A slap in the face to all Americans...Thanks, Obama

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maven101posted 14 years ago
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Following the earthquake in Haiti, the United States rushed in to help - with money, medicine, and manpower. To date, we've already given over $179 million in humanitarian aid... but Barack Obama ordered all U.S. installations to take down their American flags, lest we be seen as an "occupying army" rather than "international partners."

It is patently appalling that a president of the United States would consider our flag to be a symbol of militaristic takeovers and colonialism, especially when serving (to a greater degree than any other nation on Earth) a humanitarian purpose.

Additionally, who would think we'd want to occupy Haiti?!

No other country giving aid in Haiti has lowered its flag.
But then again, no other country has a leader who is offended by their own flag....Larry
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well the US has occupied Haiti with US forces twice and this was a delicate thing for the Haitians to deal with.
  
  The first time was in 1915 and ended in 1934.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta … n_of_Haiti
  
  In 1994 a US occupation force stayed till 2000.
  http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb20 … -f17.shtml
  
  I don't know but if I were a Haitian, the idea of the US military coming to visit would raise a little suspicion looking at their track record of quick retreats. Especially with Iraq and Afghanistan.
  
  Did I mention the oil that is offshore of Haiti?
  http://womblog.de/2010/01/23/oil-in-hai … ccupation/
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is sick, just plain sick, makes your stomach hurt. Tell me, please, that what you have said is simply not true, simply misinterpretation, tell me, leave some faint hope.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Are you serious? Did you read the thread?
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People who see the USA as a global empire hate it when people are so uncouth as to speak of the USA as a global empire.
  
  Why if it was true, we might declare war on an oil-rich country who had nothing to do with a terrorist attack in the US on the pretense of defending ourselves against non-existent WMD - and then negotiate under duress no-bid oil contracts for the American oil companies who sponsored the 'liberation' of oil - I mean - liberation of Iraq.
  
  Something like that - if it ever happened might make a country nervous when they saw large numbers of GIs.. Not sure why - it's not like we ever tortured anyone.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From Native Americans, through slavery, to Abu-Graib - no, it's not like you ever tortured anyone...
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of all the people here, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on Doug's sarcasm.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean it was sarcasm?
  
  Well, I guess I have to get some rest then...
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Livelonger,
  The truth of the matter is that YOU did not pick up on Misha's sarcasm
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  tom hellertposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lARRY ,
  ARE YOU A CARPENTER BECAUSE YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD , That sad excuse for a president we have has not said a positive thung about america since he acorned his way into the white house. This sad excuse for a president never stops appologizing for us regardless of what we do. I surprised he even helped Hatti, they don't hate us there. He runs to their aid but does nothing about the pourous borders and did nothing for days when the oil was spewing into the Gulf - he was busy fundraising.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who was the last "sad excuse for a president" you helped elect? C'mon, who was the last elected president you helped put into office?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great point...Well said!
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  RNMSNposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  shall we ask jimmy carter to come back? I ,mean, in contrast anyone would be better...actually I think he needs to be triedfor treason myself way to go ralph deeds!
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  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe it's not that the President thinks that America takes advantage of nations in distress, that should worry you, rather, Americas record of taking advantage of nations in similar situations.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  War Made Easy
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5CF5pfVzLI
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watchyaposted 14 years ago
Yes! Who would think something like that ?

When almost everywhere is occupied by USA economic policies
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not to mention real military force
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
sign of the times perhaps? new directions?
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
Oh big flippin' deal.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very big deal
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is a big deal.
  
  The American Flag is considered the ultimate sign of freedom. Your limited understanding of what it has taken to defend its meaning is irrelevant along with your flippant attitude.
  
  If you are an American you should go thank a military person for your freedom to be ungrateful.
  
  ...I would be one of those military people I just spoke of...
  
  You're very welcome!
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  American flag is a sign of freedom to you, but not necessarily to everyone else.
  
  And yer wrong about everything else too.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a sign of freedom for me. And he's wrong in everything else. Yes !
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No he isn't, but you are!
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I support these statements. Thanks for these, PB!
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  Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Three cheers to OneWhiteSquare. Too bad the rest of you who don't agree didn't grow up during WWII like my mother did with Nazis and Communists. She could tell you what the American flag stands for and to be greatful that you live in this awesome country this flag represents. You take for granted the freedoms this country has given you. You should go live someplace else where there is no such freedom to speak your mind for a few years. Countless brave men and women died to perserve what the American Flag stands for. If you don't like the freedom you have here, go live someplace else and see if you will be more free.
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  RNMSNposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  bravo disturbia, as a mother I am very proud of you and as a wife of a seal and a son of a marine we all say hoowah to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  F##k Y$%
  And your attempt to use our Soldiers to force us to think your way. It's an old trick from the Bush years we are not fallin for anymore. What President Obama is doing is showing some Grace. A word and attitude I'm sure is alien to you...LOOK IT UP!
  And dont try to use our Patriotism to manipulate us again...it's old.
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What Patriotism?
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  IT'S AN AMERICAN THING!
  DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. WE GOT THIS.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "grace"?! How about "DISGRACE"?
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Obama should be impeached on that alone.
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
Yes - completely ridiculous that the US would want Haiti, no oil, no big neighbour to threaten.

