The Internet and sites like YouTube are currently full of warningm messages and videos about a proposed worldwide mandatory WHO Swine Flu vaccination programme later this year and many people are speaking out against it. David Icke has made a video entirely devoted to the subject urging everyone to reject this vaccination at all costs. Dr Rima E Laibow MD of Health Freedom and Natural Solutions Foundation has proposed Self-shielding as a third option that people should have. The others are accept the jab, reject the jab and be punished as a criminal.
I am hoping it doesn't come to this but if it does then I reject having the vaccination!
What do people here think?
The day my government "forces" me to get an inoculation will be the day I go out and by a gun and prepare for the next Revolution...
Or put another way, the day the government chooses to forget my 4th amendment rights is the day I remind them of my 2nd amendment rights
wow I was thinking about this, I didn't know there was support for my claim.
mandatory shots, is this legal? Can they force you to get one?
I'm Totally against anything mandatory as well. Controls are way too many in this world already. I love N.America for the freedoms we "used" to have.
I've gotten flu shots twice. Both those years, I got a version of flu the shot didn't cover, and I was sick for a month. Never had a flu shot since, and I seemed to be fine.
Not that flu shots aren't necessary and don't save lives. For those who do need them, I'm all for it. For some, it just isn't a good thing, or necessary.
'Scuze me, but mandatory? I'm thinkin' a big, serious NO on this one.
I will be a criminal. I am pretty sure I am healthy enough to fight off the flu. I know its different for peopel wiht comprimised immune systems, the benefits outwiegh the risks and all. But I really think, part of why we have all these new "superbugs" is all the mass vaccines, against a virus. The whole point of a virus is that it can MUTATE!!!!!So, vaccines are forcing them to mutate into something to get around the vaccine...who knows what will be next? Girrafe flu?
Run Away Run Away! Killer Girrafes! LOL
Reminds me of the rabbits in Monty Pythons, Holy Grail when you said that. LOL
I STILL havent seen the wole movie!! Every one I know talks about the killer rabbit, but I fell asleep just after..go fetch me a shrub...make it a nice shrub...
I am a dissapointment to movie buffs everywhere..I know..
you are not a dissapointment, just an enigma.
jk, some are movie buffs of sci-fi, some of westerns, some of, well you get my point.
ha ha..well said..I was thinking aobut the people I know, here in my home town... there is more then on kind of movie...I do enjoy a good satire tho, and would like to one day stay awake thru the whole thing!!
oh no, am I hijacking another thread? I am soooo bad at staying on topic, I blame it on PMS...
I have heard rumors of this, too.
I would personally not want a vaccination. I have never had a flu shot and with my luck, I'd probably be one of the people that have an adverse reaction to it! I've been really weak lately due to my anemia and the heat, so introducing this virus into my body, even in a small amount, isn't exactly my thought of preventative measures. I frequently wash my hands and don't put my fingers in or around my eyes, ears, nose.
I would be really shocked if they'd actually make it illegal not to get one. I really hope not.
Based on the fact that "they're" saying this particular strain of flu is so far "less dramatic" and less deadly than a lot of the run-of-the-mill flu's that come around, I would not want a vaccine. As with all people with compromised health/immune systems, some would be probably be wise to get it (but it should be their own choice). I suppose if there is proof that the thing mutates and becomes more deadly I could at least see the reasoning behind mandated vaccines (so people won't be spreading it to innocent others). (Why don't we all just put on the gray uniforms, eat nothing but rice, and wait for the government goons to come and tell us what to do next...)
Well I am not sure about whether to get a vaccine or not. One thing which many people fail to take into account is that in the UK at least, by the time there is a vaccine about 1/3 of the peopel will have already caught the virus which means they are unlikely to get it. As such the spread of it will start to slow down and vaccinations to those at risk eg older people, pregnant women, overweight people, smokers etc will probably mean that even more people have immunity. I am no expertb ut the virus would have to be especially good at spreading once large proportions of the population have immunity either through previously having the virus or through vaccinations.
In general a vaccine will be good for public health but I having a hard time with being required to take a shot. I'm waffling on this one.
Thanks for your replies, girly_girl09, Lisa W, BristolBoy and Pete!
