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Prohibited sites based on crtieria not a master list

  1. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    This is getting ridiculous, well, it has always been ridiculous.

    What is so damn hard about making a list of sites you consider prohibited?


    What is so damn hard about making a list of sites you consider prohibited?


    What is so damn hard about making a list of sites you consider prohibited?


    What is so damn hard about making a list of sites you consider prohibited?

    What is so damn hard about making a list of sites you consider prohibited?

    Why do I submit a hub, wait 2-3 days for republishing, losing position no doubt - get it republished after removing some irrelevant nonsense.

    Only , to have it get unpublished immediately afterwards w/o any editing!

    What the hell is a prohibited site!

    Usually when things are prohibited - there is a list that both parties can look at? Its common  sense.

    This place is a trainwreck. As much as I think most regulations are foolish and ineffective Ive still been jumping through your hoops making the hubs made for this format fit the defined rules.

    cached link

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s … google.com

    Where is the prohibited link? EXACTLY, where!

    i link to

    adwords keyword tool
    seo quake
    tka (aff) - if you prohibited these ill be sure to send notice of that to TKA for you  and you have to be a member to aff it, so its expert and real
    the challenge (30 day challenge) but I broke that one the first time you unpublished it and the warning went away (so 30dc is prohibited? as its not even aff/rev product?)(shows in cache)
    (MNF link shows in cache but was removed already when first accepted for republish)
    hubsacademy.com (which i made because of my love of this site (silly me) which has no cpc ads)
    and the prohubber toolbar I made which is free and has all quick links to hubpages and support sites


    plus a handful of related hub links

    WHICH IS THE PROHIBITED LINK? START A LIST ALREADY


    The hub is a good faith effort on my part not some spammy respin
    Your metrics suggest agreement

    Word Count
    2440
    ?
    Revenue Potential
    $$$
    ?
    Incoming Links
    ∗∗∗∗
    ?
    View Duration
    ∗∗∗∗∗
    ?
    First Published
    08/12/10

    What is so hard about making a prohibited link list or simply breaking the vague prohibited link w/o unpublishing.

    Anything but this ridiculous guessing game.

    Total Fail

  2. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    I cant even believe a website is able to make me this furious. In real life, my patience is oft considered one of my few virtues.

    How do you even have time to be working on wallpaper features like comment accolades? Your resources are not being properly focused.

    1. Mutiny92 profile image86
      Mutiny92posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      SF, I think you have a clickbank link to Keyword Elite

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes it does, and if I remember correctly that is now prohibited.

        I do not understand, though, why a list cannot be provided and why a particular link cannot be referenced in the notice given.  If someone or some software can find it it can be copied into the notice.

        1. sunforged profile image65
          sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes missed that in my list - but the link does not exist in the hub - the cache is old

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Damn.  Though we had found your problem - such things are really easy to gloss over when checking your own stuff, or at least it is for me.

            I hope you can decipher the problem - that particular hub was one I have bookmarked as very useful.  Along with several more of your hubs - your work was instrumental in getting me going here and I've repeatedly pointed noobs to your hubs.

          2. Mutiny92 profile image86
            Mutiny92posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I too thought  this was an excellent hub.  I referenced it quite a bit!

            I am befuddled on what "poor structure" violations are worthy of this to be unpublished...

            I am interested to see what rule is being cited.

    2. EmpressFelicity profile image83
      EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I was asking myself the very same question. 

      More and more, this site reminds me of being at junior school and receiving gold stars from the teacher for being good in trivial ways.

      At the age of 46, I kind of feel I've got beyond that now.

  3. englightenedsoul profile image62
    englightenedsoulposted 5 years ago

    It is certainly ridiculous.  It really is.  My hub was on Godaddy $1 promo code was also unpublished for the same reason.  But that hub had only two affiliate links - One to godaddy site and other to Hostgator and I guess both are respectable company.

    Also, there are two more warnings on my hub which irks me a lot.

    WARNING: This Hub is on a restricted topic and contains affiliate links
    CONTENT WARNING: This Hub appears to be about web hosting


    When I wrote that hub, it was not a restricted topic, so I guess my hub should have been allowed to remain published.

    Anyways, I am hardly bothered.  I plan to publish all my unpublished hubs on Xobba.

  4. Jason Menayan profile image60
    Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago

    It looks like you've already fixed that Hub and submitted it for publication with the right links removed, so I suppose you figured it out.

    But for others who might be reading, this is how it works:

    1. If you had any Hubs that went aground of our affiliate rules, you were sent an email letting you know exactly which Hubs needed some work. The Hubs were not unpublished, but there was a warning that you had about 2 weeks to fix those Hubs.

    2. Visiting the Hub, you would see a notification along the lines of "WARNING: This Hub is at risk of being unpublished for linking to prohibited sites" at the top of your Hub.

    3. Clicking on that notification would tell you exactly which links needed to be removed in order to bring the Hub into compliance with the rules.

    Anyone affected could have done this between the time of getting the email a couple of weeks ago and yesterday, fixed the Hub, and not have any risk of getting the Hub unpublished.

    Going forward, if you are writing a new Hub and use a link that is prohibited, you will get a notification and be unable to publish the Hub without taking out any link that's prohibited.

    I'll add this to the sticky thread.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well that's great, it still doesn't answer the Question!

      Once more the warning says... and I quote!

      'Affiliate or promotional links in subject areas containing a high proportion of low quality or promotional content (for example, forex, acai berry, MLM, weight loss, etc'

      'Subject Areas' DO YOU THINK YOU COULD BE MORE VAGUE!

      Subject Areas of low quality content.

      So what Hubpages is saying is that because a certain subject area 'generally' attracts low quality hubs, all hubs with affiliate links in these subject area are banned.

      Even if the hub itself is high quality

      and.....

      If the affiliate product itself is high quality

      I have to say this is galactically stupid!

      I excel at micro niche marketing and keyword/competition research.

      My writing has earned me a following, in my comments I have had numerous people asking me to teach them more, or write more hubs on the topic.

      The tool pivotal to my success at micro niche marketing is Market Samurai, hardly a piece of junk as it was developed by Ed Dale, probably the most reputable internet marketer on the planet.

      But according to Hubpages not only my hubpage is low quality, the product Market Samurai a piece of spam, what are you going to tell me next Ed Dale is a criminal.

      To receive a spam bot email telling me that I should look at these high quality hubs as an example, suggesting my hub is cow chud is outright insulting and ignorant.

      Especially when no real life person from hubpages has actually read the hubpages that the site automatically pulled.

      In conclusion....

      I would hardly be of the opinion that a 1500+ word hub which by virtue of comments and traffic plainly show that the Hub I have published is far from 'Low Quality'.

      It vexes me how Hubpages can create a 'blanket' rule on a range of topics regardless of the quality of each individual hubpage.

      And here is when you tell me that Hubpages doesn't have the resources to check every hub for minimum level of quality.

      My argument, 'Hubpages doesn't have to!'

      If the hubber has a chest full of accolades, simple common sense or in miilitary speak CDF, the solution is simple.

      If you have a combination of high scoring hubs, high hub score and extensive accolades, leave the hubber the bloody hell alone!

      It doesn't make sense that Hubpages will allow someone to publish 150 200 word hubs in three months, but is a seasoned blogger writes a hub which is extremely useful to fellow hubbers as proven by comments and traffic, the hub is full of extremely useful info, is fun and entertaining to read and to top it off has an extremely valuable and highly relevant affiliate product to hubbers, it gets temporarily pulled with the threat of being un-published!

      Now I ask my fellow hubbers, are the more seasoned hubbers being penalized for doing the right thing! I would definitely think so!

      You only have to read these three hubs

      http://hubpages.com/hub/becoming-succes … -marketing

      http://hubpages.com/hub/money_making_affiliate_products

      http://hubpages.com/hub/search-engine-o … r-hubpages

      Really do you honestly think these hubs are low quality or at least of a lesser quality than the tsunami of spam that veteran hubbers have to wade through while hubbhopping?

      What's the use of me hubhopping when hubpages is going to shaft me if I write about micro niche marketing, encouraging a relationship with your reader, and focus on continuous improvement in respect to quality.

      Hubpages is cutting the head off the goose that lays the golden egg, and then still expects the goose to keep laying!

