Upcoming Changes to Pethelpful, Dengarden, and Discover

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STAFF
Lisa-Winterposted 8 weeks ago
Thank you for all of your contributions to HubPages over the past many years. You may have noticed that the HubPages operation is in a stage of transition as we move many of your articles back to Discover.HubPages from our network domains. This decision was made to try to capitalize on the HubPages.com domain, so that we may find some growth in traffic and revenue to benefit our partnership.

As we continue to monitor, the following sites will not be moving back to Discover.HubPages at this time: Delishably, Hobbylark, Owlcation, WanderWisdom, LetterPile, and WeHaveKids. We will be keeping these sites separate and live for the time being, and content on those sites will continue to earn revenue share through your HubPages accounts accordingly.

We have decided to focus more efforts on the Home & Garden and Pets sections under The Arena Group Lifestyle vertical. On October 31st, 2024, we will start to operate Dengarden and PetHelpful as standalone sites within The Arena Group. Because we are endeavoring to grow the Dengarden and PetHelpful brands alongside our Parade brand, we have made the strategic decision to pivot away from the user-generated content model used by our HubPages system. Moving forward, the content on Dengarden and PetHelpful will be managed on a separate content management system. Content will be scheduled/pitched, written, edited, and updated using editorial practices shown to provide growth for the other successful properties owned by The Arena Group.

Please be aware that as of October 31st, The Arena Group will no longer be able to share revenue on content that remains on Dengarden and PetHelpful. Content that lives on Discover.HubPages or Delishably, Hobbylark, Owlcation, WanderWisdom, LetterPile, and WeHaveKids will continue to earn revenue through your HubPages account.

We appreciate your writing and expertise and hope you will continue to create content for Discover.HubPages and stay a member of our community. Should you be interested in becoming a contributor for the Arena Group, or if you have any other questions regarding these changes, please contact us at editors@hubpages.com.
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  chef-de-jourposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you for this welcome information regarding the niche sites. It brings a little more clarity - with over 450 articles on Owlcation I am personally happy to know that potentially they will still attract traffic and earnings - Google updates notwithstanding - yet there remains the question of ad saturation and poor readership quality. If you wish to 'find some growth in traffic and revenue' surely TAG should be exploring the actual layout of the articles with a view to regaining both reader's and writer's trust. At present there are too many annoying ads and not enough text continuity for a good read through.
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  Genna Eastposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Andrew! I could not agree more: "If you wish to 'find some growth in traffic and revenue' surely TAG should be exploring the actual layout of the articles with a view to regaining both reader's and writer's trust. At present there are too many annoying ads and not enough text continuity for a good read through."
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  veloceclubposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
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  Sue Adamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Corporate greed bankrupts corporations.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  For those who worry about articles with AI content, TAG's "Sports Illustrated" apparently got called out for using AI to create fake articles several months ago. It was such a disaster that TAG fired the CEO and many of its writers. So we can at least trust their promise of staying away from AI content for awhile, although they are using the technology to help keep the company organized.
  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e9-Jx5YXy6s
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  So, we no longer simply post; we now need to pitch to TAG in order to be considered for publication? How are we paid? ARE we paid?
  The beauty of HP, in its origination, was that we authors didn't have to jump through hoops; we simply had to post using best practices, knowledge, and writing skills that entertained, educated, or informed readers who searched for answers to their questions/pain points and encouraged conversation/interaction.
  
  So, my question is: If we now have to pitch to the Arena gods, are we only compensated if our pitches lead to articles that they are willing to post? For cryin' out loud, HP is not Better Homes and Gardens or any other brand name that appears in searches, so how do we HP alumni continue? How do we move forward? Is it even worth our time and effort to continue writing for the HubPages format?
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  You can't pitch article ideas unless you email the team and they accept you for the Arena Group Dengarden or Pethelpful pages. I'm wondering if this is related to what Sue posted about. Not sure what site most of her articles are on.
  
  It looks like everyone else can publish on Discover and possibly have content moved to the few remaining niche sites per usual.
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  If TAG is revising their submittal TOS, they need to post it and ditch the HP format altogether; otherwise, writers who happen upon the site as we all did over a decade ago will be misled and have no reason to post freely. Up until now, HP had been a phenomenal platform for writers who want to test the waters and get feedback. Many HP writer have gone on to publish novels. HP was - in its day - one of the best diving board for writers/authors who wanted to test the waters.
  
