What are the Great Things President Joe Biden Has Done While President

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  1. GA Anderson profile image83
    GA Andersonposted 3 years ago

    Hot Diggity, I'm getting some popcorn.

    GA

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Did you bring the butter?

    2. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, the forums are dramedy.   The forums can be quite enjoyable.

  2. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    If no one else is going to point out the conceitedness of assuming someone doesn't understand what conceit means, I will.

    And to follow that up with a full on novel of words is also highly entertaining.

    As to vaccinated versus unvaccinated, using CDC data (gee, who would have thought to look there?), during April 4–December 25, 2021, a total of 6,812,040 COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated persons and 2,866,517 cases among fully vaccinated persons were reported among persons aged ≥18 years in 25 U.S. jurisdictions that reported data.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Are you adding something new?

      1. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        For those that like to use actual data for their arguments and not opinion, I might be.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          " As to vaccinated versus unvaccinated "In regard to what, infection rate, death? This was not part of the conversation.  I don't think anyone that is in this back and forth is against vaccines in any respect.

          And in regard to the CDC, I offered a couple of links to the CDC to prove my point that everyone can spread Omicron. Guess you may not have caught that post. And actually, I think I can speak for others on this point --- you rarely offer sources. Now me -- I am the queen of sources --- one only needs to have a look-see at my comments.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Valeant - I guess Sharlee will never understand that by simply saying "my point that everyone can spread Omicron. " leads to a false impression that, regarding the spread of the virus, it doesn't make any difference whether you are vaccinated or not.  The CDC absolutely says the vaccinated are less likely to spread the disease.  It makes a major difference by lumping the vaccinated and unvaccinated into one word "everyone", which implies equivalency.

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              You never said; what is the difference in terms of probability of spreading the disease?  50% vs 49%? 

              All the forms of government information about COVID have deteriorated into spreading fear rather than giving full, accurate information, including the CDC.  So what is the actual difference - something beyond "It is greater!".

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                I don't know what you are reading, Wilderness, but it certainly isn't what I wrote.

                And your blanket condemnation of gov't information is also very telling.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Was reading your post to Valeant where you say "The CDC absolutely says the vaccinated are less likely to spread the disease."

                  The question is how much less?  1%?  50%?  Given that Omicron appears to attack vaccinated and unvaccinated almost equally, what is the difference in the probability of passing it on?  Is the difference in population (3-1 vaccinated) a part of that calculation? From the CDC, not from you; you have already made it clear that you think there is a vast difference but you have given nothing in the form of support for that opinion.

                  The condemnation should be telling.  Anyone that blindly accepts anything they are told by government is an idiot and incompetent to make decisions.  All of it is suspect, very nearly all of it originates from political desires to control and very nearly all of it comes from partisan politics attempting to convince a gullible public that the left, or the right, has all the answers.  Hardly any of it comes with the "whole story", presenting only what that political party wants you to hear.  None of it is intended to provide sufficient information for individuals to make an informed decision.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image83
                    GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Well hell, I was going to butt into this `all are equal' tangent, but you already nailed it.

                    However, (you know I always have one), I wouldn't have bolded "All." All is a dangerous conditioner. My first thoughts were; yeah, but, and I thought about possible exceptions to your "All."

                    Since I'm too lazy on this Sunday morning to ponder `deep' stuff, I'm gonna think about today's NFL playoff games. ;-)

                    My gut still worries about agreeing with "All," but you've been on a roll in this thread, so, `'yeah, what he said . . . '

                    GA

                  2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                    Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    "The CDC absolutely says the vaccinated are less likely to spread the disease."

                    I have not located this statement in regard to Omicron, and that is what was being discussed early on.  I was aware they made that claim about COVID/Delta.   However, in regard to Omicron, The CDC clearly states  --

                    "Spread CDC
                    The Omicron variant likely will spread more easily than the original SARS-CoV-2 virus and how easily Omicron spreads compared to Delta remains unknown. CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms."
                    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … riant.html

                    At one point the CDC did make the claim that if one was vaccinated they had a lesser chance of spreading it. But Omicron is much different in its composition, it can be passed by both Vaccinated and unvaccinated, this was a sticking point I was having with ECO .  The fact is both vac's and unvac's can spread Omicron.  The CDC has not placed how easily Omicron spreads compared to Delta.  The numbers speak loudly that we all can spread Omicron quickly, and easily.

                    Currently, 95% of cases are Omicron.  The other strain at this point is irrelevant.  It will be interesting to see if our vaccination in any respect cut down on us spreading Omicron. In my view, my own experience with everyone at my Christmas Eve dinner becoming ill within hours of each other tells me the Vaccine worked to give 27 people mild symptoms, but it is also clear we spread it with ease. No one went uninfected, all were mildly ill, some had no symptoms.

                    I realize some took offense to me sharing this experience, claiming it downplayed the virus.  This was not my purpose. My purpose was to share my own unique experience with Omicron.  No more no less. I would hate to remove even a bit of fear from those that fear Omicron. LOL

            2. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Again no source ---   You need to post a link to the CDC in regards to  The CDC absolutely says the vaccinated are less likely to spread the disease. This would appear to be misinformation...

              CDC --- Spread
              The Omicron variant likely will spread more easily than the original SARS-CoV-2 virus and how easily Omicron spreads compared to Delta remains unknown. CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.
              Once again CDC source  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … riant.html

              1. Valeant profile image78
                Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Why not fact check my claim yourself.  Simple search of how many cases for vaccinated versus unvaccinated.  It's not rocket science. 

                But here is the link:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/ … mm7104e2_w

                And what that data confirms is that the vaccinated are about a third less likely to be infected by the various forms of virus from April to December.  They have been saying the vaccinated are more protected from the virus for a long time now.  The data prove the claim.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  From your link:

                  "Weekly COVID-19 cases (April 4–December 25, 2021) and associated deaths (April 4–December 4, 2021) by vaccination status, including additional and booster doses starting October 3, were reported from 25 state and local health departments..."

                  I don't know about you, but it is that single bolded word that makes me wonder.  It is my impression, from many COVID cases I know of, that few vaccinated people are reporting it.  The symptoms do not justify even a doctor's care, let alone hospitalization, and they just stay home for a few days.  As many have no symptoms at all the problem is exacerbated even more.

                  If that is even half as true as I expect it is then the statement from the CDC is almost worthless, even in determining how many people got the disease let alone how many passed it on.  It would do you well to read what is presented with a questioning attitude rather than simply assuming that because it is "official" it is gospel truth and that you are not being misled by incorrect, OR by partial information.

                  1. Valeant profile image78
                    Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    So they have no symptoms, but they know they have Covid?  Your logic makes zero sense.  And you do realize that many unvaccinated can also have asymptomatic Covid cases, right?

                    Your impressions often tend to be very wrong, so if that's what you are relying on and applying that universally for some sort of proof, I think I'll stick to the reported data.  And even assuming some of the recent cases fit that impression, it doesn't change the four million difference in cases enough to validate the original point. 

                    So, as always, you are arguing for the sake of arguing without invalidating the conclusion.  In other words, conversing with you continues to be a waste of time.

                2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Val, Your logic is right on and would be factual as stats show.  However, ECO seems to feel if one is vaccinated they are apt to not spread Omicron as readily as the unvaccinated. He claimed I was spreading misinformation.

                  At this point, the CDC says differently.  What would appear is once again due to Omicron being newish, there is still a lot they do not know, but at this point have put out this info ---  CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.

                  I would guess it is time for me to just say, I have done all I can to prevent the spread myself, and will continue to do so. I have been a good citizen and as a nurse when asked by my state to come out of retirement a couple of days a week in the first months of COVID I did.

                  I as many here hoped more would step up and be vaccinated.  I spoke endlessly with acquaintances about the benefits being vaccinated would bring us all.  I did say at this point I have reevaluated the situation
                  currently, and will move on, still trying to keep others and me safe with mitigations.

                  Not sure how so many have a problem with my decision.

                  I in no way wanted to offend you.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    "However, ECO seems to feel if one is vaccinated they are apt to not spread Omicron as readily as the unvaccinated. He claimed I was spreading misinformation." - [I[The issue is your response to my true claim.  You write At this point, the CDC says differently., and that is misinformation.  Even your follow-on doesn't support your claim that the CDC says differently (meaning, they no longer know if the unvaccinated and vaccinated transmit Omicron at the same rate). You quoted "CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms".  That in NO WAY indicates whether the unvaccinated continue to be 2/3rds (using Valeant's data)  more likely to spread the virus or not.  It simply states the obvious and did not comment on whether vaccinated or the unvaccinated more easily spread Omicron.

            3. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I am still waiting for the CDC link to confirm your view ---  The CDC absolutely says the vaccinated are less likely to spread the disease. 

              If you provide this link it could work to clarify and prove your statement factual.

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                I provided it and you imply that the CDC wasn't talking about Omicron.

          2. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Being the queen of links and the queen of sources are two separate things.  Especially if you cannot process the information in those links much like you could not understand those were Covid case totals from April to December between vaccinated and unvaccinated as it clearly states in the paragraph I copied from the CDC website.

            Those totals go to the misinformation being stated here that claims that a vaccine does nothing to prevent the spread.  The totals are very clear proof that those vaccinated are less susceptible to the virus.

            And the claim that the vaccine was untested is also false as the scientists had the vaccine created even before the first case arrived in the United States and had ten months of testing.

            This is the kind of misinformation that is not opinion but either ignorance or outright lying that we see all the time at this site.

  3. Kathleen Cochran profile image73
    Kathleen Cochranposted 3 years ago

    I just had a long-awaited, only with the help of a fertility specialist, grandbaby two weeks ago. And I can tell you this: it was no fun in a hospital full of Covid patients and unvaccinated nurses. If you won't get vaccinated to save your own life, do it for children who have no protection. Even a mild case for you would not be a mild case for a newborn. Can you understand that?

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Congratulations!!!

      And your message is on point.

  4. Kathleen Cochran profile image73
    Kathleen Cochranposted 3 years ago

    I actually think most religions say something about caring about someone other than yourself.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I suspect Evangelicals may not be one of those.  It is my observations that the liberal wing of most religions give freely.  But, for conservative religions, it often comes with strings.

  5. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
    Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

    Also chiming in on the semiconductor chip issue: 

    Before the coronavirus pandemic even arrived in 2020,  Then President Donald Trump’s trade policies cut into the number of semiconductors available in the United States. In 2018, as part of his trade war with China, Mr. Trump imposed 25% tariffs on $34 billion worth of Chinese imports, including semiconductors.  Those tariffs are still in effect, and chip imports from China have fallen by half as the price has gone up.

    China now accounts for only about 5% of imported semiconductors, according to research firm Panjiva. But imports from other countries have not gone up to offset the lost supply from China.

    Another Trump policy may have caused even more damage. In 2019, the Trump administration banned the sale of American-made components, including semiconductors, to the Chinese telecom giant Huawei, in an effort to disenfranchise the maker of networking gear and smartphones. That had several undesirable consequences. For one, it created a disincentive to make chips in the United States because producers couldn’t sell them to one of the world’s largest customers. Huawei begin to get chips from suppliers in Japan and South Korea that weren’t subject to the ban. China also boosted its own production of chips, and it began hoarding them, in case the U.S. action intensified. The U.S. semiconductor industry says Mr. Trump's actions cost U.S. firms millions in sales.

    “The Trump administration had a clumsy approach to a complex supply chain,” trade economist Chad Bown of the Petersen Institute for International Economics wrote recently in Foreign Affairs. “The fiasco contributed to the current shortages, hurting American businesses and workers. Now, the Biden administration must pick up the pieces."

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-trum … 26179.html

  6. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    The US economic recovery from the depths of the Covid pandemic continued strong last year.  The best in almost 40 YEARS!

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/economy/ … index.html

  7. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    Despite the brief deceleration in third-quarter GDP, economic growth throughout 2021 had been robust as vaccinations picked up across the country and stay-in-place behaviors began to abate. For the full-year 2021, GDP grew at a 5.7% rate, marking the fastest since 1984. And this marked a sharp reversal from the contraction seen in the economy in 2020, when GDP shrank by 3.4%.

    U.S. gdp growth rate for 2020 was -3.49%, a 5.65% decline from 2019.
    U.S. gdp growth rate for 2019 was 2.16%, a 0.84% decline from 2018.
    U.S. gdp growth rate for 2018 was 3.00%, a 0.66% increase from 2017.
    U.S. gdp growth rate for 2017 was 2.33%, a 0.62% increase from 2016.

  8. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    ICYMI: President Biden directs $100 million from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to lower energy bills for working families

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Why not?  Most of the bill wasn't about rebuilding crumbling infrastructure anyway - why not use it as just another wealth redistribution wealth program as well?

      1. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Still lying about what's in the bill I see.  This is what we see here at this site.  We provide all you far-right posters with the information.  You stop talking about your falsehoods for a month, and then go right back to trying to repeat them like we didn't prove you wrong the first time.  Is it stubbornness or just a desire to spread misinformation that motivates you?

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Just depends on what one views as infrastructure.

          CNN --- "Does only 7% of Biden's infrastructure plan go toward US infrastructure?
          CLAIM
          A day after Biden's announcement, an email from the Republican National Committee claimed "Joe Biden's 'infrastructure' plan is not really about infrastructure, it is another multi-trillion dollar far left wish list," echoing similar complaints made about the Covid-19 relief package, the American Rescue Plan.

          According to the GOP, "Only 7% of the bill's spending is for what Americans traditionally think of as infrastructure."

          CONCLUSION
          The GOP claim that just 7% of the bill's spending applies to infrastructure is misleading. That being said, the debate over what technically counts as infrastructure is a real one, and much of the bill's spending falls outside even the broadest of definitions."

          "Biden's plan includes $621 billion for transportation, $400 billion for homecare service, $300 billion for manufacturing and $180 billion for research and development.

          Under their "traditional" definition of infrastructure, the GOP email limits what counts as infrastructure spending to include the $115 billion the plan allocates for modernizing highways, roads and main streets, $25 billion to airports and $17 billion for inland waterways, ports and ferries.

          However, Biden's plan also calls for $85 billion to modernize public transit, $80 billion for Amtrak, $50 billion to safeguard critical infrastructure and $20 billion to improve road safety. The GOP email does not provide an explanation for why those investments are not considered part of infrastructure.

          If we include the aforementioned $235 billion additional funding for transportation infrastructure, plus the $126 billion for building housing units, the $112 billion to build public schools and improve community college facilities, the $111 billion for water infrastructure, the $100 billion for digital infrastructure and the $100 billion for power infrastructure, infrastructure accounts for about 30% of the $2.65 trillion plan as announced by the White House.

          The Republicans could have fairly argued that a majority of the funds aren't going directly to infrastructure projects but the 7% number relies on a the GOP's own narrow definition of infrastructure.
          https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/poli … 9a9e857582

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            '...infrastructure accounts for about 30% of the $2.65 trillion plan as announced by the White House.'

            This just shows that you're on the same uneducated plane of existence as the bill that was passed, the one were are talking about, was not $2.65 trillion.  Please get current on what is in the actual bill so you can reasonably join in the discussion.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Even If you use the 1900 definition of infrastructure, the Republicans, as usual, are wrong.  But, unlike the backward looking Conservatives, the rest of us realize the world moves on and definitions must change with it.

        2. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          "Is it stubbornness or just a desire to spread misinformation that motivates you?"

          Neither - it is a willingness to look at truth and accept it for what it is whether good or bad.  Unfortunately you are not a part of that group.

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Right, because when I listed everything in the bill for you, you stopped replying.  Yeah, if you call that a look at the truth, I would call it dodging the truth.

            But I'll entertain you on this one.  Go ahead and post what was passed.  You made the claim, back it up with facts.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            "it is a willingness to look at truth and accept it for what it is whether good or bad.  " - Then I recommend you try it sometime like the rest of us do.  It might be illuminating

    2. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And those family's will need it, with the rising prices. The poor will suffer the worst.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        That is why President Biden is doing it.  I can't believe you are praising him.

  9. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    Obama had his moment with Osama bin Laden

    Trump had his moment with Bagdadi (one of his very few good accomplishments)

    Now Biden has his moment with Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/politics … index.html

  10. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    WOW!!!  President Biden oversees a whopping 467,000 jobs ADDED to the economy!!!

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/economy/ … index.html

    So many people rejoined the job market that it forced the unemployment rate up to 4%.

  11. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    The economy in 12 charts:

    GOOD Indicators:

    * US Payroll keeps growing at a stead pace
    * Unemployment rate still near all time lows
    * GDP keeps growing setting records each month
    * Debt-to-GDP ratio keeps falling from Trump's high
    * 30-year mortgage rate increased again in February, a leading indicator of a strengthening economy
    * Housing starts increased as of Dec 1, for the 2nd month in a row
    *The S&P/Case-Shiller US national home price index, a measure of America's wealth, sets yet another new record

    NEUTRAL Indicators:
    * 10-year Treasury rate remains relatively unchanged
    * Inventory-to-sales ratio remains relatively unchanged
    * S&P 500 falls from over inflated highs.


    BAD Indicators:
    * Consumer spending declined a little in November and December
    * CPI, as of Dec 1, 2021, is still increasing

    Since there are two BAD indicators, Trump Republicans and those with BDS will declare a failed economy.  The rest of us will take note that 8 indicators were GOOD and 2 were neutral telling us the economy is STRONG.

    https://www.cnn.com/business/economic-g … rketribbon

    1. peoplepower73 profile image85
      peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Scott: This is from the NY Times 2/2/2022

      Why are so many part-time workers struggling to find full-time work during a labor shortage?

      Wait it out
      Brenda Garcia, who works at a Chipotle in Queens, has a problem that may sound surprising in today’s tight labor market. She is a part-time employee who wants more work, but the restaurant keeps assigning her less than 20 hours a week.

      “It’s not enough for me,” Garcia told my colleague Noam Scheiber. “They’re not giving me a stable job.”

      Garcia is one of millions of Americans who want an established, full-time work schedule and are struggling to find it, as Noam explains in a Times article. As a result, these part-timers struggle with not only low pay but also uncertain shifts that can change at the last minute, disrupting the rest of their lives. The workers can obviously quit, but they often find that the other jobs available to them have similar problems.

      How could this be when the country is in the midst of a labor shortage in which employers are struggling to fill jobs? Because executives at many companies have decided that part-time work is too important to abandon just because the labor market is temporarily tight.

      Part-time work allows companies to hold down labor costs in two crucial ways. First, companies can reduce their benefit costs because part-time workers often do not receive health care and retirement benefits. Second, companies can change staffing levels quickly, to meet demand on a given day or week, rather than having workers sit idle during slower periods.

      “It’s very deeply embedded in employers’ business models,” Noam — who covers workers and the workplace from Chicago — told me. “They’re incredibly reluctant to give it up, even if it means enduring labor shortages and elevated turnover in the short and intermediate term. Basically, they think it makes more economic sense to wait out the current shortages than to fundamentally change their labor model.”

      That may well be a rational decision for individual businesses. The shift toward flexible, part-time and often outsourced work is a major reason that corporate profits have risen in recent decades. After-tax corporate profits have accounted for more than 7 percent of national income in recent years, up from an average of 5.6 percent from the 1950s through the 1970s, according to the Commerce Department.

      If employers shift away from part-time work during a tight labor market like today’s, they worry they will be stuck with higher labor costs for years. “Employers will typically try everything else first — raising wages, offering bonuses and other financial incentives, giving part-timers more hours temporarily,” Noam explains. “All these measures are reversible, and presumably will be reversed once the labor shortages subside.”


      Striking workers at King Soopers in Glendale, Colo.Michael Ciaglo/Getty Images

      The power dynamic
      Companies have been able to insist on so much part-time work largely because they have more negotiating power over workers than in the past. The corporate sector is more consolidated than it was decades ago, leaving the average employer with more resources and the average worker with fewer alternatives in any given industry.

      Workers, for their part, are much less likely to belong to a union than in the past. And union members make more money than similar nonunion workers, as an extensive study of the U.S. economy by economists at Princeton and Columbia has found. Unions effectively shift some of a company’s revenue from profits to wages. Shrinking unions, in turn, have contributed to growing economic inequality.

      One way that unions tend to lift wages is by putting pressure on companies to hire people full time — and threatening to strike if the companies refuse.

      Last month, unionized workers at King Soopers, a supermarket chain mostly in the Denver area and owned by Kroger, went on strike. They made the growth of part-time work a central issue. In the strike’s settlement, Kroger agreed to contract language that will likely lead it to add 1,000 or more full-time jobs over the next three years. A majority of jobs at King Soopers are still part-time, but the settlement has changed the balance.

      “Without a labor union that could organize a strike and provide strike pay, it’s hard to see how most workers could pressure their employers to make a similar change,” Noam said.

      In the short term, a tight labor market will lift wages for many American workers. If it were to persist for years — which is unlikely — it might alter the balance of power between workers and employers. But the more plausible way that balance could change is through government policy.

      The House has passed a bill called the PRO Act that would make it easier for workers to form unions, and President Biden supports it. Among other things, the bill would bar companies from requiring employees to attend anti-union meetings and would impose financial penalties on companies that fire workers for trying to organize a union.

      The bill seems stalled in the Senate, where Republicans oppose it. Democrats may try to pass some of the bill’s provisions along party lines in coming months.

      The bottom line
      The increasing inequality of the U.S. economy over the past half-century is unlikely to end because of a temporarily tight labor market. “Labor shortages may be a necessary condition for changing the nature of these jobs,” Noam says, “but they’re generally not a sufficient condition.”

  12. Sharlee01 profile image85
    Sharlee01posted 3 years ago

    Sharlee: " I think in your zeal to make Biden look like a hypocrite, you didn't stop to realize that getting the courts to stop the leases was his plan in the first place."

