I've often said, the issue of being afraid to come out of the closet, is because you don't want to lose a loved one, a family member who might stop loving you because you are gay. I've also said, WHO CARES!
Happiness is what you need in life. This thought of family, family, family... is just so overrated. You need to circle yourself with happiness, people who love you and that may not be family. If people would follow this simple rule, coming clean on who they really are would be so easy.
The strength in numbers of the friendships you have, with the people who really love you for who you are, is how you build a meaningful life. It's not about being gay or straight, it's about being loved for who you are as a person!
My motto is "you are never going to have 100% of anyone love you, so love yourself first."
There is never going to be equality in the world we live in. There is always going to be rich and poor, fat and skinny, black and white, short and tall and gay and straight. It's not about equality, it's about happiness. I would take happiness over equality any day.
Happiness in equality can be achieved only through numbers and it's those numbers of people in the closest that need to love themselves, to come out of the closet and stand up for equality so they can find happiness.
I know it is easier said, than done, but it is a start. Love yourself first!
Jason C Jean
Can you blame them? So much hate pointed at them by so called Christians and other religious.
I think they are afraid because of discrimination and being rejected by friends and family. IMO, you have to be who you are and if your family or friends reject you for being the person you are, then they are not worth having in your life. That may seem harsh but, if someone truly loves you, they love you for YOU.
Okay, Jason, I'll respond to your question because I hate to see a new hubber being ignored ... but remember, you asked the question and I am responding to the way your question was worded.
I was a bit surprised by the way you presented the question, so I went to your profile hoping to gain more of an understanding as to what drove the emotion. It seemed a bit off-hand regarding family. "This thought of family, family, family ... is just so overrated."
I kind of agree with that concept in principle, but I don't think the importance of family to most people can be so easily dismissed.
What really puzzles me about this question now, having gone to your profile in search of answers, is the discovery that you are a life coach, including 'Relationship/Family Coaching'.
So, before we all start responding (as hubbers generally do), could you clear one thing up for me, please? Are you writing this question from the perspective of a 'life coach', or a gay who has come out of the closet?
Well said. However in parts of the country/world coming out may mean a complete loss of family. It can mean an entire town treating you different. For many it simply isn't worth the loss.
My post is more of a statement than a question. I've coached many gay singles and couples in coming out and it's my experience that losing family over their decision is one of the major factors in why so many are afraid, to be free with who they are.
We are nurtured into feeling we have to always love family and be their for family and I disagree. In my book "life's tool belt" I explain why you have to love yourself first and if family fits in your equation of loving yourself than great, if not circle yourself with the people who add up to your standards of love.
Thank you for the reply
Jason C Jean
There is no town or country that agrees 100% on everything. No matter what town, city or state one lives in, there will be haters of something. People will complain there are to many pizza shops, to many gas stations, to many housing developments, not enough school, not enough gas stations, not enough restaurants. We are a society of opinions and that's why people need to stop worrying about the majority of what people think and worry about what personally how they think and feel.
Okay, that's cleared that up then. I'm no longer confused.
I'll leave you to have this discussion with others, because I'm not an expert on this subject.
Try talking to some people who have done it. Their families cared, and in quite a few cases threw them out of the house.
I'm sure the family did care. That's the selfishness of most families that at first they don't want to be the parents of the child who is different. Those parents or family members have their own demons they have to deal with personally. The point is, for the person who is afraid to come out, don't
"I may not believe in what you do, but I love you anyways." More people should try that, it really has meaning.
Then you know why people are worried about coming out. Losing contact with your family can make a person unhappy.
So you are saying one should hide who they truly are, so they don't upset the family balance.
If so, I and many others would disagree with that theory. You have to be strong and be your own person in life. As stated early, at some point their will be disappointment. You can't make everyone happy 100% of the time.
Thank you for the forum thread.
I don't think psycheskinner is saying that a gay person "should" hide who they are, just that this is a reason why they might decide to do so. You are asking why, she is answering why. How are you getting "should" out of her answer?
I am saying that coming out is not a simple process that takes you from unhappy to happy. It often involves losing things as well as gaining things and that should be acknowledged. People that choose not to come out have their reasons and I, personally, respect that choice. For example I am against "outing" closeted celebrities.
Oh, I wish you hadn't written that. I'm Australian. Makes me just as uncomfortable as your original post, written in that creepy 'glib' kind of way that makes an aussie's skin crawl. Sorry, but this is a global site. Just giving you a clue now that you are moving into global 'life coaching'.
