Christianity doesnt make sense WHO AGREES?

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DGBposted 15 years ago
I think christianity is very stupid, you can't break a rule with out breaking another!!! who agree's??
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What makes sense in any religious belief?
  I can't think of 1....
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  starme77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Me Neither
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Frankly, such posts do not make more sense than christianity
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  starme77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,but to us who are being saved it is the power of GOD.For it is written;I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The funny thing is, most religious believe they are wise for being a believer. Make sense to you?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It sure does. As an ex religionist myself, it is one hell of an offer! Believe an outrageously disparate bunch of bronze age threats of death as opposed to living forever in perfect peace and harmony and never dying?
  Sounds too good to be true, and you know what some of us say about that.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like only the "wisest" will choose to believe so they don't get punished.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, many will believe in nigerian scams. It's the fear of not having whatever may be on offer. How else could one explain the popularity of the TelEvangelists! These guys have millions of followers, including me! (But only for the comedy!)
  Religion reminds me a lot of the Flintstone episode where Fred is lying on a hammock wishing for millions when a bank haul is dumped in his lap!
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  quicksandposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ex religionist? ... You mean you've actually been there? Cool!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! Up to me eyeballs in it at one time! I wrote a hub about it, called "The biblical god is a psychopath"
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But you still have not ever told us whether you actually had a Holy Spirit encounter?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, no one has. People have had experiences in which they assume were from some mystical spirit or ghost or god. They misinterpret the understanding for whatever reasons.
  
  They do not really KNOW where it came from. They assume they know.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly! Yes I had a spiritual encounter, I woke up to where it came from eventfully.
  My own mind.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK guys, that explains a whole heap of things.
  
  Cags, you cannot answer for what I experienced, nobody can.
  
  I can assure you that if and when you ever experience the Holy Spirit in your life, you will no longer doubt.
  
  Earnest, your glib answer also shows that you have never encountered the Holy Spirit, for those who have can never deny Him.
  
  So really you are both speaking from a lack of available information.
  
  I apologise for whatever churchianity did to you both, but it was not Christ's fault or blame if you met false believers who lied and cheated and abused you.
  
  Ironically as the months pass, I like you guys more and more!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aqua that is bulldust! You do not know anything about my religious experience, and to say I never had it, or that once I did I would be stuck with it is nonsense!
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  Danny R Handposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yet daily you tell MANY others exactly what you just accussed someone else of.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More bull! I don't tell others that their experiences are fraudulent, just that what they believe is a pile. I know, I have been just as demented as you lot!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is presumptuous and misleading.
  To say they might not have is one thing. To blatantly say they don't is opinionated. If you have never experienced being a chef, how can you say a chef doesn't know food? You can't. All you can do is either observe them or experience it for yourself in order to find the truth of it.
  
  This type of logic/thinking is what is limiting the human race and adding to an already dysfunctional condition.
  
  { FTR: Yes, I can say that because I am both observing it and testing it for myself }
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know God!? My God is a loving God that tolerates crap from his children daily...grace at it's max.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe you know anything about the bible, or you have to revert to some re-reading of the scriptures.
  
  Here is the "word" explaining how it thinks.
  
  Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
  
  You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
  
  Kill Homosexuals
  "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
  
  Arrogant, psychotic, homophobic little god!
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Romans 3:7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
  
  8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
  
  And even when King David says he lies to glorify god and says people should do bad things just so good things can happen...need I say more.
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  Troy C.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You serve your master well and he has rewarded you. "but what profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his immortal soul" i'm sure you know where that is in th bible because the devil knows it front to back.
  No Smiley Face.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unlike yourself, I don't serve any masters. Without a pretend god, there is no pretend bad guy to take the rap.
  
  Your religiosity is as thin as the brain chemistry that supports it!
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, earnesthub! I've been away for awhile writing my second book. Those quotes are indeed from the Bible. However, the Old Testament reveals the national law of Israel which meted out punishment to rebellious individuals in the nation. The principle carries on that we are to overcome with God's strength through Jesus by the Spirit's power the remnants of rebellion still within us as believers. On the other hand, the New Testament is for an international church of believers for whom the outward form (the letter) of the Old Testament no longer applies. That's why quoting the laws in the Old Testament is no argument against God. That's my belief.
  
  But you can have your opinion.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So your god didn't say what is in the OT?
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  MikeNVposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You could apply your logic to ALL Religion... including Atheism.
  
  So what's the point?
  
  People have to believe in something, and not believing is another choice.
  
  Circular Redundancy. Chicken and the Egg.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, everyone and MikeNV. If you don't believe in God, do you believe in yourself? In your reasoning abilities? In science? In family and friends? In pleasure? In money? In material pessessions? All of these objects of faith are religious in the sense that we may rely on them for meaning and satisfaction in life.
  
  My belief is that we all take leaps of faith in something or someone. Believing in ourselves to reason out whether God exists or not ia a leap of faith, because our reasoning may be faulty. No one knows for absolute certain that the object(s) of their faith will prove to be satisfying and meaningful. Often the fleeting things and people of this life and even our own reasoning can let us down. However, it seems to me that we're all religious, and that it would serve us well to make sure that we have a true, long-lasting object of faith that will never let us down.
  
  True believers in the God of the Bible are convinced that he will strengthen and use them in this life to be God's agents of his love and carry them into perfection in the next life, though the 3-in-1 God doesn't measure up to anyone's reasoning abilities. In fact, he is mysterious as three Persons in one God and yet revealed in the Bible as our Creator and Rescuer. He's God and I'm not. Why should I, with my creaturely mind, be able to figure him out? I don't have to force him into my little "intelligence box."
  
  To answer the original question, Christianity does not make complete sense to anyone's rational mind, but neither does any other kind of trust. We all make leaps of faith in the objects and people and Gods that we think will satisfy us. Faith in materialism, hedonism, scientism, and rationalism do not make sense to me because material things, pleasure, science, and human reason are not long-lasting and often disappoint us. They certainly do not carry us into the next life that the God of the Bible promises to do.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh what utter nonsense. "material things, pleasure, science, and human reason are not long-lasting and often disappoint us"
  
  Sorry you are disappointed in your ability to reason, although I would agree that material things can be disappointing some times. I see you are quite happy to use science on a day to day basis though. Unless your computer is a majik computer from the Sky Daddy of course? Dear me. Defend your ridiculous beliefs at all costs huh?
  
  I have a strong feeling you are going to be disappointed in the invisible Sky Daddy when the time comes.
  
  Nice to see you agree Christianity does not make any sense unless you suspend disbelief.
  
  Bet you get the brakes on your car serviced regularly though.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  trollin`, trollin`, trollin` ...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - I see your understanding of Internet speak is as good as your understanding of reality.
  
  Yes - a lot of believers think that any dissenting opinion is trollin'. This is the mistake they make by thinking they have all the answers and fearing that they do not. The cognitive dissonance must be mind blowing. Hence resorting to "trollin`, trollin`, trollin`" as a reasonable contribution to a discussion.
  
  At least you are not burning me at the stake or flying a plane into my house. Progress of sorts I suppose.
  
  Y'achoo would be very proud, I am sure.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will say that your replies are consistent Mark, you trot out the same old lines day in and day out, slightly tweaked for the individual.
  
  14,000 posts in two years, thats about 20 per day, with no holidays or days off, quite astounding that you would devote so much time to attempting to debunk Christianity.
  
  Ever heard of King Canute?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yet the waves are receding as we speak.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, Canute had the same delusion.
  
  Don't get too wet.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come Soon Lord Jesus!
  
  Dear me. Disgusting lack of ethics.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the "yachoo" you don't believe in, but constantly argue with other folk about, day in day out? All these rants just to pump up the blog-ume? The same subject, a hundred threads, with the same banter and the same hackneyed "deary me" xtrin xtrian lip service anger management quality narccissism.
  
  yup. trollin trollin trollin.
  
  oddly the handful of hanger steak haters do the same.
  obviously your assertive intent to dismantle or nibble at the heel of the beast has been for naught what a waste...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gesundheid.
  
  Yes - that is the one.
  
  Tell you what - you stop going on about it - I stop laughing at you. Deal? And - can you stop them Mormon leaflets while you are about it? Thanks.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  deal or no deal?
  
  better stick to peanutbutterandatheism, deary.
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see - so you do not agree - you have to shout about y'atchooo and attack anyone who does not subscribe?
  
  Oddly - this is how religion works. Like I said - at least you are not burning me at the stake or flying a plane into my home.
  
  Progress. You do know the earth is not flat - right?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i do? i don't shout, Marcus.
  
  "The sun and windbag were having a debate about man one day. The wind crowed about how he could make the man take off his coat. The wind bet the Son. The Son accepted. The wind blew and blew and blew as hard as he could; the more he did, the tighter the man held his coat. The Son rose and simply smiled. And the man took of his coat."
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I agree with you about Mormon leaflets. They and the Jehovah's Witnesses departed from the Christian church to try to reason out mysteries like the 3-in-1 nature of God, Jesus' human and divine natures, and the nature of the third Person of God, the Holy Spirit. They are outside of biblical Christian beliefs.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Mark! You certainly make a post interesting :-)! I believe that Christian, biblical beliefs make perfect sense, given the assumptions of the Bible--that God created all things and everyone, including you and me; God is three Persons in one God; that Jesus is the God-man who came on a rescue-mission for all who would trust in him as the way to the Father; and that his mission was to live a perfect life, die as our substitute to take away our justly-deserved death penalty, and rise from the dead to give believers new life to follow him. The biblical beliefs of Christians make sense based on those biblical principles.
  
  You and all people make assumptions too about the shape of reality, perhaps basing your thinking on your rational abilities or other people's scientific abilities. I too believe that the facts (not necessarily the theories and hypotheses) of science are acceptable, but in view of the Bible's assumptions, I believe that those facts show the Creator's handiwork (Psalm 19). Your way of reasoning excludes the Creator. How can you be so sure that there isn't a divine Designer behind the universe? That's your assumption as you look at the facts of science, and you have a right to draw that conclusion and have that assumption.
  
  Of course, I have a right to assume the Bible's teaching that the universe came from his loving power. I guess that we will find out some day when we die who is right. Consider respecting other people's right to believe in God as I respect your right to believe in rationality and science to give you meaning in life.
  
  As you can see, I too can reason, but we part company in the assumptions upon which we base our reasoning. And that's OK as far as I am concerned.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That just about sims it up.
  This would be a great copy and paste answer to the never ending same old same old "so called questions" posed in the future,
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, those are real things when compared to your invisible and undetectable god. Big differences.
  
  That certainly does make sense, considering the religious are unable to fathom a world without their gods, a result of childhood indoctrination.
  
  Don't you mean "belief box"? There is no intelligence in blind faith.
  
  Of course they don't. Believers don't understand those things, hence they don't make sense.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you believe in, Q? We all believe in some form of assumptions about the meaning of reality. Therefore, we're all religious, either believing in our own rationality or in other's science to make sense out of the universe. When we lose any form of faith in ourselves, other people, experts, or what our senses tell us, we're a candidate for suicide.
  
  Christian believers reason on the basis of the Bible's teachings. I ask again, what is the basis of your faith in humanity?
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  UniqueBeautyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Belief box? I believe and know that there is intelligence in faith- and its not just blind faith. How about a faith backed up by thousands of years of accounts of encounters with God? How about a few myself? I love research and analyzing, I love debate and discussion. But because I believe that there is a God who loves me, I am not intelligent? I have seen fear, hate, lies and many other things that could cause me to not believe that there is an ultimate good. But I have seen too many things, felt too many things, heard too many things to make me believe that I'm just an idealist with rose-colored glasses. There is good and evil. Free will to choose what you believe. Free will to deny the true God. It's all your choice. He doesn't punish you for that. It's just part of the package. Study on it more before you decide that we are not intellectual-
  
  Peace*
  UniqueBeauty
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you interpret "kill unbelievers?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that it is like us all floating out in the ocean.
  When ship comes by and says Hay guys and dolls, come on up you are welcome in my ship any time but you are goina have to take off your Captains hat.
  
  As they sail away you can curse the captain if ya want to.
  And wave your captains hat at him and say
  
  "I will never give this up"
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Has this actually happened, Jerami? Why not just say "Love me or I'll burn you for eternity"! Somehow it doesn't sound the same, does it?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oposits are all too often true. Depends upon which side of the fence that WE WANT TO STAND ON.
  
  And no matter which side "We" are standing on is Right.... Right????
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand your logic, Jerami! Why would a god waste thousands, no millions of years letting humans suffer when he already knows the outcome? A bored god? No thanks, entertaining gods with death and suffering doesn't get it!
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, your question is interesting. I believe that the God of the Bible is far from entertained by human suffering. He sent Jesus, the God-man, to suffer for the imperfections of the human race, to die to take on himself the death penalty that we brought on ourselves. Suffering is not God's fault, but you're right that he allows for a good purpose--so that we will return to him from our human rebellion, of which there is plenty of evidence in these forums. Humans brought suffering and death on themselves, according to the Bible, and God calls all of us to believe in and serve him through Jesus. That's what I believe; you can believe or not believe what you want to.
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  Maximum Aposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "kill unbelievers"
  
  fanatics who misinterpret things and when caught, put the blame on their religion.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's in the book!
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so is love thy neighbour as thyself and love your enemies too.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel, you're only 14 years old. Give yourself more time to learn about different religions and different types of spirituality before you decide what is right for you.
  
