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Why are Hubbers deleting hubs?

  1. sid_candid profile image61
    sid_candidposted 6 years ago

    I understand it difficult times but what good will deleting hubs do? I see some of the most prolific hubbers deleting heaps of hubs. Have we lost the hope of a hubpages bounce back?

    1. Barbara Kay profile image86
      Barbara Kayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That was my thought too. I deleted two, but they didn't get any traffic and weren't that good to begin with. Some of these people are talking about large numbers of hubs. I wish they would cut it out. Not only will it lower their income, but Hubpages too.

      1. sid_candid profile image61
        sid_candidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I totally agree with you Barbara. The problem is that some of the best hubbers are deleting hubs which my not be best signs someone just starting on with hubpages. I mean say I am a new hubber and I follow a senior hubber and suddenly see 20 hubs gone from his/her profile. I mean I would be lost thinking either the site or the hubber is not good enough.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Some may be moving them to more lucrative venues, such as their own sites.  Why would that be a problem, Sid?  Surely you don't won't someone to keep their work here when it may do better elsewhere, do you?  smile

          1. Uninvited Writer profile image81
            Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I deleted two that I had already published elsewhere.

          2. sid_candid profile image61
            sid_candidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I understand Randy that all hubber own their content and if they find more lucrative venues they can move it but I haven't deleted a single hub. I don't have my own site anyway and I am worrying that has hubpages lost its potential as some of the best hubbers have deleted hundreds of hubs.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well, if some are deleting what they consider less than satisfactory articles, then this would only help the quality of HP, wouldn't it?  And like UW, some may be deleting duplicate content. 

              I do understand your fears, though.  Desperate times call for desperate measures, as the old saying goes.  smile  Many seem to be running around like a chicken with it's head cut off!  It will settle down eventually.  I hope!  smile

              1. sid_candid profile image61
                sid_candidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I understand people deleting hubs to improve their overall hub profile and hubpages as a whole. But I have seen a top hubber deleting 300 hubs. I can't explain this. They were one of the top earners of hubpages so can't believe they had 300 low quality hubs which they needed to delete.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Obviously, they found a better place for them.  This is one of the main benefits of writing here.  If you get a better offer, or want to use your hubs on your own site, you can do so.

                  I lost over 100 articles on another site when I was banned for blowing the whistle on them.  The other site refuses to take them down or pay me for their use, so if I try to use them elsewhere it will be duplicate content. It isn't unusual for hubbers to delete their entire account, so don't worry about these Hub deletions too much. smile

          3. Brie Hoffman profile image80
            Brie Hoffmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Where are they going?

    2. Barbara Kay profile image86
      Barbara Kayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      One thing about the internet is that everything is constantly changing. If you give it some time, Hubpage results might go back to their former position in Google.

    3. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Several reasons, and most of them are nothing to fret about.

      1.  Hubs with little text and lots of Amazon ads now break the new "50 words per capsule" rule.  Some Hubbers have decided they're not worth the effort to fix up, because they may never recover - their time has passed.  Nelle Hoxie, for instance, has deleted all her Hubs in that style.  However, she has hundreds more Hubs in other styles under different names - she's not going anywhere!

      2. Even experienced Hubbers had some Hubs which were duplicate content, when it was allowed.  Now it's not, so those Hubs have to go.

      3.  The change has prompted Hubbers to take a hard look at their portfolio and delete Hubs which have never done well.  That has to be a good thing.

      Personally, I'm working on number 3.  All my income comes from less than half my Hubs.  Why am I keeping the other half? I'm going to move them to other sites and see if they do any better.

      1. Rosie2010 profile image75
        Rosie2010posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you, Marisa, your comment is very helpful to me in understanding why some hubs are being deleted.

    4. RonPare profile image74
      RonPareposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am sure much of it is duplicate content from the Authors other blogs, websites etc... Lots of work as the duplicate status unpublishes it automatically.

      1. profile image0
        Nelle Hoxieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        One of the worst featurs of the HP forums, is idyll speculations with no factual basis. Of the hundreds of hubs I have deleted - none have been duplicate content.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Me either. sad

        2. RonPare profile image74
          RonPareposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          One of the worst parts of ego is thinking everyones talking about you. I apologize for taking part in the conversation.

    5. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sid:
      I delete hubs after I've re-worked them want to offer them back for a re-read.
      I just re-name the old re-worked hub and offer it again for reconsideration.
      I haven't yet, dumped a hub that I took the time and intellectual effort to write and publish...and I probably never will.
      I'm getting better responses to them the 2nd time around.
      Qwark

    6. profile image0
      ProductInfoSourceposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I haven't read the entire thread but wanted to answer this specific question.

      The site, as a whole, is probably not going to see a "bounce-back" since it was not the site that was penalized.  It was an algorithm change, not a penalization.

      I pulled down all of my hubs to repurpose them on my own domains.  I owned about 160 product-related hubs.

      My opinion is that if I have to engage in backlinking activities to get my hubs ranked (something I didn't have to do before), why not expend that energy on my own domains?

      1. IzzyM profile image87
        IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I wouldn't be so sure that the site is not going to 'bounce back' at some time. The search results are awful. A simple tweak could put us back there. Ehow and brand companies are dominating the results and let's face it, that is not what searchers want. There simply isn't enough information given in those results.

        1. profile image0
          ProductInfoSourceposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Fair enough.  I guess it's always possible.  However, using history (Squidoo) as a guide, it would seem unlikely in the near term.

          Regardless of what we think, Google indicates they are happy with the changes.  Sure, they could be BS'ing but if they didn't like the results, the could just as easily have rolled back the changes.

          If they thought they made a mistake by including HP in the slap, they would have 'tweaked' it by now.  However, the fact that HP was one of the most affected sites indicates to me that this is EXACTLY the type of site (content farm) they were going after.  That would lead me to believe there is no "recovery" on the horizon anytime soon.

          At the end of the day, the slap is probably a good thing for me (aside from the money that I'm no longer making) since it forces me to do what I should have been doing all along and that is focusing on my own sites.

    7. Saviya Marquis profile image61
      Saviya Marquisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps they are deleting hubs because they are reviewing them and finding that they are not quite up to their standards. I've thrown out many of my own writings simply because I didn't like them. It didn't really matter what other people thought of them. It's about feeling like you did your personal best.

    8. tritrain profile image76
      tritrainposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sometimes it's less stressful to just delete than try to figure out what and why parts of a Hub are "sub-standard".

    9. LiamBean profile image89
      LiamBeanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I delete hubs that are time sensitive and no longer relevant. I posted a number of hubs on job opportunities that no longer exist. It seemed silly (and I felt guilty) to have people continue to visit the hubs in question when they were no longer relevant.

    10. vietnamvet68 profile image61
      vietnamvet68posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      we are deleting the best hubs and moving them elsewhere., because if you haven't noticed HP is dying and it is DOOMED.

