The deceitful use of multiple IDs to promote personal opinions.

1. 70

   Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

   I visit the religious forums whenever I spot a topic that intrigues me.  I happen to believe that I can learn something by listening to the opinions of others even if I may not agree with them.  There were two particular members who I found quite irritating because of their endless sarcasm, ridicule, insults, and rudeness toward other posters with whom they disagreed. Snide and derogatory remarks were typical and unending.  Often, they would excuse their behavior publicly by saying they were only returning what they themselves had received.  This rationale made them less likable and served to undermine my respect for their judgment and just about anything they had to say.  One of the two was a long time hubber well respected for his/her professionalism and expertise and the other was an obvious troll with a very old ID, a huge number of forum posts, and no hubs.   
   
   Well, to get to my point, I recently discovered that these two posters were in fact the same individual. My reaction was the notion that hiding behind a throwaway ID used solely to promote one's personal perception of reality was the act of a coward.  Or was it a calculated attempt to create the impression that someone else shared the same extreme opinions?  Either way, I can not understand why anyone would be so deceitful and two-faced while, at the same time, claiming to be logically superior and intellectually more sophisticated.
   
   Does anyone else care to offer an opinion?
   Q.

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      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This thread represents a problem on HubPages in general without directly naming anyone involved. Therefore, it and of, itself is a complete waste of time spent on the forums. I can understand Q's problem and it is part of being a member of HubPages and it's understood that there are some members who have more than one account, and how they use those account is completely up to them.
      
      HubPages is a friendly community, with a few bad apples. Yes, this is part of life. Get use to it. It is everywhere, let alone here. It is also understood that when we enter the forum there are guidelines or rules to follow, and yes some people make a mockery of the rules. When you enter a forum is known that is public domain and free speech is given out.
      
      Insults are only when a subjectively viewing other people's words. If you weren't told when you were younger, then let me tell you now- WORDS don't hurt, unless you let them. So, with that said- if my words make your blood boil, then that is your problem, not mine.
      
      If you can't stand the HEAT then don't enter the Kitchen.
      
      That's all I have to say about that! Enjoy and Have a Great Day!

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         lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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2. 60

   darksideposted 15 years ago

   They call them sockpuppets. Unfortunately the practice is as old as the Internet.
   
   Many forums have rules against such behaviour. Anyone caught doing it, in my opinion, should be banned.

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      Nelle Hoxieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. People should choose one voice and use it on the forum.

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      starme77posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      you said it darkside I totally agree with you , I think it is totally ridiculous

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   tantrumposted 15 years ago

   And who are these two ,that are one ?

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   Will Apseposted 15 years ago

   I'm not supporting rude behavior in the forums but I think you have to accept it. Learning not to let the nonsense upset you is a useful life lesson. Accepting that most people are pretty irrational is another one. As to the multiple identities- it gives you the chance to learn twice as quickly.

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   tantrumposted 15 years ago

   I think names should be given.
   This is a serious accusation. the more if one respectful hubber is involved.

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      livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      lol sounds like a run in with Mark/evolution guy(old id)

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         tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Well, if it's so, the OP should say who's he talking about. Maybe Mark has something to say about it.
         don't you think ???

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            livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I agree.

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               tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               and the fact that this thread was opened in a time where MK is usually sleeping,and can't answer now. It's about 4 AM for him.

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                  livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  which is probably why the OP didn't use his name.  I used his name and I'm not picking any fights with Mark.  I was just deducing his "old id" reference.

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      Sue Adamsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, name the culprits so we can all boycot them.

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         aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed also, but if one is a 'respectful hubber' will they actually be boycotted? - I doubt it, people like fawning too much and besides, if their 'cover' is blown why would they continue.
         
         Anybody seen 'Evo' around since he was exposed as an alter ego?

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   rebekahELLEposted 15 years ago

   it is a rather sad form of entertainment.

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   tantrumposted 15 years ago

   It's very easy to accuse without giving names!
   Anyway ,what's all this crap about?
   I think the OP was involved in a fight with one of this hubbers.
   That's all this is about !!

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8. 0

   Nelle Hoxieposted 15 years ago

   It's not just one person who does it. People fighting with themselves, supporting themselves or flirting with themselves is just getting plain tiresome.

