Laughing At Racism

1. 62

   cooldadposted 12 years ago

   
   I'm white.  When someone calls me a "cracker" or "honky", it makes me laugh.  Isn't it about time that we all just looked racism in the face and laughed at it?  Sure, I'm white and I haven't experienced much racism in my life, but "sticks and stones may break my bones..........."
   
   They are just words.  No matter what color you are, get over it.  I know that racism exists in our world every day, but maybe it's time to laugh at it, move on and be better than the person who is being a racist.

   replyreport
   1. 62

      TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It'll never happen.
      
      The Left will not give up such a heavy ass club to beat people who dis-agree with them over the head with.

      replyreport
   2. 61

      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Umm...
      
      Racism sucks. I lived in Japan for four years.
      
      It sucks.
      
      It's really not something that can be brushed off -- It DOES happen to you EVERY day, Every minute.
      
      Go to a restaurant - the eyes are on you.
      
      Eat a sandwich - the eyes are on you.
      
      Walking down the street - people intentionally avoid you.
      
      Try to be nice to people - be given the "helpful foreigner" tag.
      
      Look in the mirror - you see yourself as different.
      
      Racism sucks. It can't be "laughed away".

      replyreport
      1. 77

         lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         My grandson goes through this every day..and so did my daughter.
         He's half black, she's half Asian.
         This place is 98% white....they learned early.

         replyreport
   3. 72

      Rehana Stormmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well, racism is one of those taboo topics that actually does successfully in Comedy. Many comedians get away with racist jokes. I think laughing at racism is becoming more possible in this day and age, but it is very unlikely that every one will be able to accept it (and rightly so). Racism is fundamentally wrong and intellectually defunct. I wish everyone could think like you but the chances of that happening any time soon are minimal.

      replyreport
      1. 64

         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I remember a black UAW representative saying "Racisim is like the wind. You can't see it but you can feel it." I don't agree that racism is a laughing matter although some see it when it doesn't exist and whose reactions are unwarranted.

         replyreport
         1. 72

            Rehana Stormmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            True. In any case, laughing at racism isn't going to help solve it. As long as we have a variety of different races, racism will always exist. Cultural and racial tolerance need to be encouraged and our differences need to be embraced in order to reduce racism.

            replyreport
         2. 74

            Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Nicely Stated.
            
            I agree some people seem to be on a witch hunt of sorts.

            replyreport
      2. 61

         Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What are people laughing at really, racism or racists?

         replyreport
         1. 60

            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Humour is one of the best weapons that society has, laughing at racist behaviour has been very successful in British comedy.   It is unfortunate that even in the relatively enlightened atmosphere of the 60' and 70's people would still write in to the shows complaining about the racist language of the principal white character, clearly unable to understand the simple show OR racists trying to get it shut down.    In these dumbed down times so many more would take offence and complain it would never stay on the air.

            replyreport
   4. 74

      Zubair Ahmedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's easy to say 'sticks and stones may break my bones...........'  but extremely hard to put up with racist attitudes when your in the receiving end.  Especially if it gets violent and starts to ruin someone else's life.
      
      In the West generally if your white your less likely to experience racism or feel its impact in your life in comparison to the average non-white person.
      
      Yes it would be nice to just live together without resorting to such lowly acts but there are those that get gratification at causing others pain.

      replyreport
   5. 61

      paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Alas, we cannot laugh at racism yet.
      
      There are those who still believe in it to such a degree that they will act on their beliefs.
      
      There are those who will still use it for profit.
      
      Each generation is better, but we still have a ways to go.

      replyreport
2. 62

   cooldadposted 12 years ago

   I'm liberal and I might just agree with you there.  Nothing kills me more than when a "supposed" racist incident happens somewhere and Sharpton and Jesse show up.  Absolutely pisses me off.

   replyreport
   1. 62

      TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You know cool... I am not saying all of the Left, but a hardcore batch know just what the words value is in the political sphere and will never let it go.
      
      it is a shame actually... because they degrade all those who have experienced real and viscious racism in the past and in their lives today.
      
      They cheapen it.
      
      And I will admit there is racism on all sides cool.
      
      I am not blind nor stupid... but to think all the right or Left is like that is BS. Some on all sides... but the majority of people have risen above that trash.
      
      And that does make me proud of my country... all of it, Left, Right Center... all of my country.

      replyreport
      1. 77

         lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That's funny...you just called me a racist yesterday.
         
         Was that for politics?

         replyreport
         1. 62

            TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            you made the racist joke, Chris. Not I.
            
            If you are going to make racist jokes then you should be ready to be called on it.
            
            What is sad is that you don't even realize how racist your words were... you are in denial.

            replyreport
            1. 77

               lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               "The mortgage says Rice and Beans"...yes, that could be seen as racist towards Mexicans...but it also happens to be the truth!
               But your gal calls Michelle Obama "Moochelle", you don't say a word.
               
               It's POLITICAL with you IMO!

               replyreport
      2. 61

         Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That's why I'm always really proud of you, because you avoid using negative stereotypes, particularly when discussing the muslim community and Islam in general.

         replyreport
   2. 0

      Nick Lucasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      exactly! we have moved past the days when people were completely infringed on because of their race and by keeping it going we are just setting the stage for more of the same....its time to move on......but special interest groups cling to it as they use racism as political and social capital...and in the process feed the beast or fire

      replyreport
3. 0

   PrettyPantherposted 12 years ago

   I'll agree with you as long as this thread doesn't turn into White Man's Pity Party. 

   replyreport
4. 63

   Jen Pearsonposted 12 years ago

   I think many people do laugh off comments. The real problem with racism (or any form of bullying) is when it doesn't stop at words. It angers me most when comments are made to young people. Also, laughing in some cases, like a 10 year old laughing and a group of older teens who make a racist comment about him, is likely to be seen by the antagonists as a reason to up the ante.

   replyreport
5. 71

   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   To laugh at racism is to be able to laugh at oneself in the face of adversity. Most people cannot and the reason they cannot is because they cannot see beyond themselves(ego).
   
