If God Knows Everything
I understand, not disputing that some do pray to be seen by others, like the bible says in Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them".
I guess the bad ones do always give the good ones a bad reputation. That we both agree on. Take care sis.
Take care
Thanks. I was hoping for a prayer that Jesus led communally. I guess there wasn't one. However, the day of pentecost, good example. This prayer was obviously needed. I wonder if they said, "Right now Lord!!!" or, Aww-aww, or any of the other characteristic moans. As I said before, God searches the heart's intent. He knows who is and who is not.
I can remember that I used to be a "restaurant prayer". I was turned off by it when I realized that I did it for show. I realized that it was not the prayer to God that concerned me, really. It was all the looks. Especially if I could say, "excuse me" and bow down, at the table. It was not that didn't know that the Lord had my back already. I had a point to prove. See me world. I was convicted. It is rude to stop a dinner conversation to utter a prayer. I prefer to do it in my spirit, on the way to the table now. It is just not about the show. I know that back then , I did not intentionally set out to "showboat" It was really not a conscious effort to get attention. I just realized that it was rude, most often. And then a sense of pride that I had prayed to my father when everyone else did not. It was not for my food. It was subconsciously for my friends. Once the light had shone on that flaw. I changed my mind. God now blesses my food even before I get it. Please don't take this to be a personal, "I hate your way" matter. I just wanted another point of view. God is only upset with prayer when it is full of self. He loves to hear from us.
If I may contribute to discussion.
Jesus was talking to specific people. Those pharisee who did showed up their hypocrisy. But when He talked to believers He said speak Word loud (matter). The faith comes by hearing. If it is loud for you, you have remote control. It is not necessary to hate. It damages immune system.
Inquire no more
To you, God will reveal himself whenever you want to receive him. You have made your choice on that right? Fyi... Just so you know, death will happen all around us for the rest of our days. As sure as you live, you will die. Starving children is our fault, not God's.
That was a perfect zinger
Ah, I see your God has successfully taught you all about love.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. It is also stressed that some hearts have been hardened so that they may NOT hear. Some harden their own hearts so as NOT to hear.
We cannot know God's thoughts; nor give him advice. He is Lord
His grace and mercy are free and undeserved. Our faith makes us righteous and spotless in his eyes. Not acts.
Never spare me. lol... Say what's on your mind.
The word "god" is a very ambiguous term. What in the world is a god? No one knows really and everyone their opinion. It all depends on what you think a god should be.
Descartes as well as Anselm tried to define god as perfection in the universe. If you can think of perfection then there must be a god because we as humans can only think of things we have experienced. Therefore the idea of god must be implanted into our genetic code so to speak.
Well that idea falls short because we can certainly think of many things that we do not experience, and the way to thinking of perfection is simply a matter of continuously asking how much better it can be until you come to an upper limit.
So since perfection does not give us a proof of god one could make a case for it through existence itself.
We exist. We did not always exist. Therefore something had to have happened to bring us into existence. Hence what ever brought us into existence can be seen as god. Therefore there is a god.
But that formula of logic does not tell you what god is. It certainly does not tell you that god is an intelligence. So you have to ask whether intelligence is required to bring us into being., The answer to that is debatable but if the findings of science are correct there is no consciousness required.
Science does not say it directly, but it is implied in it's findings. If you put, as you say, math, chaos, and the laws of physics together, you have a perfect working model of a system that creates complexity from simplicity using very simple rules.
The Pantheist god is described in many ways. It is the totality of existence, the universe itself/all in it, But I like to think of it as a god process so to speak.
Does the universe require that intelligence of some sort is inherent its fabric? I wouldn't say so. But I will say that I think energy has a rudimentary awareness inherent in it. A potential for awareness. Intelligence implies consciousness of some kind and we can see that as an emergent property of complexity,
Perhaps awareness is too, but it is tempting to think that potential rudimentary awareness may be a fundamental part of energy, even if actual awareness isn't. More data may tell.
That energy itself may posses some kind of potential awareness is just my opinion. I have to add that my opinion does not constitute a belief on my part. It changes as the evidence changes,. I see no reason for faith or even belief. Facts do not require either, just acceptance once they are known. And what are not facts are by definition speculation and there is really no reason to put your faith in that,
I've written a lot of hubs on chaos theory and energy, mass,, entropy and a host of other topics to bring some of these points together. It's a complex topic to say the least.
As a philosopher of science I do find myself unable to make giant leaps of faith or speculation. But I am well aware of the value of putting things in ways others will understand and see the amazing connections many don't know about.
I'll therefore leave some sort of cosmic consciousness in the realm of speculation until such time as it becomes self evident or is falsified.