Are you for real !! don't you know that the US flag is seen as a symbol of oppression in many parts of the world outside.

Good on Obama for pursuing sensitive policies and only being there for the right reasons.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the parts of the world that it IS seen as a threat gives me pause to believe that THEY should probably see it that way.
  
  I could give a rats ass how other countries view America...They all want to be here! They all want to experience the freedoms we (still) have.
  
  I am sure your disgust for your own country will not lead you to leave it, but rather bad mouth it while you enjoy the fruits of those who have died for its cause.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to be there , not even paid for.
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's okay too...Whenever your country needs help we'll be there!
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  You sure are here ! as everywhere else !
  
  I choose not to see you ,and build my own little freedom ,despite your 'Delirium Tremens' grandeur
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I don't want to be there , not even paid for."
  
  You are most welcome to stay away
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Having disgust for certain American policies doesn't mean one has to leave. There is also a choice to try and change things for the better. You do not decide for us all, thank goodness!
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have every right to be proud of your flag and what it stands for - but you are using the issue in Haiti for a different reason, to criticise your own elected leader. By definition what you are doing is more close to traitor than defending your flag.
  
  If you really believe that the parts of the world that do not see your flag as representing freedom kinda deserve it then you should listen to more foreign (not-US) news. Most of the rest of the world are penalised in one way or another through the sham of 'free trade' that sends trade to you; and if they have oil then your god help them!
  
  the myth that everyone wants to go to America was already dead at the time of 'West Side Story' but like all the others kept alive past its sell by date by Disney and Hollywood.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess all those people who flocked to this country after the release of West side story were forced to come here.
  
  I sense a great deal of jealousy at not being American on your part, how sad for you, how great for us!
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am going to leave you shouting down your own elected leader and go to bed - night night !
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  His party is being dismissed seat by seat! The only people shouting are the ones who actually vote on a consistent basis not the ones he conned in the last election, you know, the young who have gone back to playing Mariocart!
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  RNMSNposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hear, hear!!
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I'm sure that's it! Everyone is jealous of us Americans. Especially jealous of how some Americans want to speak for everyone here.
  
  I do care what other countries think of us and you do not speak for me. With all of the scandals resulting from the Iraq war, Abu Garib, Haliburton, Gitmo, torture, rendition, WMD lies, etc., we have taken some bad hits to our credibility.
  
  We all share the same planet and it's getting smaller every day. We can't ignore the world view of us at this time in our history or we will pay for it in time.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And how exactly do you think we will pay for it?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If we piss off China, or any other country who is buying the bonds which help keep our economy running, you will find out soon enough.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are paying it right now
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  By the way, I was not attempting to speak for anyone but myself. Your reaction is as ridiculous as the arguments are getting for Arizona's latest law!
  
  Just because you say it doesn't make it true, you are aware of that I hope.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That you do not speak for me? I can say without a doubt this is true!
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agree
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We have the right to critisize our elected leaders...it's the callousness and hatred for one's own country that is treasonous.
  
  I have traveled the world and have seen parts of it that no other American has ever been to...except in a text book... And they certainly would have wanted me to pack them in my suitcase and brought them back to the U.S.A.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "you are using the issue in Haiti for a different reason, to criticise your own elected leader."
  
  That's not what it sounds like to me. It sounds like - yet again - he has earned criticism by his attitude and his actions.
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it an accumulation of disparate events that when added together point to Obama's shame of his country. There was the various bows, the apology tour and his criticism of the AZ immigration law, especially agreeing with the Mexican president in a press conference to the world. Add these and other events to the order to remove the American flags from established bases in Haiti and you get the sense that our own leader is ashamed of the country he leads.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "don't you know that the US flag is seen as a symbol of oppression in many parts of the world outside."
  
  Well then, we should pack it up and let all those 'nicer' countries help them out. They'd probably feel better about it anyway. I'm sure all the bitter little nations that see our flag as a symbol of oppression will pick up the slack and do as much as we can, right? I'm sure they have the capacity and the will to help as much as we have and are, right? I'm sure their private citizens will donate as much as Americans have and are, right? They don't want us or our flag, then we have lots of other stuff to do. Good luck.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The U.S. flag is seen as an oppressive nation? I think we should start oppressing more countries then, if we are going to be labeled bullies then lets start acting like bullies!
  
  And there are many reasons why NO ONE would want Haiti!
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  michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do act like bullies. Well, maybe not now Bush has gone.
  
  Obama is now trying to change the worlds opinion of America after all the harm that good ol "W" did.
  
  Illegal invasion of Iraq to settle a score and to take their oil. Setting up Guantanamo bay as it was not constitutional to illegally hold people without a fair trial and torture them in America. yada yada yada.
  
