Please return the rightmost 20% of my screen.

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   Satoriposted 16 years ago

   It's the oddest thing... on a given Hub we have our articles, a column of either Hub-altering options or user data, depending on Hub ownership, and then about 20% of pure virgin-white Nothing.  Cramming up our articles into shorter lines, over on the left.  Everything to the right of the "help" button on down is essentially empty space eating up room for articles.  Does anyone know of a valid reason for this that I've missed a memo on?
   
   In the meantime, if anyone has seen the rightmost 20% of my screen please contact me by e-mail to arrange its safe return.

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      relacheposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Yes.  Paul and Jason have both addressed this in the forums a few times in the last year.

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         Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks, relache.  What was the gist of them, or where can I find them?

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   darksideposted 16 years ago

   The width of the content column is fine. To expand the width would result in a loss of readability.

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      Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I think that's necessarily subjective, darkside.  Readability is lost through constant line-breaks, no?

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         Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         
         No the short answer is the shorter lines are faster to scan and therefore quicker to read - see the link provided above

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   gamergirlposted 16 years ago

   Well, there's a function to search the forum, but I did that for you.
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/1472

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      Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      And still finding my way around HubPages, I appreciate that.
      
      So the problem is that they went with a fixed-width layout.  And they didn't think to allow individual users the option of selecting their layout from the options, rather than create a one-size-fits-all solution.  Pretty kludgey, but they're a startup.  It may change with time, but right now they have to prioritize their application of manpower.
      
      Thanks for the info.

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4. STAFF

   pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

   Having a uniform look and feel across all hubs was a deliberate decision.  Using a fixed width layout was simply a practical decision.  It is somewhat confining, but it makes many engineering tasks so much easier.
   
   It may not be quite what you had in mind, but you could make your own style sheet for HubPages and have it look pretty much however you want in your own browser.  Here's an example of someone doing that for gmail.
   
   http://blog.persistent.info/2004/10/ski … sheet.html
   
   Of course, any time we add something new you'd have to adjust your custom style sheet, so it isn't the most practical thing to do.

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      Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I'm familiar with that decision; convenient from an engineering standpoint, and kludgey from a user standpoint.  I can only hope that HubPages re-thinks that decision once things pick up for it.
      
      Thanks for your post.

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   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   What does "kludgey," mean?

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      relacheposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kludge

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         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         LOL Thanks relache. I never heard that particular word before.

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   casparposted 16 years ago

   We used to call our outside toilet a cludgey!  (I'm not that old...we did have an inside one as well - we used to store coal in the outside one - actually that does make me sound old).

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   relacheposted 16 years ago

   I've only ever heard it used by people who were doing computer programming at least 20 years ago.

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   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   Nice. I did actually look it up before I asked, but couldn't find a definition.
   
   Not often I hear a word I have never heard before and can't find.

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   WeddingConsultantposted 16 years ago

   So do you grok it now Mark?
   
   Sorry, I had to try for another word...

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    darksideposted 16 years ago

    Satori, I see the beret and I read the arrogance... you're not French by any chance are you?

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       Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       LOL

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       Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Nope.  Just better.
       
       In all seriousness, misstating the subjective as objective, and indulging in a sense of unwarranted elitism are two pitfalls to which writers and artists are particularly prone.  I've had people respond to simple questions and innovative suggestions here on the forum with more snobbery, grilling, various baseless and factually-empty statements, and insinuations of ulterior motive on my part in the last week than I've gotten from everyone else in my life put together over the last three months.  It's dysfunctional, it's abusive, and it subtracts value from my using the forums - as well as from the lives of the people who make those choices.  Occasionally I'll take the time to point out the logical flaws, but full-scale psychotheraputic overhauling is beyond the scope of my interest in being here.
       
       Good luck with that, people.

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    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Once things pick up for it?
    
    Is having an Alexa ranking of 889 (which is a 1000 ranking jump from the last time I mentioned Hubpages' Alexa rating a few weeks ago) not enough?  Is being the absolute best community for writers in terms of ease of use and general search engine love not enough?  Come come now!!

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    chantelg4posted 16 years ago

    The whole screen is way too much, but sometimes I wonder if I would prefer to have it centered? I have a widescreen laptop so lots of space, but I am used to it.
    
