http://hotair.com/archives/2011/03/22/f … w-capital/
Yeah sure the unions are for working Americans! No! They are the new radicals the subversives that wish to destroy this nation rather than give up on their grip of the American tax payers' purse! These people are as evil as their socialist democrat servants!
Labor unions were born out of necessity. Funny you should bring this up on the centennial of the Triangle company disaster. Here's a Fox news take on the story:
"It was a fire that would change America’s labor laws and worker safety standards forever.
It would electrify a fledgling labor movement, galvanizing women workers into pushing forward the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, which fought to stop sweatshop worker abuses, child labor abuses and countless other labor infractions -- labor infractions that continue at oil rigs and coal and other mines around the world."
Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011 … z1HS2w2ow3
I'm not going to deny the role unions played in defining the modern day workplace. I'm pointing out here that is no longer their function. They see their power and influence waning and they refuse to accept it. They are willing to throw the nation into chaos and inflict an economic disaster just to hold onto power!
There were no garment unions before the Triangle Company disaster. After the union came into its' own, conditions and wages improved.
So what's the logic here -- why would things not degenerate back to the sweatshop conditions of the past if the unions are destroyed?
Are Corporations so moral nowadays that their first priority is protecting the workforce and not profits? What's changed since 1911?
So you're suggesting that laws passed to implement fire codes will be forced off the books by the rich robber barons and their government servants? Come on get real! Besides I don't think there are any garments made in America anymore thanks in part to unions!
Working conditions & wages wouldn't degrade with no unions? Well, Gov. Walker and Koch seem to think they will (to Koch's benefit), otherwise why work so hard to get strip the unions after they've acceded to the Gov's monetary demands?
There are still some garments made here but most mfgrs. have moved to cheap labor countries -- where unions aren't a problem.
There should be an import duty on their products equal to the difference in wages.
Wages will decline when demand for labor is less than the supply. Want to see more of the good unions do:
http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/03/2 … nt=Twitter
Detroit is becoming a ghost town as people leave in search of jobs with unemployment above the national average and of course we know the condition of the auto manufacturers there.
Detroit is becoming a ghost town for many reasons, including poor leadership at the city-level and decades of short-sighted preferential treatment of the Auto Industry at the expense of pretty much every other industry at the state level. The last governor did her best to get other industries to come to Michigan, and some green energy startups and the film industry have come here. Alas, the new guy is doing his best to undo that good work.
Blaming the unions is at best a simplistic conclusion.
Surely you aren't going to claim the unions aren't a factor what so ever! I'll concede poor leadership played a part... let's see hasn't there been nothing bu democrat mayors for like the last 50 years? Yeah... that explains it!
"Surely you aren't going to claim the unions aren't a factor what so ever!"
I haven't, and I don't. The auto companies had a hard time competing with their foreign counterparts, in part because they were pressured by the unions to provide healthcare for the workers and their families. Of course, companies like Toyota and BMW didn't have to do that--not because their workers weren't unionized but because their workers got their healthcare from their government. Starting in 1997 (I think) more cars were built in Ontario, Canada than in Michigan. And it's not because Ontario's auto workers aren't unionized (they have the CAW). It's because Canadian employers don't have to worry about their employees' healthcare.
So sure, unions were a factor. One of many, and not the biggest. Holding up one factor and blaming only it is, as I said, pretty simplistic.
As for the mayors all being Democrats, that's absolutely true, but all Democrats (like all Republicans) aren't created equal. Coleman Young's administration was rotten to the core, and that's what wrecked the inner city. In spite of relative prosperity in Michigan throughout the 70s and 80s, Detroit experienced steady decline. Mayor Archer started the city on an upward trend, but unfortunately he left for a less demanding though better paid job at the American Bar association. Kwame Kilpatrick was cut from Coleman Young's cloth, and his administration was an embarrassment to the city. I mean, he was a bad mayor, and he was a worse crook. I'm glad he's in jail.
Mayor Bing is starting to turn the city around, in spite of the housing crisis and the worst efforts of the new autocratic governor. I hope he's able to bring Detroit back from the brink of death. We'll see.
I think if you look at all the major cities across the country that are in extreme financial trouble you'll find they all have had decades of democrat rule... things that make you go hmmmm... or should!
Lady, if you don't work 16 hours a day you can thank unions. Or maybe you have never worked. Even companies that don't have union have employee benefits like no child labor and an 8 hour workweek which the Republicans want to subvert.
For the link and for (unbeknownst to you) stopping me from posting a thread attempting to see if the Democrat-backed Unions might actually have a legitimate side in all the controversy, that maybe they've misunderstood what the "Right to Work" is and that there might be room for a compromise on both sides. I even thought, lo and behold, that there might be some REPUBLICANS in the Unions who would speak out and show some common sense on the whole issue.
But it's apparent from the video that the Left has no intention of considering anybody's opinion or situation except their own. Or if anyone does at all, they're so overpowered by the Democrats' force-feeding them that they won't speak up. Their agenda is in full swing and looks like they'll stop at nothing to get what they want. If that weren't true, they wouldn't even listen (and especially laugh about) to the stuff that man put in his speech. I'm sad about that.
Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
If the Unions start to disappear so will the hard fought gains made over generations. Look forward to further denudation of if not the disappearance of the middle class.
Unions have been dissappearing for some time. Only about 12% of American workers are union members.
When it goes to zero your children will be work slaves.
But if wages actually went to zero, that's when all the workers would suddenly discover that they are free.
Without being offered wages, most people would not work for others. They would have to start working for themselves. They could then discover their true strengths and the possibility of independence.
Yeah sure... we'll all become indentured servants working the corporate fields living on insects and the occasional rat we can corner in our sleeping quarters... get real!
What is the right's problem?
If you don't want to join a union, don't.
If you don't want to have an abortion, don't.
Why are you trying to take these choices away from the rest of us?
Do you want to control everything we do, say, think and feel?
What is it you want?
Hugh, Barry & LMC get the prize. You recognize and said what the wingnuts don't want the average non-union worker to consider. The EXISTENCE of the unions is a gun to the head of employers.
Let's look at a hypothetical situation. Suppose your employer decides to no longer offer employer subsidized health care. Given the high rate of unemployment, your employer also hits non-management workers with a 10% pay cut. You know the company is making record profits. One by one, employees so mistreated might find other work. Or not. It's a tough labor market.
As long as employees CAN organize, vote to join a union, and strike for fair wages, employers won't rip off their employees to a degree that those workers WILL organize. Every employee who gets paid vacation and group health insurance, sick time, or profit sharing needs to thank a union EVEN IF THEY ARE NON-UNION. Because those benefits will evaporate if you loose the right to organize.
Ask yourself - what's the agenda of conservatives out to destroy unions?
Lol! All unions do is drive companies off shore or to mexico like when the auto companies got bailed out took that money and expanded in mexico! When unions aren't chasing companies out of America they're making them go bankrupt! Unions have actually become the enemy of the working class and of America.
Companies go to countries like Mexico because those countries don't have the employee rights unions fought so hard for here. It means they can treat their employees like slaves and underpay them.
We should be trying to help Mexico set up unions of its own, not squash our own rights.
Right! We should subvert the sovereignty of other countries and impose our values and our law upon them... I'm sure they wont mind one bit! Lol!
What, President Polk didn't take it far enough for you?
"Detroit is becoming a ghost town as people leave in search of jobs with unemployment above the national average and of course we know the condition of the auto manufacturers there."
The U.S. automakers had no problem paying high wages and benefits to the autoworkers until they began producing junk which they thought their customers would have to accept.
The big losers were the autoworkers who lost jobs and we customers who no longer had well-made, well-designed domestic cars to purchase. The auto execs did just fine -- remember "Roger and Me?"
Indeed. The Big Three had a quality problem in the 70s and early 80s and did a terrible job overcoming that image in the late 80s and 90s.
Even in the 00s, they had some of the same problems. Remember the Ford 500? It did poorly on the market because it was a blah car. So what did Ford do? They changed the grille and called it the new Taurus. Rather than build the cars Americans wanted, they tried to tick Americans into wanting what Ford wanted to build.
Thankfully, the following year, Ford actually redesigned the Taur--er, 500-- and the next Taurus was actually a good car that people wanted to drive.
"pregnant women need to be regulated & banks and corporations don't need to be regulated"-teabaggers
You obviously do not have a clue as to what the Tea Party is really about. You have your own warped view that is not open to any reality. The Tea Party is truly the grass roots of this country, not the superficial facade that the two main parties are. Yeah, they have their share of extremists, just like any other political entity. That is not who they are though. They are people that are tired of government taking more and more and giving to cronies and ripoff artists. Tired of the government spending much more than it takes in and passing it on to those that produce and handing out more to those that don't or won't. The real Tea Party doesn't care what you do with your body as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others. Doesn't care what you do in your bedroom with who, as long as the shade is pulled. Doesn't want to subsidize corporations, unions, other countries or farmers.
I know you think you are being humorous with your teabagger label, but actually tea is all natural and good for you.
The basic idea behind the Tea Party is derived from the event in Boston Harbor that reinforced the thought that "we're tired of being ripped off and we are not going to take it anymore".
Did you know that Ghandi back in the 1930's walked 200 miles to protest a Britsh tax on salt? Perhaps he was a 'saltbagger"!
So, the TP is pro-choice, pro gay-marriage, and pro-collective bargaining? IF so, than OK--I am talking about the Baggers, not you.
TP "Doesn't want to subsidize corporations"....
Are you sure about that? Every single Repub voted to keep the oil subsidies...and I think the TP registers as Republican.
The Baggers sent tea-bags to Democrats in Congress, not Republicans. Obviously, they have a bias against one party...the Dems.
A big part of the TP is over 60...which means they DO take from the gvt.
They are subsidized by the workers of today...errr, that would include me.
My impression is that the Tea Party is not a monolithic entity. Rather, it is composed of people with various views and goals. Maybe the single biggest threads are libertarian Constitutional originalism and balance the budget even though doing so prematurely is likely to send us into another recession. And Constitutional originalism in its extreme form is a wildly radical viewpoint because it ignores 300 years of American history and development of the government agencies and regulations to meet demonstrable needs of the country and the people. The clock isn't going to be turned back very far, in my opinion.
