why are we as believers so hated?

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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
3 sheets to the wind.
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lynnechandlerposted 15 years ago
Just out of curiosity, what denomination are you AW?
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am non-denominational full gospel
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Fairbearposted 15 years ago
Atomswifey:

You asked why non-believers hate you. All I did was give you an honest answer based on your own post. You display an extremely offensive attitude, and that's what I pointed out to you. You can say I took it out of context all you want, but what I said is the truth about how you appear to other people. If you think you are taken the wrong way by people like me, then maybe you should re-evaluate how you present yourself, the words you use, the tone you take. It's not my fault that you come across the way you do. If you don't want to be hated, then change the way you conduct yourself. Don't get upset at others when your words and actions offend them. It's up to you -the offender - to rethink your approach.
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lrohnerposted 15 years ago
"Believing the world is full of sin and darkness" is one of the reasons why I don't believe the way you do. I was brought up with a mother who told me I would burn in hell for all eternity for lying about eating my broccoli or saying 'shut up'. That's not my God. Never was and never will be.

Give it up, Atomswifey. You're fighting a fight that obviously isn't about religion. I don't know what it's about, but it certainly isn't religion. In all due respect, you do have some issues, but I haven't a clue as to what they are. I certainly don't see your 'Christian' hubbers standing up to reinforce you, and that should tell you something. I actually do respect most all of them most all of the time. I wish I could say the same for you.
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  Jane@CMposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your mother too, huh?
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  lrohnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah. Staunchly Irish Catholic. They rival Jewish moms for guilt trips. Seriously.
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  Jane@CMposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  SHUT UP, my mom was Irish Catholic too! Oh and the nuns!
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  Crazdwriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was just reading and had to laugh I'm sorry Jane but you made me laugh by saying 'shut up'
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  lrohnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  NO WAY! Yeah. I was in Catholic schools from Kindergarten until college. And my Mom was a nun. Franciscan Third Order. It was started for folks who 'found their calling' at a time when they couldn't become full-time priests and nuns. Yup. Tons and tons of guilt.
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  Jane@CMposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I got lucky, didn't have to go to Catholic school.
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lynnechandlerposted 15 years ago
I am even more curious now.

I looked up the church here the closest one I could find to me that practices Non-denominational Full Gospel. I found it to be pastored by a man who professes to have been led to the Lord and sell his CPA firm to become a traveling minister. He never went to seminary school and that makes me question what right he has to lead the people under him to the Lord.

Even Jesus had people who counseled him.

There are many out there who will try to lead down the path of the righteous for their own selfish reasoning. I have seen this with my own eyes in my very own church.

Not everyone is going to believe the same thing nor should they. It is what makes us all unique and interesting to get to know.

Following this thread just reinforces the reasons why I would call myself non-denominational at the moment. There are too many who profess to know the answers but really don't and the lay of the land has become littered with false witnesses.
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Davinagirl3posted 15 years ago
I knew a minister, once, that was such a good man. He shined with the light of love. He always made people think, but he never judged anyone. I remember talking to him about my doubts about religion and he never once made me feel like I was strange, or a bad person. He was a true believer and I can't imagine anyone hating him. He was a true representative of his faith. Maybe, the question shouldn't be "why are believers so hated?". Maybe, the question should be "what's wrong with me?"
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Man messes everything up and then blames God for it. How rude is that?
  And How persumptuous it is, that we might think we know better than Him!
  
  So, forgive me, if that comes across as "angry". It is not meant to.
  
  I wrote that two months ago along with this
  
  The Holy Spirit inspired the word of God. It is written in the language of us all through that Spirit.
  
  Are you now going to Debate the validity of The Bible?
  
  This was the response I got to that question
  "Of course not. Who in their right mind would debate the validity of absolutely invalid piece of mistranslated text"?
  
  And this
  Your god does not love me without conditions, your god does not accept me for not accepting your god and your god most certainly has never brought peace into the world.
  
  To me your god is a liar. And although you think you "know" the "truth" and are saved by his holy blood thirstiness, but I don't like murderers, liars, frauds, fakes, phonies etc...
  
  My response:
  My God loves you DESPITE any conditions! My God ACCEPTS you just the way you are! And God is not the one who destroys peace in this world. Man is.
  
  Your perception of God has been diluted by this world. You have allowed your own obstinance to cloud your judgement. You hate, as the world hates. This is evident in the venom you used to describe Him.
  
  God is the exact polar opposite of the way you are now perceiving Him. God loves, yes. But He is JUST. Man will pay for his sinful nature and this is not something God really wants to do, but as a JUST God, He must do.
  
  I could go on and on but I will not just a few examples of me being "judgemental" there. LOL
  The main reason I started getting really targeted is because I started answering someone in here in scripture only.
  Everytime they would respond, I would simply quote scripture.
  
  That made a lot of people really angry with me on here. And thats ok.
  Let them stay mad or whatever.
  I believe if someone has that much hate and or distain for another person, they do not even really know there is really something wrong there and it is not on me!
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  really?
  
  hmm
  
  ever seen Moses with Charlton Heston? that scene where God delivers all those plagues and whatnot onto Egypt. killing innocent babies in the process? i guess you and i have a different definition of "just". i mean what did those babies ever do to anybody?
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're acting as if the Author of Life has no right to determine when and how a part of His creation dies.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  really?
  
  i don't think i am.
  
  i am questioning his behavior though. why did God give us the ability to reason and question if he doesn't want us to question what he does? God slaughtering innocent people is like us smashing ants...only these ants are ants we created in our own image and they pray to us...i don't know about you but i couldn't kill something i created just to put a fright on the survivors!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with Cosette. You can't claim an omnipresent god without seeing what a callous bastard he would be if he could stop the horrible death of little innocents but does not. I do not think many humans would even do that!
  
