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Where is proof of God?

  1. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago

    I have been having a hard time believing in God lately; well, really for quite a while. Let me preface this by saying that I believe in Heaven, Hell, and Angels. I just have a hard time believing in God. Part of me feels like my mind can't accept God. Not to sound above all, but it's like my intellect won't let me grasp something that there is no proof of. I have even gone as far as wondering how intellectual people could even believe in God, which I know is irrelevent because people of all intellects believe in God. To me the Bible is just a book, written and edited by men over and over. Nothing in the Bible we read is concrete and what read now has been so deluded over the centuries how do we even know it was what was originally written? Plus, you have the different views of God. The God that only allows those in Heaven that follow a certain path, and then the God who allows anyone who repents in Heaven. The whole concept of God just baffles me and I am wondering why people can blindly believe.

    1. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Proof? Proof is the ego talking.

      There is proof -- the universe exist, therefore He IS. I'm sure Rene Descartes would approve.

      Proof is you too afraid to walk down the fireman's ladder when your 10th story apartment is in flames.

      God is the artist and the universe is the painting, the canvas, the space for the canvas and the time which allows the canvas to persist beyond the moment of creation.

      God is love and abundance, but only if you ask. But the problem is, most people ask for one thing and expect something entirely different -- blinded by ego and a lack of awareness.

      God speaks to those who are humble and who really want Him. This is by design. For the trap only loosens with humility and faith. God's children are in the trap by choice; and they have to chose to leave.

      You cannot walk on water by using doubt any more than you can hammer a nail with a ripe orange.

      1. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The universe exists because of the Big Bang, no creator needed. Heaven, Hell, God and angels are man made concepts. If a voice(s) starts takling to you, run to your nearest mental health clinic.

        1. Ciax profile image59
          Ciaxposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What was before the Big Bang?

        2. tiffany delite profile image81
          tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          yes. what was before the big bang? where did whatever banged come from? where did the bang come from? what was the force driving the bang? where did it come from? do tell... smile

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Even though you were a Scientologist for many years? lol

    2. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Belief in God is a natural, rational state of mind. It doesn't need to be proved or backed up by literature or phenomena. It doesn't need to be argued or fretted over for belief in God is a peaceful knowledge that concerns only you. Of all the things we find to fight over, God need never be one of them.

      1. jacharless profile image80
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        OMG, where have you been?!

        1. lizzieBoo profile image78
          lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hi there!! I've just been busy, busy busy. I moved house, I set up a cafe, I'm having a baby. You know what it's like.

          1. jacharless profile image80
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, yes -except for having a baby. lol.
            Congrats on another lovely human!
            Cafe? Photos | Website or Facebook me, Congrats on another lovely human big_smile

            1. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes I'll send some pictures. It is quite exciting actually. Thanks for the congrats!

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            Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, Lizzie!  You're having a baby?!  Congratulations! big_smile  I'll be praying for you all.

            1. lizzieBoo profile image78
              lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks Motown. That's very kind of you.

        2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hallo james!

    3. ReneeDC1979 profile image78
      ReneeDC1979posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      GOD IS!!! I understand your question, doubts, fears, etc.  But, I pose a question to you: Is gravity real? You can't see it, touch it, or feel it.  But, you believe it's there.  Why?  Because that's what you learned from a book. Faith remains if you allow it.  I know you believe in God because you are asking this question.  How many things can you say you don't believe in, but you want others opinions about it?

    4. unitify profile image78
      unitifyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them. (John 14:21

  2. Ruben Rivera profile image80
    Ruben Riveraposted 4 years ago

    Ultimately there is no proof, anyne can say look at the sky, a flower, a child and you will see God but that is all based on belief, faith, environment.  I personally do not believe in hell, heaven, angels, or God as a deity as depicted by traditional religions, I think they are or have been created through history by humanity to control masses.  I do believe in an afterlife but I believe once we die and based on what we have believed, or what we have been conditioned through our life that is the environment we end up.  I have had experiences that make me believe this way but that is another long story, 

    My two cents

    1. unitify profile image78
      unitifyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I was just wondering what you base your believes on. Why do you believe there is an afterlife and what do you mean by afterlife.  Is there something concrete that makes you believe or is it just faith?

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        People believe in an afterlife out of desire.

  3. bBerean profile image61
    bBereanposted 4 years ago

    Creation is proof of the Creator.  No escaping the fact there has to be one, it is just a matter of whether you are willing to seek the real One or instead choose to create an imaginary god who suits you better.  Let anyone talk long enough about how they think we got here and they will eventually have to credit the obvious design and engineering to something, and that is their god.  Some create many gods to appease the need everyone has to come to terms with our existence.  We all know design requires a designer and for man to take pride in the intelligence required for our grandest accomplishments yet deny the intelligence behind the most basic cell which exponentially eclipses that accomplishment in complexity is foolishness and denial of the highest degree.  So step one is to accept what everyone really already knows...there has to be a God.

  4. The Invincible profile image60
    The Invincibleposted 4 years ago

    There is just belief, no proof.  There need not be any signs of existence. You can't see supernatural occurring with naked eyes. Had God made something for us to see Him, we could have...

    1. tiffany delite profile image81
      tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      i believe that in the realm of the supernatural, belief IS the proof smile hebrews 11:1

  5. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago via iphone

    I don't think I'm being egotistical by asking for proof. I guess I just don't think there is a singular deity that of God. Saying there has to be a God because we exist and the universe exist doesn't make proof for me. Saying that you just need to accept doesn't work for me. Why should I accept? Again, through personal experiences, I believe in angels and believe in heaven and hell, but as different plains.

    1. tiffany delite profile image81
      tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      i love the discussion this question has created, but i implore you, if you really want to know about God...ask the Creator, ask God Himself...i believe He expects us to know and experience Him for ourselves...He cares about each one of us - His creations - so much that He wants to have a unique personal intimate relationship with each of us...so, it's not really something that you can point out and say, "there, if there is proof of God it looks like that and only that right there"...it's more complex and beautiful than that. seek out God and you will find Him. blessings...

  6. jacharless profile image80
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Where? Everywhere and most especially you are the most relevant proof. Certainly, with so much gobble-goop out there, distractions, deflections, doctrines etc, which have been sewn into humans for ages, it is only natural people ask this question, among others. You were designed and created to already know and understand Creator and creation. You are the reflection of both. It is genetically built into you. No such ineptness exists. No need to question it, only remember it -and enjoy. Yes, I know this dismisses every pro or con notion of g/Gods, but I will not apologize for it. Perhaps, this question and others you have is a sign that your true self and the forgotten information is trying to surface...

    James.

    1. lizzieBoo profile image78
      lizzieBooposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Quite so James. Quite so.

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We certainly are not proof that God exists. We are proof that two people had a little fun and nothing more. Don't tell people not to question, tell people to question everything. That's like trying to see swamp land in Florida and telling them to not look at the property. Only the gullible or greedy would buy without looking.

