why are we as believers so hated?

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   atomswifeyposted 14 years ago

   My smiley and God bless you was not in attempt to be passive agressive
   The Bible say to bless those that curse you
   I was doing that in all sincerity
   really, honestly
   
   I have done that before, said God bless you after someone had remarked at me so viciously

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      Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I wish all Christians had that attitude.

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      rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I believe you. what I should have said, can you not see, how someone who doesnt believe as you do, who doesnt know all this, might see it that way?
      Its not your fault
      the scripture said it
      your following Gods word, to a tee
      
      I am HONESTLY trying to answer your original question, or did you not need answers? Just needed to vent? (who wouldnt after being caleld a f'ing fruitcake? I dont care what your beliefs are, what provoked it, even if its true..thats gotta sting...)
      if you only needed to vent, I hope you  feel better.
      
      I know nothing much about your past, or how you got to be so devoted, or why you believe so strongly.
      
      Why do peole hate belivers?
      well, it was predicted, take comfort, you deliverance is near
      
      or, you have taken personal offense at all this, and no one could blame you if you did. You truly want to know what you did, in your presentation of the scripture, to make everyone so mad. (Trust me, you have made people mad.) You want to know, how to have more people hear you, and maybe be saved. You dont understand the mind of the unbeliever. You respect thier views and opinions, while dissagreeing. (its possable, I promise) If your reason for asking this question, is this second, I am trying so hard to help you. If its the first one, you dont need me.
      God bless you

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         atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Thank you
         
         Did you read my email yet?

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            rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            still waiting for it to open....I have a computer built in 1998...

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               atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               lol its ok dealt with that myself not too long ago after my laptop died.
               Miss my laptop still

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   wordscribe41posted 14 years ago

   Hi Atomswifey.  I want to say I felt the thread where you were called out individually was inappropriate.  Not sure about the whole gist of it as I chose not to read it because it WAS unacceptable to me.  I'm sorry that happened, I really am.  I was similarly called out on a thread and didn't appreciate it, so I can empathize with you there.
   
   That being said, I certainly don't hate you or believers.  I hate to think of this as an "us" versus "them" mentality.  I have loads of Christian friends, I respect all of them. 
   
   After Shaul's thread where I was called out, I did start to have a look at how I came across as abrasive.  I do have very strong opinions about this subject, and it does get me emotional. 
   
   I can't tell you how to handle this perceived hatred towards you.  I can, however, recommend that maybe, just maybe the negative way people respond to you IS worth looking at.  Is there a chance you ARE somehow involved in people thinking you come off as abrasive or "holier than thou"?  Could there be at least one iota of truth in this?  Having been similarly in your shoes, these were the questions I asked myself.  If enough people had that perception, it's my responsibility to pause for a moment of self-introspection, is it not?  That is indeed what I did after Shaul's thread.  I don't want to be disrespectful.  It was my burden to take a look at myself.  To have a moment of silence, to HUMBLE myself and ask:  How could I be handling this better?  If I'm coming off as abrasive, then I have work to do.  I need to find a better approach.  And, I think I have. 
   
   Take care, Laura

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      atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for this Laura and I agree sometimes my approach needs some working on.
      
      I have a very strong faith it is true and sometimes in my zeal I tend to forget about who it is I am speaking to. Not to cut anyone down! Please for everyone reading do not take this out of context.
      
      what I mean is sometimes I find myself consumed by the words I read and then quote that are found in scripture. Hard for some, who are not believers to understand, not believing IN it, In other words. Not that God does not open those "some" (and again not that all, do not understand), but I digress,..
      up to understanding if you get my meaning.
      
      I need to take a step back and reflect on that before I post responses. this is true. Maybe get prayed up a little more before posting.
      So that I am reflecting Gods message and not my own in other words there.
      Again, hard for some of those who do not believe in all of this to understand what I am saying there. But for some of those who do believe in all of this, I am hopeful they will
      
      It has never been my intention to display scripture to convict or condemn or insult anyone.
      My intention was to shed light on the truth as I know it to be.
      I understand there are those who disagree with me on several points in that.
      
      1. some will argue I do not "know" what the truth is
      2. some will agrue that the truth I am claiming is false
      3. some will be on the fence about the whole thing
      etc.
      And all of that is ok and perfectly fine with me. Really, it is.
      I mean, the whole point of a forum is to discuss and or debate issues, beliefs, news, etc.
      In order for a debate or an interesting discussion to happen we need two mor more points of view.
      And all I am saying, is my point of view is just as much needed as anyone elses here.
      It takes at least two to discuss something, at least two to debate,
      and if I were to think othewrwise,
      I would a "f-ing fruitcake"!
      LOL
      
      Forgive my candor there but its true

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         wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, too.    I think, in the end, some positive things have come out of all of our debates.  I've learned some important things myself.  At the end of the day, we're all humans deserving of respect.  I don't think you're a fruitcake or liar.  You are forthcoming in what you believe.  I've read some things that people have said to you and I have been offended for you.  We should never go that far.  It accomplishes nothing.  But, perhaps this thread has given some of us the opportunity to find some common ground...  as we are all human and come here with backgrounds others are completely unaware of.  Does that make sense?  Point being, I apologize for some of the things I've said to you.  I don't feel good about it.  I feel badly about how you've been treated, in reality.  I think it sucks.  I do think you have a place here in these forums, and I hope you stay.  I've learned quite a bit from you and Valerie.  Maybe not what you want me to learn, but I have learned some valuable lessons. 
         
         Now, I'm off to dress up in a Tiger suit (mascot) for my kids school.  I kid you not, to get them pumped up for a school fundraiser.  Yikes.  Please let my cheerleading days come back to me.  Not sure I'm the right woman for the job, but I'll give it a whirl...    Have a great weekend.