  Maybe the whole flag thing was overkill, but as rhamson puts it, you have been there before!
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree! and America should have its face slaped now and then as it is well diserved
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  KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's done a grand job changing the world's opinion of America, what a joke, if you take your cues from Europe, then I'd suggest you find a new candidate.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And who would do the slapping, Romania?
  
  Well, you do have some manly women!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People who feel as you do should find another country
  Where is your loyalty?
  If you're not from America then you know nothing about us.
  We come to the aide of everyone. Even those who hate us.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Before or after we come to their aide? (Iraq?)
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  michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When it comes to global opinion of America, it is those who are not from America that are in the best to comment.
  
  I was merely pointing out that whilst America does a lot of good and is the first to come and help, a lot of the time their "help" is not asked for, and it can appear that they are muscling their way in.
  
  Some cynics may even go as far as to say that their reasons for helping are not entirely altruistic in many cases.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
I agree with the OP the Americans have done more good in many places than most other countries and we should not be ashamed to stand under our flag no matter where we are.
Obama clearly has some loyalty issues and this is reflected in nearly all of the decisions he has made to date.
Time will tell soon enough where he is leading this country I just hope that by the time it is realized it is not to late stop it.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It has been too late for ages ! LOL
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a lousy negative view.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you're right. So ?
  That doesn't change the facts
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum I will not be drawn into a pointless debate with someone who is not even an a citizen of the Unites States on a subject that is clearly an issue of whether or not we have the right to fly our flag in a country where we have supplied more money , manpower, and assistance to than anyone else.
  If none of the other countries who are their to provide assistance are taking their flags down the we have a right to fly ours as well.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are spot on Ohma! I say fly our flag and be proud of it!
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
I don't see what all they hype is about. So what?

Do Americans need to set up their flag wherever they go?

If the U.S. suffered from a disaster, and the Mexican government came to help, if they flew a Mexican flag over their American-based aid station would there be some Americans who complained?

I guarantee it.

Why does the flight of a flag matter?

Just something else for anti-Obamaites to harp uselessly on.

Way to waste energy, brain activity, and time.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I don't see what all they hype is about. "
  
  Yes you do.
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The way it works is this ... Since I have first hand knowledge of being at an overseas bases for years...
  
  The American Flag is to never be flown below any other flag no matter where it may be. It is flown at the same level as the host country flag.
  
  The
  
  If other countries would even offer to help when we are in need would be a miracle, but none of them do.
  
  Your lack of knowledge on what the American Flag is and how it is to be treated shows your lack of participation in what it takes to keep our country free. President Obama has proven himself to be the antithesis of American freedom and shows himself to be a partner to the countries who would love to see it fall.
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maven101posted 14 years ago
Interesting comments...Some quite naive, and others, usually Americans, knowledgable...The real question is why are we just finding out about this spineless order, that originated with the Obama administration, when the dateline for the story is March 15th...?
We still fly our flag proudly in Germany. Japan, and South Korea, all countries that have benefited economically from the Marshall plan or other economic support from the US...I don't think these countries consider us as occupiers, but rather as partners in mutual economic benefit or military alliance for defense...Larry
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are comparing emergency efforts in Haiti to those in other countries for different reasons.?
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  maven101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps you are unaware of the vast destruction wreaked on these countries during the war...Haiti is small beans when compared to the utter dislocation and death of human beings during WW2...The Marshall Plan was, and still is, the largest, most sustained, and effective " emergency effort " ever in the history of mankind...And our flag is still flying over there, on our bases, and over our military cemeteries, which are the only plots of land we have asked for during our " occupation "...Larry
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  America benefited more than anybody else from the reconstuction of Europe; in fact it is the very reason America join the war
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hell of a lot of geniuses posting tonight.
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qwarkposted 14 years ago
I am an American by birth.
I voted "Libertarian."
Our forefathers created a gov't which has caused us to become the most powerful nation on earth in just over 200 yrs.
It is a "Republic." NOT a democracy!
"WE' voted Obama into office, which makes him the "titular" head of the nation.
It concerns and amazes me, when I read comments about him in this forum, that people blame him for all that has and is happening in the USA.
Our forefathers, very thoughtfully and very carefully, created a gov't whose powers are shared between the pres, congress, the senate and the supreme court. Why? So that no one facet of gov't could become so powerful it could usurp power and become a dictatorship....and it gave the citizenry the RIGHT to own and bear arms and become a militia if necessary.
Obama is but on ONE facet of American gov't.
If you are going to blame someone for things you don't agree with, blame OURSELVES for voting these POLITICIANS into office.
Placing the blame soley on Obama is, to me, expressing ignorance in ref to the fundamental purpose of the most wonderful document that man has yet created in ref to governing human beings fairly and responsibly: The Constitution of the United States of America!
If you disagree with gov't, get your heads out of your asses! Quit bitching, get educated and change things by understanding our Constitution and gov't and voting "smart!"
BLAME YOURSELVES!
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Really Sab...you are inside my mind now?