BristolBoy I have a Welsh friend who is saying she doesn't get flu because she is a smoker and that there is more flu about because of the ban on smoking! lol
BTW here is David Icke on the subject:
agreed. it seems to me that now days were are being forced to do things that we may need to day, but should not be manditory. ie. vaccines, medical insurance. maybe its just me but i dont like being bossed around at my job let alone my life.
I quote from David Icke's latest newsletter:
"We also need to realise - here, now - that we have long crossed the line into a fully-fledged fascist dictatorship. It has hidden itself to most people this far, but it is about to lift the veil."
Isn't the situation you describe proof that we are indeed living under a fascist dictatorship?
I'm against any mandatory vaccine. I think, however, such a programme is very unlikely.
I am completely against it. There is no proof that it would be helpful, and may be dangerous. Besides, viruses tend to mutate so fast that even if the vaccine was helpful, you may still get it, and people will be less cautious.
I know several children who have been vaccinated against the chicken pox, and have managed to catch it twice now.
eek. I do not have children yet but every time I hear about vaccinations (especially the unknown, yet assumed ties to autism), I get really apprehensive about having children and giving them vaccinations. They are supposed to protect them, not hurt them. I am so glad I don't have children right now and being forced to make the decision as to whether or not vaccinations are in fact, the right choice. I hope another 8-10 years from now, there will be better research and I'll be less apprehensive about potentially exposing my children to the adverse affects.
I've never gotten a flu vaccine. (If I've ever gotten a real flu I'm not sure. There are other viruses that can seem like flu, and every few years I may one.) It was only a few years ago, though, that I paid any attention to the number of people who die (just in the US) from "regular" flu each year. It's - like - 36,000, I think.
Even with that, though, it is often still recommended that the people most needing flu shots are the elderly or others with medical conditions that would indicate it. To me, that kind of puts H1N1 a little in perspective (at least for the time-being).
After watching Torchwood:Children of earth I would certainly be opposed to the government giving out a vaccination against a flu virus that was probably the governments fault anyway....I am just cynical of the whole process of our governments policies and the way they try to run our country in the UK
So take that jab and stuff it up Mr Browns botty!!
Nobody's going to make anybody get a swine flu shot. They can't even make people get regular flu shots.
I'm a homoeopath and fully expecting to be lynched (as always happens when I voice my right to an opinion even on my own facebook page), vaccines are unproven, not good for health and I'll have one over my dead body!
Even if they were proven to work, injecting ANYTHING into the body's system and thus bypassing it's ability to mobilise any kind of defence or natural response reaction to the chemicals it contains isn't good in my opinion.
If people would just wash their hands a lot of this could be avoided A friend sent me a scare-mongering email about this today.
Thank you everyone for all your responses! I have felt motivated to put a hub together on the subject and have done so! I am very glad to hear that you are all against this vaccine!
I'm against any mandatory vaccination programe...how could any government enforce it anyway?
I'm all in favour of handwashing, but clean hands won't prevent you from catching an airborne virus. Unless you are a hermit you going to be breathing in the same air that others have breathed out at some point.
We've got a swine flu virus poster on the inside of the door of our toilets at work, reminding us to wash our hands. Fine, I have washed my hands very thoroughly, but now I've got to touch the door handle to get out...I wonder if the last person who touched it had clean hands?
I am against vaccines in general. For any of you that think they cannot make it mandatory, think again. As a resident of the last state to make Automobile insurance mandatory, I can tell you how it is mandated. The government cut off funds for highway repair until the insurance law was mandated. Insurance purpose is to insure that the other guy gets paid.
Health insurance is not for the purpose of providing us with medical care, it is for the purpose of insuring the providers get paid.
Vaccines are not for the purpose of insuring we don't get sick, they are for the purpose of insuring others don't get sick from us.
Vaccines are already mandatory, try getting a child into daycare or school without it. Try getting a travel visa without it. Try getting certain jobs without it.
We can claim this is not mandatory, but how about the recent story in the news of a woman who decided not to have her son treated with chemotherapy and was court ordered that she had to and became a criminal when she fled. Her son was going to get chemo with or without her consent. This is serious, think again!
In general, vaccines have done the world a great deal of good. We shouldn't forget that.
