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I don't believe Obama to be a coward.
I do beleive he is doing what any good Mulsim would do in dithering and pulling out. He is giving Islam in Afghanistan the time it needs to recoup and re-arm.
He, Obama, as a Muslim, is bound to assist other Muslims in any way he can.
So I expect he'll do alot more to help them defeat our army. Anywhere in the world the U.S. Army is engaged against Islam.
Just Give it up America, Afghanistan is lost!
He's not a coward... well, not a complete coward, at least. I dare say he is full of faults, as they all are, in every case, always. (presidents, I mean). He might well be a coward for not scorching those a-holes in the financial sector who almost brought the world crashing to its knees; that I could go for; not enough punishment meted out there, for my tastes.
He's also not a Muslim. Oh, well, at least it makes for some giggles to keep reading this. But let's say he was. I don't know if you noticed, but your military is in Afghanistan (in part, so I understand, correct me if I'm wrong) to given the Afghan people some kind of decent government, and life..., and wasn't this (part of) the justification for deposing Saddam too: well, I don't know if you know this, BUT AFGHAN CIVILIANS AND IRAQIS ARE MUSLIMS. In other words, the US military, insofar as its mission is humanitarian is *defending Muslims*.
And guess what, let's look at some of the US's allies: Saudi Arabia: Muslims, Egypt: Muslims, Pakistan: Muslims. So knock of the whole Muslim business. It's silly
So?... we're defending muslims. What's your point? That he as a muslim would not defend muslims? And as far as our suppossed allies. have you seen what they teach in their Madrasses in regards to America and the West, Christians and Jews?
I had no idea Obama was a Muslim! I wonder if Obama knows?
What I do know is that Obama is a president with a lot on his plate. He has inherited a mess and is doing his best to sort things out. I wish him luck.
Maybe a Texan might be annoyed with Obama over new gun laws? It's a thought. I reckon a coward wouldn't take on the job of US president in these difficult times. My take.
Yeh dear, America has no other choice except to GIVE UP. But Obama is not a true Muslim, a deviated one and he has done nothing for Muslims rather supported Zionism A-Z.
He's not a deviated Muslim. Aarrrgggh. He was raised in a white, Christian household, and attends a church as an adult, now. Not that I care what he is. But, please, get it right, at least. And in any case, who are *you* to say what a true Muslim is? You are starting to sound like that looney-tune Osama, which I am sure you have no desire to be compared to; so stop judging how others may or may not practice their religion.
And here is a news flash, the US is *defending* Muslims in Afghanistan. It's true he's pretty soft on Israel, which is a disappointment, frankly. It's also true that Afghan and Iraqi civilians are getting killed all the time in these conflicts. This is inexcusable, really, in my book. But, all the same, the Americans are *not* deliberately targeting Muslims for being Muslims; that is absolute garbage (and don't forget, I am not an American) -- if you believe that you've bought into the garbage that al Qaeda is trying to infect people with.
The Americans are *not* fighting Muslims, or Islam, because they are Muslims. They are not. They are fighting the Wahhabis, and those who think like them, period. That's all.
Be careful, your ignorance is showing.
at the expense of his own country?
i can't imagine anyone being that evil. those are pretty extreme comments...
For the last freaking time, the US army is *not* engaged against Islam -- the US army is full of Muslims fighting for America, for a start, and it is out there defending Muslim Afghans and Iraqis from creeps who think it's a good idea to blow themselves up in market places.
Treason, happens all the time in this world. And if his faith is his most important loyalty. What would he be betraying? Nothing.
is he indeed a Muslim? i always thought that was just a rumor...
Yep. He's a Muslim who goes to church. Lots of them around, didn't you know
ah-ha, that's right. didn't he belong to a christian church, over which reverend wright presided? i remember now, the united church of christ...so he can't be a muslim then.
Actually, you look like a muslim on your avatar. I guess you should have an insider knowledge...
Yeah I do!!! Call homeland security!!!
I don't have to propagate anythig for Islam. Just read their own Scholars, Jurists and Theologions.
It is pretty simple.
If you don't believe what those who know in Islam say. Then thats your problem.
And. individualy Muslims can be okay people. Like anyone else.
But that doe's not negate the intent of the Qu'ran and Mohhammud.
Simple as that.
You can say what you want to me.
I don't have to argue it.
Just read their own words. -(but of course their own words rebutt you, so you cannot use them.)- You know, like the Qu'ran and Hadis, and all the scholars and the learned Muslims. Who have no problem telling you honestly. Thier motivation is Islam.
They will continue till all state, "Allah is the one true God and Mohhammud his prohet" No shame in their game.
I actually like that they are honest, and tell the truth.
Don't take it up with me, take it up with them.
It's simple and funny.
Just curious, where do you get your information? And what are you smoking? Perhaps you should stick to writing novels??
A very good imagination by TMMason indeeed!
Because he studied in a muslim surroundings, it will never make him muslim. He is originally an African. There is no religion in Africa. USA will never help Afganistan. And also, the technique of regrouping and rearming is not familiar among muslims.
Afganistan is an ancient country, on the mouth of Khyber pass in the Himalayas. It served as the servicing centre for westerners on their way along the Silk Route. It was formerly (upto 11th century AD) a Hindu kingdom, one among 56 states in the Indian federation. The first muslim ruler there is Md. Ghori. On these circumstances, even if US loses and quits Afganistan, India will finish the task.
One person called Obama does not make a great nation called America. He is sending more troops to catch the culprits there.