From pathetic and ridiculous to ludicrous.

And no....aside from Obama-hating...I don't see any purpose in putting out this story.

I have no problem with flags being taken down. Flags don't do anything useful when working with disaster victims and rebuilding...
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a marker for an American base. It lets Americans know outside the base that there is a haven, a place of safety and protection for them to go to if they need to. Every embassy, every outpost around the world staffed by other countries carry their flag for the same reasons and I see no reason to remove the American flag from American outposts in Haiti. Does anyone really believe America want to conquer Haiti? That's the equivalent of paying a fortune for a rusty car that doesn't run. In fact I believe some Haitians were begging to be occupied by the USA because as a country they are so corrupt and dysfunctional.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Really Sab...you are inside my mind now?"
  
  Yes, and don't speak so loudly - the echo is deafening in here.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "And no....aside from Obama-hating...I don't see any purpose in putting out this story."
  
  Should probably have been suppressed then, huh? More of that "dangerous" information obama was talking about?
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
For those who continue to point to "bowing"....I guess they never knew that, beginning with Richard Nixon, American Presidents have bowed to foreign leaders when meeting them in their home nation....

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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bowing in Asian cultures would be the same as shaking hands in ours, bowing before a Muslim King is quite different!
  
  And that doesn't look like Nixon to me, too much hair!
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I see so it was just an Asian custom for him to bow to the mayor of Tampa?
  
  Is that also a custom for Arabs? I thought they just kissed each other on the cheeks?
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
And they hold hands...

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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He was helping a fat king down the stairs...
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It looks more like the fat king is shoving him down the stairs
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it doesn't
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you've been in the sun too long. Your brains are fried ! lol
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Possibly.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Love good humour
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Me too, no sense in taking everything seriously.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where do the happy faces come from?
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  from formating tips at your right when you post
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Ah, learn something everyday, thanks.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
And kiss....open mouth?

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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's wispering in his ear..."I've got gas"
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
As a former Marine....the flag is not a necessity...and Americans do not need it in order to feel safe and protected.

There are other symbols that can be used.... Again, the U.S. has a legacy in Haiti that the Hatians themselves know well...and most Americans don't.

I see no problem with this issue, but I understand why "conservatives" like to make a mountain out of a molehill.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "As a former Marine....the flag is not a necessity..."
  
  And every single Marine I know would not treat you gently for having said that.
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  maven101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My sentiments exactly...Larry
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
If you don't believe that the picture is accurate do some research...

I assure you, this is real, and Nixon was by no means alone in this..
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Bowing to the pope...

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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's praying...
  
  everything is subjective....
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Bush bowing to the Chinese...where were all the criticisms???

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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can't figure out the difference?
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude he wasn't bowing, he was sneezing. just look at the chineese guy's recoiling reflex.
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's asking if he has it buttoned correctly...
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That picture does not show President Bush bowing
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Sab...I never heard any controversy when Bush bowed to the Chinese...so was it suppressed then?

Way to show your bias..
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like your bias isn't blazing a trail of Obamaness...
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you have another picture, because he wasn't bowing in that one. And I suppose the fact that he didn't go around the world apologizing to everyone he could find for what a terrible country we are did not lend people to scrutinize small gestures quite as closely. obama brought the attention on himself (as he is wont to do).
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Onewhitesquare, I understand the flag procedures....but, what does the flag have to do with providing humanitarian aid?

Does the United States have to always push its way on others?

No.

Ongoing anti-Obama beliefs...that is all this "controversy" is.....
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's just a marker that we are there...Nothing more nothing less.
  
  I agree with the pushy point...now we shouldn't but we do...It's a snobbiness we hold that every country "should" want to be like us.
  
  Obama continually proves himself to be Anti-American.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Does the United States have to always push its way on others?"
  
  And flying our flag where we are devoting huge amounts of money, supplies, and manpower to help out people devastated by a natural disaster is 'pushing our way on others'?
  
  Your uniformly and irrationally negative attitude toward the US strongly suggests you would be happier living somewhere else. It really does.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Really?

Where are the steps now?

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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  now they look like lovers. Guess who is playing the female role !
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't know, you don't show their feet.
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  OneWhiteSquareposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure Bush wouldn't be the biotch in this duo.
  
  This is a normal practice in Saudi culture to hold hands.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As is bowing in the asian cultures.
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  Anolindeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not true because not all Asians bow.
  
  And men sometimes hold hands in Saudi Arabia. Holding hands is a sign of friendship with no sexual connotations.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
If you say so....I believe your statement to be inaccurate. I'll run it by my Radio Battalion buddies...

Your opinion is your own.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Even Ike bowed....

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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Watch out Rhamson....Sab et al will point you out for bringing up "off topic" statements...

What could the history of Hatian-American relations have to do with today?

It is good to see that you and I understand one another.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know of course he has a h%$#(n for me as I really light up his life with new issues to discuss.
  
