The Birth Certificate Dilemma

1. 0

   SirDentposted 13 years ago

   It is time to put it to rest.  When Obama signed up to run, there had to be eligibility requirements met.  All the talk of the birth certificate is just keeping a fire burning that should havce been put out long ago yet here we are two years later still hearing about it.
   
   Drop it and let's move on with our lives people.  If you want to fight over something, at least make it something worth fighting over.
   
   Gun ownership is still in jeopardy, Social Security recipients haven't gotten a raise in two years now, children are still homeless and abuised, widows need help. 
   
   Our government has gotten way too big.  Nearly everyone elected promises favors to certain people to get elected and are unable to help anyone who needs it for having to do so many favors.
   
   This nation, (and the world), is going to hell and all we can talk about is a birth certificate.  How ignorant is that?

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      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Here here!!

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         

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      KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ????  What a hoot.  An attempt at deflection from the hard issues of the upcoming congressional elections?  Just who is talking about Obama's birth certificate and qualifications, etc... in any mainstream manner -- anymore. Do provide current citations of legit and meaningful references.  (My apologies if you have already and I have not read through enough comments here to note your justification for this old BS topic.) (On review, None)  Clearly, IMO, this is a distraction from the real issues at hand, and a feeble and weak and humorous one at that at this point, how ignorant is that?

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         SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I received another email about it from a newsletter.

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            MacForceGroupposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            SirDent,
            I respect your right to comment but totally disagree with your assertion this issue is closed and completely disagree with your analogy that it is answered fully! Your lack of resolve in my opinion means this usurper as won this battle without the proper laws in this country being observed! The  United States Constitution either means something or it means nothing and I refuse to acknowledge your points without a legitiment debate on the issue as is my right under the constitution you have so foolishly advocated to be violated!

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               Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Mac, you're wrong.
               
               "Your lack of resolve in my opinion means this usurper as won this battle without the proper laws in this country being observed!"
               
               Some random citizen would rather discuss more practical issues. This is not proof of anything, let alone proof of wrongdoing on the part of the President. Astonishingly bad logic. Astonishingly.
               
               "The  United States Constitution either means something or it means nothing and I refuse to acknowledge your points without a legitiment debate on the issue as is my right under the constitution you have so foolishly advocated to be violated!"
               Your apparent understanding of the Constitution is even worse than your apparent ability to reason clearly.
               
               You have the right to say whatever nonsense you want to. However, you do not have the right to have what you say be taken seriously by anyone. And I, sir, do not take that nonsense you just wrote even remotely seriously.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We can agree on that. Several of the Tea Party candidates are still worrying about Obama's eligibility, e.g. Rocky Raczkowski who is running for Congress from my district against Gary Peters who is a conservative Dem.

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         KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, please, this belated birth certificate Bull is a blatant effort, and a pathetic one, to deflect the legit arguments of today's political candidates -- my blind, 20 year old little Freddie dog knows that, IMHO.. . . I'm waiting for Fred to bark yes or no, he contemplates his food and my questions for such a long time......ok, give up, I'll go ahead and post this and give you Fred's opinion later, or not, his choice. 

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      rachellrobinsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think it is done as a distraction, if we are arguing about whether or not he was born in this country then we aren't paying attention to the important stuff. You are absolutely correct that there are more important things to be worried about like taking care of people who need help, and watching out for possible terrorist attacks. It drives me absolutely nuts when we have a warning about a possible terrorist attack and it is quickly glossed over but they will stay on this topic for months.
      