      I strongly suggest that hubpages makes strict rules for 'new hubbers' and for hubbers that have been around the block a few times and have invested a great deal of time, sweat and late nights, give them a few well earned priveliges.

      Its simply unfair to come up with a hair brained half baked blanket solution without any gauge of its affects, taking the quick easy route always leads to you coming undone.

      I expect people will just shift from writing crappy 200 word hubs on internet marketing, to writing crappy 200 word hubs on another topic which isn't on the banned list but is the next most lucrative.

      Then hubpages will ban more topics alienating more veteran hubbers.

      This is the real problem.

      For the hubbers that have been on here for three or four years, they are now wondering, ok if I write about this topic and have an affiliate link, is the topic going to be banned tomorrow or next week?

      Of course Hubpages won't answer this question because it reserved the right to keep its options open.

      The really good hubbers here have no solid foundation any more, we don't know where we stand tomorrow or next week let alone next year.

      The veteran hubbers of this site are the driving future of this platform, yet they are being alienated.

      A sad day!

      1. myi4u profile image61
        myi4uposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's all good when things get published without problems. Just two days ago, I have a hub pulled down. First inapproriate content, republished and now substandard. As you said, "DO YOU THINK YOU COULD BE MORE VAGUE"??!!!

        The staffs read our hubs and I imagine that there's a place for them to flag our hub so that we can amend it. But since they read our hubs, is it that difficult to just say what's with the hub that they didn't like instead of using a term that is so vague that I don't even know what is wrong with my hub!

        I am not saying my hubs are good. But I have seen worse and they still get published; poor formatting, worst grammar than mine and so on so forth.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image92
      Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ...which, as I pointed out, isn't much use if you need clarification, because it will take team@ 3 weeks to reply to your email.



      Oh, really?  The message I got told me what kind of links were prohibited - it didn't tell me which specific links were the problem. As it turned out, it was a mistake and they had misclassified my own website as a prohibited site.  Was I supposed to read their minds?  How does Sunforged know they haven't made the same mistake with his?

  5. thisisoli profile image64
    thisisoliposted 5 years ago

    I believe they consider web hosting to be a 'low quality affiliate link'.

    1. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Sure - but no hosting links are within - I outlined the links

  6. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    NO JASON - that is not the problem.

    Clickbank is on the prohibited list - one of the few mentioned.

    I removed it and the hub was republished. Then removed AGAIN! with a new warning.

    As I mentioned the links visible in the cache are not the links that triggered a second removal.

    Ill be back with a screenshot - Ive read and dug through all the rules, posts and blogs, my disagreements aside at least I know that Hosting etc are listed in prohibited areas...i can deal or move things.

    But when Im pulling teeth here trying to unravel what link is the problem its just silly.

    Right? It takes 3 seconds to remove a link or decide to move the content - but can take an hour to dig through one by one deciding which is the link!

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have a simple answer, they don't care!

      1. 0
        Multimanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I believe that appears to be the problem, not only that but they don't care that in the process they will end up losing gogole points, and seasoned writers.

  7. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/438/3160185962.png

    SEE!

    unpublished -
    cleared
    unpublished

  8. Michael Willis profile image78
    Michael Willisposted 5 years ago

    Why can't there be a place on the My Account page like the "Broken Links" area that says Prohibited Links?

    This place could list any prohibited links and the hub affected to allow easy removal. This could also be used to list overly-promotional links.

  9. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    Easier to see:

    http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/438/7135098555.png

    1. Jason Menayan profile image60
      Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I see. Looking at your Hubtivity, it's not the affiliate links at all (that was cleared). It was moderated for "poorly structured" (I would check the spelling/grammar) and unrelated links (like the ones you have for ballet shoes, North American animals, etc.).

      You could create a tag-specific, related RSS if want to have an RSS at the bottom.

      1. sunforged profile image65
        sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You mean like the one for 60dc that was previously cleared as being acceptable as a community project?

        "was moderated for "poorly structured" (I would check the spelling/grammar"

        If that is the case, I'll check. I will take it as an insult and discontinue my participation, but I will make sure to bring it into standards first.

        I would like to see staff credentials for such a call(not that It would change anything of course, but I doubt your new team of moderators are qualified editors - there are many possible standards at which online content could be held to, which is the new rule structure, should I brush up on APA , MLA, Chicago , Harvard , Turabian , Vancouver/ICJME , etc)and how many mistakes it must take for a 2200 word hub to be deemed unacceptable and unreadable for spelling/grammar mistakes?


        I want it published quick so i will jump through those hoops, but I am not daft for my confusion.

        How many have to be utterly confused and turned off by moderation practices before it is realized that the system is flawed.

        1. Jason Menayan profile image60
          Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sunforged,

          Those are deeper moderation-related questions. I hate to have to refer you to a moderator, but that's what I have to do...since I'm not a moderator.

          1. sunforged profile image65
            sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I understand that, Jason, I do appreciate that you were able to make some observations.

            I just needed to vent, I shouldnt have to feel like I need to vent. This is for either fun or money. I was successful in both.

            I dont appreciate being made to feel like a jackass because I cant translate these moderations. Im not, Im actually rather savvy at this online stuff.

            My main point was to show one example of why a "prohibited link list" should be something your team should be creating and making available to allay frustrations.

            Im not evil because I use affiliate links. Hosting, IM products etc.. I have all these things and promoted the ones that I not only use but am capable of showing others how to use. Now, Im painted with the same brush as the spammers that apparently ruined such topics for me.

            Its not fun.

            1. Jason Menayan profile image60
              Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, the prohibited affiliate link will never be provided; we don't want that exploited by bad affiliate marketers.

              But, as I said before, you didn't need a list to avoid having a Hub unpublished. And, it will be impossible to publish a Hub with such a link going forward.

          2. lakeerieartists profile image78
            lakeerieartistsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Without blaming you Jason, because as you say, you are not a moderator, this is exactly the kind of situation that causes frustration.  Here you are faced with this situation, yet unfortunately, you cannot provide an answer to this very appropriate question on Sunforged's part.

            We all know that you all have hired new moderators who may or may not have been brought up to speed on what is considered appropriate on a hub.  There should be a place where hubbers can ask these kind of questions regarding moderated hubs, and emails, and get an answer either here in the forums or elsewhere, without waiting a long time, from a moderator who knows what is going on.

            This is kind of like waiting on hold for 45 minutes then getting transferred to the person you should be speaking to, only to be cut off, and having to do it all over again.

            1. Jason Menayan profile image60
              Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I was talking about the staff credentials that sunforged wanted. I can't provide that.

              I believe the email and notification at the top of the Hub should have all the necessary information with which to approach rectifying the Hub.

            2. dablufox profile image60
              dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Amen lakeerie!

  10. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    As I said, Ive been jumping about for the rules that are explained.

    2 or 3 times Ive been told that moderations were a mistake.

    At least make some sort of effort to create a list that can be checked by mods and writers alike

    1. pauldeeds profile image
      60
      pauldeedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If you click on the automated warning on a Hub, the ones in orange that start with "WARNING:", a list of problematic links is provided (and has been for several weeks).

      If those warnings go away, it means you've corrected that particular problem.   However, if your Hub was unpublished, it will have a message in red that indicates the reason it why it was unpublished.  Those can only be removed by a moderator after you submit the Hub for publication.

      When you submit a Hub for publication, it will be manually checked for ALL violations.  When the original problem was a mechanical violation, such as a prohibited link (which are typically enforced automatically), it's not uncommon for the original problem to have been corrected, but for there to be other issues with the Hub.  You can avoid that sort of scrutiny by correcting the mechanical problems before your Hub becomes unpublished (we emailed you a list a couple of weeks ago).

      1. lrohner profile image85
        lrohnerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And you don't think it would be beneficial that if a hub is caught up with "mechanical errors," it is sent directly to a moderator for a FULL review before asking the hubber to make changes? Seems to me it wouldn't cost your staff more time, and it would certainly save the hubbers a lot of time and aggravation.

        1. pauldeeds profile image
          60
          pauldeedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          While, I agree that would be nice, it would take our current 8 person moderation team more than 3 months to manually check the 5% or so of Hubs that contain mechanical violations, and that's assuming they had no other work to do.

          We believe authors need to take some responsibility for their Hubs, and we've tried our best to provide advanced warning, and the information necessary so that Hubs could be corrected before significant rules changes.