It is easy to see why people are tempted to believe that there is an super intellect out there somewhere. We think of consciousness as the pinnacle of of creation.
But more and more neuroscience is finding that the subconscious is where it all happens. The subconscious is full blown awareness and instinct. The consciousness is an aspect of the mind that can use tools like logic and reason to educate that instinctive mind.
Feelings/emotions come from the subconscious. Our best ideas come from there.
What happens when you want to learn a new skill? At first you have to do a lot of thinking and deliberating. But as you learn you find you no longer have to work so hard at it. The musician that has to think about the next note misses it. A skill becomes automatic once it is learned, and conscious deliberation about it at that time is a distraction.
Why did Moses think that every word he said came from god? It was because he didn't know consciously where his thoughts were coming from. He attributed them to an outside force. These ideas could not have come from him because he wasn't consciously working them out.
A musician or a writer will often heard saying that t he notes or the words just flow as if coming from outside themselves. Same thing. Our best ideas seem to come in a flash, as if they are gifts from out there. But they are from the subconscious.
Lets do a quick experiment. Without thinking too much about it, I want you to answer a rather simple math question.
If a ball and bat cost 1.10 and the bat is exactly one dollar more than the ball, how much is the ball?
Now it doesn't matter what the actual answer is so don't worry about getting it wrong.
The image you will likely get in your head will be that the ball is 10 cents. That, of course is wrong. But the subconscious will trow up that number in most people automatically. I think in tests done over 70 percent of physics students did what they were told and wrote the first thing that came to mind.
If you think about it you soon discover that 10 cents has to be wrong. But the conscious mind is lazy because it knows the subconscious will automatically give an answer. Even if that answer is not completely correct. it will be in t he ball park so to speak, and that's often good enough,
But if the subconscious is educated enough it will automatically wake the consciousness up and give urgency to the fact that deliberation is required. That's when the poor consciousness has work to do.
Mothers teaching their kids critical thinking in math seem to get the correct answer thrown at them almost right off the bat.
So is consciousness itself what is most important here? Or have we been missing the boat for the last few millennium?
Of course there is no real division between the conscious and the subconscious. They are aspects of the brain and it's function.
As for the writers of the bible, I have no doubt that they were philosophers of their time who were inspired by the idea of a god and felt that they were messengers of that god because they didn't realize that the messages were coming from their own minds. There is even a famous scientist of the early 1900s (who's name escapes me for the moment) who felt this way and wrote about it. The math was coming directly from god according to him, and he changed mathematics for ever He was pioneer in trying to describe an ultimate order through math, only to discover that certainty would elide him for his entire life.
We now know he had discovered chaos theory, from which the simple becomes the complex through extraordinarily simple rules.
Then there was Pythagoras who also claimed his math came straight from god. He even developed a secret cult around it.
Lots to learn and lots to think about. Lots to educate the subconscious with. Just in case we need it.
Even
.
I loved the prey slip as well. It is funny that I, not too long ago, had the same "slip" with the word parish. Christianity does not prey. Christianity prays. It is a life "offered" not demanded. There is so much to consider in life. One never quenches his thirst for knowledge. I have taken my stance because: 1. I have been raised around it (the "favored" term seems to be indoctrinated). 2. I have seen it work and unfold for the better part of my life. Christians are not different than others. If you cut us, do we not bleed? RED, let me add here
people are people. We all do wrong. We all have an issue with self. It is our nature. However, the spirit within us, works to create a "clean" heart. We can go to him with all of us. He will teach you how to deal with it for the rest of your days. If you don't want it, you are allowed to have it your way.It seems that your "understanding" is quite finite when compared to the subject at hand. You have not been "shown" that no such God exists; yet you persist that he does not. I will never knock you for that. You have a right to your opinions. But you use the word liar to describe me? What kind of "bull" is that?
you think that such a defaming word describes my character? So be it. Then, look into your recent past with me and find the lie. See, what has been "shown" to me is mine. You cannot call me a liar simply because i firmly believe that I have proof enough to back up my claims to myself. You mad??? Puzzling... Well, no it's not
I'm with you
lol... I got it right at least once.
I pray that from now on the correct prey will be on my fingertips.
Oooo, you said soul, duck!
This post, though extremely well articulated, is so full of fire. Just what you, and those who follow that thinking, are supppsed to think. It is well with me. I am not converting or recruiting. I am telling my story. God is light for me in all this darkness. You can have whatever you like, i am a soul-bearing Christian. My bible says, as a man thinks in his heart, he is.
So maybe that is what all the fighting is about, you have denied your souls. Zombie-like???
Takes one to know one!