  Now it seems taking the dive into the HP pool will result in busting your head on a concrete abyss.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I know what HP was/is, however we were never guaranteed a permanent unchanging platform. We knew things could and would change.
  
  I don't agree with most of it, and some changes are downright infuriating, but it is what it is. We can either adapt again and write for Discover, which appears to be no different than writing for HP in the beginning minus comments, or move on. Yes the TOS should change and remove the comments section since we can no longer have them, but the submission process for Discover is still the same. We write, the article passes QAP, and we're published.
  
  Dengarden & Pethelpful are no longer going to be HP's so it's really no different than us writing for HP and those niche sites running like Parade. It is essentially one big corporation running smaller companies. They all do not have to run the same.
  
  The only real issue is the one SerenityHalo brings up regarding the current content on those niches and what happens to it. As I'm sure the vast majority of those writers are not partaking in the forums and have no idea their content is set to move and what that entails for them.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Dengarden and PetHelpful are indeed my two main sites. If I want to write new articles for those sites, and they’re not articles that TAG assigned me, then I need to email TAG to pitch my ideas. They won’t be accepting unsolicited articles anymore.
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sue, thank you for the information. So, starting October 31, 2024, the articles you have on those two sites will not generate revenue?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  If that's the case, then TAG needs to completely disassociate itself from HP. Additionally, HP needs to come in and tell us the new procedures. You mention that TAG can and will assign articles to writers who (I assume) have proven themselves through prior pitches and successful article submittals.
  
  At the very least TAG needs to send the new criteria to HP so HP can copy/inform us on the proper procedures for the new development.
  
  We've been held in obscurity for years now because what goes on behind closed doors is not revealed to us. Now we learn that two of the most profitable niche sites for HP are being hijacked and the authors now have a different set of rules to follow. People who have historically written for HP are not those who pitch to magazines that actually pay a decent wage and give the author the byline.
  
  Will TAG give the authors who are accepted to write for their versions of Dengarden and Pethelpful credit for the articles?
  
  We NEED a new TOS for this wrench that has been thrown at us. It needs to include procedures, contact information, submittal guidelines, remuneration, pay frequency, and method of of same.
  
  Sue, it seems for some reason, you've been selected to be advised of these new developments. Frankly, that's just plain out not fair! What about the rest of us?
  
  Are you free to inform us of what TAG has revealed to you? Or is that Top Secret, too?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Paul Edmonson, as a founder of HubPages, please respect us enough to give us the honest low-down of what's going on with HP and what we can expect. Should we follow the lead of HP's most prolific/successful writers and jump ship?
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  Shesabutterflyposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  The writers that they have selected to write for the new sites (such as Sue) will receive emails and have meetings to discuss questions, details, and accept/deny offers.
  
  The sites will no longer be HP affiliated and therefore not open to all of us. I would not be surprised if there are only a handful of writers based on what I've seen on Parade. Which is the model/brand they will be moving to, hence our inability to submit articles openly and the requirement for pitches.
  
  HP does not need a new TOS, because these two niches are no longer on the site come October. If we want a chance to contribute to Dengarden and Pethelpful (or in other words write for TAG outside of HP) we can email the address Lisa provided in the initial post. However, there is no guarantee we would be allowed to write for the sites. If we are not personally invited or our inquiry to become a contributor is not accepted, we cannot create content for them.
  
