Do you believe sex offenders can change and should they be forgiven?

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  1. steve-bc-ca profile image77
    steve-bc-caposted 13 years ago

    I met my share of rapist and child sex offenders in jail. Even though many of them committed these crimes before I was born and they now seem very remorseful, it is almost impossible to look at them any other way. I have a hard time believing that someone who can commit violent sex crimes can truly be sorry for what they've done.

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Anyone can change.
      But how many do?
      Forgiven?  Yes, if they're remorseful.  But released back into society's full freedom?  No, not without very strict rules and lots of accountability/monitoring.  Which is proven, I think, by the fact that we do already have a strict system of dealing with those cases.

      1. Dave Barnett profile image58
        Dave Barnettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Would you bet their "change" with your child? Someone else's? Too many repeaters. Next time, they made decide to make sure there's no witness. Then you bury a child, whose last moments were in terror.

        1. profile image53
          Clementheartposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          There are less than 5% repeat offenders among all the sex offenders out there.
          Fewer sex offenders re-offend than any other crime category.  Yet you do not raise a stink about murderers or wife beaters. Get the facts before you make stupid comments.

      2. donotfear profile image85
        donotfearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I tend to agree with this view. Well said. Though the system does fail us. I would hope they would never be allowed around children again.

        1. heleineoman profile image59
          heleineomanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          yeah, violence repeat itself.

    2. Stevennix2001 profile image82
      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      it truly depends on the person.  as a person can only change if they truly want to change.  heck, i became friends with guys in my life that used to be mass murders, drug dealers and car thieves when I used to work as a busboy, after graduating high school.  yet those guys were surprisingly some of the nicest and honest guys, I've ever met.  Sure, they'll admit they made a lot of mistakes in life, but deep down I could tell they weren't really bad guys.  Just individuals that made horrible mistakes that caused them to reevaluate their lives.  No, they were good people, but the lazy teenage high schoolers I worked with...they were a different story...

      1. luvpassion profile image63
        luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Mass Murders as busboys? hmm

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image82
          Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          ex mass murders.  guys that were released from prison on probation.  that's what i meant.  sorry.  should've been more specific.

        2. profile image0
          Kerianneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If you remove the penis and the testicles and make girls out of sex offenders, they will know what it feels like to be a girl and be sexually overpowered and abused by a man.

      2. Disturbia profile image61
        Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I'm going to tell you I can more easily believe that murders, drug dealers, etc. can change than child sex offenders.  They prey on children for a reason.

        1. luvpassion profile image63
          luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Is there any country that executes child sex offenders? Send em there. wink

    3. profile image0
      cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      i believe anyone is capable of true remorse for their actions. but repeat offenders, especially those who prey on children, i think they see their victims in the same way other people see candy and they have to fight their depraved urges. they may even be remorseful but still make a conscious choice to commit the crime, so they don't deserve forgiveness or our trust.

      but if a person is truly remorseful and has served their time and works hard to live a good life and be a good citizen, then they should be forgiven by society. it is not for me to tell the victims to forgive.

      1. profile image51
        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I agree with you.

    4. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
      LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this


      I agree with Brenda......forgiven yes, given free liberty in society, no...
      Unfortunately, or fortunately some crimes result in the lost of your USA liberties. Convicted  felons are forever marked by limitations. It is what it is. Even with the limitations, they can live a successful life.....

      Everything we do leaves a residue on society, both the good and the bad. And, no matter how remorseful you are the stain of your decision remains.

    5. originaltw profile image61
      originaltwposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      i beleive that is very true

      1. profile image0
        Kerianneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        If the male penis and testicles can be taken off and "prison girls" can be made from male sex offenders, they will know what it feels like to be be sexually overpowered and abused by a man as I did as a homosexual in prison.

    6. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      any time the sex offender has compleated the crime, you will find that they are sincerly sorry for the actions, but they are so addicted they repeate it.

      I say by all means forgive, but hold reserve and insist on a long hard battle through re-hab. I have seen it and it is a hard thing for them to honestly overcome. 

      Forgive with caution and prudence to attention of their actions and behaviors. help where you can, be stern as you must.. Its a long process to the cure.

      1. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
        LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I agree Dutchman1951

    7. ceciliabeltran profile image66
      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      i think they're sorry. but, i also think that most of the time they can't help themselves. Nobody decides to become a sex offender, they just don't control their urges. However people can decide not to be a sex offender even if they have the instinct to do so.  So yes, a sex offender can choose not to put himself in a situation where he will offend again...but it is rare.

    8. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Forgiveness is personal.   It involves t he wrongdoer and the wronged.   I can't forgive a murderer who killed someone I don't know.    The same is true of basically almost any crime you'll find people in jail for.   There are crimes against the country, but right now, best to not try to mix that in. 

      Sex offenders CAN and DO go on to live lives that are not hurting others.   But it's the lowes level of rehabilitation and highest level of recividism.   How I treat a sex offender is, however, unrelated to how society and government should.   The purpose of government is to protect the people, and as such, should isolate sex offenders and certain other criminals from society until such time as it is absolutely beyond doubt that they are not a danger to anyone else.   

      I'll freely admit that's one heck of a difficult standard to reach.   But government is not charged with being forgiving and "nice",  its purpose is to defend the freedoms and liberties of the individual, and that's by far its single most important task.   

      Which summarized means that personally, I have to view all who will confess and ask for forgiveness as just a brother or sister in Christ, in terms of my relationship to them.   But in terms of what I think government policy is, the point is to not take chances, and to defend the people from known dangers.

      1. profile image53
        Clementheartposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        A 2002 study by the United States Department of Justice indicated that recidivism rates among sex offenders was 5.3 percent; that is, about 1 in 19 of released sex offenders were later arrested for another sex crime. The same study mentioned that 68 percent of released non-sex offenders were rearrested for any crime.
        According to the Office of Justice Programs (OJP) of the United States Department of Justice,[5] in New York State, the recidivism rate for sex offenders has been shown to be lower than any other crime except murder. Another report from the OJP which studied the recidivism of prisoners released in 1994 in 15 states (accounting for two-thirds of all prisoners released in the United States that year)[6] reached the same conclusion.
        In 2007 the State Bureau of Investigation in North Carolina made significant changes to its sex-offender registration system, including new search criteria that include an "offender status" search (enabling an explicit search for convicted sex-offense recidivists in the sex-offender database). Manual searches (by county) using the new criteria yield some of the lowest recidivism rates ever disseminated by any law-enforcement establishment. In the entire state of North Carolina there are only 71 recidivists shown on the registry, if incarcerated offenders are included. Per-county results for "registered"-status offenders (compared with "recidivist"-status offenders) on the North Carolina registry yield actual convicted recidivist percentages ranging from zero to a fraction of one percent.[7]

    9. pylos26 profile image72
      pylos26posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can one erase the stripes off a zebra...duhhh.

      1. profile image51
        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        No, I don't think one could do that.

    10. jeri741 profile image60
      jeri741posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      no I do not believe that t is possble for them to change completely.  believe they would want to change but given the chance or opportunity they would do it again.

    11. Bibowen profile image89
      Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They might be truly sorry, but they should be executed for raping a child. Their level of feeling of remorse is not at issue; the offense is.

      As for forgiveness, God can forgive any sin and if they repent, that's great. But it's not government's job to forgive offenses; it's their job to mete out punishment.

    12. profile image0
      just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think they may be remorseful, but from everything I've read they cannot change their urges. They needed to be kept out of society, for their own sake as well as the children's.

    13. 2besure profile image79
      2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I do not believe sex offenders, particularly child sex offender can change without a frontal lobotomy.  Their brains are wired all wrong.

    14. Beth Godwin profile image70
      Beth Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, they are remorseful because they got caught and are now in jail.  Studies suggest pedophiles cannot be reformed and should not be released to repeat the offence.  It would be the same as letting a dog that has killed children loose in a school yard full of kids.  Stupid idea.  Some sex offenders can be reformed with mental help, but not the pedophile. Many pedophiles express remorse for their crime but admit they should not be released because they could not control their actions. Some states laws allow castration (Florida is one)for repeat offenders, but is usually not considered.

    15. DON BALDERAS profile image69
      DON BALDERASposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Anyone is capable of changing upon realizing that he did something wrong and unacceptable to the society.  But as always, it takes someone who has discernment to say that he can be finally live freely in a community where he committed the offense. It will also take a very accepting community to do it. The danger of having it committed again remains a stigma. And vigilance on the part of the people is necessary.

    16. Freegoldman profile image41
      Freegoldmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      clearly there is a spectrum of this kind of offender. I dont believe a class 3 should ever be released!! They should be branded so as to identify them in public. I would prefer the forehead. When they move into a neighborhood I believe the 2nd amendment should be taken to full advantage by all the neighbors and that made clear to the offender.
      These people are marked when they are indicted. Weather guilty or not. They are labeled for life. In prison they are marked all prisoner hate them and when they get the chance will beat them or kill them. It is a status thing.
      When there out they should be on a tight leash. I would not want them to live near my daughter school. Would also like to know where they live.
      How many of these people are released and do it again and again.

      Murders and thieves they should be treated just the same but usually thieves don't hurt kids. Murders are often crime related. The cold blooded killer that kills for no reason should not come out of prison. I am not talking about somebody in a dispute and one ends up dead. That is kind of an accident!

    17. Raven Hubbard profile image59
      Raven Hubbardposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In child sex offenders there is something that is hardwired wrong, you can chemically castrate them and they'd still go out and commit crimes against children so no I don't think they can be rehabilitated.

      1. profile image0
        jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this


  2. bojanglesk8 profile image60
    bojanglesk8posted 13 years ago

    They can't change. It's just their nature.

    1. Stevennix2001 profile image82
      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      then if they're uncapable of changing, then what do you suggest then? just shoot them?  kill every criminal that goes to jail, as they're uncapable of changing anyway?  is that what your saying? hmm

      1. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
        LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this


        I hope not....nobody would be left.

        It wasn't too many years ago that where the present day State Prison sits use to be a place for public hangings....amazing.

      2. Jerami profile image59
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        For the betterment of society  I think that some offences such as this does need to be dealt with severely and swiftly.

           Even if I were innocent but found guilty of such a crime, I'd rather be put to death than serve a life sentence.
           To me, life in prison is a cruel and unusual punishment.

          And as was mentioned in another post,  Why feed these people forever while there are so many starving to death. Also many die from other causes that a proper diet would have prevented.
          I compare this with weeding the garden.  I am not punishing the weeds when I eliminate them from their immediate environment.  Do I carefully replant them and nurture them for as long as it takes to ensure their survival while neglecting the needs of the vegetables in garden.

           But then I live in Texas,  that might explain a lot.

        1. profile image51
          paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          In such a situation; the society should understand the following verses of Quran, the Word Revealed:

          [24:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
          [24:2] This is a Surah which We have revealed and which We have made obligatory; and We have revealed therein clear Signs, that you may take heed.
          [24:3] The adulteress and the adulterer (or the fornicatress and the fornicator) — flog each one of them with a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain take hold of you in executing the judgment of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.

