies it. Which am I to believe?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know whether you are hearing from and listening to God by testing the spirit, checking it against His word.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, it's only "faith". Testing the "spirit" against the "word" is sad considering you've no clue if the translations are accurate or if the wording used hasn't been manipulated by those who did the translation.
  
  The Priest I asked when I was younger didn't have an answer except to tell me to go back to the bible. The bible cannot validate itself. It's stupid and completely ignorant to think it could.
  
  It was written by man, translated by man. Therefore, mistakes are to have likely happened.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you were stuck with that particular priest. Many unbelievers have similar stories, about talking to priests and pastors who and youth leaders who didn't know what the Bible says, then going to someone who didn't believe and seemed to have it together.
  
  On the contrary, the Bible can validate itself. It just requires the patience and the willingness to actually read it. The majority of people who claim it's garbage have not actually read it, often not at all but just as often only bits and pieces.
  
  It's entirely possible to know how accurate the translations are. The fact is that the Bible has more scrolls and scraps and entire books than any other ancient document. The sheer number of them, spread over time and space, makes it possible to compare, contrast, study and think about and the sheer number of human beings who have been involved in it over the centuries means that we can have the best translation.
  
  It's not all faith. Faith certainly has a lot to do with it, but not on most of the points you brought up this time.
  
  You make statements about what Christianity is and isn't, and what Jesus did and didn't mean, but they tend to be vague (that I've read, I'll admit that I don't have the opportunity to read most of your postings.) Where do you get this from? Why should I buy into your vision/philosophy/belief/ethic/whatever? What makes what you have better than what I have? Accusation is easy, any idiot can do it. Education is hard, and most people don't want to do it.
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Felixedet2000posted 12 years ago
Jewel, at times you agree with people that are atheist in this forum, and by that i mean people who do not believe that Lucifer even exist, one says he's a myth. Aren't you contradicting yourself in a way?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, no contradiction. I am who I am. I am neither atheist nor Christian, nor Buddhist, nor Hindu nor am I Muslim. I am not a luciferian nor a spiritualist. I am who I am. I am loved by many, I am loved by God. Jesus thinks I'm cool. I am loved by atheists, I am loved by Hindu's, I am loved by Buddhists. I am loved by artists, writers and politicians. I am loved by silly people and serious people, and gay people. I'm loved by politicians and lawyers, loved by doctors and sportspeople. Loved by the French and also Americans, most of them anyway!
  
  When a person knows themselves (the kingdom of heaven is within), they do not need to separate their ideologies. They don't need to shout from the rooftops that their religion is the only way to God - as your latest hub is trying to do. Jesus is not happy about that Mr Felix, but understands your dilemma.
  
  Meditation has always been shown as the way to go within oneself. The real practicing Christians actually do this. The Cathars did this, the Essenes did this. They knew Christ Consciousness as their practices led to it. Jesus meditated also.
  
  But you don't have to meditate if you don't want to. Lead a virtuous life and you should do ok. But lay off other people's religions. Jesus frowns upon it. God will let you do as you please as you have free will. You will have atonement once you understand truth and integrity. The atonement will come from your own mind eventually (crown of thorns symbolizes the mind's confusion and torment).
  
  No contradictions.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewel aren't you sitting on the fence while the world is on fire?
  Nature itself abhors vacuum.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  From control to chaos, from chaos to structure, control and back to chaos. I've never been a fence sitter and there is no grass growing under my feet. One of the reasons the world is going to burn to a crisp is religions that create division. Not like cosmic fire that only burns when you are aligned to it. Modern day Christians are fence sitters as they are waiting for something external to save them, instead of doing it themselves as Jesus wanted. I guess you'll figure that out eventually.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't count on it.
  
  What's the old adage- "who is worse, the fool or the fool following the fool"?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's interesting you making that statement Cags. That's the real meaning of the "sins of the father." Repeating what you have been taught without questioning the teaching, or knowing how to question.
  
  I sometimes wonder if Edward Bernays got his ideas from looking at religious brainwashing? Now there is one sorry ass man - huge karmic debt there!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewels, that is the first time I have even heard of all those religions, how on earth to keep them all straight in your mind as to which one you would even believe in. Thank God, that my mind is not so clutter with all of those, it would be hard to have any belief at all!!!! It is like having 15 lollipops to choose from, after you have tasted all of them, you can get pretty confused as to which one is to your liking, much less which one is right for you!
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't have beliefs, have experiences. The world and the people in it are diverse and this is never going to change. Why not like them all? We are afterall one bit melting pot - so the song goes. I'm surprised Bonitaanna that this is the first time you have heard of those spiritual teachings. There are many many more but these are the most common. If you only ever feed from one trough you will always have a palette that is tunnelled by the same flavor.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mind this tunnel vision. I am sure that choosing Jesus as my Lord and Saviour is all I need to know and loving God as my Lord and the Great I AM, is all that is necessary to be a child of the Light. I really have no interest in knowing other religions, what would ever compare to my precious Saviour and the Father in Heaven?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes ignorance is not bliss and once you realize that other religions are doing the same thing, your tolerance may expand. Saying Christianity is the only way is an insult to other people's paths. Not that you have personally said this but it has been said many times in the forums. And that goes against the teachings of Christianity.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Believe you me, from what I have seen and heard about other religions I am sure I want no part of them. Thats like saying, okay don't marry the first man you have relations with, why don't you go try out a couple hundred, just so you find the right one for you! A Christian does not believe like that. Tunnel vision is fine with me as long as I keep my eyes on God that is all that counts. After all the road is narrow, not wide, and that means very few are traveling it, the ones on the wide road are making their own rules. The ones on the narrow road are faithfull to God and no other Gods will take His place. The things of the world are not as important as how we love each other and help one another to come to Christ. That is the agape love. You can keep debating about God, but what is truth will always be truth no matter what you say about Him. I feel that many religions have and believe some of the ways in which God wants us to believe. But there is only one truth! I go to many different churches, we do not just believe in going to the same church. We sing to all the people and if our songs touch the hearts of someone in the audience to come forward and give their life to Jesus, then we are happy that it was through our song that they did it. I would not call that tunnel vision. We are doing God's work that way. I don't feel that we have hidden ourself away from society. If anything we have done more than most people.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's sad that you seem to have been told negative stories about other religions. There is so much to learn about other faiths, many of which have wonderful attributes. But you will not know this for yourself unless you yourself understand other traditions. You have found what works for you, just as many other people have found what they were looking for through another line. But that doesn't mean your religion is any better than another. The advantage of knowing different ways of faith toward the same source, is that you get a better understanding of the human condition. We are a diverse race of people. Knowing other religions without judgment is an attribute that does not need to create confusion. You don't have to practice them, just understand them. And again, it's not about beliefs, it's about walking in the shoes of those who have gone before us,having the experiences of a virtuous life with integrity.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you are all things to all people?
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kdillonposted 12 years ago
I feel all of this "God" nonsense isn't needed, everyone is going to identify to the "Godhood" in a uniquly personal and different way. Trying to clump all of these seperate and unique beliefs under an umbrella of "Religion" is absurd.

Also, do you even realize how many "Suns of God/Sons of God", there have been throughout the centuries. Christianity is not what it was intended to be due to purely POLITICAL reasons. Constantine, during the Nicene Council, set down an ultimatum to the Bishops, build a creed, set down a rule that everyone, no matter what the specific denomination might be, can agree and adhere to, and this is how you get the Church of the West and the Church of the East.

During this great council, they were also given the task of creating the New Testament, it was not "God" given as it is today. No, they took all of the books, writings, musing, and what not that they could find that even had a glimmer of Christ in them. The books they found to be "incorrect" were only incorrect in the fact that they did not agree nor support the Creed, and therefore could not be allowed to be in the New Testament.

With this being said, with the thought of there already being many "Sons of God" before Jesus, I would take anything you read that is made by the hands of man , no matter how "inspired" they might have been or will be, with a grain of salt and learn to read between the lines, there you might find a grain of truth.
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was as much God as you or I. No more, no less. I offer this to demonstrate. Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. To whom was he praying. There is a separation between God and Jesus, otherwise, he was praying to himself. This very suggestion, to my understanding, is unacceptable. Peter said that 'Jesus was a man, approved of God.' On this point I tend to be on Pete's side. (I'm usually not.)
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You accept that He prayed and that the text is true in that regard, and that Him praying makes Him the same.
  
  I count Him raising people without life in their bodies to walk and talk and live a sign He is "God."
  
  Who gives life? God
  
  And in those same texts you refer to, He speaks to the elements of existence that submit to His authority diverting the storm.
  
  Who created the elements of existence? God
  
  And Hebrews 1:8 is the flat out plain --> the "Son" is "God" - unless you deny that part of the Bible, I don't know.
  
  And that's just a few biggies.
  
  Just sayin'.
  
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  kdillonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus story totally mirrors the story of Mithra's, as Sun of God, who raised the dead, was killed for everyone's salvation, was dead for 3 days and was then resurrected, same story diff name
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, yeah, yeah... No kidn. Here comes the calvary.. lol
  
  Well, there's documentation for Christ, and all that Christ did in His time was pre-determined to come about and be fulfilled.
  