  2. 2uesday profile image85
    2uesdayposted 6 years ago

    I do not delete a hub without thinking about it but sometimes it seems the right thing for me to do.

    I have to admit that I had over 200 hubs and have deleted some and just unpublished others while I decide what to do with them.  I have removed a few with Amazon products as they did not seem worth re-working.

    Eventually I may remove some or all of my creative writing hubs but I am still 'mulling' that over. As for the other hubs, if I find my hubs look too cluttered with ads then that may influence my decision. I think the appearance of my hubs helps my traffic and I spent time and effort on the layouts.

    As I produced more hubs I became gradually dissatisfied with the 'muddle' of my having several niches, plus the creative writing and the product hubs. So all the changes have made me more aware of this.

    However I have to admit that the recent changes have also made me Hub hop more and what I see there on occasions makes me feel as if I am in a different place to the one I thought I was 18 months ago. Plus, I just cannot summon up the enthusiasm to create new hubs as I feel like I am standing on shifting sand. That's my reasons other hubbers will feel differently, which is good.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image80
      Brie Hoffmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Shifting sand...that's exactly what everything feels like.  I haven't written anything in weeks just because I feel so defeated with all the changes.  It feels like I've poured so much into HP and now all the air has gone out of the balloon.

      1. tritrain profile image76
        tritrainposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well said.

        Maybe we just need a break and see where the dust settles.

  3. Howard S. profile image84
    Howard S.posted 6 years ago

    Another angle is all the broken links that behavior creates. I try to link to other hubs. If they are deleted, I assume that breaks my links, which would lower my score and cause me more work. I guess I'll have to check on that.

    1. Sally's Trove profile image86
      Sally's Troveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You bring up a good point. I've never seen the broken link notice appear on my account page unless that broken link was a link to a page outside HP. Does anyone know if links to deleted Hubs are flagged in the same way?

      1. 2uesday profile image85
        2uesdayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think they probably do as I have had a 'broken link' show up for a link to one of my own hubs that I had unpublished.

        1. Sally's Trove profile image86
          Sally's Troveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for that...now I know I don't have to go through each of my Hubs looking for internal broken links. smile

      2. lyndre profile image82
        lyndreposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes.
        I had a link to one of Ralwus's hubs and when he closed his account the broken link symbol appeared on my hub.

        1. Sally's Trove profile image86
          Sally's Troveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks to you and 2uesday.

      3. Poetic Muse profile image60
        Poetic Museposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes they are. I just came across that this morning. One of my favorite poets had deleted her original account.  She made a new account later, but all my old links to her now appear as broken so I'm deleting them as I find them.

    2. ajcor profile image58
      ajcorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      After going through my hubs I also have found quite a few hubbers have deleted their hubs and in so doing broken their (internal links) links to my hubs...so have had to reword the hole they left - I hope they have made the right decision to delete their hubs!
      However in saying this, it is their work and they have every right to do as they wish with their own work...not like some sites where when you wish to remove your own work from they make you leave it up as they now - under their rulings - appear to own your work....

      1. WannaB Writer profile image95
        WannaB Writerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Which sties have that policy? I haven't explored them all -- especially the article sites. I just want to make sure I go into new places with my eyes open, since it's easy to miss a line or two that's relevant in TOS legalese.

        1. lrohner profile image85
          lrohnerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          A lot of sites, like Helium.com, "share" lifetime rights. In other words, you continue to 'own' the work via copyright, but they retain lifetime rights to publish/republish the work.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Just an update on Helium.com.and their new TOS. They are now claiming exclusive rights to all articles submitted, excluding CW, for one year.  Now, duplicate content is taboo there where once it was encouraged.

            Their upfront payments have practically vanished, causing havoc among many members there.  They still have no interest in showing the members what their page views actually are, or how exactly they pay them. 

            Helium is doomed to die a slow agonizing death.  Long live the Sting!

            1. Uninvited Writer profile image81
              Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I think I should just say goodbye to my over $24 there. I will never make $25... I was just handing in long enough to reach payout but it's been 3 years...

              1. profile image0
                lynnechandlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Dang, UW, I'd take em down, save them and when they are no longer indexed pub em somewhere else.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Helium doesn't allow deletions, Lynne.  But I think they are considering letting some "trusted" members delete a few per month now.  The new exclusivity rule is causing problems as some of the Marketplace articles are only paying $5 to the lucky chosen one and $1 to a couple of lucky also-rans. 

                  Even this is slated to change soon with the runners-up to receive nothing but give up exclusive rights for a year.  During this time Helium can do anything they wish with the material and give the writer nothing but their version of page views if they so choose.  None of their revenue share info is open for inspection.  You have to just trust them!  lollollol

                  1. profile image0
                    lynnechandlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow, glad I got out when I did then because I was allowed to delete all my writing there.

              2. waynet profile image47
                waynetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I don't like helium! it makes your voice squeaky!

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Your wheel too!  smile

              3. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Your articles make Helium much more than they make you, Susan. I was making a few bucks there before being banned, so I know they've made a fair amount on my articles since they haven't had to share any of it with me anymore.   

                They've also sold one of my short stories now found on Kindle.  A disreputable company which deserves to fail.  (too harsh?)  smile

                1. ajcor profile image58
                  ajcorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  now that is really rude - isn't there something you can do legally?...I am to put it mildly - gobsmacked...

              4. Marisa Wright profile image94
                Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Are you rating articles so you have a rating star? 

                On days when you have no rating star, you don't earn a cent.  You need to rate 10-20 articles a month to keep a star.  It is worth it because the articles do earn a few pennies - in fact, they now quote a figure of $3 to $5 per thousand page views, which is pretty good.  The reality on Helium is they only get 3 or 4 million visitors a month, compared to HubPages 30 million, so it's the lack of traffic that's the problem rather than the rate of pay.

        2. ajcor profile image58
          ajcorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Helium is one I know of and I have heard of others  - will get back to you when what I have heard is actually fact...

  4. Lisa HW profile image82
    Lisa HWposted 6 years ago

    Even before the big "shake up" I'd been trimming out a few Hubs regularly, but only enough that my number of Hubs didn't get too close the the flat 300.  I'd delete until the number of them got too low - then I'd write and add a few more.  The "delete-ees" were either stuff I'd written when I was new, or else stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time.  I had a handful of duplicate-contents that I'd posted when I was new, but that I thought made my profile have better stuff in it than the stuff I wrote because I didn't know what a Hub was supposed to be.  Since the shake up I've deleted those.  Other than that, I'm not deleting anything because my stuff on here has been "spare-time", what-I-feel-like-writing, stuff. 

    Whether it would be better moved is something that depends on any direction HP takes.  Some stuff could serve my purposes better (or even be incorporated into my "serious" writing) by being moved.  Some might serve "overall HP-site aims" better (and therefore me, as well) better by being moved. It's all case-by-case, because even though I've usually aimed to produce "decent quality" writing, how casual or whether it would be qualify as "professional done" in some places (lots of first-person, and assimilated-knowledge Hubs here) would depend exactly on whatever place was involved.