Differing with you on a point does not mean that I need to study more. I am analysing those points from my end. Please check up when was Islam religion established. Before that,no one was a muslim.
Sind is Sind and not Islamic Sind. Hind does not refer to any particular country. Dont mix religion with region. If you go 1500 years back, why dont you go back further? Islam is now in Afganistan... now only. If you go back, Kandahar is Gandhara, the kingdom of father-in-law of Dridarashtra, father of Gauravas in Mahabaratha. And Hindukush region was ruled by a Hindu King. Local rivalry in Delhi invited Ghori and he defeated both the contenders to the throne, and established his own. Going back to his country, he established a Islam there also.
Now, by fate and providence and God's wish, they are there. If they misuse that area, it will come back to originality.
Coastal regions of west Africa may have provided some resting places for muslim maritime traders.
All my info stands bro. islam was well in swing come 650. So?... Momos hajj was 622? So whats your point? Islam was there,.. no doubt about it.
But. Be that as it may
I will not have the question degenerate into another issue. Like Hindus vs Islam in india and afghanistan.
So lets stick to the topic.
God, this just gets zanier and zanier. "There is no religion in Africa" -- are you on drugs?
It's true that Obama's middle name is a Muslim name, so we can guess that his father had a Muslim connection (perhaps he was even a Muslim). Of course he didn't grow up with his father; his mother was a single mom, a white American Christian single mom.
He spent some time in a Muslim country as a child so it is certainly possible he has some sympathy for Islam -- so what; so do I. It doesn't make me a Muslim. And I'm not one. Nor am I sympathizer with terrorists.
I have some sympathy for Christianity -- that doesn't make me a Christian, and I wouldn't call myself one.
And it *certainly* doesn't make me a sympathizer with those fruits of the loom who, like some crazy evangelist, think they can speak for all Muslims while they blow themselves to smithereens -- usually killing Muslims, in fact, who they deem to be "impure" (they are truly freaks).
Obama is a *Christian.* He was lambasted during his campaign for belonging to a church led by a bit of a loon himself. I mean, either he followed that church or he didn't -- or was he a ChristMuslimian sort of thing.....
As for Afghanistan. India is not going to have any more luck if it tries than NATO is having. I mean, the place is gigantic, and it is mainly mountains.... say no more.
It is tragic. Extremely tragic, that American troops are being killed, as well of course as Canadians, Dutch, French, Italian, British, I could go on... and as well, of course, as many *Afghan civilians.* It's tragic that this freak Osama bin Laden was ever born.
But none of this is *remotely* related to Obama's religion -- want to know why? Because, like them all, he wants to get reelected and he knows the world is watching; he's no different from any politician -- he won't let his personal feelings risk his desire to keep in office.
Any person can be said to belong to a particular religion, only when he fully understands the nature, purpose, and other facts about that religion. You cant thrust it on an ignorant poor man and "brand him as muslim". I accept that there is Islam in Egypt, Morocco and Libya.
Afganistan is one of our neighbours and we know the nook and corner of it. For sometime, in history, both were one country. One of our old Hindi films (Dharmathma) was shot there and you can see the beautiful side of Afganistan in it. It is not so large as you imagine. It is less than one of our medium size states in India. The mountains in Afganistan is the starting point for the Great Himalayas, on our northern borders. The population is just 1%. Just because Nato and US are doing our job, we feel happy. That is all.
During the Taliban regime, one of our planes was hijacked to Kandahar and the then Indian Govt. thought of rescueing them with force. Had the relatives of the captive passengers not pleaded, our govt. would have stormed it and rescued them.
If there is no religion in Africa. Then how is his father a Muslim? And how were he and his father, and his father's father before him, born into a Muslim family?
And what about the Sudan and the genocide in Darfur. Thats Islam at is best there. You should fly over and tell them to leave,... "There is no religion in Africa. Get out!"
Lemme know where that gets you.
There is religion in Africa. To say there isn't is assinine.
And Obama attended a Christian church that best suited his Muslim sensabllities.
And. You ever heard of a thing called Tiquiyya? It is an old concept in Islam embedded with the Qu'ran itself. And practiced faithfully by many, many, Muslims.
And here is the next question that ought to piss mny of you off.
This is one of the most ignorant, wrongheaded posts I've seen yet in these forums.
1. No, studying in Muslim surroundings will not MAKE one a Muslim, but it's hardly a logical conclusion that he's NOT a Muslim simply because he studied with them.
2. Obama is not an African. He was born in Hawaii, and is of bi-racial decent. His dad was black, his mother was white, which would make him a bi-racial American.
3. "Africa" is a continent, not a country. It contains 53 countries, many of which are among the MOST religious in the world, primarily Christian and Muslim.
if Obama is like that, i dont think he is a coward then
This coward bit is nothing compared to youtube discussions. 100s of videos claim Obama is SATAN!!!!!!! Not just a Muslim!
I don't know who thought that up. Pretty ludicrous at the very least. Satan is Satan, Obama is Obama. Whether or not he is an instrument for satan's cause may be debatable, but then God says that there are no powers or leaders in their place without His oversight.
So, in that sense, God's will WILL be done no matter what.
Satan means "adversary", and there are many adversaries to God's plan(s).
However, satan is a DEFEATED adversary, so.....relax, and trust God.
Not only are they claiming he is satan but as well as the "Messiah"
I however do not approve of anything that Obama is doing. The only thing he is doing really well is deceiving the people of America.
