Influx of people who can't write proper English

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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
This is why Google slapped the heck out of this site the first time, Are you okay with this stuff bringing the site down completely. If so, then start looking around for another place to put your work if we continue to allow gibberish on the site.
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  LisaMarie724posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Randy. Bad content in general is dragging us down and Google isn't showing us much love. I'd hate to have put in so much hard work here to have it all gone to waste because others can't spell or whatever the case is. And, that goes for everyone, not a specific race or region.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Many of us feel the same way Lisa Marie, but then we don't have much say so here. HP does its best to pass off obvious badly written text as being quite passable merely to keep it on the site. I think many of us realize this, but some simply go along with it as people are prone to do out of loyalty or for making brownie points. There are always those.
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  LisaMarie724posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I try to do my part by hub hopping and flagging, but I don't really know how beneficial that is.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  None of us really do, LM. It frightens me to consider what the words "quality hub hopping" really means. I used to like to help clean up the scrum--or I thought I was doing so--but now I don't feel I'm unqualified enough to help them obtain their goals.
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  paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, play time?
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay! Why did the chicken run away from the rooster?
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can already see this one coming... so to speak.
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  paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I also await.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Im not sure he should print the answer.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So the other chickens wouldn't think she was a ho.
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SimeyCposted 12 years ago
OK I looked at the last 30 featured hubs - most were OK and were generally written in understandable English - I'm not an expert on Grammar but most seemed OK.

This is an extremely small sample - and I suspect I wouldn't find the 'bad' hubs as it's probably early morning in the Mid East - so my results are inconclusive. Anyone want to check every hub featured for the next 24 hours!?
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SmartAndFunposted 12 years ago
The chicken is a mighty beast! A dangerous animal!
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's right!
  
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  SmartAndFunposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLOLOL
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SmartAndFunposted 12 years ago
Ooops, maybe I shouldn't have reposted that photo. Sorry. Gonna see if I can fix...

I can figure out how to edit my own words but as far as the photo??? Oh well, it did make me laugh.
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't re-post it. Big Brother's robot did.
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Cock of the Walkposted 12 years ago
It just hit me.

Influx of people who can't write proper English.

This should read:

Influx of people who can't write English properly.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I thought the same thing, but I kept my mouth shut.
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have been too impulsive since the accident.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  the one where you were inexplicably turned into a cock?
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! It was brutal!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Proper English" is actually quite a common phrase. At least in England where we use it . It was written as intended.
  
  http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/pr … glish.aspx
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That figures.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Y'all talk funny.
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dam if they don't.
  
  Maybe this will teach them "proper English". Step up and live right, limey.
  
  http://youtu.be/DUKt91wvPE8
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *damned
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dang if they don't.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *danged
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That reminds me of the lady who moved here from England. My aunt took her a casserole and asked her, "Where are you from?"
  
  The English lady replied, "Where I am from, we do not end a sentence with a preposition."
  
  My aunt said, "Then, where are you from, bitch?"
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your aunt had a mean streak.
  I have spent a whole lot of time with a lot of British friends I made online. I feel like an honorary Brit myself... Bob is my uncle.
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  Cock of the Walkposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some of my best friends are Brits.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As long as they don't try to post here on hubpages, using their pretend english, bringing us all down, they're ok by me.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not necessarily. "Proper" is still an adjective modifying "English," and thus still serves as the appropriate object of the verb "speak." In fact, the only difference between "speak proper English" and "speak English properly" is that the base word "proper" is an adjective in the former and an adverb in the latter.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He did say he was writing as a Brit would speak, so I guess it just sounds odd to an American.
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
Just a heads up for those who really give a damn. Pearldiver has received a forum ban for defending himself on this thread. Yep, the anonymous mods are very brave today. Don't you just admire their duplicity?
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ocbillposted 12 years ago
wait til' you see hub responses with SMS acronyms, new teenager abbreviations for words, and so on. If they don't police the grammar properly, imagine what more is to come than the well known LOL.
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dailytop10posted 12 years ago
I think there's nothing we can do about this problem other than hit the flag button. I seldom use the hub hopper lately but I usually come across at least one poorly written hub if I do. English is not my native Language and anyone can easily say that my hubs are not perfect. Nonetheless, I always do my best to free them from grammar and spelling errors before publishing. I believe it comes down to effort and your dedication to create quality hubs than simply spam the site with crappy content.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've had many college students (native English speakers) who cannot write as well as you can, dailytop. I'm impressed. I just wish the site would require at least some level of fluency for writers here.
  
  Even some basic jobs such as working on assembly lines require the ability to read and write English. You'd think that writing 'informative hubs' would have a standard, too.
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  dailytop10posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for those kind words. And you're right. All of us can benefit if Hubpages focus more on scrutinizing every hub queued for publication.
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Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years ago
Just a few phrases from a hub I flagged moments ago. Something about making sorbet.

*************************************
"Heat just until boiling, when all precious is dissolved.
Process until smooth in food processor with melon chunks, cover and fibrillation until cool all the way through

Ingredients
• 2 cups unfading mango chunks
Process menopausal smooth with mango"

**************************************
Anyone know what your 'precious' is? I don't want to dissolve the wrong thing. But maybe if I do the fibrillation right, there won't be a problem. I'm going to go get some unfaded mango chunks and process them until they're 'menopausal smooth.'
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was in the hopper, yes?
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - in the 'mystery' hopper with the sliders. I rarely go on that one, but almost everything I saw today was flag-worthy. This one, however, was priceless.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *Grins*
  
  And it was beautifully set up and written well except for an occasional really odd word that was WAY out of the norm of spinning?
  
  So if you were relying completely on the look of the hub and just scanning it you might have missed it?
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You reckon it was one of the hubs to test MTurkers put in especially by HP? Ahh the deceit!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The truly blatant ones like that pop up every once in a while and if you miss them then forget your bonuses for the next four or five days while you try to make it up. If you are at a low enough percentage than forget your qualification.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This was in the regular Hopper on the site - I am not on mTurk. I assume these have already been vetted by the software and put through the mTurk cycle?
  
  WHY, however, do we have to be subjected to these in the Hopper? And will they really be deleted?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt the originial hub will be deleted, but the fake hub you rated appears no where on the site. The un-altered one does, I'm sure.
  
  I think the hub hopper is used for both hubbers and mturkers, so both would have to have control hubs.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean they put 'fake' hubs in the regular Hopper here? I am not on the Turk thing - this was on the site's Hopper. This is a for-real hub.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Check your email Marcy.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The same hopper is used for everyone, so they would kinda have to.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just read your statement about 'control' hubs - if that's the case, then I'm done with the Hopper. I don't have time to play games. The majority of what I 'hopped' today was junk, or low-quality. Certainly not anything worthy of a site devoted to informative articles. Many of them were blog-like, some were promotional. And then there was this one.
  