  Maybe none are. But calling any of them stupid is being too harsh. Just my opinion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, he is correct and speaking with the honesty only children do. Let's face it - a goodly proportion of the christian faith is "stupid."
  
  I prefer "irrational" "hypocritical" and "nonsensical" myself.
  
  But - the TOS of hubpages means no under-18 members.
  
  So - ciao Daniel. See you in 4years time.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, great. I didn't even think about the TOS and now I got the poor kid booted!
  
  When he comes back in 4 years his first forum thread will be "Sara Tonyn doesn't make sense WHO AGREES?"
  
  And then comes the "stupid" part...
  
  (Sorry Daniel but rules is rules. )
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  DGBposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i guess you could say that it is unfair to judge, but take into account i have studied it for 9 years in great detail does give me the right, well in my opinion it does,religion causes wars, the idea of religion is fantastic, but the nut jobs who want to take religion to a whole new level just destroys the idea of it all. The church have condemed gay people for ages, when they don't live by one of their most important rules! "love thy neighbour"
  but pope john paul said " homosexuality is a shameful passion" that quote there isnt being kind and being a goos christian. therefore they don't follow by the rules and just make religion to suit them rather than the wellfare of its followers!
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  @DGB: You've been studying Christianity in great detail since you were five?
  
  Money also causes wars, and food and lack there of, political boundaries, and race. Family lines, too.
  
  Not all Christians condemn homosexuality, also. Again, this comes down to differences where you worship, what denomination you are, and if you even prescribe to a denomination at all. Many Christians with a firm relationship with Jesus and God feel that organized churches aren't what's right for them as worshipers and believers.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This sounds like all the other ridiculous justifications for your irrational beliefs.
  
  "Not all Christians" means - 2000 years of wars and disagreement. Over the perfect word of god?
  
  Dear me. A "firm relationship with god and jesus"?
  
  So - LOL you are a genuine kristian? LOL And can you tell us what god said?
  
  Seems to me the boy has it right. Your religion is "silly."
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Your argument is silly" is no better an argument than it was back in third grade, and a lot less thought out than what most people have been saying. Misspelling something and LOLing all over the place are great conversation tactics, too.
  
  I can't say anyone is right or wrong, Christian or no. I just know how my beginning faith goes, what kind of person I am and am not. The thread is about calling something stupid: agree or disagree. I disagreed. Just like I disagree that any religion is stupid. And I've been agreeing or disagreeing on specific points. Yes, Christians have been hating on homosexuals since forever. So have most other people. No, not all Christians.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not all beliefs have homophobia built in!
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  brotheryochananposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  homophobia is an animal man word.
  If you think it godly or holy conduct that a man recieve male semen in his bum or mouth then serve that god, but for me, these acts have fleshly lust written all over, this is why the god i believe, who is all wise, forbids such acts. Those who walk according to the flesh cannot please god.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, homophobia is yet another biblical belief that abuses other people.
  I'm straight myself.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What I think is not relative here, what the bible thinks and you follow is.
  Your sky fairy apparently hates just about everyone, including all non-believers.
  
  A manual that tells you who to hate.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earnestshub, I believe that the Bible's most prominent theme is God's love and believers' responsibility to love him above all and our neighbors as ourselves, even our enemies. Even Jesus died and rose again to enable true Christians to love everyone, no matter who they are. I'm not sure where you got your info, but it certainly wasn't from the Bible as a whole. If you meet hating Christians, they are not following the ways of the God of the Bible. However, you may believe what you want about Christians and their beliefs.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well Bruce I don't know which bible you read, but I will write down all the times your god kills, and how many it killed according to your tome, and you write about all the love. I think the difference in numbers would amaze you.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try that with the new testament!
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  its sooo cute you believe that.
  Is this from the new testament or the Old testament..
  
  wait, let me guesss...... The Old!!
  try adjusting to the new covenant. The Love side of god, but don't get confused, God will Judge all people and he will not be afraid to do so as is obvious by the Old Testament.
  I better say goodbye now..because i won't get a chance later!
  im busting a gut.
  
  it is cute that you believe that.
  have a nice day thinking about how a mean killing god is going to enjoy the time you step up.
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  DGBposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i have been studying it since i was 5 yes i was brought up in catholic surroundings and also i go to a catholic school,i totaly agree money starts wars etc, however i strongly disagree that it is only political issues and money that causes wars. take hitler for example he started war for most of the reasons you listed and plus religion, he wanted to kill the whole of the jewish population, because they knew how to make money and he thought it wasn't a pure religion. take the crusades for example, they went around slaughtering people for the "holy land" and attacking other races and religions like muslims. so the whole religion condraticts itself because it is saying you to be nice and not kill, but instead the followers discriminate, and kill people just because they don't have the same beliefs.i am just saying it doesnt seem to make sense to me ,
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Crusades have always bothered me a great deal. And you'd be surprised how much they eventually became about money! The middle east held lots of treasure to be taken and trade roads to be opened, new markets to be exploited, lots of those things. I'm not saying they're really reasons at first (though they became reasons later), but they're at least direct results.
  
  There are many things that don't make sense, even to the very devout--things that people calling themselves Christian have done (though I don't think people can really speak for God's will, which I've heard somewhere is one of the greater sins) and things in the Bible. I'll disagree that it's stupid, however, at every turn. But I think there's a lot of weight to put on people not speaking for God's will. Not that it justifies things such as the Crusades! I guess my point is, it's Christians who don't make sense, not Christianity. That's always been how I look at it.
  
  Even when I began to get some faith to me, learn more, become religious after trying different philosophies and some mix-and-match, even now and especially lately on HubPages when I've started discussing it more openly and with current global issues, I wonder about other Christians. The typical conservative Christian that people think about is what scared me away from the religion my whole life, the image of a bigot that will judge and condemn. And there are plenty out there like that. But I've found very faithful and religious people at a local church, the pastors in fact, who are quite liberal while still listening to God's word in the Bible.
  
  People believe the Bible is God's word, but anyone will admit that no one will ever get the same meaning from it. First to be considered are all of the translations it's gone through from "God's word" to "man's word." Then there are the perspectives through which people interpret what they read. This is the cause of division, I believe--the differences in people, not the differences in God.
  
  I went on a little bit there. I tend to do that. But I'm still figuring out my own thoughts here, and this thread is helpful to me in many ways.
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  Freya Cesareposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm agree with you. It is not religion, but the people who done wrong in translated God's words.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you, DGB and EFPotter, about the Crusades, and I would add the Inquisition. The major mistake by the Christian church was to become established as the only church of the Roman Empire and of many countries until the French and American Revolutions. We Christians should apologize to the Muslims and others for the cruel treatment that so-called Christians perpetrated on unbelievers in their countries and in the Middle East. However, in those days a person who believed differently from the established religion in a country was considered a traitor. It should never have happened; but that comment is to understand what happened, not at all to excuse the persecution.
  
  DGB, I suggest that you study other Christian approaches beside the Catholic approach. I believe the Bible's approach alone instead of adding traditions that are not in the Bible. The Bible's message is clear: We are to love everyone but identify and avoid all human rebellion against God's teachings, including the practice of sexual behavior outside of marriage of a man and a woman, whatever form it takes. That biblical distinction is very important for believers to follow.
  
  What kind of faith have you come to accept?
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  loisryanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible itself speaks against homosexuality, but it is not up to us to condemn. Remember God loves the sinner but hates the sin.
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  Maximum Aposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right about that. Some people are such hypocrites, but it is unfair to say that Christianity is wrong because some of its followers use it for personal reasons. It's like saying that we should blame the internet for all the profane things happening online.
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  Mamelodyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now I get why this discussion doesn't make sense... its a 14 year old who started it!!! teenagers never make any sense... (yes for all of us that have been teenagers we never made sense either! )
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  goldenpathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In the current state of the world we are not supposed to agree. It is impossible in the fallen state of man to agree and the "Powers that Be" know that and have, indeed, planned for that. Common teachings will not take place until we enter the realm of death and/or in the millenium.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very well stated, goldenpath.
  
  I was personally thinking something akin to that just now as I went through the posts. There is an element of unknowing that will remain as long as we do, sadly.
  
  There are, unfortunately, those who will fight to the death saying that they do in fact know and understand it ALL through science. IF that is the case, then there is no further need for science, logic, reasoning, or critical thought. Ultimate knowledge and wisdom has been achieved and we should all be able to sit back and enjoy.
  
  So, as those folks (who know and understand all through science) say so often of religion, those things should clearly be done away with as they have succeeded in explaining all there is.
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  DGB:
  
  I shall try and remain neutral in this subject - I believe in God and am a Christian. I believe that you must know this so you can understand my blik on the subject. I hope after you can see my point of view. If you could hear me talking you would understand that I am very matter of fact on the subject, not raising my tone or anything like that. I wish simply to state a view on the subject - not cause WWIII.
  
  From the outset, yes, it can seem that it is an impossible idea to follow: however, a lot of people take it as a system which is meant to be morally absolute when it is morally relative. Christianity is based on the New Testament and in that the most important teaching is that of Jesus. After that, it comes down to the Sermon on the Mount (or so I was taught) in which Jesus preaches that he understands that some of the commandments cannot always be kept, for instance 'Keep the Sabbath Holy' and he admits that this is not entirely possible all of the time, ironically, due to acts of God. Basically, I was taught, all God wants us to do is try our best to live a good life.
  
  Personally, I like Hick's view of Universal Salvation; however, this is a view for another time.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Andrew. My view on the New Testament is that Jesus came to fulfill the law perfectly as he says early in the Sermon on the Mount. Of course, we can't fulfill it perfectly, but he did it for us with his perfect life. Then, he sets before us a series of goals for our lives empowered by his life, death, and resurrection and our personal connection with Jesus from the Father by the Holy Spirit's power as the one God of believers' lives.
  
  The only way we can make progress in avoiding lust (=adultery) and self-centered anger (=murder) is because we are the branches and he is the vine (John 15) giving us his divine energy through our union with him, certainly not by our own human strength. He also called us to love our enemies and be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect, impossible without his victorious power. Of course, final perfection will only come in the next life.
  
  Paul also called us to be joyful always, pray continually, and be thankful always (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18). Such seemingly impossible goals had to come from God, because no human mind could have thought them up. Such are the ideas of the Bible that point to God as their origin, not humans.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is true that Christianity, and all religions, are nonsensical. But all of the followers are not stupid. The intelligent people who follow religion have been radically conditioned, mostly from birth, to believe things they know to be intellectually dishonest.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not believe that there is anything wrong with Christianity in its basic form. It is when "RELIGION" puts the condiments, (interpretations) over it that it becomes hard to swallow. Christianity in its truest form does not "FOLLOW" religion or any thing else except for the teachings of Christ.
  However people can be introduced to Faith in God through religion. Then they should read the words written in red.
  And formulate their own beliefs.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, I'm in agreement with you that anyone who imposes his own ideas on the Bible is wrong to do so. There are some churches, though, that try to stick with the words and ideas of the Bible while letting it interpret itself. I'm a member of one of them. Such an organized religion is good, I believe. I accept the whole Bible as revealing the 3-in-1 God--Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit--with his rescue mission in Jesus to set us free from slavery to imperfection (eventually) and death. I'm convinced more and more as I read and study it that the whole Bible testifies to that mysterious, but revealed, God, who created and rescues believers in him.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not so much that Christianity is stupid, per se. It was written by people who lived in an age of ignorance, where myths and superstitions ruled over rationale thought. Belief in the magical and mysterious dominated the mindset of everyone. Common occurrences we take for granted today that have simple explanations understood by all were viewed as supernatural events.
  
  Unfortunately, little has changed since then for many believers, despite the fact they understand these phenomena now, yet still take to the magical and mysterious, simply because those people who wrote it said it must be true.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Q. Whose rational thought is correct? And how do you know that the spiritual world is not in existence? Are you saying that we have evolved from the irrational world of the supernatural to the rational world of trusting in our senses to tell us what's real? How do you know that we haven't regressed from belief in the supernatural to an inferior state of belief in our senses and reasoning powers? How can you trust in your own rationality as correct, not faulty? I'm interested in knowing the basis of your certainty. Please share it with us.
  
  My point is that your position and mine are both leaps of faith in two different foundations, the supernatural and the natural. I guess that some day we'll find out whose correct.
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well, it's inconsistent, i'll give you that...
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  errum fattahposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  am a muslim n in my religion its full freedom am enjoying my religion if i dont want to cover my face my religion says 'if u dont want to cover ur face dont do it but cover ur body' if i dont want to pray my religion says ' dont pray but if u'll get embrassed n will apoligize to ALLAH u would b forgiven' if i dont want to give charity my religion says 'its ok now dont give but give anytime' if want to convert to christanity (naoo zubillah) so my religion has given its freedom to convert on any religion...(its juz an example other wise am not goinn to leave islam..ILOVEISLAM..)
  SO U PEOPLE SAYS CHRISTANITY DOESN'T MAKE SENCE..YEA OFCOURSE FALSE THINGS DOESN'T MAKE SENCE..BUT MY ISLAM WHICH IS ALWAYS RIGHT MAKE SENCE IN ALL THINGS..I LOVE ISLAM...LONG LIVE ISLAM..hey mate if u want to leave christanity leave it come n accept islam the way of goodness and heaven and peace...study abt islam come n let us pray to god that 'OH ALLAH ALMIGHTY! give them right way which is islam n save them from the fire of hell ameen sumah ameen....peace b on u..
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The freedom to be killed if you do so. Ask any apostate.
  