      1. jacharless profile image80
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        g/Gods? What g/Gods? Now you are speaking paganism. Gods, angels, demons, heavens, hells, dimensions, parallels, incarnations, evolution, devolution, space, time, etc. These are all constructs of the same thing: Theos. the collective beliefs {pro and con} within the boundaries of Reason, that is the human mind, which presently is in a sufferance of amnesia, yes a sanctioning from immortality, lest humanity continue in this affliction forever...

        In no way told him/her not to question. My statement was there is no need to question. Everyone knows and understands the answer. It is a matter of letting go of the issue -the chaos and illusive images man has made to compensate for his affliction. Simple really.

        We are all the image/likeness of the Ineffable Everything -that is Creator//creation {universe complete}.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't believe I said God(s). And even if I did it matters not. One God, two Gods, millions of Gods, all the same lies. Somehow the belief in one God is not embarrassing?

          Telling someone there is no need to question is the same as telling them not to question. It's just a little more slimly.

          We are not images of anything but our parents. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary?

          1. jacharless profile image80
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, you did mention God, which is why I mentioned what g/Gods...
            As for necessity, it is clear you missed my point, which is fine.

            Necessity = ineptness or a lack of something. To me, this individual is NOT inept, is not lacking but is unnecessarily divided in their thinking -aka they are Reasoning.

            Mathematically, every question is its own answer. Example:
            Where is proof of God || Where = proof of God.

            Where is equal to Proof of, therefore it has answered itself.
            Reverse the process and you come to precisely the same conclusion:
            Proof of God is Where? || Proof of God = Where

            The human psyche is dualistic, that is how it is genetically programmed. to provide all scenarios of solution. Therefore, all information of every parameter of Q & A // A & Q already exists. A solution is the unified Q//A, also called understanding. Understanding or Philos when divided is necessity, because a parallel//wedge has been formed. Due to the many probabilities of thought, there can appear the likelihood of many Q//A A//Q that are nearly identical else having multiple Q//A's, but they are still the same united solution. Ergo, no need or necessity to question, else another solution is ripped apart causing irregularities//variables defined as Reason.


            James.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Necessity =  the fact of being required or indispensable; an indispensable thing.

              Sorry you math is not adding up. (Where) does not equal (proof in God). (Where) is a question and (proof in God) is what he question is asking. So the answer to the question (proof in God) is not (where).

              The human mind is not dualistic. This is proven by shutting down the brain with medication during surgery. When the brain shuts down the mind shuts down because they are one.

              1. jacharless profile image80
                jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If something is required, the thing is therefore inept, incomplete, having division, variables.

                So, let's see..

                Textual:
                four is greater than three. three is less than four. four less one is three. four threes is twelve. three fours is twelve.
                Numeric:
                4 = >3;  3 = <4; 4 - 1 = 3 || 3 = -1 + 4 or 3 = 4 -1; 4(3) = 12 || 3(4) = 12;
                In every instance the = {is} balances the equation. Where = proof || proof = where.

                Mathematically, the universe has no questions or answers, yet has both. The both united is the solution. The universe is not required, nor having requirement, yet contains every probability of every instance. The human mind is the same. The human mind was designed to understand itself and the universe. Therefore, as said earlier it is not necessary to question, only to realize or experience the solution.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  When Einstein was working on the general theory of relativity he had to add a variable because his math led him to think the universe was expanding, but at the time the universe was thought to be static. When we take away his variable we see the the math includes dark matter and it works perfectly.

                  Mathematically the universe should not only move forward in time. In the math time should go either way. The math shows us that the future is happening at the same time as the past depending on perspective. So much for free will.

                  The human mind is not he same. That's why we can only go forward in time. Your math using words is heavily flawed.

                  1. jacharless profile image80
                    jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Time is irrelevant. It is a variable itself.
                    Movement is not necessary either, which removes the time variable.

                    And again, just because something works does not make it fact or correct -it just means that system reached a solution - as in "removing His variable ... it worked perfectly".

                    Oh, contrare, the human mind is nearly identical to the universe, as more quantum is showing. The mind not only understands the universe, it communicates through it, with it and because of it. The human mind "moves" with the universe, etc. The mind, like the universe is one giant ball of EMR aka light.  Humans -ironically- think otherwise, which is one area hindering their final evolution >> or better said restoration to their previous stasis of existence. Free will {previous stasis of existence} is therefore hindered by the variable. The variable being Reason. This is Philos 102.
                    reality is energy x necessity -to the present human being- but actually immortality/free will//understanding is energy less necessity.

                    smile

      2. tiffany delite profile image81
        tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        yes...tell people to question everything. but it is also very important to ask the right questions to the right person...i believe our Creator hold each of us responsible for our own relationship with Him...in other words, chaoticpsyche (as with anyone) will only find the answer to this question by discussing it with the Creator himself smile blessings...

  7. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago via iphone

    Why is belief in God natural? Ever since I was little God has not been something I 100% believe in. Just because you believe in God doesn't make it natural for all to believe. To doubt would be natural. It's just a concept I can't quite grasp. Perhaps because in most view, God is a singular deity. I can't see it that way. I guess this is why it's hard for me because even here no one can give any absolute truth.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I can give the absolute truth, but you may not like it.
      There is no evidence for a God, angels, heaven or hell. There is no evidence because these concepts do not exist. We live and we die, no one gets out of this alive. Exempt the truth and move on.

    2. Oscarlites profile image57
      Oscarlitesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      IN  HOLY Scripture..   " a fool hath said in his heart that  there is no God."..          yet..  you accept there is evil?      you lose so much, my friend.. by not believing in the one that has made you.. if you were truly athestic, you would not worry about what other's beleive anyway.. .. you are loooking for proof..   some here have offered you that proof.       You can jump off the highest bridge with, or without that life raft.. yet check your own heart.. if you jump without it, yet you will hope there is one already there when you land.. because you know you are lost without it.. Jesus is omnicient.. omnipotent  and omnipresent.. he is that Life raft for the human soul..

  8. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago via iphone

    Plus, when you think of all the negative things happen it's even harder to believe in God. You have rapists murderers, etc. , war, famine, etc. Plus, you have those who are so religious that they condemn those who are not like them in beliefs, sexual preference, etc.  Why would God make people like that, on either side? So their existence is proof of god?

  9. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    The function of a deity in human consciousness is to bridge the psyche from the child-parent relationship to the I-the-adult. You pray to ask G-d for food, protection etc. in the same way a child does to a parent. If you are having problems believing in G-d, that means you are discouraged or disillusioned. It is slowly dawning on you that you are on your own. The next stage will be the I-god.
    The G-d within stage which means you will feel that the power is in your hands, and you make the miracles happen by owning the power and being accountable. There is something in you that is more powerful than what you see. But this does not come without first shedding the child-parent G-d. The one that provides and protects - the projection of the discontinued child psyche that needs a Father to aid him.

    The real G-d however, the Supreme Being is another thing that can only be relegated to mystery. You can take the esoteric route and be surprised to find another way of looking at it that is more holistically satisfying without being sucked into the obsolete conception of the child-parent G-d.  If you doubt, ask the questions and then have the courage to search for the answers. It usually leads to something amazing and worthwhile.