   Then again, that alone speaks volumes about the other issues they have, which this thread isn't about and I'm not going to go any further into.
   
   But, it certainly would be nice if people could laugh at it. However, many also don't see it as a two way street, or a multiple intersection. From many, it's a single perspective only.

   replyreport
6. 59

   DIY Backlinksposted 12 years ago

   In most cases I think we all could move past it and laugh. But it is still a powerful tool if your in politics so don't look for some people to laugh it off anytime soon.

   replyreport
7. 62

   Lisa HWposted 12 years ago

   I just don't think racist (or "racist-seeming") jokes/cracks are funny.  The humor is coming from somewhere inside the person who think he's being funny (or who is actually being racist, rather than trying to be funny).  I'm not a fan of joking about what a person is at all - whether that's his being tall, short, thin, overweight, blue-eyed, blond-haired; or anything else.  The person who makes cracks about what someone is, to me, has what that other person is (in a superficial or other way) too much in mind.  I like humor that either comes from what the "funny person" is, or else is aimed at what we all have in common.  That's just me.
   
   If I were with either close friends or people I didn't know too well of a different race; and one of them made a race crack, I wouldn't start a big fight over it; but I wouldn't laugh at it either.  If the person was being hostile I'd react one way.  If he thought was being funny I'd react another way.  Even if he thought it was funny, though, I'd still think less of him for even having that kind of "joke" come up in his mind in the first place.
   
   My thing is that I use the same kind of humor on anyone I'm with; and as I said, race cracks/jokes just aren't even part of anything I'd think of.  In fact, if I met a stranger and had, say, some supermarket or parking lot "dispute" with him, I'd think of calling him a "jerk" or a "moron" - but it wouldn't even occur to me to think up an insult about his race (or height or weight or eye color, etc.).  So, to me, those things just aren't how I see people; and - I'm sorry - I think the way I see other people is the way everyone ought to. 
   
   Besides, although I have a generally good sense-of-humor, I just think there are some things are better not joked about.  Racist slurs are one of them.  There are other things to crack jokes about, so it doesn't kill anyone to resist his own urge (since he apparently has that urge) to refrain from racist "jokes".  I don't even think it's funny when comedians make fun of their own ethnicity/race.

   replyreport
8. 62

   cooldadposted 12 years ago

   @evan: is that because you are taller than all of them.  Oh crap, that's racist, isn't it?

   replyreport
   1. 69

      junkoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Institutional Racism is worst than the spoken word and affects many more. That kind of racism is not a laughing matter.

      replyreport
   2. 62

      Lisa HWposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "Hardy-ha-ha".  You know what I was getting at.  Anyone who has ever been the "one different one" in a group of others of different race/ethnicity, and has been eyed with suspicion, distance, or even contempt knows how un-funny racism is and why it doesn't make for great joking around.   Also, anyone who has anything "different" (or stand-out) about his exterior that others can't/won't get past and just relate to him without referring to it (or worse, by assuming things about him because of it) knows how sickening go through life that way gets after awhile.
      
      There are people who can joke among friends who apparently also see the humor in it, but expecting "the rest of the world" to go with the "humor angle" to racist jokes/remarks/slurs is expecting too much of too many people.  What goes on in a small group of friends is their business.
      
      The "sticks-and-stones" only applies in certain circumstances (and often to kids, who haven't yet lived a couple of decades with having other people not be able to get past what they first notice about someone - like race, ethnicity, sex,  age, or even something as minor as height, weight,  etc. etc)
      
      I'm not equating racism with something as "silly" as "height-ism" or "weight-ism" or "nose-shape-ism" (that type of thing) - only pointing out that anyone who has dealt with even this kind of seemingly minor thing (or known someone who has) should be able to see how something of the magnitude of racism might not be something a lot of people would think is funny or something to "just be laughed off".

      replyreport
9. 60

   JSChamsposted 12 years ago

   Tell you what gang....I grew up in the South in the Sixties and I know what racism is. This crap where you disagree with a social or political policy and that is racism????????????????Sorry. It's not.
   I am going to have to publish a hub on this.

   replyreport
   1. 77

      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, if you disagree with Netanyahu and the Zionists, and hate Israeli policy, you hate all Jews, and are an Anti-Semite.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well I don't so I'm not. Is disagreeing with this administration racist?

         replyreport
         1. 77

            lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Disagree, no.
            Depict as voodoo witch doctor with bone through nose, say "The Obama's just another black family on public housing"....YES!

            replyreport
      2. 85

         livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         When you have a fixation on crimes committed by Jews only, when you toss around terms like "synagogue of Satan," "Kosher nostra," you use fabricated and deliberately misleading quotes to vilify Jews, and minimize the crimes of everyone else, then you are most definitely an anti-Semite.
         
         The fact that you can find a handful of Jews that agree with you on Israel doesn't negate this (and my guess is that most of them would disagree with the methods you use to make your point).

         replyreport
         1. 77

            lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "When you have a fixation on crimes committed by Jews only"
            
            Geuss you missed all my rants on Bushco!

            replyreport
            1. 85

               livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, I guess there are a few Gentiles you have issue with.

               replyreport
               1. 77

                  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know why you have to categorize by type.
                  
                  I refer to them as neo-cons and Zionists.
                  
                  NOT jews and gentiles!
                  