  If the site believes those of us who voluntarily go on the hopper, trying to help out, have time to fool with junk like this that is 'planted,' then they're targeting someone other than me for that task. I think I am pretty tough with my standards, and I don't mind hopping a few hubs now and then, but I don't have time for 'test' hubs.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Marcy, they have to test the turkers for accuracy. It would be very expensive to run two systems. It's not malicious or a game. It's to make sure that we are doing our jobs.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point - about the expense of running two systems. So leave the 'classic' hopper for the volunteers. As I said - I don't like to be jerked around. I am somewhere beyond p*****d off over this.
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thinking about it, they sort of have to put the fake bad in the site hopper. They use your ratings when you do it through the site, just the way they use Melissa's when she does them through the hopper. So they have to subject you to the same tests and ratings.
  
  You don't get paid, so there is no bonus to lose, but you are being rated as a rater just the same, and if you don't pass the tests, then your 'opinion' will count less than somebody who rates with higher accuracy.
  
  Basically they are doing quality assurance of the QAP process, and they have to do it for the hopper on the site as well as the Mturk hopper, to assure the QAP's accuracy.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point - but I also think it is a waste of time for those who volunteer to go through the Hopper to deal with the fake material. I have seen 'hubs' on this site that have been published for years and were literally that bad, in one way or another. I will not be wasting my time there again.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - had good photos, and, until you actually read it a bit, you might think it was an okay hub.
  
  The snippets here are assorted - not the actual formatting - I just took a few of the best examples. I was laughing at the 'fibrillation' phrase, and nearly fell out of my chair at the 'menopausal smooth' part.
  
  Maybe the site could compile these and sell them in a humor book?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have no idea LOL.
  
  The book would sell, let me tell you. 99 percent of the test hubs aren't that blatant.. as a matter of fact I know I've had test hubs in the last few days but I have no idea which ones they were.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Since this was on the 'blind' Hopper, I have no idea who wrote it, or what other gems are lurking in their arsenal of 'hubs.'
  
  Do you think they will actually review and delete? It's one of the worst I have seen - hilarious, but really bad.
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  Page1 SEO tacticsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What a great example of web spam, the making sorbet hub you posted was, Marcy, If that is truly a featured hub, it should be removed instantly, they are deliberately keyword spamming the article to improve the CPC value of their page so advertisements that pay out more will be placed on the hub. It's also a great example (again) of why HP got smacked down by the Penguin update.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  mmmm menopause mango... my favorite flavor.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
I'm really hoping I don't get my butt in a sling for this. But 1. You know they are testing the turkers and 2. Hub quality really hasn't slipped that far.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well - based on the grammar (or whatever we want to call it) of the writer Izzy posted way early in this thread, certainly some hubs have slipped. And I've seen some that are just about this bad. But I don't like being toyed with. I am done with it now. It's one thing to 'test' people who are getting paid to rate hubs, and another to jerk around those of us who volunteer our time.
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  JayeWisdomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wasted more than a half hour on the Hopper today, trying to do my bit toward helping the community. No more--if the horrendous hubs I found there were only "tests." Forget it!
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jaye - what is even worse is the fact that so many of us have seen 'for real' hubs on the site that are equally as poorly written. So, like idiots, we are hopping away, trying to do our part to rid the site of junk, and wasting our time reading, flagging (complete with clips and comments) junk that is planted.
  
  That is an insult, and it is dishonest. We are not there to be 'tested.'
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Wow, I was trying to make things better and made them worse.

Yeah, I think I'm done here.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
I'm going to say this really quickly and then I'm going on a hiatus from the forums... I keep trying to help and it keeps making things worse...

Normal hub hoppers might see a control hub once in a while, I have no idea what the percentage is. I think they were put in there to keep turkers from abusing the system. There's a difference between a half an hour a day hopping hubs and 4-6 hours a day doing it.

I think they are good because they keep the system from being abused, but they also serve as learning tools. Hubs like the one you saw help identify what a spun article looks like, for those who have never seen one. It helps to be more careful.

Don't quit hopping because of them, because the very small percentage of the hubs that are control is almost insignificant in comparison to the number that are real and do need reviewed. Nobody's work is wasted, ever.

I do rate for MTurk and I feel like I am accomplishing something for HP. Yes I do get paid to do it, but I actually get paid less than the work I was doing when HP decided to run them through Amazon. I actually feel better doing these than I did working for transcription companies.

No situation is perfect but don't stop helping because of something that sucks a little when the greater good is well... greater.

Anyway, my two cents. I'm going down the rabbit hole now.
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SmartAndFunposted 12 years ago
At this point, we've all been told several times that flagging doesn't help. That's basically what I do when I hub hop -- I flag the stuff that needs to be deleted and I put through the rest. But since flagging doesn't help, why should I bother? It's a waste of my time if nothing at all is done about the junk that I flag.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HP has not said that flagging for TOS violations is of no use. They have commented that flagging for poor quality probably isn't, but that's all.
  
  Some hubbers have made the claim, but HP has not. Indeed a recent thread that saw a hub with violations was removed in just a few hours when the moderators worked through the flagging queue. Keep flagging those violations.
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  SmartAndFunposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do wish they'd take down some of the bad stuff people are flagging. There's some crazy stuff out there that I guess skates by TOS-wise. It's too bad for the rest of us that it gets to stay up.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They most certainly do. There is another thread about badly written hubs; the one being complained about was removed within hours. Not withing the few minutes that was being demanded, but it was gone by evening.
  
  Some will always get through the filters; no system will ever be perfect. And some will skate by the TOS, as you say, but then remember that the tighter the TOS the less freedom we have to write what we want. That's another gripe being aired; that you can't write whatever you want anymore while also complaining the next minute about the junk here. You can't have it both ways.
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duffsmomposted 12 years ago
Why do the forums always degrade into these angry, name calling diatribes? I came in because the topic interested me and watched the entire thread spiral into everyone being angry. This isn't about who is right or wrong, I just do not get the sniping at each other.
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adorablebabyposted 12 years ago
if you can't read their writing don't read it's that simple. Stop harassing them, maybe they are just trying to improve their writing or trying to make an income who care it's their life
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well I care.
  
  We are all affected by poor hubs. It pulls the whole site down in the eyes of Google. This site has been Google-slapped, and will continue to suffer so long as this stuff is allowed to remain.
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jellygatorposted 12 years ago
I don't know if I can agree with Izzy on that one. HP ranks fine, and those hubbers don't stay featured very long. Their hubs will go idle quickly if they don't generate traffic. There are quality control measures in place that seem to work pretty well overall. It's impossible for all of us make top position in Google with whatever we write, and while we all think we are fabulous writers, it just ain't so!

There is a backlog of hubpages that need to be evaluated. If you're concerned about the site's quality, you can help by hopping hubs.
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Here's a hub that bemoans this very subject.

http://laurencepjones.hubpages.com/hub/ … nguage-RIP
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Shariceyposted 12 years ago
Although I think some of the phrasing was a little harsh. Maybe we didn't need to know which country these people appear to be from but you bring up a good point and something that is probably a concern for a lot of hubbers. I have noticed Hubpages all over job search engine sites like simplyhired.com. It makes me wonder if Hubpages is more concerned about quantity and adding new accounts rather than quality control? What does that mean for the rest of us?
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poojasd7posted 12 years ago
Is the title of this Q&A correct in grammar?