          1. Daniel Carter profile image91
            Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Then please don't make it a continual mystery for the writer to decifer HP's unclear heiroglyphics for reasons. A check list with a check box could also solve such problems as vagueness. As it stands your present categories are vague and too broad, as are most of the answers to questions.

          2. rmr profile image87
            rmrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            This is the type of response that has given rise to much of the unrest on HP. It comes off as glib,somewhat condescending and seems to imply that it is the hubber's fault that a rule change has put a previously acceptable hub into violation status. The hubbers who have stayed through all of the changes and continuous re-writing have taken responsibility for their hubs, but HP doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for the shabby treatment and apparent lack of respect for a writer's time and effort.

            Even more infuriating is the fact that HP is chasing off good writers with such minor issues, while SPAM and garbage are allowed to flourish on the site.

            Sure, the staff is overworked, but it seems that their time would be better spent taking out the trash than chasing innocuous "questionable" links and pixellated images.

            1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
              EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              They think we're their employees.  We're not.

          3. lakeerieartists profile image78
            lakeerieartistsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You know, responsible authors take responsibility for their work from day one, when they research, write, and publish their hubs.  In my own case, even a simple hub takes a few hours of research, before I get to writing, correcting, and publishing.
            Due to the fact that a small percentage of people write the large percentage of hubs on this site, it is not surprising that the mistakes, and rules changes have affected the hubbers with the biggest portfolios of hubs the most.

            If you are a hubber with 1000 hubs, then 5% of your portfolio is a large amount to fix.  If you happen to write in one of the now restricted areas, that number climbs exponentially.

            Your expectation that a person can rewrite that many hubs in two weeks after a questionable email, without real clarification is not realistic.  Especially since, many of these people are now scrambling to replace the income lost due to the changes on this site.

            As to the request of a "Don't Link" list, that is not unreasonable.  This is similar to the Squiddon't list that Squidoo has, where they list subjects that are not allowed, and there is another blacklist of websites that are not allowed to be linked to.  However, it would not be such a bad thing to grandfather in some successful hubs written long before these rule changes, or at the very least take the time needed to allow these hubbers more time to replace or fix these hubs.

            As Sunforged mentioned earlier in this thread, Hubpages was a fun and lucrative place to publish one's own work, and help others do the same.  When you take away the fun, and replace it with numerous frustrations, it gives people the impetus to turn away.

          4. Marisa Wright profile image92
            Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Fair enough, but there are two important things missing here.

            One is that you have NOT provided sufficient information.  The rules about RSS feeds and personal tags are now being interpreted completely differently than in the past, yet that has never been announced (just quietly changed in a blog post and FAQ).  Those violations can result in instant unpublishing, yet a Hubber who doesn't constantly revisit the FAQ would have no idea why.

            The other is that legitimate links are being mis-identified as affiliate - it has happened to me and two other Hubbers I know - yet if we query them, it takes two or three weeks to get them reviewed, during which time the Hub gets unpublished anyway.  So there needs to be a review of the deadline.

      2. Daniel Carter profile image91
        Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Nice of you to provide this explanation, Paul, but there is a metric butt load of other frustrations that Jason and other HP staff are not addressing that you may want consider addressing yourself.

        Obviously the information you provided still hasn't prevented the massive exodus of great writers from this site, nor has it yet alleviated any of the frustrations from the remaining list of HP writers who are considered among the very best.

        Lest you feel that my post is vague by not expressing exactly what those other frustrations and grievances may be, I suggest you take a look back through this thread, and your choice of any others and start compiling the long list. It's all there. I have other fish to fry to try to make up the difference of my own losses.

        Those who actually do write quality content here, who are severely penalized without clear reasons and also suffer an extreme loss of income, keep asking the same things of you without any clear explanation. How do you plan to recover from all this? By assuming there are other great writers out there who are still willing to be penalized without sufficient explanation and tolerate severe losses of income? I think not. Any great writers who appear here and begin this insane process will bail for any number of other safer opportunities that are now appearing.

        Paul, it spells doom for HP. Get your moderators and Jason, and whomever else to start responding UNDEFENSIVELY and helpfully to frustrations and legitimate concerns.

        End of rant.

  11. LeanMan profile image82
    LeanManposted 5 years ago

    Not having a clear set of understandable rules means that no one knows what it is they have to achieve, this is far too frustrating!

    Sunforged is right, where is the list?

    If someone has a hub unpublished for a reason, give a specific list of problems not a generic "you failed moron" letter that leaves honest people searching for hours to find out where they have gone wrong only to find that what they thought were the problems were not the ones you wanted fixed to only have the hub unpublished again!

    No one is perfect here, but highlight where the errors are, don't leave us guessing!!!

    1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
      mistyhorizon2003posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I totally agree,(on behalf of everybody penalised in this way) well said smile

    2. shazwellyn profile image83
      shazwellynposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate hubpages for helping us writers to be our best to honour our contract to TOS Google.  However, I too, find the methods employed is rather a 'guessing game'.  I really am at a loss at what you expect from me.  I used to know but the rules have become a mindfield.

      Do HubPages have a karma accolade?

  12. lakeerieartists profile image78
    lakeerieartistsposted 5 years ago

    It is totally understandable why Sunforged is so completely frustrated by his attempt to actually fix this problem, then have it unpublished again.

    While it may seem that writers here are repeating the same problems over and over, each time a hub gets unpublished the hubber is losing money from the time spent trying to fix the hub when they could be working on something else productive, and the money lost from the hub being unpublished in the first place, down for several days, and lost positions in the SERPS.

    And this is just one hub.  The fact that he already did get rid of what he thought was the offending links shows his good faith effort in cooperating with yet another change in the rules, yet he still is getting sucked into the downward spiral of frustration and more lost income.

    When a person relies on their own efforts to earn a living, each moment is truly precious, and lost time is a commodity that cannot be reclaimed.  That, I think, is the issue that Hubpages as a whole, has not really confronted.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Right on Lakeerie

      I had one Hub unpublished, had to write a three page essay on the virtues of 'common sense' to which they must have seen the light and took the warning off.

      But since I have had two and possibly a third being warned for an affiliate link.

      These hubs are 1500+ word hubs and extremely popular with readers and the product is a high quality product many hubs use.

      But I get this spam bot email suggesting my hub is low quality!

      Very rude and ignorant!

      What gives?

      Hubpages have no idea because no-one from the site has read the hub.

      So what I have to write 3 separate essays on the virtues of common sense just to have them allowed.

      Your right on, I could be spending this time writing other hubs that are requested by my readers than trying to convince Hubpages I am not a spammer.

      Do they really know which side their bread is buttered on?

  13. Jason Menayan profile image60
    Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago

    The Hub was not unpublished, published and then unpublished again.

    It was moderated (unpublished) for affiliate links, which was then cleared, but also moderated (while remaining unpublished) for poorly-structured and unrelated links.

    1. LeanMan profile image82
      LeanManposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Make it clear when you unpublished why it has been unpublished! Clear details not a vague standard email!!

      No one knows why, they don't all fully understand the rules! They don't all have the same rules of grammar and spelling!

      Nothing worse than having to try to guess what is wrong then have to come back and guess again and again!!!!!

    2. Lissie profile image85
      Lissieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If that is an example of a poorly structured hub with grammatical errors I think I might just give up now.

      And if sunforged hubs is a suffering from poor grammar - how come this gem of a first sentence just got published on the "latest hubs" page:

      "One of the first purchases you need to make if you plan to make a camping trip that will last several days is that of a tent to protect you from the elements and while you sleep overnight."

      LOL

      1. 0
        Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sunforged - poor structure & grammar?   That must be a huge insult.  Doubt any of us have any hope

  14. LeanMan profile image82
    LeanManposted 5 years ago

    With many years in the Quality Assurance business I can tell you that hiring human moderators without giving 100% clear rules and standards will result in chaos...

    If they have clear rules then give them to us too!!

    But remember humans are fallible, they will make mistakes, we all do! (Even my wife!)

    1. thisisoli profile image64
      thisisoliposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I take it your wife doesn't have access to these forums tongue

  15. TerryGl profile image61
    TerryGlposted 5 years ago

    Poorly structured : let's look at that.

