Christianity doesnt make sense WHO AGREES?

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  1. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 15 years ago

    Christianity doesn’t make sense WHO AGREES?

    Paarsurrey says:

    The truthful Christianity does have a sense; it has following beliefs:

    1.    The Creator –God Allah YHWH in ONE; it has no partners. There is no truth in Trinity; it is a false belief.

    2.    Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; hence his fate was not that of Paul or Joseph Smith Jr., who got killed. Jesus was saved from a cursed death on Cross against all odds.

    3.    Jesus never resurrected Lazarus from the physical dead; he cured Lazarus from near-dead with his medicines and or praying to the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

    4.    Sins have nothing to do with the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross; this cruel sacrifice never got done; the sins are forgiven and or punished as was done from Adam to Jesus and afterwards; there is no change.

    5.    Jesus never went to skies and got seated on the right hand of the Creator-God Allah YHWH. He migrated from Judea in search of the twelve lost tribes of the House of Israel.

    What Paul invented at Rome and named it “Christianity” is a misnomer; it makes no sense and has nothing to do with Jesus or "true Christianity".

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Same with Muhammad, he invented Islam. It makes no sense.

      1. profile image51
        paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Hi friend

        Muhammad did not name it after his own name; he named it Islam. He was very clear at it.

        Paul named it "Christianity" after Christ; while it did not have anything to do with Christ.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Christ did not name Christianity after his own name, either.

          Islam is known as Muhammadism because he invented it. He was a murderer and a despot. smile

          1. profile image51
            paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend

            Jesus was follower of Moses and Torah; so he did not invent any religion.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. Beelzedad profile image61
              Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Muhammad invented Islam. You have rejected the truth and are being skeptical. Why are you skeptical?

            2. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Muhammad repeated an age old philosophy as well.

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Whats wrong with you paarsurrey?
      What a stupid thread to start.

  2. brandyBachmann profile image60
    brandyBachmannposted 15 years ago

    I think Christianity makes sense. (and all the great religions of our world) I think that Christianity wants us to be humane to our brothers and sisters,to do unto others as what we want others do unto us (something like that)plain and simple. What doesn't make sense is how most people take it and turn it into something that it's not.

    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend

      That is understandable.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. earnestshub profile image70
      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I would suggest studying the bible and finding out. smile

      1. Faybe Bay profile image69
        Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        There he is! I did a hub for our friend, Antecessor. It might be worth a look. I started with creation and ended with evolution. Think he might read?

        1. earnestshub profile image70
          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Faybe! Yes I would guess he would red it. The starting with creation bit may elicit a response! lol

          1. Faybe Bay profile image69
            Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Okay. I will e-mail it to you and you can pass it on, I know i's not supposed to be linked in here.

            1. earnestshub profile image70
              earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              I read it already, good world religious history! That is a good hub.

              1. Faybe Bay profile image69
                Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks. I like the part about fleas, Rather a flea than a Hybrid any day. lol

                1. earnestshub profile image70
                  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Fleas do have some advantages don't they? lol Needing something to live off makes them a wee bit vulnerable though, as none of their hosts seems very happy about having them round for dinner!

                  1. Faybe Bay profile image69
                    Faybe Bayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    True, which if we humans are fleas, and living on Mother/ Father Earths back, it makes sense he/she is trying so hard to kick us off. lol

  3. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 15 years ago

    loisryan said:

    Christianity means knowing that you are not perfect and knowing that God understands it-that's why he sent Jesus, and having a personal relationship with Jesus.

    Paarsurrey says:

    Jesus was only a servant of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; peronal relationship with Him should be developed.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  4. Danny R Hand profile image60
    Danny R Handposted 15 years ago

    Quantum physics does'nt make sense until you study it. So I would suggest studying a subject before you degrade it.

  5. Jerami profile image60
    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Paarsurrey says:

    Jesus was only a servant of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; peronal relationship with Him should be developed.
    =====================================
     
        As long as we know that Jesus was the Messiah fortold in the OT that was to sacrafice himself on the cross for out salvation; does it really matter if Jesus WAS God? Son Of God? Servant of God?  I don't care which of these you call Him.
       There is a place that is prepaired for all of us if we want it.  By any other name; A Rose is still a Rose.

       The Love of Christ by any name is still the Love of Christ.

       Pray to the God of Abraham, receive salvation of "Christ".
    Receive salvation through the "word of God".

    1. IntimatEvolution profile image74
      IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Jerami, I totally agree with you on this matter.  People sometimes get caught in the title of the man, and not the man.  Jesus was glorious. Jesus.  Son or not, he was truly unique and divine.

      1. Jerami profile image60
        Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Intimate E ... 
          I don't understand why so many people argue about the things that they do?

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image74
          IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I get caught up in that one.  Sometimes, when it is all said and done and I look back on something- I discover that the last 3 hours of my life was spent on pointless bantering.  Why?  I guess boredom.

          1. Jerami profile image60
            Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            we all seem to  I think that we may have to get that out of our system before we can move on to other larger issues. 
            At least I hope so??.

            1. IntimatEvolution profile image74
              IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Me too.

              1. profile image0
                getmybackposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                pardon me but

                me three

                billY

  6. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 15 years ago

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Jesus was only a servant of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; peronal relationship with Him should be developed.

     
    Jerami wrote:   

    As long as we know that Jesus was the Messiah fortold in the OT that was to sacrafice himself on the cross for out salvation; does it really matter if Jesus WAS God? Son Of God? Servant of God?  I don't care which of these you call Him.

    There is a place that is prepaired for all of us if we want it.  By any other name; A Rose is still a Rose.

    The Love of Christ by any name is still the Love of Christ.

    Pray to the God of Abraham, receive salvation of "Christ".
    Receive salvation through the "word of God".

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Salvation is dependent on believing in the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and not in Trinity.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Jerami profile image60
      Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think, that is what I said.

  7. Enlydia Listener profile image61
    Enlydia Listenerposted 15 years ago

    "deep calls unto deep"   "The natural man receives not the things of the spirit".   
    This is a foolish argument.  Of course Christianity doesn't make sense to the unbeliever...scripture says that is so.   It is not supposed to make sense, because it is only spiritually understood.
    Sorry to all who don't understand...you never will or ever can if you try to understand without the benefit of the Spirit.
    I do not mean to insult anyone by this...because this "problem" could be easily remedied.  I talk about this in Conversations...

  8. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago

    Seems your well versed in that quandary, my man Marcus.
    You are correct it is religion - any type of extreme ISM is.
    For and now against, a loathing wolf still hunts, still hungers.
    Even at the head of the curve, leading the pack - is still alone and still loathing his pride.

    smile I heart atheists lol

  9. tweetter profile image59
    tweetterposted 15 years ago

    nowadays i think islam is the best religion and it makes sense in every corner.

  10. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    The bible scare people? Why would it do that? lol

    From the "good book"

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

        Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)




        You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)




        "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



        A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



        Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    No attempt to frighten people there! lol lol lol

  11. profile image0
    ShadowKing!posted 15 years ago

    Much of what is taught in Christianity is tom foolery. But what is written in the original Greek & Hebrew of the Scriptures (unlike many English translations) is perfectly sensible. There is a huge difference. Research it, you might discover it too.

  12. liljen23 profile image77
    liljen23posted 15 years ago

    What is the world coming to? Every time I browse the forums it is always someone bashing Christianity..Do people not believe that the world can end at any moment and everyone will be judged for what they do and what they didn't do? I know that there is a GOD because if there wasn't it is no telling where the world would be or even myself.. It is like people are not even believing anymore, but this was said in Revelations in the Bible about people and their ways of foolishness..

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Limited thinking, along with limited vision. See what you religion has done to your ability to grasp things bigger than you? You claim to know there is a god, and I can make the same claim of knowing there is no god.

      And, believe it or not, if religion did not exist, there wouldn't be as much conflict as there happens to be today.

