Can human civilization survive without religion

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pisean282311posted 11 years ago
What do you guys think on this?
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  Savva Pelouposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  yes they can. State laws have enough rules to govern how we live, religion makes us go the extra mile
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It would probably prosper without it!!!
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  Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  A better question to ask is could the human race exist without God creating it?
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  According to nature, we did and we do.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Since all of creation is made by God including all nature, think again.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No Dave, that would require that I believe and not think.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @dave read question again...it doesnot mention god...religion is human product and I am talking about that..god would be different question altogether...m talking about religion which exist today , which didnt exist 5k years or 10k years back and still we had human beings...at that time they had different religions and different gods or prophets or messiahs or god sons etc etc...
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  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Your question assumes a god exists to begin with. Thus irrelevant.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No you are irrelevant God is not and neither is my question.
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  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nice come back.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  on the forum CHRISTIANITY, THE BIBLE AND JESUS to say:
  "Your question assumes a god exists to begin with. Thus irrelevant"
  
  is mind numbingly selfish.
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  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Mind numbingly selfish? How ironic coming from you.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  its a context thing
  i'll spell it out for you
  
  christianity, the bible and jesus FORUM
  
  what you said
  "Your question assumes a god exists to begin with. Thus irrelevant"
  
  why did you say it?
  selfishness - you just wanted to get your point out regardless of
  
  Christianity, the bible and jesus FORUM
  
  i find this attitude
  
  mind numbing.
  
  so you go into the chemistry FORUM
  and you say
  "Chemistry assumes chemicals exist. Thus irrelevant"
  
  hope that helped
  
  and then you said ironic
  and i will say:
  how ironic, coming from you
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  nightwork4posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  we are surviving dave. in your opinion did god create us but i bare to differ. it is silly and too simple to think some mystical being made us and called the first two humans adam and eve. like seriously, was there anyone with those names 25,000 years ago , i think not, never mind when the first humans walked the earth.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  you can disagree with me all you want. The question and the facts are still the same.
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  Dominic Felitonposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Okay:
  So, I believe in god.
  But. some people don't.
  Here are some interesting points:
  1.It is very unlikely that a supernatural being created us.
  2.Not many people like the idea of one god, or monotheism.
  3.We do not have solid evidence of god, except for the bible, which is not enough.
  
  Now, I still believe in god. But, my point is that you shouldn't make assumptions that do not have much backup, and respect the fact that other people out there believe in different religions.
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  Steve LePoidevinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it can. In fact, I believe it has a much better chance of survival without religion.
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  Onusonusposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nope.
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  livelongerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
  
  There are several countries, like Estonia and Sweden, where a majority of the population is atheist, and they seem to be functioning just fine.
  
  I'm sure plenty of people can point to people they know who are atheist or utterly unreligious that are decent, law-abiding people. (If you can't, I suggest you get out more and try to meet more people)
  
  A strong system of ethical behavior is important, but that clearly doesn't have to come from religion.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Damn straight they can. Religion is on the deline. There is also indusputable evidence that religiosity directly correlates inversly to IQ.
  
  There have been worldwide studies that showed that countries with the lowest average IQ (eastern countries) have the highest religiosity.
  
  Europe has higher average IQ and lower religiosity. America seems to be catching up with europe (maybe not the deep south.....).
  
  I think the world will be awesome without religion.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  in these surveys they forget to add to the equation: That God meets people AT their need. People who are struggling look to a religion to help them, so it makes sense that NOT by IQ - although education may have a factor in poor countries like the eastern countries - but because life is harder, there is more poverty, less medical benefits, etc.
  
  also:
  Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
  
  How does that fit into a survey considering IQ?
  
  I think the world would be more awesome without non-believers.
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  Dominic Felitonposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  And it depends.
  1:For a while, a civilization can not have a strong religion that most of the civilization believes in until a group of people form and change that.
  2.Most people in a civilization with no religion believe in other religions.
  3.But, a religion can lead to wars, death, fights, and grudges against who's religion is best.
  
