HubPages Bumps Up Writer Revenues Amid Content Farm Controversy

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WebbyAvatarposted 13 years ago
HubPages made a significant upgrade to its payments, bringing on ad networks including Tribal Fusion, AOL’s Advertising.com, Microsoft pubCenter, ValueClick and Glam Media. Previously the site had used Google AdSense and Amazon and eBay affiliate links. The company is also hiring its own ad sales team.

Source: http://networkeffect.allthingsd.com/201 … ters-more/
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, HP ain’t screwing around.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Increased ads won't help unless traffic gets fixed.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But if the ads are backed by a particular search engine that gets its revenue off them, the said search engine may bring traffic, just as Google took it away.
  
  Traffic is not some objective thing unrelated to advertising.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ads can't bring traffic. Neither Microsoft nor anyone else wants to get caught fudging SERP to drive people to places that run their ads.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some of our hubs are really good. They got demoted unfairly. A different search engine could decide to give us what is our rightful place, but not just out of the kindness of its heart! The readers won't suffer, and that particular search engine may rank higher in the process with searchers.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't.
  
  Google is the most used search engine.
  
  Moreover, Micosoft will be looking to make similar adjustments.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Google was not always the most used search engine and it may not always be. Anyone looking to beat Google can't do it by copying their every move. They have to do something better: such as find a way to sift out the bad content without tarring an entire site.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you think Microsoft will?
  
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  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Unless there's some commercial reason to do that, no, they won't.
  
  As far as I can see, the only thing I can do to help the hubpages situation is to be more militant when hopping.
  
  I can help myself by doing all the usual webby income-y stuff, of course, but I like the convenience of HubPages, and I hope it stays around and profitable.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not necessarily. I'm not a Microsoft fan, and I don't think they're any cleaner than anyone else. But whoever does it will not just copy Google move for move.
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  I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This was true a decade ago, but the game has changed. There isn't a hot new search engine every year like during the 1990's. Google has dominated for a decade, and they're in a position where it would be very hard to knock them off their perch. It's not just about some kid writing a great algorithm anymore, it's about making a huge investment to make a search engine with all the features that people want. Google has hundreds of thousands of servers and hard drives, constantly processing and storing new information. It would take a company as big as Microsoft to even attempt to top Google. Microsoft tried, and so far they have failed miserably to make a better search engine. They've even been caught copying Google search results directly -- an indication that their algo couldn't compare with the Big G. A new search engine becoming the next Google is about as likely as the local Mom & Pop gas station and convenience store becoming the next Wal-Mart.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, in fairness to Microsoft, they were caught sampling.. they do their own analysis too.
  
  But yeah, they'll never do it right. They lack the talent. The only reason they have gained any ground is by making Bing the default choice, which many ignorant people will just accept.
  
  But Google has helped them, too, by letting bad content rise high in SERP and by letting blackhat SEO manipulare it so easily. They have yet to solve those problems and are at risk until they do.
  
  But you can bet on this: Microsoft will NEVER solve that. Google might, Microsoft never could.
  
  http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews … ag=nl.e550
  
  Let’s take a look at the hard numbers. In February, Bing nabbed 4.37% of the global share, just ahead Yahoo! at 3.93%. They both still pale in comparison to Google’s whopping 89.94% share of the pie, but it is interesting to see Bing growing. All of those TV product placements must be helping.
  
  Oh, yeah: they are SMOKINNN!
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some new kid with a better handle on AI could buck the system, with fewer resources, and with no regard for authority. But he'd actually have to program a bot to read for content. ;->
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He'd also need one heck of a pile of money to invest in server farms.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or... he could just sell it to one of Google's competitors. ;->
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He'd be smarter to sell it to Google. The only competitor with enough money to use it is Microsoft and they have been accused of screwing people out of intellectual property rights.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I can believe that about MS. But if I had this great AI brealthrough, I wouldn't exactly sell it. I'd rent it out, while keeping the secret proprietary.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not true Aya - otherwise sites that feature Adsense ads would get more traffic from Google.
  
  Search engines can't afford to skew their results to suit their advertisers, because users aren't idiots and would soon get fed up.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true Marisa. I'd also like to add that many sites that have JUST advertising on them often don't even get indexed, especially when they don't have enough real content.
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  muratosposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Contextual online advertising should work the following way (ideally). It should be WWWW (Win - Win - Win - Win) for Google, Buyer, Advertiser, Content publisher.
  