    Here is your hubpage with 256 words, three sentences and one quote. This is what a poorly structured hubpage is:

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Debra-Menayan-Art

    Now, pixelated images : this hub is a perfect example of containing pixelated images.

    Finally, purely promotional such as Purely promotional offers and Hubs designed only to promote other sites or businesses are not allowed.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Look you can count the pixels, one, two, three!

  16. WryLilt profile image87
    WryLiltposted 5 years ago

    This is a waste of time.

    Sunforged, it's wasting your time. Jason, it's wasting your time. People who are responding, it's wasting your time.

    The biggest lesson I learned when explaining things to people is that:-

    It's easier to write one simple in depth explanation than to explain the same thing hundreds of times.

    1. Mutiny92 profile image86
      Mutiny92posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wry, I look at it a bit differently.  You posted a great thread on "adopt a spammer."  I think that it was needed because those accounts were allowed to prosper even though they put out "pretty lame" hubs (see Simone's comments about them) http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/75200#post1632910

      I look at it that the high-view, high-income accounts were put on "probation" but their hubs were allowed to remain published and earning income --- but good hubbers, who participate in the community and publish informative articles, like SF, have their hubs unpublished.  Is his hub really such a problem for HP that needs to be dealt with before the THOUSANDS of spam/"pretty lame" hubs from the authors you identified?

      I acknowledge that the moderators are working hard and have a large queue to review, but at the end of the day, the priorities tell the story of the organization.

      1. WryLilt profile image87
        WryLiltposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        My point is that if a list is made with clear simple rules, then time would be saved that could be used to combat spam.

        That's if the staff aren't too busy thinking of new accolades.

        1. Mutiny92 profile image86
          Mutiny92posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          agree - the priorities tell the story.

        2. dablufox profile image60
          dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Accolades don't really get me excited, but if hubpages wants to make use of them, then use the accolades as a rewards/contribution system.

          You obtain an accolade, hubpages loosens the choke a chain a little.

          This way hubbers get rewarded for their contribution instead of given the run around like they do now.

  17. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    "Well, the prohibited affiliate link will never be provided; we don't want that exploited by bad affiliate marketers."

    That should be rethought.

    You can add to the list if new programs arise that you don't want associations to. This is a rapidly changing field, that is understandable.

    But, explaining what exactly is prohibited to this point wont make "bad affs" appear or disappear, more likely it will just limit HP's targeting by undesirable elements if they are aware that its a losing battle.

    Adsense is the most easily exploitable and highest attractant for poor content that exists, one earns from the "viewer" who got away. At least real affiliate programs require stricter application processes and only reward the author that can sufficiently explain a product or service in order to inspire sales.

    Adsense and Amazon are just as likely to attract poor content and "bad apples" as any other earning model. Hell, Hpads is rewarding views!

    A nice list of domains that you do not want linked to will do wonders.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Right on Sunforged!

      It's not brain surgery!

      The hubbers writing spam will continue writing spam, just the spam will be on different topics now. Topics  that are not on the prohibited list.

      And well, hubpages will just keep expanding their prohibited list, just you watch!

  18. 1racedude profile image60
    1racedudeposted 5 years ago

    Wow! I haven't even written a hub yet and I'm runnin' scared. This really does seem like a lot of wasted effort to me, but I'm newer than a newbie so what do I know?

    1. Cagsil profile image61
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey 1racedude, I wouldn't jet just yet. Hang around, read through the forums, read some hubs and check things out. Make sure HP is for you. smile

    2. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry 'the hits just keep on coming'. If you stick around, the clowns will come out soon!

    3. 0
      Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      frustration has been boiling over for a while

  19. 69
    logic,commonsenseposted 5 years ago

    I find this discussion quite interesting.
    First the owners and employees are dissed quite harshly {deserved or not}.  Then they are asked for guidance, while being abused.  A little confused.
    Guess I was brought up wrong.  I always thought if you wanted something from someone, you treated them with a certain amount of courtesy and respect.  And even if you didn't want something from them, you at least treated them in a courteous manner.  But then that's just me.
    Apparently the perception is, the more the staff is browbeaten in an open forum, them more likely they'll cow to the beater.   Hope they have more backbone than that, for their sake.  It's a slippery slope.

    1. WryLilt profile image87
      WryLiltposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And we were all happy to jump in and correct our hub when the first few rounds of changes came out. But with at least half a dozen rounds, some people have had dozens or more hubs unpublished several times. And when people have hundreds or thousands of hubs, that's a lot of work.

      The new rules are enigmatic at best, resulting in a lot of confusion about how exactly to follow them.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image92
      Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely!  Have you come late to the discussions we've been having lately? 

      HubPages wants us, as writers, to provide material for them to earn advertising income.  In the past, they treated us with a certain amount of courtesy and respect. 

      In recent times, many writers feel they have not been treated with courtesy and respect, and while we've tried to maintain a courteous and polite demeanour in the face of insults, our patience is running thin.

      And what is making matters worse, is that the HubPages team members tasked with helping Hubbers on the forums are not knowledgeable enough to help anyone - and they are also not empowered to go and find out what they don't know.

      In the past, when an established Hubber like Sunforged posted on the forums, obviously deeply upset about a problem, he would never have been brushed off.  Maddie or Simone would have gone away, investigated the problem and returned with an answer.  That doesn't happen any more - we just get told to email team@, and because the team is so snowed, we don't get a response for days or weeks. 

      So I think it's understandable if even the most supportive of us, who have been doing our best to stay faithful to HubPages in spite of everything, are finding it hard to stay polite.

      1. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This new rule is train wreck!

        1. TattooVirgin profile image62
          TattooVirginposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Its very troubling indeed

      2. 69
        logic,commonsenseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No, I have been here all along.  I just didn't want to get into the spat.  Finally the tone of discourteous behaviour rose to such a height that I decided to express an opinion.  I respect the many writers that have placed high quality material on this site.  But they didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.  They did it so they could take advantage of what the company called Hubpages provided them.  A showcase for their work.  Everyone here has agreed to the terms of service.  Has it been a moving target lately?  Certainly.  Could it have been handled better?  Staff has admitted to it.  I very seldom stick up for "the man", but when the vitriol reaches the level where it is embarrassing to read, perhaps people need to step back and take a breath.  Hubpages will find more writers when others leave.  Some will be good, others not so much.  No one is being forced at gunpoint to stay here.  No one is being forced to do anything that they really don't want to.  My suggestion, and it's worth what it cost you, is that we set up a forum thread for realistic honest proposals for reform and refinement.  No complaints or nitpicking allowed.  Just straightforward suggestions that make sense and posted in a reasonable courteous tone.  Then perhaps staff could get more done to address real issues instead of answering petulant and self important whining.
        Good writers will help themselves and Hubpages will help good writers.  Sometimes the gestation period is a bit turbulent.

  20. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    The description earlier in this thread that one could simply

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/75569#post1635259

    read their email, head over to hub and.. all will be revealed , is misleading (quick flag it!)

    _________________________________________________

    This is what such an actual  warning states:

        *
          WARNING: This Hub is at risk of being unpublished for linking to prohibited sites

    Please address the moderator set alert below before submitting this Hub for publication.

        *
          Links to Prohibited Site

          This hub contains prohibited promotional links, or links to a site that may be difficult for visitors to navigate, such as:
              o Sites that contain pop-ups or pop-unders that interfere with site navigation, for example when clicking the back or close buttons, or that redirect users to unwanted websites
              o Affiliate or promotional links in subject areas containing a high proportion of low quality or promotional content (for example, forex, acai berry, MLM, weight loss, etc)smile
              o Links to eBook sales pages and lead capture forms

          If you would like to make changes to the Hub in order to bring it into compliance, please do so and then click the Submit for Publication button. We will review your Hub, and if appropriate, republish it. This process can take up to 72 hours. Hubs without substantial improvement will not be republished, and we will be monitoring any changes made to Hubs after republication.

          This information is based on a human review of this Hub,(OK SO TYPE OUT A QUICK HOW TO BRING INTO TERMS MESSAGE) and can only be cleared by HubPages staff. Edit your Hub and then use the "Submit For Publication" button to request that it be reviewed and republished.

