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Modern days witness a lot of divorces. This is spreading like an epidemic over the globe. There are many divorces now-a-days even in the countries where family bond was traditionally very strong.
It creates a lot of emotional and financial problems. And , of course, legal too.
The children are the worst victims. They are penalized for an action of their parents.
We have to rethink the whole social structure.
The bible says, "God hates divorce". As a divorced person, so do I. One of the things that shocked me is that it was legally easier for her to divorce me than it would have been if I had wanted to return a car.
"Grounds" were a joke. The church I had attended for 12 years acted like I was a disease. Not like I had a disease, that would have called forth mercy. The acted like I was the disease. One guy, tried to reach out to me. I felt so sorry for him. He knew the right thing to do, and he tried, but he was so frightened. I ended up comforting him.
For the past nine years I've lived as a "divorced person". My message to anybody thinking about ... don't. (Except one, where she really was being abused, and I figured she might die... that one I said, "run away quick". ) Find a way to make it work. Learn. Pray. Think. Try. But more than anything else. Forgive. Forgive, Forgive, Forgive. 4GIVE.
We realize God hates Divorce but sometimes things don't work out and who wants to stay miserable? How many murders have happened because one or the other couldn't or wouldn't let go? God also wants you to be happy and after nine years , keep praying as God forgave you a long time ago and find someone who will bring happiness and joy to your heart.:
Julianna, I've had time to focus on things that I would not have had time to if I had a family to look after. I am very aware and thankful for the forgiveness of God. I'll even go so far as to say that my divorce brought me closer to God than I thought possible. So, I'm not beating myself up or anything like that.
It's just like the time I fell through a window. It was fun and all, exciting, and I didn't get hurt, even though I should have. Clearly a miracle. But I don't recommend jumping through windows to see miracles. As far as finding someone ... that's another story ... like the rest of my life, highly ... unusual. Your prayers, in particular would be appreciated.
Marisa ... yeah, it's different here. But it's not something that "just happens." I think we've been sold a bill of goods on what marriage is supposed to be like ... Here's what I mean by forgiveness http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-there-sacrif … rgivness_1
I think God only hates divorce when the divorce isn't mutual. People who got divorced, me being one of them, was lucky enough that my ex and I agreed and we agreed out of respect for each other and as an act of compassion for each other and our kid.
Well, specifically, In the context of the scirpture I quoted it was pretty clear that the prophet was saying God was not pleased with the domestic violence that was going on in that day ,too. Basically what it looks like was happening is that men were being viloent with their wives and then if they complained, they would divorce them. And women had no legal standing at the time. God wasn't paritcularly happy with that whole social pattern. In fact, he told the men, "unless you start treating your wives better, I'm not going to be listening to your prayers or accepting your offerings."
Generally, we all agree that when someonone makes a promise, they should try to keep it. I am grateful that God's grace and goodness is greater than broken promises.
I think, I am pretty sure that in the Qu'ran, Allah allowed for the provision that if a man a women chose to seperate that it should be mutual...but also that a women was supposed to be "single" for three months before she takes another mate.
Probably has something to do with ensuring that you aren't knocked up and confused about the father or something.
Anyways, I also think that somewhere in the new testament that Jesus or God also made the same provision, that if it were mutual, it is okay. True, I think God is saying that you should honor your promises but no harm no faul.
I file this one under "All things are lawful for me ... but not all things are beneificial" ... It saddened me to discover that I was truly better off without her than with her, a discovery made after the fact, ... and shocked to discover that God was "good" with that. God gives us got A LOT of grace on this one. It says twice in Proverbs, "Better to dwell in a corner of a housetop, Than in a house shared with a contentious woman. "
So, yeah, I'm better off.
Marriage means nothing in today's society.Too many enter into it with the flippant attitude that if it doesn't work,there's always divorce.Too may do not realize that the vows taken are taken before God.This subject is very important to me.I got married at age 17(wasn't even pregnant) and though I did it for the wrong reasons in the beginning(to escape sexual abuse at home),it turned out to be the best decision I ever made.Christmas Day was our 19th wedding anniversary.God blessed us with 2 beautiful children ages 17 and 11.My paternal grandparents were married for 63 years!
I believe very strongly that the best gift that we can give our children is both parents that love and respect each other.A child needs their father,they need the guidance as well as the discipline.I'm not sure of the exact statistics,I'm sure it's very high,but the majority of our prisons are filled with children of divorce.Children need role models,all they can be expected to know is what they live with.
Divorce is sad, but I believe that many people marry the wrong person out of fear. Fear will hold you back. People fear change, starting over, and the unknown. When you are with someone for a long period, you often decide to marry because although you may want to be happier, you fear the attempt, fear the other side. You become comfortable with being miserable.
More people should spend time learning what truly makes them happy. Most people can't define this, so how can they ever find the person that will make them happy. Most can't even say what they don't want from a partner.
Understand your wants and seek the person that fulfills your happiness!
Possibly but for me getting a divorce was the best thing I ever did...getting married in the first place was the stupidest thing I ever did.
I would like to thank the church for that...convincing my own mother that I was destine for eternal damnation for having a child out of wedlock in which case she called a bastard and a child of sin all on accounts of what the Catholic church told her.
Had she not given me a huge gilt trip...had I not had any respect for my mom... I would never have done it. It is what it is though; now I get to listen to my moms outrage over why I even got married in the first place if I was just going to get a divorce.
She isn't one to talk though because she has gotten three divorces. Really, it could have saved her the trouble if she just didn't get married in the first place. Amen.
I understand your point but in some situations - divorce is justified.