  As disheartening as it is, it is best to start thinking of Pethelpful and Dengarden as TAG entities rather than HP niches. TAG may own HP, but they own multiple different websites and they all do not run the same. Writing for Parade, Men's Journal, The Street, HP are not identical and I'm sure they have their own TOS/editorial policies (as does HP) in addition to the TOS of TAG. Once transitioned, the new Pethelpful and Dengarden sites will likely have their own as well.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  This is my understanding of the situation as well.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Mine too. You could look at TAG as turning PetHelpful and DenGarden into online magazines—hiring writers to write specific articles to keep their information fresh and fill in gaps. (I've been hired before for other online journals.) However, that doesn't stop anyone from writing their own articles about pets or gardening etc. and posting them on Discover to get ad revenue.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Hi, Sue. What are some of the online journals where you have published your work?
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  Sustainable Sueposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  The main one was The Sustainable Business Review, but I haven't written for them since before Covid. I used to write articles about sustainability practices of assigned international companies (like the Copper Mountain Mine in Canada) or projects (like the Suez Canal reconstruction). After a few years, though, they started assigning me companies that really didn't have viable sustainability programs. I don't like greenwashing, so I stopped writing for them.
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  SerenityHaloposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sounds interesting. Good on you for stopping when it became questionable.
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  ChitrangadaSharanposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you Lisa for the information.
  I hope the page views and earnings improve on discover.hubpages after this transition.
  As suggested by almost everyone, it would be overall beneficial for the site to reduce too many ads.
  Hope remaining niche sites will not be affected.
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  MariaMontgomeryposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Over half of my articles are on Dengarden. Yesterday I emailed as directed to ask how to move them to the Arena group in order to earn there. So far, no reply. If they will not earn money there, how do I move them to Discover?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Maria, you can't request they be moved to the Arena Group. You can only request they be moved to Discover. Moving forward you'll have to pitch your articles to TAG and whatever platform they will be using for what once was Dengarden on HP. Same for anything that normally would have gone to PetHelpful. I've actually asked this question - and a few others- in my response to Serenity Halo's latest post on this thread.
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  Maria Ceciliaposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  same question here, my mostbpopular article is in pethelpful too. and currently working on another article.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'm sure you can post your new article on Discover. HP will have to create a new niche for pets and gardens, etc. Also, I don't know how others have handled it, but I actually unpublished a couple of articles I didn't want to leave on DenGarden and PetHelpful. I imagine, over time, I could republish and they would go to Discover (although actually I'm going to move them to another site).
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5. STAFF
  Lisa-Winterposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I want to address some of the questions I see from many of you.
  
  On Oct. 31st, PetHelpful and Dengarden are going to be in a different CMS that we use at The Arena Group. Authors will no longer have access to their articles on PetHelpful and Dengarden starting on that date.
  
  Discover HubPages will continue to be moderated but will not be edited. (We've only ever edited content on Network Sites.)
  
  I am moving articles as the requests come in. It usually takes a day or two for the articles to move, so please be patient. I'll email you once the move is complete.
  
  Initially, becoming a contributor was only going to be by invitation, but we're coming up with a way for authors to have the ability to apply to be a contributor. I'll post more about that when I have more info.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Lisa. I look forward to your next update.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Lisa, thank you for clarifying. If I become a contributor for PetHelpful under the new model, would I earn revenue from the existing articles I have already published there (215 of them)? Answering that question would help me determine whether I should move them off PetHelpful or not. I would really like to keep them there as I believe pet articles should be on pet sites. My articles have gained credibility and trust there over the years, and they currently generate good revenue. I have emailed yourself and Matt with my questions and look forward to hearing from you.
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  STAFF
  Lisa-Winterposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  No, after Oct. 31st, authors will no longer receive revenue from their articles on PetHelpful or Dengarden, whether or not they are contributors.
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Lisa, well, at least we know what's going on.
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  CYong74posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I truly wonder why anyone would want to keep their articles on these two sites. There's no money. You lose access. The sites obviously aren't doing awesome, thus the need for revamp.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I emailed my "move to Discover" request a couple of days ago. This afternoon (08/21/2024) I received an email from Lisa advising me that the moves have been made. I just checked and neither Dengarden nor Pethelpful are choices in the filter option on my account/articles page.
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  viryaboposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Does this mean we lose the copyright to OUR works on these two sites? Just like that?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  The sites will no longer exist after October 31st. If you have them moved to Discover, you'll still retain your copyrights.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Shauna, I understand from Lisa's original post that these two sites WILL continue to exist, but as "standalone sites within The Arena Group."
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  But they will no longer exist on the HubPages platform. We will no longer see earnings unless our articles are moved to the Discover site. The new Arena platforms will be by invitation only. That said, whatever you have on those two sites will not be transferred to the Arena domains nor will you have the opportunity to earn revenue. They will be lost unless you request they be transferred to Discover.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Because they're no longer part of Hubpages, we will lose whatever revenue we were getting from them (as bravewarrior mentioned) AND we will also lose the ability to edit and/or unpublish them. They'll be under a completely separate cover that we don't have access to.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  That make sense, common sense.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Not as I understand it, no.
  