Do this. Do that. Why do you get to tell gay people how to live their lives, and shame them if they don't live up to your expectations? You stand there, with a family support group and financial security, telling people who may NOT have that kind of support group to chuck what they've got. That seems to me a little arrogant.
Here's your average gay teen. Coming out means being bullied, picked on, possibly even killed. It also means parents and grandparents may disown you or take steps to force you to follow their standards. You're young, you're scared, you don't have life experiences, and on top of the rest of that you've got the joy of adolescent hormones.
You're telling that kid he/she should take a gamble and risk all that?
Or here's an older person. He/she loves their parents or grandparents, but coming out means losing them, or having the out-ness be a source of family conflict. So they should just throw a grenade into family dynamics? This will make them happy, how?
It depends on the family. Some familes are ready to handle it. Others emphatically are not.
Real-world example. Kid is 19. She's in college. She comes out to her parents. They tell her they're not going to pay for her college now unless she comes home RIGHT NOW so they can get her treatment. She tells them that's just who she is. They disown her. Now, partway though her sophomore year, she's got to find and work two jobs at a high powered school and find a way to pay the $48,000 in tuition she has left to go, or drop out. Miraculously, she manages to pull it off -- she DOES work two jobs, she DOES manage to stay in school, but she has to take on a lot of debt with student loans. Twenty years later, still working two jobs much of the time, she's still not quite paid off student loans, and she's been cut off from her family all that time.
It sucked to watch, let me tell you. I couldn't have done it.
There are millions of stories like this. I'm surprised, in the line of work you do, that you're asking why people are reluctant to put themselves through hell, lose loved ones, disrupt a family they care about, or possibly jeopardize their financial security or their very lives, depending on circumstances.
And, oh, yes, you may not be aware of this, but most gays know the pink and black triangles were originally what gays and lesbians had to wear in the concentration camps in WWII, the same way the Jews had to wear a gold star. It shows solidarity with those killed for being gay.
Why wouldn't some gay people hesitate to come out under those circumstances?
Depends on your social position. A big wig on wall street may not want to do that, or an NFL player. although the latter could happen soon. I don't care if one does or doesn't. I think someone I know is gay and wish he'd admit it. Anyway, I just went over some tax deductions filing status and the DP, RDP, and so on seems to get more complicated. They should just let it be one acronym and then change it once it becomes official - marrying.
A positive stereotype of gays is most are funny and the high concentrated areas are clean and pretty much upscale. C'mon don't look ay this negatively. Will & Grace was a funny show.
Because Christians, the same people who invented death by burning at the stake and death by lynch mob, abhor gay people. And you know what happens when those in power hate you...
I dont blame them. Society is so ignorant and unforgiving it scares the hell out of them.
They may still be covered in peanut butter and have maybe lost their trousers. Always make sure you have your trousers and clean the peanut butter off before leaving the closet!
Actually, I think there are a lot of people who 'abhor' gay people, if that's the right word. Some of them hide behind Christianity, as if partaking of a particular faith will suddenly make their bias, hatred and intolerance of other human beings and their partner preferences acceptable. After all, they can say "God said so" and relinquish any personal responsibility for their own shortcomings and inadequacies.
But I don't think that's fair. There are lots of Christians (I'm not a Christian) who do not hold the same prejudices. So, I think it's unfair to blame religious groups. We should just point the finger at hypocrits.
What number of people would you say that "abhor" gay people?
How long is a piece of string? Whether you like it or not, there are people who look down their noses at other people who are not the same as they are. That's how it is.
In terms of Christians "abhorrence" to gay people, I have already stated that it is unfair to claim that one particular religious group acts in a discriminatory way. Only bigots act in a discriminatory way, and they attach themselves to multi-faiths, or none at all.
A bigot is a bigot. I don't believe that we should label the religious and non religious alike, based on the insecurities of a few uneducated and tortured souls.
So you don't really know if "a lot" of people abhor gay people its just your assumption.
And pieces of string vary in their length.
And you just want to argue for arguments sake.You appear to be all knowing, so why don't you offer all in this thread some quality stats re: the numbers of Christians who are opposed to same sex relationships?
In case you *didn't* get it, which by all accounts you didn't, the string scenario was indicative of a "who knows how many" Christians are, or are not, in favour of same sex relationships.