                  You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, nor a gentile to be a neo-con.

                  replyreport
   2. 74

      Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I can't wait to read it.

      replyreport
10. 60

    Tom Koeckeposted 12 years ago

    I think it was Chris Rock who said the blacks suffering injustices from long ago would look down at the injustices of the 50s and 60s and say "I don't know why they're complaining. They ain't got it so bad."
    
    I think it says a lot about our progress as a society that blacks, whites, and Asians today can all gather to complain about the Muslims and Mexicans.

    replyreport
    1. 70

       Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Chris rock also said, "I bet there isn't one white guy in this audience that'd trade places with me, and I'm rich!"

       replyreport
    2. 71

       Quilligrapherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Very well said, Tom. Bravo!

       replyreport
11. 0

    Emile Rposted 12 years ago

    I don't think you have a firm grasp on racism. I owned a restaurant once. We were known for our excellent rolls. Two black men came in, after the lunch rush. I had rolls in the oven, but only two to serve immediately. I took out what we had. One gentleman was upset. Offended. I explained more would be forthcoming, he was guaranteed an unlimited supply with his meal. He made a giant issue out of the fact and assured me he wanted no more than he was due, but he would not be denied his due. All over a couple of rolls.
    
    You and I cannot imagine what others go through at every level of their existence where racism is concerned.

    replyreport
    1. 61

       paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I have taken the liberty of rephrasing your sentence:
       
       I cannot imagine being victimized by this everyday. Every time, everywhere. Never knowing when it will happen again. Always not afraid, but just so, so tired... It never stops. It always is. Someday...
       
       PS In the interests of full disclosure I should probably mention that I am white. I am mentioning this so that I'm not subjected to racism.

       replyreport
       1. 0

          Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes. That does encapsulate it well. That gentleman opened my eyes wider that day. I felt so horrible that someone had been subjugated to racism to the point that they saw it in simple things.

          replyreport
    2. 64

       Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It's not clear to me what this anecdote has to do with racism???

       replyreport
       1. 0

          Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe nothing. But, to me; when an obviously well educated and an apparently well heeled gentleman talks about not wanting more than his due, but expecting it over a silly roll I see someone who has become accustomed to small slights over and over. The only reason I could see for this behavior was the fact that he was an elderly black gentleman. Maybe I read too much into it. Maybe he was just a jerk, but that's not how I took the exchange.
          
          I'm not old enough to remember the 'separate but equal' bs; but I am old enough to remember those who didn't appreciate the move to remove it. I remember people being treated with less respect by older whites. Being taken advantage of when possible. I see it now with how latino workers are sometimes treated.

          replyreport
          1. 74

             Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Criminal isn't a race. It is a crime. and that is different.

             replyreport
12. 61

    SpanStarposted 12 years ago

    I happen to have been born in the 1940s. I have been denied service at lunch counters as a teenager. Riding on the back of the bus was something I understood black people have to do. During that time as a black person you were always look down upon. I also remember an incident where I went into a very popular department store looking to purchase some particular item. There were three women ahead of me and as I waited for the teller to finish up with the last lady there were more (White Ladies) coming through the door before they reached the counter the teller asked me what I wanted, I said what I wanted and the teller told me you will have to wait until I finish with these other ladies which meant now it went from three ladies to an additional 5 ladies. This treatment was not unusual nor unexpected.
    
    Does anyone remember the term "if you say something to someone long enough they will begin to believe it." Day after day African-Americans were subject to routine humiliation after so many years of this abuse one does begin to develop the idea of self-loathing.
    
    We want to talk about humor as it pertains to racism when I entered the workforce comments of "All In The Family" TV show,  how the people I worked around loved to tell me about Archie Bunker. From the poor neighborhood black people were forced to live in Archie Bunker was never humorous to me. I saw him as a cleaned up version of the attitudes Black Americans had to endure almost every day of their life.
    
    To be honest there was a time in my life when I thought whites and blacks will never be anything but enemies. But during the struggles for civil rights there were whites who stepped out and did the unthinkable-went against their own people. These acts of courage changed my views as to what was possible regarding racial relationships.
    
    One can never fully appreciate or understand the kind of fear and suffering someone else has or had faced if they themselves have not experienced it. Oh yes, we can have an idea, we can surmise what it must be like but if one has never been shot with a bullet then how much of that do we really understand?
    
    I am encouraged that more people today can see a brighter future because Racism Is and has always been A Lie. Hating someone because they're different than oneself is a lie hence we have friends, relatives that are different from us yet we don't hate them-(usually). So this self-loathing that brings about hatred has nothing to do with the subject/person it is simply a smokescreen so that one doesn't have to deal with their own inadequacies.
    
    Martin Luther King Jr.
    
    I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal'.
    
    
    I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood.

    replyreport
    1. 74

       Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       ... "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
       
       I share his dream.

       replyreport
13. 85

    livelongerposted 12 years ago

    A terrific piece in the The Atlantic on the subtlety of today's racism:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc … me/245019/

    replyreport
14. 84

    wychicposted 12 years ago

    Back to the original post -- I agree that when racist comments, etc. are pointed at us, we need to learn how to grow some duck feathers and move on. If someone gets a reaction because of it, that will only encourage them in their behavior. In my own life, I have been inspired by some of the people who have dealt with it well.
    
    My cousin likes to go to a bar on the Crow reservation. He's part Lakota -- historically this is a very bad mix. Late in the evening he ended up getting in a fight with a guy who wouldn't leave him alone about his heritage. It took a long time for him to finally get fed up, and apparently they both gave each other a sound thrashing. Then they both sobered up and realized just how stupid it is to continue a rivalry that started when their ancestors were fighting over the same buffalo herds, and now it's a source for good-natured jabs at each other whenever they meet.
    