    Repeatedly submitting Hubs for review that are still in violation of the rules will result in the permanent closure of your account. If you have questions about the rules, please review the FAQ, ask for clarification in the forum, or contact us before submitting your Hub for review.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Now this particular warning comes from a hub that was called Top 10 Affiliate Networks to use with Hubpages - Two of them are certainly no longer allowed,so I wont be complaining or trying to repost it as the information is no longer true for this platform. But, if I was to remove those 2 links, I still would have no way of knowing about the other 8 links since there is no list available to us and looking for assistance in the forums resulted in insults about my quality standards and decision making but no response to the some definitive resource for linked domains.

    As per the cached link that was unpublished - show me an example of a moderator or staff hubs that is equal in formatting and layout. That hub is beautiful.

    And contrary to how my hubtivity was translated in response to my original post - neither "substandard" or "unrelated links" appear on that hub

    it says:



    Please address the moderator set alert below, and correct the problem if possible.

        *
          Links to Prohibited Site

    This Hub has been submitted for publication, and will be published once it has been reviewed by the administrator.


    See, the frustration? I show screenshots of my hubtivity - I can read just fine, but then I get told that my hub isn't pulled for prohibited links - but rather a or b

    http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/439/thumbs/8478341810_b.jpg
    View at EasyCaptures.com
    cmon!



    If this is what a public explanation entails, whats going on in private..

    Essentially, a function for identifying this content from within the dashboard should have been a top priority. Then within an edit screen, any prohibited links should have been highlighted so a hub author and contributor could make the necessary edits with minimal confusion. Its too late, I guess.

    I just wanted to understand how to fix this one, as I have no intention of moving hubs about hubpages away from hubpages ..ya know?

    Instead I get to be a level V commenter and we now have SMS verification that could be beaten by a 12 year old. Yipppee

  21. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    I might have some typos or grammar mistakes on occasion.(When I discover them I fix them and am ashamed to have missed them)

    But, its also very important to note that writing for the web and marketing copy follow different conventions in format and style then academic writing.

    Attention levels and the different format of reading leads to a need for clean visual design, space for the eyes to breathe - bulleted lists , bold type , repetition, these are the conventions that online readers appreciate when they are scanning for information.

    Big blocks of text are signs that a writer is not paying attention to the format they write for.

    Before most of my content was hacked to pieces by the amazon raids I paid a great deal of attention to such details and they are far more important then the occasional typo.

    I only say this because I would like to know how they were able to afford a new moderation staff that is qualified as both Editors and conversant in cutting edge style guidelines of online writing.


    But again, I didn't even get that warning, I got "Prohibited Links" as the screenshot shows. Ill cut the links, just show me or tell me what they are, I dont want riddles, I want highlighted links.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There stumped!

  22. frogdropping profile image86
    frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

    The objectives of the site's owners and those that do (however you look at it) support the site 100% are in complete harmony.

    In essence it appears that both parties want the same thing.

    However the M.O. employed to achieve the potential end result is ultimately driving a large wedge between the two, and creating a new and unsual (for HP) 'them and us' mentality.

    This is about as productive as asking a blind man to accurately describe a Prius.

    For me the whole car crash reached a personal level when I had a hub unpublished due to a pixelated picture. I couldn't spot the one in question. I had to ask for clarity.

    I got the answer I was looking for. To my mind, the effort it took to reply to my email would have been exactly the same if the moderator had simply included the clarification in the original message.

    So, with regard to the OP, what is the problem with doing so? If a query email can be replied to (and all mine have) then why not cut out the need for misunderstanding and tack onto the end of the 'warning' email:

    The stems from 'x' link/s
    The issue relates to 'x' image/s
    The issue is 'x'

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Too much effort!

  23. SunSeven profile image65
    SunSevenposted 5 years ago

    Reminds me of a story I read long back, on borstal schools.

    Do as we tell you, otherwise....

    And dont ask questions.

    We have rules here.

    Doesnt matter how old you are. We have rules, rules, and rules.

    Just follow it, and DONT ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

    YOU GOT IT?

  24. thisisoli profile image64
    thisisoliposted 5 years ago

    I think what many people are trying to say, simplified is that Hubpages used to be a platform that focused towards the needs of the writers, many of which made a large portion of their income from Hubpages.

    Unfortunately Hubpages has not only been overloading many of these hubbers with changes required, many of them containing little relevance to the current situation, but they are not catering to the fact that many people cannot afford to have their work taken down for more than a few hours.

    Once your work has been taken down for a significant period of time, we know that Google will not rank it as highly in the future for much longer.

    Since Hubpages is made for the writers, I think their needs, and indeed sometimes their livelihood should be considered when implementing some of these measures. 

    I am not particularly saying blanket case niceties, sure get rid of all the duplicate and spun content, those guys were surfing in rough sees anyway, it's their own fault. For the legitimate marketers though Hubpages is fast developing a reputation for unreliability, and that doesn't do anyone any favours.

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hit the nail on the head!

      But apparently rules are rules!

  25. Simone Smith profile image92
    Simone Smithposted 5 years ago

    Oh boy, this is depressing.

    To those of you who have been frustrated about this affiliate links thing: I know it can seem confusing from your end, but the gist is this: the links that we have banned hurt our site, and we don't want them to dampen the chance all our writers should have to see success.

    We have done everything we can to be as clear as possible about affiliate links- the emails, the warnings, the announcements, etc...  Publishing a full list is impossible because it would be abused.  We don't want that to be the case, but it is, so our hands are tied.

    Yeah, going back and amending old work is frustrating.  We don't expect you to be happy about it; we're not happy about having to make you unhappy.  We're all just one big frowny face party.  But we're doing what is in the best interest of the entire community.  Seriously.  We're actually not out to destroy the site (SHOCK!).  If we could have avoid making people frustrated, we would.  (Or WOULD we?? yikes)

    If you can find it in your hearts to be patient, once again, I'd appreciate it.  If not... erm... carry on.

    As a final note, mad props to dablufox for the phrase "galactically stupid."  It made my day.  That's beautiful!

    1. Daniel Carter profile image91
      Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Simone, there is something very important that I think we all need to clarify to each other. As writers who are invested here, we DO put ourselves in your shoes, because we have acted in good faith that we are all working together for mutual good. We get that. We get that HP staff is swamped past eyelids because of Panda. We got the news before, during and after.

      But it still does not feel to most writers who are invested here that HP has put on the writers' shoes and walked that mile. We get that you are trying to moderate TONS of hubs and profiles, and complaints. But it sure doesn't seem like the writers are getting even bone chips thrown to them, let alone a bonafide bone. We ask for clarification, some of which we actually do receive, but much of which is thrown back at us because we need to "take responsibility." Taking responsibility without clear guidelines, without second guessing erroneous flags, emails, warnings, etc. is called shooting in the dark at an unknown target.

      Writers are asking for clarification. One sentence of clarification included in warning message would make all the difference in many cases.

      I think we could agree that it's kinda depressing on both sides of this fence.

      I'm not addressing all my remarks at you. I'm addressing them generally to the Pauls, who oversee what HP staff does.

      I've gone from complete devotion and cheerleading for HP to unplugging all together. I'm trying to find a happy medium in this transition, trying to believe that it will all come together. Each day seems to get a little worse, not better. Facts and answers are better than cheerleading and pretending it will all get better soon.

      1. Simone Smith profile image92
        Simone Smithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm with you Daniel.  The waves of our tightening standards are frustrating- at both ends.  And it IS depressing on both sides of the fence, though I'd rather there not be a fence at all.  A slip n' slide would be way cooler.

        We've done our best to be accurate with warnings and filters; we're also working super hard with clarification, but one of the frustrating aspects (on the mod end) is that many people (not everyone, but a sizable number) will continually ask for clarification, no matter how hard we try to make things clear.  And another sizable number will continually try to push all clear listings to the very edge, not in an effort to comply with our quality standards, but to snake around them.  That really sucks, because it's making the experience worse for cool people like you.

        I totally get a need to unplug.  I think we all need to for a while, just to get perspective, since many of the changes we've instituted are a total slog.  And while I don't at all blame you for putting down the cheerleading pom poms, I do want to say that we're going to get through this, and that the site is going to come out better than ever.

    2. WoodsmensPost profile image67
      WoodsmensPostposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes Simone there are many more in the background who are adjusting to the changes.

      I just read a post from a hubber that you are taking away the fun lol lol lol which is highly unlikely

      1. Simone Smith profile image92
        Simone Smithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, but I am.  I'm sucking it away from HubPages so I can inject it and live forever.