  When was your "mirrored" story anyway? You haven't slapped but a solitary run on sentence into view friend. Kindly.
  
  I have thousands of years of texts, personal experiences, secular validation, and an incredible following by individuals thereafter employed by cowards transformed into fearless unto death.
  
  Not to mention, if you honestly calculate all the odds and look at the number of current events unfolding rapidly, "just.. so.. happens.." some say, [why I'm not surprised?] that it all matches exactly without a hiccup.
  
  But hey, you shed your doubt all you like. Plus I mentioned those "biggies" under the precedent of the Biblical texts being accepted as accurate and true by the reader.....
  
  Which by the way, you don't seem to meet that precedent.
  
  Opinions right?
  
  Cheers.
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, no kidding.
  Use any source other than any religious book to show. Otherwise, you're only blowing smoke.
  Try before Jesus ever born as a human. Or will claim it was him also, but deceivingly using a different name?
  You're too funny.
  Yeah, it usually happens with self-fulfilling "imagined" thoughts.
  And this statement was meant for what exactly?
  That's part and parcel the problem. It's believed accurate, which is something other than "actually" accurate.
  That's okay, you use the bible to vouch for itself. How honest is that? In actuality, it's foolish.
  Probably no different than you faith.
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  kdillonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not going to argue with you, that is not my way, and as you must feel so ardently about your religion, I shall only give you this as an opportunity to open your eyes.
  
  I also advise before one attempts to correct another's grammar, they themselves should take a look at their own.
  
  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't intend to mean that run on sentences aren't of common use [this is a forum] or that it meant anything about you. It IS a run on sentence isn't it? I was referring to the length of it for accuracy.
  
  Don't get so hostile buddy. I'm not here to shoot bullets. Just to take things easy and pile the sarcasm on thick. Most don't like it, but that's my rainbow. [no pot o' gold]
  
  I'm not arguing either. [technically speaking, you got me] Conversating
  
  "Plus I mentioned those "biggies" under the precedent of the Biblical texts being accepted as accurate and true by the reader.....
  
  Which by the way, you don't seem to meet that precedent."
  
  You did reply to me right? I'm not here to push the "Bible" on you kdillon.
  
  You can post, or not. Your choice. But I "aint" [grammar yes? lol] rollin' over for ya.
  
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "The small Mithraic congregations were like masonic lodges for a few and for men only and even those mostly of one class, the military; a religion that excludes the half of the human race bears no comparison to the religion of Christ. Mithraism was all comprehensive and tolerant of every other cult, the Pater Patrum himself was an adept in a number of other religions; Christianity was essential exclusive, condemning every other religion in the world, alone and unique in its majesty."
  
  -CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Relation to Christianity
  
  Thanks for the link. Cool stuff.
  
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Almost forgot. On a serious note.
  
  "Jesus story totally mirrors the story of Mithra's, as Sun of God, who raised the dead, was killed for everyone's salvation, was dead for 3 days and was then resurrected, same story diff name"
  
  -kdillon
  
  "Mithra saved the world by sacrificing a bull; Christ by sacrificing Himself"
  
  -CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Relation to Christianity
  
  Your link....
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Vector. The miracles were all God working through Jesus, just as he could choose to do the same through you.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Well, I've met none or read of no other with such upholding of truth as far as my inquires have bought about for me.
  
  I do know the apostles performed miracles, but through who's name were they performed?
  
  Jesus Christ's
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you guys are saying the same thing (or seem to be) that the power came from God and that same power( that Jesus used) He can use through whomever He chooses too ..In another words Jesus did not use His own power ,even though I am sure He could have.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I kinda agree. But I count Jesus as God, whereas I count no other human to be God.
  
  That's the only difference I see. I believe God can use anyone, but when I read John 3:16 it says "...only begotten son..." so I may be a son of God, but it's through the grace of God by the only begotten Son of God.
  
  And I may be able to be used by God to show His power. But it also is by the grace of God through the Son of God, as without Christ none of us would be able to even speak to God.
  
  Even those in the Old Testament were allowed to speak to God because of Christ's works for us, and the through their obedience in the sacrifices.
  
  So my only point is that Jesus Christ is God and that the miracles would not even be possible through another human without the reconciliation that Jesus died and resurrected to provide for us.
  
  I'm not sure Druid will agree with this.
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok I see ,and yea I agree.
  
  God came down in human form as Jesus.
  
  You explained it so much better lol
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And Jesus said "You are all gods"
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If I recall correctly, as I haven't looked, isn't that when he quoted the Old Testament when the Jews were attempting to stone Him for claiming He was God, as in "...before Abraham was I am..." ?
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Dubuquedogtrainerposted 12 years ago
Yes.
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Bonitaannaposted 12 years ago
There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. They are three and yet, they are all two each! How that can be is a mystery that only God knows. He does not tell us everything, because many cannot accept the truth. Many are not given the eye that is open to the truth so it remains a mystery to those who have not been given it by God. You see, "The God of our fathers "has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. Acts 22: 13,14.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And all God's Children said:
  
  Amen.
  
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This sounds, fantastically, like hypnotic regurgitation...devoid of any rational meaning. How can some people allow themselves to become this blindly brainwashed?
  
  A mind is a terrible thing...
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How true is that getirite. The mind is a cesspool. If only heads could be taken off and put through the wash. All that hot air washed down the drain could solve global warming.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The psychotic delusion in society, as a whole, is FRIGHTENING!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ..How would your society look without God?
  
  What is a life without discipline. Its true we do not like to do what other people tell us to do,another rules have laws and rules.
  
  Yet we all know the conquences of mans law.
  
  Gods law has never changed ( unlike mankinds) and neither do the conquences.
  
  But wait...Society already have exactly what they fight to have ,freedom without discipline ....doesnt look very pretty ,in fact theres a lot of garbage caused by activites that know no boundaries-of course freedom is a great thing ,but not all things are good for us..
  
  Unwanted pregnancies
  Sexual diseases
  Crime-Prisons full to over flowing
  Crime-On increase,including against women and children.
  Corruption and lies from people we used to trust in positions of power.
  Racism-
  War
  
  So if you still say all of these things are caused and were done by God ie then logically a society without God would not be decaying...
  
  But it is....truly FRIGHTENING.
  
  Reality bites.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose you are primarily speaking of America. Over 70% lay claim to Christianity. Sometimes I think if Christians would accept the fact that it is a mirror they look into when they view the problems of the world, we might actually start talking about workable solutions. Not just wallowing in the attempted transfer of blame.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I totally agree with you.
  
  Doesnt ever matter, at least not in an realistic way what people claim.
  
  Action, and outcome is or should be a best lesson.
  
  And no, I wasn't seeing it as an American perspective, I was viewing it as a 'human problem'
  
  No discipline is evident in so many societies (IMO)
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, but it's parenting which is the cause of lack of discipline.
  
  Sorry, No G/god required.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd have to agree with you on that.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mans theories on discipline change( as history and Governments often dictate)
  
  It even changes from family to family ,individual to individual.
  
  Man avoids breaking the law for fear of punishment and its consequences etc.
  
  Gods discipline never has changed,and the consequences while logical to mankind's mind ,Gods discipline comes with sound teaching for a changed life ,a life that has peace and not fear.
  Understanding and love and not oppression with conditions defendant on race,finances, circumstances.
  
  Gods discipline is the same whether you are rich,poor ,pink or purple, for every man,woman or child in whatever corner of the world they live in.
  
  I like that, it offers stability, security, coupled with justice and mercy.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I expected this, but when you look at the things going on in the world and then you take a look at those who hold the beliefs as you do, which makes up 2.1 billion people on this planet, it's hard to not pay attention to those who are parents(and religious) and the job in which they have done raising their children.
  
  So please, save the rhetoric with regards to "Man's" theory of discipline.
  
  There are more religious people in this world than not. Goes to show which ones are really screwing up the world.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you disappointed me. As does any mans solution to societies problems.
  
  Of course they don't have a solution, the best they can offer is a 'band aid' or a new policy..( build a new prison)..lower the age of consent, raise the age , this n that ...playing with peoples lives.
  
  Where are your solutions by the way ? since you seem to be offended my observations of what works..NOT interested in your psychology mumbo jumbo.
  
  ( Thats just another self help industry, thats over paid ) ...set up to aid drug companies.
  
  Religion does screw up the world
  
  Which is why Jesus came to save it.
  
  It is the people ,such as yourself who dont know the difference who confuse and offer empty solutions.
  
  Like Emile said 'Look in the mirror'...I do, then seek to change for the better
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The problem I have here is that you start out complaining about the world, then when cagsil mentions parenting as contributing to the problems of the world, you start talking about 'god's discipline' vs 'man's discipline'. I don't see God policing the area, so the problems of the world are ours to work out. I think, maybe, if Christians explained a little of ' man's discipline' in the process of raising their kids you wouldn't have so much to complain about. The kids would grow up understanding cause and effect a little better.
  