But you appear to have all the answers, so I'll wait patiently for your awesome data.
I have made no claims to knowing how many people "abhor" or don't "abhor" gay people.
I just said that you assumed, why so touchy?
You asked how long a piece of string was so I answered.
Are you getting enough fiber in your diet?
I said * a lot of people* abhor gay people. The sting scenario, which clearly you are unfamiliar with, *shakes head and laughs* means that there is no way of knowing 'precisely' how many people, religious or otherwise, have those attitudes.
The fiber comment is a bit obvious. In other words *do not have rational or reasonable argument, therefore will deflect with daft fiber comment* and hope it works, not! lol
No, the fiber comment has more to do with your agitated reply, maybe something is causing your agitation it seems out of place considering the simple question asked of you.
Do you "abhor" gay people?
Is it my imagination but does this person remind you of someone who seems to have disappeared from the forums lately?
This person reminds me of so many that have been axed before him, RG. Still makes me giggle though! lol.
who was axed? How do you get axed?
Y am I axing?
You just sound so familiar to someone who was here before. Started off just like you, then became highly abusive to all who disagreed. Was axed, because he/she was unable to have civil conversation with others without abusive language and insults.
Jason - are you gay? Because if not, what are you doing telling people what to do?
Some of us will be disowned, beaten, raped, even killed merely for being who we are. Yet, you wonder why some of us are afraid to come out?
I personally was lucky, my parents, friends and coworkers don't care I'm gay and are happy I'm happy. Not all are so lucky.
Yes, it's better being out - but it's just not that easy.
I am not gay, but I don't feel comfortable "coming out of the closet" with what goes on behind closed doors in my life. Why are our personal sexual preferences a matter of public concern?
Most of the people I know who are gay were known to be so by their close friends and family before they ever publicly "came out". I think our society makes it difficult to be an individual. When we're young we are ostracized for dressing differently than our peers or listening to music or having hobbies our friends don't. When we become adults it often stays that way. If you are a different religion or support a political party which is not mainstream in your area you are often not included in social groups. To publicly announce you are choosing to live an entire lifestyle which veers from the "norm" is a huge step. It has more to do with wanting to belong and be respected than just making your parents upset.
Some people risk a variety of punishments for coming out, mostly at the hands of their families. The risks are anything from being disinherited to beatings, or being killed. It can be a punishment from a religious perspective. It can be categorized as a hate crime.
So saying "who cares" is kind of ridiculous. That just invites people to return the so called compliment and offer equally rotten compliments and wishes.
If people respect other people and care enough, then they won't not care. They will see the damage and hurt that is causes.
It's just one step away from hate speech of some kind. Venting about other people in that way is insensitive. I have a friend who tried to kill herself because her parents reaction to her coming out was so terrible. She was ostracized by her family and most of her friends. She was not able to deal with the torture and the isolation. And yet she is a very wonderful person who wouldn't harm a fly. Her only crime is being too timid and soft-hearted. Please try and be more understanding. We are all only human.
@jlpark & Jasoncjean (who never clarified if he was gay) I have a question, I believe everyone should be comfortable with themselves regardless of their preferences. Why if your a gay man (I see this a lot) you have a partner that looks like a woman, or if your Lesbian, you have a partner that looks/acts like a man. If you are gay and like men? Why not be with a man?? and not a male on hormone pills/etc, looks like a woman. I've never understood that.
Alphadog. Thanks for the question.
Most couples don't fit the stereotype. Just like you are attracted to certain things in a person, so are we.
Many, if not most, couples don't fit this stereotype. We love who we love. I know couples where they are the most feminine women I know, and some of the more masculine men I know are in gay relationships.
Those on pills and hormones to be another gender are transgender, but not necessarily gay at the same time. Transgender means that their born gender is not that which they identify with - eg born male, feel female or vice versa.
Attraction is an interesting thing and difficult to explain regardless of orientation.
Me personally - I'm not butch, but not so keen on dresses. Dress feminine when I want, not so fem when I don't feel like it. My partner is probably a little more fem than I am but neither of us are what you'd call masculine or butch. We were attracted to each others personalities and looks came in later (we were friends first - I was out, she wasn't!).
It really each to their own. Some women feel more comfortable butch, others fem and others in between. Same for guys.
Thanks for asking respectfully tho! I hope I helped (it's hard to not repeat whilst typing on an iPhone!)
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