  As authors, we generally retain the copyright to our work unless we explicitly transfer it to someone else through a written agreement. This means we have the exclusive rights to reproduce, distribute, and display our work where we like. The current situation doesn’t mean that The Arena Group is taking your copyright, but rather that they will no longer compensate you for work already published on PetHelpful or DenGarden.
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  viryaboposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Apparently we won’t have access to our works after 31st October if we don’t have them moved back to Discover. Is that even right? No access.
  I’ll be moving my stuff back anyway, but it still doesn’t seem right.
  
  What happens to the other authors who don’t have a clue about what’s going on? They don’t visit the forums and may not access their emails either.
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  How to - Answersposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I want all my articles moved from dengarden to discover please
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  theraggededgeposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  You need to email the address given earlier in the thread.
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  STAFF
  Matt Wellsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Send an email to editors@hubpages.com to request the transfer.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Contact team@hubpages.com/ or editors@hubpages.com/
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  Kenny Minkerposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Should we keep submitting to network sites? Ones such as WanderWisdom and Bellatory that aren't moving to Discover or TAG.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  That's a good question. You can always try or email team@hubpages.com and ask them. Share here what you found out.
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  Markeliposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  I submitted one of my articles to Owlcation the other day and received this reply from HP:
  
  "Thank you for submitting your article, ....., for consideration on Owlcation.Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting submissions to HubPages Network Sites.
  We constantly strive to ensure that articles achieve the best possible visibility and engagement. As such, we are in the process of moving all articles currently on Network Sites back to Discover HubPages, and we believe your article has the potential to attract more traffic and generate higher earnings on the Discover HubPages domain."
  
  Don't know whether other writers had similar experiences, but if they no longer accept submissions to the network sites at all, I wonder what the future of the network sites still in existence will look like?
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  ChitrangadaSharanposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks for sharing this. I was also thinking of submitting one of my earlier published articles to the relevant niche site, but it seems to be of no use, now onwards.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  The lack of consistency and clear direction moving forward, is frustrating to say the least. It doesn't hurt to submit articles if you think they're a good fit.
  
  Some author's submitting work to the remaining niche sites are getting message like Markeli posted above, however they are accepting some submissions or moving articles on their own based on comments in this post.
  
  https://hubpages.com/community/forum/36 … g-articles
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  Sustainable Sueposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  The "lack of clear direction" and "consistency" is coming from the fact that their own picture is not clear yet, i.e. they are just working out the details. They know what they want to end up with, but the way to get there is what they're working out now. I imagine our questions are helping them do that.
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  bravewarriorposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  +++!
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  TeriSilverposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  This was posted 2 weeks ago, yet only today is when I get the email notification. I find it to be a bit confusing. What happens to my Dengarden and PetHelpful articles. Do I unpublish them and use them elsewhere? Does Arena keep them and keep all the revenue? Why should I spend hours on an article that I cannot earn from? What happen to the original idea of HubPages?It seems that Arena knows we'd keep the articles up and they get all the money, not like there's tons of it. Wow. I've written for HP for many years.
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  SylviaSkyposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  People are reading less, preferring to watch videos. Hubpages also helped to self-destruct by interrupting the reading experience with huge ads. Readers could barely find the words they'd come there to read.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yeah. We've been griping about that for years!
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  Genna Eastposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Absolutely. And this problem has only gotten worse. Andrew (chef-de-jour) stated it perfectly:
  
  "If you wish to 'find some growth in traffic and revenue' surely TAG should be exploring the actual layout of the articles with a view to regaining both reader's and writer's trust. At present there are too many annoying ads and not enough text continuity for a good read through."
  
  Reading now has become tantamount to trying to maneuver through an obstacle course.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Genna, somewhere in one of the forums on this topic, I posted a link to a Google article that talked about how they measure sites. Among their criteria are: intrusive ads that disrupt the user experience, sites that don't promote reader/author interaction (e.g. comments), and articles that do not follow the E-E-A-T recommendations. TAG's interference with the HP format has deemed it as a non-trustworthy site that turns readers away. We didn't have that problem when HP was its own entity. We writers/contributors reaped the benefits of producing quality articles without having to compete with or attract advertisers in order to make a passive income. Now the format has become confrontational and turns readers away, eliminating our chances of making a difference and showing up in SERPs. I'd like to see HP go back to the original format but be more selective in whom can create an account. Perhaps give prospective writers a test on English, authoritativeness, and general interest-grabbing work. We writers aim to entertain, educate, or answer questions. Creativity needs to be brought back and honored. Writers are creatives, just as are artists, musicians, and crafters. Writing IS a craft!
  