It is wise to question the value of any contributor who sees everything an administration does as wrong. At that point we're probably looking at a good old-fashioned sore loser because no President is 100% right or wrong. I'm sorry about your election defeat but, if the same side always won, then it wouldn't really be a democracy anymore, would it? Critical thinking is your friend. Good citizens don't receive their thinking points from the blow-hards on talk radio - we examine the issues for ourselves.
And that, in itself speaks volumes about their intelligence!
hehehehehehehe - the world thanks you, America, for providing us so much online entertainment ... yes he's "Satan", not "just" a Muslim.... ahh yes, will it ever end.
Look, it's good to criticize Obama -- but try and stay in the real world while you do...
We (or at least I) thank you for helping (ok, rescuing) Western Europe from the Nazis, and then from Stalin. We also thank you for the "infrastructure stimulus package" on a gigantic scale given to Europe after the Second World War. Thank you also for getting rid of the imperialistic Japanese military government -- really, they were nasty business.
Thanks also for the scientific research and development. Thanks also for coming up with a system of government whereby we don't have to listen to bunch of kings and lords tell us what to do.
No question, America has given the rest of us a lot.
Just too bad about a lot of other things (Bush in particular). But really, thank God you're the only superpower and not Putin's Russia, for example... If I had to choose...
(Actually I wrote a hub on this, because in fact I think it's a complicated issue; come take a look, if you feel like it...)
Please keep Bush next time though, and as for that Cheney guy.... eeek
Only if you do something about the French, show em how to use deodorant, shave an armpit, do something or I'm gonna nominate Jeb Bush for President!
Your welcome. Thank you. You know how many kids from Euroe I hear state that Russia was the saving force behind WWII and that Russia saved britain. Man?...
But. Thank you as an American.
Russia did do an enormous amount, it is true. I wouldn't deny that for one second. Their sacrifice was colossal (and they also fought the Japanese). But, I mean, they were invaded, so it is hardly surprising they got involved...
Now, it must be remembered that the US government refused to get involved until Pearl Harbour, but I was really talking about the average troops, not the govt.
I respect OBAMA still but I am not his fan, majority of Americans voted for him,
Radicals and non-thinkers are always ready to call someone Satan. Obama is a human being that just so happens to have been put on a huge pedestal because that's the way of the world. He is full of defects and shortcomings just like you and me. We placed him in a position where he can send our loved ones to a dangerous and hopeless war. No matter who we would have placed in Washington, they would have done the same thing. We have war leaders like McCrystal and hundreds of others who have a HUGE stake in this war, who stand to lose their obscenely huge paychecks if the war comes to an end. Let's not forget the pipeline that is being built through Afghanistan. I write all about that. Alot of people are gonna get to be billionaires from this war but not the average American and certainly not the regular joe in uniform. These future billionaires lobby the president and put the pressure on big time. Obama is in the pockets of power and money weilding entities that have access to all the buttons and levers in government. The Taliban has informed the White House (President Obama) several times that they are done with Al-Qaida. They are ready to come to the table. What happened to diplomacy? Washington is not interested in talk they are interested in BIG MONEY at the cost of lives. Blood for Oil. The few will prosper at the cost of many. The Hindu, India, Muslim connection is neither here nor there. Who cares. That's the way of America.
I thought that muslims were the same as wickens. I don't know about the satan thing satans pretty smart.
I have no clue as to whether or not Obama is a coward. That designation refers to an internal, subjective state, i.e. caving in to fear. Who am I to know what the man is thinking or feeling?
What he is DOING (and/or not doing) is another matter entirely.
As for his "decision" on Afghanistan, it would seem to make one thing pretty clear: If he ever read Sun Tzu on The Art of War, he certainly neither comprehended nor retained the information therein. No competent military tactician announces his entire battle plan to the enemy.
Maybe he is throwing out some bait? I'm sure there is something about that in the Art of War.
Obama and competent do not belong in the same sentence. I think he may be using Gomer Pyles military tactics, ShaZaaaaam!
"No competent military tactician announces his entire battle plan to the enemy" Unless you are obama - who wants to appease the world; making the USA the enemy.
You're right, that was rude. I just don't understand why ANY president would want to make things bad for America. Why would the leader of a country want that for his own country? I mean, at the least, I am sure he wants to be re-elected...
i think our prez is doing a great job. it is tough job and he is doing his best. if you disagree then, next term , you should run for prez. otherwise dont complain.
That is a very poor attempt at being an apologist for the president, and not at all how politics (or anything else) works.
@ tksensei I specifically do not vote for presidents becuase I do not enjoy complaining about someone as important as him. i hate listening to people who just moan and groan about how our government sucks. i am not republican,liberal, or democrat. Either way our presidents do what they ( and other gov't branches ) think is best. Every 4 years its the same thing, people who vote always complain about who is prez, even if you voted for the guy who one, you will find something about him to complain about. no need to argue that, as this is the way it has always been and will continue to be. I remember i was down in florida when bush won by a few votes. 2 years later i went on vacation to same spot and listened to the people who voted for bush now complain that he sucks. and 2 years later they voted for him again. hmmm....