Other threads of the Tea Party are even less pleasant to behold--nativism, racism, anti-women's rights, anti-gay rights, anti-unions, "right to carry fantics" etc.
"They are people that are tired of government taking more and more and giving to cronies and ripoff artists....The real Tea Party .... Doesn't want to subsidize corporations, unions, other countries or farmers."
And that's why they murmured in an annoyed tone when Wall Street handed out federally funded mega-bonuses to its execs but screamed blue murder at the idea that poor people should be able to afford to go to the doctor.
But it works for the simple-minded.
That's who they bank on.
Don't think past your hand on that dollar bill that can go to ME!!
And yes, it is a CRIME what the new R gvr in MI is doing!
Like all the new R gvr's.
They all got the memo: "Destroy Obama, even if you take America with you."
The level of paranoia that you work on is one never before seen by human eyes, LMC.
Do you actually, genuinely believe this stuff or are you just looking to keep things interesting?
No, I truly believe it.
No one wanted to believe Hitler or Stalin either, until they were on those trains headed for the camps....
What I see in them is total disregard for humanity.
You actually believe the GOP wants to destroy America? And remind me again what they have to gain by this?
(the fact that I'm asking will tell you just how bored I am)
They are globalists...they don't keep their money here, don't pay taxes here, don't keep their businesses here, don't have any loyalty to here..
They exploit America for their own gain,nothing more.
Their kids don't die in our wars, their wives don't go without healthcare.
Country Club Republicans I'm talking about...the ones who put tax cuts for their wealthy friends above all else; hold people HOSTAGE for it!!
Our gvt is FULL fo them...especially now. they are Koch-S**kers
Wow. Those are some mighty big conclusions you're drawing there, LMC. As a lifelong conservative, I have yet to meet any of these people. I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd.
If "their kids" don't die in "our wars", then explain to me why the military vote is overwhelmingly Republican in every election?
Remind me again how you are held hostage by a rich person's tax breaks? I mean, the money is theirs, not yours (yes, I know you believe you are entitled to a portion of it, but join me in a little reality for a moment).
You draw a lot of conclusions yourself Richie. Like I "take your money"--how much of "your" money do I want......ASSUME much? Constantly? Like I'm a lazy no-good bum, is that it?
And I stand by that person's statement!
Any one who cries about the deficit, yet ADDS to it for pleasure and amusement...are you REALLY telling me Russshhhhh can't do with 57 mil instead of 59?
You would rather slash day-care funding so poor moms lose their kids.
The Uber Rich have had quite a field day here, and the middle class has had to suffer for their indolence. Time they pay up.
And as far as Repubs and the military? watch this:
Unfortunately I'm not interested in why these people chose not to serve. We have a VOLUNTEER military, the overwhelming majority of which (get ready) votes Republican.....
I don't know why..the Chickenhawks run WILD there.
So, now how about my other question:
"are you REALLY telling me Russshhhhh can't do with 57 mil instead of 59?
You would rather slash day-care funding so poor moms lose their kids."
BECAUSE---they are telling us we are broke *sob* *sob* we have no money *sob* *sob*....
But, they gave Ubers a big hand-out, AND they gave Big Oil a big hand-out!!
Can't be TOO broke, now can we?
Lady, you are such a hypocrite and liar..
In at least two other threads you stalk about how you have nothing against unions....
And yet this is who you really are....
There is no reasoning with irrationality, dishonesty, and "rah rah-wave my team's flag" mentality...and you are this poster-child..
Ooooo, now you will try to get me banned from the forums again because I call it as it is...
Your ignorance of worker organization is severely lacking, which is why your ideas are so flawed, reckless, and ridiculous...
Research this American nation you attempt to display so much knowledge of.....and look to the variety of craft guilds and other associations predating any thoughts of "independence".....
But, I expect you to not do any of this...
I expect you to continue with your support of redlining....which you mentioned in another thread...
(See folks, she keeps putting out new threads to avoid the debunked others spread throughout the political forum)
You support the free ability of banks to deny capital to communities based of ethnicity and socio-economic hardship.....spreading inequality and tensions... You support the freedom of ceo and executive pay to skyrocket while they hold wages for their workers stagnant....
But those men and women who live in those communities, who work at jobs that deny organization, freedom of speech, or representation to their employees should have the freedom to fail....for very few rise up from places like MacArthur Park in Downtown Los Angeles, or the City of Commerce, just to the south of East L.A.
All these areas have been redlined in the past....and it still is happening in other forms today...
But Lady, at least those of her ilk, will blame these people for their own problems...she will likely point to the writings of Samuel Huntington.....but close her eyes to the Celis Huntington and his works (without whom Mr. Samuel, I'd wager, would would have ever reached his ultimate status and influence in life).
Come, walk these streets with me, Lady...I do it often... Breathe the air....Learn about the individuals living in these communities and learn of the jobs they do....at what cost...for what meager price...
Your problem is you read into my posts things that aren't there and mischaracterise my position to suit your own warped liberal views. Where did I ever say I support the denial of anything based on ethnicity? That my friend is a lie meant to denigrate me and to distract from the truth.