    I could have believed that if I did not see him add many more oil leases to the auction in Nov 2021.

    I see it as a win for the environmentalist that took the case to court. They stopped not only Trump's oil leases he left, but all the once Biden added. But guess you can overlook that. I look at it as a cheap grift that went bad, as do most of Biden's grifts. He always ends up getting caught.

    "he may have gone along with the leases knowing they would not be approved? All well and good --- he added his own ton of oil leases to the auction.

    Oh well, I think in the end he once again will be blamed for the fact oil prices are going up, and I feel will hit a record high. We have lost money from sales of natural gas, and that depletes the US coffers.  He is like a wrecking ball.

    Sorry, we just don't see eye to eye on this one. I feel Biden is not only a hypocrite but a teller of 'tall tales". Things just never go his way, funny you are not seeing that, he has really bad luck, karma, whatever you want to call it.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "I could have believed that if I did not see him add many more oil leases to the auction in Nov 2021." - So, once again you are asking President Biden to break the law.  Very Trump Republican of you.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Are you actually saying, Biden, did not issue many oil permits on his own? He has issued and outpaced Trump. Plus he had the ability to cancel Trump's auctions if he saw fit. He did not and added more. What are you not understanding?  https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireSto … e-78803956

        "BILLINGS, Mont. -- Approvals for companies to drill for oil and gas on U.S. public lands are on pace this year to reach their highest level since George W. Bush was president, underscoring President Joe Biden’s reluctance to more forcefully curb petroleum production in the face of industry and Republican resistance.

        The Interior Department approved about 2,500 permits to drill on public and tribal lands in the first six months of the year, according to an Associated Press analysis of government data. That includes more than 2,100 drilling approvals since Biden took office January 20.

        New Mexico and Wyoming had the largest number of approvals. Montana, Colorado and Utah had hundreds each.

        Biden campaigned last year on pledges to end new drilling on federal lands to rein in climate-changing emissions. His pick to oversee those lands, Interior Secretary Deb Haaland, adamantly opposed drilling on federal lands while in Congress and co-sponsored the liberal Green New Deal.

        But the steps taken by the administration to date on fossil fuels are more modest, including a temporary suspension on new oil and gas leases on federal lands that a judge blocked last month, blocked petroleum sales in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) and cancellation of the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada.

        Because vast fossil fuel reserves already are under lease, those actions did nothing to slow drilling on public lands and waters that account for about a quarter of U.S. oil production.

        Further complicating Biden’s climate agenda is a recent rise in gasoline prices to $3 a gallon ($0.79 a liter) or more in many parts of the country. Any attempt to limit petroleum production could push gasoline prices even higher and risk souring economic recovery from the pandemic.

        “He’s walking the tightrope,” said energy industry analyst Parker Fawcett with S&P Global Platts, noting that Keystone and ANWR came without huge political costs because they were aimed at future projects.

        “Those easy wins don't necessarily have huge impacts on the market today,” Fawcett said. “He is definitely backing off taking drastic action that would rock the market. ... What you’re going to see is U.S. oil production is going to continue to rebound.”

        Haaland has sought to tamp down Republican concern over potential constraints on the industry. She said during a House Natural Resources Committee hearing last month that there was no "plan right now for a permanent ban.”

        “Gas and oil production will continue well into the future and we believe that is the reality of our economy and the world we're living in,” Haaland told Colorado Republican Rep. Doug Lamborn.

        Interior officials declined further comment on permits issued under Biden.

        Under former President Donald Trump, a staunch industry supporter, the Interior Department reduced the time it takes to review drilling applications from a year or more in some cases, to just a few months.

        Companies rushed to lock in drilling rights before the new administration. And in December, Trump’s last full month in office, agency officials approved more than 800 permits — far more than any prior month during his presidency.

        The pace dropped when Biden first took office, under a temporary order that elevated permit reviews to senior administration officials. Approvals have since rebounded to a level that exceeds monthly numbers seen through most of Trump’s presidency.

        The data obtained by AP from a government database is subject to change because of delays in transmitting data from Interior field offices to headquarters.

        If the recent trends continue, the Interior Department could issue close to 6,000 permits by the end of the year. The last time so many were issued was fiscal year 2008, amid an oil boom driven by crude prices that reached an all-time high of $140 per barrel that June.

        Decisions on about 4,700 drilling applications remained pending as of June 1, which means approvals are likely to continue at a heavy pace as officials work through a backlog left over from the Trump administration, said Fawcett, the industry analyst.

        Environmentalists who share the administration’s goals on climate have expressed growing frustration as prospects for a ban on drilling fade. They contend the administration could take executive action that would stop further permits but has caved to Republican pressure.

        “Every indication is they have no plans of actually fulfilling their campaign promise,” said Mitch Jones, policy director for the environmental group Food & Water Watch. “The result of that will be continued and increasing development of fossil fuels on public lands, which means more climate change.”

        Economists and other experts have been skeptical about how much impact a permit ban would have. Companies simply could shift onto private and state lands and keep drilling, said University of Chicago deputy dean Ryan Kellogg.

        The administration's defenders say it's being pragmatic in the face of a Senate split 50-50 between Democrats and Republicans and questions over whether the government could legally stop drilling on leases already sold to companies.

        That's meant forgoing a drilling ban in hopes of getting bipartisan support for a huge infrastructure package that includes clean energy incentives and other measures to address global warming.

        “It's the long game. ... You've got to appease some of those oil and gas state senators,” said Jim Lyons, who was deputy assistant Interior secretary under Barack Obama and is now an environmental consultant. “It means jobs back home for thousands of workers. You can't just pull the plug overnight.”

        In fact, Biden was breaking a Federal Law.  ---  A federal judge on Thursday invalidated the largest offshore oil and gas lease sale in the nation's history, ruling that the Biden administration violated federal law by relying on a seriously flawed analysis of the climate change impact of drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.Jan 28, 2022

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          "Are you actually saying, Biden, did not issue many oil permits on his own?" - YES, I am saying that.  BUT FOR your side suing President Biden to make those sales, he wouldn't have done it as his Executive Order prohibiting it PROVES.  But, we all know FACTS do not matter to your side, only denigrating Biden for no reason at all.

  13. MG Singh profile image62
    MG Singhposted 3 years ago

    I have a one-line answer to the question raised in this forum and that is Joe Biden is the Bahadur Shah of the United States and he's going to preside over the destruction of his nation. It could start in Ukraine. In a conventional war, the West will be defeated and in a nuclear war, they will be destroyed leaving China as the sole power. Thank you Biden, say the Chinese.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image71
      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      This Administration, along with the pentagon leadership that is either delusional or in cognitive decline with our president, directing this course of action, is dooming our nation, its citizens, to a woeful existence if they start a war with Russia.

      It has clearly been their goal to isolate Russia and then overthrow Putin since he took control, this started long ago focusing on it's allies... Iraq, Syria, Libya, have all felt the wrath of America for being former allies to the USSR... Iran was a focus as well but China long ago told DC that to invade Iran would be considered a declaration of war against China.

      The majority of oil and natural gas that Iran produces goes to China and they have long secured that supply.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 … n-germany/

      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/01 … raine-news

      This is a very simple situation to understand.

      Consider Putin's statement regarding America's desire for war with Russia:

      “Ukraine is simply a tool to achieve this goal. They could draw us into some kind of armed conflict and force their allies in Europe to impose the very tough sanctions that are being talked about in the United States today,” he noted. “Or they could draw Ukraine into NATO, set up strike weapons systems there and encourage some people to resolve the issue of Donbass or Crimea by force, and still draw us into an armed conflict.”

      Putin continued, “Let us imagine that Ukraine is a NATO member and is stuffed with weapons and there are state-of-the-art missile systems just like in Poland and Romania. Who will stop it from unleashing operations in Crimea, let alone Donbass? Let us imagine that Ukraine is a NATO member and ventures such a combat operation. Do we have to fight with the NATO bloc? Has anyone thought anything about it? It seems not.”

      The most likely scenario would involve Ukraine being rapidly brought under the ‘umbrella’ of NATO protection, with ‘battlegroups’ like those deployed into eastern Europe being formed on Ukrainian soil as a ‘trip-wire’ force, and modern air defenses combined with forward-deployed NATO aircraft put in place to secure Ukrainian airspace.

      Once this umbrella has been established, Ukraine would feel emboldened to begin a hybrid conflict against what it terms the Russian occupation of Crimea, employing unconventional warfare capability it has acquired since 2015 at the hands of the CIA to initiate an insurgency designed specifically to “kill Russians.”

      The idea that Russia would sit idly by while a guerilla war in Crimea was being implemented from Ukraine is ludicrous; if confronted with such a scenario, Russia would more than likely use its own unconventional capabilities in retaliation. Ukraine, of course, would cry foul, and NATO would be confronted with its mandatory obligation for collective defense under Article 5. In short, NATO would be at war with Russia.

      As I have said before, our military leadership is delusional, dealing with serious cognitive decline (as Biden does) if they think America can take on a Russian military in a conventional war that is being backed by China, even if only with economic and equipment support... try reviewing what happened to us in Korea when China stepped in, and now consider that China has military equipment equal to anything we have.

      America’s decade of disaster in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria has resulted in a military no longer capable of defeating a peer-level opponent on the battlefield.

      This reality was highlighted in a study conducted by the US Army’s 173rd Airborne Brigade, the central American component of NATO’s Rapid Deployment Force, in 2017. The study found that US military forces in Europe were underequipped, undermanned, and inadequately organized to confront military aggression from Russia.

      The lack of viable air defense and electronic warfare capability, when combined with an over-reliance on satellite communications and GPS navigation systems, would result in the piecemeal destruction of the US Army in rapid order should they face off against a Russian military that was organized, trained, and equipped to specifically defeat a US/NATO threat.

      A Russia that would have the endless supply/support of China.

      Any war with Russia would find American forces slaughtered in large numbers. Back in the 1980s, we routinely trained to accept losses of 30-40 percent and continue the fight, because that was the reality of modern combat against a Soviet threat. Back then, we were able to effectively match the Soviets in terms of force size, structure, and capability... in short, we could give as good, or better, than we got.

      That wouldn’t be the case in any European war against Russia today. The US will lose most of its forces before they are able to close with any Russian adversary, due to deep artillery fires. Even when they close with the enemy, the advantage the US enjoyed against Iraqi and Taliban insurgents and ISIS terrorists is a thing of the past. Our tactics are no longer up to par when there is close combat, it will be extraordinarily violent, and the US will, more times than not, come out on the losing side.

      Our military no longer has the mental fortitude to handle mass amounts of casualties and push on, its leadership today is more worried about LGTBQ rights and women being equally represented throughout, including in our various special forces.  The philosophy of every American life is precious, and that all efforts will be made to evacuate the wounded would not hold up in a years long conflict against an opponent better trained, more determined, and equally well equipped with technology.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfe6d6MzeLM

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Pure anti-American, pro-Russian BS, IMO.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image71
          Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          For those willing to consider it, I present a fair evaluation of the current military reality regarding Russia, the Ukraine, China.

          And for those who live in the alternate reality presented by Biden, CNN, etc. your comment is apt and I would expect little else.

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        You called this a "fair" evaluation later on in this thread. So I came back to point out exactly where you were not "fair" or even correct in your evaluation.

        1. "This Administration, along with the pentagon leadership that is either delusional or in cognitive decline " - To say something so ridiculous implies your cognition is in question, let alone your "fairness" or correctness

        2. "is dooming our nation, its citizens, to a woeful existence if they start a war with Russia." - That may be the case if PUTIN starts the war but otherwise it is clearly NOT the case since America is NOT STARTING a war (other in your mind)

        3. "It has clearly been their goal to isolate Russia and then overthrow Putin since he took control" - Clearly a misinterpretation of the actual facts.  America DID NOT start pushing back on Putin until he started getting aggressive. Please present the truth.

        4. I am not sure Hussein and Russian were allies, but I do agree we should never invaded that country, only isolate it.  Contrary to your false assumptions, we did not invade Syria nor did we invade Libya.  Libya was not an ally of Russia, in fact Russia thought Gaddafi should step down.  Given Assad and Putin are both murderers, I suppose they are allies as well.

        5. "Iran was a focus as well but China long ago told DC that to invade Iran would be considered a declaration of war against China." - That sounds like something else you made up to fit your pro-dictator narrative

        6. "Consider Putin's statement regarding America's desire for war with Russia:" - You and Traitor Trump apparently believe our enemies more than you believe America.  Why is that?  What is your real agenda here?

        7. "utin continued, “Let us imagine that Ukraine is a NATO member and is stuffed with weapons and there are state-of-the-art missile systems just like in Poland and Romania. Who will stop it from unleashing operations in Crimea, let alone Donbass?" - So by relying on Putin to make your points you are saying Ukraine has no right to gain back the territory Putin stole from them.  Very pro-Russian of you.

        See - nothing "fair" or correct about your comments.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image71
          Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Just because you are a bean counter for the government does not mean you understand one thing about military tactics and geopolitics.

          It was interesting to read MG Singh's recent take on this matter, a individual with a wealth of military experience to pull from, and he had this to say:

          "In a conventional war, the Anglo-Saxon powers will be fighting by proxy of Ukraine. In 10 out of 10 cases they will be defeated. It is a different matter that Russia may not be able to hold onto it and there will be guerrilla warfare etc. but initially, the Russian army will win. The cost will be heavy but I do not think it to be crippling because of the factor of China, which is behind Russia. The West will impose sanctions but it will not have much of an effect. They have tried it earlier and nothing has happened."

          He understands as well as I do, America (and whatever allies it has that would support such a foolish venture) is in a no win situation in Ukraine, and only those fools in DC who long ago started America on this trek to gain control of the Ukraine and encircle Russia cannot see this.

          Any effort to shift more troops and support into the Ukraine any effort to have them become a member of NATO at this time, while Putin is alive, is a CONSCIOUS effort to goad Russia into a war... America is the aggressor in this situation, that is the reality. 

          If the situation were reversed and Russia helped install new leadership in Mexico and was trying to get Mexico to join in an alliance and were putting troops in Mexico, how would America react?

          If America does not stand down and allow the Ukraine to stay in the realm of Russia's influence/dominance one other thing MG Singh said will come to fruition:

          "Russia and America will be eclipsed as global powers and the only power that will be left behind will be China.

          Something I am sure would please Xi Jinping to no end.

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Any effort to shift more troops and support into the Ukraine any effort to have them become a member of NATO at this time, while Putin is alive, is a CONSCIOUS effort to goad Russia into a war... America is the aggressor in this situation, that is the reality. 

            If the situation were reversed and Russia helped install new leadership in Mexico and was trying to get Mexico to join in an alliance and were putting troops in Mexico, how would America react?
            ------

            I agree with that assessment. That how I am seeing things right now.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              So, the fact that the Ukrainians wanted to do the same thing regarding their King George puppet that our founders did (where we welcomed and required the help of France) means nothing to either of you? It doesn't play into your calculations? It certainly does mine.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Even if that were true, and I by no means am saying that is the case, no.

                The only thing that matters is the economic and tactical realities and what the repercussions would be.

                All that BS about bringing them their freedom is just that... total and complete BS used as an excuse to start a war.

                It was BS when used for our actions against Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, etc.

                Anything we do in the Ukraine is a power play, nothing more.  It is an idiotic one that will not benefit America.  People living in the past, delusional and irrational people are pushing for this effort.

                If it is about "liberating" people... lets start with North Korea or Iran, they have it far worse than Ukrainians, right?

                If this is about helping people and doing the right thing, shouldn't we be freeing Outer Mongolia and bringing the fight to China?

                How about Saudi Arabia, they all but enslave their women, why not topple that regime and set up a democracy there?

                Lets stop with the BS... we are focused on Ukraine because OUR leadership the AMERICAN war machine is looking to start a war with Russia. Period.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Russian propagandists couldn't do a better job then you are.  Your reading of the world situation comes straight out of Trump's and Putin's play book.

              2. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                I don't see how we are really prepared to confront Putin in his backyard?We may disagree on the point that there has to be limits on the reach of American military power.

                While, I think Putin is smart enough not to let this get beyond his ability to handle matters, I might be timid in accepting the fact that pax-Americana is not the reality in the world today.

                How far are you prepared to take this crisis, Esoteric? Putin is protecting his perimeter, do we really want another war over it?

                Real-politik recognizes that we cannot rescue every damsel in distress. If we insist on resistance, this needs to be a United Nations-NATO action with all allies on board at a minimum.

                America had its "Monroe Doctrine" what does Putin have?

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  The thing is, Putin has nothing to fear from Europe or America - we pose zero military threat to him.  He knows that.  He knows that neither Europe nor America has made ANY overt or covert move to acquire Russian territory - none what so ever. 

                  In my view, to say that we have is simple Neville Chamberlain-type appeasement of an murderous aggressor.

                  The ONLY aggressor in this scenario is Putin, who like Trump, doesn't often think very deep before taking action.  He, again like Trump, is an opportunist and transactional type of dictator.  Other than wanting their land back, the Ukraine poses no threat to Russia yet Russia as put over 150,000 troops to the North, East, and South of Ukraine.  We have put nothing on the border of Russia have we?

                  I don't want to be England prior to WW II and let Putin march over first Ukraine, then Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania before setting his sights again on Poland, Rumania, and Bulgaria.  And don't believe he doesn't have them on his planning board.  Putin has not hidden the fact that he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet Union.

                  Yet people like Ken clearly want to "appease" Putin for some reason.  Hopefully, you do not want to either.

                  "Real-politik recognizes that we cannot rescue every damsel in distress." - To go back to my analogy, isn't that what Chamberlain said about Austria and Checkoslavakia before Hitler started WW II?

                  "Putin is protecting his perimeter, " - I have to ask - from whom? Doesn't Ukraine have the right to associate with whatever nation its deems is in its own national interest? Or is Putin supposed to have a veto over that?  Isn't it more likely he is using that excuse as a pretext to reacquire land lost in the Cold War?

                  1. Credence2 profile image81
                    Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Let me ask, you, Esoteric, as practically, the West has posed no military threat on Putin's designs for the former Warsaw Pact nations, what do we do?

                    Putin does not deserve to be brought down to the level of Trump as Trump is far less sophisticated. And, he was far too dumb to think on any geostretegic level.

                    I have heard of Putin's desire to reassembly the old Soviet Union, he has to wage war on several countries to realize his dream. Is he willing to take the risk of counting on continued indifference from the West?

                    I don't want to appease, Putin. But, I am looking for effective counters to Putin and his aggressive actions, what are they?

                    Well, the difference from 1938 to today is the existence of mutually assured destruction. Total war today means total global annihilation. And in the face of that, we all need to step lightly and carefully consider our moves.

                    If the League of Nations was more than a paper tiger and acted with a United intent to confront Hitler in his violation of Versailles, he could have been halted while he was relatively weak.

                    Is the Western Alliance, NATO and the blue helmets prepared to send troops in? With a global resolve, at least from the West, Putin might stand down. But every partner need to be on the same page.

                    I don't want a unilateral military confrontation with Putin that I doubt that we could win, just based on sheer logistics.

                    While, I may lie a bit to your Left in regards to foreign policy and American geostrategy, I am a student of history and appreciate your examples of Chamberlain and appeasement. But where do we throw down the gauntlet this time withou risking letting the dredging genie back out of the bottle?

                  2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                    Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    What world are YOU living in?

                    Lets put some reality and facts into this, shall we?

                    When Putin assumed the Presidency in 2000, he took pains to court Tony Blair and George W. Bush, he believed he could reason with them as a partner nation, an equal.

                    He was the first leader to call President Bush and lend him his support after the attacks of Sept. 11, allowing America to build an airbase in Kyrgyzstan so that they could fly bombing missions in Afghanistan.

                    In return for that good faith effort, Putin was rewarded by America pulling out of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, despite Russian protests.

                    Then in 2003, President Bush circumvented United Nations authorization and invaded Iraq, whom Russia maintained historic and economic ties with.

                    Then from 2003-2005 a wave of protests (sparked by foreign interference efforts aka CIA) spread across Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan, leading to pro-Western governments.

                    Russia has had to watch as the NATO alliance, moved its forces right up to Russia's western border, one nation at a time, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, etc. Until by 2016 Russia had the combined military forces of the EU and America literally sitting on its doorstep, more tanks, artillery, rockets and jets were along its border just weeks prior to President Trump taking office than had been amassed for Desert Shield.

                    It is possible, that had Clinton won that election and not Trump, those forces may well have been used to secure Ukraine.  Trump as we know, was not the DC insider that Clinton was, and he diverted many efforts meant to continue after Obama, from TPP to the Paris Accord to many things not known.

                    Three countries in the Middle East had strong ties to Russia… Iraq, Libya, and Syria. These three nations were among the countries who allied with the Soviets during the Cold War.

                    The regimes in these countries were supported and supplied by the Soviets, this 'responsibility' was later inherited by Russia and continued after the end of the Cold War in the 1990s.

                    Just what occurred to these three nations, due almost entirely to America's insistence and interference (again see foreign interference and CIA activity)?

                    All three are war torn, demolished nations.

                    Throughout history, the Russians have been invaded over, and over, and over again. The latest, was when the Nazi Regime, which had signed a non-aggression treaty with Russia, invaded and slaughtered more than 25 million Russians just years after that treaty was signed.

                    But Russia has nothing to worry about, America is a peaceful nation, it would do nothing to instigate a war, because, you know, everything America has done to Russia and its allies in the last 30 years is so good natured and helpful.

                    The demonization of Russia and Putin is being used to justify war and more conflict. Most Americans do not want another war. Why are we headed down that slippery slope?