  You have to admit he does give more than one liners in explaining his stands more than he has in the past.
  
  Of course it does eventually go back to the name calling and finger pointing as usual. It is progress never the less.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
All veterans do not think alike, fortunately..

And because some get upset over the lack of a flying flag, there are many more who could care less.

All vets/military members do not think alike...thank Jeebus.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's true! Some veterans lie about their service to this country and some veterans aren't veterans at all!
  
  or something like that.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
He did bow....it is common knowledge...like Obama's citizenship...yet there are those who (like the state legislature of Arizona) somehow missed all the information..

Or, rather...intended to miss it to further their own agendas...

As for "apologizing around the world"...I first want you to point to his statements specifically, as opposed to a grand generalization....

Anything Palin has used in a speech needs to be rechecked...

Yet, when the actions of Americans are analyzed worldwide there is a lot to be saddened about.

The examples I bring up, that you routinely call "off-topic" are actually being used as evidence to support my claim..

Like the School of the Americas....which just recently has made itself known through the overthrow of the Honduran government by a graduate, the General in command of that nation's Air Force.

I point to the ill-effects of United Fruit, and its current offspring...

Illegal war waged in Iraq, that set many internationally against the United States... It is funny how we went after Iraq for illegal invasion of Kuwait, but the criticism of the U.S. regarding intervention in Iraq were largely suppressed in the American media.

Not off-topic...but on point.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But no one cares, so seeya!
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You obviously confused him, Mike.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, so confused, who am I?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "when the actions of Americans are analyzed worldwide there is a lot to be saddened about."
  
  Well, ain't you and obama just two peas in a pod? Your mutual disdain for America must make you feel quite close to one another.
  
  And, predictably, all of the pet topics are being shoehorned in regardless of the actual topic of the thread just to serve the lefty ego.
  
  Same old song and dance...over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
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PrettyPantherposted 14 years ago
The Army Times has a good article about it, dated March 15:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/03/g … ag_031510/

Note the conclusion of the article:

The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence.

During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

It was the right decision given the circumstances, a decision that reflects a nuanced understanding of the effect of our military presence in other countries.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Thanks Pretty Panther for also illustrating that those like Sab, who never served in the military, know little about the military, or those did join.

He was trying to tell me, an Armenian-American, what Armenians thought about a comment I made based on what he hypothesized his "Armenian friends" would think...

But when he speaks to a veteran or Armenian with a view he opposes he has no other choice but to jump to hyperbole....imaginary people he doesn't know and has never asked.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it amazes me how many self-described supporters of veterans turn around and diss those veterans who happen to have a different point of view.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mike:
  
  Well the right always loves to identify the enemy.
  
  Well hell it is by far easier to label the enemy first then put them on the defensive of their label rather than belaboring the points and facts. If you can label them, then they are subject to defending a myriad of arguments made at the label and not the issue at hand.
  
  A very popular tactic of the right.
  
  The funny thing is they do deny their label so very quickly when it is convenient.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Kinda like Liberals tossing out the racist claim?
  
  Are you serious, a tactic used by the right?
  
  Glad I have the happy faces.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Bill. I rest my case.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You rest your case on the fact that its a liberal tactic and not one used by the right?
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you not identify a group of people to an issue? The name calling and assumptions based on the name is what puts the issue in the rear. Little is gained by doing this other than a bunch of name calling.
  
  Kind of a simple concept I thought.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I identified (correctly) the group that uses the tactic that you ascribe to conservatives incorrectly!
  
  You're right, it is a simple concept that you could not grasp!
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you thick?
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Bill seems to be as useful as Sab...

Hit with facts Sab insults, selectively answers complex comments with minimalist tone and typically in the form of a one-liner, or just becomes petty...even though he uses his "age" as a basis for his opinions...

Others, like Bill, seem to feel compelled to leave...

Fight or flight....when feeling threatened.

But fact sticks around, and doesn't feel threatened...it is confident and likes to spread itself around...
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said
  "Fight or flight....when feeling threatened."
  
  Sorry Mike, you are about as threatening as a girl scout, actually not quite as threatening as a girl scout.
  
  And whatever "fact" you think you are tossing out is actually speculation in its most silly form.
  
  Fight or flight, you funny!
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, as noted in the article from the Army Times referenced earlier, the flag was taken down in Kuwait during the Gulf War for the exact same reasons they were taken down in Haiti. This is not a new idea invented by Obama. Were you unhappy about it when it happened under Bush I?
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes!
  
  Any other questions?
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you agree that it isn't an invention of Barack Obama, but rather a continuation of a policy implemented many years ago and practiced by Republican administrations as well as Democratic ones.
  
  If that is the case, then the premise of this entire thread, that Obama is offended by the American flag (which is patently ridiculous), has been thoroughly discounted.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't know Obama's intentions, I simply answered the question asked.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  higher-ups ordered it taken down
  
  The link was AWOL PP.
  
  In Kuwait did the president order the flag taken down, or did the commanding officer on the ground?
  