  You seem to have a god that is invisible, unavailable, uncaring who hates mankind totally!
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You also act as if physical death is the worst possible fate to befall a person. I had some pro-abortionists tell me, "You believe in Heaven, so we're doing each fetus a favor in sending it there!"
  
  Of course, they're wrong. The reason murder is prohibited is not so much because death is horrible as it is simply the right of no human being to decide to preemptively end another person's life. I believe the expression for that would be "playing God."
  
  And a God who hated humanity so totally would not sacrifice himself to save humanity from its own sin, but leave us all to fates worse than death.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And you are joining the Army shortly, right? Just out of curiosity, are you pro or against capital punishment?
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  "Don't kill your babies - Only I get to do that." said God. "Oh, and do as I say and not as I do, and stuff".
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're assuming that again, the creator of the universe doesn't have a right to determine when or how any aspect of his creation ends. That's like saying a writer has no right to kill off characters he or she's created and assuming he or she hates the characters that get killed off in the story.
  
  You are also assuming that God is not Supreme, but equal to us and therefore subject to the same rules.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Valerie, I actually kind of like you, and I respect you, especially the way you defend your position. i feel that we are not arguing for the sake of arguing, which is ok. i just had to say that.
  
  ok, i guess the reason i have always had problems understanding certain things like this in the Bible is because i am an empath - i have been this way all my life...i FEEL stuff...especially other people's pain. and so i could never reconicle these stories about God killing people because they disobeyed him, or so they would fear him. as a loving parent myself, my love for my son is unconditional, and he is the only person on Earth who i love that way. i would never say 'you'd better do what i say or you will be severely punished'. i also love my little bunny and i was just now petting her goodnight and feeding her hay and as i stroked her i thought how awful it would feel to watch her die, especially by my hand.
  
  i know we humans are not on the same plane as God and his ways are beyond our understanding. but there is no way the Bible can ever justify God's slaughtering of the innocents. or spiteful things like turning Sarah into a pillar of salt just because she disobeyed him.
  
  if God created us, we are REAL - not fictional characters in a book. if JK Rowling kills off Harry Potter, she will no doubt experience some strange sense of remorse because she created him, but he is not even real. we are real...we have real thoughts and real feelings and when we pray to God, those prayers are formulated in real minds, real souls and real, beating hearts, not letters on a piece of paper.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that I really really doubt
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love is not love when it is conditional on behaviour! "I will love you if" you are frightened of me, and obey me is not love at all.
  
  the painful and heart breaking death of innocent children and what happens to good people in a world that is bad, has never been explained, no matter how many times it is questioned.
  The answers are most unsatisfactory, and usually ridiculous.
  
  I do not always like the behaviour of my children, but I could never make my love conditional.
  It is only sane to hate behaviour, not people. The god of the bible is psychotic. The bible is not about love, but fear and loathing.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's an interesting one. There's a quote "Do as the devil does not as the devil says." Is this the same thing here? Maybe there is context to that quote.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have to see the movie LOL
  I have the script.
  And did you see where Pharoah was told by God to "let my people go?" And how many times did God have to say it and how many babies were killed?
  Guess Pharoah should have done what God wanted huh?
  Ya think?
  So who is to blame in that story?
  Uhm my guess would be pharoah!
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that's like saying America should do what Osama Bin Laden wants us to do or else, and we have only ourselves to blame. it is terrorism, pure and simple. i'm sorry but that is how i see it.
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rmcrayneposted 15 years ago
AW SAID:
I mean ok its like this,
I quote scripture that steps on toes. It is that scripture that steps on those toes.
My delivery of it was simply to post it.

---------------------

AW I could be totally wrong, but I'm thinking most people are scrolling through your scripture without reading it, therefore no toes stepped on. I think it's the condescending and superior attitude in your subsequent remarks that offend.

Are you misunderstood, or taken out of context? I think that most can't be bothered to muddle through 5 to 10 to 15 screens of your posts to find any new revelations. Spot reading seems to suggest the gestalt never changes. It gets mindblowingly monotonous. Again, maybe it's just me.

Fellow posters, lots of great, well tempered stuff on the thread.

Peace.
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My Dear it is not just you, I also agree.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Not much hate coming from others. You are the master of it with your hateful quotes from a dead book!
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Calling anyone's sacred scriptures a "dead book" doesn't exactly come across as loving or even tolerant.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Tolerant? There is nothing tolerant about people ramming hate filled scripture down other peoples throats, then claiming a lack of tolerance.
  How about I start a thread about how intolerant it is to tell people that if they do not believe a book is true they are all going to hell?
  I believe the book discredits itself.
  I will not respond to the hate by believing in it.
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Len Cannonposted 15 years ago
No one has suffered in America as much as the white conservative Christian. I often sit and wonder where our government was for these rare and precious creatures, oft put upon by the crushing tyranny of the secular crowds and humanist nonbelievers.

GOD BLESS THE ORIGINAL POSTER FOR TELLING IT LIKE IT IS. I hope in the future our government will do more to protect minorities like Christians instead of homosinners and atheists.
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my goodness do I detect judgement upon others? You consider Christians a minority? Is that because now the Muslim religion has outgrown Christianity? We in America are not the only religion therefore all people should be protected only God can judge when we die , we need to look out ourselves before judging others.
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  rmcrayneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is Christianity now number 4 or 5 on the globe?
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You really are a scary redneck Eh?
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I detect some hate there possibly a skinhead or supremist weak very weak bless his little heart he does still have a lot to learn.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh Len, I'm actually shocked to know that you are a homophobe, and am having a hard time figuring out why you wrote such a neutral hub about Marvel Comics Homosexual heros. I mean, you wrote very dispassionately and informatively. Or could it be that you have a double standard? Not sure, and not important.
  
