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Working full-time on the internet - how do you get taken seriously

  1. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Help - some gratuitous advice is needed!

    Background: I'm 44, I have worked, at least part-time since  I was 15, I went to uni, graduated and then either worked or travelled full-time for the next 20+ years.  Last year we travelled from Mar-Sept Sept we got as far as Perth and decided to stay a while.  Since Sept I have been trying to make a living full-time on the internet. My partner, is10 years older than me and has basically worked since he graduated  -mainly as a developer (IT) and has now got a contract until the end of this year in our  new town.  We have no children, we have investments to cover our retirement and my partners current salary comfortably covers our expenses here. 

    To date my earnings are hardly spectacular (under $100/month) and basically my partner is pretty convinced that this is a nice hobbie but I should go and get a real job! I am beginning to agree with him too. 

    The issues I have is
    * I don't want to go back to IT: I doubt that  I could anyway -  the place I worked for last imploded after I left (unrelated I think!) and I haven't bothered to keep in contact to get a reference
    * I actually can't think of anything else I want to do except maybe writing - but I can't see that my income is going to get up to any sort of serious level doing that on or off line (I'd count $1000/ month as a good start and $2000/month sustainable)
    * I think we have enough $ to retire now - my partner agrees intellectually but basically he doesn't know what to do with himself if he's not working or travelling pretty hard (and you can't do that for more than 6 months at a go both of us find).
    *  Given he's working he thinks I should be bringing in income too, and so do I - I've always felt sorry for guys stuck in horrible jobs just to support their wives/kids, I imagine raising kids is difficult and challenging but at least there is a point to it - there are precious few jobs in IT that have much of a point to them!
    * I think I am too lazy to commit to 40 hours a week work - I find I am really happy getting enough sleep, pottering around home, and actually being able to organise stuff like re-registering the truck without rushing form work and back in-between times.

    Ways forward - well this is where I am a bit stuck:
    * initially I expected to have a reasonable income on the internet or given up by Xmas - that didn't happen  -my income increases every month but I can see my timeframe as more a year now!
    * I have a some of money in investments (mine not ours) which I could deposit in our current account and which would buy me about 6-12 months of time on the internet to develop this business - if that's what it is
    * I get a low skilled part-time job like cleaning which at least looks like a job, bring in some income, keeps me fit

    Ideas, suggestions - I'm open to them - even if I was home with friends none of them would understand most of this!

    1. relache profile image87
      relacheposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Looking at my own experiences of living off my internet earnings, I suggest you go get the day job your partner is bugging you about.

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Got it - well its a sorta day job - 5am isn't really day as far as I am concerned but its warm enough in Perth this time of year to get out of bed! Nothing special  - just cleaning 3 hours a weekday but about $20/hr plus 4 weeks leave isnt too bad - and it still leaves the days free to write! One of the problems with profesisonal jobs is I find either
        a) I am burned out from thinking all day and have no energy to be creative outside of work intellectually - though dancing is a good respite or
        b) I am so bored at work I surf the whole time and get nothing done for either my employer or me!

        Hopefully in this job with no internet access  I will just go to work and then come home - which seems reasonable. 

        And it was so easy to get - no reference check, no CV, fill in the form answer the questions, go to the induction video tomorrow, start the next day - it was an eye opener!

    2. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      That's another point I meant to make.  The popular image of earning a living from the internet is that it's a passive thing:  you may work full-time to set it up, but then you can sit back and work part-time and the earnings roll in.  But as far as I can see, it's like any small business - if you want to make a living, you have to work MORE hours than a day job in the beginning - most people I've spoken to have burned the midnight oil to start with.  Then, because you have to constantly keep your content fresh, it's at least a 5 or 6 hours a day job to keep it going. 

      I'm like you - I think most people would like to work fewer hours a week!  But I've come to the conclusion that I can't have it both ways.  If I want to work part-time, then I have to spend those hours doing something that pays reliably and well.  If I want to do something that's part work/part fun, then I have to be prepared to put in the hours to make up for the low hourly rate.

      Lissie, have you tried thinking laterally about the kind of work you could do?  Could you offer consultancy services, for instance (then you'd still be your own boss)?  Rather than signing up as a cleaner, why not register with a temp agency and see if you can do reception, office work etc?

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        The temp agency was my first thought - I am an excellent typist - but I checked the rates and they are about the same as cleaners - maybe $21 instead of $17 base rate - but as a cleaner  I will get nearly $50 for working a public holiday - work the hours  I want, (I find 9-2 or 3 just takes the middle out of my day - I want early morning hours , not evenings of course because they are for dancing)  not pay for clothes (free uniform) not pay much for transport (local work) - interesting comparison eh? Maybe I will hate it but - let you know come Wed when when I start!  Also cleaning is more physical than clerical and the best way to keep the weight I took off, staying off is to keep moving  and not have a workplace with a snack machine! Oh and that's with no experience btw so I think if I can get some experience on machines etc the rate will be going up in a few months - where as the admin rate wouldn't be going anywhere!

        I have thought about my own business  - nearly went mortgage broking a couple of years ago.  Trouble I have with it is we arent committed to being in Ausralia for the long haul there's not much point building up a client base and walking away! Even at home I don't know that I would want a commitment which would stop me taking off for a couple of months travelling which is why I am heading towards what Embtica is talking about. 
        OF course one of the ways to sort your retirement out is to move to a cheaper country- the Americans have been moving to Costa Rica and Mexico for years but I don't think it has caught on as much in Australia/NZ yet  - probably won't in NZ because you loose your pension if you leave for >6 months

        1. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          You're doing well to get $17.  Here in Sydney it would be more like $13, so I was basing my suggestion on that.  I guess there must be more of a shortage in Perth, with so many people finding work in the mining boom. 

          Personally, I couldn't make economic sense of working for that kind of money, when I can do my real job for $40 an hour for a few months - and afford to take long breaks whenever I want.  But I know you've taken that approach before and it hasn't worked for you.  I guess I'm lucky in that I fundamenatlly like the work I do, even if corporate idiocy and office politics are annoying.

          1. makemoneyonline profile image60
            makemoneyonlineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah I'm also working in corporate It's so boring and I hate these incompetents who have just talent to try to conspire against others for climing higher; but I'm well paid so I won't complain as many can't have that chance. But as soon as I'm sure I can quit this world of idiots financially I will do it without regret big_smile

      2. makemoneyonline profile image60
        makemoneyonlineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Marisa I fully agree with you. I am really willing to be my own boss again (I've already been in past and I got even two full time engineer employees) but that's not reasonable to do that  without any realistic plan. So I have looked for a stable job that I found happily and I'm now prospecting the opportunities to build this plan. It isn't enough to just say I wanna earn 2000$ as Lissie wishes (which wouldn't be enough as for me it would rather be something like 7000$ per month to be equal to my salaried job in Europe), you must know How. Of course a plan is just a plan but at least you try to know the road.

      3. Greg from Maine profile image77
        Greg from Maineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Hello to everyone on this thread.

        I am new here and would to add my 2 cents. I've owned a small business for over 20 years. All of the small business owners that I know (myself included) work much harder than the average employee.

        Employees get paid by the hour and don't have nearly as much incentive to work at maximum efficiency.

        My background is in construction. It is no secret how bad that industry is suffering right now. I was able to read the hand-writing on the wall 2 years ago and started learning everything that I could about earning money online. For the last 2 years I've been busy trying to make the change from offline business owner to online business owner.

        I have succeeded in replacing my entire offline of 2 years ago, when times were much better. I could work only and hour or two per day and my online income would remain steady. However I choose to work more than that in order to continue to grow my online income.

        It is possible to develop that elusive passive income from the internet. However, it really does take a lot of work. Much more work than most employees are willing to put forth. That comment is not meant in a derogatory way to anyone. I ams simply trying to point out the fact that passive income is doable, but it takes a moutain of work to achieve it, as it does to successfully build any small business into a reliable success.

        Starting a small business of any kind is a very large task, and not everyone is cut out for it.

        Just my 2 cents. Keep searching and I'm sure you'll find exactly something that is the perfect fit for you.

        Good luck!

        1. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, Greg, that's the conclusion I've come to, too!   How many hours a week did it take you to get to where you are now?  And how long did you have to do that for?

          Lissie - what you said about friends not making it to retirement rings a bell for me.  My parents worked hard all their lives, then my Dad had a stroke within months of his retirement and Mum got cancer shortly afterwards - so they never got to enjoy what they'd worked so hard for.  I remember one of my colleagues who gave up his holidays for his last few years in work, planning a huge world trip with his wife as soon as he retired - and his wife died a month before his retirement presentation.

          So you see, I'm very conscious of not putting off till tomorrow what you can do today.  But for me, now, a part-time or contract "real" job seems to be the best way to do it.  And I can't help feeling it may actually be the best thing for you, too, because what Greg - and others - are saying is, if you want to make money from the internet you have to put in the long hours first.  And I get the feeling you don't want to slog over a hot computer for eight hours a day for a year or two, you want the relaxed lifestyle NOW. 