    2. SearchingForTruth profile image57
      SearchingForTruthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No I don't believe that the world is going to magically end at just any moment because a zombie spirit is going to mysteriously come "back" and take the believers who have eaten the body and blood of a dead man killed to save them all magically and have all the nonbelievers go through hell on earth for not bowing to the doctrine ... Sounds like a serious scare tactic to control the masses and if you honestly think this God is a wonderful and loving God why in the WORLD is He so hateful to those who don't believe in Him? Wake up! It's a scare tactic to control the impulse to self-preservation. If this doctrine hadn't been introduced you would have people killing each other to take over what others possess (which is not nice but I digress), and things would have fallen into a state of animalistic tendencies. Not ideal but it's life uninhibited by religious doctrine and LIES to control us.

      1. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        earnies sister is here lol

        1. earnestshub profile image70
          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Who is ernies? Bastardising my name without knowing how to spell it or it's origin is very childish, as is trying to caste aspersions on others who don't share your ridiculous beliefs.

          1. profile image0
            brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            golly how does one bastardize a name? Perhaps you can explain that too me. lol. Can't a guy have a little fun
            :loL: hmmm, i better see what the dictionary says before i get you to research anything:
            to lower in condition or worth; debase: hybrid works that neither preserve nor bastardize existing art forms.
            2.
            to declare or prove (someone) to be a bastard.
            3.
            Australian . to harass or humiliate as part of initiation into a college or regiment.
            Oh my it seems the auzzies have their own dictionary meanings! Perhaps you should have tried a bible written in australian or maybe that was the problem lol

      2. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  13. habee profile image82
    habeeposted 15 years ago

    Christianity makes good sense to me!

    1. Don Simkovich profile image60
      Don Simkovichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi habee, thanks for posting such a clear statement. I've wavered in my faith many times in the last few years. Yet, my favorite passages remain John 15 and Hebrews 9.

    2. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Only if you take portions of it. If you incorporate it all together than it makes no sense whatsoever. smile

    3. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Me too, Amen.

  14. habee profile image82
    habeeposted 15 years ago

    Thanks, Don. Good to see you!

  15. lucieanne profile image77
    lucieanneposted 15 years ago

    what I can't understand about the whole bible thing is this, (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - which I'm sure someone will)
    In the book of Genesis it says 'God created the heavens and the Earth - blah, blah, blah, in six days. and on the seventh he rested. Now we are told that these days are not 'real' days as we know days to be, but days of a thousand years. Am I right so far? And we are now living in God's 'rest' day. When the rest day is over we are gonna be seeing this Armageddon because we've messed things up because Eve ate the apple, and we developed free will. I'm going off course a bit here so bear with me.
    Going back to the beginning, The bible says that Moses and Noah lived to the grand old age of 900, give or take, so surely the 'rest' day would have been just about up by the time they went off to meet their maker?

  16. profile image0
    ShadowKing!posted 15 years ago

    Well, it's lack of Biblical understanding to say "Do people not believe that the world can end at any moment". That type of comment in highly present in Christian belief due to misguided teachings labeled under Christianity.
    1st, the Bible NEVER mentions the "world coming to an end at any moment". That's the talk of uneducated pastors & ministers & churchgoers. However, the Bible says, the 2nd Coming of Christ is "coming quickly" and that we don't know "what moment our Master will arrive".
    That's my grievance with Christianity (not the Bible) is that the strongest advocates of Christianity frequently get scriptural doctrines wrong.

    To Lucieanne:
    1. The 7 day creation example is what is called duality. 7 literal days to match 7 literal millenniums based on a verse in 2 Timothy (not sure if its 1st Tim.). The 7th day of Sabbath rest matches the 7th Millennium of Sabbatical rest.
    2. The 7th Millennium is the time Christ reigns on earth, that's with the Father can rest (not worry anymore about killing each other) because Christ & his angels are here to teach us real Law AND ORDER.
    3. I don't know what you believe in but don't be fooled by that 2012 crap of the "end of the world". 2012 is not the time Jesus returns nor is it the time the Great Tribulation begins. Remember this always the Bible clearly tells us that GT and 2nd Coming will catch the majority of the world OFF GUARD by surprise. So if half the world now believes or knows and is focused on 2012, does it seem likely they'll be surprised Jesus returned then?

    Test all things through logic and common sense, very few people have this.

    1. lucieanne profile image77
      lucieanneposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I am always searching for the truth. I recently wrote a hub on why I don't think the world will end in 2012. God won't allow it to happen. I struggle to believe in the bible because my own common sense tells me that a child cannot be conceived without the help of a (human) man. I cannot believe that a whale swallowed a man and after three days spat him out alive. that's just two examples off the top of my head.
      I also find it difficult to listen when people quote scriptures using the King James speech. No way did Jesus ever say 'verily I say unto thee' etc, and it makes me cringe to hear people quoting this crap. Therefore it annoys me that the scriptures havent been revised and an easier to understand version be brought out. I suspect that even if it was, the die-hards would still be quoting 'thee' and 'thou' because they truly believe that Jesus actually spoke like that

  17. azdp1 profile image61
    azdp1posted 15 years ago

    If God died for our sins, how come we still have to suffer?

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What are you suffering from? Just curious. hmm

      1. azdp1 profile image61
        azdp1posted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Long story. But why does anyone have to suffer if our sins are taken away?

        1. Cagsil profile image70
          Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not religious, so you'll have to get an answer from someone who is of some sort of religion. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to discuss it with you.

          However, I'm more inclined to take a different tact, one which probably wouldn't go over well, considering I am of the school of thought that says there is no god.

          I hope you get an answer. smile

  18. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    This may help to explain a lot of things. smile
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/god_boffins/

    1. azdp1 profile image61
      azdp1posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I have a high IQ, I have two college degrees and work professionally.
      I don't know if there is a god.
      I would fall into the agnostic category.
      So they polled a group of people, you can find validation to back any side you want. But that doesn't answer my question.

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Well, if an invisible sky fairy dunnit there may be an answer to your question. smile
        Some how I find that less likely than the FSM. smile

  19. Dave Mathews profile image62
    Dave Mathewsposted 15 years ago

    I would rather be a Christian with  a God who is love and believes in love rather than a Muslim who believes that in the name of their God it is Okay to strap a bobm onto oneself and blow up people or hijack planes filled with people and crash the planes into buildings killing those on the planes as well as those in the buildings.

    1. earnestshub profile image70
      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Ah, yes. Your god is much nicer! lol


      Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

          Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



      Kill Witches

          You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



      Kill Homosexuals
          "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)


      Kill Fortunetellers

          A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



      Death for Hitting Dad

          Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

      So much different to the quoran.
      NOT!
      smile

    2. SearchingForTruth profile image57
      SearchingForTruthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Such an amazing and wonderfully benevolent God - NOT!

      Mind you, Dave, this is the same God that I was raised to believe in, and I was told at age 8 that the sins of my mother and father were on my head and that I was going to hell because they didn't wed and wouldn't come to church together with me! Sadly I was going on my own just so I could learn more about this wonderfully benevolent God - amazing how disappointed I was!!

      1. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        and i had a bunch of bad teachers in school and i stopped going to school because all schools are the same and i'm not sure if they are teaching the truth, i mean after all isn't history written by the winners of the wars? and most of the complicated math is really just a theorem, isn't it? Oh, i will never attend another school because that grade 7 math teacher was so bossy and mean... I will just home school myself and see how far i will get!  -

        Welcome to school lol

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Funny how so many more students got through those same schools with the same teachers, without the same problems. Maybe, it wasn't the teachers or the schools that had the issues at all. wink

  20. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 15 years ago

    I believe in GOD, the things I can feel are most important to me, and I can feel it always in my heart that HE exists! so Christianity makes sense to me!

  21. Enlydia Listener profile image61
    Enlydia Listenerposted 15 years ago

    Here is my thought on how God created the earth in 7 days...or is it 6 and he rested on the 7th?   Nevermind.  My thinking is that it has something to do with the universe continually expanding...which means possibly that the speed of time changes...I think it is either speeding up or slowing down...though I haven't spent the time to figure that one out.
    But if a second was longer (or shorter) 6000 years ago...then the length of a day back then would of course be different than the length of a day in 2010.   Of course since no one really was here 6000 years ago, we have no way of comparing.
    This of course would explain why plants could grow from a seed to a tree in one day...and possible a baby to a man in a day...which is why the earth was able to populate so fast...of course as time changes (ever so minutely) we don't notice the changes from one day to the next.