      I used to read the Yahoo news, but I get tired of them focusing on Obama's vacactions and just barely talking about actual news. I really believe that the media is trying to keep us distracted off of what is important, whether it is so a certain party can get elected, or if it is just a matter of them not having anything real to report and it's much more fun to watch us argue like a bunch of idiots whether or not he was born here, it doesn't matter any more. Let's move on.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We can agree on that.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Bravo! Sir Dent, Bravo! It's about time someone stepped up and got P.O.ed over this nonsense.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I understand your sentiments, but I for one still have an enquiring mind that wants to know for a fact.  One reason is that the issue has set a precedent for future Elections to bypass the Constitution as I (and many others) interpret it.  And it's sad, too, because this is one thing that should've been easily proveable even to little ol' non-Harvard minds like mine.  The way I see it, the full burden of proof rested in Obama's corner, and he did not prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.  This ain't a murder trial, it's politics that affects each of us in this Nation, and the future of America has been affected by this shadowy situation.  Matter of fact, the results of his Nomination and the Election is one of the reasons this Nation is "going to hell" as you describe it.

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "I for one still have an enquiring mind that wants to know for a fact."
         
         Then look it up on snopes, or factcheck.org, or politifact.org, or one of the other non-partisan mythbusting sites that are out there.  You don't, because if you did, you'd learn that there's nothing to complain about, and you'd have to focus on actual issues.
         
         "The way I see it, the full burden of proof rested in Obama's corner,"
         When he filed the paperwork to run for president, yes it did.
         
         "and he did not prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt."
         When he filed the paperwork to run for president, yes he did.
         
         At this point, however, the burden of proof is on the accuser. If someone can find a problem with Obama's citizenship documents that somehow made it past the folks who processed his running-for-president documentation, then they need to bring it to court. They won't, though, because they have no case. Because they're either merely wrong, or they're deluded wonks who insist on believing something that isn't true in the face of evidence to the contrary, or they're deliberately perpetuating a lie for political gain.
         
         "This ain't a murder trial, it's politics that affects each of us in this Nation, and the future of America has been affected by this shadowy situation."
         It's not a shadowy situation. It's a cut-and-dried situation. There are no shadows, though I'm sure it makes you feel better to think that it's a 'shadowy situation' rather than a case of a clear majority of the American People voting for a guy you don't like.
         
         Also, I'm astonished at your implication that due process can be jettisoned if the stakes are high enough.
         
         I'm less surprised at your implication that due process can be jettisoned if you don't like the guy being accused.

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      livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Don't these tend to contradict each other? Should the government be doing more or less?

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         SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think they contradict one another.  The government should be doing more to help those who need help instead of helping the lobbyists, paying off favors owed for campaign contribuitons etc. . . 
         
         I remember when the medicare tax awas added to our already overtaxed paychecks. 2% more taxes at that time.  I am not sure what the average American pays, percentage wise in taxes.  I will have to look it up and find out.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            "The government should be doing more to help those who need help instead of helping the lobbyists, paying off favors owed for campaign contribuitons etc."
            
            I assume you don't support the Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court last year which opened the floodgates to contributions by Corporations, billionaires like the Koch brothers and labor unions?

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               SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The donations aren't the problem.  It's all the strings attached to them.  If I give money or anything away, then it is given, not loaned out, not expected back later.  This is the big problem.  It is called greed and not only are those who donate greedy, but those they donate to are also greedy.
               
               Elected officials are unable to do the job right because of all the favors they owe to corporations, unions, lobbyists, etc. . .

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   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   I guess I should be relieved to hear there are still people out there debating where President Obama was born.
   I had thought the focus had shifted to Obama being the Anti-Christ, in which case he would not be born, he would be spawned.

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      KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So, who did you hear was actually debating the issue of Obama's birth?  And the anti-Christ sentiment was fairly dual with the birth issues laid to rest -- so, No, that wouldn't be a 'shift'.  I'm curious, who is debating this now of any consequence to current politics?  Perhaps SirDent will provide that information.

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      SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Obama is not the antichrist. Born in the wrong part of the world. Just so you know.

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   habeeposted 13 years ago

   Funny, MM.
   
   I didn't know the ol' birth certificate issue was still alive. I thought the Obama-is-a-Muslim and the Obama-is-on-suicide-watch had replaced it.

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      KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You are always so insightful and succint!!!