"Influx of people who can't write proper English" should actually be "Influx of people who can't write in proper English". Correct me if I'm wrong here.

PS: Today, I understood the bias against Indians. :-) Well, I do write hubs just for fun and expression. I haven't even earned 2 dollars till now in hubapages. Yet, I continue to write here.

Dear English Purists, please give me an approval of my English writing skills. I need it very badly. :-)
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think both are acceptable. I was surprised by the defensive attitude of many who replied. I'm not immune to making mistakes. Five years ago my writing was worse, although back then I wasn't writing hubs. I was a mathematician and scientist, but decided a few years ago that writing satisfied me more. I’m still learning though. I revisited some essays I wrote only 18 months ago, finding plenty of ways to improve them. No doubt, in 18 months I will be able to improve my present work. No-one is perfect, and I never claimed to be.
  
  This thread wasn't meant to be about discriminating against Indians, it was about people who can't string a sentence together. I observed that many are from India. If voicing that observation makes me biased or prejudiced in some people's eyes, I'm sorry. However, there is real racism in the world to be concerned about.
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  poojasd7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, being a mathematician, you must be knowing that the generalization based upon a not-so-exhaustive sample of people's behavior(in this context, Indian hubbers) can not be the grounds for stereotyping them.
  Indians being ruled by Brits in the past, have a penchant for English language. And English being the global language, we try to get acquainted with it. Perhaps some people may not get the hang of it or they cut the corners to get some buck. But, that doesn't mean that everyone is the same.
  
  Apologies accepted. And racism has to be rooted out, even at a basic level( eg: this discussion on this forum). I feel(many would agree) that the topic of this discussion smacked of racism. Such small things do matter in framing/affecting the mindsets. The reason is that people do read such forums and get influenced.
  
  That's the very reason I clarified my points.
  
  Have a good day. :-)
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  LaurencePJonesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well `proper English' should at least be sought after on hubpages when too much poorly written content will get us all ranked down by Google. Apologies if I contributed to the way this thread turned out.
  
  Nothing for you to apologise about, Thomas. I think a lot of idiots have no real in interest in the nature of this and no doubt other hubs and love to hijack it by posting childish and irrelevant comments. These people are the ones I sought to expose. It doesn't apply to you.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, I see what you mean about the childish personal attacks. Sometimes it's difficult not to respond in anger.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Well, being a mathematician, you must be knowing that the generalization based upon a not-so-exhaustive sample of people's behavior(in this context, Indian hubbers) can not be the grounds for stereotyping them."
  
  Well more of a scientist actually. I didn't think I was stereotyping anyone. I observed that nearly all of the poorly written hubs and questions I was seeing were from Indian hubbers. If the majority were Americans or Africans or Australians I would have said so. It's not about being prejudiced or biased or stereotyping people, it's about reporting what you see. As a scientist, I was trained to make observations and spot trends. I realize that I don't always consider the social repercussions.
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  ateinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You tried to associate content written in "Bad English" with people from India . That is just not done, not for people of any nationality . Bad content is bad content, you don't have to associate it with people of a particular nationality or colour . There are more than one lakh(100,000) 50 thousand questions and more than six lakh 38 thousand answers , Please Check here . It would be interesting to know the amount of Q's & A's you sifted through to arrive at this conclusion ? Was it 200 or 2000 or 40,000 ? If you based your conclusion on first couple of pages then there isn't much to say about it . You claim to have a Bachelor's , Masters and a Doctorate . You are a Published author . Your articles/papers are peer-reviewed . This kind of half-baked erroneous conclusion coming from an academic is extremely disappointing .
  Nobody is being defensive . Pointing out a mistake is not being defensive .
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for visiting my profile. It's slightly hypocritical of you to conclude that I've made a "half baked erroneous conclusion" when you admit you don't know what research I did to arrive at that conclusion.
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  ateinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now you see it , don't you ? The shoe is on the other foot .
  The only source of data you mentioned is your stats page . I would really appreciate it if you were to put up the data/sample .
  While hub hopping I rarely come across hubs written by Indians . Am I to conclude that there are no Indian hubbers on HP ? That would be an half baked erroneous conclusion .
  
  Neways , the issue is closed for me now .
  
  Thank you and have a good day .
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WriteAngledposted 12 years ago
Is your question grammatically correct?
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Thomas Swanposted 12 years ago
For anyone offended by this thread. it wasn't my intention to cause offense. Nevertheless, from reading the recent replies, I realize it has. As someone with a liberal political and social stance, it's painful to be accused of prejudice and discrimination. I suppose I deserve it if I caused this pain in others. As a result I have reported this thread to the Hubpages team with the following comment:

"I realize I'm reporting my own thread here, but I am being accused of all kinds of discrimination and prejudice. Although my observation was never meant to offend anyone, it clearly has. I request that this thread be deleted or the original post be edited to remove all mentions of India. I can't seem to edit it anymore, and I would if I could. I discovered a trend regarding the poorly written content on hubpages, and didn't consider the repercussions of reporting that trend in the manner I did. Thank you."
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  dailytop10posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't please everybody my friend. I know you're simply doing something to improve this site and meant no offense. Instead of criticizing and leaving selfish comments, would it be nicer to work as a team and come up with a solution to this problem? I've came across with several hubs having tons of spelling and grammar errors and I simply flag them. That's the best thing that we can do for now. I really appreciate your intention yet others just can't understand. The issue here is not about pulling down Hubbers who are not native English writers but keeping this site safe from spammers and poorly written content. The author's citizenship doesn't matter.
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ComfortBposted 12 years ago
You touched on a relevant issue that needed to be discussed in the forum. It is unfortunate though that it took the turn it did as even I sensed that tone against a people in some of the responses. But you did a good thing. Now you can go back to the drawing board and find another approach.
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Thanks Thomas.
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  LaurencePJonesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  An interesting gesture, Thomas. It's commonplace these days to discriminate against those that are fat, old, disabled, gay, without so much as an apology. Conversely, those of another creed, colour or religion are protected like a dying species. Give them a hard stare or sneeze in their direction and you're a contemptible scoundrel assured of eternal damnation. Offering to put your head on the guillotine to allay your tortured conscience has taken PC madness to a new level.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why you're replying to me instead of Thomas, I don't know. You must have inadvertently sent that to me... again. You need to get that fixed.
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  Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  100% Agreed & I'm quite frankly, OVER-It!
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think this was about you... however the ppl who were mentioned specifically might have been hurt by an entire thread dedicated to calling them out... and Thomas did something unselfish on their account to make it right again. Why not allow that to take place peacefully and then move on?
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  Rosco Runmukavichposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol... I don't say much that matters, but one thing I can't stand is to see someone else get hurt. You can walk all over me and I will take it, but I can't abide seeing someone else slighted.
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  LaurencePJonesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  'Why you're replying to me instead of Thomas, I don't know.'
  
  Should have read: ''I don't know why you're replying to me instead of Thomas.'
  
