I log on every day, and it seems that I always find negative things popping up in the forums. I am sorry that so many people are struggling on HubPages. From SEO issues to having popular hubs unfeatured for a multitude of reasons, it seems very discouraging for any newcomers.
When I first got here a little over a year ago, there was so much encouragement and positivity going around. Now, it seems to be filled with negativity and bad news - not that it's necessarily the fault of the hubbers. It seems like there's a lot of bad luck going around.
I'm hoping to provide a little bit of positivity and light for new (and even old) HubPages members. I started writing last December, and had about 20-30 hubs and AdSense by March. Now, I don't make much through AdSense. In fact, I've never gotten a payout. But the HubPages ad program and Amazon have been good to me - and I'm making a good amount of money to pay rent from that.
Although some have been talking about less traffic to hubs, mine has been steady. My most popular hub has 150,000 views, the majority of which have come through Google. When I first started here, I was writing 2-3 hubs per week. Now, it's dwindled to 2-3 a month.
I share my hubs on Facebook and Pinterest, which has proven to be a great source of traffic for me. I try to write on topics I find myself looking up - things that I know many girls my age are looking up: fashion, beauty, and DIY topics. I find that a lot of people want to learn HOW to do something, so they consult the internet. If you write on how to do things, you may find more traffic coming to your pages.
Work hard, write often, and keep your heads up. You can succeed on HubPages. If you're a hubber with some good news, post it below! Pat yourself on the back! Hopefully it can provide some inspiration for the others on here.
Thanks for sharing your story, abm! It's great to hear about new Hubbers becoming successful, and yes, it certainly is still possible.
Normally, I don't visit forums because they tend to be so negative. I stay away from negativity as much as I possibly can, so it was a joy to read your post.
I am happy here at HubPages. This is a company that is extremely transparent. I value that more than anything. I take personal responsibility for my own success. The more effort I put into writing and promoting my hubs, the better the results.
Thank you for generating a positive forum. It is a very nice change of pace.
Well done! I like this positive inspiring forum thread. It seems that I have read a lot of negative forums these past few days.
Thank you for your encouragement. I have only been on HP for a couple of weeks. I have a lot to talk about, but haven't written anything yet....Maybe I have the first hub jitters ha ha
I really like your positive attitude. I will come back and read when I feel discouraged.
Thank you a lot--
I really can't complain either. With time and work, money and traffic start to come in. You're right, you have to be smart about topics. Also, titles to articles are very important. You have to title your articles in a way that reflects what people are typing into the search engine. And, yes, learn some SEO and keyword research. At this point, I don't know of a better way to get traffic other than doing keyword research for those search-friendly titles. It does work. Though on this account it did take me a couple years to start really earning, on another account, which I started after I learned a little SEO, I reached payout within months and continue to earn a good amount from it. That was with only 30 hubs, only 20 when I first reached payout. I've started another account that's well on it's way to doing even better; one day it got about 3000 views from organic traffic; only with ten Hubs. It subsided to around 300 a day and now around a hundred. Still, it's only a few months old and only has ten hubs. Age will increase those numbers, I'm confident.
HP is a great site. It's user friendly, still gets good traffic, articles rank well in the SERPs, you can learn a lot from the community and admin is smart. If you are writing here and apply intelligent technique for getting traffic, your efforts will pay off.
You're right about the negativity too. A real surge of it lately. But that has no effect on a person who is determined.
Finally, I suggest to anyone here to study how to start your own site and what works in terms of making money from it. You do want to diversify and do something that gives you independence in this endeavor.
The negativity around us is unavoidable, at least not for now. There was a time when all the good writers had to do was make average effort to make good money on HP. That's how good they were. Then Google found out some folks were abusing the system, and sent out the Panda and Penguin bulldogs to clean things up. Now these same good writers are making twice the effort and getting half the traffic they had before. This can get your head spinning, looking for something or someone to blame. The other day I was reading a thread in the forum, people were blaming those who were not born with English as their first language for the fall in traffic on HP. I started scratching my head and wondering what one has to do with the other, when a poorly written hub would not be featured anyway. Glad to read something positive after all the negativity we've had to live with this long.
CPM plays a part as well. In past years, I've seen days with $20+ CPM figures, and $10 was common. No more; now half of that $10 is more like what we see.