  What you write here in this thread pretty much nullifies whatever motives you had in writing such a threa (for me).
  
  Just one other point: I don't think white Christians are the minority in America. I think most white Christians became dissallusioned with their faith, and are pretty neutral about what religion they embrace, but still believe in God. If so, that would mean that the majority of Americans, regardless of ethnicity, are believers. White Christians, on the whole, are perfectly FINE with believers of any ethnicity.
  
  Your comments are more revealing about you than anything.
  
  Be well and be at peace, if possible.
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
lol @ "homosinners"
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years ago
Your god says, "Accept me, or I'll burn you in Hell for all eternity, and I will torture you, and you shall never die, but shall wish for death."

This sounds worse than Hitler, and we called Hitler a monster.

I follow the Godhead who says, "We will have all to be saved, but each in their own turn. We will save ALL, and EVERY man, but many we will have to lovingly chastise. We do not torture non-believers just for kicks and giggles. Our discipline, our chastisements have a purpose, and that is to reconcile ALL to us."

A strong part of me really wants to believe this is satire, because there is so much wrong with it.

I mean last I checked.

The suffering of a white conservative Christian being told to piss off <<<<<<<<<<< A homeless family, who has money, no food, because they were struck with a hardship, and the W.C.C. told them to piss off, "You're homeless, because you made God angry! Now go away!"
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Len Cannonposted 15 years ago
I think decades of American history have proven time after time and year after year that followers of the Lord's word have been set upon by packs of wolves at every step. Why, today it seems impossible for an American politician to even get elected if they so much as espouse simple Christian beliefs such as requiring the death penalty for those who commit acts of witchcraft.

Every day I see it more and more as well. Although Christians might not be the majority in America, we still hold some power! By banding together in small communities, we have been able to maintain our culture and way of life, even in the face of the oppressive majority. Here in New York, the Christian neighborhoods are a (pardon the phrase) mecca to those who seek refuge from a nation that does nothing but discourage Christianity in all its forms.

I'm sorry my TRUTHBOMBS are too much for you to handle. Maybe someday you'll understand what it is like to be oppressed like the greatest victims in American history: White people who believe in Jesus.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Fix'd.
  
  Unfortunately, Les is the perfect example of a modern day Pharisee. He's probably one of those "Christians" who stands in front of a poor colored family, and shouts "THANK YOU, JESUS FOR NOT MAKING ME LIKE THEM!"
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think Les is any such thing, but is making fun of Atomswifey. Because if he really were that racist, he wouldn't need to worry much about Hell in the afterlife, as I'd be too tempted to give him some in this life!
  
  Word to the wise- no real Christian believes that Jesus was a white man or thinks his skin color is important.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  What you have said is patently untrue. The opposite is the truth. Try to get a government position without being a god botherer in the USA and you have no hope!
  Name a non religious politician? The bible-bashers run America, and the rest of the world knows it!
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Valerie Fposted 15 years ago
Les, I'll ask you this nicely. Please stop before people start to think you're either serious, take you for a representative real Christians, or before anyone like me thinks you're making backdoor accusations of racism and such against Atomswifey and proving her point for her.
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  Len Cannonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Les is an offensive term and I am hurt to the core. But I believe history will prove Atomswifey's point correct with or without my meager input.
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Daniel Carterposted 15 years ago
Ahhhhh, perhaps you jest, Les.
A mockery about atomswifey????

Hmmmmm, not very nice either way, is it.

Still revealing much about you, rather than about others.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ooops!!! My bad, LEN.
  Freudian slip, no doubt.
  
  Regardless, good hub about marvel comics.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years ago
After looking at Len's hubpage I have to say all he says is satire. I mean, just look at his front page!

Well done!
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Len Cannonposted 15 years ago
serious post to calm the tides for a moment: if you can't tell the difference between my absurdities and the views presented by the OP, then perhaps you have become too indoctrinated to majorities with all the power presenting themselves as put-upon minorities wilting under a system that goes out of its way to support and encourage your way of life at every step.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it was satire. Still, making fun of Atomswifey like that will only prove her point.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi valerie!
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  Len Cannonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She's written volumes about how she has suffered due to her beliefs while the reality is the vast majority of the country is on her side. I'm sure she might find it difficult to be disagreed with by a few liberal internet geeks but at the end of the day she'll go out and receive (metaphorical and perhaps even literal) high fives for her faith while people with values and beliefs that are actually oppressed will continue to suffer from prejudice.
  
  America is more likely to elect a gay president than an atheist president. Parents don't trust their children with non-Christian teachers. The entire martyr complex is silly and myopic.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
And this "story?"

Later on God tested Abraham's faith and obedience. "Abraham!" God called." Yes," he replied. "Here I am." "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-2 NLT)
Here are some instructions on the best way to keep faith!

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence rely not. (Proverbs 3:5 NAB)

But of course you would reckon that's a good thing!
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes He did do that didn't He?
  Oh wow and to think in that very sacrifice (Isaac) which did not happen, we learn about How God loved us so much He did that very thing with His own son for YOU!
  How ironic.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years ago
Is it just me or does it appears that atomswifey loves to dance around the issue?
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
That your god would be so neurotic as to say such a thing is dumbfounding! The only thing more dumbfounding is that you believe it is OK!

Sick little neurotic god.

The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God. (Psalms 78:31-34 NLT)
This method should work to "convert Believers!