  My point: A civilization can live without a SOLID religion for quite a while, until a firm religion is made and is accepted by the civilization.
  Therefore, most people will create and spread their own religion in a civilization, but could take a long time.
  So, yes, but civilizations can still live without religion for a while.
  ---------------
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kmackey32posted 11 years ago
OMG YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.....
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  couturepopcafeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think so, providing we can eliminate humans' tendency toward greed, violence, and dishonesty. Of course, religion doesn't help this all that much, maybe just a little.
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  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  To move forward as a species, we don't need to eliminate any of that. We need to lessen the number of people inflicted by those. To think that you would be able to eliminate them is absurd and nowhere realistic in thinking.
  If there's any positive action take, then you can be pretty positive something negative will outweigh it. Not to mention, the perceptions others create from it.
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  couturepopcafeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, bud. Ever the profit of doom, I guess. I believe in the hypothetical Nirvana, the perfection of the mind through the perfection of the spirit. There is enough to go around for everyone. The real problem is getting everyone there - at that higher plane. But you are right about it being not likely to happen in reality.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  geez, hasn't 60 million years been long enough for humans to move forward as a species. Many animals are already finished their evolutions but humans still have to move forward as a species.
  
  and how are you going to reduce the number of people infected by greed, violence and dishonesty when you promote self as the highest form? Or how will you instill a worthwhile opinion of life when you say death is just an end of nothingness.
  
  I think religion helps more than just a little. It may have been what has kept the human race from extinction ages ago.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Death is only an end of nothingness when it is spent praying in anticipation for it and an afterlife.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Your belief cheapens everything it touches.
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  Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Really? It's "cheap" to state reality?
  
  Oh, right, it's better to make up spiritual clap-trap to ease your fears. Yes, I get it. You need your fantasy. That's fine - it makes you happy, I have no problem.
  
  But those of us who prefer reality are not "cheapening" anything.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad.
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Captain Redbeardposted 11 years ago
Just as easily as we could without government.
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  couturepopcafeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hear! Hear! (or is it Here! Here!)
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  Captain Redbeardposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  *shrugs* both work for me.
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  Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not presently. Civilization(humanity) as a whole isn't civilized. And anyone claiming that only needs to look outside.
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  Captain Redbeardposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  HAHAHAHAHAHA, modern but not civilized. Good call eagle face, good call.
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Disturbiaposted 11 years ago
I don't see why not. Seems like for many hundreds of years religion has been the enemy of free thinking, science, and progress as well as being the source and/or excuse of much war, violence, and suffering. One can only dream of a world without religious fundamentalists, fanatics, and extremists trying to shove their philosophy down everyone's throats and trying to control our thoughts, actions, and lifestyles.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 11 years ago
Can human civilization survive without religion?
Survive... sure....

Just like humanity can survive on bread and water. Without religion we would be much more animal (do what feels good right now), and much less divine (higher purpose).
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  Disturbiaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  We can most certainly be spiritual without belonging to any organized religion, which all have their own agenda and exist only to dominate and control.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Religion isn't organized churches (though organized churches are a part of religions). It is the belief in something {usually unproven} that is greater than self. (and that includes the religion of Atheism).
  
  ***Spirituality is a part/aspect of religion, without religion spirituality couldn't exist either.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That's the point, mankind could easily survive without that belief, one way or the other, and not just on bread and water, and not just acting like animals.
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  Captain Redbeardposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect I think that is incorrect, the word "religion" comes from the Latin word "religio" which has a meaning influenced by the verb "religare" to bind. I have always been against religion. For to long, faith based people have been bound by religion. I for one am against religion entirely. The law of religion will always tie the hands of what God wants to do with his people.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And this is something Jesus taught as well. Pharisees following the law but still Godless.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Without God spirituality could not exist.
  God is the spirit and there is no other spirit.
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Therefore in our "I" ness we don't exist. We just "think" we do.
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Greek Oneposted 11 years ago
our witches would run a muck!
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paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago
"Can human civilization survive without religion?"

If there was no religion, someone would come along and make one up.

But wait! That's exactly what has already happened. Several hundred times in fact. Never mind...
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm...quite right...
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darknight444posted 11 years ago
well it depent on what rligions you re speaking aboute

if you are speaking on abrahamique religion even with there huuge diffrences thy meet in e lots of parts one of it is the moral values and social values
will find in al the abrahamique religion the rejection of crimes all of it
will find in all the abrahamique religion e calling for solidarity and brotherhood decency mercy charity
that s e greate aspect and it have guide ppl for e long long times

thise is e question muslim scholars repond to it in books and books

and for the arabs and muslims islam was the start of civilization
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  kirstenblogposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah and solidarity and brotherhood decency mercy charity can't be found anywhere else let alone outside of religion
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  darknight444posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  hhh but religion cristlyse the meaning of freedom and responciblity ther is e judjemnt day there is e hell of fire and paradise
  
  mohamed say i came to you as e giver of greate tidings paradise bigger than the earth and the sky and as e warner of an eternale hell of fire
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @darknight arabs were civilized before Islam too...weren't they?
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  darknight444posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  hhh the quetion was not to be reponded with racisme
  