  Or still better: 'I don't know why you're replying to me rather than Thomas.'
  
  You need to smarten up if you're going to post on a thread about people's standard of English.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wonder if the standard changes from person to person and region to region... maybe we could get the queen to preside over this forum and teach us all a thing or two. I s'pose my head would have already been removed a few posts back.
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  Rosco Runmukavichposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  She does seem to use that U ubiquitously.
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Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years ago
This thread was not intended to "Harass" any group of people and has not harassed anyone. It has not launched itself outside of this forum like a guided missile in search of the nearest, Indian or Asian person who hasn't mastered the English language or slaughters it all together. Like it or not, the group(s) of English-as-a-second-language “hubbers” noted, do stand-out! This thread was an observation made by many and broached by one, with the guts to do so and I find the over-sensitivity by some commenters, offensive.
Words like, "harass" or "racist" are quite weighty and should be used with great restraint. There are many other places or sites throughout the world-wide-web, where people can go to practice their use of English and learn to become more effective writers. HP, is not that place! Every last person on this planet should be striving for better, daily, but the "writers" that have landed here, should be those that can put forth ideas and information that are easily read and understood as this is a "Writing Community" and not an online English course with the side benefit of making a buck! I would love to get paid to have others educate me to effectively use a foreign language but I live in the real world where that is not an option, for me anyway.
As far as the comment, "maybe they're trying to make an income, who cares, it's their life," there is another way to look at that, which has been brought up repeatedly within this thread. I care very much, that anyone who may be trying to gain income could be bogging down my ability--to make an income. The unintelligible hubs being published and receiving "Featured" status--are and do, pull-down and hold-down the HP site as a whole. This means that no matter how much quality content that a truly, good writer churns-out, their material will not be able to garnish the type of acknowledgment or earnings deserved.
English is my first language and unfortunately, I have not yet "mastered" it, however, I have cared enough about writing, to make sure I'm not just throwing words together or copying pieces of paragraphs from here, there and everywhere to slap-up a hub and make a few bucks! It is because I care enough about the art of writing that I have come here and I'm saddened to find that there are so many people publishing on HP that don't take pride in this craft. It is insulting to "read" some of the utter garbage that has been pointed to throughout this thread and it is angering to know that no matter how much I care about what I choose to share here on HP or how effectively I do so, this mumbo-jumbo will sit next to my work and possibly be judged, on a grander scale, as being on the same level or even garner a higher "score." That is wounding to the ego and to add the effect of bringing my potential earnings down, is another, fiery-slap! I have not produced much in my time here but I don’t find the current situation as encouraging.
I don't care what part of the world you are from, but if you are here to write, then you should arrive with the sense that you are capable of doing so. If you find yourself greatly lacking or if seasoned-writers are telling you as much, then you should find another vehicle allowing you to improve your English skills, so that upon your return, you will show a modicum of respect for those here with a true appreciation for the written word. And if you can't do that, then go write on a website rooted in your first language! This topic is one that I feel requires a great deal more discussion and hopefully, solution. Rant over!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. They should replace my opening post with this.
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Anishpatposted 12 years ago
If "the author's citizenship does not matter" why use a sentence like "hubpages in danger of being over-run by writers from India" ??? Instead of by" people who write poor hubs" or "use poor grammar." etc.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct, those were poorly chosen words and stirred up a lot of strife and hurt, however he apologized, took the blame for those words and went to lengths to make things right the best he could. We should move on imo.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He took it out of context by removing the end of the sentence. He also removed the start of the sentence which frames the whole thing as a question anyway.
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Uh... there really was someone there I was talking to earlier.
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  SmartAndFunposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, I saw it earlier.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Im glad, I was starting to wonder myself.
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dedpix3lposted 12 years ago
Write English properly
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *poet
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose not everyone has heard of the term "proper English" then.
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sweetzaraposted 12 years ago
Either "write English properly" or "write in proper English."
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is getting tiresome. If you're not willing to look up the term, don't try to correct someone when they use it:
  
  http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/pr … glish.aspx
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Since "proper" is an adjective, it can be used to qualify the noun "English"
  Since "to write English" is an acceptable construction, "to write proper English" is also acceptable.
  
  Proper (adjective) as listed in Merriam Webster
  Definition 4 : very good ; excellent
  Definition 7a : strictly accurate ; correct
  
  "Proper English" in either of the above senses is desirable.
  
  This type of English, on a hub present in the bowels of this site, is not desirable:
  "Increasingly, the airline is expanding from one country to another, from one contains another, and all this in order to best meet the needs of displaced people: tourists, researchers, men of business ... everyone to some extent feel concerned if they are traveling a distance, more or less important. Looking for ways to get low cost Mumbai Delhi air tickets?"
  Moreover, exact copies of this have been placed on eight other web sites.
  
  Yes, before anyone else makes the point, this hub is not featured. However, it is this type of garbage that has resulted in good writers being badly hurt by the idling policy and QAP. Had this author and similar not been allowed to come on board in the beginning, such draconian measures would not now be necessary.
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Anishpatposted 12 years ago
I'm sorry Thomas. I guess we non-native English speakers just have to get use to an influx of British terms here on Hubpages!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, if this wasn't an English speaking site, I might have been wrong to use the English language on it. Thankfully, I didn't spam rubbish all over an Indian site.
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sweetzaraposted 12 years ago
Lol Anishpat! Thank God! At least you used "proper English." Or did you? I'm confused.
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WriteAngledposted 12 years ago
The Merriam Webster dictionary, to which I refer above, is published in the United States.
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Anishpatposted 12 years ago
Sorry about the typo Thomas, please don't take it personally. You are right, thankfully you don't spam rubbish all over Indian sites. At least I have not seen any evidence of that. But, I hope you don't mean that I spam rubbish on "English" sites.

And thankfully, India fought and won independence some 55 years ago. Otherwise, people from England (not you) would be doing far worse things than spamming rubbish all over Indian sites. Cheers!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No I didn't mean that because I didn't say it. I didn't say this is an English site either. It's an English speaking site. I'm also not sure what the British occupation of India has to do with anything. I can't stand patriotism, and I can't stand what my country did in the past.
  
  If you're not a "writer from India who can't write in proper English" then this thread wasn't even referring to you. You seem to write well enough. Seeing as you're Indian, I would have thought you'd be more concerned with the large number of Indian hubbers who do use this site to spam rubbish. These people only serve to destroy the reputation of those who can write well, such as yourself.
  
  I picked India because most of the spammers I've seen are from there. Before starting this thread, I had just finished putting in about 10 copyright infringement notices for sites that had stolen my work. All of the infringing individuals were Indian. Coupled with what I've seen on hubpages, the trend was clear. I'm sorry you felt offended by this. It wasn't referring you to. I hope you at least understand why I mentioned India now.
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  SunSevenposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can you guess which are the top 10 worst spam producing countries?
  
  India is in the 9th position (1st March,2013 Spamhaus Project). See Here
  
  May be they do not have the HP data sample that you have used to reach this conclusion.
  