  I could be wrong, but it would be a start.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No I did not start out complaining about the world, and good parenting is and has always been a 'good start' but if we are committed to a good start ,then isnt a good finish just as important.
  
  Which reminds me ,why did you earlier think I was focused on America when I mentioned the evidences of our rundown societies?
  
  I was sharing my views on a bigger vision I guess and noticing how discipline or lack of contributes to many breakdowns in idividuals, families and of course our communities.
  
  If God is not the solution , who ,what is Emile?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I assumed you were American and speaking about this country. My bad.
  
  I don't have a problem with faith, but faith has failed us, in some ways. And I don't think that means God does not exist. That's a different argument.
  
  You ask me what I see as the problem. Most of the world believes in God. They say they love him. But they don't give a hoot about their neighbor. We are ego driven, selfish and callous to the needs of others. That, to me, is the problem. From top to bottom; governments, religion and individuals. And we have not only raised a generation that has every intention of following in our footsteps, but we have exported the insanity outside of the west.
  
  Every problem you outlined in your first post will continue to get worse until we all learn to put the needs of others above our wants.
  
  And to those, like me, who would claim they try to do that....we need to try harder.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Problem with your answer Cags is you have assumed that EVERYONE who claims to follow Gods law- all know it and therefore follow it.
  
  Its a bit like saying ALL JUDGES and LAWYERS know the law ,therefore will act this way.
  
  They dont, that is why I learned through Gods word ( doesnt matter if you learned this another way) that ACTIONS speak louder than words.
  
  That is where I come from in my posts re cause and effect.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well said Kiwi!
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Reading comprehension problem?
  And usual, you stretch what people say to appear that they said something which wasn't said. Jesus must be proud of you. I never said "ALL", so get your facts straight.
  Yes, actions do, and presently you're are showing a really ugly side of you.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Comprehension problems,well funny you should say that,because you percieve something I said ,that is not in fact there.
  
  "Its a bit like saying" does NOT mean I think you said that?
  
  Hope you at least comprehend that fact.
  
  As for the rest ,this isnt a college and you are marking papers for goodness sake.
  
  And try to keep personal insults out of your rebuttals, or I will simply ignore your post.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  1 Corinthians 1:23
  
  23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
  
  1 Corinthians 2:14
  
  14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Posting silly scriptures, from a silly ancient book, written by unknown ignorant men is meaningless.
  
  These verses are another attempt at convincing free thinkers that abject foolishness should be accepted in lieu of critical thinking.
  
  Just remember one thing my friend. Your bible is GARBAGE, so keep it out of debates with people who don't share your psychosis. Anything else just makes YOU look foolish.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  Shouldn't you go take a chill pill or something? Your anger is evident and inappropriately directed. Whatever your problem is, you shouldn't try to take it out on someone else. I haven't seen anyone around here be nasty to you like that.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh the voice of reason!
  
  I suppose that telling me that my intellect and critical thinking are inferior to primitive illogical nonsense is not offensive at all...now is it. Your beliefs are the problem, not me.
  
  I think my direction is spot on.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He loves me.
  
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Just remember one thing my friend. Your bible is GARBAGE, so keep it out of debates with people who don't share your psychosis."
  
  -getitrite
  
  ----------------------------------------------------
  
  All Forums »
  Religion and Philosophy »
  Christianity, the Bible and Jesus
  
  Christian Mysticism
  
  ----------------------------------------------------
  
  Just in case you got lost.
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dishonesty, pure and simple. Mysticism + Bible= Dishonest people.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You mean you accidentally clicked the wrong link too?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nice. You show even more of your dishonesty with every post. Jesus must be really proud of you too.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So the Bible should not be quoted under the forum heading including the Bible?
  
  And please quit calling me dishonest without explaining where I was dishonest. If you have no example of when, that is called slander just in case you weren't aware.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that you have to use it as a speaking reference when your own actions don't follow, only proves this category is accurate for the bible. You're more than welcome to post scripture all you want.
  
  The one thing you cannot escape is the "bible" + "mysticism" = dishonest people. No more explanation required.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lololol
  
  Enjoy that chip on ya shoulder buddy....
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No chip. It's just your imagination as per usual.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well since you have nothing else to prove the veracity of your imaginary God, you have to pretend that you can use the writings of a silly book based upon magic to prove the veracity. Your position is a very sad one, but if you must pretend, do carry on.
  
  Jesus loves you.
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  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Jesus loves you."
  
  Yep. He does!
  
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Jesus does love him. And you too.
  
  Your default position that the Bible needs to be excluded on the grounds that you think it's "garbage" is circular reasoning.
  
  The Bible is garbage.
  Anyone who quotes the Bible is spouting nonsense.
  Therefore the Bible should be excluded.
  
  Why is it useless? Because you don't agree with it? Because "intelligent" people don't agree with it? Because "realistic" people don't agree with it?
  
  Do you have an answer that isn't simply repeating what has been said here?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do. You are to have a personal relationship with him, then do so. Leave other people out of it. That's the problem with people, many of them Christians and the alike, they just don't know their place. Why not? Because they are taught to not know through the teachings displaying in whatever religious book they read.
  
  I've read the bible several times in my life and even researched world religions, and I must say that there are truly too many people claiming to be Christian than there are those who are actual Christians.
  
  My research concluded that the bible is nothing more than a history and mythology book. Is there something to learn from it? Sure. What not to do? How not to act? When to act? Why to act? and Where to act? It answers all of them.
  
  It's just a shame, those who claim to read it, just don't get it.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I'm finally at least starting to really understand where you're coming from.
  
  Obviously, my take is different than yours but my experience is also different than yours. I would never have been that interested in any religion if not for the experience I had.
  
  What do you think of C.S. Lewis' contention that Jesus did not intend to leave us the option of merely thinking He was a "great moral teacher?"
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus wasn't a teacher of morals. Jesus was a teaching of consciousness and conscience.
  
  Conscience = Honesty = Love- Thus you become happy with yourself and you find the ability to love others and have compassion.
  
  He was a teacher of consciousness- being consciously active in your own life, meaning you pay close attention to the actions in which you take, so you can lessen the amount of damage or magnify the amount of positive done. All actions have a consequence(you or someone else is going be harmed) and a reaction. You could be harmed by the reaction, as a consequence.
  
  The people Jesus taught were illiterate and/or poor. The conditions people were forced to live in would make our present day third world nations look good.
  
  I find no reason for Jesus' teachings to be in religion, except to fool a majority of those who require themselves to be controlled.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting. Thank you.
  
  I'll have to think on that for a bit.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No it's not! It simply predicted that people like you would call it that!
  
  Amazing when prediction comes so true, eh what?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, when all else fails, just make ridiculously silly, irrelevant comments. This just proves that you have failed in your attempt at bribing freethinkers with your brand of childish psychosis. Now you have to behave in such an evasive manner as to attract attention away from your abject failure.
  
  More dishonesty! God and Jesus must be proud.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  1 Corinthians 1:23
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By posting a reference to an absurd bible verse, you make yourself look like a person of little understanding. Just how is that a rational response to my statement?
  
  Your God is not so SMART that he confounds the wise. NO! Your God is completely FOOLISH, PERIOD! It is only through willful ignorance that you can believe such TRASH.
  
  So the REAL answer is: Believers are psychotic. God doesn't confound anybody with his wisdom. It seems that if he were wise, he wouldn't need to confound anyone. Your position is absurd...and shows why people like you get taken by this fraud.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I kind of figured that would be your response. Did it occur to you that from my point of view, you might have just made my point for me?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  From a completely psychotic point of view, yes, anything can be PROOF of anything! Psychosis trumps REALITY. However, realistically, you just look ridiculously delusional...and egregiously unlearned...
  
  ...And completely dishonest!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you! I have been facing a rather grim time of things with my wife's illness, and your over-the-top response gave me the laugh I needed!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll predict right now that you will say no, call me a name and liken the Bible to garbage.
  
  Was I right?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he will always love us and my prayer is for everyone in this forum who has not given their life to
  Christ to do so without any hesitation.
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Bonitaannaposted 12 years ago
There are three who bear witness in Heaven, the Father, the word,, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. I John 5:7 And there are three that bear witness on earth, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. I John 5:8.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bonitaanna, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is a mystery to non-christian. The Spirit, water and blood is yet another earthly phenomenon that most people don't understand too.
  
  Jesus is God in Heaven and on Earth.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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MahdiNaqviposted 12 years ago
not agreed!!
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't have to agree with what she said MahdiNaqvi, she is stating what she knows and she's very certain of that same assertion.
  
  i totally agree with her.
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
'These are not my teachings, but the teachings of him who sent me.'
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spread it on
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spread this on also. The Greek word Christos, 'anointed' (by God) is the translation of the Hebrew, Messiah, 'anointed'.
  
  In esoteric Christianity, Jesus and Christ are considered two distinct beings.
  
  -Christ, or Christ consciousness, an emanation of the Solar Logos.
  -Jesus, a human being, a master who incarnated the presence of Christ from age 30 to age 33. It was a state he attained.
  