  I, frankly, have lost interest in writing for HP over the last several years. But when I joined in 2011, I was always thinking up ideas for posts and was excited to contribute. The changes in HP over the last many years has completely deflated my creativity and has run my muse off. I have no idea where she's gone, but I desperately need her to come back!
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  Genna Eastposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Hi Shauna. I looked for that link but could not find it. But there are over 100 comments on this thread, so I could have missed it. I’m so sorry to hear about your muse. You are a talented writer. But I know exactly how you feel. I left HP for an extended hiatus for several reasons. One of which was the loss of that unique and vibrant, creative writing community due to HP’s “cost-cutting” features regarding commentary, etc., as well as the increased bloating of ad placements. (John Hanson wrote an interesting article about this several months ago.) I still miss it. We lost some of the most gifted writers I’ve ever read.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Genna, I stand corrected. It was a forum post I created. Here's the link: https://hubpages.com/community/forum/36 … se-ranking
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9. STAFF
  Lisa-Winterposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Hi everyone. It has come to my attention that I'm not receiving all of the emails coming through the editors@hubpages.com email address. I'm not sure what's going on, but if I don't respond to you within 2 business days, please email me directly at lwinter@thearenagroup.net with your request.
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  Patty Inglish, MSposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Lisa!
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  Glenn Stokposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Hi Lisa,
  
  I thought you were no longer with the company since your name was removed from the staff listing along with 21 others, leaving only four.
  
  Can you bring us up to date as to how things stand with plans going forward? The loss of staff is the most unsettling right now.
  
  I'm glad you're still there.
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  Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  twinter@thearenagroup or just this: twinter@thearenagroup.com ...and because they's a slight glitch at hubpages, the contact address or email appear blunt at the edge of my opera browser or screen. Much thanks.
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  Sammendoranposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  If I email my request now, will my articles be moved now or on October 31? Or can I request a date?
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sam, They'll be moved now.
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  bravewarriorposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Mine were moved a couple of days after I emailed my request to Lisa Winter.
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  letstalkabouteducposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Has anyone heard news about WeHaveKids? Is it best to leave my articles there or ask for them to be moved to Discover?
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  Glenn Stokposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  As Lisa said in the post you just replied to, content on WeHaveKids will not be moving back to Discover. So, why would you want to request it? It's best to leave your content on a niche site where it has more potential for earnings.
  
  Of course, TAG is claiming that Discover has more earnings potential, but that has never been the case before and is questionable at this point with no proof to the contrary.
  
  Not long ago HubPages staff insisted that we never include a link to Discover or HubPages in our articles because of its low rating with Google. They never explained why they changed their minds.
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  Cloverleafposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  This contradiction is exactly what has me baffled, and why I'm bracing for impact...
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  So, am I to understand that we will no longer be paid for our existing content on Dengarden and pethelpful? I've not been paying much attention to HP lately. I'm so glad I logged in today to find out about this before it's too late.
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sherry, Yes. That is the case, sadly. Bev described it as kidnapping our articles.
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theraggededgeposted 8 weeks ago
Wow. So hubbers should move their DenGarden and PetHelpful articles elsewhere if they want to earn from them?
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1. STAFF
  Lisa-Winterposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Send an email to editors@hubpages.com to have your content on PetHelpful and Dengarden moved to Discover.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  This is actually very confusing. If our content is on DenGarden or Pethelpful, will it receive revenue in some capacity? Will it sit on those sites and writers won’t receive anything? No residuals? Is there a flat fee to give those articles to the sites that are now in a different level of the Arena Group?
  
  Or is it better to just request them to be put on Discover?
  
  Would it be so bad to do a split system where users can submit articles to those two sites while also having the more edited, scheduled system?
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  STAFF
  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  If you still want to earn a revenue share from your articles currently published on Pethelpful and Dengarden, you'll have to email editors@hubpages.com to request they be moved to Discover. You will not earn a revenue share for your articles published on Pethelpful and Dengarden starting October 31st.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Will DenGarden and Pethelpful keep articles that HubPages writers wrote UNLESS they request to have them moved?
  