Agreed on that point (although I still don't want a H1N1 vaccine unless something changes).
How is letting a world unnaturally overpopulate with a whole subset of inferior beings any benefit to mankind?
No human has cured a disease only the bodies immune system and good old survival of the fittest.
In the absence of vaccines, we would have developed our own natural immunity. It eases some temporary suffering of the time, but look at the chaos it creates. Is the world worth the few?
Who is to call any beings "inferior beings"? How are beings to be judged this way? Who judges? This is at the roots of eugenics! This is Nazi superior race philosophy! This is man playing God! I am shocked that you have asked that question!
I was implying the reverse, that vaccinations are man playing God. Who are we to decide the course of human events?
I do not trust mans ability to make such decisions, which is why I am against vaccinations, for exactly the reason you State, Eugenics is very scary stuff, and I feel vaccines have been tied to that philosophy for some time now.
We are now forever tied to a corporations ability to maintain ample supplies of vaccines against horrific diseases, that if left natural would no longer plague the planet. Because of vaccinations, now you nor I can say for any certainty that our children won't fall prey to some of the greatest terrors of mankind. Or, who is to say we all as a species won't be held hostage by these same corporations.
All they have to say is give us more money or else, and now we must pay or face the unknown.
I know this has happened to the US Military on multiple occasions with the corporation contracted to supply the vaccine, they say the magic words oh we don't have enough, and like magic money appears in their bank.
I am not sure I am buying into this. We did some research when we had to decide about our kids vaccination, and the results impressed me as much as global warming.
Buying into vaccination having been good for general health level of the population. Don't remember exact sources, but I saw quite a few charts showing that vaccination scope actually lagged the decline in diseases spread, as opposed to leading it...
I had the flue 3 years in a row... got a shot and no flue for the last 3 years, so based on that, I am for it.
In the United States, the concept of mandatory vaccination is illegal and unconstitutional.
At least, it once was.
No one can deny that vaccinations against such diseases as polio were successful campaigns.
However, people should be informed, educated and given choice, unless it is absolutely necessary for a vaccine to be mandatory.
There is no likelihood of some WHO-organised compulsary vaccination, IMO. Just hte conspiracy theorists' wet dreams.
No? You can't send your kid to kindergarten if he doesn't get his "shots". You must provide proof from your doctor as well. But this is in the People's Republic of California, hopefully not everywhere.
I read and write about the swine flu everyday and it is spreading like an out of control wild fire but I WOULD NOT take the vaccine. They can't even pin point exactly what this virus is, wash your hands or move to DC they only have 45 cases compared to NC with cloe to 300. Wierd huh?
It's all about showing off Dori. They need to report they took measures
Last I heard we only had 8 cases in the entire state of Ohio...about 16 million people...but that was a couple of weeks ago. I haven't heard anything new about it here since then....
There is a difference between mandatory vaccination for something like polio, and something like the flu.
Perhaps some here are happy that "other people's children" have been required to have those polio (and other) vaccinations before starting school?
This isn't about that. It's about
"Or put another way, the day the government chooses to forget my 4th amendment rights is the day I remind them of my 2nd amendment rights" - curiozities
Isn't that at an extreme, and somewhat beyond the scope of discussing the issue in a realistic manner?
No. That's the whole point. Once we let the government step over that line we are no longer free. All of these kinds of issues must go back, in their primary analysis, to the Constitution. Otherwise there is no way to judge their place in the scheme of things.
No. I don't know what country you are from but in the United States, government gets its power solely from the consent of the governed (which is us, the people). At least, that's how it's supposed to be, theoretically. Sadly, each day that is becoming less and less true.
There is no material difference between anything mandatory - all is stripping you of your real or perceived freedoms
I don't think that anyone in the UK has anything to worry about - the likelihood that this government could get their act together to vaccinate the whole population is zero. I think you have more to worry about if you actually want to have the vaccination -trying to get one will probably prove to be very hard!!
Thanks again to everyone who has posted here!
Misha, I agree with what you have posted!
Apart from the fact that it is highly unlikely that any government will make a swine flue innoculation mandatory (swine flu will have burnt out before they get a chance), I wouldn't have a problem with a mandatory job as long as I could be assured of the safety of what is being injected into us.