    For now, in view of the fact that I don't really know what to be doing or not doing these days (and to somehow have a sense of grounding), I've gone back to my original thing that my HP writing is, in fact, my spare-time writing and, if I write now (while I'm waiting to see what direction things take) at all, I'm just writing what I feel like writing.

    My big "mental challenge" about knowing what to do right now is that I've had Hubs that earned (and earned really well) without my ever trying.  I've got some that have earned pennies.  Then some started to pick up (nothing big) to the point where my earnings had grown because of volume.  In fact, I'd just started getting to where the combined earnings for a lot of those previously non-earners were catching up with some of my bigger earners; and I was thinking that was good (because I figured a big earner or two may not always do so well, and I was seeing signs that if/when that happened it wouldn't affect my monthly payment too much).  I always knew I could be earning more with those low-earners/no-earners if I'd done a few SEO-type things with them but, again - spare-time thing.

    As it is now, I'm seeing more potential for those low-earners/no-earners (at least as long as I continue with the minimal-to-no SEO efforts of my HP past).  I've seen a major, major, drop with the earlier, better, earners; and I'm not sure how permanent that is or isn't (or whether those Hubs would do better somewhere else, or under "the old plan/program").

    As it is now, I really don't think a lot of those Hubs with improved earnings would do any better anywhere else.  Some are just too "casual" in terms of writing.  What I don't know, though, is whether those same casual-type Hubs would continue to earn if they weren't among a bunch of my other, more "serious", higher-quality writing, Hubs (so I don't know whether moving the better-piece-of-writing Hubs would hurt my earnings on here very much).  I've always aimed for decent grammar, and I've never knowingly done anything spammy; so it isn't as if the actual wording of those "lower quality" Hubs is less than the more "serious-writing" ones.  It's just all about level of polish and professionalism.  Even with that, though, some of the more folksy-type of Hubs are actually ones that reach readers in a meaningful way - so that goes back to the "what is quality on this particular site these days" question.

    So, for now and for any Hubs that have survived earlier trimming efforts (or that don't survive future efforts based only on my earlier reasons for deleting), everything's staying where it is until I see what happens (with guidelines, with "official word", with earnings, etc. etc.)  For now, it looks like they'll earn a decent chunk per month.  If the Ad Sense earnings go up (even to my earlier, all-time lows), I'll be earning about what (give or take) I was earning before.  If the Ad Sense earnings stay super low, I guess I'll continue to be looking at a "bird-in-the-hand" kind of scenario, and having to decide if it's too much of a waste to hang onto that bird in the hand.

    Ironically, the big shake-up has forced me to have to stop straddling the fence between being earnings-minded and being enjoyment-writing-minded", and swing the legs over to the "enjoyment-writing" side of the fence.  What's that done, however, is make me lean toward not even worrying about pictures (or whatever other capsules are still OK) and just write without worrying about coming up with pictures or videos that don't "come naturally" with the text (because I've never been here to be "all involved with layout", so that aspect of Hubbing has never been one of my "big things" anyway.  On the other side, though, if I go with the "enjoyment writing and nothing else thing", I'll be more inclined to writing more "serious" stuff, but I don't know whether de-emphasizing the things like pictures, on even writing that wouldn't necessarily call for it, would result in lower performance on here (in one way or another) or would be counter to what HP sees as the whole idea about what a Hub is.  (????)

    Since the shake up (actually, in the few weeks following it, and as a result of not really knowing where I should be aiming), I've gone with writing only a few "do-whatever" Hubs just when I've felt like writing.  (Well, those and a few Hub-length forum posts - but I don't want a profile full of Hubs about Hub-writing.  hmm  hmm  )   For now, I'm in a holding pattern.

    Also ironically, perhaps:  As a result of the shake-up,  I'm in the process of pulling in every piece of online writing I have (and retain rights to, and when it won't cause conflict with any TOS on any site), and making it all "all the more duplicate content" by posting it (at least temporarily) on a blogger blog (no ads).  I'll figure out what to do with it next later.  If nothing else, my stuff looks more professional on there than on any writing site, so I can maybe use it as part of my "more serious" writing portfolio.

  5. Patty Inglish, MS profile image88
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 6 years ago

    I unpulished half a dozen only to update, look for other links to replace broken links, etc.

    1. KCC Big Country profile image85
      KCC Big Countryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I did the same.  I unpublished about a dozen that I'm going to revamp.  Then, I'll likely do it to another set.  Just some badly needed spring cleaning.

  6. NateSean profile image79
    NateSeanposted 6 years ago

    Some I just deleted because I was being flagged for BS reasons and I decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep them up. Bottom line.

  7. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    I deleted 20 sales hubs because of non-production for the first year of use. It didn't work out the way I wanted and the URLS were too specific to keep.

    Many people are taking their stuff to a different venue. It's understood, they must do what they think is best for them.

    I did what I thought I had to do. smile

  8. Richieb799 profile image59
    Richieb799posted 6 years ago

    I don't think they are all taking stuff elsewhere, Ryan Kett is generally cleaning up and doing his part to make Hubpages fair better with Google as far as I understand.
    I don't think Hubpages is losing its potency, It will just take a while for the better hubbers to recover, Im keeping the faith, my earnings are back up last few days

  9. Poetic Muse profile image60
    Poetic Museposted 6 years ago

    I had over 200 hubs that got blacklisted with the new 50 words per ad capsule rule. Hubpages was unpublishing them, so I am racing to either unpublish them myself first, so I don't have to run each one past a staff editor when I republish them, deleting them, or fixing them.  My poetry account (this name here) had 82 hubs that got flagged, because by nature poetry is shorter than essays or prose, right? This Draconian regime of Hubpages has gone over the cliff in my opinion.  I bet many are deleting their hubs because this site isn't user friendly anymore except for people that write magazine style articles.

    A hub can be great as a whole package with photos, links, RSS feeds and other items, without having a lot of written words. In this new age, only the verbose amongst us are getting a pat on the head.  That's because the new Google algorithms are all about the words, and nothing else seems to matter. I think that is sad.

    1. Sally's Trove profile image86
      Sally's Troveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Could it be that your poetry Hubs were flagged not because they were short on words but because they were miscategorized?

      There's a lengthy forum thread here about poetry Hubs, but the end news is that as long as poetry is categorized as such, it's not going to be penalized for brevity.

      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70209#top

      1. Poetic Muse profile image60
        Poetic Museposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That may have been true once, but the 50 words per ad capsule seems to apply to poetry as well. For the most part that's why most of mine were flagged. I had to add more words and remove half the ad blocks.

        1. Aficionada profile image90
          Aficionadaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Were yours in the poetry category?