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      tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      OK
      But nobody has to read those posts or answer them.
      I don't care about alter egos. I usually answer posts where my friends or people who I know who they are are posting

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         lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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      livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I try not to let myself get dragged into their heated debates.  I can understand why someone would want to use different id's here but to use them on the forums and even in the same thread is wrong.

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         tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Well, I sometimes do that, but most of the people know I'm Xtasis as well. And I do it to make them laugh.
         I don't see anything wrong in it.

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            XTASISposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            So what's wrong ?

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               livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               LOL nothing is wrong with it Tantrum when everyone knows both id's are related, but how many people jump into a long winded thread and read the whole thing.  Things get taken out of context very quickly and just leads to more confusion.

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                  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  when that happens,  you know it's time to move on. If you stay there is at your own risk. I think !

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                  rmcrayneposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  So true!!

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               cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               see, everyone knows this is tantrum and she doesn't try to hide the fact, so i don't have a problem with it because there's no hiding or 'deceit'. i just know some of those religious peeps have a jillion troll accounts and they never tell anybody - the writing styles are way too similar and they go after the same people, so it's not rocket science. BC respects honesty and so do i. it annoys me to no end when people go around trolling, talking trash or out-and-out lying about people ad nauseum. can you spell o-b-s-e-s-s-e-d?

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                  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I understand Cosette and have no problem with alias's used for different content or accounts.  But I have witnessed others being hurt or angered by those with multiple names and I honestly cannot see any benefit to the site or the discussion because of this.
                  
                  Having fun is one thing but hurting others while hiding behind hubpages coattails is another.  In fact, I am formally asking the staff what the purpose is in allowing this type of behavior.

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      darksideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think you've pretty much covered all the bases there.
      
      The first two are woeful. The last one crosses the line into really freaking weird and in need of some therapy.

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         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         He-he. I don't do this often, but every once in a while flirting with my female alter ego is a lot of fan. Give it a try Glen, I bet you'll like it

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      Lisa HWposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         and yet, in its weird way, it's kind of funny.     Then again, there's something to be said for just letting people know who they're talking to.

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9. 89

   rebekahELLEposted 15 years ago

   people are going to say what they want to say regardless...
   and sometimes that's the only reason.
   
   like people who enjoy the sound of their own voice, they like to see their avatar/words pop to the top of the screen.

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10. 60

    thevoiceposted 15 years ago

    I agree I am michael carvell of new world birth right life faith of God jesus the holy spirit for all human life on God earth free with God for all humanity by freedom of choice.  THis my site name the voice all my personal info is here for all people to read. One site one person should be choice. we can all laern from each other

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       tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       thanks Michael ! Wise words !

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          Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Is this you too, Tantrum?

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             tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Of course not. Why don't you read his profile ?
             I like this guy

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                Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Oh, so people's profiles have to be true?

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                   tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I don't care if it's true or not. I like him anyway.
                   and it's not me. I'm no believer, and I sure can't write more than 600 hubs onJesus !

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                      Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      So, do you understand why using more than one alias to argue a point on these forums defeats the purpose of the topics?  I have no problem if I know the two different alias's are the same person, but why should posters be allowed to second their own opinions?  If this is allowed we should all have multiple accounts and trade horsesh1t on the threads.

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                         tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         Not everybody's  so cool, or not everybody's so crazy !

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                            Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            I think you've proved that point!

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       Pearldiverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I definately can't learn anything from you mate!
       But...I'll give you a bell if I ever decide to become a WuckFit... Looks like you're an expert

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11. 0

    B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 15 years ago

    this is a very upsetting thing to tghink about...
    now look at it this way, a good christian would not lie, but they are changing heir id's to "prove" their stance....
    now to me that is lying, so they are being hippocritical and should not even bother, when they know that they are lying by changing id's....
    
    
    I swear, the ones that are supposedly trustworthy are the ones we all must watch out for.
    
    
    I am not a hard core , right wing bible thumper, but I believe in honesty, intergity, and most important - simply being myself and answering honestly as myself, if I saw it once, why should I assume a false personality to promote my personal opinion on a subject.

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You would not, if you are honest with yourself.

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    habeeposted 15 years ago

    Ya know, I couldn't have two different accounts/identities if I wanted to! I'd get too confused trying to remember which one was which and which "person" said what.

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    bojanglesk8posted 15 years ago

    Those damn ninjas man.

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       ninjas, nincompoops, same difference!

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14. 82

    habeeposted 15 years ago

    Who you callin' a ninja??