  Same thing in Haiti (which I know nothing about, only what is in the thread?) If the commanding officers that are actually engaged in the Operation felt it best to lower the flag then that is understandable.
  
  If a demagouge in Washington made the decision then that is suspect?
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The link is now fixed. I believe both decisions were made by commanders on the ground, but I don't know that for certain.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down.
  
  I would think this would fall under the Ambassador's sphere of influence.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, let's say one was a military decision and one was an ambassador's decision. It's still the same decision, for the same reason, having the same effect. There is no rational reason to conclude that Obama is offended by the American flag.
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a thread of 122 posts ,so far LOL
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it's ridiculous!
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I do not see how Obama would even be involved in the decision. I do not think it has anything to do with him.
  
  If the Ambassador made that decision then he is the one responsible for our interactions with Haiti. He would know best.
  
  Haiti supplies the US with many resources and there are Americans who make a lot of money off of trade with Haiti. Relations with the country should be a top priority.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You might think it has nothing to do with Obama, but apparently others posting in this thread think otherwise. See the OP.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Arthur.
  
  You are no fan of Obama, which gives you credability when you point out,
  
  "I do not see how Obama would even be involved in the decision. I do not think it has anything to do with him."
  
  The Army Times said (March 7) -
  
  "There is no official prohibition from doing so there or at any of the U.S. operating bases supporting relief operations in Haiti — either by the military or the State Department, officials said. But, said Army Col. Billy Buckner, a spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, “We have just chosen not to do so.”
  
  The rationale is the desire to build strong relationships with locals — a strategy Buckner said many of the task force’s commanders have practiced in Iraq and Afghanistan — and is rooted in the well-documented local anger that erupted in the days immediately following the earthquake over what was perceived as a U.S. effort to give its own citizens priority for evacuation from the crowded, chaotic airport."
  
  Every friggin' day the wingnuts come up with a new outrage to be outraged about because it's sooo outrageous.. And when you punch through the BS, it's generally much smoke and damn little fire. This is a classic example - I read the wingnut hysteria articles that are the source for this. Nobody anywhere EVER made a link between the decision no to fly the flag and a policy decision at the White House. And it's ridiculous to think that such a conversation took place in the Oval Office with everything going on. If you you actually think Obama went out of his way to make a decision NOT to fly the flag in Haiti, it's time to get your meds checked.
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watchyaposted 14 years ago

this is getting better ! LOL
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Whitney05posted 14 years ago
I don't think that he ordered it taken down because of embarrassment or being ashamed. I think there were other motives. I'll admit, I'm not the biggest fan of the man, but one can't jump to conclusions when one is not in office to know every minute detail that is going on.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Note how the argument fragments and tangents when the orginal claims are debunked....

First it was an anti-military thing....now their arguing about jurisdiction.....

Pointless.
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who said it was an anti-military thing? I think you need to reread the original post!
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Sab did....

I think you need to read through the posts and not assume that reponses are directly to the original posting...

Another person chimed in supporting Sab, both deriding me as, evidently, a disgrace to veterans and my fellow Marines.

Can you be more responsible Bill..please?
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  Bill Millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well gee, Mike I have to go back and read the entire thread to find the one post that you claim is there? Think I'll pass and just continue to point out that the OP said nothing about this action being an attack on the military.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
No, Bill....but it just makes you look silly when you make a false remark...

Can you be so smug about being reckless with your responses?

You could have said nothing at all....or asked me to what I was responding...

But to first ask questions and seek knowledge is not something that people like Sab, and evidently you, tend to do...

Speak first, ask questions later?

Sounds like another failed "conservative" policy to me.
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qwarkposted 14 years ago
I read these comments and it becomes obvious why we are in trouble as a nation.
Further, it provides proof to me that we are a nation of naive, immature and irrational thinkers.
Most of you guys are scary!
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. The argument becomes the point rather than the point becomes the argument.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep.
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
I don't give a rat's "relief" hole what country it is. I'd expect any country to show a little confidence in their actions in other parts of the world and hoist their flag. If nothing else it is an initiative to express to the world who you are and what you stand for as far as what you are doing in that location. Come on! Have we fallen so far in our integrity (each nation globally) as to not appreciate or even acknowledge what country you are of?

My God, as we sit here boasting in our own opinions and "universal knowledge" of all life and matter we are totally ignoring those things that matter most in life - life itself! Life requires integrity and charity and actions to advance the cause of freedom and happiness. Anything else is a waste of flesh.

As a veteran I am disgusted with my President and the rape he has visited upon my rights, freedoms and my country as a whole. I don't really care one pea in a pod what other countries think of me and my country as long as the cause is just and true. I've bled for the flag and would gladly do it again. Why? Definitely not for the President, but rather for what the country is supposed to stand for at the core. That core is something so few even want to understand anymore. Understanding and protecting that core requires courage. Courage is severely lacking in this day and age of apathy and "entitlement."