What has the president done? beats the hell out of me, but after I googled it I found this which was pretty cool. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_has_Pres … one_so_far
Blaming the president for the americas problems doesnt make it better does it?
thats like blaming Bernake for this credit crisis! when in reality Ben Bernake has saved our royal butts! he is the only person who is fit for that job at this point in time. his whole life was made for this moment in history. There was a great articles about it in
I am originally from NH so I think i can understand a little about where you are coming from, but it all reverts back to 2 points. In my opinion i think all presidents will always try to do whats best for our country. and 2nd, i dont vote for a reason and i have no say in he is doing a good/bad job. plus this is just a fun, biased forum post. :-)
i would rather not saying anything, then sit there and complain and speak bad of people who try. which would you rather listen to?
When you choose not to vote that's just what you do, and you throw away any voice you might rightly have anyway.
Where are we and why are we in this handbasket?
This is just sad!!
NO. I just like to see the most passionate arguments in defense of, or against.
So,... stirring the pot is a pre-requisite.
I would say Bush was the coward in all this, when he should have sent US forces on the ground to fight the coward whent and bomb a defenceless country called Iraq. He did it because it was doable LOL Spoken as a true COWARD. It's a worse crime than a strong healthy man robing an old lady
The question is about "Obama's" plan. Not Bush's. Man alot of you liberals just cannot accept that Obam's plan is to cut out.
In the real world it is called, "Surrender". Not "Bush's Plan".
Uhhhh, Kuwait is a defenseless Country, Iraq was a haven for terrorists and other scumbags! But not anymore.
What he should do is instead of sending 30th troops to Afghanistan to train their army and police force. What he could do is train them in America, but still send the troops deploy then on the Afghanistan Pakistan border to show their bravery. The enemy is just some guys with cloth around their heads. Just go in and fight them hand to hand, we all know we'll get our ass kicked.
Iraq was not a haven for terrorists; Saddam used to string them up, along with anyone else that so much as whiffed of opposition to him... and they used to try and target him for being too secular. He was indeed vermin, but he would have made a good ally in the "war on terror."
Ever been to Iraq? Saudi? Kuwait? Ever been to Beirut,Libya? I bet you haven't, I think I will stick with firsthand knowledge instead of the Hubpages debriefing!
I say fight if were going to, or bring the troops home.
I would rather fight. But. That requires the desire and will to win. So. I don't see it happening.
And to who ever that was. I will complian and rant and scream about your president, or anyone I want, all I want. It is why so many Americans have died throughout history. So I can complain.
"American troops went to afghanistan and Iraq to protect Muslims" DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT?
Well there is no reason for americans,dutch, English, etc...to make such great sacrifice for these Arabs/Muslims....just leaaaaaaaaaaave their countries......No? aha then don't pretend that you are trying to protect them. You want to control it, occupy it, steal their oil, whatever it is, it is NOT that you want to protect them...
and Obama is not a Muslim, of course.
We went to Afghanistan to kill terrorists and the Taliban. Thats what the military does, kill people and blow shit up, I wouldn't want it any other way!
I don't know about this; I am sure there are stacks of goodhearted American soldiers who are over there trying to help; especially as they get to see the poverty first hand...
Darfour....how can that be related to Islam or to any religion. Why do you americans insist that every thing that some twisted man (like Bin Laden) is a belief is Islam...I just want to deliver one thing:
These people in darfour/terrorists/taliban/bin laden, etc..DOES NOT represent Islam. They represent stupidity in its darkest forms, and linking them to Islam is just a crime...this is why the world now is islamophobic...if a christian kills or blows something his religion is not mentioned, when a criminal who happens to be a muslim shoots some one...The whole world attacks islam and say that muslims teach their children hate and etc...
(((It is why so many Americans have died throughout)))
do you know how many Arabs died since AMERICA occupied Iraq or since desert wolf?
In fairness, bin Laden himself keeps insisting this, even if he is a looney tune, and out of step with almost every imam or mullah on the planet, in fact.
But hey, the Pope claims to represent Christianity, and he won't let poor people in AIDS stricken countries wear condoms, so...
I seem to recall seeing many Arabs cheering as those twin towers fell, I don't remember a lot of Muslims speaking out against those responsible!
You've got camera emplacements on all the streets of all the cities in the Muslim world, I take it. Don't you realize that a very small number of media outlets (you know, the ones with "liberal bias" ) have control over what you "see." In fact, the truth is that virtually every country in the world spoke out in support of you, in September of 2001, Muslim or otherwise.
As for American Muslims, they represent less than one percent of the population -- exactly how were they supposed to get media air time.
I think there was footage of some Palestinians cheering -- but the Israeli/Palestinian issue is a very specific one: Palestinians perceive the US as supporting the Israelis...
I still don't hear or see any speaking out and don't count on seing any any time soon.
The Muslims hated Christianity and the west long before America and hated us long before Iraq.
That's because you were watching CNN, dear! Many people hated Saddam....but everyone hated the U.S. troops even more
Do you really think all Arabs are Muslims. You would be surprised to learn some Arabs are actually Americans, Christian, and born in the US. My grandpa served in the Navy during World War II, and yes he was an Arab. No, most Arabs did not cheer like you are claiming, and the ones who did overseas were not the entire populace of those countries.
She is part Arab, and I believe her family practiced Judaism. However, there is a particular crowd here that is highly discriminatory towards anyone Arab, part Arab, or who has a non-European last name, so that is how the cookie crumbles.
What about Simon Cowell - if anyone was subverting America
Ralph Nader is Lebanese, and Jerry Seinfeld is part Syrian.
Omar Sharif is pretty cool too -- maybe if Omar Sharif was president, there wouldn't be half this cofuffle
I'm sorry, did I say all Arabs were Muslim? Did you read what was written? Don't think you did, Try again.