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   prayersposted 13 years ago

   There is one thing about the Birth Certificate issue that I found suprising.  Part of the argument included the information that Hawaii issues birth certificates to people who were not born in their State.  Obama aside, I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of a reaction against Hawaii for having a law on the books like that.  Why should any state be willing to issue a birth certificate like that?

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   aguasilverposted 13 years ago

   Who cares?
   
   Looks like he will have been a lame duck President anyway, and from what I see (as a non American) his days are numbered at the ballot box, which is where these things should be decided.
   
   I watch with interest, as do all other non Americans who are affected by what America does.
   
   Just try to get some good policies that will help the world in place next election time!

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   pylos26posted 13 years ago

   And whose newsletter would that be?

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      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      (aims rifle at pylos) hold still you fat little birds, as im going to rustle me up some grub.  heheheheh 
      
      as far as the whole thing with O'Bama's birth certificate...who cares? Seriously, we have way too many other problems with our own country, that we SHOULD be focusing more on instead.

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         pylos26posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Didn't ask you stevie...asked that other blok.

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            Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            oh i know, im just hungry pylos. you know how cats are when it comers to fat little birdies like yourselves.

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   lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

   Wow, sir dent...I thougnt this was going to be another one going on about how illegitimate Obama is....good for you for not doing so!
   
   Everytime there's a nice right-wing post, I almost fall off my chair.
   
   Have to be on constant guard for the attacks.
   
   Nice that this wasn't one!

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   Jim Hunterposted 13 years ago

   I thought it was put to rest.

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   pylos26posted 13 years ago

   hello Jim...do you have your finger in an empty light bulb socket?
   
   seems you are in some stress.  just flip the switch to off and that'll give ya some relief, maybe.

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      Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hawaii was a state when he was born, they've got his certificate. Case Closed.

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    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    If I am reading your post correctly, Brenda, you are saying that although this is not a court of law, you are applying the standard of proof from our legal system.
    You say, "The way I see it, the full burden of proof rested in Obama's corner, and he did not prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt."
    Except that the burden of proof falls to the prosecution, not the defense... even though this is not, as you say, a murder trial.
    Not murder, but is a character assassination.

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    Brenda put the Fox News (or some subsidiary or related source) blinders down to join the rest of the world here....
    
    I understand the fear and insecurity you feel Brenda, given that you evidently have not Inquired enough to find that: 1) Obama's presidency is Constitutionally legitimate and 2) the problems our nation is facing has not been created in one and three quarter years.
    
    Returning "conservatives" to Congress (from whatever party they claim) will ensure the continuance of NAFTA and similar policies/philosophies, enable the further eroding of the National Labor Relations Board, repress the legal and social acceptance of LGBT into the fold of human/American rights, and pursue numerous other harmful efforts....
    
    There is too much at stake to waste brains and energy....and one does not need a Harvard mind.....

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       Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What you call harmless I call harmful.  As does the majority, though many are too fearful to speak up about it.

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          Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          "What you call harmless I call harmful." And you're wrong about that.
          
          "As does the majority, though many are too fearful to speak up about it."
          Yes, so fearful that most of us voted for the guy so all that 'harmful' stuff could happen. Heh. Still wrong, but at least you're consistently wrong.

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             Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Do you think "most of us" will vote for him again.
             
             I don't mean the hubpages us.

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                Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Don't know yet. Whether I vote for him or not in 2012 will depend on what happens in 2011.

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    Jim Hunterposted 13 years ago

    The guy was born in a U.S. State and is a U.S. citizen.
    
    End of story on that.
    
    But he is still a pathetic leader and tries his hardest to divide us as a nation.
    
    That is his only accomplishment.

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       jonhbeamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Couldn't have said it better.

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          Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          But....
          
          He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and won.
          
          However....
          
          After they nominated this goon http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Nobel-P … lliams.htm you can't really take the Nobel committee serious.

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             Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Anyone can nominate someone for a Nobel prize. Anyone.

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                Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Apparently.
                
                These two clowns were nominated.

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       Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "The guy was born in a U.S. State and is a U.S. citizen.
       
       End of story on that."
       
