Was Romney Right About Olympics? Palestine?

1. 60

   undermyhatposted 11 years ago

   Britain may be treating their fighting men and women right by getting them into the Olympics but for all the wrong reasons.  Attendence is very disappointing so to fill the seats the British Olympics is giving unfilled seats to military service members so as to fill out the tiny audiences.  So far NBC coverage is disappointing and the Olympics themselves are not drawing the inperson attendence expected.
   
   Was Romney right?  The Salt Lake City, Utah WINTER Olympics were a hit and actually made a little money, enough to keep some of the facilities openned and maintained year round.  Though not the nicest thing to say (are there points for nice?)  Romney's professional observation that the London Olympics is disappointing is proving to be true.  Boris Johnson can be as angry as he wants, London's problems are not Romney's fault or responsibility. 
   
   Is he right about the Palestinians?  Of course he is.  The Muslim citizens of Israel are the same "people" as the Palestinians of Gaza City.  The sole difference is the society and culture in which they live.  In the Muslim neighborhoods of Israel the houses are intact, large and frequently have nice cars in the garage - Why?  Because they have, for the most part, eschewed the silliness of Islamic teaching- Jihad.  jihad results in little more than misplaced energies, poverty, the decaying effect of hatred and death.  But jihad is fundamental to Islam and so to abandon it is to abandon the old culture and adopt a new one.  Romeny got that right, too?
   
   Romany was also endorsed by the hero of a free Poland - Lech Walesa - sounds like a 3 for 3.
   http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 … ring-visit

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      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The seats that have been given to the military are seats that were allocated to accredited sports officials and the press, who decided not to turn up. It is not the case that those seats have been given to soldiers because the tickets haven't sold, or because there hasn't been the interest. In fact, there are many people who feel outraged because they tried to obtain tickets for certain events and could not.

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         undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         So well done.  I was very pleased that military service people wwere given those tickets.

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            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Indeed, they deserve it after the nightmare wars that they have been put through. However, because the majority of other tickets have been sold to the public, now the seats, which were once allocated to press, etc, have gone on sale. I think we should sue G4S and give the additional funds to the families of soldiers. After all,  they have impressively demonstrated, as public servants, that they are capable of delivering the type of service which the private sector clearly can't.

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The Olympics are being held in the recovery of a recession, besides diplomacy is not about telling the truth, in fact it's often about not telling the truth, he offended possibly our most powerful ally and that is very bad diplomacy...
      
      Then he went and praised the Israeli health care system which is very very similar to Obamacare (mandated insurance etc.).
      
      Then he supported a UN declared war crime and crime against humanity in Israel. Then you went and said something as dumb as Jihad is a large part of Islam.
      
      seems like both of you did horribly.

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      Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Olympics? Hmm. Perhaps you should ask Mr. Romney about his association with Sead Dizdarevic, CEO of Jet Set Sports which sold corporate ticket packages to the 2002 Winter Olympics. During the mid-1990s, he and his sister in law delivered $131,000 cash “contributions” to Romney’s predecessors in hotel and airport meetings. Dizdarevic later testified the payments were to secure an exclusive Olympics hospitality contract.
      
      Romney took over organising the games while an investigation was ongoing investigation into the affair, and who did he award the contract to? Yep, Sead Dizdarevic. And who is now among the top Romney super PAC campaign contributors? Yep, Sead Dizdarevic. Small world.

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, but who cares how the seats got filled. The important thing is that those 2002 Olympics seats did not go empty, right?
         That's all the matters.
         Romney's an Olympics HERO!
         

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Romney already changed his mind and said the Olympics are wonderful and have no problems.  So if he was right then I guess you'll agree he's wrong now?

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      undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No - I will agree that the cry babies in the press and the cowards in politics cause far too much trouble.

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         So you're saying he was right both times? You'll agree with him not matter what he says and how often he changes his mind?

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            undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            No, I disagree with the walked back position that cry babies and cowards routinely press.  Too few people speak their minds and stick to the point.  Too many are pressured by handlers, party functionaries, family, press secretaries, fund raisers, etc... to walk back a correct statement because it just sounded mean.  We have become a society of cry babies.

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   mikelongposted 11 years ago

   Romney was absolutely wrong on both counts......
   