          I know that the thread that ST linked is a long one, but it is a good one, and worth reading.  I was pretty sure that even though the length of poetry hubs was discussed there, the end result was as Sally's Trove says.  Before you make any more changes, it would be good to reread what the staff has written in the various threads, and then if you have any questions contact the staff directly.

          EDIT:  Here's a link to one post on guidelines from Paul Deeds:
          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70209?p … ost1530525

    2. Lisa HW profile image82
      Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Counting myself among the "verbose", I can tell you that losing two or three hundred dollars a month (or more) in earnings doesn't feel like a "pat on the head".   People with a lot of well written, succinct, but very SEO-focused, Hubs haven't been feeling all that patted on the head in recent days either.

      HP is now (as far as I can tell) faced with getting into the better graces of Google and/or doing well in spite of not being in those better graces.  It looks to me like all kinds of efforts (from all kinds of people) are being made to one or both of the aims, so I think HP is still very "user friendly".   Personally, I'd agree with you about some Hubs that don't have all that many words can be good Hubs if they have the right stuff on them.  Then again, it's pretty reasonable for a site that calls itself "a writers' platform" would expect x amount of writing on each Hub.

      I don't know...   I don't see responding/making adjustments to something that took place outside HubPages as "Draconian".  If it makes you feel any better, I took most of my Amazon capsules off (pat-on-the-head that I didn't get, number 2   smile  ).

    3. Ladybird33 profile image40
      Ladybird33posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I would agree with you completely and it is sad.  Writing online is not as attractive as it use to be.  My best to all in your journey.

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think that hubpages has the perfect opportunity to segregate poetry to a subdomain or new domain (they can have poetpages.com for free if they want, I own that) and actually make something out of possessing the largest collection of poets on the web.

        1. Ladybird33 profile image40
          Ladybird33posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for commenting on this, helpful!  As you always are.

  10. profile image0
    Ghost32posted 6 years ago

    Ah, the benefits of being a born loner!  Hadn't known about "mass hub deletions" at all.

    That said, though:  Any time there's change in ANY organization, be it HP, a church group, the military, whatever--there will ALWAYS be a percentage of "defections" that accompany the shift. 

    Personally, I've got faith in the HP crew.  If something isn't working, they'll eventually figure it out and fix it. 

    Goes back to my old multi level marketing days, when for 20 years I represented a great company...until it eventually imploded, that is.  Nothing is forever.

    But lots of "broken wing" types, distributors always fearing the worst, would from time to time call me with their concerns.  Paraphrased to fit HubPages, my response would be something like:

    "I've got two questions and one answer.  First question:  Does the HP product WORK--that is, are we as authors provided with a workable platform?"

    For me, the answer to that would be YES.

    "Question #2:  When you do earn a paycheck, is the check good and do they send it to you on time?

    Again:  YES.

    "Then...all the rest is SMOKE!"  smile

    1. Rosie2010 profile image75
      Rosie2010posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As a new hubber, I thank you for your positive opinion.  It's disheartening to read that some established hubbers have been dissatisfied with Hubpages.  But they got to do what is best for them... that I understand.

      So thank you Ghost32, for believing in HP.  I am really a newbie in writing and this is the only place I know, and I love it here.

      1. Lisa HW profile image82
        Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I'd like to "get it on record" (at least on this on "thread-record here") that I've never been at all dissatisfied with HubPages.  I've always been dissatisfied with a whole lot of my own Hubs.  These days (since the shake-up) I'm still not in the least bit dissatisfied with HubPages.  My thing is that, at least for now, I don't know whether to keep doing the same stuff I've always been doing on here or stop writing anything that's written in a more casual style, and only write "professional and polished", objective, articles on this site. 

        I've got stuff that would meet criteria for "essay" or "opinion piece", and I've got personal-experience stuff that I may have written with the idea of sharing what I've learned from an experience (so it isn't as "purely personal" as something like, "I hate my job."    Still, it's obviously personal and first-person.  Then, too, I don't know whether it would make sense to any of the more search-engine friendly stuff since search-engine "standards" have changed.  hmm

        For me, this has been my "write-anything" site.  Unlike people who have different accounts for different types of writing, I've been dumping a big mish-mosh of all kinds of writing in together on here.  Now, I just need to figure out whether I ought to do some sorting out, pick a side ("casual writing" or "professional, polished, articles only"), or (again) just keep doing what I've always been doing.  hmm

        I don't know about anyone else's being dissatisfied; but, for me, "voicing a dilemma I've facing" as a result of changes isn't the same as being dissatisfied.  It's just saying what the latest dilemma/challenge is for someone who wants his stuff to measure up to standards but who also wants to keep earning reasonably well.  This is a great place to write as far as writing sites go.   My personal "issue" is that I've pretty much always felt kind of suspended between the "earner/money-focused" writers here and the "here-just-to-write-regardless-of-earnings" writers here.  Recent changes have just highlighted a need to better define my own efforts here.   That kind of thing is going happen any time someone has built up some writing and/or has spent enough time somewhere that inevitable changes have taken place.  I'm fine with it and REALLY  don't want anyone to think that addressing any latest "dilemma"  is a sign of dissatisfaction or is a complaint. 

        I just posted the above "discussion" because I haven't seen anyone bringing up the effects of the changes from that angle.  There's been plenty of discussion from the "business Hubbers", and plenty from, or about, the "poet-hubbers".  Nothing much from the "non-descript" (either who earn well or don't earn much)  Hubbers like me.   hmm

        My concern (not that it's really my business) is that there may be a lot of Hubbers with the same kind of questions/dilemma that I have (because of mixed Hub styles) who may not realize that other Hubbers don't quite know what they should be doing right now, who may feel like they're the only ones who have these questions, and who may delete Hubs unnecessarily (or unwisely).   hmm

        1. profile image0
          Judowolfposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Lisa, I am a newbie and really did not get into the old rules on HP, and now they have new rules. I am in your situation regarding writing polished professional posts or as I refer to them life experience posts.I think life experience if written well will show my life experience and people will benefit from them. The money angle is something I still get confused on, but oh well. Every organization in the world experiences change and HP is no different. Change scares the hell out of people and some will leave  while others feel picked on. People should not delete their hubs because of the new rules, only if they considered deleting them previously. Beside, cleaning house once every year is common practice. Best of luck on your decision.
          Thank you.
          Judowolf

          1. Lisa HW profile image82
            Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Judowolf, good to know I'm not alone in my (relatively minor) wheel-spinning over some Hubs.  (It's also kind of good that you didn't have the chance to get too "all tied up with" the old way things were being done.  It sure is kind of messy for some of us right now.  smile )

  11. LelahKimball profile image79
    LelahKimballposted 6 years ago

    Lisa, you’re not alone.  I’ve never paid any attention to anything I write here.  I have a huge mixed up pile of hubs, and I’m OK with that.  It surprises me greatly how some of them perform.  I did not start out here to earn money, although I wouldn’t turn any down. 