  A religion built on the ravings of a murderous despot who demanded people convert or die makes sense?
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  Freya Cesareposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Make a judgement based which only based on little knowledge and hatred will never brought you anywhere.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What! You must be a Califonia muslim.
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  Freya Cesareposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think it is wise thing to do Errum, wrong thread to suggest that. You will harvest fire from others.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Errum. I value your input to our discussion. Why do you trust in the visions given to Muhammed, apparently from your Allah through the angel Gabriel? You have only Muhammed's word that he had those visions. I have read the Qur'an completely and have come to the conclusion that his visions were real but not from the God of the Bible, who claims to be the true God.
  
  As to the reasonableness of Christianity, God said in Isaiah 55 that his thoughts are above our thoughts and his ways above our ways. Don't you also believe that Allah is so different from us that he can't even be called a Person. How reasonable is that belief?
  
  Of course, we can't and shouldn't be able to figure God out completely. He's God and we're not. Our puny minds cannot and should not fully understand him as the all-powerful, everywhere-present, and all-knowing divine Creator and Ruler of his universe.
  
  However, your Allah and the God of the Bible are very different, since God is three Persons in one God, not three Gods; Jesus is fully human and fully God; and Jesus was born as the God-baby to live a perfect life as the God-man, to actually die on the cross to take believers' death penalty on himself, and actually rose from the dead to give believers new, grateful life to follow him. The last two events were witnessed by many followers who endured persecution and even death for their testimony.
  
  I'm convinced that the Christian faith makes perfect sense when built on the solid foundation of the Bible and the testimony of eyewitnesses. How many eyewitnesses saw the visions on which Islam is built?
  
  One other question I have is, Why does the Qur'an threaten the punishment of hell every other or third page throughout it? The Bible makes that threat, but its pre-dominant theme is God's love (the Father's giving Jesus in death to rescue us) and grace (his free acceptance of believers because of Jesus' perfection, not because of anything in us). Believers in the 3-in-1 God cannot do anything to earn God's love and grace; Jesus did it all. That teaching sets Christian beliefs apart from all other sets of beliefs, which all involve human effort to gain God's approval.
  
  Of course, you and all Muslims have a perfect right to believe as you do. I'm just interested in why you believe as you do. I'm interested in your responses.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, christianity doesn't make sense.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why should the God that is separate from the universe, rules it, and is completely involved in history measure up to our puny rationality, Pandora's Box? The Bible shows that he is all-knowing, and we are certainly limited in our knowledge. Why should we think that we can fully know an everywhere-present and all-powerful God? We can't. However, he revealed himself enough in the Bible for us to believe in him. I invite you to read it completely to examine his claims for yourself, not to base your ideas on other people's assertions.
  
  Imagine for a moment that a Creator-God who made you came in the God-man Jesus to rescue you from your imperfection apart from any of your efforts. Doesn't he have the right to call you to believe in and follow him? But you can believe as you wish. That's certainly your privilege.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with watcha said and I disagree with what you said.
  =====================
  However, he revealed himself enough in the Bible for us to believe in him.
  =====
  I think that he revealed himself totaly to those that wrote of him in the book.
  
  ================================================
  , not to base your ideas on other people's assertions.
  ====
  And I make this challenge to everyone. It is harder than anyone may think. After almost 2000 years of people interpreting what the scriptures are saying... We have all fallen under the influence of those things that other people says are written is scripture.
  
  ============================================================
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  ak43posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you have true faith then it should make perfect sense/
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  Danny R Handposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Learn all about it through reading the bible and asking theological scholars questions along the way. Christianity makes perfect sense. If you dissagree explain some of your reasoning.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  keep praying.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  DGB,
  
  I'm Jewish, and I would not chastize anothers religion. Unless they do harm.
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  loisryanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure that you are not talking about a specific church. Before you judge Christianity, or any other religion, know what you are talking about. Christianity means knowing that you are not perfect and knowing that God understands it-that's why he sent Jesus, and having a personal relationship with Jesus.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Day to dawn makes no sense,
  What does we call non sense"
  
  Christianity ad Christ make sense to me.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  There is nothing wrong with the creeds Jesus believed in; but the present "Christianity" is invented by Paul, the Church and their associates. It has nothing to do with Jesus. It is for this that it looks as useless.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Useless.
  Just like the quoran eh paara?
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just noticed your first statement, DGB. So you think that Christianity is about rules? The Bible doesn't present Christian beliefs that way. What rules do you think it's about? No, I believe that the Bible is clear, especially in Paul's writings, that believing in God is entirely about his work in giving us the free gifts of Jesus, the new birth, and the Holy Spirit from the Father as our one God so that we respond to want to follow Jesus and his principles throughout life. That teaching is the way the Bible presents God's rescue only through Jesus' perfect life and death that get us God's approval unearned. Some Christians have been influenced by other religions, which are definitely ones that follow the rules to please their gods.
  
  In the Bible God rescues us first without our deserving it and then begins transforming us to be like Jesus. We also read and listen to messages about the Bible so that we can follow him better and better in his power, not our own. That's why we go to church and read the Bible and pray.
  
  I hope that this explanation helps you understand the biblical Christian faith in contrast to other faiths.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree...and I disagree with you trying to "whoop-up" with a consensus in your favor...on the topic. If I did that in retrospect...there would not be an end to the discussion.
  
  I find only a balance listed to help with life...whereas you see only rules. Whoever told you the rules...did it the wrong way...they forgot to mention the key behind everything was Love. Did your parents/any caregiver/ guardian give you rules ? Was it out of spite? Sorry to hear you disagree with Christianity. but Christians will believe what they want...and you can believe what you want! Christians believe what they believe...and you have no deep understanding of what they believe...(and granted when many folks explain...thay fall short...myself included). Why not just go about your day: Peacefully..in respect of others believes? i bet you would...if they talked of any other topic!
  
  Did someone try to cram their message down your throat...? I aplologize for their over-zealousness. I had a guy shoot the rod at me last week while driving while I was laughing at his bull-headedness. That doesn't mean I had to go on forums and condemn bull-headed drivers for the rest of my life!
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity makes perfect sense if you only stop and think about it.
  
  Believe that Jesus was crucified and resurrected for your sinfulness.
  
  Love God.
  Don't worship idols.
  Honour your parents and love them.
  Don't steal.
  Don't kill.
  Don't lie.
  Don't commit adultery.
  Love yourself.
  Love your family and friends.
  Love your neighbor.
  Love or Show compassion to your enemy.
  
  These are the rules and regulations of civilization, not just organized religions
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Dave Mathews
  
  Jesus did not die on the Cross in the first place so ther is no question for his resurrection. This is the core point where Christianity loses it sense.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Me, Steve Waltersposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend paarsurrey
  
  Says you: ["Jesus did not die on the Cross in the first place"]
  
  ["Historical Roman records have confirmed that he was put to the cross for crucifixion"]:Says I
  
  Me, Steve Walters, Peaceful Person
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where are these records please?
  
  Mark - Peaceable Atheist - not sure who's religion is worse - yours or his.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  his
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - you would say that.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought we were voting??
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here is the basis for you to begin to refute the validity: http://www.bible.ca/d-history-archeolog … -cross.htm
  
  It has been researched before (or you can choose to believe paarsurrey) by folks more knowledgeable about such thinks. And... it is no more a requirement for me to open my big mouth with a statement on here...then it is for you! For everything a Christian would say on this thread would be pointless...anyways.
  
  Me, Steve Walters, Peaceful Person...not sure who's thinking his worse...yours or his!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe a word he says. But - there is no historical evidence outside the bible - either of a person called Jesus - or a crucifixion of this person. That link has nothing.
  
  Trust me - I have looked and can find nothing. Blind faith is worst. No question. here you are arguing in favor of something that is untrue and incorrect.
  
  Seriously - I would love for you to point at some actual "Roman records" that show something. Anything. Even the census that sent Joseph to Nazareth is BS - never happened - no records. None. Do some research before defending a position, please.
  
  And why is my thinking "bad"? Because I don't swallow the fairy tale you defend?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow...Why does anytime some one come on to Hub Page Forums with an alternative view...it is "arguing". They have to debate their cause...and prove it beyond a shadow of doubt...so that the other person can refute and prove they are the great "all knowing" one.
  
  I don't give a fractured nickel about your tireless research...your proof...or non-proof in your eyes. I find it all a weak attempt to justify your actions...personally! Why someone would go on the defense day after day after day...about how they are the one who is right about everything...is beyond me. Way beyond my thinking...actually! They either have something to prove to themselves or to the world...to be that overblown on the same topic everyday with the need to feel like they are right...and I'm not talking about passion! Passion has another gear...this kind of thinking is along the lines of obsessive compulsive...if I had to give an opinion. And I just did!
  
  You don't think that the minute I handed you a headline dated by Roman newspaper daily report of the time...that you wouldn't refute it 110% Ha! Of course you would...I have been in these arguments time and time again. One side will never win...over the other...and that's Ok. It doesn't have to...it's all part of a grand design! I have been hearing my Christian Peers and Men of degreed status in theology-type words that I can't even pronounce..talk about chronicled evidence thereby stating that Jesus was put to death...and that was stated in the link I posted (after glancing at the internet for five minutes). The known form of execution of the period was the crucifixion. You want more proof...You can listen to Christian Radio for twenty years and I'm sure the topic will be covered thoroughly once again to your liking or disliking! That's where I've heard mention of it...in my little world. Your welcome to listen to it...any ol' time.
  
  This is a thread Forum and I am not in agreement with how the question is posed...or with paarsurrey's irrational comment. That's a fact...and that don't take any research to spew forth from fingertips to the monitor...it is as plain as the camera over one of your eyes. I ain't agreeing with this thread topic...there i said it again to really make it plain and simple.
  
  Both the question to lead this thread and the comment made by paarsurrey were irrational ramblings. So...why then would I have to research and make notice of every remark I make? Get a life! This is not Point-Counterpoint Debate Class 101. It's the gosh-darn Hub Pages Forum...and I for one am tired of the day to day "baby' bickering that gets spewed about Christians. Like 'em, love 'em, despise 'em...whatever! Then clamp up about it and move on with your life for crying out loud...Geez!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - no evidence of Roman records to show me then? Best to ask me to stop pointing out that your beliefs are based on lies.
  
  Paarsurrey is just pushing his ridiculous religion, nothing else.
  
  But - his assertion that there is no actual evidence that a person called Jesus was crucified is not irrational.
  
  Please show me where I can find some contemporary evidence and these "roman records" that you claim prove it.
  
  Not some laughable bible site. Yes - you are arguing that Jesus actually existed and claiming to have proof. This is what you base your religion on, and I am merely pointing out that it is untrue. I do not care about 20 years of Christian propaganda that has persuaded you there is evidence - when there is not.
  
  Any time.
  
  And what "actions" are these that I am attempting to justify? Not believing? Dear me.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Roman historian Tacitus and Flavius Josephus
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Any links?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Josephus
  Tacitus
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Neither link works.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.livius.org/ta-td/tacitus/tacitus.html
  http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/christianity/tacitus.html
  
  http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/josephus/josephus.htm
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I fail to see any mention of jesus there. And, this is not an authoritative source, in fact there are no sources there, just thoughts of a random historian... I can make such sites several a day, on any topic.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Make of them what you will i just put them up in reply to mark asking about roman historians.
  Tacitus is a good read about romes history around that time regardless of if you believe the bit on the christians or not and plenty of sites for him on google.
  Josephus seems a little dubious and fanciful but also has many sites on google.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cool, I am spelling this out for you. Question was about Roman historical records showing mention of jesus. You failed to show any.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is because there are no Roman historical records that mention Jesus. But - they will argue 'till they are blue in the face that there are.
  
  And when you ask for these "historical Roman records" they invariably put links that this guy put - which he has clearly never read. I guess some one told them that Josephus mentions Jesus and therefore everything is true.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I pretty much figured Can't stand the temptation to let the guys to show off their irrationality, though
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Guess you're the smart one then. You win by golly...Your point to have the facts constantly smacking you in the face...has demonstrated that you are "Superior"...and we Christians are mere simpletons...without hard facts in front of us all the time...Right? Gee...I guess I was just shown the truth right here in a thread putting down Christianity...Who knew...Wow...Not!
  
  For every, every, everything said here on Hub Page Forums...for as long as I've viewed many of the putrid comments against Christianity...Everyone always has an exact rebuttal waiting in their quiver. So...I'm guessing that debating and "arguing" will never resolve this matter on Hub Page Forums. So far...I'm right! How is anyone ever going to debate a belief system...with a few words...Ha! Who is foolish enough to think that anyone possibly can? Again...Not!. Yet...here ya' go again!
  