                    It's not because of what Russia has done, Russia has not pushed its troops right up to our borders and declared that Mexico wants to be free from America's influence... it is because America is putting troops on Russia's borders and poking the Bear, provoking it.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            "Just because you are a bean counter for the government does not mean you understand one thing about military tactics and geopolitics." - Nope, that is true.  But what does is my 21 years as an infantry and later a combat engineer officer in the Army.  In that role, I attended the Basic and Advanced Infantry courses at Ft. Benning along with a few other advance courses.  And even as that "bean counter" for the Air Force, they say fit to send me to Air War College.  I think I know a ton more about, how did you put it, "military tactics and geopolitics" than you do!

            What is your claim to fame??

            BTW, a couple of the results of my "bean counting" is the management information system still used today by Air Staff to allocate budget resources and, if they ever do base closures again, the modelling they will use is still based on the original model I developed.  Not inconsequential "bean counting" in my opinion.  Nor is the estimate I put together for the Slovakian government of the cost to operate a new air force in their successful bid to join NATO. Oh yes.  How about the "bean counting" I did in support of a Presidential Directive to establish a U.N. operations center.  Yep, just typical, non-geopolitical "bean counting",  lol.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image71
              Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              When looking at this scenario it doesn't take being a mastermind to figure it out.

              It is 500 miles from Moscow to Ukraine.

              You can drive 500 miles in half a day.

              There is no way on Earth that Putin is going to allow NATO (America) to set up shop in the Ukraine.

              There is no way short of destroying Russia, as in bombing it back to the stone age, and worse, that America can win a war in the Ukraine, against Russia.

              With China backing Russia, we have less chance of winning in this scenario than we did back when we declared an armistice with North Korea... way less of a chance... as in none.

              Anyone that thinks engaging in conflict with Russia in the Ukraine will end up benefiting America, or with us coming out better off for it, is delusional, irrational or in cognitive decline.

              Biden, with his actions, is proving to be all 3.

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                "There is no way on Earth that Putin is going to allow NATO (America) to set up shop in the Ukraine." - Seems to me you are the only one living in that false scenario.

                I also since the idea of "allies" has no meaning to you either.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Fortunately I wrote an article about this scenario a few years back.

                  It is titled: Does America Want War with Russia?

                  You can go read it if you like, it is one of the 50 Hubs I still have published.

                  This is not a new situation, it is one America has pushed onto Russia for decades now.  There was a pause because of Trump in hostilities with Russia, now that Biden is POTUS he is picking up where Obama/Clinton left off.

                  So, I have given my evaluation of the potential conflict, it is a NO WIN situation.  Twenty years ago, ten years ago even, perhaps... before China became a more powerful Industrialized weaponized nation.

                  As to the corrupt machinations that have led up to this conflict, the article I mention gives an overview of what led us to this point.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    It has never been a good idea to go to war with Russia, or with anyone else for that matter.  For example, I assume you agree we should have stayed out of WW I.  Or not gone to war with Germany during WW II and just stuck with those that attacked us - Japan.  Am I correct?

                    But sometimes you have to do what you have to do on principle and simply because it is the right thing to do.

                    (btw, I don't think you responded to whether you opposed Kennedy's standoff with Khrushchev, would you have conceded there as well?)

          3. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I'll take your word for MG's military experience since is bio is silent on it.

            If Russia is determined and the West does not put troops on the ground in Ukraine, MG's scenario might well play out that way.  But I absolutely disagree with the idea that Russia (or China if they help) will not be hurt very much.

            "The West will impose sanctions but it will not have much of an effect. They have tried it earlier and nothing has happened." - the fact that the milquetoast sanctions in the past didn't work doesn't mean cutting Russia off from the world would not.  Even if Russia becomes a dependent state of China, they will have a hard time surviving with a viable economy.

            One thing I suspect will happen without military intervention is a few order of magnitudes increase in supply of anti-tank and anti-air weapons, say one for each tank and aircraft the Russians possess.  Do you think Russia can survive with a devastated air force and tank force?  Keep in mind, the Ukrainian civilians are gearing up for a fight now.  The more time they have to activate, the more costly an invasion by Russia will be.

            The Ukrainians are fighting for their life while the Russians are fighting for a murderer.

            BTW, from the tone of your defense of Russia, I would guess you opposed Kennedy's stand-off with Khrushchev back in the day.

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      As I asked in another forum - what is your alternative - give murdering Putin everything he wants?

  14. Sharlee01 profile image85
    Sharlee01posted 3 years ago

    For a short moment back to the threads original subject  --- What are the Great Things President Joe Biden Has Done While President

    ( I do realize this thread has become Trump central, but perhaps time to consider the subject it was posted under)

    It would appear Biden is not doing great things, in fact, his polls would indicate his agenda or policies are appreciated or liked by the greater majority of Americans. It would well seem his supporters have bailed on him. Polls indicate only 71% of Democrats support him at this point.

    How low can Biden's approval rating go?
    Reuters --   56% of Americans disapprove of the president
    UPDATED FEB. 3, 2022
    Only 71%of Dems support Biden...
    https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-BIDEN/ … opagnqapa/

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/bi … al-rating/
    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 … joe-biden/

    1. Valeant profile image78
      Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Not sure you understand the thread's original topic if you're quoting polls....

      And 538 only has a 52.8% disapproval with three very heavy far-right polls put in there.  Way to take the Ipsos and Rasmussen polling to make your case, which are two of those far-right polls.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I offered several polls including the very respected reuters poll which I quoted.

        I do think polls correlate with the subject of this thread  - What are the Great Things President Joe Biden Has Done While President

        The polls certainly reflect the failure of the president's agenda and policies.

        In fact, there is no better way to judge if the people feel Biden is doing "Great Things"...

        I think Reuters poll says it all. Not pretty, and getting worse.

        And Feb 2 2022 Gallop reported this dismal chart. Well appears many now were more satisfied in 2020.

        https://hubstatic.com/15881948_f1024.jpg

        https://news.gallup.com/poll/389309/ame … eport.aspx

        1. Valeant profile image78
          Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          That's an amazing chart from just before the pandemic.  So basically, most measures dropped significantly by the end of Trump's term.  That chart shows what a trainwreck the end of the Trump Administration was and helps explain why so many voted against him.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image85
            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            This chart was posted on Feb 2, 2022, and 2021 reflect Biden's first year in office. AS 2020 reflected Trump's final year in office. 2022 is current stats.

            No the pandemic hit in 2019, and Trump was president until Biden walked in 2021.  The stats for 2020 were collected while the pandemic was at its worst. 

            The chart speaks loudly, and anyone that views it can simply ascertain just how poorly Biden is doing, and the lack of satisfaction the  American people have in him.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Try March 2020 for the pandemic. The first case in the US was in late Jan or early Feb.

            2. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              While I didn't see Gallup say so, the data needs to be a year apart to be meaningful.  Since the the 2022 data was collected in the first part of Jan 2022, that means the 2020 and 2021 must have been collected in the first part of January in those respective years.

              To correct your timeline, the first peak was in April 2020. Subsequent peaks were in July 2020, Jan 2021, Apr 2021, Sep 2021, and Jan 2022.

              Based on that, it seem Valeant was correct.

            3. Valeant profile image78
              Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              You're right, the chart shows just how much things fell under Trump 'leadership' and now have to begin to rebound under new management.

              And the chart shows what happens when a President ignores warnings about a dangerous lab and does nothing:
              https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … rpt-474322

              And like Eso noted, popularity has nothing to do with effectiveness.  We will have to wait and see if Biden's policies have been good for the country through time.

              Should try posting a chart that has public support for the individual programs being put forward instead.
              Biden's stimulus:  70% approval
              Freedom to Vote Act:  70% approval
              Infrastructure Bill:  62% approval
              Build Back Better:  Individual pieces are above 60% but the bill is 47% approve-40% disapprove

              The American people are behind much of Biden's agenda.  Even two-thirds believe the government needs to do more to enact policy to combat climate change.

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                "Build Back Better:  Individual pieces are above 60% but the bill is 47% approve-40% disapprove"

                That would seem to be a problem with nearly everything Biden does.  A few parts of his great plans are good, and people approve, but then he wraps them in garbage that no one but a true blue socialist could approve of and consistently lies about the cost of his grandiose future (what politician doesn't?).

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          "I do think polls correlate with the subject of this thread  - What are the Great Things President Joe Biden Has Done While President" - I must agree with you on that to this extent - the polls show how well received his accomplishments are by the public.  The polls DO NOT, however, address whether the policies are good or bad.

          Because you have taken on the task of showing Biden in a bad light, you must use polls rather than facts to "prove" your point.

          Remember, because of a successful propaganda campaign by the Republicans (and Russians), ACA was the most hated policy in America. The Republicans did such a good job of lying about it that it cost the Democrats the Congress.  Today, Obamacare is loved by most Americans much to the chagrin of Republicans (who secretly use it a lot).;

          1. Sharlee01 profile image85
            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps you don't comprehend how polls work. When 71% of Democrats support a Democratic president that indicates he is polling very poorly... However. The current polls show Biden has little to no support from the American people. In fact, I have never seen Democrats poll such little support for one of their own.

            Polls are the only way to indicate how a president is doing. And this president has historically low polls.

            I know little about how Obamacare is doing, so I won't comment on it.

            1. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I am a statistician by training - of course I understand how polls work,  lol.  I am thinking it is you, the layperson, who doesn't.

              "When 71% of Democrats support a Democratic president that indicates he is polling very poorly..." - [i]But please educate me, what does that result have to do with the price of tea in China?  What does that have to do with whether his policies are good or not.  I have asked you that several times now and you keep ignoring it (for obvious reasons). 

              All your 71% is indicative if us that as of the time poll was taken, is that Biden has pissed off the progressives.  Nothing more and nothing less.

              You keep saying untrue things like "Biden has "little to no support from the American people" without acknowledging that Trump did worse. 

              Even though I think Trump is terrible person and worse leader (as well as being dangerously mentally ill), I won't make up a lie like that about him.  I am well aware that roughly 70% of Republicans and 40% independents support Trump for some unknown reason.  That translates to around 35% to 45% of Americans belong to his cult.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image71
      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Lets give a real list.

      Biden Shut Down the Keystone Pipeline

      Biden rejoined the Paris Accords

      Biden stopped Wall production and reversed Trump's Border Policies

      Biden worked hard to support the UAW (and GM)

      Biden rejoined the WHO

      Biden made strong efforts to initiate Vaccine Mandates wherever he could

      Biden is appointing as many hard Left judges as possible

      Biden revoked Trump’s Medicaid work rules

      Biden recommitted us to paying for NATO

      Biden scrapped Trump’s new citizenship test

      Biden pulled us out of Afghanistan

      Biden helped get the Infrastructure Bill to pass

      Its a matter of where you stand on those issues, and the other things he is trying to do, that determine whether you think he has done well, or not.

    3. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Again, you are trying peoples opinions as proof whether a policy is good or not.  It just doesn't work that way, sorry.

      To be relevant, you have to show how a particular policy is bad for America (since it is your goal to show President Biden in a bad light in spite of the facts to the contrary).

      For example, you need to show how the American Rescue Plan hurt Americans.

      or show how rolling out vaccines way ahead of Trump's plan is bad for Americans.

      or show how the bi-partisan infrastructure plan is bad for Americans.

      Can you actually prove each of those accomplishments hurt America?

  15. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    This thread sure did go sideways in a hurry.

    1. GA Anderson profile image83
      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, and a welcome "sideways" it is. ;-)

      GA

  16. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
    Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

    Putin is determined to rebuild the Russian empire.
    When he became President of Russia 21 years ago,  he declared his intention to restore Russian greatness.  He described the collapse of the Soviet Union as the greatest tragedy of the 20th Century.  Putin has clearly embarked on a project to re-establish a Russian empire in Europe and Eurasia. The question is, will we let him?

    1. GA Anderson profile image83
      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Your thoughts infer Putin is on the road to invading NATO nations to restore the Russian empire. I don't see that. To do so is automatic war, not a `maybe' war like Ukraine. I don't think that will happen.

      If that is right then he must see Ukraine as important enough to risk a "maybe" war. What would he get from conquering Ukraine? What is it about Ukraine that is so important to him? I don't see an answer. Is it political, territorial, or financial, (resources, etc.), gain?

      It seems the only pro-aggressive U.S. stance is the boogieman stance you noted. And it seems that to hold such a view demands the view that Putin will invade a NATO nation and start WWIII. I don't see it.

      *I have heard thoughts about territorial control of the gas pipeline through Ukraine. *shrug

      GA

      1. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        GA: Here is what I have learned.

        Here are the forces that are at work in the Russia/Ukraine crisis.

        Russia has natural gas pipeline called Nordstream 1 that went across Ukraine from Russia to Germany.  Ukraine was being paid a transfer fee for the right to have Russian gas transferred across their country.

        Now Putin has built  Nordstream 2 which  bypasses the Ukraine completely as it goes undersea from Russia to Germany.  This has upset Ukraine because it no longer gets the Transfer fee from Russia.

        Nord Stream 1 has a total annual capacity of 55 billion m3 (1.9 trillion cu ft) of gas, and the construction of Nord Stream 2 is expected to double this capacity to a total of 110 billion m3 (3.9 trillion cu ft).

        The U.S. and its NATO partners are afraid that Putin can use Nordstream  2 as leverage to control those in Europe who need the cheaper gas.

        The new chancellor of Germany, is at cross-roads, because he wants to support NATO, but doesn't want to lose out on the gas.

        Putin is upset because Russia is ringed with NATO countries and NATO has broken their deal of not advancing closer to the Russia borders. Biden is deploying troops and equipment in Germany, Poland, and Romania,

        Without getting inside Putin's brain, no one knows what he is going to do. But the latest, is he only has a few weeks to mount an invasion because of winter weather conditions will not be favorable for an invasion.


        So if Putin invades Ukraine, NATO's plan is to shut off Nordstream 2 and cut-off gas to Europe. Ukraine will try to defend itself with its own troops, including the military equipment we have sent there.

        I think it will be a low-level conflict because, there is too much to lose on all sides with an all out war. I think Putin would like to overthrow  President Zelensky of Ukraine and put somebody in that position that he can trust, like the former president, Proshenko. 

        Putin may not have as much military poised at the borders, as he would like us to think he does.  He is very good at deception.  Some of the equipment and troops could even be fake, in the form of inflatable balloons used as decoys. He has done it before and so have we.

        Here is the latest from the BBC. There are other links embedded in this article that will give you even more information.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          That sounds like a fair summation Mike. I did look around enough to understand the basics, (I think), and your summation matches up.

          I have formed an uninformed opinion. I don't think Putin wants to invade Ukraine. I think this issue is high-stakes posturing to force a diplomatic solution in his interests. If those interests are solely his stopping the closing of the NATO ring, I think they are worth considering.

          But, I think Putin will invade Ukraine if forced to back-up his bluff. He would still get the incomplete NATO ring he wants, (if that is what he wants), it would just cost him and Europe a lot more in tragedy and devastation.

          GA

          1. Ken Burgess profile image71
            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Nord 2 is not factoring in to the economics of the situation, it is not a primary source for Germany, yet.

            It is the people of Germany and elsewhere that will suffer SHORTAGES of fuel/energy should Nord 1 and Nord 2 be shut down, winter is probably not the best time for there to be shortages of natural gas... who would be hurt more by that Germany or Russia?

            I think Ukraine has been led astray into believing that "the West" will stand up for them, I think our interference and our supplying them with weapons is only going to bring them much suffering for trusting in America and its motives... similar to how Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya have suffered because we "aided" them in throwing off their "repressive evil regimes".

            I am somewhat dumbfounded by the fact that there could be enough people in the Ukraine thinking it a good idea to side with "the West" when Russia is adamantly saying it will in no circumstances accept their alliance with NATO.

            Did they not see how America abandoned Afghanistan?

            Did they not see how well off we left Iraq after ridding them of Saddam?

            You have to want to see the destruction of your nation if you are Ukraine leadership and think you can join "the West" when Russia now has the backing of China to do "whatever is necessary" in regards to the Ukraine.

            If the Ukraine leadership weren't backed by billions in corrupt funding from "the West" they would quickly make amends with Russia and join the Russian trade alliance and swear off joining NATO.

            The problem would be solved, Russia would back down, there would be no war.

            As excellent, objective, review of the situation as I could find, well worth the watch:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2P9AmGcMdM

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            "But, I think Putin will invade Ukraine if forced to back-up his bluff. " - [i]Isn't that at the crux of the issue?  Putin wanted to "bluff" his way into bring Ukraine back into the Soviet/Russian orbit.

            Ukraine and the West are calling his bluff (although several on this forum would rather let Putin have his way with the world.)

            Since we ARE calling his bluff, will Putin be irrational enough to follow through with it.  My bet is that if we show ANY sign of weakness, he will attack since Ukraine is not going to buckle under his bullying.

      2. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Again, GA, you are trying to treat murdering Putin like he is rational.  He is not.  He wants the Baltic states back for starters and if you hand over Ukraine to him like several here want the West to do, then it will be much more difficult to stop him from taking back what he thinks is rightfully his.

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Well Scott, right from the start we disagree. My impression of Putin is that he is a very rational, savvy, and determined man. We apparently disagree on the strength of the NATO shield relative to whether Putin would challenge the West's treaty commitments. I don't think Putin would invade a NATO nation.

          GA

    2. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry Faye, Ken doesn't want you using the 20th century - it has no meaning to him.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Faye, do you really believe Putin would risk a world war?

      And your sentiment "will we let him" --- what do you mean by that?

      1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I've read quite a bit on Putin's history as well as opinion pieces from former diplomats. I'm convinced  he wants to rebuild the former Soviet sphere of influence  and views this effort as a restoration of Russian greatness. Sort of like a "Make Russia great again" campaign.  He has never disguised his bitter feelings about the collapse of the Soviet Union. He said, in his 2005 state of the nation address, “The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” This, in my opinion, is a man on a mission.
        If anyone has a bigger ego than Mr Trump it would be Putin. I think he may view it as his legacy.
        Look at his history over the last decade.
        Putin has tried to reestablish a degree of Russian control by force in now-independent countries he believes were unfairly ripped from Russia.
        He invaded Georgia and maintains troops in ethnic enclaves there, as well as in a corner of Moldova. Russia now has effective control over Belarus via its Russia-dependent dictator. And Putin just sent 2,200 troops to Kazakhstan to help another Russia-friendly leader pull a coup and massacre hundreds of demonstrators.

        And then there is Ukraine, where he invaded in 2014, annexing Crimea and setting up Russian proxies in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.
        Yet, it is Russia that has massed weapons along the border of Ukraine, against a country that presents no physical threat to them. It is Russia that has moved missiles to Kaliningrad, a Russian province on the Baltic Sea between two NATO nations. It is Putin who is making threatening moves.
        By demanding an end to further NATO enlargement and a ban on Ukraine's accession to NATO, Putin, IMO is not seeking to enhance Russia's  security. Instead,  He is seeking recognition of its right to intervene, including militarily, in countries that they  believe remain its colonies.
        Do we continue to appease him? Remember what Winston Churchill, said about appeasers: they are the ones who feed crocodiles, hoping they will be eaten last.
        How to deal with him?  I've recently read a great deal about the Magnitsky Act (It freezes certain Russian officials’ access to the stashes they were keeping in Western banks and real estate) being used to hit Putin and Russian oligarchs where it matters most, blocking access to their ill- gotten money.

        Ultimately, I don't think Putin believes he's risking a world war. Putin’s apparent indifference towards Western warnings is understandable. He has been hearing the same empty promises of decisive action, typically accompanied by expressions of grave concern, ever since the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008.
        Just my two sense and some thoughts.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you for sharing, a very interesting and informative view. I will admit Putin is somewhat of an enigma in my view. Very hard to predict what he might have up his sleeve.

          I don't imagine we will see another card played by him until the Olympics end in China. What that card may be is anyone's guess. I would think he will move in on Ukraine. he does not seem like he is the sort to back down.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Faye wrote these true words He (murdering Putin) has been hearing the same empty promises of decisive action, typically accompanied by expressions of grave concern, ever since the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008.  - Bush, then Obama, then Trump let the world down be appeasing Putin and now we see where that has led us - to the brink of a Russian inspired war.

            I still don't understand your mindset, Sharlee. You downplay Putin's murderous character by calling him an "enigma".  That is almost excusing him.  You do the same with Trump.  I just don't get it.

            But, I do agree, I don't think he will do anything during the Olympics.  While he is waiting, the West should be shipping Ukraine thousands upon thousands of anti-air missiles, one for every Ukrainian citizen.  That way, when Putin does cross the border, his air force won't last the day.

            Then, with all of the anti-tank missiles that have been supplied, the Ukrainians will have a fair shot of kicking his ass.

            1. peoplepower73 profile image85
              peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Scott:  If you are interested, here is a look at the 10 most deadly weapons systems that Putin could use in an invasion of Ukraine.

              https://fb.watch/b474oJRmWB/

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                That reminded me of something else we should be supplying to the Ukrainians, if we aren't already doing so - counter-battery radar and lots of artillery pieces to help defeat Russian artillery.

                The Ukrainian air force will never be a match to the Russians, not even close.  That is why we need to supply a few hundred thousand Stinger (or more modern) anti-air missiles to neutralize the Russian air force quickly.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              My comment to Faye was short and polite because I do respect the time and effort she put forth sharing her well-educated view. I did not respond in depth because I just think predicting what Putin could do or not do would be futile at this juncture.  When using the term enigma I felt it suited this current situation, I feel Putin is being very enigmatic at this point.
              I don't think anyone can figure out what he will do or won't do.

              I did not in any respect mention or feel the need to mention his character in this given conversation. I have strong feelings about his character as most Americans do.

              What we know of his character, is that he is not a man that will be toyed with. He is a ruthless leader that leads from strength, and using pure aggression would not be at all out of his character.