       Indeed.
       
       "But he is still a pathetic leader and tries his hardest to divide us as a nation."
       I disagree, but that's cool. People of goodwill can disagree about what's a good idea and what's a bad idea.
       
       "That is his only accomplishment."
       This is factually incorrect.

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          MacForceGroupposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Jeff,
          Your comment reflects your decision to accept the unacceptable and therefore there is no end to thios story until the laws are met! For you have seemingly decided to become an expert on the issue of what an american citizen is but what about the natural born citizen status that is required in the United States Constitution in order to become the president of the United States? There is a diference in the constitution and it will not be changed because you are tired of hearing about all the fuss of tyranny in the United States! Please look up the word Taqiyya in the muslim dictionary, or the quran for the meaning of the word then let's talk! go to the dilemianews.com website or youtube and listen in your own words what obama says about his birth! but turn up the volume really high!

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             Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             "Your comment reflects your decision to accept the unacceptable"
             My comment reflects no such thing.
             
             "therefore there is no end to thios story until the laws are met!"
             The laws are met. End of story. Next.
             
             "For you have seemingly decided to become an expert on the issue of what an american citizen is"
             Um, what? There's no need to be an expert to know what an American Citizen is. It's clearly spelled out in the law.
             
             "what about the natural born citizen status that is required in the United States Constitution in order to become the president of the United States?"
             What about it? Is there some legitimate reason to believe that one of the presidents was not a natural born citizen of the United States?
             
             "There is a diference in the constitution and it will not be changed because you are tired of hearing about all the fuss of tyranny in the United States!"
             Um, what the aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks are you even talking about? Your post is almost word-salad.
             
             "Please look up the word Taqiyya in the muslim dictionary, or the quran for the meaning of the word then let's talk!"
             Is there a Constitutional question about what the word Taqiyya means? And what in the world is the "Muslim dictionary?" Muslim isn't a language. Your ignorance is showing. (Even more than it already was.)

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    Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago

    My son attended a lecture on American Politics at Canterbury University ,New Zealand and is of the understanding that it is the role of the Supreme Court prior to any/all canditates running for office to check, approve a canditates citzenship, re eligibility etc.
    
    So if those facts are correct, people have been whining about nonsense.

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       Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Your facts are not correct.
       
       But its ok.

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          Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry ,
          Congress and /or the President?

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    I love how people, some here even, try to blame Obama for "dividing the nation"....
    
    I'm still trying to figure out when this "united" period existed...
    
    There has yet to be a single point in time where all "Americans" were on the same page or of the same mind... 
    
    Divisiveness always increases alongside economic downturn.....and our nation was in the economic doldrums back when Bush Jr was in office.... We became more divided over the Iraq war....which has been overwhelmingly been proven to have been based on lies from the GOP and their "think tanks".
    
    If someone wishes to forward the notion that we have somehow become divided over the course of a year and three quarters, (as opposed to the result of "trickle down" from previous administrations), then he or she has a very poor understanding of this nation.....and evidently believes that we are far more fragile than we really are...

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    "Please look up the word Taqiyya in the muslim dictionary"
    
    The last time I checked, Muslim is not a language....
    
    Mac, your views are jaded. There is no simpler way to express myself.
    
    As for your views regardin g the "hidden Muslims", you (Mac) show a near infantile understanding of Islam and its history...
    
    I think that you should learn about Al Andalus, and come to understand the relationship between Western Christians (Catholic or Protestant) and their Muslim neighbors....
    
    While Muslim political leadership enabled Christians and Jews to practice their faiths and to prosper, the "Reconquista" Chrisians were not so tolerant.....either to Jews or Muslims...
    
    Why don't you look at how these two populations were treated, even after they were forced to convert to Christianity (not to mention those who were forced to leave their country)..
    
    Mac, ill-used and reckless minds like yours can be dangerous to the common good.....  You have functioning dura and pia matter.....use it wisely.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think Mac's mind is "ill-used and reckless" at all.
       And your charge of it being potentially "dangerous to the common good" is quite uncalled-for, mikelong.

