Is Atheism really just another religion or faith based concept?

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   Ericdierkerposted 8 years ago

   Is Atheism really just another religion or faith based concept?
   
   It seems like the notions that there is a God or there is not a God, are both founded in belief because there is not proof either way. Well there is proof, but not conclusive in either direction. So aren't organizations with set forth principles that are somewhat based in a faith religions. My premise is that Atheism is just another belief system that is a religion unto itself.

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2. 85

   gmwilliamsposted 8 years ago

   
   
   Atheism is not a religion.  Atheism is an ethical &/or moral concept.  Religion means a belief or relationship with God, a deity, or a supernatural being.  Atheists do not believe in the concept of God or a supernatural being.  They maintain that there are forces beyond the physical but they do not deem such forces as God. 
   
   Atheists believe that whatever force there is, is not involved in the everyday machinations of life.  They also aver that such a force is neutral & non-judgmental regarding the affairs of men.  They strongly avow that the concept of God & religion are man-made constructs instituted with the purpose of keeping people ignorant, immature, & powerless.
   
   Atheist have a logical, analytical approach to ethical & moral issues.  They are not ones to blindly follow religion or have a blind belief in God because of the majority societal consensus.  They contend that blind belief & obedience are not logical in scope.  They believe in using analytical, deductive, & inductive logic in their quest.  In addition to that, they believe in using empirical analysis.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Check out new definition of religion -- the first one backs up your thought here the rest do not. You said "Atheists believe" and not "atheists know". Isn't that of the least bit of interest to you? I do not like being considered religious but I am.

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      Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You are arguing semantics, Eric.  Perhaps it might be better stated as...."hold the position of", rather than "believe", but the point is quite clear regardless.  Religion has a focal point of worship, does it not?  God, money, a rock or a tree.

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      Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Don't confuse religion with theism. There are also a ton of atheistic and polytheistic religions too.

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      Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Theism is merely a belief in God, whether that be in adherence to one or many.  One could be a theist & not be religiously inclined, true.  I would put Deism in that category, but there is little confusion between Theism & its respective reli

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   dashingscorpioposted 8 years ago

   
   
   When I think of religious dogma it usually has to do with groups of people meeting and following a manuscript or book that has been handed down which offers them instructions on to think and live within accordance.
   Generally there is a ceremony of induction, baptism, or other custom one must experience in order to make their transition into the fold.
   There is also usually an effort made to recruit new membership.
   Everyone is {born an atheist} until they are (taught) a religion.
   There are no weekly meetings, special day of the week for observances, one does not have to jump through any hoops to become an atheist.
   They simply don't (believe) there is a father to the universe who guides the lives of every living thing. Nor do they believe events spoken of in the bible or any other religious book to be "historical facts".
   Atheists are for the most part (individuals) and not attached to one another via a particular denomination. No tithes are required or buildings needed for meetings to express beliefs or worship in.
   Without acknowledging it they are indeed in line with a couple of verses.
   John 10:34
   "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
   
   Luke 17:21
   "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is (within you)."
   The biggest misconception a lot of Christians have about atheists is the belief they have never read the bible or been exposed to it.
   In fact it's not uncommon for atheists to have a better understanding of the (history of the various religions) and how they came into being, the canonization process of the bible/how it was put together and the politics of the times. Some view it as Greek Mythology on steroids!
   Many atheists view the bible as a book of parables/fables or even possibly a philosophy containing symbolism but not literal historical facts/events. Religious people are (believers) and atheists are not.
   It's really that simple.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      FFRF?

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      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      FFRF? LOL!
      Most atheists have never heard of them! I just looked on their website and they have 22,000 members. According to the 2015 Pew Religious Landscape survey 22.8% of the U. S. is atheist (About 73 Million) FFRF is an asterisk at most:)

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      Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Why is every dividing Christians from Atheists? There are tons of other choices.

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      Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      @Besarien.  The division here comes from the fact that Christianity is the primary religious influence in the Latin West.  Even since its political collapse over 200 years ago, its mythology still influences Western culture.

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4. 84

   Austinstarposted 8 years ago

   Just show me some real physical proof of your god or gods, and I will scientifically investigate your proofs and verify the results with independent experts, and then, I promise - I will believe in your god or gods.
   Until then....
   I will continue to disbelieve in Yahweh, Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, unicorns, little green men from Mars, and any and all other make-believe entities.
   But I am not religious about it, like I said, I will accept proof.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Did you know there is other proof that is not scientific? Like "I saw him shoot her". Proof exists more in a court of law than in a laboratory.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Not true. Eye-witness testimony is the most unreliable testimony there is. I come from a family of cops and ihave seen lots of eye witness reports. They often sound like jibberish.