  I suppose however, that esoteric Christianity is different to Fundamentalist Christianity?
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewel, you have the spirit of a gospel evangelist, i don't know why you choose willingly to ignore the inner calling of God in you in place of things that are far below what you are made up of?
  
  Can you choose a day we can relate very well, heart to heart in matters of spirituality?
  
  time is scarce, but just a day will suffice, maybe not today.
  
  Reason is, I know you to be someone who is deep into the inner working s of humanity Soul, spirit and body; encompassing different aspect of life. I discern this from your numerous comments though.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's patronizing Felix. You see these things are far above me, esoteric Christianity is a mammoth set of teachings. What is below me is the regurgitation and the rampant misunderstanding of scriptures.
  
  If you do not apply the teachings to your own path, you will miss it. It is all within. These states are achieved by going within. In the process of doing so, you will see other religious doctrines are leading to the same place. Whilst you keep arguing that your religion is best, you are going against what is innately part of Christ consciousness, the teachings of Jesus being a part of that consciousness.
  
  I abhor segregation in religion and humanity at large. I abhor the lack of respect to other humans because they chose to have their own set of beliefs. I abhor the pompous nature of righteousness (lower mode).
  
  I have the inner calling of my own spirit, my own integrity, and I take what works for me via many sets of teachings. But I will never align to Fundamentalist Christianity because you look externally for what is to be found inside.
  
  Jesus was a man, a human being, separate from God who achieved the state of Christ Consciousness. This is an alignment to a state of being. Every human being has the same capacity, therefore we are all the sons of God. To say otherwise is false, exclusive, separative and goes against the ideology of Divinity.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Divinity? Now, that's funny Jewels.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In this context Divinity is the same as Union. You don't do divinity, you be divinity. And it is not done to you or for you, you align to it. Bloody hard to do.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh okay. Still funny.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @ Jewels bloody impossible.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have a go, you may surprise yourself.
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe Yeshua when He said, "Without Me you can do nothing." He was talking about nothing as far as showing others the kingdom of God.
  
  But when it all comes down to it, if our Father were to stop thinking about us for one blink of an eye,,we would die right then and there!
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm going to make every one happy and take a few weeks off forums. Unless that spoils your joy in taking cheap shots?
  
  I am weary..just looking at the computer screen. I am going to do some real research and come back fresh later
  
  And also spend some quality time with my sanctified imagination
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good! There is quite alot you need to learn.
  
  In other words madness is soothing.
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewels, I really do appreciate your trying to help. But altered stats of consciousness is very dangerous. It opens a person up to forces that will eventually take you over.
  
  Yeshua does not do that. The Spirit helps us.
  other spirits will help us to a point and then they take over.
  
  I already know what everyone else is going to say
  so save your fingers
  
  ha ha ha ha ha
  nonetheless it's true
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Consciousness is an in-depth understanding . If Jewel Believes in divinity cagsil, do you have any problem with that?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But understand Felix that the divinity I'm talking about is not external.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Consciousness is an in-depth understanding...and where did you happen to pull that thought out of? I'm sure I know, but I'm wondering if you do.
  Do I have a problem with it? Sure. Jewels can believe anything she damn well wants, just like you can. Again, doesn't make it any more real than your fictional G/god.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's real to me Cags, but not to you. And it's very apparent that my experiences are far removed from Felix's. Is great to deconstruct beliefs, not easy, but necessary. And then there is word gravity when in forums. I don't want to, nor like using religious terms because of what comes with them. But for some experiences there are no other words. Divine can be a word to describe the best ever cheesecake. A description of what it feels like in those spaces in meditation. I don't use it to describe an external being. Major difference in having an experience and reading about them.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Jewels, I have walked up and down my consciousness, and never once found a G/god at the other end. I actually call this- "skating on consciousness" and no it's not meditation.
  I'm not doubting your experiences Jewels, especially when comparing it to Felix.
  I didn't find it all the difficult to "deconstruct" many beliefs I used to have when I was younger.
  Not sure what you mean here.
  I understand that.
  I know.
  Yes, I know.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's an internal thing and had I never done 12 years of meditation practices I'd not have seen the differences. That's basically where I'm coming from. They are surreal experiences, but experiences nonetheless. Is not easy to bridge to this knowledge unless you're with someone who is having similar experiences. So the experiences are one thing. The knowledge of how to get to them is written in spiritual texts. But of course as we have seen time and time again, they are misunderstood. And how they are taught in Christian circles is the opposite of the intended way. It's an internal learning.
  I do appreciate your respect Cags
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know it's an internal thing and I've never meditated in my life.
  True enough. The interpretation of the experience is what matters. Having said that and knowing we both know that "interpretation" is always going to be difficult.
  I'm not so sure of that. I have bridged knowledge from my subconsciousness which I didn't have anyone else with similar experiences to glean anything from. And yes, it's quite an experience.
  Experiences always bestow knowledge of some sort.
  I don't read spiritual text. I find no need considering the answers I seek are within me.
  Without a doubt.
  I will agree that Jesus' teachings are purely internal. That much I did glean from my research of World Religions.
  Good to know. I appreciate yours as well.
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
  
  Taken as a set of teachings it becomes just another religion. Learning to know the Person of Christ and asking Him to actually be your Master and take His place on the throne of your heart are two completely separate deals.
  
  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
  
  YHVH gave His Constitution [the TORAH] to a group of people at the base of a mountain which was just commemorated this past weekend--the same visitation only with greater revelation of who HE is to those that are seeking to know Him and not just to practice some religion.
  
  This was to demonstrate that man of himself is incapable of living up to the full potential of true goodness the YHVH is. So, after Yeshua [Jesus] died, and arose He sent His Spirit to indwell us to empower us to overcome that part of self that is powerless to do so.
  
  "And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness." Romans 8: 10
  
  Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: I Cor. 1:6
  
  We need Revelation Knowledge to take our place in the kingdom of our Father. Yeshua did not come to start another religion. He came to reestablish the Father's kingdom that Adam failed at doing.
  
  but seek ye first the reign of God and His righteousness, and all these shall be added to you. Ylt
  
  This God is reestablishing the garden. For those that refuse to humble self and give Him back His throne, they will be left to themselves but the self will be in such torment as it never knew He will give them their desires!
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And you find this by going within.
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  ShalahChayilJOYposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't find Him by going within. When I was in my darkest hour of despair and life appeared extremely hopeless, a cry arose from my spirit, "God save me from this hell." Thus He answered and led me by His Spirit on a very long journey of inner healing.
  
  God is both within as I study and meditate on His word {Romans 12: 1,2 and Psalms 1, Joshua 1:8, Deut. 28: 1
  And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe [and] to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
  
  and more
  
  He is above, beside, under holding me up and above me protecting me.
  Yehsua said, If you continue in My Word you shall know the Truth and the knowledge of the Truth shall set you free.
  
  free from limited knowledge like only what one can find in the world and from others
  
  I do not worship trees, rocks or other inanimate objects.
  
  It's like when two people live together and they become more like each other, and if it's a healthy relationship both will blossom. In relationship with Yeshua you blossom. He does not hide your true personality; He shines through it.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go through the eye of the storm, shovel off all the mud and mire that life has dealt you. Take away the sins of the father that you have been brought up believing and find yourself under it all. Take away all the beliefs you have been laden with. Have experiences that align to a sense of integrity inside YOU, not anyone else but YOU. Give yourself credit, you are underestimating yourself.
  
  In the chaos and mud of a depressive state, it is because you are covered in all the crap that is not the real you. You can say it's chemical, you can say it's the food you eat, you can say it's all the bad things you have been dealt in life. It is only be dealing with it that you overcome it. YOU were the one that asked for help. It was YOU who chose to change. Only by YOU changing can your problems be solved. That is how you find your true spirit. You say it was something external. It was YOU who made the choice. YOU cannot love someone else until you find it inside of you first. It's impossible. It is false love if you are not involved in the process. YOU.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  agreed ... as also we "were" born either Adam or Eve, faced with the same temptations such as was described of them having gone through.
  
  We are all given the same opportunities however diffrently the enviroment was that we came up through.
  
  Or something like that?????
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The son of god is god. In a way, but w/o the rest of it, unacceptable. Jesus himself said that God dwells in all of us. He never said "God dwells only in me!" He said "His light shines from out of your eyes." He never said "His light shines out only my eyes." You can't justify what you and others insinuate by Jesus' own teachings. Jesus was just like you or I. He slept, he ate, he defecated, and he BLED.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He also died on the cross and rose again on the third day. He also said "No man can come to the Father but by me." He claimed to be God's son, which made Him equal with God. This was not lost on the Pharisees, who were ready to kill Him on the spot.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go get them Jewel, you have done your homework!
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Been sayin' that God is as much about the inner self as it is about the outer universe.
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  Bonitaannaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I believe that also! I believe that it is the inner self that is the first place to connect with God the Holy Spirit. Our helper! That is why Jesus made a point to say it right after he rose from the dead when He said it was important that he leave so the Holy Spirit could come and be our helper.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The inner self defines the outer self. The inner self is a place of communion with the God given consciousness within, while the outer self is a place of communion with fellow humans.
  