              I agree on the US should be sending weapons to Ukraine as quickly as possible. I have no idea if this is being done. Hopefully, it is being done with good speed.

  17. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    Well, he did exactly what you thought he'd do - Ignored every other positive just to complain about the inflationary effects on wages.  These right-wingers are nothing if not predictable.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, and he falls back on not reading the words as written and inserts his own.

  18. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    Yesterday, the Treasury noted that the U.S. budget had a surplus of $119 billion in January.  That’s the first budget surplus in more than two years. Tax receipts are up significantly: they grew 21% in January to $465 billion, as higher employment and earnings meant a big jump in payroll taxes and withholdings. At the same time, outlays fell 37%.

    Amazing how much can be saved from a President who doesn't golf (and that can be a bipartisan dig at both Obama and Trump).

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Relative to Trump, Obama didn't know what a golf course looked like, lol.

    2. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it is amazing.  How much a President doesn't golf can reduce real income via inflation through ill conceived plans.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        That, of course, proves you have no conception of what causes inflation.  Please educate yourself.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Come on  Val --- Golf? This president has so many problems without outdoor activity. Have you checked the inflation rate or the price per barrel of oil?  It is going up weekly, and soon will be over $100 a barrel.  My gosh if he golfed we would most likely be rationing food and gas, with every other day brownouts.

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Have YOU checked what causes inflation - ever?  Hint: It isn't Biden.  As I recommended to Wilderness, you really should educate yourself about what causes inflation (or higher oil prices for that matter).  You might actually learn something and put the blame where it belongs rather than let your severe case of Biden Derangement Syndrome rule your life.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          No, it's Biden... You can fool yourself. From day one the writing was on the wall that he would cause not only inflation but many many problems. As I have been saying as his poor decisions pile up. --- he is ill equipt to be a leader.  It is almost hard to comprehend how all could go so badly in such a short time. And one need face it could get worse. Thank God we have a stalemated Congress.  This man is a disaster.

          And it is clear that I am not alone in my critique of Biden. I sit with the majority. It would be you that have a derangement syndrome, actually it a[pears you have several.

          I predict his polls will take a further nose dive this upcoming week. I think many are feeling that he is a very weak leader, and are fearing having this man deal with a foreign conflict with Russia.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            The ONLY person fooling themselves here is you, Sharlee.  Your BDS is so powerful, it has blinded you to reality.

            You are correct, you are not alone in falsely thinking Biden or the Democrats can control inflation.  There are a lot of people out their who wrongly believe your BDS-driven propaganda.

            You know who DOESN'T agree with you?  All most all ECONOMISTS.(I must assume there are a few under Trump's spell who won't).  Unlike you, they know what causes inflation and it isn't a president nor is it a political party.

            I see you are back to trying to use polls to prove facts.  Sooner or later I hope you learn that doesn't work either.

            As to how people FEEL EMOTIONALLY about President Biden, I suspect you are right.  But how people feel today could change tomorrow. 

            Whether a policy Biden's proposes is good or bad doesn't change on emotional whims, it is either good, bad, or neutral and it generally stays that way regardless of how people FEEL about it.

            The ONLY place where FEELINGS like this matter, is a few months before an election.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            BTW, I see you didn't answer the question about whether you have ever checked to see what causes inflation.  I guess the answer is NO, you haven't.

        2. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          One thing that will do it is giving out trillions in cash for nothing in return.  More cash = more demand (without increased production) = higher prices (called inflation).

          Another that will do it is reducing the work force by paying people to stay home.  More demand for workers = higher wages (again without production gains) = inflation.

          You might retake Econ 101 - I think these things would be covered there.

          1. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            That would be true, Wilderness, IF we were at full capacity.  But we weren't and aren't.

            Are you still putting forward that will debunked ruse that people were paid to stay home.  I figured you would get tired of putting out misinformation.

            Well, I already suggested you take Econ 101.  Me, I have had Econ 101, 102, 103, 104 as well as obtained a professional certification in Cost and Economic Analysis.  I guess you forgot the last time I told you that. 

            So yes, I know what I am talking about - unlike you.

      2. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Come on Shar, stop deflecting to your same stupid talking points.  I gave a great shot to laugh along or to admit a positive and you went right back to your hate.

        Noting inflation without wage gain.  Price of oil, without noting when US oil production was actually cut.  Your blind blame games are so tired at this point.

        As long as you won't bother acknowledging the surplus, maybe I can get you to admit you're part of a violent cult:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJUUtSh8IyE

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          I'll have to look into that "Read 3x faster ad at the beginning of the piece.

  19. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    Obviously I am a big Biden fan, but even the best of people have self-destructive blind spots.  In President Biden's case, it is Afghanistan.  Not only do I believe he screwed the pooch in carrying out his obsession with getting out of there, now he digs himself a deeper hole by defending a clearly flawed (remember, I am retired Army/Air Force) DoD report on what happened with the suicide bombing in Kabul.

    Fortunately, he has so many other positives to his credit, it makes up for these disappointments.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … tr-vpx.cnn

  20. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
    Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

    Just a thought on one of the many contributors to inflation. I’m trying to understand how or maybe why companies are beating earnings forecasts and in some cases have record profit growth during a time of increased expenses (shipping containers for example). I understand most companies are passing along their increased cost to the consumer, but if a company blames that their costs have increased, so the prices of their goods/services need to increase to cover the cost, then how can they in turn have record profits?

    We've all noticed higher prices on  groceries and other  consumer goods. In December, the U.S. consumer price index rose by 7% year over year.
    In response to rising inflation and supply chain issues, some (most) companies have passed along their higher costs to us. 
    Some economists and even some  politicians have raised concerns about the prices of consumer goods, pointing out that although some companies cite inflation or supply chain issues as their rationale for increases, they’re not just breaking even,  they’re raking in high profits!
    Corporations are using the excuse of inflation to raise prices and make large profits.  In turn it's adding to the problem of inflation.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      You are certainly correct.  I have seen several reports lately going into what you just observed - inflation caused by greed.

      I have studied a lot about economics but that is one area that I have not looked into closely - I think I will.

      One are of greed I did study was its impact on causing recessions and depressions.  It is the first of five factors I list in my book which, if all are present, a 2008-type recession is likely to happen.

  21. My Esoteric profile image87
    My Esotericposted 3 years ago

    Here is what I am talking about between the difference in perceptions (poll results) and reality.

    Most Americans have come out ahead economically from the pandemic in spite of inflation

    This analysis notes that The highest rate of inflation in four decades -- 7.5% on an annual basis in last week's government data -- explains part of the sour mood. Yet that worrisome milestone is directly related to another, more reassuring one: the highest annual economic growth in four decades, with an unemployment rate of just 4%.

    economists at the University of California-Berkeley estimate that disposable income for Americans overall increased by 5.3% after inflation from December 2019 to December 2021.

    I know you President Biden haters hate to see facts like that, but there you go.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/13/politics … index.html

    1. tsmog profile image83
      tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting information! And, I agree there is always more than one perspective. Yet, that 5.3% increase does not apply to me with a fixed income, so in essence is kinda' worthless. But, the inflation figure does because I do experience it at the gas pump and grocery store. Alas, isn't that the funny thing about perspectives?

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, that would be true.  And even if your fixed income is inflation adjusted, it often lags in any case.  Your situation would be even more serious if your fixed income is on the low side.

        That is what Conservatives often do not understand, not everybody can simply go find a job or demand higher pay yet that seems to be their one-size fits all panacea to any low income situation.

        That is where their demand that everybody pay the same flat rate (in order to be "fair") fails dramatically.  Those on fixed income or are stuck in low wage jobs simply do not have the room to pay 10% of their income and still live, let alone live well.

        Another "funny" thing about perception is that one would think that with well over 50% of Americans doing OK, the polls would reflect that.  But they don't.  What they reflect is that most Americans live on fixed incomes or receive very low wages (which, btw, many are beating inflation today - finally, although the wages are still very low).

        1. tsmog profile image83
          tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, you would think the polls would reflect many are doing better. That is why I always look to see the sample size of a poll, type, and who conducted it. I use five thirty eight  as a guide while always seek  to see if Pew Research   has looked into it. If anything they usually provide the methodology and sample size. Gallup does a good job as well.

  22. Valeant profile image78
    Valeantposted 3 years ago

    What the right on this site seem to be willing to ignore is that Biden is doing exactly what he was elected to do - not be Trump.  No texts, no golf, no using the government to line his own pockets, no violations of the law since he was elected.

    There's some good (which they completely ignore) and some clear areas of concern.  Biden wasn't supposed to be a messiah, he was supposed to be a good man that didn't inspire white supremacists and turn Americans into domestic terrorists.  It was a low bar that he has cleared by a mile.

    And once Trump gets the nomination in 2024, we will be right back to where we were in 2020.  With over half the country voting for anything but Trump's brand of autocracy, lawlessness, and continued inspiration of turning Americans against their fellow Americans.

    2020 wasn't an election, it was purely an eviction.

    1. My Esoteric profile image87
      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Well put, although I would add that he was elected to repair the damage Trump caused to America's credibility, prestige, esteem, and pride as well as the physical damage he did to democracy and the institutions of democracy.  He is doing well along those lines but has much more to do.

      Under Trump, I was embarrassed to be an American.  Under Biden, I am proud again to be one (his terrible decision with Afghanistan not withstanding).

      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Proud of what? My God, we have never looked so ridiculous to the world in my opinion. We have never been so divided, we have never spiraled out of control to this extent in decades. Proud? 

        And more to come...

        1. Valeant profile image78
          Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, we have looked more ridiculous.  You like polls, here are the ones that show when we did look the most ridiculous and then ones showing how we have rebounded after Biden's election.

          https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020 … rus-badly/

          https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021 … -to-biden/

          Never spiraled out of control to this extent?  Are you kidding?  It wasn't Biden who had to shut down most of the US economy because he couldn't protect American from a pandemic.  It wasn't Biden who took low unemployment rates and doubled them.  It wasn't Biden who set record national deficits in just four years.  That's some spiraling.  As always, take your blinders off.

          And what continues to divide us is Trumpism, who lashes out at any bipartisan action the country takes.  He calls anyone who votes with Democrats, RINO's.  Why does such chaos make you proud?

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Interesting.  Trump was loudly faulted for not doing enough to stop the pandemic while in office; now he is faulted for doing too much. 

            What continues to divide us is the insistence that each is 100% right, and each side refuses to consider any compromise because they already have all the answers and those answers work for everybody because, after all, they are 100% right.

            Coupled, of course, with the insistence that Trump is 100% evil, did and does nothing right and has an incorrect vision of what the country needs...with that same attitude directed towards anyone not on the "Trash Trump" bandwagon.  Just a subset of the first, but a very strong and very vocal subset that sets the teeth on edge of those that don't agree.

            You make it sound like Trump (and whoever isn't on your bandwagon) are the only ones dividing.  He (and they) are not.

            1. Valeant profile image78
              Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, I fault his ignorance of the 2018 warnings, which I have posted many times here, for leading to a shutdown of much of our economy.  That's not doing too much, but having not done anything that led to a spiral of our economy.

              And it's not what's right, but what is popular among the American people.  When Republicans cannot get on board with policies that 65%-70% of the American people support, that's not about being right or wrong, it's about denying what the people want.

              Even the simplest thing like voting to prevent America from not defaulting on their debt is something Trump rails against, even when it's something clearly bipartisan and in the best interest of the nation.

              And as always, you ignore the times when even partisans like Eso and I have noted Trump policies that did work to make an inaccurate claim that there we insist he 'did and does nothing right...'

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                "When Republicans cannot get on board with policies that 65%-70% of the American people support..."

                The would seem to indicate that only 30% of the population is conservative (Republican, that is) but we both know better.  Must be a lot of Republicans getting jabbed.  All those that want to be jabbed got it - the problem is that they also demand that those that do NOT want it be jabbed as well.  Control of others, that's the liberal mantra.

                You want to prevent America from defaulting, stop spending like madmen.  Raise taxes to pay the debt.  But DO NOT simply borrow more so you can have a higher debt.

                Yes, ESO found one policy he liked, and I commented on it.  How about you?  Can you find more than one thing he did right?  Perhaps shutting down a great deal of border crossings?  Perhaps his attempt to force Congress to stop ignoring the illegal problem within the country, specifically all those kids Obama put into some kind of second class citizenry because Congress didn't it's job then either?  Putting honest judges on SCOTUS rather than ones that will vote their conscience or the liberal platform?  Was it good policies that lowered black unemployment to the lowest point ever or do you give credit to Obama for that?

                Does he get credit for convincing companies to leave their primary products behind and make masks or ventilators?  How about bringing businesses, and their jobs, back into the country? 

                Trump did quite a bit of good things during his short stay; far more than the past few did in their 8 years.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  "he problem is that they also demand that those that do NOT want it be jabbed as well.  " - Which simply proves my point - Conservatives don't give a damn about hurting others through their own bad decisions.

                  I think I said earlier that I will be coming to the point where I agree with Wilderness on this issue.  ONCE, the child vaccine is out and responsible parents have had time to get their 6 month to 5 year olds vaccinated then I think all restrictions should come off.

                  Why?  Because no longer will innocents (other than the children of stupid parents) be hurt by the stupidity of those who do not want to get vaccinated.  Those who were smart enough to get vaccinated are protected from getting really sick or dying as the result of the selfishness of others.

                  Right now nearly 2,500 mostly Trump Republicans are dying from Covid.  Well, they can just keep dying (to take the Conservative point of view). They had their chance to protect themselves and they chose to commit suicide instead.

                  "Yes, ESO found one policy he liked, and I commented on it." - Except you made a very false statement with your comment, as I have pointed out a couple of times.  Let me put in caps so it MIGHT get through your blood-brain barrier.  THERE ARE A [i]FEW THINGS I GIVE TRUMP CREDIT FOR.  BUT ONLY A FEW [/i]

                  Did Trump bring back jobs from overseas?  NO.  https://www.epi.org/publication/reshori … ring-jobs/

                  President Donald Trump, after much reluctance, has used the powers of the Defense Production Act to compel companies to manufacture items in short supply that would aid in the U.S. response to the deadly coronavirus.   - Sounds like to me that Trump was FORCED to do what you think he did voluntarily.  So, no, I don't give him credit for it.
                  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/coronav … o-far.html

                  And putting Conservatives who want to take away a woman's right to choose, voting rights, civil rights and basically move America back to the bad old days on SCOTUS is NOT a good thing and worthy of any sort of credit.

              2. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                I have a little different view of it which lets Trump off the hook, but only a little bit.

                There is no question Trump screwed up royally in reacting to the pandemic.  I don't fault him for a slow start in January given nobody REALLY knew what was about to crash on our heads.

                But, from February one, Trump only made things worse (other than approving Operation Warpspeed).  I do not think there was much choice to the first wave of shutting down the economy - I don't know what else could have been done even had Trump reacted appropriately.  BUT, because he did not, everything from July 2020 is on him.  It simply did not have to be has bad as it turned out to be in virtually EVERY aspect of the pandemic (again save for the amazingly fast development of a vaccine.)

                And even with giving him credit for having vaccines available in Dec 2020, he was ill prepared to get them into peoples arms in sufficient numbers.  It took President Biden to do that.

                1. Valeant profile image78
                  Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  'There is no question Trump screwed up royally in reacting to the pandemic.'

                  By about two years if you ask me...
                  https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … rpt-474322

              3. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                No, what divides us is Trump insisting he won and almost 40% of the country believing the Big Lie and with many to commit MORE violence to defend the LIE.

                Yes, it is Trump and his Trump Republicans that is doing 95% of the dividing.  No question about it.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I do respect polls to an extent. They are all we have to go on. Your example rings shallow. First, the Pew poll you supplied in regard to Trump did you not the date, and the subject  --- June 2020   U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly

              Yes, your poll from June 2021 shows Joe in a better light. however skip to the present  Jan 2022, not so pretty.
              Joe Biden began his presidency with positive job ratings and broad public confidence in his ability to deal with a number of major challenges – particularly the public health impact of the coronavirus. He starts his second year with diminished job approval and majorities expressing little or no confidence in him on many of these same issues, the coronavirus included.

              "  It wasn't Biden who had to shut down most of the US economy because he couldn't protect American from a pandemic.  "

              Trump shut down the country due to a dire need to protect the country from an unknown enemy. You had a different tune back then. You complained when Trump was pushing to open the country in the summer of 2020. Most of the world followed his lead. and we can be thankful they did. We would have lost many more lives in the first months that COVID hit. I don't need to call you hypocritical your words do the trick.

              Biden did nothing in regard to bringing people into the workforce, he paid them to stay home, he create inflation... That's my view, and anyone with a brain can see that the numbers have gotten better due to the flow of cash stopped, and people are returning to the workforce. Believe what you please. That's my take.

              I don't care what Trump is doing --- he is not the president.  Biden is, and for me --- I could not be more ashamed of American's for voting in a man that was clearly losing cognitive abilities. And a man that in no respect can handle the job of the presidency. What continues to divide us is that perhaps half the country is done with the status quo, and are no longer willing to sit back and see America ruined.  And in my view, this will only progress... Many of us do not want a puppet in a suit, being told what to do and say due to just not having the qualifications to do his job.


              recent polls are a good way to measure current approval. The old ones matter little.

              https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 … hallenges/


              Did you also note the date of your Biden research poll?

              1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Sharlee: The  problem  that I  see is half of the country wants a lying con artist for president, so they can be associated with his glitz and glamor, even if they know he is lying.  That's part of the con and indicates how successful the con is.

                I just watched a Netflix special called Inventing Anna Delvy.  It shows how a 29 year old con artist conned here way to high society and the millionaire culture, when she didn't have a penny to her name.  I  saw so  much of Trump in her behavior and demeanor. When a con artist is working their con, the people they are conning just want to be associated with them. They don't care if they are being lied to or not.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  People, I think that real reason for Trump's popularity comes from a far more sinister aspect of American society.

                  He is nothing more than a tyrant without the character to come out and just say so. All the talk about his being this novel breath of fresh air in Washington, and being an example of a strong leader is just so much bunk.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Trump conned a lot of Good People into believe his con.  He also played to the bad in people which brought them to the polls as well. (and there are a whole lot more bad people in America than my apparently naïve view of American character allowed me to believe). 

                    After four years of seeing what Trump actually was, the Good People voted for Biden. 

                    The sad thing is, because of Biden gaffes, missteps, unfortunate events, and very good propaganda from the Right (and yes, Sharlee, the appearance of weakness - he isn't in reality, but certainly comes across that way) those same Good People may elect Trump Republicans again in 2022.

                    I learned very recently that my wife dumped a guy in her past because he was "too good, too nice"..  I always thought those kinds of guys are hard to come by.

                2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Speaking of con artists --- You want a good "con story'   Here is one that has backfired.

                  "Durham probe has 'accelerated,' with more people 'cooperating,' coming before a grand jury"
                  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/durham … grand-jury

                  We will finally get to the full truth on the Democratic grift of a century.
                  I am so glad Durham has handled this investigation in a respectful manner and prevented leaks. Justice will prevail. And actually, Trump will be exonerated on all Russia Russia Russia scams.

                  The DNC and the Clinton are going to be outed and hopefully punished to prevent this kind of corruption from happening again.
                  https://www.nationalreview.com/news/dur … ite-house/
                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … li=BBnbcA1
                  https://news.yahoo.com/durham-motion-al … 12108.html
                  https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/rep-jorda … ut-spying/
                  https://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-cl … 1644852226
                  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … rvers.html
                  https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/t … el-susmann

                  Trump blasted the media claiming they were not covering this breaking story... he was wrong, they are jumping on it... All but CNN.

                  1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                    peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Sharlee: I'm nor going to read all those right wing links.  That's ridiculous and time consuming. Here is CNN's side of the story, hot off the press.

                    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/14/politics … index.html

                    Trump and his legal team are doing just what con artists do.  When con artists are attacked, they will  attack the attackers to distract and save their own  a**es. That's what Trump is doing.

                    He is still pulling the big lie  con.   He will not give up, because in his sick ego, he has to win, even if he has to fool himself and his people into believing he won.

                    1. GA Anderson profile image83
                      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Okay Mike, now that there takes the cake . . . Using CNN as the benchmark for dismissing "right wing links.'

                      Plus, you included MSN.com as a right-wing link. Surely you can see the irony?

                      GA

                    2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      CNN is late to the game. They released nothing until late today on the story...In fact, the story is miss dated Feb 15.  I found nothing published by CNN, and I don't watch their cable network, so not sure if they addressed it on air.

                      My comment is all about the Durham investigation, not about what you feel Trump has done, but in this case what was done to Trump. This new information is damming and shows just what the Clinton campaign and their flunkies hoped to pull off. In my view, this is a disgusting scandal and shows to what lengths the Democrats and Clinton campaigns would go to smear Trump, and try to win the election.

                      And I was careful to post a couple of Left-leaning outlets, although not many were covering the story this morning, but have since decided they would. It will be one of the biggest stories I would think of the decade. It's such a shame our politicians are so slimy. 
                      Yahoo MSN
                      Wall Street Journal
                      NBC

                      And more outlets are picking up on the story in the last few hours
                      .https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-really-was-spied-on-2016-clinton-campaign-john-durham-court-filing-11644878973
                         https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic … -rcna16123
                      https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … ed-mainst/
                      https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/john-durham
                      It did not surprise me that they would hold out and put fingers in their ears... But this story is loud and provides demonstrative evidence of wrongdoing... Just can't be ignored.

                      I had faith in our justice system and Durham, and I am pleased to see he is unearthing the facts, and providing Americans the truth of what crimes were committed during Russiagate, and who was involved in the scam.

                  2. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    ROFL, again.