  1 all countrys were not civilized at that time we re speaking aboute the 6 centry
  islam make arabs at the top in evry aspect of life politicall , economical social, moral ,evry aspect
  
  elot of researcher not the one who are fulled with racisme and iperialisme attitude see the islamique civilatation to be the greatest civilisation ever existe greater than romaine percian greek
  
  just visite arabick countrys and look at the architecture and compare it to the uropian romain : greek international model
  
  look it will take me long long time to explaine how islam but research islamique approach ot thise aspects
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  Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think it rather arrogant of you to think that Islam invented civilisation. I think we could with some research tot up what Rome contributed in terms of architecture, engineering and culture, and the Islamic world would look quite backward on comparison.
  
  Furthermore, what did Islam contribute to the industrial revolution, modern science or engineering, music, popular culture? Not a lot.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Careful, you're about to hear a story on the "Golden Age of Islam" in which Muslims conquered most of the known world stealing ideas and concepts everywhere they went and making them their own.
  
  But, you won't hear that version.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @darknight444 we are comparing civilizations or saying that civilizations didnt exist before Islam...because there were 5 great civilizations already at place in other parts of the world...even arabs traded with those well established ,civilized societies before Islam...
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  darknight444posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  our civilisation not other
  
  mohamed say to his tribe kourich folow me and all the arabs will folow you and all the wolrd will be on youre religion and it s the truth
  and what civilisation did existe ???? e civilasation of meredring and slavary and terorising the weeker nations
  islam is the start of all civilisation
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  are u ok?....civilization started much before all religion which we see today came into being and it is on going process...in 6th century if some one caught in adultery was stoned to death...do u call this being civilized?...obviously not...it was considered ok during those days...
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sure he's ok. He's just sockpuppetting,and doing a pretty bad job of it. Obviously he's just messing with you all.
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  darknight444posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  nothink is comparable to the teaching of islam
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  thats ur view...and why do u want to compare to start with?...how can one compare 6th century write up with write ups written before that or after that...obviously incomparable...context is different , time is different,era is different...
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  NOW that's INDOCTRINATION!
  I think we can safely say that in comparison, christian parents teaching their kids about Jesus is nothing like what gets bored into the heads of islams.
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  Pcunixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  In fact, it's EXACTLy like. It's the same nonsense and the degree simply depends upon how crazed the parents are. Muslims have their nutcases and so do Christians. Most are moderate and quite reasonable in both camps.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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GodTalkposted 11 years ago
It depends on what you mean by religion. If you are asking if civilization can survive without the belief in God, then that is like asking if a man can survive without a heart. God is the creator and the sustainer of the universe. If you took Him out of the picture, then there would be no universe.
Also, someone has said that man is incurably religious. That is because he was created with a need to be in a relationship with the God who created all things. Where you have mankind, you will always have some sort of religious belief. So, to make a long answer even longer: "No, civilization cannot survive without religion,
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Hardly an answer at all let alone a long one. Your explanation is based on a particular creation story and hearsay from "someone".
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  couturepopcafeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with one thing. It depends on what you call religion.
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paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago
Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

One Tin Soldier (The Legend of Billy Jack)
by Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter, performed by The Original Caste (1970)
This song was performed by Jinx Dawson and Coven in the movie "Billy Jack" (1971)
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chuckblposted 11 years ago
I'd say no. Not because God or Religion might be true but because whether you like it or not, as long as man has existed there as existed religion.. going back to the ancient basics of the sun being considered a God. The reason why man has created this religion is because we need a set of moral rules to lives our lives by. We need a code - we need a sense of right and wrong. If we knew for sure there was no religion or God, then why shouldn't I kill someone if I could get away with it? It isn't wrong, because only another man has said it is wrong, and man is infallible. Animals kill each other, why shouldn't we?