      2. sunforged profile image65
        sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wouldnt you be more comfortable using your Quality Noob account?

    3. lrohner profile image85
      lrohnerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Am I stupid? How would someone "game" a blacklist? I work with one every day over at Demand Media. The list is updated as sites are added to it, and there are general conditions above and beyond the list that we can't use certain 'types' of sites, like forums or personal blogs. Pretty clearcut, I'd say.

      ==========================================

      Policeman: License and registration, ma'am.

      Driver: What did I do?

      Policeman: You drove over the speed limit, ma'am.

      Driver: Speed limit? How fast can I go?

      Policeman: Well, I can't really tell you that, ma'am. But you went over it.

      Driver: Why can't you tell me?

      Policeman: Because other drivers might take advantage of having that information.

      Driver: But how can I stay within legal limits if I don't know what the law is?

      Policeman: I don't know, ma'am. We've been very clear that each road has a speed limit and you're not to break it. It's the best we can do. Now turn around and put your hands behind your back.

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        yikes



























        lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

      2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
        mistyhorizon2003posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        ROFLMAO, absolutely brilliant analogy big_smile

      3. Ricardo Nunes profile image71
        Ricardo Nunesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ok! This post deserves to be felicitated! Thanks lrohner... I couldn`t express myself better about what changed on Hubpages lately and that no one understands. I mean nobody!
        Let the people work... unless of course, if they are not trying to help others :-)

        Unfortunately sometimes it`s impossible to understand who`s trying and who`s really helping... it can`t be just how much we earn from it, but how much we can really help other people out there :-)

      4. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Right on cagsil, it's an insane point to try and push.

        Creating a blacklist on affiliate links on a specific topic will just push spammers on other topics.

        And back onto the merry go round we go!

        We might as well block all affiliate links cos that's were we are going. Then well see an uproar.

        Attack the problem, not the symptom! HB needs to focus on spam hubbers not carry on like Stalin.

      5. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Love it lrohner, top stuff!

      6. Eric Graudins profile image60
        Eric Graudinsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cracked me up Lisa.
        Champagne satire!

        Take a bow.

      7. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I received this email from a hubpages spambot

        'Your Hub's content is great.  However, linking to http://www.marketsamurai.com/

        is no longer allowed:

        We no longer allow Hubs to link (directly or through redirects) to affiliate or commerce sites which are prohibited under the HubPages rules (e.g. Clickbank and sites that sell eBooks, promote dubious offers, contain a lead capture form, redirect users to unwanted websites, or contain pop-ups, pop-unders, or other features that interfere with site navigation).

        Please remove those links and resubmit for publication.'

        Rules, rules, rules - we gotta have rules.

        What I don't understand is that I have written an email and they saw the light and re-published the hub, yet with this one I have to write a string of emails for the moderator to wake up and smell the roses.

        Why? If a moderator admits that a hub is of high quality, won't they re-publish a hub with an banned topic affiliate link?

        Is it that they want to funnel writers to publish adsense and amazon hubs exclusively.

        I wonder?

  26. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/439/8696064499.png

    http://awesomescreenshot.com/0d6daokdd

    It was cleared of prohibited links (for the second time without any edit on my side, which was my original complaint)

    Now it has unrelated links, which of course are the 60dc links which was listed as a community effort that could be linked together, just as hubmob, contests etc.

    The effort did spur 900 hubs and encompassed 50+ writers - that equates to a relationship to me

    its also a slippery slope - I get unpublished for "unrelated links" my response (60dc aside) would be - the hubs linked to are examples and/or models of using the keyword tips described or of participating in the 60dc.


    I could write about Stephen King and have links to maybe a maine tourism site.. would you understand the relationship? the target audience would. I might also link to the discography of the Blue Oyster Cult and The National Park Service (wikipedia does - would you know why off the  top of your head?)

    Basically, these assumptions that either your mods or your software can understand relationships in any way other then contextual is reaching and overbearing and being unpublished in order to explain is a despotic and unnecessary waste of all our time.

    Relationships and "related" are a very complicated thing.


    http://ih2.redbubble.net/work.4363262.1.flat,550x550,075,f.indras-web-spiders-web-laden-with-dew.jpg


    Are you familiar with Indra's Net?


    "Imagine a multidimensional spider's web in the early morning covered with dew drops. And every dew drop contains the reflection of all the other dew drops. And, in each reflected dew drop, the reflections of all the other dew drops in that reflection. And so ad infinitum" (My favorite Author)


    or perhaps Douglas Adams?



    ""I'm very glad you asked me that, Mrs Rawlinson. The term `holistic' refers to my conviction that what we are concerned with here is the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. I do not concern myself with such petty things as fingerprint powder, telltale pieces of pocket fluff and inane footprints. I see the solution to each problem as being detectable in the pattern and web of the whole. The connections between causes and effects are often much more subtle and complex than we with our rough and ready understanding of the physical world might naturally suppose, Mrs Rawlinson.
    "Let me give you an example. If you go to an acupuncturist with toothache he sticks a needle instead into your thigh. Do you know why he does that, Mrs Rawlinson?

    No, neither do I, Mrs Rawlinson, but we intend to find out. A pleasure talking to you, Mrs Rawlinson. Goodbye.""


    http://searunner.sv-timemachine.net/images/misc8/deadbabyfish.jpg

    1. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lets talk related smile

      1. TattooVirgin profile image62
        TattooVirginposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Very Interesting analogy, your an impressive mind sunforged, I know you will do great things, hmmmm sunforged, going to remember the name

    2. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's like banging your head against a brick wall, slightly amusing but mostly painful. Nice Forum posts Sunforged, its a waste their not hubpages, who can we blame for this?

    3. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Because, it bears further banging of head against wall.

      An analysis of relatedness needs to be further explored.

      Recently, I had a hub on "PayPal Tools" unpublished for "unrelated products"

      The Products are - wholesale lots at ebay
                       - ebay seller educational tools


      As an ebay seller, a former powerseller, I am in the position to tell you what related is, what the target demographic is and what potential motivations of a viewer are.

      That is what you think about when considering product selection.

      I think the modstaff may be using a dictionary or their own limited experiences (not a denigration, all experience is limited) to make judgement of relatedness. It is infinitely frustrating to be judged by those with less experience in such matters.

      Keep in Mind that products and services of interest to a reader can be more broad - they can speak to the demographic or motivations of the reader.

      A Hub about perhaps lawnmower blades would not have "unrelated" links if the person chose to include "garden gloves"

      It would be a great low cost impulse buy and is relevant to the activity although not a textual match.

      The whole idea of running our policing product selection is ludicrous.. this site used adsense which shows ads and products based on advertisers targeting and HpAds which seems to be rarely related.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image92
        Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't resist flogging a dead horse.   I wish the HubPages team could see that as a sign of how committed we were to the site, rather than (as I fear is the case), deciding that we're troublemakers, so they ignore anything we post.

        Although Paul has said they read the forums, I have yet to see any evidence that they've read threads like this, so I doubt your comments about reviewing "relatedness" will reach anyone who could do anything about it.

        Jason has said time and time again that moderating is not his job and he doesn't see it as his role to pass on anything in the forum.

  27. 0
    Home Girlposted 5 years ago

    Let me humbly remind you, guys, that it was Google, not Hubpages, who started everything. We have thousands of writers of all shapes and colors. How can HP answer everybody in detail?They (HP) have to work out completely new strategy and I am sure they will do that in due time. We all have to be patient and work for the best. I am sure there are and will be lots of mistakes and hurt feelings too. I am sure, Sunforged, no one could blame you for "poor grammar or structuring". It's all I am sure just automatic response, nothing more.
    May be, just may be, HP should be more attentive to the needs of authors with the score of 100, with lots of absolutely valuable hubs. Because Hubpages' loss might be somebody else's gain. We've already lost some interesting productive informative writers. But who am I to judge? Just a Home Girl.
    Quite harmless.

    1. Simone Smith profile image92
      Simone Smithposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I entirely agree with you, Home Girl.  I really appreciate what you've said.  We really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.  And we are definitely doing our best to respond to everyone.

      1. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not hurt my feelings?

        How is getting a spam bot email suggesting my 1500+ word is a low quality hub and I should read a few of these 'high quality hubs' to get an idea.