                    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Not sure why this is funny. I don't think most American's would find this kind of corruption funny. It's disgusting and embarrassing. This investigation will most likely produce more crimes and involve many people. It's not funny, it's a disgrace. and IMO it is the very root that caused the hate we live with now.

                      AGIAN when faced with facts, you offer a silly reply.

              2. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                "Trump shut down the country " - [i]I will argue that Trump had virtually nothing to do with shutting down the economy (sorry Valeant), it was the states.  For one very short period Trump went along with it, and then, in April, I think, started pushing to open the economy back up while discouraging mask wearing and social distancing. In other words, he wanted more people to get sick and die so his buddies can make money.  Fortunately, many of his buddies were smarter than him and kept their plants closed if they couldn't protect their workers.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Of COURSE we have looked more ridiculous, from 2016 to 2021. You are right, we have never been so divided (in modern times) because of Trump!

            I know being friends with our allies again is nothing to be proud of for Trumpers - he spent a lot of time and effort making enemies of our former friends, why let that go to waste, eh?.

            I known that being respected by our allies again is nothing to be proud of for you

            I know one should be ashamed of the American Rescue Plan

            I know we all should rue the day that Biden set out and accomplished providing enough vaccines for everyone in America to be vaccinated - In record time.

            I know it was just so horrible he got a bi-partisan infrastructure plan past.

            I know it must upset you terribly that most Americans are better off then they were before the pandemic IN SPITE of inflation.

            Yeah, you are right, nothing to be proud of.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              You have deflected back to Trump away from Sussman news.

    2. Valeant profile image78
      Valeantposted 3 years ago

      I just find it comical how accepting Trump supporters are that someone using Russian communication equipment in Trump's Administration is fine, but those that discovered it and reported that to the CIA are the traitors.

      #Toodumbtoseetherealtraitors

      1. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Yep, it certainly seems that way, doesn't it.

    3. Valeant profile image78
      Valeantposted 3 years ago

      The ugly ball of lies as you call them began when Trump asked the Russia government to find Hillary's e-mails.  They continued when his campaign coordinated with Wikileaks on the release of those hacks.  And they culminated with Trump's campaign chairman coordinating with members of Russian Intelligence to target those releases and propaganda in certain areas of the country.

      Those facts were all proven by multiple Congressional reports.  You cannot sit there and claim Trump's campaign is the bastion of innocence.

      And some low-level lawyer engaged in putting together a report about that hostile foreign government using communications near the Trump campaign.  Then the Mueller Report detailing the hundreds of contacts between the campaign and Russians, as well as confirming Manafort coordinating with Russian Intelligence. 

      And we have you here chastising those trying to protect national security and distracting from the fact that Trump's campaign colluded with a hostile foreign government to win the 2016 election.

      1. peoplepower73 profile image85
        peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Here is what I found out about the alleged spying by Hillary Clinton.

        "John Durham, appointed by then-Attorney General William Barr in 2020 to probe the origins of the FBI’s investigation of Russian election interference, said “Tech Executive-1,” not named in the filing but first identified by The New York Times as Rodney Joffe, used his access to domain name system, or DNS, data to compile information about which computers and servers the White House servers were communicating with.

        Trump and his allies said the disclosure was proof that Trump was under surveillance while he was in office. “They were spying on the sitting president of the United States,” Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, told Fox News on Sunday. “And it goes right to the Clinton campaign.” In a statement Monday, Trump said the alleged spying was “the biggest story of our time, bigger than Watergate.”


        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic … -rcna16123

        Special counsel John Durham charged lawyer Michael Sussman over a statement during a Sept. 19, 2016 meeting between Sussmann and the then-FBI general counsel, James Baker, at which Sussman told Baker about suspicions relating to alleged secret communications between the Trump campaign and Russia. The suspicions were later determined to be unfounded.

        According to the indictment, "During the meeting, Sussmann lied about the capacity in which he was providing the allegations to the FBI. Specifically, Sussmann stated falsely that he was not doing his work on the aforementioned allegations ‘for any client,’ which led the FBI General Counsel to understand that Sussmann was acting as a good citizen merely passing along information, not as a paid advocate or political operative."

        "In fact, Sussmann acted on behalf of specific clients, namely a U.S. Technology Industry Executive, a U.S. Internet Company and the Hillary Clinton Presidential Campaign.”

        The indictment says the lie was material because it misled the FBI “about the political nature of his work.”


        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic … n-n1279353


        Anyone who  has ever worked on computers knows how to use DOS commands to check  networks for communications  between computers. It's  easy  to  convert DNS (Domain Name Service) to IP addresses.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          .  "And they culminated with Trump's campaign chairman coordinating with members of Russian Intelligence to target those releases and propaganda in certain areas of the country." This is misinformation... Mistruth

          Again I provide facts on Manford

          "Manafort was charged with various financial crimes including tax evasion, bank fraud, and money laundering. There were 18 criminal charges including 5 falsifications of income tax returns, 4 failures to file foreign bank account reports, 4 counts of bank fraud, and 5 counts of bank fraud conspiracy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of … onspiracy.

          "Trump asked the Russia government to find Hillary's e-mails.  They continued when his campaign coordinated with Wikileaks on the release of those hacks"

          Both lines from Trump said in jest. Drew big laughs from the crowds. He is a very funny man. great sense of humor.  It was CNN that twisted his words chewed them up and vomited them up for sheep food. This kind of disgusting news reporting is what has only a few that need that sheep food still watching.  The Muller report lead to Zero but was more fodder for the hate machine... For sheep. Was Trump indicted?

          Muller found no collusion with Russia. And he sure did try hard... But zero


          You are all over the place. Did this new evidence shock your system?

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            You are too uneducated to even converse with.  Go read the Senate report and stop relying on sources that only fit your narratives.  You list only half the information and ignore the most relevant.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I do not believe I referred to you as uneducated? Please point out a quote. I have read the new information that initiated  Durham to add his motion. It is very clear. And I can see you comprehend it differently than I.

              "The filing alleges that Sussmann "had assembled and conveyed the allegations to the FBI on behalf of at least two specific clients, including a technology executive (Tech Executive 1) at a U.S.-based internet company (Internet Company 1) and the Clinton campaign."

              Sussmann’s "billing records reflect" that he "repeatedly billed the Clinton Campaign for his work on the Russian Bank-1 allegations," according to Durham’s filing."  "Sussmann’s "billing records reflect" that he "repeatedly billed the Clinton Campaign for his work on the Russian Bank-1 allegations," according to Durham’s filing."

              This is my full understanding of the NEW motion. I consider it damming, and enough to prove Sussman lied to the FBI to protect
              who was paying him?

              I offered many sources all were almost identical. I feel they are all reliable sources, and let me point out all had the same information that would include CNN and MSN , as well as CBS.  AS I have also pointed out in my first comment where I left a source article, CNN had not as of yet covered the news. I have read their article and have no problem with using them as a source in regard to Durham's new motion.

              Do you feel it is an attribute to call someone unintelligent just because they don't agree with you?  Your character is showing.  As a rule, you revert to personal insults when your opinion is not respected by others.

              1. Valeant profile image78
                Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                'Do you feel it is an attribute to call someone unintelligent just because they don't agree with you?  Your character is showing.  As a rule, you revert to personal insults when your opinion is not respected by others.'

                This isn't about agreement, this is about your complete ignorance of the vital information pertaining to Manafort that was in the Senate's report that was put out after Mueller.  That you only refer to the Mueller Report and not the Senate material is where I see ignorance.

                This is a trend with you.  You lean only on half truths to try and make a false case.  Then call other people's information mistruth and misinformation when you speak from a place of ignorance and omission, even when given that information multiple times in these forums.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I see understand your view. I offered you a list of what Manaford was charged with. and your statement is just not factual.

                  "And they culminated with Trump's campaign chairman coordinating with members of Russian Intelligence to target those releases and propaganda in certain areas of the country." This is misinformation.

                  Perhaps you can offer proof of this statement. Was this proven with evidence or conjecture?

                  I don't like opinions formed on the basis of incomplete information.

                  It would seem you do accept half-truths.  I also note you did not quote me calling you unintelligent.  That is because I didn't.

                  I am afraid you need to back up "And they culminated with Trump's campaign chairman coordinating with members of Russian Intelligence to target those releases and propaganda in certain areas of the country."

                  1. Valeant profile image78
                    Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Did Manafort pass internal polling data to members of Russian Intelligence?
                    Absolutely.  Read the bipartisan Senate report.

                    Internal polling data is used to target campaign messaging.  This is not rocket science to understand how campaign polling data is used.  Or maybe it is to you.

                    And going back to Durham, this is your latest salvo of Fox News monkey poop that you're flinging all over this site. 

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vLFRWd2VQY

                    And I called you uneducated.  As in, you have not studied the topic enough to understand what you are leaving out.  Like a crucial Senate Report that states exactly how Manafort coordinated with members of Russian Intelligence.

            2. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              And yet, here you are . . . conversing. Insultingly so, but still conversing.

              GA

              1. Valeant profile image78
                Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you, Captain Obvious.

                But expanding on the point I made earlier...there really wasn't any change to the original indictment of Sussman.  Just Durham mischaracterizing what happened in a second meeting between Sussman and the FBI.

                https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/2 … th-penalty

                The only goal for Durham's filing seems to be to trigger right wing anger by people unable to understand what was filed.  And in that, he succeeded.

      2. Credence2 profile image81
        Credence2posted 3 years ago

        Trump's accounting firm has "quietly" dropped him like a hot potato because his financial records were total bunk.

        The more I look, the more it appears that all the outrages have been interconnected

        The big lie

        The Capitol mob

        The attempt to nullify the "people's voice" by certain members of congress and the President of the United States in direct and clear violation of Constitutional mandates, with an attempt to strongarm the Vice President to be an accessory.

        These are not isolated incidents, but coordinated plans by one evil man with a set of henchmen that he would have quickly disposed of if they become a liability or otherwise cease to be useful.

      3. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        I highly doubt Wilderness' news sources also reported that the indictment does not meet usual DOJ standards for indictments and is expected to be tossed out.  Not surprising.

        https://www.lawfareblog.com/special-cou … l-sussmann

        'Even taken on its own terms, the document is one of the very weakest federal criminal indictments I have ever seen in more than 25 years covering federal investigations and prosecutions. It depends in its entirety on the testimony of a single witness who is on the record, under oath, saying something rather different from what the indictment alleges.'

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Do you feel FBI witnesses, will make weak witnesses? Do you feel, banking records will be weak evidence?  Do you think many involved won't collapse on one another? Do you think such a high-profile case will not end up in punishment of Sussman? Do you think Sussman will make himself a deal?

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Witnesses?

            I guess you suck at reading.  It's one witness that contradicted what Durham alleges in other testimony under oath.

          2. My Esoteric profile image87
            My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            "Do you feel FBI witnesses, will make weak witnesses? " - DECEPTION. We are referring to Baker who has already impeached himself. YOU are falsely saying we are referring to ALL FBI witnesses. Why do you try to deceive like that?

            What has banking records have to do with it.  Is Sussmann accused of bank fraud?  No, he is accused of lying about NOT being associated with Clinton and her group.

            No, since others much smarter than I am say that Durham has a very weak case, I'll take their word for it.  Based on what I know at the moment, I would take this to a jury trial with high hopes of winning.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I refer to Baker and other agents that have been questioned or will be questioned. I feel any and all FBI agents will be honest.
              THE INDITMENT
              "4. During the meeting, SUSSMANN lied about the capacity m which he was
              providing the allegations to the FBI. Specifically, SUSSMANN stated falsely that he was not
              doing his work on the aforementioned allegations "for any client," which led the FBI General
              Counsel to understand that SUSSMANN was acting as a good citizen merely passing along
              information, not as a paid advocate or political operative. In fact, and as alleged in further detail
              below, this statement was intentionally false and misleading because, in assembling and conveying
              these allegations, SUSSMANN acted on behalf of specific clients, namely, (i) a U.S. technology
              industry executive ("Tech Executive-I") at a U.S. Internet company ("Internet Company-I"), and
              (ii) the Hillary Clinton Presidential Campaign (the "Clinton Campaign"). "
              https://www.justice.gov/sco/press-relea … 1/download
              Bank records show who paid him ---
              The DNC and the Clinton Campaign.

              I will put my money on Durham... Not CNN's flunkies.

              Sussman is toast, and so are those that he most likely will rat on. I am so pleased to see justice take its the proper course.

              1. My Esoteric profile image87
                My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                " I feel any and all FBI agents will be honest." - LOL How about that FBI agent who pled guilty to altering an email since you set yourself up for failure by doing a Wilderness and writing "any and all"?  How about Comey or his deputy?  Do they fit has honest FBI agents in your opinion? (they do in mine, by the way)

                All your copy and paste did was prove our point, while lying to the FBI (if that is what he really did) is a big deal, it is not the be all and end all of political crimes as you make it out to be.  It is NOT the crime of the century, lol.

                Here is Durham's case according to Sussmann's lawyer:

                [i]“The Special Counsel has brought a false statement charge on the basis of a purported oral statement made over five years ago for which there is only a single witness, Mr. Baker; for which there is no recording; and for which there are no contemporaneous notes by anyone who was actually in the meeting," his lawyers said.


                This is new:

                Lawyers for Democratic lawyer Michael Sussmann asked a federal court to dismiss the false statements charge against their client, arguing Sussmann did not lie to the FBI when passing along Trump-Russia collusion claims and, even if he did, the lie was "immaterial."

                "Mr. Sussmann did not make any false statement to the FBI," Sussmann's defense team claimed. "But in any event, the false statement alleged in the indictment is immaterial as a matter of law. Furthermore, allowing this case to go forward would risk criminalizing ordinary conduct, raise First Amendment concerns, dissuade honest citizens from coming forward with tips, and chill the advocacy of lawyers who interact with the government."

                Then there is this - s part of its effort to push for an early May 2022 trial date instead of the late July 2022 trial date preferred by prosecutors, Sussmann’s team claimed on Monday that last week, Durham’s team handed over documents about Baker’s statements about the 2016 meeting that it said “directly contradict the Special Counsel’s allegation that Mr. Sussmann affirmatively told Mr. Baker that he was not meeting with him on behalf of any clients.” The team pointed to excerpts of interviews Baker gave to DOJ inspector general Michael Horowitz’s investigators in 2019 and to Durham’s team in 2020.

              2. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this
                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it very appropriate that the Trump children be deposed due to their intricate connection with Trump's businesses. I also feel Trump himself should cooperate.  At this point, it appears they will be forced to cooperate. I don't like corporate crime any more than  Sussman's lying to the FBI.

                  I think in the end if wrongdoing suitable punishment should be
                  rendered. We certainly have many irons in the fire in regards to investigations. Makes me sad to see what kind of corruption prevails.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image87
                    My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    I wonder if they will attempt to break Eric's record of pleading the 5th (which Trump has said he thinks is an admission of guilt) more than 500 times.

                    As to Sussman. Durham must actually prove Sussman said the words to Baker that Durham 'claims' he said.  That will be hard if in truth there were no notes or recordings made.  It is a He said, He said situation and as I understand it, Baker isn't going to testify that he is "certain" that was what Sussman said.  In fact, it looks like Baker told PBS (or somebody) a somewhat different story than what Durham alleges.  (Durham later said, upon hearing that, that his witness may not have remembered correctly, too many years had passed, lol.  The bank records you bring up are not relevant if they can't establish what was said in the first place.

                    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Very common to plead the 5th. It keeps one from saying something that can be misconstrued in a deposition. Most attorneys make it very simple and tell clients to plead the 5th. Especially with all the disingenuous media, we have today, that make it a point to report statements out of context to supply sheep nourishment.

                      Your conjecture on Sussman and Baker in my view is your own attempt to misconstrue words. Baker will testify in the Sussman trial. I will not speculate on what he will say under oath. I will say I feel he will be very cautious and not put himself in Sussman's chair. So, I think he will be truthful.

                      I have not seen any actual statements from Baker to indicate -- as you have shared  "  In fact, it looks like Baker told PBS (or somebody) a somewhat different story than what Durham alleges".

                      I have not seen any statement from James Baker on this matter. Hopefully, you can back your ' it looks like the statement"... Otherwise I will assume it is innuendo, speculation on some media outlet.

                      Baker is a pro, and I very much doubt he will lie to save anyone ass. Now that is my view.

                      In my view --- say Sussman will go down and take others with him.

                      1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                        peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Sharlee:   This is the very latest  from The  Point, by Chris Cilliza

                        Right-wing media outlets and Republican politicians, including Trump, are citing Durham’s court filing to accuse Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign of spying on Trump because of the use of the data.

                        But Durham’s court filing doesn’t allege that the pro-Clinton researchers’ use of internet data meant that there was any eavesdropping on content of communications.

                        Durham has used the Sussmann case to more broadly draw attention to the role of unsavory political opposition research in the 2016 election.
                        Sussmann is charged with making a false statement to the FBI about his representation of the Democrats, when he shared data that pro-Clinton researchers believed linked Trump Organization servers to a Russian bank in 2016.

                        The five-year statute of limitations appears to have passed for Durham to accuse Sussmann of any wrongdoing related to his meeting with the CIA. Passing along information from researchers to intelligence officials for further investigation is not uncommon and isn’t necessarily a crime.

                        The new details were included in a more mundane request to have Sussmann agree to waive any conflict-of-interest issues that could arise because his lawyers have represented others connected to the investigation in the past.

                        Sussmann is set to go to trial in a few months, and the case is largely expected to be based on the testimony of former FBI General Counsel James Baker, who has made shaky statements in testimony over the past few years about his memory of his interactions with Sussmann.

                        This story has been updated with additional details and reaction.

                      2. My Esoteric profile image87
                        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Apparently you didn't understand what I wrote.  What you were supposed to understand is that your man, TRUMP, has said more than once he thinks pleading the 5th is an admission of guilt.  That is your hero who thinks that, not me.

                        I couldn't find a statement either, so I rely on Sussman's attorney's report.

                        The indictment against Sussmann centers on a September 2016 meeting between him and Baker in which Sussmann pushed debunked allegations of a secret backchannel between Russia’s Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization. Durham contends that while Sussmann told Baker he was not working for any particular client, Sussmann was secretly doing the bidding of Hillary Clinton’s campaign and billing his services to her, as well as working on behalf of technology executive Rodney Joffe.[i]

                        To that -

                        [i]Sussmann denies misleading the FBI and pleaded not guilty, and his lawyers argued on Monday that testimony newly handed over from Baker to Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz in 2019 and to Durham in 2020 contradicts the indictment.


                        More to the point

                        “It was only last week — nearly two and a half months after Mr. Sussmann’s indictment, and in the face of persistent demands by Mr. Sussmann’s counsel — that the Special Counsel for the first time disclosed some (but not all) of Mr. Baker’s statements about the September 19, 2016 meeting, ...  “And a number of those statements directly contradict the Special Counsel’s allegation that Mr. Sussmann affirmatively told Mr. Baker that he was not meeting with him on behalf of any clients.”

                        Durham specifically claims that Sussmann “did willfully and knowingly make a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement or representation” to the FBI when he stated to Baker “that he was not acting on behalf of any client”...

                        Yet Sussmann's counsel points out that in the testimony handed over to him Baker says “Baker testified that Mr. Sussmann had expressly said he was meeting with him on behalf of his clients” when meeting with Horowitz’s investigators.

                        Now tell me why again you think Durham has a strong case?

      4. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years ago

        President Biden TRIED to save lives my making vaccines and testing mandatory in larger businesses, but Conservatives decided it was better for people (mostly Trump Republicans) to die from the virus by either shooting the mandates down in court or not getting vaccinate.  b]

        Now we are finding out that the latest Omicron variant, Ba-2, is MUCH more transmissible than Omicron and may be as deadly as Delta.

        https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/health/b … index.html

        The 7-day moving average is down to around 145,000 new cases a day and Trump Republican deaths are running around 2,100 a day.  The highest case count topped out at about 821,000 new cases a day and 2,600 deaths a day.

        If the new variant takes hold like the Omicron variant did, then there are enough unvaccinated Trump Republicans out there to push new cases to over a million a day (fortunately that won't last that long because there are only about 60 million idiots out there) and deaths back up to 3,500 a day - just in time for the midterms.

      5. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        Every time someone on the right brings up inflation, we should just post the link to this video:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMIYrrqAx4U

        Remind us again what elected members of the right are doing to help alleviate the problem.  Nothing.  That's what.  Their only goal seems to be standing in the way of solutions to the issue and then to complain about how nothing is being solved.  If you need to blame someone, look in the mirror.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Will they even see a reflection since REAL Republicans have gone missing.

      6. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        My take on this is that all this would not have happened if Donald Trump had been president. I have always maintained that Biden is a poor diplomat with no priorities and he's shifting focus from the Pacific to Europe was the blunder of all time.

        1. peoplepower73 profile image85
          peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Yep, Trump was great friends with Putin and did him a favor by taking us out of NATO.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          His poor history in Washington preceded him. Always rode coattails followed like a puppy behind anyone he thought would pull him along.

      7. Credence2 profile image81
        Credence2posted 3 years ago

        I would want folks to tell me how this dunce of a man, Donald J. Trump, would have done things better. What are his credentials for being the great negotiator or diplomat? I did not see any indication of that while he was President.

        The way he was sucking up to Putin and dissing NATO, he may have well agreed to have the US attack Ukraine in partnership with Russia.....

        1. IslandBites profile image66
          IslandBitesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Almost?

          "I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine, of Ukraine, Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump said in an interview on "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show."

          The ex-President added: "So Putin is now saying, 'It's independent,' a large section of Ukraine. I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That's the strongest peace force," Trump said. "We could use that on our southern border. That's the strongest peace force I've ever seen. ... Here's a guy who's very savvy. ... I know him very well. Very, very well."