Anyway, it is a big discussion. I think that my hub on religion illustrates why religion is good and necessary and the differences between man made religion and what we hope is true religion. SO have a read of that as well.
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  couturepopcafeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I get where you're coming from but would disagree for this reason: "We need a sense of right and wrong". We had a sense of right and wrong. Some people still have it. Not because of a moral code. The code is what confuses the issue. Those who don't believe in the one and only god can and may still have their moral values. One can think of killing someone in the heat of anger but one with moral values - a sense of right and wrong - wouldn't actually do it.
  
  Now if we were to discuss instinct and the sense of a higher value in the universe, we might all come to the consensus that it is better to be kind than be right. It is better to edify each other than to steal from each other, whether physically, e-physically, corporately, emotionally or any other way.
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icountthetimesposted 11 years ago
Yes, it certainly can. I think there will always be religious and spiritual beliefs though.
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marriedwithdebtposted 11 years ago
I don't think so, because if you accept the premise of the question, that means man is somehow not free to put forth ideas and have people judge for themselves.

Religion is defined as a belief in a higher, supernatural power.

I suppose under some type of Matrix scenario, where we all all battery pods for the machines, maybe, but even they had to invent the Matrix and false reality to keep the people occupied.

I don't agree with most of what is put forth by organized religion, but I don't know that I would want to live in a world where it is illegal.
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  LookingForWaldenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well put, neither would I.
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LookingForWaldenposted 11 years ago
World without religion, it's called utopia.
I don't envision a Marxist society. I imagine more of a secular humanitarism.
Free of judgement and constraints.
We look forward to the future instead of adhering to bronze age ideas and rules.
Where differences do not divide us.
Our humanity unites us.
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klarawieckposted 11 years ago
We'll probably make a cult about not being religious! It's human nature to organize ourselves in small groups sharing certain ideas, etc.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  nice one
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Mikeydoesposted 11 years ago
People who don't eat usually die, people who don't drink usually die..

People with religion live just as long as people without religion.

With that being said do I think human civilizations can survive without religion.

Yes
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but is the quality of life better without religion.
  As a Christian, my life now has no comparison to my life before.
  Now if i run around doing good for other people being led by the spirit of God how much more would societies benefit from 1000 more like me. Not to brag, just to be accurate.
  
  How many people are buying pigs, rabbits, goats, generators for the dalits in India because God laid it on their hearts?
  
  Often i find that unsaved people have very little compassion for others and yet they boast the very opposite.
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lone77starposted 11 years ago
No. I don't think so. Not without the heart of religion and spirituality.

Life without such transcendence is based only on continuity of reality. Selfishness has a tendency to take over. That's ego in control.

Ego affects all aspects of civilization, including religion. In fact, when religion goes bad (crusades, witch hunts, inquisitions, etc), ego is behind it.

Without religion and spirituality, we get more "us versus them"... likely enough for the infrastructure to collapse. Without the civilizing aspect of religion (spirituality without ego), we'll never again see things like Apollo 11, and possibly not even a Roman-like empire. Just the wailing and gnashing of victim-perpetrator madness.

While civilization is relatively strong, yes the humanists can be generous, but would that last if gangs roamed the world raping and pillaging? Would they find the strength to rise out of such dystopia, or would every effort crumble under the weight of "every person for themselves?"

Look at how easily the infrastructure groaned under the weight of the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles. I remember looking from my office down at Wilshire Boulevard while a gang of youths smashed into a major drug store in front of the Ambassador Hotel, taking whatever they wanted. My call to the police reached an overworked volunteer.

When spiritual guidance leaves planet Earth, ego will take over and it won't look pretty. I'd rather not be here when it happens.
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  LookingForWaldenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why do people think we need religion to be good to eachother?
  Your lack of belief in humanity is unsettling.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Religions drive egos to believe they are righteous in their beliefs, hence they are justified to commit atrocities.
  
  Non-belief in religions does not drive the ego as reason and rational preclude it.
  
  That is exactly what religions don't accomplish, they conquer and divide us, never bringing us together as one entity. With religions, it is impossible to not have "us verses them"
  
  Pure baloney. We would have never seen things like Apollo 11 had religions maintained their control over us.
  
  Reason and logic would dictate roaming around in gangs raping and pillaging is absolutely not beneficial for anyone. You make no sense at all.
  
  Are you saying you know for a fact those folks were not believers? LOL!
  