I know my time was just in '90. The children joyed at the mere appearance of our ships. The dark enemy ran like poultry with their heads cut off when we crossed the border into Iraq. Whether you like war or not, sometimes it is a means to a greater good. It's not a pleasant thing to say but it is undeniably true regardless of the scores who, from their comfortable computer seats, will circle the wagons in some self empowerment mode.

I'd admonish you all to stand and acknowledge in reverence our fighting men and women. Why? Because they are not there to protect or advocate the President but rather to protect and maintain the integrity of a nation that has woven a tapestry of people from many nations, fed the hungry in time of severe need, sheltered the homeless when homes were taken, given opportunity to flourish and prosper and liberated the innocent captive - all under the banner of freedom - the banner of the United States of America.

Every country has it's dark chapter, especially ours, but our individual actions and thoughts can be anchored in it's core. That core of the nation is what will justify and sanctify us in the end - if we are willing to observe it.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Goldenpath:
  
  Your statement has a Heinz 57 variety of patriotism mixed with corrupt American or out and out stupid foreign policy.
  
  I thank you for your service to our country and in no way do I see anyone trying to insult our troops for their actions. What I do see is that the "Politicians" are at the heart of the matter and their corrupt and often criminal activities is what is in question.
  
  Reading from your statement I think Dick Chenney would better fit the bill of what you might think our leadership should look like.
  
  Well the US has occupied Haiti with US forces twice and this was a delicate thing for the Haitians to deal with.
  
  The first time was in 1915 and ended in 1934.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta … n_of_Haiti
  
  In 1994 a US occupation force stayed till 2000.
  http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb20 … -f17.shtml
  
  I don't know but if I were a Haitian, the idea of the US military coming to visit would raise a little suspicion looking at their track record of quick retreats. Especially with Iraq and Afghanistan.
  
  Did I mention the oil that is offshore of Haiti?
  http://womblog.de/2010/01/23/oil-in-hai … ccupation/
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Thanks for the giggles, Americans
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Yes....our national discourse provides lots of laughs, domestically and abroad.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't "abroad" where someone like you would be happier?
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qwarkposted 14 years ago
Sanctify? What a buncha BS!
Goldenpath, This is one of the responses that is scary!
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goldenpathposted 14 years ago
Great! Universal enlightenment...
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
If you want to criticize President Obama why not pick something substantive that matters, like reforming/regulating the Wall Street Banksters?

Simon Johnson

MIT Professor and co-author of 13 Bankers
Posted: May 19, 2010 10:22 AM

Finally, the Republicans Come Out to Fight: Where Is the President?

The Senate Republicans are refusing to allow a vote on the Merkley-Levin amendment, which would put a meaningful version of the Volcker Rule into law (splitting off proprietary trading from major banks).

After weeks of dancing around, the Democrats finally have a signature issue on which to fight. Senator Carl Levin frames it exactly right: "It's a sad day when the power of Wall Street can overwhelm the power of the American people in the US Senate."

This is the opportunity that White House claims it has long sought -- to have an intense fight on a financial reform issue that everyone can understand. Paul Volcker made his determination long ago: the big banks are too big and must, in this fashion, be broken up. Senators Merkley and Levin negotiated the precise language of their amendment in good faith. The Republicans have made their answer clear: No way.

Time for President Obama to make the call.

Only the president can break through the daily logjam of information. Only the president can define the issues in the simple, powerful and convincing terms that people can grasp. Only the president can insist -- this is a matter of urgent national priority.

The economic analysis (Volcker), political back-story (Brown-Kaufman and all that involved), and just the right rhetoric are already in place:

"We got into this financial crisis because Wall Street set the rules to benefit itself, and now with an assist from Senate Republicans, they're doing it again," said Merkley. "Obviously the lobbyists are afraid they'll lose this vote, and in typical Wall Street fashion their solution, with help from Senate Republicans, is to rig the result. Main Street is being shut out of this debate. It is time to stop letting Wall Street call the shots -- let this amendment have a vote."

"The long arm of Wall Street reached directly into the Senate chamber today," Levin said. "By blocking us from even debating this amendment, the Republican leadership is carrying Wall Street's water and standing in the way of real reform."

This is a defining issue for the president. Either he takes up the Volcker Rule -- proposed by his administration, to great fanfare (and some skepticism) in January. Or he rolls over -- admitting that Wall Street has won.

We know where Goldman Sachs and its fellow travellers stand on this issue -- adamantly and publicly opposed. And we pointed out here in February which way the Republicans were likely to go.

"But if you don't have the votes in the Senate, what can you do?" This one is easy. You stop the clock and put everything else on hold. The president calls the American people to order and asks them to take a long hard look at the issues and the corporate interests at stake.

And then you start to pound away. Day in and day out, the president and other leading members of his administration need to come out swinging with relentless pursuit of substance on TV talk shows and prime time speeches -- demanding an up-or-down vote on Merkley-Levin.