But that doesn't mean we can't earn some spending money here. We most definitely can, we are just unlikely to earn a living wage writing on HP (or anywhere else, for that matter). Treated as a full time job (probably with lots of OT) it's still possible, but not as a residual income sort of thing.
It wasn't that way at all. There have always been many very good writers who struggled to make much money here. That's because they couldn't get their heads around how to write for the web.
Another newcomer here would like to thank you for the encouragement! I don't know what measure of success I'll achieve, but the community here seems really welcoming and ready to share tips and inside information, so at the very least I likely won't regret coming here to give it a try.
Join us on the other forums
I love the inspiration! I just got everything set up and am excited to get my thoughts and words out to the world!
Great post, thanks for your encouragement!
I'll add to the op... There are lots and lots and lots of people here who make payout each and every month.
A great place to begin writing. I agree completely, it you write about things which people are looking for, or solve a problem, views will increase and so too will the earnings. Write about things you either love doing or are an expert then you won't need to look back.
I really hope this thread grows as long as some of the negative posts around here.
There are some problems lately, and a lot of bad vibes, It isn't easy. There are more ways to fail and fewer shortcuts than ever before. But HubPages remains a powerful site, and I believe anyone who is willing to put in the work can have success here.
Putting in the work is the key part. That means reading the Learning Center, then reading it again when you are done. Going off-site and reading sites like Moz and Copyblogger. Taking the time to learn and keep up with basic SEO. Brushing up on your grammar and style, if need be.
Confused? Overwhelmed? The thing you are staring at right now is the most powerful device ever created by humans. Any question you have about online writing has been answered many times over on countless blogs and website.
You don't have to rely on someone in these forums to help you or tell you what to do. Do the research yourself and take control of your own dang destiny. The same advice that goes toward building a good webpage anywhere else applies here as well.
Point is, HubPages is a huge opportunity if you choose to grab it. Nobody starts out good at this. Well, maybe some people. But most of us learn as we go, fail, pick ourselves back up, revise our methods, and keep on trying. That's the path. You can do it too.
If you just want to write and have some fun, you can do that as well. In my opinion it is much more fun when you are getting traffic and making money, but not everyone cares about that. Though I don't participate in it much, HubPages still has a great community of positive people, many of whom steer well clear of these forums. If you only want to write and make some like-minded friends, you can probably find a few around here somewhere.
Thanks a beautiful mess for starting this thread. I hope at least a few of the people who are frustrated might decide to keep on trying.
I agree that HubPages is a good place to write. Even if you haven't published anywhere else, you can get started, get practice writing, and if you are good, can even make money here. The community has been on a negativity trend lately, but they are, for the most part, supportive and caring. The staff is active and also supportive and caring. The staff continually seeks to improve the site and bring in traffic and revenue.
Some people may call us cheerleaders, but I truly believe it is a good site.
It is not a get-rich quick scheme, and there are people here who do not come here with the purest of intentions. But there are many more people who want to share their thoughts with the world, and want to actually write. I do hope that people are encouraged to continue to write high quality articles here.
I have my blog on Pinterest as a secret board should I switch it to a board everyone can see?
As long as you don't care if any of the included pictures end up on the front page of the New York Times, then the answer is yes.
I would say make it public, because it's another source for traffic!
A little positivity is nice to see after hearing how negative issues play out on this site. I'm a newbie but I do like the community support; and I'm learning to become a better writer. Clearly this place is not a get rich quick scheme, it's about honing in your craft and learning more each day. I'm in the process of figuring out how to generate more traffic, but I've yet to get an Adsense account so it's not a dire need. Thanks for posting this it's a great way to make new writers on Hubpages feel more comfortable.
I am glad that you are having good success on HubPages, and that you decided to start a positive thread.
This is strong encouragement.
I love HubPages and thus far, this has been my best year here yet!
Thanks for posting positivity and light, a beautiful mess. We need some of that in the community. My good news is that after a little dry spell, I'm writing hubs again. I want to get back to writing at least one per month. Great spirit you have, love it!
Thanks for the post B.M.Thank you for posting your positive outlook, It's nice to have some sunshine in the community. Keep up the inspiring work!
I don't generally post in such threads, not wanting to draw the attention of thieves, but yes HP is a good place to hone your internet writing skills. Although I stopped writing hubs for over a year, I've made payout every month since the HP earnings program was instituted. Along with Janshares, I'd like to begin writing again - HP has paid off handsomely for the time put into it.
