Study thread for Christians to discuss God's Holy Living Word.
Jesus Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords!
Well it would be if we could actually HOLD a discussion between Bible agreeing Christians.
Instead the circus runs on in and shows us just exactly where the conflict DOES come from..
It does doesn't it? Obviously the conflict comes from those trying to separate people in to different groups and shunning those who are different.
It is a terrible and disgusting act don't you think?
Yeah, so why are you tryjng to make me refuse my Jesus?
I'm not seperating you. It's a CATEGORY.. Aware of those?
You disagree with the MAIN TRUTH'S OF THE 'CATEGORY'.
You really have nothing better to do? What is your point here? You don't even agree with the SUBJECT AS A WHOLE.. So you are here to de-rail the subject...
I don't even know why I bother being kind enough to ignore the spam button.. lol
Go be with your birdy friends, as if you NEVER heard 'birds of a feather flock...' WHAT? I'll wait n see if you can solve the riddle buddyyyy..
I'm not trying to MAKE you do anything
Categories do not require ostrasisation of others.
Derail the subject? Are you saying you don't want to look at things from all perspectives? Just YOUR OWN perspective and everyone else can go away?
Thanks for the insults/. I would'nt expect any less of a devout literalist such as yourself.
I do agree, which is why A Troubled Man might practice what he preaches.
Wait, he does!
Why is this thread only for christians? Are you racist too?
I doubt it!
I think he, like many of us, would L O V E to have a discussion with other Christians without you "botherers" jumping in with your meddling.
I started one for "fools" only, and still y'all came.
You and vector are a shining light as to the ostracism and prejudice of religion.
Ostricism and prejudice are not n the conversstion until you mention them. Truth is available for ALL willing hearts. Black, white, brown, tall, short, fat, skinny and ALL in between. There's a war going on. Pick a side.
"Pick a side"
So you agree that religion divides people.
I won't speak for genaea,
but YES, religion divides.
We don't have to agree with YOU about that. It's an established truth.
Or is it only now that you are waking up to that?
Ha ha! U mirrored the Spirit as I. God approves of our message.
No I am already aware of it. I just think it is disgusting that's all.
Yes, haven't u been listen%ng. Jesus came to divide yeas from nays. Which are you?
I am one who thinks that dividing people is disgusting and there is no need for it.
Send God a stern letter. He will be gladto hear from you.
I used to write to santa when I was a kid but then I grew up.
Jesus said that he came to divide people. He said he would divide people at the last day into sheep and goats. Therefore, yes, Jesus is a divisive figure.
Perhaps Jesus simply was planning the menu for The Last Supper ? "Okay lets see, we got mutton for Peter and Mary Magdelene--the little lady loves a tender lamb chop--and as for Judas...well, he always gets my goat"!
But it's not just religion that divides people. It's any kind of prejudice, whether it be racial, sexual, ethnic, or religious or anti-religious. I don't know about you, but there are at least two people posting on this forum who are anti-religious and who will hound somebody to death if they are allowed. One of them will try it even if he's not.
Indeed prejudice is what seperates people and religion breeds prejudice.
Perhaps, but I see no evidence that the absence of religion means a corresponding absence of prejudice. If someone can show me, I'd love to see!
I am not sure how your argument bears any relevance. Are you saying that just because religion is not the only cause of prejudice that it is acceptable?
No, that's not at all what I said.
Religion is acceptable because it's true. God is real and the Bible is His word. Do I think you beleive that? No, but that is what I'm saying.
As for the other part, I'm saying that prejudice is part of the landscape. A lot of people (including you, if I read you correctly) state (or at least imply) that religion is the reason for all the strife in the world, as if the sudden disappearance of religion would make the world a sweet, loving place. If only that were true.
I never made such a claim. Religion causes a lot of conflicts in the world but nowhere near all of them. If religion were removed from the planet there would still be a lot of conflict, but where is the harm in removing each and every cause for conflict one by one?
I apologize for jumping to a conclusion about you.
From my own perspective, "religion" has definitely caused a lot of strife in the world, but if everyone lived out what Jesus said, even if it was just the Christians, the world would be a better place.
Just my opinion.
Perhaps. But there's no evidence that I've seen that an absence of religion also means an absence of prejudice. If you've got the evidence, please show me!
Hate false definitions of "religion" - LOVE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY AND HIS HOLY FATHER - GOD - AND THE HOLY GHOST (IMMACULATE) - THE LIVING WORD FOREVER - Amen
Fortunately for ANYONE, The Holy Word is ALSO In Writing - Very USEFUL.
Try reading The New Testament WITHOUT criticism - THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THIS FORUM POST - Glory To the Word Made Flesh - Selah
† James 1 : 27 †
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
Chill out guys - Listen to this. VERY COOL MUSIC :
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … -A-Cry.mp3
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … onders.mp3
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … oJESUS.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINKS AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE.
THE WORD OF GOD FROM THE LIVING WORD OF GOD - AMEN
Searching for a convincing word. Can't you see they are thirsty souls searching for s yruth that eludes them for the lack of faith? Come unto me all ye who are heavy laden... It is hard to carry the weght of disbelief. God surrounds them.
I've been here a wee little while, ans see no signs of them searching.
My deepest hope is that it's true, they ARE searching, but the evidence is to the contrary.
I see. I just feel that "non-believers" put a lot of emphasis on the "nothing" that God is to them. Personally, you can't get me to have a 5min conversation on the existence of the "actual" tooth-fairy.
Some do. I've had some great conversations with non-believers, even if they sometimes get heated. It all depends on if they have a historical or intellectual perspective or if they just want to spend all their time talking about how horrible religious people are.
I have a site on facebook where we can have a bible study if you like We can make a discussion and hold a bible study. That'll be fun. I would love to get to know more Christians online here at HubPages.
Just click like.
Yes, can we discuss about bible study together?
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
I'm not ignoring the OP. I just want to read this in context and look more into it.
Oh no.. lol You post anything you want regarding the Bible. [or Jesus or God, or anything acceptable in Christianity for that matter]
If you are a Christian [Hold Christ as Saviour and God] and want to discuss further points regarding the Bible, any of it to come to better understanding...
Then please feel free to do so! It's what this is here for. [if I can find some fly traps that is.]
The context of Matthew 10 was that Jesus was sending out His disciples to proclaim the Gospel and do works in Jesus' name. This was part of His set of instructions, including an admonishment to "count the cost" because people were going to hate Him and they would hate those who went out in His name. The people He was referring to were the Pharisees and the Scribes, who were experts in the (Mosaic) Law, the very Law that Jesus was claiming to fulfill. The upshot of this is that you shouldn't think that "Christian Freedom" means we don't have to obey ANY of the laws of Moses, and that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies in the Old Testament.
Jesus is using figurative language to illustrate that we are to put Him first because he is God. Our lives on earth are just a whispy vapor, compared to our lives with Christ in Heaven. Most of us need to be reminded of the temporal aspect of life.
Matthew again! I'm beginning to realize all scripture which seems to be suggesting God has a problem with self esteem means something entirely different. One may ask any different Christian offshoot cult and get a different answer to what a certain piece of scripture really means.
Someone on these forums once asked me what sort of miracle it would take to make me believe there is a Christian god. I replied it wouldn't take anything spectacular, such as an earthquake, a sign from the heavens, or even having a little talk with Jesus. Nothing so dramatic as these things.
I said all it would take is for all of the Christian cults to get together, and once and for all, decide what the bible really means in its scripture and books. This way, even those of us who don't believe can get all of you guys to give the same answers to the same questions. As it is, some of you fine Christians are in for a shock, because all of you cannot be right.
Have you taken a look at the fact that not even your scholars agree? We just believe that there is only one way. We call it Jesus. You may call your many realities, thoughts, what have you, andplace them into the box of uncertainty and figure til your heart's content. Then when you realized all your reading only leaves you with more questions and additional inner turmoil. Send me an email. I will help you crossover.
In other words, the answer you prefer for everything is 'Goddunit' so that you can turn off the brain and not have to think about anything because to you thinking is equivalent to "inner turmoil"
No, not thinking, but thinking with a mind that does not look to God is what leads to turmoil. You annot find the "answer" to every question. You as hum&n, mortal do not posess the ability to understand "all things" you will be learning until your 1007th birthday andstill only 1 or 2 thigs are sure. However, when you surrender to God you dont have to know it all, you kno who holds your future and you become ecstatic! Because the "search" is over. Learning of him is much more fun anyway.
And yess... I like Goddunit. Nothing else "really" matters.
So, you believe anyone who doesn't believe as you do is in turmoil.
So what. Your answer to every question isn't an answer at all.
Surrendering to gods means you learn nothing and remain ignorant.
There's nothing to learn, which isn't very much fun at all, that is, unless you believe turning off the brain is fun.
NO, that is the answer YOU want to impose on us. The funny thing is, no matter how often you're shown that it's not, you don't believe it!
Where is Jesus having a problem with self esteem?
The craving for attention and worship from those beneath him indicates a lack of self esteem, Chris. Otherwise he would not care if anyone worshiped him or not. I raise cattle, but don't expect them to adore me even though they are less intelligent than I. Why would a supreme being need anyone to worship him? Doesn't he already know he is at the top?
The problem with your analogy is that people do worship things. They worship sex, drugs, politics, experience, football, money, God, Allah, and John Lennon. God just wants us to worship Him, rather than other things. And if you really knew God, you'd understand why it's better than any of the other things.
Of course in the short term, Jesus was talking to practicing Jews and they needed to understand that if they believed on Him as the Messiah, there was going to be strife and division in their households.
Of course, it's proven to be prophetic in that any person who comes to saving faith in Jesus runs the risk of being at odds with members of their own household. Sometimes with their blood relatives but also within the family of man.
"I still believe that he was speaking in terms of the church."
What do you mean? I don't think I'm understanding you exactly.
I am speaking about all the problems he had with the church. Wasn't there a priest involved in the perpetuation of the crucifiction. The church didn't appreciateh%m claiming to be a larger authority. He made them look bad with his onstant rebuke of their ways. The family refs in the script seem like descriprions of those with close ties ie. The church. The holy place curtain was ripped. He was angry with the church for making up laws and rituals to hinder their walk. No argument. just wanna see it clearly. I will hit the link when I wake up. Thanks. You are my brother.
Now, as far as what you are saying I'm pretty sure you are talking about the pharisees, or the 'traditions' devotees and 'high-seat' holders.
Which He did have plenty to say about, and this applies in that category too.
Will write what I know when I wake. Knocking out myself.
Oh, ok. A new spot to talk. This is the link anialreadyhitit;) don't know if u slept yet, but I didnt. I'm beat. I will definitely talk to you tomorrow. I'm excited to meet a kindred spirit.
Matthew 4:19 "And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men."
This incredibly immoral quote has caused more conflict and atrocities throughout history than any other. And yet, we see here on these forums so many Christians so willing, able and defiant of all who stand in their way to continue the conflict.
??? Please elaborate. How does fishing for men cause conflict?
As an aside, in the 1970s Icelandic trawlers were fishing in British territorial waters which upset the Scots and led to the so called Cod Wars.
It's called evangelism and does little more than cause conflict as history has shown us.
I'm not your 'buddy' nor am to anyone who is so dishonest.
You aren't a Christian?
What ae you doing in here then?
Good one! I thought the same thing! Our Spirits agree he came to be transformed. He's got ques...we have answ. Fish!
All I see is sheeple.
Female sheeple that go against the word of god and preach at men as well.
STan is happy with you.
Satan is unhappy with me. And so are you. I haveno prob with the fact that u2 agree. I have spoken nothing but the truth as it is given to me.
Still going against the word of god I see.
Oh well - you don't actually believe - do you?
I'm not crazy, thank the dark lord below. Satan is a myth and is an analogy for our own wicked ways.
Opinion? Who wrote the bible? What was life like back then? How were natural events percived? Can you answer that without the bible? Do you not see the utter foolishness of many of it's claims?
The bible's claims have been proven over and over ahain for me personally. Foolishness is not in the bible. Foolishness is in our hearts. We must study and ask God for the correct intrrpretation. He gives us all we need to make an informed decision on what we decide to choose.
Look, we have the causes for conflict.
Non-Christians insisting on coming into a Christian based thread just to babble at us.
Wow. Seems hypocrisy abounds.
Hmmmm. Didn't I see you on the atheist and agnostic threads? And now you are calling someone who comes on this one a hypocrite? I now believe you are indeed a true christian. Keep on digging that hole deeper until you finally get out!
Oh yeah, who is on the first page of this thread? Oh look, it's you! Now how could that have happened? Hypocritical just a little are you? Get out of this one if you can, Vector! Do the Christian thing if you gonna talk the talk? What's that? Speak up a bit, I can't hear you. ,
Ooooh, your other atheist friends may not like to hear you say that!
They are all righteous and faultless, you know!
There is no evil, or wicked in them.
These are just mere concepts, and therefore, don't exist.
Evil, and wicked are religionist fabrications in order to control the masses, against which they rebelled using their superior intellect, reason and logic.
Besides, you can neither prove, nor demonstrate your ridiculous claims!
I don't think evangelism is the problem. Certain people evangelizing is the problem. Sadly, I can't stick up for a lot of history. This faith has been twisted and manipulated to fit personal and political agendas...but it's the person messing up the content, not the content. If strife was caused by between one religion and another, somewhere someone crossed a line and didn't walk away when they should have. My gut gets twisted over this. "Christians" have been their worst enemy. I see a trend of believers coming up that see this. I'm hopeful.
Amen sister - They have ALWAYS been here - Alleluia
Right click link and open and enjoy...
† 1 Corinthians 1 : 1 - 3 †
"Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ."
Quite the contrary, it's brought more peace than any scientific advance ever has.
Fishing for men causes conflict because satan dont like it.
I agree, but I think (in general wherever these debates come up) the point is people. People (fisherman) didn't follow the example like they should have. THAT has caused soo much grief.
NO Conflict - ONLY wrong interpretation and misunderstanding by people who have YET to Understand The Holy truth of ALL The Ages.