    This is just a pre-thought...I would love any scientists to comment on this.

    1. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Time is not absolute, there is no universal clock. Time is measured relative to other clocks and is affected by velocity and gravity. It is termed as time dilation.

      For example, you are traveling at near light speeds in a spaceship. Your clock appears to be ticking normal, but if you observe a clock that is stationary on a passing planet, that clock will appear to be ticking very slowly.

      The same goes for gravity. If you're way out in space and you observe a clock on the surface of a planet, it will be ticking slower due to the gravity difference between you and the surface of the planet.

      All GPS satellites have been programed for both of these time dilation phenomenon. If they weren't, no GPS unit would ever work properly.

      Hope that helps. smile

  22. lucieanne profile image77
    lucieanneposted 15 years ago

    You know what? We can debate this whole God/Christianity/Muslim thing until we are all blue in the face, and there will never come a time when everyone agrees. It's all a bit silly really considering that Jesus supposedly came to take away our sins and give us a passage into heaven. We will all be sinners until the day we die. The terrorists, gays, shoplifters, prostitutes, tax evaders, drug dealers (and abusers) wife-beaters kiddy fiddlers, adulterers, liars, petty criminals, non believers, belivers, etcetera etcetera - we are ALL gonna die one day, and there aint no coming back!
    The majority of us who don't do anything really bad are going to exactly the same place as these big-time sinners. The only difference is we are going to leave this world with a clean concience, having possibly done a few good things to pass on to our offspring. If God is there, he must look at us as a huge dissapointment. Whether we choose to believe in the holy book or not, it does set out a code of ethics we would do well to follow. I Believe God is there - if we choose to look for him/her/it. The human race is destroying itslf through greed and power hunger, materialism and selfishness. In short we are getting too big for our boots. Wars will continue to rage indefinitely - we only have to read the threads on here to see that. In my opinion (for what it's worth) It would be a good thing if the Almighty creator did step in and say 'Enough is enough.' The human race is the only species on the planet that is actively destroying it (and each other)and when we do finally destroy it, we will only have ourselves to blame.

    1. SearchingForTruth profile image57
      SearchingForTruthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      True but we enjoy debating - gives us a chance to express our feelings and beliefs and find those with like mindedness - a sense of (dare I say it) "brotherhood". Also we just really like shooting down the views of those who are confined by the bible and all that it conveys. We are not "sheeple" and we refuse to be cottoned into the view that we must submit to this Dom-ish all-knowing "Master" God like good little slaves or He'll kill us. For the love of all things, people, wake up.

  23. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    No god is helping or destroying anybody.

    The one eyed psychotic view from the bible is just more reflection of the human condition. The O.T and the NT reflect the good and bad aspects of this. That is all they do, they are not truth, they are mostly neurotic in nature, with much of the ot delving into it's god's pathological psychosis.

    We know what causes aggression, hate, love, decency, hurt, fear, they are all demonstrably moveable with changes in brain chemistry.

    A better uptake and regulation of serotonin and dopamine is all that is required, but even if we complete the current brain chemistry science to better regulate, how do you get a damaged person to recognised that damage and then fix themselves?
    I believe that is the real question.

    1. profile image0
      Bubbooposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hello earnest,  I see that you think God is an evil god where I see Him as a very loving and PATIENT God.  God performed many miracles to rescue His people from Egypt as well as provide all of there needs.  Each time He did so they would return to their pagan gods.  They did not appreciate anything that God had done.  I don't know if you have a son or not, but let's say you do.  Your son is always in trouble and he is always getting himself into a bind.  You always come to his rescue and every time you do he spits in your face. How long do you think you could tolerate this?  Not as long as God did or does for that matter.  I am not judging you by any means, but anyone who denies His existence is not very pleasing to Him, yet He still allows you to live.  I would say He has patience and love beyond our wildest imagination.  I pray that you may see His love for you before it is too late.

      God Bless

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        If you had read my one hub on religion you would know that I find your comment to be what it is. Condescending.


        When you tell me to "see his love before it's too late." You are  assuming a superior knowledge and a better understanding of religion than I have. I challenge that. smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Pretty hypocritical also. I wonder if they are even aware of what they are writing?



          I have come to the conclusion that religion rots your brain to such an extent that followers are incapable of seeing the obvious contradiction in, "I am not judging you, but....................."

          And the implied threat - before it is too late.

          What a loving and PATIENT god to put up with you for this long. sad

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I have come to the conclusion that these people don't really love this god but they believe if they want to live, they have to love it or die.

            I also think it rots their brains and does cause conflict, not just in themselves but in others because of they do actually personify that god who says, love but means if you don't love me, I kill you. lol.

            I really honestly believe that their root is fear and that if they really took a good look at the things they think they believe in, the picture it would paint for them would terrify them to their core.

            With that, they cheer, Yeah we fear god! Woot, like it is some glorious thing.  Even when you read, "God regards humans as nothing."  They still say, Yeahhh!!! God love us. 

            It makes me want to barf.  I am done trying to sympathize with them because, like you, even pointing it out to them in the only context they regard as 'ruth', which is the Bible, they just refuse to look at it.  And when you have made it so clear to the point where there is no argument left where they are forced to see it, they say.  So what, I know the truth and God still wins.

            1. Misha profile image68
              Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Hear, hear... smile Welcome back to reason My Goddess, it's been a long wait smile

              1. profile image0
                sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I know Misha.  I always figure it is best to walk in thine shoes first before I tell someone that if you keep walking in shoes that don't fit, it causes blisters. big_smile

                1. Misha profile image68
                  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Yep, there is nothing more convincing than personal experience smile

            2. earnestshub profile image70
              earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Sandra. I have enjoyed reading this honest post. I am very impressed! smile

      2. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        I would whisper in his brothers ear to build and ark, put all his worldly possessions on it and watch as I rain down and drown his brother in a flood. 

        Maybe a pillar of salt is easier. smile

        1. Jerami profile image60
          Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hay brother; can you loan em a grand before the rains comes???

  24. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Christianity doesnt make sense WHO AGREES?

    Christianity does not make sense as it follows Paul and Church who deviated from the path Jesus and Mary treaded on.

    Thanks

    1. writealready profile image59
      writealreadyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What religion does make sense?

      1. profile image51
        paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Hi friend  writealready

        Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus were truthful in origin and did make sese; till their followers in their name lost the original Word Revealed and its truthful meanings.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  25. wilmiers77 profile image60
    wilmiers77posted 14 years ago

    Mark, are you going to deny that you used the term fairy tale again? Caught you! Once again, fairy tales have value; passed from generation to generation for a reason.

    No, I suggest that you extend your search for the documentation of Jesus of Nazareth and His crucifixion.  They exist.

    1. Misha profile image68
      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why don't you link to them then? I would be curious to look, if they really do exist. smile

      1. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Because Misha, the Vatican has locked up the scriptures, so as to be the only ones access to them. Including historical references in Roman history with regards to him. Only specific access is granted to them. wink

        1. profile image51
          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hi friends

          Vatican would have locked it as they know it cannot stand the analysis of present times. They don't have anything substantive.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        2. Jerami profile image60
          Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is absolutely true.  From its conception,and through the last Crucade, the Church of The Roman Empire collected every document that they could find concerning Jesus' teachings and all others that was not harmonous whith their agenda.

             Seems like I read that the "Private" library is about an acre of files.   How many secrets do ya think are in there?

          1. Deaconess profile image61
            Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I would love to see those!

          2. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I think ya would not be so happy to discover what is in the secret files Jerami. Seems to me - they had some evidence in favor of Jesus actually existing - they would be sticking it to us - don't ya think? wink

            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Nobody wants to prove jesus. The catholics have raised mary above jesus. Islam doesn't respect jesus deity. In some countries just to mention jesus is a live threatening situation.
              Who would want to prove jesus?
              Things are fine the way they are. The evidence in the files might actually be proof of jesus existance and this is something even catholics do not want. Do you not find it odd how, christians are to walk by faith and here is a man doing wonderful miracles, etc.. the calendar is changed at the same time and there is no concrete proof to ruin the walk by faith that christians are supposed to do.
              It fits perfectly that there is no or little evidence jesus existed. God does not overlook anything.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Sure - that is why you were arguing that there is evidence - which then proved false. wink

                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Both sides of the fence is debateable. There is some out in the open and maybe, these secret files contain evidence as well. Neither proved false.