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15. 70

    Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

    Thanks Darkside for your input.
    
    Nellie, I tend to agree with you unless you are really I or I am really you.    I also regret that common courtesy is not very common at all.
    
    Richard, I thank you for your opinion that multiple IDs on the forums and even in the same thread is wrong.  Except for this thread, I’ve never known anyone who used more than one ID within the same thread.
    
    Thanks for sharing, rebekahELLE.
    
    On another note, I should clarify that I have not made any accusations. The sarcasm, ridicule, insults, and rudeness was directed at other posters and never directed at me.  In my opening statement, I reported what I observed and added my reactions.  The only purpose for this thread is to learn how other people feel about the situation that I observed.

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    Ghost32posted 15 years ago

    I have to admit, when first I discovered there were folks who used more than one ID, my first question was not "why" but "how"?  I can barely find time to keep up with a single persona....

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17. 70

    Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

    Thank you, Cags, for stopping by and dropping a comment.  I think that I agree with most of what you said even though I do not have a “problem” with what I observed. You have a great day too.
    
    B.C. BOUTIQUE: Thanks for your “honesty and integrity”.   
    
    Well said, cosette.  Thanks for your take on this subject.  I can understand that you know “this is tantrum and she doesn't try to hide the fact” but I wonder if “everyone” does.
    
    Randy, I can't say I've seen multiple Ids within the same thread, but I have seen one case of multiple Ids spread over a number of threads that always advocated the same tenets.  The fact that the viewpoints and the arguments were always the same is the reason why I began to wonder about the motive of this individual.
    
    Q.

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I have witnessed this Quill.  This is ethically wrong in my opinion and should be stopped.  Some of these characters are downright nasty to others but cry foul when their ejecta is returned to them.  A thread today was closed when a particular nasty troll was challenged.  He ran crying to his mommy (in this case a hub monitor) and had the thread closed just as predicted.  By the way, who are the monitors here?

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          Quilligrapherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I've already stated my position, Randy, so you know what I think.  It is what it is and I don’t think there is very much that anyone can do about it.  I encourage patience and setting a good example whenever anyone encounters troll abuse.  Stooping to their level doesn’t seem, to me at least, to be a good strategy.  I think any rules to control multiple Ids would be a nightmare to enforce.   Spotlighting the practice may serve to heighten awareness. 
          
          Q.

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    Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

    Ghost, I can see where one as prolific as you might not have the time.  Thanks for your slant.
    Q

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19. 66

    Daniel Carterposted 15 years ago

    Having been through a lot of drama and upset in my life, I adopted a motto that I *try* to live by.
    
    Harm neither myself nor any other person.
    
    The religion forum "debates" are not a very good example of that idea, regardless of whether there are multiple alter-egos involved or not. I really don't care if there are people with several avatars here. If the purpose is deception, it catches up with them soon enough. Mistakes are too easy to make, and the trail of breadcrumbs is never completely eaten to hide all the evidence.
    
    More often than not, I believe that we take ourselves far too seriously, pretending that somehow we represent "God" and therefore, he somehow condones despicable behavior, while in opposite cases those who don't believe in "God" certainly believe they have nothing to lose no matter how they act.
    
    It's odd regardless. I believe that most everyone has a conscience. There may be those who are mentally ill in some way who don't know what a conscience is, but for the most part, everyone, regardless of beliefs has an inner voice of what is good and bad.
    
    When you get that basic, it's pretty hard to justify bad behavior even when you pretend to claim  you're "right." Terrorists also claim they are right and ignore their conscience of what is good.
    
    Killing people is not good. Neither insulting people or causing so many of the negative feelings found in the religion forums (and other forums where temperatures run high).
    
    In a world as complex and sad as this one, it seems *good* to me to help each other through, not bring each other down.
    
    After living in 50 years of hate, abuse, and tragedy, I may look like an idealist fool, but I can tell you it's a far, *far* better way to live than my previous life. I'm sticking with this.

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       rebekahELLEposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       nice thoughts ~ harm no one.
       
       I think as much as we may feel like a community here, I still remember that we're online, anybody could be anybody here~~ it would be naive to believe that everyone here is 'nice'.
       we don't know each other.  sometimes when I glance at the forums to see who's on, I wonder how many different people are really behind those avatars or if it's just a handful of the same people entertaining themselves. like today...