As far as the ghettoes you would have us believe that those people are there through no fault of their own! Sure kids are born into them but they are afforded the opportunity to get out. No one forces them into drug use or crime. No one forces their fathers to walk out on them or to impregnate multiple women and walk away from the responsibility no one makes them drop out. You know life isn't just what happens to you, its how you handle what happens to you. You can give up and play the victim and blame your color or injustice or your poverty and whine that your people came from slaves or you could do something about it! Many have and many will take the former course and dull their pain.
"Sure kids are born into them but they are afforded the opportunity to get out. No one forces them into drug use or crime. "
Spoken like someone with heaps of unearned privilege.
What nonsense! The list of famous and successful black people that came from the ghetto is practically infinite! Why is it so many were able to do what even privleged whites can't do? Because they never accepted others expectations of them and they made a conscious decision to excell. So please don't give me that exploited descriniated black salve white privlege argument. Equal rights is the law of the land and there will always be people that hate you that's no excuse for your status!
Lady love: you are an out and out racist and I want to know why you felt a need to disrespect all African Americans a few hours ago?
Really? How so? I did no such thing! Read and LEARN!
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomasso … page/full/
I really believe you have lost your mind. You can't say what you said and then act like you didn't disrespect All African Americans today even the ones you admired in your post just now. I want an apology from you. Did you read my hub on American Slavery. Read it, comment on it, and apologize for your insult to me and all African American.
Please copy and paste what you percieve as my " insult" of blacks. I really have no idea what you're talking about. Then read the link I put in my last reply.
Copy and paste??? You said it here on this thread 4 hour ago. Read it, you don,t need a copy
I know what I wrote Junko I just don't see any insult there and if you can't quote me then maybe there is no insult and you're just a whining baby screaming for attention.
Lady Love: You are a racist dog, a sad excuse for a human being and a woman. You insulted the African American man, woman, and their children. Now you are playing too stupid to know what you said what insulting. You are a disgrace to your race and to womanhood. You don't have to own what you write but I got you right you low down dirty cowardly racist. I can't make you woman up but I will shine a light on you and pray for your soul, you witch. No disrespect and I didn't mean this post as an insult to you.
You're about as mean as they come. You insult me and attack me daily and I take it. You call me a racist and claim I insulted you and your race but you can't show me the quote that hurt your feelings? You're a liar and a phony and a hypocrite! Your the racist here and woman hater, not to mention an American hating socialist! !
Don't run away again Woman Up! If anybody see Lady Love out there tell her to come and stand on what she said or apologize
"What nonsense! The list of famous and successful black people that came from the ghetto is practically infinite!"
Start listing them, then. I'm sure you won't run out. By the way, I never mentioned race. I mentioned privilege. You're the one who brought up race.
"So please don't give me that exploited descriniated black salve white privlege argument."
I know, you don't like to hear the truth. But whether you like to hear it or not, it's still the truth. White privilege exists. Discrimination against black people still happens. Here's some evidence of white privilege in action: the white bike thief gets the benefit of the doubt; nobody tries to stop him. The black bike thief, on the other hand gets yelled at, the cops get called, etc.
Privilege isn't just dining on pheasant under glass and vacationing on your yacht. It's not having to worry about thousands of little things that the un-privileged do worry about. For example, as a white guy, I don't have to be afraid that my kids will get shot because they didn't obey the cop quickly enough. I never have to be worried about getting pulled over merely because I'm driving in the 'wrong' part of town. I don't have to worry about being followed by store security for no reason. I don't have to worry about people assuming I only got my job because of a quota system. I don't have to worry about whether a cab will stop if I try to hail it. I don't have to worry about anyone trying to challenge my right to vote on election day. I don't have to worry about people being scared of me when I walk into their place of business after sundown. That's a tiny slice of what it means to be privileged.
It is common courtesy in discussions like these that the person who makes an assertion as fact must provide evidence if asked. After all, it is YOUR assertion, not Jeff's. Why should Jeff waste his time looking for proof of something that you say?
Then I call BS. If "the list of famous and successful black people who came from the ghetto is", as you claim, "practically infinite," then you should be able to rattle off a really long list without thinking about it too hard. If you don't, I have to assume it's because you can't. And if you can't, it's because it just ain't so.
White privilege exists. It's the other side of racism. This is true, whether you believe in it or not. It's not your fault, so please don't think I'm trying to make you feel guilty about something some stranger did to some other stranger long before you were born. That would be silly and futile.
At the same time, though, it is true that you (and I, and every other white person) benefits from the white privilege put into place by those strangers before we were born. We may not be rich and famous, but we can still safely assume that we'll get decent service when we walk into a restaurant or store pretty much anywhere in the country. That's privilege. You can acknowledge it, or you can pretend that it doesn't exist.
You call BS? So you're saying there are no sucessful blacks from the ghetto? And if I list some then what will you say? Will you agree with my point that black, white, or purple, rich or poor, people from all walks of life constantly rise above adversity to achieve success? Of course you wont! That flies in the face of liberalism so it simply cannot be so! And you will make this claim even though the evidence to the contrary is right before your eyes and probably right in your work place.
I'm not going to claim racism, prejudice, and hate doesn't exist in America or everywhere else around the globe heck just look at how I'm treated here, I'm not naive, but none of that is an excuse for lack of achievement nor is so called white privilege a guarantee for success, there's plenty of white drunks and drug addicts living on ghetto streets.