  I’m trying to be polite here and dance around the issue, but it sounds like theft if those articles are existing somewhere and people aren’t getting paid or have some agreement due to it being moved to the new Arena format. It would be best to move all of them off DenGarden and Pethelpful if people aren’t getting paid, and if those articles have to exist there in order to maintain the brand… then yeah, the work people put into building those two brands, they should be compensated.
  
  People didn’t volunteer those articles. So why would some remain if people will no longer earn?
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Amen, Andrea! HP is dancing around the issue and not addressing the fact that we are f@!%^d while they still profit from our content.
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  CYong74posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  The proper and professional thing for TAG to do is to send a formal notice to every published Dengarden and PetHelpful writer to inform them of the revenue model change. I believe they will ultimately have the sense to do so. However, it will still be a warehouse of bees with people missing the notifications, having queries and different opinions, getting furious, etc. I don’t feel TAG is interested or capable of managing these reactions.
  
  The better way is to transfer everything to Discover and then curate (again) from there. But this will be a phenomenal amount of work with all sorts of arguing, indecision, and suspicion. Meanwhile, the emptied Dengarden and PetHelpful will tank in authority and traffic.
  
  Like so many changes in recent years, this just looks to be another big mess in the making.
  
  Gonna say it too, who knows when the retained Owlcation, WanderWisdom, etc, would get the axe? No info from TAG is remotely reliable nowadays. Meanwhile, the “high authority” Discover continues to welcome AI content, watermarked pictures, blatant backlinking, etc.
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  We will send out another notification about the changes.
  
  We have a team of moderators and automated systems to protect Discover. When the type of content you are worried about is published, we will remove it as quickly as we can.
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  CYong74posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Not to be confrontational, Matt, but every time I go to https://discover.hubpages.com/ without logging in, I see one or more such articles. Your system shouldn't even be allowing these to slip through.
  
  I'm sure you know I'm not the only one pointing this out.
  
  And I'm not worried about the content, I'm worried for you, i.e., TAG.
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Some low-quality articles do slip through. We have a team of moderators and automated systems to help remove them. You can flag those articles for moderator review.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  My issue is reporting does not always result in speedy removal, and while we wait for them to be removed these articles are being promoted in the top video and recommended on other articles.
  
  Not to beat a dead horse, but there are authors who have been around for years plagiarizing and creating low quality content despite being reported multiple times.
  
  How does an article that does not even contain a title or very clearly violates HP guidelines pass QAP and not get removed when reported?
  
  There is an article that has been around for 5 days being promoted on mine that has a title and a screenshot image that do not match the written recipe. She has been banned before and is still allowed to come back and create the same low quality articles as before. Frankly, I'd prefer if my articles did not promote such content.
  
  I think what some of us are wondering, is whether or not Discover is going to be edited/curated similar to the niches, or if it's staying the way of HP beginnings where anyone can write essentially anything and be published. Unless reported and staff deem an article should be removed.
  
  One option creates an atmosphere where it could feel like it might be worth continuing to write here, while the other does not.
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Send a link to the article you are referring to team@hubpages.com, and I will take a look. Please include why you think this person has been banned and recreated a new account. Also, please include some of those authors who have been reported and not banned, and I will review them.
  