  A potential buyer searches "ipad case". Goes to a ranked website in page 1. Clicks on an ad. Advertiser pays $0.70 for the click to Google. Google gets its share from the click. let's say 0.40$. The publisher website gets 0.30$. For 1000 clicks advertiser pays $700. If their sales cover the expenses (it can also mean that buyers are buying well, happy ones on the long range), advertiser continues to pay to Google for ads. Google become happy, publishers happy, advertiser happy with profits and buyers like their ipad case and continue to buy.
  
  If one part is missing in the chain, the system eventually fails. If visitors to ads do not buy, advertiser cuts the payments, Google loses, publishers lose. Google's aim is to bring content with their ads and show content buyers are likely to click the ads efficiently and buy. making clicks on the ads is not enough on Google's side.
  
  I used the example for purchases but it can be services, leads and some advanced arbitrage methods as well.
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  GmaGoldieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Increased ads is NOT the answer - correctly the position and prestige of HP is needed immediately.
  
  I am simply dismayed.
  
  I trust the management and staff of HP and know they will respond - an immediate response with long term goals is needed. I don't NEED them to change today but I need to know it will be OK>
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  dingdongposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They're working on it, go read the HP blog if you haven't yet
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  GmaGoldieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, thank you! I will have to check it out!
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Though Paul's recent comment tells it all:
  
  "The primary goal is to make sure we really understand the changes."
  
  That's the problem. They have to figure out WHY Google has demoted HP. Only then can they decide what can be done to fix it.
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  snakebabyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So....what do we do with these new ad programs? When will they be available. Must try out to see/feel if these things would work
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Cagsilposted 13 years ago
Interesting post.
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  WebbyAvatarposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HP had tweeted about it
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
I just want to say...please invite me
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Aware1posted 13 years ago
This is awesome! I was just about to post this.... read it from FB.

Go Hubpages Go!

Can't wait to hear more...
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Ritsosposted 13 years ago
that's interesting and pro active but will it mean we have to sign up to all of them and also will it mean even more ads on the pages which will devalue it's worth as content andmake it appear more 'spam' like ?

It would be good to have an incentive to maybe write less but better quality ... I've only just joined and the message I get is you need loads of hubs to make any money and no one is an expert on 800 things so there is a lot of substandard stuff targetted at ads .... I understand why people do that but maybe would be better to have less pages and better quality
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that HP will not make us sign up with the new ad programs. Instead, they will pay us our share through PayPal. It's in the new TOS.
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  SimeyCposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You sign up as an HP Affiliate and get paid through Paypal from Hubpages. The HP Ads replace the Google Ads in certain positions; from my experience in the Beta it was actually very hard to tell the difference - the ads were a little more generic but were effective.
  
  The transition is seamless and overall I perceive upwards of 20% revenue increase - probably more! It was growing as the 'Google' thing happened, and I feel it will continue to grow...there has been a dip but I'm still pleased with the revenue I am getting and it has exceeded my expectations even after the google thing!
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, Simey! So you're one of the Beta pioneers! Good for you!
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  SimeyCposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL thanks! I've been dying to say something for a few weeks, and the last few days have been hard as I've seen the discussions build! But we were finally given the go ahead to talk about the Ad program!!! I'm sure a few more will surface!
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  Sue Adamsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Some of us have under 40 hubs and are making money. The main criterion is therefore not quantity but quality.
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  Ritsosposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Sue .... Yes .... I think I was just keen to get some hubs going to see what happened and relatively pleased to have got a tiny bit of cash within a few days so I must be doing something right. I probably will persist with quantity to some extent ... but probably things that actually are ok with that such as recipes, but I will expand a couple of my more interesting hubs and also try to write some better quality articles soon.
  
  thanks
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dishyumposted 13 years ago
Hmmm good news?
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SandyMcCollumposted 13 years ago
Wow, there's 220,000 of us! Wow.
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2uesdayposted 13 years ago
I hope someone who is good with numbers and explaining things will post a simplified version of what it means, for me to understand. I think I know what it says, but I am not sure as I can read it to mean different things.
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WebbyAvatarposted 13 years ago
Words from HP:

http://blog.hubpages.com/2011/03
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  David 470posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the post. Glad to here hubpages is really trying to sort things out. In the end - I hope things come through.
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WryLiltposted 13 years ago
For those not aware, read section 9 on the new ToS: http://hubpages.com/help/user_agreement_mar2011

This was announced on the same day as the algorithm change BUT they are in no way connected. Hubpages has been experimenting with different revenue share ideas for the past few months.