        3. Misha profile image68
          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Ah, so this is all lies and BS. Why I am not surprised?

      2. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        quite simply. they do not exist. Same for jesus, no proof he was ever here, same for prayer, billions of prayers, not one single prayer result proven in 2000 years.

  26. Era Pteros profile image63
    Era Pterosposted 14 years ago

    So when did they make Jesus up then?

  27. Jerami profile image60
    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    Mark Knowles wrote:

    I think ya would not be so happy to discover what is in the secret files Jerami. Seems to me - they had some evidence in favor of Jesus actually existing - they would be sticking it to us - don't ya think?

    -----------------------------------------


    ME  .....  You haven't heard a  thing that I have been saying for the past 13 months..

       I believe that the Catholic Church is the Beast mentioned in Rev. 13.  This beast will/did  create a coppy-cat religion that is so convincing that it might fool even the very elect if that is possible.  And it broke up into different denominations.

       It hides the records because it does not want everyone to know the fulfillment of prophesy began a long time ago and is soon to be all over.

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Jerami, would you be surprised to learn that the prophesy you claim to be coming, has already happened, long before you were even born? hmm

      1. Jerami profile image60
        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Not at all!!  That is what I hav been saying all along.

          There are only a couple of them that haven't been fulfilled.

          Seventh trumpet and seventh vial judgment.

          2nd coming?  It came and went just as Jesus said that it would. During that generation that was standing before him.
         
          Is that what you were sudgesting??

        1. Cagsil profile image70
          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I am suggesting to not take anything Paul said in the NT at face value, because Paul used a literal translation and not a metaphorical understanding.

          Not to mention, that the actual penmanship of the scriptures with regards to the NT were not done for some 60 years after Jesus was executed.

          It's unfortunate, that I'm unable to tell you where I received that information, but my research found that the apostles were waiting and waiting for the resurrection to occur, so long that they began to die and realized that they had to pen as much as they could remember of Jesus, so as to keep it from getting lost. Not to mention, I found out that two apostles actually copied from another. wink Thus, destroying the accounts of witnessing of anything.

          Thus, Christianity was born so much time after the death of Jesus. smile

    2. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I have been hearing everything you say Jerami.

      Sadly - I think it is complete nonsense and I do not agree with any of it - it is simply blind faith, and/or defending your religion (why it would need defending is beyond me) and very much answers the question "Christianity doesn't make sense WHO AGREES?" sad

      But - everything you say is extremely good at distracting from the fact that your religion is irrational nonsense - doesn't it? I mean - let's talk about prophecy and the fact that you think 50% of the so-called "Christians" are working for the bad guy. lol

      Try this revelation instead - Christianity is the beast that divides and conquers. Man did they ever get the amount of heads miscalculated though. wink

      1. Jerami profile image60
        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        "If" the first Beast mentioned in Rev. 13 did in fact rise up out of the sea in 326 AD ? 
          That would explain why religion doesn't make sense to you ...  and  ...  why all the pieces of the puzzle does not all fit together! 
          Some of the pieces have been taken out with others substituted.
          It just don't make sense the way that it has been explained.

           But it does make sense; "if" that beast did rise up in 326 AD.

          And all the pieces do fit quite nicely

  28. aguasilver profile image75
    aguasilverposted 14 years ago

    I agree, Christianity does not make sense to those who are blind to Christ.... pretty obvious really, just like quantum physics makes no sense to me, for my math is rudimentary at best, and I have no interest in quantum physics.

    Therefore, I would not choose to get into a debate with someone who understood quantum physics... so why do all these folk who don't understand Christ want to keep grinding out the same old drivel?

    1. profile image49
      Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe deep down there hoping to be connvinced?.

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        or maybe they rightly believe that obeying other peoples fairies is a nonsense and they are amazed that people could still believe in it? smile

        1. profile image49
          Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          If there "fairies" give them a sence of self-worth who are we to deny them.

          1. earnestshub profile image70
            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            True, not our problem. smile I find religion to be a problem though. A problem that effects the entire planet. smile
            The world would be a better place without any of it in my view. smile

            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              So you are starting to change the world to your view one hubpages at a time lollol
              You talk about what christians preach but what do you preach? You see a problem and its your absolute duty to perpetuate a destroying attitude to make the problem that you see, everybody elses' problem.
              Perhaps the big problem you see, is not everybody else's problem, you only go about putting the problem you see onto everyone else and if they don't listen you will resort to name calling their god and calling it rubbish. I am so glad the world is in your hands. I always figured you wanted to be a dictator.

            2. profile image49
              Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Intolerance and greed are what effect the planet and these traits are part of society as a whole not just religions.

              1. earnestshub profile image70
                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Religious zealots control the lives of most free nations on the planet today, including the USA, Australia, England. We all have laws to protect us against terrorists.
                Fundamentalists of all persuasions are dangerous.

                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  there you go again with "your perceived problem". If you were to travel around and check out these churches you say are so bad you would see a bunch of people having a really great time. If you stayed away from these forums, you yourself would once again have a really good time. The only reason fundamentalists are a problem is because your big nose is where it shouldn't be, stuck in the middle of a fundamentalists forum, invading a peaceful christian thread. So you walk in areas where you have no understanding, compassion or attitude for rational debate and you say "these people are a problem". We look up from our study books and see only that the loud noise has come from you.
                  What is the definition for insanity?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Title of the thread:

                    "Christianity doesn't make sense WHO AGREES?"

                    Too lazy to read it huh? wink

                  2. someonewhoknows profile image73
                    someonewhoknowsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    you need to take your own advice.The title of this forum is self explanitory.You are either a fundimentalist who dislikes anyone who is not a fundamentalist christian or otherwise.I was brought up as a Roman Catholic yet I do not worship nor do I believe in any  religion.I do however belive there is a higher intelligence that created us and everything we experiance.I do not regret knowing about the various religions and the similarities they all have,but I am in no way a blind follower and never will be.Any group I might follow is one of rationality rather than just emotional enticements designed to attract those with  emotional weaknesses.

                  3. earnestshub profile image70
                    earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    The definition of insanity is at least in part worshipping invisible entities, especially psycho ones. smile

              2. Pcunix profile image84
                Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Funny - I have never heard of an intolerant Humanist.

                Could it be - gasp! - that some religions encourage intolerance?  Naaaw, that couldn't be it.

                1. earnestshub profile image70
                  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Nah! That couldn't be it. smile

    2. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lol
      I know eh, Their blindness is obvious and their tactics as unloving as ours are claimed to be. Yet their zeal toward disruption is quite impressive although tiring. I guess some people if they don't evolve or go forward they get stuck, like a broken record. Armed with only a few rounds of ammo, they have to use them over and over again.
      Its sooo cute they believe what they believe. Too bad they miss all the pearls we throw at them.

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I just think it is cute that no matter how you try to besmirch others with your ignorant passive abuse, you keep showing who you are. That is amusing the hell outta me! lol lol lol

        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This is sooo cute too. lol.

          1. the pink umbrella profile image74
            the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            i really cant get over the creepy feeling i get when i see your profile picture...

            1. Cagsil profile image70
              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              lol lol

            2. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              I won't even look at your profile pic. I'm not sure what you're trying to advertise

              1. the pink umbrella profile image74
                the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                im really not being mean, your profile pic creeps me out. As for me, i like my picture, its the best picture ive ever taken of myself!  Im not advertising anything. ....are you calling me a harlot?

                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  nope. Just walkin my walk. Of course i took a little offense, not an easy thing to hear. I suppose i looked better when i was younger. You knocked a lot of credibility i had established or was establishing with that comment and really i thought i had been quite nice to you, so forgive me if i don't say thanks for that and i do wish you would put on a shirt.