God is not swayed by your disbelief. In my opinion, you breathe because if him. He made you like you are?
God is influenced by prayer. His infinite wisdom allows for deviation. I do believe that one biblical prayer stopped the rain for years.
God knows everything. He does not think as we do. He sees the entire picture. As we say in my neck of the woods, one monkey don't stop no show. His plan is carried out. He knows how to give us what we want without denting his plan.
- Awesome!
Now you know that some of us are slow to your game.
slow it down some. I really "literally" don't know what you said.Then you literally need to slow down, because I said it plainly.
You are all dieing -by Choice. Literally by choice and the choices you think about and believe you need to make.You, meaning the non and believing, who continue to play "the game" called Reason, called good-evil. To entertain yourselves while the game goes on: you evoke names, text, perfected memorized prayers -dictations, err, demands really. And then have the audacity -the nerve on both sides to call it faith or a lack of faith.
Ha! Most would not recognize faith if it came up, spit in their face and called them raka! Why? Foremost because their faith is fear.
Secondly, their faith is textual memorization and good-holyghost-preachin.
Lastly, because faith requires logic, not reason.
Faith requires dedication of action, not books and blabber {prayer}.
Faith demands practicality, start to finish follow through of just one thing: manifesting eternal life in each one.
There, slowed down enough for ya?
And to affirm is, Disappearinghead reiterates:
Huzzah! +Infinity. Could not have said this any better.
James
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago
0You know me. I think everyone is extra special.
But, it all comes down to wearing religion on your coat sleeve. The more vocal anyone is, it comes off more as 'look at me, look at me' than a relationship with anything.I can see what you mean. However, Jesus told his followers to tell everyone. We have instructions on how. We are to wear Christ on our sleeve. Our lights should shine brightly. Look at me, is another story. Some just really overdo it with religiosity to the max. We are humans first; then spiritual. None of us walk on clouds or live in bubbles. God sees the heart. Oh, and you think everyone is special essep me
now go on and get your red marker, I made a mi-stake
- MundaneMondaysposted 12 years ago0
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
I may be excitement!
And yet, there are many very happy people, millions, living happy lives without any gods. Go figure!
It's all one big jumbled mess in certain minds
anyone who doesn't believe in god is obviously a communist foreign agent who wants to destroy America Man Christians have been telling us the end is nigh for millenniums, there is a bearded nut who hangs out on my street and reminds me regularly when he isn't just gibbering unintelligibly. The repent or thou shalt suffer scared me stiff as a kid but it doesn't wash anymore
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Are those parents believers, too?
Funny how I keep hearing about believers children who are out of control, defiant, disobedient, etc. Perhaps, they are rebelling against their religious indoctrinations?Thanks, Emile. I am almost positive that my own mother received that message when I was 16
- Dead sounds good! we all went there, right? He will be fine, yes. Otherwise, check the news! Lol
- Jerry Hulseposted 12 years ago0
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
We shall meet again if God allows
The reading comprehension thing was funny and over-used. Christians can't read, obviously. Lol. I believe this one is dead. But soon, there'll be another. Later:)Contradict much?
Yes, indeed, you are funny
. We may not know God's thoughts unless he tells us. He told us what displeases him. So now we see who has problems synthesizing read materials.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Hi James
For sure, God is moved by belief. His forces in our lives work according to faith. You cannot receive from the father without acknowledgment, right? I know my father, Sir.
I, however, am not familiar with yours.-liar. He is not moved by human faith. Humans are moved by faith which consumes them into Him, not the other way around. -liar, again. One need not acknowledge any thing. One need only to walk with the Spirit, which is faith, which is truth.-liar, a third time. Now crows the rooster.-do you know what my Abba detests above all things, love? A lying/split tongue...
Pay attention, Eve. Soften your heart, stop milking and you just might experience everything you have memorized -and then some...
James.So why don't you tell me what happened in the garden that day, I know you were there. There was no order, dont eat or surely die??? No temptation to eat, no eating/disobeying??? Please give me the "correct" version of that story, Sir. Nevermind, I am not prepared for berry picking. Nevertheless, you challenge what? You don't want to listen to the bible anymore because you have found a "truth" that outweighs the biblical info that I have. Ok. I cannot interfere with that. Must you continue ranting about my "Eve-ness"? I am trying to leave it all behind.
I need the words of God. I know that he gave us those words in the bible as a guide or steer. Sheep w/o steer are unruly. God knows this. One mind. Not many different. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if we all just made up our own rules and called it God at work???
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
And yet, geology would show us how mountains and streams were formed, no gods were required. Evolution shows us how trees evolved, no gods were required.