  Considering secular societies today have nothing to do with ego, you're analysis is completely backwards.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Religions drive egos to believe they are righteous in their beliefs, hence they are justified to commit atrocities.
  
  come on. Atrocities are committed everyday by people who have no adherence to any religion. Atrocities happen in every aspect of life. The Christian Way denies self(ish) acts when followed correctly. These are the people you don't hear about or are not addressing. You take a few baddies, multiply by whatever number you feel like and then say its the majority, well i do not agree. You can say it happens, you can even show me where it has happened but you still deny the other side of the coin. Atrocities are a part of human nature, they happen because people can make choices and often the choices that people make involve personal gain not Christian beliefs.
  
  Non-belief in religions does not drive the ego as reason and rational preclude it.
  
  Yah right. Those who do not have any restraint at all upon them, naturally, decline to ego. Who are you trying to fool? Reason and rationale preclude ego, maybe eggo and let go of it will ya.
  
  That is exactly what religions don't accomplish, they conquer and divide us, never bringing us together as one entity. With religions, it is impossible to not have "us verses them"
  
  In the light of persuasive evidence, which boasts more for Christianity than any other religion, when people, like yourself, run amok with short snippy comments that basically are unfounded and just rants and raves, is it any amazement to you that you perceive division? that you perceive cruelty? And yet what you fail to realize is that, the christian has moved on. The Christian has left the building. No harm, no foul. while you stand there fuming and blaming religious division. Yet people who do not support your favorite sports team are losers. Those christians who have an opposite belief about God than you do, are whatever you term them and i bet its not nice.
  
  Pure baloney. We would have never seen things like Apollo 11 had religions maintained their control over us.
  
  You are right, space travel i suspect doesn't interest Christians because we already know the answers to whats out there and all the emphasis is place here, on this planet. The billions of dollars each year spent on space related interests could be much better spent on other things. Apollo 11 has not dropped the price of gas, or brought us cheaper food, in short, has done nothing to better our lifestyles. I am sorry you are so disappointed. lol
  
  lol Reason and logic would dictate roaming around in gangs raping and pillaging is absolutely not beneficial for anyone. You make no sense at all.
  
  Yet this is something that has happened over the course of history and it is entirely ego driven.
  
  Considering secular societies today have nothing to do with ego, you're analysis is completely backwards.
  
  I think you should get back to the analysis board and try to regurgitate something that is informed.
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Sue Adamsposted 11 years ago
Yes
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brotheryochananposted 11 years ago
The wrong assumption that many of the simple minded atheists are rolling with here is that

Religion has to do with a civilizations survival.
To ask if we will survive as a civilization without religion is too put religion in the roll of causing civilization to survive and that is completely NOT the role of religion.

The wheels are in motion for civilization (needs defining) to populate, which is not surviving, its just upward numbers, so we can safely say that without religion civilization will increase in numbers.

But can we say the same about policing? or the military. If we take away the military will civilization survive? If we take away policing, will civilization survive? Policing is more easy to make assumptions about, the answer may be no.

To those who want to self rule, remember there are others who want to self rule also and their idea of self ruling may include your stuff and may not include you alive. To assume that all people who self rule will do better have not met up with the self rulers who really want a chance to rule everything. Police in every civilization, everywhere perform the duty of keeping the public and its assets safe. How many people smash a store window while a police car is nearby?

Religion is not in the business of causing or even helping civilization to survive. I can not speak for all religions, but i do know about the christian way.

The Way is much more personal, interacting with individuals, its very personal and of course the higher numbers of people in The Way the better the worlds situation, albeit, the world and its civilizations would survive with lower numbers also.

Survival of civilizations is not something that The Way is concerned about, it is concerned about how connected to God is each person in the way and civilization can go about its own surviving.
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  Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I’m with you, but you have to slow down a bit to make your point. "Making civilization" is not the “role” of religion, but you must admit it has served as the RESULT of religion. Having religion has provided foundations for governance and, more importantly, guidelines for comprehensive social behaviors that are not only enforceable by police, but actually enforceable by, at least in concept, a divine being that can condemn transgressors to eternal damnation or other excruciatingly undesirable eternal outcomes, which encourages compliance from those who have bought into the possibility/dogma.
  
  You have to admit that having a common set of rules, a common set of rituals and practices, a common set of religious stories to share between people as a communal mechanism for understanding A) what moral behavior is, and B) why it matters, both have value for holding societies together. It is not an accident that every single human society in all of history, on every continent, through every epoch in all known societies, no matter how small, ancient or primitive have always, in every instance, without any single instance ever deviating from this singular fact... they've all had religions. Every one. Nonetheless, obviously, and some religions being more successful at spreading and crushing others, but, not withstanding, always a religion (or several) have been in place, in every human social/civil enterprise. Period. You can find no scholarship anywhere to dispute this.
  