Would you want any of these womem below to stay in a Marriage:
1) Woman being abused mentally and physically, constantly by her deranged hubby?
2) Man sleeping around with ladies all the time (with the excuse of having a high sex drive)?
3) African Scenario: Man brings in new woman to the house and introduces her as the new wife. (3 to become 1)?
4) Sorry this ones bad but I've seen it happen. Man sexually abusing his daughter?
Should a woman have to put up with any of this?
Sometimes, Divorce is the best option but I also hope the rate decreases.
Divorce may be justified in extreme situations like these. However, in most cases, these are not the reasons. Divorce should not occur for petty reasons. It is a serious decision and one has to think hundred times before going to a divorce.
I think that not having love is a pretty good reason to get a divorce as well as alcoholism, neglect and disrespect.
There's more divorce lawyers out there than there are divorces. They are just waiting to break up your family...........
They are earning out of tears of others!
Please...people come to lawyer looking for a divorce...not vice versa...
Sometimes children are better off if their parents get a divorce.
Well, I've been divorced twice. So I guess I failed.
However, I have no ill will with either of my exes, and I adore my adult children, and we are close. Divorce is not good. However, in some cases it is completely necessary. When it's necessary, it changes lives for the better.
I think people jump into marriage too quickly, at least here in America. I have talked with some women who are so afraid to be alone that second marriages are very common and many are failed before they begin. Younger women are waiting longer to marry which may or may not help depending on their reasons.
Perhaps if more couples participated in pre-marriage counseling and planning, they would think more clearly about their decision to marry.
Children suffer either way if the marriage is failing or if it has failed. Often they come out stronger because of their situation. I've seem some amazing children from divorce grow up to be very compassionate, strong, loving human beings.
Divorce to me is like abortion, freedom of choice I wouldn't change a thing. Exept offer marriage counseling .
Jyoti, you are a very, very wise man. I do believe in marriage. I don't believe in divorce (unless there's any kind of outward abuse going on.) And yet, I'm divorced. The divorce was hell, it changed me, and it changed my children. I don't know what the answer is to the problem, but I sure hope someone finds it.
Thanks for your compliments I am not worthy of. It makes me sad when I hear of a divorce. I don't want a family suffering with emotional and economic problems that generally occur with divorces.
Understanding and tolerance are the key words keeping divorce away.
Oh so true. Unfortunately it is only going to get worse.
It saddens me when anyone I know is headed down that road.
I have seen many of my friends go through Divorce and I feel very blessed for being married to such a wonderful man and not have to go through that. I have seen children suffer and families fight, I believe if they do Divorce they should be respectful to each other for the kids sake.
Why? What convinces you that it is hopeless? Why do you assume that nothing can be done? Why must it get worse?
As a divorcee, I know only too well how devastating divorce can be. But I don't think "forgive, forgive, make it work" is the solution.
When I look back at previous generations, I see a lot of people who stuck it out in their marriages through thick and thin. Being divorced was so shameful that they stayed with partners they hated, husbands who were cruel to them, wives who were spiteful, spouses who were mismatched - and led a miserable life. Today's generations believe they have a right to have a happy, fulfilled life, and I think that's a reasonable expectation. If their marriage is making them completely miserable, then it makes no sense to struggle on. It only makes two people miserable - and probably the kids, too.
I think the solution starts right back at the beginning - in making sure that people get married to the right person in the first place. Our society teaches us that the person we should marry is the person we fall in starry-eyed love with, the one who sets fireworks off in our hearts - even though we may have nothing in common, and have completely different goals and desires in life. No wonder, when the stardust wears off in a couple of years, the marriage starts to fall apart. I think we should be making it harder to get married, not necessarily harder to get divorced.
Mind you, in Australia it takes two years to get a divorce - plenty of time for reflection. From what I hear, in some parts of America it's ridiculously quick.
Oh, so right, Marisa. I heartily agree. You said it for me--make it harder to get married and there will be fewer divorces.
Often, marriages are held TOGETHER by the children. I know many couples who stuck together until the kids were through school, then, when the nest was empty found they had nothing in common and nothing much to say to each other anymore. Some of the divorces are "empty nest" divorces. The adult children accept the situation and often tell one or the other partner, "You should have done this YEARS ago."
Divorce is tragic, but sometimes staying together is worse. Granted, it is much better for children to have a mother and father who stay together, and who love each other. But if that can't be achieved, 2 healthy parents who are personally happy and can co-parent their children is better than living in a household where adults are fighting all the time. How children adapt and adjust has more to do with how the parents cope.
I have been through this, and it was excruciating at the time. The hard thing to remember is that you need to put your own feelings aside regarding the ex-spouse, and do what you know is best for your children. It isn't easy.
Children are resilient, and they do survive. Sometimes it can take many years before you realize that divorce was the best thing for everyone, and that in the end, you did the right thing.
It's funny you said that. I was about to reply along the same lines. I just read a study on kids and divorce. The outcome? Kids with two happy parents who are married are better adjusted and happier than kids of divorce. However, kids whose parents divorced are much, much happier (a greater divide than divorce & intact happy marriage) and well adjusted than kids whose parents are unhappily married.
Moral: Divorce is better than a bad marriage.
Personally, I think divorce should be a last option. But, if the marriage is dead and both parties are beyond miserable, divorce is a valid option, in my opinion. If you think it is an option on your wedding day, you shouldn't be getting married, but if you come along to it via legitimate lines, well then, who am I to judge?
That is total rubbish. The ONLY time that divorce is the best thing for the kids is if there is abuse of any kind to or from anyone in the family. That includes physical, sexual, emotional, drug or alcohol abuse.