 … .php?ch=24

          1. Jerami profile image59
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know about all of that ???

               About half a century ago there was a common expression that might be applicable concerning these things???

               "Kill it,  before it grows and multiplies".

               I'm talking about Child molesters for sure.

            Maybe .. in the beginning .. What may have seemed an injustice  possibly could have prevented a gigantic amount injustice?   

               But it is too late now.  It already grew up and multiplied.

          2. lrohner profile image68
            lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            paar--I must say that you and your Quran are pretty much getting on my nerves now. What the h*ll are you talking about with the "adulteress" and "adulterer" stuff in this conversation? Are you saying that the victim of a sexual predator is at fault?

            1. profile image51
              paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              No, the child is not; but the sexual predator is at fault? If he is not a madman he is to suffer for the crime, if the society wants to be safe from him committing the same offence again.

          3. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
            LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            C'mon Paarsurrey,

            Nobody is going to flog anybody...and, like Irohner said we are not even talking about adultery....which is a act of consent.... we are talking about the violent crime of child molestation.....

      3. Disturbia profile image61
        Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Well Steven when it comes to child sex offenders... yeah, put them up against a wall and shoot the ba$tards.  I'd do it myself and not lose a second of sleep over it. My youngest daughter was molested by her uncle, her father's brother, just one of the reasons I left him.  This was especially painful to me as I was also sexually violated when I was living in foster care as a pre-teen.  She was only three years old when I found out about it and it was her older sister who told me about it.  So I feel no pity for these people.  I could care less if they feel remorse.  The damage has been done.  They can be as sorry as they like, but they will never be able to take back what they have done.  No... sorry, they will find no forgiveness here.

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image82
          Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          wow, no wonder why you feel so passionately about this topic. im sorry to hear that happened to you and your daughter.  sad  are you okay?

        2. ceciliabeltran profile image66
          ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I am wondering how a child is put in a situation where he can be molested like this. Molestation is a deep case. If it takes a village to raise a child, it also takes a village to rape one.

          The entire social network is at fault. why are offenders providing foster care. why is there a need for foster care? Why are the children left with people who are risk of molesting them? Where are the caregivers who care?

          Child abuse is a product of a deeper social ill. to stop it, it takes more than punishing the offender. It takes removing the situations where a person would have that need to offend, a mother will have a need to leave her child with other people and lastly an environment where a child will learn to distrust the potential offenders on sight.

        3. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
          LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          How can we help heal your hurt....I am sorry that you have suffered so...

    2. Dave Barnett profile image58
      Dave Barnettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is true, that we all have good and bad, but with some, the bad is VERY bad. The very good don't necessarily qualify for sainthood, either. It can be quite relative.

  3. Shadesbreath profile image81
    Shadesbreathposted 13 years ago

    When we're talking violent and egregious sex crimes, I don't know if they can actually change so much as get some discipline over their predatory urges.  If they can, letting them out seems the merciful thing to do, but the price for being wrong just once I would argue is not worth it. 

    As far as forgiveness goes, I think when an offender has intentionally done that kind of damage to someone else, the offender only deserves forgiveness if the victim can recover enough from the damage to give it.  If not, guilt is the price the offender has to pay (assuming they have a functioning conscience, which in some instances, may not be the case) for the evil deed they did.

    Furthermore, forgiveness is not the same as letting them back into population, but that gets me back to what I said first.

  4. steve-bc-ca profile image77
    steve-bc-caposted 13 years ago

    It looks like the Canadian Governments in bed with them.

    Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than being in the company of a sex-offender. In a ocean front minimum security Canadian Institution sex offenders make up for over half the population. I spent a lot of time with these horrific repeat sex offenders because I had no other choice, or any other choice was a very bad one.
    I don't believe they are capable of change and I don't believe they even deserve the opportunity. Why should we have to pay for their incarceration, which in Canada that cost is ridiculously high in any low security institution, when their are families on our streets going hungry, victims of these offenders.
    Because of Canada's Dangerous Offender Act we can keep these offenders heads covered and belly's full for the rest of their lives. These men are content living in jail, how can we give them this satisfaction and call it punishment. I hate sex offenders about as much as I hate politicians.

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      isn't Canada the headquarters for NAMBLA?

  5. Mighty Mom profile image80
    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    Sex offenders are sort of a different breed than those who commit crimes against (for example) property.
    Rehabilitation rates are extremely low. There's just something twisted in their psyches that they can't overcome the compulsion.

    As many of you have stated, letting child molesters (and serial rapists) out is inviting trouble. Sure, you can "prohibit" them from being within 100 feet of a playground or school. But they'll find ways around it.
    Personally, I think anyone who preys on innocent children -- and this absolutely includes parents or other relatives who commit incest with their kids -- should be locked up and the key thrown away. The damage they do to those kids is immeasurable. Something the children will have to deal with the rest of THEIR lives.

    I don't usually watch Oprah but happened to catch this one. I think it's an interesting solution. Thoughts? … in-America

    1. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
      LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Mighty Mom

      If their phyche is twisted it is because a devil is twisting it while whispering in their ear and moving through their flesh...they need deliverance....I tried not to go there, but I couldn't help myself.

  6. lrohner profile image68
    lrohnerposted 13 years ago

    I think that what we think doesn't matter. Research upon research upon research has proven time and time again that these guys can't/won't change. That's enough for me. I say jail them and keep them there--forever.

    1. Stevennix2001 profile image82
      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      wait a sec.  when you say guys..are you saying ALL guys in general are uncapable of changing?  or just the sexual predators we're talking about?

      1. lrohner profile image68
        lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        LOL! Don't get your panties in a bunch, Stevennix. I meant the people we are talking about -- not all guys. smile

    2. profile image53
      Clementheartposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How about looking at REAL RESEARCH facts instead of making up fiction?
      According to the Office of Justice Programs (OJP) of the United States Department of Justice,[5] in New York State, the recidivism rate for sex offenders has been shown to be lower than any other crime except murder. Another report from the OJP which studied the recidivism of prisoners released in 1994 in 15 states (accounting for two-thirds of all prisoners released in the United States that year)[6] reached the same conclusion.

      Check my other posts for even more recent government research statistics

  7. CkhoffmanK profile image84
    CkhoffmanKposted 13 years ago

    Im with Irohner on this one.

    Lock them up, throw away the key, and let them die.

    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Irohner did not say "throw away the key, and let them die". Did he?

      1. lrohner profile image68
        lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        No, but by saying "lock them up forever," the "let them die" part was pretty much inferred.

        And btw, I'm a "she." smile

  8. kalixao profile image62
    kalixaoposted 13 years ago

    I took a Master's in Forensic Psychology, and sex offenders were a frequent topic. Among offenders, they are the most disturbed and the most incalcitrant (most likely to repeat the offense). They don't want to change at all, because their whole psychological construct of object identification and desire is tied into and constantly reinforces their behaviors. If you can't intervene with them at shockingly young ages, they might conceal or suppress their impulses for a while, but won't overcome them. They have a real lack of boundaries, a real hatred of authority, and a real sense of privilege that empowers them to become predators.

    1. LeslieAdrienne profile image71
      LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's a devil....

  9. steve-bc-ca profile image77
    steve-bc-caposted 13 years ago

    A man who was a very trusted member of my community was charged for 60 accounts of sexual assault and rape against children in our community. A lot of these victims are close friends of mine. I've seen and experienced what these sex crimes can do to someone in the long term. They never quit hurting. This man was convicted of 6 accounts and received a 3 year sentence in which he served 2 years in a quite comfortable jail with all of his sex offender friends. Think he'll do it again? I do! I stabbed a man several times in the head because he assaulted me as a child and I'd do it again. There should be no second chances. No comfy life in jail.
    I like the idea of flogging! I actualy tried that once, literally! I had another man who sexually assaulted me cornered against a brick wall while me and a friend stoned him. It felt great and I think all victims of sex crimes should have this option.

    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for narrating your experience

    2. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Any other persons to comment on it

  10. profile image0
    ralwusposted 13 years ago

    I say give them to the polar bears. Sexual Predators that is.

  11. seamist profile image60
    seamistposted 13 years ago

    I don't think sex offenders every completely change. While they may gain an understanding of how their thinking is wrong and consciously work at committing a sexual crime against the another person, I think their basic sexual drives are still below the surface. However, if they are willing to try to learn to understand how what they did was wrong, are willing to try to change their actions, and are sorry for what they have done in the past, I do think they should be forgiven. However, if they commit the same crime again, it is a different story.

  12. seamist profile image60
    seamistposted 13 years ago

    that should have been consciously work at not commiting a sexual crime again...

  13. steve-bc-ca profile image77
    steve-bc-caposted 13 years ago

    Are you being sarcastic paarsurrey and are you Canadian?

    1. Dave Barnett profile image58
      Dave Barnettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Are you martian, or a hershey candy bar? I beleive that any sex offender's proclivities can be corrected. First, you need a really sharp scalpel. Snip snip. And if idle hands become the devil's workshop, snip snip. Off come the hands. I really hate supporting their butts in prison, and they aren't much liked there, either.

    2. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, I am not .

      I know that Quranic injunctions are not to be implemented in Canada unless approved by the legislature.

      Nevertheless, I want to know the rationality of the injucntions in a Canadian society ( and the West) which  the Creator-God Allah YHWH has mentioned in Quran. He knows the deep phsyche of man.

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Fortunately, we have human rights in Canada, but we also have very stupid politicians, so it could be toss up there. It would most certainly set civilization back many hundreds of years if it was approved.

  14. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago

    Sexual crimes cover a wide range of behaviour and events. These crimes are compounded by the intense emotions involved in sexual behaviour, the distortion that can be caused to an individuals sexual identity by sexual crimes being perpetrated upon them, by the dominant sexual culture and by moral and religious dimensions (O’Mahony.1996). Particularly in the past two decades with the advent of the proliferation of media and in particular new technologies, we are more acutely aware of the many cases of sexual crime coming before the Courts and perhaps in greater number, persons claiming to have been raped and sexually abused when they were children being held in institutions of ‘care’ that were run by the Catholic Church and under the ‘supervision’ of the Irish State, have alerted us to the cruel hurt and pain that can be inflicted on such persons. West (1983) suggests that most children out grow the negative effects of such abuse, however, those victims giving testimony to the Redress Board that was established to give financial compensation to those victims of Religious child rapists would contradict this contention.

    Sexual crime in the IrishRepublic is not something that has simply appeared from no where in the 21st Century, indeed, from the very foundation of the Irish Free State sexual crime and in particular against children was common place. Such was the scale of sexual crime against children that the Irish Government of 1930 was pushed to establish an inquiry to examine the extent of sexual crime in the newly liberated territory. The Carrigan Report[1] was chaired by Mr William Carrigan a retired Senior Council, the evidence presented to Carrigan left the committee in no doubt that child sexual abuse was systematic and wide spread. Carrigan concluded that:

    There was an alarming amount of sexual crime increasing yearly, a feature of which was the large number of cases of criminal interference with girls and children from 16 years downwards, including many cases of children less than 10 years.