    Goodluck!

  10. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago via iphone

    So if it's so simple, why can't I just let go and believe? You say it's simple. It's not. And there is nothing wrong with paganism as there is nothing wrong with Christianity. It's all a belief system. But simply believing in God, when looking at how the world is, is not simple. And again, many of these posts are simply words, like the Bible. No proof. Maybe going to very religious sites would help me believe in more. And yet, it still baffles even myself that I believe in angels, heaven, hell.

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I you want more, then you have to go and look for more. Your mind is searching for a solution to an unsatisfactory answer. Those things cannot be found outside of you though but you have to equip yourself with the vocabulary and the knowledge to find that which you seek.

      1. tiffany delite profile image81
        tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        absolutely!

  11. berojgaarnews profile image61
    berojgaarnewsposted 4 years ago

    Dear Friends,
    I don't Believe in Idols or Images as Presence of God.All are the Blood of Adam and Eve.The God had Made Adam and Eve as his Shape it does not mean that Frist Couple Children are the God It may be Either Jesus or Mohammad or Moses or Abraham who ever May be.
    Jesus is made in shape of Adam's Child not God or Not God Child or God.
    It's Fear Which Rules the World.

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      don't be afraid, fear is just an illusion.

      1. berojgaarnews profile image61
        berojgaarnewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah Ceci you are right .God Means Psychic Fear Who does not Exists in this Earth

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          However you describe G-d is your algorithm.

          1. berojgaarnews profile image61
            berojgaarnewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God is Zero and in Zero the World Exists Like See your Nose Hole ,or Mouth or Where ever There is Hole it Denotes Zero and The World is Globe which seems Zero .
            You Started the Life from Zero and Enjoy with Zero and Finished in Zero.
            So the God is Zero.Lolz

          2. berojgaarnews profile image61
            berojgaarnewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God is Zero and in Zero the World Exists Like See your Nose Hole ,or Mouth or Where ever There is Hole it Denotes Zero and The World is Globe which seems Zero .
            You Started the Life from Zero and Enjoy with Zero and Finished in Zero.
            So the God is Zero.Lolz

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              you are not a nobody, you have influence.

            2. tiffany delite profile image81
              tiffany deliteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              interesting...hadn't thought about it that way before. but definitely very interesting.

  12. bBerean profile image61
    bBereanposted 4 years ago

    Chaoticpsyche, just so I can understand your dilemma better would you please define what you mean by proof.  There are many definitions, and any "proof" presented can be argued away.  Even when you think you have proof in a good movie or novel you never know when the author will undo it all as a dream sequence. wink  So, please explain what would be proof to you.

  13. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago

    bBerean - that in itself is another dilemma. What proof do I need to believe? I don't really know. I believe in Heaven and Hell without no real proof (i.e. not having been there personally). And I believe in Angels because when my mother was passing she saw "people" standing around her bedside. So I just don't know what proof. I do know that the Bible and just talk is not proof.

    On another note, I came across a theory that may be what I need. It's called Pantheism. Perhaps this is more towards what I need. I plan to research further.

  14. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 4 years ago

    Who made the Earth and Moon fit perfectly in a squared circle? Who made the square root of 153 the exact number of full moons in a year? Who made the Sun, Moon and Earth have the same numbers in their measurements as your heart rate, your breath, and the five Platonic solids? As above, so below. There are no coincidences.

    Everything is ordained by God, your creator.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol "There are no coincidences"

      1. janesix profile image60
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What is funny about that ?

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What is this squared circle of which you speak?

      Wikipedia:
      Squaring the circle is a problem proposed by ancient geometers. In 1882, the task was proven to be impossible, as a consequence of the Lindemann–Weierstrass theorem which proves that pi (π) is a transcendental, rather than an algebraic irrational number; that is, it is not the root of any polynomial with rational coefficients.

      I'm not sure what the square root of 153 has to do with full moons, but I'll do the math and find out. The square root of 153 is 12.369316876853. The number of full moons for 2012 is 13.
      I don't see the connection. Now if we take the square of 169 then we get the number of moons in 2012, but so what?

      Sorry, but logic dictates.

      1. janesix profile image60
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There are a couple of ways to square the circle. I am taling about a circle imposes over a square, where the two have the same perimeters. If you like, I can provide a link to a diagram of this, but only if you ask because I'm feeling lazy today.

        There are not a full 13 moons in a year. That is just the rounded up average. 153 is an "important" number, it even shows up in the Bible in the fish parable. It has to do with basic geometry and the vesica pisces. I can provide a link to that as well if you want. (at the very least, the writer of that section of the bible knew his geometry, but I think there is much more to it than that)

        But if you are only messing with me, and aren't really interested, then I won't worry about it. I have tons of links I could show you, because I can't show you the diagrams and geometric figures etc, in this forum. I'm not technically inclined and I don't know how to post pictures yet. If you really are interested in sacred geometry, then I will do my best to explain it to you, or point you in a direction of websites who can do a much better job of it than I can.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          But what does a circle in/on a square have to do with the existence of God?

          1. janesix profile image60
            janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The Earth and the Moon fit perfectly into a squared circle. There are many examples of this type of coincidence that cannot be explained by physics. These things aren't random. It's not random the apparent sizes of the sun and moon are the same. These are just the most obvious things. Like why should bodily processes like respiration and heartbeat have the same numbers as measurements of the sun and moon? People say these things are random coincidences that are just chance. I just don't believe that's true. I think they are signs from God to alert us to His presence in the process of Salvation. It is a process, in my experience. Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.

            However, I don't think it happens unless you actively seek answers to questions like "Who am I" and "Why am I here?" That's when God starts giving you clues, and you start to see things differently.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Of course not, and it can't be explained by anything else other than plugging in the number 11. If you use any other numbers, it doesn't work. So, the question begged is why is the number 11 used? Please explain?



              In other words, you want to believe coincidences are God alerting us to His presence? lol

              1. janesix profile image60
                janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes I do. I prefer to say synchronicities. There are no coincidences.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I live in a city of 5 million people. When to dinner with a few friends and their girlfriends/wives. During the dinner it was somehow brought up that one of the girlfriends just moved out of her apartment and the other couple said they just moved into an apartment. Turns out it was the same apartment. And the couple was getting mail for the girl who just moved out.
                  Big coincidence, but the couples broke up and they never saw each other again. So yes there are coincidences that mean nothing.

              2. janesix profile image60
                janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You don't need to laugh at me just because my ideas are different than yours. I respect your opinion and your views. I wish you would do the same for me. I have never been rude to you.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If your ideas are hilarious, far-fetched fairy tales that have no basis in reality and do little more than contradict, I will laugh at them.

                  You're free to laugh at my silly ideas, too.

                  1. janesix profile image60
                    janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's your choice.

                    I prefer not to laugh at people. Looking at my past behavior, I realize I was an atrocious bitch.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You start to see things if you don't look at the answers critically. That math will only work with those numbers, so it's invalid.