  Save it...real devoted, "walking-daily" Christians are not phased by your belief structure. They are only saddened by it! They will somehow manage to press on through their beliefs with out your approval...and it will be a cake-walk. Every now and then, they will let the "talking down of Jesus and God" get to them...and speak out. For which you will have a rebuttal-in the waiting-along the lines of "proof". I don't need proof...I know what I know through a hard to explain daily event in my life that coincides with my heart. I wish I could do a better job of explaining it...but as of yet...Not!
  
  Which leads my train of thought back to why Christianity and God are so attacked daily? Is it because you can...and you (and many others) feel the need to? Is it because Christians are so "dog-gone" weak and stupid! Ha! For whatever the reason...it is'nt going to matter in the final outcome (EEEWW...I bet you didn't like me saying something like that with out any proof...to back it! Yet...I did...I just Did!) Yippee...for the silent few to whom only enter through a very wide door! Every now and again...the simple ones say something right...against them that need proof! Yipee...for me! And I really am not concerned by how foolish that may sound to you...or others reading this! I believe what I believe.
  
  Just know...for everytime you feel so smug with your elaborate responses...It simnply has no bearing on others belief structure!
  
  Let me ask you a question...because I honestly know that I don't have all the answers about God and my Savior, Jesus Christ. What makes you think you have all the answers in any one area while travelling upon this crusted layer of liquid rock that changes with every tick of the clock?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have all the answers.
  I don't think I have very many answers at all.
  I showed that there is no historical evidence for Jesus - that is all.
  
  Smug? Why? Because I have done some research and found some information? Excuse me for educating myself.. Not.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL your a cynical man Mark.
  My whole family are atheists but i aint got the pation you have.
  Im guessing your parents were christians an thats why you hate them
  its not healthy you know.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not hate my parents. Please do not tell lies about me.
  
  Thank you.
  
  Disgusting religion. Are all of you liars?
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh your right it doesnt say jesus, i need to get my eyes checked.
  Sorry guys didnt mean to lead you down the garden path.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hehe i see where you come in the food chain Misha.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dont know of any Roman historical records but Tacitus is a Roman historian so thought that might qualify.
  Josephus is jewish historian but became and adviser to the Romans.
  
  From how Tacitus (Annals, 15.44) describes the christians i think they didnt see them as anything more than a cult so its not suprising they dont mention it anywhere, and why would they unless they believed in the messiah prophesies.
  
  "Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. "
  
  Gives some weight to how they saw them.
  
  Maybe i should start a thread on Tacitus and see how many bites it gets what do your recon?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You still failed
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty much exactly the same way you are seen today actually. Tacitus was born 56 years after the so-called "crucifixion." and does not mention either Jesus, or Crucifixion. Dear me.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was refering to your hate of christians not your parents, how would i know how you feel about them unless you ragged on them in a post somewhere aswell??
  
  You actually make atheist's appear insecure.
  
  I checked the science forums earlier (yawn) and see why you come here a lot.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My? Dear me
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - another troll with nothing to say other than attack some one else. Great.
  
  I don't hate christians. I am ambivalent about christians until I know them personally and love quite a few of them. But - I do hate their morally empty, hypocritical, unfounded irrational belief system.
  
  ciao
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  Terrydfreeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is a fairly well-established fact that Jesus Christ was publicly executed in Judea in the 1st Century A.D., under Pontius Pilate, by means of crucifixion, at the behest of the Jewish Sanhedrin. The non-Christian historical accounts of Flavius Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, Maimonides and even the Jewish Sanhedrin corroborate the early Christian eyewitness accounts of these important historical aspects of the death of Jesus Christ.
  
  As for His resurrection, there are several lines of evidence which make for a compelling case. The late jurisprudential prodigy and international statesman Sir Lionel Luckhoo (of The Guinness Book of World Records fame for his unprecedented 245 consecutive defense murder trial acquittals) epitomized Christian enthusiasm and confidence in the strength of the case for the resurrection when he wrote, “I have spent more than 42 years as a defense trial lawyer appearing in many parts of the world and am still in active practice. I have been fortunate to secure a number of successes in jury trials and I say unequivocally the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt.”
  
  The secular community’s response to the same evidence has been predictably apathetic in accordance with their steadfast commitment to methodological naturalism. For those unfamiliar with the term, methodological naturalism is the human endeavor of explaining everything in terms of natural causes and natural causes only. If an alleged historical event defies natural explanation (e.g., a miraculous resurrection), secular scholars generally treat it with overwhelming skepticism, regardless of the evidence, no matter how favorable and compelling it may be.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No - it is not. The "historical accounts" you quote say no such thing.
  
  Compelling case?
  
  "If an alleged historical event defies natural explanation (e.g., a miraculous resurrection), secular scholars generally treat it with overwhelming skepticism, regardless of the evidence, no matter how favorable and compelling it may be."
  
  Yes - they do. Especially when there is absolutely no evidence at all - none.
  
  Speaking of LOL "evidence" I think we are using that term in different ways. What "evidence" do you have exactly?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Where are these records please?"
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See above!
  
  Me, Steve Walters, Peaceful Person
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. Have you even read that? I suspect not. No "Historical Roman records have confirmed that he was put to the cross for crucifixion" at all. None. Nothing to refute.
  
  And if you are going to provide "facts" - at least try and make it impartial.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Roman records circa the year of the crucifixion.
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Faith in Jesus is not designed for rule breakers.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  or thinkers who can read.
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  Liberateposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Liberate
  
  Some Where In My Writings, I'm Here To Spread The Word Of God, Nothing Less.
  My Life Ambition Is To Allow People To See The Light Of God.
  
  You're Alive, Listen To Me. I Speak The Truth. God Is Real, And Loves Each And Every One Of You.
  
  Please Help Me Spread My Writings!
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  Amie Warrenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I simply cannot believe that some invisible being in the sky controls my every move and my destiny. I refuse to believe it. Anyway, none of my friends are going to heaven, so why should I?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The "God" I know isn't over there.
  He/she/it is the air that we breath.
  the song in the songbird, and the crick in the cricket.
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  Christian Craigposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is removed by understanding. I know that this is an old topic but I am just going to say this. Have you done your research? Have truly tried to understand? because if have not you are just as bad as some hypcritical christians, some very zealous muslims and most misguided jews. seek out truth to its fullest. do your research to it's complete understanding before you call anything stupid. Have an awesome day
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good one. Slam 'em for the Gipper C.C. Knowledge, wisdom and logic, and in a lovely package I might add. The Almighty does some fine work! If these "seekers" of truth and enlightenment would actually read the words of the Nazarene, they would see the true depth of global apostasy. As long as they look to the current churches, they will be deceived into the false teaching that everyone who goes to church is in the "up" elevator. We are charged to not judge in that manner. Understanding of the meaning of the scriptures is the purvey of God, and God alone. He allows one to read what is written. To others, it makes no sense, until such time as He decides to unlock it to them, on a personal level.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  While few if any believers have taken the time to understand the differences between their own religion and other religions, even fewer (if any) have taken the time to "understand" or do the "research" into why their religions are only myths and superstitions from the Bronze Age.
  
  Have you done that?
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  michael's sonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have studied many religions the world over and have brought together what i believe in today. And i understand that religious beliefs are simply a matter of opinion not right and wrong. None of us can ever know what is truth and what has been fabricated by the minds of men. The only one who knows such things is "God" that is to say if he exist. I believe "God" does exist because of all i have experienced in my life. But my beliefs are mine and yours are yours. None of us has the right to tell any other person whether or not they are right. All we can do is study, pray, and meditate to find out what we believe in.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would contradict this thread which you created:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/61891
  
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  TeamJesusMin2010posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why do you think Christianity doesn't make sense? what doesn't make sense about it??
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  wba108@yahoo.composted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your right Christianity makes no sense. Jesus was born to be king in a stable, sent to be crucified a common criminal by the religious leaders of His own nation, rejected by those He came to save, and denied by His closest friends. What Jesus taught made no sense at all. He said blessed are the poor in spirit, those that mourn, the meek and those who are insulted and persecuted. That were to die to live, when we're weak we're strong, its more blessed to give than to relieve,and lay down your lives for others.
  
  Jesus choose a bunch of uneducated fishermen as his disciples instead of the young bright boys from the religious schools. He chose to associate with societies outcasts and greatly offended the religious leaders by choosing to ignore there rules. He spoke out against the corruption of the powerful religious system that had apparent power of life and death over Him. He turned down the opportunity to be king at the people's request. He preformed countless miracles but refused to prove Himself when the religious leaders asked for a sign.
  
  How much sense is there to believe that among the many paths to salvation, Christ has the only true one? How much sense is it to believe in and dedicate our lives to someone you can't even see feel or touch? Does it make sense to defy the majority of people who who think the message of Christ is foolish? Does it make sense to infuriate the religious leaders by spitting in mud rolling it up into little balls and rubbing it into the eyes of a blind man so he could see. The Jewish law valued cleanliness greatly. Why didn't He just speak to the blind man so he would be healed? Why did Jesus insist on routinely breaking the sabbath by healing on the sabbath instead of every other day. Why did he choose to look foolish and weak before those who hated Him when He had complete power to destroy any enemy? He was crucified naked before his enemies while they mocked and spit on him after He had been beaten beyond recognition.
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EFPotterposted 15 years ago
The impression I get from this is that you don't know very much about about actual Christianity, its systems, its different sects, and its two different books.

The way Christians act can be confusing--to everyone. Christians (just like everyone else) can say terrible deplorable things, say it's because God says so, and then give the rest of the religion a bad rap. That's why I was an atheist for years, because of all the negativity I associated with Christians. But not all Christians are bigots, and not all interpretations of the Bible demand bigotry and ignorance toward other human beings (a little like the original post exhibits).

You can't judge a library by one section. Don't judge a religion by some of its practitioners.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  All I have to say to you on this subject?
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/34520#top
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  kessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity makes plenty sense and that is what makes it dangerous.
  
  The lies are so cleverly hidden causes many get into it so deep then find it difficult to exit.
  
  If it did not make sense it could not deceive so many.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Kess, what lies are you referring to?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He is reffering to only the ones that you are believing.
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your article contradicts itself in places and is at times hard to understand, such as here:
  
  "If you are selfish, then you go against everything you are taught by the bible. The bible tells you be selfless. It doesn't tell precise how to go about doing it, but it gives you a generalize understanding.
  
  To be selfless is the OPPOSITE of being selfish. So, hence you are in direct violation of the teaching you supposedly live by."
  
  1.) You say that if you are selfish then you go against everything you are taught by the bible because the bible tells you to be selfless.
  2.) To be selfless is the opposite of being selfish.
  
  If you are being selfless, then how are you being selfish, again?
  
  Also, you state in the article that a life for that person after death is a person's only reason for religious view. That's completely false.
  
  You say over and over that a religious view is selfish, but you fail to prove it with any of your statements. Saying the same thing many times doesn't make it true.
  
  There are religious communities and individuals who don't help people. There are many who are. There are non-religious communities who help people. There are many who don't.
  
  So, all that you have to say to me on the subject hasn't amounted to anything.
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My last comment addressed to Cagsil, to be clear.
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  Liberateposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Being Christian Means Nothing, Without Actions. It's Just A Title.
  
  I've Helped Heaps Of People With Depression, Spend Countless Hours Trying To Be There For People, I'm In Last In Class, Cleaning It, I'm Always Polite.
  
  I Treat Everyone With Respect, I Teach People Sports, I Help People Find Friends, I Introduce People To New Friends, I Compliment Everyone.
  I Believe Every Girl Is Beautiful, I Don't Judge, I've Always Been A Kind Person...
  
  Now, Regardless What I Am... I'll Never Be Good Enough In The Eyes Of God, Though. I Continue Being Who I Am, For Him.
  
  I Don't Even Think I'm Good Enough, Now. If I Stopped Believing In God.
  I'll Still Be All Those Things...
  
  A Christian Without Actions, Is Only A Title.
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect, all versions of the Bible do indeed demand prejudice and bigotry against those outside the Chosen Tribes of people. Often, they demand the deaths of those even within the Tribes who don't go along with the agenda.
  
  Christianity is made up of groups that claim special truth. Each group differs just enough from the others to make them think that they are the Chosen. Ask any Baptist, or Pentecostal, or Seventh Day Adventist, or JW, or Mormon, or Catholic. Not to mention the 30,000 or so other denominations, sects, and cults. It's been that way almost from the beginning.
  
  Just ask any good Gnostic!
  
  Blessings...
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Richard. Which parts of the Bible "demand prejudice and bigotry"? Do Jesus' and Paul's and John's and Peter's teachings do that? Old Testament Israel had a specific task to destroy the Canaanite tribes residing in the Promised Land because their "cup of iniquity" was full (Genesis 15). The Canaanites were given 400 years from Abraham's time to turn from their evil ways but refused. Their religion included the sacrifice of their children and sexual intercourse to please the god Baal. No wonder the Judge of the universe lowered the boom of judgment on them! He is, after all, a just God who cannot tolerate human rebellion but is abundantly patient.
  