According to the new ToS, the extra payment program will be ON TOP of current affiliate earnings and will be paid once per month once the amount is over $50, via Paypal.
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  sabrebIadeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So it would be like what Squidoo does?
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  ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes kinda, but we can run both models at the same time. So extra ads basically.
  
  Squidoo do it with AdSense, this will be with Hubpages going out and selling their own ad spaces
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dingdongposted 13 years ago
Microsoft will either copy or crawl the Google results.
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GmaGoldieposted 13 years ago
PC Unix is absolutely correct - traffic MUST be increased.

Whatever HP needs to do to increase traffic is GREATLY needed.

I am here for the exposure not the money but the traffic and the exposure are the same. My traffic has dropped through the flow and I am crying - all this hard work for what?

Should I move my content?

When will HP host video?

Need answers - sorry for the "paniced" words - I have worked hard for the Hubs and just starting to promote traffic and feel I MAY need to change course.
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  David 470posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree GmaGoldie. Hubpages is a great site, but if the traffic is not here than getting exposure/traffic it makes me wonder...
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jokeapptvposted 13 years ago
this is sooooooooooo great AAA+
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  Mikeydoesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds about right with me.
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sofsposted 13 years ago
I guess HP is doing the best possible for us and for them under the circumstances. Yes, I agree traffic has to improve, but I have noticed that it is slowly bouncing back.
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  Mikeydoesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mine dropped again today. I haven't been making near as much since the change. I'm still optimistic though, this is exciting news. I just want to know what is up with hubvids!
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
Well, I made twice as much today as yesterday. But, my views were lower.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Same here, but my income is now so low that it doesn't take much to double it. My traffic has just slowly fallen each day since the cliff edge of the change.
  
  I'm also seeing that my xomba 50 word backlinks now rank just under my hubs.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cheer up Wilderness...it will get better! I just know it, I can feel it in my bones.
  FYI my stats are still pretty awful but I think more tweaks are going to get made yet - good ones.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I hope your bones are right!
  
  I'm just in a waiting mode right now. Personally, I don't see anything changing radically for some time - we'll just have to wait it out.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I actually don't know what I'm so excited about, because my stats were never that great anyway! lol
  
  That said, let's get back to writing hubs and stop worrying about all this.
  Tomorrow, I'll start publishing again..
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Adroit Alienposted 13 years ago
I would love to see this happening.

Living in a state that only allows Adsense is a bummer. More option is good for everyone. Yeah, Google is still #1 but in a few years, Bing has already surpassed Yahoo! in terms of traffic.

I'm very excited to see what's in store.
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Dolores Monetposted 13 years ago
The idea that Google has created a new algo for better content is a good idea but is it working? Have you Googled anything lately? I was looking for some info yesterday and the top sites were all totally commercial. Some did not even provide the info in the title.
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readytoescapeposted 13 years ago
Can someone explain how adding more advertisers on the site the writers are not affiliated with help the authors that are seeing existing traffic and affiliate revenue fall?

Certainly this move will assist the site recoup lost revenue, but I fail to see how this move assists the writers.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Readytoescape, I think it has something to do with why we had a lot of traffic from Google in the first place. Whether you are writing for money or just in order to be heard, having lots of traffic is good. The reason we published with HP, is that we got good traffic from Google, when the exact same article published elsewhere got no traffic. Now, part of that was because Google got revenue through HP, so it was good for everybody.
  
  If Google doesn't want that revenue anymore and is willing to jeopardize it, then signing up with a different advertiser that has a different search engine affiliation might help to fill the gap, in terms of traffic.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Google does NOT send traffic based on the revenue it makes from the site. Period. Never has and never will.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then explain to me why it is that the same article without Google ads on a different site gets zero traffic when it had been earning really well on HP with ads?
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  livewithrichardposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would think it depends on where the article was first published and that article will get more traffic because it will show up in the serps before the duplicate article does.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There was no duplicate. It was unpublished here first, then re-published elsewhere shortly thereafter. You'd think the search queries would have persisted, and an unbribed search engine would simply direct the traffic to the new URL for the old article.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do they know this is the same article?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Unless you directed the old URL to the new URL, Google doesn't know it's the same article. It treats it as an entirely new article with no reputation.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Right. But that's because Google is not making decisions based on content at all. You can argue that the bots can't be expected to read an article and evaluate the writing as to quality, but there is no way that you can argue that the bots are incapable of going through an article and determining that it is word for word identical with another article they read a week ago on another site. Even I could write a program that can do that. They just don't care. All they care about is authority. It's a medieval outlook on things. It doesn't matter what you say -- all that matters is who you are and who else likes you.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because HP has authority, and the other site - based on what you said - don't.
  