                  1. SearchingForTruth profile image57
                    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Sadly a woman whose "parts" are covered decently makes you blush once she makes an open observation - you feel the need to attack her physical appearance just because your feelings are hurt and in the process of grasping at straws in how to get back at her, you decide to harp on her choice of a top.

                    She did not destroy your credibility - you did that all by yourself.

  29. ocoonocoon profile image69
    ocoonocoonposted 14 years ago

    The very appeal of a belief system is that it doesn't make sense. After all, can human beings ever face up to what the world is really like?

    1. someonewhoknows profile image73
      someonewhoknowsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Knowledge is subjective as well as objective. Like the saying goes-" Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Knowledge is objective.  If knowledge were subjective then knowledge only lives as a shadow on the wall. -quote me, Sandra Rinck. big_smile

    2. Flightkeeper profile image69
      Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Very true, if you listen to the Christian destroyers, they don't believe in a god but they do believe in the Magic Combustion! lol

      1. luvpassion profile image61
        luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Christian destroyers...sounds like a heavy metal rock-band or something big_smile

        1. Flightkeeper profile image69
          Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think that's their next step.  They'll probably write a song about the Mystical Dynamite that rocked the universe. lol

          1. luvpassion profile image61
            luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Cosmologists have been playing that song for years...haven't you heard it?  big_smile

            1. Flightkeeper profile image69
              Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, it has been discussed in science class.  But I think what they want to do is embark on the Mystical Dynamite Mystery Tour and have massive sing-a-longs.  They hope to grow a movement out of it. big_smile

  30. MissE profile image78
    MissEposted 14 years ago

    One word...FAITH either you got it....or ya don't.  To each his own.

  31. SearchingForTruth profile image57
    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years ago

    It's amazing how some people heard the rumor of a wondrous "God" and suddenly reports are cropping up throughout multiple regions about "visions" and "encounters" ...

    Why in the bible does it state that men can claim their future brides when they are still children and in some cases that includes bedding them? I was shown this several years ago and it thoroughly shocked me, a visiting "religious" friend opened their bible and literally pointed out the passage that refers to this yet I cannot find it for the life of me.

    I remember the words though - it startled me and made quite the impression - so does anyone else know what passage I'm referring to? I would like to find it again and read it in more depth - maybe I misunderstood something.

    That passage made me literally hate Christianity for the way it made men seem ok for bedding female children under the guise of "claiming" them as their future wives under the name of God. Last I checked, that's pedophilia.

    I've always balked at the idea that there's some all-important invisible force that's governing our millions of daily deeds and somehow going to use them against us when we die. The bible-thumpers may hate me for it but that's just my opinion. Christianity never made sense to me at all. Imagine being told at 8 years old that you're going to go to hell because your parents won't marry each other and they won't attend church with you, and their sin is on your shoulders for all eternity --- yet in the sermon being told that God is an ever-loving and peaceful God. Pure bull in my opinion.

    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      the hymen and the state of virginity was of tantamount importance

  32. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Nice to see some common sense posts. smile

  33. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    That's where the blind religious insanity comes in.

    You do not have a little fun, you caste aspersions on people in the belief that makes you somehow better.

    My country as an argument? My name changed?

    Not funny, not intelligent. Just sad narrow minded childish crud. smile

    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      CRUD:
      a deposit or coating of refuse or of an impure or alien substance; muck.
      b.a filthy, repulsive, or contemptible person.
      c.something that is worthless, objectionable, or contemptible.
      d.prevarication, exaggeration, or flattery.

      crud cannot be funny or intelligent or narrow minded or childish; by definition

      lol lol now that was funny

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You can read a dictionary, great! Crud is also in common use as bulldust. smile

        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yah, cobbie, like we have bulldust over here in the other part of the world... lol  What was your point, as usual i find myself asking that question again

          1. earnestshub profile image70
            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not surprised! That Australian word you are looking for would be cobber. smile

  34. thirdmillenium profile image61
    thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago

    How many of the nay-sayers have actually read AND know the ACTUAL meanings of the words and incidences?


    For instance, Christ did not mean Peter at all when said he would build his church on him (Peter)? He meant himself

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      A larger percentage than the yay-sayers I would guess. Some one recently likened the X-tian religion to signing a TOS agreement - no one reads it - they just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree." wink

      See 2,000 years of fighting over what it ACTUALLY SAYS. wink

  35. thirdmillenium profile image61
    thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago

    See 2,000 years of fighting over what it ACTUALLY SAYS. wink



    This the problem with so called Christians but more than them, the nay-sayers. They do not even feign knowing the actual meaning but argue for argument's sake.
    There is no end to this pointless debate.
    You have your belief and some one else has his.
    The twain shall never meet

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Really? You insult my intelligence by suggesting I do not know the actual meaning when I spend all my time telling self-professed christians that my problem with their religion is the fact that 1, they do not know what their book says and 2, they do not follow what they claim it says in any case.

      That is the problem with yay-sayers like yourself - you think you have all the answers and do not read anything else. Which is another reason I do not like your ridiculous belief system - it teaches hubris, laziness and an inability to develop a system of ethics you are prepared to adhere to.

      Case in point - instead of acknowledging the fact that it has caused 2,000 years of wars over "interpretation," - the real problem is the nay-sayers.

      Try listening to what other people say instead of just attacking them for not believing the nonsense you believe. I know exactly what your book says - despite the fact that it has been mangled beyond recognition.

      Guess you just want to attack and fight huh? Like what your book says to do? lol lol

      1. thirdmillenium profile image61
        thirdmilleniumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Come on MARK,  it is not true i do not read anything else.
        See, I read your your profound-to-eternity theory just now?

  36. thirdmillenium profile image61
    thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago

    And, It never ceases to amaze me how the non-believers come preying on the believers. I mean, why do they do it? What do they hope to achieve? Convert them to their way of thinking? Why do it? What do they get out of it? Some superficial satisfaction that lets them say, "See, I told you!" ?

    I repeat, the twain shall never meet

    1. earnestshub profile image70
      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No, it's not to say I told you so, it is to stop fantasy parading as fact from going unchallenged. smile

      1. thirdmillenium profile image61
        thirdmilleniumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        How do you say it is fantasy? There are any number of actual proofs. Now you will simply ask me to prvide you the proof on a platter.
        No, you search the net for proofs near your place of residence. There are bound to be some or many. You must make it a point to visit them and find out for yourself.
        Because you can not let the fantasy statements go unchallenged.

        1. earnestshub profile image70
          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Not one piece of evidence or any proof exists, even after 2,000 years of this bull. smile
          You have no evidence, Zilch, nothing. smile

  37. SearchingForTruth profile image57
    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years ago

    You know, you call me Earnie's Sister ... I am glad to know that I am associated with level-headed people such as Earnest and Mark. Seriously - you couldn't have afforded me a better honor. Thank you.

    ~However~

    It is amazing to see the religious propaganda spewed forth here and yet also see it said that we who do not believe as you do are attempting to force our beliefs on you ... Take a closer look at the double-edged sword you are attempting to wield.

    I am not atheist - I am agnostic. I state that for a very specific reason - I do not believe in God, *however* I do believe that there are energies we cannot see or even BEGIN to fathom that make up our awareness of life as we know it today. It is what separates us from the animals that walk the Earth with lower awareness. I know who I am and what I believe in, and I also know that I don't need an invisible mighty being that knows everything and will condemn me to hell, for me to live my life in a respectable and genteel way. Religion is one of the only two subjects that can seriously aggravate me and the other regards minors being exploited.

    The Bible as we know it today has been amended numerous times throughout history, from the first days of the "books" coming together by word of mouth (seriously how many people do you know who can pass on a story they were told word for word and not screw something up?) to the days we see now with the various versions cropping up in print. Add to that the Jewish Bible and you start to see more of the original stories ... you do realize you are promoting a religion that deemed it socially acceptable for a male to stake claim by bedding his future wife as young as 3 years and one day old, don't you? You also realize that killing in the name of God was promoted in the Bible and yet it violates the amendment "Thou Shalt Not Kill"? Basically pedophilia and killing is ok as long as it's done in the name of God ... right. (put both books together and read them as one ... this isn't a conspiracy, just offering some of that sought-after "enlightenment" ...)