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            atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You too sweetie!

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   steffsingsposted 14 years ago

   SIDE NOTE - Hate is a feeling like any other, No biggie unless it's acted out WITH religious bigotry that prevents employment etc...
   HOWEVER: It's Always a MISTAKE to argue scripture. There is NO scriptural support for it (unless we're hanging out with some modern day pharisees - and I doubt that)?
   
   *Sharing ones faith (evangelism) is NOT arguing.
   *Giving a voice to faith (personal testimony) is NOT arguing
   *Defending one's faith (apologetic's) is NOT arguing
   *Explaining or studying more about your OWN beliefs (Soteriology)is not arguing
   
   Throwing around scripture and professions of 'LOVE' while begging people to Ppppplease slap my other cheek - is arguing
   
   Sometimes we must know WHEN its ENOUGH - Shake your feet!!!

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      rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      nice.
      

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4. 59

   Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

   This is now getting to the point of being laughable.  Atomswifey, I say this as a true child of God, but if you think being disagreed with is 'hate' then how will you tolerate it during the tribulation when God's sons and daughters will be tortured and killed for their beliefs?  Or are you one of those who believes that you'll be raptured before anything bad happens?  (Which the Bible goes against, but I've been noticing that anytime I mention the Bible you dance around it, or flat out run past it.)
   
   There's no nice way of saying this, but your faith is weak, but then what's to be expected?  Man's faith is weak.  Had you truly the faith of God then you wouldn't be acting like a martyr because people like Earnest think your beliefs are crazy.
   
   Had you the faith of God you would move on, not try to compensate for something.

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      atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      no no no I am not saying that at all and again I am being taken out of context here.
      
      I did not say that hate comes from one who disagrees with me. I know a lot of people do that.
      I emphasized in a post rather there are un-believers capable of great love and show it. I also said christian believers do not hold an authority on expressing love or kindness.
      
      Hate has many traits and characteristics. It takes on may forms.
      The hate I am speaking of comes from someone who calls me
      a F-ing fruitcake, an idiot, a moron, dumbass, etc. because of me stating my beliefs and quoting scripture.
      Are those not expressions of hate?
      I think they are.
      
      Everyone is entitled to their opinions are they not?
      Does that not include myself?
      I think it does.
      And to those who disagree with my opinions or beliefs are the ones I have engaged in discussion with.
      
      When someone throws an insult
      I have been known to simply say and explain that I am to bless those that curse me,
      "God bless you"
      To which I was responded with,
      "Don't f-ing go there with your invisible pyshopathic little entity."
      
      Nice huh?

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         Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Do you continue to bait though?  When someone says, "Don't f-ing go there with your invisible psychopathic little entity" do you dust off your feet and leave (as Jesus commanded) or do you continue to try and defend your faith? 
         
         It's exhausting to defend our own faith, because our faith is weak, and God's faith doesn't need defending, because it's the strongest faith that there is, and it doesn't need mankind defending it..

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            atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I reason there are more than just that one in the forums reading and so I stand, and when I have all to stand I keep standing.
            
            God only knows who is just reading and absorbing from both sides. So in that, I defend my God whom I love and reflect His Word to those who may be on the outside looking in.
            
            Did John the Baptist give up?
            No, he was made to stop.
            But he did not stop his witness regardless of the opposition. He knew the message was for everyone not just the pharisees who tried to silence him.
            
            He shouted the truth from morning til night as his Zeal for the truth about God was propelling him to do so.
            
            In other words, if I were to be witnessing, or talking to someone directly, face to face and lets say as they would to insult me or God in that way, I would wipe the dust and move on
            But if that same someone had questions I would respond and answer.
            If they chose to continue the argument without really wanting to accept the answers then I would as I have, stop and wipe the dust.
            
            But being this is an internet forum where there are many many people interacting and in different ways including some who happen to agree with me, some who do not agree, but are respectful of me anyway, and some who just read and not respond at all.
            
            In other words this is not a private chatroom it is a public forum, with more than just two opinions, beliefs, thoughts, feelings etc. More than just two sets of eyes as well.
            

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               Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Looks like you just danced around the issue which doesn't really surprise me.

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                  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  you noticed that too?
                  
                  and for the record, hubbers who think God's murdering (yes murdering, stop with the euphemisms already) innocent people (including babies) is not an attempt to cast blame on God. it is wondering how God can command his children not to kill, but himself kill. how the Bible can preach at us to love our children, yet God destroy his. just because he created us (in your mind) doesn't mean he is right in destroying what he created. comparing human beings being killed off by God to fictional characters being destroyed by an author is kind of absurd, actually.
                  
                  H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. it's what's for dinner.

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                     Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I noticed it when I offered a long passage from Romans chapter 9 to explain how Pharoah didn't really have a choice in keeping the Israelites; but AW conveniently went right past it and continued to write that Pharoah did in fact have a choice.

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                     Sybil Marieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I struggle with that question myself all the time. What I have come to believe (and this is just me) is God created us, created the natural world ( and the laws of the natural world) and all that is in in and gave us domain over it. Then he said take care of what I have given you.When we are in tune with him, or "plugged in " he gives us wisdom on how to take care of each other and this planet. He mostly works with in the natural and through people. But if those people walk away from him, away from his guidance, away from the power he has given ( though there are many who say the are doing things in the name of God and are doing things for their own reasons, you can tell the difference by their deeds, yes?)
                     and choose to say no thanks God, or creator or Allah or wantever you call him, we will take it from here. And then these people who have walked away commit atrocities, How can we blame God?Blame us, we are the people who have been given into our care this earth and those with in it. These are just my own personal thoughts on the matter

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                        steffsingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        The answer may lie in Defining the following terms. For each one there is a TOTALLY Different answer
                        
                        *KILL   *DIE   *MURDER *(and only after completely defining those) *DEATH*   
                        
                        FOR:
                        1)Yourself & what You believe is fair
                        2)Natural world/order
                        3)Spiritually
                        4)GOD's definition.
                        
