Jesus not God according to Bible

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Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years ago
Peace Christian freindz!

Can any Christian Answer the following Questions?

1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not.
YES, NO, NOT SURE

2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not.
YES, NO, NOT SURE

3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
YES, NO, NOT SURE

4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood.
YES, NO, NOT SURE

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged.
YES, NO, NOT SURE

6. God can't be tempted....but Jesus was tempted by the devil.
YES, NO, NOT SURE
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Jesus who?
  God who?
  What do you "imagine" them to be?
  Are you expecting folks to offer that which they "imagine?"
  Hmmm?
  Qwark
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus = Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Mary, Christ
  
  God = Father
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Why did you offer those as answers?
  They are just trite religious opinions based on fairytale.
  If you want people to take you seriously,
  Plsss...Get real!
  Qwark
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Relax Mr\Ms Ahmad....Mr qwark is only pretending to be a ba@t#rd...
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Friend this is not a fairy tale, I will prove every thing from the Bible with exact chapters and verses, right?
  
  Perhaps you might not answer it, thats why for you it may be un-interesting. BUT for those who want to seek TRUTH, these are the Questions of concern.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Pls offer just one (1) "truth" from the fairytale bible.
  There is no one alive today who can do that!
  All you can do is offer what is written in a book that has been so corrupted by time and interpretation that there isn't a word of it that can be considered to be "credible."
  You use the word "prove" and you will do that with words in biblical chapters and verses.
  If you want folks to take you seriously, you have to get "real."
  So far you impress me as being an easily led follower.
  Tch, tch.
  Qwark
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are an Athiest. Anyway, these questions are for Christians.
  
  For you, Bible may be fairy tale and unrealistic BUT for Christians it is the word of God.
  
  So i think you are commenting on a wrong forum.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahamd"
  There you go! Why do you presume I'm an atheist just because I disagree with you?
  First, lets get this straight,I am not an atheist, agnostic, deist or a believer in fairytale divinities.
  Ahmad this "forum" isn't just for believers in religious fiction. You may write in the "religion and philosophy" category but all of us have an opportunity to respond. Correct?
  If you can't put up with the heat-in-the-kitchen, don't come in the kitchen.
  You don't even "KNOW" what this "god" thing is that you tout as being real.
  Your imagination has run over your ability to be rational.
  You are a "follower" who's beliefs in this "god" thing are based upon "ZILCH."
  ...just tellin' it as I see it.
  Qwark
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NO! Actually you have the same point as I have that the Bible is not 100% the word of God and it has been corrupted.
  
  You said that it is not credible, I said that it may not be credible for you or me BUT for Christians, it is credible.
  
  Hope you understand my point.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Of course I understand your point that that which is "imagined" is credible for "christians."
  In other words "christians" just "imagine" this "god" thing that is created in a corrupted book called the bible.
  Got'cha!
  Makes sense to me.
  Qwark :
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the Bible is more of the word of God that the Quran, to me the Quran is 100% corrupt and is not the last word of God either. The Book of Morman is the last word of God. And Ahmad your rabbid hatred of Jesus and Christians show's up your thinking. You still fail to prove the Quran is last word og God because you cannot the Mormans trumped Mohammed.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just curious Qwark what do you believe?
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian:
  That's rather vague.
  What do you mean what do I believe?
  I believe in many things i.e. the sun will rise from the east, the earth will meet my every step on level ground etc., etc..
  Be more specific pls. I have an idea about what you have in mind but I want to see it in print.
  TY
  Qwark :
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beyond the physical fact of your parents, From where did you originate, and what happens after your bag of flesh dies?
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  psycheskinnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You might want to start a new thread on this, it is a new topic.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian:
  Ty.
  I originate in the same manner and in the same place all other life does on this planet.
  Some sort of "sexual" act happens. The result culminating in the creation of whatever form of life participated in the sexual act.
  I originated, from an event called the "Big Bang." I am the result of serendipitous physics and when my "bag-of-flesh" dies, it will return to the same elements from which it was created i.e. "stardust." What else?
  Qwark :
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you believe in the "Big Bang Theory", How can you know that is the truth? What facts have you convinced of this Theory?
  
  It seems that this school of thought is just conjecture also. There are no stellar facts that prove it to be true is there? Isn't it all Hypothesis?
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian:
  It certainly is just theory.
  Until it can be proved, it will remain so.
  I have more faith in the theory of the "Big Bang" than I do in there being a metaphysical "Daddy" out there which has a moment of concern about us cosmic bacteria.
  Man is an infant trying to understand all that surrounds it.
  "It" is abjectly ignorant but "its" potential is unlimited.
  It may be that the TOE ( theory of everything) may have the answers, but at this moment in our evolution we are much to immature a conscious species to be able to "learn" and make meaning of all that we exist within.
  The fairytale of god/s is but an indication of human incipience. We are yet too new and too confused to be taken seriously in our attempts to adapt and survive as nature requires.
  This inane but deadly "god" concept just may be the straw-that-broke-the-camels-back in ref to our success as a species.
  Yes, I'll take the theory of the Big Bang over the theory of there being a cosmic "big daddy."
  Qwark :
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all, it is a theory with a lot of supporting evidence. Of course, there may be a difference between believing in it and understanding it.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was watching a news comentary that addressed the changing face of Scientific belief. On the History channel it reported that the Scientific community is changing its stance from Evolution to Creationism. But, they ascribe that we are transplanted from another intellegent source from outer space. Alien seeding of the Earth. Is that true?
  And for anyone I discuss theology with, Please do not take me in an offensive manner. I just am curious how you believe what you believe.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Yes, television programs are always true.
  
  Not according to any evidence. The assumption of Panspermia begs the question of where did the aliens originate?
  
  I tend to understand rather than to believe. Big difference.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yet you BELIEVE that you understand.
  Might be the same thing?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, yet it isn't the same thing, unless you believe it to be rather than understanding it isn't.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm! Do you really believe sun will rise from the east? why?
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  If I have to answer that question for you I'd have to imagine that you currently exist in the "stone age."
  Now, Ahmad:
  Be honest pls.
  Why do you believe in this god/allah myth.
  Is it out of the realm of possibility for you to offer anything but "opinion/conjecture?"
  I think it is.
  Qwark :
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  psycheskinnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude, really? We see it happen every day, that's why.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Qwark why do you see it as your personal mission to interogate anyone who professes to have a faith or a opinion about God?
  
  As you have pointed out several times your own opinion .ie. fairytales, or imaginary characters, then be adult enough to allow others to express their's.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As usual Ahmad your knowledge of tjhe bible is indeed corrupt I hope you know the book of hearsay the Quran better because it is pure HEARSAY.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not.
  YES that is true according to Revelations Even Jesus does know the end of times. Only God the Father knows.
  
  2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not.
  YES That is true. Jesus says he can do only what the Father gives him the power to do.
  
  3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
  YES that is true
  
  4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood.
  None of these is exactly correct. Jesus, just as humans, was Flesh and Spirit. But now he is transformed into his eternal form of a glorified body, but the Bible says that we will be transformed into a glorified and perfected body.
  
  5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged.
  No one is greater than God True. I dont understand the part about the acknowledged part.
  
  6. God can't be tempted....but Jesus was tempted by the devil.
  YES that is true. But, God was challenged by Satan and God has given Satan a time to prove his challange.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So Do you still think Jesus was God? or a prophet sent by God?
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why everyone thinks that Christians believe that Jesus is the Abba Father. Jesus is my Savior and the Son of God. I know the difference between God the Father and my Savior Jesus.
  
  I was created by the Father, Redeemed by the Son, and continually call out to be directed by the Holy Spirit.
  
  Christianity, has been lumped under one big label.
  
  But, just as with Islam there are differing schools of thought and arguements about doctrine amoung the vastly different denominations.
  
  I am very contriversial to many indoctrinated Christians because of what I get from reading the Bible and the understanding I recieve in the Spirit.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ---> Well in Islam, we have different schools of thought BUT our basics of faith are the SAME.
  
  All the prophets stressed on the concept of 1 God. The first commandment of the Jews is: "Thou shall not take any god except One God" [Deuteronomy 6:4]. Jesus is reported to have said: The Lord God, the Lord is One" [Mark 12:29]. Similarly, God says in the Quran "Your God is One God; there is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" [Quran 2:163].
  
  ---> Regarding Jesus being the son of God, in fact the terms “father”and “son” were used metaphorically, not literally. Son indicated a righteous person, as this verse makes clear:
  
  "Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God." (Mathew; 5:9).
  
  If you are a righteous person then you are also a son of God. Similarly, the term “father” was used by the Hebrews to indicate the Spiritual Father, not the literal father. For about 400 years, the Christians believed Jesus to be just a prophet. It was later that the Church adopted the pagan concept of “son of God.”
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7bU7BH91C0
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLqA8-uZl5w
  
  Read II Samuel 7:13-14 or I Chronicles 22:10:
  "He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son..."
  
  ---> It will be confusing if you read Jeremiah 31:9:
  "1 am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn."
  
  While In Exodus 4:22:
  "And thou [Moses] shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel(Jacob) is my son, even my firstborn."
  
  Now who is now the real firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?
  
  ---> People can be children of God; Read Deuteronomy 14:1.
  
  . "Ye are the children of the Lord your God."
  
  "Son of God" is the same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Be honest pls.
  Why do you believe in this god/allah myth.
  Is it out of the realm of possibility for you to offer anything but "opinion/conjecture?"
  I think it is.
  Qwark :
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Allah is the creator of everything in this universe. He is the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.
  
  Answer just 1 question....Prophet Muahhamd was an illiterate man, how he knew all the scientific facts mentioned in the Quran which was revealed to him from God BUT are discovered recently by the scientists?
  
  http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php
  
  Please go and read the book "The Bible, The Qur'an and Science" by Dr. Maurice Bucaille.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  You absolutely refuse to answer my question! Why is that?
  All you offer is opinion i.e. "Allah is the creator of everything in this universe. He is the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad."
  Be a thoughtful and considerate fellow and try to answer this for me: Why do you believe in this god/allah thing?
  Pls try to answer me in other than opinion or conjecture...unless you have some new and fantastic empirical evidence for me to consider that would make your opinion worthy of consideration.
  TY.
  Qwark :
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is neither conjecture nor my opinion BUT its all there mentioned in the Quran. God is the creator of everything.
  
  You are desperate to know the existence of God, right? Through SCIENTIFIC FACTS mentioned in the Quran, i will prove to you the existance of Allah + Quran is indeed the word of God, i.e. to kill two birds with one stone.
  