    If I were to pore through the bible AGAIN, like I've done countless times already trying to reconcile the numerous contradictions that literally pepper the pages, millions of people are automatically in condemnation for cutting their hair as is noted in the story of Samson. You can't tell me that I should follow this invisible God and that the Bible is the word of said God, and expect me to think this is ok ... pedophilia, killing, desecrating the temple of God by cutting your freakin hair ... Give me a break! When I need someone to tell me what to do or how to live my life, I'll turn to my husband, thank you. Always remember from your own book in regards to us providing our opinions on this subject ... "Ask and ye shall receive." "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Have a nice day.

  38. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    That was a nice level headed reply SearchingForTruth!

    Thank you for the compliment. smile

  39. profile image51
    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Christianity doesnt make sense WHO AGREES?

    Jesus did make sense and all he spoke;till Paul invented Christianity and it lost sense. Church followed Paul not Jesus.

    1. earnestshub profile image70
      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You follow a bunch of lying old goat herders repeating and modifying old stories that came before them you mean. smile

  40. SearchingForTruth profile image57
    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years ago

    Jerami - that nearly echoes my view of the driving life-force I believe inhabits us all. To call this force "God" and personify it with attributes of a human is not only fallacy, it is attempting to define the undefinable. At best, the definition of this life-force is that it drives us to be our best, to dream, live, love and achieve. It is a higher awareness of oneself and the surroundings we are in. It is what separates us from the animals walking this planet.

    Science is the exploration of this life-force. Religion is the exploration of faith. Sure, I see the stars and I hear astronomers talk about scientific exploration of space - have I seen other planets with my own eyes? No. Have I seen photographs and images of other galaxies and marvels beyond my understanding? Every day. On the other hand, defining life as God is more difficult. This is an attempt to personify something and define it when nobody really knows. You can't see "it", taste "it", smell "it", touch "it", or hear "it" ... yet "it" is defined as God. I cannot trust in doctrine that attempts to define the undefinable. We are mere humans, capable of understanding and researching those things which we touch and can explore with our bodily senses, but something that massive and ever-changing ... that's impossible.

    To attempt to say that people had visions and that they must be right and true divine intervention is attempting to talk madness to me. Many people have had visions over the years since human consciousness has existed, and not all of them were exactly pleasant. Sounds more like a popular story that gained a following, and over the years of being passed down, had more people claiming visions, supplementing stories to make them more plausible and/or more interesting, eventually being written down and now being used to attempt to convince all atheists, agnostics and questioning people that they are wrong and this Bible is pure divine truth just because men from way back when claimed it was.

    From the beginning of human consciousness, we have always needed guidelines on how to act, lest we were to kill ourselves out and eradicate humanity entirely. smile Stories like this gained far more popularity as time went on, with people claiming healing due to this deity and peace due to that one. It calms people and makes them feel safe and secure knowing that there's an answer to everything laid out right before them in a book. I agree that a lot of the teachings in regards to treating our fellow humans with dignity and respect are a good idea for us to follow, but do not tell me it's because of a humanistic God who will condemn us all if we turn away from Him.

    FYI I was raised Baptist Christian, used to revivals and holiness baptist preaching. I believed as much as my little heart could possibly believe. I didn't want to offend this "God" for fear of being in hell for eternity. I began to read the Bible regularly and nearly nonstop. The more I read, the more it didn't make sense. The more that contradicted itself, the more unsettled I became. At 8 years old I began to look into the other religions and research them as much as I was capable of. What I found astounded me. These stories that were passed on by word of mouth before being written down had been adapted to each religion as each had chosen what they believed.

    The basis was always the same - defining the force behind humanity. The force that made us as intelligent and aware as we can be about our existences. Defining how we should act, how we should treat others, and the consequences that would take place should we refuse to submit and live by the doctrine. Each religion is different in ways, but all believe in that one divine entity, regardless of how it is named. All attempt to define that force. All attempt to set forth rules and guidelines to follow, and a few people in each religion are always trying to kill and/or persecute others for not believing as they do.

    You can't attempt to define the undefinable. It is bigger than anything you or I can even attempt to understand or explain. Exist, and be glad you do. This force is in everything that lives and grows, but it's not an invisible man in the sky who is all knowing (make people think that even when they're completely alone that God can see and hear them and what's in their hearts and minds = guaranteed to freak them out and make them avoid whatever they were planning), all seeing (same as last part ... who wants someone watching them 24/7 ... it's creepy), and who loves you unconditionally until you question the religion.

    Live your lives attuned to the good you should do on your own, be a mature and respectful adult, and read more into those books you tout as being the infallible word of God. If you would, you would also see that each verse is basically prose defining actions and thoughts and emotions that occur in the human mind and body. It is a way to carry yourself and treat others. It is not a dictatorship ruled over by an invisible deity.

  41. libby101a profile image61
    libby101aposted 14 years ago

    Wow! I am blown away by so many people who dismiss the very one who created them! First, if I am wrong then I have nothing to lose! But if you are wrong, you have eternity to think about it.

    To a poster who said where is the proof that Jesus died on the cross: there is proof. I have studied all the evidence of such proof. Here is a pagan historian, hostile to Christianity, who had access to records about what happened to Jesus Christ. Mention of Jesus can also be found in Jewish Rabbinical writings from what is known as the Tannaitic period, between 70-200 A.D. In Sanhedrin 43a it says:

    "Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, 'He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whoever has anything to say in his defence, let him come and declare it.' As nothing was brought forward in his defence, he was hanged on Passover Eve."

    That there is any mention of Jesus at all is unususal. As far as the Roman world was concerned, Jesus was a nobody who live in an insignificant province, sentenced to death by a minor procurator.

    The Roman historian Tacitus writing between 115-117 A.D. had this to say:

    "They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh-not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home." From his Annals, xv. 44.

    Not only are there mentions of Jesus being tortured and killed in documents outside of the Bible during that time, but also there are many documents of mentions of many of Biblical people, such as David that are outside of the bible.

    At a scientific standpoint, this is compelling evidence that Jesus did exist and that he did die and was considered an outcast, just as in the bible!

    If you do not believe that God existed...then think about these things:
    In the 1800s, Matthew Maury, an officer in the United States Navy believed his Bible. As a Christian he loved to read the Bible. One day Maury was reading about the dominion man was given over the animals in Psalm 8. He was amazed that verse 8 spoke of the fish and all creatures that swim in the "paths of the sea." "Paths of the sea"— how could this be? He never knew there was such a thing. He was determined to find them. Maury discovered that the oceans have many paths or currents, which were like rivers flowing through the sea. Maury wrote the first book on oceanography and became known as "the pathfinder of the seas"— "The father of modern navigation."

    Maury received his idea about ocean currents from reading Psalm 8:8 which was written about 3,000 years ago by King David. David wrote as he was moved by the Spirit of God and probably never actually saw an ocean.

    For thousands of years people believed the earth was flat. If one went too far, he would fall over the edge. This was taught in both Hindu and Buddhist scripture. In the 1500s, the first ship sailed around the world. This proved the earth was round. But the round earth was recorded in the Judeo-Christian Bible long before man discovered it in the 1500s.

    The prophet Isaiah (40:22) spoke of the "circle of the earth." Solomon wrote, "He [God] set a compass [circle] upon the face of the deep." Proverbs 8:27. In our century, Arabs spoke of infidels being pushed over the edge into space. About 3,000 years ago, our Bible said the earth was round. This was not discovered until 500 years ago. Indeed, the Judeo-Christian Bible is the inspired Word of God.