    My stepson also got a lot of comments when he was here for a visit. This area has a lot of Crows and whites, and that's about it. When he was here, more than one passerby on the street decided that they could make a very audible comment about him as they walked by. He'd just turn around, smile sweetly and say, "Thank you for noticing, sir, but I prefer the term 'caramel.'" Do you think sometime people will realize that it's just as -- if not more -- stupid to be against someone for their skin color as it is to be against them because their great-grandparents relied on the same buffalo?

    replyreport
    1. 61

       S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Civil rights laws sounded good, but the the real winners hv been the trial lawyers and  their clients who hv been gifted opportunities to file lawsuits.
       
       The EEOC has a backlog of almost 100,000 cases pending against American businesses. Throw in the NAACP and private law firms,  cases pending against American businesses could be close to 200,000. If you're a member one of the democratic party's protected groups , it's not difficult to create a hostile working environment , which you can then file a lawsuit. 
       
       A friend of mine (he's white) last year told me a girl that was hired to be his secretary (she's black), it seemed him, ws deliberately trying to do things that would get her fired e.g. showing up late, making lot's inexcusable mistakes, failing to inform him of appointments, etc. When he decided he had to let her go,  he had to be touch with his legal dept. continuously. For over six months he had to carefully document all of her failures to perform her job description.  And he also had to endure her bad performance.  When she was let go, a few days later, no surprise to anyone, came the notice from her attorney.  And not only was the company being sued for discrimination and wrongful termination, he was/is also being sued personally!  Case is still pending...

       replyreport
15. 60

    EpowerGuyposted 12 years ago

    While it's easy to pick out incidents we don't like or that make us feel bad, the fact of the matter is that prejudices and discrimination that ends in "ism" isn't a personal affliction. It is a cultural manifestation of systemic injustice and a demonstration of the will of the powerful to hold down and out of influences those will (usually much) less power! As such, racism cannot be by people of color or the the various shades of the rainbow against the white stripe. Racism is about the misuse of white power because white people have it and use to to their advantage.
    
    As a Latino or a Black or a Brown person, I can use racist comments and hold such opinions. But the fact of the matter, other then as a result of the destructiveness of the stupidity of guns in our nation, people of color can't hold much power over white people, and thus cannot be racist in the true sense of the word. Where you live, how long you live, your income, your educational level, the kind of health care and whether even have it, your likelihood of going to jail for "good" or bad reasons, etc., in the great US of A is most influenced by socio-economic status and whether or not you are white. White people make the rules and make the determinations as to what degree those they don't like get punished for violation. It doesn't go the other way ... so people of color cannot be racist!
    
    Sorry, but they cannot. Culture is bigger than us all though it makes and shapes us as individuals to a lesser degree than it can help or hurt our society.

    replyreport
    1. 61

       SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Impressive analysis EpowerGuy.  The focus of your message was straight forward and clear-meaning having brought clarity.  My hat's off to you.

       replyreport
       1. 59

          John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Ditto spanstar.
          
          I remember a man talking on the radio once, saying let my children have the same education as white children, let me have a job equal in pay to that of a white man Let me live in a house that a white man would live in and then you can call me nigger or anything else you like.

          replyreport
          1. 61

             SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Yout words does make one think John Holden!

             replyreport
          2. 61

             S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             John Holden: “Let my children have the same education as white children”
             
             Demagoguery. Why don’t you familiarize yourself with American history.  I’ve created a very large list of schools white people created for blacks and funded.  Blacks then wanted school desegregation. In the state of New York , desegregation was created in 1901 (country's first state authorized desegregation effort).  Between 1901 and 1964, I cannot find much noticeable  improvement in the standard of living for blacks as a result of that state’s desegregation efforts.  Nevertheless, by 1968, not only were schools being rapidly desegregated, but school busing was created.  Blacks wanted it, they got it.  Over the  last 40 years, new schools were built for blacks all over America, and trillions hv been spent on education just for them.  You  name it, they got it.
             
             RESULT: Today, almost 60% drop out rate for black males.  In Detroit, closer to 80%. 
             
             “let me have a job equal in pay to that of a white man”
             Say something like that, PROVE IT! Show one example pre 1964 where a black man and a white man worked side by side and the black man was being paid less.  Prior to 1964, millions of blacks worked for white people. White people were not legally compelled to hire them but they did.  And white people always paid them the agreed upon wage.  I cannot find ONE example prior to 1960 where a black-owned business hired a white person. Can you?  I won't hold my breath waiting...
             
             “Let me live in a house that a white man would live in”
             Virtually all blacks today live in neighborhoods that once were white communities. In these former white communities,  when white people lived there,  bars on the windows were not needed, cast-iron steel reinforced gates for a second front  door weren’t needed, nor was  bullet-proof glass required to separate merchant from customer; and local schools didn’t require medal detectors . 
             
             No people in human history hv EVER received more simply because of the color of their skin than African-Americans.  This is not an opinion, it is simply a fact.

             replyreport
             1. 64

                Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You are the one who should study history. No one has suffered more discrimination in schools, housing, employment and at election polls than African Americans. In my college class there were exactly two African-Americans out of 2,000 students--a boy who was an outstanding football player and a girl who was a good student. As I recall, in graduate school there were no African-Americans and no women. When I began work at a major corporation in Detroit the only African-Americans in the corporate headquarters were a few janitors and common laborers. There was not one black secretary, accountant, manager or skilled maintenance employe. In the plants there were minorities employed on non-skilled assembly jobs, but the highly paid skilled trades jobs were off limits to minorities and women. At stockholders meetings officers pointed to the company's "longstanding policy of non-discrimination in employment" without acknowledging its longstanding PRACTICE of discrimination. The only blacks in the huge J.L. Hudson department store worked in the warehouse invisible to the patrons. There wasn't a single minority clerk or sales person. Current dismal conditions in Detroit are, in part, a legacy of this discrimination. 
                