What a dill you would need to be to buy this tripe.
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getitriteposted 15 years ago
Wow!!! Religion is a very potent form of brainwashing. Just reading these responses, I can think of no other reason one could still support these absurd views--after TOTALLY losing every debate. Sad. It's a cult.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years ago
Neither of them are to blame. God may have told Pharoah to let his people go, but he also hardened his heart. Pharoah is not to blame, because his heart was hardened; but neither is God to blame, because he was using Pharoah for His divine will.

Romans 9: 13-23

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
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atomswifeyposted 15 years ago
cosette : that's like saying America should do what Osama Bin laden wants us to do or else, and we have only ourselves to blame. it is terrorism, pure and simple. i'm sorry but that is how i see it.

Osama Bin Laden is not God nor is God Osama Bin Laden
The Osama Bin Laden in this story was Pharoah.
He had captured Gods people, keeping them as his slaves.

God gave Pharoah many chances to do what He asked. Time and time again Pharoah refused.
With each plague becoming more worse in nature then the next. And Pharoah still refused.
Gods people were protected from it all as an example of Gods commitement to them and resolve to have them freed.

Let me ask you this,
If you were held captive by Osama Bin Laden and were then tortured and kept as a slave, would you not want the U.S. to tell him to release you? and if he refused, would you not hope for and want the U.S. to do everything in its power to see to it you were released?

The same was true for God in that story. His people were crying out for their freedom to Him and He answered and they were set free.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oops, I was wrong - The film was called The Ten Commandments, not "Moses".
  
  but why go about it in such a long, complicated way? if I were God, I would have drawn a line around the perimeter of Egypt with my finger, which would then become a chasm as deep as the Grand Canyon, then caused all of my people to be lifted into the air and deposited into a beautiful green park with plenty of food and water.
  
  these stories are designed to instill fear into people so they will not stray from the flock.
  
  to answer your quesion re: Bin Laden - of course I would want my government to work for my release but if that meant that innocents would die as a result of collateral damage, i would just as soon grab one of the guard's guns and shoot myself, as i would not want that on my conscience. and there probably would be collateral damage because we are imperfect and can only use what is within our power as imperfect humans. God is perfect and all-powerul and can do anything with the flick of his little finger, so he should be able to find a way to free a person without anyone else getting hurt. drawing that line around Egypt and then making it a mile-deep chasm filled with water or even lava would certainly do the trick.
  
  you say God doesn't interfere in human affairs so why then for these people and why not for other people who have it far worse than they did?
  
  i just don't get it.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say He doesn't interfere in human affairs. That is a misconception about free will. God is not going to make us love Him in other words. It is our choice.
  
  But there are plenty of cases/stories where God has in fact, intervened.
  God did and does things in this manner I believe to demonstrate His power as well as and this very important to demonstrate how far man is willing to go to disobey Him, not trust Him, not love Him, deny Him.
  with that said, there are also a great many stories where God did not demonstrate those kinds of things in that manner and still reacted in very miraculous ways as you mentioned there.
  I think picking up someone and placing them somewhere else is a great miracle don't you? And yet if you read the scriptures you see where God performed a great many miracles and people still refused to believe, still refused to love, and still denied and betrayed Him.
  
  Pharoah was guilty of thinking his gods were greater than THE GOD. God was just showing him how very wrong he was. And illustrating how defiant someone can be. Even when faced with destruction.
  Hmmm, sounds familiar.
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lynnechandlerposted 15 years ago
Interesting thing here is the OP is a follower of non-denominational full gospel and while I understand that you don't have to have a degree in theology to become a pastor of one of these said churches, you only have to have a bachelor's degree in something and have a pastoral heart, isn't this what people refer to when they say someone has a God complex?

Let's take an extreme example here -- Charles Manson had a cult following before he was put in jail, while in jail he ends up earning a bachelors degree in something and applies to the committee for non denominational churches to start up his own church when he is released from prison. It could happen based on what their requirements are. It is an extreme example only and I know it isn't going to happen,but...

Wasn't the pastor of the church in AZ that made the news with the child brides non-denominational? What was his background? Why would people so devote to him?

I'm trying to understand where the original OP feels that she is an authority to tell what is right and wrong while using the quotes from the bible. Just really trying to make sense of all this, so if someone who isn't bashing the OP or whatever here could give me a clear idea of how a non-denominational church works, it would be appreciated. Because right now what I am seeing from the research I have done tonight is that we have a wolf in lambs clothing leading people.
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atomswifeyposted 15 years ago
earnest : Love is never love when it is conditional on behaviour! "I will love you if you are frightened of me, and obey me is not love.

I do not always like the behaviour of my children, but I could never make my love conditional.
It is only sane to hate behaviour, not people. The god of the bible is psychotic. The bible is not about love, but fear and loathing.

Gods love is not conditionally based.
He loves you regardless of behaviour or sin.
It is we who choose to seperate ourselves from Gods love earnest.
If we then make that choice, we choose then to accept the consequences of it.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not conditional! It is all about conditional.
  
  The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God. (Psalms 78:31-34 NLT)
  
  Guess I better believe or die!
  What a nonsense!
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keaposted 15 years ago
You're not hated, but those that do not beleive the same as you should be respected as well - not judged.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I wish it was a wolf in sheep's clothing. A wolf would at least be forced by it's nature to do what one would expect and so it's actions would be a lot more logical.
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DRG Da Real Grincposted 15 years ago
What is it that you believe in? As a Christian, do you have any faith in science?
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years ago
Nobody in their right mind says, "You know, I really really really hate God, and I want to go to Hell."