Although it seems that the glory days of internet writing are gone, it is still quite possible to make a nice chunk of change here and I fully intend to continue taking advantage of that.
I just transferred here from Squidoo and the other day I was a bit discouraged with the forum. But then, there are so many other hubbers here who really are more inclusive and ready to help hubbers who are struggling. What impressed me about HP is the presence of a number of professional writers and authors from whom I am learning so much.
Hi beautifulmess I am willing to help out in whatever way I can. If you need help around HP just send me an email @ email@example.com, be sure to write a subject and put e.g. beautifulmess from HP okay. I will get back to you as soon as I can, we all started off from scratch don't let the negativity get you down. HP is a wonderful place and the best writing site EVER!
I don't make any money, but this platform is still interesting to me for writing. I have also noticed that the "how to" hubs do better, especially cooking, arts and crafts.
Nice to hear that you like it on hubpages. Me too. No moaning and groaning in this corner, I write because I enjoy writing and love it because others read my hubs.
I also love the writing and i am amazed at how the ideas keep coming. I always groan after publishing the last hub, "Now where will i find ideas for the next one?' Guess what? I do. I find them. Happy Valentine's Day to all lovers of the written word.
Beautiful, thank you for being positive. I believe in Hubpages and have faith that things will get better one day.
Since I got approval from adsense on December 19, 2013, I have received two payouts from Hubpages(two payouts in one year), and I believe there will be improvement in time to come.
Wow that's good, I would be really happy with that! Your soon know if I get a pay out, every hubber on hubpages, google+ facebook and wordpress will all know!!! Looking forward to the day!
After nearly 6 years I still think HP is a great place to publish. I'm just a few weeks off 6 million views, so with an average of a million views a year the passive earnings have been good.
Some people have put it down to luck or having got in early when things were easier, but it's neither of those things. I decided to work hard at it - it's as simple as that.
If you put the effort in to learning to write for the web (as Eric suggested...see Moz and Copyblogger), learn to understand your target audience, and find the people who are doing this successfully to learn from, then there's no reason you can't be successful too.
Treat it like a university course. It will probably take you at least 2 years of full time in-depth learning to get to the point where you have half a clue about what you're doing. Then another 2 to really understand...and that's if you're a quick learner. There really is a lot to take in.
Totally correct about it being an education, learning to write for the Web. Any skill takes years to refine.
I am from the UK and I have notice that hubbers from the UK tend to write a little differently to hubbers from USA, do you think that the hub team with no UK English members may find my way of writing slightly challenging I wonder!
No need to worry, they're quite used to our ways lol.
I am from the UK and tend to use to American spelling although I now have quite a large percentage of visitors from the UK. I don't think it really matters.
I think they are getting used to our ways:)
Susan, I like your testimony. Almost a million per year.
Great reply Susana S, my problem is I right about what interest me not what interest others, perhaps I should try to reverse this. Easier said than done I think!
I think you've got some topics there that will interest others too The only thing is they're in exceptionally competitive areas.
If you really wanted to earn some money you'd need to look for titles with more moderate competition.
Yep you are right Susana, but it has to interest me for me to right about it, otherwise I lose interest and never get to the end of the hub!
The standard feedback to a hubber wanting to increase traffic is "choose a keyword that is moderately searched". This means a keyword that few people are searching for. If this is the case, how could I possibly increase my traffic when only few people are searching for the keyword? So I searched for a highly searched keyword, and I got 14 million results. I suggested in the forum that if I wrote about this highly searched keyword from a unique prospective that should bring me traffic regardless that my hub would be one among 14 million other articles competing to make the Google first page. Someone responded that my hub could appear on Google first page no doubt, but "Good Luck". The comment seemed to suggest that my hub could appear on Google first page out of 14 million others only by luck, and that there was no way my hub could appear on Google first page on quality alone. It's just not going to happen with that much competition. Did I get this wrong?
The advice you've been given is correct. A hubpage cannot usually compete in any meaningful way with high quality, well established, authority (usually niche specific) websites for top level keywords no matter how good your page is. It's just the way Google works nowadays.
Ideally what you want to find are high or at least moderate traffic keyword phrases with weak competition.