Don't judge Evangelism for The Salvation of souls by the historic misdeeds fo "some" errant denominations.
The REAL author of the conflict and the atrocities is The Evil spirit of satan.
Mankind's sin HAS fed that Wicked Tempter across the past 1988 years or so.
JESUS Is The Full Truth - SET YOUR EYES AND HEART ON HIM ONLY.
He IS sin-LESS...
How about you? What do YOU do about YOUR sin?
† Matthew 7:13-14 † †
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate,
and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way,
which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
ZECHARIAH PROPHECY ABOVE SHOULD READ "WRITTEN 487 BC"
How the heck would you know if that measurement of time was accurate? How would you know if John Usher wasn't just another primitive mathemetician? When he put together the time line, it was only acceptable because the pope at the time agreed with it.
How would YOU know the date is not Correct ????
Anyhow, the full answer to your timeline interest is in the reply comments section of a recent Hub....
http://elijah7.hubpages.com/hub/ANSWER- … M-QUESTION
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … l-Amen.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINKS AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE.
† Matthew 1 : 17 †
"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."
THE PERFECTION OF CHRIST IS THE CHARACTER OF MAZZAROTH
You've proven your leevel of intelligence, leave the debating to the adults.
"leevel" DURR - Sorrwwyyyy - True though - i am just A Child......
† Numbers 16 : 28 †
"And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind."
† Romans 1 : 28 - 32 †
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Why would he want to do that?
Hi brother - Is that question for me? Couldn't quite tell...
Never mind, for The Record (no secrets - "open book"), i have ALWAYS Believed - just NEVER did anything about it (a failed sinner) until The Full Water Baptism in Hawaii in December 1984. Then a Direct Contact from God in January 1985. Then a Stream of Signs and Wonders until December 8th 1985 (Sunday) 3.00 PM when The Huge Call To Preach was CONFIRMED.
Then January 1986 The Gift of Tongues was GIVEN...Been a never ending Stream ever since until NOW - Glory To JESUS Only !!! - Amen
Love, Hope & Truth - Maranatha & Mizpah
† Galatians 6 : 14 †
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world."
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … fGrace.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE - Crank Up The Volume - Amen
Immoral??? How is Jesus being immoral by saying the truth? Jesus came and made a lot of fishers. He did what he said and still does it... Thousands of years later. He makes even you, who does not even believe, to speak his words. AWESOME!!!
There is no truth in evangelism, only conflict.
Said the man coming into a Christian Bible study to throw insults at believers.
There is no evangelism here. The OP states plainly "for Christians"..
What's your purpose being here again? Oh yeah, conflict..
Intellectually dishonest again? Shameful behavior.
So it is... And always will be. We wrestle not against flesh and blood...
Wow, so YOU insult me personally and then agree that it is us who are insulting you and that it's always been that way. Absolutely shameful behavior.
Satan hates to lose one of his own.
He fights it with all he has at his disposal, including willing servants!
Know what I mean?
"Hmmmm. Didn't I see you on the atheist and agnostic threads?"
Yep, and it's been pointed out in the past and I'm not taking my Christianity there any longer.
And the OP doesn't state 'for atheists' lol, atheism is the --> subject..
Not certain, but think it's been a good while since I've done it anyway.
So why are YOU here? To point the finger at me?
Of course not, Vector. I simply like it when a hypocrite complains about someone else being a hypocrite. If the shoe fits.....
This forum is placed under bible study. I would wager I've studied the bible, and the history of the old tome and it's writers, much more than the average fundamentalist. I have no idea of your biblical knowledge or qualifications, but I would be surprised if they were anything out of the ordinary. Didn't I ask you about this before?
When youstudied, did yu ask God to help you understand it or did you study searching for a discrepancy?
I thought I was supposed to follow Jesus to be a Christian. This not so for me, for one simple reason: Christ was the consciousness, Jesus was the person. One should forget about the person and find within the self what he found.
Mischevious? Do you really feel we can find the way in us?
It's possible, as long as one can let go of worldly attachment. One must find the higher truth within the self and then apply it.
I just believe that the Spirit of God within us is where that truth is located. God must be there.
If you choose to call it God, so be it. Some would call it life or chi, others may call it collective consciousness. The belief in God is no different that of the above.
I searched to find out if there was any truth in it at all. Some of the places can be verified, but most of the characters cannot. One doesn't have to look for discrepancies in the bible. They are plenty to be found simply without searching.
No, I didn't ask god to help me understand it. I've been reading all of my life. Why would god make his handbook hard to understand, especially with the amount of illiterate folks living then and now? And besides, I've got outstanding and highly educated biblical scholars like you and Vector to explain it for me!
I always READ them before I decide if they are ridiculous or not. Even yours, though I already know they are likely to be so. Next insult?
Randy. Will Godwin you??? Yes, seems he told you that long ago
But which one, that is the question? I might go for Osiris. You might like him too, Genaea. He was born of a virgin, was the son of a god, died and was raised on the 3rd day, and this was over 1000 years before Jesus was said to have existed. Strange, almost all of the ancient gods had similar traits.
Isn't it coincidental Jesus would have many of the same traits other gods had long before he was born? He seemed to combine all of the ancient gods into one somehow. Hmmmm. I suppose your God just wasn't a very original guy and had to copy those "fake" gods to get what he wanted in a son. Yes, I'm sure it's merely a coincidence. But I'm sure you already know this from your studies in ancient history.
For me... The words of thebible are the final authority. Maybe prophesy. Only one God. All others imitate. No one like Jesus and no other name can save souls. You don't have to believe me.
Gee! When did you guys have time to attend church today? I know really earnest Christians attend church services at least twice a day every Sunday, even if they have to walk. Of course, other less religious Christians miss quite a few sermons and merely talk the talk.
Which are you? A walker or a talker?
Try the spirit by the spirit and see if it be of God. the truth stands.
You're not much on answering questions are you, Genaea? How are unenlightened souls going to learn anything if you simply keep ignoring questions?
The spirit by the spirit? I was taught not to imbibe in strong spirits. I think it's in the bible somewhere.
Ok, now we know where your faith lies. Thanks, your input hasbeen appreciated.
You have a "faith detector"? Now that would come in real handy in church. No, on second thought, everyone would be afraid to attend!
You forgot "for Christians" there Doc Obvious..
Is it that hard to read or? All CAPS NEXT TIME?
But it didn't say REAL Christians, Vector. Otherwise no one would have began the thread or posted on it either.
It says Christians.
And you blatently state you're not.
So why exactly are you here? Bored?
All those subjects more important than God just slip your mind or something?
You guys talk so big, but you keep runnin back to the Christians..
Can't get enough of me can ya ol' Randy boy?
Poor fella. I thought we were deluded? You got nothing better to do than hang out with poor old deluded people?
Seriously man. The more I see your face in this forum the more I'm going to rag on you because it shows just what your intentions are.
No hiding behind that phony mess you people like to throw around here buddyyyy.. Might need to hit that bottle of anti-ignorance pills you got again..
You didn't notice your ring leader Mark hit the road cuz he's smart??
You can stick around. Just don't expect me to buy your 'noble cause'...
Not gonna cry are you? Okay, I know you're getting all misted up so I'll leave you alone for a while. There, there honey chile,. Genaea, you gotta kleenex for this boy? Be sure and wipe his eyes before his nose now. Ya heah!
See, vector7??? We wrestle not flesh... The devil feelsbetter when he upsets you. Jesus simply stated, "get behind me..." There is work to do. It aint personal.
Naa, buddy. Go on n stay.. LOLOL..
You aren't bothering me. Why would I cry?
I know you don't wanna leave buddy.
Even if it is a bunch of Christians.
You stay right here with daddy.
Without The Baptism of The Holy Ghost randy - NO HOPE OF UNDERSTANDING HOLY SCRIPTURE PROPERLY.
Without The Simple Faith To Be Baptized By Water, much LESS chance of The Baptism Of The Holy Ghost.
Without The Holy Spirit Leading AND thine OWN Repentance, NO Chance for you to ACQUIRE even The Simple Faith...
My PERSONAL Prayer randy IS :
"That The Lord WILL Have Mercy on YOU PERSONALLY, and WILL Contact YOU, as He hath ALREADY DONE with MOST Truly Saved Christan souls - MANY of whom you know in these Forum Posts ALREADY - Father PLEASE Lord, In The Almighty Holy Name of JESUS Christ ALIVE In Heaven RIGHT NOW - Amen & Amen & Amen"
randy - TAKE THIS SONG TO HEART BELOW, (be honest) - Listen To ALL The Words PROPERLY, and say that this DOES NOT "Move YOU", even just a little - Amen]
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … rCross.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE (Crank Up The Volume)
† Acts 2 : 38 †
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
"Hypocritical just a little are you?"
Now point out where I told them their belief in oblivion or disbelief in God was wrong..
I've got an out there comment...
Is it possible that "demons" are all pagan created beings that do not exist? When you think about it, our minds are powerful things. We can scare ourselves into thinking we hear, see or even touched things that aren't physically there. In the bible it talks about Jesus casting out demons, yet in the old testament, demons were not mentioned, only idols. Is it possible Jesus was making people more sane? I mean, no other being in the universe has the power of God and if they did, or even lesser power, they would be considered gods, and God said it himself, He is the one and only.
King James Version (KJV)
"16They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."
Is believing that something has enough power to cause sickness, death and intervene with one's life like saying God doesn't have the only authority?
Now I am not 100% on this, just a thought that came to mind after some reading. I still have to speak with God and read the bible more.
I gotta read more too. But if u mean Jesus having authority... I believe the things he did were done under God's authority. He performed miracles with God's power. Jesus prayed to the Father. They are described as one bcuz they agreed in Spirit. One accord.
I'm pretty sure [don't count me self-righteous here, just spent lots of time in study involving them] that demons are angels that have turned against God as utter enemies with a burning hatred.
When Jesus cast the demons from the two men, he allowed their 'request' to ["suffer us" - they speak to him and call Him the Son of God] go into tne herd of pigs [swine].
Satan is told by Christ to have been seen falling as lightning from God's kingdom by Him.
God has final say [example - Job]
Revelation says he that overcomes [overcomes the enemies lies and trusts God] will inherit all things.
They are called 'gods' because there shall be no god's before God. People made them their 'idol' which isn't a real 'god' but a false god. A person with power but not God.
Satan being called "the god of this world" is in reference to him having influence and spreading lies and deceiving people into serving him. [wide gate to destruction - narrow to life] He tries to rule the world by force, which is why martyrs are special.. They choose God and refuse to bow to the lies trusting God to save them in their attempt to follow and serve Him in righteousness.
I guess that covers what I've collected so far.
I'll try to round up some scriptures and build a Biblical model so the scriptures are the foundation and not just me saying it.
"You are all gods" Jesus, circa 33A.D. (Approx.)
C'mon Druid, not you to man. lol
It says.. "Bible Study"..
ONLY The True Believers, with THE REAL AND ONLY GOD, as their Lord and Source of Inspiration for Worship.
UNBELIEVERS don't qualify for this Revelation Title From JESUS.
In ANY Event - Worship God with a CAPITAL "G".
Reject false "gods" and hearken unto "gods" that Preach The Full Gospel with NO DOUBT - Amen & Amen
STEP ASIDE FALLEN SELF...Let Christ Be Lord WITHIN - Selah...
† Revelation 21 : 7 †
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
So what I read is just more misinterpretation? I am trying to understand the bible and I want to be as right with God and as close to God as possible. I accepted Jesus and pray in his name for forgiveness and everything, but I don't want to be misunderstanding things in the bible.
It is necessary to ask God to show you the correct interpretation when you read. The bibli says to seek and you will find, knock, and the door will open.
Probably the best answer I can get!
Thank you. I seem to often forget I should seek my answers from God directly before other sources. When I go to other sources, I manage to become confused. lol
YES!!! Jesus came to provide a direct link to God the Father. The intercessors of old kept dding stuff and confusing the laws. God is the source. Through Jesus, we can go boldly to God as his own. He gives knowledge of him to all liberally. Study, you learn to hear his voice.
You hear things from god? Maybe you can help me. Could you put him on the phone for me?
Hey hippy - Prayer By Faith In The Holy Name of JESUS To God The Father, CREATOR of ALL Matter and ALL Life.
That's the Phone Number - Call ANYTIME - He IS the Switchboard - Amen
Don't get the number WRONG though.
There's some nasty little creep trying to IMPERSONATE Him.
You REALLY don't want to hear from "IT"
NOTE : The Phone IS The True Faith - AMEN
† Acts 2 : 21 †
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
† Acts 4 : 12 †
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
† Romans 10 : 13 †
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
RELAX WITH SOME COOL MUSIC AND THEN CONSIDER MAKING THE PHONE CALL - A 24 HOUR HOTLINE.
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … dShine.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE - Crank Up The Volume.
Hmm - an impression of BEFORE, without the silly hat and fancy raiment.
A VISION OF AFTERWARDS (40 DAYS LATER) ON THE WAY UP - AMEN
† Acts 1 : 11 †
"Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
ENJOY THIS MUSIC JOMINE - VERY COOL INDEED (REALLY) :
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … -A-Cry.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE - Crank the volume RIGHT UP HIGH !!!
No! Because all of your links suck. And your posts are childish with all of the bright colors and silly photos. You're even embarrassing Jesus with your gibberish.
ALL souls ARE Created By JESUS....
ALL corrupt souls are PERVERTED by satan.
† Isaiah 42 : 5 -7 †
"Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."
Written around 750 BC - Amen
DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP JOMINE, THE FATHER IS TALKING ABOUT JESUS (ABOVE) not you or borgia.
How many times have I told you that I have already read the bible? Stop preaching to me with your nonsense.
I agree with what Vector7 said. It also deals with the book of Revelations. It is the hardest book to understand. In revelations, it talks about a war in heaven. 1/3 of the angels side with the dragon believed to be Satan. God and his angels win the battle. God throws down Satan and his fallen angels to Earth.
When this happens is not made clear. It could have happened during the time period between the Old Testament and the New Testament. I don't know. I do know in the book of Job, that Satan still had God's ear, and could visit him in the throne room.