                        Once we are able to distinguish these - the ANSWER will come Naturally.

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               steffsingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I first must say I love the passion, and admire it!!! Thank God for you!
               
               I do agree with you, Dear John was very vocal - in fact he was put to death because of a grudge against him (Mark 6:19?) NOT for ARGUING the gospel, but he did stand for what was right. He wasn't arguing at all-stated the truth to a BELIEVER & stood by it...
               
               Why GOD says not to argue is because it's NOT flesh & blood we argue against... It personally helps me to remember that. When someone personally attacks me, drops the good ol' F bomb to try to rile me up, I try to remember... Who is that again?
               
               p.s. I have sense of humor that teeter-totters on irreverent (pray for me!!!) so that helps also, Its comedic relief to see the venom from such a noble thing as faith... PRICELESS

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   Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

   No, there are still modern day Pharisees around today.

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   Rebecca E.posted 14 years ago

   I've read through this thread, but my question will be directed back to atomswifey,
   What makes you believe that Christians are hated?
   I don't feel you've clearly answered this, except by quoting scriptures, but what is your view? No scripture quoting here.

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7. 0

   rednckwmnposted 14 years ago

   got your mail, trying to reply
   looks like your going to be ok. 

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      atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you

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8. 0

   Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

   No one hates Believers, because everyone is a believer in something.Starting a thread asking for opinions from different standpoints then answering that if people don't like what they read then they can go elsewhere is the height of absurdity and hypocrisy. If you don't want to hear what people have to say in reply to what you ask then don't ask an absurd loaded question and then post it on a public forum.
   
   No one hates you. I was in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban and I didn't hate them. They were simply people fighting for what they believed and obeying the orders of those above them. Now before you counter that you are only obeying God's orders, God commanded you to love first, and to forgive. He also told you not to judge another's servant but leave them to their own master. Reciting scripture is not wisdom but a display of your ability to read.
   
   Jesus whole point was that people decide for themselves not simply go about following scripture blindly and do as those in power ordered. I am truly trying to understand what is going on here with you AW, but every time someone asks you a legitimate question that presents you with an opportunity to express your true self, you either deflect the question or throw up a page of scripture quotes. When will you stop hiding behind other's ideas and words. If I wanted to know what God thought I would ask him or consult the Bible myself. As it is you are not a pastor and this is not church and that is the heart of the issue, you repeatedly use these forums as a pulpit to preach, not discuss or debate.Even your title to this question rings of a sermon.
   
   I will keep reading your stuff and trying to understand it, but I can't help but start to feel that all of this is simply some perverse game to get attention that you are somehow not receiving in real life. if so you do your faith and God a great disservice and belittle yourself. Second why do you care AW if you love God so much then walk away from this all and live your life, why do you need the approval of others to legitimize your faith?
   
   I do alot of things to get attention on this site, I write about celebrities and make crazy claims that are ridiculous, and use topics I know will get traffic, but this is really starting to get ridiculous and unhealthy. You need to stop for your own sake.

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   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   I have to agree with every word Scott wrote here AW.
   
   I'm sure you are a kind and gently person.  Just show it.  You don't need scriptures to back up your every word.  Not every topic in Religion needs to be debated. So you like a healthy debate, that's great, but use your own words.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for your post Scott , I pretty much said much the same things ,maybe less eloquently
    
    I seriously think this lady is deluded and may be a wolf in sheeps clothing. The fruit over all is nasty and Atomswife's appetite for contraversy suspect.
    
    Have a safe n happy week-end everyone

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       atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       All I am asking for you and Scott as well is to read the first three chapters of Revelations. Pray and discern before lashing out at a fellow believer.
       
       And Scott,
       I am thankful for your service to this country. My dad served 20 years. And I know you do not hate as you are called to duty. I had a debate with another member on here who had told Valerie as she is entering the military to quote "have fun killing..." As she tried to minister the truth to him.
       I call that hateful.
       
       Like I said, hate comes in many dorms and is directed at a lot of groups of people. I had open debate with a few on here and it was open then as it is now to interpretation.
       
       Gods Word stands on its own. It is written on my heart. When someone chooses to fling insults at me rather than having an open discussion with me, I choose to go to Gods word in responding. I also quote scripture while clarifying within my discussions with people and it in no way is meant to condemn as I have done this. Again, read most of my postings. Go to Gods Word and then decide if I was being a "wolf".
       
       I fail to see where in quoting the Bible which guides to salvation and truth about all subjects is reflective of me being a wolf to anyone.
       
       Can you justify in Scripture where I have been? Can you point or direct me to where I have been a Pharisee in ministering the gospel?
       And yes Scott, as believers, knowing what we know we are to minister. We are all then called to preach. "Behold I send you out into all the world to preach the gospel." How then am I in doing that very thing being unloving, a hypocrite, etc.?
       
       Again, please read Jesus' letters to the churches in Revelation.
       God Bless

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          R.G. San Ramonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          "I fail to see where in quoting the Bible which guides to salvation and truth about all subjects is reflective of me being a wolf to anyone." - atomswifey
          
          Again, dear, you misunderstand. Quoting the bible does not make anyone a wolf. Remember that any action is done in a context, and the context made the difference in what you do. Yes, you quote the bible, but the intention and the implication is too apparent to be ignored.
          
          Like what was said earlier (can't remember which hubber), even satan can quote the bible, but the intention is different.