   The only thing he did right, perhaps, was to realize the benefits of socialized medicine........if only the United States were as adept as Britain and Israel when it comes to health care.

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      undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If only the United States had someone else to provide massive military support and a giant market for entertainment and products.  If only the United States was a tiny country receiving billions in support from a massive market and military power.
      
      Stillright - Palestinian culture is inferior and the Olympics will not have an equivalent success to the Salt Lake City Olympics.

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         Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Then withdraw your support from those politicians that want to go to war, and give your support to those who want to downsize the military and improve the lives (and healthcare) of your fellow Americans. See, easy peasy.

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            undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So who will bail out Europe when they remember their history and fall on each other like jackals tearing at a carcass and threaten to bridge the little gap between Britain and the continent?  The US military is NATO with out it Europe would be emasculated and vulnerable, as would Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines, Australian and New Zealand.  One can delude one's self into believing that the world is a safe and peaceful place but it never has nor ever will be.

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               Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Not America, that's for sure. As much as I'd love to give your desperate rant some credence, I've got better things to do and brighter people to speak to. Good luck with the sad, pathetic and pityfull posturing though. Alas, levels of education are higher, and gone are the days(for the most part) that people are influenced by ten bob shills.

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4. 60

   Hollie Thomasposted 11 years ago

   "As an Israeli, I had to start planning for my military service during my senior year of high school. In Israel, interviews, medical checkups, examinations and forms are all a routine part of one's 18th birthday. However, long before scheduling my first interview, I had already made up my mind: "I will not join the military." I decided that I had to take a stand in the face of policies of segregation and discrimination that ravaged (and still ravage) my country and the occupied Palestinian territories.
   Within Israel, these acts of segregation include towns reserved for Jews only, immigration laws that allow any Jew from around the world to immigrate but simultaneously deny displaced indigenous Palestinians that same right, and national health care and school systems that receive significantly more funding in Jewish towns than in Arab towns. Even former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described the situation as a "deliberate discrimination," and added that "governments have denied [Palestinian citizens of Israel] their rights to improve their quality of life."
   The situation in the Occupied Territories is even worse. Nearly 4 million Palestinians have been living under Israeli occupation for over 40 years without basic human and civil rights. Examples include roads that are for Jews only, discrimination in water supply (Israelis use as much as four times more water than Palestinians, while Palestinians are not allowed to dig their own wells and must rely on Israeli supply) and the collective punishment of Gaza, where 1.5 million Palestinians have been living in the largest open-air prison on earth for over four years."
   
   This person doesn't agree with you about Arabs having nice cars and houses. They claim, and obviously they have lived in Israel, that discrimination is rife. By the way, Netenyahu's nephew wrote this post.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Carter's correct: Israel's policies and actions amount to apartheid.

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   rickyliceaposted 11 years ago

   About the Olympics I'm not an expert, but I think most of them lose money.
   About Palestine...
   It's not PC to say that culture matters.
   He's definitely right on this one.
   Now he's been accused of racism, when culture and race are two completely different things.
   
   However Romney appears to  have, surprise, surprise, flip-flopped on what he said.
   
   http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- … n-culture/

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      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Culture and race are two different things. However, you can hardly compare the success of one nation, or culture, to  a nation or culture which is on the shitty end of the apartheid stick, and then claim that that particular race or nation is unsuccessful due to their cultural values. There are no  lessons to be learned in an exercise like this. If you have to compare societies and cultural values, compare those with equal rights, under the law.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   "suggesting that Israel's economic success is borne out of its "culture" Actually borne out by US tax payer dollars.

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      livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      US aid, mostly military, accounts for about 1% of Israeli GDP, so not likely.

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7. 77

   Greekgeekposted 11 years ago

   The Salt Lake City Olympics were a mess and cost lots of taxpayers money, and created several white elephants. Lots of Romney's cronies got handsome payouts, though!
   
   This from my parents whose town was basically under siege during the Olympics: they left town because it was clear all the streets were going to be blocked off to keep ordinary citizens from getting in the way. They would've had to submit to a police checkpoint to get out out of their neighborhood to go to the grocery store, since they would've had to pass a few blocks near one of the facilities, that took over all of Utah since there wasn't space for them in Salt Lake itself. Some of the events were held a couple hours away from Salt Lake. It was a nightmare.
   
   But the sponsors were happy.
   