"So you're saying there are no sucessful blacks from the ghetto?"
No, I'm saying that the list is far from "infinite." There's a difference, and it's pretty big.
"And if I list some then what will you say?"
That you need to list a heck of a lot more than 'some' for the list to be 'practically infinite.'
"Will you agree with my point that black, white, or purple, rich or poor, people from all walks of life constantly rise above adversity to achieve success?"
Of course I won't.
"Of course you wont! "
Well, you're right on one count, anyway.
"That flies in the face of liberalism so it simply cannot be so!"
Well, you got my response correct, but your reason for it is wrong. The reason that I disagree is because it ain't so, regardless of whether it "flies in the face of liberalism."
"And you will make this claim even though the evidence to the contrary is right before your eyes and probably right in your work place."
Evidence to the contrary? Really? When "my workplace" is almost entirely populated by white folks? The same has been true of the last three companies I've worked for. Do some poor people claw their way out of poverty? Yes, some do. But they are the exception, not the rule. Do some poor black people overcome both their poverty and the barriers to them overcoming it? Yes, of course some do. But they are the exception, not the rule.
"I'm not going to claim racism, prejudice, and hate doesn't exist in America or everywhere else around the globe heck just look at how I'm treated here,"
The way people treat you hear is solely a result of your own words, not because of where you were born, who your parents were, or how much money you have (or don't have). Climb down from the cross.
"none of that is an excuse for lack of achievement"
Really? Again, spoken like someone with heaps of unearned privilege. You know what being poor is? "Being poor is discovering that that letter from Duke University, naming you as one of three advanced students in your class invited to test out of HS early into their scholarship program, is just so much firestarter because the $300 it costs to take the test may as well be $3 million." Not an excuse for a lack of achievement, but a reason for it. There’s a difference, and again, it’s pretty big.
"nor is so called white privilege a guarantee for success,"
A guarantee of success? Nope. But. White people can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that they will not be followed or harassed, can be sure that their children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race, can count on their skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability, can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, can find ways to be more or less protected from any negative consequences of any of these choices, and can be sure that if they need legal or medical help, their race will not work against them.
"there's plenty of white drunks and drug addicts living on ghetto streets."
Of course there are, because poverty isn't exactly a breeze to overcome.
Lol! Well if nothing else you have a sense of humor! Anyway that's why I didn't bother generating a list because no matter how many people I put on that list or how many examples I provide they would never be "infinite" which is the hyperbole you would cling to to dispute what is undeniable fact.
"if nothing else you have a sense of humor! "
Thanks for noticing.
If the list were really "practically infinite," as you claimed, you would have been able to rattle off a list of somewhere between 20 and 30 without relying on Google. But you couldn't.
"which is the hyperbole you would cling to to dispute what is undeniable fact."
I don't need to "cling to hyperbole" to dispute what is anything but "undeniable fact."
Your claim is based on cherry-picked success stories and willful blindness to the actual fact that rising up out of poverty isn't easy, that most people born into poverty don't rise up out of it (or if they do, they don't rise all that far from it), and it's even less easy if you're not an able-bodied straight white guy. But if it makes you feel better to think that you don't benefit from white privilege (and you do, unless your profile pic isn't you), you go right ahead and pretend that as black woman you would have gotten the job just as easily, would have gotten the loan just as quickly, would have been promoted just as rapidly, etc.
No my claim us from experience. I don't have to cherry pick because I see it all around me. Maybe I have more faith in the human spirit. Maybe its because I've seen ordinary people do extrodinary things. People in poverty have 2 choices, accept it as your fate or seek to change it and recognize that you have the ability to do so. Take Charles Payne for example. Everything in his life was fine until his father left. He ended up living with his mother in harlem dirt poor. But he always had a dream to be a business man and he carried a briefcse to school. He was ridiculed and beaten by his peers because he "talked white". He joined the air force to get the money to go to college. Now he's a big time investor analyst and Fox Business contrbutor, a very rich man!
You'll claim that's cherry picking but there are countless such stories most not so dramatic some as simple as just retiring to school for a ged diploma and getting a decent enough job to support themselves.
"No my claim us from experience. "
Oh, you were born poor, and rose up out of poverty?
"People in poverty have 2 choices, accept it as your fate or seek to change it and recognize that you have the ability to do so."
So if they have the foolishness to get sick, well, they'd better just get a better hold on them bootstraps?
Yes, some people born into poverty work their way into a more comfortable, even a prosperous, existence. I do not deny that. But I also accept that it's not merely a case of 'deciding' to stop being poor. For many if not most of those who worked their way out of poverty, one bad case of the flu, one traffic accident, one unforseen catastrophe would have stopped them in their tracks, or delayed their rise by years.
But it's a lot easier to blame the poor for their poverty and pretend that we don't benefit from unearned privilege.
Lots of people have setbacks most recover. I think the examples you cite are more unusal and not the norm... you're reaching and making excuses now. All people gave the ability to succeed but first they must make that decision. Look at the chinese kid that lost both arms in an accident and became a classical piano virtuoso playing with his toes!