I don't know what is used in the US, but in the UK, the Tamiflu drug which is what they propose to use hasn't been properly tested and they don't really know about any side effects. If you're gna hav nausea and feverish symptoms guarenteed (or likely) then I think I'd rather take my chances.
I've had all kinds of (presumably) mandatory jabs: tb, mmr ... all the ones i had as a baby .. and to be honest I'd rather have the jab than risk catching any one of them and when I have children I'll have them immunised too. But while the side effects of the Swine flu jab could be almost as bad as having swine flu itself then i think ill pass.
From my wholistic health perspective, even beyond the mandatory (which I don't think is right), because everyone has a unique state of "chemistry" in their physical body, a "one size fits" any kind of drug is not realistically safe. We have barely heard (because the media and others can be bought off by big pharma and others)the variety of reactions, presumed damage to mind and body, even deaths that vaccinations have caused.
Besides that, when I did the research back in the 80s for my last two children, the "system" had not updated the way they make the vaccines or the shipping and storage thereof. In other words, no progress had been made in how it was done. Did you know the West had been sending outdated drugs and vaccines to the third world countries for decades...when they didn't use them here.
It is another corrupt, bottom-line oriented system.
Anybody done more recent research investigation on manufacturing, shipping and storage?
I think people are right to be suspicious of this particular flu jab because it's hard to know what or who to trust on a governmental level. There are plenty of rumors that Swine Flu is something that has been cooked up on purpose, and plenty that the vaccine will cause more harm than good. Certainly, it is going to have to be rushed through trials and whatnot, and that is never a good idea.
On the other hand, mandatory childhood vaccinations against mumps, measles, meningitis are excellent. These diseases can ravage children who are not immunized, and in some areas children whose parents bought into the 'ooo no vaccines' thing are now dying of diseases nobody has died of for decades.
By the time this jab is ready the bulk of the cold and flu season will be over in Australia. The chances are that most of us will have been exposed here. The Swine Flu has been spreading rapidly. and the medical authorities have stopped testing for the strain.
Given that the flu, while nasty in some cases, seems to be less deadly than the common flu, then no I won't get the jab. I had my first flu injection this year and I did not like the side effects.
Oh and the commenter who mentioned Torchwood...yeah talk about taking events to their logical conclusion, including starting with an Indonesian flu threat in 1965. Scary stuff.
Bard, thanks for that last post. I would only add: What is meant by "unnaturally populate"...? TMG, you must mean that anyone saved from death by getting a vaccination shouldn't have kids?
Oh, well, there is also: "...benefit to [mankind]" that should be addressed. Seems like benefitting the entire planet might be a more balanced way to go.
I'm 1,000 percent against being FORCED to have any vaccination, but that's just 'cause I detest being told what to do. Ask any of my ex-wives. But I WAS forced to have a polio vaccination as a kid...and grew up knowing people (who'd not been vaccinated) who DID contract polio. Bottom line: I'm glad not to have had the polio. Walking around with one arm and one leg all shriveled up (at best) doesn't look like much fun.
Absolutley no way Jose! I am dead set against this vaccine for so many reasons, not the least because of the Nanny State says so. I am an adult who can make informed choices. Also, we have has the virus, and its symptoms are no worse than the usual flu, so we all have natural immunity. What use is a vaccine going to be to me anyhow? No, I have no trust in a manufacturer who makes such grave "mistakes' and I do not believe that the statistical data is true on their trials. i worked in Pharmacy for 5 years and know exactly how skewed the interpretation of the data can get just to please the drug companies and make it sound wonderful. The is no way that a vaccine can be "safe" if its trials are pushed thru in 5 days. For decades drug manufacturers have had to have trial after trial , with some trials lasting years or decades before the product is given a license. No, something stinks about this one my friends, and I for one will not be having the vaccine. Nor will my children, and the same goes for the HPV vaccine which is being marketed as a vaccine which "stops you getting cervical cancer'. It does not, since HPV is only prevalent in 70% cases of cervical cancer. I refuse permission to vaccinate my 12 year daughter against a sexually transmitted disease, with a vaccine which causes so many serious and permanent side effects, when it can be prevented by other means, namely condoms, which also safeguards against HIV, pregnancy and a host of other STD's. Educate yourselves people, and make informed choices about your health and your family's health. The day my Government starts showing any interest in my health and well being is the day I start to worry, aftr all if I lose my life to some disease, they lose the suerty bond of an estimated 333 against my birth certificate. See how important you are to your government? You are just a pile of cash they can lend out and earn interest on, and tax you till you are bled dry.