   More importantly:
   
   -- No place is 100% safe. Watching a movie can get you shot. The time to criticize the UK is after it's failed, not before.
   
   -- The state of Israel enjoys MASSIVE, massive financial, economic, and military support from overseas partners... That is why Romney is going there for a several million dollar fudraiser. Do you think the native Israelis are filling his coffers? No, it's all the wealthy GOP representatives over there. Obama goes to Hollywood to find Democratic millionaires fundraising dinners. Romney can find enough GOP millionaires in Israel to make millions of dollars in fundraising on an expensive overseas visit. That just speaks to the level of direct economic and monetary support Israel enjoys from overseas. And of course, America is only one of many countries that has and continues to support Israel over the years.
   
   It's not culture that gives Israel its prosperity. It's the fact that the world helped support it, found it, defend it against its neighbors and supply all the donations and help it needs to fund its military and infrastructure, so that its own people don't have to spend many tax dollars on military spending and can instead work on building their economy with fewer expenses than most nations. Also, they have the military might to keep the Palestinians in a permanent ghetto. It's hard to be successful under those circumstances.
   
   I'm not going to get into the whole issue of who deserves what land, or who's been the aggressor, but from a purely economic standpoint, Romney is incorrect about the source of Israel's wealth.

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      undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Of course it is culture.  What is the difference between Canada and Mexico?  Germany and Italy?  North Korea and South Korea?  South Africa and Africa?  Cultural differences that account for different economic systems, political systems and religious practices.  The communist culture of North Korea and the capitalist culture of South Korea is a stark difference.  Language and ethnicity cannot account for the difference but ideas about the nature of government, the individual, religion and property do.
      
      Of course it is culture - it is always culture.  Some cultures burden their people with a brutal and unshakeable inferiority.

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         livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm on the political left, but I agree with you here. Culture is just about everything, and humans are very much malleable in terms of their values.

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            undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It is inarguable that the reason the US is prosperous is culture.  Max Weber made it rather clear.
            
            AH HA - middle ground - maybe - let's watch and see

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               Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               A lot also has to do with where a country is located. Countries where there are more droughts and natural disasters can`t always get ahead to start with. Or countries that don`t have many natural products like oil to sell to the rest of the world.

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                  livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sometimes those natural resources are a curse. They stall development, because development isn't necessary.

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                     undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     That is an idea that Fareed Zachariah offers in "The Future of Freedom."  I am sure it didn't originate with him but he does offer it as a reason for tha oil rich economies not developing any other kind of economic resource.

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                     Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Very true. Venezuela and other oil-dependent countries are good examples.

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               Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Please elaborate, as a former student of the social sciences, and familiar with Weber's views on culture, your comment makes no sense!?

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  There are many reasons for American prosperity. Undermyhat has a habit of oversimplification.

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                     undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protes … Capitalism

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                        Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The central premise of that book has been discredited countless times, a simple mathematical anlysis of protestant population increase or decrease vs economy will shown not only no correlation but often the opposite of what Weber was saying.

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                        Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm thoroughly familiar with the concept of the protestant ethic. Of course it's a relevant factor, but not THE only factor in US success. You will say almost anything to try to defend the Mittster's gaffes.

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                     Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, and when discussing the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism he's also missed the point somewhat. The notion of working hard for little monetary reward but a place in heaven, underpins the protestant thesis. The lower classes were manipulated into accepting crumbs from the cake, which is why this thesis is often discussed within the context of religion and social control. Had undermyhat been referring to Weber's analysis of class and position in society, his comments may have made a little more sense, I would not have agreed with him, but may have understood where he was coming from.

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8. 60

   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   "Israel GPD $235.446 billion (PPP; 2011 est.)" From Wikipedia.
   "$3 billion per year is not chump change; but it is hardy an amount that would “bankrupt” the USA, and it is not much more than America’s annual aid to Egypt." From some article.

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9. 78

   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   Re: Olympics. No. His "disconcerting" remarks had to do with preparedness and security. London was ready and the games seem to be going just swimmingly (little USA joke there).
   Re: Israel. His remark on superior culture of Israel may have been a gaffe or may have been deliberate. Let's be clear on why Romney is there. He's there to raise the ire of the Arab world so he can pander to the Jews back home. He's doing a fine job.
   