  The Bible says that our Creator has a right to claim our lives for his moral ways. When we refuse to believe in and follow him, he has a perfect right to judge us guilty. Jesus came to rescue us from his Father's verdict of guilty through faith in him.
  
  Richard, those groups that you mention might be divided between the Bible-believing Christians like the Baptists, the Pentecostals, and Seventh Day Adventists (you could add Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Reformed Christians) and the cults (JW and Mormons). The first group all agrees on the basics (the 3-in-1 God--Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit; Jesus as the God-man who accomplished our rescue by his perfect life, death, and resurrection; and the Bible as the Word of God. They only differ on the much-less-important matters like the sacraments and which days to celebrate God. The cults that you mention disagree with the Christian groups on the basic Christian beliefs. I hope this explanation helps you.
  
  You have a right to your opinions.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yet they all agree to ONE misconception in common..
  They all teash that something that scripture clearly says did happen, they teach it didn't.
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  ChimPhungHoangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The impression I get is that if the OP didn't have the time to research proper use of spelling, grammar and punctuation I have to doubt he truly researched the actual subject of his poorly-written post.
  I suggest if you are going to intentionally insult a major portion of the population that you at least make sure your post is properly written.
  I don't care all that much since I have real writing to do but the errors caught my eye.
  Sorry.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can judge them by the real word of God.
  The poster made a statement about how he felt about Christianity as a whole.
  You turned around and called him an ignorant bigot.(Judgment)
  Your reaction, how very loving.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beautifully said. Frankly, life doesn't make sense. The continued arguments about how it does, but only if you think this way or that way, are fruitless and moot in the grand scheme of things.
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Has_aWayWithWordsposted 15 years ago
This is why I worship in my own way and in my own home. I do not participate in organized religion as so much of it is hypocracy (spelling?) I n my view of religion god is an understanding and forgiving being that will accept anyone into his/her heart and kingdom at some point.
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  DGBposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree 100% i follow my own simple beliefs that work. i agree with Has_aWayWithWords
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Has_. It is the consensus of all Christians that take the Bible seriously as revealing God that the he is indeed understanding and forgiving; he has those qualities in common with the Muslim Allah. However, the biblical 3-in-1 God also has the quality of justice as our Creator-Judge and cannot tolerate the depths of rebellion into which humans have fallen, as evidenced by many comments on this post.
  
  That situation is the human dilemma: our abundant imperfections and God's perfect justice in punishing imperfection that the human race chooses freely.
  
  The solution is in the God-man Jesus' perfection which takes our place in his life, death, and resurrection so that God looks on all who trust in him as perfect inspite of their imperfections. It's Jesus who obtained our "not-guilty" verdict and life that lasts forever instead of eternal separation from him through his free gift of faith. Those beliefs set Christian beliefs off from all other spiritual approaches to God and the universe. See my other posts for more details.
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Lady_Eposted 15 years ago
If it doesn't make sense to you then don't dabble in it.
You don't HAVE TO be a Christian.
Simple.
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lady_E could not have said it any better
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ralwusposted 15 years ago
No religion 'makes sense' but I don't call any one of them stupid either. That is downright demeaning.
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ralwul you are very right. I may not agree to a belief however I would never call it stupid where others that do believe in it are prone to visit!
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awareposted 15 years ago
its stupid to call others ideas and beliefs stupid . do you agree?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. Some beliefs are simply stupid all by themselves.
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  jeanc1121posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Earnestshub, you may take aim at religion, but what about the teachings of holy people - Jesus, for example?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus may or may not have existed. I opt for the latter. So much of what is written as his words were the words of those who came before him.
  I do not believe in people who have been dead for 2000 years running my life even if they did exist once, and I do not believe that he did.
  I see the christians and muslims are hacking each other to death in Africa again as I write.
  All over a pile of ninth rate belief in different versions of the sky fairy.
  It is just nuts!
  
  The crazy bit is claiming to be a christian without religion, now that is just weird!
  Where did you hear about jc if you are not into the "good book"
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  Miss Takeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest Hub what do you really know about anything, tell us that.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Read and find out.
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  jeanc1121posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  a Christian is a follower of, a believer in Christ. You could be a Christian and not belong to an organized religion with man made rules. You'd be someone who took the teachings of Jesus and His example of living a good life and tried to incorporate those things into your own life.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  While you ignored all the rest of your hate-filled tome right?
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earnestshub, I agree with you that even though we disagree with each other, we should be able to get along and respect each other's beliefs. I've asked you before what passages of the Bible are hate-filled. You never responded as far as I know.
  
  You can't be referring to Genesis or the New Testament, because God the Creator and Covenant Maker is described in Genesis, and Jesus teaches us to love our enemies. He is the only head of a spiritual group to give us that seemingly-impossible command in addition to the one that calls us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. Prophet Paul calls us to rejoice, pray, and be thankful always (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18). John calls us love each other self-sacrificially as Christ loved us by dying for us.
  
  You can't get any higher ethical standards than those guidelines. If the early church made them up, they certainly wouldn't have made them that hard to follow. God must have revealed those commands and provided the means through Jesus' perfect life, death, and resurrection--all events that no one could have thought up. How's that reasoning for you within the strong evidence of the Bible itself?
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you, earnestshub, that Christians' and Muslims' killing each other is wrong. However, sometimes imperfect people let their emotions control them when their homes and families are threatened.
  
  That's no excuse, but it's a way to understand that conflict. Christians especially should be following the peaceful teachings of Jesus, I agree. But why do you deny Jesus' existence. Many eyewitnesses witnessed the three years that he led the disciples and did miracles, his death on the cross, and his resurrection. They were willing to die for their experiences and testimonies. What more credible eyewitnesses can you have than that kind? I always try to understand people's beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs, and that way I can accept them as fellow humans rather than judging them or calling them names.
  
  I don't believe in condemning a set of spiritual beliefs because of the actions of some the followers. Why generalize about all of the followers of a spiritual group because of a few disobedient ones?
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  aware I agree with you by calling a belief stupid it only gets those people who believe in them insulted and aggravated; good point you have made
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qwarkposted 15 years ago
....stupid is as stupid does...
if it waddles like a duck...etc....enuf said.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Qwark, who set you up as the perfect judge of people's beliefs? On what basis do you make that accusation? Please explain yourself. How can you be so sure that your reasoning powers are not faulty and wrong? Why do you label and put down others for their sincere beliefs? What bad experiences have you had with Christians and churches?
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  tweetterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are exactly right, people have their own beliefs, let them go through their own way.
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SirDentposted 15 years ago
Christianity is actually the only belief system that makes sense.
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  mdawson17posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sirdent you have said it perfectly. Though their is many rules and much structure in our belief their is also allot of forgiveness and love.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And grace, mdawson17 (Ephesians 2:1-10)!
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This may be true for you. For others, they feel the same for their own religions, and can't imagine feeling that way for another.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You should write the handle of whomever you are addressing, at least.
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Both of you whom I was replying to. You, SirDent, stated that it was the only belief system that made sense. mdawson17 agreed.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A question for you. Do you know why Jesus is debated more than any other subject?
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because Christianity is the largest religion in the world with the most aggressive approach to conversion, and the most different divisions and disagreements within its own overall religion.
  
  I'm not making negative or positive implications with those reasons, just answering the question.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One thing that Christianity has that all other belief systems fail on is the need for a Savior. This in itself makes Christianity unique. Wouldn't you say so?
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In many ancient religions, gods dying and being resurrected is quite common. A Savior isn't as common. The Jewish, who share our Old Testament, believe in a Savior, but not that Jesus was that savior.
  
  Uniqueness doesn't make a religion the only one that makes sense to everyone. All I'm arguing is that Christianity makes sense to some, doesn't to others, like all religions.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are generalizing. No Hebrew calls him Jesus because He was Yahshua. But a lot of Jews believe Yahshua was The Messiah.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  EFPotter, one quality that the God of the Bible has that no religion or spiritual group's God has is grace. All of the other groups including the cults have self-help commands to measure up to those Gods' moral standards to gain their Gods' acceptance. The God of the Bible reveals in his book that we cannot at all please him with our own imperfect efforts, but Jesus' provided that perfection in our place so that God declares believers right with him because of Jesus' perfection, not because of our actions. Then, he transforms our lives (ask me how he did my life) to love him and accept his grace (his free, unearned grace).
  
  Why is the uniqueness of the idea and power of God's grace important? I believe that it is because it's not a usual part of human experience or thought in performance-oriented humanity, and therefore God had to reveal it in his book rather than the people who wrote those 66 books thinking it up.
  
  I agree with you, EF, that Christianity makes sense to some but not to others. That's OK. I just call on everyone in this post to keep an open mind to other people's ideas, not that you have to accept mine or anyone else's.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
I think Christianity makes sense to the people that believe in it.
For me it doesn't because I don't believe.

But I wouldn't say it's stupid!
Some people that believe in it are, as some atheists are stupid as well.
I don't understand what's the point of this thread.
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you completely, tantrum.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  nice to meet you !
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Except for the part about Christianity making no sense to me- to me, Christianity actually makes the most sense- that sounds almost word-for-word like something I'd say.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, tantrum. You have an interesting username. It seems to me that the point of this and all threads is to share and to understand each other's ideas about religion and Christianity. I believe in trying to find out why people believe what they believe with respect and without anger. Life's too short to get angry with each other. Let's understand each other, and then maybe we can prevent angry outbursts and violence. That's the way I see it.
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Going2Oahuposted 15 years ago
I've always wondered about Christianity. I mean, er.. I guess I'm a Christian (was raised a Christian) but I don't quite understand the concept. So, if I believe in Jesus Christ and confess my sins I get to spend eternity praising Him?

I mean, describe a day in heaven to me? Do we sleep for awhile and then go do a shift of praising Jesus. I'm not trying to be funny here - it really has me puzzled.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A day in Heaven? We're talking about infinity. Words like "day" don't mean the same.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Going2Oahu. May I join you there in Hawaii :-)? I'm sorry that I don't have a complete answer for you. Valerie F is right. The Bible describes our future as Christians just enough to give us tangible hope for Jesus' return.
  
  As I see the Bible's teachings on the future, here's what it seems to me to be the order of events before our time in Jesus' final place. (1) If Jesus comes back before we die, he transforms us without death into these bodies made perfect (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). (2) If we die before he comes, our souls or personalities go before our Maker to be sent to hell or heaven (Hebrews 9:27; Philippians 1:21-24; 2 Corinthians 5:9,10). (3) When Jesus comes back again, he will bring our souls back with him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) on the clouds of heaven to be with him forever. That last passage doesn't say where we will be with Jesus. (4) The universe will be burned off with God's fire (2 Peter 3:7-13). (5) God will create a new, perfect universe with believers as his perfect, resurrected people (Isaiah 65:17-25--described in picture, poetic language; Revelation 21:1-4). (6) They (pictured as the new Jerusalem with a wedding dress--believers as the "bride of Jesus"--the rest of Revelation 21 and 22) will come with Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit--the one God--down to the new earth, which will be heaven on earth, where believers will rule with and under Jesus forever.
  
  You can read Revelation 21 and 22 to get a symbolic picture of our future life on the new earth with God as his new Jerusalem. I know this. Our new resurrection bodies (read 1 Corinthians 15 for Paul's inspired description) won't need sleep; they will be perfectly-powerful. I believe that our new bodies will be like Jesus' resurrection body that entered the upper room even though the doors were locked.
  
  I hope that my summary helps you, Going2Oahu. I know that our future life will even be much better than living in Hawaii :-)!
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The Learnerposted 15 years ago
This is in response to several different comments throughout this discussion:

1) Christianity is not a set of rules that we are supposed to keep. I am sorry if it has been explained to you in this way. Christianity is about a relationship with God through Christ. Just like in a relationship between husband and wife, there are certain things you do or don't do to help keep the relationship happy. Your actions, though, are rooted in love not in the rules themselves.

2) Christianity is about much more than "getting into heaven." I read that some have questions about heaven, I would be glad to dialogue with you if you would like to send me a message.

3) Does Christianity make sense? Well, logically speaking it does have its own systematic belief system. However, some would argue that it doesn't make sense because it is based on the miracle of Jesus being resurrected from the dead. It is logical, it does make sense, but it takes faith to believe. If there was not an element of faith in it, it would either be proven fact or proven mythology; either everyone would believe in it or no one would. But, as it is, it requires faith to believe in it. If you don't have faith in it, it does make sense to you until someone explains parts that begin to make all of Christianity more clear.

4) It seems that a lot of people talk about different religions with no basis for their conversations. For example, I would not talk a great deal about Hinduism because I know very little about it. Anything I said would be stereotypical and generalizations. It seems that some things that have been said are not based on personal exploration into Christianity, but on generalizations made by media or friends. I would encourage one to look into Christianity before deeming it "believable," "stupid," or "illogical."

5) If it all comes down to "what I believe works for me," then there's no point in believing in anything. Believing in something does not make it true -- objective truth is what should be believed in.

Potter, I don't think we're "supposed" to post links to our own hubs on here. But you might be interested in reading a couple of mine about increasing dialogue between Christians and Atheists and the Existence of God.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See the problem here?
  