    The Moabite Stone is an inscription in the Moabite language, a Semitic language closely related to biblical Hebrew. The inscription, of about thirty-five lines, was chiseled into a piece of black basalt measuring about three feet tall by one-and-one-half feet wide. That inscription, dated approximately 830 B.C., was set up by King Mesha in a temple at Dhiban to commemorate his "victory" over the Israelites. The Moabite Stone, in fact, gives King Mesha's side of the story. As such it provides a rare glimpse from a genuinely ancient but non-biblical source of an incident in biblical history.

    in 1993 archeologists found proof of King David's existence outside the Bible. At an ancient mound called Tel Dan, in the north of Israel, words carved into a chunk of basalt were translated as "House of David" and "King of Israel" proving that he was more than just a legend.



    R.D. Wilson who wrote “A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament” pointed out that the names of 29 Kings from ten nations (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon and more) are mentioned not only in the Bible but are also found on monuments of their own time. Every single name is transliterated in the Old Testament exactly as it appears on the archaeological artifact – syllable for syllable, consonant for consonant. The chronological order of the kings is correct.


    On of the best type of reasoning is, the Bible foretells information hundreds and sometimes even thousands of years before scientists are able to prove that these things are so. The striking thing is, when these things are written, they go against the prevailing notions of their day. The question is, how did these men know these thing? The answer, God told them.



    An example is, they wrote that the earth hangs on nothing, that is it is not supported by any external object. And yet this was not discovered by science until the 16th century.



    JOB 26:7 "He stretches out the north over empty space, And hangs the earth on nothing.


    Remember the story of Job? How he suffered? He questioned God and god answered with this: On of the best type of reasoning is, the Bible foretells information hundreds and sometimes even thousands of years before scientists are able to prove that these things are so. The striking thing is, when these things are written, they go against the prevailing notions of their day. The question is, how did these men know these thing? The answer, God told them.



    An example is, they wrote that the earth hangs on nothing, that is it is not supported by any external object. And yet this was not discovered by science until the 16th century.



    JOB 26:7 "He stretches out the north over empty space, And hangs the earth on nothing.

    Remember the story of Job? Job suffered tremendously... he never cursed God. He praised God through it all. He did ask God why... and this is the answer he got: Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? This answer was thousands of years before anyone knew anything about astrology. Garrett P. Serviss, the noted astronomer, wrote about the bands of Orion in his book CURIOSITIES OF THE SKY. At the present time this band consists of an almost perfect straight line, a row of second-magnitude stars about equally spaced and of the most striking beauty. How did people of such an age know of the bands of Orion without God telling them? These things were not discovered at this time?



    The seven stars of the Pleiades are in reality a grouping of 250 suns. Dr. Trumpler said that all this led to an important discovery. Without any reference whatsoever to the Book of Job, he announced to the world that these discoveries prove that the stars in the Pleiades are all bound together and are flying together like a flock of birds as they journey to their distant goal. That is exactly what God said. "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?" In other words, Canst thou keep them bound together so that they remain as a family of suns?



    Arcturus, one of the greatest suns in the universe, is a runaway whose speed of flight is 257 miles per second. Arcturus, we have every reason to believe, possesses thousands of times the mass of our sun. Think of it! Our sun is traveling only 12 ½ miles a second, but Arcturus is traveling 257 miles a second. Think then of the prodigious momentum this motion implies.



    Charles Burckhalter, of the Chabot Observatory, added an interesting note regarding this great sun:

    This high velocity places Arcturus in that very small class of stars that apparently are a law unto themselves. He is an outsider, a visitor, a stranger within the gates; to speak plainly, Arcturus is a runaway. Newton gives the velocity of a star under control as not more than 25 miles a second, and Arcturus is going 257 miles a second. Therefore, combined attraction of all the stars we know cannot stop him or even turn him in his path.

    When Mr. Burckhalter had his attention called to this text in the book of Job, he studied it in the light of modern discovery and made a statement that has attracted worldwide attention:

    The study of the Book of Job and its comparison with the latest scientific discoveries has brought me to the matured conviction that the Bible is an inspired book and was written by the One who made the stars.



    Again, remember in a previous statement God ask the question-Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? All three of these things were discovered in astrology much later in history. This proves the existence of an all knowing God! He knew things before they were discovered! What more evidence does anyone need?



    For these and other reasons, I believe the Bible proves itself to be Divine revelation that is different from any other. In it, we find the truth about our present spiritual condition (lost in sin) and the truth about what God has done for us (death and resurrection of Jesus) and what we must do to be saved (believe in Him, repent of sins, confess His name before men and be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins). Also, we find how we as Christians should live and worship after we have received forgiveness of sins.

    Therefore, I believe living by Faith is great! But there is solid evidence if one does the research to find out. If you don't want to do the research...it is already done! I have found a mountain of evidence! Too much to list in here or I will end up writing a novel!

    Tell me how God knew things well in advance of their discovery?

    Sadly, no matter how much evidence that can be found...some will never see the truth! God said in his word that the bline will lead the blind and they will all fall in the ditch!

    I studied science. It was my major. I love anything to do with science! However, I know of many scientist who are now coming to terms with the fact that God does exist! There is simply too much evidence to debunk any other theory! I'm not even going into evolution. But I have so much evidence...solid evidence proving this is nothing more than a theory!

    God bless. And trust me, I mean no harm. We all have our right as a human to say our opinions! What is so great about my God is he gave you and me both the option to chose. If you chose to not accept him that is your right!

    Peace to all.

    1. marty1968 profile image60
      marty1968posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      wow libby101 this is really interesting

    2. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't know that the study of science included copying and pasting from a web site run by an ex-dairy farmer who is out to make a quick buck:

      http://agards-bible-timeline.com/q9_his … bible.html

      smile

  42. libby101a profile image61
    libby101aposted 14 years ago

    sorry, I read over my post and noticed an error: I copied some of my info from a previous work I had done on my own site...so I apologive there is one that I copied twice. So sorry...

    One more thing: Something or someone can exist in spite if you believe or not! There is quite a bit of evidence for anyone to dismiss that there is a living God!

  43. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Long post to be based on a false premise.
    There is no god..
    Your god is all in the little bit of brain danglin on the spinal cord that controls fight and flight!
    Religion is flight! lol

    How many pray daily for enough food to eat only to die of starvation?
    Oh that's right! They haven't found god yet!

    If I ever find your p*ss ant god I will throttle it! Your whole premise is based on pure unadulterated bulldust.

    1. CkhoffmanK profile image70
      CkhoffmanKposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lol

    2. libby101a profile image61
      libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is your right to believe whatever you want! As I stated before, you don't have to believe in him for him to exist. He does exist! There is  a God!

      God allows the progression of humans without intervention by him! He does answer prayers, he just doesn't answer all prayers! I have prayed for things that were impossible and he answered. I have prayed for other things that he has not answered. And I have prayed for things I am glad he did not answer! I know there is a God from personal experiences of my own.

      You say if you ever find God you will throttle it? Well sir, every man will be judged! You will someday be before him in spite of not believing!

      My whole premise is based on facts! Your premise is based on your own theory! You believe there is no God, therefore no matter what evidence is put before you , you dismiss it.

      I posted a lot of evidence in my previous post that there is a God. Take each part and prove me wrong? And while you are at it, give some evidence that God does not exist!

      I posted my evidence, where is yours? Besides your rantings and ravings I see no such evidence!

      Every toungue will confess on judgement day! Even you! Believe what you want! You have a choice!

      This is the reason hell enlarges daily but heavens dimensions are set! Too many people disregard facts for fiction and their own beliefs!

      Good luck to you!

      1. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Try praying as an orphan born riddles with disease in a shanty town built around a rubbish tip to provide sustenance for yourself, then get back here and tell me how wonderful your god is...

        What is wrong with these peoples prayers. You are so much better and more worthy no doubt.

        Disgusting!

      2. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah, like you. Beliefs are just that believed to be true.

        Not facts. There is no god.

        Easiest way to figure out:

        (a) Life does not require a belief in a god to be lived.
        (b) Life does not require a belief in a god to be understood.

        Therefore, no god required. But, you keep believing in it. And, when you're consciousness ceases to exist, you won't be able to tell anyways. So much for knowing facts of life.

      3. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry, but what you've posted has already been researched by others and has not been found to be valid evidence. It is old news.