I know a lot of divorced folks and I am divorced myself. (My ex developed a drug problem. When he took my 3 year old with him to buy cocaine, I knew something had to be done.) Most folks I know divorced because one parent opted to be selfish. Full stop.
Suck it up and stay put and get your kids through the teen years. Their happiness should always come before yours.
I agree that people should, ideally, "suck it up" and find a way to stay together, stop incessant fighting, and try to create a healthy home environment in spite of the fact the marriage is dead. After all, people live with roommates they aren't in love with all the time, and the two people in the marriage do share their role as parents of the children. The home environment doesn't have to be hell if the people are mature, sensible, and reasonable. I suspect far more marriages than we would guess have this kind of set-up.
I think, though, the trouble is that much of the time divorce isn't about two people who didn't make "good marriage material" or "good relationship material". Much of the time (backing up what you said, irohner) it's about one person who doesn't make good marriage or relationship material. Whether they're in love or not, married people have to be able to work together. If one isn't willing or able to the other can't do much. On top of that, sometimes one person is willing to suck it up and find a way to live reasonably happily even in an empty marriage, but if the other is someone who resents the situation too much and lets it show, the suck-it-up approach can lead to an unhealthy situation for the kids and the "reasonable" spouse.
It seems like you were in a situation where you would have been willing to suck it up while the children were young, but you were married to one of those people who apparently wasn't about to do what was right for his own children. Some people get drug dealers. Some people get spouses who are always belittling them. Some get spouses who won't control their tempers around the children. "Unreasonable" and "iffy" spouses come in all varieties, and they often marry reasonable, well adjusted, people who thought the marriage was forever.
What's really misguided and unfair is when a couple looks, to everyone outside, as if all is fine; but behind closed doors there are very serious reasons why a divorce is the best choice. To those outsiders, it can look as if the couple has divorced "for nothing" or "for stupid reasons", because very often people don't want to tell others the ugly reasons there were for the divorce. Abused spouses can tell people but find nobody can believe what they say because the other spouse "has always been such a nice person". There's just way too much that people in general don't understand about relationships, love, marriage, and divorce. (That's why I think it's good that people can have discussions like this one.) I don't think most people "like" divorce, but applying blanket judgments and beliefs to all cases means not understanding a lot of situations.
It is not the others but they themselves can try to resolve the issues at first. Many times people are in hurry to get a divorce. Should we adults behave childish?
Divorce should be the ultimate option and we should try our best to save our marriages.
This is a great discussion in the forum. A lot many learned participants have responded to the topic.
I feel that this is a burning question of the present time. We have to learn to live with. It needs little flexibility and patience.
If we compromise little life will be wonderful.
Thanks to all for participation.
Both my husband and I have parents who have divorced, and all but one (my father died) have remarried. I think their marital problems led both of us to have a very strong view of marriage. We both got into this relationship knowing that we wouldn't marry unless we were certain it would last. God brought us together, and no man shall separate us.
I am not sparated, nor devorced. In fact we are about to reach a 30 annyversary. Though we had many opportunities to go separate ways, we chose not to. We strongly depended (still do) on God to help in times of need.
One thing that I have observed over the years is, that if one party quits, ( for whatever reason), it is all (but) over.
Thank God I have a wife who was always willing to give me that "second" chance.
Again, my observations have shown, that in a majority (though not all) cases, selfishness was the root problem.
Emotional, selfishness, and lack of communication are the most common reason of divorce. But there something else cheating.... the question is why the woman and man cheat? Looking some attention?...They can't get enough or satisfied with their partner? They got bored in having the same meal all the time and they want to try some other meal?
Most of the time when they get satisfied with the other women or other guy on the first time they lose control, forget their family keep doing it as long as they satisfied and never be discover by their partner and asking for forgiveness after....
Let say the wife cheat and ask for forgiveness later, Is it easy for the husband to give it? Maybe 20% out of 100%...They have pride it's not easy for them.
How about when the husband got affair and ask for forgiveness later wife get mad, pissed, upset but we still give it for the sake of family and kids..Give another chance, yes but she will not forget it completely....
And sometimes married is not only for the couple who love each other, sometimes they just look for companionship.
What will you do, if your marriage is one sided relationship, you love your husband but you dont feel that he care and doesn't love you back?
If your the wife can you be handle that forever?
Relationships are based on love and the two people involved, compromising is one of your most powerful tools to stick together. A lot of people my age have divorced parents, more than half.
People are so harsh and judgmental about divorce. No one ever talks about the negative effect intact marriages have on children when the marriages are awful and the parents fight and/or hate each other, or the whole arrangement is just sick and demented, which it sometimes is. My father used to goad my mother into bursting into tears at the dinner table. When he got what he wanted she'd run into her bedroom and lock the door for the rest of the night. He beat my brother with a belt and terrorized the whole family in the name of religion, and late in life became a leader in our Church, even though at home he was a tyrant and an abusive, cruel little man. I did love him, he was my father after all--but if I look at it honestly I can't say that particular 'successful' marriage helped anybody--not him, not my mother, not his four children. Two of my siblings are seriously addicted and chronically ill, the third is a violent sociopath, and I have been divorced three times, in therapy on and off my whole life, and will not try marriage again.
It's easy to sit back and judge, but until you have walked in another person's shoes it is really more compassionate and wise to hold your tongue.
On a historical note, the sanctimony surrounding marriage in the Christian tradition is completely unwarranted. The early Church only allowed it because some of the members couldn't manage to stay chaste until the end--they expected the world to end and Jesus to return in their lifetime, and celibacy was the preferred situation until that happened.