I'd like to add more to my reply but I don't have time right now. I'll do my best to come back and write some more tomorrow.
Google Has its own criteria to rank pages. All you should do is to create good contents, graphics etc. Targeting competitive search terms means you will have to fight it out more.
According to this post and your previous posts on the same topic, it seems you have a lot of trouble believing there is any middle ground between extremes. Nobody has any ulterior motives of trying to hold you back from success. Far from it, everyone who's replied to you hopes you are able to create good content that gets traffic, since that is good for the site as a whole and therefore good for everyone.
But if you want to insist everyone is wrong with no counter-proof of your own, then "Good luck."
You are looking at the issue as though it's the "middle ground" or nothing at all. As you may have read, Pateluday agrees with me that it's doable to target a competitive keyword and succeed at it, but I would have to fight it out. Certainly, I'm not all alone believing as I do.
Test it out...
Or do some research. Get a list of high traffic competitive keywords together (maybe based on existing featured pages in the finance, health and tech categories) and see how often a hubpage turns up on page 1 of the search results.
I think you're right to question whether we should not go for competitive keywords. I know I've done well with some keywords and there are dozens of millions of results for them in the search engine. Also, not all sites that some people think are more reputable are impossible to beat. Why it is sometimes possible to get higher in the SERPs even with formidable competition, I'm not sure. There might be more to the Google algorithms than we think.
Only thing is, your chances are better when the competition isn't huge, either in numbers or in who they are.
Personally I don't use the figure google gives as the number of pages containing a phrase as a good indication of actual competition.
That makes sense, I hadn't thought about that, and I think I know what you're saying.
One thing I've noticed is that Google seems to really like pages with lots of synonyms strategically worked into the text. These pages do well against all sorts of competition, no matter how cheesy they look. Maybe the algorithm is looking for new information on a topic, combined with extra synonyms on the page?
I only just now spotted this reply. That's very interesting and definitely worth studying and applying. I think it's what they call latent semantic indexing.
It does seem to work. I've noticed that top competition pages in Google for the keywords I'm after, if they don't have any high authority backlinks, it's the synonyms floating them to the top....which explains why lengthy hubs do well, because you'd naturally use more synonyms....as long as you get out of "keyword writing" and write naturally. I believe Writer Fox is a great specialist in this method and a few other people make good use of it too. I write lengthy hubs, so end up with extra synonyms naturally added too.
It is Great on hub pages for many people for a lot is hard work and many miles to go. Both Seo and Earning money.
It took me a year to really start seeing results but sticking with it has been worth it. I tend to go through phases of writing loads of hubs and then not so many as I may be focusing on other areas of my work.
I think it would be fair to say I put in that effort. But it is also accurate to say that I used to earn 4x the money with half the content. There is a difference between negative tone and simple not-so-great realities that no amount of positivity will erase.
It seems like, no matter when we joined HP, we all get the message we've just missed the Golden Days of HubPages. Thee and a half years ago, I felt the same way. Then I went on to write and make friends and get encouragement. Nothing is perfect, but I see a direct correlation between realistic goals and satisfaction among the mostly contented hubbers. We don't have to be Pollyannas all the time, and calling out problems is sometimes necessary for the site to continue to attract new hubbers and keep the old timers. But overall, HP is like anything else in life. You get back what you put in and things don't always go your way.
I looked through your hubs and you've carved out a nice niche for yourself. Continued good luck!
It seems as if people like to complain more than praise. When my traffic dropped, it was easy to blame HP, easy to blame Google, easy to blame anyone other than myself. But due to personal reasons (as well as being a big complaining baby) I produce less than in the past. I used to write more hubs. Is the loss in traffic a coincidence? Hmmm....
The role that Google played on a site wide traffic drop was absolutely clear and openly discussed by Hubpages staff as being the reason for many recent policy changes. So I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that was not a real and significant trend that effected almost all hubbers.
Being positive is fine, but not to the point of being blind to real trends that should be used by people to decide how, and where, to direct their writing efforts. Especially those of us who depend on the income and need to optimize it.
It may well be that internet visitors are no longer searching in large numbers for the low competition keywords that brought high traffic to HP in the past, and the recent drop in traffic is reflecting that change. Or it may be that the low competition keywords have become highly competitive, which has brought in a larger pool of good writers from whom Google now draw its search results. Whatever it may be, one thing is certain. Change has come to HP, and it is "high competition for traffic". I agree with you psycheskinner. Recognizing that this change exists, and using it as a guide for how hubbers direct their writing efforts is right on target.