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Okay okay I found what your talking about. This math has been reverse engineered. Why did he start with 11? Why did he pick a triangle 3. 4. 5? Are these numbers random? Will it work is I change the square or the triangles?

          1. janesix profile image60
            janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            This is basic sacred geometry. You need to start from the beginning if you really want to get it. It takes at least a couple of months just to figure out the geometry if you're like me and you didn't start out knowing anything about it. You seem intelligent enough to me, you could probably understand it all quicker than I can (not saying I understand it all, as I get it through intuition, and then I have to go backwards and learn the math)

            Thing is, if you aren't really wanting answers, you won't see what I'm seeing. Plus, as soon as I understood what was going on, the knowlege through intuition stopped. Now it is completely internal. My knowlege of God is beyond faith or belief. His presence is with me always now. I no longer need hints and clues, so I don't get them anymore.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There is nothing sacred about this geometry. There is no connection with the number 11 and  the triangles therefore it only works with these dimensions. Only the gullible would believe that this geometry is sacred.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But, you didn't get it and we tried to explain it to you showing that it had absolutely no value unless you used the number 11. By that logic, any geometry can be formed fit if only one random number works.



              That has nothing to do with circle squared moons.

              1. janesix profile image60
                janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God has everything to do with it.

        3. Oscarlites profile image57
          Oscarlitesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I beleive it says.. in fact I'm sure it says that that the City of God is built "foursquare" and has very detail and undeniable description..

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Janesix found some website with numbers all over it proving god or some such nonsense, I had a look at the website and found that round moon in a square hole garbage. It only works with one number; 11. Hence, it is useless.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Of course it's useless, but that is what fascinates me. Watching people convince themselves that they can prove God exists with a squared circle. I'd love to see this site. I'll look myself.

          I love that term (squared circle). One can't make a circle a square. If one tried they would have a squared and a square can't be called a circle.

          1. Oscarlites profile image57
            Oscarlitesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus likened his people to sheep.. he said "my sheep know my voice"      some of you are not being sheep.   not willing to become one of his flock?

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do you really want to be sheep? The sheep don't follow the shepherd. The shepherd needs dogs to keep the sheep in line.

  15. 0
    GoldenThreadPressposted 4 years ago

    I can understand your misgivings, but it is good that you have some sense for heaven, hell and angels. How can that be, you might ask? Obviously, you never saw any of these, but in your loving mom's case, she "saw" angels and said so--how blessed are you to have such faith to accept this. And, that is exactly where the proof of God lies: in faith. We can argue back and forth but even scientists have pondered this question and one famous physicist actually meticulously and mathematically got the whole sense for matter down to a "thought" not an atom or molecule, but a thought. Whose thought?

    My speculation would have to be Someone who obviously was intelligent enough to sort everything out that we can't. St. Thomas Aquinas, a great theologian, pondered this very question. In his Summa Theologica, he gives five reasons why God exists. The first reason is that someone had to put things in motion. This ultimately had to have been done from a single entity or a First Mover. So, God's thought put into action everything we know of. The second reason is that it took a "cause" or reason to be. God is considered the "First Efficient Cause" and anything and everything emanates from Him and the effect would be heaven, hell, angels, humans, earth, etc. The third reason is that there ultimately must be Someone who has been from all time. Since everything we know of has a beginning and an end, we can postulate that God, who neither has a beginning or an end, remains as the Sole Being--Infinite. The fourth reason is that everything we see around us, including ourselves was made with a "value" or reason for being; therefore, only one Being could be the creator or source of all beings, and this is God. Finally, we know that not every person or every living being is endowed with a perfected intelligence. We know instinctively that it would take a "genus" of great intelligence to create such a wonderful world/universe as ours. It is this Being that sees the interconnection between all things past, present, future; created and yet to be created; that belong to this earth and beyond this worldly understanding.

    So the long and short of this is that it takes an act of faith to believe this about God, but I cannot help but know that it has to be a very special Being who made you, me, the animals, everything.

    God is this very Being who made the decision through His own Will (thought) to create this world and this universe. He initiated it and everything flows from His Thought and lives with a purpose, order and value. It is said that God who is All Knowing and creates everything, also draws everything back to Himself.Thus, we can honestly say, then in as much understanding as we humanly can is that our source and being comes from God.

  16. khmohsin profile image60
    khmohsinposted 4 years ago

    The creature of human being and this world is the the first proof of the some one who is managing all the matters in a mechanized method. Nothing happens without the will of God. You may see the creation of yourself then you will realize that God Exists.

  17. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago

    I think perhaps a major problem is the idea that God is "someone." Perhaps the idea that God is everything is much more tangible. For example, murder is a sin, but not because some God is going to punish you, but because it breaks the natural balance of us all being one entity. Maybe?????

    1. 0
      GoldenThreadPressposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God is "someone" and also "everything." That is the wonder of HIm. He is a mystery and someone that we come to know over time in a hundred million ways. God, to me, will be different to you, but He is the same Being. He takes us where we are and considers who we are and is present to both of us nonetheless. We all have our nature and being in God, maybe that is why we are all interconnected.

  18. chaoticpsyche profile image61
    chaoticpsycheposted 4 years ago via iphone

    Still don't buy that God is a being. I think perhaps we try humanize those things we don't understand. I guess my belief system is starting to come around as God being more spatial. Not a thing that will judge me and send me to Hell. I just can't grasp or believe in a single entity.

    1. jacharless profile image80
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think, then, you are on the right track.
      An "entity" delimits Creator to a typical mental, emotional or mythological "g/God" or "Supreme Being".
      Creator is not a being that judges actions for some small span of living then poof, off to the fires with ya -else to the happy place. If fact, the judgment came/went already -according to the Judeo-Christian perspective. So, what remains is an opportunity to expound the vast relationship and true purpose of human existence: an immortal life of body, brain and spirit that reflects what Creator is and [His] surrounding creation.

      It is no secret to figure out or mystery of hide-seek-find. It is quite simple and evidential. Very little energy//effort is required and even less thought required.

      imho...
      James

    2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It seems that if you look back at what the term "god" describes in myth and various cultures, you will see that it usually pertains to governing forces that decides fate. In Hinduism, G-d is consciousness and we are vessels of that consciousness. The body is created by that consciousness and it likes to embody itself as all of us.

      So yes, G-d in this context can be punitive if you are towards yourself. But G-d can also be benevolent if you are. It is really about as I mentioned above the algorithm you are operating on.

      1. recommend1 profile image70
        recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi again CCBT ! 

        so if I have no god do I operate on a different algorithm ?

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          absolutely... the god concept is borne out of the psychic need to bridge the child-parent relationship where someone more powerful rescues you. It is of course a projection of the psyche, in order to cope with the sudden adulthood. atheists have feelings of parental abandonment/neglect, so hence never knew that they could rely on a higher power other than themselves.

          einstein's God ofcourse is entirely different

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            As you grow into your own, your concept of G-d changes, from the no-god to the god-I. the god within, the power within you that is connected to something larger than you.

            1. recommend1 profile image70
              recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And the "something larger than you" is of course just a projection of the psyche, a 'being' constructed totally in the mind.