          I'll be interested to see what Greg has to say, but I fear that's a case of trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

        2. Lissie profile image86
          Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Some do - as a  a "professional" neither my partner nor I used to be - however we go over that stupidity and are now paid by the hour as contractors!

          I'd love to know how you did it - is your online business related to construction? Or did you branch out entirely - it could make a good hub - its always interesting to here real stories as opposed to the b..sh..t  on line marketers that you will be all too familiar with
          BTW if you want opportunities in construction : Australia especially Western Australia are desperate for anyone with construction skills!

    3. deannacourtney profile image60
      deannacourtneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lizzy--I was a little lost a few years ago. I have recently found my passion. But it wasn't until I found an online resource. It is free and I do not financially benefit from the sit, but because I'm new to this Hub pages, I don't know if it's ok to tell you about it here...That seems crazy to me--it's like when I was a teen and I thought my mom was watching...You may email me, I suppose and I will share.

      I just wrote an article about starting a home business and what to look out for so you don't get hurt...that might be of interest to you.

      Another Idea: Last summer when I was "searching" I came up with the idea of MISS (ellaneous) D's  --service and referrals. Basically I have alot of household talents and I offered services of emergency daycare, cleaning, organizing, garden work...singing...etc... Created a little advertising budget; I received great interest and made a couple thousand dollars last summer.  People would call for availability and cost.

      You seem like you have alot going for you, but you are just missing your passion--and that Lizzy will come!
      Bless you!,
      Deanna Courtney

      1. deannacourtney profile image60
        deannacourtneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        BTW--Lizzy if you decide to clean--consider "green cleaning" you can make more an hour, plus you will not be exposed to dangerous toxins. Deanna

    4. socialmarketing profile image59
      socialmarketingposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Lissie...

      After 13 years in this industry I can sure relate to your post here.  Thank God I've got a supportive wife.  I came through the old school circles and had early success, but have struggled over the last year and a half.

      The solution to my situation was education.  I was so stuck in my old ways that I wouldn't take the time to learn new ways.

      Since I have started learning new ways, everything has changed.  Getting listed on the search engines is no longer a problem.  Neither is getting leads to build my business. 

      I'd be more than happy to share what is helping me...

      Rex - www.rexharris.net

      1. Mark Knowles profile image62
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        He can be your guru - he obviously is an expert. That's why he's here - just to help people.

        Oh and if you don't agree with his bullshit,clueless, lying marketing rubbish, he will delete your comments from his hub.

        1. Lissie profile image86
          Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I agree Mark - an excellent example of the crap you have to wade thru on the internet! I guess this thread has got so long its appealing to the marketers!

          GBJ if your figuers claimed are true, then you make my point - you started 5 years ago - I started over years ago in property - and now control $2 million of property without needing to use any of my income! I took the equity in my own home and now control 8 properties .  I have an income of over $50k!
          None of the above is a lie - however the $ are NZ not US - one of the properties is a JV with my brother, and some of the other's were very, very cheap.  Oh and I have an interest bill of $55k a year - but the rest of its true, honest!  And I started when interest rates where about 6% and now they are 10% and I could get a rental yield of 10%, now its about 4% ! Obviously I should write a e-book about it!

    5. cfperez profile image59
      cfperezposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      http://hubpages.com/hub/Tips-for-findin … d-Business
      Found a good article for you!  I think the year to work forward on your home-based career is the best bet, and a good investment in yourself.  Make sure you finance the expenses of new learning! Reinvent yourself by learning or integrating a set of money-making skills with educational investments. Find out what the gurus are really doing, pay for a course designed to help you make a concrete product that is needed and wanted by thousands!

      good luck!

    6. privateye2500 profile image61
      privateye2500posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I could write a book in answer to your question; but I don't have the time nor inclination since everything I write on these hubs doesn't seem to be very mcu appreciated and I mainly only write to try and help peoploe.

      So...short anser to your Q and why I have the Answer.

      I have been making a very good full-time living ONLINE ONLY for the pasy 8-10 years; before that it was both but doing the same thing, just online and off.

      How was your main question.

      After having read what amounts to 1000's of forums, pages, articles, books, etc....the most valuable piece of info I ever learned eas this:

      You have to *Brand* yourself.  You simply have to - you have to be the first website/person/*Thing* that enters a persons mind when they are looking for suchandsuch.  What/who was the greatest *brand* of all time (aside from coke-tm)?  Jesus Christ.  Think about it.  Who or what else had a branding that has lastest ever since his death...?  THE ANSER IS - NOONE.

      SO - you figure out what you do BEST - then you study your competition.  This can and often is disheartening; but if you give up there - then you know you are not cut out for this.  You have to study your comp and then you figure out how to ratchet it up a knotch or three.

      YOU HAVE to figure out how you are going to do it BETTER, WISER, with more finess...etc.....There is a GREAT book written by a guy name *Finkel* I believe that explains it all and makes more sense than anything I've ever read about marketing.

      My clients/customers get treated like little gods.  They get TOP-Knotch client support - they KNOW ME and they know they can trust me.

      In a nutshell that is the KEY to success.  My clients love me and I *love* them back and I never take them for granted.

      When you start - if you are too *lazy* as you put it - to invest 14 - 16 hour days into building your empire.  Forget it.  There is no easy road as so MANY want you to believe - because if you believe then you will buy their lil 10 page book for 5.95 or whatever......

      Coke will always havew Pepsi to contend with but so what!?  They are both billion dollar companies!


      1. 0
        TAKTravelposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I just wanted to thank you for your post and say that you are right. BRANDING YOURSELF IS KING.  My husband posted to this forum, this is his wife Kristin.  We have opened the doors to our business which is solely online and the start up is hard work.  My husband and I both spend about 8-10 hours (all while raising our son) a day working and calling prospects or training our new members.  We work hard and to see that we were immediately pegged as a scam seems to negate all our hard work.  We didn't decide to start our business lightly and did plenty of research before investing our hard earned money.  We are an incorporated business and truly offer a a great product. It is not working from home it is your own business.   We offer training to new business owners but you don't work for us. These forums are not for advertising so I am not going to go into further detail.  I will say all my husband was doing when he posted was telling you how we work full time online. It's not easy to get taken seriously online because you cant see your clients face to face but with hard work it is possible.

        1. Lissie profile image86
          Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Yes I jumped to a conclusion and flagged your original post - now deleted as spam.  I have now checked your website in more detail: and it is definitely a pyramid selling scheme where each person gets paid a commission on their downline thus building up to huge , and theoretical figures.  Yes you are a LLC -now I am not a US citizen but I understand getting a LLC is just as easy in the US as anywhere else in the world and absolutely no guarantee of  any thing except you filled in a few forms and filed it with the local government office. 

          if you really did start this whole scheme I suggest that u invest in a web site designer because your squeeze page is one of the worst Ive seen.  Also I personally find it particularly offensive to use a small child as part of your branding.  But there again here is another site
          www. yourglobalexpert .com same video, different small child small sales copy - gee looking like a pyramid to me

          oh and when I googled "grm" all  I got was paid advertising - so even if you are making $1000/sale - how much are you paying - $1001 ?

    7. dotchianni profile image61
      dotchianniposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      That sleep thing is what gets me! LOL I had to laugh because I totally understand. I worked as a certified nurse aide for 2 1/2 years. The 16 hour shifts 3 and 4 or 5 days in a row about killed me. I knew I needed to quit when I fell asleep standing up on day. Hmmm... I smell a hub in the making... anywhoodles, I decided it wasn't worth my health.

      No one really takes me serious with writing though. They think I do nothing but surf the internet all day long. sad It's kind of depressing. And If my world fell apart right now, I'd have to get a real job, like dressing like a bum and begging for money. Actually, I'd have a nervous breakdown if I had to get a daytime out of the house job.

      I'll quit rambling... Here are my ideas...

      Buy Reader's Digest and submit your stories and jokes and whatnot to them. I find when I am reading the magazine, my mind wanders to the time I did blablabla... Write it down and mail it off to them.

      Buy your favorite magazines (start with one or two) and submit articles to them. Really work it. If you want help with that, I can semi-offer help.

      Don't get discouraged at the first rejection letter. Rejections are one step closer to acceptance. My goal is to collect 365 rejection letters! Then I'll write a book about it on lulu.com and make a fortune. Or not. LOL I look forward to my rejection letters now. It's sad, but I kind of hope to get them because negative feedback is still feedback.

      Ebay, like they said above. I was selling Atari stuff on ebay. You can make a killing on that! My best month was close to $3,000. I kid you not! I found a vision system thing in my closet, said "Huh. That might sell." And slapped it on ebay. I made $1,175 off the set! I literally had $10,000 worth of equipment and didn't know it. Mine was the higher seller out of all of them. There are tips and tricks to selling too. You would be wise to research that before jumping head long into it.