  It’s a human thing. The only difference between these literally tens of thousands of religions is what they called the gods, how the creation myths explained the world and the universe, and the disposition of human spirits after death… and of course the rituals so entwined. But the over-arching point is that religion DOES help civilization survive.
  
  The complicating factor is that what you are calling “civilization” suggests a singular thing. As if there were one. There isn’t. We’re trying to get there, it seems. Maybe we will, maybe we won’t. Seems unlikely. Seems undesirable, frankly, and I’m pretty comfortable believing it can’t happen. But, regardless, that is the recorded and massively documented truth about religion.
  
  It has NOTHING to do with atheists or believers. So, calling atheists “simple minded” is not really useful to a conversation about all of this. A simple minded atheist could just as easily call you a simple minded believer. Great. So everyone is calling each other names. That’s going to lead to meaning, truth and deeper understanding of our human experience in the universe. Or maybe not.
  
  Not only do I agree with this, this remark is profoundly written. A harpoon straight into the actuality of now. Nicely done.
  Here you are onto something too. Policing is the enforcement of a set of laws. Laws are derived from a philosophical center of a civilization (not a global one, a real one, a nation, and, more accurately, a community). Policing is the use of force to regulate compliance to law. Law reflects values, which, while there are some “golden rule” things that are obvious, are often tweaked and weirdified by religion putting pressure on stuff. For example, old guys getting to marry 10-year-old girls for 90 days in certain sects of Islam, or certain Mormon subsets allowing polygamy and marriage to little girls too. Etc. In one society (or one part of it), we’ll set the police against those bastards! In another society, we’ll set the police against anyone who criticizes the edicts of God! It becomes a democracy (hegemony/theocracy/... blah blah) of influence and privilege…. all ugly and complicated and very, very human. Which is why religions keep getting reinvented to suit the times they are in.
  
  Religion is a thing of man. If there is a god, he is NOT talking to us. Believing that he has is to pick ONE arbitrary set of stories out of tens of thousands and call it truth while totally ignoring all the other evidence of literally everything else in all of human history but one single story book. And that’s fine. If it gets you from birth to the grave happily, awesome. But to insist upon it with police force is the real and most pressing danger of the modern human experience as lived over the last two thousand years.
  
  What you call the way, thousands of other religions call other stuff. But, in the end, it’s the golden rule. It’s respect and acknowledgement of the human reality that is difference. It’s a suppression of greed and lust and other base instincts that are left over from the well-proven and endlessly documented process of evolution that our species has undergone. Eventually, if things like religion don’t prove to be the reason we destroy ourselves, hopefully, we will, in time, evolve into creatures who don’t need the imaginative stories of magic and wonder to frighten us or awe us into recognizing what is in our best interest for survival and growth. 
  
  Sorry, I’ m a science fiction writer. Where you believe in a God as defined by one particular narrative, I believe in goodness, hope and intelligence (which has continued to function all along, despite the demise of many, many, many particular gods). I think humanity will make it for the very reason that it keeps trying to make up new gods and religions.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  nice post and a good read. Thanks.
  Its impossible to cover all the bases on this one and i was not interested in doing so, so my post was brief.
  
  I do believe that because of religion societies have endured through the ages. In the OT God wanted to show himself through one people to other nations. In the NT things are more personal, there is individual connections to God and God can be experienced and even loved. This is so good and so wonderful that to have it eradicated would be heartbreaking - literally.
  
  Everything with man gets abused. Religion is a good cloak for criminals to hide behind. Lawyers are good for rich crooks. That's human nature coupled with an "everyone for themselves" attitude. Religions have tried to suppress this selfish aspect of humanity putting weight on heftier matters of truth and goodness and selflessness, which is just what God is all about.
  
  Its not imaginative stories that cause people to believe in God. This is what many atheists balk at. "How can you believe in stone age myths, and such ludicrous stories". Only because the stories are transcended by belief in God which comes first. Its not the other way around. The stories have no weight or even credibility if there is no belief in God first.
  Jerichos walls have been archeologically discovered which just adds another bit of concrete to the building of faith.
  