    This observation was supported by the Police Commissioner of the Day, Eoin Duffy, who said that less than 25% of cases were being reported and then less than 15% of these cases were being prosecuted due to a host of reasons. Duffy said that from his own knowledge the number of children under 13 years of age being sexually abused was “Alarming”. It is worth noting at this point that in 2010 little has changed, at Ballyshannon Circuit Court, in County Donegal on the 18th of June 2010, a Garda told the court that a now twenty-year-old women had been been raped 57 times by 22 adult men when she was 13 years old, some of those men have been successfully prosecuted. It is clear from Carrigan and other sources that many police officers wanted to do what they could to prevent sexual crime and bring those responsible to justice; however, they faced many hurdles in their task including the power of the Catholic Church in communities all over Ireland. The findings of the Carrigan Report would not at that time be made public due to pressure from the Catholic Hierarchy and the acquiescent Government of the day. While De Valera made speeches about the, “Laughter of happy maidens”, children were being raped to such an extent in his own constituency that a Judge described the Assizes in De Valera’s own constituency as the “Dirty Assizes” due to the large number of child sex crimes appearing before it.

    Francis Hackett who settled in Ireland in the 1920s and was a juror from 1929-37 described sitting through court proceedings that dealt in one sitting with, 20 counts of buggery, a girl who threw her new born baby from a moving train, an elderly man who sexually abused two young girls, and a young man who raped a girl who was under the age of sixteen. However, all of this information was to be confined within its own parochial parameters, the Carrigan Report would not be published as the Catholic Church did not want the inevitable bad publicity that would follow. The Catholic Church had never signed up to the democratic program and felt that they had a God sent right to do as they pleased. The Carrigan suppression is a clear indication as to how the relationship between the Catholic Church and the State worked.

    However, we now know that the Catholic Church had much more to hide than the base immorality of Ireland’s newly liberated streets. Within the new order of the Irish Free State the Catholic Church had taken control of the Education system and the much hated ‘IndustrialSchools’ and the Government remained as silent partners. We now know from the Ferns, Murphy and Ryan Reports into child sex abuse that the Catholic Church not only allowed but facilitated those Homophiles, Hetrophiles and Paedophiles within its ranks that raped and tortured the children in their ‘care’. This was not passive facilitation but was facilitation of a most criminal nature. Known child rapists were protected while the victims were silenced, known child rapists were sent all over the world where their crimes were unknown and they simply continued to rape children. Cardinal Sean Brady, in Ireland, has admitted in 2010 that he with other members of the Catholic Church, forced child victims of religious child rape to sign letters of secrecy about their ordeals.

    The Limits of Liberty, presented by RTE 1, on the 31st of May 2010, tells the heart rendering story of Peter Tyrrell, who was formerly housed in Letterfrack Industrial School, 1924-32, for no other reason than that his family was poor. Peter had committed no crime; his only crime was to come from a family that was poor. Peter had in later life written many letters of complaint to the authorities complaining about the abuse of children by the Religious Orders but his calls for justice fell on deaf ears. Peter felt that he was not believed and in 1967 feeling betrayed and isolated, Peter dosed himself with petrol on Hampstead Heath in England and took his own life. It took twelve months for his body to be identified. We now know that Peter was telling the truth, that truth has been established by a 1000 voices that echoed for so long in those places of evil. The rape and torture of children at the hands of Catholic Priests, Christian Brothers and a host of other Devils in Skirts was systematic and deliberate, these Devils were not held to account by their political bedfellows. Peter Tyrrell had fought against the Nazis in WW11 and had been a prisoner of war; he said in one of his letters that the abuse he suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church was much greater than anything he had been subjected to by the German Guards or Gestapo at his prisoner of war camp.

    The area of sexual crime that has evoked most public disquiet, is that perpetrated against children, yet the IrishRepublic in 2010 has no mandatory reporting of child rape or abuse. Much of the sexual crime committed against children, although not exclusively, involves seduction and entrapment. Contrary to public discourse, those persons in our community who commit acts of sexual crime against children are not a homogeneous group, this category of offender normally and conveniently referred to as paedophiles (sexual attraction to children) is made up of Homophiles (same gender sex abuse), Hetrophiles (opposite gender sex abuse), Bi-sexual paedophiles (either gender, sex abuse), Homosexual epebopiles (sexual abuse of same gender adolescents) and so forth (Casey.1999). There are two reasons that I make this point, First: so that from the very out set of this article, it is clear, that those who commit sexual crimes against children cannot be set outside mainstream society as an easily identifiable group. It may well suit the liberal agenda to castigate this group of people as being non-homosexual, non-lesbian or non-decent middle class liberal, just as it may suit the right wing hard line agenda, to suggest that this is a small deviant group outside of the conservative elite of politicians, Churchmen, Judges, Barristers, Police officers, Army officers, Solicitors, Business Executives and so forth, however, they are all that and more (Operation Amethyst, The Irish Times.2002, Phoenix.2002, Operation Magenta, Ferns, Murphy and Ryan Reports, Secondly and neatly summed up by Brenda O’Brien:

    Demonising child abusers and acting as if they were all the same does nothing to protect children (Irish Times.2002).

    Within this category of criminal, the scales of sexual abuse against children go from the highest level of homicide/rape to the lower level of inappropriate touch, voyeurism and so forth. The conviction of a middle class man in Dublin’s Central Criminal Court in July 2001 for possession of child pornography depicting children being raped and tortured highlights the appetite for such depravity and cruelty. On the 27th of May 2002, the Gardai raided over one hundred premises across the IrishRepublic and seized computer hardware and software containing hundreds of thousands of downloaded files depicting children being raped and tortured. Premises raided during Operation Amethyst included the homes of a Circuit Court Judge, Barrister, Solicitor, Accountant, Company Director, Social Worker and a range of other ‘professionals’ (Irish Times.2002). The majority of these middle and upper class deviants were successfully prosecuted; their punishment in the form of fines and community service. The case against the Circuit Court judge did not proceed as the search warrant used to search his house was some hours out of date.

    Stewart Tendler reporting in the Irish Independent (2002) informed us that more than 1200 teachers, doctors, care workers, policemen and so forth were arrested across the UK during Operation Ore which had like Operation Amethyst been intelligence lead by the FBI. On the same day that Operation Amethyst swung into action, a Garda Sgt/Crime Prevention Officer, based in Drogheda, appeared in the Dublin District Court, facing three charges under the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act (1998) and under the Criminal Law and Sexual Offences Act. One of the charges listed related to solicitation of a female child (Irish Independent.2002). This Garda Sgt would plead guilty and be sentenced to a term of imprisonment; upon his released he reoffended and is now serving an eight year prison term. Over a three year period up to and including 2002 there were 79 Garda Officers charged with a variety of criminal offences including possession of child pornography and sexual assault (Brady, T. Irish Independent. 23/11/02). Some Gardai were also being investigated by the Morris Tribunal and Child pornography had been found at Garda Headquarters (Irish Times.19/12/02).

    In December, 2002, an Irish Army Sergeant Major, who was the highest non-commissioned officer in the Irish Defence Forces pleaded guilty to several counts of sexual assault on young male soldiers. If society needed to be awakened to the endemic nature of child sexual abuse in modern society then that awakening came on the 12th day of September, 2002. On that day two Cambridgeshire police officers were arrested and charged by West Midlands Police investigating the distribution of indecent photographs of children. Detective Constable, Brian Stevens who was one of the officers arrested, had two weeks earlier read a poem ‘Lord of Comfort’ at the memorial service for two ten year old girls, Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells. The two girls had been kidnapped and murdered by a known sexual predator. Detective Stephens had been assigned to the Chapman family during the murder inquiry. A male caretaker and assistant female teacher at the girl’s school would later be charged with the murder of the two young girls. However, the list of high profile cases is endless both in the UK and the IrishRepublic, in 2009, Sinn Fein President; Gerry Adams was forced to admit that he had known for decades that both his father Gerry Snr and his own brother Liam were child abusers. At the time of writing Gerry’s brother Liam is awaiting a decision of the High Court in Dublin in relation to a European Arrest Warrant that has been issued for him in relation to allegations that he raped his daughter Aine from she was a toddler to her teens.

    At the lower end of the scale manipulative men and women exploit the trust placed in them to sexually abuse children, one such example, in 2001, of which there are many coming before the Irish courts, a woman (homophile) was sentenced to six months in prison after admitting that she had sexually abused her friends infant female child, while baby sitting that child. In addition to sexual crimes, there is, as with most crimes, a potential legacy of emotional, psychological and social trauma that can follow from such events. There is also in sexual crime the added dimension of the abused becoming abuser. Many cases of sexual crime against children and others coming before the courts, have shown that the perpetrator of sexual crime have themselves been victims of domestic or institutional sexual criminality. However, societies answer is to deny responsibility and to throw the perpetrator in jail, where the myriad of problems being faced by that convicted person become manifest.

    It should be remembered that much of the sexual crime perpetuated against children takes place within a domestic setting or certainly at the hands of someone known to the victim. It does not take hours, days, or weeks for someone to sexually abuse a child, a perpetrator will seek out any window of opportunity to quench his/her desires. A perpetrator can get enough stimulus from simply lifting a child down from a swing or walking into the bathroom when a child is being bathed, close supervision and monitoring of children and who has access to them is the best way to prevent sexual crime, you will never know who to trust so trust no one. Children need to be educated about the dangers of sexual crime this must be done in a way that leaves no ambiguity. Psychotherapist, Marie Keenan says that:

    In 80-95% of all child sexual abuse cases the perpetrator is known to the victim (Irish Times.2002).

    In every town, town land, village and city in Ireland families have their secrets; however, those secrets are the very water in which the child abuser swims. The abuser will use family loyalties and close friendships to conceal their crimes, however, this is a mistake, people who have knowledge of child abuse must report it and there should be legislation to prosecute them if they don’t report it. John Muncie, in Rethinking Social Policy (2000), reminds us that domestic violence in all its forms has only recently been taken seriously when he says:

    In a similar vein it has taken some twenty years of feminist enquiry to have it acknowledged that violence, danger and risk lie not just on the streets or in the corridors of power, but in the sanctity of the home (p.220).

    While I would agree with Muncie that domestic violence remained hidden for many generations, my own observations would suggest that some of these ‘feminist’ groups within what has become a ‘victims industry’ in Ireland are now occupying that oppressive place of denial once championed by the Catholic Church and its political bedfellows. These groups ‘deny’ domestic violence against men by women, and they excuse the sexual abuse of children by women as some hang over from an abusive nightmare. Women are equally as able to murder and rape as are men, the fact that women do not appear in the dock as often as men is no reason to excuse their criminality. Professor Paul O’Mahony in his book Criminal Chaos (1996), points to inequality as being at the heart of much sexual crime when he states:

    The whole problem is greatly complicated by the significant role played in sexual offences by unequal power relations in society between men and women and between adults and children, and by the highly conflicted, often ambiguous and psychologically fraught nature of ‘normal, consensual’ sexual relations (p.207).

    O’Mahony is in my opinion correct, unequal power relations are significant in sexual criminality. However, traditionally such unequal power relations were seen to be that of powerful men over helpless women, cases now coming before the courts show us that unequal relations between women and children can be every bit as damming and criminal. Indeed we have seen cases of women sexually assaulting both men and women coming before the courts, however, it remains much of a taboo for men to report sexual abuse at the hands of a woman. Equally, social workers in most cases are much more likely to look upon women sexually abusing children as a medical difficulty to be addressed by counselling, than being purely criminal to be addressed by the courts.