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   3. 46

      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Austinstar, no doubt it is sometimes lousy proof but what atheist have to understand is that it is proof. We don't like the proof or it is lousy, does not change the fact it is proof. The Holy Bible is proof that it was written. That is just a fact.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The bible is a conglomerate of 66 pieces of writing assembled by the council of nicea - none of whom were eye witnesses to the events. The books were written by people who thought the earth was flat, and owning slaves was moral. Crappy book.

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      jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Harry Potter was written down too. Does that mean that J K Rowlings works are her eye witness proof that Hogwarts exists? No, it's proof she's a creative writer. Terry Pratchett's Discworld was written, it doesn't prove Ankh-Morepork exists.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And does Spiderman exist because some book says he lives in NYC? And can perform miracles?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Try to focus here folks.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Focus on what? Your belief that the bible is the best book ever written? Try reading all of the other books out there before you make that decision. Try reading it in the original versions.

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      Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'll bet there are lots of things you believe exist that you personally have never seen physical proof of. Me too. Does Syria exist? I have never seen it. How about dark matter?

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       Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       One can take an airplane to Syria.  Dark matter is a hypothesis that is inferred by gravitational effects.  Religion is a collection of mythologies that proport to bear witness to an unsubstantiated claim.

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   bradmasterOCcalposted 8 years ago

   Atheism is an ambiguous label cast upon anyone that doesn't agree with those that embrace religion, usually by Christians. According to them anyone that doesn't believe in Jesus would be an atheist, hence the ambiguity.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And someone who does not believe in any deity is an atheist - granted. But when the gather together with dogma such as "we should disprove" then they are a religion.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      We don't  ask you to disprove, we ask you to actually prove your god exists. Prove your Eyewitness testimony is real. Prove your dogma. Not disprove something that you think actually exists. Prove that it does exist!

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Now Religion is ambiguous as well.
      Thanks

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   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   Hi Eric , Once long ago  , I was a mislead and  much questioning youth .   I was hitch-hiking one morning , late for work and  irritable , a minister picked me up and almost immediately began to  carefully question my  thoughts on religion ,  That day he told me something I have never forgotten ...........I had said something to the effect of  " prove it " about god  .  And he said ......."Christianity is the only faith in the world that has no idol !   Simply having faith itself is enough " ,  I thought that that was kind of cool .  Watch out here though  , you're opening a can of worms !  LOL
   
   Yup , atheists have  a certain amount of  religion , at least here they do .

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   1. 46

      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I hope that we are endowed here with a tolerance. I kind of like no idol. I suppose I am guilty of designing my own faith. Crazy as it sounds I believe God is love and I love worshiping love. But I admit to being religious. I'll be careful

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric, I don't believe in a god or gods or idols. I don't care that YOU believe.But if any Christian wants me to believe in their god, they need to PROVE to me that their god exists. As soon as you do that, I will believe. Faith is just a dream.

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      Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Wait a minute, Islam doesn't have any idol nor does Judaism.  Faith factors in those religions & Christianity has a lot more symbols.  Cross.  Fish.  Cesare Borgia's face as Christ.  Mary.  Angels.  Devils.  Halos.  Saints.  Popes.  Bumper sticke

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What about the meteorite at Meccah that all Muslims have to kiss? The crescent moon? Jews have the wailimg wall. The star of david. What do atheists have? I am not aware of any rituals or symbols of atheism.

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      Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm speaking of the number of comparative symbols, but yes, there are sacred sites, Pagan to Whatnot.

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7. 93

   Jodahposted 8 years ago

   Let us all take a moment to kneel and pray to..Richard Dawkins. Amen.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Amen

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      Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with Dawkins that my religious beliefs should not be inflicted on him. Religion should be voluntary and only apply to those who choose it.

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   Levi Legionposted 8 years ago

   IF atheism is a "belief system" at all, it could be defined as "the realization that humans do not know everything and a committment to searching out the facts of our existence by use of reason, logic, and evidence."
   
   Having said that, atheism in it's most basic form is a "lack of belief in a deity." Beyond that, atheists can and do hold multitudes of different views. I think part of the reason that theists try to make atheism a religion is because, for a theist, it's difficult (or impossible?) to imagine a life without a god belief. This is understandable and I can relate to this as I am a former born-again Christian. I once mistakenly thought of atheism as a religion, until I came to understand what having no god belief is really like.
   
   For the sake of clarity I must repeat: I make no positive assertions regarding the existance of a deity. That is, I don't currently "believe" in the existence of any deity, but I cannot positively claim that a deity does not exist either.
   
   In conclusion, my opening statement could be summarized as "Atheism is the method of using your brain to solve problems and answer questions."
   IF atheism is indeed "just another belief system," then what are the specific beliefs of such a system?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Darn good question you put forth. I agree that most atheists are without a faith based concept. But many have faith that God does not exist. There is no substantiating proof either way.We move into this new construct of what a religion is.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I have zero faith that a god or gods do not exist. You are wrong again, Eric.