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             atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Ohh I see so one concludes that my intentions in quoting scripture are to what?
             Because if you read the scriptures I have quoted, to whom they have been directed, and the context in which they were given you will see my intent.
             I have used scripture to draw out the truth. To in a rather steadfast way, to enlighten and teach.
             
             satan used scripture to lure away from the truth within it. He twisted it to mean something other than what it does mean.
             I have not twisted Gods Word in any way, shape or form. I have used it to illustrate Gods love for humanity. The road to salvation.
             And some have taken offense to that. And that is the real truth here.

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                R.G. San Ramonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, I did read, and a lot of others did also. And we indeed saw the intent behind your quotes, both positive and negative. That is why people are "attacking" you so much, for lack of better term. You say that you quote to show the truth. But that is not what most forum posters here see. Remember that what you say is not enough to count as proof. Better start to walk the talk.
                
                Okay, enough for this much participation in this thread. I'm not learning anything new here anymore.

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                   atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   But here you are accusing me of not walking the talk I speak, or in this case write. Which you do not know me at all yet alone enough to make that comment.
                   
                   And too you are wrong about the "most" here. Those in agreement with me are talking via email to me. There are other avenues of communication you understand.
                   
                   
                   And what I write is proof of the fact that I am not this evil, unloving, pharisee and wolf.
                   I am merely quoting scripture, adding my perspective to topics of discussion.
                   If one chooses to view that as being anything else another member adding a christian perspective to these topics, then I cannot help that. But maybe drawing attention to my words in other posts on here, I can change that.
                   

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          Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Once again you totally ignore everything you are being told about how your actions are being wolf-like, and refer people to scripture. I have read all of revelations again and again, and those letters to the seven churches are just that letters to seven churches in Asia, all existing at the time John wrote them, but what does that have to do with you, you're not a saint. Again you assume that those of us not you are somehow less knowledgeable about the bible and are missing some wisdom that you yourself posses and thus makes you right.I might as well be talking to the wall, because you're obviously not going to listen to anyone else. You repeat the same argument over and over always dodging the questions you are asked and hiding behind scripture you assume none of us have read, here's a little bit of information for you since you ASSUME people like me are ignorant, I graduated from a four year bible college and am an associate pastor at a church. I spread the gospel through actions of love, compassion, and acceptance. I don't blindly quote passages out of context to paint myself a saint and silence those who point out my many mis-givings and narrow views. Funny thing is I don't need to quote scripture to you about how you're acting like the Pharisees and Sadducee of old, every time you open your mouth you prove the point for me.Since you have neither the dignity or maturity to know when to stop then I will. This is not forwarding any message. This Thread has become an exercise in futility and self aggrandizement, you're not spreading the Gospel AW, you're spreading ignorance and blindness.

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             atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             If you read Revelations as many times as you state then you would ahve also read what Christ said to them and to US! Yes they are relevant to all who read them!
             Jesus said "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"!
             Why then do you say, what does have to do with me or you?
             
             You have not read my posts to declare that I have not spread the gospel. You yourself condemn me for it!
             
             A pharisee of old did not claim Christ as their Messiah, I do. A pharisee of old denied the truth of Jesus and His message to repent. I however in my messages within scripture have pointed those facts out!
             A pharisee mislead people to believe that which is contrary to the teachings of Jesus that there is but one way to the Father and that is through the son! That it is only by belief in His son that we are saved! That it is not by works or good deeds that we saved, but by faith in His only begotten Son! The pharisee of old seen this as blasphemy!
             A pharisee thought himself to be wise in his own understanding of scripture rather than seeing the truth about how one is saved or favored by God.
             A Pharisee thought that one could not be saved unless he or she performed good deeds and lived by the law.
             Jesus set us free from the law! He gave us a new covenant, something which a pharisee would not understand!
             
             I have not in any way demonstrated myself to be any of those definitions of a pharisee so you sir have mistaken the truth of
             what I have written to propel your own ego to heights which if you read above could very well be a demonstration of a pharisee!
             
             You seem to be under the impression as it is socially acceptable to omit the Jesus who proclaimed and instructed us to as well proclaim that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God!
             
             You would rather be p.c. and instruct based on your own understanding of the scriptures instead of allowing Gods Word to demonstrate that path!
             
             And that is the truth!

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                Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Once again I stand in humble awe of your divine wisdom AW what was I thinking to disagree with someone of your tremendous wit and learning, I am but a PC dog groveling in your shadow, Oh Mighty prophet please illuminate us all with you profound truth and wisdom. You're right the Pharisees never stood around proclaiming their own wisdom or that they were party to the only true knowledge and path to salvation , wait this isn't the Bible I've been reading, it must be a comedy, I apologize profusely oh grand potentate and messenger of God, please forgive me.
                
                Yeah I guess that I would rather live with men and treat them as loved children of God does make me PC, I guess I really don't know why anyone would hate believers. I will bow out to your great wisdom AW, I mean you've made me look like an idiot and totally proved us all wrong again and again. Why do we even bother trying to argue against your awesome command of scripture and faith. I mean wow, what were we thinking coming into this forum and presenting you with the other side's opinion. Maybe we were all wrong I guess people do hate believers, I mean just look at all the nonbelievers that have lined up to degrade me on here, I feel your pain sister, it's us and them, get the nails and I'll get a cross and we can nail you up there so you can suffer for your faith properly.
                
                Aw I'm done with this. You obviously just want to argue with people until they all bow down and declare you right. There's no room for any other opinion in your life despite what you say in your posts.You seek to define yourself by others. You can not present an original idea on here you merely recite rhetoric and scripture, even your handle is someone else's name. Do you even have an original thought or are you merely a conduit to relay what you have been programmed to say? When will you wake up?