    I’ve been all over the place career wise.  There are lots of threads tying it all together, but the average person cannot see how it all fits.  When I came to HP two years ago, I wanted to start building my writing skills again—I had long been neglecting them and have had many people encouraging me to start writing again.  People who are in the industry so I wasn’t going to ignore it fully.  I just felt that I have been out of the game so long, I wasn’t sure I could do it anymore.  I was also feeling it could be a wonderful way to work while staying home with my kiddos.  That’s another story though.  I just wanted to start getting words out until I found my rhythm.

    Well the short of it is, after two months of scattered writing of a handful of figure-out-what-HubPages-is-about writing, one of my sons special needs really became super time consuming.

    And, then, SURPRISE, another baby.  Anyhow, that meant I don’t think I even signed into HP for close to two years.  But, there were little bits of income coming around and I was getting a handle back on life.  So, here I am again.  Just getting words out.  Not really worrying about how it all fits.  I am a bit more interested in the money aspect this time.

    I’m not sure what all the shake-up is, still trying to figure that one out, but I can say, I had strong Google traffic to my hubs before (the majority of where my traffic came from) and it is still equal.  Maybe not caring kept me under the radar.

    1. Lisa HW profile image82
      Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Lelah, it's good to know I"m not alone.   The big "shake up" is a messy affair, but some people, and some Hubs, aren't being equally affected.  smile  (Baby surprise:   nice kind of surprise, though.  Congratulations.  smile  )

  12. Uninvited Writer profile image81
    Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago

    Not to be self promoting or anything but I just wrote a new hub. I have deleted some but I'm still writing.

  13. Richieb799 profile image59
    Richieb799posted 6 years ago

    I don't know why everyone is panicking, I haven't joined the Hubpages Revenue program yet, even though I had an invite, Ive only just passed the Adsense threshhold this month after a 1/4 decline in earnings last month and I don't want my earnings to drop there where I won't get paid at all

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who is panicking? I am dealing with the new reality. Some of us actually make money here. I still do, but am out around $4k a month and busy working to recover that. Just because you did not/do not/will not make any money - doesn't mean no one else did/does.

      1. Richieb799 profile image59
        Richieb799posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. RonPare profile image74
          RonPareposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Don't worry Richie, our measly monthly check is nothing compared to his  $4000/month.

      2. vietnamvet68 profile image61
        vietnamvet68posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LMAOATWTTB

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I doubt that you would lose any money, although you might have to wait for payouts.  As I understand it, HP has arranged that the ad program will only be displayed when adsense ads aren't paying enough.

      I have not heard anyone say that their total income from both is down from adsense only.  Rather, everyone seems to agree that the total is up.  Adsense is down, making a longer payout period, but the ad program more than makes up for it.

      If you have made payout this month, it might be a good time to put the ad program into effect.  You've already earned the payout, so it won't go away and you can check out the package that way.

      1. Richieb799 profile image59
        Richieb799posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          One of the "problems" I've had is actually knowing whether the HP program is making up for lost adsense as there was very little time between Panda and getting the ad program.  I never really found out what adsense would produce after Panda, except that the income per click went way down.  I think it has, but can't truly know for sure.

          It seems to me that Adsense is on the rocks because of both lost traffic and low CPC, but you are in a much better position than I to tell that for sure.  The Ad program seems to more than make up for low CPC, (plus it would seem that HP has had it running for months with more normal CPC and would not introduce it if it didn't make up for "robbing" adsense clicks at the higher CPC) but only more normal traffic and time will actually tell the tale.  Don't forget too that the Ad program pays at $50.

          1. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Me too, Wilderness.  My combined HP/Adsense income for this month is a fraction of what I'd normally make.  Jason was suggesting that if we want to experiment, it's OK to switch off the HP program temporarily - we won't lose access to it.  I may do that next month.

            1. Sufidreamer profile image80
              Sufidreamerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I might think about experimenting with turning the new ad program off, once I hit payout.

              It isn't actually doing that badly, but the rate of exchange of dollars into Euros is very poor at the moment. smile

              1. IzzyM profile image87
                IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I experimented a few days ago by turning it off. I'm going to just miss adsense payout this month, so I thought if I maybe turned the HP ads off, my adsense might climb. It didn't. I'd planned to turn it off for a week, but after less than 2 days I caved in and turned it back on again.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It's a problem, isn't it?  I had thought about turning it off to see if my CPC stayed as high as it is (that number had gotten really pitiful), but as I understand it that number has probably risen as a direct result of the ad program.

                  And my adsense had already gotten so low (pre Ad program) that even a week wouldn't tell me much.  One good day would throw off the average too much to get any reasonable feel for it.

              2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You have to remember that adsense converts dollar earnings into Euros as well. I will combine it all at the end of the month, switch the HP ads off for next month and compare the two.

                It is hard to tell what is going on right now, because the traffic sources changed so drastically - and are still changing - google definitely rolled something back a few days ago - it may be necessary to redo some hubs and aim them at HP ads and adsense instead of Amazon/ebay. My eBay click values have dropped so badly, I may need to take any eBay capsules off and either leave them with adsense only or switch to Amazon, in case they jeopardize my epn account.

                What fun! big_smile

                1. Marisa Wright profile image94
                  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  That was my thinking too.



                  Odd how it varies from Hubber to Hubber.  My eBay click values haven't changed at all, though I've made fewer sales - but my Amazon sales have disappeared (one sale this month so far !!!).

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I think it depends on volumes. If you have 100 clicks and I have 1000 - I am going to see a change in values sooner than you do, because they average them out based on activity and sales over a number of clicks. Not saying that is how many clicks either of us have seen - but you get the idea?

                    I am pretty sure the HP program is going to favor high volume, low value traffic over targeted high value, low volume traffic. Nothing wrong with that per se - if you can write celebrity break-up, WOW Gold type articles - not so good if you are into financial advice. Amazon is running at about 20% of previous.

                    The rules have changed and we need to adapt. I am not doing anything hasty, but I can see I am going to need to change my approach here.

                    Having said that - google search results are HORRIBLE right now - every search I do - regardless results in crappy ehow advice and Amazon sales pages. My hope is they will have to back off some.

                  2. EmpressFelicity profile image80
                    EmpressFelicityposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    My Amazon sales income has dropped by over 75% compared to February.  I've sold 11 items this month, when I would normally expect to sell in excess of 30.   

                    As for the HP ad program, I'm not too encouraged so far - I've made under $1 a day since I switched it on a few days ago, which combined with a total Adsense of about $1 for the same period, isn't exactly stellar.

                    I think I will do what you and Mark are doing and keep HP ads on for a month, then switch them off for a month and compare.

            2. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, Marissa, my combined total is a fraction, but a large fraction.  I'm running at something just over Feb. figures but still shy of that from Dec.  And I don't think the holidays really affected my Dec. Adsense.  Amazon yes, but not so much Adsense.