      Specialty Merchandise Inc... If you like that kind of thing. We (my friend and I) had a business going of it. We sold stuff from the catalogs, had raffles with the things that we wanted to get moving ($1 a ticket for 50 people for a $30 item. Sweeeeet). Granted, by the time we celebrated every good week and sale, we spent all we earned. But it was more fun than anything. It has a start up cost though. Which is the part that keeps me from doing it again. (She died. I got depressed. Forgot to pay. Had trouble caring about it. Etc)

      Yard sales can be fun. We made more off of going to Sam's (or costco) and bulk buying sodas and snacks to resell to the shoppers. In a hot climate, we made a small fortune doing that. Figure out the price per can and double it, if it's not too terrible a price.

      I hope you do well. I am trying my best too and I know it is hard. I am newer at this than you are so I 1) get a reality check but 2) am encouraged by people who are still going at it. So thank you.

    8. 59
      JennieTarverposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I am a stay at home mom and have 2 children. I work on my computer from home and make a decent living! I book travel and I enjoy it! I fyou want any info, just contact me by email for more details.Its not super easy work, but its enjoyable, not stressful, and you are still at home!

  2. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago


    What about eBay?  I know people say it is less worthwhile now, but I still think it has potential.

    It was easy for me to try it, because I was able to cut my teeth on selling stuff I had around the house - old stamp and coin collections, unwanted jewellery, pots and pans, golf clubs etc.  I made over $3,000 from that alone.  And when you consider I've spent half my life travelling round the world (not sitting in one house for fifty years) and am known for NOT being a hoarder, that's pretty impressive.  That's not going to be an option for you, since you're travelling light.

    Are there many house clearances around Perth?  I did well by going along to house auctions and buying up the small stuff at the end - for instance, a bunch of souvenir spoons for $10, which I cleaned up (they were all silver) and sold individually.  They sold for about $10 EACH.  Then there was the World War I medal that I listed for $1 and sold for $624...

    Most people who go to the house clearances are after the big stuff like antiques, not the little odds and ends, so they usually go cheap. 

    I haven't tried it myself, but buying old incomplete dinner sets can be profitable too. My old boss's mother died and he had a Royal Doulton set to get rid of.  I told him not to sell the whole set, but to sell it piece by piece.  He made about $1000!  I suppose there are always people out there trying to replace broken pieces in their own sets.

    I don't do this myself any more - I've decided to go back to the day job for another 6 months to a year, to build up some funds for travelling.  It can be time-consuming, but the sales can be fascinating and it sounds like you'd have the time to do it.  If you like rummaging around in op shops, this is a great excuse!

    1. belief713 profile image78
      belief713posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I've also made a decent amount selling used items on eBay during rough times. On average I've made $1000-$2000/month, but that was only for about 4 month total. Then I ran out of things to sell (and most were high priced electronics or similar items)! You'd be surprised to see what you're willing to part with (if you're a pack rat like me) after you start getting some money back on items you've never or barely used. I don't know if I can really consider it a profit - more like money unnecessarily spent  - recouped.

      Just be careful with the eBay seller fees and other little fees (paypal) because they add up quickly and if you're items don't sell or you set a reserve too high, etc, you've now lost money. If you give it a try, use http://auctiva.com (free) to bypass some of the listing fees (each pic costs USD 15 cents+, which adds up quickly). Also, if it's an item that definitely sells for a reasonable price (you will need to research it using the complete items check box on the left hand side of eBay), you can use a starting bid of 99 cents to help cut your listing fee cost. Do some research, don't buy any ebay programs. You can usually find free info or pdfs, you just have to search for them. If you need any links, let me know, I have a bunch!

      The different eBay affiliate ideas are also neat. Search "ebay craigslist affiliate" and you'll see you can do something with that also. I have a friend who made $115 in 2 weeks doing that at about 2-3 hours per day (on a dial-up connection, so I'm sure the same results can be achieved in a lot less time with a high-speed connection). Although, I know you're looking to supplement your income much more than that, it's a start. I've been meaning to try it but have gotten "distracted" writing hubs!

      But the other mention of article marketing and creating ebay affiliate niche content sites sounds like a good idea - something I may look into myself smile

      1. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        That was my experience exactly. All that clutter that you couldn't get rid of because it was "too good to give away", right?  In fact I got so good at seeing the earnings potential of stuff in the house that my then boyfriend said he would have to start nailing things down, or we'd have nothing left!

        Clickbank.com - I joined and had a browse through it.  Looked like a load of junk to me, frankly.  The products are all over-hyped e-books by complete unknowns - I wouldn't part with money for them and I wouldn't feel comfortable promoting them to poor vulnerable suckers!

  3. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    That's a really interesting idea Marissa - I don't mind a bit of shopping so  I could probably handle getting out and about to try that one out.  I have used NZ's version of EBay, Trademe, to have the sort of clear out that you described - and yes it would have been thousands of dollars of books, clothes and unopened perfume. Thanks

  4. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Just don't make the mistake I did and try graduating to bigger, higher-value stuff.  It didn't work!    It is fiddly to work with small stuff like spoons, cleaning them up, photographing every little item and then having to post them all out.  But you can easily make 100% or 200% profit on a small thing where you'll only make a small margin on the big stuff.

    That reminds me, I wrote up a guide to eBaying for a friend of mine once.  I must find it - maybe it will make a Hub!

    1. diana1000 profile image60
      diana1000posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Marissa

      Please if you find that help on getting started on ebay I would really be interested.

      Also any help and suggestions as to where to submit articles,writing of manuals and whatever else .

      I live in Mozambique in Africa and run my own successful business and would love at the end of the day to stop put my feet up and relax however that is not possible.

      There are 30 families that depend on me providing them with a basic income and the number of requests for help are growing caused by the steep rise in the economy plus fuel prices.

      Actually recently read an article staying that oil is expected to rise to USD 600.00 before the end of 2008.  We all know who to blame for that don't we.

      Me thinks another Hitler lurking is around in a certain country nameless though he will remain!

      Due to the fact that my accountant(Gee I detest those guys) has said that due to rising costs etc. etc. if I want to continue supporting these people I must look outside of my business for providing for them.  Hence me now prepared to try ebay, write articles,blogs and whatever else can be suggested to me.

      Marissa you say casually only USD 25.00 per article believe it or not that will sustain a family albeit basically for a whole month.

      You may also contact me under separate cover my address is in my request to Jason.

      Thank you kindly and take care of yourself Diana

      nI myself run my

  5. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Marisa I  look forward to the hub - I'm thinking the next time there is a cheap flight to Bali maybe  I should go on a buying trip .... Work and travel - now that's a good combo!

  6. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Thanks - yes I have looked at some of the freelance sites - I am a bit put off by earning less than  I would earn cleaning people's houses though! I think I will keep looking at and only go for an interesting topic.  I have also thought about technical writing - my hubs explaining technical stuff to beginners seem to get good feedback so maybe I am OK at explanations

    1. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      That's how I feel.  I know writers on Helium who say they are "very happy with their earnings" because they're cashing in $200 a month.  But check their profile and they've written OVER TWO THOUSAND ARTICLES!    When I ask them how long it took them to write all that, they say they don't know - it didn't feel like work because they love writing so much. 

      I could never see myself putting in that many hours to earn $2,400 a year.  Even some of the freelance sites are paying $5 or $10 for an article, or $2 for a blog post.

      1. makemoneyonline profile image60
        makemoneyonlineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        When you write on Helium does it become passive income ?

    2. Shirley Anderson profile image85
      Shirley Andersonposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Look to the print markets for higher (much!) income, Lissie.  They pay hundreds, and some even pay thousands for articles.  If you decide to go that route and want some help, just let me know.  Down side is wait time.

  7. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    I think most of us are pretty well aware that most article writing sites and review sites pay a few dollars here and there.  Hardly enough to make a living, unless you are prepared to work all day and all night as well!

    It's true there are plenty of places to advertise yourself as a freelance. However there is also huge competition and that's driving prices down.  Judging by the writers I've spoken to, most of them are lucky if they earn the same as the average cleaner or kitchen hand.  They stick with it because they like working for themselves, or because they don't have an alternative, or because they just love writing and don't really need the money. 

    The technical manual side of things may be a different kettle of fish, though, since it needs a special expertise - might be a possibility?

    1. smallbizpro profile image60
      smallbizproposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Marissa,

      While that's true about a lot of them, you'll find that Elance is one of the best out there. If you're a strong RELIABLE writer and you know how to work the bidding system, you can easily make $50,000 - $60,000 per year just through Elance alone. Top that off by freelance writing outside and you'll make an excellent income.

      Or start your own writing business - I have two (one owned, more towards the PR side of things, and one co-owned, offering high end copywriting). All of us are looking at 6-figure incomes this year.