  Are you Ready?
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  You ARE just a highly PROGRAMMED believer in myth and superstition.
  you are not able to separate-the-wheat-from-the-chaff.
  THERE IS NO "PROOF" ( I don't think you understand the word)of ANYTHING that is written in any monotheistic scripture. That FACT is far beyond your ROBOTIC ability to understand.
  Religious programming has frustrated,within you,the human characteristic: curiosity.
  You exist as a religious "bot" whose program for learning is incomplete.
  There is no possibility of it being repaired and improved.
  A catholic bishop once said: (paraphrase)...give me a child from birth to 7 yrs of age, and I'll give you a catholic forever. Islam programs its youth thus.
  You are a PERFECT (an absolute) example of that kind of religious programming.
  I have just added you to my list of those who have nothing credible to consider or respond to.
  Tsk, tsk...
  Qwark
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad, still waiting for you to prove the Quran is last word of God, yet you say nothing because your lies caught you out as did The Mormans who DID recieve the LAST word from God.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Qwark all Ahmed can do is make incomplete statements, he has nothing credible to offer. He makes great statements ' THAT IS IS SO EASY TO PROVE' but when asked to do just that he is like a school boy with his hand in the cookie Jar. He fall back on the same old worn out sayings and FAILS to do as he promised.
  Yes mate I am Catholic but I belive all religions have the right to live in peace. Qwark thank you we both know Ahmed is good at starting insults but the knowledge to enable him to prove his point is sadly lacking.
  Have a good day Qwark and may your God go with you.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed as qwak said be honest please you do not give any proof of your statements. Give proof ( as you are using the Bible) give proof from Bible.
  
  I am still waiting for you to give me the proof you say you have to prove the Quran, and prove Mohammed did get the last word from God ( and NOT the Mormans)
  
  I know you lack the proof to support your stupid statements Ahmed so it looks like I will wait untill HELL FREEZES OVER for any answer from you.
  I guess you just use cheep lies then hide behind your cheep uniformed mouth. Get real Ahmad put up or shut up, WERE IS THE PROOF YOUR BIG MOUTH SAYS YOU HAVE
  
  are you able to do it Ahmed...................................... I'm waiting
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exodus 4-22 "So you shall say to Pharaoh: Thus says the Lord:Israel is my son, my first born." opps Ahmad.
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  jomineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is still your beliefs only Ahamed. and people always make mistakes when they act on emotions.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christiansister
  
  4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
  
  While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.
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  Ruben Riveraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We're all part of God
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ________________
  I don't believe in the Muslim bible, but I know Yahshua (Jesus) was not God. His name was also not Jesus.
  
  This was a trick of Paul.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Question (1) you are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
  Question (2) You are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
  Question (3) You are wrong God is God Jesus is Son of God.
  Question (4) God is 100% Spirit Jesus is 100%Spirit,But took on a Fleshly Body as God He could do this.
  Question (5) You are wrong God and Jesus are one and the same.
  Question (6) You are wrong Jesus permitted satan to try.
  
  Answer me this. What is the one thing God can never do?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful logic of contradiction.
  
  Exist.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you don't really want the truth you only wish to spout garbage.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Contradictions aren't truth, they're just contradictions.
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  Momma Miaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God will not take ones free will ! Although he could.......
  God will not take back his promise.........although he could
  God can't stand his name taken in vain ......nor can I
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  jomineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  try square circle or parallel line that meet
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luvpassionposted 14 years ago
Perhaps you wouldn't mind giving answers from a Muslim point of view...just to make the conversation more interesting... :thanks.
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Home Girlposted 14 years ago
I love Hubpages, you can always meet interesting ... people(what do you think?), here...
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  kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's probably worth popping some popcorn to have while following this thread
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qwarkposted 14 years ago
Jesus? Jesus who?
How can one consider sumthin' no one knows anything about? Hmmm?
Qwark
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psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago
Why is it so important whether Jesus was literally God, or a son of God and a prophet? Does it change the message? Does it change modern morality? Or does it just give two essentially identical religions a reason to indulge in conflict over an abstract argument?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sister it is very important. Ascribing partners with 1 God and believing that he begets or is begotten is the biggest sin which God will never ever forgive. This is called SHIRK.
  
  YES it has changed the whole message and morality. when you believe that Jesus is the son of God and he already paid for the SINS of mankind and Christians keeps on commiting vices like adultery, murder, rape etc etc and all is justified bcoz Jesus was crucified on the cross for mankind. This is absolute absurdness.
  
  Some people think that since Jesus (PBUH) had no human father then God must be his father. The Quran rejects this view. The position of Jesus with God is comparable to the position of Adam with God. Just because Adam had no human parent does not mean we should call him the Son of God.
  
  "Lo! the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (Quran 3:59)
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The vices that you speak of being commited by christians are commited by Muslims as well correct? Or, have Muslims perfected themselves to the degree that they no longer sin and are in no need of Grace?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ohhhh my God! when did i say that Muslims are PIOUS? you are absolutely right we Muslims might be more sinful than any other humans BUT the point here is that we Muslims believe that whatever we do, we will be accountable for everything in the hereafter while Christians believe that they are not accountable bcoz Jesus already piad for their sins on the cross, right?
  
  May God almighty guide all of us to the true religion. Aameen.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary, christians are called to strive to avoid being sinful. Because Jesus was crucified does not excuse us from being accountable. It makes us more accountable for willful sinning.
  And we are called to repent and strive daily to be more like Jesus.
  But, because we cannot achieve Holy Righteousness on our own account. We can confess that Jesus did and turn our hearts over to him and share in his inheritence.
  How is it that Muslims believe that they become forgiven, or how do they gain acceptence into the Kingdom?
  
  Living by the Scales means what exactly?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree follow the only God that said he loves you, not Allah but My Lord Jesus Christ.
  There is no were in the Qural that says Allah 'loves you' how sad.
  Christians ARE accontable at Judgement day when we die. But unlike Muslims we can't do a act of terror blow our selves up and get a FREE ticket to 'paridise' and 72(sic) virgins. To me that is so sick.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said to LOVE? Read then:
  
  ---> According to the Bible, the mission of Jesus was to spread enmity which we MUSLIMS believe is an absolute fallacy and blasphemous.
  
  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother. (Matthew 10:34-35)
  
  If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
  
  skipper I hope you become a good disciple of Jesus. LOL
  
  Now Now Read what your Living Lord Jesus, the maker of Heavens and Earth, said in the Old Testament:
  
  Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each kill his brother and friend and neighbour. (Exodus 32:27)
  
  Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
  
  However, in the cities of the nations the lord your GOD is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." (Deuteronomy 20:16)
  
  Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl (VIRGIN) who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31: 17-18)
  
  ---> Jesus (Christian God) wants 32 virgin women for himself!! LOL!!
  
  The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.............16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32. (Numbers 31:32-40)
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  libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You realize that the Qu'ran is 100 times worse in everything you've brought up! LOL!!! I've quoted quite a few in the past! But I find it useless anymore! What's the point in pointing out another religion's Holy book??? It does you no good except probably makes you look bad!
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  jomineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  try this Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But Ahmed were is your EASY PROOF of the Quran being the last word of God, looks like the Mormans even trumped Mohammed. Now I know why you have shut up. score Mormans 1 Islam nil
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
Perhaps the truth can only be found in his beard?? Oh what wisdom might it contain?

(the eyes look a little sleepy though.. could be the heroin??)
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whoz this IDIOT?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  just another Muslim a true beliver
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Home Girlposted 14 years ago
Careful, Greek One, it's a thin line...

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skipper112posted 14 years ago
Ahmad only takes parts from the Holy Bible to attempt to prove his concept of 'God'. Jesus said 'I am' God the father God the son God the holy Spirit, are ONE. I point out Allah, the Quran and Mohammed happened over 500 years after Jesus died on the Cross For All Mankind.
Allah never rescued Jesus from the CROSS ( Islamic Story not true)
All any follower of Islam ever does is to try to discredit the Holey Bible.
Lets start with the Quran, written by many people from the memory of many people after Mohammed ( who was supossed to reveal Messages from a Angel) who could not tell if what he said was corectly written down ( Mohammed could not read or write)and only after Mohammed died did the many feel safe to write down what they thought Mohammed said. Any reasonable person will see that the Quran is 100% PURE HEARSAY PERIOD.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Skipper, you are expert in lieing. Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years and it was written down during the time of prophet.
  
  So what you mean that the parts i have taken from Bible are CORRUPT because it REFUTES the divinity of Jesus, right?
  
  If Jesus is 3 IN 1, it means that Jesus was his own father and his son. Jesus prayed and worshiped himself because he was his own father? Jesus beget himself bcoz he was his own father?
  
  If Quran is not credible bcoz it was revealed 500 years after Jesus. So the same argument can be used by the Jews to say that NT is revealed 1000's of years after Moses, thats why it is not credible and only hear-say?
  
  What you say skipper?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How did the prophet know what was written when he could not read or write? Quran has no proof except Mohammed and how can Mohammed prove the Quran.?
  
  I did not say the Quran was not credible YOU DID but I will agree as you know it better than me thank you friend.
  
  As a Muslim you will NEVER understand the Holy Trinity.Becuaus you only read to find fault , not truth. I do not belive you will ever understand.
  
  I am not pointing out anything to a Jew, but a Muslim, find your own reason do not use a people Muslims HATE. I did not know I was talking to the only Muslim that dishonnores Mohammed as he HATED JEWS but you use Jews to try and make your own rules. Sorry you did not cut it.
  
  Look up 'hearsay.'
  
  What you are trying to say about the NT and Moses is just a sick joke learn the Bible before you quote about what you cannot understand. Read the Bible with a open heart and mind, look for truth, look and find the love of Jesus. No were in the Quran does Allah say he love's you my Muslim. But in The Holy Bible Jusus loves you oppen your heart and mind to the love of Jesus, look for truth not fault, be honest in your reading of the Holy Bible.
  
  What say you Ahmad??
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ---> Yes Prophet was illiterate and could not read or write. It was Angel Gabriel who ordered him to RECITE RECITE RECITE. Do you understand the word RECITE? He didn't say to read or write.
  
  When the angel Gabriel appeared to prophet and ordered him to "Iqra!" (read, recite, repeat, proclaim). Muhammad (PBUH), in his terror thought he was being asked to read, so he stammered: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel again ordered him to "Iqra!" Muhammad (PBUH) again replied: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel now took a firm hold of him and commanded him "Iqraa in the name of Allah who created!". Now Muhammad (PBUH) began to understand that he was not being asked to read, but to recite, to repeat. He began to repeat after him, and Gabriel revealed to him the first verses of the Qur'an:
  
  "Read (Iqra)! In the name of your Lord who created,
  Created man from a clot.
  Read (Iqra)! And your Lord is the Most Bounteous,
  Who teaches by the pen,
  Teaches man that which he knew not."
  (Qur'an 96:1-5)
  
  ---> MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Christians have difficulty in understanding this PAGAN concept of TRINITY.
  