And nobody comes to Jesus except those called by the Father. Nobody has the natural desire to know the Godhead (God the Father, and God the Son - Jesus Christ.) It is only through God's faith, and grace that we are saved.

God calls us we respond. It is not the way you perceive it; We call God and He responds.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This god you mean?
  
  "The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
  
  What a hate filled book this is!
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whichever you believe. I'm not going to try and save you, because I can't; only God can, and He'll do it when He wills it.
  
  Ezekiel 16:44-55 44Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying, As is the mother, so is her daughter.
  
  45Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.
  
  46And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.
  
  47Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.
  
  48As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
  
  49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
  
  50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
  
  51Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.
  
  52Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.
  
  53When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
  
  54That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.
  
  55When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
  
  This is the same God who 'hated' Sodom so much that He destroyed it, but through His prophet, Ezekiel, He says that he will restore Sodom to her former estate.
  
  Make of that what you will.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What I make of it is that it is a pile of old cobblers!
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And there's nothing I can do about it!
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Valerie Fposted 15 years ago
Earnest, you're acting like God is being a petty child withholding affection from perfectly innocent people who've done no wrong. In the very passage you cite, however, it makes it pretty clear that the people have done evil. Furthermore, either you're quoting a bad translation or you're misquoting it, and you conveniently leave out Hosea 9:10 which says flat-out that the people of Israel, Ephraim in particular, abandoned God rather than the other way around.

In fact, a lot of Hosea is devoted to comparing those faithless to God to unfaithful spouses. What's the sensible thing to do for one who insists on abandoning you for another?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here we go with the "done evil" and "without faith" again. Like many religionists, you are having to "fit" every statement from the bible to an interpretation, where your gods behaviour was correct or justified. Nothing makes hate right in my view.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
God had his chance, for gods sake! I spent years as a Christian, a deeply involved one at that.

Say what you will, you can never explain away the hate the bible and quoran spew.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who was that aimed at? Because I just said I wasn't going to do anything, and for some reason you still seem pissed off.
  
  Look, you're an atheist, or whatever it is that you are. That's fine with me, I'm not going to convert you.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No Sanctus, I am not pissed off, just impatient with the constant tone of this forum. I thought you were on the same train. Sorry if you really meant what you said. but here that would be unusual.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I might be on the same train in that I don't care for certain people's "Believe in God! Believe in God! Believe in God! You'll burn in Hell! If I tell you to believe in God long enough you'll convert." attitude; but I am a believer, and that's not going to change.
  
  Moving on now.
  
  Here's a nice little twist, and this really only applies if you're a Christian. Try to remember a time that another Christian screamed a bunch of obscenities at you, called you names, and said that they hoped you burned in Hell.
  
  That's real hate right there. Simple disagreement is not hate.
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Ghost32posted 15 years ago
I've never understood why believers were hated by unbelievers OR why unbelievers were hated by believers (and it does seem to cut both ways with a lot of folks despite the fancy semantics). Quite frankly, the thing that puzzles me most is how anyone can judge belief over action. You can believe God resides in Satan's left horn for all I care, as long as your actions say good things about you. On the other hand, you can believe in the Savior of the Day to your heart's content without impressing me in the slightest if your behavior is that of, say, a devout serial killer.

Summary: Don't care one whit what you believe or disbelieve. Might care considerably what you do...if it happens to be my ox getting gored at any given moment.
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frogdroppingposted 15 years ago
why are we as believers so hated?

You're not. Some people disagree with you. That's not the same as hate.

Those that don't believe fall back on rhetoric and so on, in order to oppose your beliefs.

You fall back on (largely) bible scripture in order to oppose their beliefs.

You're all rowing, not hating
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  frogdroppingposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey earnest
  
  Fight the good fight and all that. But no hating remember ... you're disagreeing
  
  I think we need a lesson on word definitions huh?!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I do not hate non believers, I hate the crap they sell.
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DennisBarkerposted 15 years ago
I come back to my original point, that evangelical christianity spreads itself by promising rewards in the future if you spread the word now in much the same way as network marketing does.

I'm not sure what the points system and hierarchy of badges is with any one branch but I would suggest adopting a selection of birds or animals as badges for beginners rising through the ranks beginning maybe with sparrow or wren and rising to eagle, oops that came from celtic paganism so maybe not, but you get the idea, pick your own status hierarchy symbols, maybe start as alterboy or lay preacher and rising up to bishop or pope.

Do evangelical christians accept the earthly authority of the pope?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hell Nooooooo....
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Pearldiverposted 15 years ago
Why are you guys feeding this madness?
It is far more productive feeding the insecurity!
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Lisa HWposted 15 years ago
Amanda, that's for sure.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
What a pile!
Evidently your omnipotent god hates all the children born in certain countries allowing them to starve to a horrible anguish filled death, while he loves you and your friends, and finds their car keys! You are a true loony!
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, the ad hominem attacks and attempts at a rather unclinical psychiatric diagnosis of someone you don't even know doesn't exactly reflect very well on the intelligence I know you have.
  
  What do you do to feed the hungry? Do you make the crops grow? Do you make the rain come in due season? Do you command (as the Bible has done repeatedly) that people feed the poor? Or do you sit around and blame God when it's human politics that has historically caused the worst suffering as a result of famine?
  
  God doesn't hate the starving. If He did, he wouldn't have commanded us so frequently to care for them and feed them.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  We are talking real living children here, so yes I do find the quotes loony. In a childrens cancer ward, you tell me why god decided to bring that 3 year old "home"
  Explain to mom and dad that it's gods will I suppose.
  You cannot claim bits of the bible and then imply the rest is some sort of moral truth. No sale.
  What is love?
  As an omnipotent god, of course you would make it rain, but most importantly you would have the sanity to not create life to then allow it to be wantonly destroyed.
  