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    Brenda.....this is coming from you...of all people..
    
    I will identify recklessness where I see it...
    
    Of course, you probably agree with Mac's views, which is behind your purpose for commenting at all (aside to avoid directly responding to the post I left for you specifically...ducking and dodging like that, you should run for political office).
    
    The fact that you can't see through Mac's poorly conceived message demonstrates that your knowledge base isn't much better than his.....
    
    But you've already proven that repeatedly here and in other posts...
    
    From "Obama is a secret Muslim" to "Obama's Presidency is not Constitutionally valid/he is a foreignor" to even "Obama has divided this nation/caused our national woes".....all of these are reckless and dangerous....especially in a forum with no opposing viewpoints....

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       Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I'm NOT surprised at your scolding of me, insinuating that I should only respond to specific posts.
       
       But here ya go----easy, quick response to that post you refer to------
       
       The definition of "natural born citizen" plus its relation to American patriotism is what's unclear to many people.  Apparently to you also.

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          Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          "The definition of "natural born citizen" plus its relation to American patriotism is what's unclear to many people."
          
          Yes, indeed it is. So many people seem to believe that someone who escaped an oppressive regime, came to this country as a refugee seeking political asylum, took the necessary classes and filed the byzantine paperwork necessary to sit the exam for citizenship, passed it, and proudly stood to swear his loyalty to his adopted country, is by definition less patriotic than someone who was merely born here.
          
          Crazy, right?
          
          But the distinction is moot. We haven't yet had anyone who wasn't a natural born citizen elected to the presidency, no matter how much you might like for it to be the case.

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    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    Yes.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago

    The only natural born would be the Native American Indian, Im guessing though there are not too many here.
    
    
    
    Or do you mean only those born in America after the Declaration of Independance was signed? because before then America hardly had any Natural born.
    
    It is after all built from Immigrants

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       Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "The only natural born would be the Native American Indian"
       
       
       That doesn't really make a lot of sense. I believe the reference was to the political entity known as the United States of America, not to the landmass, which of course has been around a lot longer than our Native American brothers have been here.

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          Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well Im sure it makes alot of sense if your a Native American ,but oh well...

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    You were scolding me Brenda...... I was just making some observations....
    
    "Natural born citizen" isn't something unclear to me... If you want to project your own confusion, so be it....
    
    I have written an article about the poor-misguided birthers, perhaps you should read it....

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    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    But don't the corporations,unions, lobbyists, etc. represent the average American? If they are not representing us to our elected representative, who is?

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       SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Very few respresentatives actually represent the people of the United States anymore.  Labor unions for the most part have become dens of theives, corporations represent the board of directors and their golden umbrellas.
       
       Big business runs this nation anymore.  Big business should pay all the taxes.  But it is up to the little guys to take care of big business.
       
       We are now in a time that when a person gets injured or gets sick, on the job, they are thrown away ASAP just like I would throw away a broken screwwdriver.
       
       Do you really think the big corporations care for the little people?

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       Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Are you kidding? Unions have a claim to being an intermediate representative of their members and issues important to workers because they are elected by their members. But the Corporations can't make the same claim. And of course nobody elected the Koch brothers or Rupert Murdoch.

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    couturepopcafeposted 13 years ago

    It's hysterical that the post is about putting something to rest when actually all it does is keep it alive.  Hypocritical?  or Egotistical?

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       SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       So you add another comment to give it a few more minutes of life?  I opened the thread because I received yet another email about the Birth Certificate.  I was tired of hearing about it even before that and even more tired of it now.
       
       In fact, I am sick and tired of politics altogether. It seems for the last 4 years that is all I have heard about and it is going on right now.  Mudslinging, trying to get the upper hand on their opponents.
       
       I think it's time to rebel against them.  Most politicians were raised to be politicians.  They, for the most part, haven't lived in the real world.  They have been groomed from birth to lead.  How can a person be a leader, if they have never followed?

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