              Nice turns of phrase but the blanket statement that atheists "have feelings of parental abandonment/neglect" is a bit far fetched.  It could just be that us atheists are just more mature and able to give up the 'dummy'

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                you are "more Mature". lol that's mature. Well you know if the description fits you or not. So I'm not going to convince you.

                the larger Self, means that you are capable of so much  more than what is obvious because a larger power lurks behind your limited conscious mind. This larger power is connected to serendipity and the ability to manifest things that are normally out of reach. the ability to reach to z, having only x in the equation.

                1. recommend1 profile image70
                  recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Being capable of more than is obvious is within the capacity of the mind, nothing out there redirecting sub-atomic particles to force us to run into each by manipulating our tickets, putting up meaningful signs and other gibberish.

                  Math does not prove any of your assertions, except to your own preconceptions.

                  1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                    A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You seriously need a better translation software, buddy. Your English sucks lol


                    "Being capable of more than is obvious is within the capacity of the mind, "

                  2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    preconceptions?

                    what do you think subatomic particles are? they too are imagined in order for us to understand them using the lens of our human preconceptions. 

                    subatomic particles are not things, they are non-material "entities", are they conscious? it depends on how you define consciousness.

                    The things you know are all borne out of human preconceptions.  The scientific method is based on a human way of understanding which is borne out of his own habits of thinking.

                    What you call gibberish is in fact your preconceptions. I've been talking about basic math as well as fractal geometry. Are you not aware of "monsters" in a mathematical sense? These patterns never end, and they never reach zero.

                    So if you are a unit, and you are conscious, your consciousness emerged from what?

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Or, believers are just too afraid of growing up and dealing with adulthood, they want to remain childish their whole lives, believing in invisible friends.

            1. A Troubled Troll profile image60
              A Troubled Trollposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Or, believers are just too afraid of growing up and dealing with adulthood, they want to remain childish their whole lives, believing in invisible friends. lol

              1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Don't mimic me, Bill. Take your little sockpuppet out of the scene.

            2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              however a man copes, as long as he is able to transcend fear is a good thing. You cannot argue belief because people cannot help what they believe.

              The question is where is proof of G-d?

              First, define what you are arguing as G-d.

              Now if you're only externalising an inner conflict, no matter what anyone says, you will attack. Atheists are the greatest "Believers." They BELIEVE their is no god.

              I don't believe, I collect information and I make conclusions. My conclusion is the universe operates on repeating patterns based on different algorithms. They are not random and each human being is an algorithm of a larger similar entity or organisation as well as a smaller one. SO by that definition, is there a G-d? There is. a larger version of us operating in the same context but a larger scale.

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                math, math is the proof of G-d.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, they can.



                Take your pick, how about Zeus? The proof is in lightning.



                Yes, but we understand that believers work on the principle of belief and not understanding, hence everything to them is a belief because they have little to no understanding.



                That is just a belief, unless you have evidence to support it? What information have you collected that would support your belief?

                1. A Troubled Troll profile image60
                  A Troubled Trollposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, but we understand that believers work on the principle of belief and not understanding, hence everything to them is a belief because they have little to no understanding.lol

                  1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                    A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Can't fool me, Bill lol

                2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  well, atheists also work on the principle of belief, you believe there is no god.

                  I cannot convince you that there is a God, a higher intelligence that set creation into motion.
                  I can however offer proof that there is an intelligence or creative process at work in the universe. Is it conscious? does it have a concept of I? I don't know. I think it does because we do. If everything repeats in varying scales of existence, then it is logical to think that the higher organisation of human intelligence would be conscious too.

                  You can argue arguments, what facts mean. But belief is something not rooted on logic or facts. Belief must be respected.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Zues is a personification of the greek conception of the creative principle. Greeks are merely relating lightning to the creative inspiration. The gods were meant to convey relationships of abstract concepts.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I hold no such belief and don't know any atheists who do. I work entirely on understanding things, not believing in them.



                    No one can, it is currently a belief.



                    Lets' see it, then?



                    There is no reason whatsoever to respect beliefs, especially irrational and illogical beliefs that have no evidence.

                  3. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                    A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Apart from that, you are insulting my intelligence. God is an impossibility.

  19. sparkster profile image93
    sparksterposted 4 years ago

    I do not want to sway anybody's beliefs but I believe it's important to read as much as you can, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.  My own conclusions inspired me to write this hub:

    <link snipped - no promotional links>

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm pretty sure it's against the rules to promote you own hubs in these forums.

      1. sparkster profile image93
        sparksterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What should I do, get someone else to write it and post a link? lol

  20. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    Basic math shows you that all numbers emanated from zero and it radiates into infinity.

    Zero is not nothing. It is an abstract of a starting point.  Math is cyclical. You always reach to versions of zero, as in 10, 100, 1000, 10,000 etc.  Fractals show that the same image repeats itself in varying scales.

    Numbers describe the relationship of abstracts, and can be used to predict outcomes. So while they are imagined, they are in fact portraying invisible dynamics of forces. Weight, height, distance etc. These are all depicting forces that expand, contract and how they relate to each other.

    Fractal geometry reveals that nature is made up of algorithms. a twig, repeats as the branch, the tree and even the forest.  So if your head, your brain is the twig, what is its equivalent forest?

    You can even see the same patterns of the community of cells and human communities. While we don't look like a cell, our behaviours are like cells forming colonies as organs, forming units of countries made  of individuals who behave and function in relatively similar ways.  Planets rotate around stars in same basic way that electrons orbit around a nucleus.

    endless patterns repeating itself.

    My conclusion is the human is a microcosm of a larger entity that has the same, but larger conscious intent, to expand its knowledge and to grow and survive and learn more about itself.

    It is a conclusion based on what I learned. 

    Atheism is a philosophy of "lets not believe anything that may point to the fact that I'm going to hell"

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      by the way, hell is metaphor for confusion, no rest, anger and having no sense of greater order. It's not a place its a state of mind.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Your suggesting Atheists are confused, angry and don't get rest because we don't agree with you. Looking at you math lesson it appears you are the confused one.

        If we follow your pattern and we speculate that there is a greater entity then ours then you must also speculate that there is a greater entity then our greater entity and so on and so on.

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So why would I be the confused one, when you are the one who totally missed the point. Yes, there are organisations of consciousness like ours in varying scales because that is what the math is showing. Can I ever talk to this larger "dream within a dream" entity? I don't know. Is it me, in varying levels of existence, perhaps not? Math shows the possibility and what is possible in math is observable in nature.

          At some point, when you view the implications of mathematics, it become philosophical.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes of course, when we look at the number of stars in just our own galaxy and the number of potential planets with life on them and then you multiply that by the number of galaxies we come to understand we are not alone.

            When we look at how Einstein used math to explain the universe which explained that time should not play as it does we get an understanding of the abstract and how accidental we are.

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
              ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Okay...we need to grow from Einstein. New geometry now shows how NOT accidental we are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemPnZn54Kw

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Even though there isn't a shred of evidence to support what you learned, especially the claim for a "larger entity"? Seems evolution has got your number on that one.