AFTER The Seventh Day Of Creation (REST) and BEFORE young Eve got "Seduced"..Selah
Bigger Picture Here :
http://www.constellation7.org/Constella … arden2.jpg
Well, have fun. All you Bible studying Christians you. lol
Can't wait to see how many Christians there REALLY are...
This is RICH...
It is better to seek answers on a moderated forum dedicated for Christians.
Somehow I knew as soon as I saw the title this thread would be over run and derailed quickly. I was just surprised it began with the second post.
Someone didn't want this tread to be prosperous in enriching others towards Jesus. Our fight is not physical, but spiritual.
Welcome Bible studies! which side are you on? I don't really understand your post in its entirety.
My name says it all. Technically, Jesus' side.
I know there are a lot of non-Christian's who hate any discussion involving Jesus. They are quick to attack. Any meaningful discussion that may have been made in this thread has been derailed, over thrown, side tracked, or trolled. Which ever way you prefer to think of it.
I believe with my whole heart and soul there God and angels exist along with Satan and his demons.
I honestly believe that as soon as Satan and his minions read the title, he made sure those who would derail this thread would come to it, and hopefully flock to it just for that purpose. It doesn't matter if those who side track the thread believe in any of this or not. The purpose has been served.
The attack isn't coming from the people, but Satan and his minions.
Ephesians 6:12 "12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." KJV
Yes, I quoted that word earlier. Derailed is not the way to describe this forum. God cannot be dersiled. He expects sstan. He is not surprised or thrwn off-track by foolishness. God wins. If one is brought into the light, heaven rejoices! We are procla%ming the gospel and we will not be ashamed or back down. They have questions, we've got answers. God promised that all would know the truth We have a duty to tell it.
Yes, carry on fighting against the infidels.
The world is a fantastic place just so long as you separate yourself from everyone who doesn't believe the same things you do.
You might already have read but I think that is disgusting.
Jesus was a hippy, yes I will fight against the infidels.
You are not an infidel. I already know God loves you. He has a plan and purpose for you. For as long as your alive, he will never quit striving to release you from Satan's hold, and surround you with His loving arms. This goes for anyone else who has attacked God, Jesus, and Christians.
Jesus loves you. No one can ever show you the love he has shown for all of us.
You are not the infidels, it is the evil spiritual beings called demons that are. Yes I will fight them through the power that is in Jesus. Jesus' name is the only way to defeat them. The hatred they have is nothing anyone has experienced on Earth. Even a glimpse of their hatred is 1000 times worse than any hatred you could have ever experienced in your life from another individual. I don't care what type of hate you have experienced or will experience, that is nothing compared from the experience felt from those beings. I would not wish that on anyone. I wish I never experienced it, but I have.
I pray God finds his way into your heart and everyone else's heart who doesn't know him before it is too late.
Unless you can demonstrate your grand claims of a supernatural being to be true then I hope you can realise that from an outside perspective, you sound like any other delusional psychiatric patient who claims relationships with imaginary people.
Except my husband experienced it with me. I have an eye witness. He was physically effected by the experience. I saw, screamed, my husband touched me, it made him violently ill on the spot, said Jesus name, and it was gone.
Well then it is very unfortunate for you and millions of others who cannot provide any evidence of this experience.
Sorry, I didn't have a camera with me at the time, and didn't have time to even think about grabbing one. I know the experience is more real than the keyboard/pad you are using to type on.
All is not lost. Many will be moved by your testimony alone. No pic required.
...and neither did any of the other millions of people who experienced god. Nor were any of their experiences on any of the billions of cctv cameras in the world.
Hippy... You being honest would realize that any pic of miracles can still b explained awa. No pic wud convince you if u won't receive.
Then again even if I had one, you would probably say it is faked whether it is real or not. I have seen some convincing pictures of angels, but they are hard to find in amongst the fake ones. I admit, I never seen an angel though. Maybe someday.
I had the same thing happen when I saw a bigfoot. Of all times to leave my camera in the car, this was the worst. We chatted for a while and he agreed to wait until I went back to the car to get my camera. But wouldn't you know it, he wasn't there when I came back to get his picture.
He looked exactly like the ones on the beef jerky commercials on TV, so I know he was real. Never trust the word of a bigfoot, even if they cross their hearts and hope to die. I can sympathize with your story, BS. Great initials, by the way!
Ok... I lol on that one. why are you here Randy?
The same reason you are, Genaea. To search for the truth and to keep you guys from contaminating unaffected people with your misinformation regarding the old book of myths. The last time one of you Christians tried to burn a witch on here we thought we'd never get rid of the smell. (he got confused and set the seat of his own pants afire and put it out the only way he could think of at the time)
Searching for truth??? Randy, I cud kiss you!!! God will meet you right where you are! Call him... He will answer
By golly you were right, Genaea! Zeus told me the real truth about the bible. You ain't gonna like what he said though!
She will too care, Kay! She always cares what gods have to say. She talks about them all of the time and how great they are.
That's okay, we all make mistakes now and then. In fact, I almost thought you were an adult!
I thought so too, but I'm not.
I'm just a big kid.
Do you have a sense of humor?
I think you are just too ssssssserioussssss, all the time.
You can have videos verified as to their authenticity. I sell cctv systems and my systems are encrypted to ensure that they have not been tampered with which means they will stand up in court as evidence.
Which are you? A satan or a minion? I'm most often considered a minion I think. Although if I can tempt a few more Christians--666--I believe the total number needed is, I get to be satan for while. I'm sharpening up the tines on my pitchfork even as we speak!
Take a LOOK HERE (if you DARE to be wrong) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRNULaTF … r_embedded
ABOVE : Crippled lady WALKS after 23 years in a wheelchair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhpE1CK3 … r_embedded
ABOVE : Multiple OTHER SIMILAR LIVE HEALING MIRACLES on Video - AMEN.
RIGHT CLICK LINKS ABOVE AND OPEN IN NEW WINDOW OR TAB.
† John 14 : 12 †
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
Amen & Amen "BibleStudies" - "genaea"
† Luke 15 : 10 †
"Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … clares.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE - Alleluia !!!
Boo hoo - you just made me cry with your horrid little insult...
i am SO sad now.....
Think i'll get my crayons out for YOU again - SPECIALLY....
† Acts 16 : 18 †
"And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."
AMEN & HALLELUJAH...
Brittles.. She's right.
Or if you have a question I don't know everything, but have spent more time in the Bible than working jobs in my life. Email me and I'll help.. [or I'll email another Christian or two to get the answers if you want a balanced view for security, and get them to email you]
Another excellent study resource is Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary.
It's lengthy but, I assure you he covers the text and leaves no stone unturned. His commentary is accurate, and Biblical and has helped me tons when I needed a teacher.
And you can look up any section of the Bible you want and it's like having a God loving Christ Jesus serving scholar there to answer any questions you have if you are willing to read his long winded writing.
To me it's worth it.
If you don't have time, I do. Email me and I'll look and give you scripture references you can look up.
Also another excellent source is John Gills Exposition of the entire Bible 1887. I use John's just about as much as Henry's. It can be found online.
Thanks vector... Is this the right one? http://www.biblestudytools.com/commenta … -complete/
I have always had trouble reading anything! I love to listen or be able to read a small bit then examine it. I tend to read the wrong words as my brain and eyes don't agree with each other... lol
Also, is there audio somewhere I can download or buy? Its much easy for me to listen then read.. lol
Random question... Which is the best bible to learn from?
Here sister - NO DOUBT AT ALL :
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=KJV
Audio is ALSO available in that link. Avoid the "new translations" SO MANY MISTAKES - (only useful for COMPARISON Study)
Original AD 1770 Perfection Here (print press typos and older language purified OUT since AD 1611) :
http://www.constellation7.org/TheHolyBi … Index.html
Finally, this Link WILL help a LOT:
Do encourage you to get your own Indexed Copy HERE :
Amen & Amen
Here's a nice Song for YOU ii3:
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … esHoly.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE - Enjoy...
Love, Hope & Truth...
† 2 Timothy 3 : 16 †
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
That includes scripture from the Koran too, I suppose?
Does the phrase "Satanic verses" ring any bells ????
PART OF THE LARGEST IDOL ON THE PLANET
THE REAL (ONLY) GOD HATES IDOLATRY
† Mark 13 : 14 †
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"
† Daniel 11 : 45 †
"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
Yes the real one hate idolatry.
I think it is exhibitionism he love!
Actually Elijah is a very nice person, aren't you Elijah. You just want as to have a good laugh at your expense and at the expense of the illegitimate son(As they say in Greek, Zeus's bastard son).
Yes i am.
See you have taken to emulating my forum picture-post style.
Imitation is the SINCEREST form of flattery.
Sorry to burst your atheist bubble jomine, BUT Joseph and Mary WERE Married BEFORE The Holy Ghost Conceived The Only Begotten Son Of God In The Virgin Womb of The Blessed Mother.
Another common antichrist FALLACY...
Told you before, you have a REAL problem READING.
Try again :
† Matthew 1 : 18 - 20 †
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily."
† Luke 1 : 26 - 28 †
"And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
† Luke 2 : 4 - 5 †
"And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child."
Student Dictionary (just for you jomine)
One entry found for espouse.
Main Entry: es·pouse
Inflected Form(s): es·poused; es·pous·ing
1 a : 1MARRY 2 b : 1MARRY 3
2 : to take up the cause of : SUPPORT
- es·pous·er noun
ANYHOW - sure you WILL like this song :
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … elling.mp3
RIGHT CLICK THE ABOVE LINK AND OPEN IN NEW TAB OR WINDOW TO AVOID NAVIGATING AWAY FROM THIS WEB PAGE.
It is for a person like you who cannot read and understand.
So joseph and marry was married(it depends on which translation you read) and it is jospeh's son, not your god's. If it was your god's you are proving now that he was an adulterer, he impregnated the wife of another person.
So either he is joseph's son(then you are lying) or the illegitimate son of your god, understand?
Check your 'student dictionary' for the meaning of illegitimate.
Keep taking the pills...who knows, they might actually work for you one day....
Please don't encourage him! He will simply copy and paste on and on with his childish pictures and nonsense. He should be the last person you go to for anything related to the bible.
Because to take the words of one that cannot speak with his own thoughts, is giving yourself license to do the same. Just because it's in pretty colors, doesn't make it original.
So what bible would you recommend? I have a KJV on my laptop and a NKJV book bible, but I don't use it anymore after reading all of the changes that happened.
Reading any bible is a choice I leave to you, I cannot reccomend any over another. I would suggest(if only for myself), to read all of them and then move on to Tibetan and Hindu writings, moving onto others. It would definitely broaden your world view, as opposed to confining it to a certain crowd intuitive.
I stick with the KJV. If you don't understand a word or exactly what is being said, use Strong's lexicon Greek/Hebrew. Also called strongs numbers.
Any word that ends in eth or th can be broken down into the root word. Asketh is ask.
A basic rule with ye, you, thee, thou, thine, and etc. If it starts with a Y the speaker is to a group of people. If it starts with a T, the speaker is talking to a single person.
If not interested: skip since it can get confusing. If interested, the KJV uses the 2nd person pronoun, when we basically speak with only the first person and third person.
The first person is I, or the speaker referring to himself.
The second person is whom the speaker is speaking to.
The third person is him/she, or whom the speaker is talking about.
I didn't know if that would help you any in understanding and reading the KJV.
The use of the second person is the reason why the KJV has some funky spelling of some of the words.
Whether this is true or not, I heard the KJV is one of the most grammatically correct books written.
Because I am in the majority when it comes to this.....person! His childish rants should not influence anyone with half a brain. Only those with less than that will be remotely interested in his links to nonsense sites. But then, there are always those types who fall for such.
Which one do you want to be the best? If you ask an Anglican which bible to choose, it would prabably be the one of their liking and it would be the same for any denomination.
Well, I mean as far as unchanged translations go. Most people say King James Version is the best, I just want more opinions. lol I don't want to buy the wrong one.
There is no such thing, as it is near impossible to translate the original language. Until we do, we have only the mistranslations left by the Greeks and the many revisions, as it was edited and abridged many times over.
ii3 - And you're asking an antichrist atheistic this question..?
EXPECT THE OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH.
When purchasing the ACTUAL BOOK, remember that Charles Thompson and his loving wife, completed THE CHAIN REFERENCES by 1908.
This took 40 years - VERY POIGNANT.
The Chain References ARE a Work and a Move of God Himself ALSO, ON TOP, of ALL His Other Moves and Works until 1868 and Beyond to NOW - Amen..
Here sister : http://www.kirkbride.com/products.asp?cat=3
The online Chains are HERE :
Best to IGNORE the voices of devils !!!
RIGHT CLICK these links and open in new tab or window to avoid navigating away from this Forum Page - Amen
Think you WILL Love this Worship Music Below ALSO :-
Listen twice for The Depths of The Word - Watch for "The Crescendo Climax" - [tears] :-
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … -A-Cry.mp3
† 2 Peter 1 : 21 †
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
Holy Blessings in Love and Truth - Amen
Those compiling the KJV literally kicked out many biblical texts which THEY didn't like and painted Mary Magdelene as a harlot because they didn't like the idea of Jesus having a girlfriend or wife. They did so because if they allowed this to remain, it screwed up the whole "only Jesus was perfect" scenario and thus the entire New Testament. This can be seen for yourself if you can find a translation which has not been contaminated by "God's inspired" censors.
I don't see whats so wrong with Jesus marrying a woman who was once a whore. It shows his love and compassion. If a man were to marry someone who was once a whore today, no one would think anything of it. Strippers and prostitutes, even porn stars get married. Mary changed her ways and Jesus fell in love with her. Whats wrong with that?
Anyways, I'm sure there is some stuff missing from the bible but the important things are still there. It may be harder to understand with things missing, but we all get the basic message of God's word.
I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate, but I have heard that most if not all modern translations refer back to the KJV.
As I posted above, I stick to the KJV. I did read the NLT, and do not recommend it. So far I found out it takes out all references of righteousness.