   This closing line from an OpEd by WashPo's Eugene Robinson says it well.
   
   "Romney wants to project bold confidence. Instead, he radiates blind certainty. All around the world, people can tell the difference."
   
   What other swaggering chickenhawk from recent POTUS memory does this remind us of? 
   
   
   Read more here:
   
   http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/31/467614 … e-hes.html

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10. 63

    maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

    What are you talking about? Have you ever been to Israel or Palestine? Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't refer to Jihad for Palestine!
    In what way Romney, a man of the elite, is right? Because he picked Israel? He just follows what most powerful people in the US do! He just follows the money! After all isn't he the doggy of the king of the casinos (who finances his campaign) who happens to be Israeli (more than American I guess!)?
    As for Lech Walesa, what can you expect from a former miner? As long as Americans give jobs to Poland at whatever rate of exploitation who gives a damn, right?

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       Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Romney was sucking up to Sheldon Adelsen the pimp casino billionaire who said he would contribute $100 million to defeat Obama.

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          Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 11 years ago

    Seems Romney is saying he was misquoted... again
    
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/31/r … n-culture/

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       Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       if I'd made a statement like that, I'd deny it, too.

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    Matthew Kirkposted 11 years ago

    I'm not sure where you get your info from, perhaps the coverage really is poor, apart from seating there is no other indication these olympics don't have the draw or are inferior in any way, in fact quite the opposite with regards to the majority of international feedback...

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    mikelongposted 11 years ago

    I don't call it the "Protestant" work ethic....but rather the "Indentured Servant" ethic...or even "sweatshop" ethic.  For early elite colonials, like the Mason family, for example, "work" had a completely different meaning....and nothing near what their indentured servants and slaves performed.

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       undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       There are only two factors in the success of a society - genetics and culture.  If one insists that genetics determines than one is a racist.  If one insists that culture determines and is a conservative then one is a racist.  It must be, must always be, Nature or Nurture.  Why do Palestinians who destroy productive greenhouses, built by Jews and surrendered in the withdrawal from Palestinian territory, go hungry?  Nature or Nurture?  genetics or Culture?  Romney said culture and he was right.
       
       And Obama believes the same thing.  If he didn't why would his daughters attend some tony private school instead of the DC public schools?  If he didn't why would he live in an upscale Chicago neighbohood instead of the Southside?
       
       If it isn't true than why is Israel's GDP greater than the GDPs of The Palestinian Territory, Jordan, Yemen, Tunisia and Oman- combined- with a population of only 7.4 million.

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          Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          ...and location and natural assets...

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             undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             What natural assets does Israel have that Lebanon, Syria, Egypt do not?  What natural assets does Hong Kong have?  What natural assets does South Korea have that North Korea does not?  Geography may be a foctor but if the culture isn't geared toward productivity, self improvement and individuality than it makes far less difference than it should.  Italy and Germany are good examples with in developed democratic states or how about Germany , France and Italy versus Spain, Portugal and Greece.  Or how about UK and France?  Or Canada and Mexico - given the climate of Canada and its small population shouldn't one expect Canada to be the poorer country?

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             livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             That would explain why, for instance, Norway is richer than Sweden, but not why both are much, much more developed than most other countries. Sweden has virtually no useful resources, and its location is useless except that it is close to other prosperous, developed countries with similar cultures.

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                undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Would they equally as prosperous if one was run by Kim Jumg-un?  Why has Sweden produced some well known quality cars with no significant resources if not for culture?

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       Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Quite.

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14. 72

    glendoncabaposted 11 years ago

    With no desire to be politically correct here are the reasons nations are prosperous:
    
    1.  The sovereignty of God.  See Daniel 2 for the pageant of nations, and Daniel 5:25-28 for God's judgment against Belshazzar.
    
    2.  Investment in education, military, and technology.  Such as the superior naval and military technology of the seaborne empires of the age of discovery.
    
    3.  Culture inclusive of religious and political philosophy.  Japanese, Chinese, American prosperity hinge on the fundamental principles that motivate them.
    
    3.  Nations may enjoy comparative advantage in genetics such as the fast twitch gene in West Africans, but in order to be sustained then the nurture factor must be present such as the Jamaican dominance of sprinting because of the fine tradition of youth training and competition, as I have written in my hub on the Jamaican sprint factory. 
    