  Also God does not believe in democracy, He believes in monarchy in subjection to Him. Look at the OT and read revelations when He comes back to rule. Democracy can be dangerous in many ways.
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LookingForWaldenposted 11 years ago
There is legitimate surveys that show correlation between religousness and education levels in America.
Religousness as far belief in god, frequency of going to church, and so on.
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Perspycaciousposted 11 years ago
Humans can, but civilization would soon disappear.
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1. 65
  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm....please elaborate on that...interesting point u made...
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2. 59
  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible does not keep civilizations together, it breaks them down and keeps us apart.
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That's interesting but I think very inaccurate.
  
  Christians preach the word and if the word is not accepted, they move on. Christians do not force people to conform. The catholics did at one time and all that got them in the end was a bad rep and did more harm than good.
  
  The bible has only been concerned with keeping one civilization together and that is Gods people, who can be any race, color or anyone. In this scenario, the bible today unites people, of course there is apparent divisions, but essentially and at the core: those who love God cannot help but love others.
  
  The us that is kept apart is the same division that keeps one hockey fan from another, or one political persuasion from another. Every person has their own belief systems and each belief systems helps to ostracize someone else.
  In essence all beliefs put people on the outside of their belief if that other belief is different. This is the inherent nature of believing in anything. Atheists believe that the bible breaks down and keeps people apart but if one is not an atheist they cannot be part of the atheist camp. The same for cat lovers and dog lovers.
  
  Within the new covenant I would not be too obsessed with general observations stemming from obvious bias' because what Christians in That Way try to do is enhance peoples lives with their knowledge of God and if the hearer declines, there is no bludgeoning.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we now have laws that don't allow Christians to torture or murder people for not conforming to Christianity.
  
  Yes, it is interesting how you ignore Christianities past atrocities.
  
  Yes, the bible is only concerned with it's own followers, while the rest of us are demons who will burn for an eternity. You also confused love with evangelizing.
  
  "Apparent divisions"
  
  LOL! That is so far fetched it's absolutely silly.
  
  Notice that you admit belief systems divide us.
  
  LOL! Yes, that's why the rest of us deal in realities.
  
  Once again, your real world examples are completely silly in light of reality.
  
  Enhance peoples lives? No bludgeoning?
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Bard of Elyposted 11 years ago
Animals do much better without religion and that is all we are so why do we need it?
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  brotheryochananposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  we think, therefore we are more than just an animal.
  
  Do two fighting lions do better than those people living in comfy situations. The animal world is a vicious world, filled with bickering, fights, territorial disputes, uncivilized mating rituals.
  
  Though many humans prefer to decline from the God of the bible, much good is done everyday to those who believe.
  
  But why do we need it? That is totally subjective.
  Some people can answer that question and it would really have to be based on personal experience. Personal experience speaks volumes for the person experiencing God and the person who is about too. But of a certainty, those who eliminate God from the scenario always ask the question, "why do i need it".
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lone77starposted 8 years ago
No.

But it cannot survive with ego-infested religion, either. It's like a flame that needs more fuel and oxygen and cannot continue without them. If you mix lots of water with your fuel, you increase the chances the fuel won't burn at all. Civilization cannot continue with unbridled ego (self-concern). It needs spirituality (the heart of religion) in order to thrive.

The only True Religion is Love. And most people have crazy ideas about "love." So, we need to define this term. True Love has no self-concern. It contains endless generosity. Because it has no self-concern, forgiveness is effortless. This True Love is 100% responsible for all the actions of others, even those of evil. And too many people equate "responsibility" with "blame." They're not even close. True Love is utterly humble and fearlessly confident. True Love has an open door to creation and thus all manner of miracles.

Take away all of this and you reduce humanity to the least common denominator -- Ego (self-concern). You find that humans will fall into Newtonian, action-reaction behavior we know more commonly as perpetrator-victim. The Bible described this as wailing and gnashing. Civilization will crumble when spirit is removed.
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  Dudley Dorightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I think we can be spiritual and have spirituality without a formal religion. Religion is simply a tax exempt business. Think of how much better our environment would be if we all stopped that drive to church on Sunday morning.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  We can go further than that. We can be spiritual and have spirituality without a god, without priests and without all the myths that religion has given us. No mountain gods, no sun god, no moon goddess; just the spirituality inside each of us. We don't even need the old creation or other magic tales to become spiritual.
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  Dudley Dorightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to agree, but I've given it some thought and am forced to admit you are right.
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