No righteousness does not mean just acting right, as that translation would have you believe. It means doing what is right in God's eyes, and doing your best to please God. That could also mean going against what the world says and thinks is acceptable.
The only thing I know is Jesus was sinless. Marrying a woman was not a sin. I don't see how he had time when 90% of his time was taken up teaching, preaching, and doing his fathers work.
Edit to add: There are places in the Bible that talk about the marriage supper of the lamb. The church is the bride of Christ. Some could say that Jesus marrying while on Earth is a broken promise to the betrothed bride. That would be a sin. Then there would be those who claim all the bride of Christ scriptures is all an allegory or metaphor. Let the theologians argue that back and forth for ever.
Personally, I do not believe that Jesus married. This would be something if you are not sure about to take to God in prayer.
End of edit.
I do know he never had a child. Just watch out for anyone claiming Jesus had a son, and he/she is a direct descendant of Jesus. I would be thinking anti-christ then from the book of revelations. I wouldn't put it past someone to pull a stunt like that to try to gain power. What some people would do for money, greed, and power.
You are very right. Even though some things may be missing, the important things are still there. The basic message of God's word is still there after numerous attempts through out the centuries to destroy it completely have failed.
"Failed" I take it you mean "destroyed"?
No majik here. Sorry.
God's word was not destroyed. It still exists, and is still the best selling book today.
Yes, I changed the rhetorical question to a statement. I'm sure you would have come up with the many various reasons I already heard. Sorry, not buying them.
I'm sure you aren't here to create problems..
No whatever-your-name-is. I am here to educate you and explain why your religion causes so much ill will and so many fights.
Sorry you are having trouble understanding.
"Study thread for Christians to discuss God's Holy Living Word."
Speaking of trouble understanding. Are you here to force it down a throat or two?
Don't get too bold, your literacy is either failing or you are intentionally being rude.
You do know what "for Christians" implies don't ya Mark?
It's a precedence of agreements. Apparently that means you're off topic. And you are knowingly in disagreement with the OP.
Big scary man does whatever he wants eh?
Braver and braver. Impressive. Makes me want to become a warrior of christ myself.
Must admit - I didn't notice you had banned non-Xtians from partaking of this thread.
Do you work here now?
You obviously missed my point to agua. Hardly surprising. I will leave you to it unless you respond to me again.
Well finally!! Praise our God! You do speak sensibly! Welcome to the fold!!! Heaven rejoices. You've made a wonderful decision; and don't be surprised if you start feeling joyful, its one of the promises, and you get to keep it!!!
I didn't ban anyone, HubPages created the forum rules buddy.
Brave? I stepped in front of a gun a month ago, between it and my friend. Is there something more you can do? Got a torture bag or something?
And uh, I don't report this thread. I let everyone see the little anti-Christ run around in despair attempting to push agenda.
Sorry you think you can prevent certain people from entering a forum thread. I knew you were brave. I could tell.
Really - I am considering becoming a warrior of christ myself.
Anti-christian is probably a better name to call me. Christ has been proven to have never existed.
Ouch! I thought you were finding your way. Never existed!!! ??? You're kidding, right? You are the "bird" sent to eat up all the little seeds! Please, don't eat them all; pocket a few. You're almost done here on earth, lifespan is only a vapor in relation to after, take something with you.
Can you prove you are a christian, Vector? You could simply think you are, like most I've seen posting in favor of the cult.
Thanks Bible Studies...
I'll stick with the King James Version then.
Bible Studies wrote:
This is great! Finally someone who actually knows where Jesus was between the age of 12 until he reappeared not long before the Crucifixion. Please tell us where you found out this wonderful news!
Would it bother you if Jesus was indeed married to Mary Magdalene? If so, why?
Once again, I would like to know how you "do know he never had a child"? You seem to have the ability to state for a fact things which Biblical scholars have no proof of and can't avow to themselves. This puzzles me very much for the simple reason of you being a Christian who should not be purposely saying things you are not personally aware of. But go ahead and tell me you know Jesus had no children and how you know this for a fact and then I'll certainly apologize to you.
How do you know the "some things missing" aren't even more important than what remains in the old tome? And when was the last time someone tried to destroy all of the bibles in the world? Just the year and who it was will be fine.
Thanks ahead of time just in case something really important comes up and you can't answer right away.
Why do you have spite towards other people?
Bible Studies said that he/she (sorry, I don't know!?) has an OPINION that Jesus never married. Doesn't mean its the truth or not. Its just an opinion. To take an opinion and dramatize it with saying...
"This is great! Finally someone who actually knows where Jesus was between the age of 12 until he reappeared not long before the Crucifixion. Please tell us where you found out this wonderful news! "
is a bit childish, don't you think? I'm not trying to start anything, just saying lighten up and don't take things so personal. Its a forum!
So I should merely allow a person to state whatever they wish even if I know it is untrue? How is it spite to challenge someone who is not telling the truth? What do the words "I know' mean to you? I would think it is more spiteful to make such a bold statement without anything at all to back it up with. Are you suggesting we all simply make blatantly false statements and just expect others to let them slide? I don't believe you've thought this through, have you?
How is it "a bit childish" to wish those speaking--especially when they are telling those who disagree with them they are going to hell--would simply tell the truth and not dramatize their "opinions" with "I do know Jesus was too busy etc. to be married" when they have no such knowledge?
Let's wait and see what Bible Studies says. Surely he/she will answer if honesty is important to him/her.
Randy, Who says I can't back up my statement?
Yes I did state that being married would not be a sin. Then later I added an edit. Basically stating Jesus is betrothed to his bride. For Jesus to marry, that would be breaking his betrothal, which would be a sin. That is why I don't believe he married at all.
I also believe what the Bible says. Jesus remained sinless. To remain sinless he couldn't marry or break the betrothal. He couldn't have a child out side of marriage.
Therefore he never had a child.
Matthew 9:15 "And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."
Revelation 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready."
Ah yes, Jr. never sinned throughout his entire life. He was a god and not a human being. I forget that part of the myth sometimes. This sure does complicate things though. I know you believe he had miraculous powers so he could probably do all sorts of magical tricks, such as heal the sick, cure the blind., etc., basically all of the same stuff the other gods could do. I'll bet he could even make his own body have no feeling at all just in case he was crucified or something, right?
That's something I never understood. The whole "god sacrificed his son for your sins thing" I mean. Exactly how is it a sacrifice when god can simply bring his son right back to life? What am I missing here? What did god give up he could not simply get right back?
Who was Jesus betrothed to? And we know how much his dad respected betrothal, don't we? Ask old Joseph how much respect junior's dad had for 13 year old betrothed virgins. You remember him don't you, cuckolded step-dad of Jesus?
Matthew is really not a very good source of information considering all of the historical inaccuracies contained in the book attributed to him. Since you use the name "Bible Studies" I'm sure you are well aware the book was written by an unknown author, or possibly many authors, and was simply a collection of tales which was not compiled into a book, or attributed to Matthew, for almost 200 years after the life of Jesus.
Much contained in this "Gospel According to" is just plain wrong historically. But once again, you already know this if you indeed study the Bible. Revelations has its own problems too. It was supposedly written by John.
Which John is never indicated and this is never made clear. Choose from several if you wish. Like Matthew, it is thought to have been written in the 2nd century and was not accepted as a viable entry into the group of books which would eventually make up the NT until almost 500 years after the Crucifixion.
Parts of it are so different some biblical scholars believe it was composed by several different authors. How can one put so much stock in such questionable writings made so long after the fact, and not written by someone actually witnessing the events, is beyond me! It all amounts to hearsay and this is what you give me as an answer?
See, your faith is working;) it aint about God, but uv got a lot of faith that he's a hoax. Have it your way... Have you looked into the authenticity of your cited works? Nevermind, i know you have SOLID proof.
Only from biblical scholars, Genaea. Let me guess, god himself is your source, right?
Do me a favor Genaea, point out the scripture describing the holy trinity so important to a Baptist such as yourself. I'd like a verse of scripture containing the phrase: "The Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost". You may substitute "spirit" for "ghost" if you so choose. I know how some Primitive Baptist cults do things slightly different.
Thanks ahead of time! I'll speak with you again when you provide these verses for my examination.
For what? The bible does talk about all three. "i will leave a comforter..." look it up. Dont u want the inside of u to calm?
KJV Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
This is also for others who would like to know.
Not Matthew again? The same guy who saw things no one else else did? The same guy who saw corpses walking around and recorded 4 hours of darkness and earthquakes not even the learned men of the day noticed? The one who got the date of the birth of Jesus wrong as well as the events surrounding it.
I discussed him a bit in a hub concerning the Star of Bethlehem. He saw things no one else did and had a problem with including events in his accounts which happened decades later. For a god inspired writer he sure didn't worry too much about facts. Just the kinda guy you like! :lol;
It's funny though that you have more actual data than Matthew. Who's your leader?
The Roman records of the day along with the notes of famous historians of the day are my leaders. Matthew said Joseph had to return to Bethlehem to pay taxes when Jesus was born. There was no tax levied on Joseph, only on Roman citizens and besides this, there was not tax levied for years before or after the time stated by Matthew.
Matthew also added the three kings and Magi into HIS version of the tale although this happened many decades later at the time the book was actually made up. Haley's comet was in the sky and he had the revelation to add in the star of Bethlehem.
The books of the New Testament were the Greek equivalent of the "Paperback of the Month Club" during their day. This is why so many of the books were simply chucked out of the entire collection by those doing the KJV.
So now you know. Get real!
Well you have a lot of facts. Are you positive that they are correct? Or are you just excited that they speak against your enemy?
The records of noted and famous historians back each other up, Genaea. You are preaching the false memories of an unknown person who mixed up times, dates, and events to try and add a bit of credibility to his creative writing. But check it out yourself.
Compare his slant on the events to others in the same old tome. You can't just ignore Matthew's version of the events and label them "insignificant" like BS can you? If so, then you deserve all of the derision you'll surely receive!
But then, you aren't interested in the truth. This normally essential desire has been erased from your psyche a long time ago.
No matter what I say, you are going to call BS just for the love of argument.
All I can say is that you are wrong about the Star of Bethlehem being Hailey's comet. It was a huge astronomical sign they knew to look for. You would have to watch the star of Bethlehem documentary.
The wise men were not just three men. They were many being escorted by a large number of servants and warriors. This only makes sense, because otherwise they would have been robbed before they even made it to Herod's. Hardly anyone would have taken notice if it were just three. They had the attention of the entire place.
What else are you wrong about?
Obviously you haven't read the hub I referenced. I did not say Haley's comet was the Star of Bethlehem, only the anonymous author of the writings attributed to Matthew observed Haley's comet, as well as, a group of people composed of a king and members of his entourage--including Magi, or astrologers if you will--during the time the book was written. There was so much excitement at this time he included similar events when he wrote the book, even though it was many decades after the birth of Jesus had supposedly taken place.
There was no comet or other out of the ordinary bright light in the sky at the time of the supposed birth, otherwise the scientists and the historians of the day, as well as, the other writers of the biblical books, would have definitely mentioned it in their writings.
The best guess is an astrological formation of stars and planets were interpreted by the Zoroastrians--or magi if you prefer--indicating some forthcoming event related to the birth of a king. It had happened many times before and this was nothing really out of the ordinary for anyone not well acquainted with the night skies to even notice as being anything special.
Sorry you misunderstood my post.
That is because you are looking for a comet, a single bright star, a nova, or something like that. The star of Bethlehem was in the alignment of the stars and planets.
NO this is not astrology where you predict what is going to happen to you that day. Hogwash.
This is astronomy and looking for signs in the heavens that God placed there since the creation of time. I always believed the heavens told God's story. This particular event could only happen at that time, and the alignments will never happen again. The magi were from descendants of the lost tribe of Judah I believe it was. Who else would be looking for signs in the stars?
I can't explain all of it. Watch the Star of Bethlehem on YouTube over an hour long though. Get some popcorn.
No. I'm looking for nothing of the sort, BS. Although there was a conjunction of several planets and at least one star around the time of the supposed birth of Jesus, a conjunction of planets and/or stars does not remain in the sky in these positions very long at all. Certainly not long enough to follow for days, or even weeks as a guide.
Every night these celestial bodies traveled from east to west across the night skies. But then, so does the sun, the moon, and all other celestial bodies seem to do so, as the earth is merely turning on its axis. There is no known heavenly body which is known to stay in the night sky in one spot, other than man made satellites placed in a geocentric orbit around our planet.
You certainly didn't learn much from your documentery, BS. In the first place, the time of year we celebrate the birth of Jesus is simply the same time of year the ancient druids and other priests celebrated the winter solstice. Coincidence? I don't think so. Your boy Matthew--once again:lol:--reported the shepherds in the fields by night. This had to be at least during the summer if not early spring.
Scholars cannot even agree on the year Jesus was supposed to have been born, much less what planets or stars were in conjunction. You have to know the exact time to figure where all of the planets and stars would be. Now if you have proof of the day Jesus was born, there are plenty of folks who would like to speak with you. Otherwise, it's iffy at best.
The Magi were known to be astrologers, BS. This could help your argument with the conjunction you claim. Like reading horoscopes, the Zoroastrians could read whatever they chose from the stars and planets, and just like today, fools put stock them. Many ancient kings depended on them to read the signs in the sky, to foretell the outcome of battles or to predict the future. Pure, BS,BS!
Yes, some conjunctions do not repeat themselves for thousands of years. But there is nothing to show this happened at the birth of the fabled Messiah.
One it is not BS. Two, I like to see you watch it, and then disprove it. Three, the documentary proved that the celestial event stayed in the sky much longer than regular events. The wise men had to travel a very long distance as a slow pace. If I remember correctly, it did not put the event at winter solstice. I never said the magi were astrologers, all I said was they knew Jewish prophecies and knew what to look for, since they were descended from Jews. This was more than a conjunction, and a once in a life time event.