      Ah, so you don't understanding atheism.

      It may have something to do with not accepting the conclusions of what people learned in light of having no evidence.

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Lol,

        really...people have got to "grow" from highschool science circa 1980.

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
          ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          you are not the first atheist I've met. Atheists, by calling yourself as such have identified yourself with what you don't believe. The need to say "I'm an atheist" is already in itself a big neon sign of I have a baggage against my mom/dad.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          More pointless diatribe, where is your proof?

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      THIS is your proof? lol lol

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I see this all the time with math majors and engineers. They spend all the time looking at the abstract world of numbers and have great difficulty communicating and understanding people most likely because they are one step away from autism. Ever look at the proportion of autism in silicon valley as compared to the rest of the world?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't think Cecilia is either one of those. She's obsessed with fractals.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not obsessed with fractals, so far it's the only thing atheists have nothing to say about. It's all ha ha ha, personal attack, bwahaha that's it? You can't refute the implication, at least...none so far.

            If there's anything I'm obsessed about it's people who call themselves ATHEISTS...to bother to name yourself is really ironic.

            I want to make a study on atheism, particularly those who say they're into science but no nothing about it.

            1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
              A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Then, what is your explanation for human life? Where did we come here from? What are we supposed to be doing in this reality?

              Explain, if you can.

              And, wait! Please explain how did the universe come into being. We all shall be spiritually enlightened. smile

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Human life organised from eukaryotic cells that formed communities to improve its chances of surviving,  we evolved based on an ever increasing need to ensure survival. Why we want to survive is a philosophical discussion.

                What are we supposed to be doing in this reality? well, we are living, passing on what we learn about our environment to the next in line in order they can continue to live. What is they myth's common mantra? Eternal Life. Nirvana, living at heightened awareness, conquering fear of death.

                We are here to continue living. Why?

                I speculate that it is because like we do not want to forget what happened in the past within our lifetimes. LIFE TOO does not want to lose its sense of unconscious continuity.

                1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                  A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  1) "Human life organised from eukaryotic cells that formed communities"

                  Tell us where did those cells come into existence.


                  2)  "What are we supposed to be doing in this reality? well, we are living, passing on what we learn about our environment to the next in line in order they can continue to live."

                  What is it that you are trying to say here?


                  3) "We are here to continue living. Why? I speculate that it is because like we do not want to forget what happened in the past within our lifetimes. LIFE TOO does not want to lose its sense of unconscious continuity."

                  This is your (inane) speculation, unless you can explain and establish your claim with sufficient evidence.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, as I said, people who are here to battle their demons won't get anywhere. If you don't know it, you don't know it. I'm not going to waste my time educating you.

              2. A Troubled Troll profile image60
                A Troubled Trollposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nonsense, there is plenty of hard evidence for relativity, it is not just speculation.lol

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ok, you need to give me a link of new of a person who actually did time travel.

                2. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                  A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

              3. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You do not need to be spiritually enlightened, just scientifically enlightened.

                The universe evolves in the same darwinian sort of evolution we experienced on earth. (once again, repeating patterns)

                1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                  A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "The universe evolves in the same darwinian sort of evolution we experienced on earth. (once again, repeating patterns)"

                  Pure trash. First, Darwinism is a belief system. And that the same belief system applies to the origin and development of the universe, is a lunatic concept.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "pure trash"

                    that's an argument with a lot of meat. lol

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But, I don't name myself as an atheist, that label was placed on me by theists. I simply treat their claims like any other claims.



              Good for you. Will we be seeing any math any time soon to your claim below?

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                seriously?

                http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7315374.gif

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                  ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  of i need to say it, you can assign any value to that equation, assuming you can valuate the totally of human life.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What does "x" describe?
                    What does "r" describe?
                    What does "n" describe?
                    What does "1" describe?

                    Normally, when presenting your proof for your math, not only do you show the math and link it to your conclusion, you also need to explain what they mean?

                    All I can tell so far is that equation is just gibberish and you pulled it out of thin air.

  21. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    it's all speculation at the scales we're talking about. but there are speculations based on actual math and those based on ignorance.

    the classic everything is random is OLD... guys, get better at it.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Trying to prove the existing of God through math is ridiculous. Just like the person the other day saying basic geometry proves the existence of God because if you take an 11 unite square and make a circle within and add a few specific sized triangles and draw another circle you get the exact proportion of the earth and moon. Ridiculous.

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        arguing the existence of G-d is ridiculous!

        But we all need something to do to entertain us, don't we?

        If you assign a human being as an algorithm, then you can prove based on math logic (as an argument, not an actual definitive proof) that the human consciousness does repeat in larger scales.

        there are many ways to argue that point, that is assuming you can. I am praying though that somebody would actually make a good argument opposed to what I just said.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Show us that math based on an algorithm. Keep fractals out of it.



          You can't make a purse from a pigs ear.

        2. A Troubled Woman profile image61
          A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You're insulting everyone who can think rationally.

        3. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I haven't seen any math logic that concludes human consciousness does repeat in larger scales. Human consciousness is a product of the human mind. We are not the only animal that achieves consciousness, but we are the only animal that achieves human consciousness.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            no, that's not correct. animals have consciousness, any kind of nervous system has consciousness. The level of consciousness is the only difference.

            And as I said, as far as I know we cannot valuate human consciousness, heck we can't even probably have a consensus on exactly what constitutes consciousness.  But fact is, everything repeats in varying scales. So if we have consciousness and everything repeats, then what are we in larger scales? Its mathematical proof. Actual proof, well we can't really grow larger than ourselves just as a neuron cannot go outside the brain and look at the face of the being that contained it. a neuron can only observe itself and the neurochemical that is flooding it.

            1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
              A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Anyone who believes in Chakras and Kundalini will eventually refute true scientific data. lol

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                who is talking about scientific data? did you? there are no scientific datas here.

                1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                  A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So it's allowed here to show lunacy as well.


                  datas? lol lol

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    yes datas. like tapas...

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just as I suspected. You don't understand what consciousness is and how it's tested. Consciousness is the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings. Not all animals have this, as a matter of fact only a few do. 

              Wikipedia
              The best known research technique in this area is the mirror test devised by Gordon G. Gallup, in which an animal's skin is marked in some way while it is asleep or sedated, and it is then allowed to see its reflection in a mirror; if the animal spontaneously directs grooming behavior towards the mark, that is taken as an indication that it is aware of itself. Self-awareness, by this criterion, has been reported for chimpanzees and also for other great apes, the European Magpie, some cetaceans and a solitary elephant.

              I'll give you that you may have some understanding of math, but you have no understanding of psychology.

              1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That is just an observation. It has a long way to go to become science.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Science is observation. And it is science.

                  1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                    A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Is that the definition of science?

              2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                sure...I've had this discussions before, look at the archives.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  lol. Then how come you don't understand it? You assume all animals are self aware, but when they are tested we find they are not self aware.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    i would do it, but really it's so last year when I cared what people in here thought.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Indeed. smile

  22. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago
    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Considering Larry Bradley does not talk about human consciousness, but instead claims it can be used to predict animal populations, it is puzzling how you managed to come to your conclusions.