  "Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third.
  
  Each of these persons is God.
  
  Christ is his own father and his own son.
  
  The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.
  
  The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after.
  
  Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son.
  
  The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two.
  
  So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God.
  
  According to the celestial multiplication table,
  
  once one is three, and
  
  three time one is one, and
  
  according to heavenly subtraction
  
  if we take two from three, three are left.
  
  The addition is equally peculiar:
  
  if we add two to one we have but one.
  
  Each one equal to himself and to the other two.
  
  Nothing ever was,
  
  nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and
  
  absurd than the dogma of the Trinity."
  
  (Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67).
  
  ---> skipper you are EXPERT in LYING. All the chapters of the Quran starts with the love of Allah (except one chapter), i.e "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST BENEFICENT, MOST MERCIFUL". Go and read Quran.
  
  skipper I (Muslims) respect Jesus, Christ, the son of Mary, more than any Christian in this world. Please don't COMPELL me to write those verse of the Bible which will BURST your mind and then you will NEVER EVER say that Jesus of the Bible is LOVE. It is because of these VIOLENT, PORNOGRAPHIC, FOOLISH, UNSCIENTIFIC, verses that we Muslims believe Bible has been corrupted to a large extent. and it can never be the word of God revealed to Jesus Christ.
  
  what you say skipper should i EXPOSE you by writing those verses of the Bible in the forum?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  simple you are so full of your hatred for Christians you will try any FOUL DIRTY LIE to try and make yourself look good. Please expose, make yurself out to be a bigger fool than you already are. After all I do not think anybody belives you anyway, and you are used to quoting corrupt words from the Quran, so DO YOUR WORST.
  Still waiting for to prove ( EASY EASY YOU SAID ) the Quran is the last word from God, hey wait a sec its The Book of Morman and Joseph Smith that got the last words from God.
  
  oh dear me Mohammed trumped again.
  Lets see Bible 1st Mormans Last so Mohammed is left in the middle, oh well such is life
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skipper112posted 14 years ago
Ahmad how can you prove anything from the Holy Bible, as you do not read the Holy Bible with Love and understanding as a Muslim you read the Bible with distrust and hate, so quote from what you CAN understand because your Quotes are so wrong , dare I say stupid and illinformed ok, you follow the Quran so talk to Muslims as your words here are from la la land and remember the Quran at best is pure hearsay. Do not take my word for it look up hearsay !!
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manlypoetrymanposted 14 years ago
HHHMMMM....I read it differently in Hebrews....the first chapter. Pretty much-God calls Jesus a God. But then someone would find a way to refute that part. Watch...here goes:
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So please will you tell me where in the WHOLE Bible Jesus said that "I am God" or "Worship me"?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  UUUH...my Bible Learning Theology days are much further behind me. And I'm lucky on most days to remember my sack lunch...let alone...a world of facts. But...I think I made a reference to something that bears scrutiny...more than your ramblings to try and start a great debate do. Jesus spoke from knowledge to those who would listen...knowing in advance...that there would be doubters. If you come from a world of believe in him...many things begin to come clear.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks skipper for calling us TERRORISTS and showing your TRUE colors. Thanks again.
  
  Friends skipper is challenging me to quote PORNOGRAPHIC verses from the bible BUT I will not quote any of the verses here because its not the right forum. BUT i would like to SUGGEST every Christian in this forum to read Ezekiel 23 (especially verse 17-20). For now this 1 chapter would be enough to make skipper HORNY. LOL
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes I challenging you Ahmet to back up your mouth with PROOF back up your foul mouth.
  Give the proof you said you have to prove the Quran.
  Give the proof that Mohammed got the last word from God, he did not.
  Mormans got the last word from God.
  Your stupid sick insults are what I expect for a person that follows the unproven book of hate the Quran, you even said the Jews are protected by Islam you are such a low foul lier Ahmed.
  PROVE YOUR STATEMENTS
  And I do not call you terrorists ISLAM did that you poor misguided fool.
  
  FRIENDS all I have ever asked Ahmad to do is 2 things,
  1. Prove the Quran is the last word of God.
  2. Prove Mohammed was the last (so called) messenger from God and that Mohammed got the last word from God'
  Now 1st Ahmad must prove that the Morman Church is untrue, as the Mormans state ( with good reason) that they recieved the last word from God and not Mohammed.
  
  FRIENDS notice Ahmed never will answer this with proof because such proof Ahmad does not have, so he cannot do anything except insult , and HELL WILL FREEZE BEFORE AHMAD ANSWERES BOTH QUESTIONS
  
  up to you now Ahmad back up your big mouth with FACTS ifyou can????
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey there skipper. What proof would you accept exactly?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not remember a Christian saying that Ahmed, must be another of your STOCK MADE UP LIES about all one can expect from you.
  
  Mohammed COMMANDS you. SO SAD
  
  Jesus loves you. MUCH BETTER.
  
  Prophets in Bible get visit's from God.
  
  Mohammed only gets a Angel ( so sad)
  Why if Mohammed is a true prophet, did Mohammed only get a (unproven ) Angel??
  
  Greek One
  I think Ahmed hates Christians so much he has to try and prove Christians wrong. That is so sad, because you cannot have a good debate when someone is so full of hatered.
  
  peace Greek One
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NONE of the Prophets got VISITED from GOD. NONE NONE NONE.
  
  Gabreil (who you know as the HOLY GHOST) acted as an intermediary b/w God and his Prophets.
  
  This forum is a witness that I haven't used HATE remarks against any1. Despite you called me TERRORIST.
  
  Jesus clearly said in the BIBLE that to become my DISCIPLE, you must HATE your mother, father, daughter. Howz that the Jesus of the BIBLE is LOVE, skipper?
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NONE of the Prophets got VISITED from GOD. NONE NONE NONE.????
  
  well one NONE was enough to make yourself heard man...easy...christ and moses heard directly from god is belief of christians and judaism...now muslims belief it was from gabriel...so three times None wont make christians change their belief and five times YES GOD DID wont belief yours...chill...
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  realy and Moses never got a visit from God via the 'Burning Bush' you are so full of lies can you even lie straight in bed Ahmad?
  
  still waiting for you to answer my 2 questions , but HELL will freeze FIRST because you cannot prove your own mouth
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  __________
  No where in Hebrew does it say Jesus or Yahshua is God
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thank you Deborah, I know you are Jewish and I am Christian, but I respect you and your beliefs, as you respect mine. But I do object to Ahmad saying that in the Quran it states ' Islam protectes the Jews' I do not like his foul lies ether, thank you so much if you say it is not in Hebrew I accept that and as I thought it was just another lie from Islam.
  ty Deborah and may your God walk with you.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ____________
  You are right, they never protected the Jews. They have always been the enemy of the Jews.
  There are statements made that they would "Utterly Destroy the Jews"
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  manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your opinion...I do not know how much further it has to written to get someone's attention: Hebrews 1:8 (going on from a reference made in Hebrews 1:1): "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever...and then in Hebrews 1:10: "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the Earth. These are just some of the scriptures floating around in the first of Hebrews...
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
Why do you concern yourself with what others believe.. or try to negate their beliefs? Why not share and champion your faith and not focus on the ultimately fruitless pursuit of criticizing or proving false another?

Why not start threads, or perhaps even better.. a HUB.. on the virtues of Islam?.. instead of taking the negative road of trying to prove 'wrong' a different faith?

Are you a Muslim simply because you are not a Christian.. or are you a Muslim because you believe in the virtues of Islam? If the former if the case, then the basis of your faith is thin.. if the later is the case, then why not share your faith and elaborate on it own virtues?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't criticized anyone's faith at all nor am i proving any1 false. All the Q i have asked are from the bible ands this is precisely what we Muslims believe about Jesus that he was one of the greatest prophets of God BUT he is not God or son of God.
  
  Understood?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh please.. what is the point of trying to show that Jesus WAS NOT God if it is not counterpoint those who believe that he WAS God?
  
  If no one thought Jesus was God, would you even raise the topic?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NO! it is not merely because of the reason that i am proving to them from the same book that he was not God from which they conclude that Jesus was God.
  
  Sorry friend, your point would have been valid if i were to prove from Quran that Jesus is not God BUT i am proving it from their own book, Bible.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but why do you seek to prove to them that their religion is wrong, instead of proving that your religion is right?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Friend R U in your senses? When did I say that their religion is wrong? I am only refering to those PAGAN doctrines which were injected by CONSTANTINE, the Roman Emperor, in the Gospels of Jesus ONLY & ONLT for POLITICAL reasons. Do you know that?
  
  Watch the CHRISTIAN made Documentary "Who Wrote the Bible".
  
  Well i kill 2 birds with 1 stone,i.e proving to them from Bible that Jesus is neither God nor son of God & proving to them that Islam is indeed the true RELIGION of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. (Peace be upon all of them)
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  proving jesus christ as no god doesnot serve any purpose...because what ever one believes works...it is at brain level...what one believes doesnot matter at all...most holy books have been proven wrong in parts or as whole by science but still people stick to it and it works for them...so ultimately one must restraint from proving because in end what we think is truth is plainly our version of truth...
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It serves. When you believe Jesus is God and SALVATION is through him, this is PURE blasphemy.
  
  Jesus was a HUMAN, a GREAT PROPHET, a MESSENGER of God, CHRIST, BUT he is not God or son of God.
  
  Ascribing PARTNERS with 1 true God and saying that he BEGETS is the BIGGEST sin that God will NEVER EVER forgive.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then exlpain how genetics, DNA, and certain Other modern day notions appear on the first page of the bible, such as cloning. All you got is some guy who disappeared off the top of a rock in Jerusalem, like some kinda oneway Captain Kirk, never to return. The whole thing will be settled when the fat lady sings. And that ain't yet.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed, you will never understand the Bible because your heart is full of hate to wards Christians.
  You insult our God jesus'
  You say Jesus was a prophet, another lie'
  You fail to understand the Gospels, because your heart if full of rabid hatred to wards Christians.
  You have no knowledge of the Bible because you try to find your own agenda and fail.
  You Quote from the Quran, a Christian cares not about the Quran. ( pure hearsay)
  To be totally honest all you do is show your HATRED to-wards Christians.
  Now prove the Quran is the words of Mohammed, if you cannot just shut your foul mouth.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ahmad usman
  
  it serves. When you believe Jesus is God and SALVATION is through him, this is PURE blasphemy.
  
  well i understand as per your definition it might be blasphemy but for 33% in the world it isn't...and why impose on others when what you are saying is based on faith?...faith can't counter faith...can it?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever I am saying or proving is from Bible not Quran, so friend your point is useless. don't mind.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well i never mind comments of people convinced about their faith...everyone has right to express it...
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  YES Most HOLY DIVINE books which were CORRUPTED by people over time for POLITICAL or other gains may have been proven false from scientific point of view.
  