It has been over a year since I seen the documentary. It proved a lot of things. I'm sorry you want to be so argumentative. You more than likely won't watch it. All you are doing is doing your best to call BS to put doubt in other people who may read this. All I can say is watch it yourself, then judge. I don't even want to try to explain what is in the documentary. It is too technical for me to try to explain in simpler terms, and there is way too much information, and the life time of work the person put into a computer program to accurately recreate the heavens from the beginning to now, and I believe into the future. It even explains some things from the book of Revelations. For those interested, I'll let him explain everything.
I cannot find the link for your amazing video, BS. Post it again or show me which thread it is on. I must warn you though, I alwyas check out the author to see if he has a religious agenda before I spend much time on watching anything religious in nature. You know, where he went to school for his degrees, his reputation in the scientific community, mainly his credentials.
I've researched this subject myself for articles--only one here--concerning the event and how accurate the date of birth of Jesus really is. His birth date seems to be off a few years according to everything I've read and studied. Time keeping vy religious cults was not very accurate as we have discovered comparing them to Roman records of the day.
I will take a look at your link and give you my opinion if you so desire. Just remember, you asked for it!
Randy here is the link.
I'll let the author speak for himself.
Edit to add: I'm re-watching this myself. He didn't create the software, but it is extremely accurate, he explains why. He is a lawyer that wanted to get down to the nitty gritty of what the star was scientifically speaking. As he says himself it took him years of work to find out. He had to learn about the skies, overcome the difference between astronomy and astrology, and go back to ancient texts. Yes, he was/is dedicated.
I should have mentioned this earlier. The documentary is called "Real Star of Bethlehem" not the star of Bethlehem. Sorry for getting anyone confused.
Randy, think Saul. Ur gonna b a great witness!!!
Just point out chapter and verse for me if you can't quote the scripture, Although, you seem to do so when it pleases you.
The term "trinity" is a concept that the "church" came up with, based upon several scriptures that direct to the third entity. I will not do your bible studying for you, that's cheating. But i promise, if you ask God for the knowledge of him, he will give you the desires of your heart. No joke. It is written.
I didn't realize I was challenged. So yes, I suppose I must have won.
No...it took s loooong time for you to convince me that you were convinced of your position. You should be proud. You have saddened the Lord though.
Poor Lord! He should not have made me so logical. If he had simply made me as gullible and illogical as you and others are, I would have already succumbed to his ridiculous cult when I was a child. His bad!
Yes, I do know. Yet, God's message was never destroyed even after all of this. God loves you that he sent his only son so that you would be saved. Jesus took the place of all the sacrifices that were done to cover our sins. That when he died he didn't just cover our sin, but took them away and washed them in his blood.
Could have this been stopped? Even the person on the cross next to him asked why are you still up here? If you are the son of God, why not just get yourself down? Yes Jesus could have left the cross in a heart beat, by God, himself, and even the angels. But they knew what Jesus was doing was too important to stop. Even in the garden of Gesemity he asked God if there was another way, but there wasn't. Jesus had to be the final sacrifice.
Then Jesus died. The skies rolled black, and the veil tore. He was torn apart from himself. The worst moment in his life. I believe to him that was worse than anything he suffered on the cross. I imagine it would have been worse than someone knowing they are loosing their memories. Worse than CYS tearing children from their parents. Worse than a mother loosing their child to who knows what fate if the child ever disappears.
Jesus rose on the third day. All this was done so we may be able to be with God in paradise when we die. This isn't something we have to struggle for, since it is a free gift. A gift that came through much love, sweat, tears, and torment. A gift that we do not have to be separated from God's light and love. A free gift we do not have to earn.
No other god or deity has ever done this for us. No other god or deity loves us. No other god or deity is so generous that they will give us the gift of salvation. Salvation for every other belief system out there is earned. If you mess up and fail, oh well.
Jesus is the way, truth, and life. Everyone who believes in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life.
PS. Jesus still loves you even though you think he is a hoax.
Is there no end to this BS? Mr. God in his 'infinite wisdom' born himself as an illegitimate child and mingled with the scum of the society and went through the sham of death that a bunch of morons and sqounderals who spam forums with their nonsense be saved?
And i thank him for it. You probably will too one day. The fact that ur still here speaks volumes! I am positive of what i believe...are you?
I'm positive that you believe bullshit. Just because you are afraid to think and trust your parents and priests blindly and can form no opinion on your own and have to look to a book written by idiots and scums, does not means others are brain dead to swallow nonsense.
You can chose to be as idiotic as possible but then stay away from forums and the public, you can get enough morons in your church.
You are right, who in their right mind would mingle with the scum of society, go through the shame of death, and be associated with a bunch of morons and squanders? Only, someone who loves unconditionally.
Yet, it is extremely hard to comprehend unconditional love, and practically impossible to do. Yet, God does, God loves, and God loves you.
PS. jomine, why did you come to this thread and respond when you knew this was a Chrhistian thread? Are you searching for something?
;( I have been nothing but respectful to you. Are you afraid of what I say? Don't be. Just choose. signing out would be a way of escape. I don't need an escape, do you?
Afraid of what, Nonsense? I'm irritated and tired of it, the moment one goes out another comes just to quote the nonsense book again.
Yep! The "Please, think like me or you're doomed to hell" believers come and go here like Yo Yos. Come to think of it, Yo Yos is perhaps an apt description for the religious trolls which join here with the intention of recruiting more souls for their ridiculous Dark Ages cults.
Almost every one of them has been brainwashed to within an inc of their sanity, with some already two inches past. I wish HP would do away with these religious forums. I'm tired of trying to slow the spread of ignorance spewed by these obviously confused people. Whether they are christian, muslim. mormon--and no, I don't lump them in with christians, but they do deserve each other--or jews. they are living in yesterday's superstitious world.
But back to the Yo Yo comparison. Most come here and post a hub or two, burst into the forums like a bull in a china shop, and proceed to let everyone know THEY know what is right and wrong for the rest of the world to do. Usually after a few of their idiotic god dunnit responses they start getting indignant because others dare to ask them questions they cannot answer, other than the previously mentioned "god dunnit" response.
If they were restricted to using only known facts and common sense in their responses, they would not be a thumper on the forums. Here we are using facts and historical documents painstakingly recorded by men of known abilities and accomplishments against the rambling mythical musings of hearsay accounts, many of them written hundreds of years after the supposed events occurred.
Thankfully for many of us though, the string eventually winds the Yo Yo back in and breaks. And then here comes another Yo Yo......!
Another non-answer among more delusion. Again, what is a sacrifice if you can simply get something right back?
And there was no dark skies or earthquakes, nor did corpses crawl out of their graves when Jesus was supposedly crucified. None of the well known contemporary historians of the time and area ever mentioned such miraculous events, and you can be assured they would've meticulously documented such out of the ordinary happenings.
Only one of the gospels reported such crazy things ever ocuring either. I wonder why the other guys writing their own accounts of the death of Jr. would leave these very important events out of their take on it? Feel free to enlighten me on this if you know why this is so? I mean an actual motive they might have had, not simply "God has his reasons, so I don't need to explain anything....."!
God lost a part of himself. Yes, Jesus went back to him. He will never fully regain what he had before. He will always remember the ripping apart. A change has been made that will never be unchanged.
You said it yourself one of the Gospels did report the event. I'm sure you already know why, but you like making a point out of it. You can take one event and five people, and each person will remember the event differently. It will have different details, but yet all the details each person reported were correct. Some will not report the detail, since they believe it is too insignificant to report in the first place. One person was extremely impressionable that it got dark, while the others hardly took notice.
In 911 the plane was one of the big events, but yet there are people who went through it and claim to never have seen a plane. That doesn't mean there wasn't one.
Which part did god lose? According to you guys, god can do anything he pleases, as well as, being indestructible, all knowing, all seeing, all everything. Now you are saying he has a weakness sorta like Superman is harmed by kryptonite? He cannot change the unchanged now either? The old guy's losing his touch or what?
I think you may need to go back and reread the scripture a bit, Bible Studies! You refer to corpses arising from their graves, walking around in the streets in darkness which lasted for four hours. There was also an earthquake on top of everything else.
And only person in all of those who recorded important scientific and historical events of the time mentioned these "insignificant events"! You can make yourself believe anything, apparently. I now understand why you were so easily indoctrinated. Are you a baptist too?
RG, You are determined to believe in a little bit of everything and a lot of nothing. And now I see you wish only to argue. How many ways can I say that God is good? How many ways can you say nope?
I can say nope as many times as you say yep, Genaea. But I'll just say this and then you can mislead people to your heart's content. If Bible Studies and yourself had lived during the time of the Salem Witch Trials, you two would have been the type of jurors Cotton Mather would have chosen.
He would have quoted scripture which condemned the people accused of witchcraft. Your admiration for this twisted man along with the quoted "inspired word of God" would strengthen your faith in his words. When asked to render a verdict, you guys would shout "Guilty" then precede to kill them with a sense of self righteousness, never losing a wink of sleep over your decision.
This is my opinion of you. You are able to interpret any scripture to back up your opinion, not matter what words are used. Baptist you are, and Baptist you shall stay. Preach on, sister!
Randy, I'm not a Baptist. As far as the Salem Witch trials go you are wrong. Mather would probably would have had me tried as a witch for being a trouble maker for speaking out against him. You would have been shouting guilty if you knew the person was a Christian instead of a witch.
Somewhat like all the judgment of those who don't agree with his position. ...and the name-calling borders on juvenile.
So you would have come to your senses and ignored the scripture Mather used to sway those into convicting the witches? You are still using the same scriptures to back up your own arguments Cotton used. And no, you would have been the one to cast the first stone.
You've shown this clearly by your judgement of others who do not care to think as you do. You insult others when you say they are wrong and will suffer the consequences when they die, because YOU have the right idea about the bible. It's as simple as that.
Not a baptist? Which cult do you belong to then?
Randy, alright already! Pick a side. I have seen no judgment from those claiming to be on the side of God. The only judgment I do see is from those like you who call names to prove a point that they.are not sure of. Go back and read your own posts. Then tell me where the judgment lies. I never heard one time about what wide happen to u after death. You came up with that. Are you concerned?
Why I can't respond to the post I want to respond to is getting extremely irritating.
Genaea - I guess I was trying to use his own reasoning against him after he said I would shout guilty from the bench. I guess it didn't work too well.
I know in the Bible Jesus said the world says an eye for an eye, but resist not evil. Matt 5:38.
Randy, not it is not ignoring scripture as far as the witch trials go. Jesus said I shall have mercy and not sacrifice. I believe no witch was ever executed at the trials. God wants everyone saved. That includes everyone who has ever done anything wrong in their life no matter how bad or evil it what it was.
You accuse me of insulting others, when you have done most of the insulting yourself. I'm toning it way down right now. Sorry for the comment about the witch trials directed at you.
I'm non-denominational, Bible believing Christian.
Sure you do! You're almost as bad to make statements you cannot back up, just like bible Studies, Perhaps it's simply a Baptist thing to do so. I know it is down here in southern Georgia. But some of them handle venomous snakes while doing so! (no, they aren't handling me. I'm non-venomous)
I backed my statement above. Sorry, give a person time to reply. If it was over a day, then I could see the complaint. I do have a life outside of the forums also.
Elijah7, This is when push comes to shove. No matter what feelings you have about Randy, this is the time to pray for him. An earnest prayer that his soul will be saved. Push every thing else aside and pray.
I asked my god Moe to help you guys get over being brainwashed as children too! He informed me it was too late for you guys. Your free will has been erased, he said, along with the ability to understand science and logic. Sorry, My god Moe doesn't forgive willful ignorance. Y'all better stick with your guy, a god who requires it. Sorry.....I tried!
Personally, I'm not going to reply to our resident "false prophet" and his childish ramblings anymore. I suggest everyone take this tack or he will simply continue with his inane copy-and-paste biblical plagiarism.
copied and pasted from wickipedia
1525-1526 the Tyndale New Testament became the first printed edition of the scripture in the English language. Subsequent printings of the Tyndale New Testament in the 1530's were often elaborately illustrated.
They were burned as soon as the Bishop could confiscate them, but copies trickled through and actually ended up in the bedroom of King Henry VIII. The more the King and Bishop resisted its distribution, the more fascinated the public at large became. The church declared it contained thousands of errors as they torched hundreds of New Testaments confiscated by the clergy, while in fact, they burned them because they could find no errors at all. One risked death by burning if caught in mere possession of Tyndale's forbidden books.
Years later; the church scanctioned the printing of their translation of the bible.
I'd like to find one of these Tyndale New Testaments
I have read from a number of sources that the KJV was the least popular version of the bible until the late 1800s
Not really making any comment, just throwing something out there as food for thought.
Very interesting, Jerami. So it was the church itself trying to burn the bibles, not unbelievers? Sounds about right. The different religious cults are each others worst enemies, not the atheists and agnostics. :lol;
What I been trying to say for a couple of years.
I don't remember any wars against Atheists.
Constantines Church was hard on religious people that had a different faith.
CATHOLICISM VS ALL THE OTHERS - THEN - BUT NOT SO MUCH NOW.
THE REAL CHURCH IS NOT AGAINST ATHEIST AND AGNOSTICS.
THE REAL CHURCH IS TRYING TO SAVE YOU ALL.
JESUS "THOUGH HIS REAL CHURCH" IS TRY TO SAVE YOU ALL.
AMEN AND AMEN † † †
Jesus Christ's name is Iesus Christ in that bible.
J's were not used.
Very interesting. I read that before the KJV the people's bible was the 1599 Geneva Bible with a lot of commentary right in the bible itself. One reason the KJV was created is because the king wanted to get rid of the commentary.
The Geneva Bible can be found online. I read some, and the commentary is good. I have heard that it is close to the KJV. It may be because the writers of the KJV referenced that Bible. Just as the modern translations used the KJV to help them create the new Bibles.
I think every Christian should Google, Wycliffe's Bible, Tyndale, Martin Luther and John Baker and many others from the 16th century before we make up our minds as to the fact that King James’ version of the bible “is the Truth, the WHOLE Truth and Nothing but the truth".
I started to go on and on about the war like situation which was going on while these people who determine which versions of translation should be published. As we all know; the church eventually won.