    While there is no doubt that sexual crime is in part related to unequal relations between male/female, adults and children, the question of sexual crime and particularly such sexual crime against children is much more complex, in that it involves a host of social, psychological, moral and religious influences (Casey.1999 and O’Mahony.1996). Psychotherapist, Marie Keenan states that:

    The lethal cocktail is a person living with a feeling of powerlessness in a position of power (Irish Times.2002).

    While largely ignored by the tabloid press, in more and more cases coming before the Irish Courts the role played by women in sexual criminality is slowly being exposed. The role of women in sexual criminality whether by way of perpetrator, facilitator or both remains an area of research largely untouched.[2] Yet the central role played by women in sexual criminality has been known for decades. The problem is of course that the Feminazi want the focus to remain on male deviants and this of course allows the truth about tens of thousands of self confessed female child abusers to be buried in the dusty shelves of the fourteen area Health Boards in the IrishRepublic. This concealment by stealth ensures that children are put at risk of sexual molestation at the hands of women each and every day in Ireland.

    The conviction in England in the 1960s of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley for a series of gruesome sex/homicide crimes against children was a wake up call that was largely ignored as those perpetrators and their crimes were sentenced to death by the lethal injection of time. History continued and continues to repeat itself, time and time again, the Yorkshire Ripper and his wife Rose West committed heinous crimes, David and Catherine Birnie in Perth were the West’s mirror image. Yet in every epoch women have been portrayed as the helpless followers of the male demon, when it is quite clear that these women were able and willing to participate in murder and rape at will. These cases are at the higher end of the scale and are used here for that purpose; however, each and every day in Ireland men and women in equal number commit acts of sexual criminality, mainly against children. Recent incest cases coming before the Irish Courts show what men and women can do in equal measure. Homophiles, hetrophiles and so forth pervade every area of society, yet many people in positions of power and authority deliberately and intentionally try to mislead the public.

    While there must be public awareness of the crime of sexual abuse against children and sexual crime in general, we must not allow that awareness to become a witch hunt, whether against the Church, the State, any group or individual in our modern day democracy. Whether, that Witch hunt be driven by the Feminazi, the chatting liberals of the middle classes, the right wing moral philosophers, weak politicians or the lurid and voyeuristic banner headlines of the tabloids, headlines that facilitate the deep recesses of denial in our country. While De Valera made speeches about the “laughter of happy maidens” the courts in his own constituency were packed with cases of child rape. While former Minister for Justice, John O’Donoghue, talked about there being no where in Ireland for abusers of children to hide, he was signing off on a One-Billion-Euro deal that would ensure that thousands of religious child rapists would never face the courts. He denied money for rehabilitative care of persons convicted of sexual crime, yet could spend vast fortunes of tax payers’ money on providing himself with five star luxuries.

    Carol Sarler, a rape victim, supports Watter’s view of the negative impact of extreme feminism on the sexual crime debate when she says:

    We must first neutralise the venom and the influence of the sisterhood, who cannot bear to see a man in jail without also seeing the key thrown away (Observer.2000).

    What is clear is that the general management of perpetrators must be such as to strive for best practice in child protection and community safety. This view was summed up concisely by Professor Harry Ferguson when he said:

    The issue needs to move from one of revulsion to remedies (Irish Times.2002).

    The great problem with this rational approach to remedies is that we live in a country that has no mandatory reporting of child rape/abuse, we live in a country where the files of tens of thousands of known child abusers remain on the shelves of the Health Boards without ever being passed to the Gardai, we live in a country that has produced the Ferns Report, Murphy Report and Ryan reports, all of which have identified thousands of child abusers and these abusers continue to live in the community without any restriction. Tens of thousands of known sex offenders can without legal restriction work with children and have unsupervised access to children. The only known sex offenders who are barred from working with children are those who appear on the sex offenders register, this accounts for 1100 sex offenders in 2010, this accounts for a small percentage of persons who are known to have engaged in sexual criminality including child rape.

    The case of Catholic Nun, Sr Nora Wall and her co-accused Pablo Mc Cabe, who were wrongfully convicted by the Irish Courts, with the crime of child rape, is used by Kevin Myers, to highlight the caution that must accompany public disquiet:

    Had it not been discovered that at least one of the witnesses against Sr Nora Wall and Pablo Mc Cabe had previously made unsubstantiated rape charges, might not Nora and Pablo be in indefinite solitary confinement the objects of universal obloquy throughout the land. How, in the moral frenzy which is sweeping the country is anyone able to distinguish the genuine complaint from the bogus one after such a passage of time? Have other Nora Walls vanished unnoticed into our prisons? How many more still to come? And for how much longer will tabloid headlines demonise human beings into caricatures of witchdom, the easier, no doubt, to burn them at the stake? (Irish Times.2001).

    An equally contemporary case of injustice, of which there are many, was highlighted by RTE 1, in their current affairs programme, True Lives (2002). It was shown in this program, that Fr Shay Cullen, who works with the street children of the Philippines many of whom are prostituted by ruthless child sex traffickers for the international child sex tourist industry, became the victim of a malicious child rape allegation in 2001, the penalty for which is death in the Philippines. Fr Cullen was eventually acquitted in Court, as it became clear that the child at the centre of the allegation had been forced to make such an allegation against Fr Cullen by those with an interest in keeping the child sex industry free from the International gaze that Fr Cullen’s work had brought. For some men/women convicted and sentenced for the sexual abuse of children and sexual crime in general, they have had to spend decades in prison, before being cleared by new advances in DNA evidence. One such person Charles Fain, was released in the US, 24th August, 2001, after serving 19 years of a life sentence, on Death Row, for a sexual crime against a child, that new DNA evidence, proves he did not commit (Evening Herald.2001). Fain is only one of many such innocent people who have walked free after many years pleading their innocence; How many died innocent men/women, we will never know. In a modern day democracy one minute in jail for an innocent person, never mind 19 years, is a crime against humanity that cannot be tolerated.

    As Ireland remains in denial of the endemic nature of sexual criminality, miscarriages of justice will continue to happen, as those accused remain ‘guilty’ until proven ‘innocent’. However, at the centre of all the debate about sexual crime, must be the victims alleged or real and how best to develop a fair and just way of dealing with their complaints, without inflicting further hurt and pain. Whether that is further hurt and pain inflicted by an over zealous social worker, psychologist, Doctor or Police Officer[3], to prove a crime and so on. Children have time and again been used by jilted lovers and bitter ex-wives to make allegations of sexual crime against former partners, false allegations of sexual criminality have been made in land and property disputes, the list is endless. Perpetrators alleged or real have been forced into suicide or denial, having already been held high in public odium in his/her community. Here again the Feminazi fall silent about injustice, here again the Feminazi do nothing for the cause of the real victims of sexual crime.

    Donald West (1983) offers some light for those who have been victims of childhood sexual abuse when he suggests:

    That even where there is initial manifest disturbance, the children out grow, these reactions and make a satisfactory adjustment (p.7).

    Victims alleged or real and perpetrators alleged or real and the way the Courts system treats them, remains a serious bone of contention and contradiction within our criminal justice system. As highlighted by a report commissioned by the Rape Crisis Centre (RCC) (Irish Times.2002), the majority of sexual crimes go unreported for a variety of reasons. One reason alleged is that the courts have no empathy with such victims. While I do not suggest that any serious commentator on child sexual abuse or sexual crime in general, take this report by the RCC, as reflecting a ‘real’ or ‘precise’ picture of the true extent of sexual crime. Not least because of its PVC window methodology. For example, the report used 1000 cold calls as its central sample, of alleged or actual victims of sexual crime. The report, even with its flawed methodology is a useful barometer, and I labour it no more than that, of the possible extent of the problem to be faced in the area of sexual crime in the Irish Republic (see, also Conference Report.1993).

    Again it is essential that we remember that many thousands of people are now making a salary out of what has become known as the ‘victims industry’, one can hardly turn a corner but some new ‘made up’ group is being funded by tax payers money. Some solicitors are openly placing advertisements in the lurid tabloids, inviting people to come forward and make an unchallenged claim from the Redress Board. Some so called journalists are making fortunes by simply having court transcripts printed in paper back. For many the ‘victims industry’ is putting bread on the table and for this reason, open, honest and reasoned debate on the subject of sexual crime is a long way off.

    Victims and perpetrators alleged or real, feel the criminal justice system is not dealing with them in a fair and reasonable manner. In 2002, the Chairperson of the RCC Ms Breda Allen said:

    The Court system is adversarial, switches the onus from the alleged perpetrator to the victim (Irish Times.2002).

    I think it is fair to say that these comments by the Chairperson of the RCC show a lack of understanding of our court system. The burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt must remain with the State, and as the examples in this paper have shown, juries are not always a good detector of false allegations and lies, when presented with the drama and emotion of such cases, and particularly if they are high profile. Rarely are women charged with making false allegations of rape or sexual assault against men, and never have the Feminazi called for such prosecutions, yet men who are subject to such false allegations and their families have to live with the stigma for the rest of their lives. On the 17th of June, 2002, at Cork Circuit Court, one such woman was returned for trail for making three different false allegations of rape, against three different men, at three different times. This woman admitted during Garda interviews that she had never even meet one of the men, whom she alleged raped her (Irish Independent.2002).[4] False allegations are now common practice for a whole range of reasons, yet our criminal justice system remains unwilling to prosecute the perjurers, family courts are notorious places for false allegations to be made, these in camera secret proceedings throw the door wide open to false allegation and perjury.

    In 1994 the Supreme Court made a decision that went some way to helping alleviate the court room trauma of a trial for the victim and to a lesser consideration the perpetrator, by allowing a trial judge to give Defendants a discount off their sentence ‘if they plead guilty’ and save the victim the distress of giving evidence and keeping free a trial slot for another case. However, this discount for a plea bargain leaves the defendant who is pleading not guilty at a disadvantage, of they are found guilty. Sr Nora Wall being a case in point, where she was sentenced to life for a crime she did not commit, had she pleaded guilty she would have received about 7-10 years. It is a bizarre situation for those who maintain their innocence but who may be falsely convicted. It can also be argued that the plea bargain, simply allows actual perpetrators to deny/minimise their crimes in the public domain, by pleading guilty to sample charges and serving only a short sentence. It is often the case that a guilty plea in a rape/homicide case will see the rape charge dropped as part of the deal, this creates its own long term problems.

    Elizabeth Stanko, in Rethinking Social Policy (2000), says that:

    Moreover, research shows that when an incident comes to the attention of the criminal justice system, the State’s interest in punishing violent offenders if affected by people’s assessment of the violence they experience (p.250).