  You do not believe in objective truth. You have faith in something unproven. I am not stupid and I know what the word "objective," means and faith has no place in that term .
  
  So please do not treat us like idiots. Thanks.
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  DGBposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i am not calling any followers of the religion stupid i am merrly just saying you can't learn everything in the bible , it is just imposiable
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DGB, I invite you to get an easy-to-understand translation like the New International Version and read it through; it'll take you about three years at one chapter a day. I've read it through many times. Everytime I become more convinced that God is the amazing God that he claims he is. The Catholics and many Protestants agree that God is mysterious, yet revealed and three Persons in one God. I cannot understand him fully. Why should he make complete sense to my reasoning as his mere creature? He's God and I'm not.
  
  Why should we be able to figure out a God who is all-powerful, everywhere-present, and all-knowing when we don't have any of those qualities. God is also very different from humans who don't believe in him in his love, grace, justice, holiness, and many other perfections. You will admit with me that we're very imperfect, and we choose to be. God accepts us only because of our trust in God-man Jesus' perfect life, death, and resurrection in our place.
  
  All of these comments sum up to say that Christian beliefs are so unlike human thinking that God had to reveal them rather than the minds that produced the 66 books of the Bible dreaming them up. Consider my biblical logic; it makes sense if you accept the Bible's teachings. Any other approach also is a position of faith in our rational powers or other people's ideas. Perhaps our reasoning is wrong or other people are leading us into error.
  
  I invite you to read the Bible to consider God's claims as your Creator and as the one who wants to rescue you from imperfection and unbelief.
  
  However, you can believe or not believe what you want to.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hello?
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Learner, I agree with you totally. You might check out some of my recent responses. Thanks for your level-headed approach, brother.
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zzronposted 15 years ago
It makes perfect sense to me, can't argue with common sense.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Christianity doesn't make sense who agrees?

Religion is a hoax. However, I've come to learn and realize, plus understand- Jesus was not part of religion. His work was incorporated into religion, so as to keep the followers he had.

Common-sense and reasoning, when used properly, allow one to know that religion is fake, in and of, itself.

I'll even use a message from Jesus to prove it. Jesus told his followers, that the Roman "GOD" didn't exist and was a false idol.

Many people don't realize Jesus simply refused to teach religion and they dismiss his words, when he tells them to not worship a false idol or god.

However, with this knowledge develops a conflict? What conflict? The conflict of Jesus versus Moses of Religion's history?

If Jesus dismissed the "GOD" of religion, then he also dismissed everything else it has to offer. That means, he understood that Moses the story was simply that...a story.

Thus, this creates the many contradiction in religion. Jesus' message is for every single individual, but the point is to be aware of your thoughts and honest in your actions with others. When you learn to control yourself, you become at peace with yourself, which in turn allows you to gain self-esteem, self-confidence and build up your faith in yourself. Thus, resulting in loving yourself and the spirituality befit a human being.
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  The Learnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where or when did Jesus teach his disciples that "the Roman 'God' didn't exist"? I can't find that teaching anywhere in the Bible or in any Christian teaching.
  
  Jesus came to ancient Israel at a time when the Roman Empire ruled the territory. Many groups of that time, namely the Pharisees and members of a community called Qumran, were very religously trying to seek God. These groups sought to do this by separating themselves from "ungodly" people and observe specific purity rules.
  
  When Jesus came he ate with these "sinners" and explained that the laws that the "religious" people were following were not pleasing to God. He redefined "religion" as a relationship with God. A person should live his or her life as an outflow of his love for God, especially manifested in his love for other people.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very well put!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi, Cagsil. We meet again. I hope that we will discover before we die which of our lines of reasoning that we rely on (read my recent posts) is correct. You have shown that you trust in your reasoning and common sense; that is a kind of faith. Would you call it humanism? Your last paragraph points in that direction. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to understand your objections to the Christian faith.
  
  You want to build your self-esteem and self-confidence. Christian believers who are united with Jesus, while remaining human, but empowered to follow him more and more each day have God- and Jesus-confidence by relying on his divine power to enable them to love and practice grace to everyone, including you, Cagsil. That kind of love and grace are out-of-this-world divine, but God gives those qualities to believers in lifelong process of following him. We are far from perfect, but God is changing us permanently. It's not by human effort but by his power that we can love you and everyone. It's God the Father through Jesus by the Spirit's power that that one God transforms Christians.
  
  I invite you to trust in him, but you can do as you wish.
  
  Learner, very well put!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Last night I saw a scientist on TV subject water dousers to a double blind study. They all failed totally, yet not one single "believer: accepted the truth. Every one of them stuck to their disproven beliefs.
Religion is the same faith based rubbish, only even more bizarre!
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earnestshub, you make such interesting generalizations. I invite you to get specific.
  
  what do you trust in for meaning in life? We all do, you know. It's just that we trust or rely on different objects of our faith.
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aguasilverposted 15 years ago
Found this comment today on a blog and it addresses this subject rather well:

"Jesus Christ, in a parable about the end of time, welcomes a group into heaven with the words: “I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me a drink”. Not only does he not ask them what they believed, but they seem even to have forgotten that they have done these acts of service. No matter: “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers you do to me”, was Christ’s reply of assurance.

That sums it up.

What we do seems to be the key, balanced against John 3:16-19.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Best answer that ever will be.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're correct, aquasilver, but notice also that it wasn't the sheep's works that rescued like the non-Christian beliefs say. They were the ones blessed by Jesus the Judge's Father (Matthew 25:34) with the kingdom of God that has been planned from before creation. On the basis of that passage, I believe that it takes God's rescuing power through Jesus by the Spirit--that one God--to get us into that future world (see my other responses). The result has to be our thankful, joyful obedience in his strength. Believers are all born as self-centered, independent goats whom God transforms into submissive sheep in his life-long process toward perfection in the next life.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
No religion makes sense, all are about fear hate and control at some level.
Proving religion is bunk has no affect on religionists, why would it?
People who believe this crap are unwell.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And controlled by their subconscious.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly!
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, earnestshub, I'm unwell with my many imperfections, but God is transforming me to be more and more like Jesus, the God-man. I thank him for his power, because I couldn't change permanently in my own strength. Ask me about those changes. But you certainly have the right to express your opinions.
  
  Marinealways24, God is controlling my subconscious more and more. My subconscious couldn't have enabled me to turn my lust for women, sports-and-TV addiction, and my first 16 years of total unbelief in God into praise for his creative power that set me free from those additions and into his convincing me that the God of the Bible is the true God. My subconscious was affected by the accumulation of my anger and anxiety that I didn't know was there and that God overcame to deliver me from 7 years of depression January 6, 1986, and from 43 years of bitterness toward others and him.
  
  My subconscious couldn't have done those amazing actions and more; it had to be God! That's what I believe. You can believe as you wish.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
How about this- Take RELIGION out of Jesus' work, since he didn't teach religion. Let's see what understanding you get from his teachings?
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  The Learnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that's what I already tried to express.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know, you're the same person from another thread.
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  The Learnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep and I answered you on the other thread. No use continuing the same conversation in two different places :-)
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This I agree with wholeheartedly. I have been saying all along, "Read the words that are written in red". Do not let the preachers,teachers, or theologians convince you of any teachings that contradict those things that Jesus taught.
  If an "interpretation" of those things that one of the disciples said contradicts Jesus's teachings you should re think those things that you think the disciple has said.
  Too many "Christians" are believing in Religion and the interpretations more than the teachings of Christ.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I will go along with that and second it.
  
  John
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, what do you think of the teachings of Moses and the other prophets, who wrote the whole Old Testament? They pointed at the coming of Jesus. What do you think about the writings of Luke (his gospel and Acts), Paul, Peter, and John, who all explained the meaning of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, re-entry to heaven, and his Second Coming? I believe that God revealed himself through all of them. What do you think, and why? Just curious.
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I shall just comment on this as well.
  
  Yeah, it's true, the religion can be removed from Jesus and it'd still make sense as a set of ethical teachings.
  
  Ahh, the joys of still being a school student and studying philosophy
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
...still parring in the NTK it seems.
the infinite loop of something so obvious, it apparently escapes human logic/sensation.

ps, for the first time, i might actually agree -to a minute degree- with Mark & Cags. We already 'know' that any consideration of said belief systems (religious based/discovery based) are parasitic and parallel.

is it possible, conceivable that the few or many within these halls of "for umm", might actually (gasp!) step beyond the conjecture, self-absolution, deniable, rusted defense mechanisms, enigmatic implicating, deflect-reflect, finger pointing and (most definitely) a hackneyed recording of the Need To Know and actually understand?

one wonders...
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
aguasilver --

Pardon the interruption. I know we don't agree on many religious ideas but I have to say I've always loved these words attributed to and about Jesus:

"'For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'

Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison and visit you?'

And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'"

(That's the NIV Bible version.)

Just wanted to say thanks for mentioning them earlier. For whatever reason they always touch me deeply.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just got back in.... thanks!
  
  They are our 'rhema' verses for the body I work in.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So when you dare atheists to deny the holy spirit and claim that jesus is coming back soon and the non-believers will be left behind when jesus takes the believers and deals with the ills of the world that are caused by non-believers and selfish atheists - you do not really mean it?
  
  Loving the hypocrisy, John.
  
  Thanks for reminding me - once again - why I do not subscribe to your religion. in fact - this is why people despise your religion.
  
  You cannot with one breath claim that all are equal and anyone who has done good deeds is as good as any believer - and with the next breath claim that all unbelievers are damned and work without faith is useless.
  
  Come Soon Lord Jesus !!!
  
  Not buying the tolerant attitude after the accusations, winding up and fighting. Oh no. Too late.
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Susana Sposted 15 years ago
I think Christianity makes sense if you really listen to what Jesus said (as Cagsil points out), in my opinion most people seem to miss his most important messages. It doesn't make any sense at all if you try to take the bible as a literal document. I don't believe it was ever intended to be taken literally.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When we read the Book of Daniel; and understand that Gabriel interpreted the visions and that we are NOT to interpret them again, we will understand these prophesies to be saying totally diffrent than is being taught.
  When we read those words that Jesus taught and understand them to mean exactly what he is saying we understand prophesy to be saying something totally diffrent than what is being taught. We arrive at a diffrent ball park
  I have been "interpreting" prophesy for almost ten years
  I had published a book about this four years ago ... BUT..
  people call this ..."JUST YOUR INTERPRETATION"
  People love their "INTERPRETATIONS"
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  Susana Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand what you're trying to say?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry for the laps of time in replying.. had to go out.
  
  Religion is interpretation of those prophesy that is written in the Book of Daniel as being futuristic; when in fact it is clearly stated that these prophesy are concerning those first four kingdoms to have dominion over that Hebrew Nation that these prophesy was given to.
  When this fact is accepted we then see the teachings of Jesus Christ in a diffrent light.
  We can then see that those things that Jesus prophesied in Matt. 24 was also speaking to that Hebrew Nation that he was speaking to.
  Not some generation almost 2000 years later.
  
  For he said; "Verily I say unto "YOU" this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled but no one knows the DAY AND HOUR.
  
  Jesus also told John; "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants, Things Must SHORTLY COME TO PASS .... For the time is at hand!!!
  
  We either believe the things that he said or we don't.
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scheinandrasposted 15 years ago
I think christianity does not make sense and it does not have to make sense. Since Godel(the mathematitian) we know that no such thing as perfect system exists.
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theirishobserver.posted 15 years ago
There is nothing wrong with Christianity it is simply spoiled by those who use and abuse it to suit their own narrow interests......like stealing children etc etc
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And those that want to abuse it will interpret it to suit their own goals, Those that wanted to abuse it have been doing this for centuries
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
if you look in the books called New Testament, you will see that Y`shua only is seen 'reading' or 'mentioning' written documentation/script/scripture few times.

Most Notable:

1. read from the book of Isaiah:
(only read a portion of it, closed the book and sat down)
2. being tempted:
(scripture used to try and convince him to accept less; same Adamic tempting) -btw that fallen being also can quote the law front/back/up/down/sideways/right-left/left-right, word for word, line for line, probably better than most people...

He constantly stated: the law had been fulfilled in their hearing.
Why the need then to keep reading?
Hear the word then do it, right?
How many times should one read the how-to build a house for dummies book, yet still not build a house. Seems silly, yes?