  It's all about perceptions and understanding, whichever way you choose, one has to be sincere about it.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus also categorically stated many times that the only way to the Father, to God, was by believing in Jesus as the one sent to take away sins. That's not "Christ Consciousness," that's Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But Chris, it's only by doing as he did that you yourself find the kingdom of heaven. Dissect the teachings and apply them to yourself and you will understand. Do as Jesus did.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But that's not "Christ Consciousness" either. That's simply obeying what Jesus commanded.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, but to get to this massive level of consciousness you go within. It's what Jesus achieved, hence the understanding of he becoming Christ. It's not enough to obey and believe.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's very true Jewel, Jesus knows that we are mortals with a lot of limitations, the more we strive to be like him, and the more we spread the message of love which is very central to the teachings of Christ.
  Being like Christ is actually self denial, whereby you see less of yourself, your ego, and personal aura has to give way to selfless services that glorifies God in the lives of other people.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  First you have to see it in yourself. If you don't see it in yourself you can't see it in others.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Self consciousness is a difficult thing for many people, it appears as though it is easy but really looking inward is not so easy for many as it suppose to be.
  When you look inward you think less about your passions instead of other people's own. It promote love and relegate self centered perception to the background.
  Jewel, i believe this sums up your core ethics right?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not quite. You actually become more self centered, but not in the way you think. That's the paradox. It's not the selfish self-centerdness.
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i know, but it is still not an easy thing for people.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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Window Painposted 12 years ago
Haven't you folks settled this yet??
;-)
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some of us have. Others, not so much. It's about time for another onslaught of anonymous posters for Jesus, though.
  
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  Felixedet2000posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is the son of God is a hot topic, the awareness is not pronounce, the whole world have to be inform real good.
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zampanoposted 12 years ago
But I'm terribly disturbed with a question :
If the son of god is god
if we are called brothers and sisters by that same son of god
Aren't we also god ?
Or would we be gods ?
Oooohhhh ! My head is aching...
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are indeed an emanation of God, the source of God is within us therefore.
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Shikinahposted 12 years ago
The holy scriptures state that God has no beginning or end, this to many is almost impossible to conceive. Yet the bible also mentions in Genesis that Jesus also known as the "word" of God had a pre-existance before coming to earth. It says in the beginning was the "word" so it shows that the "Word" Jesus Christ had a "beginning" he was the first of all creation, that is why he is called THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, because everything else was created through him. so how could Yahweh God be also the "word" Jesus Christ?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The understanding of "the word" needs clarification. It is misunderstood as biblical texts which is incorrect. Jesus known as the 'word' in effect means an emanation of the source. The source being God. God is not an 'arms and legs' human construct. In the beginning was the 'word' - according to scholars refers to primordial chaos, that out of which the entire creation was formed. In cosmology Christ consciousness is a level of emanation, much higher than the experience of human existence. Jesus was a man, like you and me, through spiritual practices he achieved the level of consciousness known as Christ consciousness. It is a level that can be achieved by all humans if they too can walk in the shoes of Jesus, or Buddah, or any spiritual initiate of high discipline.
  
  I agree with you - Jesus Christ is not Yahweh God.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jewels,
  I understand what you are saying, no God does not have arms or legs as he is spirit in nature. But scripture quotes that Jesus in the beginning was beside God and the first of his creations thats quite straight forward. Scholars according to who? No Jesus didn't have to develop the "christ consciousness" it was there from the moment of conception, only to be fully acknowledged at his baptism, when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon him. We have the ability to activate that which the new age call "Christ Consciousness" when we understand and apply the true meaning of carrying Christs torture stake and the true meaning of love. The teachings of Buddah and of the other prophets are taken from those of Jesus Christ.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It means Jesus (beside God) is separate to God in the realm of duality. But in essence is an emanation and no different.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree about Jesus being born with Christ Consciousness. His initiation was no different to how man is to apply it today. There is a seed within us all to attain this state. And it it one which is difficult to hold. At the crucifixion he did lose it where he cried "God, why have you forsaken me" It shows the vulnerabilities of a man, same as any human being. There are missing years in the life of Jesus which of course begs questions - "what was he doing in that time?" It is speculated that it was a time of great spiritual practice for him, in which much of his transformation took place.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is Christ Consciousness? as It is used a lot within the New Age teaching. That seed that you refer to was in Jesus right from the beginning and wasn't something that he had to invoke like some kundalini rising. He was a perfect man, yes he gave way to tears and didn't want to face death. The same way as Yahweh confessed regret at ever creating man, yet he is perfect, that is why we are made in his image. Yes I have heard tales that Jesus may have visited India, does that mean he may have learnt something from the yogis? I am fully aware of the teachings that humans are on a spiritual evolutionary journey, the next jump being we ourselves are Gods...Isn't it funny that this is how satan seduced the first created couple Adam and Eve, by saying you can both be like God knowing good and bad.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm talking about a state of mind. Christ Consciousness is a state of mind - a state of awareness much much greater than the normal ordinary mental consciousness. It's not something to be invoked, it's an opening that occurs through intense spiritual practices - like meditation and self awareness and transformation. The seed is in us all, right from the beginning. Jesus showed the way, in other words he was an example of how a man could attain this state.
  
  Yes, what is Christ Consciousness? What is it for a man/woman to attain the level of Consciousness to become one with Christ. Jesus Christ became one with Christ - Christ Consciousness. Biblical teachings of the life of Jesus (Christ) showed he was an example of what can be attained - by following in his shoes. Jesus showed the way.
  
  If people could get a glimpse of what Christ Consciousness feels like, much of the biblical teachings would fall into place. When the teachings are applied to yourself, inwardly - it makes much much more sense. It's no longer an intelligent knowledge, it's real knowledge - as in experiential.
  
  Re Adam and Eve - The failure of awareness was not accepting that we could see good and bad and yet be no different to God. We saw ourselves lesser than - hence the fall. The seduction was fine, it was our response that got us into trouble!
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Christians are not taught to meditate in the way of eastern meditation, where we empty our minds. Jesus taught us to meditate on his word, by taking them deep into our hearts. That we were not just to be hearers of the word but to be doers of it also. Jesus was a PERFECT man, so no matter how long or how hard we meditate we will not achieve the mental powers that Jesus possessed. He was our role model. I personally know what Christ consciousness feels like, yes it has taken me many years to achieve . I didn't use meditation either and I don't expect to raise the dead. It grows stronger through endurance and being put under trials and tests, even in the face of death. It's making plenty of sacrifices. It's loving those that hate you and forgiving those which most would think least deserves it.
  Adam and Eve were seduced, by being enticed by their own desire.
  
  James 1:14-15 But each one is tried, when he is drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin, in turn when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just wanted to point out that Jesus as a young boy, would spend his days in the temple, quoting the gospel and sayings which even baffled the rabbis and high priests. This was something that came naturally to him. At one point he had gone missing all day, his mother and father didn't even notice until they were nearly home. Jesus didn't have to meditate or go into any trance to realise what his purpose was.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What makes you think he never meditated? Meditation and prayer are the same in real Christian practices. It's an inward space of stillness, solitude, and clarity. What was he doing in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights? Taking meditation out of spiritual practices is a false understanding of what meditation states unfold in a person. Understand that meditation is not a relaxation exercise in the true sense of what meditation is.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Many Eastern religions teach that the source of salvation is found within, and that the fundamental human problem is not sin against a holy God but ignorance of our true condition. These worldviews advocate meditation and "higher forms of consciousness" as a way to discover a secret inner divinity.
  This helps explain why so many Eastern mystics claim that divine realities are utterly beyond words, thought, and personality. In order to find "enlightenment," one must extinguish one's critical capacities—something the Bible never calls us to do (Rom. 12:1-2). In fact, suspending our critical capacities through meditation opens the soul to deception and even to spiritual bondage.
  No amount of chanting, breathing, visualizing, or physical contortions will melt away the sin that separates us from the Lord of the cosmos—however "peaceful" these practices may feel. Moreover, Paul warns that "Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). "Pleasant" experiences may be portals or even gateways. Some yoga teachers warn that yoga may open one up to spiritual and physical maladies.
  In all the meditation schools it is admitted that the thoughts emerging from deep, intuitive levels of the right brain may be good or bad. Dr. Nicol says: “If one waits for thoughts, your own subconscious mind, or even evil powers, may talk to you.” He therefore openly admits that meditation potentially opens a channel of communication to demonic beings.
  Jesus Christ while in the desert went into deep prayer to his father, strengthening himself in preparation for the test which was about to befall him. The Hebrews were often given over to foreigners for captivity by Yahweh because of their resorting to worship carried out by those who practiced such things. I speak from experience and know the dangers associated with such meditation.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All spiritual teachings opens one to demonic paths (and thoughts) - that is the peril of duality. Christianity is no different. I have followed a path of Christianity and prefer one of inward transformation along with virtue. Interestingly it is also what Jesus did. If you think prayer and meditation are different, you are not doing prayer in the correct way. That's your preference of course. Jesus' time in the desert was clearly meditation/prayer. It's splitting hairs to say it was a different practice.
  