      2. Richieb799 profile image59
        Richieb799posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah like I said, this is the problem I am faced with, I need that monthly payout at the moment. Glad I get my Adsense money each month smile

    3. Poetic Muse profile image60
      Poetic Museposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I recommend joining that.  It helped shore up the money I lost from the new Google changes.

  14. Mark Ewbie profile image84
    Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago

    I wonder if instead of deleting our own hubs it might be quicker and more beneficial to the Hubpages if we could delete other people's.

    There would be less holding back and considering whether you can make it work, need less adverts, more text, whatever.  Just search for someone, check out their stuff and delete all but the essential and non competing pages.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      This is the best idea I have heard yet. I would guesstimate HP need to delete half the site - as long as they delete the "right" half - we should be good to go. lol

    2. Lisa HW profile image82
      Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      OR, think up which letters of the alphabet you are your favorites and which are not - and then delete 50% of the Hubs of anyone whose named starts with a letter you don't like.    That'd clean up a lot of stuff.

  15. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    I've started my own cooking site, so I've moved a handful of recipes to it - along with lots of original recipes.

  16. soni2006 profile image44
    soni2006posted 6 years ago

    I have not deleted a single hub of mine and my earnings have not effected after the google algorithm change, as the income I will earn this month from HP ad program and adsense combined together is the same income I earned last month from adsense. So I am at no profit no loss situation and one more thing, I have just published a single hub since last 57 days.

  17. Poetic Muse profile image60
    Poetic Museposted 6 years ago

    To Mark:
    I can't even envision making $4000 a month here, much less making so much that I could be out $4000 dollars from what I usually earned. I'm sure my boyfriend would quit nagging me for wasting my time here if I was earning $4000 a month, much less however much it is that you earn. Sure hope the google gods start smiling on you again soon.

  18. profile image0
    ryankettposted 6 years ago

    Richieb799 wrote:

    "I do make money on here, every month I get paid. Did you read what I wrote or just skim over?? I know who makes money on here, I've been talking to Ryan Kett for 16 months. I also make more money on other sites than here"

    I would just like to clarify that I have not disclosed the earnings of any other Hubber to Richieb799 at any stage in my existance. Any hubber who has told me their earnings in confidence, which is probably about seven or eight, can rest assured that I have not passed this information on in any way, shape or form, to any hubber or non-hubber including RichieB.

    If I have ever disclosed anybodies earnings it has been as a direct result of a forum post or Hubpage which has clearly been written with the intention of sharing this information publicly.

    Richie, I like you mate, but please be careful to ensure that your posts closely represent actual events, otherwise this stuff can be very damaging to me. Particularly as somebody who runs a multi-user site that is trusted, and can be trusted, to protect information regarding other peoples successful keywords and niches.

    I know a lot about what some of the big guys earn, but I have yet to share confidential information about earnings with anybody whatsoever. A few hubbers like to share their earnings publicly, Misha and Mark Knowles perhaps, but many others now don't - me included. I let slip very recently, but prior to that I hadn't disclosed my earnings for 7 months.

    This is what happened when I let slip the other day:

    http://www.best-reviewer.com/how-much-m … e-3175.htm

    And what will subsequently happen is hundreds of copied hubs notices.

    1. Laura Marie profile image3
      Laura Marieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ryan your famous lol

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That article is also grossly inaccurate!

        I'm going to be requesting that it is removed, on the basis of it being entirely factually incorrect.

        They have taken my 6 months of earnings between September-February, and assumed that they can double it for my annual earnings. With no regard to the algorithm change which occured at the end of February, and with no consideration to November and December being the most lucrative months of the year.

        And, if it isn't removed, I will serve a legal notice. It was also nice of them to put the space back in my username hmm

        If the taxman got hold of that, it could bring me serious issues, my tax return will be submitted in a couple of weeks and it won't show $27000 of Hubpages earnings.

        Sadly, that would probably (just about) represent my total earnings for the tax year from all sources.

        1. Laura Marie profile image3
          Laura Marieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yeh i see where you are coming from!! $27k into pounds is not bad at all, but would be better if it was £27k rather than dollars. I reckon when you get excerptz and extractz into the top 20 000 (which I think you will) you will have no bother reaching £27k. Good luck to you.

          1. profile image0
            ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm sure if the algorithm didn't change I would have almost reached that on Hubpages NEXT tax year.... but it did change, so it does kinda make somebody telling the world that I make decent money suck about fifteen times more than it would have sucked if true smile

            1. Laura Marie profile image3
              Laura Marieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hopefully google will do another update in a few months and decide Hubpages is great again! Would certainly love traffic to return to pre-algo levels for all of us smile

              1. profile image0
                ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                That article has just been removed wink

                Edit: Oh, nope, it hasn't hmm

                1. IzzyM profile image87
                  IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Who put it up Ryan?

                  1. profile image0
                    ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Who knows, somebody who was lurking on here at the time, it was a week or so ago when that idiot came on bragging about getting $7 an article. Wouldn't be surprised if it were him, although it could me anybody.

                    I can envisage somebody knocking on my door with a baseball bat asking for protection money, my address is easily found through whois reports!

                    Truth is I'm pretty skint to be honest, it came at the wrong time really, I would have given it a wry smile if it were posted in December wink

          2. profile image0
            ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The point is that I earnt nowhere near $27000 in the past 12 months, I had a few months of good earnings and then the whole thing went pop.

            I would be very happy with $27000 from Hubpages this year, but the way things are going, and with Panda Global coming, I would take $18000 and wouldn't be suprised if I only took $15000!

            Excerptz will reach the top 20000 I reckon, but it has taken me four months to get that site even slightly moving, so Extractz will probably be one which works for me in 2012 smile

  19. sunforged profile image69
    sunforgedposted 6 years ago

    I would have to have a further understanding of how HP claims to be able to know if an adwords bid is higher?

    Hopefully, not the same technology that tells us our "Revenue Potential"

    For the software to have any actual conception of potential adsense click, it would have to consider the geolocation, past browsing history, ad slot and likelihood of click through.

    In short - there is no predictive technology for adsense. The best they could do is base it on an average in the category and that would not be a strong measurement for publishers who were previously accustomed to high click values since the average here is dropped by the 999,999,999 users who are poor/average performers in adsense.

    Plus , the dont know what OUR click values are, they only know from their impression and their overall epc is probably very, very low from the volume of poor performing topics in their account.

    I turned off Hp ads and saw a bounce back to pre-Panda click level - still slightly lower value per click. In my model, HP ads are only ok, Ill keep testing, but it looks like I do better running my own program.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Fair enough, I suppose it won't work for everybody, but it is doing OK for me.

      Although there must be a way of determining click value, hence the reason we can opt to allow other networks to compete on our ad spots through AdSense (rememeber when we opted into that?), I suppose the question is whether Hubpages could access that technology.