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                   Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Scott, you have stumbled upon, what might be, the crux of the situation.  Maybe, AW is testing herself.  She is using all of us as sounding boards.  If this is the case she is arguing with herself... It seems, to me, that she is the only person she truly listens to.

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    Sybil Marieposted 14 years ago

    I'm fairly new to Hubs and am a Believer in the I AM and his son. I Have to say I have been never been treated unkindly by anyone in the forums. I do understand that these forums, tend to lend themselves to a debate format...and I usually like it because it makes me look at my own walk and my own faith closer.
    My personality is such that I do not like to be told I have to do anything! (Childish maybe..it's something I'm working on).
    Also( correct me if I'm wrong) but Jesus (I'm talking about the words he spoke himself, or at least are attributed to him) directly never talked down to anyone or tried to force belief
    ( As was said earlier it was only with the religious of the day who thought they had the fast tract to God and condemned others,that Jesus took offence with).
    I mean we don't know all there is to know about Jesus, the Bible as it stands today was put together by a King and others he got together saying okay this book stays, this one doesn't.
    Anyway I'm just babbling now but I thought I'd jump in

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Welcome Sybil Marie nice to meet you

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       Sybil Marieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thnaks Eagle same here

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    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

    Actually, it is in the Godhead's right to do that.  What I don't like about a lot of believers is when they credit God for when things go right, and blame Satan when things go wrong.  Or they blame humanity in general.
    
    In Isaiah 45:7, God says that he forms the light and creates darkness; that he makes peace and creates evil, that He does all of these things.
    
    I know some people, (ironically believers of all people) will find this crazy, but I'm actually comforted knowing that God has a hand in all of this, because I also know that God has a divine will, and that's to bring all to Himself.
    
    Even if some painful discipline is needed.

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    lrohnerposted 14 years ago

    Is thread still going on? Sheesh...

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       Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Unfortunately.

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    I've been called a f***ing fruitcake many times over the past 44 years, never once took it personally, maybe thats just me.
    
    actually I take it as a compliment these days
    
    (ok, maybe when I was nine I took it personally)

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    its not the most offensive phrase thats for sure
    
    and one night I was part of a bunch of people on here who had fun with the f*** word...see f is banned , but f***king is not ( Goggle that is)...which is probably all irrelevant in a kinda relevant way !
    
    guess ya just had to be there

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    OT, Dennis 44 seriously?

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    atomswifeyposted 14 years ago

    "How much He truly loves ALL that they come to know truth and dwell with Him as well. How amazing and wonderful that is! That all are called upon! All are given His love so completely. Regardless of sin! How great is that? 
    Wow! Are we blessed or what?
    I cannot speak for anyone else, But I am soooo very grateful that God/Jesus Did what He did!!!
    
    Not so just I or a chosen few can be with Him in all that perfect love, perfect peace but that ALL could. If they only recieve that, accept that".
    
    -Taken from what I wrote here.
    Yes I am such a "wolf"

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    OT Lynne, Its my 44th birthday on monday, which is why I mentioned it. I'm having a fantastic weekend so far, met a very cool psychiatrist randomly in a bar last night and having some beer and music this evening with the folks I've met in the last 2 years in the north of england.
    
    The photo is about 5 years old and was taken at my cousins wedding at a medieval castle in wales.

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       Amanda Severnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Happy birthday for Monday!

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    Atomswifey,
    I've only just make your aquaintance here and I suspect that your motives for the most part are honourable but you are still making judgements about the superiority of one particular model of human spirituality. You chose christianity as your personal "user interface" with god / collective consciousness or whatever the mystery turns out to be.Other people have made a choice either consciously or otherwise to choose a different "user interface".
    
    The symbols and stories of the bible are only one way to gain access, there are many other equally valid ways in my view, many of which have been persecuted throughout christian history by popes and bishops.
    
    Is it any wonder that people who hold other viewpoints and choose other ways are suspicious when millions of people practicing other faiths have been murdered in the name of christianity.
    
    I suggest you read more history and less old testament to get a more rounded view of how such enthusiasm can sometimes be misguided and end in genocide.

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       atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Dennis, you make some really valid points. I did not intend in the broad use of my title to inference that it is ONLY christians who are hated, have been killed etc.
       
       The fact is that it is true many have killed and persecuted in the name of chritianity as well as Chritians have been killed and persecuted in the name of other faiths, or disbelief in the name of Christ.
       
       Hate is hate. Persecution is persecution. Regardless it is wrong on both sides of that coin.
       My intention in starting this was to show as I stated, my perspective on the believers side. As it was demonstrated in a very insulting and hateful way to me based on what I have presented. (Gods Word).
       
       And too, and please understand I respect your view points as well and you come to me with much respect and I appreciate that
       But the fact is if you read what scriptures I have quoted, who they were directed to and the context in which tey quoted you will see that I was not being in any way disrespectful to anyone.
       
       ON the other hand, my views about keeping an "open mind" to other religions, etc. is best reflectied as I asked others to seek here as well, not in The Old Testament but the New. In revelation to be exact.
       Where we find Jesus' letters to the churches.
       There is a church which is condemned by Him for this "open mindedness" being taken to extreme.
       
       I open to discussion. I have been open to that or I would not engage in here at all.
       I have not called anyone out on anything. I just have my beliefs, I state them. I know the Word, I state that as well. And I get bashed for it.
       
       I am not in any way talking about being challenged on it. And I think that is the point most are missing on here and about me. I am not talking about those who do not agree with me or my beliefs.
       I can have discussion and like I have said, I have many friends who do not believe in the same way or same doctrine I follow. I am not condemning anyone for that.
       
       All I am doing is drawing attention to the fact that some people spew hate.
       That is true isn't it?
       And that in doing that they do only what the Bible says they will do and that I am ok with it all as a result.
       