Marriage is disintegrating in the U.S. because women can get jobs. When they can't get jobs anymore (which may be soon in this economy) they will be unable to leave and their husbands will once again be free to beat them into submission or humiliate them at the dinner table or anything else they feel like doing.
That's true of any situation ! !
You may recall my story (about my daughter), the church judged our whole family harshly, and they did nothing to help her. (Further to that story, she got pregnant, and subsequently had an abortion).
My stance is still anti(abortion, or divorce), but I honestly want to encourage people to deal with whatever their decision is. Mercy and compassion FAR outweigh judgment(al attitudes).
Of course it's true of any situation. My point is just that blanket statements about how it's so terrible that marriages don't last are usually just a way of acting superior to others, and I rarely see any good come out of that. You have openly declared yourself to be Christian, so you must know that during his lifetime, Jesus did not hang around with all the perfect people who had good marriages and never made any mistakes. That being the case I really don't understand why so many Christians make it a practice to be harshly judgmental of people who fail to live up to their sectarian fantasies of what family life should be like. I don't think that is helpful OR Christian.
I also think many people are attracted to Church to kind of cover over their horrid personal lives and habits and/or to justify their abusive natures. That was certainly the case with my father, and he was by no means unique.
There is nothing wrong with being anti-divorce or anti-abortion. It's not like I myself get up every morning and think, "Wow, what a great day to get divorced or abort a baby--Now there's some real fun!" No, those acts are painful and desperate. People mostly only take them when backed into a corner.
In the case of divorce, I don't think it's terrible or that it means the institution of marriage is crumbling, I think it means that it is changing and we have to leave open the possibility that it could be changing for the better.
I agree with you. Rethinking the family structure does not necessarily mean staying in a marriage that will only make everyone dysfunctional. Perhaps defining what a family is to each couple is more important than before. Perhaps defining expectations and value would help.
I am divorced, and I can tell you that it was one of the best things I ever did. And now that it's done and I'm a few years down the road, all the toxic people I used to know are evaporating with that divorce.
Divorce isn't always a blessing, but it was in my case and in many others.
Divorce is better than staying in a marriage where the two people are miserable.
Well, Pam & all-
The plain fact is people live much longer than they used to. Much longer. Back in the 1800's, still, the average life expectancy was something like 45 years old. Uh, that tell you anything?
Also, people's expectations are ridiculous these days as far as 'what a marriage should be.' Fact of the matter is, it is a legal and social contract--and the terms vacillate all the time. Bad deal. Wife used to be cooker, cleaner, baby, childcare, etc., etc., now the husband and wife are supposed to be life partners, but we still haven't completely gotten away from the old traditional model, either. Then there is the influence of the media with visions of sex goddess sugar plums and 'Alpha males,' lol. All this enters into it.
Abortion-- Well, that's a personal decision and the right of women to have control over their own lives and bodies, I believe, frankly, until fetal viability at about 3 months. Whoever, yes, writes these blanket statements covering 'good' and 'bad,' certainly were not looking at things from a realistic, real-life analysis of how things and people work. Fact is, birth control fails, even if people are responsible in having sex. And how weird that these same 'types' are usually the biggest criers about welfare mothers and social ills.
I am divorced (for 9 years), a single mom, and have no intention of getting married again.
I didn't enter into the institution of marriage casually. There was never a thought, "If this doesn't work out, I can just get a divorce."
I've made many mistakes in my life, and I have learned from them. And when I divorced, it was because I thought it was a lot more important to save people than the marriage itself. It doesn't mean, however, that I didn't make a superhuman effort to make the marriage a success.
Sometimes you do not really know a person until you have lived with them for quite a while. And sometimes people really change. And then there are those "dealbreakers" called cheating, addiction, physical and/or emotional abuse, and finally, a complete unwillingness to seek counseling or get help. I married a charming guy who turned out to be a monster later.
I lived with all of those behaviors, and divorce, while not an easy choice, was the best thing for my family in the longrun. Raising daughters - I did not want them to think these behaviors were "normal" and/or that a woman should just put up with being treated like that. I tried to raise them to have good self esteem, and a sense of self empowerment. I felt a responsibility to do what was best for them.
I did not feel that we had a "broken home." Divorce gets a bad name. Sometimes it is a new beginning. It was definitely the beginning of emotional healing for all of us.
I look at my daughters now, and they are all in stable relationships, are leading productive lives, and are happy. They INSIST on respect, and that is when I know I did the right thing.
I don't think there are any easy answers to this dilemma. There is no "one size fits all" solution to preventing divorce. I believe that most people need to be a lot more careful about the commitments they enter into, and to take the decision to marry a lot more seriously.
Even with that, though, there are no guarantees.
One thing that helps is to have a realistic view of marriage to begin with. Living with anyone is difficult, and involves a good deal of compromise. You have to be able to accept the other person for who they are, and not for what you want them to be.
I believe a lot of women grow up watching too many movies, listening to too many love songs, and reading too many romance novels. Our culture has a very "romantic" view of love, and when real life doesn't live up to the fantasy, we often feel cheated. It sets us up for disappointment, because real life is not a fairy tale, and there isn't always a happy ending to every story. The movies don't show much of what comes after the wedding, unless it's the "Honeymooners" or the "Jeffersons."
I think of the man whose lady loves adores him, puts him on a pedestal, and hangs on his every word...his ego is built by her exclusive attention and her enthusiasm for his hopes, his dreams, and his future. He feels ten feet taller from just being in her presence. This is the behavior of new love. He feels pretty cheated when later, down the road, she is too tired to listen to him, is grouchy, and she no longer acts impressed. She may be exhausted from child care, or she might have had a tough day at the office. And she may turn away sex in favor of sleep.