  Discover will remain the same as it always was. Articles are published on HubPages first, and if they receive enough traffic, they will be moved to Discover. If those article's traffic drops to a low level, they will be sent back to HubPages.
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  Genna Eastposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree. What I have also noticed is that the “Related Articles” – whether Discover or LetterPile -- have absolutely nothing to do with what the author published and are completely out of context. And in a number of instances, are rather embarrassing.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Folks, please remember that we can help out by reporting AI articles we see. The editors can't do everything so, as long as we have the ability to do so, we should help out by reporting what they miss.
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  TeriSilverposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Why did it take until today, August 29, 2024, for me to get this email notification?
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  Sustainable Sueposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  This started out as a forum conversation. I don't know if you get email notices of every forum topic that is created, but that may be why you haven't heard of it until now.
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Your articles will remain on Dengarden and Pethelpful unless you request to move them to Discover before Oct 31st. If they stay on Dengarden and Pethelpful you will not earn a revenue share. If you move them to Discover, you will continue to earn a revenue share.
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  wildernessposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I have gone through this entire thread and found nothing as to how much the revenue share from Discover will be. Is it the same as HP or is the writer's share falling through the floor?
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  The revenue share authors will earn from Discover is not changing. Discover.hubpages.com has ads, but hubpages.com does not.
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  Grip55posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I have only been here for a short time. And I admit, I am mostly here for enjoyment, however with that said, I still wouldn't mind making a little bit of money, - who wouldn't?
  This thread is sad really. I have been here a short time, a matter of days really, and I made sixty three cents.
  But according to this thread, is Hub Pages failing to its death. It appears those two nitches, Pet Helpful and Dengarden, are going to something like sub stack, where people have to pay to read your newsletter. Isn't that what Parade is? From what I read anyway. Isn't Parade an online newsletter where people have to pay to read it.
  I just want to know what to expect. I can understand after reading this thread why the people on here are do unhappy.
  But it is a changing world. Whether or not it is changing for the better, is the key question.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Hi Greg, I got your email yesterday and planned to answer it, but I will do that here. I am not sure Parade is a substack version of paying for a publication online. And, yes. It's a sad moment for us, who've been here a long time, but the handwriting has been on the wall for years. HP/TAG must do something. Whether we like it or not is not in their thought process. Writers have given input and sound advice on reverting HP's decline for several years but to no avail.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Parade, until recently, was a magazine supplement included in local Sunday papers. It is no longer available in print. I still subscribe to my local Thursday and Sunday papers and was very disappointed when the inclusion of Parade was discontinued.
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  JerryFisherposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Matt will the revenue share on Discover still apply to Amazon sales as well?
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, revenue share applies to the Amazon Program on Discover.
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  Brenda Arledgeposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why the team doesn't simply move all of those articles to discover.
  Why must someone request them to be moved?
  As writer's, we've been here for a long time and have had confidence in Hubpages... I'd think you would automatically place everyone's articles where they will earn money.
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Brenda, you are correct. HP/TAG actions are anything but logical. But I have witnessed inconsistencies, falsehoods, false accusations and no communication since TAG took over.
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  Brenda Arledgeposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  This is sad
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Matt, If people unpublish their Dengarden articles, then republish again, will they automatically go to Discover? Is that a way that writers could move them themselves?
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  Matt Wellsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  No, it's best to send an email to editors@hubpages.com and request staff to move your articles for you.
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  Miebakagh57posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  SerenityH, your last two paragraphies keeps me curious and wondering. Why should hubpages take such moves in tandem with TAG? The whole thing seem weird.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  It’s more me being desperate that writers still have access to DenGarden and Pethelpful, the sites they helped build. TAG has made it to where it’s harder to publish there because now you have to apply to be a contributor.
  
  My bigger concern is that they’re holding onto articles in the transfer, and the only way to continue receiving revenue for those articles is to REQUEST that they be transferred to Discover. Holding onto these articles without paying the authors or asking for permission is sketchy to me. They should have to ask each individual writer for them if they want them on their new DenGarden and Pethelpful. Otherwise, it’s like those articles have been sold for $0. I’m not even sure writers will be able to access those articles after they’ve moved to the Arena stand-alone sites.
  
  I assume they want to keep as many articles on DenGarden and Pethelpful as possible to make their numbers look good, but by cutting revenue share and not offering payment to have the articles is strange.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  It’s possible they are buying articles because in another thread Sustainable Sue says Arena approached her by email. However, there hasn’t been any other whisperings of this to the larger community.
  
  The whole thing upsets me a lot. I always thought it would be neat if some of the niches got better branding and so forth, but not at the expense of pushing out writers and making it more difficult for them to contribute. It sounds like to be an Arena “contributor” comes with a lot more micromanaging, which is unappealing to a lot of people here who like to publish on their own timeline. It sounds like they schedule, edit, pitch, assign like other media outlets do.
  
  Why should articles on DenGarden and Pethelpful be requested to move to Discover if all the other niche sites were done automatically? It doesn’t seem right.
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  CYong74posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  That is my main concern too—would authors be able to access their articles after the deadline? I don't have anything on PetHelpful or DenGarden, but the way things have been going, who knows when HobbyLark, Owlcation, or any of the surviving niche sites will be next?
  