  Quran is only the DIVINE book which can NEVER be corrupted and it can NEVER be proved FALSE from SCIENTIFIC point of view. This is because God says clearly in the Quran:
  
  "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption). [Al-Quran 15:9]
  
  http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php
  
  http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If your religion gives you hope and guidance and peace, then more power to you.
  
  You are obviously fully within your right to try to convince Christians, who receive spiritual guidance through our own faith, that the revisionism offered by Islam disproves the basic tenants of Christianity. Such freedom of worship and expression is a basic legacy left to us by Judeo-Christian principles. Sadly, the value of such liberties has not yet emerged in most Islamic counties
  
  I just want to point out to you that the attempt is futile, if for no other reason than the approach you take. It would be as though I tried to tell you that your understanding of Islam is incomplete and flawed because you don't have the full version of the truth offered by Ghulam Ahmad.
  
  My advice is free.. part of the Christian ethic of giving, you might say There is of course no compulsion to take it
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Greek One'
  Thank you for your words of wisdom, but Ahmad is so full of hate towards Christians he cannot help himself.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Much as you are full of hate for all Muslims. I see no difference between the two of you.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  uninvited,
  Sorry I do not hate Islam, if fact I live next door to a Islamic family and we get on fine. I do not eveh hate Ahmad , to me he is just a badly missinformed silly verry young boy that is trying to stir up trouble by insulting Christians, indead by his own words he proves his hatred but as always when asked to answer simple Questions he runs scared back to were ever he came from. Sorry hate is too good to wast on Ahmah frankly he is nor worthy of my hate.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely written.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well put.
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VOICE CIWposted 14 years ago
Ahmad Usman, 1. God is all knowing - Yes So is Jesus. 2. God is all powerful - Yes Jesus said all power is in his hand. 3, God does not have a God - Although Jesus is God, when Jesus came to redeem man, God the Father became His God. 4. God is an Invisible Spirit - Jesus is the embodiement of God, Jesus is what God looks like with a body. 5. No one is greater than God no one can direct Him - Yes Jesus acknowledged that. 6. God can't be tempted, but Jesus was - In order for Jesus to redeem man, He had to live as a man, so in His humaness Jesus had to be tempted, because we were.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)
  
  and (Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.
  
  2. While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
  
  St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
  
  3. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, in these verses Jesus does represent himself as the Son.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, does not the Son inherit what is the Father's?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  O sister, why dont you understand that the word son is not used literally in the bible. I have proved all this to you earlier.
  
  Son means a righteous person. Israel, Epraem, Solomon all are the son of God. People can be called son of God. Read Deuteronomy 14:1
  
  "And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: WORSHIP GOD, MY LORD and YOUR LORD.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (Qur'an 5:116-117)
  
  "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)
  
  "Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).
  
  They say: God hath begotten a son! - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about God what ye know not? Say: Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper. A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies. (Qur'an 10:68-70)
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I so certainly appreciate the love you must feel in trying to help me to see the truth as opposed to the "kill the infidel" point of view especially since you open yourself up to being called ugly names and criticism. I do not feel any bad feelings towards you and I understand your personal need to help people see. But, I am not a christian because the Bible tells me so. I was not raised in a christian household quite the opposite.
  Some very drastic life events have revealed my Truth to me and I call out for Wisdom and I seek Truth. I have studied with many different christian denominations and I believe that Jesus live the blameless life to be worthy of Redeeming the earth from Satan's grasp. I think many people of all religions are confused about the real truth and they fight and war over doctrines and cannot see the awesome Life our Abba Father has waiting for us and I have no uneasy feeling in my soul about my afterlife.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is the Lamb Who Is Worthy! He is my guide for how I should live my life and direct my spirit. In the Bible my DNA came alive in all my ancestors stories. Do not be confused Abraham is my Grandfather, Ishmeal is my Uncle and the Bible tells me that God was with him and turned him into a great nation. Sarah, is my Grandmother. It is sad to see the world in all its ugly hatred totally miss the mark on the one truth which is LOVE.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  christiansister, I was not raised in a christian home either. I called out to God and he revealed truth to me. God promised those who seek him with all their hearts will find him.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Woman of Courage! My Abba Father is not limited to man's ability to show me who He is.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Sisters, why don't you read the Quran to know the Real Jesus:
  
  the son of Mary,
  the messenger of God,
  the spirit of God,
  the word of God,
  the sign of God,
  Messiah Christ.
  
  The Quranic account of Jesus (PBUH) starts with the conception of Jesus (PBUH) mother, Mary, whose mother, the wife of Imran, vowed to dedicate her child to the service of God in the temple. When Mary became a woman, the Holy Spirit (the Archangel Gabriel) appeared to her as a man bringing her news of a son. We read the following dialogue in the Quran between Mary and the Angel:
  
  "(And remember O Muhammad) When the angel said, "Mary, God gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, high honored shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will".
  When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)
  
  "Then she brought him (Jesus) to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
  O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
  Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
  He (Jesus) spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
  And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
  And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! (Qur'an (Mary)19:27-33)
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am soon to embarq on a journey thru a book called "Claiming Abraham" it is a book written by a christian scholar that digs into the Bible and Qu'ran side by side. I have not recieved it yet but, it will not be long. Peace and Love Always
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well sister Best of Luck, But please please please read the Quran once in your life. It will indeed make you a firm believer in God. Peace and love to U 2.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad, We already know who Jesus is, and we are firm believers in God and his son Jesus Christ. Reading the Holy Bible has revealed to us who Jesus is. Love and blessings to you.
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  libby101aposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've read the Qu'ran more than once! I don't find any truth in it! But Peace to you Ahmad!
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed as a Christian I do not care what your Quran states. To try and prove a point useing the Quran is useless, as I am still waiting for you to prove the Quran is the word of God. ( you said you could prove the Quran) still waiting. It seams to me you must hate Christians, your whole life reloves around trying to disprove Jesus .
  
  You might be better off trying to prove the Quran was the last word from God, because The Mormans state Joseph Smith recieved the last word from God. Prove Mormans wrong, they have the last word fron God, not Mohammed.
  
  Do not know what you have proved, you cannot quote a non christian sorce, like the (unproven Quran) to a Christian as we belive nothing in the Quran. All that you have proved is Mohammed and the prople that wrote the Quran, stole ideas from the Bible, it seams to me Mormans trumped Mahammed, and the Quran coppied ideas from Bible, after all Mohammed had 500 years to make up stories from the Bible to put in Quran.
  
  I still want a answer Ahmed, every other prophet recived a visit from God , except Mohammed he only got a Angel, ( no proof) if he was visited by any body at all. Evem Mohammed's wife who was with Mohammed when he had 1 visit ( so called but unproved visit from a Angel she saw nothing)
  
  Think you had better start proveing your arguements Ahmed, prove the truth of the Quran, ( by outside proof)
  Prove Mormans wrong as they had the last word from God.
  And useing the Quran to a Christian just wastes your time, as a Christian I belive nothing in the Quran.
  
  And I belive Mohammed memorised parts of the Bible and changed just a few words to make it look like the Quran covered all religions, as stated earlier a Christian will never belive anything in the Quran as usual you wast your time, and prove Islam can only attack other faiths and is not peacefull.
  Now Ahmen prove from outside sorces the following..........
  1/ The Quran is the word of God.
  2/ Jesus is not son of God.
  3/ Mormans did not recieve the last word from God.
  4/ And please this time answer questions do not try to bring up something else.to try and hiide youe inability to answer a simple question ok.!
  5/ Answer with proof, not what you think BUT PROOF.
  One final word you know nothing about FAITH, but Jesus still loves you.
  Show me were Allah says he loves you, Allah only comands you how sad.
  
  And Ahmed you only get a distorted view of Jesus and Mary in the Quran, the Quran even gets that wrong. Give me proof Gaberial is the Holy Spirit, you even got that wrong. This is why as a Christian I find the Quran is so wrong , it is totally unbelivable.Nice try Ahmed.
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  StevenPayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed, in the last verse you quoted it says that Jesus spoke saying, "Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"
  1. Does this mean that your book of faith confirms his dying on the cross and ressurection?
  2. If Jesus is a prophet does that mean he is only a prophet and nothing more?
  3. Is it true that the Qu'ran gives it's believers the right to war with anyone one/people if they believe that those people or person is blasphemous and can only stop if the person/people surrender to the belief of the Qu'ran and it's teaching or are dead?
  4. If the Qu'ran is a peace loving faith how ever did the terrorists of 911 and every other terrorist organization call themselves Muslim?
  
  I am not trying to start an argument, only interested in learning about the Muslim faith.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Steven, Muslims state that Allah saved Jesus from the cross, and put another man is Jesus's place , and Allah took Jesusfrom the cross to save Jesus.
  
  Islam states Jesus ONLY a prophet and was not son of God.
  
  yes the Quran lets Belivers attack non belivers, it started against the Meccans.
  
  Islam says please do not blame us for 9/11 it was not Islam, if not Islam who was it?
  
  lets see what Ahmed states
  Skipper a Christian who belives in My Lord God Jesus Christ, as the only true liveing God.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. Freind Read it carefully, it says "Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I DIE (2nd coming of Jesus when he will kill the anti-chrsit and will RULE this world for 40 yers with JUSTICE and after that Jesus will die a normal death), and the day I shall be raised alive!"
  
  2. Yes Jesus is one of the mightiest prophets of God and he is the only prophet from Adam to Muhammad (Peace be upon them) who is called the messiah, Christ. BUT if you say he is God or son of God, its PURE blasphemy.
  
  3. NO! Out of 6346 verses of the Quran, only a few speaks of fighting in self defense & religious freedom. People say that we don't find Allah's love in the Quran but they don't know that they will find it in the same verses which they say instigate violence, but if they read it completely. what they do is cherry-picking and also quoting half verses and out of context.e.g
  
  “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.” [Quran 2:190-191]
  
  The next verse says: “But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” [Quran 2:192-193]
  
  Now in the above verses CRITICS only quote that Quran say :SLAY UNBELIEVERS WHERE EVER YE FIND THEM"
  
  It is a well-known fact of Islamic history, that fighting against aggressors was prohibited during the first thirteen years of the Prophet’s mission. After Muslims migrated to Medina, the verses above were revealed to enable the community to fight in self defense.
  
  Also out of 114 chapters of the Quran, 113 starts with
  
  In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, most merciful.
  