  Seriously Aya, you are not a big fan of conspiracy theories, why are you thinking G will follow such a suicidal approach? I am not saying it does not favor the sites that bring it noticeable revenue, it likely does, but in much more subtle ways - to be able to stay afloat.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Misha, fine, in subtle ways, much more subtle than I spelled out here. But there is a connection between advertisers and search engine traffic, and this connection should be something we consider when we take on new advertisers.
  
  Authority, BTW, is something each search engine defines in its own way. It's not as if this were an objective term.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, I don't think they favor them in terms of ranking, too much unjustified risk IMO. I am rather thinking of giving more leeway during manual reviews, that kind of stuff.
  
  And yes, authority certainly is not something that could be easily and universally defined across the board, but it exists and has an enormous effect on rankings.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think maybe we can all agree that HP has momentarily lost authority with Google, and that barring being able to get that authority back, we need to find a search engine that will restore the old authority, based on the exact same set of facts.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not convinced that we do all agree. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that the dust hasn't settled yet and that it's very hard to tell.
  
  For example, some searches still yield HP pages at the top. If there is a loss of authority, apparently those pages are strong enough to override it.
  
  Or it could just mean that all the balloons were tossed in the air and some are settling in different positions and some are not.
  
  We need to wait.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because until the algo change, HubPages had a good reputation in Google's eyes. Just being on HubPages gave the article a boost.
  
  If you then moved it to a little unknown blog that had no reputation at all, it would naturally sink without trace.
  
  I had a Blogger blog with Adsense on it which did nothing. Later, after learning lessons from HubPages, I created a self-hosted Wordpress blog on the same subject with the same articles. It did fairly well (and still does). It doesn't have Adsense.
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  Susana Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HP have been testing out different ad networks for well over a year and Paul Deeds stated some months ago that they were considering creating a system whereby hubbers could earn from premium advertisers. It's not in response to the google changes.
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readytoescapeposted 13 years ago
Still not seeing an advantage for writers as indicated in the OP’s article link.

As the internet has developed into a mass advertising delivery system, it would seem to make perfect business sense for Google, or any other search engine, to rank and deliver content that contains their paying clients’ advertisements by priority, first, those site (content) that contain only google ads, secondly those that contain a majority of Google ads and so on, with the lowest ranking returns sites that contain no google ads.

It would appear to me that by adding more advertising competitors the overall site (HP) rankings would necessarily have to fall in googles eyes.

Now, if Hub pages was to change the sharing system and pay us directly rather than by affiliate share then the decision might make sense.
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  Susana Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know what you're saying but it doesn't correlate with what's being seen with the algorithm change. The sites hardest hit are ones that monetize to a high degree with adsense. If google were prioritising sites in the search results who deliver high adsense returns then hubpages wouldn't have taken a hit, neither would about.com, associated content and the rest.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Susana. But somebody must have pressured Google to disregard the revenue stream from HP in prioritizing things. It's dirty pool on top of dirty pool.
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Len Cannonposted 13 years ago
Right, well, I guess we're good to talk about it. Overall I am very impressed, the earnings are good, the ads look nice. I just ~published a Hub~ about my experiences with the new program, with a little bit of an inside look at what your earnings look like when you sign up.

I can't say if it is perfect for everyone, but I know it was a very positive experience for me. If and when it becomes available at large, I hope everyone gives it a try.

Really though, I only have good things to say about HubPages Ads.
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  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will check out your hub!
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andromidaposted 13 years ago
This will certainly give more immunity to writers from Google's control over publishing sites that depends mostly on Google Adsense program.I appreciate Hubpages's attempts to start its own ad network.
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dingdongposted 13 years ago
Simone from HP team just said in other thread that the first set of invitations has been sent out..!
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Len Cannonposted 13 years ago
hahaha, yeah, I was "invited." I dunno if they did that with with all the people in the beta or if it was just a weird result of the random selection.
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HubPages Bumps Up Writer Revenues Amid Content Farm Controversy

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