    Another bone of contention in the area of sexual crime coming before the courts is whether or not the continued psychological and emotional fall out from acts of sexual crime should be taken into consideration, when sentence is passed on a convicted person. The Victim Impact Report which is prepared for the court in cases of sexual crime and non-sexual crime enters a contradiction into our criminal justice system, which has since the foundation of the State, held that it is the crime committed and not its consequences for which an offender must be punished. In theory and on occasion, in practice, a person committing a sexual assault at the lower end of the scale can receive a more severe sentence than a perpetrator of rape, if the rape victim recovers better due to personal traits. There have been many cases where harsh sentences were handed down due to the fact that the victim had attempted to take their own life due to the alleged abuse; however, many of these children had been prescribed unlicensed mind-altering drugs such as Serotax. Serotax is banned in all other countries due to its side effects including suicide and personality disorder, yet the majority of our judges would have no idea what these victims were feed as their Health Board files are rarely available to the Court.[5]

    Experts continue to argue as to whether the Victim Impact Reports relate solely to the alleged or actual abuse, and not other environmental considerations (Bradshaw.1999). As I have pointed out here and which will come as a surprise to many reading, unlicensed mind-altering drugs are continuing to be feed to childhood victims of abuse, yet the negative side effects of these drugs, including self harm and false memories have been known about for many years. Victim Impact Reports are normally ‘packed’ including matters that have been proven manifestly untrue in court, when one witnesses these Reports being distributed to the lurid tabloids by persons more interested in headlines than community safety one understands why this ‘packing’ occurs. Judge Paul Carney, one of the most seasoned Judges dealing with sexual criminality has regularly criticised the abuse of the Victim Impact Statement, by certain people appearing before his court.

    Sentencing in the Irish Courts remains discretionary, with the caveat of the (1993) Criminal Justice Act, which allows for the DPP to seek a Review of a sentence, if ‘they’ believe that such a sentence is unduly lenient. However, there is a sense within the Criminal Justice System that the 1993 Act, is being applied in a way that is invidiously discriminatory, in that certain cases that are high profile are appealed by the State, while more serious cases with lesser sentences are not appealed. In November, 2000, Michael Feeney, a former Headmaster, was convicted of sexually molesting dozens of children, one of Feeney’s victims told the Circuit Court in Monaghan that those pupils not abused were the exception. Feeney had engaged in serious sexual assault and bondage with the children. Feeney was sentenced to three years and the DPP did not appeal. At the same court Vincent Mc Kenna was convicted of the sexual assault of one child, and was sentenced to three years, and the DPP did appeal. The difference between the two cases was that the DPP v Mc Kenna case was high profile and the DPP simply went with the baying mob.

    In 2001, the Central Criminal Court, where serious cases of sexual crime are heard, imposed lesser sentences in half the sex cases heard there, than lesser cases heard in the Circuit Courts. For example, in the Central Criminal Court, twenty-seven persons convicted of serious sexual assault were sentenced to two years or over, but less than five (Irish Times.2002). There are times however when ‘exceptional’ circumstances are addressed by way of exceptional sentences in cases of child sexual crime. In a case coming before the Central Criminal Court in October, 2002, a 42 year old male (Homophile) was given a life sentence for the rape and sexual abuse of a number of male children. In this ‘exceptional’ case the perpetrator had video taped some of his crimes against the children (Irish Independent.2002). Yet two months later in the Circuit Criminal Court, a 47 year old soccer manager with previous convictions for Homophile activity, received three years for a series of Homophile assaults on young boys in his ‘care’ (Irish Independent.2002).

    Almost every offence has its special characteristics and so deserves to be treated as a unique event. The continued calls by some groups within the ‘victims industry’ for mandatory sentencing, have themselves done more harm than good in their blinkered approach to sexual crime. This myriad of groups now competing for tens of millions of tax payer’s money each year will do what ever it takes to grab the headlines as the various trenches of funding become available from Government departments. Make no mistake, this is an industry that many of it’s well salaried and expense account CEOs will not be letting go any time soon. Paul O’Mahony (1996) raises the issue of mandatory sentencing, when he says:

    Despite emotive calls for a uniform rigidly harsh response to sex offences, everything that has been learned about sex offending in recent years indicates that it is essential to maintain the tradition of judicial discretion in this area (p.125).[6]

    Some judges have taken the time to try and understand the complexities of sexual criminality, however, it is clear from the comments of a number f judges that they have very little idea about the complexities of sexual crime in general. For example, in a case coming before the Central Criminal Court (18th February, 2002), High Court Judge, Mr Philip O’Sullivan, asked for new guidelines to clarify the distinction between therapeutic and medical examination, of alleged rape and sexual assault victims. While my observation is in no way a criticism of Judge O’Sullivan’s request, it is an incredible indictment on the Criminal Justice system that after thousands of such cases coming before the courts many judges remain in limbo when it comes to the complexities of sexual criminality. Mr Justice O’Sullivan was speaking on the 14th day of the trail of a man charged with 79 counts of sexual assault against his niece. Mr Justice O’Sullivan, directed the jury to find the man not guilty on 78 of the charges, after Manchester Police Surgeon, Dr Steven Robinson, told the court that, “modern medical practice” had not been applied in this case. The fact is of course that modern medial practice has not been applied in many such cases, yet the Prosecution, Judges, Juries and Defence teams accept such evidence as bone fide.

    I was given access to a number of Books of Evidence, by a number of persons accused of sexual crime, in many of the ‘Medical Reports’, contained in those Books of Evidence, was a ‘medical finding’ referred to as anal dilation. In each of the medical reports examined in these Books of Evidence this ‘finding’ was stated as being consistent with the sex abuse alleged, yet in many of the victims statements no allegation of anal abuse was ever mentioned. Anal dilation is determined by a doctor inserting one of his/her digits inside the anus of an alleged victim, having placed the digit inside an alleged victim the Doctor guesstimates whether there is dilation of the anus or not. There is no scientific measure. In contrast to the conclusions of consistency in these medical reports, the Cleveland Report concluded:

    We are satisfied from the evidence that the consensus is that the sign of anal dilation is abnormal and suspicious and requires further investigation. It is not in itself evidence of anal abuse (Kahan.1998.p.68).

    However, the word consistent in a medical report is normally enough for non-medical/expert professional law officers in the office of the DPP to pursue charges against an accused person. The burden of proof in such cases has been reduced to the standard of proof in a civil action, all of which flies in the face of International standards in relation to a persons right to a fair trial. It is clear from the media reporting of such cases that the prosecution labour the fact that the accused person cannot offer any reasonable explanation as to why such a complaint was made. An accused person in such cases now remains guilty until proven innocent. Again proving that in the absence of universal knowledge of these matters, miscarriages of justice will prevail.

    The confusion surrounding sexual criminality and particularly such cases coming before the courts is best explained by case law. A High Court Order directing that a former soldier should not be prosecuted for allegedly sexually abusing an eleven year old boy in 1981 was appealed to the Supreme Court by the DPP. The Supreme Court in upholding the order ruled:

    That there was a real risk of an unfair trial, due to the passage of time (Irish Independent.2002).

    Yet it is clear that people have been prosecuted where the passage of time was much greater and the risks much higher. A number of key points were tested before the Court of Criminal Appeal, in Mc Kenna vs The DPP. Mc Kenna argued that if documents relating to counselling sessions with an alleged victim of sexual abuse were not delivered to the Trial Court until the first day of an accused person’s trial (this is now the position in such cases due to a Supreme Court ruling. Irish Times.2001) that the accused person should have a right to an adjournment to have those documents examined by an expert. A second point related to a warning to the jury where various discredited concepts were at issue, for example, Robust Repression, False Memory Syndrome and so forth. It was clear from the notes in this case that the complainant had for several months told both a GP and Health Board staff that she had no memory of any incidents of sexual abuse, however, after she was prescribed unlicensed mind-altering drugs she recovered memories of the accused forcing her to pull his foreskin back and forward on an almost daily basis until he ejaculated, even though it would be proven at trial that the accused had been circumcised as a baby and could not for medical reasons ever be masturbated. The complainant also made 76 allegations of sexual assault against the accused, even though everyone agreed that the accused was actually living in England during that entire period. The alleged victim was able to recall her statement to Gardai with 100% word accuracy to the Court even though she had made the statement two years prior to the trial, this according to experts is consistent with the use of mind altering drugs and dubious counselling practices, practices that have been banned in the UK for many years.

    In the DPP vs McKenna extensive Health Board files were only delivered to the defence on the first day of trial. The trial judge refused an adjournment so that the defence could have the files examined by an expert. In the aftermath of Mc Kenna’s trial and conviction, the Health Board notes, transcript of the trial and all other documents relating to the trial were examined by Dr Mohan MRC Psychiatrist, Diploma in Forensic Psychiatry, Consultant Forensic Psychiatry, who is presently Senior Consultant with the Department of Justice. Dr Mohan said of the documents relating to the DPP vs Mc Kenna’s trial:

    It is clear that the jury had insufficient information upon which to make a balanced decision (25th September.2001).

    On both points, in the face of overwhelming evidence, the Court of Criminal Appeal ruled against the Appellant (Irish Times.2002), this ruling highlighting the cavalier attitude of some judges to the complexities of sexual crime, particularly in high profile cases. It is this cavalier attitude by some members of the judiciary that is seeing more innocent people imprisoned[7], particularly as those in power in Ireland remain in denial of their complicit role in sexual criminality. Elizabeth Stanko (2000) addresses the broader social environment in which crime takes place when she says:

    Individuals’ own resources, cultural histories and knowledge, together with their social, institutional and personal reserves, assist in the assistance to and affect the impact of threats and violence. This is true for both offender and victim (who may be one and the same person)… argument is that victims meet violence within a complex web of personal, situational and social situations (p.249).

    In relation to the area of sexual criminality and sexual crime involving children in particular, Psychotherapist, Ms Marie Keenan, criticised:

    The crude medical and legal discourses which used classifications that ignored the social context in which abuse took place, as well as the different types of offenders, and how so many were amenable to treatment (Irish Times.2002).

    Some so called ‘victims’ groups appear to have stepped outside their remit, particularly those groups who have coached ‘victims’ in a uniformity of language, as they present the remnants of their troubled lives to the courts. It is clear that clichés such as, “It is a life sentence” or “I have been robbed of my childhood”, have become the standard comments of those ‘victims’ alleged or real coming before the courts and who’s press releases are being handed to the lurid tabloids. We have had on numerous occasions the bizarre situation where Victim Impact Statements are sitting in the offices of tabloid editors before the judge of the sentencing court has ever seen them, the editor’s copy being ‘embargoed’ until sentence has been set down. This self profiling applies only to those cases where the ‘victim’ has waived their anonymity and in some instances goes on to claim almost pop star status having been adopted for a day or two by the lurid tabloids. Paid interviews, scholarships, cash donations from the public, publishing deals, can all be part of the ‘victims’ portfolio. It is this theatre and its performance on the stage of the tabloid press, which undermines the cause of the real victims of sexual crime, particularly the young and the vulnerable.