    Darkside, making fun of French people?
    
    

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    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Satori, please remember that HubPages sells itself as a place to EASILY  create your own webpages without all the techie stuff.
    
    The more you allow people to change layouts and formatting, the more difficult it becomes, which means HubPages would be moving away from its core promise.  If you want to have total artistic freedom to do what you want, it sounds like you're already beyond needing HubPages and can create your own!

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       Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I appreciate your note of confidence, Marissa.  I could actually create my own.  I'm here on HubPages instead because it has a community.  And as a contributing member of that community, providing feedback in an effort to improve it is something I see as a form of social responsibility and participation.  Because I don't have an end-user mentality, I feel free to make suggestions without assuming that HubPages will be disinterested in them - because in making those suggestions I give HubPages the option of making that decision, rather than making it for them.
       
       You're correct about HubPages attempting to make it easy.  I don't think that adding the option to customize would be particularly difficult for most users - they wouldn't have to use it.  But again, I don't think like an end-user.  I could be wrong there.  Still, it's worthwhile to make the suggestion.  I'd like to see HubPages prosper and thrive.

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          Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Check out the thread about allowing people to customise their layouts for some perspective on this issue.
          
          On the note of the way your suggestions are being received, I will let you know that there is something in the tone of your writing which is somewhat offensive. I'm sure it is unintentional, but  I am sure that tone is driving some of the responses you are getting.
          
          It is difficult as a newcomer to know what is "good manners". Because you came in with lots to say, and you hadn't had time yet to learn how to say it appropriately, you have had a lot more resistance than if you had come in, taken time to learn your way around, and put your suggestions into the flow of conversation in a natural and co-operative manner.
          
          The conventions in a community like this are subtle, and everyone takes a little while to learn the ropes, no matter how good we may be at writing, communicating, and discussing things anywhere else. That is the nature of community.
          
          The reactions you are getting are just that - reactions. When you shift your style, the reactions will shift, too.
          
          Jenny

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             Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             I disagree.  I may present my ideas more precisely - and often with more substance - and as a result I am more confident.  If confidence is regarded as offensive, I reject out of hand the notion that the fault lies with me.  Abuse is never warranted, and blaming its recipient is spurious reasoning indeed.
             
             
             
             I've been posting on forums for years.  I am not responsible for the preconceptions and assumptions that others make, and refuse to accept that I must cater to them.  However prevalent baseless preconceptions and assumptions are in the world, they're dysfunctional and should be neither humored nor coddled.  If a vocal minority of HubPages users want to turn the forums into a threshing mill for invented snobbery, they certainly have that prerogative.  Personally, I think it's a losing proposition, because those same creative energies could be better applied to writing Hubs.  But occasionally I'll drop an idea or suggestion into the piranha tank, if only for the benefit of staff.  I'll have to remember not to take it too seriously; losing dysfunctional acquaintances would seem to be more their loss than my own.
             
             
             
             I'm disinclined to pursue dysfunctional conventions, in any societal arena.  If they don't work, and if that can be made obvious and no-one is interested, there's little I can do besides leave such a community with the wonderful things it has thus produced... such as the fabulously successful political and economic systems for which we hear people continually cheering.
             
             
             
             While I disagree with most of your points, I appreciate your feedback.  Thanks.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    I suggest we all stop feeding the troll

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       Satoriposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Take a look at my stats.  Then, count your blessings libel seldom extends to the internet.
       
       Then, forget you ever spoke to me, and never ask yourselves what you missed out on by snubbing someone new to HubPages for no apparent reason.  And wonder why your lives don't work.

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       Stacie Naczelnikposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Misha - are you keeping score?  We agree yet again.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Jenny,
    
    You are an angel
    
    But stop feeding him, seriously. In my experience this is the only effective way to deal with that kind of people - aside from banning them of course.

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    Stacie Naczelnikposted 16 years ago

    Seriously, this thread is for suggesting new features.  It is good to make suggestions.  However, some of us are protective when our lovely HP seems to be under attack - we do get defensive.  This doesn't mean we are not open to improvement.  However, the HubPages crew has stated on the forums that they don't plan on changing the layout of the site.
    