       Case in point, I do not agree with the different paths to salvation as you believe.
       Yet, I respect the discussion and open dialogue about it. I am not condemning you in what you believe, I am only not agreeing with you on it.
       If that were to be a topic for discussion for example, I would offer to it my perspective as well as what Gods Word says about it.
       People can then make their own decisions on it all or not. And that is what I have done here all along.
       
       Most of my posts have been on topic in other words. Just a different perspective than some who have their own perspectives.

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    Thanks Amanda, I'll have a beer for you this evening.

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    Well, dang my man have a beer for me too. Happy Birthday! Even if the pic is a few years old I am still amazed that you are in your 40's. Awesome! Take care and enjoy it.

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    cheers, Lynne

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    DancingRedFeatherposted 14 years ago

    WHY ARE BELIEVES HATED? Very simple really. The World hates beleivers because it makes them concious of their wrong doings. The WORLD is carnal and doesn't want to obey to a higher being, so they invent one for their suiting or don't believe in one at all so that they can do whatever pleases them.
    
    BELIEVERS..OBEY THE 10 COMMANDEMENTS - THE WORLD BREAKS EVERYONE OF THEM.
    
    BELIEVERS - don't take God's name in vain - World - does every fraction of a second. BELIEVERS: don't commit adultery WORLD: does it every day. BELIEVERS; don't steal. WORLD: every second there is a robbery of some kind. BELIEVERS; don't fornicate WORLD: live together without benefit of marriage and have sex with multiple partners BELIEVERS: won't lust WORLD: porn, perverted sex etc. BELIEVERS: don't covet what belongs to the neighbour WORLD: will take anything that belongs to his neighbour etc etc etc.
    
    So is it any wonder that the WORLD HATES BELIEVERS?

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Yep, exactly proving my point - you hate the World, and it hates you in return

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    The world doesn't hate believers. Most of the people in the world are believers.
    
    Believers aren't hated. What people hate is being told what to do and how to live their lives.

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       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It does Cole, trust me. What goes around, comes around - it is not an empty saying.
       
       Those who truly believe they are hated would vastly benefit from reading "Deathworld" by Harry Harrison, I swear

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          Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well I'm loved. If someone thinks they are hated, they need to change.

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             Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Exactly my point

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                Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                But they also need to understand why they are not liked. Otherwise they can't change. So maybe its not the fact that you are a believer, but that you tell people what to do. So believe all you want, but leave other people outta it.

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                   Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   They can't Cole. They are scared

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    DennisBarkerposted 14 years ago

    I don't see how this can be reduced to a black and white, good against evil situation. Thee are many christians out thee sleeping with other peoples wives, or stealing, or abusing children, as well as many non believers who do none of the things you mentioned.
    
    The world isn't a binary them vs us situation unless you view it that way by your own choice and ignore any evidence to contradict your pre conceptions..

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    Davinagirl3posted 14 years ago

    If you are a true believer of God, and you are steadfast in your faith, why do you care what a few people say?  I love believers.  Most of my family are ardent believers.  This thread is like beating a dead horse.  Wasn't Christ all about love?  There is none of that on this thread.  I think this is all about boasting and vanity.  Can't we give it a rest, already?  Have a Great Weekend, everyone.  Accept some love into your hearts, and share it!

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    DancingRedFeatherposted 14 years ago

    Here is my experience: Before I was in the WORLD and now that I don't run with my x-worldly friends..I AM NO LONGER FUN.
    
    So because I now OBEY GOD AND HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS,STATUES AND LAWS..I am a outcast. A miss goody-two shoes, who won't cover for her friends cheating on their husbands or boyfriends, who won't lie for them, who doesn't go with them to night clubs to pick up some guy etc etc etc.
    
    I have no friends anymore...they all abandoned me because I AM NOT OF THE WORLD ANYMORE.
    
    Am I unhappy? Absolutely not! By being a believer...I know who is a true friend and who isn't..I am living the experience, many women have professed to be my friend and when they see that I am A TRUE BELIEVER and not just a believe in God and do what I want kind of girl..it doesn' take long the phone doesn't ring anymore.
    
    Being a believer..I find out very quickly what a person wants from me and they don't stick around when they see they cannot get what they want from me. Exemple:.I met a woman in a business am in..once she heard I was a expert in immigration she asked me if I would help her with her demand for sponsorship..I said yes and we started being *friends*..but once I finished helping her and once she saw that I didn't want to do her beauty business..she dropped me like a hot coal..no more invitations to lunch, or for a coffee etc.. I am no longer of any use..THAT IS THE WORLD...A BELIEVER..would not have acted that way with me.
    
    What a difference being a BELIEVER..am happy with my true friends...MY CATS..I am free of the WORLD because when you run with your worldly friends you are always caught up in something that many times you don't want to be but because it's *your friend* you do.
    
    Being a BELIEVER..you are completely free. Being in the WORLD you are a slave to everything that is in the world..only you don't think you are because you see it through WORLDLY EYES and not SPIRITUAL EYES..
    
    Do I mind being hated because I'm a BELIEVER?
    
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!
    
    I haven't been so happy since I am out of the WORLD. Following Jesus WAY OF LIFE is easy and much more rewarding than being a SLAVE OF THE WORLD.
    
    So the World will always hate believers and even kill them because it shows them what they really are and bothers their concience and the world doesn't like to be reminded that they are not their own boss and cannot do what they want and get away with it.

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    Dancing- A few questions, if I may?
    
    1. You're happy being alone?
    
    2. Do you think you can be a good person and not follow the ten commandments?
    I don't cheat on my boyfriend, or pick up guys at clubs, but I don't follow the ten commandments.
    