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, Trump is a 5th columnist to the extreme, He, Basically is a tyrant admiring the handiwork of other tyrants around the world. A person best described as a"useful idiot".

            Who would have the nerve to make some sort of hero out of him?

            There is no telling how far Putin will go, or even if the threat of a larger war or  thermonuclear exchange will deter him.

            Trump, in his neverending stupidly and shallow thinking compares what is going on in Europe right now with immigration issues at our Southern Border.

            We may very well be at 'the brink', with no way back this time.

          2. GA Anderson profile image83
            GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Oh lordy, lordy, Islandmom. you have drug me into a Trump discussion. I had a thought about this, and since it is you I held on to it.

            You tied your response to Cred's "dunce" comment, so I will make a leap and assume, (dangerous, I know), it is intended as a slam against Pres. Trump.

            Would your quote be such a slam if what it said was true?

            As I watch the media's military `experts' explain what is happening, (or being prepped to happen), They are essentially saying the same thing. Of course, they aren't using words like "brilliant" and "genius" because they are too flattering, but they are using words like smart and effective and militarily sound.

            They are saying the same things in just more palatable terms. Is Trump's quote wrong? Or is it just a case of him saying what no one else is honest enough to say?

            Relative to a judgment of probable success and critique of methods I too would say Putin is doing this thing in a very very smart way. I don't hear our military experts saying any differently.

            GA

            1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
              Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Putin is a ruthless ex-KGB spy who normalised assassination as a modern-day tool of state policy.
              He is a criminal, incompetent president and enemy of his own people.
              Russia under Putin’s grim leadership has grown notorious for cronyism and corruption on a vast scale, repression of domestic opponents and free speech, and military aggression and disruption abroad.
              He deserves not a bit of the right-wing praise being lavished upon him. Although we shouldn’t be surprised. After all, Trump has been praising Putin and making excuses for his murderous ways for many years.

              In an interview with MSNBC's Joe Scarborough Mr. Trump stated “Well, I think that our country does plenty of killing, too, Joe. I’ve always felt fine about Putin. He’s a strong leader. He’s a powerful leader.”

              In 2017, when Trump’s friend and TV host Bill O’Reilly said to Trump of Putin, “But he’s a killer.”

              Trump said, “There are a lot of killers. You think our country’s so innocent?”

              I'm in agreement with  deceased senator John McCain's statement. McCain said that “no prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant.”.

              He added, “The damage inflicted by President Trump’s naiveté, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. … “President Trump proved not only unable, but unwilling to stand up to Putin (and) made a conscious choice to defend a tyrant against the fair questions of a free press, and to grant Putin an uncontested platform to spew propaganda and lies to the world.”

              He  called him a thug who seeks to undermine American national security interests at every turn. I agree. I'm appalled by the statements of praise and adulation of Putin coming from The Trump section of the right wing. It feels very unamerican, very undemocratic.

              As I finish up writing this the Russians have just launched cyber attacks on Ukrainian government sites knocking them out.
              Should I marvel at the Russian technical skill? Or be appalled that We are on the precipice of The worst European conflict since world war II?

              1. GA Anderson profile image83
                GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                It seems that because Putin is a bad man, (I agree he is a murdering tyrant),  the consensus is that he is an incompetent idiot. The facts on the ground show him far from being incompetent or an idiot.

                I would start with a point I think is a `fact': Neither the U.S. nor its NATO allies are willing to directly confront Russia's military forces in Ukraine because it would be the start of WW III. I am certain this "fact" was a consideration in Putin's plans.

                Then I look at another `fact;: I am certain that even the most severe sanctions were anticipated in his planning. I am already hearing news of the nearly $1 trillion, (in dollar value), war chest of cash that Putin has accumulated as part of his preparation for this take-over of Ukraine. Combine that with recent China/Russia news bits and I think Putin has the sanction thing covered.

                And one last `fact': There is nothing we can do about this invasion, except to scream bad man and try to punish him by taking away his allowance.

                So, if our military planned a similar invasion with similar external circumstances, but called it a peacekeeping mission Americans would probably be praising `our guys' for a brilliant military plan.

                This seems like the reality that if your, (generic "your" of course), mother is ugly or your uncle is crazy it's okay for you to say so but not for anyone else to say it.

                Contrary to popular sentiment I think Putin's plans for Ukraine are extremely well thought out and masterfully, (oops, too complimentary?), implemented. And none of that thought carries any intended inferences that praise Putin as a person or leader.

                As for your quoted Trump criticisms, are they untrue, or just unAmerican to say? And, relative to whether you should marvel at his skills I would say hell no, you, (we, everyone), should have expected them.

                I think the characterizations of stupid and incompetent are a boomerang toss—they come back to the claimants.

                GA

                1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                  Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  This praise is being played in Russia. At the worst, It gives the appearance of support for Putin to those in his country. At the least it sends mixed messages and undermines our current administrations response. Ultimately Trump and his followers are simply choosing to make support for Ukraine just another partisan issue. Again to the detriment of our own country.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                    Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Our current administration has had very little response. They have undermined themselves. Anyone can see Russia has the upper hand, and actually will from here out.

                    This entire mess has nothing to do with Trump...
                    He is no longer president.  The fact is Russia is a very powerful country, and there is little that can be done short of WAR to stop them. Time to face that fact. Seems ridiculous to even be discussing this aggression by Putin.  All the words in the world from Biden will do nothing to stop Putin. His words make us look ridiculous.  His threats have no teeth.

                    All the huffing and indignation puffing makes our nation look downright ridiculous. In my view, In the end, Putin will take Ukraine, and the US will appear the weakest we have ever appeared. 

                    So, is he a genius, is his plan genius?  It looks to me as of now like he is a good strategist, and a strong leader.  Not pleasant to digest, but that's my take.

                    1. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      There is little response short of a major war that is possible for Biden at this point. Biden has and will exact all the sanctions possible within this situation against Russia and Putin.

                      Putin's actions in the Ukraine might well be a mere dress rehearsal for larger objectives. Do you not think that the former Soviet Republics that are now NATO members are not nervous about another such "militarily genius" sort of incursion on their territories? Will Poland be the "last straw" as it was some 85 years ago?

                      America's political right is not any better, admiring autocratic leaders and policies that they would more than happy to see implemented here. All the bread crumbs meet at a single point.

                      Putin is a killer, autocrat and a tyrant, there is nothing to admire about that just because Trump says so.

                      So, if Russia is to have the "upper hand" from here on out, you had better prepare your bomb shelter. You condemn America and the West to fold up like a lawn chair in the face of aggression.

                      Putin sends us a Trojan Horse with Trump inside. The Right wants to dispense with democracy in favor of an oligarchal, theocratic, racist based tyranny. That will be the beginning of the end for the American experiment in self government.

                      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree we Biden has little he can do, as I have shared here in different comments. In my view, we have no cards to play, other than war. I am against starting a war over Ukraine. And I am very sure as you put it this is a mere dress rehearsal for larger objectives. I will predict that all day and Nato should be nervous they have been shown to actually have little to no power to stop Putin.

                        If Putin in the future pushes into NATO countries the US will have the decision war with Russia or back away. This scenario is very much possible in the future.

                        "Putin is killer, autocrat, and a tyrant, there is nothing to admire about that just because Trump says so."

                        You took my statement out of context. Note in my comment  I refer to a specific administration. I feel Russia will have an upper hand with this President. That is just my view. I speak of here and now. I can say this crisis or none like it developed under Trump. Will China be next? I feel it will... I feel Biden is a weak president and these tyrants see the opportunity to strike, why wouldn't they?  Is that not a realistic possibility in your view?  We as a nation are floundering in my view under Biden. I have said this before, we need to see two strong NEW candidates in our next election. otherwise, I feel we are at the beginning of the end.

                        Our current administration has had very little response. They have undermined themselves. Anyone can see Russia has the upper hand, and actually will from here out."

                        I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of what Putin is, and what he is capable of doing. It would appear Trump was referring to Putin's plan to take Ukraine and felt it was a good one. And no I don't agree with his demeanor in regards to this crisis.  However, GA offered a good point, many military pundits are saying the same in a more palatable way.

                        I am a realist, and at this juncture (keywords at this juncture) I don't think we have any cards to play. You have read too much into my comment. I am referring to this crisis. I am very aware we are a powerful nation with nuclear weapons, but so is Russia... I realize we have wonderful cyber abilities, so does Russia.

                        At this point, Trump is not the president, and he may never be the president again.  I guess that is up to the American people.

                    2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                      Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Well I certainly respect the right to your position. You don't believe that the current sanctions were a good move? And that impending sanctions may have an effect? Should we have just for gone sanctions all together? President Biden did say that these initial sanctions were only the first round.  I feel as if going after the oligarchs was the smartest move.
                      I feel the President Biden is doing all that he can do based on the fact that Ukraine is not a member of NATO.  Let's say that they were though, would you be supporting our troops going into defend Ukraine at this point?. It looks extremely likely that this will happen in the near future as Putin inches  toward Our NATO allies. Laying All politics aside I am very very disheartened to see grandmothers and grandfathers in Ukraine taking up arms ready to fight when we spent so much time and money in Afghanistan for those who drop their arms and ran.
                      You stated "Putin will take Ukraine, and the US will appear the weakest we have ever appeared." Does that mean that you would have supported a military intervention by the US? I'm just a little confused by this statement.  NATO is stronger than ever and I believe that's positive. Short of that, What do you think Biden could have done to deter Putin?
                      I don't think the "huffing and puffing" makes our nation look ridiculous.  I think the fact that Many in our nation believe outright lies and vehemently defend the liars.  If anything, Putin has capitalized on the chaos created by Mr Trump's continual quest to divide with his lies.
                      You are right, Putin may very well take Ukraine  but that puts him right up to NATO borders. Like I said previously about appeasement.. keep feeding that crocodile, maybe you'll be the last one killed.
                      Putin isn't a genius. I don't find anything genius or militarily strategic about rolling into a country like Ukraine When you are a power such as Russia, Do you really? It seems like an easy task.  He's a bully because circumstances allow him to be so. He's  an unhinged political zealot. Listen to his most recent speeches translated. He is angry and incoherent rambling about Lenin.
                      And please do not take this post as a very personally directed towards you. Everything that you said in your post just lead to me think about all these additional factors.

                      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        "Does that mean that you would have supported a military intervention by the US?"

                        No, I am totally against a war in Ukraine. I am for aiding them with weapons, and aid.

                        I feel the current sanctions are weak and have zero bite. In regards to the "oligarchs ", they stand to become more wealthy with Russia taking Ukraine. Much richer...

                        And you ask what could have Biden done to Putin? As I said little to nothing... We have very little we can actually do but the weak sanctions he has put on Russia. Do you feel Russia did not expect these very sanctions? "NATO is stronger than ever and I believe that's positive"

                        Why do you feel NATO is strong at this point?  In my view, they have never been shown in such weak light. I guess we will need to agree to disagree on this.  It is certainly possible at some point Putin could challenge NATO countries, this would be a very disastrous crisis.   

                        Faye, all you have said is your view, I respect your view, and take no offense at you sharing it.

                  2. GA Anderson profile image83
                    GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Although arguable, I think your first thought is fair, but your closing is the part that is partisan baloney.

                    My issue of the moment is that I don't see the denial of truths, (the planning and military stuff), as a good position to have.

                    I thought of a cute analogy that I think illustrates the basics of this discussion:

                    In the animal world, when it comes to mating and territorial rights, in some spiecie males, (alpha, leader, whatever), fight by facing off and seeing who could posture and bellow or roar the loudest. The loudest won.

                    Then there are the spiecie males that actually fight to the death to win those rights. In other words, a battle of screamers or fighters.

                    What kind of battle is this Ukraine issue and which male is the U.S.?

                    GA

                    1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                      peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Putin wants the Nord Stream II pipeline turned on, so he can sell energy to European countries. But in light of what he is doing in the Ukraine, Germany stopped the certification process of the pipeline. 

                      In my naïve view, most of the countries he wants to sell energy to are members of NATO.  All he has to do is become a member of NATO and make nice to those countries and they will turn the pipeline on for him. Ultimately, he will end up selling gas to his enemies in NATO. anyway.

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/im … li=BBnb7Kz

                      1. GA Anderson profile image83
                        GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I think Putin was prepared for the stopping of the Nordstream II construction. I am sure that he wants it completed, but I have heard `expert' commentators saying that the bulk of pipeline transfers are in pipelines going through Ukraine.

                        The thought of Russia becoming a NATO member doesn't seem right. Putin could get those same benefits just by being a non-aggressor.

                        Also, when you speak of other nations "turning on" the pipelines as a power position then I think you have it backward. Putin has the power; he has the gas and he already has the pipelines. The economic crush will be as hard on the allies even if it is harder on Russia in this aspect.

                        Your link's point makes sense, except that I think Putin would have known and planned for the probable economic disruption. So we will have to see who yells `Uncle' first.

                        GA

                      2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        He has three other pipelines that he sells from. The pipeline you speak of most likely is no concern to Putin. He is still selling oil to Europe as I write this comment, as well as to the US. Do you know how rich Ukraine will make Russia?   They are already selling oil to NATO countries. 

                        "Which countries get oil from Russia?
                        There are four main countries that purchase the majority of Russia's crude oil: The Netherlands, Germany, Poland, and Belarus. In 2017, these four countries accounted for 70% seventy percent of the total export volumes. Other countries who have some of the largest exports in 2020 included Italy, Finland, and Slovakia.5 days ago"

                        Perhaps this would have been a good sanction all stop purchasing oil from Russia... But that is impossible is it not because these countries need that oil to survive at this point.

                  3. Ken Burgess profile image71
                    Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Our current administrations response needs to be undermined.

                    Who is going to suffer because of the "Sanctions" ... average Americans.  Who will pay higher costs for gas, energy, food.

                    As well average Russians, Ukrainians etc.

                    Do you know who won't suffer?

                    Biden, Putin, those pushing for sanctions, or worse, war, gas and food prices will have no impact on them.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image85
                Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                I don't think anyone that post here is not aware of Putin's history,  his character. It appeared to me GA made a good point in regard to Trump's latest statements in regard to Putin's plan to take Ukraine. was very straightforward, he shared his view in his words. He is known for this style of communication.

                As GA said  -- "As I watch the media's military `experts' explain what is happening, (or being prepped to happen), They are essentially saying the same thing. Of course, they aren't using words like "brilliant" and "genius" because they are too flattering, but they are using words like smart and effective and militarily sound.

                They are saying the same things in just more palatable terms. Is Trump's quote wrong? Or is it just a case of him saying what no one else is honest enough to say?"

                The context of Trump's statement matched that of our military experts.

              3. Ken Burgess profile image71
                Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                The 542 drone strikes that Obama authorized killed an estimated 3,797 people, including 324 civilians.



                Biden was formally listed in a criminal case in July by Ukraine's government for the crime of firing Ukraine's former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. Former Vice President Joe Biden is now a criminal suspect in Ukraine in a case involving his son Hunter and Burisma Holdings, a major Ukrainian natural gas producer.

                A New York Times article confirms revelations in Peter Schweizer's bestselling book Secret Empires regarding the $1.5 billion deal Hunter Biden's private equity firm secured from the state-owned Bank of China while his father was Vice President.



                President Joe Biden "doesn't know what he's doing with foreign policy" and he's "surrounded by incredibly incompetent advisors,

                The blooper — one of several Biden made amid the series of meetings with world leaders prompted laughter at his expense at the start of a roundtable discussion in Cornwall, England.

                Yes: 99% (4356 Votes) No: 1% (42 Votes) "This man needs a retirement home and a warm bowl of soup, not access to the nuclear codes," she said. "When he's not making a fool of himself misreading auto-cues"

                1. Valeant profile image78
                  Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  'Biden was formally listed in a criminal case in July by Ukraine's government for the crime of firing Ukraine's former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. Former Vice President Joe Biden is now a criminal suspect in Ukraine in a case involving his son Hunter and Burisma Holdings, a major Ukrainian natural gas producer.'

                  Do you ever get tired of not fact checking the misinformation you are being fed?

                  https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … -criminal/

            2. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Cmon, GA, you can't be serious.

              I can say to have admired Napoleon or even Hitler's actions from military point of view, but what about ethical or political aspects?

              Since when does the NATO alliance merely appease aggression from one large nation to a smaller, weaker one because it can be seen as the most expedient from a perpetrators point of view?

              Yes, my comment was a slam against FORMER President Donald Trump. He should be keeping his mouth shut and not undermine American foreign policy with his inane utterances.

              I don't understand why, when I have heard from many sources that Putin has a desire to recreate the "Soviet Union", everyone seems so quick to want to accommodate Putin?

              Will he destroy self determination for the Ukrainians? In his lebensraum type dreams, what would be the fate of the now independent former Soviet satellite states that are currently members of NATO? Why not challenge NATO and risk war that he might believe that he could win?

              I would have resisted the idea of playing too deeply in his backyard, but will he be emboldened to move into yours?

              I don't know how "smart" it is..

              I need to introduce a new molecule into the world of chemistry and physics, "Trump Gas" (noxious oxide) composed of 1 part Trump and 2 parts hot air.

              Like Nitrous oxide, once you get a whiff, formerly reasonable and rational people all of the sudden, go bat-@@@@.

              1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Birds of a feather flock together.  Trump can't accept the fact that he lost an election.  Putin can't accept the fact that he lost a country.  I think they are both narcistic con artists. 

                Trump has conned half of this country into believing that he won an election and Putin has conned Russians into believing that Ukraine belongs to Mother Russia.

                Russia lost a war. Albeit a cold war, but none the less a war. Now he wants the land of the Soviet Union back. 

                Trump lost an election.  Now he wants to be president again and will do and say anything to gain voters, even sell his own country short to those he can con...and they will love him for it. He is so good at it, they won't even know they have been conned..

              2. GA Anderson profile image83
                GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                It sure looks like your comment falls into that "boomerang" basket I mentioned in another response.

                "Cmon' Cred, you can't be serious . . . you agreed with what I have been saying in your opening lead, (the proper place for the main thought of what follows). You used the word "admire." Even I didn't go that far.

                When you finished that lead-in with your `what about' question you went completely off track—relative to my comments.

                I was never talking about ethical or moral evaluations or judgments. That introduction is on you and others that jump on any rational appraisal of the political and military actions, (they are one thing in Putin), as unAmerican conservative, (aka Right-winger), appeasement. But, if y'al address the topic as presented, (again, relative to what I said), your arguments sound more like indignation that anyone would dare say anything good about anything associated with anyone bad than rational pertinent points. When I "praise," (I think I was just talking about the efficiency and efficacy), of the plan and actions. I am not praising the character or motive of the man that gave the orders.

                I am repeatedly hearing two points from the various media military experts(?)—CNN and Fox are using their `election-style' screen displays, with almost hourly updates from their military commentators. You will have to check that out yourself because you won't believe it if I tell you. Their bottom line is, (my perception), praise for the military and political actions, (but none used the word "admire" ;-o) ), and resignation that there isn't anything we can do about it, except for the sanctions.

                Now, your NATO point. Unless one believes Putin will invade a current NATO nation, it is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I would not be surprised, (sigh, that does not mean I condone or support it),  if he took over Ukraine, he can do it with limited military and political expense. (what are we going to do about it, take away some credit cards?), but I do not believe he will ever invade a NATO nation knowing it would immediately involve military conflict with all of the NATO nations. But, even that point is beside the point of the military and political operations.

                That's enough for now, the rest of your comment is also along the ethical and moral lines, so I think I got it covered above.

                One last thing, relative to that new molecule you want to add. Consider your own response here. With your first statement you agreed with what I said. Then, you gave much greater effort to the rest of your comment's criticisms, condemnations, and rationalizations directed at Trump, et al, of things that weren't even part of the exchange until you introduced them. Maybe that gas might have other parts and other effects.

                GA

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess i tend to think that to praise and to admire would have a synomous meaning.

                  Someone in Trump's position having the ear of so many, needs to think about the political and ethical ramifications of what he says. It's more than about realpolitik, it is about not being the entrails of a Trojan horse against your own country.

                  In the times that we find ourselves in, I would expect that from a prudent person. But again, Trump and prudence are antonyms. My angst is directed at Trump because he was the one who made the comments.

                  I don't appease nor approve of tyrants and I don't expect those that are our leaders to do otherwise.

                  The efficiency and efficacy of Putin's approach could bring much of the continent to the brink. He could  use conventional weapons to carry out aggression, one step at a time, forcing NATO to raise the ante.

                  Why shouldn't Putin want to invade a NATO nation once all the deterrent has been exhausted? The fear of war is what has always allow the tyrant to push things just that much further. We have seen it before. Yet, we have been given a virtual "Mein Kampf" from Putin as to his objectives in the region and we continue to ignore it.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image83
                    GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    What deterrents, (to a NATO nation invasion), will be exhausted?

                    All of my thoughts on this matter rely on my belief that most certainly the U.S. and the U.K., and most likely all other members, will honor their treaty commitments of assistance to the invaded member. And thus, any invasion would trigger superpower military conflict.

                    I don't think Putin will force this conflict. Ukraine, (as callous as it sounds), is a `freebie' relative to any NATO kickback. As long as he sticks to Ukraine NATO, is toothless.

                    Folks portray Putin/Russia as a bully, (perhaps rightly so), as a rationalization that he will someday invade a NATO nation. To that, I would point to who bullies attack? It is always the weaker. Bullies don't mess with the stronger. So if Putin is a bully they are wrong and if he isn't, (and does attack the stronger), then they are still wrong in their rationalizations.

                    When you, (generic you), speak of the U.S. ignoring or dismissing or allowing Putin's bullying actions then you should also have an idea of what you expect the U.S. to do about it. What would you, (yes, you(), expect the U.S. to do?