                And because of people with attitudes like yours discrimination continues today although considerable progress has been made thanks to the civil rights legislation passed in the 1960s..

                replyreport
             2. 59

                John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                So, what are you telling me, you've continued to segregate blacks and they still aren't happy!
                
                Desegregation involves not building schools for blacks but including them in main stream education.
                Desegregation involves blacks not living in formerly white areas, now predominantly black, but living in areas that aren't predominantly black or white, but as mixed as the make up of the population is.
                Ask yourself why these things happen and it isn't because everybody gets along just fine.

                replyreport
                1. 64

                   Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   +++

                   replyreport
                2. 70

                   Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Never mind, guys. S Leretseh is a dedicated apologist for racial segregation. Real facts and real history mean nothing to him. He will ignore any data that does not make segregation seem like a good policy, or make integration seem like a bad idea.
                   
                   It's a disgusting idea, and the deliberate, willful ignorance it requires is almost more disgusting. One can only hope that S Letretseh will come to realize how disgusting these ideas are, and reject them.

                   replyreport
    2. 70

       Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I was about to take this:
       "I'm white.  When someone calls me a "cracker" or "honky", it makes me laugh."
       and explain why 'cracker' makes him laugh while the n-word doesn't make a black guy laugh, but Epower Guy said it better than I could.
       
       Racism in the US works in favor of white people. We get the benefit of the doubt where a black guy wouldn't. White folks can afford to find racism funny--it doesn't keep us unemployed, out of the affluent neighborhoods, out of the elite schools, etc. But racism is not funny. It's real, it's nasty, and it still exists. Some white folks would have us believe that racism is over, and that any time someone brings up race, it's because of an imagined slight because there's no real racism left.
       But while that might make white people feel better, it's not true.

       replyreport
       1. 61

          S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          "Racism in the US works in favor of white people. We get the benefit of the doubt where a black guy wouldn't. "
          
          Laughable demagoguery. Let's see you PROVE that statement Jeff.  Please give all of us a real life example. Again, I won't hold my breath waiting...

          replyreport
          1. 71

             Quilligrapherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             “New York (Bronx-New York City) - On February 4, 1999, Amadou Diallo, an unarmed 22 year-old immigrant from New Guinea, West Africa, was shot and killed in the narrow vestibule of the apartment building where he lived. Four white officers, Sean Carroll, Kenneth Boss, Edward McMellon and Richard Murphy fired 41 bullets, hitting Diallo 19 times. All four were members of the New York City Police Department's Street Crimes Unit, which, under the slogan, "We Own the Night," used aggressive "stop and frisk" tactics against African Americans at a rate double that group's population percentage. A report on the unit by the state attorney general found that blacks were stopped at a rate 10 times that of whites, and that 35 percent of those stops lacked reasonable suspicion to detain or had reports insufficiently filled out to make a determination. Thousands attended Diallo's funeral. Demonstrations were held almost daily, along with the arrests of over 1,200 people in planned civil disobedience. In a trial that was moved out of the community where Diallo lived and to Albany in upstate New York, the four officers who killed Diallo were acquitted of all charges.
             
             Pennsylvania (Brentwood) - On October 12, 1995, Jonny Gammage, a 31 year-old African American male, was killed after being pulled over while driving the Jaguar of his cousin, Pittsburgh Steelers football player Ray Seals, in a predominately white community. Although police claimed that Gammage initiated the struggle, a tow truck driver said he saw one officer start the fight and the others join in kicking, hitting and clubbing Gammage while he lay on the pavement. Three officers were tried for involuntary manslaughter: John Vojtas was acquitted; Lt. Milton Mulholland and Michael Albert had their charges dismissed after two mistrials. Gammage's family settled a wrongful death civil rights lawsuit against the five officers involved and their police departments for $1.5 million. “
             
             http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/raci … definition
             
             I can understand how being dedicated to justifying integration can keep some from recognizing the evil of racism.

             replyreport
             1. 70

                Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Surely you mean "justifying segregation?"

                replyreport
             2. 71

                Quilligrapherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                @Jeff Berndt
                I certainly did intend the last sentence to read...
                "I can understand how being dedicated to justifying segregation can keep some from recognizing the evil of racism."
                
                Thank you, Jeff, for the nudge.

                replyreport
          2. 70

             Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             "Let's see you PROVE that statement Jeff."
             
             You got it, mate.
             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN3OCT2gL20
             
             Here's a youtube post of an episode of that show "What Would You Do?"
             A white actor is stealing a bike, even admitting that it isn't his bike, and over the course of an hour, only one couple goes to call the police.
             
             They have a black actor of a similar age and manner of dress do exactly the same thing, and everybody freaks out all over the place.
             
             Proven.
             
             Face it, mate. Racism exists. It works against black folks and other people of color, and it works in favor of white folks.
             
             You are utterly wrong, and your pathetic insistence that racism doesn't exist anymore is the laughable demagoguery.
             
             Shame on you for trying to make others as blind to injustice as you are.

             replyreport
             1. 64

                Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                +++

                replyreport
             2. 68

                Rosie2010posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I had seen this episode.  It is sad and appalling that racism does exist.  It is impossible for anyone to know how it feels to be discriminated upon because of your race unless you have experience it yourself... otherwise, one can only imagine.
                
                Good debate going on here.   BTW, I'm for "racism is NOT a laughing matter."   It never is, and never will be.  Carry on...

                replyreport
             3. 61

                SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Good for you Jeff Berndt for standing firm for the truth.

                replyreport
             4. 74

                Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Nice.
                