    As the public ask the question: Why? If a young person has been subjected to such abuse, would they want to go on the pages of the tabloid press? A tabloid press that facilitates and normalises sexual crime by their sexual exploitation of men, women and children, serious questions remain to be answered about the true motivation of senior executives within Victim Support (The Phoenix.2002) and the ‘victims’ industry in general. Even during this time of recession, hundreds of millions of tax payer’s money is being poured into an industry that remains without audit or supervision, we the tax payer cant even ask the questions that would allow us to establish if we are getting anything in return for our money, other than keeping a great many self profilers and woolly jumpers in nice offices with inflated salaries and endless expense accounts. Even as some sections of the media rightly scrutinize the salaries and expenses of politicians, bankers and senior civil servants, the ‘victims’ industry remains untouched by such scrutiny. When ‘victims’ groups say they have had a surge in people seeking help, we have no empirical/objective evidence to support those claims as we are quickly told that ‘Confidentiality’ blocks us from passing the salaried gate keepers to such information.

    What then of the many thousands of persons, including Health Board staff (Irish Times.2002), confirmed by the Health Boards as having committed sexual crimes including multiple rapes/victims and who’s details have not been passed onto the Gardai. There is no legislation in 2010, nor is there any proposal for legislation to address the greater number of persons confirmed as having committed sexual crimes against children (96%). This is not to accept in some blind manner the result of Health Board investigations or their conclusions in relation to sexual crimes against children, however, thousands of people who have admitted their crimes to Health Board staff and who have not been prosecuted, remain without obligation in the community. One is only too acutely aware of high profile cases of false diagnosis such as that by Dr Moira Woods, the former Director of the Sexual Assault Unit, at the Rotunda Hospital, who was found guilty by the Irish Medical Council, of wrongly accusing five families of sexually abusing their children, this finding was not appealed by Dr Woods (Sunday Independent.2002).

    Dr Woods was not the exception, GPs and many medical practitioners remain a law onto themselves, GPs who have admitted having sexual relations with and children to some of their patients, who have admitted feeding unlicensed mind-altering drugs to their patients continue to practice without restriction in the IrishRepublic. Many concepts and procedures banned in child sex abuse cases in the UK, continue to be utilised in the IrishRepublic, indeed many ‘medical’ practitioners operating in the Republic would not be allowed to work in the UK. The Royal College of Psychiatrists in London has been scathing of the concepts of repression and memory recovery techniques[8] used in child sex abuse cases, yet people are convicted in the Irish Courts on an almost daily basis, on evidence that has been derived from such practices, due to a lack of knowledge right across the Criminal Justice System.

    Professor Paul O’Mahony (1996) tells us that in the period 1987-1991:

    The Health Boards in the IrishRepublic dealt with and confirmed 2,474 cases of child sexual abuse, of these cases 180 were prosecuted (p.220).

    Even at this embryonic stage of the complaint process it is clear that there is a wide margin for abuse of the discretional process, by the Health Boards, other agencies and individuals, especially but not exclusively in provincial towns, as so graphically highlighted by the Ferns Report. The Ferns report showed that child rapists within the Catholic Church were protected by their superiors and this concealment was assisted and facilitated by many within the high echelons of civil society. The Ferns Report is not extraordinary, today in 2010 small elites are determining who will and who will not be prosecuted. If we take the case of provincial towns where these elites live in the same private housing estates, play golf in the local golf club, holiday in the same destinations, car pool their children each day and so forth, it is clear that many known abusers continue to be protected. The case of the Wexford publican who admitted to Health Board staff that he had systematically raped five children including his young sister, and he was able to remain at large for many years, including training the local under-age GAA teams, as he done a deal with Health Board staff. He was able to pay for himself and his five victims to go to the Granada Institute and it would only be years later that his sister decided that this concealment was not right that he was prosecuted.

    If it is accepted that under reporting of sexual crime is as high as two thirds as highlighted by the report commissioned by the RCC (2002), then we can reasonably estimate that there were 7,422 active cases of child sexual abuse in the Irish Republic in the period 1987-1991. In 2002, The Department of Health and Children in their annual report confirmed that there had been 2,104 confirmed cases of child sexual abuse, involving 1,991 children, in the year 2000[9]. That trend has continued and in 2010 the figures for 2009 show an overall increase in these figures. Again if we account for non-reporting there is a year on year average of 6,000 children being raped and sexually abused, with at least another 10,000 children being subjected to other types of abuse. However, we are now in the midst, like it or not, of a child and domestic abuse epidemic, the conditions are now ripe for such abuses, the vast increase in alcohol/drug consumption in the home, unemployment, depression and a general feeling of social decay have opened the way for unrestricted abuse. The HSE cannot even protect the children in their own ‘care’, what chance has a child five stories up in a concrete jungle, or a child in the leafy lanes of suburbia.

    Mr Brian Lenihan TD when Minister for State for Health and Children did in a parliamentary reply to Mr Joe Costello TD, in 2002, confirm that there had been a total of 8,269 cases of child abuse including sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect referred to the Health Boards in the year 2000. This total involved 7,739 children. A graphic example of the Government’s failure to protect children in its ‘care’, was highlighted by the Honourable Mr Justice Peter Kelly, of the High Court in Dublin, when he said of the State Institutions of ‘care’ for children in Dublin:

    Animals are treated better than the children in this care facility (Irish Independent.2001).

    Unfortunately the case of the thirteen year old boy that had caused Mr Justice Kelly to make these initial comments about the said institutions, would be followed by tragedy three weeks later, when Mr Justice Kelly had to accept that the young boy that he had sent to this institution of ‘care’ had been systematically sexually abused while resident there (Irish Independent.2001). In another contemporary case of a young person in the case of the South Eastern Health Board, the Health Board confirmed the child’s allegations of sexual abuse while in their ‘care’ by a member of staff, however, the DPP decided not to prosecute. This type of environment of social decay is the very waters in which the Homophile, Hetrophile and so forth swim. What better place to be than a place where children are drugged with unlicensed mind altering drugs, where one day to the next is a blare for the child, children coming into State ‘care’ because they have already been sexually abused are perfect targets, who is going to believe them, a jury certainly wont convict on their evidence. What is the word of a dysfunctional child against that of a middle class ‘professional’?

    A Report by the Irish Social Services Inspectorate, which carried out an investigation into the ‘care’ centre at the centre of these allegations, makes horrifying reading. One of the report findings was that staff had not even been subjected to minimal clearance procedures with the Garda Siochana (Irish Times.2002). However, Garda vetting is limited to actual convictions, as the HSE makes cut backs and tries to make savings, more and more cheap labour will be sourced to carry out a whole range of tasks within the child care/health care sector. Make no bones about it, the majority of this cheap labour, are foreign nationals, who cannot be vetted. As tens of thousands of people poured into Ireland over recent years, many left behind criminal pasts in their countries of origin. The police in many of these countries of origin have no computerised records of criminal convictions, our prisons are filled to the brim with foreign nationals who have come to Ireland and simply continued to rape and plunder at will, some of these people worked in ‘care’ homes and so forth and of course they would have got Garda clearance.

    While it is clear from the Murphy, Ryan and Ferns Reports that many thousands of children have been raped and sexually molested over many decades while in the ‘care’ of the State, by those in whose ‘care’ they were placed, children continue to be put at risk by the State. A Report by CARI, a voluntary group working with children said:

    Child sexual abuse victims are being left at risk due to a lack of supervision on access visits to children in ‘care’ of the State. The service is seriously inadequate and sexual abuse victims are not being given the support they need. Supervision in facilities which are supposed to acre for child victims is no where near adequate (TV3.2001).

    In Irish prisons where people have been convicted of heinous crimes against children, those convicted persons are regularly given access to children on visits without any HSE or qualified Child Protection supervision. In a report by the INTO (Irish Times.2002) it was stated that, there one thousand teachers who have no formal training, working in primary schools in the IrishRepublic. There are a further eight hundred substitute teachers with even fewer qualifications working in the same primary schools, this was at a time when twenty qualified teachers were suspended on full pay awaiting the out come of sex abuse allegations against them (Sunday Independent.2002) and many more teachers have been convicted of such crimes. In Ireland in 2010 one can be a Creche worker, youth worker, care worker and so on with out having to under go anything other than minimal clearance with the Gardai, if even that.

    While the Sex Offenders Bill 2001, introduced a sex offenders register, and put an ‘onus’ on a convicted person to declare their conviction for sexual crime ‘if’ applying for work with children, it is clear that such legislation is piece meal and ill-considered. Experts state that such registers have no impact on sexual crime (Irish Times.2003). In fact it has been argued and demonstrated that such registers are simply used by the State to abuse the Human and Civil Rights of that minority of persons already convicted and punished. The legislation does nothing to address the many tens of thousands of persons who have been confirmed by Health Boards as having raped and sexually abused children but have not been prosecuted 96% (Irish Times.2002). The register does not include those hundreds of people who paid for and down loaded images of child rape, all of whom continue to be a serious threat to children.

    As a caveat to these figures by the Health Boards, concerning children, the annual crimes figures compiled by the Gardai and relating to the years 2000/01, showed that sexual offences reported to the Gardai, were up by 83% in 2001, compared to 2000. The figures for reported sexual crime in 2000, 1,070 compared to 1,956 for 2001. Tom O’Malley (1996) points out that, there is a very considerable attrition of cases between reporting and going to trial and conviction. In O’Malley’s research he found that in the years 1988-91 inclusive, 344 cases of rape were known to the Gardai, proceedings were taken in only 159 cases and, at the end of 1993, there were only 70 offenders in prison convicted of rape. In 2008 there were 1,407 Sexual Offences recorded by An Garda Siochana, by October 2009, court proceedings had commenced for 158 of these offences. There were 29 convictions while a further 106 cases were still pending (CSO.2010). So it would appear that very little has changed in terms of the numbers of persons being subjected to sexual violence, these CSO figures do not include cases of child sex abuse confirmed by the HSE, unreported cases and so forth.

    It is an incredible indictment on successive Governments that there is a prosecution lottery, not only in that there is no mandatory reporting of child rape and sexual abuse, but that HSE staff arbitrarily decide which cases of alleged or confirmed cases of sexual crime against children that they will refer to An Garda Siochana. And then the DPP will decide which cases to prosecute, even in cases where the perpetrator has admitted wrong doing the DPP has not prosecuted. All of which makes a nonsense of the Irish Constitution’s guarantee ‘to treat all citizens equal before the law’. This discretionary aspect of the reporting process makes a mockery of our criminal justice system. In 2000, the North Eastern Health Board (NEHB) dealt with 1277 cases of child abuse, including rape and sexual abuse, 47% of cases were in Monaghan/Cavan. The NEHB reported less than 5% of these cases to the Gardai (NEHB.2001). Yet under child protection protocol guidelines the Health Board and Gardai are obliged to formally report child protection concerns to each other. However, as is typical of child protection in the IrishRepublic this protocol is not mandatory. Cavan/Monaghan has a registered electorate of approx 90,000 persons, if we project the figures for Cavan/Monaghan in 2000, over a ten year period, we would conclude that a possible 6,380 cases of child abuse will have been reported, with a possible 12,760 going unreported in Cavan/Monaghan. It is perhaps the full extent of child abuse that keeps the subject from serious scrutiny.