Seems there is not one there to praise after all.Nor yours, me
unless of course that gravity, thermodynmics, dna and etc were created by god. Then of course, god would be essential to the creation of mountains, streams and trees.
cheersSounds "logical" enough to me.
- ahorsebackposted 12 years ago0
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Nice rant.
Mad? Me? have a cup of Tea!
Yes, I am nearly out of my mind. Good of you to finally notice.
Now, If the KOH is foreign to you, than sadly, you will not be able to enter into it.
Creator has hidden nothing from us. In fact, He made it clear he desires to reveal all things hidden -and watch closely, bring all things to our remembrance. That means humans forgot some things. A lot of things. But, the KOH brings that memory back. It is humans who hid -from jump street- from Creator and have been hiding ever since. {hello, Adam hiding behind a bush} Creator is out in the open for everyone to see. Always has been, always will. No peek-a-boo, no hide-n-seek, figure-it-out-if-you-can game. He gave us this information to commune with Him and be that image/likeness, meaning what He imagined and having His attributes within. And do not dare say He did not make man in His image/likeness or that that image is inept or lacking, because you would be lying, calling Creator a liar and what He created inferior.
Yes, above Reason man was created. Above Reason means above good-evil. Above and beyond right-wrong; yes-no. And you even confirmed it mentioning doing things automatically. It does not mean you do not know how to do those things, it means the Processor -the Brain- is doing what it was designed to, process Light. Where does that light come from? From inside, in the spirit. That spirit actually flows through your blood, but I cannot explain that right now. What I can explain is before Adam/Eve indulged their Brain -indulged Reason -indulged Thinking, their brain worked automatically and they understood how things worked. They were created to understand the entire planet. Versus theories of evolution or "Unga-bunga man make fire!". Man is the most intelligent creation Creator ever made. I highly doubt, for even one second, Creator would make man inept to His marvelous creations, void of information, when He purposely made man to govern ever edge of that creation AND to be the reflection of Himself.
Yes, the bible is a front to back account of what happened when man indulged Reason {good from evil}. He went Mad. The Inception -from Adam through Solomon -right up to work of Moshiach and even afterward, showing the difference between practical-faith {heart-knowledge} and doctrinal-fake {head knowledge}. The entire account sums up all the parts of Sin & Death like no other book can. What exactly do you think Passover was for, the Sea Parting, The Arc of the Covenant, the Dry Bones, the Cross, the Transfiguration with Moses and Elijah, the Resurrection, and the 2nd coming of the Spirit into man? Show and Tell? Magic Stories to tell your grand kids around the holographic iPad fire of the 22nd century? Or to assume the documents have power to thrust you into the KOH -or better, provide you a ticket to the Afterlife?
[btw Moshiach in Hebrew means Messiah, the Greek word Iesous, which you use as Jesus, is a pagan word for the son of Zeus. His real name would have been Y'shua ben Yosef or Joshua son of Joseph, commonly -but the titles given him are many, yes.]
Odd thing happened today. Was visited by a team -yes a team- of canvasing JW's. Nice people. Long story short, after 3 hours of conversation, they too were "blown away" by the same things I am saying to you. He and his wife agreed on many points, confused about others -especially about there being no Satan, no need for religion. But in spite of their dislikes and firm positions were willing to listen with an open heart. That surprised me and made me ask questions of them. What a great dialogue. By the end of the conversation they asked if they could come back and bring their friends -even their pastor- who would really be interested in listening what I said and could also answer questions I posed to them. I said, of course, while every single other neighbor who was "hit up" slammed the door shut in their faces: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, and others unknown to me. Why am I telling you this? Because I would like to have these same dialogues with you -as I do others here- versus the rambling/rant, "bible says" epilepsy.
James.Well, for me, our Exchanges go from one extreme to the other too quickly. Nothing personal. Pool will be enough
my imaginings and your imaginings are a little different. I have listened. But I aint hearin' nothin' . You have too much of something and not enough of the other. I understand your viewpoint. But to me, it is just not right. All of your ideas about humans being more than they actually are, human, are hard to get past. Our thoughts are not his thoughts. Our ways are not his ways. How can they be? Is a servant greater than his master? Is he even equal? God created us in his image, yes. But he did not reveal at least one secret to his own son. He told the garden dwellers, "Dont." and they reasoned to do. They said, nope, this way is better. But, they did not have all the info. They stepped out on their own KOH and drew back a nub. They disobeyed a direct command. You are fooling some folks. But they will be ok, if they read it and believe it for themselves. You are instructed by knowledge, it takes faith. Now i want you to leave!!! Let me grab your KOH for you. LOL