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this


        I'm curious as to how you differentiate yourself from the $3/500 words article market?  I believe these are competent, kw focussed articles written on demand, unique content.   I'm not arguing with your figures but I do see a huge issue with competing with English native speakers from places with a much lower cost of living

        1. 0
          pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I can usually tell when the buyer is going for dirt cheap and I don't bid on those projects. I've had buyers email me asking Ill write for less and sometimes I will sometimes I won't--it just depends on whether the project interests me enough.

          I don't begrudge the $3 per article people in India and so forth. Lots of writing work is hideous and all the buyers really want are semi-coherent strings of longtail keywords jumbled up to look like writing. We're in a global market now, I do think it will all sort out. I don't think, for instance, that Indian word factories that bid at Elance can do what I do when I write, and they don't need to either, so why shouldn't they get work too? I don't want to write some of the stuff they do want to write, so it works out in the end.

      2. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Since I made the post you quoted, I have met a few writers who are managing to earn a much higher rate, mainly because they have the specific skills needed.  Inspirepub (Jenny) is a good example.  However I'd like to make a couple of points in return:

        1.  You do have to be a strong writer.  Lissie herself admits she's not a born writer - though having taken it up, she enjoys it.  I don't think she would ever put herself in Jenny's league - and neither am I!

        2.  I've met some other writers who are earning $50,000-$60,000 a year, but when I look closer, their hourly rate is quite poor.  They're making a good income because they're working every hour God sends - many more than if they went out and got a job in the real world.  Their attitude is, writing doesn't feel like work, so they'd rather be spending long hours writing than short hours doing something else.  Once again, that's not going to work for someone who's not driven to write.

        Personally, I have the same problem with writing that I have with any other small business idea - I don't dislike my day job that much, so I'm not driven to escape it - and I don't like working alone, so sitting at home all day on my own is not my idea of heaven.

  8. jhulott profile image61
    jhulottposted 8 years ago

    Hi lizzie,With your writing skills have you thought about writing content and articles for website.  We offer our services to large UK insurance and finance companies but when we have an huge influx we outsource.

    Have a look at Rentacoder or Ifreelance - I have two writers on a freelance basis that I pay at least $1000 a month for content writing. And they have other clients too.

    Specialise in an area or market and you could earn $25- $50 per article

    You pick and chose the jobs to bid for and you take as much or as little as you want.

    We have been living off the Internet now since 2003 and it is hard work. But hugely rewarding as all the money (after taxes of course) goes into your pocket and no one elses

    If you want more info  as I don't want to be promotional in anyway drop me an email.

    Good Luck!


    1. diana1000 profile image60
      diana1000posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Jason,

      I have read your reply about outsourcing people. Please if you have any writing jobs contact me at diana@emilmoz.com

      I am really looking for a break to get to writing regular articles and it seems so is veryman and their dog.

      I would really be grateful

      thanking you kindly and take care of yourself.

  9. 60
    zakuanposted 8 years ago

    Hi Lissie,

    In my opinion, your writing skill plus with IT knowledge are 'strong weapons' you have to 'fight' in this Information Age.

    What i mean is, you are just few steps away from build your own business on the Internet if you act from now.

    I've published a hub titled "Own Your Own Internet Business: The Best Choice in Affiliate Programs"

    If you have time, just have a look at my hub.

    Good Luck!

  10. MrMarmalade profile image84
    MrMarmaladeposted 8 years ago

    Hi Lizzie, Ebay is good fun, and foreknowledge helps a lot.
    1. Do you know much about music? Son 5 has friend making $AUD1,000.00 per week on CD sales. His early life was running Mum and Dad's Music shop. Now work full activity Ebay style, when he wants. no room needed.lots of CDs around in place like Vinnies buy for $2.00 sell min $5 and sometimes up to $100
    Son 5 has now decided to do same, currently he has 4000 CDS and lots of music knowledge.
    I asked him if I could do that/
    Replied scornfully, Dad what do you know about music. Answer was nothing. So there you are
    I sell books of which I have some preknowledge. Know your product. Books take lots of room to store.
    Hope that helps you.

    1. makemoneyonline profile image60
      makemoneyonlineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Mr Marmelade as Lissie remarks also, how can you sell stuff 5$ with benefits with high postage fees ?

      1. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        makemoneyonline wrote:

        On eBay, the buyer generally pays the postage, in addition to what they bid for the item.  As a seller, you have the option to offer free postage, but for small items you'd be mad to do so. 

        So if you sell something for $5, you get $5.

  11. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Jason, thanks will send you an email

    Zakuan: I've tried affilate marketing - I guess I can't write decent copy - or my market is smart enough not to want to pay for the ebook!

    MrM - ROTFL yes knowledge is power but my music knowledge extends to classical, R&R and ballroom dance  -let me guess your sons aren't selling that? One of the things I notice with EBay is that the postage is quite expensive ie like $25 for computer equipment - is that why Marisa and you are both talking about mailing small items - how much does a std paper back cost to mail - in NZ it was about $3 from memory.  Anything more and the buyer is paying too much postage compared to the cost of the item.

    1. MrMarmalade profile image84
      MrMarmaladeposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I have posted a very light three dollar book on billiards to Canada cost $15.00 airmail.
      The person was delighted to pay as the book is out of print.
      If you go into overseas posting they must send money through Paypal. Expensive from your point of view if you accept cheques. Your bank will cricfy you and make you wait a month for change your money

  12. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Lissie, collectors don't seem to care that the postage costs more than the item.  I've never had a complaint.

    I have sold a couple of DVD's on ballet and dance which I bought at a $2 shop and decided they weren't that interesting, so I thought I'd see what I could get.  Turns out both were out of print - unavailable on Amazon - and I got $10 each for them!   Ballroom and dance CD's are not easy to find, so there could well be a market for them. 

    There are two reasons I stick to small stuff - one is that I've found the higher the cost of the item, the smaller the profit margin, as I've said already.  The other is that if you can send an item by Australia Post, you can offer it worldwide. If it exceeds the dimensions or weight for the mail, courier costs are astronomical and no buyer is going to pay them - so you're restricting your audience to just Australia, which is a pretty small pond.

    Editing to add another reason - it keeps the fees down.  The smaller your initial price, the smaller the listing fee.  List stuff for $1 and if it doesn't sell, it's hardly cost you anything.  If you have something large and expensive to sell, you're taking a big risk if your starting price is $1.  If it's something small, you don't risk such a big loss.

  13. embitca profile image80
    embitcaposted 8 years ago

    I think there is great money in Ebay as an affiliate. Over the years I've sold stuff there off and on, but I hate running to the post office. I much prefer getting a cut of other people's sales. You're already an Ebay affiliate, so it would make sense to put up some websites just to promote Ebay. I made over $800 last month as an Ebay affiliate and only about $30 or so of that came from Hubpages. I put up small sites targeting different collectibles and then drive traffic to them by writing about the collectibles for Ezinearticles.

    Lissie, I know what you mean about not wanting to go back to a regular job. I'm two years younger than you and have worked all my life as well. I quit my job two years ago when I had to come home because my brother was ill and after several months not working I just decided I really did not want to go back to work at all and was bound and determined to be self-employed. I've been doing the online thing for a little over a year now and while it is slow going, it has gotten to the point where I can live on what I make.  I think 6-12 months would be a good timeframe to go full-out on it.

    The income builds incrementally the more content you get out there. And you need your own sites. And I think you can do affiliate marketing with out being sales-y. I've actually given bad reviews to products and people still buy them. There's a huge desire for information before plucking out the credit card. Honest reviews go a long way.

    1. Lissie profile image86
      Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      That's a great idea -  I think  I presume that it's timeless content too - is ezinearticles the only article directory worth using?

      I've know of more than 1 convenient pregnancies when the pressure got too much at work - I always thought that was a short term solution buying you a whole lot of long term hassle :-) The sad thing is that's its about the only way to go part-time in IT  and they think they have a skills shortage!

      1. embitca profile image80
        embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        It's the only one worth using for traffic, but the others are useful for backlinks and SEO.  Actually, Buzzle isn't too bad for traffic either. And yes, it's mostly timeless content.

    2. midnighteden profile image60
      midnightedenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'm really sorry to barge in on this thread but I am in a similar position of really trying to get a serious living online. I work fulltime so the additional money is to go towards paying things off etc.

      I was really interested by embitca's comments about pushing ebay as an affiliate - as this is something that I have long wanted to do. However, although I am fairly hmm technical I have not really tried creating a website and nor can I seem to get to grips with ebay within cj in order to create links to specific niche areas.

      I wondered if you embitca, or anyone else, knew of anywhere where there is guidance on this. Not trying to steal an idea, as mine would be a completely different niche but it is more the process than anything else.

      Anyway - sorry again to butt in on a thread!

      Many thanks, M

      1. Mark Knowles profile image62
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        There are any number of these sites available. Basically, what most people do is set up a "dead" site with a bunch of ebay products on it and hope to make money when someone buys something at ebay using their cookie.