I will add just one copy and paste
"One must understand the situation in England at this time. Henry VIII, husband of many wives, was on the throne. Dedicated Roman Catholic, but bitter enemy of the pope's rule in England, Henry persecuted Protestants on the one hand, but separated the church of England from papal control on the other hand. The church itself was rife with evil, wickedness in high places, and fornication of every sort".
Anyone found posessing some of these translations were executed.
I don’t remember now which one it was that was executed then dug up years later to be burned at the stake in public display to be made an example of.
I don't think that would have been necessary over a few Typographical errors.
The winners of war get to decide how the facts are remembered. And 500 years later they are hardly remembered at all.
The more I study about these things, The more faith I have in scripture and Prophesy.
I don't know why I want to share these beliefs Cause nobody wants to hear them.
Unless it is because I might have lost my fainh in God had I not found this concept for understanding the bible.
Cause the bible does say that these things will happen. And "Will happen" never stays in the immediate "FUTURE" ... for ever!
We don’t know how to read scripture and Prophesy outside the guidelines of religious establishments dictates.
Call me a blasphemer for saying so, but I believe that Rev. 13 has been in a stage of fulfillment for the past 1644 years.
And I believe that there were "too many" clues to this fact written in these other translations.
Would this mean that believers of this religious establishment are going to hell? ... Absolutely NOT! on the other hand; I don't think Atheist are either.
Why would they (?) for following Gods Plan and allowing prophesy to be fulfilled?
Most Christians are calling me an AntiChrist right now.
I assure you I, believe in the God of Abraham and every word written in RED.
I believe every word which is written, that Jesus said.
This is where Religion and I separated ways.
Because Jesus said that he would return in the 1st century, I believe he did.
Religion don't want to teach that, so his word is interpreted to mean something else.
He said it, I believe it.
Where does it say "when" he will return. I never read an exact time... It says no one in heaven or on earth or in hell will know when Jesus' return will be.
This generation shall not pass till All these things be fulfilled but no one knows what day.
As if I were to say "I'll do it tomorrow but I can't tell Ya what time tomorrow.
And "some of you standing here shall not taste of death till they have seen the son of Man coming in the clouds sitting at the right hand of Power.
And The book of Daniel explicitly points to a time that many will be redeamed from among man (Rapture) Which turned out to be 138 AD
Not exactly Jerami...
The Abomination that Maketh DESOLATE, must FIRST be Identified.
† Daniel 11 : 31 †
"And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."
NB : Daniel Chapter Eleven is a GIGANTIC PROPHECY of ISLAM itself.
Mosques (other abominations) are Prophesied in the very last Holy Verse.
PLUS : The Gospel MUST be Preached to EVERY NATION, EVERY PERSON.
This naturally takes TIME.
To assist with DEEPER UNDERSTANDING, please note :
The Abomination that Maketh Desolate took SEVEN YEARS to
build from AD 685 to AD 692.
A picture of "IT" is below.
Now go to Daniel 12 and NOTE the 1290 days ARE in fact YEARS.
† Daniel 12 : 11 - 12 †
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
Add another 45 years (re : the 1335 "days") and we arrive during the era that THE REAL NOAH'S Ark has been excated AD1960 - AD 1994.
Think you SHOULD be able to work everything else out from this.
The global EVIL of Terror-Islam is NOW in full swing.
Dinosaurs are HUGELY popular globally...
People are progressively living longer and longer.
BUT, above ALL else, Global Evangelism IS MASSIVE, with
Mighty Miracles being reported EVERY DAY from ALL corners
of the earth RIGHT NOW - Alleluia.
These Testimonies ARE Vast and Non-Stop...
"A HOLY CRESCENDO"...
Finally, Missionaries are learning the languages of the last unreached tribal groups globally, BESTOWING them with The Fundamental Gospel
Of The Lord JESUS Christ - AMEN
This is ALL EXPONENTIALLY ACCELERATING as we sit here.
In Closing therefore :
† Mark 13 : 14 †
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"
† Matthew 24 : 37 †
"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
† Matthew 24 : 34 †
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
"THIS GENERATION" Must be ABLE TO WITNESS EVERYTHING ELSE IN MATTHEW 24 AND ELSEWHERE IN PROPHECY.
This DID NOT HAPPEN in AD 138 - PERIOD.
Naturally, there is LOT MORE to Reveal.....
Glory To God In The Lord JESUS Christ ONLY - Maranatha....
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
The Wizard of Oz
copy and paste from "Wicki"
(king)James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England
edit it is 1:00 Am and bed time
Be back in about 5 hours for AM coffee
OK here is what I’m thinking. How I understand it.
Chapter 10 … Gabriel is saying, “I am going to give you understanding”, which doesn’t begin until chapter 11. I can’t imagine why the church would make two chapters from one? Yes I can, but that is another story.
In Chapter 2 ,7,8 these dreams or visions are divinely interpreted as being four kingdoms in succession having dominion over Israel and Judea.
Chapter 11 is no different, though it picks up during the time of the second kingdom and describes events bringing about the transference of power to the third kingdom which was Grecia and then to the fourth kingdom which everyone knows was the Roman Empire.
The fourth kingdom was seen in an earlier vision as having 10 horns and then a little horn rises up replacing three horns. Gabriel interprets this as representing ten kings and then a king rises to power replacing three kings after the ten. There will be 14 kings having power over that Hebrew Nation.
Back to C.11 When this king (the little horn) comes to his end (11:45)… (12:1 & 2) AT That Time thy people shall be delivered ,and many of them that sleep in the dust.
AT That time, when the 14th Emperor dies (138 AD) the entire population of Hebrew Peoples were being deported and scattered across the rest of the Roman Empire.
(11:7) And when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the Holy people all these things shall be finished
Daniel heard but didn't understand so the angels replied.
V. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination of desolation that maketh desolate set up there shall be 1290 days.
These verses are two which I was talking about in an earlier post that the translators were instructed to translate in such a way as to agree with the church of England theology
It was translated making it difficult to understand. And without proper understanding of the 62 weeks as described in C 9 these were obscured quite nicely.
It seems to me that this just said that a time, times and a half is the same as 1290 days. And scattering the power of the Holy people is the same as taking away the daily sacrifice.
And in chapter nine using this same kind of simple deduction, it says that 62 weeks is the same as 568 years. Or that a week in prophesy is approx 9.13 to 9.16 years.
That was too much for one post SOoo I;m done
It just seems to me that every issue discussed in these forums are in one way or another connected to the issue I brought up a few posts back.
Everyone dances (debates) right up to the campfire and backs off as soon as they come close to the central issue.
About 99% of the amunition that Athiest are using are streight out of church interpretations/translations and doctrine and not so much about the existance of what has come to be known as God.
And for the fundalimentalist ... We base our understanding from where the comma is placed or was one word used or a similar word. This depends upon which bible we are reading.
One thing I believe for sure, is that the path is very broad (and packed) while the gate is narrow.
I picture this as a narrow path upon or contained within the parameters of the broad path with atheist on one side and the fundamentalist on the otherside; and the gate represents the truth.
And this narrow path is not to either extreem, the right or the left, but streight up the middle. Just like when I'm driving my car down a dark deserted road. I'm going streight down the middle between the ditches on either side.
And the greater number of people that agrees with me; the more likely I'm not still on the narrow path.
Why don't you just point at each other and say "YOU Are Wrong!"??
and agree with each other CAUSE That Would Be the right thinjg to do?
I am through talking with her. She is now on Randy's Wall of Shuns.
Ya shoulda wispered that so as not to hurt abyones feelings.
IF everybody knew what was going on ???
And what was going on WAS .... That everybody pointed at whoever they thought was stupid .... remember!! everybody is doing it. SOooo it's OK and politically correct!
come back tomorrow and tell me how many fingers you were looking down.
And I'll let you know if I can be honest with you and tell the truth?
You first. LOL ?
Right now my middle finger is very prominent when looking at certain believers, Jerami. Not you, you have the ability to use facts and reasoning in your posts and looking at scripture too.
Some, however, are so lost in their own religiously indoctrinated lives they aren't worth wasting time on by conversing with them. I enjoy discussing folk's beliefs and why they look at things the way they do. But some are not worth listening to as delusion has taken over their lives. Let them converse with those of their own like minded willful ignorance.
Randy, faith tells you what's delusional. Personally, no man can tell me God is not real and the Bible that I read is not his word. You have your faiths and if you want to stick to that, it's ok with me. Therefore, there should be no upset. We both have free will. Prove it to yourself. Scratch your nose...see, no one stopped you. But, if you scratch too hard, there may be consequences. And only you will feel the blood. If I'm lying, no consequences ...right?
Randy, better be careful what Ya wish for?
I said all it would take is for all of the Christian cults to get together, and once and for all, decide what the bible really means in its scripture and books.
== -- ===
If everyone agreed about what the bible really means, it might fix one problen, and a worse problem could fill the void.
Especialy if their answer was totaly true.
Knowing some things could takeaway from the purpose of this whole thing.
Who said I wished for it to be true, Jerami? For now, it's very interesting to watch how far some people will go to swallow unbelievable dogma. Not funny of course, but rather sad from the standpoint of someone who realizes we cannot please every god man creates. And he has created these gods as long as there have been things which mystified man.
Science and knowledge satisfies my longing for the unknowns of the world, and understanding human nature tells me why there is, and always has been, greed and its accompanying fellows--sins, you may call them--to let us recognize goodness when we see it also.
But perhaps you are right, Jerami. There is always something to bi*ch about in the world. Otherwise, it would be as dull as the believers make heaven sound to some of us.
Well..., look what I found.
"The following Bible quotes are from the Evil Bible Quotes of the Day which were posted to several newsgroups on the web."
And since they are on the newsgroups, I'm guessing public domain; so help yourselves.
And by all means, check out the menu options at left. This site has years worth of ammo for those who want it.
Considering the OP I suppose your intent was blatent disrespect.
Maybe you should start a fan club and post your own thread?
I'm a little sick of arrogance, or illiteracy, whichever the case may be..
I think the anti-Christianity posters may be narcissistic. They love to become infamous for crashing Bible Study/discussion/Praise parties because they can't stand to see Believers freely discussing or partying for the Lord!
What is that "thing" you have that's making you smile while i am all upset and uncertain, you ol' Christian you!!!
Wow. I am both happy and certain. Guess that ruins your smug self righteousness. Another divorced woman preacher going against the word of god, I see. How about that. We get a lot of unhappy divorced women preaching nonsense to fill the emptiness of their lives.
Pity it causes so many fights. Still - you don't care about that - do you?
Now i know I'm right! Insults and mud-slinging? You should not make your jealousy be so obvious you can't hurt me... I know who holds my future...do you? I won't tell your business on air, but when you lay down, think of me. I will be there when you are ready to study God. I will help you. No? I can handle that... Have a beautifully blessed sleep.
No insults. Just observations. Sorry you have obviously not read your majik book either. Divorce? Women preaching?
I will not be thinking of you - sorry. Smug, self righteous women preachers just cause ill will and bad feelings.
This is why god's majik book tells you not to do it. Perhaps you should listen to what you claim to know so well?
"Bless," you too.
CORRECTION: there's a list of things, not people, that God hates. The fact that now you start slinging personal insults shows that you have run out of juice, Mark. I aint mad...you have been backed into a corner and now you're doing the "natural" thing. Go ahead...claw!!! blessings, again.
So - disagreeing with you and pointing out why your self righteousness causes so much ill will and conflict is "clawing."?
OK then - guess you are not interested in learning anything - you just want to try and "back me into a corner," in order to cause me to fight with you.
Like wot Jesus told you to do?
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
Yes - "Blessings" to you also.
how much conflict has my religion been causing.
Don't be skeard come on with it ... hurt my feelings.
betcha a nickle you can't
Conflict is your "baby" on this one. You have been so all over the place with your arguments that i see that you are unsure of anything...saving for the strict assertion that im wrong. Why are you angry? Don't i have a right to ensure that you know my position as well without all the slime? I can stomach it, but can you? I'm not throwing you under the bus... But, you are laying in the street. More?
I made no such assertions. Please stop lying about me - you know god hates liars. I just pointed out why your religion causes so many conflicts and that you were acting smug and self righteous. That is all.
If you call quotng a ton of scripture AND being sure that that word is always what i'll stand on smug and self righteous, then you haven't been listening, just as I suspected. My Father in heaven is why i sing...not me. Goin ta bed, finally. Chat with you later. Good Mornin6, Sir!
Mark, God uses the broken to do his work. He uses the illogical to confound the wise.
Conflict comes from both sides not willing to back down. There are those who go looking for it, and those who enter into help a brother or sister stand for what they know.
Jesus said he came to create conflict. There would be conflict within families. I have seen it many times were one comes to Christ in a family, but the others haven't. Conflict ensues. It can even ensue more so outside of the family.
Everything really boils down to faith. Finding Answers in the Heart. Genaea and I have faith that Jesus is the Son of God. You have faith that Jesus is a myth. Therefore we are bound to have conflict. There is really no getting around it as long as we keep discussing religion, which this thread was created for Bible Study.
Even with all the conflict, I know Jesus loves you. I don't know why you are so bitter against Jesus. Be careful of where you tread. Eventually Jesus will show himself to you in a very personal way. You won't be able to logically explain it to others. It will be a cross road in your life. Choose carefully, and God Bless. Jesus hasn't given up on you.
I agree in faith B.S. God will turn it into good, everytime for his own. Thank you. I agree with you in Sprit. I applaud your knowledge and faith. There has been so much progrss for the kingdom within these exchanges. The word is a powerful sword. Fight on! I will fight with you. God's people csn not give up. Souls are being lost to uncertainty.
See how that just adds to the conflict. And see how it is 100% you making the assertions? Not to mention being massively condescending.
Thus - you are causing the conflict. You.
Please stop lying about me and passing false judgements - it just causes conflict. I know that is what you think Jesus wants, but Jesus did not exist. This is proven fact.
Thank you for not attacking me again.
Oooooohhh! Your evil has caused a slight paranoia. No one is condescending. Only you! You have insulted my past, my God, my ideas, and my faith. Don't you remember? Yes, that kind of activity backfires. Now you feel like fingers are being pointed? Stop pointing...