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      Levi Legionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      A small group of atheists do claim to know that a god doesn't exist. This of course is foolish, and you and I recognize that, Eric. However, the vast majority of those who lack a god belief (atheists/agnostics) would NOT make that assertion.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I have not made that assertion either. I said, that i (meaning me, personally) do not believe in a god or gods. But i also don't place any faith in wondering about it. Perhaps you need the def of "faith" to be explained?

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      Levi Legionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Austinstar, no offense intended but everything I've said so far has been in response to Eric. My appologies if you've thought anything I've said thus far was directed toward you.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Austinstar the beauty is quite clear. You cannot prove God does no exist. Therefor you must have faith God is not anything and is a construct only of men's minds. Damned if you do not have faith he does not exist.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You cannot prove that he does exist. Call me when you can do that. Ok?

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      Levi Legionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eric, I understand that you think non-belief in a deity is having faith just like religion, but I disagree. Faith has to have an OBJECT. You believe IN something or someone. For that reason alone, atheism can't be considered faith.

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Cite something to invoke your stated truth. Belief and faith are not based in "something". God is without definition except to dictionaries that try. God is a personal thang. Look it up in websters. There is no basis for what you claim.

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       Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Eric. Stop trying to apologize for your faith or religion. You really don't  have to do that. You are free to believe whatever is is that you want to believe. Just stop asking others to believe what YOU believe.

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       Levi Legionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I disagree, Eric. Before I mentioned this did you have faith that the Mesopotamian god Nergal does not exist? Of course not. Belief is a positive action...you believe IN something.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Holy smokes -- did I ask someone to believe what I believe. I am apologetic about that. No way, my faith loves all other faiths and beliefs. If I sounded different I am sorry for that. I love my faith and live well in it. But I must respect other.

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       Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       There are all kinds of atheism. Buddhists are atheists with their own belief system. All you have to do to be a Jain is believe in non-violence, no God needed. Some people say they are atheists simply because they don't believe in god/s.

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       Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Atheism by definition is the rejection of the idea of a God or multiple gods.  If Buddhism acknowledges deities, it is not atheistic by full definition.  Not endorsing a singular God is not synonymous with Atheism.

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   M. T. Dremerposted 8 years ago

   No. Atheism is a conclusion, not a belief. Everything we've learned about science and the universe has painted a picture, absent of a god. The only suggestion we have that god exists is the stories passed down by other humans. Except, humans are unreliable narrators, with a tendency for embellishment and faulty memories. That's the whole point of science; giving us data that isn't corrupted by the human narrative, because anyone else can replicate it. A million different people can perform the same test and get the same result. And changes occur when new data is discovered, further filling in that picture.
   
   Theism is a guess that you tell other people to believe. It requires a disregard of evidence (aka faith) in order to survive. Athiesm is the default belief; it's what we have before someone tells us to believe in something else.

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      Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well said! Can i quote you?

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      Jodahposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't it funny that this sounds so much like the "climate change debate"?

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      Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How can science prove or disprove what I feel and know? Science cannot and will not prove or disprove the ethereal. If you had proof substantial that there was no God we would not have this discussion. Science cannot measure my love.

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      Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You paint a clear picture of science which I accept as an authority on how God works,. Some Christians accept science. To me a Christian follows Jesus whether he was a person or an ideal. Plus there are atheistic religions like Buddhism and Jainism.

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      M. T. Dremerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Austinstar - Of course.
      
      Eric - That's the point. God isn't measurable by science because he's a literary device. Science measures reality.
      
      Besarien - There are atheist religions, but atheism itself isn't a religion, nor is it faith-based.

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    Carb Divaposted 8 years ago

    I saw this posted on Facebook last week--"Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."

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       Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       That's a good one! Thanks!

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Linda you are right on -- ten years ago. Now look up FFRF and the third definition of religion in Websters. Marriage used to be between a man and woman. Atheism used to not be a religion. Times change. I don't like it. But so be it.

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       Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Is Buddhism not a religion? It is atheistic. Is Jainism not a religious? Jains would disagree with you if you say no. It too is atheistic. Religion is a varied and vast a concept. Atheism is in deed a religious concept.

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       Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Besarien,  Buddha did not endorse any one Deity, but Buddhism does have deities.  Green Tara, for one.  H.H. the Dalai Lama does not say Buddhism is a religion, but a Middle Way.  He states that if he has a religion, it is kindness.

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    Kayla Sperlakposted 8 years ago

    Atheism is not a "belief system," nor is it a religion. We just simply do not believe in a god. We live to please ourselves, rather than trying to please something we can't prove exists.
    
    I will admit that there are some radical atheists out there who go to lengths to prove that your god doesn't exist, but for the most part, the majority of us just want to keep to ourselves.
    