        Three time this has happened, the first time they re-published, so it must not have been below par after all.

        I have better things to do than write email after email and then waiting for my hub to be actually read by a human being and re-published.

        Obviously this blanket ban was a bad idea, because its catching the wrong fish!

        Is it so hard to give extra privileges to high scoring hubbers so they don't get caught up in a blanket rule!

    2. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate that Home Girl, if I wanted to I could move my whole portfolio and have it rehosted in under 24 hours and likely rebuild some sort of search presence in the same period that it will take Google to recognize any adjustments.

      Thats not what I want, I want to be able to understand what the rules are w/o being told Im daft for not getting it or being expected to experiment a hundred ways to make a flag go away. I want to be bale to keep my hard work right where it is.

      But - Google hasnt done anything - HP has reacted to a Google change - everything good or bad is HP's doing. Blame it on Google is not an excuse.

      Jason has pointed out that these changes were planned prior to Panda and the hows of these changes are all HP's doing.


      I tried to point out technical solutions and wondered why other technical wall dressing were implemented instead. Im questioning the standard of "relatedness" and Ive shown screenshots of the flip-flops just one hub is going through.

      This is broken.

      1. WoodsmensPost profile image67
        WoodsmensPostposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry you feel this way maybe this will help.. push this


        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5063980_f248.jpg

      2. Daniel Carter profile image91
        Daniel Carterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I understand what you are saying. I get it. But those looking for loopholes are always going to be around. They are generally easy to spot and easy to get rid of once they cross the final line, and they almost always do. It's a check list.

        But as you can see by my inclusion of sunforged post above, there is some massive flip-flopping and inconsistency. If you can wrangle the Pauls to actually see the evidence, it would really help zero in with laser point accuracy some of the wild, crazy bat sh*t stuff good writers are going through.

        Consistency has got to improve. The any-thing-that-moves-this-way approach, with shoot-to-kill policy isn't working.

        Okay, I'm ending my rant here. I'm letting go and heading for the palm trees. Since the end of the world is coming in a couple of days, I need to be where I can enjoy it, after working 70 hours a week for a while now.

    3. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Goolgle didn't create the blanket ban!

      Hubpages has failed to stem the spammers, now they create a knee jerk rule that punishes the most valuable, high quality and prolific writers?

      Way to go!

    4. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Google didn't create the blanket ban!

  28. thisisoli profile image64
    thisisoliposted 5 years ago

    "the links that we have banned hurt our site, and we don't want them to dampen the chance all our writers should have to see success."

    There doesn't seem to be much evidence of one or two affiliate links dropping articles in serps, before or after Panda.

    There are plenty of studies out there supporting that fact, some of the early ones of which Paul Edmonson might have seen discussed off the board at PubCon, it was a hot topic by the end of that convention.

  29. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    would have been funny if you linked the image to veruca salt singing. But,you didnt ,

    like this.

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5063980_f248.jpg


    You see?

    Now "push" it.

    I realize this conversation is a bit above your pay grade, but try and keep up at least make your jabs funny or go use your sock puppet to really try and rile me up. (see the relatedness)

    But, my questions are not overdemanding, I dont want the world, I want some truth!- Ive displayed the screenshots heard an inaccurate translation then received a moderation of which the handy forum post stickied specifically clears the hub of.

    1. WoodsmensPost profile image67
      WoodsmensPostposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol at least I got you to lighten up for a second on this thread Have a great day !!!! Great video link btw lol

    2. TattooVirgin profile image62
      TattooVirginposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Oh that's good Veruca Salt is such a brat, who ever wants whats unreasonable is VS, not the writers, I hear over and over content is KING well if you've got that run with it, use it as what it is your tool to do with as you THE WRITER so desires.  My Mom always told me to avoid trouble so that's what I aim to do, TISXOBBAEXCERPT

  30. soni2006 profile image47
    soni2006posted 5 years ago

    Sorry to interrupt in between. I don't come to the forums most of the times but I would like to say something today.

    Friends, I received an email a few weeks ago via HP. It contained links to four of my hubs which had been marked having clickbank affiliate links and may be 150 or more having news capsule (that has been removed from HP).

    I just corrected my four hubs removing the affiliate links and left away all the hubs with news capsules as it was clearly mentioned in the email that these will be automatically deleted but if you will remove the news capsule on your own than that would be better for your hub layouts.

    Hubpages.com was not accessible at my office and home for around three to four days and I didn't modify the news capsule. What has happened now is all my hubs are published and everything is fine. I think it was simple and plain.

    What do you guys think about this?

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Think yourself lucky!

      Many of us have been placed on the merry go round and now they are turning up the speeeeed!

      1. soni2006 profile image47
        soni2006posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think you are right. I need to revisit my hubs again.

        1. dablufox profile image60
          dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ever been involved in a huge train wreck, where everything moves in slow motion.

          Well your in one now!

  31. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    I have provided an example, perhaps said "good writers" could attempt to stay on topic or start their own cheerleading threads.

    I placed screenshots and very relevant examples of issue inherent in moderation in this instance. If possible, It would be nice to have relevant discussion.

    In some bit of irony - what is "related" is the point Im flogging at the moment.

    Keep in mind the hub that  is getting tossed about has nearly more text and images then your entire account. Which doesnt make it better or worse, but how would you feel if your entire account was unpublished with the reasoning changed 3-4 times and the responses being in direct opposition to what little rules are actually explained?

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No amount of diplomatic explanation can justify why a popular, clearly high quality hub from a prolific high scoring hubber such as sunforged, has been placed in limbo.

      The problem is low quality hubs from spammy hubbers, not topics that seemingly attract low quality hubs from spammy hubbers.

      Or is there another agenda here?

  32. 0
    Home Girlposted 5 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5064226_f248.jpg

    And you really had to do that?

    1. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, but your cat made me give up smile Decided to go spend some quality time with my own animals in the sunshine

  33. Mutiny92 profile image86
    Mutiny92posted 5 years ago

    SF, do you know yet what is wrong with the structure?

  34. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    My last email is from 19 hours ago:

    "Dear sunforged,

    Your Hub has been identified as a violation of our Terms of Use. If this is the first time you've gotten an email like this, don't worry! You'll have an opportunity to fix it.

    Violation: Promotes site(s) or product(s) unrelated to Hub content.

    A link to your Hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Keyword-tips-Mo … ords"


    The last instance of any hubtivity about it was 5 hours ago:

    http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/439/9770534071.png


    because, you spurred me to look - I can see the latest ,essage on the hub is:

    "    *
          Unrelated Links or Products

          This Hub has been identified as promoting unrelated site(s) or product(s). In order to have it republished, you will need to remove all links and product capsules that do not directly relate to the content.

          If you would like to make changes to the Hub in order to bring it into compliance, please do so and then click the Submit for Publication button. We will review your Hub, and if appropriate, republish it. This process can take up to 72 hours. Hubs without substantial improvement will not be republished, and we will be monitoring any changes made to Hubs after republication.

          This information is based on a human review of this Hub, and can only be cleared by HubPages staff. Edit your Hub and then use the "Submit For Publication" button to request that it be reviewed and republished.

          Repeatedly submitting Hubs for review that are still in violation of the rules will result in the permanent closure of your account. If you have questions about the rules, please review the FAQ, ask for clarification in the forum, or contact us before submitting your Hub for review."
    __________________________________________________________

    Just so its clear - when they say click on the warning and the links will be identified ^ thats it - no links are identified.


    I didnt receive any notice or anything that there was a change in why its unpublished, I had to go look.

    These are probably the "unrelated' (as defined by who or what? ..merely someone who is not the target audience, that is who) links:

        * North America Animals Top 10 Endangered Species List

          Many animals that once thrived in the wild on the North American Continent are now threatened with extinction. - 13 months ago
        * Famous and Best Mexican Actors and Actresses

          In honor of the Cinco de Mayo (May 5) celebration, I will feature in this hub the beautiful, best and famous Mexican actresses and actors. - 13 months ago
        * Humor Quotes and Funny Jokes About Pregnant Women - Pregnancy Quotes and Jokes

          Humor Quotes and Funny Jokes About Pregnant Women. - 13 months ago


    3 links in rss from the 60dc that I consider models of using the topics information 'Keyword Tips" - as far as Im concerned there is no such thing as an unrelated link to this hub, its about online writing and any online writing can be a relevant example.