                    On this issue, we are the screamers bud. all we can do is scream out what we are going to do to him. Current appearances are that Putin prepared for our screaming sanctions and they don't mean beans to his plans. He, (and I suspect many Russians), will endure every suffering with national stoicism—and be a stronger nation for it.

                    If you believe Putin will invade a NATO nation, then we are coming from different perspectives that won't find any common ground.

                    GA

                    1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                      peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      This gives the rational of Nord Stream 2 and why it is not only an energy source, but also how Putin and the West use it as political leverage to get what they want.

                      Putin does not want to pay Ukraine 2 Bln per year to transfer gas to Europe via Ukraine. Nord Stream 2 would bypass the Ukraine and route the gas under the Baltic Sea.

                      https://www.vox.com/22881709/nord-strea … tates-cruz

                      1. GA Anderson profile image83
                        GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I understand Nordstream II is important to Putin and that he wants it completed. And I think it will be after a suitable amount of [i]`grieving/punishment time after the dust settles from this issue. Europe needs that energy source too badly to forever discard it.

                        I only meant that I am certain Putin anticipated and planned for this disruption and suffers no loss because of it.

                        GA

                    2. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Then we don't have common ground, although I hope your viewpoint prevails if only for the purpose of world peace.

                      I don't trust Putin. There is nothing we can do but wait him out or be prepared for total war if he crosses the line. Exhausting deterrent means we have no recourse/viable sanctions that would dissuade him from his military objectives in the region.

                      What we can do for a start is take a United front with our allies and ask responsible leadership within our own nation to not take the role of 5th columnists providing aid and succor to the enemy as a result. I can for ask that.

                      1. GA Anderson profile image83
                        GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        That's a fair position. At least we are in full disagreement. No half-assing around for us.

                        Not only do I not believe Putin will invade a NATO nation, (certainly not because he's a good guy), I don't believe sanctions—relative to a Ukraine-like situation, are worth the breath it takes to order them.

                        It would probably be worth the effort to take a look at the history of our sanction use. Has it been successful, or not? That sounds like something right up your alley.

                        GA

            3. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Trump's statements are so much harder to take --- they hit one right in the middle of the forehead, and really piss one-off that he is so blunt and FREE with his speech. No stick to be had up his ------T

              1. GA Anderson profile image83
                GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Oh hell, a new dimension introduced—sticks up asses. No thanks. ;-)

                GA

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Just my view of Trump's demeanor, and his unfiltered way of communication.  Not saying I agree with his style one way or the other. But, I have become very accustomed to his style, and I don't think anyone is going to get him to change his stripes.  He is very much uninhibited, hence my stick comment.

            4. IslandBites profile image66
              IslandBitesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I don't doubt Putin is a smart man. But you're just being selective in your eagerness to attack those who criticize Trump. This time, again, choosing one aspect of Trump's comment to fit your narrative.

              You later said "So, if our military planned a similar invasion with similar external circumstances, but called it a peacekeeping mission Americans would probably be praising `our guys' for a brilliant military plan."

              Probably true. Many Americans are blind when it comes to patriotism. Only, this time, is not "your military" and is not Americans praising "your guys". It is an ex president, praising "the enemy" in a crucial and dangerous moment. You're also ignoring his history as a Putin ("a murdering tyrant") sympathizer.

              And I dont believe you're so naïve to think that the timing of his comment wasnt a political strategy of Trump and how a sector of the rightwing media is siding with Putin just to "F" Biden.


              But hey, you do you.

              1. GA Anderson profile image83
                GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Damn, I knew I was putting my foot in a Trump-trap. You nailed me . . . almost.

                Once again, a comment that was not intended to be in defense of Trump becomes so only because it pointed to the accuracy of the message, (not the vehicle).

                I think my only selectivity was to jab at folks that turn everything into more proof that Trump is a bad man, regardless of the truth or facts about whatever the latest Trump thing is.

                First, his statement was bad because of the hyperbole: "brilliant" and genius," and then when it was shown to be true—even though in classic Trump style, it was bad because of the timing, the pulpit it was coming from, the Russian propaganda jackpot it gave Putin, the effect it would have on all Trumpers, etc. etc.

                I generally agree with all of that, and you are right I did selectively pick one aspect—whether what he said was true, or not. It seems the general consensus is that they were true. And that, is the only point I spoke to.

                As seen in this thread, any positive statement concerning Putin or Trump, even if true and supported by the "experts," is read as support and defense for the man named. That's baloney.

                Except for the part about being Putin's puppet, I even agree with the rest of your comment.

                GA

                1. IslandBites profile image66
                  IslandBitesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  First, his statement was bad because of the hyperbole: "brilliant" and genius," and then when it was shown to be true—even though in classic Trump style, it was bad because of the timing, the pulpit it was coming from, the Russian propaganda jackpot it gave Putin, the effect it would have on all Trumpers, etc. etc.

                  You are wrong. I posted the comment. So for me... First, it was bad because of the "hyperbole" AND the timing AND the pulpit it was coming from AND the Russian propaganda jackpot it gave Putin AND the effect it would have on all Trumpers, etc. etc. Period. No then. You chose one angle, not me.

                  I think my only selectivity was to jab at folks that turn everything into more proof that Trump is a bad man, regardless of the truth or facts about whatever the latest Trump thing is.

                  Like I said, "everything"?. To fit your narrative.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image83
                    GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Well then, maybe you did nail me. But, in my defense, I did start this exchange with this caveat:
                    "You tied your response to Cred's "dunce" comment, so I will make a leap and assume, (dangerous, I know), it is intended as a slam against Pres. Trump.

                    Would your quote be such a slam if what it said was true?"


                    It appears my "assumption" was wrong. I spoke to a point I only assumed you were making.

                    I hope I don't need stitches.

                    GA

      8. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

        I am sickened by the dangerous rhetoric of Mr. Trump, His sycophants in the Republican party, Fox News and other right-wing media heaping shameless praise on Putin, parroting Russian talking points. All for what? To serve their ideology of "owning the libs?"   Last seen at a Trump rally was a couple wearing a t-shirt probably proclaiming "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat". Really now?

        Putin's goal? To crash American democracy. With the help of Mr. Trump and the movement he's started this may be an eventual reality. Many years ago President Biden warned about this effort in a speech at the Brookings Institution: “President Putin sees such political forces as useful tools to be manipulated, to create cracks in the  body politic." 
        Little did we know that Russia would use our own citizens to reach that goal.

        Ronald Reagan must be turning over in his grave.

      9. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        It's sad when you've got a whole bunch of Americans siding with a murderous dictator over their own government.  In the old days, stuff like that would be called things like treason.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image71
          Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          In the old days that would be called Freedom of Speech.

          In today's society, there are many on "the Left" that want to call an opposing opinion treason.

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            You think siding with the guy attacking an ally of ours is merely freedom of speech.  I'm glad you no longer serve in our military.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image71
              Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Me too.

              But I strongly recommend it to you, as you strongly support this Administration, and you strongly oppose Russia's actions in Ukraine... you should be more than willing.

              1. Valeant profile image78
                Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Will has nothing to do with it.

                And it's not about strongly supporting this administration so much as being able to recognize fabrications, such as the ones given by Putin, for invading another sovereign nation in violation of international law.  It's also called humanity to not want to see innocent people killed when a murderous thug violates those laws and treaties his country agreed to that gave Ukraine its sovereignty.

                And if you go around telling people well past the age of service that they should enlist in our military then, again, very glad you no longer serve if those are your brilliant suggestions for a strong country.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  What do you mean "past the age of service"?

                  If you have the will, you can find your way over to Ukraine and support them, they have declared no men from age 18 to 60 can leave the Ukraine, stands to reason they will take what help they can get, I don't think age has much to do with being willing to fight for what you believe in, unless you don't believe in it enough to risk your life. 

                  Other people's lives perhaps... just not yours, right?

                  Must be nice, never having to put skin in the game, never having to back up any of your beliefs... just push them onto other people. 

                  Hey, maybe you can donate your life savings to the Ukrainian cause, do something of significance to stand against a "murderous thug".

                  The will to act has everything to do with it.

                  1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                    peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Ken:  I checked out your About page.  If you don't mind me asking, what did you do in the Army?

                    1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Enough.
                      Over a dozen years of service, half of which were spent overseas in one country or another.

                      Just my opinion here, but often those who clamor for war, those who name call world leaders, those who like to label others who do not agree with their "warmongering" attitude are those furthest from the fighting with no intention of ever putting themselves in harms way.

                      1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        So very true... And makes me wonder if those that clamor to send troops into harm's way ever lost a loved one or had them come home maimed or lived their lives in limbo with the fright of having that knock on the door... Thank you for your service.

                  2. Valeant profile image78
                    Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Oh, now you want me to try to join Ukraine's military.  The suggestions just keep getting more outlandish. 

                    And what skin do you have in the game currently?  You're sitting there doing the same thing, pushing your beliefs out from the cushy real estate job you currently hold down on the Florida coast.

                    The will to act has many forms.  I believe speaking out about a violation of international law one form.  Calling out right wing propaganda that undermines our nation in a time of war another.  Calling out those siding with another nation over your own a third.

                    And if the danger became great enough or close enough to our country, maybe I will do those things you suggest.  For now, I actually do trust our government to act on our behalf.  I support them.  Not undermine them like so many on the right are currently doing.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          It seems the left uses that word a lot... They hope to threaten free speech with harsh labels such as treason... Seems they would by now have realized, no one is listening.

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I take it by your response that you heard the statement loud and clear.  And yes, I see siding with someone attacking an ally of our country and many think undermining a President in a potential time of war as treasonous.  Just ask the Dixie Chicks when Bush was President.  Of course, with the double standards of the right these days, maybe they only apply that to others.

      10. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

        Putin is preparing to invade Ukraine again for the same reason as in 2014. He wants to destabilize Ukraine, frighten Ukraine. He wants Ukrainian democracy to fail. He wants the Ukrainian economy to collapse. He wants foreign investors to flee. He wants his neighbors in Belarus, Kazakhstan, even Poland and Hungary to doubt whether democracy will ever be viable, in the longer term, in their countries too. Farther abroad, he wants to put so much strain on Western and democratic institutions, especially the European Union and NATO, that they break up. He wants to keep dictators in power wherever he can, in Syria, Venezuela, and Iran. He wants to undermine America, to shrink American influence, to remove the power of the democracy rhetoric that so many people in his part of the world still associate with America. He wants America itself to fail. 

        These are big goals, and they might not be achievable. But Putin’s beloved Soviet Union also had big, unachievable goals. Lenin, Stalin, and their successors wanted to create an international revolution, to subjugate the entire world to the Soviet dictatorship of the proletariat. Ultimately, they failed but they did a lot of damage while trying. Putin will also fail, but he too can do a lot of damage while trying. And not only in Ukraine.
        I think  Putin dreams of discrediting the American democratic system, and he will never have a more reliable ally than Donald Trump and his faction of the Republican party. One of the lessons learned from Mr.  Trump’s election in 2016 and one still difficult for some of us to process  is just how many of our fellow citizens are predisposed to authoritarianism.

      11. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        Losing three planes and the chopper is no big deal in the war where more than 100 planes are operating. I have been in battle as a fighter pilot and I can tell you this is collateral damage .it has to be accepted. Ukraine doesn't stand a chance and basically because Joe Biden gave some false hopes for which Biden will pay the price with the defeat in 24.

      12. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years ago

        In my opinion, Putin isn't the mastermind, genius that some in our own country want to make us believe. 
        He has invaded Ukraine on a pretext of paranoia and lies.  Of late, His rambling, angry and incoherent speeches have revealed his true nature. This is an unbalanced even delusional man.
        The latest, last night had him proclaiming: "To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history" he claimed he is 'de-Nazifying' Ukraine . 
        He also warned warned that any attempt to interfere in the Ukraine conflict would provoke a response 'never seen in history'
        This is a man who needs to be dealt with.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          "President Joe Biden on Saturday warned Russian President Vladimir Putin that the consequences of a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, which U.S. officials have said could be imminent, would be "swift and severe," according to a White House description of the conversation." President  Biden'

          It would seem both have laid down a red line. However, Putin is a very as you said  "unbalanced even delusional man". Would you think Biden should back up his words? It would seem Putin is a man that does not say something lightly...

          Do you feel anyone could win in a nuclear war? Because this is what we would face if we went to war with Russia. They also have a weapon that we do not have, a weapon that defies radar. We do not have this weapon, China has it. Does that give you a hint to whose side they would be on?
          https://www.military.com/equipment/weap … dar.htmlIn my view in this particular crisis, we have no cards to play. And I don't think it wise to just bluster about when we have no hand. to play.

          It would be wonderful if Europe would actually help out with sanctions such as stopping all trade, and oil purchases. But, that will not happen.

          1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
            Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I think NATO is the most unified it's ever been.

            "On February 21 and 22, 2022, the United States, the European Union, the United Kingdom, Australia, and Japan issued and/or announced sanctions targeting Russia and the Russia-backed separatist regions of Ukraine known as the Donetsk People’s Republic (“DNR”) and the Luhansk People’s Republic (“LNR”).  The United States took the first step by issuing broad jurisdiction-based sanctions on the two regions, similar to the existing sanctions on the Crimea region of Ukraine, and followed up with additional sanctions targeting Russia’s financial system.  NATO allies also announced sanctions—including targeted designations by the United Kingdom and a sanctions package by the European Union—and non-NATO allies promised tough sanctions in close coordination."  I'm glad to see the unified response.  Germany canceling Nordstream was quite a step seeing they were waffling on it weeks before.

            But how do we deal with a tyrannical, unhinged  dictator who is on the march to destroy democracy wherever he can without causing suffering to our own people, to our own economy?  That is of course what would happen globally if NATO decided to hit Russia's energy sector with sanctions. This conflict is already undeniably going to make our countries inflation worse.

            I believe that President Biden's address this afternoon will announce another round of sanctions. 

            European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said this morning that the European Union will place “massive and targeted” sanctions on Russia over its aggression in Ukraine, aiming at its financial sector, freezing Russia assets.

            Just how far is China willing to go to help Russia? Former NSA advisor Stephen Hadley believes that if Russia were to invade Ukraine, “China will not formally endorse it” because it recognizes the Ukrainian government and largely opposes foreign interventions.  As, of this morning the invasion is underway so I suppose we can look for a Chinese response.

            In terms of nuclear war, Putin practically threatened the West in his speech this morning. So yes, what now?

            I'm very saddened by the pictures coming in from Ukraine already. You are correct, Not sure what cards we have to play but then again I'm not a military strategist. I do want to see our country offer more support to Ukraine in terms of military equipment.

        2. gmwilliams profile image84
          gmwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          +1000000000

        3. Ken Burgess profile image71
          Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          What is the cost for dealing with him?

          Total annihilation of human civilization due to Nuclear War?

          Or merely having our Power Grid & Internet sabotaged and made inoperable?

          Does $10 a gallon at the pump sound good to you?

          Is that a price you are willing to pay to interfere in what is practically a Civil War.

          You do realize the majority of Ukrainians speak Russian.  That over 90% in the Eastern Ukraine have Family ties to Russia.

          Where does this attitude of yours come from, that what America does is so right (IE - Iraq) but what any other country does is evil?

          1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
            Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            A civil war? What?  You're implying that Russia and Ukraine are the same country, they are not.  Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. Putin has gone into Ukraine, unprovoked and against international law. Sovereign Nations get to determine their own future. Plain and simple.
            I do not understand what the significance is of Ukrainian citizens who speak Russian? Or The fact that Russians and Ukrainians have family in either country.  This, to me and many others means Russians and Ukrainians do not see each other as the enemy. This is very obvious with the outbreak of Russian protests today against Putin's moves in Ukraine. I think our "genius" has bitten off more than he can chew.  He is showing a disconnect with reality, lying about history and apparently doesn't realize it isn't 1939 anymore. His people don't support him, His economy was already bad and about to get much worse putting more strain on his people. 
            My attitude? we need to do all that we can to support the Ukrainian people in the face of  Putin's unprovoked attack.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image71
              Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              OK, I again ask, what price are you willing to pay?

              "We need to do all that we can" - give some detail to that, so that I can understand how committed you are and what you are willing to risk.

              This isn't some backwater Nation we are talking about.  This is Russia which has the largest Nuclear capability of any nation other than the US, a country that has secured the support of China for these actions against Ukraine.

              So, what is your solution?

              1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Ken:  One doesn't have to have a solution in order to just have support and be patriotic  The price she pays is to argue with you.  I believe every decision has a price to pay, some or larger than others. Her decision is to support the Ukrainian people.

                I will say this.  I'm impressed how Putin executed a conventional invasion of Ukraine instead of asymmetrical warfare like we did in Viet Nam and in the Mid-East. At least he knows who his enemy is and is controlling the land mass by starting from three sides of the country and closing in on the capitol.

                In asymmetrical warfare, you are fighting pockets of resistance all over the country and no one wears uniforms, so it is difficult to Identify the enemy. That's the way it was in the mid-east.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Ultimately Russia cannot hold the Western half of Ukraine... nor do I think its in Putin's plans to do so.

                  The Eastern half, Including all the Black Sea region, is populated essentially by Russians, they speak Russian, there history is deeply tied to Russia, etc.  they can be incorporated fully into Russia.

                  The Western half has more history with Poland and Lithuania, including a dire history during WWII when they joined with Nazi Germany in spreading their genocide upon the Russian people.

                  Ukraine isn't unified, it is a joining of two nearly equal halves with two distinct/separate histories, language and cultural backgrounds that have never really built a history as one Nation.

                  I think Ukraine's fate will be similar to Korea... the difference being, there is already a split there between regions, language, etc. unlike Korea.

                  1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                    Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    No, Ukraine is more unified than you are portraying.
                    the outcomes of Ukraine’s two most recent presidential elections, which have both taken place following the onset of hostilities with Russia. Neither the 2014 nor the 2019 votes produced anything approaching an east-west divide. On both occasions, the winning candidate secured majorities in virtually every single region of the country. This is a strong indication that while political preferences and personal opinions may vary from region to region, Ukrainians are fundamentally united against existential threats to the nation.

                    There are also ample indications that Ukrainians are increasingly united over the country’s future direction. In the eight years since the outbreak of hostilities with Russia, support for Euro-Atlantic integration has surged while the number of Ukrainians favoring closer ties with Moscow has plummeted to record lows.

                    A December 2021 poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology found that among Ukrainians ready to participate in a referendum, 75.7% would back EU membership and 67.8% would support joining NATO.

                    Also your attempts to portray Ukraine as being hopelessly divided along linguistic lines are similarly misinformed. While the post-imperial transition from Russian to Ukrainian has frequently been exploited for political purposes, most Ukrainians are bilingual and both languages can be routinely encountered throughout the country on a daily basis.Nor is linguistic choice in any way an indication of political preferences in contemporary Ukraine. While usage of Ukrainian is on the rise nationally, today’s Kyiv remains the largest Russian-speaking city in the world outside of Russia itself, yet nobody would suggest that it is anything other than a bastion of Ukrainian patriotism.

                    Even in predominantly Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine, opinion polls regularly demonstrate strong public backing for legislation supporting the status of Ukrainian as the country’s official state language. For example, a September 2020 survey conducted by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation and the Razumkov Center found that 65.2% in eastern Ukraine backed the use of Ukrainian in schools, while a similarly convincing majority of 62.7% felt that state officials should speak Ukrainian while conducting their duties.


                    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/u … d-ukraine/

                    1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      I've done my own research, I didn't just read an article or watch a CNN report to come to my conclusions.

                      There are always varying factors. Nothing is absolute.  You are trying to minimize a shared history, culture, I don't believe that article quite gives enough credence to how such things work, especially in the worst of times.

                      1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                        Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Hmm. CNN report? What? Where was that cited?  I mentioned specific metrics from Kyiv International Institute and Razumkov Center. Quite centered in the region As well as respected. What do you believe gives more credence? I mean specifically. 

                        East/west divisions are not what you claim and they've been steadily eroding.
                        https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr … st-divide/

                2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Ultimately Russia cannot hold the Western half of Ukraine... nor do I think its in Putin's plans to do so.

                  The Eastern half, Including all the Black Sea region, is populated essentially by Russians, they speak Russian, there history is deeply tied to Russia, etc.  they can be incorporated fully into Russia.

                  The Western half has more history with Poland and Lithuania, including a dire history during WWII when they joined with Nazi Germany in spreading their genocide upon the Russian people.

                  Ukraine isn't unified it is a joining of two nearly equal halves with two distinct/separate histories, language and cultural backgrounds that have never really built a history as one Nation.

                  I think Ukraine's fate will be similar to Korea... the difference being, there is already a split there between regions, language, etc. unlike Korea.

              2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Let the international sanctions take hold. They are the strongest ever imposed and will take time. Americans always want to see an immediate result This is going to take months. I believe they'll bring Putin to his knees.  Putin’s disastrous decision will reverberate for years to come. Tough international sanctions are coming, and Russia’s economy (and the Russian people) will pay a price. So, too, will the Russian oligarch elite, who will likely find that their ability to jet off to London or the French Riviera or move their money to safe harbors around the world will be severely constrained.

                But even worse will be the hit to Moscow’s international reputation. Russia is now a pariah state and its leader persona non grata. There will be no summit meetings with Western leaders in Putin’s future, and certainly no attendance at international conferences. So long as Putin remains in charge, Russia will be on the outside looking in when it comes to being a member in good standing of the international community.
                Also, Putin's nostalgia for the old Soviet Union may resonate with older people but younger Russians  will see it as an old man's fantasy.
                Putin has spent eight years trying, and failing, to dominate Ukraine. I think he's only giving ideas to his own people what their country should actually be like. It's the beginning of the end for him.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I think both of those are miscalculations, at best.

                  But I agree that those thoughts are what the governments of the West are giving to the media, in public.