Texan I read well, deeply, and widely. Actually I often do not hang out on this bickering thread making narrow minded comments because I have better things to do. You really need to grow up, seriously.
I still think Paul Abdul is a serious threat to homeland security and should be arrested as soon as possible (ok, well maybe I have a hidden agenda )
Jeez. Why doesn't he glom on to males like this (just an observation)? I think TX misses the good old days when he got charged with violating defendant's civil rights. Now it is fun to follow girls around and bash them on the internet. Tuff enough, I guess.
And I was in NYC when the towers fell. I don't remember anybody cheering. I remember a lot of fear and crying and ashes that were probably the remains of people in the air for a few days.
I know there are stacks of goodhearted American soldiers who are over there trying to help.......I'm talking about the intentions of the U.S. administrations....
Obama is just another american president and in terms of international politics..he will do the same things Bush did...But he deal with internal affaisr in a different way (good luck!)...but as for the america's relation with the world....America's policies never changed (support israel, arabs are bad, we have to send troops to "some muslim country" to give them freedom, etc etc)
I think there will be some changes. And it is not completely right that American administrations have disliked Arabs: the Bush family are very friendly with the bin Laden family, for example, and Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt are US allies.
It may be true some things will stay the same. Obama is hardly being tough on Netanyahu, it's true...
(((The Muslims hated Christianity and the west long before America and hated us long before Iraq.)))
That is what exactly your government wants you to believe...That Muslims hate YOU and they wanna KILL YOU, etc..We don't hate you, America! But we hate governments and administrations that send YOUR army to kill us, it is that simple...
The problems between Christanity and Islam are historical and Idealogical. Thats a fact. Not CNN or my Govt.
The Golden age of Islam was a myth. One cannot be living free as a Dhimmi, under Sharia.
Nice to meet you have a good nite. And I don't hate Muslims. My issues are with the Qu'ran Hadith and Shari'a. Not Muslims.
But most "Christian" Americans and Europeans are not *really* believers, as well you know, and based on the many "Muslims" I have known, most of them are not particularly religious, either -- so I'd like to know who's having these theological debates; on both sides, the masses don't seem that interested in religion.
As for a Golden Age, well, it's all relative. Compared to the tribal Arab society that Islam replaced, it was probably a welcome change; and don't forget that, at that time, Europe was ruled by kings, popes and the Catholic Church -- are you saying that was preferable? Or freer?
Oh you didn't hear me say that now. No no.
Those arab muslims in the middle east and the Muslims in the south pacific and southeast Asia seem very religous to me. And they consider themselves true believers.
No. I dont see many Christians acting like that, the arab muslims in the middle east, in America or Europe, or anywhere in the world for that matter.
As I am sure you know, most people who call themselves Christians are really not very devout. I promise you that most Muslims in the world are roughly as devout as most Christians -- I mean, in some places perhaps more devout than in others, but having travelled a bit in the Muslim world, I can assure you there's heaps of variation between different people.
Anyway, on a day-to-day basis most people are not thinking about religion, but about work, housework, and family. This is what everyone thinks about, whether Muslim, Christian, or whatever -- I promise you this is true (and doesn't it make sense?).
As for Arabs, one in six Arabs is Christian, so.... (Christianity comes from the Middle-East, so....)
So whats your point?
Your still completely off on Islamic Scholars and their beliefs and views in regards to Al'quaeda, or any other terrorist group. Or radical Islam in general. Radical Islam, is Islam as it was written and lived by the prophet.
Those scholars do not disagree with them. And Muslims tend to take their religion alot more serious that Christians.
All Muslims think about religion on a day to day basis. Islam is a way of life, total submission to God. You live your life by the strictures of Islam. Their life and everything in it is dictated by the Qu'ran.
I know it is impossible for Americans to believe that someone could be so devout to a God. But they are!
All Muslims think about religion on a day to day basis.
- You know this, because of...?
Their life and everything in it is dictated by the Qu'ran.
- You want to know the truth -- many of the "Muslims" I knew were interested in three things: getting laid, drinking booze, and getting stoned...
I know it is impossible for Americans to believe that someone could be so devout to a God. But they are
- I think Americans are very familiar with people who are so devout to a God!!!
Study Islam for a decade or so, and live among them for some long years, then tell me about Muslims.
Other than that, going to watch a movie. Nuff play time today.
And Bin Laden and them are Wahhabis, the closest you can get to them in strictist islam in a while is, Ibn Hazm. I think you would find him an insight into Bin Laden and the arab mind.
If you have honestly studied Islam for a decade or so, and lived among them for some long years, then I definitely consider your opinion much more highly than I did a few seconds ago... I still can't disqualify my own experiences, all the same - I am sure you can understand that (and in my experience, on the contrary, Muslims are actually really, really sweet, lots of fun, love to go to movies, dance, have parties, etc. etc)
I feel like the Hubpage forums have to be on some type of Secret Service watch list by now.
Yeah, and don't forget the so called Mass destruction weapons :S.
(((Bush family are very friendly with the bin Laden family, for example, and Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt are US allies. )))
The governments in these countries are not allies to the US, they are subservients..thats what Arab people know for sure...and it is a big difference..
I'm not sure about the Saudis, I'd say they've got the US by the short and curlies; I mean terrorist funding comes straight out of Saudi Arabia, they stone women for adultery in football stadiums, and the US says nothing? Let's really think about who's zooming who here...