    Furthermore, HubMob and HubContests use the same format.

    you can see in the cache: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour … 8zyBRDuzlw

    Since the warning states- "Repeatedly submitting Hubs for review that are still in violation of the rules will result in the permanent closure of your account."

    and I dont expect an answer to this:

    Basically, these assumptions that either your mods or your software can understand relationships in any way other then contextual is reaching and overbearing and being unpublished in order to explain is a despotic and unnecessary waste of all our time.

    Relationships and "related" are a very complicated thing.


    http://ih2.redbubble.net/work.4363262.1.flat,550x550,075,f.indras-web-spiders-web-laden-with-dew.jpg


    Are you familiar with Indra's Net?


    "Imagine a multidimensional spider's web in the early morning covered with dew drops. And every dew drop contains the reflection of all the other dew drops. And, in each reflected dew drop, the reflections of all the other dew drops in that reflection. And so ad infinitum" (My favorite Author)


    or perhaps Douglas Adams?



    ""I'm very glad you asked me that, Mrs Rawlinson. The term `holistic' refers to my conviction that what we are concerned with here is the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. I do not concern myself with such petty things as fingerprint powder, telltale pieces of pocket fluff and inane footprints. I see the solution to each problem as being detectable in the pattern and web of the whole. The connections between causes and effects are often much more subtle and complex than we with our rough and ready understanding of the physical world might naturally suppose, Mrs Rawlinson.
    "Let me give you an example. If you go to an acupuncturist with toothache he sticks a needle instead into your thigh. Do you know why he does that, Mrs Rawlinson?

    No, neither do I, Mrs Rawlinson, but we intend to find out. A pleasure talking to you, Mrs Rawlinson. Goodbye.""


    http://searunner.sv-timemachine.net/images/misc8/deadbabyfish.jpg


    I will simply have to move it elsewhere, perhaps to hubsacademy, although I had no plans to continue that project further, it can be an archive of a time past.


    As a fun sidenote - How is a Douglas Adams allusion and an image of some mackerel related?

    1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
      EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "So long, and thanks for all the fish"?

  35. Mutiny92 profile image86
    Mutiny92posted 5 years ago via iphone

    I thought they said the problem was structure?

    Who's on first?  What's on second??

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Still waiting for a reply from my two hubs, been two days now!

      1. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I find it petty that HB has removed my forum posting accolade off in retaliation for my latest forum posts, sneaky, sneaky!

        Very petty if you ask me!

  36. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 5 years ago

    The affiliate spammers would find a way anyway to game the system as it were even without the affiliate prohibited list, so why not show a prohibited affiliate list?

    Affiliate marketers are going to trial and error certain affiliate programs or networks and see what doesn't trip the filter anyway

    1. dablufox profile image60
      dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's exactly right, I have said the same thing in somewhat different words.

      I have said this before and I'll say it again, spammer hubbers will simply get a feel for different topics and find out which topics they can promote affiliate products with their spammy hubs.

      So it makes no sense at all to create a blanket ban on topics because its just common sense that in due time the spammers will just shift to other topics.

      Why doesn't HB target the spammers, is it so hard?

      They have the technology/metrics to measure just about everything. Instead of giving someone a roman numeral for the number of comments why can't they use the metrics to clamp down on low quality hubs?

      1. dablufox profile image60
        dablufoxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Look it's happening already!

        219 hubs in 20 months, thats 11 hubs a month, no biggie but impressive.

        But the affiliate links on some of the hubs, you be the judge!

        Fat Cat Blueprint

        http://www.fatcatblueprint.com/?hop=prouser

        Adsense Recipe

        http://www.adsenserecipe.com/?hop=prouser

        These are just a few 'classy' affiliate links that are slipping through the topic affiliate blanket ban dragnet rule.

  37. sunforged profile image65
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    Nope, not submitted, now I have to go back and put all the links back

    What good is a top ten list of aff networks without links, Ill just take the "Hubpages" out of the title

    1. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago

      Submitted - after adding all links back, only Clickbank triggered the filter.

      So, I spent an hour staring at the "dont submit" sign stupidly thinking it meant something

      Dumb me, it was the Orange warning sign, that mattered, now I get it. How could I have mixed that up so badly.

      The rest I can just ignore , the big red words, they didnt matter.

      Got it.

      1. WryLilt profile image87
        WryLiltposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. Basically until you've submitted the words don't go away. smile

        Nice to know I'm not the only blonde one around!

    2. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago

      I would contend that the only blondes around are the designers.

      http://easycaptures.com/2469902810

      1. WryLilt profile image87
        WryLiltposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Can't argue.

    3. SunSeven profile image65
      SunSevenposted 5 years ago

      Glad to see, that you have found the answer at last, sunforged! smile

      Best Regards

      1. sunforged profile image65
        sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I did not, what gave you that idea?

        Still wondering what "related" is, I have  posted all sorts of pretty pictures and quotes providing  examples and an important note/example that "relatedness" is apparent to the creator and the target market (intended viewer) only, there is no way that the site can understand relationships intended and implied.

        Look how it bungled the one it once had with its writers?

        But, way to much  time has been wasted and communication quality and response time is so dismal, Its laughable.

        So, I point back to the mackerel and the hubs still sit unpublished. I'll collect my toys quietly now.


        __________________________________________________

        The latest, Internet Marketing Lexicon

        Substandard -

        Word Count2954      <-----------
        Revenue Potential$$$
        Incoming Links∗∗∗
        View Duration∗∗∗∗∗?  <------------
        First Published03/02/09


        3000 word substandard work smile
        cached link

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sunforged , you definately deserve an accolade for persisting!!

          Im quite confused,noticed a black triangle when I last looked at my account-yikes roll off I go to fix it, or make pizza.
          Decisions ,decisions wink

    4. tritrain profile image75
      tritrainposted 5 years ago

      I continue to come back every few days HOPING that HubPages has given us some valuable information or fixed one of the many unhelpful messages.

      And yet, I am continually disappointed.

      That's my fault. I expected some professional courtesies.  I should expect the worst from HubPages, and then maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

      1. tritrain profile image75
        tritrainposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        ...was that a tumble weed that just went by?

    5. LuisEGonzalez profile image80
      LuisEGonzalezposted 5 years ago

      OK, all the arguments posted seem valid as does the frustration. Vague answers and rules are a fact that we have to deal with, but that said does anyone really think that the HP staff is "out to get you". Would they really not be trying their hardest to make Hp better than what it is, after all they make their living from it. Although they could do a better job, I humbly suggest for us to be patient and bear with them as this issue appears to be due to Google's demands.
      Please I urge everyone for some cordiality.

    6. sunforged profile image65
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago

      They have blocked Market Samurai affs? I should think that those who write about such things would be good for a business such as this one and that such a tool would be quite useful.

      Actually, I know it is, I wonder if someone who is skilled in keyword research would have any reason to share such knowledge.

      Why make potential competition smarter, if you cant even earn from a solid product recommendation?

      I had to pull my MicroNicheFinder links - I use both tools regularly and HP was reaping the benefit of there findings.

      Be sure to tell your affmanager at MS - perhaps they will find another location to promote on their end too

    7. Eric Graudins profile image60
      Eric Graudinsposted 5 years ago

      I used to be disgusted.
      Now I'm just amused.

    8. Joshuad profile image79
      Joshuadposted 5 years ago

      My hubs are also unpublished without warnings.

    9. talfonso profile image88
      talfonsoposted 5 years ago

      Sorry to beat a dead horse, but that happened to me several hours ago! My Hub sat well with my readers, and suddenly it got unpublished due to having "Links to prohibited sites!" I remeoved what I thought were the offenders because none of them are highlighted! This is really nutty for me!

      That makes me wonder: are sites from Triond those "Links to prohibited sites?" Those warnings drive me mad!

      Here's the list of them:
      http://writinghood.com/writing/the-triond-sites/

      1. Marisa Wright profile image92
        Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Talfonso, the last time I got a "prohibited sites" warning, I clicked on the link in the warning and it told me exactly which links were the problem. I assumed that was a new feature - did you try that?

        1. talfonso profile image88
          talfonsoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No - but maybe I might. I hope it would work...

    Closed to reply
     
    working