    Having said the above I want to suggest that in this bold new world I am seeing alternative views of true happiness such as the move to complementary medicine and simpler greener living.  The concept of prosperity which has dominated the debate in the post industrial world has evolved.  Enjoy this illustration from a sermon 'Wanting more, and more, and more'  by Pastor Ovidiu Radulescu
    
    A FULL LIFE
    
    A boat docked in a tiny Mexican village. An American tourist complimented the Mexican fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.
    
    "Not very long," answered the Mexican.
    
    "Well, then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the American.
    
    The Mexican explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.
    
    The American asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"
    
    "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, play the guitar, and sing a few songs. I have a full life."
    
    The American interrupted, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat.
    
    "With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers. Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant.
    
    "You can then leave this little village and move to Mexico City, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From there you can direct your huge enterprise."
    
    "How long would that take?" asked the Mexican.
    
    "Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years," replied the American.
    
    "And after that?"
    
    "Afterwards? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the American, laughing. "When your business gets really big, you can start selling stocks and make millions!"
    
    "Millions? Really? And after that?"
    
    "After that you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take siestas with your wife, and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends."

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       Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       +1

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          Matthew Kirkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          This is an offensive and ignorant post, don't forget completely pointless and idiotic.

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             undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Such a strong and reasoned argument - awesome.  Thanks for contributing.  I look forward to reading more.

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       undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Now I just want to go home from work and take a nap.  A little romanticized but who doesn't dream these things.

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       glendoncabaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I would also submit that where nations with superior military technology encounter/defeat a less developed people we end up with exploitation and centralisation of wealth and power.  Europe underdeveloped Africa and Latin America. 
       
       Let us not be too quick to compliment the North without understanding that their immense "success" was built on the blood, sweat, and tears of the South.  (As in the global North/South divide). 
       
       Just a little help from the almost outdated Development paradigm.

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    Will Apseposted 11 years ago

    What I most enjoyed about Romney's tour is that he condemns national health services as part of 'entitlement culture' but he can happily visit Israel where apparently the citizenry is entitled to US tax dollars in perpetuity.
    
    In 2007, the Bush Administration and the Israeli government agreed to a 10-year, $30 billion military aid package.
    
    The population of Israel is about 8 million people!
    
    As for the Palestinian economy-- it is amazing that they are so productive in an occupied country. Especially when it is cut into smaller and smaller parcels of land each year by Israeli roads that Palestinians may not use (or even pass under without long delays at military checkpoints).
    
    It is also worth remembering that Israeli local authorities control about one third of the West bank.
    
    Power, water and sanitation are readily provided to Israeli settlements. Bulldozers deal with illegal Palestinian building (illegal because Israeli local authorities generally will not give planning permission to Arabs).
    
    How many US or European business people could operate in that kind of environment at all?

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       Matthew Kirkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       +1

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       undermyhatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       True, not too many businesses of any type could function when under regular rocket attacks.
       http://www.quora.com/How-many-rockets-a … nto-Israel

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    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    The unfilled seats belonged to sponsors. The public would have bought them given the chance.  You only had to read the second sentence of any news story on the subject to know that.

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       Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Isn't it odd, tho, that so many sponsors have stayed away?
       WTF?
       I mean, the number of empty seats is very noticeable.
       It is a shame that people who want to be inside watching the events are not inside watching the events.
       Not assigning blame here, just sad that the opportunity is passing by.

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    CASE1WORKERposted 11 years ago

    Hi
    
    Just to put the record straight
    The seats are not sponsors seats they are Olympic officials seats.
    We went to the Oympics yesterday- occupation of the seats was fluid- once a team official had seen their man they moved on- probaby had more than one session to go to
    The army although there, were very low key and it was a joy to see them watching and enjoying events
    Transport is brilliant- there is a person on every corner teling you where to go
    Catering excellent- toilets etc were spotless
    No build up of trash in the bins as emptied very frequently
    Staff polite and helpful
    Pubic transport is the main way to get there so low carbon footprint
    Buildings already have a use in the future
    LOCOG have done a brilliant job!
    I think Mr Romney may wish he had not damned it so much-

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    Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago

    Romney has a severe case of foot-in-mouth disease. Rumor has it that he's going to outsource his public comments and unscripted interview sessions.

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