This is where relationships usually start to unravel...
The fact is, no one is responsible for your happiness but yourself. A husband or wife is not there to fulfill your fantasy or make your dreams come true. Your partner is there to share in the journey. How you feel on any given day has a lot to do with your attitude and your expectations. Most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be.
If you have a partner who is not on the same wavelength, though, and has no desire to work at the marriage, and you see that you are in it by yourself, you have a problem. One person can't do it alone, and you cannot change or control anyone but yourself. If after many reasonable attempts to communicate - or get into counseling - and you see no change - you do have to ask yourself if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life.
Or maybe you're the selfish one, and treat your spouse like a servant, and take the many things they do for you for granted. You don't pay attention to how unhappy they are, and when they make suggestions for new and different things to do, you act like a wetblanket and never want to do them. You are only willing to do what you want to do. You let yourself go, and you quit taking care of yourself, and you stop making the effort to be interesting. When your spouse complains, you say things like, "If you don't like it, there's the door."
Chances are, in either scenario, there is going to be a divorce down the road...
Some of you have made a good point about those who "settle" for a miserable life. On one side of my family, there is virtually no divorce. The marriages among relatives have lasted 25, 35, and up to 50 years. However, when you look closely at those couples, they lead separate lives, and don't even sleep together or talk to each other. They co-exist in the same house, and it is clear that they stayed together for the kids, and because they were not willing to give up their lifestyle. If that is "living" it looks pretty empty and pretty miserable to me.
I don't think we can completely generalize where this topic is concerned, or moralize too much. Every set of circumstances is unique and different. I am all for couples trying to make a go of things, and I do believe that most things that are worthwhile in life don't come easy. At the same time, I believe there are relationships that really should end, and that in the end, it is more important to save people than it is to save marriages.
You are so right about there not being any guarantees. I have been married to my wife for 37 1/2 years and she has recently decided she wants a divorce. It is my wholehearted belief that the reason she has decided this is two fold. One, drugs, and not illegal ones, the ones prescribed by a physician, and the other is the influence she has gotten from another group on the internet. Unless someone knows both parties and the circumstances surrounding there diviorce, I don't believe you can accurately make judgements and then give that person adivice on how to handle there situation. I visited the groups she was at and was met with so mush distain and resentment I just left them. I was called a lier, a cheat, paranoid, amoung other things. All this from a person that professes to be a man of God and a professional therapist. I now know where the ideas she has came from.
I believe marrige is forever, except in the case of physical abuse. After vowing before God to make the commitment, it isn't something to take lightly, but in this day and time that is what is happening. Unfortunately, it is changing and influencing people that should know better. Our society today does not look at marriage the way it should be looked at. My soon to be ex-wife ask me to continue paying her alimony if she remarried. I ask her why I would do that, her reply was "it may not work out and I shouldn't loose part of my income because of it." I have no problem supporting her while she is still single, but I certainly do if she remarries. I would not agree and she told me she thinks I am selfish and greedy. This is the mindset of some people today. They want to have their cake and eat yours too!
Living in a fantasy world will only lead you to disappointment in time. The expectations we are being led to believe by movies, books, etc. are not the real world experience. I have always tried to be a realist when it comes to life, but other people buy into the fantasys and cause so much pain and heartache for their partners.
You are so, so right about being responsible for your own happiness. It comes from your outlook on any given situation. If you look at the negative side, you will be negitive. The choice you make will be negative. Life itself is nothing more than choices and we are the only ones that are capable of make them for ourselves. But, so many times we allow outside influence to dictate our choice because they concur with our negative outlook. We look only for what makes me happy, not what is the best choice for our sake and our partners sake.
Take it from one who is there, divorce is devistating at any age and has become the escape for many people who feel like they can do nothing else. But, this I know, "if there is a will, there is a way." Giving up completely is not the answer. Marriage is hard work not fantasy or make believe. As you grow older you love your spouse more and you get to a point where your health starts to fail and then is when you have to depend on each other. Or that is the way it is supposed to be. But, not in all cases as you can see.
I guess the one thing that I want you to realize is that you need to be very careful and really think about what advise you give to someone that is asking for your input. Don't look at just the one situation because there are more circumstances surrounding it. There are two people involved, not just the one.
I agree it is all too common. maybe more thought should be put in when it a marriage over 10 years not to walk away. It's not a home in a depressed area.we're talking about a person they loved.
However, there are some things that happen after a marriage that make it impossible to stay together (adultery,abuse (physical or substance), reduced mental state). Anything less than that should be thought over
Why must it always be about God, religion and damnation? Although most won't agree for one reason or another, if there had never been a religion the world most definatley would've been much better off. If one could only asked the 10's of millions of people who have died in the name of 1 religion or another since it all began what they think , I wonder what they would say.
It is better to stay together in most cases. It is economical and a spouse get emotional support from another in distress. Children also need love and care from both parents.
I wrote so much in reply to this subject that I think I have another hub in the making! Can I quote you all? Well, not all, but lots of you?
I'll link back to the thread....maybe that will keep me from infringing on copyrights! Lots of good information in this thread!
ok - my hub is published in response to this thread - I'm posting the link not for self-promotion, but so you can respond and let me know if any one wants me to remove my reference(s) to their posts. (If I'm out of line, my feelings won't be hurt when admin "snips" my link!)
Thank you all for the inspiration!
...Not all family units are created alike. Before you go "think of the children," also think of how terrible it must be for a child to live in a home where the parents are at the brink of divorce and then realize you're asking them to live in that limbo for even longer.