    I honestly find the continuity throughout HubPages as a plus.  Not everyone has to agree, but why beat a dead horse?  Have your opinion, and move on.  If the HubPages crew decides to implement changes, they will.  If not, find a place that is more to your liking.  But I think you will like it here and see that HP really is a good place to be.

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    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    *facepalms*
    
    Geez.
    
    Satori, darlin' (and I mean that in the nicest sense,) you have been a member of the site for 8 days.  Trust me when I say this - as a veteran forum poster myself - Hubpages is a whole different animal.
    
    Firstly, you will find a large contingent of users who are very, VERY happy with the way Hubpages is formatted.  After registering, the process of "getting noticed" by the internet bigwigs' utilities (search engines and the like) is extremely simple, and a uniform format across the board brings the focus not on flashy design or distinguishing one Hubber from another, but in the CONTENT brought forth.
    
    Secondly, you came in with a sort of guns blazing kind of attitude.  Jenny was very polite and spot on in a number of ways, which you have apparently taken some sort of defensive stance against.  You are far from being abused.
    
    Now, this is what I see:
    
    -Hubpages has set the site up a certain way, and for reasons which were clearly explained by Paul, who is one of the employees of hubpages, and who answered your query with patience which we mere Hubbers may not display due to the latitudes and freedoms being a common user of the site provides.
    
    -Hubpages' forums are different in feel and in composition from any other forum I have ever been a part of, and I have been doing this networking/Internet thing since 1990 through BBSes all the way to today.
    
    -Nobody is asking you to cater to them.  We simply ask, at least I do, that you take the word of the Hubpages employee who responded to your initial query and regard it as 'The Word.'  Hubpages users have the power to suggest features, but it is the decision of Hubpages staff whether to implement the feedback they receive.  Please note the latest changes included allowing Hubbers to view the individuals who signed up using their tracker codes - a request made countless times by Hubbers that was finally implemented.  This change was accompanied by several other tweaks.
    
    -Our responses to your postings and your mannerisms are certainly not baseless.  They are formed from our individual interpretations of your words and the method by which you present your thoughts and ideas. 
    
    -Trolling the forums is generally frowned upon, unless you are Mark, but that's another story for another time.  By appearing to be more and more insulting, you distance yourself from any desire to be constructive.  Take it from an expert forum troll, it's not always welcome and it is just as wrong coming from one end as it is the other.
    
    Please, for the sake of understanding where it is that those of us who have responded to you are coming from, go to the main forum page and do searches for terms like:
    
    hub page width
    custom layout
    hug page design
    
    You will find, every time, the responses have been largely an outcry for the overall layout to remain the same by some of the most successful Hubbers, as well as newbies.  The answer from staff has remained the same as well - a resounding no.
    
    One last suggestion, and you are obviously entitled to ignore my post as you disregarded my previous words - step away from the forums for a day or two.  Come back with less insults, less of an appearance of wishing to be confrontational, and having taken a peek at some of the previous threads on the subject.  I think at that point you may be able to understand better why you received the reaction you have.

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    darksideposted 16 years ago

    Satori, you are a man of many words. Far too many words.
    
    You see problems that don't exist and then you attempt to find a complicated solution to fix these non-existent problems.

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    Maddie Ruudposted 16 years ago

    Satori:
    
    I'm going to reiterate what a few users like Jenny and Charlotte have stated above.
    
    You are eliciting some negative reactions from long-standing community members, probably because you are a newbie with a lot of ideas (which is great!), but you're presenting them in a way that could sound condescending or confrontational (for example, the title of this thread might come off less as constructive suggestion, and more as a self-righteous demand).  While you're not breaking any rules, and we encourage sharing ideas and knowledge here, you may want to choose to change your tone, simply to get along better with the community.
    
    Every site has its own tone, and the users here seem to be giving you feedback about the atmosphere here and how you might better fit in with it.  If you choose not to, that's up to you, but that means you may continue to receive negative feedback from those around you.  And while I do not tend to moderate disagreements between users, I may have to step in and close threads that get overly aggressive or personal, or where nothing more can be gained from continuing the discussion...
    
    ...starting with this one.  Your suggestion has been duly noted, and you've clearly stated reasons for your position.  This thread is now closed.

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