      1. sunforged profile image69
        sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I cant imagine a single reason why google would share its internal data with hubpages. Doubleclicks ability to compare bids between adnetworks that want to be include din their servers isnt related to HPs role as a third party publisher

        1. profile image0
          ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not internal data, but what about the basic data from the Google keyword tool? Estimated bid?

          1. sunforged profile image69
            sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            as before - that lacks the distinction of location, browsing history and the variance in our individual pricing.

            SOmething could be created that assumed the very best potential - but then that would bring us back to the existing "revenue potential" tool - which is likely keyword based and is worthless - I dont imagine HP's tool is very good at predictive analysis. Truthfully, such a toll would be worth more than the entire HP portfolio.

            They could retire now from the hush money that an accurate predictive tool would demand. Or sell the service to every large publisher on earth.

            From a company that is yet to implement basic pre-publsih filters? i dont think so

            1. profile image0
              ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough, although you can define the geographical location on the keyword tool right?

              At the end of the day, only you can know what is working for you, and only I can know what is working for me.

              I have sussed out that the HubAd program is working for me, probably due to one or two particular Hubpages (which you can guess, secretly).

              You just need to worry about what is working for you, which you already are doing of course smile

              Now, if HubAd could defined to be turned off and on on a hub-by-hub basis then we could have a REAL conversation, and really use it to our advantage, couldn't we?

              That way, you could leave it off of your important eBay hubs, I could work out whether it is a handful of hubs making me all this HubAd dosh.

              That is probably the real solution, irrespective of how they have programmed it. Just like Kontera, on or off, not all or nothing.

  20. sunforged profile image69
    sunforgedposted 6 years ago

    Im sure any publisher can work out how to make HPads work for them. A CPM ad program is not a new marvel and creating new content or repurposing/retitling old content to best optimize to it is not a mind boggler for me.

    Just pointing out that any Hp claims that they have a tool that can compare potential adsense ads cant be taken at face value, until they are either more forthcoming about the "hows" or they show more technical prowess in other basics.

    As of now , a 12 year old with an imacro program can autopost to HP all day and their revenue potential tool is about as accurate as rolling chicken bones.

    maybe its a reference to the original post - why ...hubs , and I would say its because experienced publishers are yet to be impressed by the Hp reaction and communication skills. Ive been waiting 36 hours to see 5 hubs that just needed a few amazon capsules removed to be republished. yet somehow, staff has time to be writing in a staff challenge?

    Im surprised that no one else is bothered by the conflict of interest that staff even writing hubs suggests. especially, considering all the asinine conspiracy theories always thrown around smile

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "Im sure any publisher can work out how to make HPads work for them. A CPM ad program is not a new marvel and creating new content or repurposing/retitling old content to best optimize to it is not a mind boggler for me."

      I thought it was pretty conclusive that the program isn't a CPM based program, it is in fact a solid mixture of impression and click based ads. With click ads we get paid much the same way as we do with AdSense, when somebody clicks.

      The 'CPM' bit is just a means of reporting, just like Google report the 'eCPM'.

      Although if people think that high traffic terms are working best, then it is probably easier than ever to make money. I'll try that then, see what happens.

      "Im surprised that no one else is bothered by the conflict of interest that staff even writing hubs suggests."

      Yes I have considered this before. But if they weren't writing hubs they could be building micro-sites, so it is definitely the more transparent way.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I must say I was surprised to see the staff challenge announcement.  It seemed very ill-timed when the HP team should be frantically busy doing other stuff.

      1. Maddie Ruud profile image78
        Maddie Ruudposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You'll notice that the moderation team are not committing to the challenge, as we have no time.  I have published a grand total of 1 Hub so far this calendar year, and that was only because my brain simply could not tolerate any more moderation.

        We are getting staff to chip in on the simplest of moderation tasks, but they do not have the necessary training to be doing the more complex work.  Bearing that in mind, I think that it's wonderful that some staff are taking time out of their personal lives to publish Hubs in the spirit of improving the quality on HubPages.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well, now that I know this thread is being monitored by staff, I'll ask a question, Maddie.  Most of the badly written hubs I find are in the "latest" hubs.  Most of the time they are written by new foreign writers without a firm grasp of the English language.

          Usually if one of their hubs is bad, they all are.  Why in the heck don't you guys make these folks submit a sample of their writing so we won't have to spend unnecessary time removing hubs which shouldn't ever be allowed to be published in the first place?  Is this such a complicated task to perform?  Or what is the deal?  smile

          I look forward to your response.

          The snake

          1. Maddie Ruud profile image78
            Maddie Ruudposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Part of our philosophy here at HubPages is to give people the benefit of the doubt.  We like to assume the best of people until they give us cause to feel otherwise.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Fine with me.  I won't bother flagging them if they are merely getting the benefit of the doubt at the expense of my time.  Thanks for clarifying HubPage's intentions.  It answers a lot of questions of which there's no need to ask now.

              1. IzzyM profile image87
                IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Randy we all got the benefit of the doubt when we started publishing.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  We speak the language from birth, Izzy.  Sure, there are some who can contribute well written articles despite English not being their native tongue, but I find them to be the exception, rather than the rule.

                  Besides, I would have no problem if ALL new writers were placed on probation before given free reign to publish. Old writers too, if that's what it takes to prevent some of the junk we have to sort through. 

                  Is it wrong to want to prevent articles, which may give HP a bad rep, from being published?  Isn't it harder to find them once they get through the door?  Unbelievable!  smile

                  1. IzzyM profile image87
                    IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I appreciate what you are saying. We just need to look at some of the stuff already on this site, both older and newly published. If, however, HP were to put in place some kind of system that vetted new hubbers, it would mean a direction change for them as well as perhaps become off-putting to those good new writers.
                    I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have started here in the first place if everything got vetted? It wouldn't have felt so welcoming and as an amateur I might have thought I wasn't good enough.
                    I can see pros and cons. There is a huge workload either way for the staff but I am glad that at last they have tightened up the rules about what they permit to stay published.

    3. Maddie Ruud profile image78
      Maddie Ruudposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ouch.  This hurts my heart.  Norah and I are putting in massive overtime, and neither of us, you notice, has been publishing a Hub a day.  Please see my response to Marisa's post above -- the moderation team is completely swamped right now.  We have no less than 1000 Hubs currently submitted for review, and only 2 of us who are qualified to sort through them.  I appreciate your frustration, but I humbly submit that you cannot fathom ours.

      1. sunforged profile image69
        sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I did not mean to hurt your heart, i did notice that many of you mentioned being to busy to participate, but qualifying my statement would have not helped me vent. smile

        Its obvious that you work hard.


        When mine come up in the queue just skip em, 48 hours of being unpublished will have killed them as they will have been reindexed as being "not found"

        1. Maddie Ruud profile image78
          Maddie Ruudposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wish I'd read this snarky comment before I went and sought out your Hubs for republication.  You know, you were given warning on these changes before they were enforced.  I myself had to go through all 250ish of my Hubs to correct for the same things, so it's not like I don't understand what that entails.