        Just do a search on google for ebay affiliate script.

        My thinking is that there are so many of them around now that the only ones making any money either actually have some good content, or were set up ages ago.

        Most of the sales pitches that accompany them are complete bollox. big_smile

      2. embitca profile image80
        embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        The easiest way to do it is to use Wordpress in combination with an Ebay plug-in. It is very easy to set up Ebay sites using Wordpress.  This is one site I set up so you can see how it looks: http://tvshowcalendars.info/  That one is very plain, and totally incomplete because I lost interest in it, but it should give you an idea.  Obviously you can swap in different wordpress themes and have a nice photo at the top for the niche that you are promoting and I would advise more pages and more text *g*

        One free plug-in is phpBay Lite. You can find it here: http://www.wiredstudios.com/phpbay/

        He also makes a pro version so if you decide you like it and can use it easily, you can always upgrade.

        Making the site is the easy part, but just remember that to make money you'll need to promote it.

        1. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          that's the bit that worries me.  I'm not very good at promoting my articles, so I don't expect I'd be any better at promoting my eBay.

          1. embitca profile image80
            embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            A lot of people who are big into promoting Ebay use PPC to drive traffic to their sites, but I am cheap and right now have more time than money, so I use article marketing to drive traffic to both my Ebay sites and my hubpages. And... I wrote a hub about it smile

            http://hubpages.com/hub/Use_Article_Mar … r_Hubpages

            I really do find that article marketing is one of the best ways to promote both your hubs and any other sites you have.  It not only sends traffic directly from article directories, it also will generally help improve your positioning in the search engines. And it only takes a few articles to make a difference.  Most of my Ebay sites I do a maximum of five articles submitted. If one is particularly successful I may do more than that, but usually five is enough to keep up a small stream of traffic and regular sales.

            The trick to promoting Ebay niche sites is that you don't need a lot of traffic to make them pay for themselves, primarily because the traffic you do get is extremely targeted and the Ebay cookie is long-lived. I average between 10-50 uniques per day on each of my sites and usually make at least $10 a day and often quite a bit more depending on how many ACRUs I get and any big ticket auction wins. Some days I top $100.

            1. Lissie profile image86
              Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I've had the same experience using an adsense site to promote my hubs - low traffic but the click thru rate is impressive - I will check out the same thing for E Bay Thanks embitca

  14. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    The one thing that concerns me (and excuse me if I'm sounding my age) is - are you thinking ahead?

    Since coming online, I've met quite a few people who seem to be managing to make a living online.  But the amount they're making is generally far below their earnings potential.  Most say they're happy with it because they're less stressed and doing what they love. 

    You may be making enough to live on now, but are you putting any money aside for your retirement, as you would be if you were in full-time work?  If not, what are your plans?  Do you expect that you'll be able to maintain your online work till your ninety (or whatever)? Don't you have any qualms about how online work will change in the future?

    I've worked all my adult life, but I'm still concerned about whether I'll have enough money to retire on.  How much worse off would I be, had I taken the attitude I should take a much lower salary for the sake of an easy life.

    Right now, I'm very aware that if I accept the kind of money available online, I'll have to work another  7 or 8 years - whereas if I stick at my day job, I can make the same money in 2 years and then put my feet up.  That seems like a no-brainer to me. Maybe I'm lucky that I don't detest my day job.

  15. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    It's OK Marisa - we've done well out of the NZ property boom - and property is still captials gain free in NZ.  One of the reasons that made us take off last year was burying 2 friends who didn't make 60 - one had been lucky and had retired 8 years earlier, the other was still working.  My partners 55 - it suddenly felt a bit too scary really!
    Prices go up and down but we figure if we don't touch our properties within  5 or 7 years we will be able to retire full time -in the meanwhile we just have to earn enough to cover costs - which we are at the moment with my partners job! But I do have some more travelling to do so - I do think I had better contact some cleaning companies tomorrow!

  16. Stacie Naczelnik profile image88
    Stacie Naczelnikposted 8 years ago

    This has been an interesting thread to follow.

    Marisa, I would love to read your ebay hub if you end up posting it.

    I have a full-time job.  My husband goes to school full-time.  My online earnings are really just extra cash, or help to pay the bills so we have leftover money to put into savings.  I'm trying to get a small, steady income from online stuff because I want to stay home when we have children (at least when they are young), but also want to be doing something I like that earns some money.

    All of the talk about retirement and savings is very smart.  I don't think enough people really think about that.

  17. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Lissie, I wasn't directing my comments at you because I'd got the impression from your website that you had some property behind you.

    I'm just noticing a lot of younger people who (in their thirties or forties) who seem to think that "retiring young" just means finding a way to earn enough money to live on right now.  They're either not thinking about what they're going to live on in their sixties, seventies and beyond; or they don't think they'll live that long (which is unrealistic, given that everyone is living longer these days); or they're assuming that they'll be able to maintain their online business indefinitely (which is also unrealistic - when you think how much things have changed in the last ten years, how much will they change in the next thirty?).

    But even people like you and me, who have some assets, are wrestling with a difficulty - we'd have enough to live on if we were content to retire like our parents, hubby in his pipe and slippers and us toddling along to the CWA - but we want to go on having nice holidays and meals out, and that takes money!

    Now I'm working full-time, I'm struggling to find time to get anything written but I'll try to get that eBay hub up!  I also have an article I wrote about the whole issue of fulfilment in the workplace, which is also pretty relevant to this thread.

    1. embitca profile image80
      embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'm guessing maybe your post was directed at me then. I don't consider working online to be "retiring young". It's work. It's just a choice to not work for someone else. That's what I really meant by saying I did not want to go back to work again. I've chosen to spend my energy working for my own benefit rather than someone else's.

      As far as what I'll do for the future and as things change on the internet, I'll do the same thing I've always done -- adapt.  Just like I did when I was laid off from a regular job years ago because they outsourced our jobs to the Philippines. In this day and age, assuming you'll be able to remain in a corporate job until you retire is just as unrealistic as thinking that the internet will resemble what it does today 30 years from now. Capitalism sure isn't going anywhere though. There will always be a way to make money -- both online and offline.

      Let's make no mistake though. I don't consider "enough money to live on now" to be "enough money". It's a decent start, but I think if anyone wants to really make something of their business (whether we are talking about one that is online or one that is bricks & mortar), then they need to stop thinking about "getting by" and start thinking about becoming wealthy. The only true limitations are in one's mind.

  18. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Embitca, sounds like you have the right attitude.  What worries me, as I said, are the people I've met who reach an income that's enough to live on, and they think they've succeeded.

    As far as corporate jobs are concerned, I have only once worked in a job for longer than three years.  Most of my "day jobs" have lasted one to two years.  I don't think there are many people left in the conventional workforce who imagine their job is secure!

    1. embitca profile image80
      embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I know some people like that. I can sort of get it, but for me, more money is always better. I just like money, which is weird because I'm actually not that much of a materialist. I'm debt free and I don't buy much. I do travel a lot though so a lot of my income goes to that.  That's 3/4 the reason I decided I needed to be working for myself, so I can take the work with me and start traveling full-time.

      My "day jobs" have pretty much resembled yours, mostly though because I have done several geographical relocations in my lifetime. The longest amount of time I was in one was 4 years and by the 3rd year I was already deeply hating it. But I do know people who have worked for the same company for years and I always marvel at it. Don't they get bored?

  19. Kenny Wordsmith profile image83
    Kenny Wordsmithposted 8 years ago

    All the best to you, Lissie. It must be peaceful after arriving at a decision. May you master both worlds!

    1. Lissie profile image86
      Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the kind words Kenny - but my partner would die of shock if I became peaceful :-)

  20. Kenny Wordsmith profile image83
    Kenny Wordsmithposted 8 years ago


  21. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Makemoney - yes, Helium does become passive income.   Reason is that the way it works, updating your articles is difficult to do and therefore not worth the trouble.  However, read my Hub on writing for Helium and you'll see that the passive income is barely worth having.  A thousand articles will earn you around a thousand dollars in a year.  Think what you could earn if you spent that time doing almost anything else - including cleaning, like Lissie!

  22. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Yes the mining boom has pushed all the wages up - you can get $25 doing domestic but I dont think that includes leave etc  - and I don't want to clean someone's home - individuals have weird standards where as commercial there will be a written contract as to what will be required.  I think the award is $14 but you'd be a mug to do it for that- the state government is spend $40k on a campaign to attract 50 cleaners and some gardeners for the schools.

  23. Girija Deshpande profile image60
    Girija Deshpandeposted 8 years ago

    To be taken seriously when you work full time on internet is a challange, I agree. Yet, it is not insurmountable. When the quality of your work is unsurpassed, then you will be taken seriously. I have developed contents for websites and have never attended the office, after several years of work, when I had not met the CEO and the Content Development team, work regularly pured in and I was treated with utmost respect and invited for many soical meets. But I managed to meet them only once and I was introduced to the team with the utmost respect and love, believe me!
    Be committed, keep up the timelines, and maintain quality. You will earn everything, money and respect! Good luck!
    Girija Deshpande

  24. caspar profile image83
    casparposted 8 years ago

    This is an interesting thread, with some good advice.