      He assigns "r" as the value representing the "so-called driving parameter" but makes no attempt to explain what that constitutes nor does he define why he uses "1". For example, in many physics equations, "1" is used as a limit, for example, the speed of light, thus denoting that any result of the equation will always be a fraction of "1" or a fraction of the speed of light.

      Can you further explain these discrepancies and how you managed to come to your conclusions based on predicting animal populations?

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
        ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        wow...

        you want me to hold your hand as I walk you through it? lol!

        1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
          A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I just often go blah-blah-bla-bla-blae... no offence lol

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            we all know what we're getting into when we do the forums. sometimes you meet really cool people that add to your knowledge. Sometimes you just spiral down to bantering because its, lets face it, entertainment.

            1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
              A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          In other words, you are unable to answer my questions and clarify the discrepancies.

          As I suspected.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            the discrepancies are in your pockets of knowledge. smile

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Time and time again, you continuously come here making extraordinary claims without a shred of evidence. You post a link that had an equation there, most likely, you didn't understand it but posted it anyways.

              Now, after looking it over and discovering discrepancies, especially the discrepancy in which the equation has nothing to do with your claim, you refuse to respond accordingly.

              You're done here, then, and your claims are vacuous.

              1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So you are. smile

              2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                such contempt...I reserve real information for those that ask the right questions.wink

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You do no such thing, that is evident from questions from others here. Most think you have no idea what you're talking about and I would agree.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Really? You made a poll? lol

                    It is entirely speculation that I do not know what I am talking about. But that YOU do not know what I'm talking about is a fact.

                    Consciousness IS no longer exclusive to humans, based on an OFFICIAL consensus of neuroscientists. That life has levels of consciousness, based on their awareness of the external world.
                    That the issue now is qualia, the idea that there is a subjective experience of consciousness whether or not it is expressed in behavior.
                    That books have been published about this new conception one of which I have cited as the THE 25 BIG IDEAS, page 9 by Robert Mathews published in 2005 where I quote, it says:
                    "...asking whether an organism is conscious or not may be THE WRONG QUESTION. Rather, consciousness may be s question of degree."

                    This is based on 2005 definition of a consciousness as " the ability to create a mental model of reality."

                    Or DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER's I Am a Strange Loop, relating  fractals to consciousness-a book by pulitzer prize winning author wi write Godel, Escher and Back. Nature journal (do you know this journal? you don't look it up) calls Delightful,,,pulls off some remarkable achievements.


                    The fact is, consciousness is born out of a fractal brain. While the intelligent question would be to refute my claim (as many who Do know what its about) to be automatic iterations of nature requiring no guiding mind, you instead refute that which is already established, published, cited, applied etc.

                    Let me answer that question. If fractals produces systems that produce varying levels of consciousness,  then higher levels of consciousness can and most likely exist beyond our own.

      2. A Troubled Woman profile image61
        A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Visit TED (Ideas worth spreading) lol

  23. 60
    vkr08803posted 4 years ago

    Uncertainty and coincidence are the only two things which makes people to believe in GOD..!

  24. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago
  25. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago
  26. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    I know the difference between social science and hard science.  You however have not even realised how ridiculous your argument is given that nuero-scientists have actual proof, based on scientific experimentations in controlled environments (not theorising like psychologists do) that animals have consciousness.

  27. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    The question now is if there is indeed a scale of consciousness that is higher than our own, is it aware of us? Does it interfere with our affairs, do we affect it? Can we pray to it and receive blessings? OR is it also us, in a higher plane of existence? These are all philosophical questions. We cannot know if it is the G-d that religion preaches about, or just a higher being that  experiences a concept of Self in the same way we do, albeit in a larger scope?

    IS there proof of a Higher Consciousness? Based on math, yes. It can be argued. But Is this the Judeo-Christian G-d, the Father, the Adonai? Then, the answer is we don't know.

    Understanding the source of semitic belief might offer clues. Were they offshoots of a more advanced civilisation?Were they primitive people trying to make sense of the forces around them? All these, time will reveal. But there are evidences that point both ways.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry, but you have failed to show that in any way, shape or form.

  28. ceciliabeltran profile image86
    ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago

    I saw this youtube video. It has a lame title but it has a great argument. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJioWKPl … re=related

    but once again, is it the G-d that is being described in the bible? Or is that something else altogether? Wow, east river is rising....hmmm.

  29. PhiladelphiaOMF profile image60
    PhiladelphiaOMFposted 4 years ago

    Haa!  dont say that again, if you dont know road to somewhere, you need to follow someone who knows to show you. Myself and my family are a living testimony  a living and power God, the creator of heaven earth. Let me introduce Him to you
    He Yes and Amen, The beggning and the End, The Word through which all things were made, there was absolutely nothing that was made without Him, including devil (he can also testify to this, though he is a lier and will want to deny God), Another mysterious name of His that He revealed to some people that cares about know Him is Jehovah Nissi (battle fighter, He has fought for me several times). Anyway time will not permit me to tell you more. But incase you are interest and you want to know Him, honestly I can guide you step by step to know Him.  Let quickly tell you this, I have tasted Him He IS SO SWEET.  You too can come and have a taste of Him. Oh taste and see that the Lord is good.

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image86
      ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I am happy for you, but this is an intellectual discussion. Matters of Faith are objectified here. You don't have to worry about my soul as I am taking care of it on my own.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I have yet to see any intellectual discussion on your part.

        1. 0
          riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          One need intelligence to see intelligence.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'll keep that in mind when I dissect your posts.

            1. 0
              riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do not, might be very demanding to the constitutionally troubled one.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So, which sock puppet are you?

                1. 0
                  riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Einstein's? Or is it Stephen Hawking?

          2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
            ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol!

  30. ReneeDC1979 profile image78
    ReneeDC1979posted 4 years ago

    chaoticpsyche,
    I have been reading all of the posts and comments and referring back to your original question several times.  I love these types of conversations - they make you think, but also open your mind to other's ways of thinking. 

    You asked is there proof in God - I think I mentioned before that I struggled with this question also - but, then when looking at many of the comments we talk about belief and faith - so I am not sure if the question was really answered.  I saw alot of scientific answers, but I still do not think the question was ever really answered. 

    All I can add is that God is in your heart and your life in more ways than one.  His presence is different for everyone; just like the relationship with Him is different for everyone.  What we choose to believe or have faith in goes beyond proof - I think alot of times we look for proof in things, and when we get the proof, that is it  - we move on.  But with God, we continue believing in Him day by day.  Sometimes things happen which cause our faith to falter, but that is where we spend more time learning about Him, talking to Him, and understanding the word. 

    I had this conversation before "How can you really prove something if it has already happened?  Can we prove God created the heavens and the earth.  For instance, you have a car accident, yes you can take pictures, but when you go to court can you really prove the accident happened?  I can show you the pictures, but if you weren't there to see it -how do you really know?  I think that is where our faith in God comes in.  Can I prove His existence?