    3. Do/did you ever make your friends feel guilty for not following what you do? Or place your beliefs on them?
    
    4. Why do you think they stopped being your friend?

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    DancingRedFeatherposted 14 years ago

    Not true that the World most are believers..if they were they wouldn't be breaking the Ten Commandments. The world believers..believe what SUITS THEM..make a god for themselves because if the world was doing what God said they should do, we wouldn't be in the chaos situation we are today.

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    Ok so most people consider themselves as a member of a particular religion. Whether or not they follow that religion strictly is something that cannot be determined.
    

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    DancingRedFeatherposted 14 years ago

    Colebaby..Absolutely am happy alone because I don't have false friends anymore.
    
    No, one cannot force any belief on anyone..because I follow the Ten Commandements and they don't..am no longer fun.
    
    You don't cheat on your boyfriend, fine, but then if you sleep with him and don't follow the Ten Commandments, to God you are not a good person.
    
    You see to be loved by God, you have to Obey Him, yet even though you fornicate, He still loves you, hoping you will come back to Him, but if you don't..then you will reap what you sow.
    
    People know I am a believer and people trust me much more than if I wasn't because it shows in my actions, the way I speak, my body language, my eyes that I am trust worthy to a fault.
    
    I'm not perfect mind you..I do make mistakes, but I don't make as many as I used to because I obey God's Commandments.
    
    Obeying God is a protection - not a hinderance.
    
    Obeying God takes a load off your shoulders - not put one.
    
    Obeying God is so life enriching - not making your life miserable
    
    I rather have no friends that false friends. Actually, I do have one friend in the world but she repects me that I will not run with her in night clubs or pick up guys like we used to do.
    
    As a matter of fact she admires me and says that I by my actions and not pushing my belief in God on her, started to make her think and she has stopped picking up guys and leading a cleaner life.

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    Yeah, our conversation is over.
    
    You have one friend in the world, and cats. I'm glad you are happy. Because in that situation I could not be.
    
    It seems to me that if people "trusted you" like you said, you would have a lot more friends. Like I said I'm glad that you are happy and that you have found peace within yourself. But you and I see the world differently.

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    The ten commandments were written for the followers of Moses out of Egypt. I was born here and now and didn't follow Moses.
    
    Jesus died on the cross to absolve us of our sins. So, if I fall in my way and sin, but I accept Jesus as the absolver of all then when I die that sin will be forgiven.
    
    But you are saying that if I do not live my life according to the commandments this won't happen. Isn't that why God made this to happen to Jesus because we are not perfect and he knows we are not perfect and therefore will not be able to follow to the letter the ten commandments that were laid down for a people of long ago?

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       atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus instructed to follow the commandments. This is not in its entirety the way to salvation. The teaching of the ten commandments were held in that by the pharisees who did not recognize that Jesus was there as their messiah and redemption for sin.
       The pharisees thoguht and believed at that time that adherance to the 10 commandments (the law of Moses) was the only way to God.
       Jesus, had a new message however that it was not by works but by faith in Him(Jesus) that we are saved.
       
       The 10 commandments are not a requirement to salvation but they are requirements by God to once one becomes saved to live by and adhere to. Also, by living a faith filled life and adhering to the first one especially we will only naturally fall in line as far as the rest are concerned. Not wanting to hurt the God we love by disobeying Him.
       
       Hope that helped

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    Davinagirl3posted 14 years ago

    "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another."
    – 1 John 4:9-11

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    Ok, so I go against the commandments and covet and the way I do this is by saying ooooh he's hot I'd do him, but I don't act on it so I don't take it to the next level but I have still sinned. By some freak of the day I'm involved in an accident and die before I can go back to God and ask for forgiveness for my weakness.
    
    I know this is an extreme case but bare with me.
    
    What would happen to my soul? Because it is that soul that is going to go floating around in the stratosphere until it lands either in heaven/hell/ or summerland.
    
    The believer would say what to one asking this question? Please don't refer me to the bible I know where to find the answers in the bible. I want to know what the believer in you a God fearing woman as yourself would instruct a friend with this question should they come to you.

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       Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Don't expect a straight answer.  You are in the wrong place for that.  I think you know your God well enough to know that this tiny "impure" thought does not impact the content of your character.  Go forth, my child, and sin no more... well, maybe a little

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    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

    @Davinagirl3,
    Could be, either way You have to admire her drive and dedication, with a hundred Marines like her that follow orders so blindly without interpretation or question I could have ended the war in Afghanistan in a month of course half the population would have been dead. I wish I could live in such a simple black and white world where any who do not give the correct answer to the God question are my enemies and unworthy of salvation and love, what a world that would be.
    
    I wonder what Jesus would have to say about that kind of world, I seem to remember him saying something about those who proclaim him loudly with their mouths yet in deed prove they are far from him. AW does possess an tremendous grasp of scripture to an extent but it seems to merely reflect the more popular passages that evangelist the world over have been using to paint a picture of fear and damnation for those who refuse their words, yet I do not hear the passages of love, tolerance, and understanding being preached here. There are more books in the New Testament then Just John, Romans, and Revelations. I digress, this is a fruitless point.
    
    Once again non-believers are being treated to the spectacle of Christians arguing dogma and denominational preferences amongst themselves. It was a mistake to allow myself to be pulled into this little game. I should have known better. Quarrelsome people have a knack for reducing others to their level. I do apologize for lowering myself to the point of pettiness and worldly pride. what a waste this has all been.

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       Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       She seems new to her faith, and a bit overzealous.  You are definately right about that.

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    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

    Is mostly anyone else noticing that while AW complains about us not reading her comments in the right context, that she conveniently reads our comments in the wrong way?
    