    I'm sorry to hear about the untimely loss of your two friends Lissie.  It's perhaps a reminder to make sure we're enjoying and making the most of life now (while also planning for the future Marisa!)

    Good luck with your new job too, Lissie.  Getting up early and doing something physical should get you revved up each day and you can come back home and work on your internet career.  Should also keep your partner happy until your online earnings take off wink

    1. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      This is one thing I find about working at home.  Without the change of location, I find it extremely hard to get "revved up"!   Maybe I need to find a morning job, too.

      Right now I'm working a 9-5 job.  Having spent most of last year working 3 days a week at a caretaker-type job (with not much to do) plus "internetting" for 2 days, I'm really noticing the difference.  I like the sense of purpose I get from getting up and heading for the office.  I'm loving the constant interaction with other people. And I'm enjoying the dynamics of having to deal with the unexpected and the need to problem solve, instead of predictability.

      Compare that with working from home, where there's no pressure to get up early, you can linger over breakfast and stop to watch Dr Phil at lunchtime.  It may be relaxing but it has no "buzz".  Trouble is, full-time work doesn't leave me much time for writing.

  25. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Well I 've survived  2 days - both days got there early - cannot believe how fast the drive is with no traffic - 7minutes today - normally about 20min - and I didn't think the traffic was horrible normally!
    I hear what you are saying Marisa about problem solving and people interaction I think one of my problems is I can't decide whether I'm an introvert or an extravert!

  26. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Lissie - have you done a Myers Brigg test?  There's a link to a free one on my Hub about introverts. 

    I'm well aware I'm probably in the minority here (or anywhere where writers congregate).  I recall being on a Romance writers' forum and someone asked what people's dream working setup would be.

    Almost everyone nominated a cosy study with a picture window, in a house with wonderful views.  While that sounds idyllic, I know that in practice, if I had to work in that study all day, I'd go stir crazy!  If I ever decide to work full-time on the internet, I think I'd have to find myself a pleasant, reliable internet cafe to work in, because I need the buzz of people around me!

    1. Stacie Naczelnik profile image88
      Stacie Naczelnikposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      While I would spend some days at home, I would also frequent a cafe.  There are so many in Seattle, how could I not?  Plus, I would need the people interaction.  I love my cats, but our conversations can be quite limited.

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Oh you need a dog then my labrador used to be really smart and hold a good conversation especially when I was studying!

  27. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Good link Marisa - Im a INTP which sounds about right - which is probably why  I shouldn't have got out of technical computers and science and into management! 

    I think what you describe as needing to be around people is why tele-commuting hasn't taken off in a huge way - most people do want to be around the office at least part of the week!  I remember a few years one of Wellington's satellite communities, Kapiti, tried to set up a tele-commuting centre where the locals could go and use computers/phones etc  but have others around - but I don't think it lasted

  28. Zsuzsy Bee profile image84
    Zsuzsy Beeposted 8 years ago

    After working for and with the public for thirty++ years, please find me a mountain top that's hard to reach. No neighbors, no constant drop-ins, peace. I'd be more than happy. You can even keep the phone; I don't want that either. One week in a city for a couple of plays or concerts per year. The only thing you can't take away from me are my books and my new found love; a computer(fancy fandangled typewriter) connected to the internet. (and the winning numbers for the lottery)Zsuzsy

  29. jjkirin2007 profile image60
    jjkirin2007posted 8 years ago

    Hi Lizzie. I have seen a lot of really good ideas from fellow hubbers. Out of curiosity, what have you been doing online to make money?

    I'm definitely a newbie to making money online, but I see a lot of potential for future earnings. My first experience online was when I was still in college. To make extra money I would sell used textbooks and books from my friends through Amazon.com. That helped to bring in a little extra cash.

    I Then moved on to ebay and began selling items that I had lying around. Then I moved up to finding items through garage sales and selling on ebay. This works but can be very time consuming. So I try not to do this as much anymore.

    Recently I have been getting into affiliate marketing programs and promoting companies products through my own personal blog that I write, and also by using free ads online. Even though I have only been at it for less than a month I have begun to see some modest results.

    Some other ideas that could generate income for you since you are a good writer would be to write your own blog and to monetize that blog by using google's adsense program. Not sure at this point if you don't already do this. You could also put affiliate links on your blog from amazon and ebay. This is great because the items that show up on your page are content specific.

    Another idea could be joining Yuwie the new social networking site. You wont make a lot of money right off the bat but if you work at it you could generate some income. I wrote a review of the site.

    Anyway, those are just some ideas that come to mind that I have tried. I think the most important thing when trying to make a living online is to stay patient and persistent. I've heard some say that to make it online can take six months or it could take several years. The amount of time can seem discouraging but for me the prospect of making a living online sure beats me working a day job and taking orders from some college dropout tool.

    Stay positive and don't give up your dream.

  30. Internet Marketin profile image59
    Internet Marketinposted 8 years ago

    Hello Lizzie:

    Affiliate Marketing is one of the coolest ways to make money online. The key is that you work once and get paid again and again. You are not just trading your hours for dollars.

    Startup costs can be low or even free: You can get plenty of free blogs to post about the products you are promoting. You can sign up at clickbank.com for free and check out specific products on subjects you know about and promote those on you blog.

    I wrote about a specific affiliate program on my hub. If you'd like to visit here is the link:
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Internet-Market … Affiliates
    I hope this helps a little...

    - Rick

  31. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    JJ - what do you think Lissie has been doing all this time?  She has been blogging, Hubbing and promoting, with limited success - and from what I've seen in my researches, her results are not at all unusual.  The trouble with starting your own website or blog is that readers don't just turn up by themselves - it takes a heck of a lot of work to get noticed. 

    I'm sorry, but I'm always a bit suspicious of people who promote affiliate marketing and invite you to join up using their links.  They're obviously after the referral, so how can I be sure they're recommending something really good, or just desperately trying to boost their own meagre income from the site?

  32. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Thanks JJ - yes I have made money from EBay equivalents before selling stuff lying around home.  Now however I am living in another country and don't have any junk lying around! There was discussion earlier in this thread re selling collectables and I am thinking about doing that.

    I have other websites and blogs - and as Marisa says - getting traffic is the issue! Oh and trying to think of something new to write ever few days on the blogs!  I have tried affiliate marketing but again its all about traffic  - it doesn't happen overnight

    IM - your hub has been taken down - 1 think that nearly made me give up the online thing is that  I kept running into people like you!  There are so many people preying on those who want/need to work online.  Most are obvious and not very good at it like you are - some are very very good at conning people.  There is a fantastic blog  here http://bloggerunleashed.com/  which is one of the few sites I now actually trust on IM - warning - Vic doesn't mince his words if you know what I mean! He is well worth reading though for someone who actually has a track record - not just 6 months in the industry!

  33. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago


    I did write the Hub about selling on eBay, here it is:


    The difficulty in Mozambique may be sourcing items to sell.  I would suggest focussing on local crafts and selling worldwide - what is commonplace in Mozambique could be very desirable elsewhere.  Choose items that are easy to mail, rather than the larger pieces, and remember there may be customs restrictions in some countries on importing wooden pieces. 

    As for making a living by writing on the internet - learn your lesson from Lissie's experience, and mine.  If you love writing - and therefore don't count it as work - then it can work, because any money you make is a bonus.  However, don't expect it to make your fortune.

    I suggest you try emailing this Hubber:


    who works as a full-time freelancer.  She may be able to give you some tips.  She also has some good Hubs on working from home.

    BTW I lived in Swaziland for 3 years.  Never made it to Mozambique due to border unrest - but saw plenty of seagulls from there!

  34. retireyoung profile image60
    retireyoungposted 8 years ago

    I started working on the internet PT 3 years ago.  I still don't earn as much as I would like, but I can now live comfortably enough without having to do the day job.  It is a long battle.  Doing it totally for the money is really hard.  When I started I just enjoyed it, getting feedback from people and building traffic.  It is also a battle trying to convince the people around you that it is actually work.  Just because you enjoy it and can work from home it shouldn't be different from a regular job.  Starting out is definitely the most difficult, but it is also a good thing.  If it was too easy to make money online everybody would be doing it.  It is easy, but most people give up in the beginning.  I am yet to see someone who did the hard work fail in an online venture.

  35. Affiliate Paradis profile image59
    Affiliate Paradisposted 8 years ago

    I've been where you are now.  I used to be a school bus driver before I got my own business going back in 1981, pre-computer days.  When I finally did get into computer businesses, a lot of my friends were all singing the same tune about how I needed to get a real job rather than continue to "work" at a hobby.