I have to go guys, nice to meet you..
the last thing i wanna say is: (on behalf of Muslims), for God's sake...We don't hate you.!!, we respect christianity and christians and there are a few million christian arabs in the middle east, and we are living in harmony for decades, for 800 years till now.
obama himself will tell you he is not a muslim. you are confusing . opinion with assumption i think. btw asalamalakem
heres a quote . Afghanistan is like a angry mouth that can swallow Russian divisions whole. we should take a lesson from the russians. more troops more targets its a bad idea i think
(((I'm not sure about the Saudis, I'd say they've got the US by the short and curlies; I mean terrorist funding comes straight out of Saudi Arabia, they stone women for adultery in football stadiums, and the US says nothing? Let's really think about who's zooming who here...)))
ahem, a correction (I lived in KSA for 13 years)..They stone MEN AND WOMEN for adultry (if the person is married) ...and not in football stadiums, of course!!!
"and the US says nothing"...US only says anything when it is for their own benifits. If tomorrow, the US administration wanted to invade any Arab country, they will just come up with some mass destruction stuff and some terrorists who happen to live and that country and yell at britain: Let's attack them.....you know the scenario...
Having (troubles) or having different ideas/rules than christianity doesn't mean that we hate christians..
((One cannot be living free as a Dhimmi, under Sharia. ))
Well, christians are living in Saudi Arabia free..under sharia.
Your problems are with hadith and Quran?
Quran and Hadith taught me to respect christianity and judaism, and not to hate people. It's the wrong understanding of Quran that lead to all this.
Nice to meet you, too.
on a bigger note . ill post this. it is Islams duty as good Muslims to control their zealots . i see this as being imperative to the survival of religious beliefs as a whole.
wow, this sprouted into a very interesting thread. lol. were did tksensei go? he was funny.
This is what other countries think of obama, unless it's a muslum country.
religion and its misrepresentation of god ideas and intent are makeing a fool out of the grand idea of god itself . i find this to be a de evolution . in human thought
This is ACTUALLY what Western European nations think of Obama, and not NY Post-esque tabloid scandals.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor … 50,00.html
You'll notice that they are decidedly not Muslim.
I've spent my whole life either in Europe or Canada, and this is definitely the first president I've ever seen who has been able to wave a magic wand and make us all look at America with kinder eyes.
In Canada, in Britain, and in Germany, people in general have never been keen on America, in my lifetime (forty years). In all these countries I've never heard anyone defend the US (that's not true, in Canadian political discourse there is raging debate about the "goodness" or "badness" of America, and the British Conservative Party, and of course Tony Blair, tend to be pro-American in some sense)...
But, even though some of this is because he genuinely is a force for good, I think it is right to be suspicious of his "star quality"; I mean, the whole Obama girl Yuotube phenomenon tells us a lot -- just because someone has got street cred, does not mean he is perfect -- politicians should always be criticized mercilessly.
i did not vote for obama. nor do i care what other nations think of him for 4 years maybe 8 he is my prez . for better or worse. as a American i fly this flag first. on it is a snake the words read dont tread on us
sorry for the grammatical error, forum posts don't have spell check. thanks for the fix.
Obama a muslim? Where did you get that? Maybe off a cereal packet?
This is hilarious.
Is ignorance a discipline in America!
Sarah Palin and her friends also are proporting the lie he is not born in the US, so what is to be expected from that crowd. Funny how she has a big problem with any perceived bashing of her family, but she has no qualms saying things that I am sure are hurtful to the Obama. I wonder if Palin ever wonders how Sasha and Melia feel about the lies Palin and her supporters are telling about their dad.
The best thing I have seen on American Tv in a long time (apart from PBS, which rocks), is the interview with Colin Powell (remember him - Republican war hero...) where he defends all the American Muslim troops out there defending their country -- he was highly offended at all this slurring of Obama -- because being a Muslim is not an insult in fact! And this is what he was pointing out.
As for Arabs, I believe one out of six Palestinians is Christian (it is where Christianity started, after all); on the other hand, I believe five in six Muslims in the world are not Arab, so there you are...
I do not think there is anything wrong with someone being a Muslim, but there are a few here who have a big problem with it. I was even told to kiss Obama's Muslim ring the other day.
Some hubber dressed as Uncle Sam told me that on a hub where I shared Barack does not consider himself Muslim. There would be nothing wrong with him being Muslim, if he were, but the bottom line is he is not. Not sure why religion is so important these days anyway!
It matters if you're Michael J. Fox...
I do not get the Michael analogy, but thanks for sharing .
Parkinson's -- he is an advocate, and a sufferer, and thus rather annoyed at Bush for refusing to allow stem cell research - a decision based on (Christian) religion... so I guess it does matter what religion your president is. Mind you, being a Muslim is not likely to make you a sympathizer with al Qaeda, because al Qaeda are the Jehovah's Witness of the Muslim world -- they've taken things and put their own spin on things, and 99.99% of Muslim scholars would say they are out to lunch..
People often refer to it as stem cell research for short.
I was talking about "dead baby" stem cell research (sorry, couldn't resist )
Ok, I admit it, I was talking about plant stems ...
But seriously, what is this distinction, of which you speak...
<snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
Oh, well, as you know I was talking about the "dead baby' kind (just for the record, I don't actually agree with abortion, I just think that, while a ball of cells may or may not be "sacred", it is not up to some president from Texas to make that decision... between golf swings...)
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/a … _cell.html
That's the distinction I was talking about. Not sure what you may still need clarification on.