  4. Regarding 9/11, I must quote the verses of the Quran:
  
  "...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." [Quran 5:32]
  
  The value of human life is so great, that the Quran equates the taking of even one human life unjustly with the killing of all humanity.
  
  Now IF Usama bin laden did 9/11 by killing 3000 INNOCENT people, Surely God will punish him in the here-after and God clearly say that he will give fresh skin so that the person can taste the pain. So Usama can be punished only once in this world by hanging like Saddam hussain or watever, BUT God will punish him by giving him fresh skin 2999 times so that he may taste the pain again and again.
  
  BUT tell me what Hitler did and what Bush did by killing MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people in Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan? Are they Muslims?
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  StevenPayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Although I respect your response I must protest to the idea that Bush or Hitler did anything with the bible behind them. No where in the bible of Christians, be New Testament believers, can they ever say God says to slay anyone. the belief of our God states whoso ever tries to save his life shall lose it and whoso ever gives his life away gains it. The wars done in the name of the Christian God have all been wrong and done by people who pervert the word. I have a hard time finding fault in the people of the muslim faith who go forth with malice on their hearts because they are able to be backed by a faith that flat out tells them it is ok to kill, slay, unbelievers.
  My bible tells me int he book of revelation by Jesus in a vision to John to let the good be good, the bad be bad, the holy be holy and the evil be evil. Meaning, no man comes unto the father except thru me. It is not the works of any christian that brings man to salavation but Christ alone and we are to great each other with love and kindness as Christ did everyone he met. The only time he came against anyone was when he brought a whip to the temple because men had turned the house of God into a den of theives yet he still did not slay anyone.
  
  I ask you this, Do you listen to a man who claims to be the voice of God or do you listen to God himself? It is said that We all worship the same God but I disagree, my God says that the only way thru him was thru the sacrifice of his son Jesus and that the is the way the truth and the light. Not his follower Paul or John or Billy Grahm.
  
  I have another question. Everything I have ever read says that at the very least Jesus was a jew. How can you follow his teachings if he was a jew and what power would a normal man have over the anti Christ? Only God or the son of God would have the power to defeat him.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Friend Steven, the same argument which you used for Bush and Hitler can be used for Usama that he doesnt follow the teachings of Quran and is perverted. Dont wana go into details of what CRUSADERS did in Spain and Jeusalem in the name of Christianity calling themselves the HOLY WARRIORS and expelled Jews and Muslims. Spanish inquisition.
  
  Steven watch the Christian made documentary "Who wrote the bible". Init, the the early Christisns believed he was a prophet. Never forget what CONSTANTINE did in 3rd century for making Christianity official religion of ROME and Deify Jesus.
  
  Where are the ORIGINAL gospels of Jesus? whatever John, Paul, Mark wrote as the Gospels of Jesus, its not credible. The ORIGINAL gospels of Jesus are the owrd of God and we firmly believe in those books.
  
  Just google: Oldest Bible Goes Online - CNN
  
  It says that Jesus was a prophet.
  
  your Q about the End times. There is only 1 person among the prophets of God who is the messiah Christ and it is Jesus the son of Mary.
  He was a Jew by race but Muslim by faith. I can give you proofs from the Bible only if you are SINCERE.
  
  Prophet Muhammad said that Jesus will kill the anti-Christ at the gate of LUD (a city in Israel) and when anti-christ will confront him, he will DISSOLVE like salt in water. After that Jesus will rule for 40 years with Justice and there will be one COMMUNITY ,i.e Submission to the will of God.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First off let me say that i am neither Christian nor Muslim...But if we are going to pick on Muslim because of extremists sects doing really bad things in the name of Religion, then every religion in the world is guilty...You have the extremist Muslims that kill people (terrorist) and you have the extremist Christians that kill people (serial killers (god told me to kill), Also terrorists), Every Religion that preaches peace, love and understanding has enforced this at one point in time using the edge of a "sword".
  
  And how can you say that one Religion is better or worse than another...one scripture is better than another...All holy scriptures were written by men under the "inspiration" of god. and the last time I checked most of us Americans aren't of a Jewish descent so we are on the back burner as it is when it comes to the God of the Bible.
  
  There is no-one alive today that can prove that the Bible, Book of Mormon, Q'uran or any other Holy Scripture is right or wrong.
  
  Each of us are individuals or at least we claim to be...and in that sense we all understand and comprehend scriptures in a way that makes sense to us and allows us to believe in that higher power we are so desperately searching for.
  
  One last thought...If the Bible is in fact the "true" word of God, then why in the early 1880's did 14 books of the bible get removed by the reformed protestant sector, why did it take until 315 AD/CE for the Bishop of Alexandria to finally decided on which 27 books would make up the NT and why are there over 32,000 different Christian faiths arguing over who is right and who is wrong when it comes to the Bible... shouldn't we all understand it the same way if we are believers in God, Jesus, and or the Holy Spirit.
  
  And before anyone asks. Yes I used to be a Wesleyan Holiness Christian... I have read the bible (various versions) and I have read the Book of Mormon as well as the Q'uran...
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  skipper Narrating the correct account of Jesus doesn't mean that we HATE Chrsitians.
  
  Its completly BULLSHIT to say that Muhammad copied Quran from Bible.
  Bible has 100's of manifest contradictions and scientific errors. While the Quran has not a SINGLE SINGLE SINGLE error init and the scientific miracles had indeed proved that the Quran is the true word of God.
  
  Muhammad was illiterate, if he copied from Bible then he must have copied those unscientific verses also.
  
  Angel Gabriel always acted as an intermediary b/w God and all his prophets for the revealations.
  Beside that, only prophet Moses met God face to face on Toor Sina (Mount Sinai) and prophet Muhammad on his journey from Jerusalem (Temple of Solomon/masjid Aqsa) to heaven where he met all the prophets. It was here that God gave him 5 daily prayers. This journey is called Isra Meraj.
  
  skipper i will prove Quran word of God through miracles mentioned in it. but wait bcoz i have to reply to other people also. and moreover there are so many miracles that i cant put all in this forum. I will publish a separate hub for that.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  do not just froth at the mouth Ahmad PROVE YOUR WORDS
  
  Waiting for your proof ......................................
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you said B_S I belive Mohammed heard people talking about the OT and thought ' cool what a Good idea' time for my relevations, if your first false MIRACLE is anything to go by what a booring post . It is full i(n your own words) of B_S I almost choked with laughter when I saw your 'MIRACLE' oh Ahmed GET REAL or are you writing a post just for laughs???
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Ahmed! I like the way you have handled the whole thread with out disgracing! Keep them to their own "Holy bible."
  
  Skipper is another "hater" whose knowledge of the Quran is very lacking. If you will note, he will only talk about the revelation of the Quran to an uneducated man, then he will talk about the four women and how the Prophet was a warlord. Then it will be closed chapter. He can not quote and defend any surah from the Quran; talk about hearsay!
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why should he quote and defend any surah and why should he at all have knowledge from quran...he has nothing to do with quran at first place...as muslim you may quote from quran but dont use bible to make christians wrong...in end it is faith...respect it if not belief it...how would you feel if someone said quran is wrong?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you should READ the TITLE of this POST carefully.
  
  I am not quoting from Quran But from BIBLE.
  
  Those who believe Jesus performed miracles not from God's acknowledgment BUT by his own power, how will they confront Jesus on the judgement day. Jesus will say:
  
  "Not everyone who says to me, ’Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ’Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, ’I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23).
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you agree that Jesus WILL judge each one.
  That makes Him God, for only God judges righteously.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Father, the God, the God of all prophets, the creator of everything in this universe will JUDGE, not Jesus.
  
  Jesus is a prophet and messenger of God.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well what you define as god ..aka-dj defines him as jesus...why do you argue?...let god decide whether he is jesus or he is not jesus..it is not yours or mine domain right?...it is god's domain...
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so sad you cannot even answer a question.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thank you pisean,
  still waiting for Ahmad to answer simple quesions.
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do respect on the forum no matter their faiths. However we should also be able to rise our debate to levels that can accommodate divergent views. Ahmad is challeging christianity as according to the bible. It is not fair to counter his challeges by simply stating another wrong in the quran. A wrong in the Quran does not make a right in the bible.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  nor would a wrong in the Bible make something in the Quran right...
  
  which is my original point.. what does in matter if the beliefs Christians have are 'wrong' in terms of validating the truths of Islam?
  
  Why not focus of celebrating or explaining the values and beliefs of one's religion, instead of the futile attempt to convince other believers that their faith is misguided?
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Greek One why would you want to treat a sick child yet you are in good health? In Africa we largely believed in small gods i.e god of the water the sun the hunt. So much like the trinity! But when a white man came he taught us better. He taught us that God was one. What he never explained was that God needed a little help!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who was this white man?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rajab , if it is good for the quran it is good for the bible Ahmed is trying to disprove Jesus ok Lets get that straigt
  Ahmad made statements about the Quran ( like the Quran and Islam protectingJews) Mohammed being the last prophet of God, if so why did Mohammed only get ( CLAIMED) angel ( he has been asked to give proof and fails) when true prophets like Moses got God direct ( i.e. The burning bush)
  Ahmad said Mohammed recieved the last word from God. ( he has been asked to prove that AGAIN he failed)
  
  Ahmed states many lies but when asked to prove his lies he cannot.
  The Mormans state they recieved the last word from God.
  
  Ahmad state's it is easy to prove both points but as always it is only Ahmads mouth and UNPROVEN words.
  
  If I am wrong asking for proof Rajab plese tell me why.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  skipper you could have used the word DISPROVE Jesus if i was proving Jesus not God from Quran BUT since i am quoting my proofs from the Bible, therefore you should respect it and cant use the word DISPROVING JESUS.
  
  Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed to you, Muhammad), and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabaeans; whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does right, surely their reward is with their Lord, and there will come no fear upon them neither will they grieve) (Quran 2:62).
  
  Remember, when the Quran gives good witnesses to the Jews and Christians, it refers to the righteous and good followers of Moses and Jesus and those who followed them and put their ethics and moral and legal rulings into practice
  
  According to Stillman, The Qur'an praises Moses, and depicts the Israelites as the recipients of divine favour.
  
  The Qur'an dedicates many verses to the glorification of Hebrew prophets, says Leon Poliakov. He quotes verseas an example,
  
  "We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations. [Qur'an 6:85]
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me Rajab but 99% of Muslins say the Quran is perfect and cannot be chalenged do you feel there might be some wrong parts in the Quran?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me skipper, 100% Muslims believe that Quran is perfect and can't be challenged.
  
  Even the non-Muslims believes that. Do you that KANGROO?
  