As for the economic argument, I don't see how that factors in. If you're concerned about legal costs, get a prenup. Its not that hard. You only have your own lack of foresight to blame.
Divorce happens. Better that than a society where you're forced to suffocate. I don't imagine a loveless marriage is any fun nor that you can sustain the energy to create/force love when it isn't there.
Not long ago I wrote an article on the divorce rate, and if the site where I got statistics from was correct, there is a lot of misunderstanding about the distribution of divorce rates. In a nutshell (and essentially), a lot of "The" divorce rate can be attributed first to people under thirty. The divorce rate is fairly low for first marriages and people in their thirties. Then, too, second and third marriages contribute to the divorce rate (because the rate in those is quite high).
I honestly don't believe that most divorces result from people's being too flippant about marriage or not being willing to try to work on it. Based on divorced people I know, I'm pretty sure they truly believe there marriage is forever when they get married.
What can happen is people seem very compatible and "forever" because they do something like marry "their best friend" (which they believe is better than marrying someone with whom they have an infatuation-type relationship). They think they know each other, because neither party has been through much in terms of very, very, serious loss, stress, or grief (so nobody knows how he will deal with such things if/when they come).
It all works well when the stresses of life are the normal ones, and couples get to do the old "working together" thing when it comes to things like money worries.
For some couples, the stresses and storms are within some range of "normal". If they're lucky, when those things come they will discover that they deal with such things in similar ways. Other couples, however, find that they deal with the big, awful, things in such different ways it drives a wedge between them (just when they most didn't need someone to be "working against them" or "not understanding them"). Because they deal with things so differently they may pull inward (which is the last thing a marriage needs when life is already so difficult). Still, they cannot pull together because their natures turn out to have been revealed to be too different.
At a time when life presents things like serious stress, grief, loss, etc., nobody has the "mental or emotional energy" to do anything like "trying to go against the tide" with a spouse who seems to be from another planet. Even when people care about the other person, it ruins a marriage when neither party is what the other needed in times of extreme difficulties.
Brains aren't even fully mature until early to mid twenties, so another factor is that two people who marry at 21 may just "turn into different people" once their brain has finished maturing and they think differently.
If you assume that this is a big contributing factor for people in their twenties (as well as the first cause I mentioned); and if you assume that people who fail in two and three marriages may have their own "issues" that lead to their getting into less than great relationships; all that is left is the 30-plus people in first time marriages, who, to the best of my knowledge, have a divorce rate of between about 6 and 8%. That's not all that horrible, particularly since the forces I mentioned above can have the impact they do when a couple doesn't know how they'll react to the big stuff unless/until it affects their marriage.
Then there are times when one person does all the trying and giving, but they are married to someone who does not. That isn't a matter of not taking the marriage seriously either.
Really - unless and until that big, beyond-normal-levels, grief/loss/stress comes (and sometimes thing come one right after another), most people don't know how they will cope/deal with it. Even if one half of the couple has gone through giant loss and multiple stresses, the chances are good (especially when they're young) that the other one has no idea (and sometimes no experience with coping skills) how he will react if/when such things arise. Sometimes, too, it doesn't matter that one person comes from a family background of people who approached problems with a "whatever it takes" attitude, while the other person may have come from a family where people don't quite have the same "take-charge" attitude.
People who go through life without divorce are often fortunate enough not to have had more than the "usual" difficult things hit their marriage. Some are fortunate enough to learn that the person they married and they respond to the big, awful, extreme, things in much the same way. Some remain in dead marriages just because they are so against divorce, or because they think it's better for their children. Sometimes even the children route for a divorce between their parents.
Sometimes, too, one person marries someone who just wasn't "marriage material", and it is that second person who is the eventual cause of the divorce.
Divorce doesn't happen because people don't take their marriage seriously. When it happens it's sometimes because two healthy individuals realize that their children will be better off in a healthier situation, rather than seeing nothing but emptiness between their parents. Sometimes it happens because one person can't happily live in a bad situation, resents it, and becomes nasty to someone else who has gone above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to trying to improve the marriage. Sometimes, too, people who believe their marriage is forever are suddenly shocked to find themselves divorced a decade later.
People who have been divorced, and people who have been close enough to divorced people, often see quite easily that, as bad as divorce is, it is very often not the fault of one or both of the people involved. It is a heartbreaking thing to see a marriage that had so much promise and seemed so right die. On top of that, divorced people that I know often say have absolutely no confidence that they will even recognize a "right" relationship, because their first relationship seemed so right at one time; and because they and their first spouse seemed so sure it was forever.
Divorce can be like cancer in a marriage. It can start out with invisible "cells" that grow and grow until there is no curing it. Just as cancer can strike the most unsuspecting, healthy-seeming, people; divorce can strike a marriage the same way. That's something only people who have been close to divorce, have studied it, or have been through it seem to see.
I think divorce is somehow and in many ways worse than cancer. Divorce involving children never heals, it festers more and more with time. The devastation has no end.
Ramen! Have you seen Misha's new pic? I love it!
Me too! He's quite tasty there
How is your new place?
lol, gurl you make me smile like always.
We haven't gotten into our "own" new place yet. We are staying with bf's brother, wife and kid... um... my mom said that if I have nothing nice to say than I should say nothing at all.
How are you?
ROFL! Poor thing, I hope you get your own place soon. Can't you just set a tent there?
I've been quite busy lately, but now things are getting a bit lazy, so I am back enjoying this place...
I would have to say that just the idea of divorce really sucks for me. I am not divorced yet but it is coming. Sometimes what one person wants is not what another wantsand that can't be changed. The best thing to do is remain civil to each other, lest its abusive, for the childrens sake. As a child of divorce I know the issues it puts on the kids, I just hope that my wife and I can give enough love to our children and be civil to each other while we are apart.