Jeff: Lady Love made that post to cover up her post made four hours before that lame post to cover her up sh*t Sh*t being her insult of ghetto people as she described black and where they live. She a devil and she is also evil, she lie like a rug.
Junko, LaLo makes herself look bad enough with her own words. You don't need to call her "evil," "stupid," or "racist," and her words will be no less true for your calling her a "liar." Calling her names only makes you look bad.
And you're right, Jeff bernt, I'm wrong as 2 left shoes. I'm usually a voice of calm and reason. I had just told mike to be cool about La Lo because she's who she is. Than I lost all my cool because I didn't know just how for she would go to make a point. now I'm cool again and understand that Lady Love is more than likely not racist or stupid, She's just stubborn and headstrong and I knew that before I got angry, anger can cause temporary insanity. I would like apologize to Lady Love for my attack and agression against her And will band myself from the political forum for a while and deal with my anger management, thanks jeff.
Apology accepted. Your a good man junko even if you're misguided.
Lady Love: Thanks for taking that pressure off me by excepting my apology before I asked. Nobody on hubpages has a right to attack like I attacked you, I'm glad you aren't a weak personality. My Bad.
Forget it! People are passionate about their beliefs and will defend them vigorously even if they MAY be wrong. We don't easily change our minds... I try to keep mine open but I have strong opinions based on my own experiences and a life of self reliance and independence.
Mike It takes all kind of people to make a world. Lady Love and her people are part of the world. Those that know Lady love deal with her knowing that their best logic will be ignored. All kind of people have failed and you will also fail. Don't get banded in the process of failing to communicate. Be cool.
Lady Love, Read my hope on America's Brand Of Slavery And understand what you are talking about when you speck of African Americans. You are a fool a whole fool and nothing but a fool. I dare you to read my hub and comment about it.
Talk to me Lady Love, Explain to me why you felt a need to demonised a whole race of people. You run around thread to thread ducking in and out,hiding. I need you to tell me what you understand about African Americans. If anybody see her, tell her I'm waiting. I'm in line behind Mike Long.
Companies go to countries like Mexico because those countries don't have the employee rights unions fought so hard for here. It means they can treat their employees like slaves and underpay them.
We should be trying to help Mexico set up unions of its own, not squash our own rights."
"Right! We should subvert the sovereignty of other countries and impose our values and our law upon them... I'm sure they wont mind one bit! Lol!"<----The Laughing Lady....
Charlatan..move your family to Juaraz, go join the face of limited regulation....
Your laughing is an insult to the women working for the American, Japanese, Canadian, and South Korean companies exploiting Mexico's financial weakness and traditional animosity for the majority Native American population in that country....
The factory managers prefer women to men....and people travel thousands of miles from the densly populates south of Mexico and Central Americs northward to the traditionally sparsely populated deserts of North Mexico....for formerly American jobs....
You laugh....while parents worry if their daughters will come home at night from the maquilas....or whether they will fall victim to the brutal sexual assaults and murders that have plagued the city for 15 plus years..... Crony government at its best...when parents of missing daughters go to the police, they are waved away..."They ran off with their boyfriends"......
Don't believe me? Look it up...you're already on the internet....
Your mockery of Mexicans, your hypocrisy regarding the "imposition of values" in U.S.-Mexican relations, and your ongoing hatemongering show us all who you really are...
You may try to point to my writing, and its sharp tones.....but Lady....know that this all comes from a place of Love for those who are truly struggling.....who you demonize, criticize, and minimize...
Keep laughing...perhaps your life will end up like those in Juarez one day....and then they can laugh at you...
You are really out in left field Mike! You are simply assigning positions to me I don't hold! Where the hell did you come up with all thus stuff about mexicans? Can you show me a single post I made that supports the views you've assigned to me? I think not! Your left wing revolutionary tactics are on display for all to see! You are not a man of honor at all but an angry revolutionary anxious to take this country down and to assign all the ills of the world on America, capitalism and freedom! What an insult that someone of your character should have access to our children and be responsible for their education! If it were up to me I'd have you fired for no doubt your indoctrinating our children with your garbage and your hatred! You disgust me!
No Lady.....I just read your views..... I watch your ridiculous little dance....and I realize that this is perhaps the only place (the online arena) where you can feel that you're being taken seriously...
Come out into the real world, and speak publicly....I'll debate you anytime....
I agree that you are part of this world, and that you deserve the right to share your tarnished points of view...
But recognize that I also have the right to meet your spew with equal and opposing energy......you believe in equality under the law, correct?
Be serious Lady, and you will be treated as such...
Speak of the practice of Redlining.... If you support it, show its successes..... But, also be ready to point to its failures....
Don't lie.....it is very simple.... It is okay if you don't like unions.... Don't write in one forum that "I don't have anything against unions" and then come out with this tripe...
I call this moral cowardice....and if you are that poor online, what will happen when you are challenged in public?
I care not if you read this and feel that I am too intense...
Like I have said before.....visit Juarez...I have.... Come down to the City of Commerce....visit MacArthur Park and the Inland Empire... I see the faces...I know the names.....and when Lady laughs at these people....then she deserves whatever written response I send back...and I would hope that others who know better would do the same...
Let it be her and her family in these conditions, and then let us see what she has to say....