                
                Proven.

                replyreport
          3. 70

             Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             So, I gave you your proof, and you've got nothing to say, S Leretseh?
             
             Typical.

             replyreport
             1. 59

                John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps he did hold his breath

                replyreport
                1. 61

                   S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Jeff, that was a good find. I also remember seeing that particular thing airing on  - I think - ABC prime-time (?) and my problem with it is that you just don’t know how it was edited.  Clearly , the whole purpose of the production was to produce visual images of white people being more suspicious (NOT racist!) of blacks than whites.  However, Since you , Jeff, decided to go down the road of producing links to black males 'not getting the benefit of the doubt, '  I thought I would show you , and others here, blacks males who WERE given the benefit of the doubt…
                   
                   One of the most cowardly sucker punches I have ever seen.  Infamous McDonald's Sucker Punch (BEWARE, this could ruin your day!) This is a crime that shakes your conscious.
                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlwIyitM … re=related
                   
                   
                   White female approached by black male, then sucker punched.- her life is literally ruined! 
                   http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_co … /king.html
                   
                   Black teenagers causally walk up to a lone young white female in a parking garage … a knife is pulled then the terror-stricken young girl force her into the trunk of her car. Result::  Robbery/Rape/ Torture/BURNED ALIVE
                   http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/arc … 11729.html
                   (read what the father hs to say about losing his daughter)
                   
                   Young white male trusted and agreed to do business with a black male --shotgun blast to head (black male wanted see what it was like to kill someone)
                   http://www.minitruckinweb.com/events/so … to_15.html
                   
                   Home invasion by six black youth  --Murder of a 12-year-old child
                   http://justice4caylee.forumotion.net/t9 … arthage-nc
                   
                   Blacks males offer to be Good Samaritans and give a brother and sister (white) a ride. Result: Rape / Murder
                   
                   http://tn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDo … .TN.htm/qx
                   
                   INHUMANE TORTURE/ MASS MURDER of innocent white people
                   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-Fi_murders
                   
                   Elderly white female AMBUSHED in school by black teens  --- Sucker Punch and filmed for amusement
                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0EK0Qe7lKE
                   
                   Good Samaritan Murder: Black males tell a housewife they hv car trouble and ask if she could give them a ride into town. She agrees, but first offers them some food and drink.  They ambush her and murder her and her 15-year-old son
                   http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/dea … on1023.htm
                   
                   Two white females (sisters) agree to give a black male a ride home. Result: Both wind up shot in the head.
                   http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1382358.html
                   
                   INHUMANE CRUELTY - ATROCITY - - Good Samaritan murder.  A white male, home with his wife,  falls for the” I got car trouble and I was wonderin’ if you got jumper cables.”  When he allows three black teens into his home , they pull a gun and march the white couple to a bedroom. The male is deliberately shot in the spin to render him a cripple. His wife is also shot.  After ransacking the house, the black teens return. The wife is shot in the head, the male is shot in his right shoulder.  The black teens intended the white male to only hv a functioning left arm…and no wife.
                   http://www.txexecutions.org/reports/315.asp
                   
                   Elderly white female employed a black male. He was simply biding his time. Rape/ Torture/ Murder
                   http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-app … 83/585696/
                   
                   White female offers to be Good Samaritan - kidnapped, BURNED ALIVE
                   http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/ig/F … -Nixon.htm
                   
                   Okay, I can give thousands of links that I’ve found where white people gave the black male(s) the benefit of the doubt, THEN…
                   
                   My research shows over the last 40 years,  98% of all the inter-racial violent attacks involve black on white. I hv NOTHING against blacks. I want the violence, the taking advantage of people’s trust, the home invasions, business invasions, public abductions, racism and HATE, etc,  to STOP! ENOUGH is ENOUGH
                   
                   Oh, and Jeff, or anyone else like-minded, if you are thinking about perusing the internet looking for black victims of white violence, I 've already done it. Months and months of searching .. Grand total is 57 incidences over the last 40 years (that I could find on the Internet).  And yes, NONE OF THEM deserved to be victims.

                   replyreport
                   1. 60

                      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      You are a true racist and exhibit every characteristic of racism - there are organisations that can help you recover to a point where you might even be able to enjoy the semblance of a normal life.

                      replyreport
                      1. 61

                         S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Jeff went down this road dude. He then prodded me for a response to his link.  Did you miss that?!  Human life means something to me.  I cannot causally overlook victims ... simply because the ones doing the victimizing are black ... and the victims white.   
                         
                         I AM DONE WITH THIS THREAD

                         replyreport
                         1. 60

                            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            yeah - bye

                            replyreport
                         2. 59

                            John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            Have you not considered that there may be racism in crime reporting?
                            That white kids going out on a Friday night and beating black kids might not even be considered to be a crime?

                            replyreport
                   2. 70

                      Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      "My research shows over the last 40 years,  98% of all the inter-racial violent attacks involve black on white."
                      Then your research is pretty lazy.
                      
                      You dismiss my proof with "Oh, it must have been edited to show discrimination." Of course, you don't get that the fact that someone would be more suspicious of a black guy than a white guy, when both guys are doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, is in fact racism.
                      
                      You can try to tell yourself that it isn't if it makes you feel better, but to assume the white guy is on the level while the black guy is a thief, is racist.
                      
                      Here's some statistics from the University of Missouri, Kansas City.
                      You'll note that black victims outnumber white victims by 2.5 to one, which is surprising, since whites outnumber blacks by close to 9 to one even now. If there was no racial motivation to these murders (and a lynching is a murder--an extrajudicial execution--whether the victim was guilty of a crime or not) wouldn't you expect to see statistics more proportional to the population demographics? That is, 9 white victims for every black one?
                      