    I can argue with someone who doesn't believe in Him all day about why I believe in Him - but can I prove Him - All I can say is He keeps waking me up -so He isn't done with me yet - That is all the proof I need.

  31. Lady_E profile image81
    Lady_Eposted 4 years ago

    You breathe... and your heart is beating.

    Who do you think gave you life?

    Ps.  After reading your post again. The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.
    Stay Blessed.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Our biological parents, of course, unless one is conceived in a test tube.

  32. 59
    lukasdenposted 4 years ago

    all the info is right here==== http://ldenison.find-a-deal.info/

  33. Vellur profile image87
    Vellurposted 4 years ago

    When a baby is born you know God exists.
    When any creation is born you know God exists.
    When you see a child smile, God exists.
    When you have great parents, God exists.
    When you have a family you know God exists.

    When someone lends you a helping hand you know God exists,
    When you make a person understand, God exists,
    When you spread a smile, God exists,
    When you lend a helping hand you know God exists,


    I can go on - but to answer this

    Even when the whole world comes crashing down and you are still standing strong you definitely and surely know there is a divine intervention.

    If you truly believe and look within your heart - you will know the answer.

    I truly believe.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      When a tsunami wipes out hundreds of thousands of people in less than a day, you know God exists.
      When tens of thousands of children die of starvation every day, you know God exists.

      Yes, please go on.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image80
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, so what is your point?

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You really don't get his point? Really?

          1. pennyofheaven profile image80
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No. Please share how you understand it.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              When someone says God exists because of all the great things life gives we should look at all the disasters that life gives and see if they prove the existence of God as well.

              1. pennyofheaven profile image80
                pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes agree.

              2. ceciliabeltran profile image86
                ceciliabeltranposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This infantile concept of "G-d" is really sad. Must the higher being that set all of creation in motion inflict anything? Nature has cycles and in those cycles life is a casualty. While it is tragic in our view, from the point of view of eternity, it is nothing but the churning and maintenance of the earth. Do individual lives matter, yes. But they do not cease to matter when life is taken. You still matter after you die, because you have lived.  You had a name and a dream.

                Death comes just as life comes. It neither proves or disproves the existence of G-d. It only proves that  life flows in the same cycles as sleeping and waking, conscious and unconscious, alive and dead.

                The Creator is NOT some kind of superhero. While it is a disaster to us, to the earth it is just a hiccup.

                The power of prayer comes from us. It gives us the ability to transcend our perceived limits. BUT that said, because we CAN transcend limits through mere intention shows the consciousness, our consciousness comes from a Divine source. One that can intend and manifest.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Everything you say contradicts your claim for a Creator.

                  1. Terminex profile image59
                    Terminexposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Do you read properly?

                2. pennyofheaven profile image80
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Agree

                  1. east-west pro profile image62
                    east-west proposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    My new article explains more on this

  34. tabrezrocks profile image56
    tabrezrocksposted 4 years ago

    Imagine if the distance between Earth and the Sun is 150 million km and passed by the light in just 8 minute, then the whole Universe passed by the light in 30 billion years. That is equal to 285 billion trillion km away. If a man could run 40 km/hour without stopping, he would pass the distance in 810,000 trillion years!

    That is the greatness of God’s creation! If we believe in the magnificence of God’s creation, then we should believe in the magnificence of God
    People who think a lot about universe insha Allah will believe that there is a God!.

    To those arrogant people who deny the existence of God, In Holy Quran Allah(God) questions them about His creatures. Who is the creator of sperm and plant? People or God the All Wise Creator?

    “Have ye seen that which ye emit?

    Do ye create it or are We the creator?” [Quran 56:58-59]

    “Have ye seen that which ye cultivate?

    Is it ye who foster it, or are We the Fosterer?” [Quran 56:63-64]

    “Was it ye who made the tree thereof to grow, or were We the grower?” [Quran 56:72]

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think a lot about the universe and that thought has given rise to me knowing there is no God and the bible and other holy books were no written by God. Let's use your example of light. The bible tells us the universe is between 6 and 10 thousand years old, but we have light coming from stars that are millions of light years away. If the universe was only 6,000 years old that light would not be hear yet. All holy books are full of flaws that prove that they were written by people who had no more knowledge than anyone else at their time.

  35. faythef profile image72
    faythefposted 4 years ago

    I agree with the person that said..belief in God is natural...He planted Himself in our hearts...
    The proof is having Faith.
    When you have faith..you just know..that you know..that you know

    All you need is the faith of a mustard seed.

  36. east-west pro profile image62
    east-west proposted 4 years ago

    God particle answers a little. Still, people world over wonder. If you are spiritual, the answers lies in you and not out of you. you are that says Vedanta!

    1. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Works for me.

  37. Oscarlites profile image57
    Oscarlitesposted 4 years ago

    What big bang?   that has never been pinned down. what where when how. no it hasn't.      IN answer to many of these questions, where is God not? God answers it himself. he asks you these questions throughout HIS BOOK.    Where is your book that is without question?  God needs no proving.   HE says in one place. "Worlds without end". before it all existed he said "I was".  No, man has not comprehended it all, yet God is all in all. He asks which of you by taking thought can add even an inch to your stature?   Yes, He is God. Yes he exists. Yes, he Lives.      I have heard even that Charles Darwin said before he died that he had made a terrible mistake, that God DOES exist.  You can look at a shoe on a shelf , and mostly know what it is for, and that it is a "shoe"..  but until you put it on, my friend, You don't really know. And because you have two feet, you even know that you need two of them, one for each foot. But until you put them on you don't really and truly know that a shoe can protect your feet, keep you warm, etc. (if you had never had shoes.)   We only need one God, for he said heaven is his throne and earth is his footstool. Read HIS book to find out about him.. not some pitiful attempt at philosophy.. I'm certain you can even find God in Quantum Physics and in Mathematics.. In the Heavens, outer space and under the ocean, and throughout time. God always existed.. He merely brought order to the Chaos of the earth.. Chaos exists without his presence. He is the ultimate and timeless designer of it all..  read HIS book.  The Creator of the ends of the earth, and also the Savior of a lost world. No one else can ever save... He said Beside ME there IS NO savior.... He does not need to be proven.. except to you.. and He is there if you call on him in sincerity. ON the darkest Night he can answer.. in the farthest river or ocean or planet he can answer.. The proof is in all space, yet in the heart.. You can harden your heart, but you cannot cause him to not exist.   MOJ

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is plenty of evidence for the big bang. Perhaps, you have little understanding of it and are just tossing out denials?   



      That is baloney.



      Sorry, but there are no gods in science or math.

      1. Oscarlites profile image57
        Oscarlitesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        like we can take him out of science? or math?    there is nothing to argue here.  don;t you know the pyramids were built with ancient knowledge of the heavens.. God said you cannot number the stars.. or find the end of the universe..  If you were right, then he would be wrong.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          True, you are just talking nonsense.



          More baloney.



          Or, you are wrong.

 
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