  A famous non-Muslim Orientalist A J Arberry righly said:
  
  “Whenever I hear the Quran chanted, it is as though I am listening to Music, underneath the flowing melody there is sounding all the time, the insistent beat of a drum, it is like the beating of my heart.”
  
  Rev. R. Bosworth-Smith said:
  
  "A MIRACLE OF PURITY, OF STYLE,OF WISDOM AND OF TRUTH."
  
  Yet another Briton, Marmaduke Picktall in the foreword to his translation of Holy Qur'an describes it as:
  
  "THAT INIMITABLE SYMPHONY, THE VERY SOUND OF WHICH MOVE MEN TO TEARS AND ECSTACY."
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  J. Schillidy, D.D., in "The Lord Jesus in the Koran" Surat 1913, p. 111 writes:
  
  "THE KORAN IS THE MOHAMMEDAN BIBLE, AND IS MORE REVERENCED THAN ANY OTHER SACRED BOOK, MORE THAN THE JEWISH OLD TESTAMENT OR THE CHRISTIAN NEW TESTAMENT." -
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Skipper, lets get first things first. Ahmed is challenging christianity basing on what is written in the Bible. The only logical way to attend to his challenge is to defend what the Bible says, and not, to "qualify" it with what "wrongs" that might be in the Quran. If I did accept that there are anomalies in the Quran, will it be "justification" that they should be in the Bible?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! You would appear to be under the impression that religion isn't like politics, where the candidates cannot offer anything substantial or productive from their political platforms and must resort to slamming their opponents party line in order to get elected.
  
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rajab, You call me a hater, how dare you. It is not I that started attacking the Quran,it was Ahmed who attacked the Bible. Ahmed has said it is easy t prove the Quran was the last word of God I asked him to prove it , nd Ahmed cannot prove that. The Mormans Joseph Smith recieved the last word from God.
  Ahmad only attackes Christians to try and prove Mohammed recieved the last word of God and Ahmad cannot prove Mogammed recievd the last word from God.
  I will never belive the evil way the Quran pretends to love Jesus.
  Allah never saved Jesus from the cross.
  Ahmad I am still waiting for your ( easy easy way) to prove Mohammed had the last word from God'
  I am still waiting for you to prove the Quran.
  You have failled both queations.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  KANGROO! Attacking something and Quoting from something are 2 different things.
  
  i told you that i will publish a separate hub for this to prove Quran the word of God. I can't put all the MIRACLES of Quran on one page. There are tooooo many.
  
  Anyway for you skipper, I will be going to publish 1 by 1 MIRACLES mentioned in the Quran.
  
  Tonight or Tomorrow, with God's willing, i will publish 1 Miracle. I hope you will read with Neutral and Rational mind.
  
  I believe, beside 100's of other MIRACLES mentioned in the Quran, this 1 will be enough for you to PROCLAIM loud in this FORUM:
  
  THERE IS NO god BUT ALLAH AND MUHMMAD IS HIS SLAVE AND MESSENGER + JESUS IS HIS SLAVE AND MESSENGER.
  
  InshAllah
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ____________
  MUHMMAD is God? Get real. There is only one true God and it's not MUHMMAD.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Deborah we both can agree Mohammed counts for nothing as Gods go.
  Deborah Ahmad says every Jew will get down on his knees and thank Allah for the protection Islam gives to the Jews. I belive that is pure b-s what do you think as a Jew.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Lady Deborah Sexton,
  
  Muhammad (PBUH) is the slave and messnger of God, nothing more than that.
  
  ---> James A. Michener (February 3, 1907 – October 16, 1997), an American author, in his book "Islam: The Misunderstood Religion", Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70 writes:
  
  "No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."
  
  “Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God".
  
  "In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God،¦s personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshiped, He lives forever."
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Friend God is known through REASON, SIGNS and We have the DIVINE book Quran and it mentions all his SIGNS.
  
  So you want proofs about Gabriel, just bcoz he doesn't visit SINFUL people like us BUT he visited EVERY Prophet to act as an intermidiary b/w God and his Prophets.
  
  All the Prophets from Adam (PBUH) to Muhammad (PBUH) were just like us, they were Humans BUT of HIGH HIGH HIGH Callibre. They were all Chosen by God for the the guidance of Human Beings.
  
  Every Prophet was sent to his Tribe EXCEPT Muhammad (PBUH) for he was the LAST Prophet and sent for the WHOLE of MANKIND.
  
  Quran again and again says O' Mankind! O' Mankind:
  
  "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Qur'an 49:13)
  
  "O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: for We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.
  Then those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him soon will He admit them to Mercy and Grace from Him and guide them to Himself by a straight Way." (Qur'an 4:174-175)
  
  "Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an they could not produce the like thereof even if they backed up each other with help and support.
  And We have explained to man in this Qur'an every kind of similitude: yet the grater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! (Qur'an 17:88-89 )
  
  Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord and follow not as friends or protectors other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.
  How many towns have We destroyed (for their sins)? Our punishment took them on a sudden by night or while they slept for their afternoon rest.
  When (thus) our punishment took them no cry did they utter but this "indeed we did wrong." (Qur'an 7:3-5)
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wrong as usual Ahmad Moses was a prophet and Moses was visited by God ( read about the Burning Bush)
  
  Peophets get visits from God ( never Angels)
  
  Sorry you quote from Bible ( out of Context when it suits you) then you quote from the Quran.
  
  Ahmad please belive as a Christian I do not belive the Quran ok.
  
  You stat you will prove from the Bible yet you LIE and go back to the Quran, as a Christian I do not belive the Quran, so as you stated PROVE FROM BIBLE.............................................
  
  OK Ahmad I'm waiting for proof................................................
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "O mankind! fear your Lord! For the convulsion of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a thing terrible!
  
  The Day ye shall see it every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling-babe and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah.
  
  And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah without knowledge and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!
  
  About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship him will he lead astray and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.
  
  O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection (consider) that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known (much).
  
  And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells and it puts forth every kind of
  beautiful growth (in pairs).
  
  This is so because Allah is the Reality: it is He Who gives life to the dead and it is He Who has power over all things.
  
  And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.
  
  Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah without knowledge without guidance and without a Book of Enlightenment.
  
  (Qur'an 22:1-8)
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ________
  Listen to how you talk. To you the enemy is anyone who is not Muslim, and feel they should be destroyed.
  
  Oh what love.
  It's not what Yahshua taught, and it's not of God..
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad,
  I thought you only worshiped one God Allah, so I want to know who 'we' is.
  
  'we' created you.......................
  'we' pour down rain..................
  'we' manifest (our power)......................
  'we' will to rest in the wombs.......................
  'we' bring out as babies..................
  'we' cause....................
  ( Ouran 22:1-8)
  
  'we' have sent unto you a light.........................
  Quran 4:174-175
  
  'we' have explained....................
  Quran 17:88-89
  
  'we' destroyed..................
  'our' punishment............................
  'we' did wrong....................
  Quran 7:3-5
  
  Ahmad how many Gods do you worship,'we' means two or more,therefour by the words quoted from the Quran clearly states you do worship more than one God.
  
  Ahmed I realy do wait for your answer, I was so suprised to see that your own Quran states you worship more than one GOD......................................
  Christians worship one God,
  
  The Jews worship one God.
  
  How many Gods do you worship.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We is a Plural of Respect.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  as usual you will not answer the qestion, I PUT IT SIMPLE SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND OK
  PROVE MOHAMMED HAD THE LAST WORD FROM GOD.????
  JOSEPH SMITH SAYS HE AND THE MORMAN CHURCH HAD THE LAST WORD FROM GOD
  SO MOHAMMED DID NOT GET THE LAST WORD FROM GOD
  SO YOU CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING CAN YOU??????
  PROVE THIS FIRST IF YOU CAN.
  
  WELL AHMAN I'M WAITING??????????
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and what makes you think I will belive what you say about the Quran, after all I am still waiting for you to prove the Quran is right.
  
  As usual you make big claims but cannot deliver, prove the Quran 1st,
  Prove Mohammed had the last word from God 2nd
  
  then you might be belived, but you froth at the mouth and deliver no proof.
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  StevenPayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you prove that Joseph smith had the last word? What proof is there other than your faith Skipper?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not a Morman but the Mormans give as much proof an Mohammed, can you prove the Mormans wrong, if you can do it here ok
  
  Excuse me Steven what proof has Mohammed have except 'faith'?
  
  All I say there is equal proof ( faith based) for Mohammed or Joseph Smith. NEITHER had any whitnesses.
  
  And I am still waiting for Ahmads ( EASY EASY ) proof of the Quran and Mohammed's visits fron a 'ANGEL'
  
  As usual Ahmed is BIG on words but 'HAD NO PROOF' So what say you now Ahmed????
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey KANGROO, U R the King of LIARS. U have PHD init.
  
  Just read my new post "Quran Miracle: Will They Then Not Believe?"
  
  I have given plenty of proofs that from Quran and Hadith that Muhammad (PBUH) was visited by Gabriel (Holy Ghost).
  
  And STOP LYING. Otherwise God's curse will be on U.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hi DESERT DOG been there had a good laugh, if your lies get you cursed fine again you have proved NOTHING except your ability to lie.
  DESERT DOG your lies have have been found out as Mohammed is not in Bible this fact confirmed by local Islamic Cleric. He said that you DESERT DOG lie and not to listen to your lies ,
  
  And you have never answered any questions have you DESERT DOG
  
  and DESERT DOG learn to spell before you start calling me names DESERT DOG
  
  oh DESERT DOG Gabrial is not the HOLY GHOST more lies from DESERT DOG
  
  DESERT DOG you are on notice to answer my questions can you answer DESERT DOG????????
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed,
  
  hahahahahaha your 'God' will curse me GET REAL I do not belive your 'God' can curse anybody so it will NEVER NEVER NEVER happen ok so do your worst PLEASE.
  
  I am LAUGHING RIGHT IN YOUR FACE, I will be cursed by your 'God' NEVER your 'God' has no such POWER.
  
  Get real if you want to see who is LIEING Ahmed LOOK IN A MIRROR!!!!!
  
  Skipper...............................( the UNCURSEABLE)
  
  Ahmad, Try and answer my post below, I put on notice..................
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed,
  Sorry you have given no proof, ok we will start again please.
  Question, 1/
  Will you please prove that Mohammed ever saw a 'Angel' and Mohammed recieved the last word from God,.?
  
  I say it was Joseph Smith ( Mormans) that saw the angel Gabrial and recieved the last word from God.
  Ahmed Joseph Smith had 11 witnesses that state they saw Gaberial and the Golden tablets.
  
  Now if Mohammed had NO witnesses and Joseph Smith had 11 witnesses then Joseph Smith recieved the last word from God. That is reasonable therefore Joseph Smith did recieve the last word from God and NOT Mohammed.
  