It is not a change in volume though, it is a change in how Google ranks Hubpages with roughly the same overall volume. This is an establish fact with a supporting data Hubstaff have discussed and blogged about. This is why the rules here changed and the way we write hubs to make the best of the remaining earning opportunities also had to change.
Being aware of the up and down sides of what is happening here is what makes writers more efficient. Too much pessimism and too much optimism both damage the ability to show optimal behavior.
I agree, Psycheskinner - this is a business site, in addition to the wonderful and supportive community. You are right that trends need to be analyzed and our efforts adjusted to optimize navigating through them.
This goes for the site as well as those who publish here, and I am glad site admins and managers analyze things and make changes. I can't imagine the challenge they have to track Google's latest tweaks, interpret what they mean for this site, figure out what to do, and (in many cases) adjust or create systems within the platform to adapt to the changes.
Of course there were significant changes, but I thought we were going to be positive here. My problem with the whole thing is that I have trouble understanding the difference between what G says they want and what I see popping up on the first page of a search: short paragraphs surrounded by tons of ads, sites that require you to click through ten pages to get all the information offered, and sites that are totally commercial. I also wonder how much the use of small hand held devices affect how people look up info. The short sites seem to work best for that venue and the ADD kind of thinking that permeates society today.
Personally, I prefer to read a longer article, like the kinds that appear on HP, sites with a bit more information that I generally find on page one of a search. As this apparent conundrum has me confused (and for other reasons) I produce less.
Delores - that's a good observation - I have noticed that HP has stopped discouraging 'blog' types of writing. They now refer to hubs as also being blogs. I don't know that they've lowered the standards for content, but perhaps the term 'blog' is now so widely used for online content that they've had to brand this site in that manner a bit.
Sometimes i even think that i missed something because the maze of ads hide the article i want. Some of them are stubborn. I cannot close them. I'm on Hubpages so i understand that we need ads to get paid, but they should not hide what Hubpages is all about: content that will be useful or entertaining to someone somewhere. As for the length of my hubs, i stop when i don't have anything more to say. I cannot cheat readers. They know when writers have run out of steam.
Well said bonda! For my part, I find the article length requirement ridiculous in many instances for 2 key reasons.
Firstly, a lengthy article is not always necessary to adequately respond to a query or concern that an internet using is seeking assistance about. Persons want the information they are looking for in as concise a manner as possible. No one is interested in a diatribe that goes around the bend, up river, through mountain ranges, into dark valleys.....(you get my drift).
Secondly, Once the information on a hub has been put together concisely, adequately answers all potential areas of query or concern and is appealing to look at, then the article length is redundant.
We writers are at a disadvantage. Readers have a wide choice. They click away rivers and mountains and click on sea shells and pretty pebbles on the beach.
I think readers who want just the facts would be better off at Wikipedia. HP is for writers who have something to add to just the facts. Hubs are supposed to be original content. That's hard to do if you only include information that can be found elsewhere. Where's the creativity? Where's the skill?
Again! 'Creativity' does not have to be synonymous with 'lengthy'.
No, hubs don't have to be "lengthy" but they have to cover the subject. If it's worth writing about, it needs more than 500 words. More than 1,500 usually loses my interest.
The hubs I find most useful to read are those where the author has some sort of personal experience or story or tutorial that they have done themselves. Wikipedia does not offer a personal touch like this.
There are no specifically stated length requirements, just suggestions.
All we have to do is wait until Google figures out that "lengthy" might not equal engagement. Then they'll relax about the word length to some degree. I expect this to happen over the next few years, as soon as they decide upon a new benchmark for quality. No one knows what that new benchmark will be yet, we can only guess.
I only started yesterday however, this is my first time in the forums. Hoping there isn't too much negativity. Personally don't see why it should be there in the first place.
I was introduced to the HubPages via my wife through her brother and thought it was a great idea and will now give my best and see what I can accomplish.
It's not all the time, promise!! Just lately there have been a lot of negative posts. I'm happy this post has kicked off and everyone is able to share positives!!
Welcome Akira. Your cellphone produces great images. Use those photos to make your page attractive. Hubpages has a Learning Center which tells you how to use other people's photos. It also explains how hubs are published but not featured.