  The bible based negative arguments about how positive suffering is will not pass scrutiny either. We do not need masses of psychological pain or any other pain.
  
  Telling me that I am not using the intelligence you know I have is what it is. I prefer to be more direct. The poster is without true feelings for other than her own ego and as a consequence I say loony.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you blame God because humanity's not a perfect race of mindless automatons incapable of choosing wanton destruction???
  
  And what are you doing for the kids with cancer other than exploiting their pain to "prove" that if God exists, he must be some kind of monster? Is the person who exploits such suffering to show how right he is any better?
  
  I repeat. If you have any real feeling, what are you doing to help? Blaming a God you don't even believe exists for suffering you make no effort to alleviate yourself isn't very helpful. And it comes across as crass to me, but I'll cut you some slack. You didn't know I had an 8 year old cousin die recently of cancer, or that his faith in some God you claim is some imaginary monster helped keep him in good spirits a lot more than casting blame ever did.
  
  But please don't talk to me about "real people," when you don't know how close to home these things hit.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Valerie,
  
  I have related my own experience with cancer elsewhere, and I deplore your suggestion that I do nothing to help as it is a lie.
  You should realize we have all lost loved ones in terrible ways, and you have done what you accuse me of in making it personal with mentioning your cousin.
  
  I do not blame a god that does not exist, it is disingenuous of you to say so. I am pointing out the absurdity of believing in an omnipotent god who can find the car keys, answers prays willy nilly but can't save the children of the world from suffering.
  
  The argument you offer is the freewill one.
  Don't get me started!
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David Bowmanposted 15 years ago
I, a non-believer, certainly don't hate believers. If I did, that would mean I hated my parents, grandparents, sister and most all of my relatives and friends. I certainly don't hate my family or friends. I was once a believer, so I know the type of thinking that is a consequence of the belief. If you want to know what all the vitriol directed at believers from non-believers is all about, here is why:

Some believers claim that they know the minds of non-believers. They think they can play armchair psychiatrist and psycho-analyze us. They claim that non-believers are angry at god because of some misfortune suffered in their lives or because they want to live decadent lifestyles without being accountable for their actions. They claim that we really believe the same thing they do but just pretend not to. They say that we have no good reason not to believe what they do, because, after all, the truth is so obvious that only a fool would deny it. They claim that our "true" intentions are to corrupt as many people as possible because we are under the influence of Satan.

When we respond with reasoned arguments, these are often rebuffed with scripture, more scripture, fuzzy logic and accusations followed by threats of eternal damnation.

I'm not saying that all believers practice this type of approach. There are some believers on this site who have my deepest respect. I have had some constructive dialogue with a few of them. It's the zealots who couldn't have a reasonable conversation to save their lives that get under our skin.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  You have spoken for me as well. Nothing to add.
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rmcrayneposted 15 years ago
Very well said David Bowman.
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  Amanda Severnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I completely agree. Religionists seem to praise God for everything that's beautiful and wonderful (whether or not it's man-made, after all, man is God's creation, therefore man's inspiration and creativity comes from God), but blame man for everything that goes wrong on the other hand! Sometimes life's unkind, and for those on the sticky end of that it can be very hard to get caught in the middle of all this polarised thinking.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
You suffer so much for your god!
You're a fraud lady.
Before you start shouting hate, I do not do personal hate at all in any shape or form and would not give it energy.
I hate the lies you try to sell and the way you try to sell through your self delusion.
There is a good old saying or two that would be good for you to understand.
"Thou protesteth too much" comes to mind, as does, "Say what you will, you can but say what you are" and "What you think about me is none of my business."
If you were not so obviously scared and filled with the hate you spew, you would see it for what it is.

No chance of that in my lifetime.
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steffsingsposted 15 years ago
Just my own opinions from one truly inspired "religionist" (don't you love that term ;-)...

FIRST: There's nothing worse than something/someone who makes you question your own existence, purpose, or right to walk amongst the rest of the living.

SECOND: Our evidence, wisdom, proof is soooooo unbelievably FOOLISH that it defies NATURAL logic. There's the real problem - it can't be figured out by natural means.(1 Corinthians 2: 1-5)

LASTLY: (speaking as some do) I shook my fist at God, I said I don't believe in You, He didn't care to answer my challenge. I ignored Him, I cursed His Name, He didn't SEEM to flinch or even punish me, I went around telling everybody "see no response He's not there...no hail storm or rain of fire down on my tiny skull, so.... GOD must Not exist since He won't bow down to me and FIGHT ME LIKE A MAN"?

Instead I'll engage His followers who I can egg into a fight (they'll never shake the dust off their shoes) many of them are easily frustrated and not as self assured... sooo THE FIGHT CONTINUES (Not evangelism - I said Fight!) & the hatred it helps to create as well.
Plus - it's promised - don't forget that! (John 15:18-19)
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In light of recent forum nastinrss, I will understand if you take offense at my question. But it is an honest question. I mean no offense.
  How do you explain hail storms and rain, fire and brimstone, down on the tiny heads of people who never questioned? People who believed, did all that was asked, tried as hard as they could...and got nothing? (Please dont cite Job. Its not the same now, and you know it. The devil doesn't get to wander in and out of heaven, he had his chance to prove his point.)
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  steffsingsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone gets rain at times Matthew 5:45 - No one is completely exempt. And as an example (only an example) I'm making a pot on a pottery wheel - if the pot says - don't want my handle there, I want it on the bottom - 'sorry this is where the handle will be' because there is a Purpose. You can email me if you like - as I don't mind honest questions.
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, thanks. I will need a minute or so to gather my thoughts into a legiable question. The pottery thing, I umderstand. But it had nothing to do with my question....I am just gonna bow outta here, before stuff gets ugly, and work on presenting my questions to you, in a way that makes sense. Have a good weekend...
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  steffsingsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You too have a beautiful weekend... Can't wait to hear from ya..
  