  Best Regards
  SunSeven
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spam is just one problem from many. It was also used as an adjective ("spam rubbish") in the first instance. People can spam perfectly written masterpieces too.
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that website's definition of spam really applies to what we object to on HubPages. They are quite obviously talking about email spam: This is their definition:
  
  The word "Spam" as applied to Email means "Unsolicited Bulk Email".
  
  What Thomas was objecting to was very badly written hubs, with terrible grammar that makes them almost unintelligible, that destroy traffic for good writers because of a Google penalty.
  
  Your link is totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
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Anishpatposted 12 years ago
Thomas,

I do understand your overall concern about low quality hubs and how that affects all hub writers. Believe me, I'm concerned about that too. What I don't undersand is: why single out India.

When you say “…by writers from India who can’t write proper English,” it comes across as “writers from India can’t write proper English.” It’s almost like saying: “…by Americans who are insensitive” rather than “…by some (or “a few” or “most not all” etc.) Americans who are insensitive.”
Now I know that you may not have intended on saying “all” writers from India can’t write "proper English," but it comes across as though you truly mean "all" writers from India (and nowhere else).

The problem is that when something like this goes unchallenged, it perpetuates new and dangerous stereotypes, i.e. Indians = bad writers OR Indians = spammers.

Again, I am sure this was not your intention and therefore a bit more clarity would have avoided all of this back and forth argument.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I explained why I mentioned India. A large majority of the poorly written hubs, questions, and answers that I have seen on this site are from Indian hubbers. Then, after filling in 10 copyright infringement notices against people that just happened to have Indian names... lets just say I was a bit angry.
  
  However, I understand and agree. That's why I reported my own thread and requested that it be deleted or changed to remove all mention of India (see posts above).
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  Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thomas, I must say, you're holding-up quite well for a dead horse!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  From looking at the nationality of the people replying today, I get the feeling this has been shared somewhere, and I'm in for more angry replies.
  
  Perhaps they'll read my notice if I put it in red text!
  
  For anyone offended by this thread. it wasn't my intention to cause offense. I made an observation that was based on many months of looking at poorly written content on hubpages. Nevertheless, from reading the recent replies, it's clear that my opening post could easily cause offense. As someone with a liberal political and social stance, it's painful to be accused of prejudice and discrimination. I suppose I deserve it if I caused this pain in others. As a result I have reported my own thread to the Hubpages team, requesting that it be deleted or changed to remove any mention of India.
  
  For anyone who thinks I claim to be perfect, and would like to question the use of the term 'proper English':
  
  Look `proper English' up on google. It's a common term that is grammatically correct. I never claimed to be perfect. I make mistakes. This isn't one of them.
  
  I'd rather not have to say any more!
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  ComfortBposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I feel for you Thomas. I really do.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks ComfortB, I'm not sure what more I can say really.
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dedpix3lposted 12 years ago
While grammatically correct, telling someone to write proper English, does not imply the same thing as telling someone to write Englisih properly. Therefore, you are still incorrect. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So I said proper English but you think I meant to say "write English properly"? Simple answer to that: no, I said what I meant to say. I also had to link you to the meaning of what I said, so it's a bit rich of you to try to educate me on it now.
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  dedpix31, I would suggest that you fix your own bio, before you try to correct Thomas' English. The first sentence of your bio is:
  
  I'm a poety, lyricist, and short story writer.
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dedpix3lposted 12 years ago
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/ … g_cats.gif
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Anishpatposted 12 years ago
Hi aa lite. While you are on the topic of correcting grammer and punctuation on bios, check out the last sentence of your own bio:
"...frogs and geckos,computer games and TV shows."
Notice: no space after geckos,
But now I'm just nitpicking. Don't get me wrong, writers make mistakes. Even if they are elite writers or in the apprenticeship program. Poor writing has nothing to do with ethnicity or nationality. Thats all.
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for pointing that typo out. I agree that poor writing has nothing to do with ethnicity or nationality.
  
  Incidentally being an Apprentice means exactly that. It is a "training program" to help people become better writers, although the focus is more on writing search-friendly hubs, and providing media that keep readers longer on the page, rather than avoiding typos. There is nothing elite about it.
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  Anishpatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  aa lite, I was not suggesting that there is anything elite about the apprenticeship program. I was referring to hubbers who are a part of 'HubPages Elite.' They have a little "e" on the bottom left of their profile. The program may have been discontinued by HubPages.
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sen.sush23posted 12 years ago
Poor writing skills do not mean 'Indian'. For many Indians, English is their first language, and for many native English speakers, writing is not easy with a handicap in both grammar and spelling. As an editor, I could be employed 24 hours each day, correcting the grammar and typos of many popular writers on HubPages, and they are definitely not Indians. I do not think I contributed much to this forum, but I just meant to say that branding issues with 'nationalities' is trying not to look deep into the matter. It is a sign of poor intellect, inability to solve problem and signs of lack of confidence!
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You should have read a little further. Nearly everyone that even insinuated that has apologized, saying that picking on Indian writers was not the purpose or thought of the thread. Just poor use of English wherever they're from.
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  "Is hubpages in danger of being over-run by writers from India who can't write proper English? I went to a hubpages question yesterday, and half the answers were from Indian hubbers who didn't understand the question but felt compelled to answer it anyway." ..
  I must say, that is a rather covert and circuitous way of not "picking on Indian writers"!!!
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have read the forum messages. I must thank all, other than Indians, who came up and spoke a word of protest, saying that rather than Indians, poor writing should be the concern. If the question has been modified, let this thread be abandoned.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I truly don't think there was an intent to blame all Indians. It came out that way, probably of disgust at one example, but no one is stupid enough to think that all Indians can't use English or that they are the only one's that can't.
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I must say, that is a rather covert and circuitous way of not "picking on Indian writers"!!!"
  
  Im pretty sure you have a firmer grasp of the English language than 99% of the Americans and Brits here.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You picked that up too? Hard to miss, although I don't know about the 99%. Maybe 98%.
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LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago
Because of the complaints we have about poorly written hubs, good hubs being idled, etc and HP not doing anything about hubs with poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc, I did some research. What I have found is that Google does not care about poor spelling etc. In fact, humans from Google do nor read content. Their algorithm is set of not for looking at quality of the content, but how linking is done, about ad placement, about how traffic is obtained through links, other methods used to get traffic to sites, blogs etc. Seriously, if we stop and think about it, where is the quality content, numerous well written articles found on Twitter, My Space, Facebook, etc? Where is their quality content? Google is more concerned about how sites are manipulating the search engines to get on front page. Some methods they look for is links that are in hidden text which the human visitor cannot see, but Google crawlers can see.

Maybe since Google does not check for poor content, and poor spelling, etc, this is why HP does not care. Maybe this is why somebody with low traffic on a perfectly, well written hub gets slammed by HP while the trash written about the newest video game that is getting traffic slides by.

Remedy: There are plenty of article submission sites that don't want poorly written articles on their sites. So give HP your junk, and give the best to the rest.
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  aa liteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't completely agree with your analysis of Google. Google doesn't care very much about a page having a few typos, spelling or grammar mistakes. However, what we are talking about here, are hubs that are written so badly, they are basically unreadable.
  