  The divinity within is no secret, it's tangible and attainable with practice, as with any path of spirituality.
  
  It has been discussed on many occasion that Satan has taken realm over the Christian churches. It makes sense because most spiritual teachings take their students within and not outward. Modern Christian teachings unfortunately ask it's devotees to wait for Jesus to do the saving. When it's not the case. The kingdom of heaven is within. Within means going within, it is inside. Only demonic influence would take it's students or devotees outside themselves to find their heaven.
  
  I have had phenomenal experiences with meditation. I'm sad that yours were so perilous. How long have you practiced meditation? Perhaps you need to source your state of consciousness and unravel it's conditioning in order to become clearer with it. It is very true that a clear and quiet mind brings high states of consciousness.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry but I don't agree that ALL spiritual teachings open you up to Demonic paths. Yes if we mix teachings of Jesus with eastern mysticism or do not stick to the bible teachings but mix it with babylonian teachings which have crept into the church, then yes you will be open to such things. This is what Jesus warned us against. This is why God told the Israelites to quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in.. Not all Christianity is acceptable to God, that is why in the book of Revelations, we are told to get out of "her" if you do not want to share with her in her sins, for they have massed clear up to heaven. Yes Jesus prophesied that the church would be infiltrated, that is why she is called BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS, because she prostitutes herself with other religions and the kings of the earth. Jesus Christ is the sacred secret, the kingdom of heaven is within and we can experience a taste of that, but the full reward will be when Christ returns, and the Lords prayer which he taught us will be fulfilled. Not every one will understand or get the meaning of Gods word. So are you saying that Jesus taught demonic teachings? Jesus taught us the Lords prayer, it teaches us to pray for the Kingdom of heaven to be upon the earth, is not this external? Are you sure you were a Christian? Yes many have had wonderful experiences with meditation, so did I in the beginning. But now I have seen the true light.
  
  1 Corinthians 2 : 7 But we speak Gods wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory.
  
  2 Corinthians 4:3 If now the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the un-believers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ who is the image of God, might not shine through.
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Shikinahposted 12 years ago
Just one more thought, the concept of the Trinity did not exist before constantine, triad gods existed long before Christianity, and is a Babylonian concept introduced into the church to help the pagans accept Christianity. Theres a wonderful book by Alexander Hislop called "The Two Babylons" this book gives factual evidence as to where the triad god theory was derived from..
As the scriptures say... the ruler of this world has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so that the glorious illumination of the good news about the Christ may not shine through...
The truth has been hidden deliberately by the world council of churches, all member churches are trinitarians, the same council who has spear headed the Ecumenical movement which is promoting the unity of religions right across the scale from Hinduism to aboriginal ancestor worship. Their aim is to create a one world religion, as spoken of in the book of Revelation. They are re-creating Babylon the great right before our very eyes, yet the masses are too blind to see it.
Go on You tube and type in "world council of churches" and you will see how they put a statue of Buddha on the alter of Christ. Is this not the great apostasy which the bible says would take place before Christs return? Jesus said " dig for the truth as if searching for hidden treasure" not just gloss over scripture and accept the Christian authorities as gospel truth, but to test the spirit and the origin it originated from.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely, you must seek the truth within. You must use discernment to know truth from within yourself. It is not enough to read and believe scriptures. Dig for the truth, search for the hidden treasures inside - My God they are extraordinarily beautiful. Glossing over scripture and taking them on face value is heresy to sacred texts. Test the truth. Test what you are capable of within yourself.
  
  May all religions unite..........how wonderful this would be. We are all ONE. Jesus did not teach separation. He would be in seventh heaven sitting beside the Buddha and Shiva and watching all humans be as ONE, united in mind and soul.
  
  To be Christian and speak of separation is Satanic. So the uniting of Churches is the work of Jesus, and Buddha and Allah, and Shiva and all deities. Amen. Glad you put that up for us to see.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If Jesus wanted to unite different religions, why did he come to teach the will of his father? Why were the Hebrew Israelites taken into captivity all the time? Yahweh/Jehovah says "there is no other God but me" neither will I give my glory to graven images. Jehovah God was totally against the mixing of darkness with the light. Why would he want to unite with pagan worship? the worship of creatures, the worship of mother Goddess and other deities. Your teachings are what the bible warned us about. You are not alone you are only fulfilling what has already been written. Since the emergence of the New Age and the teachings of Madam Blavatsky along with Alice Bailey, Christianity is taking on a whole new twist with such teachings as you yourself has mentioned. The bible foretells a time when this would occur. The most frightening thing is, that the Christ of the New Age religion also known as maitraya is lucifer.
  
  2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not happen unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;
  Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
  
  Isaiah:14:13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
  
  Yes what you think is a wonderful thing is detestable to God, as lucifer himself will cause the uniting of every religion, this is what the bible calls the GREAT APOSTASY...it will give satan everything he wanted from the garden of eden, and that is to be worshipped by all the inhabited earth. Why were Christians killed in the arena in Rome? because they would not worship the Roman Gods, why did the Yahweh bring plagues upon the Egyptians, because they worshipped other gods. Jesus didn't come to unite the works of the devil, he came to break up his works, not to dilute it with worship of monkey gods, gods with eight arms, gaia, mother earth and I guess you could throw a bit halloween in there too.
  
  Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
  
  2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
  
  If you knew the REAL Christ, you would not be happy for such things, because he is returning with his army of angels to destroy this religious set up at the appointed time.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I take it us atheists will be OK when this happens - right?
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess it depends on whether you receive the mark or not :-)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Scary stuff.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's what it is Mark, this world cannot continue the way it is...you have to be blind not to notice that somethings not right..Even people who are not religious have heard of the "New World Order" which the elite plan to bring about, this is bible prophesy unfolding. A one world government and one world religion both ruling over mankind for a short period of time.. Those who do not comply will not be able to buy or sell etc.. Of course it will look like the perfect answer to world peace, but it will be completely the opposite.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Considering the main religion in the USA is Christian, do you think perhaps this New World Order is run by them?
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Since this topic began you have not quoted a single scripture, yet you say you use to be a Christian? All you have done is quoted New Age philosophies which has nothing to do with Yeshuah Christ Jesus of the bible. I have spent over 30 years researching religion and studying the Bible, I know who is behind the New World Order as the bible tells us in the book of Revelation, rather than looking at just the parts of Christianity which you call Christ Consciousness, why not research the who message and why Jesus is returning again, I can assure you it's not to chill out with krishna and buddah, he is King of Kings, mighty conquerer and prince of peace. He will bring peace to the earth after he has battled with the dragon and it's worshippers. If what I say does not resonate with you, then perhaps you need to pray for wisdom and guidance so that you see the truth more clearly.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Scripture quoting is senseless jibberish. You need to be the scriptures, not just read about them. But this is in effect what Lucifer intended, and you have walked into the trap of honoring words in a book, not the deeds within the paragraphs. That is honoring a false god.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Wild beast "New World Order" is a political agenda run by just a few very powerful men.. The political and the religious agenda is described in the bible as the Harlot riding on the back of the wild beast, so this is an alliance, it has been in place by the UN for many years. The Lucis trust originally known as the lucifer trust is the organisation behind the New Age movement. The Lucis trust are the ones which provide the UN with it's spiritual source. Not many people realise that within the U.N there is a prayer room, with a black stone alter in the middle.. Yes they too worship the christ, but it is not the Christ of the bible.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh golly, this is definitely the work of the 'devil.' When Jesus (who aligned to Christ consciousness) comes down I hope he finds you hunched in your little corner of ignorance and helps cleanse your misguided soul - it sure is a mess.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Jewels, for some one who teaches Christ consciousness, you sure have a vindictive attitude, trust me I will no way be hunched in any corner lol.. I have no fear, when you know the truth it sets you free from all this melting pot of confusion. My soul is cleansed in the blood of the lamb, what else could be more valid than that?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You must experience the truth, not just read about it. This is where the failing will be. If you are not capable of coming close to Christ consciousness, you have not succeeded in walking in the shoes of Jesus. Reading from scriptures does not make you a Christian. It means you can read.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know what I have experienced? If I was to write a book about my experiences it would make Davinci Code look like a joke. I have experienced things that the majority will never experience..Jesus calls the Bible the sword of the spirit, how can you know if you do not know what it contains? Without studying the scriptures how will you understand prophesy? or the divine message..
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh! I've experienced many things and interestingly what I've experienced coincides with biblical texts - only when those texts are applied to self transformation. Intelligent knowledge of scriptures is useless.
  
  I am very understanding of divine messages - it's why I do what I do. It's more in line with Jesus and the Buddha and many deities than I've seen or felt from you. But that's not my problem is it. I'm not the one having reactions! You need to go within and see why you are becoming so frustrated - as I see is happening by your next post which is in capitals and clearly a sign of anger.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HERE IS A VIDEO BY BILL COOPER WHO WAS KILLED BY THE CIA, FOR EXPOSING THE TRUTH..HE WORKED HIGH UP WITHIN THE MILITARY, BUT DECIDED TO LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN. HE SPEAKS ABOUT EVERYTHING I HAVE JUST MENTIONED WITH THE EVIDENCE...WAKE UP!!
  http://youtu.be/yPUT03OlsNE
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Capitals are a sign of being rude!
  