  Ahmad I am not a Morman, just a Catholic so do not care who said they recieved the last word from God,but looking at the what has been stated how can you prove Mohammed hd the last Message from God.
  
  Ok Amhed you prove the Mormans wrong and Mohammed right.
  
  Ahmad go ahead answer my QUESTION if you can???
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  __________________
  This is a personal attack, and a bit of a threat
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad,
  " you have given plenty of proof" sorry you have given no proof.
  OK we start again with a simple question, prove Mohammed saw a Angel and had the last word of God.???
  
  I say Joseph Smith ( MORMANS ) did and he had 11 witnesses who state they saw the Angel and the Golden Tablets, Ahmad how many witnesses did Mohammed have?????
  
  A am not a Morman , but I want to see how many witnesses Mohammed had, I belive he had none. If this is true Joseph Smith saw a angel and did recieve the last word from God, and not Mohammed. OK over to you Ahmed prove me wrong.............................
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Joseph smith had eleven witnesses who aasserted to their dying day to seeing an angel and the golden plates.
  Just saying.....
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes he did Onusonus which is more that Mohammed ever had, just a thought........................
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Onusonus, I just asked Ahmed to prove Joseph Smith with 11 witnesses did not recieve the last message from God,as I belive Mohammed had no witnesses, am waiting to see the answer.
  
  have a great day mate..............................
  may your God walk with you
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Sri Tposted 14 years ago
The easy answer to all of your questions is: God exists in the deeper levels of beings. The Spirit is life. The surface is whatever nonsense the world has supplied.
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Greek One I realize your point. However it does not apply to this thread. Ahmad is raising questions from the bible it is quite unfair to not attend at the particular concerns that he is raising by simply pointing out the anormalies in his faith. It is defeatism to simply turn away from the questions asked. Maybe Ahmad is at crossroads trying to finding the truth. Excuse my gramma for am using a mobile phone.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sri T,
  You make sence, unlike Ahmad and Rajab who attack the Christian faith with pure hate, they only look for 'out of context' verses to try and suport their evil ways They can never prove any of their statements, if fact they run and hide when asked for proof.. Thank you for such wisdom Sri T. Have a great day and may your God go with you.
  
  Notice how long will it take Ahmad to answer now he is put on notice to put up or shut up.
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StevenPayneposted 14 years ago
Amed, the term prophet is being thrown around alot here. Jesus was a prophet sure, absolutly but I believe he is the son of God as well. You showed scriptures saying the God said others to be his son and thats all well and good but he said that Jesus was he only begotten son.
As far as the hitler and bush discussion, you show me what verses or passages from the bible they used to futher "Gods Kingdom" in their actions. Just so were clear, Hitler's actions was the genocide of the jews and other races I'm assuming but what were Bush's? He did a lot of things as President and you could be refering to anything during his 8 year presidency.
I still am having a hard time understanding your flawless belief in a teaching that says it is ok to kill and to use your limited understanding of situations to determine when it is ok to kill and when it is not. Only God see's every side of a war and conversation and situation. Only he knows truth because he is truth. I ask you this, as a muslim do you have any ought with any other people or faith, gender or creed? If you do is enough to kill them? I am truly interested in this answer and you are more than welcome to email me if you do not want to answer publicly.
I just want to state that I am a man who believes in the God of Adam, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob AND Jesus, John and Paul. I am not trying to upset you or anyone else here, I am trying to understand your faith and belief, as you being the only muslim I have actually spoken with I am filled with questions.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Steven ,
  Well said, you present well. I hope Ahmad will reply to you in a reasonable way.I hope you do get a answer, as you ask a fair question. thank you
  Stephen may your God go with you.....................
  
  Skipper
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are refering to John 3:16 which say "Begotten son" , this word has been thrown out of the Bible in Later version as an interpolation and fabrication.
  
  Moreover, do you know the meaning of begotten?
  
  Begotten means "Born of the act of sexual intercourse"
  
  TWO cases:
  Either God had sex with Mary (God forbid.....) or that Mary was not a virgin.
  
  We also believe in the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.
  
  "We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations. [Qur'an 6:85]
  
  "And remember our servants, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, men of parts and vision. Lo! We purified them with a pure thought, remembrance of the Home (of the Hereafter). Lo! in Our sight they are among the best of chosen men." (Quran 38:45-47)
  
  I didnt understand your other Q of ought with any other people or faith, gender or creed?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  _______________
  It was thrown out of which bible?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  New Internatioanl Version and many others Versions. Just Google it or look it up in the Wikipedia.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmed,
  You can write anything in Wikipedia, it may not be true. Is that the best you can do.?
  
  Skipper,
  may your God walk with you
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that the bible explains that Mary was overshadowed by the holy spirit, and it caused mary to become pregnant with Jesus.
  If it were to be explained in mortal terms people from such an ancient era might have difficulty coming up with a new word or an easy way for being conceived by God without engaging in an actual physical act.
  The poeple who wrote the Bible understood what the word "Begotten" meant, yet had no other way to explain what happened between Mary and God, hence she still remained a "Virgin" in all instances provided in scripture and yet conceived the baby Jesus.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Onusonus,
  I agree and belive you truly understand. Thank you. Now we wait for some Muslin to come along and say we are wrong, oh such is life.
  
  Skipper
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I'm affraid that is just the way it works. Otherwise they would all convert to Christianity.
  All you can do is your best to show a Christ like example towards people of other faiths. Be humble, compasionate, and intelligent, and you will be surprised at what kind of people will gravitate towards you.
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  christiansisterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have dropped out of the thread but, I kept reading the responses. That being said, I must give a very exuberant AMEN!!! Thank you for your comment.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's pretty easy to become unhinged when communicating over the blogosphere. Just remember what the apostle James said. "in many things we may offend, but if a man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able to bridle the whole body."
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Onusonous, I agree with you also.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks.
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Composer2005posted 14 years ago
biblical jesus is a fictional story book character
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Composer,
  Just as predicted,along come your Insults. Must feel so proud to be the first to state such rubish. I knew some unbeliver had to answer with out any proof, the Bible was here before you and will be true long after you are dust. The Bible HAS never been proven wrong, and you will not prove it wrong, if insulting makes you feel good do it, you will have to try and save your soul when you die, Good luck.
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you.
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Skipper, lets try to get some millage and forget about the wikipedia. Are the books and verses that Ahmad quotes, a lie or they really do exist in the writing of the Bible?
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rajab,
  
  Everything 'exists' but taking anything out of context even the Quran is not the way to do things. And Amhed knows this that is why he tries 'tricks' but Ahmad gets caught out every time, simple tell the truth in 'context' simple. Every thing must be in context, you know that. I can make any book say whatever I like by picking words out of context.
  
  But I must point out when Amhad gets into a hard answer he goes straight to the Quran. As a Christian the Quran can not and will not ever be belived as I do not belive the Quran is the word of God. It might be the word of the people that wrote it , but the word of Mohammrd how, he could not even read the Quran to prove it contained his words.
  
  And Ahmad said he will only use the Bible, even Ahmad cannot keep his word. Now I wait for Ahmads proof from Bible. And I must ask proof of what.?
  
  Also Joseph Smith (Morman) had 11 witnesess who saw the Angel and the 'Golden Tablets' Mohammed had none, so in any court of Law Joseph Smilh has proved he ( Mormans ) had the last word from God and not Mohammed.
  
  Skipper.
  may your God walk with you
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nor, has it ever been proven right.
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StevenPayneposted 14 years ago
The question about having ought with someone has to do with the passage from the Qu'ran that states you can go to war with someone or slay an unbeliever. Does this mean me since I don't believe in the Qu'ran or the version of God you call Allah? If I were in front of you, would you want to cut off my head or stone me? I am not ignorent of the way your faith works. There are Muslims on the news in America because they have cut the head off their wife for being disobediant or some such non sense.
There is a movie based on the story of a woman who married a muslim from Iran and went back to his country so he could visit his family and found herself kidnapped by this Islamic wackjob. It's called Not Without My Daughter. This is not an isolated happening. How can you defend a religion that treats it's woman like cattle? Let's put God on the back burner for a moment as well as the bible and the Qu'ran say about Christ because you and I will never see eye to eye.
The morality of being able to beat your wife for disobaying or even kill her. The fact that a woman can't go anywhere without a man in these Islamic ruled countrys without a man is absurd or the fact they cannot show their hair or in even some extreme cases their skin except their eyes! But the man can do whatever he pleases as long as he can support it by a book? Marry as many wives as you wish, when you die you are presented with vigrins? To be honest your faith sounds more like a rock hard fantasy than a practice of peace and tolerance.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzeddad,
  
  Sorry but to me Jesus Christ is proven by my 'faith' you can disagree, that is your right. I do belive the Holy Bible I belive it is right, if you do not belive, fine you are not forceing some other faith down my neck. For that Beelzaddad you have my respect.
  
  Steven Payne,
  I must agree with you 100% as you and I have disagreed with the Quran any Muslim can cut our head off, and be justified by the Quran. Islam is purely a 'Religion' for men, made up by men, controlled by men, who truely belive that when they did in battle 'defending' Islam they get '72 Virgins. The only thing I have noted no were is it stated 'what the 72 Virgins are.'But you are 100% right and can never be proved wrong by any Muslim, that is the sad part of Islam.You see werever a 'Peacefull verse is replaced by a more violent verse' then a Muslim is abrogated th follow the latter verse.Muslims are told to 'lie and cheat' non belivers to inprove Islam. The Quram states 'woman and men' are to dress modest, but men who are so afraid that other men that see their wife may not be able to control their 'urges' so they make their wives cover everything, to me that is a discusting way to behave. Thank God I am Christian, but I have noticed the looks of Islamic men as they look at western woman, that makes me sick to my stomach.
  
  Skipper,
  may your God walk with you
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's fine, but if you deny other believers the right to believe as they do, then you contradict yourself at every turn, which is exactly what you've been doing all along.
  
  Your belief in the bible does not align with reality, and I would never force reality upon you.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzeddad,
  I think you may have noticed that Ahamed is trying to discredit Christanity and prove Islam is the only faith and Allah is the only God.
  That is your view I belive the Bible is REALITY, so you belive as you do ok.
  
  I have respect for you please do not destroy it, I allow your views please will you allow me mine. If Islam leaves me alone and stops atacking Jesus and the Bible I will leave them alone.
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Kinda like you're trying to discredit Islam and prove Christianity is the only faith and Jesus is the only god?
  