I look at the lol you leave behind....and your denial that what is currently going on throughout Mexico (and elsewhere in Central and South America) is exactly American intrusion in Mexico's sovereignty.....
You don't understand the seriousness of my response because either
a) you lack the intellect to understand the seriousness of the topics you are trying to discuss..
b) you could care less about the reality of this "capitalism" and "deregulation", and are focused on satisfying your own selfish endeavors and vanity....
Vanity, vanity....all is vanity....
Do something useful, Lady... Relocate to Juarez, as a writer abroad, and share with us what you find....you can generate some real hubs, for you have written so few, and then we can learn more about who you really are....
And we will discover what you really think....
Until then...or until you demonstrate that you have done the basics...like go to google and youtube and do a little research, your views won't rise far above the realm of rubbish...
You have the freedom to express yourself, just as a fool has the freedom to be a fool...
Again Lady....learn about the colonial craft guilds that led to the rise of the first "modern" labor unions back in Ante Bellum America....
Learn about American history before you demagogue someone (myself) who not only holds a degree in it, but who teaches it...
You may choose to deny the "American-ness" of the craftsmen, the freed indentured servants, and factory workers who organized, or tried to......but you are free to keep yourself ignorant...
I am in "left field"?.....No...I am in "the field"...working with the families your words work against.....
Join me, Lady......
Where is the Love?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgfALPVn … ure=relmfu
Don't hold your breath.
No, she's doing the usual!
She's lost her argument on this thread so she's searching for fresh carp to flourish and crow about, until that's demolished too.
Unconscionable. And all too common. Everywhere, even here.
Some people are expendable in this world. It is not supposed to be that way. And it won't be forever.....
Time is at hand, I do believe, for a change.
Powerful video Mike.
Am going to watch all of them you posted.
Heart-Breaking, and infuriating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K4u-5GC … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YywVecMa … re=related
(Darn Public Broadcasting)
"As far as the ghettoes you would have us believe that those people are there through no fault of their own! Sure kids are born into them but they are afforded the opportunity to get out. No one forces them into drug use or crime. No one forces their fathers to walk out on them or to impregnate multiple women and walk away from the responsibility no one makes them drop out. You know life isn't just what happens to you, its how you handle what happens to you. You can give up and play the victim and blame your color or injustice or your poverty and whine that your people came from slaves or you could do something about it! Many have and many will take the former course and dull their pain."
Wow....talk about a prejudicial viewpoint...
Here is someone you can listen to.....I await your response..
In regards to your "drugs" comments....hone in on minute 8....
As for your "broken homes" and all else....thank you for your bigotry..especially of the socio-economic brand as opposed to race....
The only correlation between "love" and your name is based on familial inheritance....it ends there.
A quote just now from Reddit: "If I make a mistake, I lose my job. When the executive makes a mistake, I still lose my job. This is why we need unions."
And as an extension of that, if I cock up, I lose my job, if my boss cocks up, he gets a golden handshake.
Not to take away from the subject, but
Years ago, I read about Mr America himself...Dick Clark. This was right after Clinton and the Thugs passed welfare "reform".
Dick Clark was using women on welfare here as cheap labor. Bussing them into Las Vegas to work in his joint there, or friends of his, can't remember...
Anyway, they were bussed far from home,paid dirt wages, and their kids would be home alone after school long into the night. But they had to do it, or be on the streets. I think they had to sign a contract or something.....and welfare reform was more about forcing women to take sh*tty jobs or they lose their kids.
It is happening NOW in Kansas! They cut funding for day-care, so women can't afford to keep their kids!
You can't pay day-care and bills on one low-wage income. Their kids are turned into wards of the state...maybe the next cheap-labor pool.
I think that reporter was right...this whole agenda of the Koch-S**ers is a war on women.
Oh and minorities, immigrants and poor people of all creeds.
And labor---got to make sure you keep people poor.
Maine Gov. LePage (R) has ordered a mural in Maine's Dept. of Labor removed after a visitor complained. Per CNN, the visitor wrote:
"In this mural I observed a figure which closely resembles the former commissioner of labor," according to the newspaper. "In studying the mural I also observed that this mural is nothing but propaganda to further the agenda of the Union movement. I felt for a moment that I was in communist North Korea where they use these murals to brainwash the masses."
"At issue is a 36-foot-long, 11-panel mural in the Maine Labor Department lobby that includes depictions of working children, Rosie the Riveter, a Depression-era strike at a shoe factory and workers casting ballots, among other scenes. Also at issue are such names as Cesar Chavez and Frances Perkins, which are affixed to conference rooms in the building."
So the Gov. ripped it down. Has he lost his marbles?
Just pretend one of the figures was wearing a cross... there fixed it!
Would Jesus have torn it down?
Who can say? I didn't know the man nor his politics.
They say he wasn't a supporter of government or the established religion. It all ended badly.
Maybe Gov. LePage wants to get rid of the Labor Dept. mural because the child labor part illustration makes him uneasy.
A bill sponsored by state Sen. Debra Plowman (R) and “backed by” LePage would roll back the state’s child labor laws, with the pretext of giving kids more liberty to work. “We have no other restrictions on any other things they do,” Plowman explained.
The bill is supported by industry groups including the Maine Restaurant Association and the Maine Innkeepers Association.