    I put up with that for a few years, but now they are singing a different tune, wanting me to let them in on what I'm doing, because their "jobs" aren't doing so hot anymore.  My best friend out in California actually said that he didn't know if his driving job (school bus) was going to last much longer, and it wasn't paying very well considering how expensive things are out there.

    So I'll break down and tell them what is working for me one of these days.  They are now taking what I do seriously, because their standard jobs are letting them down.

    If you would like to get into something that could mean you making a lot more than $100 a month, go over to my hub page:


    I have quite a few different things in there, everything from affiliate programs to stock trading.  You are welcome to look around anytime, and pick out something new to do.  The nice thing about all the things I am doing is, none of them require full-time committment.  I can get all I need to done in about 2 - 4 hours depending on how many emails I get.  Check it out, you won't be sorry.

  36. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Thanks retireyoung - yes  I think I make this a part-time endevour and find a day job to pay for the next trip a few days a week.  One of problems of course is not just covering costs, my partners job does that easily, but saving for the next trip which is hopefully Europe - which is going to cost a fortune!
    Affiliate Paradis - I think they key thing you say in your profile that you started internet marketing in the 90's - that's important.  Most internet marketing products are sold to other wannabe IM's - being in early has made you and lot of others a lot of money.  Well done on your foresight - but unfortunately I can't turn back time - and I do think the whole IM is now so flooded with affiliates there is little chance of making real cash in it for someone starting now.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, that's my observation too.   I've experienced the effect myself, and so has anyone else who's ever written a Hub about "making money online".  That Hub gets more traffic than any of my other Hubs! 

      It's a bit like pyramid selling - eventually the supply of naive newbies has to dry up.

      1. Eric Graudins profile image59
        Eric Graudinsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Unfortunately that's not going to happen any time soon.

        With the current world fuel situation, more and more people are going to be looking for ways to cut down their travel, and will explore moneymaking at home.

        Leading to more and more gullible victims for the scammers.

        I see lots of intelligent people who have been totally ripped off by following wrong advice regarding many aspects of their online activities.
        I'm writing an ebook aimed at people BEFORE they set themselves up on the internet, which givces them the facts, and warns and informs them of all the pitfalls and traps they will encounter.

        Many of you on this thread clearly have had experience with all sorts of make money online schemes.

        It could be a good project for someone to write a warts and all book on that topic.

  37. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    For any of those who are interested in  how the story has, well not ended, but taken a new twist read about my new/old career here!
    http://www.continuingadventures.com/200 … to-geology

  38. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Lissie, I hate to say "I told you so" - but I will anyway!  smile

    It's all too easy to believe the myths about employers not wanting people who are too old / the wrong sex / not willing to do the hours  etc etc etc.   So we don't even bother to look.  But that's a defeatist attitude, IMO.  You've just proved why it always pays to be optimistic!

  39. CosmicRay profile image60
    CosmicRayposted 8 years ago

    It's amazing the way life twists and turns Lissie.  I've been reading through the posts and it's an interesting illustration of the pitfalls of the online life.  I've been at it on the quiet for a couple of months and so far I have amassed the fortune of $42!!!!   

    I've just been disentangling myself from 27 years as a teacher in the UK and trying to find a way of keeping my two children secure and comfortable without going back to the crazy expectations of UK teaching.  I've got some IT skill and experience from looking after the school's IT facilities for years and I decided that I needed to put my positives to work instead of sinking deeper into the mess that life had become.

    So I've just burned my bridges and I've got about a month to start earning before I have to go out and get a regular job again.  Sounds like a recipe for disaster doesn't it?  Never mind, I've got a very firm ambition to create the lifestyle I want and it doesn't really involve the material trappings, that's not how I measure wealth.  Instead I want to earn a bit more than I did as a teacher, have enough spare cash to take my kids travelling to some of the more exciting wild places before they (kids and wild places) disappear.  I love climbing and mountains and photography so wish me luck and perseverance. 

    All the best to you in your new job - always found rocky bits fascinating - and thanks to all the commentators on your post.  Some really good clear thinking being revealed.  Good advice is always welcome.Take care Lissie.   smile

  40. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Thanks for your kind words Cosmic - 27 years teaching is a long haul - I admire you! If you have been supporting the school's IT infrastructure then you can probably get a job on a helpdesk to get your foot in the door towards network support.  Another option you might want to look at is being an IT trainer - though this won't pay as well in general - though is a more a people orientated job.  Look for organisations such as uni's or Not for PRofit's they are more likely to give you a break than the mainstream corporates.  Try to get to the company actually recruiting rather than being fobbed by the recruitment companies who have no idea what the jobs they are actually employer are about so therefore don't understand how your skills will transfer!

  41. 0
    tagtopicsposted 8 years ago

    After reading about all of your travelling experience, I can't help but think that you must have a huge amount of travel related content stored in your head!

    Article writing seems to be a popular way to earn money online at the moment - everyone wants content, you have loads of it in your memory, your experiences, your likes and dislikes.

    There are a lot of options you could consider, the most likely ones are:

    write articles to post on directories which will most likely involve you linking these articles back to another website where you can actually earn some cash.

    sell your content, possibly as PLR (private label rights) articles, to other website owners to use for their content based website.

    write articles for cash by combining the two options above. There are websites out there who will pay you to create content for them.

    set up your own travel website where you could find a specific niche (holidays for retired travellers, visiting New Zealand etc.) and make money from advertising and affiliate sales from holiday companies.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You'll find those options listed on almost any site that promises to teach you how to make money online.  The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Lissie has tried all of them.  The truth is, it's not that simple!

  42. caspar profile image83
    casparposted 8 years ago

    That's a really useful suggestion, embitca.  You've got me thinking now.  I've only just started toying with Wordpress blogs, and the ebay script you mentioned looks very interesting...just need to think of a good topic.  smile

  43. midnighteden profile image60
    midnightedenposted 8 years ago

    Thanks embitca for all the really useful advice, that is very helpful. I will be coming back to have a look in more detail at some of your other hubs smile

    One more quick question - I just wondered if the ebay plugin only works with Wordpress if you host wordpress yourself - is that right?

    1. Lissie profile image86
      Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Almost certainly yes midnighteden.  Its not that hard to do this is how to do it with an adsense theme - I am off to check out the ebay plugin - but once you have the principal its easy to rinse and repeat as they say! 
      Just make sure you get a host which allows you to have multiple websites for no extra cost -that was my original mistake!

    2. embitca profile image80
      embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Glad I could help!

      And yes, you need to have your own hosting in order to use most Wordpress plugins, including the Ebay ones.

  44. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Wow this thread is amazing, even if I do say so myself :-o So much information guys! Tagtopics - yes travel is where I started and my Italy and Waitangi hubs do quite well - though the India one has the most traffic and very little sales - probably says something about the spending power of people going to India rather than Italy or NZ! My main travel site for the over-30's is referenced in my profile.

    As Marisa says I think the promotion is the key and its a right pain in the proverbial especially when u have a number of sites/hubs!

    I was cynical about the article industry but I did an experiment and used jetsubmitter to  submit a bunch of articles about one of my hubs - I didn't keep up the subscription to jetsubmitter because basically I thought it wasn't working -but after a while I started getting google alerts telling me that the articles were out there.  And now when I go back to the hub its the only 1 I have that has any PR! It doesnt get much traffic or make any money but it does have PR - maybe it will make money in the future?

    Anyway i will be having another more serious look at article marketing thanks embitica for the hub

  45. ysdata profile image58
    ysdataposted 8 years ago

    I have my own hosted wordpress blog, but I'm not using ebay I use linkshare, adsense and amazon.  I think content is the key.  I select products based on my topics -- for example I just published "Show your Employees Some Appreciation"  I talk about a program that we use at my company with links to where to get the products.

  46. 0
    tagtopicsposted 8 years ago

    Unless I've missed it, there doesn't seem to be any reference to clickbank.com. I've just had a look and there are 88 products in the travel category Lissie - and the return for a sale is usually pretty good (depending on the affiliate % and the products cost) compared to making a few cents at a time on adsense.

    Of course you don't have to choose between them, have them both. They're all downloadable products so you'll have to decide if they're suitable for your site but it's worth a look.

    The second clickbank option is to actually produce your own information product, put it into the marketplace and get clickbank affiliates to sell it for you. This would (hopefully) give you some sales and traffic. This might be a good option if your not to sure about the best ways to promomte a site or product - there are 10,000 affiliates doing that for you.

  47. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Hi Deanna, and welcome. One little thing - when you quote someone else's post, it's best not to include the whole thing.  You'll find that you can go in and delete everything except the sentence or paragraph you're commenting on.  Otherwise, the thread gets a bit unwieldy.

  48. Lissie profile image86
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Thanks Deanna - unfortunately I know what my passion is travel, ballroom dancing  and relaxing - unfortunately the first 2 costs lots and none of them make me any real money! So I am back to doing something which hopefully doing something not too bad, but definitely not a passion - the good thing is that now I can afford at least 1 more dance class a week - that may sound weird to you but Marisa will understand! 