    While the Fianna Fail Party (senior Coalition Government partners 1997-2010) made Mandatory reporting of child rape an election promise in 1997, there is no legislation in operation for the mandatory reporting of child rape in 2010 and there will be no such legislation in the life time of the present Government. Child Rape is not new in Ireland it has been known about since the Carrigan Report in 1930, however, the Catholic Church among other interested parties does not want Mandatory reporting of child rape on the statute books and for that reason it will not be on the statute books, this will be a great relief to those thousands of persons in society who continue to rape children and depend on the concealment of their crimes to quench their lust. Non Mandatory reporting of child rape is to the sexual deviant, what the safe house is to the terrorist.

    Prior to the introduction of the 1997 Criminal Justice Act there existed in common law the crime of ‘misprision of felony’. Misprision of Felony simply meant that if a person had knowledge of a serious crime having been committed by another person but had concealed or failed to report such crime to the Gardai they could be prosecuted. However, knowing that many within the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church and Civil Society could fall upon this sword, if the dark secrets within the Church were fully exposed, Fianna Fail upon taking power in 1997 quickly removed it from the statue books. The 1997 Criminal Justice Act created two new offences but neither had the scope of misprision of felony, this was the intention of the legislator, now Bishops and Cardinals could even openly admit that they had forced children to sign letters of secrecy about their rapes at the hands of the Catholic Church and these Bishops and Cardinals would not face prosecution for their crimes against God and man.

    Under section 7(2) of the 1997 Act, an offence occurs where a person knows that someone else has committed an arrestable offence (punishable by five years or more), and does without reasonable excuse any act with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of that other person. This new offence under the 1997 Act requires the doing of a positive act with the intent to impede prosecution, so a mere failure to report a crime, including child rape, is not sufficient for prosecution. The other offence created under the 1997 Act, section 8, which replaces a different common law offence of ‘compounding a felony’. It applies only where a person knows that an arrestable offence has been committed but agrees for some consideration (i.e. money) not to disclose that information. Again section 8 would require more than the act of failing to report the rape of a child in order to be prosecuted. It is also worth noting that Section 15, of the 1997 Criminal Justice Act, applies the abolition of the misprision of felony retrospectively, should there be any doubt why this law was removed from the statute books. How many times have Ministers said that laws could not be applied retrospectively in other matters, yet it would appear that it could be done to help Bishops, Cardinals and other criminals in our society?

    Such is the moral bankruptcy of the relationship between the Catholic Church and their political bedfellows that we have legislation that puts a mandatory obligation on banks to report suspicious monetary transactions but we have no mandatory reporting of child rape. In 1990 the Law Reform Commission argued that failure to report child sexual abuse should be made a specific crime for particular categories of people, such as GPs, Health Board staff and so forth. Successive Governments have continued to fail children. Shanahan, K. (1992) reports on a survey of 20 CountyWicklow based GPs who replied to a questionnaire on incest, eleven of these GPs stated that they had come across cases of incest in their practice, but only three of the eleven had reported onwards. This survey could have been carried out in any part of Ireland then or now and the results would be the same, GPs particularly in provincial towns, town lands and villages who are dependent on a small number if extended families for their bread and butter are not going to rock the boat over the rape of a child.

    In 1991 when it became clear that there were going to be a flood of allegations of child rape against Homophiles and so forth within the Catholic Church, the Fianna Fail Government under Charles Haughey, moved quickly to reduce the sentence for sexual assault (which included buggery) from ten years down to five in the Criminal Justice Act 1991. It is easy to see why some Government Ministers jumped on the ban wagon when certain high profile (non-religious) cases came before the courts, this clearly a case of those shouting loudest, do so to conceal their own crimes. It is clear that when people like John O’Donoghue were filling the tabloid press with his nonsense about Zero Tolerance, it insured that his expense accounts were not being examined too closely. How many children could have been protected with the vast fortunes squandered by O’Donoghue and others whose only interest was their own self indulgence?

    Whatever the true extent of sexual crime it is clear that anyone who believes that punitive legislation and secrecy is a cure for what is in most cases of child sexual abuse, a compulsive disorder, are without education and knowledge of the subject. Those who advocate punitive legislation and secrecy as key elements of Child Protection, simply condemn thousands of children to increased intimidation and cruelty, they further bury the debate for another generation, which may well be their intention. Dr Ian O’Donnell explains that research has shown that the public usually wants tougher responses to crime when presented with general questions such as whether they think the courts are too lenient:


    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A very long post; I could not read it in full.

      What is the solution then?


  15. hanging out profile image60
    hanging outposted 13 years ago

    maybe now you understand why the god of the bible invoked capital punishment.

  16. profile image0
    klarawieckposted 13 years ago

    Sex offenders can never be trusted. They will continue hurting people once released from jail. It's an uncurable disease.

    1. profile image51
      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      so what to do with them?

      1. profile image0
        klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Someone had this same post a while back. My answer remains the same - I said that sex offenders should be treated at the Dharma Institute from LOST where they perform a series of psychedelic tests to fry the brain of the patient. There, that's my answer.

    2. pennyofheaven profile image60
      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Who said they cannot be cured?

      1. profile image0
        klarawieckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I have long-time friends who work for the Florida correctional facilities. They never change!

        1. pennyofheaven profile image60
          pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Change is a choice. Cure is a remedy regardless of the choice. Diseases are curable if they have a remedy. So no cure exists or has been applied? Choices can not be cured.

        2. profile image0
          KerryMaxCookposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You you believe they can change after they are castrated?

  17. MrsJdenim profile image60
    MrsJdenimposted 12 years ago

    Sex offenders and child molesters   should have their thing chopped off permanent!  ( when the evidence is 100% with out a doubt guilty .  Chop it off !

    1. skipper112 profile image61
      skipper112posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      nice thought but ( choping his willy off ) has not stoped the person offending again, they still molest in a different way. But even that will not stop these sick people should be in jail for life, and NEVER released, if released they will offend again.
      It is sad that a child has to be abused first, so the offender can be jailed.

    2. profile image0
      Kerianneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are right. And cutting off the testicles and the penis would serve as punishment and prevent any more sexual thoughts.

  18. earnestshub profile image83
    earnestshubposted 12 years ago

    I would have a very hard time with allowing sex offenders back in to society. Most of these severely damaged individuals were victims of sex abuse themselves and beyond help as it is today.

    I would have to see a total change in the way we approach this problem before I can see any way forward for these most hated of all criminals. At this time, all we can do is keep them incarcerated for life. Chemical or physical castration will not remove the mental problems associated with their actions.

    When they get out of jail they offend again in most cases, so allowing them to be on the streets again will just lead to more children being abused.

  19. profile image50
    namewillnotbehereposted 12 years ago

    I want to start by saying I am truly sorry for anyone who has had someone in their family molested or have had to go through that. It is true that many don't change. It is true that some should be locked up for life. It is true that there are children that will suffer the rest of their lives from the mistakes that sex offenders have made. Not every sex offender is a predator. Not every offender wants to re-offend. I should know. I made this mistake. I opened a door that never should have been opened. I have seen and done things I wished to God I have never done, but I have. I am a child sex offender. I cannot change my past no matter how much I want to as I lay awake in college trying to change my life into a professional electrical engineer with tears of shame and hate for myself in my eyes. It takes courage to be able to wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and tell myself I am a good person who made some really terrible choices. I date from time to time and have even found a woman, by God's grace, who looked past my crime and saw me for me. That is a hard thing to do. Even though we are no longer together (the brake up was not about the crime), we still talk to each other. I've seen people from prison able to rebuild their marriage through treatment/therapy and it's amazing. I have also seen people come back unwilling to change and give us all a bad name. I might be a rarity but we are out there. I am actually still a virgin. I have never had sex before and I am still a sex offender. What I did was still wrong and for my safety I will not expose that. I know that you are angry. Many want us to die. I personally have had death threats. Isn't that a crime too? Does punishing someone with another crime make it even? Emotions can push us to say and do things we really don't mean or intended. Could you really live with yourself knowing that despite the crime, you killed someone and have that on your head? I served in the armed forces and I can tell you that it can tear you apart just as much as committing a crime. I am not at all whatsoever defending what I have done. What I am saying is that I am a human being. I have a father and mother too. NO offender is the same yet we are treated as such. My crime, as bad as it was, was not as bad as some of the other guys I have served with-but that doesn't matter. Sin is sin no matter how one looks at it. I paid my time and I will live the rest of my life with my memories of how stupid I was, how badly I messed up, and how much I have lost. I pray that I may someday find a woman who loves me and is able to look past my mistakes and have a family-with strict rules of course. Again, my case is different than others, which is why you cannot put us all in one category. Some of you may not care and just want me to die, but know that for thinking that, you ARE guilty of murder in your heart. You have to have a twisted mind to even comprise such an idea in your head or to 'chop a willy off'. Some of us do change when given the proper treatment. The problem is, treatment is expensive. Many cannot afford it, or they just don't care, or they are there only because they have to be there. I have told others that you get out of it what you put into it and you owe your victims, and second victims (the wives, mothers, friends, family...) to put in as much effort as possible to change. Discouragement and believing in stereotypes such as 'once a criminal always a criminal,' only reinforces and instills into offenders that they cannot change. Also, as an engineering student I challenge all of you to check your numbers and statistics. Do you know the sample space or how any of the statistics were made? If not then how do you know they are accurate and reliable? Just because the news puts out a stat doesn't make it true. It could be completely bogus. Our science is also not 100% accurate. We all know this. What would have happened if everyone believed the Earth was square without challenging it? You are all smart and bright people and I am honored to be able to be allowed back into society with a chance to change. Hate the crime, but not the people, at least not all of us. I am ashamed of what I have done and I would turn in anyone who would perform this crime. Justice is never done in prison. Prison doesn't challenge the mind and force offenders to look into their crime unless they have a treatment center in it, which I was luckily to have. Justice is being able to give back to those that we've hurt. To make their lives better somehow for what we've done to them. Only then is justice truly been done. Since I haven't had that opportunity, justice isn't yet done for me. I am hoping that some day I will be able to get a good enough income to send random payments to treatment centers for abused children. Something I can do to give back. I want it to be an unknown gift for a true gift is when you get nothing back in return. Thank you for your time and I hope that anyone whom has been a victim or second victim can be able to push forward and be free from the pain. I am sorry that you have had to suffer and I wish there was more I could do for you.


  20. earnestshub profile image83
    earnestshubposted 12 years ago

    Unknown name I am very happy to hear that there is treatment out there that works even for some. You are right of course death threats are an emotional response.
    I am in awe of your courage, enlightened by your words and impressed with the fact that you are here talking about it.

    Like many, possibly some here, I was sexually abused by a family friend as a child. It took years of psychotherapy to lift the pain.

    I gather your mistake was made at an early age and you want to get on with living a normal life.
    I don't hate you. I hate the crime, and hope you can gain a place in society.
    Please do the work to reinstate your self worth so that you can be happy in your life. I for one would love to see a cure work completely and take away any self loathing, which although useful in allowing you to see the horrid pain you have caused, is useless from this point on.
    Good luck with your future, I hope you can get past it all and have a good life.