  If somebody comes to a page like that from Google search, they will most probably hit the "back" button right away. This Google can detect, and short dwell times on pages is something that it does take into consideration when rating sites.
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Sarra Garrettposted 12 years ago
You guys are still talking about this? Really? I'd be more concerned with people who can't start a forum without typos ....... Isn't there a better way to spend your time other than picking in the Indians? Hubpages has most of it's contributors from America, India and Pakistan.
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Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago
Fortunately, there are some of us <ahem> who are custodians of the English language and grant freely of their time to assist those from the colonies. Indeed, only the other day, a young new Hubber asked me for help in their phrasing and positioning of their colon. I was unable to comply because I have a life but there are many who are plenty up themself from the Aisles of England.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *giggle*
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
Ha wow. I read this entire thread? hub? It's a bit humorous don't you think? It reminds me of people spamming me in Facebook with political hype. Ok, what I see is Indians, but also Americans. Hello I am American, and I may not write proper Brittish English, but my American English is spot on. Yes there is two forms for those of other lands who maybe haven't learned this.

Of all said in this topic I am more offended by the copy/paste of the pdf's originally written on. I have been flagged one time on my Arcticle 4 of my Sebastian series. I am not a high ranked writer according to the system here. That really is ok with me. I also do not earn money, and for now that is alright for me. I am still learning the system, and the how to do its.

I am upset those duplicate articles are being allowed to remain, and being allowed to earn money. This is very upsetting. I have to admit. While I spend a month on trying to understand why I am flagged, since I can not find a proper explanation to why. I also try to rewrite the piece in question to fit the rules. Often times removing content I thought was pertinent to the topic I actually wrote on. Even with American English as my primary I struggle on this piece, but to find out someone else is just allowed to copy/paste. This is just a real slap in the face. It as well makes me feel like the butt of a English languages joke for even trying.

I do not care about the race of a person. I have learned to write three other languages poorly over the years. So I know this struggle. I do care that the rules are not applied equally! I do care I have to remove pertinent information from my articles, but they get to completely ignore the rules!
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Talking of copied content, I did some hubhopping yesterday and this morning, and am finding copied content in the hopper.
  
  Could HP comment as to whether or not they are still running the copied content software?
  
  These copies I found did not come from PDF files, but from normal Google content.
  
  One hub was a direct copy of a user review on Amazon for a certain product.
  
  I was suspicious because it was for a product that is a little out of date now - an iPad 2 if I remember correctly.
  
  This is unfair to expect hoppers or mTurkers to run a few lines by Google search too, as well as rate hubs.
  
  Oh and yes, the word 'British' only has one T.
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
Actually British can be Brittish as well depending on the slang. To claim only one way is to claim perfect writing and linguistics... Are either of you two claiming that? I certainly had not...

"Brittish
English
Adjective

Brittish

Alternative spelling of British."

I do agree the copying and pasting of other articles defeats the purpose I even joined. I mean I was lured with the original content idea.
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  Judi Beeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, we British tend to think it's a spelling mistake worthy of mockery:
  
  http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2012/04/2 … g-mistake/
  
  But what do we know?
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Middle English, which is given as the etymology for that variant, was left behind some time ago!
  
  The only other definition available is not totally believable. It is recorded by someone who is obviously semi-literate. Moreover, the meaning is offensive.
  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brittish
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Touché! Nicely done, WA.
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
lol Only proving the difference as I stated. American English versus British. See I adjusted for you Brits. It's all only proving what I originally wrote. Blow the picking on English, and care more about this plagiarism act!
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  Judi Beeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Never came across it in the States either - graduated from high school over there (admittedly a long time ago, but not in the Middle English era)
  
  I do care about the copying issue - this just caught my eye!
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
Let's see it's in Wiki...
wiktionary.xxx/wiki/Brittish

The free Dictionary....
thefreedictionary.xxx/Brittish

An online encyclopedia...
omniglot.xxx/writing/brittish.htm

A switz site
brittish.ch/23425

Twitter...
twitter.xxx/search?q=%23brittish

I popular film site...
imdb.xxx/list/t0uA3-ABJjM/

Also an educational site about...
indoeuro.bizland.xxx/tree/celt/brittish.html

(Link specifiers removed for forum rules. Everyone else can figure that tidbit out.)

Brittish versus British is all over. Including where I am from. If I had joined this site to become a Brit I wouldn't mind all of you making sport out of this, but in truth I find it most pathetic. As well as disturbing. In my opinion the only good thing taken from this entire topic was that of the plagiarism. I seriously think the community needs to focus on that, not trying to force everyone to become Brittish.

For your information no one language is perfect. I mean I have friends from Britain, who say some things that here would get you arrested. Such as "I am running out for a pot" In your land it means a pot roast most times, but here it means only illegal substance.

I do feel if we will pick on other peoples linguistics, first we should consider if we are perfect. None are perfect or we wouldn't be on hubpages picking on others. Instead we would actually living. Much like I was before this very post. Being disabled, and reflooring my house myself isn't easy...

I honestly find this topic quite offensive, but have tried to bring it back to the important...

That would be this plagiarism. Focus folks, or open yourself up to criticisms world wide, which can be far more cruel than what this little thread has been to anyone who is here to express, and not be perfect. Do you honestly think you look better for picking on people, than to actually making important efforts? Shall we give up in the world on plagiarisms so that you can pick on peoples minor differences? Should all people who are not perfect Brits and do not want to be, leave hubpages just so you can feel superior? Well what do you think that will do to hubpages worth to the rest of the world?

Psst bravo lorlie6! Bravisimo!
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! I checked out real dictionaries. I would not call a Wiki, other free Internet dictionaries, Twitter or a film database authoritative, even less so a site that calls itself "indoeuro bizland" ROFLMAO
  
  I don't know what a "switz" site is...
  
  In fact, looking at the most authoritative source of all, the Oxford English Dictionary, a variant of Brittish is only cited once in a source dating from 1398:
  J. Trevisa tr. Bartholomaeus Anglicus De Proprietatibus Rerum ... Fraunce..eendeþ in þe northe at Brittisshe occean
  
  Otherwise we have, for example:
  "OE .... Ða ðe beoð gehadede fram Scyttiscum preostum oððe bisceopum, oððe fram Bryttiscum.
  OE Anglo-Saxon Chron. (Tiber. B.i) anno 508, Her Cerdic & Cynric ofslogan anne brittiscne
  c1275 (1200) Laȝamon Brut (Calig.) (1978) l. 14871 Austine..mænde to..þan kinge of Æst-Angle, hu Bruttissce .... "
  
  British, with one t, seems to have been the recognised form since 1573, when what are now obsolete spellings were still being used for other words, as in:
  "Breuiary of Britayne f. 89v, So many puissant kynges, so many inuincible captaynes so many noble Roman Emperours, spronge forth of the British bloud"
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes and there is a great story in American history of dead British hymns being found in the mountains of where I live, and parts of our mountains unexplored or hampered by known men. Get over it. It's a valued manner to write. As well you missed the point in your attack, so no surprise.
  