In addition, regarding enigma (prophecy) He fulfilled all prophecy: Daniel, Micah, Isaiah, Malachi, etc etc etc)
The old is full, please, stop trying to fill it more.
What is full is full, complete, complete.

consciousness of sin is law.
consciousness of death is prophecy.
both have their reward.

righteousness is understanding, beyond them both.
Grace, by that measure of faith, given to you all:'christian' or not, believing or unbelieving. He is not a respecter of persons.
He is all in all, through all, with all.

ps, good afternoon.
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Hokeyposted 15 years ago
This is why I prefer spirituality to organized religion. Religion creates us and them. When it should be, Your way of understanding works for you and Mine works for me.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When we take the religion out from the teachings of Christ what is left?
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I would be willing to bet ya that if "one of those people" were to walk through a time warp; it wouldn't take long to teach them to drive a car, do what we are doing on the computer etc.
I don't think that they were any more stupid than we are. Less educated? YES. We have not evolved from where they were.
We have been exposed to more opportunities to learn. That is all.
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Marliza Gunterposted 15 years ago
FOR THOSE WHO KNOW GOD...EVERYTHING IS MADE EASY TO UNDERSTAND...ITS CALLED WISDOM...GOD IS SPIRIT..THE CARNAL MIND IS TOOOOO MORTAL TO UNDERSTAND IMMORTAL MIND...IT MEANS..YOU LIVE..YOU DIE..BEFORE GOD EVEN NOTICED YOU WERE ON HIS PLANET..YOU'RE GONE ALREADY...
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
no religion makes sense!
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scentualhealingposted 15 years ago
If you actually participate and study and read the bible
and not boast or gossip about what you think you know or do not actually know about Christianity, you prove nothing nor add to the conversation.

Dont forget when you point your finger you have four more pointing back at you.

**Christianity explained as simply as possible so that you might understand its real meaning.

Jesus wants all of his followers to be known for their love of one another more than he wants us to be know for doctrinal beliefs. "Your strong love for each other-not doctrinal beliefs- is our greatest witness to the world. Your strong love for each other will prove to the world that you are my disciples.."

It goes on to say that "love is not a good part of your life;its the most important part of your life. Let love be your greatest aim. Relationships must take priority in your life above all else."

"No matter what I say, what I do and what I believe, Im bankrupt without love."

True fellowship-in serving, sharing, studying, sympathetic, kind, caring, sharing, lending a helping hand, allowing for other peoples differences, faults or seeming inefficiencies, humbleness and gentleness.

Sharing in their suffering where we enter into each others pain and help to carry their burdens is the deepest most intense level of love.

"These three things continue forever: faith, hope, love. And love is the greatest of these all."

These are all quotes from the bible, above.

4 out of the 10 commandments deal with our love relationship to God.

6 out of the 10 commandments deal with our love relationships to people.

All 10 commandments deal with love relationships.

Love will last forever, not acquiring things or achievements.

Love leaves a legacy. Its not what you do for someone that matters but how much love you put into it that matters.

When someone is on their deathbed and they are taking their last breath, no one has ever said,"Bring me my gold watch, bring me my diplomas, show me my rewards and medals."

When life on earth is ending, people do not want to be surrounded by objects. What we want is people-people we love and have relationships with.

Do not wait until you are on your deathbed to figure that out.

Last quote:

When we are sitting being judged, we will be judged by how much we loved other people and God. "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to the least of my followers, you did it to me."

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

peace
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Believing in him and having relationship with him is an entirely diffrent thang than in believing in a denominational belief of him.
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brotheryochananposted 15 years ago
Christianity is like astrology or fishing or whatever a person chooses to do. You take a look at astrology for example and you get a book on whats what up there and then you buy a little telescope and you can see how green venus is in the morning and the pot holes on the moon. Then you get a bigger telescope and you can see the rings of saturn and then you get a book and you discover there are many many galaxies out there and gas clouds and before you know it, astrology is what you talk about all the time, you delight in others that do astrology, your knowledge increases and you are happy about that... in short you discover a world out there, a big world and you realise that you could easily spend the rest of your life doing astrology.
This is the way it is with christianity. A person soon finds out there is this great big world of knowledge and wonder and promises and love and providence, etc that it consumes them, overpowers them and before you know it, they are christian. The other difference is: that people don't have much to say about christianity and/or don't 'do' christianity, havent opened a bible in over a decade if ever, is that they all know what every christian should be doing during any stage of christian growth or struggle and they all know how to interpret the bible, because they are never wrong and they have all the answers and the christian studying the word of god (with his/her nose in the book daily!) has no idea what they are doing or what they talking about.
I hope this is clear to all you smart alecs out there who think you know it all and boast (quietly to yourselves) that you could do a better job because all christians are just weak, poor, manipulated, pathetic, crawly bugs that would be better off if they were never born. Your two sentence put downs and public jeerings really just make christians either laugh because gods love is not perfected in them yet or feel sad because gods love is perfected in them. Christians will have the, pardon the expression, last laugh, so while we are up on our crosses in this life, denying all we know and doing the opposite to what you follow so hastily, our flesh and while your limited carnal minds think about penises and sex organs and money and revenge to mention a few, we christians will be thinking about the wonderful attributes of a God who loved us first and without our asking gave (freely) his only begotten son that whosoever should believe on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it lol.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If your Christian belief is so mixed up as your notion of astronomy, calling it astrology, you can put it in your crack pipe and smoke it LOLOL!!
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  *cough cough cough*
  
  That didn't taste very good at all. Damn near choked on it.
  
  *cough*
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow.
  
  Let's get down to it. Jesus was not a Christian. Paul was. And it was Paul who taught that Jesus was the Resurrected God of the Universe. By believing in His resurrection, one would inherit eternal life.
  
  Seems simple on the surface. But there is much underneath that is quite sinister. For one thing, the very idea that a hell awaits more than 90% of the human race runs counter to common sense. And for what? Being bad people? No. For being unbelievers! The good Hindu, the good Muslim, the good Buddhist, the good atheist, the good Native American, African, Indonesian, Mexican, Inuit, and aborigine are all doomed because of their so-called disbelief. And it isn't even really disbelief. If there is something you have no idea about, it cannot be said that you don't believe in it. It simply doesn't cross your mind. That's what makes the idea of believing in Jesus as the only salvation such a farce.
  
  It never has anything to do with right and wrong or even with relationship. Only with disbelief.
  
  By the way, the Elect were preordained before the foundation of the world. Even some believers are not part of the Elect. That might include you! Humility is the watch word here. No one knows for certain that they are saved, no matter what your minister tells you.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  correction, if i may: Saul was a former Tor`ah/Talmud scribe turned zealot & Roman citizen, not a christian. The title was coughed up by pagans to identify believers.
  
  good works cannot restore anyone to grace.
  If this were the case, Mosaic Law would be totality and 'Christianity' would not exist, nor many countless other ritual belief systems, including science.
  
  just splitting hairs. jeje.
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just to stay clear of semantics, you are right. Paul did not call himself a Christian. But he did spread the message of salvation through the belief in the resurrection of Jesus.
  
  As far as good works are concerned, Luther was big on the concept of being saved by grace rather than works. It led to Calvin's (unnerving) doctrine of predestination. You are, if elected, irresistibly drawn by grace. And not all who call upon the Name shall be saved; only the few. Works do not count.
  
  One hundred thirty plus verses in the NT back up Calvin's claims. His nemesis, Arminius (who held to the doctrine of free will and the salvation of all who call) only found a few more than 20 verses to uphold his position. Calvin stood firm. The Reformed Church remained Calvinistic right into early America. Some still hold to it today.
  
  One can balk at the idea of predestination. But it is totally biblical, if not diabolical.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  agreed
  
  we were/are predestined.
  many assume it implies genetic-spirit selection v. free will.
  but that is not the case.
  the predestination is/was the desire of the Creator to restore humanity to Grace {that place Adam was}.
  
  agreed also, not all humanity will enter that grace - but by choice, not 'super-natural' manipulation.
  all were saved because of Y`shua fulfillment of the agreement/covenant. Rejecting of that gift {ironically} denies one access to it and the blessings therein.
  
  This is precisely why 'religion' is failing and the teaching of Y`shua diluted into minimalistic ideologies.
  
  ps, its nice to 'meet you'.
  
  James
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I will settle for a belly laugh myself!
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quicksandposted 15 years ago
Religions do make sense when you weed out the nonsense embedded within.

Aw! C'mon don't say you'll be left with nothing!
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Jesusjohn78posted 15 years ago
Nothing defines humans better than their willingness to do irrational things in the pursuit of phenomenally unlikely payoffs. This is the principle behind lotteries, dating, and religion.
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scentualhealingposted 15 years ago
the question wasnt do you believe
it Christianity doesnt make snese who agrees.

I was making sense of it, explaining it
and yes having a relationship with anyone
is believeing in them
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  zahra omerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  can somebody please explain the concept of trinity,it makes absolutely no sense at all!!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  simple:
  
  trinity is likened an atom:
  
  projective, absorptive, reflective.
  proton, neutron, electron
  
  rhema, imrah, logos.
  
  'my word shall not return empty, but accomplish/manifest what I desire, and prosper in the thing for which I have sent them.'
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aka-djposted 15 years ago
If rules are what you see, you have MISSED the whole message of "Christianity".
1st, it's NOT a religion.
2nd it's salvation/life by GRACE, not obeying RULES.

And yes, you break one you break all of them. We are by nature law/rule breakers. That's why it's by GRACE, because you(we) can't keep rules.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So if it's not about rules, what are the ten commandments for ?
  
  And the different churches'statutes ?
  
  And even if you don't like it, Christianity is a religion.
  Saying it's not, it's like saying Islam or Judaism, isn't
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  aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  1 The ten commandments were there to prove we can't keep them!
  2 Church statutes are just that..church statutes. They don't "get you into Heaven".
  3 Just how exactly does me receiving Jesus Christ as my (personal) Saviour make this a "religion"?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know about your personal beliefs, but Christianity is a religion.
  go to the dictionary.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  here's a definition
  
  Christianity, Christian religion
  a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior
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  aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That definition does not accurately describe my "relationship" with Jesus.
  If you want to use that definition, by all means use it. So, according to the definition, you are right.
  An analogy might be something like this...
  "I know George Bush pesronally (which, btw I don't)...does that mean I am a polititian? Or a member of (whatever) political party he's with?
  If you said, "no", you will be correct.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Morning "Ms T"
  Hope the world is wakeing up to a happy Tantrum.
  
  I don't think that Believing is suposed to be a religion.
  
  It is kinda like Making Love. Ya might say that Making Love is having Sex and it might be? But is having Sex necessarily Making LOVE ?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But here they were talking about Christianity. And Christianity is a religion.
  Believing can be a lot of different things, I agree, but Christianity is another matter.
  
  hi jerami !
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is... and no it aint...
  
  Kinda like a bunch of grapes layed out in the sun..
  This morning they are just a bunch of grapes...
  
  Go back out there about noon and some of um will have become raisens and the rest of um are still grapes.
  
  Maybe I need more coffee ??? .. before I try to talk ..
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I love it when believers claim their religions aren't religions at all, but something completely different.
  
  Cult is a much more defined label, anyways.
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, you're right. Christianity is a group of religious groups, each claiming Truth for itself. Buddhism is not a religion but several groups of philosophies. The difference? Buddhist groups don't try to stamp the others out. Christians have been known to do that over the centuries. You know I'm right, don't you?? Inquisitions and witch trials and such. My, my. Truth can be tough.
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A foreign exchange student who came to my school from Thailand informed me that many do in fact pray to the Buddha. It was a philosophy, but like it or not, the Buddha is worshiped.
  
  Does that turn Buddhism into a religion?
  
  Just slightly-related food for thought.
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You make a good point. Yes, there are those who pray to the Buddha. Much like some Catholics pray to Mary or to other saints. But those actions are not taught in either Buddhist or Christian writings. They are chosen practices. Buddhism holds to no particular god. But some groups within Buddhism create all kinds of gods and spirits and jins and such.
  
  Jehovah told his followers to have no other gods. He of course was referring to the pagan gods that many Jews were falling prey to. Buddha said to take what resonates and discard the rest. He left your path open to you. What you do with your walk is your choice.
  
  Looking to the outside for a god is not necessarily a good idea. It almost always leads to religion!
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  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe praying to the Buddha would be like, in an alternate reality of Christianity, asking the original teacher of ways for guidance in following the path instead of worship. Looking for teaching from a teacher instead of favor from a deity. Tumbling that around in my mind.
  
  I do agree that Buddhism was created to be and is widely practiced as a philosophy, not a religion.
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  RichardSpeaksposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What you just wrote is what the Buddha might have suggested. He was recorded as having said (paraphrased), "Don't look to anyone else, not even me, to show you the way to Awakening. You have all you need within yourself to attain the highest levels." But he also knew that, without saying that, many would not know to do that. Paradox? Who knows?
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
Whatever !
Dictionaries say it is.
Christians all over the world say it is.

Have a nice Sunday !
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lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago
Regardless of our beliefs in anything, to put down someone else, whether you agree or not, is demeaning and certainly uncalled for.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity puts down and demeans me. It is uncalled for, then?
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
spot on!
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prayzpoetessposted 15 years ago
HEBREWS 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

It baffles my mind that people always have disparaging words to say about Christianity. have you ever tried it? When Jesus came to settle the debts of man, He was scorned; He still is.

I am a proud Christian. I make no excuses for my beliefs; as I suppose you don't for your disbelief. My worry for you and other unbelievers is that you will spend your lives doubting Christianity and not take the time to try it. Though I have not always been saved, I have always believed in a higher power; I call Him God.

As you know, everyone has the freedom of choice. Having the freedom of choice comes with responsibilities; we will be held accountable for our decisions. Your belief or unbelief does not change the facts. If you do not choose, the choice is made for you. That is to say that in not choosing Jesus, you have chosen Satan.

