The Bible....
The thread is titled The Bible
Do I read it, yes
Do I believe ,yes
To a doctor that has a duck portrait on the wall? I would think he is deliberately a quack doctor
Makes perfect sense to me
Well, I guess I was "forced" to learn things also. Surely everyone is? I mean - who wouldn't rather be out running around instead of learning boring crap like how computers work.
And the best lessons always seem to be the most painful ones. I don't believe in pushing anything on children either - just exposing them to as much as possible and allowing them to go their own way.
I certainly hated some of the things I was forced to learn, such as memorizing times tables. Only to discover later that I can do math in my head.LOL Cross-posted. Answering your rhetorical question - my kids will. As long as learning is not a pushed down routine, but fun that they structure for themselves, they do a lot of things voluntarily
Wow, quite a dialog you have here without me! A refreshing reading in religion forums
Have a few questions/remarks, surprisingly all for Mark
Mark, if you don't know any chemistry or electronics yourself and are fine without it (cause I think if you needed it, you would have learned it by now), why do you think your kids won't be fine without it?
Libraries are pretty good in USA, at least in the area I live in, and with the availability of Internet, basically all opinions on all topics are available without even leaving your home. Some practical lessons in chemistry and many other areas with a minimal creativity can be performed with the stuff available in stores, grocery and otherwise.
And watching my two younger kids, I am a strong believer now that it is best to let them learn at their own pace, cause when they are interested in the subject, learning process takes way less time and makes way more fun. Sasha at 5 is already building electric circuits, with absolutely no push from our side.
Just my 3 cents
Although I am fine without it, I am aware that it limits me in some ways. I would not wish to limit my kids in those ways, and I like to think I have an eye to the future - and the better one's knowledge in these areas, the more options one has.
They are pretty good in some areas but not in others. ANd there is no substitute for performing some experiment for yourself to really learn something. Sure - you could watch the google video of someone else growing a crystal - but that is still not quite the same as growing one for yourself.
No question. I am not suggesting a rigorous adherence to a curriculum, and I would never chastise one of my kids for not paying attention. Although - a really good teacher can generate attention where there was none. Forcing them to do something is counter-productive, but knowing it is there if you want it is constructive. And the more options they are exposed to, the more chance you have of catching their attention and interest.
Which is hard to do when your only teacher is your mom.Agreed, except for this one:
You don't need to go to school to grow a crystal. Glass, water, а piece of thread, and regular salt is all what you need. Sasha did it once already
Probably all basic chemical/physical experiments are like that. With a little creativity you can do them at home from widely available suppliesOh sure, I am more or less drifting with you.
But - currently you seem to be looking for reasons not to do, rather then for ways to do
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_tr … CategoriesLOL
Of course - because I do not believe I have the skills to spend 30 hours a week educating my kids to the proper level. But if you think you do, that is fine and ~ I don't blame you. If you would be happy with a teacher who speaks English as a second language teaching your kids about Milton and Hemingway, that is fine.LOL, ok, now we got to the literature stuff. If you ask me, I don't need anybody to teach my kids ABOUT any author or book. I just want them to READ and make their own conclusions. I am trying to bring up thinkers, not parrots
LOL
OK - If you think you can just pick up Milton and read him without needing help, I rest my case.
Seriously - some things need to be taught, and this is one of those areas I do feel competent to teach my kids about. If all it takes is reading something, then who needs to be taught anything except basic reading skills?
Just read Shakespeare and that is fine - what will you get out of it? That you do not quite understand what it means, how the sentences are constructed and what those strange sounding words mean in modern English and therefore it is boring and not worth reading.
No context needed, no explanation of how the language has changed, no explanation of the different social mores and the societal differences.
And Milton is even harder. But an understanding of these things give an insight in to the development of literature and writing and allows you to develop an appreciation for the subtlety behind the words.
les yu 'redy no it.So, do you attribute my current miserable life and disgusting personality to the fact that I never read Shakespeare in original and have absolutely no idea what Milton was? Do you think that if I correct these mistakes and urgently get some formal education in this area my life will dramatically change for good on the spot?
Or is it too late already? 
Cole, we do respect your experience! Nobody says that ALL kids have to be homeschooled, really.
Nor am I saying that ALL kids shouldn't be home-schooled. I just don't see the motivation to do so
Her motivation seems to be that she wants her children to grow up questioning "the norm" pushing boundaries, not just accepting what they're told, but asking "Why?". How can they do that if there isn't anyone to ask? It doesn't happen very often, because it doesn't need to, but I've flat out told teachers and professors for that matter, that there is more to what they're saying or "Actually..." and I'm not the only student to do so. My classmates and the teacher are better for it.Cole, you school looks really atypical to me. Granted, I never attended high school in this country, let alone recently, but based on what I see, hear, and read you are one lucky girl
Ah - she prefers to indoctrinate them herself then?