  But, please do continue on looking at the mirror and not seeing your own reflection. LOL!
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beezedad,
  You might be right mate, but is sure is fun. But all I see is my own reflection. LOL
  If no reflection how do I shave . LOL
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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Momma Miaposted 14 years ago
ahhhh the reflection .... so deep in that rippled water...that leaves only hints of the true image. When man can learn to love like Jesus, take the time to feel God and to see others as a friend instead of the enemy .... then the peace can begin.....then our heavenly father can be made proud of his children.
As I sit here today and read these blogs, I am reminded once again that too many argue over God. I often wonder and believe that God can only be hurt by this... as his children are fighting.....much less over his name. When Gods children will let God in their heart....they feel no need to argue and fight.
I have had many out of body experiences.... I have seen that luminous light......heard Gods voice and seen Jesus Christ. One was not a near death experience.......3 were very much so.... No drugs or alcohol was involved and I did not require a hospital stay. My gallbladder ruptured and i was in much pain...I called to God for his mercy and was shown more than I ever expected. I have spent the last 4 years doing online work for God.....as God told me to do.
One does not have to know all the verses or chapters of the bible.....Although I read our bible several times ...to only lose much of the written word that I memorized , to a brain stem head injury. What I did after that was open the bible to a random page.....it always spoke directly to me and what was going on in my life at that time. Proving to me that all of it at one time was not needed and that God will guide my hands ...if I only allow him.
Peace on earth and great will toward men......all of them.
Happy Holidays

Mia
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to hear about that, but it would appear that the former is most likely a result of the latter.
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Momma Miaposted 14 years ago
Beelzedad
not sure exactly what you are referring to but I like your spunk that I have observed in this forum. I probably will not post too much....as everyone seems to bicker...an about God of all topics ! I have had friends of all faiths, most races and age and gender. Some also were atheist or agnostics. To share of ourselves, experience, wisdom and knowledge only help others if given with non-judgement and compassion for others.....without arrogance or harsh insults. However I love to share about my personal relationship with God......and I believe That when everyone has that.......the bickering will stop and the words here will be replaced with kinder, softer, more tolerant text.
until,
Mia
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Moma Mia,
  I truly understand you , as a survior also of a Massive brain stem injury, that cost me 4 years of my live. I must be honest I also can oppen the Bible at any page and it comes alive, I try to be honerable in my posts and not insult, but sometimes it is so hard.
  
  As I said I had massive Head ( brain stem) imjury along with massive leg injuries. I lay in intensive care packed in ice, whth 3 fans blowing over my body in a deep coma. I had three nuns praying for me around the clock my temp. was hovering around 40C, and had recieved the last rites. On the seventh day my temp. dropped and my body started to be able to keep a tempeture.
  
  My recovery was slow, but 4 years later I returned to work, my right leg is now 2 1/4 ins shorter with 30% less muscle mass below the knee.
  
  Yes I belive ijn the power of prayer, I belive My Lord Jesus is the only liveing true God, also I am Catholic.
  
  There has to be peace between all faiths, because right now we are slowly heading to-wards a world wide Religious WAR and there will be the Greatest BLOODBATH in History. This I hope and pray NEVER Happens.
  
  Skipper,
  May your God walk with you
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry about the injury, Skipper! I now know where you are coming from. You surely need a rest now. My sincere apologies.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rsjab,
  
  Thank you, but that was in 1975, everything fine now. Unless I told you the only thing you might notice is a slight limp if I am very tired. I was shot 2 times while I was a Soldier.That is a risk a soldier takes. I returned into the work force in 1980.I retired after working the 2000 Olympics in Australia as a Security Officer.
  
  Rsjab that is why Islam has to be able to live in peace now, alongside all other Religions. All other Religions also have to live in peace with Islam. Because my friend if we cannot live to-gether in peace,we will fight and both will go to WAR, that must never happen. So I belive peacefull Muslims must state in as loud as VOICE as possiable. That Islam will NEVER APROVE any violence under the name of Islam. No more ATTACKS NO MORE KILLING in the name of Islam, do you agree??
  
  This is the place to reslove any differences by talking NOT KILLING, I put it you straight Islam must change.Like the Christian's and Jew's are at peace with each other Islam has to foget the old ways, and be at PEACE.
  
  Thank you for your kind words.
  
  Skipper,
  may your God go with you
  
  P.S. My pic is less than 12 months old I am 67 years old.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  skipper, Sorry about your injuries. Yes there is power in prayer.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Woman of courage,
  
  Yes there is great power in prayer, the Doctors had done their best best, it was up to my faith, a couple of nuns and my self, along with the greatesr healer Jesus Christ.
  
  I recovered, even 1 doctor said it was a recovery he could not explain, and it sure was more than luck he belived God lent a helping hand.
  
  So I'm ok, my body works, it's 30 years down the track, and I still have My faith and belief in my Lord Jesus Christ. So everything is good.
  
  Skipper,
  may your God walk with you
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great testimony! The power of God was working through the doctor's hands, and it was not luck at all. Many will say it was just luck to dismiss God. I say it was a miracle. Keep the faith Skipper.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Woman of Courage,,
  
  I will never disagree with you, I belive in the power of Prayer, The power of my Lord Jesus Christ, to me Jesus is the only true God, always was and always will be.
  
  Even one doctor agreed with you, I know the power of Jesus Christ to me the ONLY TRUE GOD.... PERIOD.
  
  Have a Great Christmas, Woman of Courage, God bless you and yours
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful! Have a Great Christmas Skipper
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Glory to God,for the things He has done( and still to come)

There are many more stories like Skippers that will probably never appear on Hubpages or anywhere else on the net,just as there are many answers to Scientific questions still unanswered.

I sure dont profess to know ALL the answers,but I am so happy to have met the Living God and before you ask how do I know,or prove it ,let me say its a spiritual truth ,not one that can be fully understood on a written forum, and certainly never will be understood by a closed mind.

Good morning all ,wow a brand new day ( who ever said miracles dont still happen!)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amazing that you feel the need to attack others in such a passive-aggressive way. Odd that you do not see that this is why people end up despising people who claim to be Christian.
  
  Denying proven scientific facts because they prove your religion to be nonsense and then claiming to have an open mind is rather funny though. Certainly reminds me why I reject your beliefs. Thanks.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Eaglekiwi, You are absolutely right, and I fully agree with your response
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Kia Ora,
  Eaglekiwi,
  
  Merry Christmas to you and yours.
  
  Skipper,
  may your God walk with you
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
You felt attacked?

Oh dear ( to coin your fav response)

Science is great ,but not 'all knowing' and thats a fact too.

I dont share my thoughts to challenge yours Mark,its a great shame that you feel and act like I do.

My goodness if I felt attacked everytime someone disagreed with me Id be continually wounded.

Passive aggressive lol @ stereotypes ,titles, names, etc.

God said You, and I are wonderfully made

Of course you are free to disagree that He said that ,but I am free to express that he did.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - I consider saying "never will be understood by a closed mind." to be a passive-aggressive attack on anyone who does not subscribe to your fairy tale. It is not about agreeing or disagreeing - it is your implied superiority and need to belittle others. I did not take it personally - I know why you need to attack people in this way and I certainly do not value your opinion enough to be upset. I was hoping you might understand why this is the attitude that causes people to dislike self-professed Christians. Sorry you can not understand that. Dear me.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's no way to talk to a lady.
  
  You feel threatened by a "woman's opinion"?
  Now that's worth a
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you having trouble reading what I wrote dj? She was making a passive aggressive attack and that is what I commented on. I actually find it funny - not threatening, but was pointing out why people tend to become offended by people who do such things.
  
  I know that as a Christian you automatically ignore a "woman's opinion " like the bible tells you to - but I am not like that. I have morals.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you feel threatened again? I can see your true motives. I can only imagine how miserable you must feel inside. By the way, the bible doesn't state that a woman opinion should be ignored. Love and blessings to you
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry - no - I do not feel threatened. I was attacked as being incapable of understanding because I am close minded. Are you having trouble reading also?
  
  I feel wonderful - thank you for asking. Inside and out. I recently quit smoking and feel great.
  
  The bible is pretty clear that women are not to lecture men. Yet you persist in going against the Word of God. Why is that?
  
  Yes - I wish same sort of love and blessings back to you.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you feel so threatened every time somone expresses their religious beliefs? Don't you think its time we tried to share our feelings in a less condescending way? Prehaps then you will be more sucessful in your attempts to convert others to Atheism.
  
  After all I'm sure that there are some kind of benifites to believing in nothing, other than the mastery of belittlement and condescention. None the less it's your God given right to do and act as you please.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good on you , that says it all.
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Same to you, I hope one day we can all walk upright by his side.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark:
  
  This is part of my earlier post.
  
  I sure dont profess to know ALL the answers,but I am so happy to have met the Living God and before you ask how do I know,or prove it ,let me say its a spiritual truth ,not one that can be fully understood on a written forum, and certainly never will be understood by a closed mind
  
  If you thought I was meaning you , ( I wasnt) then um ,the cliche "If the hat fits,springs to mind)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh? In that case - I am sorry - I thought you were saying that you have a spiritual truth that will never be understood by a closed mind. My bad - assuming you meant people who do not believe in god are close minded and will never understand the truth that you do understand.
  
  And then you make it clear that you did mean that with the "if the hat fits."
  
  Passive-aggressive attacks are still attacks.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Eaglekiwi, Mark has falsely accuse me on a previous thread of being passive- agressive also. I was only speaking the truth about my personal experience of my faith.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Woman of Courage,
  
  If you are 'passive agressive' you would have to be so gentle at 'passive agressive' .
  
  Gee I almost missed it, but then like you my skin is just a bit thicker, and I fail to see how you were lectureing a 'man'.
  
  Guess I will have to be more carefull in all my posts, so I do not upset some 'thin skined' people.
  
  Do they never complain because I am male and can be 'verry passive agressive'?
  
  Skipper
  may your God walk with you
  
  P.S. Mark, did not see your Name,think you might just be a bit thin skinned, I consider your use of words like 'fairy tale' to be a poor atempt to discredit the Bible , and NO one has yet proved the Bible wrong, so the Bible is NOT a fairy tale. If you are qoing to put up another view PLEASE just be honest OK.
  
  Skipper,
  may your God walk with you
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  skipper, You are careful enough in your posts. No need for any of us to be on pins and needles. No matter how gentle you are in these forums, someone will always be offended simply because we speak of God and his holy word.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is ok W.O.C I know deep down Mark weally wuvs me!
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed
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Woman Of Courageposted 14 years ago
Merry Christmas to all who celebrates.
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  skipper112posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ty Merry Christmas to you and yours xx
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have no problem with people saying, Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or Seasons Greeting or... whatever. It really doesn't matter. It's just a time of the year when people will say these things to other people but never say anything similar to those same people any other time of the year. Empty platitudes.
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skipper112posted 14 years ago
Merry Christmas mate
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