                  I think this strengthens our alliance with the EU at a time when they had been leaning increasingly towards China in recent years.  Since China supports Russia in this action, the EU will now lean back toward America for protection and support.

                  India will remain Neutral on this matter, until China invades Taiwan, then they will side with America and the EU in opposition against China, Russia, and those countries that align with them.

                  Ultimately I expect we will see China, Russia, and those Nations that align with them (Iran, Syria, Georgia, North Korea, half of those in Africa) move off of the Dolar Reserve entirely and create their own Reserve... essentially splitting World Trade and the World Economy in two.  This could be one scenario.

                  I just don't see this move being made by Putin in isolation, there are other moving pieces to this, this is a part of something larger.   

                  But I could be wrong, Putin could be a total idiot and the invasion of Ukraine becomes the catalyst to his downfall. But I wouldn't bet on it.

      13. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        The entire scenario which is unfolding is the doing of the Anglo-Saxon powers the UK and the USA. NATO is not as united as made out and Germany and France do not wish to fight Russia on behalf of Ukraine. In any case, NATO itself is an obsolete organization now and it has shown that it is powerless in Ukraine.
        We must bear in mind that all the other American-sponsored military Pacts like the Baghdad Pact, SEATO, CENTO have long since folded up and NATO was the only one left. It was all right during the 40s and 50s but is now totally out of reality. The plan of the Americans and the British to surround Russia with NATO countries and keep it perpetually weak has failed.
        it's all very well to talk that Ukraine needs freedom and all that but must remember that the security of a country is more important otherwise why would the Americans have almost gone to a nuclear war in 1962 on the subject of Cuba. Nobody wants to talk about it and the Americans have committed so many war crimes during the last 77 years like killing 200,000 civilians by atom bombing them when Japan had lost the war just to test the efficacy of the weapon cannot be forgotten.
        Those who stay in glass houses should not throw throw throw stones at others. Only the Americans and the British and their allies are talking of sanctions who else is talking of sanctions? out of the big power in the world India, China, Pakistan, or any country in Africa? One needs to be realistic and not rely on rhetoric.

        1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Those who support democracy have leveled sanctions.  Maybe we Should be looking at sanctions on those who side with, do business or support the criminal invasion of Ukraine by Putin. Innocent people are being murdered and Ukraine right now.  I suppose you're either on the side freedom or you're not.

      14. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        If freedom means instigating populations and people to rise up to create your own hegemony then I will always oppose it. Each Ukrainian killed is because of the thoughtless actions of the Anglo-Saxon powers. Even know if Joe Biden can give security assurance to Russia, the war can be called off but will he do it? he won't.

        1. Valeant profile image78
          Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Putin does not recognize Ukraine's sovereignty.  He has said as much and wants to recreate the USSR.  This isn't about getting security assurances any more than annexing Crimea was.  The only thoughtless action here is by Putin.

      15. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        I think you have a balanced perspective. Nobody likes war least of all the soldiers. The Ukraine crisis could have been easily avoided if Joe Biden had shown some sense. There was no point in trying to needle Russia and expanding NATO Eastwards. Short of nuclear war and destruction of Europe there is no way Putin can be stopped. This is because Europe does not have proper conventional forces and to always rely on a nuclear deterrent has no meaning. In that case, you are living in an IF and BUT because the enemy may not recognize nuclear deterrent and if you use nuclear weapons the small countries simply cease to exist from the map. One should not forget what Nikita Khrushchev said about England -it requires just 5 to 6 H Bombs to wipe England off the map of the world. There was a time when Boris Yeltsin was president of Russia that approach was made to join NATO and I think Clinton refused why because the Americans always wanted to keep Russia as an enemy to perpetuate their hegemony over Europe. I can tell you in Singapore where I am nobody's against Putin and Russia and almost everybody I meet is of the view that it is the American fault. My esteemed colleagues on hub pages may agree or not.

      16. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        https://hubstatic.com/15904680.jpg

        1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, a clown car of actors paraded out nightly to take advantage of those who don't understand they're watching a contrived production.

          1. peoplepower73 profile image85
            peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Faye:  I think that is one of the reasons Putin decided to invade Ukraine.  He knows that our country is divided because of the clowns at Fox News and Trump and his cohorts.

            1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
              Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Yes!!  They are giving Putin something to show Russians to possibly make them believe we support Putin. I do believe the Russian people are more savvy though.

            2. IslandBites profile image66
              IslandBitesposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I think he worked hard on that. In Europe too.

              I think this has been in the works for quite some time, years.

      17. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        https://hubstatic.com/15904777.jpg

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          That says it ALL!!

          1. GA Anderson profile image83
            GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, it does! (relative to your comment, of course)

            GA

      18. Kathleen Cochran profile image73
        Kathleen Cochranposted 3 years ago

        He's given us a Supreme Court justice who is actually experienced and comes with no sleazy accusations. That's more than can be said for four of the sitting justices nominated by Republican presidents.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Bitter at all?

      19. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        I wonder how many want to discuss the Atom bombing and killing of 200,000 defenseless civilians during World War II, the carpet bombing of North Vietnam, the invasion of Iraq, the battle in Afghanistan, and many more. Yes, we must talk off the Russian bombing and forget that the largest number of prisoners in the world in jails are in America.

      20. emge profile image81
        emgeposted 3 years ago

        All agreements and pacts are broken at some stage. Hitler broke his non-aggression pact with Stalin in 1941. The United States under Nixon did not act on Pakistan's request as per their mutual. defence pact for help when the Indian troops were advancing into East Pakistan. Pakistan broke into 2 nations. I am not justifying anything but the facts are that a nation uses the acts and agreement so long as it suits it and then forgets about it. This is not applicable to Russia alone.

      21. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        Getting back on track to the thread's topic, Biden's administration ramping up energy production while lowering carbon emissions:

        https://www.yahoo.com/news/bidens-offsh … 30730.html

      22. Valeant profile image78
        Valeantposted 3 years ago

        Even some in the GOP can understand the praise for Putin bordering on treason....

        https://www.yahoo.com/news/romney-cnn-u … 57437.html

        And this segment should disgust every American...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_POI6U3ZmVc

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          "A lot of those people are changing their stripes as they are seeing the response of the world and the political response here in the U.S.," Romney said during an interview on CNN's "State of the Union," when asked about pro-Putin sentiment within the Republican Party."

          "But how anybody — how anybody in this country, which loves freedom — can side with Vladimir Putin — which is an oppressor, a dictator, he kills people, he imprisons his political opponents, he has been an adversary of America at every chance he's had — it's unthinkable to me. It's almost treasonous," he continued. "And it just makes me ill to see some of these people do that."

          Do you feel those that have made remarks that have stated they feel Putin's plan was well thought out or in some cases called it genius is being treasonous? Is there any room to say they are giving an opinion on Putin as a Strategist plain and simple?

          Have we come to the point people are too free with their thoughts?

          1. Valeant profile image78
            Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            As you have said, this could put us on the brink of war with Russia.  The last thing we need is our own citizens giving comfort to our enemies by praising them.  Lending aid and comfort through media support does border on treason.

            In that second video, you've got people chanting Putin's name.  If that doesn't disgust you, it should.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I see both views as very viable, I tend to agree at this point we can see the writing is on the wall, and our politicians and pundits need to watch what they say.  It's clear we have a fight, and perhaps we can take a page out of the citizens of Ukraine's book. They have united for one cause. 

              The video is disgusting, but also scary for the fact we have people that are willing to look past Putin's murderous history.

              1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Sharlee: I'll finish your sentence for you based on what I saw in the video.

                The video is disgusting, but also scary for the fact we have people that are willing to look past Putin's murderous history and support both Trump and Putin.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  We agree, it gives me no comfort to look at the mess we now are left with in America.

        2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          The tactic du jour : leading their  followers into hatred of America. And for what? To score some political points? I'm sickened by the video of them chanting Putin's name. And Mr Trump continually undermining our current administration. Just continued name calling but you notice he never says what he would have done, What he would do. It's always just these vague proclamations of "This wouldn't have happened if I were president"  all bluster. No substance. Calling people "dumb" isn't a solution.

      23. Credence2 profile image81
        Credence2posted 3 years ago

        Now it is time to make FOX, Trump, Carlson and the entire cast of 5th columnist traitors eat a little crow. The entire world has condemned Putin and his actions in the Ukraine. I like to see the Rightwingers who were so determine to extol Putin's 'genius' spin their way out of this one.

        PS: I am more than satisfied that President Biden handled the crisis well, doing all he could and should have done to counter Putin's aggression in the Ukraine. Global public opinion may well stand Putin down even when compared with the threat of massive nuclear arsenals.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          I hate to say this --- Do you feel it a good thing to corner a man that now threatens to use a nuclear option? I don't care if the world has condemned Putin. Like he ever won a popularity contest. Come on --- your hanging on words.  In my opinion, Putin will most likely use the nuclear option in Ukraine, and then tell me about a bunch of bureaucrats' fluffy bloviated words.

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Sharlee, in another comment I made on this topic, I did say that if we can get past this immediate crisis it would be well advised to negotiate with Putin to ameliorate his feeling of Russia being surrounded by a hostile West on all sides.

            I doubt that he would use the nuclear option as there is not any direct military threat from the West. I don't believe that even he is at that point yet. Russia against the entire world? I don't think that he had that in mind.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I feel if he can't move more quickly in taking Ukraine, he will use a nuclear weapon. I don't think he would even blink.

              1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Sharlee:   I don't believe Putin will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine or any place else for that matter. Nuclear weapons have one nasty side effect and that is radiation fallout.  I don't think he wants to decimate the country he wants to take over with mushroom clouds loaded with radiation...Just look at Nagasaki and Hiroshima in 1945.

                I think he might us thermobaric bunker buster bombs that he now has in Ukraine.  They are used to demolish underground tunnels and bunkers by   super heating their targets and sucking the oxygen out of the targeted area. By the way, we used them in Afghanistan.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Not sure of the size of the weapon he would use, but I think if he can't win any other way or if NATO puts troops in Ukraine he will use a nuclear weapon. Just my view. I take Putin at his word.

                  I don't doubt we have used them in the least or do I doubt Putin will use them.

                  Hopefully, I am wrong. But this is my prediction if he can overrun them he will nuke them or use chemical weapons. We sure have a horrendous problem, do we not?

        2. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Cred, I want to convince you to consider another perspective. One that thinks that Carlson and Hannity, et al. although way off base in their hyperbole and `bloviating', (Ha! remember who's favorite word that was?), are right about the efficacy, (damn, another 25 cents), of Putin's plan.

          It is also a perspective that thinks negotiations and the `punishment' of Putin are one of his planned objectives in this campaign.

          Here's the scenario:

          Putin wants control of most or all of Ukraine's Black Sea access/ownership. He doesn't want to "own" or occupy Ukraine. He wants to own or control the recently discovered Black Sea oil and gas resources. With the annexation of Crimea he took a huge part of Ukraine's territorial waters and with this plan he is going after the rest.

          The NATO issue has been a pretext all along. It allowed the world to probably, and initially,  see his actions as a legitimate, even if unnecessary, national fear as a reason for his actions. No one would have even considered thinking that if the known objective was the control of Ukraine's gas and oil prospects.

          So, I think he will fight until he secures control of the breakaway regions and that coastal territory. Consider his attacks. Even with the massiveness of his military capabilities, his progress has been more `pound and grind' than `shock and awe', (which he certainly had the forces to accomplish).

          Add that to the minimal, (please, that is intended as a measure of scale, not to diminish the tragedy that is occurring), civilian damage, so far. He has the military might to bomb the hell out of the cities he supposedly wants. He isn't losing, he is buying time to consolidate the goals I mentioned.

          He is allowing world pressure against him to mount, and wrecking Ukraine as he waits. When he gets those goals I mentioned he will let himself appear to be forced to the negotiating table.

          He will make demands in exchange for an armistice. He will demand that his 2014 Crimea action be accepted by the world and he will demand that the breakaway regions and the "conquered" coastal lands be recognized as separate from Ukraine.

          Because he will have achieved realistic control of those contested areas he will give in on the separation stuff because he will make them "rebel" war zones until the time is right to annex them, a la Crimea.

          So, The West's, (aka USA), negotiators will end up demanding Putin's forced withdrawal from Ukraine and denying his separatist, (and NATO) demands—and claim a world victory over a national villain as a huge victory for freedom-loving people. Good triumphed over evil.

          So, poor defeated Putin will crawl out of Ukraine with nothing but world condemnation for his actions

          And that bud, will be an act. He really will leave, but relative to his goals he will leave a victor. He will have wrecked Ukraine and placed the rebuilding costs on the West. He will have ensured Ukraine will never become a NATO nation. And will have gained the Black Sea control that was his primary objective.

          Plus, it seems certain he will also demand that most of the sanctions be canceled once he does withdraw. (his capital surplus will carry them through until then). I think the negotiators will agree to that. They may argue and sue for damages, but that's a multi-decade non-issue for Putin.

          Now, that's just one scenario. If you follow through the WW III thread, starting with Chris57's link you will see what changed my mind and the context of that change.

          As a caution, don't misinterpret my hopes. I hope it doesn't work out that way, I am not rooting for Putin. But the only hope I can see, and it's a very faint one, is that Ukraine somehow retains at least an equilibrium of control over the breakaway area border regions—denying Putin the future control he anticipates by supporting the rebels until he gets what he wants.

          And to add a ps. I wouldn't criticize Pres. Biden's actions either. None of us know what he knows, (the administration), and if my perspective is right he is almost doing all he can: try to smooth public angst, anger and righteousness, and assist Ukraine in all ways plausibly possible, (US troops aren't a plausible action).

          GA

          1. Sharlee01 profile image85
            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Lots of words... I am predicting one outcome --- Putin wins.

            1. Valeant profile image78
              Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              That was the most unpatriotic sentence I've read at this site.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                You're being overly dramatic.  You do realize it is not the US fighting this war? It would seem odd to say I was being unpatriotic. It would seem you feel the US is at war. We are not.

                I just offered a realistic view of the situation in the Russia/Ukraine war.

                Do you feel Ukraine can win this war with Russia? It is very obvious they will fight to save their country, and this is commendable beyond words. But Russia is so powerful and has a very ruthless leader that will try to win at all costs. I hope we see a true miricle.

          2. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Well, Putin is not anything if he is not shrewd. The scanario that you paint sounds much more like an realistic and obtainable objective. This whole affair has been regional anyway, and as you say Putin could virtually wipe the Ukraine off from the map, carpet bombing of cities, etc. I agree, relative to what damage Russia could do, things have been going slow and that has to be interpreted as restraint on Putin's part.

            I don't believe that any of the "genius Putin" crowd really understood the end game any more than Biden or the rest of the world. What Putin objectives are are eminently practical and he may well be in enough control to the pursue real-politik goals rather than pipe dreams. He may have a method to his madness and not be as unhinged as I had previously thought.

            No, I recognize that you are not giving Putin a carte Blanche, containing Putin and avoid a wider conflict has to be an important goal in itself.

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I'm glad you can see the possibilities of this scenario. Relative to Pres. Biden and his administration, if this scenario is close, and considering the analytical brainpower available in the various advising organizations, I am sure the president, and the past couple of presidents, have been fully briefed on this.

              What they, (Biden/Trump/Obama), really could do is beyond my consideration, but I am feeling a whole lot less critical of Pres. Biden's actions.

              GA

            2. My Esoteric profile image87
              My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              I will agree that Putin is shrewd, at least in the short-term. He does seem to have gravely miscalculated in the long-term.

              In one blow, he repaired all of the damage Trump did NATO by allowing Biden to masterfully cement the alliance back together again.

              He seems to totally underestimated how the world would react to his terrorist invasion

              He also seems to have totally underestimated the resolve of the Ukrainian  people.

              The world totally underestimated the ability for Zelenskyy to rise to the occasion.

              He totally underestimated what it would take militarily to bring Ukraine quickly to heal.

              OK, I take back agreeing that he is shrewd.  It seems he was Trump-like stupid and that President Biden rose to the occasion and turned out to be the strong and shrewd one.

              1. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Welcome back, you have to remember that Rightwingers are always snowflakes under the skin,

                We certainly agree, Putin was shrewd in the short term, bringing the world to the brink only because he wanted access ports on the Black Sea. This sounds much more like real politik and less megalomaniac. I don't think that he had anticipated the sheer extent of the world ire against him and his invasion.

                With continued reading, I had come to a conclusion why so much of the GOP were singing Putin's praises. It was not about Putin more than about his model of governance, that of an autocratic tyrant. I truly believe that model is what conservatives are looking for in America.

                We had Trump in his stated admiration of the North Korean dictator, saying that he, too, would like to rule for life. He also, giving affinity to a killer like Putin, attacked his own agencies without grounds on his behalf.

                Then we had Tucker Carlson doing his "exclusive" on behalf of the strong armed, autocrat tyrant in Hungary? Telling us all how he and his society stood firm for "traditional values",(homophobia, misogyny and Racism) thumbing his nose at the rest of cosmopolitan Western Europe.

                Then we had January 6, 2021, when the President of the United States and a fascist oriented mob with their very behavior says, "fair contests aside we want our "Trump". Our man wins, regardless of the results of the national election. The truth when presented in every possible way, meant nothing to them.  There, is fascism at work and the foundation for the "Big Lie".

                Now this thing with Putin.

                We are in grave danger as there exists for one political party a desire to create a "1953 Project", a return to a time in America where the white man reigned supreme and everyone else quietly assumed their subordinate roles and kept their mouths shut. It may well act as a cover for wealthy and corporate entities to do as they like with impunity. As dumb as so many working class Republicans are, they don't realize that in the GOP "new order", they will deceived into thinking that they will actually benefit.

                I warn conservatives/Rightwingers to expect serious repercussions if they even consider such a thing.

                1. My Esoteric profile image87
                  My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  No question we are in grave danger so long as Trump Republicans keep getting elected.  I have to differentiate between Trump Republicans, who are as you describe, and what I will call modern day Republicans (which are themselves a different species from Real Republicans aka Lincoln Republicans - ywhich I would be if it existed anymore).

                  Whether they know it or not, Trump Republicans are, in effect, anti-democratic and anti-American.  I know they don't see it that way because an authoritarian, White dominated America seems logical to them.  But THAT is not what a real America is about.  A real America comes up with Marshall plans and orchestrating a world response to a murdering Trump wanna-be (lol).

                  1. peoplepower73 profile image85
                    peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Perhaps this may explain why Trump followers admire him and tend to  support him no matter what he does or says.

                    https://www.union.edu/news/stories/2020 … ward-trump

                    1. My Esoteric profile image87
                      My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      Very interesting article.  I will need to update my hubs on RWA and Social Dominance with this information.

                  2. Credence2 profile image81
                    Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    The problem, Esoteric is that the Trump Republicans is a virus that is taking over the party, no more Rockefeller or even Dick Cheney types. If the Trumpers remain some sort of kooky cult outside of the mainstream of Republican politics, I would be relieved. But, that is not what I see here.

                    Whatever passed in Republican circles as moderate, is long gone.
                    The "modern day" Republicans are an endangered species that may well have shared the fate of the passenger pigeon....

                    1. wilderness profile image76
                      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                      You talk as if the identical thing isn't happening on the other side of the fence, as we watch the likes of AOC and her ilk, or even Pelosi with her power grabs take over the Democrat Party.

                      What we really need is to scrap both of them, starting fresh.  Which will never happen as greedy people, and those that wish to control others, are quite happy with the status quo.  And between the two they are a big majority of the country.

                      1. My Esoteric profile image87
                        My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, you have that correct.  This disintegration of a once proud, patriotic Party is unique to the Republican Party.

                        History clearly shows Parties that go off the deep end like the Republican Party clearly has end up self-destructing themselves and ultimately disappear.  I suspect that will happen here.  The Republicans that have been expelled by Trumpers will likely join or form another Party, such as the Centrist Party.

          3. Ken Burgess profile image71
            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I think you would make for an excellent tactician, military or political.

            Very well thought out and insightful.

            This explains the heavy focus on the south eastern region which is the area that seems the most solidly/completely occupied at this moment.

            And the region inland in the north eastern province(s) that is also under occupied control, which had a large natural gas deposit as well.  His moves have secured all but the most southernly (and smaller) of those, which were right on the border with Moldova.

            This is a much more realistic and attainable goal... I had seen the River as the delineation mark/goal, that is so 20th century tactical thinking, Putin is thinking economic relevance... Russian survival.

            This explains a lot.. including the "kid gloves" being used, the amount of force used has been what I would term "minimal" compared to what it could have been.  I couldn't understand it, until I read your theory.

            The attack on Kyiv was just a feint to focus the attention on defending the Capitol at all costs while the real objectives are secured.

      24. MG Singh profile image62
        MG Singhposted 3 years ago

        I don't think we should be Putin's threat lightly. If you push him in a corner he's sure to react with something terrible. People will recollect that Japan went into action during World War II and attacked Pearl Harbor after the trade sanctions had crippled Japan. At the moment the only way out is that in case Putin is removed as president by the Russian people, I don't know whether that is possible.

      25. My Esoteric profile image87
        My Esotericposted 3 years ago

        Some Trump-type coward decided they cannot stand the honest truth and facts and with being corrected for their disinformation, misinformation, and lies and had me banned for a few days.

        1. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years ago

          I am very proud of President Biden for the way he has brought NATO and the world together to effectively oppose murdering Putin and his attack on [b]democracy[/i]

          I agree with President Zelenskyy when he said something to the effect of opposing murdering Putin isn't just to help Ukraine keep its democracy but it is to make sure the rest of the world keep our democracy as well.

        2. My Esoteric profile image87
          My Esotericposted 3 years ago

          President Biden signed 80 bi-partisan bills in 2021

         
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