    1. profile image53
      sexoffenderposted 12 years ago

      It's a tragedy to see so many self-righteous comments from such obviously flawless individuals.  I confessed and plead guilty to two counts of attempted sexual abuse of a child under the age of 14 in my early twenties, which has resulted in a life of yearly punishment through registration on the Sex Offender Registry.  I have two young children and the most amazing spouse in the world.  I spend every moment of my day striving for excellence in service toward others through work, family, church, and my community.  Many of the people with whom I spend time know of my past crime and many do not.  Those who know of it are some of my closest friends with whom I spend quite a bit of time.  Those who don't know would probably be floored to learn of the awful mistakes I made those years ago. 

      I am disgusted by what I did and by what others have done and/or currently do to others.  What I have learned from my mistakes and the forgiveness I have received from those I hurt around me is there is nothing someone else can do to us to justify judgment against them because there is always something in our own lives we can focus on improving or changing for the better.

    2. AEvans profile image74
      AEvansposted 12 years ago

      I believe there are those who can change and I wish them all of the best and there are those who will not take accountability for there actions and continue with the crime. I commend those who have came on HubPages, admitted and have remorse for there mistake and are trying to move on, there isn't any reason to throw stones at everyone.

    3. kmackey32 profile image63
      kmackey32posted 12 years ago

      Well I believe the victim lives with it there entire life so the person who did it should also have to live with it....

      1. lyndre profile image61
        lyndreposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I have fought the demons in my head for many years, after being a male victim of sexual abuse.

        Finally 2 days ago after 43 years I reported it to the police.

        I know the chance of a conviction may be slim after such a long time, but he will know that I am no longer going to let him walk about, without trying to get the justice I deserve, and free myself from my demons.

        1. lone77star profile image75
          lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Lyndre, good show for stepping forward and reporting it to the police.

          But the only way to be free of the demons is to forgive completely. Most people who say they forgive likely don't really do this. How can I say this? Because they keep talking about it and ranting about the hurt caused by those past acts.

          True forgiveness is about breaking the chains of resentment completely and cleanly. This includes taking responsibility (100%). If you give responsibility to the perpetrator, you lose. Remember what the wise man said, that only the truth will set you free.

    4. cindi h profile image60
      cindi hposted 12 years ago

      Not having had any experience with this issue on a personal level, I have had the unpleasant knowledge of someone else's experience. Let me tell you, the total devastation this horrendous act brings about can never ever be forgiven, by humans. Let God do the forgiving, not me. I've witnessed a loving devoted family utterly destroyed by some sick lunatics perverse desire or whatever you would call it, compulsion?, need?, craving?
      Answer me this?  Would your behavior have stopped had you not been caught? It seems to me that the only time these offenders repent and 'find God' is when they are caught!! I don't know that it's possible to change the very fabric of one's mind and thought process, so I would never believe in 'reformation'.

    5. theirishobserver. profile image60
      theirishobserver.posted 12 years ago

      Normally sex offenders are seperated from the general prison population so how did you meet them?

    6. MelissaBarrett profile image59
      MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

      I actually do believe its possible for sex offenders to change.  If they really want to.  Therapy is a wonderful thing.  The choice to forgive them is up to their victims, not to society in general. So yes, they can be forgiven as well.

      With that said, I believe Nathaniel Hawthorne had it right. If allowed in society (even reformed) they should be marked.  Reform is statistically unlikely and those who have completed a program know this and also know they are likely to repeat, even if they really don't want to.  If they have truly reformed and understand the damage that they caused, then they shouldn't object to a visible tattoo or some such.  The smart ass in me says right in the middle of the forehead would be great.

    7. lone77star profile image75
      lone77starposted 12 years ago

      What is the effect of "not forgiving?" Such resentment is a ball and chain. Being a victim is not pretty. The rage within the victim has "perpetrator" written all over it. And the demons of the perpetrator have "victim" written all over them. The only way out of that prison is simply to walk away from it. But for so many, the prison sticks to them.

      Why did the great Nazarene teacher talk about turning the other cheek? It wasn't about masochism! It was about humility, but also responsibility.

      What would happen if the victim gave the perpetrator zero responsibility for the awful act, but took all of it for themselves? Does this free the perpetrator of responsibility? Of course not! But what is "holding a grudge?" And how do you free yourself from it and the painful burden attached to it? The clues are right here, above.

      1. nightwork4 profile image60
        nightwork4posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        you talk about the burden of holding a grudge. what burden? i have no problem hating someone who is a sex offender and i promise, it is no burden at all. forgiving people like them is not only foolish but it makes no sense . forgiving someone is cool, if the person did something minor or if it wasn't on purpose but if someone harms my family, forgiveness will be the least of their worries.

      2. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 12 years agoin reply to this


        In the spiritual realm this was well written.  Jesus and God not only wants us to forgive but also to forget.  Sadly for me this has always been a struggle and I dare say it will surely be one of the things I'll be judged on.  Still I compliment your writing skilll.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image58
          Evolution Guyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          U R burning then? How sad. sad

          Oh well. UR choice. sad

          Take off the mask, Like wot u lied u wer doing. Komplimetz on ur riting innit,

    8. profile image49
      bobby1475posted 11 years ago

      Forgiveness for a Sex Crime, Never, Forgiveness for Murder, Perhaps
      I believe in forgiveness, because if we really look inside ourselves we all have at least a few little dark secrets we would prefer no one else knew.  I think we should forgive murders, drug dealers, and others should they change their lives and show remorse for their crimes. I also believe we should forgive Sex Offenders in the same manner.
      The Sex Offender Registry is a stain on the reputation of the United States of America. We are privileged to live in the one country that people from all over the world envy.  However, our country has made a few mistakes throughout its history and with laws like the Sex Offender Registry; it continues to make some of those same mistakes.
      During the civil war, we freed the slaves but restricted their freedom by restricting where they could live, and work. Many thought nothing of hanging a black man or raping a black woman. In short, they were free but chained in bigotry and hate. Sounds like The Sex Offender Registry to me.
      During the Second World War as we fought Nazi Germany, we imprisoned all of the American Japanese, men, women, and children. We put them in constriction camps forbidding them from living them in their own homes when there was no proof that they were any danger to society. Sounds like the Sex Offender Registry to me.
      During the 1960’s when the blacks stood up for their rights. following the example of Gandhi in peaceful non-violent demonstrations. Most whites stood by and did nothing, some whites stood up and said no and some of them like many more of the blacks lost their lives. Then finely when scale of blindness was removed from Washington’s eyes, the civil rights bill was at long last signed. Sounds like when at long last The Sex Offender Registry will be repealed.
      What I see in the three examples here is prejudice of a segment of our society through ignorance, false or tainted information regarding them. I see the failure of all of us to learn from history. I see complacency, “If it doesn’t affect me then it is not my problem” I see innocent families members of sex offenders dying. I see politicians using The Sex Offender Registry to further their careers by removing all of the civil rights of Sex Offenders insuring that they cannot speak for themselves through voting and other non-violent means. I see the news media failing to report in a fair and balanced manner all sides of the Sex Offender registry story. I see America my country looking a lot like Nazi Germany, and I weep.
      Will you stand up with me to abolish this stain on the reputation of America, will you say no to The Sex Offender Registry, Will you say no to the unjustified lifetime punishment for crimes already paid for. Let us put focus more on the victims of sex crimes lets help them recover and let us help the offender reform.  If your answer is yes, write your congressional representative and stand up for a forgiving America.

      1. profile image52
        passingthewordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Can Sex offenders be rehabilitated? Well think of this. If you are a guy, If you get locked away from women for twenty years, would you want women more or less? I am sure that you  would be thinking about women everyday just waiting for the day you would get released.
        Child molesters are sick in the head and should be sent to the father for judgment.
        Matthew {18:6} But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

        Deut. 22:25-27). "But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26"But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27"When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her,"

        1. profile image52
          hutch79posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I just wanted to add to your Matthew 18:6 insert. There is an important piece of this scripture that is left out, here - Matthew 18:3-5 "Verily I say unto you Except ye be converted, and BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter the Kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the Kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me."
          I have a brother who made a bad decision earlier in his life that will affect him forever as long as he is alive and I have talked to him a handful of times about it. He wouldn't harm a hair on anyone's head and is a very giving, a loving husband and father and tries very hard to leave his past where it is. Society says no forgiveness for certain crimes but our Father has the final say. He knows our hearts like no one else does. I have a 4 1/2 year old daughter and fully aware of the dangers out there. I would never put her in a dangerous situation. but it doesn't feel right to hold one's past against them forever and not let them have a chance at a new life.

        2. profile image53
          biblemanposted 11 years agoin reply to this


          seems to me you are being very hypocritical. How can you quote scriptures and yet be so heartless towards others? It is interesting to me that it almost seems like a new "Witch Hunt". Lets test them out and condemn them regardless.  namewillnotbehere seems to be a very bright young man who took the risk to make a statement and own up to what he has done. That is not a trait of a criminal, but of a man with a repentant heart who wants to give back to society. By condemning people like that you could be condemning yourself. Who knows what kind of talents he can provide to society. As an engineer he could invent something that just may save your life. 

          cindi h
          It is never easy to see someone suffer so much. I don't know if you believe in God, but from the way you sound, it seems that your anger is causing you to forget something. Jesus forgave you for all of your failures, imperfections, and screw ups. Why would this be any different? Saul who was later named Paul, a disciple, killed Christians, then later went out and preached the gospel. How we easily forget our own mistakes and even unreported criminal actions when it is so easy to see it in someone else, especially in a sex offender, where the media makes even the smallest incident into a predatory offense. In a Biblical sense we are all just as guilty as the sex offender regardless of how we feel about that. We all have our own issues and we will be judged when we die.

          Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, His judgment of us will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.

          1. profile image52
            passingthewordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ok bibleman, let this guy live in your house, in your neighborhood. See if you change your mind about this. Your thought frame is the reason there are so many repeat offenders. If we would do what God said to do with these people, our children would be much safer.
            These people’s forgiveness and salvation is not up to me. I am giving you my opinion and where I base my opinion from. If God wants to forgive this person it is up to Him, But God gave us a job( us meaning the judicial system) to send these people to Him for judgment.
            Bibleman, instead of worrying about this child molester. You should worry and pray for the one who was raped. Hopefully they have not committed suicide like most rape victims do.

            1. profile image53
              Clementheartposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              passingtheword "Hopefully they have not committed suicide like most rape victims do."
              Do you always make such ridiculous generalizations.  I work in the mental health field. I not only have met literally hundreds of rape survivors but am a survivor of rape/molestation by 18 different perpetrators since the age of 6.
              According to you I should be dead several times over.   Human beings are wired for survival. Though if we do not get the right kind of help, Therapy, medications. Education. Life can be hell.

              1. profile image52
                passingthewordposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Thirty-two percent of the abused children had attempted suicide, and 43% had thought about suicide since they were sexually abused and 13% succeeded in suicide.
                This is bad enough. Why should the victim  suffer and the offender not?
                Why are you offended? Those 18 men who hurt you should get the death penalty so they can't do it again. If they are guilty the courts need to get rid of. these people.

    9. DON BALDERAS profile image69
      DON BALDERASposted 11 years ago

      Abuse is abuse, no matter what. For the person to be forgiven, YES. It will take time to heal the abused. But the scars though will remain alive and haunting the abused ones.


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