My children never got over the divorce. My husband was military and when we split up he never saw the kids because he was always stationed elsewhere. He never saw the hurt and disapointed faces of his kids on so many occasions. He missed out on so much. My grown daughter does not want children and my son who is also divorced regrets having any. But what can you do, when one person leaves the marriage and has decided it's over.
I wouldn't wish anyone to get divorce but if the marriage isn't working then it may be the best way to go.
shoot! Look at the movie stars, they don't marry for love or they have a very warped idea of love because they are CONSTANTLY getting divorced. It makes me sad to see them get a divorce just becaues they can.
I am sorry for those who are divorced and I do hope that you find someone who completes you as I have.
I don't believe there is any such thing as a marriage that works. There are only couples who work on their marriages. Being abusive, unfaithful, non-communicative, or just plain negligent does not constitute working on a marriage.
crazd, I know your remark is well intended; but (on behalf of anyone on here who is divorced) I know my share of mature individuals who have been through divorce.
Sometimes it is precisely because a person is already "complete" that s/he is able to make the difficult choice to end an unhealthy, destructive, situation. It can take a tremendous about of strength, good sense, security, and any number of other things only complete people have to decide to drag one's children through divorce. Whether they entered the marriage as "complete" people or not, for most mature, responsible, loving, parents children have a way of making many snap into the "completeness" they need to make the best choice for them.
valerie, I'd somewhat disagree (although I believe a lot of marriages are as you say). There is such a thing as people who are just right for each other, and for them the only "working on" things tend to be the smaller issues (like living with someone who leaves his socks around or finding a way to agree on what the tax refund money gets spent on - the non-marriage threatening kind of stuff). In other words, some people don't have to do much working on at all; while others, to one degree or another, have to work-on-it a little more (or a lot more). Somewhere at the "high end of the spectrum" (and they may not the majority) I do think there is such a thing as a marriage that's truly "right". I don't think that because "farther down on the scale" other "right"/good marriages require more work that detracts from their "rightness"; but I also think it's incorrect to believe there's no such thing as those rarer, perfect, marriages that require very little work.
I hate the thought of divorce, but sometimes in some situations, I believe it is justified. I used to think that people shouldn't get divorced, but until you experience a bad relationship...you may not understand the importance of divorce and be thankful for having the freedom to do so.
crazd, it isn't weird at all to want everyone happy. I think most of us do. The bad thing about divorce is that often the two people are thrilled to be rid of one of another but it is the children who aren't happy. Oh well, the whole divorce thing is a rotten one - there's no getting away from it.
Yep it's there and I guess divorce will always be there lurking in the darkness. And I do feel bad for the kids.
I've been married to the same woman for 39 years! I'm so lucky my two boy's never had to experience a broken home.
But, should two people who are miserable, and maybe arguing and fighting all the time, stay together just for the sake of the children??
I wish society, divorcing people, and even the courts would do a better job of sending the message that divorce, when handled properly by the parents and the courts can mean that families/homes are "separated families" but not "broken families". Unfortunately, even the most sensible, caring, reasonable, parents can go into court aiming to do everything right - only to discover that courts have no idea about how to make sure both parents stand the best chance of remaining whole (in terms of their relationship with their children, financial independence, etc.). Instead, the way things are often done, it is the courts that turn a "separated family" into "broken" (both as a family and sometimes as individuals).
I'm not the biggest fan of lawyers, but they don't go around scouting out happy couples to break up. It might be nice if the courts and lawyers did a better job of things once the divorce is going to happen, but you can't blame them for breaking up families.
How about this 107-year-old lady who may divorce her 22nd husband...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/0 … index.html
(and we think Americans are bad when it comes to divorces.. )
I don't know if she's still dating, but she apparently looks for younger husbands because she starts to worry that her present husband will be interested in younger women (like 85, maybe? ). I don't know, but I think if you're 107 you have to come to grips with the fact that there's a heck of a lot of younger women out there.
I'm really confused right now, and i feel foolish for broadcasting my biz like this, but im soo overwhelmed with grief, I have a two year old son, and I got married when i was 19 for the "stardust" which is now gone, and now seeing his family roots and mine even though we both vary from our families, we are nothing alike, we don't share the same goals, r priorities, and i realy have tried everything to make it work, and i feel so crappy about the environment hat i exposed my son to, becuase i think i ran away and got married to run away from home ya know, anyways our relationship is abusive so i honestly am afraid toughing it out would mean certain death, i have been to the hospital twice, for "anger driven accidents" but now my son is attached to his dad and i have no job, no money, and my main focus was to be at home with my kids when they are little, but now im all discombobulated and don't know what to do, obviously i had to run back to the home i ran away from, and now what should i do as far s work, my son, my future, i feel so devastated....
My parents had a solid 55-year marriage, and both of my siblings are married, happy, and still with their original spouse. But I've been divorced for over 3 years. I had one marriage, and do not wish to try it ever again. My ex and I are on good terms, though, and since I married very late in life, we did not have any children. That helped to be able to accept the failure -- that, and the fact that we both came to the place where we finally, mutually decided to end our marriage after almost 6 years.
We did try very hard to make our marriage work.
In the end, I had spent many more years single than married. It was not much of an adjustment for me to return to being alone, and I am happier than I've ever been. However, I'll always feel badly that because I got a divorce, I might have brought discouragement to someone in the body of Christ. When thoughts come back to nag me, I remember that I have been forgiven.