  PS: I'm very awake........but thanks for the reminder - one should never be complacent should one.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No my capitals were intended as a warning as to WAKE UP, if you had taken heed then you would have watched this video and been a bit more aware of the path which your taking people down, and which god you are leading them too.
  Bill Cooper was such an informative man who put his life at risk to reveal the truth, yet individuals like you, no matter how clear it is, choose to remain in ignorance.
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No dear one. I am very awake and I don't need to watch your video. But thanks for your concern, it's not required though. I'm very happy with my truth and my path, my awareness and my experiences. No need for you to continue throwing your beliefs in my face.
  
  Take care now.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Uh... never mind.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
The Holy Koran has clarified this issue in many Surat and verse as follow :-

In Surat Al-Maeda (The Table Spread ) verses 72-75 :-

[72] They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

[73] They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

[74] Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

[75] Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

In Surat Al-Nisa, verse 171-172 :-

[171] O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

[172] Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mahmo, I don't think we are talking about the same God here. I am talking about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Moses. The God known as Yahweh, Jehovah & Yehowah, who has written through his prophets that a king who would also be a God, would be born as a ransom to set mankind free from the bondage of sin and death. God uses his angels as messengers. The bible makes it very clear who Jesus is from the following scriptures..
  
  Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a "Savior" has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
  
  John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
  
  Isaiah 16:5 In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it--one from the house of David--one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness. (a messenger does not sit on a throne)
  
  Isaiah 9:6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
  
  (He is mighty God not Almighty God, he is father of eternity by means of his shed blood, he has made the way open to those who accept him as the son of God the opportunity for everlasting life, he was the perfect man who passed the test which Adam failed.)
  
  You cannot acknowledge certain parts of the bible yet disregard the vital message it contains. Your reasoning is not much different to the Jews, who saw him as a mere man.
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Shikinahposted 12 years ago
One more thing the scriptures say that he was born of a virgin, does this not show you that this was no mere messenger? Three kings turned up at his place of birth to pay him homage as a royal heir to the throne of David. How comes you do not acknowledge this part of scripture?
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  Jewelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In those ancient times, Virgin was a term that was applied to virtue, so Mary would have been seen as a virtuous woman, worthy of mothering the 'son' of God. It does not necessarily refer to her conceiving a child without intercourse.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Luke 1:26-35
  Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end." Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God."
  
  The scripture above plainly shows how Mary herself could not understand how she could become pregnant when she was a virgin. On this account it wasn't referring to just a virtuous woman.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Luke 1:26-35
  Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end." Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God."
  
  The scripture above plainly shows how Mary herself could not understand how she could become pregnant when she was a virgin. On this account it wasn't referring to just a virtuous woman.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Shikinah, there is only ONE GOD who is the origin and creator of us and of our world.The matter does not accept any further justifications or further interpretations to add any other single god.

I am talking also about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Moses, who is also the God of Mohammed.It has been stated clearly in the Holy Koran in Surat Al-Baqara ( Cow ) in verses 135-137:

[135] They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

[136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

[137] So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mahmo,
  
  The bible says there are many Gods, even satan is called a god in a particular scripture. The bible clearly says that anybody not declaring that Jesus came in the flesh and is not the son of God is an anti-christ.
  Also nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek scriptures does it say that another prophet would be needed after Jesus, as he fulfilled the law and passed the test which Adam had failed, by carrying out is duty to the very end..
  If you do your research you will find that Allah is not the same God, he was a deity worshipped by the Arabs in pre-islamic times. The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc. All this was not practiced by the God of Abraham. This is why you see a crescent moon on the top of mosques and flags today.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
The word "Allah" is the perfect description of the "One God" of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims!

Is "Allah" only for Islam and Muslims?
[No! It is for All Three Abrahamic Faiths.]

"Allah" is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came.

On page one [1] of Genesis in the Old Testament, we find the word "Allah" seventeen [17] times.

Every hotel and motel has a Bible. Next time you see one look in the introduction, you will find samples of the different languages they have translated. For Arabic they have translated the verse in the New Testament in Arabic from the famous verse in the Gospel John 3:16 -

"For God so loved the world..."

- and the word the translators used in Arabic for "God" is the very same word used by Muslims around the planet, "Allah."

Where Does the word "Allah" Come From?

"Allah" comes from the Arabic word "elah"a god' or something worshiped. - (Arabic) means '

This word (elah) can be made plural (gods), as in "aleha" and it can be male or female just as the word in English can be "goddess."

"Allah" comes from "elaha" but it brings more clarification and understanding.

Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female)
"He" is used only out of respect and dignity - not for gender

Allah = Always singular - Never plural
"We" is used only as the "Royal WE" just as in English for royalty

Allah = Means "The Only One to be Worshipped"
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Shikinahposted 12 years ago
I don't know which bible you are referring to, but I have never seen the name Allah in any of them. I have seen the name "Alleluia" or Hallelujah which in Hebrew means praise Jehovah/Yahweh.
The clue is in the symbol Muslims use which is the crescent moon on top of their mosques, have you ever wondered where that actual symbol was derived from? If Allah is the same God as Yahweh, where has all the symbolism come from?

Here is some research I found a few years back...

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
For your information Al-Kindi is Muslim philosopher and not Christian ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mu … ilosophers ) He never mentioned what you said.

The cresent moon and star is placed on the top roof of a mosque since the reign of Ottoman in Turkey. Muslims used it because the cresent moon and star are both the creation of Allah in this universe which decorate the sky and it will give light in the dark of a night and the star can be used to find a direction. as many ancient Muslims were famous for astronomy .It is not a matter dictated by the Holy Koran or the Prophet ( PBUH ) and builders continued to use them just to prevent thunder strikes.

If you want to know the fact that Allah" is the perfect description of the "One God" of monotheism for Christians also hear this video of a Christian who converted to Islam and knows your Bible very well :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vGQa-35 … redirect=1

Prophet Mohammed is even mentioned in your Bible but your clergy concealed this fact. hear these two videos:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYPSb7w6 … redirect=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xHJ7JEQ … pic/97806#
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Shikinahposted 12 years ago
We can argue about this all day, and the name Jehovah was also in the Greek scriptures, but was removed by King James.. Now the church have brought out a new revised version which put the name of God back in it's rightful place. The we recognise that they deliberately left out his name, is by the way they write the word lord. Capital "Lord" is for where the name Jehovah should be and the small "lord" for where Jesus should be.

If you want to see for yourself the difference between Allah and Yahweh here is a link, which to me makes a lot of sense.
http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html
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PaulGoodman67posted 12 years ago
I believe that Jesus was a human being and he died 2000 years ago. I have yet to encounter any evidence to the contrary.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  First I need to see your evidence confirming this. Thank you
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you discovered any evidence to the positive?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can we conclude that you will believe anything in which you have yet to encounter evidence to the contrary or do you cherry pick your beliefs?
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you applying to me? If you are then it all boils down to faith.
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ro-jo-yoposted 12 years ago
I just want to say that the name of the Almighty written in Hebrew is YEHOWAH, which is replaced with LORD in the KJV. The name Jehovah is a German corruption of the true name YEHOWAH.
And the name Jesus is an incorrect translation of the true Hebrew name YEHOWSHUWA.
So all Christian churches are false. They have false doctrines, and worship Jesus Christ, which is false.
The name Allah is also incorrect, this is brought by Mohammad, he is bringing people to a false God so he is a false prophet.
A person has to study scriptures themselves and not be fooled by false doctrines and false teachers.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yehowah is more than likely the correct name for God, I know it is used in Africa. But there is no 100% proof of how YHWH should be pronounced, the main thing is that God knows that mankind has tried to make his name known.
  How many billions actually know the name Yehowah? why has it not been preached world wide?
  the scriptures say they will have to know that I am Jehovah.. It is prophesied that his name would have to be known world wide before the end of this system came. I personally don't see any other people making Gods name known to the nations why is that?
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  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Satan is in control of all organizations and has been trying to stomp out the true name of the Almighty Yehowah all along. The Hebrew people were given the name, and Yehowshuwa the Messiah declared his Father's name, and told us to worship his Father Yehowah with all our heart, mind and soul. All churches lead everyone astray worshiping false Gods. They are worshiping Satan, Satan wants everyone to worship him as God.
  Those that truly seek the Almighty will hear the call.
  Revelation 18:4 KJV
  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying , Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If someone pronounced my name differently because the correct spelling had been hidden, It wouldn't make any difference as long as they did my will and preached the message of the one Christ Jesus..
  All religions will be infiltrated because perfection does not exist and the man of lawlessness was at work even when Jesus walked the earth. That's the book of Revelations says "get out of her my people if you do not want to share in her sins" So Yehowah/Yahweh/Jehovah put's it into the minds of the wild beast one world order to turn on corrupt religion and destroy her.
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  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It states throughout the bible that the name Yehowah is great and that it is to be praised. If a person doesn't know the true name, that is one thing, but once a person does knows I think it is very important. And to seek the truth is also important because those that do not, will end up believing a delusion and a lie.
  The name is not Jesus the true name of the Messiah is Yehowshuwa, and Yehowshuwa stated that the greatest commandment was to love Yehowah with all your heart, mind and soul.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
The most important thing for the people to know is: who is He ? more than what's His name.In Islam the God has 99 name and you can find them at this url : http://sufism.org/foundations/ninety-ni … of-allah-2

Allah described Himself in Surat Al-IKhlas No. 112 of the Koran which reads :-

1-Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2-Allah, the Eternal, Absolute

3-He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4- And there is none like unto Him.