So the kids at Mickey Dee's will be free to work more hours now.
"Want gruel with that?"
Wow! I wish I could have worked more hours in high school! Another victory for freedom!
It's probably all for the best. Since we're not going to fund their education anyway, they may as well get used minimum wage jobs. That's the future, right?
Oh, we should get rid of the minimum wage also.
Absolutely get rid of minimum wage! That's one reason why unemployment among the youth is so high.
That and those pesky unionized teachers who want them to study first and then work at their Mc-Jobs in the time that's left over.
In any serious economic modeling, doing away with the minimum wage has only one benefit. It makes the owners richer.
There is no way it will cause employers to hire more people. If McDonalds can cut wages in half, will they hire twice as many employees to sell the same number of burgers? LaLo is consistent. She's always in it for the rich guy.
"People that talk about the deficit but won't raise corporate taxes or taxes on the rich are posers"
"Individual mandates? Just fine when a GOP think tank proposes them and a GOP governor enacts them. 'Government takeover' when it's a DEM."
For that one virtuoso, there are millions working in sweat-shops for pennies an hour to sell you some over-priced goods.
Poverty is a social issue, not a moral one.
It has roots that reach far deeper than one good-luck story.
It is entrenched and awful, and until we want to remove it,it will be there.
Lady....go to Juarez and come to truly understand "set back"....
If only the true cost of our cheap goods was borne across your back...and those of your children...
How quickly your tune would change...
I wouldn't go to Mexico if you paid me, it's a sewer!
Wow.....you just show more and more how much of a fraud you are... The depths of your ignorance are fathomless...
Mexico isn't a sewer.. Perhaps you are projecting a bit of your own environment here...
I have travelled through much of the country...and it is beautiful.... However, the closer to the multinational industries one gets....the worse it becomes... which has nothing to do with Mexico, and everything to do with the corruption within the Mexican government, exacerbated by foreign entanglement....
Again, for a Lady of supposed Love, your words and ideas have no correlation to that imagery...
Oh the landscape is fine and the people are nice but between the corruption in the government and the drug lords... well it's a sewer.
''More Evidence Of The Real Union Agenda''
From experience allow me to tell you that the union and the union bosses are not what they were 25 years ago. The unions don't care about their members and the employers who they negotiate with. In the public sector, the unions control both sides of the issues AND THEY will do anything not to lose the power.Unfortionately today, they own the Whitehouse and much of Congress.
It's all about power and money today.THE UNIONS HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED WITH RADICALS, they don't tell their members the truth just as our government.
Just one story,it's a 1982 story.
I called a electrical contractor (union ) for a bid on a project, he said ‘’I gotta tell you that I am no longer a union contractor’’. I asked why??
For many years when he had a good year he would give his employees a bonus, $1000 + or -,to show his appreciation to the workers. The union came in and audited his books. They told him that he owed the union $25,000 for unpaid benefits. Their position was that the bonus money was overtime money concealed in bonuses.
I am not sure if he ever paid the money, fighting them needs a labor lawyer to settle the claim. The above episode made him decide to not renew his union agreements. He wasn’t the only one that I knew that the unions were attempting to extort.
Are you sure of that story? We have quite a few contractors that are in arrears on benefits,but I have never heard of a Business Agent screwing with a mans bonus if they get one at all.I also don't think a union has a right to audit any ones books,I know there are jobs that need a certified payroll,I will ask my owners today though.I think I know the answer.I can tell you that I see the unions getting weaker(For Now) blue collar will come back because everyone cant push paper,that will get outsourced and I see working conditions getting worse.As contractors have to tighten their belts it has to come from somewhere and they don't what it to be from them.Look at the Air traffic controllers,they weren't falling asleep when they were union.
by Dan Harmon 13 years ago
I believe that labor unions were a virtual necessity in years past - they helped correct deplorable and disgusting conditions in the workplace. But are they necessary, or even desirable, in modern America?There is little doubt that there are still workplaces in this country that are in need...
by Josak 10 years ago
Wages have not been keeping up with the cost of living for a long time now in the US and the primary reason is the weakening of the unions, the problem really began during the presidency of Ronnie the union buster Reagan, unions began to lose ground against other movements and many were in fact...
by Ralph Deeds 12 years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Z1AO3yG_8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AbeAcTi … re=relatedThe latest news--The State Police are trying to track down the Democrat legislators at least one of which is needed for a quorum so that a vote may be taken on the governor's bill. The Dems have...
by JON EWALL 11 years ago
Are UNIONS THE ANSWER to the problems we face in our country today?Public sector unions altho related are different than private sector unions.
by David99999 12 years ago
Freedom of assembly is a basic right expressed by the United States Constitution. Therefore, public employees deserve to be allowed to organize to protect themselves from crooks, like Wisconsin's current chief executive. Therefore, the recent actions by said governor and his cronies in the...
by JaxsonRaine 10 years ago
Yet another set of rights being restored to Americans. Today, at least, is a good day for rights.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 … 78021.html
Copyright © 2023 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2023 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
|HubPages Device ID||This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.|
|Login||This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.|
|HubPages Traffic Pixel||This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.|
|Remarketing Pixels||We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.|
|Conversion Tracking Pixels||We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.|