                      I'm sure you'll explain the discrepancy by suggesting that black people are more violent by nature, which is what racism sounds like.
                      
                      Here's an example of white guys beating up a black guy at a recent town hall meeting. And this is an attack on a conservative black guy by liberal white guys. Of course, you'll probably argue that since it's liberals, it proves that liberals are full of carp. But that's not it at all: racism is everywhere, sometimes even among people who pretend not to be racist. Hmmmmm.....I wonder where we've seen this theme before?
                      
                      Here's a white-on-black mugging. It might just have been a mugging, and had nothing to do with race, except the muggers called the victim the n-word.
                      
                      Here's a case of a white kid who deliberately drove his pickup truck over a black guy, killing him. Turns out, this kid may also have attacked several other black people in the area. I think this one counts as several examples.
                      
                      Here's an example of a black guy shot by police. He voluntarily submitted to a search, the cops found nothing, and told him he was not under arrest. He walked away, and the cops shot him.
                      
                      Here's another example of a cop shooting an unarmed black man. Apparently, to a northern Louisiana cop, a sports-drink bottle looks exactly like a pistol?
                      You'll note that a lot of these examples of white-on-black violence is cops abusing their authority on black citizens. I haven't even gotten into black defendants getting railroaded through court and being convicted because of bias, suppressed evidence, etc.
                      
                      And here's a few examples of black people falsely convicted, and later exonerated by dna evidence.
                      
                      Pile those on top of Amidou Diallo, Rodney King, Malice Green, etc.
                      
                      Turns out that of all the people the Innocence Project has exonerated, 60% have been black men falsely accused and convicted of  raping white women.  There just seems to be something about a black guy being accused of raping a white lady that sends that guy right to jail in the US, evidence be damned.
                      
                      So, your "research" is worthless. You've been either both lazy and dishonest, and not bothered to really look for white-on-black violence, or else merely dishonest, ignoring almost all of the evidence you did find, or shamefully sloppy. Further, you seem not to have counted police brutality against black men, and to have completely ignored the long history of black defendants being falsely convicted in a much greater proportion than white defendants.
                      
                      You say, "I hv NOTHING against blacks." You have a funny way of showing it: you ignore the violence that has been done to black people by white people in an effort to "prove" that black people do more violence to white people.
                      
                      You say "if you are thinking about perusing the internet looking for black victims of white violence, I 've already done it. Months and months of searching .. Grand total is 57 incidences over the last 40 years (that I could find on the Internet)."
                      But dude, I just did the search. I found a bunch of white-on-black violence in the past year alone. You seem to expect us to believe that this was, what, an isolated spike? And that most years never see a black person get attacked by white people? Seriously?
                      
                      i wonder what motivation you could possibly have for this? It surely isn't intellectual honesty. What other possibilities are there? Let's think about that for a bit.....

                      replyreport
                      1. 64

                         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         That's a good question, Jeff. I'm pretty sure I know the answer based on this guy's Hubs and comments.

                         replyreport
                         1. 61

                            S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            I feel like I’ve invaded a little children’s den here and you’re playing ‘let’s pretend in the tooth fairy.’
                            
                            Jeff, I’m not going to get into a tit-for-tat with you.  Oh, and the town hall link where a black was beat, the beating suspect was a black man, not a white man.  If you google black males ambushing white police officers, you can see the  extent of the problem here.  It started in 1970 with the Black Liberation Army.
                            http://www.odmp.org/officer/10136-serge … -ogrady-jr
                            
                            Police officers know the crime stats.  They live them every day.
                            
                            
                            Ralph, I would dearly love to have a happy human family in America.  I do not believe in racial superiority.  I do believe in  statistical data. 
                            
                            Seattle Times: “But on the other hand, when overall cross-racial violent crimes are tabulated — including incidents not formally classified as racially motivated hate crimes — Justice Department statistics show that blacks attack whites far more often than whites attack blacks.
                            
                            In 2005, there were more than 645,000 victims of cross-racial violent crimes between blacks and whites in the U.S. In 90 percent of those crimes, black offenders attacked white victims.”
                            http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n … ate11.html
                            
                            My research shows that inter-racial attacks over the last 40 years, where the victim is seriously injured or dead, indeed, 98% of the time attacker is black(s) and the victim is almost always white.  When you are the victim of such an attack, and are lucky enough to survive,  it will change you.  If white people would start ‘braving up’ and force this issue into mainstream media, many, many lives could be saved

                            replyreport
                            1. 70

                               Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               "I feel like I’ve invaded a little children’s den here and you’re playing ‘let’s pretend in the tooth fairy.’"
                               Maybe you should stop telling fairy-tales, then, and we'll see how far reality can get us.
                               
                               "Oh, and the town hall link where a black was beat, the beating suspect was a black man, not a white man."
                               Whoops. Mea culpa. I missed that--I ought not to have included this as an example of white-on-black violence.
                               (By the way, this is what it looks like when someone catches a person who cares about reality in an error.)
                               
                               "I do not believe in racial superiority.  I do believe in  statistical data."
                               Then try taking a look at some data that has statistical significance.
                               
                               "If white people would start ‘braving up’ and force this issue into mainstream media, many, many lives could be saved"
                               What the heck are you talking about?
                               
                               When a white person gets assaulted and accuses a black person of the crime, the black suspect is more likely to be convicted, whether he's guilty or not.
                               When a convict is sentenced, the white guys tend to get lighter sentences than black guys.
                               When the death penalty is a possibility, black defendants get the death penalty 38% more often than any other group, for similar crimes.
                               
                               Here's a scholarly paper on the subject of the unequal application of the death penalty.
                               