    The personal services stuff I have looked into - but as I am only in my current location for a year or so I don't want to go to the trouble of building up a cilentale just to leave when it starts getting easy!

    1. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I do.  My passion is also dance, and for an all-too-brief period I was able to make part of my income from it.  The good thing is it gave me time to realise that making a living doing what you love doesn't always work as well as they say it does. 

      I remember reading about a man who loved photography.  He opened his own studio and was quite successful, but after a few years he gave it up and went into some other line of business.  His reason was that he'd lost the pure joy of photography - by making it his job, he had surrounded it with deadlines, stress and all the other constraints of having a business, and spoilt the thing that gave him most pleasure.  So he went back to making it his hobby, and rediscovered his enjoyment. 

      I used to regret that I wasn't able to pursue a dancing career straight out of school, but having a taste of it later in life has made me think twice.  Would dancing full-time have turned my passion into a chore?  Maybe I'm better off being able to enjoy it without complications or obligations!

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Yes I think it might have - I have never seriously considered being a professional dancer- I didn't start learning until I was 35! But I have considered seriously being a tour guide fortunately I realised that the very reason I don't take tours: freedom, abiity to do nothing all day, skip the must sees or spend a week somewhere - were all the reasons I'd hate running a tour! I couldnt' stand dealing with people who couldn't handle not getting vegetarian options in argentina or wanting to know if the bottled water is safe in India - duh what do you think the locals drink! I would have been an awful tour guide and, more importantly I would have HATED IT and I might have ended up hating travelling!
        The Oz version of  " So you think you can dance" started last night and my heart went out to the 21? yr old ex- Australian ballet school girl who was tears from not making it thru as she tried to explain that she thought life might be more important than dancing - she was right - but its not the answer to give at an audition! She's obviously really struggled with all her friends going off to companies and something happened, and I doubt that it was her dancing ability, to stop her doing the same - it really is a tough call to follow some passions!

    2. makemoneyonline profile image60
      makemoneyonlineposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You have the same problem as me and 80% of people: you don't know how to sell and exploit your talents (because it seems you have definitely some). I've always been a "technician" for all my life and I now understand that it was a mistake, I should  have learned how to sell myself rather. Hope not too late though as I am now in the wake of my conciousness about that smile

      1. Lissie profile image86
        Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Not quite right - I understand what I have to do to sell my talents - but I don't feel comfortable doing it - I don't thinking selling is particularly hard skill to acquire, there's nothing difficult about it - its more a personality trait and I personally hate being sold to so I don't like selling myself.   

        What I have developed over the last few months are my writing skills and my enjoyment in writing so at the moment  I am content to keep practicing these and seeing what options those give me - the alternative to heavy duty selling is developing your talent and portfolio and then following up the leads those present - which I have the luxury of doing now I have part-time income coming in!

  49. 60
    famelogposted 8 years ago

    Hi Lizzy,

    I have taken a glimpse over the suggestions made to you. You are very lucky that so many friends are present to help you with their valuable suggestions. You have experience in Travel Industry and Ebay too. Why don't you combine all your experience to earn online. It doesn't need  to expend money. You may consider the following points for a better start:

    1. Decide first that you want to start with a decent niche. It may be Traveling, ..................

    2. Join Blogger.com or Worpress.com and start a blog.

    3. Start to write posts....It may include your traveling experience, tips to travel, information about certain traveling places, travel insurance etc.

    4. Joint Google Adsense to put ads on your blog. (When you will receive traffic then you will see the result.)

    5. Start to promote your blog for high traffic. There is so much to tell you over this. But I can't write here all these things in shorts. You may contact me at blogging4fame@yahoo.com or switch to my blog www.FameFire.Com to have suggestions over making money online and search engine optimization.

    6. Place your ebay links and sell items related to your niche.

    7. When you have sufficient data on your blog join Payperpost.com. The lowest payout is $5 per article. If you can write a whole paragraph asking others for suggestions then I am dam sure you can write wonderful article. Now it will depends on you how much you make from payperpost.com.

    8. You have joined to Hubpages, now when you write an article for your blog, let it stay then for a week. Then after make some changes to it or I should say make it some short and post it on Hubpages. You may also consider the same service at AssociatedContent.Com.

    9. Now its time to join Affiliate Programs. Search over the net and join right affiliate program related to travel. Make a full review and start marketing.

    10. Don't give up writing habit.

    Feel free to contact me at blogging4fame@yahoo.com


    1. Lissie profile image86
      Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      actually its lissie

      Well you obviously didn't read the thread in much detail -and I am avoiding some writing so here goes..

      Which would be a terrible niche - because it's far too big - my actual main niche is independent travelling for the over-30's as in http://www.midlifetravel.com

      My self-hosted WordPress personal blog http://continuingadventures.com started off on blogger, but as soon as I started to moneterise it I realised I'd loose all PR I got on either of these platforms if I decided to go self-hosted- so did sooner rather than later. I don't think free wordpress hosting even allows you to run ebay or adsense - but I might be wrong.  Anyway more on PR soon ....

      Actually continuingadventures is just a personal diary and doens't make me anything.  I have got more focussed blogs in specific niches - gee I never thought to write any posts though (wishes to insert Mark's sarcastic smilie here!) I

      What do you define as a result? $7.84 since October  on this particular blog.  If you need the detail here is a hub I wrote on the subject http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-run-Goog … our-blog_3

      How to get high traffic:
      write about big tits
      write about US celebrities - preferably Paris Hilton
      write about how to make money on the internet
      Failing those - write well and what you know
      Understand enough SEO to have well-paying keywords in your page title, bold and sub-headings.
      Get backlinks preferably form do-follow blogs
      Get backlinks from relevant forums
      Get backlinks from sites google likes such as hubpages and squidoo.. 
      Have patience- its going to take a couple of years to build up

      now to be fair this is one that was mentioned above and I will be persuing this one. I do already use Amazon

      How much have I made - $55.  Almost all the pay outs are $5, if you have no PR.  Very few are available  and often it went days before  I saw anything at all  I could take - and some I was just unprepared to take - there are only so many bad credit loans blogs you can have! My blog has no PR because in Oct google reduced the PR of all blogs selling links which is what you are doing on PPP - they don't exactly care if my 10 daily visitors read the post or not.  Though it does annoy my 10 visitors too - so I am deleting them as soon as I get my last payout from them.  No one should enrol with PPP aka IZEA without realising the SEO implications - maybe I'll write a hub on it?

      and get done for duplicate content by Hubpages for certain probably AA as well ? No thanks

      I am yet to find much worth promoting but if anyone is interested in RVing in North America this one is quite good: http://www.midlifetravel.com/blog/2007/ … ey-nomads/

      I agree with that !

      hmm first rule of SEO - make sure you post the right link - ROTFL And why are  fame and fire got to do with your internet marketing niche keywords?
      Thank you that was fun :-)
      Sorry I try to avoid major sarcasm, at least when I am signing it - but Marisa is right - its the implication that its all simple and straightforward and that you are an expert on it that annoys.  One of the hardest things about making money on the internet is working out what is good info and what is just re-gurgitated rubbish written by someone who only knows 1 months more info than you, or not as the case may be.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image62
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        now to be fair this is one that was mentioned above and I will be persuing this one. I do already use Amazon

        How much have I made - $55.  Almost all the pay outs are $5, if you have no PR.  Very few are available  and often it went days before  I saw anything at all  I could take - and some I was just unprepared to take - there are only so many bad credit loans blogs you can have! My blog has no PR because in Oct google reduced the PR of all blogs selling links which is what you are doing on PPP - they don't exactly care if my 10 daily visitors read the post or not.  Though it does annoy my 10 visitors too - so I am deleting them as soon as I get my last payout from them.  No one should enrol with PPP aka IZEA without realising the SEO implications - maybe I'll write a hub on it?

        and get done for duplicate content by Hubpages for certain probably AA as well ? No thanks

        I am yet to find much worth promoting but if anyone is interested in RVing in North America this one is quite good: http://www.midlifetravel.com/blog/2007/ … ey-nomads/

        I agree with that !

        hmm first rule of SEO - make sure you post the right link - ROTFL And why are  fame and fire got to do with your internet marketing niche keywords?
        Thank you that was fun :-)
        Sorry I try to avoid major sarcasm, at least when I am signing it - but Marisa is right - its the implication that its all simple and straightforward and that you are an expert on it that annoys.  One of the hardest things about making money on the internet is working out what is good info and what is just re-gurgitated rubbish written by someone who only knows 1 months more info than you, or not as the case may be.
        You go girl ! big_smile

  50. Marisa Wright profile image93
    Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

    Famefire, if you'd also visited Lissie's profile page, you'd have discovered that she's already done all that!    Unfortunately, there are so many people like yourself out there, offering this advice and implying that it will make money - Lissie's experience suggests otherwise!