You see, you will never figure everything out; we are not supposed to. Christianity makes perfect sense to me even though I don't have all the answers. I know what I need to know and I will look to the Father and His Word to enlighten me further.

As the above scripture says, If we had all the answers we wouldn't need to have faith. We are not God; we don't and never will know all the answers until Jesus' return. I pray that you will soon gain the will to try Jesus...God bless you.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL - So - you don't have an answers, but you think I have chosen Satan, and you think you are enlightened, but do not understand why I disparage your ridiculous belief system.
  
  But - in any case - we are not supposed to figure anything out - just jump on the Jeebus bandwagon to be saved?
  
  Wow.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you tried Islam, Judaism, Voodoo or any other religion yourself, Mrs. Pot?
  
  Then, there are no choices if the you only have one choice to make. That's like saying you have two choices, live or jump off this cliff and die horribly. Duh.
  
  We were given brains to think but Christianity says not to use them and remain ignorant. That certainly explains a lot.
  
  If you don't use your brains to think, then you have no idea what makes sense and what does not.
  
  If we didn't have faith in religions, we would pursue answers.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
"the choice is made for you. That is to say that in not choosing Jesus, you have chosen Satan."

Please don't tell me which invisible fairy I have chosen, it is insulting!
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  lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ditto on that bullshit.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lyrics, yer everywhere tonight! I have had fun reading you on other threads I frequent. The assumptive belief that I gotta have me own fairy bothers me!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
prayzpoetess is baffled apparently!
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
@ (Q) I am curious ...
What is your definition of Christianity?
Does "everyone" that believes in Jesus fall under your definition of Christianity?
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have no personal definitions of Christianity, Jerami.
  
  No, everyone who claims to be Christian falls under that definition. It's just that easy.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then it is not only myself that does not see the point.
  
  Is there only one kind of fish in the river.
  Is there only one kind of red meat.
  One type of tree
  I hate thorn trees and sweet gum trees
  Oak trees are great. Pine trees are only good for lumber and not so good for landscapeing.
  I love tomatos but do not like tomato juice.
  
  I knew an atheist once that was Married; are all Atheist married?
  I knew an Atheist once that was a burgler; Are all Atheists burglers.
  Of course NOT.
  Some "Christians have tunnel vision
  Some "Atheists" have tunnel vision.
  Tunnel vision is a choice that none of us have to make.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Jerami, the bible is the only thing at the end of the tunnel. The world outside of that tunnel awaits you. Embrace it.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be showing sighns of that handicap as well.
  You see labels on everyone and can not see past them.
  With all of these labels; they only come in two colors.
  Bright white for those that think just as you do; and dull brown for everyone else. That way you do not have to bother to read what the tags say,
  You imediately know.
  
  Gotta go; be back later.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have no idea what you're talking about.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you have no idea of what I am talking about. it is because you can not remember what you have said while listening to the things that anyone else is saying simultaniously.
  I wish you luck with your tunnel vision.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No Jerami, I just don't speak or understand gibberish.
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samboiamposted 15 years ago
I am not here to persuade anyone to change their belief system. If you do not see the sense in religion that is your perogative. However, I do find some of the arguments for not attending church to be quite humorous.

There are two main reason which causes religion to be looked down on

1. When I go to church they always ask for money.
2. The church is full of hypocrites.

It seems that church is the only place that these two things are not acceptable. If we applied this reasoning to every area of our lives Wal-Mart would go broke.

I have never seen anyone refuse to go to a resteraunt because it had to many hypocrites and they always ask for money.

How about sporting events? The player you talked trash about all week you cheer when he makes a good play. How hypocritical is that? By the way the Cowboys always ask for your money.

So if hypocrites and the expectation of money keeps you away from church what elso should it keep you from?
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are dozens of reasons, some of which do not start from the assertion that gods exist, some have to do with religions abysmal past track record, some have to do with human rights violations, some have to do with hatred, oppression, bigotry, indoctrination, child abuse, violence and a host of other malicious practices religion has offered us.
  
  If it were as simple as you've laid out before us, there wouldn't be a problem.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q, I understand your reasons. I would suggest that you find an up-to-date translation of the Bible (for example, NIV). If you haven't read it from cover-to-cover, you might do it to discover whether God's claims about himself and the main beliefs of the Christian church are consistent. Then, I would suggest that you attend a Bible-discussion group attached to a Bible-believing church to check out some Christians who don't fit your stereotype of Christians or the church. Then, if you still reject the Bible's teachings, you've come to understand them better. Try it, you might like it. We can write together in a few days.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you ever listen to yourself? Or read your own post?
  
  Just curious.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be a monumental waste of my time because all that would happen is that I would hear more people tell me about their beliefs. Of course, there are hundreds if not thousands of religious groups prepared to do exactly the same thing, and they would all profess their beliefs are the correct ones with every fiber of their being, just like any other believer.
  
  But, it is interesting that you would expect I would actually start to believe in a gods existence simply by hearing more people talk about it.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Sam, hysterical, and so right!
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
thanks for the responces but I gotta go do an estimate
or I don't work. later
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Here is some more biblical love from jesus's dad.

The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

So much love!
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  h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ughhh not again
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you would love to hear from your god!
  
  Don't you believe in "The word?"
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  brotheryochananposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  more snot flinging from ear nest. I wish god had a law that all hubbers not having valuable or edifying information to convey would drop dead, then all the christians posting bible stuff wouldn't have to wade through your snot.
  1) Deu 17:12 These verses have to do with judicial court room sentences. This is equivalent to NOT going to federal court and skipping out or being told to fulfill a federal court edict and the person doesn't. This is quite serious stuff, even today, try missing court and see how long before cops come to the door, guns drawn.
  2) Exodus 22:17-not let a sorcerer live. Sorcery is a selfish practice usually only benefiting the person doing the sorcery, typically for some personal gain or satisfaction. This is what sorcery was about then. I doubt it is much different today. It involved the ritual slaughter of people, animals and in some other less civilized countries sorcerers were terrorists much like we have terrorists today. The information you lack ear nest is that this is EXODUS, after gods removing the people from slavery in egypt and that whole wilderness thing where god even preserved their clothes from rotting. God is removing the bad content from the group to gather a clean group. Sound familiar?
  3) Disobedient to parents - are you a parent? lol
  4) Adultery - I got a word from the lord for you on this one. "I condemned adulterers because i do not wish that any heart be broken through unfaithfulness or any union i put together be ruined by the selfish, lustful, greed of another persons gainsaying desires". To this i say, thanks lord, and i bet every person who found his wife or husband cheating would love to shake your hand on this point of your LOVE.
  4) Fornication - lol ear nest how selfish can u be to not understand this one. I can answer this and your she-bear slaughtering children from 2 kings 2:23,24 The children who came out of the woods were bastard children who ran away from their parent or were cast out of the house, sort of a modern day homeless or vagabond person. These kids would live in groups, outside the camp or wherever and prey on passersby for sustenance and quick gain. A bad robin hood scenario. Fornication back then was more serious than nowadays. There was no abortion, no orphanage, virginity was appreciated by both men and women, etc.. Today the world is overpopulated and here in canada the amount of single mothers is amazing, hows the numbers in the states? I wonder how disease would have been treated back then.. aids, herpes, etc.. pandemics no doubt without a cure.
  5) 2 chr 15:12,13 this was a purifying of the tribe of israel. Perhaps the reason you are a practicing non-believer is that you do not how to read the bible. context, context, context.. this is usually found by reading the verses before and after the verses you choose to chop and hack at your own pleasure. God had just done a thing and now he wanted all the disbelievers that have taken up residence in cities and captured whole cities under the corrupt rule of ahab and jezebeel two of the worst rulers ever, to be routed out so the country that israel was occupying would be purified of non-believers who worshipped false gods.. this worship was usually done by burning people alive, god chose man to cook his food and offer a portion of that back to god... brilliant god.
  6) zech 13:3 again ear nest, context, context, context. vs 1 the fount that will be opened is jesus christ, so this book of prophecy points forward as all books of prophecy do. Now during the time before christ god caused a period of 400yrs, starting right after malachi which is the book right after zechariah, pretty close to the margin eh. These are called the 'silent years' or the 'uninspired years' when there was no 'word of god' to his people at all, god closed the door on prophesy.. so when the scrip you quote says 'kill the prophet' that is god saying, the prophet shall be a lying prophet. Yawn ear nest.. must you always have nothing of value to say, the door you want is down the hall, next to the "braying donkeys welcomed here", across from "dumb people who shoot their mouths off about what they know absolutely nothing about"... yah.. the door u want is "im a dumbass and im okay but millions of biblers need help".
  7)deuteronomy You mention deu so many times that i feel i should give you the jist of the book instead of go through all the points that you are off the mark on. This book is after exodus where god did mighty things throughout the desert, signs and wonders galore!!!!! He established his laws during the 40yrs. Now the whole of israel sits on the border waiting to go up into the land of milk and honey, which is an idiom for fertile land. Joshua will recieve the leadership and moses will soon die a natural death. deuteronomy means "repetition of the law". so before gods people cross the border they receive, again, instructions in the law. This fertile land is a representation, at this time, of gods people entering heaven from the (desert) earth. Now god requires virgins which is an idiom for people undefiled with worldly cares, god requires a dedicated people, no sorcery, idolatry etc.. god requires people that love him, for as men and women do when they love somebody the do what the other enjoys even if they don't like it themselves, hence gods laws are not burdensome but a yoke that is easy to bear.
  -----------------------and so in closing----------------------
  
  1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
  1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted
  1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
  and to end quickly
  1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
  1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
  
  Yes i believe in "the word" and the word is LOVE. Obviously this is a time of gods grace and forgiveness of sin and i have proof of this
  
  "will you not be here tomorrow to fling more of your nose snot around the bible forum?"
  ------------------- and to really close this time lol-----------------------
  2 sam 6:3-7 the steadying of the ark.. God specifically said "do not ever touch the ark and that god would deliver the ark". but what did a man do? not believe gods word that god would steady the ark. God is so serious about what he wants people to do I would rather die than post posts as you do. I bet your life sucks and you want other lives to suck also.
  So i will finish up here. I could write heaps more just about examples of god love in the old testament alone, the new testament totally shouts gods love in amazing ways, healings, god giving his son to redeem us of our sins and offer us a way back to the garden, the lack of judgment of the woman caught in adultery, did you forget this one ear nest?
  it goes like this:
  John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
  John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
  John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
  John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
  John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
  John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
  Jesus could have thrown a stone at her... how come u throw stones at jesus earnest?
  I'd like to read a hub "earnest comes clean about his experience with God".
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True, those Christians would be dead.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very, very well done! I bow to your greatness!
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h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago
The crazy bit is claiming to be a christian without religion, now that is just weird!
Where did you hear about jc if you are not into the "good book"

I don't think it is crazy. There are many things that have been convoluted and been made something else. I think medical science is amazing, but there are lousy practioners. I think an idea can also be morphed into something completely different when the original context is interpreted differntly. Every day we use discernment. Holly
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
i suspect that somewhere buried deep in some secret underground cavern under a thousand layers of rock in a sealed chest is the actual 'Word of God'. the Bible these verses come from was written by ancient Man to scare people into being good, and does the 'real God' a huge diservice, unfortunately.
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  Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you say that the Bible was written to scare people? You can say that possibly about the Qur'an, because every other or third page threatens hell for non-Muslims. However, taking the whole Bible, the overriding theme of the Bible is God's rescue of his rebellious humans through Jesus Christ, the God-man, who lived perfectly, died in our place to take believers' judgment on himself, and rose to give them new life and a way to our Creator. He is the 3-in-1 God who is mysterious yet revealed and who wants to bring us into his adopted family.
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Dalyinxposted 15 years ago
I think some of the dogmas are silly, but I have no real opinion on the actual religion.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have!
  http://hubpages.com/hub/The-biblical-go … psychopath
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  brotheryochananposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the pharisees read the bible, in fact they knew it inside out and created 100 of new rules to help keep gods commandments, but what they saw is the same thing earnest sees, cruelty, violence, crimes against mankind. Jesus read the bible, in fact the only bible, torah, then he showed them the father, he showed the love that is in the OT. Even Gods plan to present jesus christ (christ is prophesied in the OT!!) on the planet to proclaim the gospel that christ did proclaim, to set people free of their misinterpretations. God planned it through gods love.
  Gods people now live in paradise, those who follow gods ways live free of addictions, greeds, covetness, idolatry (which is a big waste of time) and we await more life after death..
  
  i perceive the cup to be totally full and others see the cup as empty.
  The truth is, its totally full!!! all the time lol.
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  msngr321posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said brotheryochanan
  God's Word says heaven is full and HELL is never full;
  The answer to all this nonsence I've read here will be quite evident one second after we close our eyes to this life to enter the next.
  
  The nonsence spouters will have a big surprise.
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valeriebelewposted 15 years ago
Gosh Folks, how many of you realize a 14 year old guy started this discussion thread. He probably selected a topic he knew would set people off, then sat back and laughed till his sides hurt. Some kids torture cats, others bully smaller kids, but this guy was able to get some laughs simply by getting groups of adults all steamed up, and he didn't have to actually hurt animals or humans. LOL. He'll probably be the next president. LOL.
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