        You also fallaciously ask in return evidence that god does not exist, which can't be done because you can't prove a negative. smile

  44. SearchingForTruth profile image57
    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years ago

    You say that those of us who may be wrong will have eternity to think about it - what makes you truly think that your "spirit" will exist when your body is dead? Seriously? It does not state that your spirit walks the Earth, Heaven or Hell after death. It states that your body sleeps the eternal sleep and later after the return of Christ that the souls of the righteous would join God in Heaven ... either way I have nothing to fear.

    Either one way I'm wrong and I sleep eternally with no difference, or two, nothing exists beyond death, period.

    Sounds pretty much the same to me.

    I do think that Jesus lived as a human on Earth at some point - however I do not believe that this man was TRULY a divine incarnation of God. I believe that a story was started based on a dream, a vision as some call it, and Jesus fit the bill for the story's main character.

    Yes, the Pleiades exist as a grouping of suns ... Yes I follow science in their exploration of the universe as best they can. This is neither a scientific nor a prediction debate, but rather one of what this force entails. Honestly as far as the "predictions" I believe a majority are simply coincidence and therefore inconsequential. People love bending happenings to suit themselves and this is no different. What better way to gain a following than a monumental "I told you so!" moment? LOL smile

    You have your opinion and I have mine - I have released myself from the ties of religion and look at all things objectively. You won't change my mind, so arguing said points is fine in general debate, but don't attempt to criticize those of us who don't bow to your God as though we are going to face eternal flames. If I believed in that, it might do you some good ... with things as they are, it simply leaves you baseless and arguing with thin air. Religion is operated by blind faith and emotion - I have no blind faith, nor do I let my emotions guide me. Good luck.

    1. libby101a profile image61
      libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Actually if you knew the Bible you would know that there is a little more to it than sleeping through eternity. On judgement day those who do not believe are judged and cast into everlasting fire (hell).

      I believe I said everyone has the right to their beliefs...however the guy before you is a hater of people who do love God. I can tell by his statements! I am not arguing. I posted my beliefs and was met by such hatred!

      It is not God's fault that an orphan is starving somewhere! It is a part of life! If God intervened with things such as this he would not need people to believe by faith because they would see his works! He wants us to believe without seeing proof! Those are the ones who loved him before proof was given!

      I love you all! I do not care if you like to bash those who love God. It is bibical that you will!

      To the other poster! You are so right. Life does go on. It doesnt matter if you believe or not! However, if it wasn't for God no life would exist!

      God exists! He is very real! Like i said before...it is your choice to believe or not to believe! I chose to believe! I have seen too much to not believe!

      Peace to you all! It seems peace is not in some of your vocabulary.... some...not all!

      1. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Says YOU!
        Says YOU!
        I'm sure you've seen a lot, especially haven't an extremely low level of consciousness, it's no wonder. hmm
        You peace is what you are not about. Otherwise, you would not be bothering voicing your "beliefs". It's obvious you lack knowledge and wisdom of life, just by your words, you get everything you know, from a book that was man-made and meant to control humankind.

        And, you're correct about one thing- there is no reason for you to argue, considering everything you claim is conjecture based on the bible's stories. If you truly understood Jesus, then you wouldn't have any belief in a god.

  45. SearchingForTruth profile image57
    SearchingForTruthposted 14 years ago

    Your spouting of scripture and claiming that since you cannot fathom a scientific explanation for things that it must be contributed to God is pure fallacy in my opinion. Once again, each will believe what they wish, but this is why I believe the way I do.

    I can prove my existence by sight, sound, touch, smell and taste. Not one of those ways can you prove that God exists. Taking such existence on blind faith since you cannot figure out an end-all-be-all answer to a scientific question does not mean that God exists. By "God" I am referring to the personified being that supposedly watches every move, knows every thought, and has planned everything accordingly. The force that drives us all has no consciousness aside from our own minds and mentalities controlling ourselves.

    1. libby101a profile image61
      libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I posted a lot of scientific evidence in this thread! Apparently nobody wants evidence! I will leave in peace as I came! I do not wish to argue with you! I simply gave my opinion and why I believe the way I do! Yet it seems to me that people are cruel and mean! They are haters of those who love God!

      Without the love of God it is easy to see why!

      God is real. It doesnt matter if you believe or not! He is God...he doesn't have to prove anything to you! You either believe or you don't! Its that simple!


      peace to you all!

      Goodbye

      1. libby101a profile image61
        libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Wow! It seems you guys have a lot of hatred inside for people who believe in God! Why is that? Is it the people or is it God that you hate?

      2. earnestshub profile image70
        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You did not post any science that I saw, but you may be pleased to know you are about the dozenth religious dummy spit I have seen here in 18 months. I say good riddance! smile

        1. libby101a profile image61
          libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Wow, name calling? Without God, I can see why you are so cruel!

          You say that is not evidence, yet I posted many notable scientist's own words! LOL! Wow... dismisal of facts!

          Ok. As I stated, we all have our right to believe how we want. But, does that mean you must call people names because they do not believe the same way you do?

          As a human, could you not see why that would make some believe you are bad?

          As a child I as taught that "athiest" were evil. But, I am a good person and believed they were just misinformed! Yet, I come here in peace and am bombared with pure hatred!


          I gave my beliefs as you did! So I deserve to be called names?

          1. earnestshub profile image70
            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No need to reply to this.

            For those with eyes will see. smile

            I could hurt laughing at the cruel jibe.
            Is honesty that hard for you to handle?
            Apparently it is. I did no name calling, actually it was you. smile

            1. libby101a profile image61
              libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Wow... so this isn't your post?

              earnestshubposted 16 minutes agoin reply to this

              You did not post any science that I saw, but you may be pleased to know you are about the dozenth religious dummy spit I have seen here in 18 months. I say good riddance

              So calling smoeone a religious dummy spit... isn't calling names?

              Wow, yes those with eyes will see!

              I did nto call anyone the first name! If I did I will apologize!

              1. earnestshub profile image70
                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No, a dummy spit is an action, not a person. smile It is when someone storms off in a huff.
                So far you have called me an idiot and told me I am going to hell. smile
                So, with the able assist of the sky fairy, you threaten my life and abuse me, but that doesn't count cos goddunit! lol lol

                "As a child I as taught that "athiest" were evil" no prejudice there either! lol
                So, an indoctrinated hard core religionist is it? My favourite! smile

                1. libby101a profile image61
                  libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I bleieve you called me that. You dont use it as an action in a sentence the way you stated it. It says "You are"!  That means you are calling me that!

                  I did not mean to call you an idiot! If I did, I do apologize!

                  About the "hell" part! I cant take that back! If you are a nonbeliever of God then by the bible you will be judged. I say it with Love!

                  I do apologize if I did call you anything!

                  However, you did call me what I said you did. You do not say "you are" if you are not alling names! That is not an action!

                  1. earnestshub profile image70
                    earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    It is an action fer gords sake! A well known saying! Google it.

                    And you did call me an idiot, and I will ask you to retract your hateful hell threat too!

                  2. Misha profile image68
                    Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    This belief is as irrational as the rest of your beliefs you had a chance to air here. big_smile

  46. earnestshub profile image70
    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Source?
    The bible today!

    Quoting a well known religious apologist!

    Oh so much awTHORATAY! lol lol lol

  47. marty1968 profile image60
    marty1968posted 14 years ago

    I dont know what makes you guys so sure that this lady isnt right. I have been sitting idly by watching you guys bash her into the ground when it seems to me that she has got the real truth. I researched all of her information and found it to be 100% accurate. Sounds to me like u guys have been burned in the past. If you dont listen to what she is saying you are looking at being burned in the future

  48. marty1968 profile image60
    marty1968posted 14 years ago

    I also seen where she apologized if she called you any name (which i didnt see any) but you said some pretty harsh things to her.........where is your love brother?

  49. libby101a profile image61
    libby101aposted 14 years ago

    marty I think you are wasting your time. They are cruel and if you dont' agree with them they will bash you and call you names!

  50. marty1968 profile image60
    marty1968posted 14 years ago

    I guess the love of God  yeilds love and compassion for others. Thats a lot more than I can say for the love of man

 
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