    Someone wrote:  (paraphrased)  You need to be careful, because as someone mentioned, even Satan can quote scripture.
    
    AtomsWifey:  *posts a bunch of a stuff that has NOTHING to do with the above post*  Oh yes, I must be a wolf! 
    
    
    Also, AW, you are being a 21st century Pharisee.  Just like the Pharisees in the Jesus' day, you condemn people who don't believe as you do.
    
    Just like the Pharisees, you spout a bunch of stuff that half the time has nothing to do with the situation, or what the person wrote, and then you declare it as gospel truth.

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       Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Isn't it strange how enthralled we all are in AW's motivation.  She could be anyone, and no one.  I will admit I am intrigued by her.  What does that tell me about myself?  I need to examine myself, and my intentions.  I think we should all examine why we are so mezmerized by her.

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       atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       where have I done that??
       It is not I who have condemned anyone!!!
       Point it out to me where I have condemned someone as you say. cite where I have said to anyone ever that they are going to hell. You cannot find any thing like that on me because I have never said that to anyone!
       What I have said in a debate over whether people send themselves to hell or God does is that
       1. there is consequence for sin. (I point to the scripture for people to read and interpret it for themselves)
       2. we are loved by God so much he gave His son for us not to be damned but have everalsting life (again I point to the scripture for reference and let the reader interpret it for themselves
       and that is all. Now the one who I was debating this over has become a friend of mine and we have found common ground in that we agree to disagree as far as our individual beliefs are concerned.
       Much love to yas there Fairbear!
       
       
       
       If the scriptures I quote condemn you or me, than that is what they do all by themselves my friend.

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          BJCposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          The Word is doing it's job!

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             atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             YAY!!!!!! And there she is!!!!
             
             LOVE YA, A GREAT BIG WHOLE BUNCH!!!!

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                BJCposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                YES!!   Luv ya girl

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    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

    I recall in one another topic that she described as being grown from an infant in Christ to a toddler.  So yeah, pretty young.

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    I wouldn't say enthralled but definitely need to let this one go. I don't understand how shouting the word or God or anyone is going to bring someone into the fold.
    
    I hope you guys have a great weekend. It has been interesting.

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       Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You're right, "enthralled" may be a bit much!

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       mealdatesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       As a Christian, I believe that we did not evolve but were created as humans.
       I quietly try to give encouragement.

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    BJCposted 14 years ago

    It's likely that believers have come across as arrogant, chintzy, better than everyone else, etc etc.  and people are put off by anyone who appears to think they are better.  I've been a waitress and the worst people to wait on were Christians, they were demanding, rude, and hateful.  If people choose not to hear or listen to what is said, it is their choice.  Having said that, I am a believer and there were times in my life I chose to hang out with non-believers of the Christian faith because they were real, no fakeness.  Then I realized that too many Christians do put on a "face" instead of being themselves whilst at the same time carrying on with, "Jesus loves you..."  I did write a hub on that because it was a wake up call for me persoanlly.  Actions really do speak louder than words and now that I a wiser , I choose to be a friend first meeting the person where the're at, then speak the truth.
    
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Pharisee-Anyone
    
    I don't see AW offering a God who vilifies and hates - it's all about perception.

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    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago

    When you replied to Scott, and told him that he's "of this world"
    
    
    
    Again, you did it with Scott.
    
    
    
    Nice way of putting words in my mouth, because I never said that.  There are other ways to condemn a person besides shouting that they'll go to Hell.  You can for example, "Bear false witness against your neighbor"
    
    which you did so here,
    
    
    
    In other words, 'You don't read the Bible as I do, so that makes you wrong!'
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    But according to you, if one doesn't make the right decision to accept Christ they get to be damned.
    
    Here's a question.  And I want an answer from YOU, not a bunch of scriptures posted in vain.
    
    Did YOU accept CHRIST
    Or did CHRIST accept YOU.
    
    Did YOU call to CHRIST and HE responded?
    Or did CHRIST call YOU and YOU responded?
    
    
    On one last note,  I also pointed out scripture Romans 9, which explained how God was using Pharoah for his divine will.  You, evidently skipped right past this.  Actually I know you did, because you never acknowledged it.

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    Mickey McNewposted 14 years ago

    Great post. Be encouraged Jesus said, "Beware when all men speak well of you"

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Can I borrow the line from my Tex friend? - You are smart!

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    Pearldiverposted 14 years ago

    You made this your First Post????
    
    Interesting; that you're trying to breathe some life back into this BS Thread
    
    You seem to be endorsing the building of a leaky house; not the best thing for a newbie chippie to make an entrance with...
    
    Might have been better protocol to say "Hello" to everyone Before you Started Preaching! Have you considered that point?

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    topgunjagerposted 14 years ago

    Hope this gives you an idea=)
    <snipped - no links in the forums, please>

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Could it be that you feel comfortable believing you are hated? Doesn't that "prove" you are on gods side.
    One minute religionists are bragging that they have the numbers, the next they are bitching about being hated like they are some weak minority. Child's mind games are not legitimate threads!

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       Deborah-Lynnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Time for Limericks, limericks, limericks....

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    Lee Booleanposted 14 years ago

    There is always going to be hatred whenever there is a "them and us" situation. For the most part I don't hate anybody, but when asking a straight forward question one is confronted by eons of text and quotes, it defeats the purpose of talking. I really don't care what anybody believes, but every religion claiming to have the right to infringe on other people's rights deserves to be scrutinized. One may argue that this is not the case with Christianity, but the most hard headed bigots I have ever come across belong to exactly that category. Then again you may say that those are not "true" Christians, and the whole discussion starts from 0 again.

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    Nia Lposted 14 years ago

    This will provide some answers hopefully. Check it out: <snipped - no links in the forums, please>

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