          1. sunforged profile image69
            sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I must be terrible at typing "sincere" as I meant that at face value.

            I really care less about the pittance those 5 articles may make or lose compared to making someone feel unappreciated, your effort are/were appreciated. smile I do think at an individual level staff interaction at this site is very impressive, it seems you just need more of you!

            I am highly critical and near impossible to please in matters of business, it works for me...but it prob comes off much harsher in text than I intend. I do appreciate your individual effort and often mention how staff response is reasonable and punctual when discussing hubpages

      2. profile image0
        ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You can't please all of the people all of time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. Many of us can appreciate that things aren't easy in the Hubpages office right now, and personally I can wait much longer than a month for the site to change the course that it has taken over 5 years. People should be more patience.

        But, I doubt that Sunforged actually subscribes to that theory, I noticed a clear shift in his feelings towards staff when his blog posts were censored. I don't know who did that, and whether that was an official Hubpages policy or the choice of one individual, but he was probably right to feel a bit murked by that. His comment could have been published but ignored. Irrespective of whether it was felt that his comment was counter-productive, he has offered his fair share to the community since he popped onto the scene.

        Hope that your thingy went well wink

        1. Maddie Ruud profile image78
          Maddie Ruudposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I'm drawing a complete blank on this.  In any case, if there are any hard feelings, I'd prefer that people address them with us directly.



          Thank you.  The swelling is finally starting to go down, though we won't know if it's helped for another 5-10 days.

          I've really got nothing else to say, so I'm going to excuse myself from this thread.  Just couldn't take certain statements lying down.

  21. sunforged profile image69
    sunforgedposted 6 years ago

    The majority of the networks in the program only sell CPM advertising and HP did press releases with the names of the networks. Ive peeked through the on page code and can generally see how it targets and which networks its serving.

    Any click activity is probably limited mostly to adsense. I assume clicks have some purpose but most of the ads are branding/not offers - they are designed to be seen not necessarily interacted with.

    But, i say just for ease of conversation, just as they use it for ease of reporting.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you genuinely think that the more impressions = more money with the HubAd program, then you and me both know that we could rinse out on this.

      I will be starting a new account with "Who is the wife of....", "how tall is....", etc as titles lol

      1. sunforged profile image69
        sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        By category

        - the code allows for category and hubber targetting

        so 1000 impressions is doubtful to be equal across categories and some hubauthors may even be intentionally selected over others based on their traffic demo (which is a good thing)

        The highest paying categories will still be hard to find very popular topics that are a little evergreen

        *edit* of course, i know nothing about the programs actual functions currently, but I can extrapolate based on how its designed and the history and function of the networks it serves.

  22. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    until the budget is of course depleted for a certain product (HP Program), specially if they roll it out to all hubbers. If you write a hub about say very specialized product no other advertisers will bid on it bec. it is specific to a certain advertiser.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I doubt that 1500 hubbers are sharing the same budget that will be shared by 120000.

      The advertisers will have a set price per impression or click, I can't see that changing, the bulk of these ads are served by major ad networks and advertise major corporations with major advertising budgets.

      Remember that these ads are already being served on 40% of the site, and they will never be served by users who don't have an adsense account (more than you think, many use the site for backlinks, with no interest whatsoever in the revenue sharing).

      In fact, my earnings have increased since the second wave of invites went out.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
        prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ok, I don't know anything about budget on advertising, thanks for the info.

  23. WoodsmensPost profile image54
    WoodsmensPostposted 6 years ago

    eeek this thread got ugly

  24. LeeWalls profile image60
    LeeWallsposted 6 years ago

    I was reading someone's content and really enjoyed the way she wrote. When I went back to her site, she was gone. I made sure I had the correct name and I was right but apparently she canceled her account and left Hubpages.

    I was sad to see her go because I really enjoyed what she wrote but if she found somewhere else to either promote her work or publish, I'm happy for her.

  25. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 6 years ago

    Well lets see what's happening to some of us. I live in a state that's considering an Amazon tax - so I don't write Amazon hubs anymore.

    Oh I converted those to ebay hubs. Oops, they new HP rules make it almost impossible to convert ebay. The only hubs still making me any ebay revenue are the ones that I haven't changed and haven't been unpublished by the filter. The hundreds I've made comply have stopped bringing in revenue. I'm down from a consistent four figures to zip with my HP campaign id.

    Oh lets write for Adsense. The new ad layout with the leaderboard just doesn't seem to be converting. Or maybe it's the bad traffic levels.

    We've deleted Kontera from your options - No don't, worry we aren't going to take away your other affilate options. (Can we have that in writing?)

    Join the HP affiliate program (I've been invited with several of my accounts.) Sorry we don't do anything but Paypal and arent' going to give any other options like most affiliate programs.

    Oh and my personal favorite it took Squidoo 2 years to come back so we have to be patient. There is no factual basis to rely on the fact that Squidoo's history is HPs.

    Is there any reason for me to keep my content here?

    1. IzzyM profile image87
      IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am so sorry to read all this Nelle! You have been a tremendous inspiration to so many, and you have been hit hard.

      At least you learnt from previous experiences of this type of thing not to keep all your eggs in the one basket.

      It's thanks to you many of us have learned to spread our wings, or are in the learning process.

      I am not giving HP up as a bad job, on the contrary I have a load of new hubs and new ideas to write about, but at the same time diversification is important so I am spreading things out.

      I don't think HP is down and out and have no idea what content you still have here, seeing as it must be on other names, but unless you have another place you desperately want to put it, I would keep it here.

      I am seeing improvements, slowly but surely. I think this site will rise again even though it seems like a whole new learning experience to discover what is going to do well in future.

      Actually, I'm still looking for that magic formula...never found it yet.

    2. GmaGoldie profile image82
      GmaGoldieposted 6 years ago

      Experienced Hubbers - do you think the traffic drop off is temporary?

      The massive changes I hope will change the Google results.

      eHow is still showing up on the first page of Google.  HubPages is not showing up now in my searches and my traffic is way down but I have a ton of Amazon capsules - my own greedy fault I guess.

      It is simply a matter of time for traffic to HubPages to return?

    3. Rudra profile image61
      Rudraposted 6 years ago

      I am deleting the ones they think it does not comply with their quality control and republishing them on my own. Hub police is becoming totalitarian.

    4. Uninvited Writer profile image81
      Uninvited Writerposted 6 years ago

      First it's She Told Me Too and now it's Hubpages. Who is next?

      1. Rudra profile image61
        Rudraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Like the sarcasm, please remain uninvited.

        1. sunforged profile image69
          sunforgedposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          that seemed like a rud-rasponse

          1. Rudra profile image61
            Rudraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The response was reciprocal.

    5. sunforged profile image69
      sunforgedposted 6 years ago

      ha - you cant do it with my name (:p)

      1. Rudra profile image61
        Rudraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I can try but will have to get back later.

     
    working