Difficult situation I agree. Not sure there is anything you could do. Most of the creationists I speak to are not open to the idea that scientific facts are not the same as "beliefs."
There are just too many things that I would have missed out on. I think taking one or two classes would have been just a tease.
Oh, we don't have any problem with that. We both are very tender guys, as long as not rubbed the wrong way
Couldn't have put it better myself - you sure you never read Shakespeare?
LOL I did not say I never read him - but I never read him in English
Misha - yes - I agree that I do not want that stuff indoctrinated into them either. This is the point I was trying to make earlier.
Bullshit values are different to knowledge.
I think it is possible to teach them genuine values at home while allowing them to be educated in knowledge at school. I do not honestly know for sure what is worse - limiting their potential access to knowledge by being their sole educator or risking their indoctrination into the value system you mentioned.
I suspect that is why there are so many private schools around.
And realistically, the TV and the internet are at least as responsible for the sort of indoctrination you are talking about. Why do you think the government Inc wants broadband access to every hick town in Kansas?I don't think we are too far here. Just I want to establish the values foundation first, and then I really don't care, with a good foundation they will survive any abuse in this area.
To my horror, private schools in USA are no different from public ones in terms of values, at least the ones available in my geographical area. We do have several friends with kids in different public and private schools, and heard quite a few stories of how they discipline the kids.
We managed to find a Montessori school, and had a great experience with Sasha over there, but the big part of this experience was due to his excellent teacher, who leaves the country this year unfortunately. We'll see how it goes, but based on what I saw so far I won't be surprised if we decide to terminate his school year early and revert back to full time homeschooling
TV is not an issue, we don't watch it at all for quite some time already. Internet is much better than TV or school in the sense that it has all the possible opinions on the matter listed, one just need to search to see all of them. I would say this rather encourages thinking for themselves LOL and this guy at his 5 years old already turns on a computer, starts a browser and picks his favorite cartoon/games site from the history list
Well, at that tender age I have experience with, they don't seriously teach any games yet here. And I have no idea how it is with older kids, sorry.
Oh, gotcha
Yep, I did not hear of personal sports being very popular anywhere in schools here. Team sports is the way to go. This is the way you bring up cannon fodder I guess...
I still have a lot of time ahead, and it is highly likely I'll move outta here in the nearest year or so
Country of course. All what keeps me here is my wives job. If she loses it for one or another reason, we don't have any legal grounds to stay here.
LOL thank you, we both liked France when we visited a while ago. Yet I doubt it is going to be any better than here.
I would say it is actually. The people have a long history of rising up in revolt against the government. At least, I have chosen it as my refuge from the coming "whateva"
Revolt is exactly what I don't want to live in the same country with
Oops, just when I thought we do have a peaceful thread on religion forums, albeit not exactly about religion.
Yeah. Not sure what's wrong with being clever
You sort of lost me Denys. Yes, Mark is very devoted to his opinions, but confronted by reasonable arguments he does change his mind. I've seen this not once here. The problem is most his opponents don't bother with making their arguments reasonable, and currently you are following that path.
Well, your definition of being open minded does not really fit mine, and I think does not fit Mark's. I will try to think how to explain to you better that your definition contradicts reasonable practices, can't really think of anything convincing right now.
And Mr Columbus definitely did not just jump on a ship, but did a serious research and convinced his sponsors with the results first.On a second thought, it did not look like you really wanted to understand this. Much more likely you just wanted to fight Mark. It's fun too, so good luck
Well, Columbus did keep journals as did many others of the time. His goal was not a "dream" of sailing round the world.
It was of finding an alternative route to India which would avoid going round the Cape and evade Spain's trading enemies thus making vast amounts of money for him, his backers and the Crown. The politics of the day meant that he could have found backers prepared to back him, but the Queen was against it for "personal" reasons - and what the Queen says, goes. Plus of course, the fact that by that time we had already discovered India and China and were beginning to seriously doubt that the earth was flat and ended somewhere abruptly.
He was banking on the earth being round - and prepared to gamble he was right because of the vast amount of potential income if he was correct.
Money money money......... makes the world go 'round.
I believe this is why native Americans were called "Indians."
- \Brenda Scullyposted 16 years ago
0 - No dear, as you noticed, with the context the meaning became very clear and logical.