I was not speaking to you.
I have not insulted you in any way shape or form. I am simply being honest. Your ideas? I don't think you have any - do you? You simply go against the word of god and preach hatred and division.
So - please stop lying about me. God hates a liar. Remember?
Read your past posts to me...lying about your hatred and utter disrespect? Now, I see delusion. God does hate lying. Remember that. He loves you and im sureyou heard me say that.
Disrespect? Sorry - I thought you said "insulted," - my mistake. Where I come from - you earn respect. You have not done so. I - like god - hate liars.
This is why your religion causes so much ill will and fighting.
You don't believe insults are disrespectful? Where I come from, respect is a requirement. To me, everyone deserves my respect because of their place in my Father's heart. He does not like it when we are prideful and vengeful. But you don't know, because you'd rather not.
Mark You know very , very little about what MY religion is,
cause you don't really take the time to look.
If a "GOD" of any sort is involved widit... you can't take the time to look.
It's called Hope and Love and the recognition that Jesus is a Promise-Keeper!
I see you have it too!
it is obvious to me that the intent is more along the lines of search for "something missing. " we got it!!! don't you see...? Disrespect is expected. People get angry when they are wrestling with uncertainty.
Paradigmsearch feels guilty about his 2 previous posts...
Randy said ... Who said I wished for it to be true, Jerami?
= - =
I knew that would get a rise. LOL
For now, it's very interesting to watch how far some people will go to swallow unbelievable dogma. Not funny of course, but rather sad from the standpoint of someone who realizes we cannot please every god man creates. And he has created these gods as long as there have been things which mystified man.
- = - =
I'm kinda thinking that we are all eating dogma ... tis the only thing on the banquet table ;; This is hard to see cause it comes in so many shapes, sized and colors.
ever since the dawn of time people have been claiming that there was some kind of inteligence which comes into this dimension from another.
All that this proves is that people has always dogmaticly beleived they seen this most people would agree.
And just because one dogmatic group says to another "My God is bigger than your God" doesn't mean that they are actually not one and the same.
Science and knowledge satisfies my longing for the unknowns of the world, and understanding human nature tells me why there is, and always has been, greed and its accompanying fellows--sins, you may call them--to let us recognize goodness when we see it also.
= - = - =
Science and knowledge has taught us much about how things have come to be the way they are,From where they came from, right up to the boundaries of THIS plane.
As you see I agree with you a whole bunch ... but I don't buy the whole speach.
But perhaps you are right, Jerami. There is always something to bi*ch about in the world. Otherwise, it would be as dull as the believers make heaven sound to some of us.
= - = -
And on this last statement I think we agree 100%
Yes, those who believe in a god wish to think there are others as set in their ways as they are. Unfortunately there are. All religious groups feel this way. Sure, those of us have faith in certain things, but if we see they are wrong, or do not stand the scientific test, there are always those in the same field who will set us straight.
You don't see those in the same field of religious cults doing this, trying to prove their own god wrong. Instead they bolster each others silly theories about the flood, the virgin birth, and so on. For every scientist with a theory, there are ten or more trying to prove him/her wrong. And if they do so, they will also furnish facts which will increase our knowledge, not hold it back. Completely different than religion.
I am not selling anything, Jerami. Knowledge is free for those who want it. Expensive for those who do not.
Spotted your TRINITY CHALLENGE ABOVE :-
† Genesis 1 : 26 †
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
That would include YOU with your cattle ranch.
† Matthew 29 : 18 - 20 †
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
† 1 John 5 : 7 †
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
AMEN & AMEN
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Musi … suaded.mp3
Yes, those who believe in a god
= - = - =
that covers a lot of people with one broad stroke of the brush.
Other than this I don't know what to say cause I can't tell what part of my statement you are disagreenig with?
It doesn't matter, Jerami. We are cool! Thanks for having as open a mind as a believer can have. At least you open your eyes and look around. That's more than I can say for most others of your faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glypt … rawing.jpg
You're in my, used to be, Bible Study for Christians Randy.
I'm very aware of what spam is hot shot.
Let me help you correct yourself.
Please note: "...or otherwise unwanted..."
There's a link, and here is the first fifteen words to help ya out.
"Rules and Etiquette
Below are some basic guidelines to adhere to:
Stick to the topic. ..."
You were saying?
Down, Boy! Our God wants us to tell everybody, not just the easy ones. However, you get to shake the dust from your feet, if they don't recieve. Repay no man evil for evil. God takes pleasure in avenging his own.
There is no evil in that post. Please don't give them rise to foolish ideas.
Respectfully, they have enough ideas of their own without anyone giving them new ones.
And the smiley face indicates I'm actually smiling.
Good grief! What a petty vindictive god you worship.
God determines what's petty in this case. It seems like he considers offending his own a large offense.
Weird. I mock his own on a regular basis. Mostly because they say ridiculous (yes - I can spell) things like this.
If you don't want to be ridiculed - you should not say ridiculous things.
Dont you see who is being ridiculed? You. By you. You will see how as time goes by. Take mywords or leave them.
No - you are being ridiculed. Not me.
Threaten me all you like. I am not scared of your Boogey man.
Fyi...you are making yourself look ridiculous. You have all these ideas and intelligence eludes or overtakes you. You are too afraid of my God! People such as yourself hope my msg is not true. Have you ever thought of that?
Sadly - your message is ridiculous and divisive.
Your attitude is what makes this thing divisive. All you have to do is say, "You're wrong Genaea." And go back to your schemes. I won't be offended if you stop talking to me. Until then, my faith tel"s me I must labor with you. Say what you will, I will say what I must. And as long as you stay with me, I will tell it the same way, the word (every word, rightly divided) istrue. You have gone for my "jugular" a few times. Say what you will about me...God's word stands.
Don't you first have to believe something exists to be afraid of it? How could an atheist be afraid of your god?
Think about the logic there.
All will bow... Do you understand your logic??? I doubt that. You don't want to yield to this power that wakes you up for the past few days...searching. Deny all you want. You are here for what I have, take it, or leave it. You CANNOT change my mind. walk away, or ask for more. He that is in me is greater than he tat is in you.
I don't know to which power you are referring. As for your "last few days" comment, I have literally no idea what you are referring to.
If I "cannot" change your mind then you are closed minded and I have no idea why you would be proud to claim such a thing.
im open to new ideas. New concepts are interesting. But I read what interests me. I don't think I would run to a book entitled, Come to satans church early... Im not open to ideas that go against all that I've become in Christ. Have your life and think all you want. But for me, and my house, we will serve the Lord. It is unquestionably out of the question to even entertain such a foolish thought. But hey, that's my choice. I'm not bothered by your questioning of reality. I feel I have a firm footing on mine.
As for rightly dividing, we too have to consider the importnce of the matter. Some Christians believe that you should never visit a doctor, some will, visit. This does not keep either Christian from heaven. God decides if you followed him or not. Man sometimes can't tell.
I rest my case about your "open mindedness".
I knew you would play with that... Have fun! You know what I believe, for sure. But we never got around to your beliefs. Is it just safer gor you to swim in the sea of unsurety
I don't know how the universe came to be and that is the truth. To place belief in something just so I can say I have an answer is dishonest.
The universe is here, that is a fact, how it came to be is unknown. Any claim that a god or being created this universe is nothing more than your imagination.
Unless you can demonstrate it is true?
Well tell me a better idea as to what lit the fuse? before the bang!?
I just told you I don't know. How about the possibility that the matter/energy that make up this universe were always here? We know that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed so an eternal universe fits in pretty well don't you think?
There is also anti-matter to take in consideration. It's hard to explain to those who have not studied the phenomena. If matter is offset by anti-matter there is nothing. But it doesn't take much of a catalyst for the equality to be disturbed, resulting in solid matter, such as the Big Bang would represent.
This is a simple example, not to be taken as the complete explanation. If you can understand the difference in the positive and negative poles on a magnet, then you get the idea.
I saw a presentation by Lawrence Krauss entitled "A universe from nothing" which was about just that. I found it very interesting.
You got a point. In fact it sounds so easy and natural that it could be a happening hundred times a day... and we would never know it?
When I was growing up, not Christian, reading a lot of comic books, "anti-matter" was something in the Fantastic Four or Star Trek. I admit I don't understand it very well, or how you can have anti-matter contained by matter.
Anti-matter is not "contained by matter," Chris. This is why it is so hard for believers to understand how matter can be created from apparently nothing by the slightest disturbance in the stability of anti-matter. The results being--drum roll please--matter! The Big Bang theory is based on the result of just such an event. Of course, this is a very, simple explanation, but I'm trying to put it in a way it is easier to understand.
Perhaps someone else can do a better job of explaining it, or at least correct my simple example.
I'd appreciate it. I'm not stupid. And anti-matter isn't inherently un-Biblical, neither is dark matter. Granted, I wouldn't be able to immediately comprehend the arcana of it any more than I could grasp the arcana of the Theory of Relativity, but I can get the basics.
Someone gave a clearer explanation on one of these threads, Chris. But there are so many religious threads now I can't find it. I'll look some more for it when I get the time.
In the meantime, enjoy the psychedelic posts of the Elijah troll! They are worth a few laughs, if nothing else!
And I know you are not stupid, Chris. Never thought you were!
But you also need imagination to believe whatever about the beginning.. You must pick aa side. "I dont know" is not enough. You gotta belive something, right? If not, aren't you the one who's delusional?
That is absurd. Just because I don't know the answer is no reason at all to make something up and assert is as a fact.
"I don't know" is honest. making something up is not. Why do I HAVE to believe something about the origin of the universe? Where is the logic that led you to that conclusion
An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.
Kindly explain how saying "I don't know" is a delusion.
It is delusional to believe that I dont know is acveptable. Doesn't it sort of decide how you feel about everything else? I believe the Lord spoke the universe into existence. Therefore, I believe in his power. Therefore I believe he gave instructions, etc...
Delusion is defined as I quoted from a dictionary. Your beliefs fit in perfectly well with that definition. Since a delusion is a belief then my lack of belief cannot possibly be a delusion.
You said your belief in gods power is based on your belief he created the universe.
Unless you have any evidence for your claim then you must accept that the evidence against your belief makes you a prime candidate for the category of "delusional".
So, now you open up your psyche and explain whatever it is you believe and im sure, absurdities would be located. Faith, again, is key.
I told you three times already. I DON'T KNOW. I don't believe anything about the origin of the universe because I DON'T KNOW.
If you "open up my psyche" you will find nothing about the origin of the universe so how can any faith be necessary? How can not knowing the answer to something be absurd? How can not knowing require any faith?
You are talking absolute and utter nonsense and you are not even attempting to explain yourself.
Let me get this right...if I open you up, I find nothing? I don't know, is ok for you, and I'M absurd??? I told you many more than 3 times... Faith is key. See, you have faith that being undecided is acceptable. You have faith (whip out your dictionary again) that theundecided don.t have to make ffort to decide. You have all the info you need. Stand up and decide what you do believe.
Admitting that I don't know is being HONEST with myself and others. You are simply lying to yourself.
How is THAT acceptable?
I am being honest about what I believe. You are preventing decision in your own mind because you know that then you would be open to scrutiny. NOTHING you mention that you believe about our existence will be the 100% that you reuire so you tske the info and play safe? Buy obviously you are not happy floating. Now talk about absurd again.
Whether or not I am happy about my lack of knowledge on the topic is completely irrelevant. How can ones emotions have any effect on the truth?
I know you are being honest about what you believe but that is not what I am talking about. Your belief itself is the dishonest part. Can you demonstrate your claim to be true?
If not then you don't have any knowledge and your belief is based upon you deceiving yourself.
I am not making a decision because I don't decide what the truth is. What you and I decide does not change reality. I do not have enough information to even take a wild guess at the origin of this universe.
Just because you have decided that you are going to make up some story and deceive yourself in to believing it is true does not make it a reality.
All you believe in is your own imagination UNLESS you can demonstrate that it is actually true to yourself and others.
Since you wanted me to mention absurdity again, it is absurd to even bring emotions in to the discussion with regards to reality.
Emotions, or the fact that you're not happy where you are in thought, is what causes you to claim that something I believe is false because you have no experience with it. You have already admitted that you have no idea what the truth is but you are sure from your own tests and observation, that my ideas are all wrong??? Please, let's have this conversation when you can bring something to the table other than scrutiny, indecision, and false claims.
I am neither happy, nor sad, nor angry, nor bemused about my lack of knowledge about the origin of the universe. I have no emotional take on the topic whatsoever.
I do believe I asked you to verify your claims on multiple occasions and you failed to do so. Thus providing evidence as to your lack of evidence for your claims thus giving me good reason to disbelieve your claims.
Scrutiny is necessary when people are making such grand claims as you are without evidence. Indecision is a default position when there is no verifiable information about the topic at hand and false claims? You mean like ones about my emotions?
Listen, Jesus... The emotion is tied to the fact that you cannot disprove or prove anything! You don't like my decision to follow what I believe for me? We decide ourselves what delusion is. By faith. Any proof I give to you concerning my faith can and probably will be explained away by your cosmic thinking. Just as if you should take a stab and believe ANYTHING other than I, you'd have holes the size o Texas in your theory or theories. So, I guess since you have decided that your default position is fine for you, and you'd rather stay there, why must you voice? "Your idea is stupid, and I don't got no ideas" is a rather weak argument, don'cha think?
I never thought when I created my username that people would be calling me Jesus. How awesome it is.
Explain how not being able to prove or disprove something requires emotion.
I never said anything about what I like. You seem to be making up all sorts of claims about what I like and dislike and what emotions I am feeling. They are all in your imagination. I have told you nothing of the sort.
Not really. A delusion is something that is believed contrary to fact. We don't decide facts, they just are.
You haven't given me any proof and by the way, if you had proof then why do you need faith? You make less and less sense the more you talk. Faith AND proof? How does that work?
You talk as if belief is a choice? I can't choose what I believe. can you choose to believe in Santa?
I am not the one with the theories though, you are. How big is Texas?