  I provided those to show many do use that form, not that it is what is proscribed by someone else's ideal of perfection. You can go to what ever literary place you consider perfect as you want, but it will never replace fact.
  
  Fact : Just because you are not used to it, doesn't mean some where someone doesn't use it properly.
  
  Creative writing isn't dictated by narrow views. The best productions in history were against narrow views. So which are you? A narrow view, or the best possible artist?
  
  It just so happens most of my writing in my history is from the renaissance and prior era.
  
  So I am what I have done... thank you for only continuing to prove it. Does it make me any less correct? Nope only proves this entire argument is pathetically based on narrow views. Not on what is best.
  
  Now focus people, Plagiarism!
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  Suzy Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol Read the first posts in the first page... the plagiarism was there, and what I focus on, since it was the most important aspect of the thread, but you are right. Surprised I say that?
  
  Hey your writing is your own, and not subject for me to judge. Enjoy it! I enjoy the creativity. Just do not expect people to understand it. I certainly don't, but am happy when it does.
  
  I look forward to seeing your future pieces.
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  Suzy Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not contrary at all. In fact I am quite clear. You however are just a troll. What is the matter your great life is that boring? However I see you for what you are, and have a life to live, and more writings to write, so I have added you to the ignore list already, plus have made my first report, yay you did it all by your lonesome.
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  Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oooh - Crumcakes... did you see that episode of Dr. Phil too?
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  lorlie6posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, now I just look insane as she deleted her earlier post! I do believe Suzy Crumcakes had asked A.A., "Why are you being so contrary? Were you potty-trained at gunpoint?" And I know good 'n' well that I saw Dr. Phil say that on an episode last week. A.A., I didn't realize we had the ability to put anyone on an "ignore" list. Thank-you for bringing this to my attention.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  SSanctum she didn't delete. She was removed. I waited to make public comments, exploring the options first. I stumbled on the black list option, and it does work. So you are welcome, and I was happy to share. It's under edit profile. This entire topic is very dangerous. If we look back to the actual activity of moderation of the HP team. I feel much better knowing they are on the job, and I assume this means to the on site plagiarisms as well. I do offer them appreciation. I'm off to a meeting, and then more writing.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Someone may have reported her/him?/it?
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  lorlie6posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Removed? Do you mean banned? Hope so...
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  Wuzup Jonesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not very friendly?
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  lorlie6posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Questionable! Yet crumbcakes riled me up big time...
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh that's nice! Do you prefer the Shakespearean or the Spenserian sonnet, or are you perhaps a supporter of Petrarch?
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer Heaney...
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You said: "It just so happens most of my writing in my history is from the renaissance and prior era"
  
  Shucks, Heaney was born 300 or so years too late to fit your stated period of interest.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WA I know you are enjoying trying to put words in my mouth, but I did not say my favorite writers or style were from that era. Careful... there seems to be a lacking showing.
  
  There seems a real lacking in comprehension abroad. Psst I know who Heaney is, it's my family name.
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
Well I wouldn't say king either. What two writers write the same way? Does Jk Rowling write the same as Poe? I do not think so. Yet both are amazing writers in their own right. I certainly will not let some computer tell me what is perfect either. After all computers and programming get errors and bugs all the time, and they are supposed to be more perfect than people...

I am not offended at the German musical group Rammstein for using Amerika. Being as I am American I should be? Well I am not. Most of the groups lyrics are on a tiny portion of our real cultures reality, but it is their art, and I have to respect that.

In reading other peoples work I fail to get a real appreciation it is our job to understand what they really meant. I am not from Texas, and never was there past a visit, so I wouldn't expect to be able to accurately describe their language. It is a different dialect than I use too. Perhaps if people realized more that nothing is perfect. I mean the 'British' language is derived of other languages. I could send you lists of words that were proper, but the culture is across the board forgotten. Does it make the words less authentic?

Does abaculus mean any less than a mosaic tile? No it doesn't, it's just we are not used to hearing it.

Plagiarism should be fought uniformly. As it could be us plagiarized later for items we write to make someone an easy buck, pound, credit, or any other terminology for currency.

Psst these forums are crazy. When posting I can see some posts, and I can't see when just reading the thread.
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AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years ago
I wouldn't know...

You obviously do, so please educate us in your first piece.
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  Suzy Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So if you will not write for hubpages, why are you here? Just to troll?
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  Suzy Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who you calling a wanna be?
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This isn't yahoo forums. You all need to grow up. It's sad to read these comments from fully grown adults.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You meant me there?
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I meant the troll Suzy. Who joins a site to insult everyone on it or being on the site? Don't feed the trolls Beth.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do I know you're not a troll? Homer is not someone I usually take seriously.
  And if you meant Suzie, senor, you shouldn't have replied to me.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I replied to everyone. Don't feed the trolls. Like mogwies (if that's how you spell it) it makes them even more aggressive. Anyway, I'm on my iPad so ignore the bad grammar, incorrect clicks and any other wording that makes no sense. It auto corrects. But I just want to say, don't feed the trolls.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol plus 100 for you! Bravo! Allow me to share some Seamus Heaney ~ From The Frontier Of Writing ; this describes very well what is happening here...
  
  "So you drive on to the frontier of writing
  where it happens again. The guns on tripods;
  the sergeant with his on-off mike repeating
  
  data about you, waiting for the squawk
  of clearance; the marksman training down
  out of the sun upon you like a hawk.
  
  And suddenly you're through, arraigned yet freed,
  as if you'd passed from behind a waterfall
  on the black current of a tarmac road
  
  past armor-plated vehicles, out between
  the posted soldiers flowing and receding
  like tree shadows into the polished windscreen. "
  
  What this piece from a real paid artist and rather famous one, and highly awarded. Why would an artist write about his field? Why would he compare public writing to a war zone? Why would he say exactly what you feel? Gee I guess because it holds a glimmer of truth.
  
  To all artists here. Do not let the trolls and hacks discourage you. The most famous of writers in our own era know. You can not let the cynics and know it all types stop you, for if this type had it's way. We would not have good art for ourselves or our futures.
  
  We can not all be spoiled in life with past generations paying our way, and our trying to steal the glory from the past. We all start some where. This is just one more place to start, for real art doesn't come with a money symbol, it comes with our hearts and lives.
  
  No one can determine who or what will be great. Where the next big thing may come from. Where it came from a dying town in America with Eminem. Or a war torn land in Ireland with Heaney. Next it could come from Hubpages. One can never know, so do not mind trolls. They are only here to try to make themselves feel better. Why? That answer is obvious.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  War torn land? Hahaha. Please. Don't be so offensive. You might be referring to Northern Ireland? Even so, I would hardly say war torn. Take a trip to Ireland, the neutral country . You would soon see its far from war torn. I just laughed out loud that's just silly.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By war torn I spoke to the battle of his life, the battle between industrialism and farming/ranching of cattle. Forgive me sometimes I forget not everyone knows Heaney.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh haha! Because I just met someone in Wisconsin today who thought Ireland was at war Seamus Heaney was a great poet and one of my personal favorites,. bogland is a thing of beauty.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah wonderful. I thought the comparison was obvious. Eminem was from Detroit. A city dying due to the end of industrialism. Then Seamus Heaney is known for his life battles over industrialism. Cheeky me failed. Yes I really write just as crafty and speak it too. Annoying isn't it?
  