One good thing about my life post-divorce -- I am beyond thrilled when someone tells me about an upcoming marriage or talks sincerely about how in love they are with their spouse after 25 years. I don't envy them anymore. I just rejoice with them.
Drive wild now you deserved it. Divorce, Separated, Married ... all paper work as long as you want to be together be together but no attachments, don't believe in them. What will women do if divorce was not an option? better question : What did they do?
So stay in a loveless and possibly bitter marriage for the sake of the children? The children will learn important lessons like love has no place in a marriage. *rolls eyes*
I'm also seeing a lot of people talk about how others don't have any respect for marriage. I didn't know marriage was a person whose feelings could be hurt and offended.
I've been divorced and question the purpose of marriage.
One can commit without a piece of paper. It also helps to ward off co-dependency, retain one's individuality and let go of all of the unwritten "should's" in marriage.
I think the problem with judging divorce is that the wrong people get judged in the name of mercy, tolerance, and love. While there are abusers who break marriages, there are also male and female harlots, liars, and cowards who cheat on their marriages.
The promise in the wedding vows is not just to stick together like glue, but it is to love. Not just feel in a loving mood all the time, but to deliver love, to care.
The problem is people who are in the wrong look for excuses and ways to blame the other spouse. Often they incite the other spouse into bad behavior and seize the opportunity to break out when they have an excuse in hand.
Some extort what they want from their spouses narcissistically threatening breakup or divorce as if to say, "If you don't give me what I want, I will play the harlot on our marriage." Truth is a person has to be a harlot at heart to make such a terrible threat to break the marriage. And a liar. And a hypocrite. And only a fool would marry a person who had treated their family this way.
Yet our government with its no-fault divorce laws robs the faithful to coddle the unfaithful. After all, they provide a healthy source of extortion and wealth to the divorce industry. Here in America, a cheating spouse and lover can drag a faithful spouse into court to be threatened with the most grave of unjust losses: children, family, house, property, and support payments.
Why can our courts be so hideously unjust? Are they inept? Ignorant? Stupid? Or are they corrupt? Do they find a source of ill-gotten gain in all this? Trace out what happens and where the money goes.
Some giggalo or floozy goes on the prowl for an unfaithful spouse who can be taken. Perhaps this is satisfy a bad self-esteem. Perhaps is for carnal pleasures or forbidden pleasures, something taboo. And, perhaps this, combined with the rich rewards of taking all that a faithful spouse has and cruising on a free income under the guise of child support? What better way to steal than to do it while hiding behind the well-being of the children?
So, now the government has subsidized adultery with the loot robbed from the faithful, the court pauses a moment to capture their share of the loot. The faithful spouse is threatened with this grave loss and made to feel he or she needs an attorney for protection. At $200/hour and a $2000 retainer to make sure it is all paid in advance. The retainer is quickly spent on paperwork and it's time for court. How about another $2000 retainer? And of course, the longer injustice is prolonged, the more attorneys can charge.
But, where's the judge's cut in all this? As attorneys are in greater demand, the state legislatures have to raise judges' salaries to keep them from going back into private practice. Maybe. But, maybe there are other sources of income not yet mentioned.
Now the divorce is over and the property division is settled, but child custody is a very contentions matter. Why? Well, logically, it would be pretty asinine for a court to throw the children over to be raised in a house of adultery, and it would be an act of great cowardice and indecency to rob the faithful and their children of their right to live together in love enjoying the shared family assets. But, that is exactly what the courts do. Why? Because they have an excuse and a guise. They can say it is better for the children to be with a couple than a single parent.
Does this sound unconstitional? It is. Only a liar or an idiot would say otherwise. It is deprivation without due process. But that's easily solved by lying about what the constitution requires. But, where is the right to a jury? Where is the right to be found guilty before being deprived this way? It is said this is a civil matter since it is between two parties with shared interests that must be divided.
Well, how about this? How about respecting the right of the spouse who is wronged to keep the marriage or bring a fault based divorce?
With no-fault, a person is robbed, a family is deprived without being found guilty of anything. Should a spouse who is playing the harlot on the marriage have the right to do this to the family without proving them guilty of anything at all? Should the innocent be robbed? Or are our courts and our legislators too cowardly, dishonest, and inept or too lazy to do anything to correct this injustice?
Senator Feinstein in California, where the heck are you? Senator Boxer? President Obama? Hillary Clinton? Are you going to do something, or are you unable or unwilling, or not good enough?
When will this injustice end?
If people abuse their families or decide to cheat on them and give cause for divorce, they are the ones who should be out in the cold and harassed by child support services.
Coming back to the corruption issue, with no-fault divorce, the courts have a very strong incentive to assign custody in a manner that will bring the greatest windfall since there is Federal and State funding based on the amount of child support collected.
How many judges or family members of judges are on the boards of these child support services?
Of course, this might just all be a conspiracy theory from some crazy person. But, there seem to be more and more people around who claim to have seen these things with their own eyes and who claim to have been deprived unjustly, and claim to have loved ones, brothers, sisters, friends who have been deprived unjustly this way.
Oh, yes there are those who deserve to be forced to pay child support. There are deadbeat dads who run out on a marriage and leave the family to fend for itself. And if you go to a child support court meeting, you will find plenty of them.
But, that does not justify the evil of raping the very souls of the faithful in the very worst way.
As for the violent person or unfaithful person who is a hypocrite in a highest place in the church, sometimes you have to accept that there are some churches who are really stupid and hypocritical and ungodly and will coddle the unfaithful and abusive in the name of tolerance while giving the faithful spouse a severe emotional beating and rejection. Perhaps there is a good reason a loving God can send some people to hell or allow them to send themselves there.
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