  (pottery metaphor) = speaks to the question: why some get rain -because that's how HE chose to do it (or make the pot)- there are many free choices left to us, however the Creator of the pot had some choices to make too - long ago - where does the handle go (i.e. the rain that falls etc...)
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OH!!!! see, there was just a huge example, to me, of the probelm. I was raised with a COMPLETLY different interptitation of that, never even considered that one..but both make sense. Hmmm....thanks again!!
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atomswifeyposted 15 years ago
earnest:
"I do not do personal hate at all in any shape or form and would not give it energy.
I hate the lies you try to sell and the way you try to sell through your self delusion"
=============================================================
contradiction there from one sentence directly into the other don't ya think?
You hate the "lies" that I "sell"
Have you proven anything that I have stated to be a lie to subsequently, hate it?
And
"the way I try to "sell" through my what? Self delusion"?
Those are your opinions earnest. And because of your opinions you what in your own words there:
hate.
My point exactly.

You do not have to kill someday to hate them. Hate comes in a variety of flavors.

I am not saying you hate me personally earnest, I know you cannot possibly because you do not know me personally to make that sort of judgement call. But you do hate what I represent by the choice of your own words there.

You hate how I then present the Bible? Or is it that you hate the Bible? So anyone who cites it is a irrational, idiot who lies and so on?
Those are just some of the adjectives you have used against me. And why? Because I quoted scripture or shared my beliefs with you. However I stated them.
It is your choice to hate, regardless of how someone presents their beliefs to you or anyone else for that matter.
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  he never said he hated YOU.
  Your question, I think, was .."why do people hate me, for my beliefs?"
  So far, I have seen a lot of responses,on a lot of threads... stating they do not hate YOU.
  Many people do not belive the same as you. Think of how strongly you feel about your beliefs.
  Everybody else feels just as strongly as you do. And will defend it as such.
  You are sating you have the right to state your beliefs in any manner you wish, up there.
  Well, everyone else has that right, as well.
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habeeposted 15 years ago
As I have stated before, I am a Christian, but I try to "preach" through deeds instead of by words. I endeavor to be a good example for my children and grandchildren by the way I live my life. IF someone asks me about my faith, I am happy to share it. And as I've also stated on another forum, a big part of my Christianity is all about tolerance and acceptance.

I like to picture God with his arms wide open, in a welcoming gesture, instead of with his arms crossed and a disapproving scowl on his face.
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Dale Nelsonposted 15 years ago
Faith is just that which it is.There will always be the scientific side of the coin and the faith side of the coin.You cannot define a believer and attach religion without debate.Belief is faith.Fact is scientific.

So in answer to your question, it is not hatred but disbelief in unproven fact in a scientific thought pattern. So if you want to quote scripture in your belief, understand that what you believe through faith is not necessarily the belief of the majority, minority or any general consensus of humanity.

Can you possibly map out the entire history of humanity in a book.So this is what frustrates non believers(as you call them) in that you are not open to other opinion and debate.
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Just to adjust the balance a bit God said he was more interested in whats in our 'hearts' than whats in our heads..

To select /copy/and or quote scripture after scripture impresses Him not( not anyone else for that matter) ,even the devil did that, so sorry Atomswifey while you like to choose scripture to promote your own self righteousness (which means ,being right with God) you might want to humble yourself and learn to be a servant instant of a dictator, on here and in real life.

If Im asked I will quote Gods word , but if I know they are not interested I will respect them and refrain.

And when you accuse me of hiding behind my unbelieving friends , you lie ,I know then for a fact you do not stand for Christ, for only the enemy would taunt and accuse.
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Pr0metheusposted 15 years ago
Believe what you want, the problem is most believers try to push their religion onto other people. "You'll go to hell if you don't believe in god the way I do." (Notice I said the way I do - everyone who believes in a higher power believes in the same god, in a different way) There are many paths to the top of the mountain, forcing people to take yours is stupid. Also, many believers take the words of jesus and distort them to fit their own agenda. Take the crusades for example, how did 'turn the other cheek' turn into 'kill all arabs'? Same thing with islam, Muhammad never preached violence, in fact he preached the exact same things as Jesus, but it was some how translated into 'Jihad'. The problem isn't belief, it's religion. I'm spiritual myself. I believe in a higher power (although it's probably much different from your belief), but I believe religion is not the best way to the top of the mountain.

"God created spirituality, Satan organized it and called it religion."

P.S. In my opinion religion is just an outdated form of government.
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  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats the misconception there though. That I or we are "forcing" anyone to take anything.
  If the scripture which it does say that, says that then it is it that convicts there. it is Gods word that judges, He is the judge.
  Not Me not anyone else.
  You do not have to accept this. Or any of Gods word for that matter.
  It is completely up to you.
  
  When scripture like those that talk about the consequences of disbelief and sin are quoted it can make some people a bit uncomfortable or even down right angry.
  And why is that if they do not believe it anyway?
  Just move on and read on if you do not like what the SCRIPTURE is saying.
  
  It is very simple isn't it? If you do not adopt what we believe, then fine, ok move on.
  But if there are questions, doubts as there usually are in these cases, then seek and you will find.
  