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    yoshi97posted 15 years ago

    Multiple accounts exist so some writers can write about multiple topics without having a crossover with their name. For instance ... what if a person wants to write PETA articles and articles on using animals for drug testing ... that wouldn't go so well on the same profile.
    
    Also, some people might want multiple accounts to keep their topic areas sorted out, so one account is known for one thing and one for another. Still ... nothing wronmg with that, as that pertains to the writing side of things.
    
    And then ... there are the sockpuppets. These are the ones who create multiple accounts, but only one of them writes hubs. The others typically exist to troll the forums and exube reactions from others.
    
    My opinion? Have as many writing accounts as one wants, but only ONE account for the forums. Nothing in this is unfair as it allows all to participate, it just limits the forums down to the individuals that can be proven at any time to truly exist. It also ends a lot of the gang mentality if we know that we are not being gamed by one person using multiple identities.
    
    There is no real justification for using multiple identities in a forum. Some say it's just for fun ... well, you can have just as much fun as a single identity. Others ... well others abuse the priviledge to impede upon others and I don't consider that fair or just.
    
    Again, I am NOT against multiple accounts for the purpose of writing hubs ... a person can have 50 identities to write with and I consider that just and fine. However, more than one identity on a forum? What good could come of that?

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       This is the same suggestion I proposed and it would work fine.  As Sunforged suggested, it would be necessary to interact on the forums but not on the same thread as two different entities. 
       
       It has gotten to the point where no one knows if they are conversing with several members or just one with multiple accounts.  This destroys any semblance of fairness on the particular topic.  What is the use of having these forums if one can't converse with others without wondering if those opposing/backing their views are numerous members or just one person?   It's a load of ->

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    sunforgedposted 15 years ago

    keep in mind that if one had multiple legitimate accounts, say for different topics, they would probably have to do some forum posting in order to fulfill the hubber interaction segment of their hubscore

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       darksideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Not necessarily so.
       
       My wife has an account, and she doesn't partake in the forum and she sits on around 89 to 91.
       
       I have a few secondary accounts and one has 6 hubs with a score of 81. And other accounts in the high 80s and low 90s.
       
       Of course its not always the case. There are those that consistently score below 75. But I'm not linking out from those hubs so the nofollow doesn't concern me.

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       rebekahELLEposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think the forum interaction has that much to do with scores. I've gone for periods of time (week) without posting and still had a score in the 90s when I came back.

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22. 80

    mega1posted 15 years ago

    The innocence and naivete of certain hubbers who are always "amazed" at how some hubbers use the hubs and forums never ceases to astound me - (signed) A Bad Apple~! (wouldn't that be a great hubber name!

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23. 70

    Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

    Good motto, Daniel.  Never let it go!
    
    Thank you, yoshi, for your post.  You opinion is appreciated.  I agree with your conclusions regarding writers' Ids.  Multiple Ids in the forums, however, strike me as being a bit unsavory.
    
    Q.

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    sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago

    I just want to know who's a guy and who's a girl!

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       aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Not allowed to ask in this PC world...
       
       Good night Sneaker, it's 2am where I am!

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          sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Good night! Where are you?

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             aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Spain...

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    Sue Adamsposted 15 years ago

    So when they get found out they can but close their account right? Someone should write a hub and publicise all the bad alter egos.

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26. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 15 years ago

    People posting on the same thread from the same ip address with different accounts is far less common than you'd think, and in a spot check of incidents from the last week or so I didn't see any obvious abuses.  If we do see abuse, we will issue warnings or suspend people from the forum.

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Obvious abuse meaning....?

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       1. STAFF

          pauldeedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          People having conversations with themselves, supporting their own posts with other accounts, or other deceptive behavior, especially where the second account was not well known as related to the first or disclosed in some way.

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             aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             So (presumably) we should report to HubCentral any hubbers we believe are doing this with malicious intent?
             
             ....or can we rely on you guys picking it up?

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    Sue Adamsposted 15 years ago

    Thank you, I'm so glad to hear that.

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    Sue Adamsposted 15 years ago

    Are you a multiple ID hubber randy?

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Deed I'm not!  This is my only account and this is my real name.  It's hard to get use to the multiplicity of alias's being allowed to affect the members discussions on this site. Yes, I'm old fashioned and a southerner in the bargain.  I still believe in honesty and ethics but these now once valued assets seem things of the past.

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