Hi & Welcome Akira, I am recently new to Hub Pages as well. I am looking forward to making friends and reading some great articles. I will be sure to read a few of yours this week. Have faith in God that all will work out.
Thanks for the reassurance. I signed up this week, thinking it would be a great way to get started writing content. I'm hoping to learn the ropes here. I was a little put off after seeing just how many people seem dissatisfied with how the site is working though/search engine issues.
I've posted my first hub today and am really hoping to get involved on the forums too.
I have to say that over the years of being on HP, the forums often get filled with doom and gloom stories with people being scared over changes, traffic upturns and downturns and the future of Hubpages.
All I can say is that the proof is in the pudding. Track your earnings month by month and find out how you are progressing - this is the real story and you can make firm decisions based on fact, not emotion.
I must admit I get a bit frightened myself over forum news sometimes. But when I look at my monthlies, I know that it is emotional stuff only and my wayward belief that earning online this way has to be hard. Really, it doesn't have to be hard as long as hubs fit quality standards and you write more and more of them and let them mature, you'll see increasing results. At least, that's what I've been seeing.
The forums often fill up with the dissatisfied. The people doing well are usually quieter, or even silent. It's human nature.
Yes, Suzanne! This is exactly the reason why long Hubs do well, it gives you the chance to cover a wide variety of terms related to your main keyword.
Thank you for sharing your experience with HubPages. This is a must-read for every new comer.
I may not get the number of views that I got on Epinions, but it took a while for me to get a following there. I expect the same here.
I just want to say Thank You for sharing your story. I have been on here about two weeks and enjoying it so far.
Thanks for sharing. I think I need to go find out some DIY answers and make some hubs then. I hardly log on these days but am hopeful.
it's good to rread a positive writing once for a while. Thanks for sharing this
I joined HP just over two years ago and keep coming back to the site. I have tried writing at other places, but HP still remains the best place to write if you have something to say. Just looking at the SEO side of things, HP has done a great deal to rebuild its authority over the last few years and has managed to survive when others have fallen by the wayside.
The other thing is that HP doesn't thrust rules changes on us because it's trying to annoy us - There are often very good reasons, caused by external factors, for changes to be made. Ultimately, if you have something to say, have the time to build up a body of work, understand a little about SEO and want to make some pocket money, I think HP is hard to beat.
Oops! one of my hubs fell from grace. It was de-featured or un-featured due to low traffic. I fixed it a bit, dusted it, found great photos, added a 3 minute video and it was featured again. Maybe i should revisit my old hubs. Hey! How are you doing? Need a new twist to your old self? If i don't give you a new paint job, you will be de-featured.
by meloncauli 4 years ago
Since I finished the apprenticeship, and after umpteen updates and changes made on HP, my traffic has never picked up. I can't remember the last time I saw any more than 40 views a day. My average at the moment is more like 30. The articles I worked long and hard to produce, sit there doing nothing...
by Paddy 5 weeks ago
I've just finished boot camp recently and I feel like I have started my journey.I have yet to achieve any meaningful kind of traffic to my hubs, but I figure I'm just starting out and these things take time. My question to everyone is how do you find the most success on HubPages.What resources...
by Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago
One thing that I've noticed in my traffic stats is that one particular hub about a particular acoustic guitar - seems to be doing better than other hubs about what I would think would be guitars that are more sought after.So I looked at the hub that is doing so well, and tried to figure out why...
by Andrew Day 2 years ago
Hi,I've signed up and am ready to start making hubs in my specialised subject, but I was wondering what the earning potential of hubbig (if that's a word) actually is. I realise it all depends on how attractive your pages are and how good they are etc, but what are people actually earning? I am not...
by Shawn May Scott 6 years ago
I am still new to Hubpages and have been enjoying a rather successful start. Thank you to those who have voted my articles up and those few of you who have begun to follow me. But I have noticed one thing of late and maybe it is the way it goes but I think it is disrespectful. I have commented on a...
by bayoulady 4 years ago
Hi Anybody..I need help.I am probably am asking stupid questions. If you feel that I am, just ignore me. I've been here since late June, and thanks to all the advice I took early on, I have a good hubber score (ranges 95-100).I have 14 hubs,(or 15..can't remember..)and I like what I have done...
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