Admittedly, this may be awkward for leading officials, who have been rather accommodative to financial interests over the past 15 months or so. That's unfortunate (for them), but now entirely water under the bridge. All is forgiven to the policymaker who finally gets it and changes course in the right direction.

Don't move on. Pick up the baseball bat that Paul Volcker has given you. Either that or go down to the most embarrassing, humiliating, and memorable defeat in the history of Wall Street-Washington confrontations. It's the president's call.

This post was originally published on The Baseline Scenario.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-joh … ly%20Brief

If you don't think the banksters need reining in read this piece by Gretchen Mongenson, investors' friend in the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/busin … f=business
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Ralph - that's worthy of an independent post.
  
  Too many people are unaware that what SHOULD be a bipartisan effort to reform regulation has become a VERY partisan effort by the GOP to PREVENT reform.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Just to be silly....

No Sab...I think "abroad" is something you need to find for yourself...

Ai-ya!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But you seem to despise the US so much, wouldn't you be happier somewhere else?
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  SabOh is conservative - do you think he's interested in 'abroad'?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean?
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I mean conservatives don't travel much.
  
  What did you think I meant?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you think conservative people don't travel much?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Trolls tend to just hang out under the bridge.
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waynetposted 14 years ago
At least Obamas good for something...
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
I meant "a broad"....like a woman.

Just a play on words.

Sab...because I am critical of the place I was born in, does that mean I despise this nation?

If I remember correctly, the whole purpose behind the freedom to speak was so that there was no control of discourse...so that there would be no oppression of views...

To want to silence or minimize those, like myself, who express views you don't like is to stand in opposition to our founding principles...

You may not agree with me, but to try to isolate me is quite unAmerican...at least in the spirit of the nation...

Way to go!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "because I am critical of the place I was born in, does that mean I despise this nation?"
  
  No, your own (very) often repeated words make it seem as if you despise this nation. It is really pretty clear.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
The only people I see despising America are you Obama haters on the right.
Every day you slam him, call him anti-American.....how dare you.
Like you know anything about anti-American! Look in the friggin mirror.

Hey military man--who twisted your arm to join the military? Stop asking for accolades. You wanted that career--what do you want, a lifetime supply of ass-kissing?

You people take the cake.

I'm quite sure you all were on Bush's bandwagon while he and chinny chin Cheney were ripping our country to shreds.

Now you come around acting like you know something. You don't. Or you would have seen the destruction your hero's wrought. You didn't.

You are the ones who hate America....just listen to yourselves!
Or is it that you only love America when you have everything your way?
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Round and round it goes, where it stops, please let me know...
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MikeNVposted 14 years ago
Haiti has no real economy. They are entirely dependent upon Foreign Handouts.

================= FACT =======================

Between 1999 and 2004, Haiti’s foreign benefactors—the United States, the European Union, the Inter-American Development Bank and the World Bank—jointly suspended aid disbursements in response to evidence of systematic electoral fraud and the failure of the Haitian government to implement accountability measures. Aid was restored in July 2004 after an interim administration was named. Haiti was scheduled to receive more than US$1 billion in pledged aid for 2005 and 2006. The United States pledged US$230 million in aid through fiscal year 2006.

==============================================================

I suppose $230 million a year prior to the Earthquake relief doesn't buy you the ability to display your flag. Wouldn't want to offend the IMF.

I'm sure the Haitian people standing in line for food and water were not really concerned by the Flag.

So who was offended... the UN? The IMF (Which I'll use loosely here as any Banking Organization whose intention is to take over the Worlds Assets on Behalf of World Bankers).
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just because one has the ability to do something doesn't mean they have to. Are you so dense as to believe everyone doesn't know we already have the power to do as we please?
  
  Why flaunt our power? Do you wish us to appear as the bully some think we are? It those like you who flinch at any supposed affront to our standing in the world which gives us the bad press we deserve.
  
  Why not find something worthwhile to bitch about? A piece of cloth doesn't do it!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that "piece of cloth" means more to some than it does to you.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Mike..I love your "handouts" characterizations...

You write about Haiti in an absolute tone of denial as to how it is that this nation has become what it is.

Haiti should serve as a lesson concerning the ills of capitalism and the evils of European chauvinism..whether it originated in Spain, France, Britain, or their offspring the United States.

Mercantilism is a system of complete dependence....and the people...the common men and women of Haiti never had any voice or choice in the equation...

And after they gained independence they received the same type of treatment that North Korea receives today...similar to what Cuba used to feel, and largely still does at American hands....

You speak about this flag thing as if you are the one looking at this symbol.... This is comparable to Turkey setting up an aid center in Armenia following a tragedy....

Think please.
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60
mikelongposted 14 years ago
Then, based on your words, you largely hate your fellow Americans...

Good connection!
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1. 56
  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely not. That was a very poor attempt, young fella.
  reply report
60
mikelongposted 14 years ago
Hey....I'm just following in the example of my elders...
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A slap in the face to all Americans...Thanks, Obama

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A slap in the face to all Americans...Thanks, Obama

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