                               Here's another article that shows the disproportionate rate that black juvenile defendants get sentenced to detention over white juvenile defendants.
                               A quote:
                               "For example, in 1995, 15 percent of cases nationwide involving white juveniles resulted in detention, while 27 percent of cases involving black juveniles resulted in detention, even though whites comprised 52 percent, and blacks only 45 percent, of the entire juvenile caseload."
                               
                               By the way, your link to the Seattle Times article about the white couple getting killed by black assailants? A major theme of the article is that it's the opposite of the usual pattern: black people getting beaten and killed by white assailants.
                               
                               "My research shows that inter-racial attacks over the last 40 years, where the victim is seriously injured or dead, indeed, 98% of the time attacker is black(s) and the victim is almost always white."
                               Except you've already admitted to assuming that black lynching victims must have been lynched by other black people in the absence of any information about the suspects. That right there shows that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that your so-called "research" depends heavily on information that is anally extracted.
                               
                               "When you are the victim of such an attack, and are lucky enough to survive,  it will change you."
                               Hmmm. I wonder. I would hope that after being attacked by somebody, I'd be angry at the actual person or people who attacked me, rather than everybody who vaguely looks like them.

                               replyreport
                   3. 61

                      SOBFposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Actually my friend your attempt at demonizing black through black on white crime is rather pathetic. When it comes to violent crimes, white are far more likely to be the victim of rape, murder, or assault at the hands of another white than a black. You are comparing cross race numbers while ignoring the fact that whites should fear other whites far more than blacks.

                      replyreport
                   4. 74

                      Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Dayum...

                      replyreport
16. 60

    recommend1posted 12 years ago

    I am an English guy and ran a pub in Wales - I got a taste of vicious racism there as the Welsh have a serious (and justified) grudge against the English.  I cannot begin to pretend it was as deep and extensive as colour racism etc, but it was absolutely unpleasant and insidiously nasty. Also the feeling of not being safe within your own society is totally isolating, even good friends cannot be relied upon for support under such a blanket of peer pressure.

    replyreport
17. 74

    Kangaroo_Jaseposted 12 years ago

    I believe for Americans there's a document somewhere that starts with 'We, the people....????

    replyreport
18. 68

    Beth100posted 12 years ago

    Like Lisa HW, I do not find the humour in mocking at another's race, culture, size, shape, speech impediments or intelligence of a person.
    
    It's one thing to laugh off a racist comment from a passing stranger.  It is another to live it day after day day after day as comments are said, spread and thrown at you by ignorant racists.  It is even worse to have, not only words thrown against you, but to be physically violated by these racists through actions of aggressive behaviour, including physical violence ranging from stone throwing, pushing, "bumping" to rape.  You can't "grow duck feathers" and let it run off your back.  When you're bleeding, cut, injured and left with mental/emotional scars, you can't just "laugh it off" or let it roll off your back like oil off a ducks feathers (for those of you who may not know this North American saying). 
    
    I do not find it funny.  I find it disrespectful not only to the person it is directed at, but by the person directing it as that person is an ambassador of his own culture and race.  And that race is the human race. 
    
    I live with racism -- I see it, I receive it, and I intervene when I can. 
    
    And I agree with Epower Guy -- culture is bigger than us all.....

    replyreport
    1. 62

       cooldadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       To clarify; if everyone will read what I posted to start this forum.  I never spoke of justifying laughing or mocking "at" racism.  I said, we should all laugh in the race of racism.  It amazes me how forums take on a life of their own and stray from the original statement.  (this is not directed at you Beth, but rather to forum as a whole)

       replyreport
19. 0

    Husky1970posted 12 years ago

    Very well stated, beth100.  Your comments are filled with the sensitivity and wisdom that we need to overcome the damaging effects of racism.

    replyreport
20. 60

    swoosh2591posted 12 years ago

    I agree with you cooldad. It is time for our society to see others as people of different cultures with different life experiences and take away from it. To look at everyone as a part of something larger than just what "color" or religion they are.

    replyreport
21. 69

    junkoposted 12 years ago

    God said you will surely die and the devil you will surely not die. What did you say in the begining?

    replyreport
    1. 69

       junkoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Do you remember what you posted? Check again, vague huh?

       replyreport
22. 77

    lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

    "There just seems to be something about a black guy being accused of raping a white lady that sends that guy right to jail in the US, evidence be damned."
    
    Happened to my friend, Christopher McCowen.
    Read "Reasonable Doubt" by Peter Manso....it's like being hit by a brick.
    
    STUNNING injustice.

    replyreport
23. 61

    thebigbagblogposted 12 years ago

    Well said, Berndt.

    replyreport
24. 58

    quatrainposted 12 years ago

    amen

    replyreport
25. 74

    Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago

    My personal opinion of the Black on White crime stats is this.
    1) since there are soo many more whites than blacks, it seems more likely that the crimes are not so much racially motivated but are more a side effect of that numbers game.
    If 98% of the people in exstence are white then the chances of a white person not being involved in some way(being the victim) is far less than the chance of that remaining 2% being involved(being the victim). This would make the stats seem slanted and racially motivated when in actuality it stems from an access issue.
    2)Generally (and this is changing) most people believe that Blacks/minorities don't really have/rarely have anything to steal. Whites on the other hand are considered to be 'The Man' and have everything. Targeting someone that probably doesn't have anything instead of someone that probably does would be the next factor to me.
    3)Drug addiction, poverty, the inaccessabilty of betterment(financially), and the aforementioned smoldering rage that day in and day out racial (or imagined racial) slights create, would also have to figure in...
    
    The bottom line for me is: I guess we have more work ahead of us on both sides of this issue, than I had previously thought.
    
    I do have to agree however that Crime is not OK. No matter who it is against.

    replyreport