Let me tell you the meaning of context.
a) You are going through brain surgery.
Now if i take the above statement (a) out of context and say that you are a mental patient by birth that's why you are having a brain surgery, it will be illogical. When you are having a brain surgery then there is a context, the context may be that you have struck your head against wall or the context may be that a decent person have punched your head repeatidly or the context may be that you are mentally sick by birth. NOW THAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF CONTEXT. Unless i get the context of your brain surgery it's illogical to give my own meaning and say that you are a mental patient by birth .
Salvation is known by many names in different cultures.... Nirvana and Moksha in Budhist/Hindu cultures.... If there is God then He/She/It surely would make everybody equally eligible... from the remote jungles in Africa to America.... not gonna be favorably disposed to only those who are "Saved".
@EagleKiwi Do you get "Budha/Krishna" said... everybody believes there part of the bargain to be the whole complete truth.... until we all die we can never know for sure... till then we can only speculate.
Well said .
Jon. If he isn't trying to proof that God doesn't exist (that's what I think he was saying), then forget about what I said.
I doubt that.
Panda ManIn that case your doubt is wrong.I was an atheist and gained enlightenment, so I never followed any religion or prophet as such.
The prophet have the same message as they are messengers of god.
@PandaMan I'm not sure if there is God... just because I don't know for sure I don't deny "God" either... I'm Catholic... but haven't been going to church for a while now...... and started reading eastern books which seem more universally applicable..... Karma makes more sense to me.. compared to being "saved".
@Mohitmisra Thanks Dude, still learning got hold of Gita recently.... heavy stuff- ellie1142545posted 16 years ago0
Glad you gave the answer you were looking for.
ciao
- annvansposted 16 years ago0
LOL
Anyone would think the Pope and King James were both heads of state.
Oh yes, that's right.......
"Do as you are told, live the way I say and despite the fact that I have all the money, and your life is shite, your reward will be after you die."
Jus a 3LOL statement this time Make Money.
I agree for the same reason Ron, that Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words have no correlating English words.
Yahweh or Jehovah being a good example. The Tetragrammaton is YHWH so vowels were added to make Yahweh or Jehovah pronounceable for God the Father but apparently neither are correct. Because the Jews did not utter the name of God the Father we have actually lost the correct pronunciation of God the Father from the Old Testament times.
But unless we can afford to buy a copy of the dead sea scrolls and learn how to speak Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic I think the Douay-Rheims and the King James Bibles are good translations into the language that we speak.
Ron the New Jerusalem Bible is a Catholic Bible but I still prefer the Douay-Rheims Bible simply because of the translation of Genesis 3:15. Here's the New Jerusalem, King James and Douay-Rheims versions of Genesis 3:15.
New Jerusalem Bible - Genesis 3:15
"I shall put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; it will bruise your head and you will strike its heel."
King James Bible - Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
Douay-Rheims Bible - Genesis 3:15
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."
Note how in the New Jerusalem and King James versions of Genesis 3:15 says the serpent shall bruise or strike his or it's heel. While the Douay-Rheims version says the serpent shall lie in wait for her heel.
I think the Douay-Rheims version is more accurate because the serpent did not bruise or strike Jesus' heel. Jesus was predestine to die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. The serpent had no control over it. Also the serpent was cast into the bottomless pit until he is let lose for a short period then is done away with. To me the Douay-Rheims version makes more sense here too because the serpent will lie in wait in the bottomless pit until his head is crushed.
By the way, Genesis 3:15 is the only verse that I have found so far that gives a slightly different meaning between the Douay-Rheims Bible and other Bibles.
Good morning curly.
It makes interesting reading, if only for the rather "creative," threats used for not having the word of god turn out the way it was supposed to.
I don't know where you might find a copy though.
Well, I suppose if god was giving instructions to the king of England.............
Not that he had his own agenda or anything. Nor did the pope. I am sure both of them lived a life of ultimate power over all they surveyed for altruistic reasons.
And yes, there was a a set of instructions from the king. I will see if I can find them online.HAHHAHAHAHAHAH ok.
thanx... I suppose I could google it myself, but I am lazy..
my whole issue is...whatever...it will take too long to type my issue. I am sure KJ had an agenda, and God (or whatever..) did not speak to him. I was raised in a severly strict house, with lots and lots of messed up religion.
Any new info is greatly appreciated.
- Thanks for the laugh.
That definitely will be an interesting reading Mark
Oddly enough - I cannot find a copy online, and it would be a pain to type out the physical copy I have because the only one I have is in the original words.
Make Money - do you know if it is online somewhere? I have to go do some work for a while.
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