  Is it that bizarre to find christians talking about God in a Christian forum?
  Is it unreasonable to find believers answering and responding to forum thread topics like "Christianity, people don't send themselves to Hell, God does!"?
  Of course we are going to respond and even debate in those instances right?
  Then why after we do is it, that we are accused of ramming doctrine down throats?
  We interject our own beliefs in those subjects and quote scripture to back them.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I saw this post ont he main page and just thought I'd offer my 2 cents. So, throw the comments about the Christianity forum aside, they don't hold bearing against me. I also would also ask that you do not quote scripture in your responses to me. This argument takes hold on the opposite side of religion from scripture. If you are going to quote scripture, take some time to read the response, and actually respond to the comments.
  
  That's great that YOU do not push your religion onto other people, but the majority of religious people do. Half of my family is extremely religious, so I feel I have the right to say that. Many things in the bible have the right idea, but when filtered through human consciousness it is often distorted into a convoluted hypocrisy of the original message.
  
  So, take my words as they are - RELIGION IS A DISTORTED FORM OF SCRIPTURE. Do not argue scripture, argue the unrighteous use of religion to start wars, kill people (witch hunts), and in general use scripture exactly opposite of how it was meant to be used.
  
  That is why people don't like religious fanatics.
  
  Spirituality on the other hand is exactly opposite. It allows people to get in touch with their god without constraining to the beliefs of one religion. This is where I stand. Christianity doesn't work for me. Do I still have questions? Yes, but a Christian priest can't answer them for me. I have to meditate and look inside myself to find MY answers.
  
  Personally, I like to pick the best parts of each religion and believe them.
  
  "God created spirituality, Satan organized it and called it religion."
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think I might love you.....
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, sorry I'm taken :-P
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats ok. My husband would be mad if I ran off with an internet person. But honestly, you perfectly put what I have been trying to say for ages!! And it didnt come off nasty at all.
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  no on is FORCING you to take anything either.
  accept it or not
  your choice
  You do not have to accept my rejection of certain religions.
  You come to the religous forums, with as much free will as anyone else. You can leave jsut as easily too.
  ( btw I have also seen you on other non-religous threads, quoting scripture.)
  RELIGIOUS means, discussing things of a religous nature. In no way is the thread...the "let's support christianity" thread. Ther is, surprisingly, more then one religion...oh yeah..is this new..there seems to be alot more sub topics recently?
  ANYWAY
  You state your views, you must be willing to accept the fact that others will too. They might dissagree with yours.
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  61
  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I completely accept that. Never have said to the contrary of that.
  If I am lying, then one, anyone here point to an instance when I have said for anyone not to post here. Anyone? ? ?
  I may disagree and point scripture to the contrary of their own beliefs or lack there of, but I have never told anyone they are stupid or a fruitcake or a nutjob or anything like that to drive my beliefs.
  Neither have I insulted them in posting a thread topic to get them to leave hubpages etc. as was done to me.
  
  I have my opinions to matters here, true. And no matter how I have chosen to express them since it has never been done in a hateful manner should one or more then hate me for them. But they do. I.E. I would not count someone as liking me very much when they call me names and insult my God.
  I have not insulted anyones beliefs or lack of beliefs. I qoute scripture and write what I believe to be the truth.
  If someone takes offense to what I write then fine, ok. I can respect that.
  But when people take offense to Gods Word, then who is the offense blamed on?
  Gods Word for speaking truth or the one who interprets it?
  I dont know I just quote it as I am instructed to do and then whatever happens, happens.
  
  In this case, I am judged and accused of being "a hateful, Bible Thumper spreading her Bible garbage all over the religion forum!"
  lol
  
  God bless you all too
  reply report
  70
  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  60
  Davinagirl3posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have the right to believe what you want. You have the right to express your beliefs. What I would like to understand is the way you express them. You post threads, like this one, with the expectation that people will automatically be against you. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you may have had a lot of instances in your life in which you have had to argue about what you believe. If this is true, then it will be a little easier to see where you are coming from.
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  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  sorry, I dont remember anyone said you lied...but then again, I dont read all of this. I was only talking about the "hating" part..
  
  you already said, basically "all men will hate you because of me." Mt 10:22..for starters.. if you belive this..why are you still going on about it...GOD said it would happen, its not our fault, the Devil blinded us...
  scriptures aside, I would be mad if I got called names too. Honest.
  
  yes. whatever happens happnes. But your still going on about it...
  
  do you truly not see the passive agressivness in the final..god bless you and the fake smiley?
  really?
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  61
  atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wrote you in an email rednck per your request
  in the most loving way,
  really in all seriousness
  reply report
  0
  rednckwmnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  awesome, I am off to check. might take a minute, cuz sometimes they stick it in my spam. forums stink..it always comes off wrong...
  Im nearing the end of my day, if you dont hear from me, check again on tuesday. ok? have a good weekend.
  reply report
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
I am an individual , so try not to stereotype everyone into the same boat.

Ive met all kinds of people from different walks of life ,some are idiots and some are fantastic but neither group use their beliefs or unbelief as a crutch or wall to hide behind.
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Wouldnt be bizarre if the Christians you speak of were like Christ , but who are they ,most people dont see them ,because they are not Christlike

You figure it out ,cuz youre the only one not getting it !
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Pr0metheusposted 15 years ago
Well stop quoting scriptures on other forms then. That's great that scripture is an ultimate truth to you, but it isn't to many people. They will take offense to you using your religious quotes as a backbone for an argument.
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1. 70
  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for stating this.
  reply report
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Jane@CMposted 15 years ago
"why are we as believers so hated"

You still didn't answer the question & you are still using the word "we".

I'm a believer & I'll state once again, I don't know of anyone who hates me.
reply report

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why are we as believers so hated?

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