OK, gotcha -- but my comment was above:
Oh, well, as you know I was talking about the "dead baby' kind (just for the record, I don't actually agree with abortion, I just think that, while a ball of cells may or may not be "sacred", it is not up to some president from Texas to make that decision... between golf swings...)
The president is the president no matter what state he comes from. Trying to belittle the state of Texas is offensive to me as an American. President Bush acted within the scope of his authority as Chief Executive, and even those who disagreed with his decision did not contend otherwise. Finally, if you don't like presidents playing golf you are completely out of luck. The current president is a prolific golfer as well.
You're right (about the Texas thing).
I just don't think any president should be making decisions like that -- it's too much like a king...
For me, on this topic, frankly, medical people, doctors, perhaps even a round table of clergy, or something, but not a unilateral decision from the top...
That is BS.
You need to go read some Islamic Scholars before you spout what you don't know. I have quoted lots of them in the my hubs, and studied many. Go read em. They don't agree with your view in the least.
As you know Britain is full of Muslims. I worked for four years in London with all kinds of Muslims from all over the world. I also had friends in Morocco, with whom I stayed a couple of times, in Morocco. I have also stayed in, and travelled around, Palestinian areas. At one point I considered becoming a Muslim (though I must admit it was because of a girl I met in Morocco -- go figure...); the one thing I kept hearing over and over again was that Islam prohibits targeting of civilians -- over and over again.
Osama bin Laden belongs to a form of Islam that is relatively young, and that a tiny, tiny, fraction of Muslims believe in -- most of the time, this nut-cases spend their time killing other Muslims because they are not "pure" enough, or trying to overthrow governments in places like Egypt, because they are not "religious enough" as governments... The victims of these crazy bastards is overwhelming Muslims -- so they are not particularly liked...
I hope the person that started this thread will read your post, but he will probably never get it .
I can't resist but to reply because there is just so much WRONG information about Islam in this thread...
1-(((Those scholars do not disagree with them))). Absolutely wrong, I don't need to stress this more.
I dunno who are the "scholar" you are reding...
2-(((All Muslims think about religion on a day to day basis))) ALso wrong. They SHOULD think about religion on a day basis, but as Adsense strategies said, people here vary and most of them think about the same things any one might think about.
3-(((Study Islam for a decade or so, and live among them for some long years, then tell me about Muslims.)))
Okay, that's your problem, American/westerens who say that they have "studied" Islam and understood it! Then you come and write these stuff about all the words you read/learn like "wahabis", in fact most what you have said, sir is wrong and not even funny!
I'm a Muslim and I lived in Muslim countries..and I can tell you that we hate Bin Laden more than you do.
Wahabis is just a word that some westerner orientalists invented, there is no group who calls themselves "wahabis", but these orientalists seemed to intentionally distort the image of Muslims and of "Mohamed Ibn Abdul Wahab" and claimed that these terrorists depend on his opnions in what they are doing. Which is totally wrong, the man never said that and he was preaching a very different and peacefull way of life.
(((And Bin Laden and them are Wahhabis, the closest you can get to them in strictist islam in a while is, Ibn Hazm)))
OOOH! This is propably the most incorrect sentence I read in this thread! Ibn Hazm is different from Muhamed Ibn Abdul Wahab..AND THEY ARE ALL against this person "Osama Bin laden"
I will tell you guys what is the problem when you try to "study" Islam...
1-You read in non Muslim books/sources OR some books written by really twisted Muslims who call themselves "scholars"
2-Quran and Hadith transations (specially the online ones) lack alot, and I mean alot of truth...some of them are "literal translations" which actually sometimes give a whole different meaning..what I mean is, there is a difference between literal translation and "explaining" what the words really mean. It is like using a dictionary to read Shakespear while you never read English before!
(Actually, number 2 is not your fault, i admit it)
3-Your attitude...the sources you read and the results that YOU want to come up with. If you just study Islam indiffferently/neutrally you will just reach some simple conclusions that it is a religion of love, peace and submission to god, just like christianity in their basics...
But when I see you saying so much wrong information and publishing hubs called "Islam & Socailism Together. A Way To Destroy America?" and "Womens' Equality In Islam: It Does Not Exist!
", when I see such hubs I see two things:
2)A very distorted understanding of Islam....If our religion if this bad as you might think, why the hell do you think we really believe in it and are so devouted? If Islam is against women why do you think these women stay in Islam or even the new ones who convert to Islam?
I really hate to discuss religion in such a context and on an online forum..but there is so much misunderstanding, if I dealt with the bible in the same way you dealt with Quran and Hadith, I can write thousands of hubs against christianity...but cutting sentences from the Quran won't give you the full understanding you want, specially when you start your "study" with a hateful attitude towards the religion...
I don't wanna talk about Islam and how beautiful it is, etc, I don't wanna discuss religion, even...but please stop pretending that you people understand Islam and stop saying wrong things...
Arabic in itself is not even that easy to understand...If you wanna say the word "sword" for example in Arabic....you may find 100 words that you can choose from!! All have the same meaning with little diferences and uses.
(of course,I chose sword as an example because my religion is teaching me to use it to kill people, I'm sure you will find it in your "Quranic studies")
So sad! This thread was about Obama, right?
This is a very good example you have here of Tiquiyya, "Deception".
I understand the context and history surrounding all the Ayat, so get a life.
any problem you have with the scholars I have named in my hubs, is an individual problem of your own.