  Believe it or not. Growing up so far from Ireland. I hadn't heard about my name sake until college. My expressive writing instructor turned me on to the name. I did research and found a shocking realization. I have been a fan ever since. I am many far years from those days. I wish I could write as amazingly, but realize somethings just are not in the blood. I still enjoy his amazing and complex ability.
  
  I know a lot of us Americans are poorly taught. We hear of the IRA, and think those news scenes we see old reels about are still happening. We really are clueless for the most part. It wasn't until some Irish friends taught me, that I realized how bad we really are here. lol It wasn't until two years ago I learned the truth about Detroit! Oh and I would love to go to Ireland. It's where my family is from, and I would love to reconnect and all of that!
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A huge number of Irish people are horribly negative and almost torture themselves with artistry. Thus the name 'the island of saints and scholars'. No matter what the circumstances, an Irish person will make art of some form out of it.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Faith and begorra! Heaven help us if the Irish should see your post. It's not too late to delete.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am Irish.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I like me an irishman.
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  Katie Krumkakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Katie Krumkakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Katie Krumkakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize that she/he is goading you into a personal attack so you'll end up getting banned yourself?
  
  Maybe you should just ignore her/him.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Honestly I do know that. If I get a forum ban. I am ok with that. If I get a site ban. If I earned it I am ok with that. I believe the moderators have some more insight into matters than most realize. Though I did take the advice, and the individual is black listed. To make it easier on me, and I am reading other hubs now with joy.
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  Katie Krumkakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Trolls don't bother me much. And when they're not pure evil, they can be sort of funny.
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Will all the trolls please take one step to the left?
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Blasted! Here I was researching in another tab about this very topic for a new piece Im writing... I don't want to move left. I will loose my research tab!
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  (gasp!) I didn't realize you were a troll too!
  Ok, fine. Stand there in the middle by yourself.
  Has this thread been abandoned? I hope so. What an unpleasant one it turned out to be.
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  AccumulateAmericaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *Pulling out the modern dictionary for the word troll. Reading it closely. I look up, and down.*
  Thank you for the middle. I certainly didn't start out as a troll, but I think I may have become one. Less on the offensive content I think at least.
  
  I agree I do hope this topic is abandoned. Past the plagiarism bit. I think that needs serious attention.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe we could make this a hub about the Irish. I want to go to Ireland very badly too. Only no one say anything about the Irish... we have seen that that will turn out poorly.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Forget it. The trolls have stolen all those pots of gold already. All that's left is the rainbow, and we have those every time the sprinklers come on.
  
  Unless you're looking for your Lucky Charms?
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, not the lucky charms Its like making fun of an American over everything ending in dog ie chili dog, corn dog, hot dog, and how dogs in turn are related to obesity
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How about a troll dog?
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wqaindiaposted 12 years ago
Thomas Swan:
With due apologies from the HubTeam I am constrained to suggest you to read my Hub
<link snipped>
HP is a free expression platform and it has sound policies and quality control measures to keep the wrong stuff at bay. You need to tender an unconditional apology for having used the words Indian Hubbers.
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  cfinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that it does seem odd to single out an entire nationality of people.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the comment wqaindia. I have made such an apology further up this page (it's the colorful post I was hoping you'd notice).
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll get shot down for this - but I don't think you needed to apologise at all Thomas.
  
  It is a fact of life that many ESL hubbers struggle with the intricacies of the English language, and many don't even bother to try.
  
  The fact is that a huge number of Indians are joining this site and bringing it down by posting badly spun, copied or nonsensical hubs, probably more so than any other nation.
  
  If those Indian hubbers who do post good stuff take offence, then they are not looking in the right place to see what their fellow-countrymen are posting.
  
  Frankly I'd be embarrassed if folk from my country were doing that.
  
  There are some very good Indian hubbers here, but there are a lot more really bad ones.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, no apologies necessary, in my opinion also, Izzy! There has to be a line drawn somewhere if indeed a content site wants to retain some self-respect. Otherwise it offers more gibberish than anything else.
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  Sphinxs Sanctumposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hear, hear!
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Im curious if you would have asked them to edit your original post had you not received any flack for it.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't have known it could cause offense without the flack.
  
  It needs to be changed because a lot of people were clearly offended by it.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure fixing your forum screw-ups is actually part of their job. They can't "quality control" everyone who says something that gets them slammed in a forum. Buck up, you've learned a valuable lesson from this... maybe.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Had I known Melissa was writing the same thing at the same time only way more succinctly, I wouldn't have bothered.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So now you're saying they should leave the initial post intact to teach me a lesson? This isn't about me... I thought you disliked the language used in the first post as much as anyone. This is about the people who were offended by it, and continue to be for as long as that post remains.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just think it's odd that you seem irked at the admin as if they did something wrong when in fact all they did was not change a word of what you wrote. You seem to lack humility sir, but what do I know.
  
  And mark, I don't know what a "cont" is... maybe you misspelled?
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that's why I deleted the post. I realised all too late that certain people would jump all over it, but then that's happening a lot to me lately.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was talking to Mark... i addressed him. I think he meant a different word.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I should have realised, though you were replying to me, hence the confusion. Also without a capital letter the word has a meaning that would have been accurately used in that context (e.g. mark my words).
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  haha, I spose you're right... I get a bit lazy after Ive been on here too long... the capitals and punctuation go straight out the window... don't tell anyone.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I was saying that running around fixing each poster's statements would be a full-time job. With some posters it would be a full time one-on-one job.
  
  You're mad at the wrong people.
  
  You said it and now people are offended. They seem to be offended at you. Learn from it... or don't. But now you have the knowledge that you are going to have to deal from the fallout of any statement you make on these boards... all on your own. It's a valuable lesson both for the forums and in real life.
  
  I wasn't really offended by your first statement so much as I thought it was wrong. My English is passable and I'm not from India, so there really wasn't much for me to be offended about.
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  Thomas Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just echoing the Indian Hubbers who have asked for all mention of `Indian Hubbers' to be removed. But it seems I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Don't give me the condescending life lesson talk please...
  
  It was also a reply to Beth. I wasn't saying you were offended, I didn't even use that word, but if you thought it was wrong then you did `dislike' it. That's the word I used.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can call me all sorts of crap, but for some reason I get offended for those who might be perceived to be an "underdog" or a minority. (Hopefully that didn't come across poorly.) Ok well this has been fun... but not in the laugh out loud way... I gotta go to work. Take care everyone. Thomas, Im sure this will all die down soon... take care.
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Vellurposted 12 years ago
I am an Indian and am proud to be one. Check out my hubs.
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