In that sense there is Only One real God irrespective of His name and any one who believes otherwise should think twice.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  With all those aliases, He must be hiding from something. Oh yes, He's hiding from us and doing a bang up job.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's funny :-) but first the Jews stopped using the sacred name because they thought it was too holy to pronounce, then when we thought we had found it King James removed it..and left it in the bible only in two places, Psalms and Exodus. Now the catholic church says lets remove it completely.. satan has tried very hard to get rid of Gods name. Its like you being called James but instead it's cut short and your called Jimmy or Jim, or would you just prefer your title man? It's the same with God no difference.
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  ro-jo-yoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There only one true Creator and his name was given to the Hebrew people, his name is Yehowah
  Islam is false, Mohammad is a false prophet
  Deuteronomy 18:20 KJV
  But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak , or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die .
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just want to commend you on your search for the truth, I read your profile and
  know the narrow and cramped road is a lonely one, but one which brings many blessings.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was to ro-jo-yo by the way :-)
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Anyway Jesus is not and can never be a son of Allah/ God and his story has been stated clearly in the koran.Here are some important verses about him :

Surah: 19 Maryam (Mary) in verse 35

( [35] It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is)

Surah: 3 Aal-e-Imran (The family of Imran)

[45] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;[46] "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."[47] She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

Surat: 5 Al-Maeda (The Table Spread)

[46] And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

[116] And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Surat : 2 Al-Baqara (The Cow)
Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What I am confused about is, you say your religion traces it self back to Abraham, who was highly favoured by Yahweh/Jehovah. Yet through out the Hebrew scriptures Yahweh's prophesies point to his promised Messiah.
  
  Isaiah 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
  
  Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way. He was despised, and we did not care.
  
  Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
  
  Psalm 110;1 Lord Jehovah said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
  
  These are just a few of the prophesies which were written before Jesus birth. The final one Psalms 2:7 actually says that Jehovah/Yahweh has a son...if it was good enough for Abraham then it should be good enough for you. It's written in black and white in the Hebrew scriptures.
  
  Psalms 2:7 “To declare concerning my covenant, Lord Jehovah said to me, 'You are my Son and today I have begotten you'.”
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Although as a Muslim I am bound to believe in the God's / Allah's holy books including the Bible, however I am not sure about the changes made in it or in the Psalms.I have already my holy book and it credibility can be tested through known means.In fact the Koran as holy book has stated many facts about the Messiah. Here are samples:-

Chapter 3 The family of Imran - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 45 ( Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah )

Chapter 4 The Women - An-Nisa: Verse 157 ( That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:)

Chapter 5 The Table Spread - Al-Maeda: Verse 72 ( They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help)

Chapter 4 The Women- An-Nisa: Verse 171 ( O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.)

Chapter 4 The Women - An-Nisa: Verse 172 ( Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer)

Chapter 5 The Table Spread - Al-Maeda: Verse 17 ( In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 30 ( The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! )

Chapter 61 The Ranks - As-Saff: Verse 6 ( And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" )

AND THERE ARE FURTHER MORE VERSIONS IF YOU NEED !
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  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you I appreciate the lengths you have gone to, if you look your Koran calls Jesus "Christ" which means anointed. There is no scripture within the bible which says that any messenger was anointed. And angels were usually used as messengers, like angel Gabriel. Please may I ask how many men did it take to write the Koran and how was it inspired?
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awareposted 12 years ago
no . the sun of god.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Shikinah are you trying to abuse me or the Muslims or the Holy book ??? It is not my Koran and thanks to the thousands of Christians who have known the truth and converted to Islam.

The Quran is a Divine Miracle of Literature [Prophesy - Science - Warnings - Wisdom - Truths]...and it has been Preserved 100% In the Original Language - for over 1,400 years!

The Quran was so meticulously preserved because it is the Book of Guidance for all of humanity for all times. That is why it does not address just the Arabs, in whose language it was revealed. In fact Arabs today do not comprise more than 13% of the Today of Muslims in the world today.

The Quran speaks to "mankind"

Quran speaks to all of mankind on a general basis without regard to race, tribe, color, social position, financial condition or genealogy.

Allah the Almighty says:

"O Mankind! What has seduced you from your Lord so Generous?" [Noble Quran 82:6]

The Quran is Wisdom Conclusive.

It neither condemns nor tortures the flesh nor does it neglect the soul.
It does not humanize God, nor does it deify man.
Everything is carefully placed where it belongs in the total scheme of creation.

Yet it obviously is not written in human style (chronological order). Those who would claim that the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the author of the Quran are claiming something that is humanly impossible.

How could any person of the 7th century utter such scientific truths as those found in the Quran?
Could he describe the evolution of the embryo inside the uterus so accurately as we find it now recorded in modern science?

[See: Dr. Keith Moore's book - on embryology]
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are no scientific truths in your Majik book - sorry.
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  Mahmoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mr. Knowless ! Iam sorry,I don't know in which career did you spend your whole life.I am not talking about magic and if you have no idea about the scientific truths in the Koran, I am sorry to say that your whole life will be wasted. To help you browse some of these sites :-
  
  1-http://kaheel7.com/eng/
  2-http://www.eajaz.org/eajaz/index.php?lang=en
  3-http://www.elnaggarzr.com/en/index.php
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - Another account? Well done - I didn't recognize you.
  
  LAWL
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for providing yet more Islamic propaganda websites, as if there aren't enough already spreading disinformation to distort and cloud the minds of the gullible.
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2. 59
  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I apologise for saying "your" Koran it wasn't intended in a rude way. But you still have not told me who actually penned the writings. Was it one or more persons and if so who? and were they inspired by Angels or another source? I'm asking as I would really like to know.
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3. 59
  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May I also say that the bible scriptures describe the human embryo long before the Koran.
  
  Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
  
  Completed by King David around 425BC
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Shikinah ! there were at that time, tens of thousands of his companions ("sahabi" in Arabic) who memorized the complete Quran from the instruction of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Even the prophet himself (peace be upon him) used to recite it with angel Gabriel once a year and in the last year of his life he recited it two times just before the month in which he died.

Next, the leader who came after the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) (Abu Bakr) entrusted the collection of the Quran to be written in one volume by one of the Prophet's scribe, Zaid Ibn Thabit. He kept it till his death. Then the next leader, Umar and after him to his daughter, Hafsa who had been one of the wives of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Then from the original text which now resides in Topkope Museum, in Istanbul, Turkey, the next leader, Uthman prepared several other exact duplications and sent them to various Muslim territories such as; Uzbekistan and Turkey and other places. These scriptures are still in museums there and one has found its way to a museum in England as well. All of them are exactly the same. Today many of the Muslims from these areas are still memorizing the Quran.

In fact the Koran gives more details about the human embryo than the Bible and this admitted even by Christian scientists :

Surah: 86 -- At-Tariq (The morning star) :

[5] Now let man but think from what he is created!
[6] He is created from a drop emitted [7] Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs: [7] [8] Surely (Allah) is able to bring him back (to life)!

Surah: 23 - Al-Mumenoon (The Believers):

[12] Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);
[13] Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;
[14] Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

How did Mohammed who was a desert illiterate man, know these scientific facts which the modern science revealed centuries later after his death ???
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1. 59
  Shikinahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Its not that hard to work out that a baby is made with a sperm and an egg..
  The bible gives another account where it talks about our DNA all of our components were down in writing from the moment of conception. There is no account in the bible that I am aware of where an Angel Gabriel or any Angel helps recite the scriptures. The only two religions is Muslim and Mormon, who have their own inspired books. How comes Yahweh/Jehovah didn't use Angels with Kings from the royal line of Judah? Something don't sit right when the creator changes his way of doing things after thousands of years..I personally do not believe that the same God has inspired the same books. Because if he did they would be inspired by holy spirit and not by Angels.
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Mahmoposted 12 years ago
Shikinah. Just forgive me because I can't keep myself from laughing at your comment .Who told you that Angel Gabriel is not the holy spirit ????

Read these verses from the Koran which recites who revealed it to Mohammed:-

Surah: 16 - An-Nahl (The Bee)

[101] When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

[102] Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims

[103] We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

[104] Those who believe not in the Signs of Allah,- Allah will not guide them, and theirs will be a grievous Penalty.

It is the same holy spirit who was sent to jesus .The verses includes also a reference to the people like you :-
Surah: 2 - Al-Baqara (The Cow);-

[87] We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

[88] They say, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word: we need no more)." Nay, Allah's curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little is it they believe.

[89] And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
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