All the scholars I have named in my hubs, -go read em'-, from, Ibn Hazm, to Al'Bukhari and Moslem all agree with the Idiology of the radicals.
And thats a fact that is inescapable while you read the afore-mentioned Scholars.
I do not have to translate any intent, as it is well and clearly imparted in their own works. Read em.
All anyone has to do, is look to them and read. Which is what any American should do before simply believing someone,.... anyone. Just gop read em.
It is simple. You don't believe me, go read.
I am tired of the western minds don't understand Islam BS. We understand perfectly well.
Al' Mawardi, Al Maliki, Al, Muhaqqiq, Abu Yusus Ya'qub, or how about Yusuf Al'Qarwardi, or Al'Shafi'i whose work is the basis for all lines of legal theorism within the islamic sects.
Or how about, Ibn Hudayl, Ibn Hazm 994-1064, or how about Al'Tibari, Ibn Tamiyya,...
I can keep listing them man. They all agree with Islam as practiced by the RADICALS.
Simple as reading their works and opening your eyes.
You can spout all that Islam is peace, BS, all you want.
True Islam is Jihad. All the peaceful stuff is in regards to the Ummah, and the practices within the Ummah. All the conciliatory verses to non beleivers and infidels, p[olytheists-(which is what Islam considers the Christians)-, they were all Abbrogated by Mohhammud.
You can tell me I dont know all you want. But your Scholars do know! And they say,... your wrong!!
now go read some of the Jurists and scholars I have listed and find where they dont agree.
And Ibn Hazm's idiology is very close to Wahhabiism.
Go Read him, you'd know.
Finally I will say I agree with, Walid Shoebat, the ex PLO terrorist and now apostate from Islam when he says. "You may indeed find a moderate Muslim. But there is no such thing as moderate Islam!".
And I agree fully!
Oh and anything that doesn't agree with Islam and their view is hate, I have heard it before. just like a liberal Muslims think they can shut you up by calling you a hate filled racist.
Whatever. Islam is "Hate Speech" and should be banned, outlawed as such! It is that simple.
And your such an Arabic know it all.
Explain to me why the word "Abeed", is the only word in Arabic for Black. Of course it is also Arabic for, trash. but that doesn't mean anything.
And there is no comparison as far as Islam to Christianity. Your prophet's confabulations don't even contain the proper factual and historical elements. Because mohhammud didn't have a clue! Another thing any Christian who reads the Qu'ran would know.
Mohhammuds understanding of Christianity was wrong and warped.
That's is incorrect and you have been saying contradictory information.. first you say that you don't hate us, but you just have a different opinion..
what do you call this?
I call it fear, hate, and Islamophobia
again, this "wahabism"..you invented this word
Abeed means slaves. Black is "aswad"...get a dictionary.It is a fact that most slaves were black people. Islam refused and abolished slavery from the Arabic culture gradually.
I don't have to be deceptive or sound nice to describe Islam, there is nothing to be ashamed of, but this conversation won't end.
Many of the scholars you have named are the GREATEST scholars in Islam...But ANY MUSLIM KID KNOWS THAT THEY ARE ABSOLTELY AGAINST TERRORISM/Bin Laden or what you call "Radical Islam".
We have been tought according to Quran, hadith, and according to Islamic scholar (like the ones you named) that people like Osama Bin Laden are not "radical Muslims", the only name they can have is "criminals", and so do any one who kills civilians (whatever their religion is). Period.
I'm not falsly aqccusing you of hate. There are so many people and hubbers that disagree with Islam completely. But what you are offering is hate and only hate..
The only correct thing you said was your advice to people to read! Yes, definitely, Everyone who wants, please go read about Islam and discover for yourself what is it all about..and here is a small tips:
If you want to read or get information about Islam, go to a Muslim website and see what they are teaching Muslims and NOT in Mr.MMason's hubs! Because that will be like searching for "delicious meat" or "meat benifits" in www.peta.com !
(sorry if the metaphore is stupidly non creative!)
read:(Did Muhaed live a violent life?)
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate … TheScholar
read: (war ethic in Islam)
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate … TheScholar
read: (about terrorism)
http://hubpages.com/hub/Some-true-belie … m-Religion
(watch all the parts of the video, it says everything).
For information about Islam, (for Muslims and non Muslims) :
All of the people who think like most of these commits are the reason why we are de-evolutionizing into what propaganda molds us to be
know what the funny part is THEY TELL YOU IN YOUR FACE!!!!
your just too ignorent to listen hahaha
like a mocking bird every little form of propaganda shown in the media you just repeat it right back and fall right into
being another steotype! congrats your now a number not a person
dont you feel like an indavidual!!
I'm so proud you can think by yourselves!
too bad those GAT DURN! liberales can't think for themselves
The governments and militaries of all Muslim countries are already trying to squash the extremists, simply because the extremists do not think the present governments of these countries are Muslim enough (they consider them too "liberal"...).
im not talking that kind of war. violent warfare we have far to much of. the weapons used in the type of war im referring to are shame and banishment.religions i think need to deny acknowledgment of those who tarnish their faiths
It's true... of course much depends on who has control over the media outlets of the world -- exactlty via what medium do all the sane Muslims get to condemn the fruitcakes? On episodes of Friends perhaps. Maybe they could do a bit on The Biggest Loser (not trying to sound sarcastic -- just saying that the power to propogate *any* message remains in the hands of the very few: Walt Disney Corp., Ted Turner, and Rupert Murdoch, for example)
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