What I would "rather" is an emotion and is irrelevant. Do I really need to explain this again?
Actually all I did was to request evidence of your claims. You are making a grand claim that if true will make a huge difference to billions of people on the planet including myself. Am I not entitled to question your claim that will affect my entire life?
I didn't say your idea was stupid either. Please stop making false claims or "lying" if you will.
As for the strength of my argument, I haven't made one. I am questioning YOUR argument and you (indcidentally) are failing miserably at providing anything to back it up.
Bless your heart... I feel like I'm in an argument with a third grader. Your posts get more and more petty as you progress. Rather is an emotion??? Preference is a better description. But how would you know? That may be a foreign concept to you. However, why then do you ask for proof when I insist that faith is the key element? Proof that my faith is valid exists if only you choose to believe it once it is shown. As for facts... For me, the evidence of God and Jesus, his son are facts! Who are you?? You spoke earlier about not needing to have a widespread belief but, you don't believe me because it doesn't match with the consensus on what is real? See... Indecision confuses you. You cannot believe secret squirrel and have a firm footing in this conversation. You think you making me look dumb, and I feel the same about you... Uncle?
Indeed, preference is based on emotions, Ie what you like. Thanks for the insult, you know where you can stick it. I have been polite enough but you can't manage being civil can you?
I asked for evidence. You are the one who brought up proof. Why don't you read the posts you wrote to see how wrong you are. Again.
I suggest you refer to a dictionary for the definition of "proof".
You never presented any evidence!!! What the hell are you talking about? Evidence is not a fact. Is English your second language? I can understand if that is so because you clearly don't understand the meaning of many words.
Yes, that is fairly normal. If your belief does not match with FACTS then why should I believe it?
Not in the slightest, yet you continue to make things up and assert them as fact (telling lies). Does that make you a liar?
I am not trying to make you look dumb. I am simply trying to get to the bottom of your life changing beliefs but you are being very stingy on the evidence and facts.
Why is that? Is it because you have NONE?
Ok, I have so much hope that you find your own way. The evidence of my faith is within the KJV bible. I just cannot believe that you are so analytical and reasonable and intelligent that you have now confused yourself. The words you use and the context in which you speak are so nonsensical. I have no idea what to say to you. I have an idea why you are so all over the place. Something, what was it?... based off of emotion is emotion? Um,...ok, proof and evidence go hand in hand, don't they? And you just found a way to explained that they weren't when I know you at least knew what I meant by the statement. Also, this way you have of breaking up the conv. gives you time to come up with clever remarks, to taunt a child of God for showing you that you no longer have to walk around in darkness? Your mind starts to waver when you waver, for nothing is for certain, saving for your coffee. You feel as if you're being civil? Go decide.
Who says I haven't?
Just like muslims evidence is in the koran and hindu's evidence is in the ghita, but you don't believe those do you? What is the difference between any of them?
I'm not confused about anything.
You are going to have to explain that. Haven't I asked you on multiple occasions to explain yourself but you haven't bothered? I guess you won't bother on this occasion either huh?
I am all over the place? I can logically explain everything I have said to you but when questionned, you fail to explain yourself. Why is that? Why don't you explain yourself? Proof and evidence do not go hand in hand. Jesus christ are you being serious? Do you own a dictionary?
I give up. You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Every claim of yours that I have questionned you have failed to back up.
YOU have made all the claims and all I have done is question them. You have retalliated by insulting my intelligence instead of backing up your claims.
I think you have nothing to back up your claims. You are just asserting nonsense that you can't even explain.
All I have done is ask you to explain or provide evidence for you life changing claims.
All you have done is ignore my requests and insult me.
Up your ****
Thank you. You are very mystical. I appreciate you letting me off so easy. You ask me over and over to explain...yet, you offer no explanation yourself? Then walk me round and round your circle of the mysterious and though you comb through my words, you don't read them with understanding. I guess I can understand that. Have a good one.
I haven't made a claim so I don't have anything to explain? What claim do you think I made that requires an explanation? Please copy and paste it so I can see exactly what I wrote that you think is a claim.
Your claims go against fact. My understanding of them is irrelevant.
I haven't gotten onto the intricacies of cutting and pasting but I feel your claim lies solely in the fact that I'm wrong about God and Jesus. I thought that that was the point of our Exchange. Yes, your understanding of what is factual to me IS irrelevant. Can we stop now?
Fair enough if you want to stop. I did not claim you were wrong, I simply asked you to back up your claims which is perfectly reasonable. You failed to do so.
I think your problem is that what is factual to you is the same as what is factual to everyone. There is no such thing as personal facts. They are either facts for everyone or they are not facts at all.
I think that is where your confusion lies. Also you assume too much of people. You have made countless claims about me that are just not true.
Have you read any of my posts? You ask me to "back-up" something that requires faith??? I don't WANT to stop if you still need me. But I feel that this conv is pointless if all you're going to to is ask me to back up faith. Give it a rest. Unless you have a real question, that I will answer based upon my faith, not yours.
Still preaching hate and ill will I see. Why is that exactly?
Are you angry that reality contradicts your faith?
You see hate and ill will from me? Reality contradicts my faith in YOUR mind. Why would I be mad about that? I have all the facts I need for me, regarding my faith. You wish I would get angry. You want to see that you shook me? You can't. You see ill will from me... Do you think that to be a fact because that is what you see? Is it reality? A ploy...? You people are starting to feel like parasites. I'm being honest about my reality. So is it a fact that you are? Or does there have to be evidence or proof?
No - reality is independent of my opinion. I wondered if it made you angry that it contradicts your FAITH?
As you seem to be angry and - yes - you are projecting ill will.
Where is the ill will? I never run from correction. I want to see my error so that I may check it. I am mirroring your forceful with the force in me. Who's mad?
No - you have it the wrong way around. I am mirroring you.
Not a big fan of turning the other cheek I see. Always the other guy's fault huh?
To me, it means, let them figuratively keep on hitting. I haven't had my bible with me, so, I may have it a little off, but I know not much. Keep on hitting. I don't hurt.
You have been hit? This is why you guys cause so much ill will. I thought bearing false witness was a sin.
Faith? You were JUST this second talking about FACTS!!! Yesterday you were talking about PROOF.
I don't mean to offend but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
If I ask you to verify your belief you talk about facts and proofs so when I question your facts and proofs you go back to the faith thing again.
I think you need to study the English language further before you can have such discussions. You make no sense and you contradict yourself consistently.
If you have proof based on facts like you claimed you have then you don't need faith.
I was referring to the other posts. I explained the thing about proof, evidence and faith. Not my fault you don't get it. So, i will try again... My facts are in the KJV. That is not fact to you... See? Our faith, lies in two different areas because our facts are different. See, you place your faith in the texts that disprove my facts, KJV. I have faith that the KJV is fact, and my proof lies in the Spirit that lies within me, that also takes faith to believe. I know it is confusing for you, but there is reason for that. If you get here, and you still don't understand, read my post, slower.
There is your problem, right there. Obviously you don't understand the meaning of the words "facts," "proof" or "evidence."
What you have there are "beliefs."
Perhaps if you stuck to the agreed meaning of these words you would have less arguments? IDK - worth a try maybe? Let me know when you have learned the true meaning of these words. Maybe we could talk sensibly then.
If you read her nonsense slower it will become factual, Mark. She said so!
Yeah - I got that. And they wonder why they get called condescending.
Possibly clearer, are you reading? Or just looking for a way to shake me?
Obviously, no sensible conversation will ensue. I believe that everything I say is true. We can't even agree on definitions. I think that "reality is independent of my opinion" is an utterly ridiculous and picky statement. If you confuse the language, if I am confused by the language, or we are both using faulty dictionaries; we cannot reach an agreement. We have been toe-to-toe with this thing for a reason. Guess why?
Because I hate liars and prefer to use accepted definitions of words, but you want to stick your Invisible Super Being to me and I won't have any of that nonsense?
Go buy a dictionary. Then we can talk.
This would be why your religion causes so many fights.
No, because you'd rather "argue over words" and, he that is in me is greater than he that is in you. We could pull in some scholars now who would laugh at your "facts, proof, evidence, beliefs" confusion. You should read over the posts again. and buy a better dictionary.
Just because you believe something does not make it a fact to anyone. You are confusing beliefs and facts. They are not the same thing.
Your FAITH is in the KJV bible. That does not make the bible factual. It still remains a book full of unproven stories and not facts whether you believe in it or not.
No I don't. The facts that disprove your KJV are verifiable facts and because they are verifiable (they can be tested to be true). Because they are verifiable facts, then no faith is required in order to believe they are true because you can see that they are true.
That is completely different to what you said before about "your facts being in the KJV". Your first statement was a claim that the bible is fact. This second statement is a claim that you believe it is a fact. They are two very different claims.
Proof does not require faith by definition. What you have is faith in an unproven spirit which noone can demonstrate to exist and it therefor unverifiable.
It is not confusing for me. You simply do not understand the meaning of the words you are using (fact and proof) and as a result, you are contradicting yourself and not making any sense.
Correct me if I am wrong, but what you are trying to say is that you have faith which does not require proof or evidence. This faith leads you to believe that your belief is factual. Your faith is based on the emotions inside you which you believe is your spirit or gods spirit. Again, this is based on faith and not facts or evidence or proof.
I think really, all you have is faith. You don't have any evidence or proof (since I requested it many times and you did not deliver any) and your faith is so strong that you will ignore any facts that disprove it.
I only questionned your claims because you asserted that they were true. It is perfectly acceptable to request someone to provide evidence or proof when they are making claims of fact.
I think this entire discussion has been a result of the misunderstanding of the words "fact" and "proof".
Yes, fact and proof are also terms that can be ambiguous. Facts are disproven, remember they thought the earth was flat? The conversation is an argument over words because you haven't a leg...for your faith, proof, evidence interpretations. Facts are facts to those that believe. You believe you have facts to disprove my argument but it really only boils down to what you believe. I don't believe that any proof to discredit the existence of God exists, therefore, you cannot prove me wrong. Therefore, u cannot prove your argument, whatever it is.
No they aren't. People who CLAIM facts falsely can be disproven but a fact is a fact. If it could be disproven then it wouldn't ever have been a fact.
Yes, and it was never a fact. It was a belief. People believed that is was a fact, but in reality it was never a fact. You're still confusing the two.
Well now you are just talking nonsense again because I HAVEN'T CLAIMED ANYTHING.
Just because someone BELIEVES it is a fact, does not make it a fact. Your beliefs do not change the facts of reality.
So you are saying it is only a belief that the world is more than 6000 years old even though we can scientifically test and verify that it is older?
You are saying that it is only a belief that humans evolved and were not derived from adam and eve even though we have thousands of fossils proving that species evolved which can be verified and tested?
Whether you believe the facts exist or not has no bearing at all on whether or not I can disprove them.
While noone can disprove any god exists (because you cannot disprove the non existant) there are facts that disprove the bible.
Whether you choose to be ignorant of them or not is your choice.
Now PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go and get a dictionary and find out what "proof", "fact", "belief", and "faith" is defined as because you have clearly made up your own definitions of the words that noone else is aware of.
Please give me the number of the 6000+yr old man who gave you this info on the earth's age. Since this conversation is so interesting, you can let me see the results you compiled on your scientific test. Also, please introduce me to Adam and Eve's neighbor so that I may view the fragile pictures. I just need some evidence that you are right. Those test results may be a bit confusing for me, so could you please enclose your formulas for how you calculate the age of the earth many moons ago. Nevermind, that neighbor should be able to help me.
Why not do as the rest of have already done and ignore her. She cannot be reached with logic. You might as well be explaining calculus to an orange.
But God is true, so if He has proven Himself, then we should believe the rest of what is said about Him (in the Bible, that is.)
We don't claim to believe something just to have an answer.
You might not but the person I was replying to certainly implied that she was.
I am not claiming that you do. I was responding to a poster who was asking me what I believed and added that not knowing was not good enough for them.
They claimed I HAD to believe something about the origin of the universe and went on to claim that claiming lack of knowledge was delusional.
I know, It doesn't make sense to me either.
Referring back to your post about why you get caught in petty exchanges, that's why. People say things, and it's difficult not to respond. There are people who I literally cannot read their posts anymore because I know that sooner rather than later I'll start doing stupid arguments with them.
"[The devil] was a murderer from the beginning." (John 8:44)
"Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children" (Ezek. 9:6)
"God so loved the world.." (John 3:16)
"I will wipe humankind ..from the face of the Earth." (Gen. 6:7)
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Shake em off!
Randy? I think that there might be a whole bunch of truth laying about half way between both of our attitudes.
Betcha a nickle!
"Sorry you think you can prevent certain people from entering a forum thread. I knew you were brave. I could tell.
Really - I am considering becoming a warrior of christ myself.
Anti-christian is probably a better name to call me. Christ has been proven to have never existed."
Well Mark, I already told you I'd rather them see you run around in here in spite of the OP. The more viewers, the merrier I am.
Anti-Christ will do. The definition fits you.
And I'm not brave. You are.
Cite your sources of this 'proof'. What? Did they fail to find his birth certificate? No such proof exists.
I just stated a proven fact - it is up to you guys to disprove it. That is how it works - right?
Law school not an option or you just didn't pay attention?
Just taking a leaf from your book. Sorry you didn't understand, but I am glad you agree this is nonsense.
Now prove Jesus and God exist. Go!
No, you prove he did not exist.......... Go! See? I even gave you more time.
I was not speaking to you. I already proved it does not exist. Your refusal to accept reality is none of my business.
Please repost the comment, or refer me to the hub, where you have proved God does not exist. I would be very interested in reading that.
And your refusal to accept truer reality is none of mine. We've stated our positions, if you don't agree, it's ok with me. I don't feel that disrespect should be my next tactic.
I didn't mean to be gone all of the sudden ... You know how it is when the meat comes outa the smoker ... neighbors come by quicker than mmm-skeeters.
For the rec...what you like is described as emotion? Or are you trying to trick me again?
Mark is pretty delusional, though, he can't admit it. That's the thing about delusion.
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