I have just seen the typ. Sorry! it should read £33m not 333!
What about people that are allergic to the vaccine? Although all deceased now, many in my ancestral line were allergic to all flu vaccines made via processes that included chicken eggs and - I think - pig tissues.
I have never had any kind of flu and have been exposed to several, so with the familial allergy history, it might be a death sentence for me to be vaccinated agasint Swine flu. (I DO become rather ill after consuming chicken eggs and chicken meat in the same sitting.) I would not accept flu vaccine today, I think, no matter how it was made.
Note for those over 50 years old - News reports in June '09 stated that 50+ year-olds in the US are likely immune to the lastest Swine Flu, because of exposure to similar viruses in the past.
Each to his own judgement. Best to all!
I have never obtained a flu shot in my life and I rarely get sick. As many others have stated washing your hands is a great dose of prevention. Many people eat on the run without washing their hands and do not think about it. I have been guilty of doing this in the past, and the few times I got sick I can usually tie back to not washing. However, I highly doubt it will come down to mandatory vaccinations.
I really hope you are right, SweetiePie! I have never had a flu shot either and don't want one!
I think a lot of people would protest by not showing up. I mean how can they make everyone get a flu shot? I would really like to see any country try this. Even if they did try I am sure many people would simply not go.
From what I have read they will possibly be making house calls. I do not claim to understand how such a thing can be done because of the sheer volume of people needed to carry out the work and the much greater volume of people to be forced into this.
Oh, yeah, no question about it - but very few. Actually the USA has such an experience, too - think mandatory school vaccines.
Can they do that? I would tell them to F off!
They do it all the time. If you want your kid to go to school, you should have her vaccinated. They just add this one to the list, of course for your own betterment...
I always got my school vaccines, but there is a small and vocal group that refuses to vaccination their children. This may not be everyone, but they do exist:
We have our local vaccine fighter - blogging2, and I agree to her
That is cool. Personally I do think vaccines should be a personal choice for parents. On the other hand I never got flu shots because many people I knew that got these still came down with the flu. I rarely come down with the flu and never did get flu shots.
Me neither. And I believe this just as efficient for other vaccines...
The Military gave me the Pertussis vaccine once; I never came down with the disease, but gave it to my newborn son and almost killed him.
When they found out what it was they quarantined my whole family.
This was in 1996. I tried to refuse anthrax in 98 and found myself facing a military court and I caved in and took it.
So, if you go to school, or you join any government type agencies, you will get the vaccine or you will have to decide your economic future. If you are in the military as I was you will decide with your freedom as they will throw your ass in the brig and dishonorably discharge you if you refuse to take the vaccine.
So, knowing that about 2 million peoples serve in the US armed forces and only 9 actually refused the vaccines. I would say most will cave when the pressure comes down.
I will not cave ever again.
LOL Never say never bro
Actually for me it is just subject to risk-reward analysis
I honestly think you are worrying unnecessarily about this, Bard.
if one does a bit of research on the pharmaceutical firm behind the manufacture of this vacccine, you then get a clear picture of the politics involved. See the connection of one donald rumsfeld to this company.
Certain vaccinations are compulsory if you are travelling to a foreign country where dangerous infections are endemic. Nobody wants you wandering from country to country as a possible carrier of life threatening diseases.
If you are willing to risk being the reservoir for viruses that could kill your neighbours, especially children and the elderly you need a pretty good case to defend yourself on moral grounds.
It's a way to go on this debate though.
by Arby Bourne 11 years ago
Hello, all! I see a lot of new faces, reminding me of how long I've been away from my beloved HP. This place really rocks, doesn't it? School has kept me extremely busy the last few months. Which brings me to my request for you, dear Hubbers. I'm writing a piece about the H1N1 vaccine, or more...
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Just curious to see how many people are really feeling the effects of the Swine Flu or is it all just to cause mass hysteria.
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