    There is no set of moral codes that we follow, and there is no uniformity that is set in place for atheists. We don't congregate in a religious building every Sunday morning, and we don't have a religious textbook. We all just prefer to do our own thing and live our own lives. Everyone has their differences though, so I can't speak on behalf of all atheists out there. But for the most part, that's just how it is.

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       Carb Divaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       If everyone shared your attitude this might be a happier place in which to live.

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       Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Are you saying atheists can't have a belief system? Do you really not have a belief system? Or do you have one that just  doesn't include belief in a god?

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       The problem I have when I hear an atheist say something like "WE believe" is that it sounds just like dogma that churches use. The FFRF sounds just like a religion. Some Christians do not even follow a church. Interesting stuff.

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       Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       The Foundation for Religious Freedom sounds like a religion to you? Freedom is not a religion. It's a political group, if it is anything that you feel you have to label. Conspiracy theorize much?

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Cool. You are saying they get a free pass because they are atheists?

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       Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Surprisingly , not all of them are atheists. Why do you assume that? They try to represent freedom for and from religion. Their goal is to get religion out of politics. Keep religion in your home and places of worship and out of other's business.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, OK I will buy that. I like it. But Websters is usually on the mark with definitions and their third states this about religion: : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group. Religion ain't just churchy.

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       Austinstarposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Washing your hands can become religious. NOT washing your hands isn't religious. I don't  care what your THIRD definition says.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Good for you

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    emgeposted 8 years ago

    Its an excellent question. In a way I agree Atheism is another religion. In fact its a fad followed by pseudo intellectuals. I wonder whether they really believe in what they say. Atheism is just a fad and survives as some people want to stand out from the crowd. Its no philosophy in real sense

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       Levi Legionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       It's hardly a fad. The ranks of those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nonreligious continue to swell each passing year. I can relate to your difficulty in understanding a lack of belief in a god, as was once a theist myself. It's not going away

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       Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       @Madan, As in the pursuit of knowledge is a fad? As in the Enlightenment?  As in one man's God is another man's false idol?  I've no stake either way, but Atheism a fad?  Surely, you  jest.  Please support your definition of "fad"?

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       Besarienposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       If you believe atheism is a religion or at least a religious choice then show a little respect for it. Why run down other people's beliefs? Is your own so weak you need other people's to seem like less in comparison?

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    Besarienposted 8 years ago

    No atheism isn't a single religion. However there are atheistic religions. Therefore atheism can be a faith-based concept, though perhaps is not one universally. These are religions where belief in god or gods is unnecessary. Buddhism is a major one. Jainism, Quakers, Unitarian Universalists, even the Church of England has atheist membership. What atheists do believe is largely a question left up to individual atheists. All atheism means is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Some atheists may also be anti-religious, and anti-spiritual, but none of that is absolute amongst all atheists. Also many former theists are now atheists. While many former atheists have found god or gods. What a person believes is fluid and often a heartfelt response to or reflection of his own life experiences. Some believe that belief/disbelief is a product of genetics. Identical twins often either both believe or both disbelieve, even those raised separately.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Wow that is a great response. I think I am having trouble with when I person says "we believe". That just sounds like the Nicene creed or a statement of shared belief. Websters does not even require a "shared".

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       Taopiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I agree that belief is fluid because Life, itself, is.  Religious membership is also not prerequisite to belief in God.  IE: Tradition may supersede belief in that context. 
       
       Eric, I think one can "believe" in precepts not religious in nature.

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    Oztinatoposted 8 years ago

    Yes.
    In a very mixed up way atheism is becoming a kind of religion based on faith in it's "infallibility".
    Atheism is now well organised around the globe with regular meetings, leaders, political agendas etc. in the same way as some religions.
    In North Korea we see the results of atheism gone mad and turning into a bizarre religious style phenomena.
    Scientology is another new atheist religion where science becomes the infallible doctrine and aliens replace angels.
    Movies such as Star Wars promote other scientific religions about mysterious "forces at work".
    Scientists are working on ways to achieve immortality in ways that certainly evolved out of religion's search for immortality.
    Dawkin's has often said it may be impossible for people not to be religious as it's an inbuilt force in humanity.
    Many atheist's are on record on HP stating that they follow Buddhism in the rationalised belief it's not a religion, yet Buddhists have temples, prayers, gods, chants etc.

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       Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       What I like are the comments that start out "Atheists don't...." making it sound as though all Atheists think the same. And then the "we" statements. And in the same line they deny a dogma or commonly held belief.

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    tamarawilhiteposted 7 years ago

    Atheism is a denial of a higher power/powers. However, given how many atheists then read horoscopes or are devout environmentalists saying we have to save the earth with religious fervor, or per Sargon of Akkad's videos on how SJWs are a cult, the religious impulse comes out in other ways.

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