  I hope Lisa-Winter and her team acknowledge this too. The way this whole revamp business has been managed instill no confidence at all. It took weeks for an announcement that Discover will have no editing to come. With this latest news, again, more questions than solutions pop up.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  They're not buying the articles I've already posted on those two sites. They're just offering to pay for me to write more articles for them—as though I were a regular reporter. Like you, I will also be losing ad revenue for the articles already posted, but I wasn't making that much from them anyway. I'm guessing that part of the lack of clear communication was because TAG was hoping to keep as many articles as they could, which is indeed a little sly, but you caught on quickly (very smart, folks).
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  Sue Adamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Not buying? Just stealing? I suspect they must have paid HubPages something (or are going to) for the articles that won't be moved to Discovery.
  
  It would be nice to know what the deal is, Matt.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I may be wrong, but I don't believe The Arena Group can lawfully keep our articles on PetHelpful or DenGarden without our permission. We still own the copyrights. My understanding is that unless we opt to move them to Discover, they will be gone forever unless we back them up and put them elsewhere. I'm pretty sure there is no stealing going on. Perhaps PetHelpful will be a clean slate with new content, who knows?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  You are correct, Louise. Unless we ask for the articles to be moved to Discover, Pethelpful and Dengarden will no longer exist after 10/31/2024. So, TAG will not be keeping our previously written/posted articles to those sites. We retain copyright to our articles, but they need to be moved if you still want them to show up in SERPS.
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  Sue Adamsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  We weren't asked for our permission when HP got bought up by Maven and then Maven got bought up by the Arena group. Probably because the HP payment policy (sort of) remained in place.
  
  As to your point, Louise, what would be the point of the Arena Group "acquiring" those two best performing websites if the articles that are not moved to Discovery would be gone for ever? Why would they want to take over two blank websites?
  
  And, if Shauna (bravewarrior) is right when she says: "Pethelpful and Dengarden will no longer exist after 10/31/2024", then where will the remaining articles go?
  
  It doesn't make sense. Some financial arrangement must have taken place in the hope that most of the content would stay on Dengarden and Pethelpful.
  
  What's the deal Matt? Why not just tell us?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  As I said, Pethelpful and Dengarden as HP niche sites will no longer exist. TAG is implementing magazine sites specific to those niches. They will operate independently from HP. There's nothing to "buy" from the authors because exiting articles on those niche sites will be non-existent unless we request they be moved to Discover.HubPages.
  
  From what Lisa-Winter has told us, posting on TAG's magazine sites will be by invitation only. That said, she also mentioned there will be the capability to pitch article ideas to those sites (as most magazine sites require) and she will inform us if and when the procedures for doing so become available.
  
  I don't know of any sites that allow writers and wannabe writers to randomly post articles as HP has for decades. Those days are over.
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  viryaboposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Okay. They’ll become non-existent
  
  But WHY can’t they just move the articles to Discover just as they did the others? Why are those two websites treated differently from the others.
  
  Why do I have to ask to move them when I wasn’t asked before THEY moved my other articles from network sites in the first place?
  
  Why?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Excellent questions, Viryabo. Hopefully someone who can give you/us concrete answers to those questions will come in an remove the fog from the landscape.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  It seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong. They're hoping not everyone will move their content to Discover and then they can lawfully sublicence the remaining content on the new site if they wish. If they moved all content over as they did with the other niche sites, they would have nothing to start the new site with.
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  theraggededgeposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  That's exactly what I thought. There are a lot of people who won't be aware of what's about to happen to their work. Can you imagine how it would feel to not have access to your articles and to realise a corporate body is using them for its benefit?
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Bev, after I joined HubPages 10 years ago, I knew absolutely nothing about what was going on because I never, ever checked out the forums. A major earthquake could have happened at HP, but I would have known nothing about it.
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  viryaboposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  “ Why would they want to take over two blank websites?”
  
  Very apt question. Too many dark areas if you ask me.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Dengarden & Pethelpful will not exist on Hubpages after Oct. 31st. The articles contained within will not simply vanish. Lisa said content remaining on Pethelpful & Dengarden will no longer be able to earn us revenue, as they will be unaccessible to us due to the sites becoming their own entities and being rebranded/modeled to appear more like Parade and TAG's Lifestyle vertical.
  
  Like you, I suspect they are trying to take as much content with them as possible. Two empty sites are pretty useless.
  
  The TOS does grant them a sublicensable license. I'm assuming this means they can take the content legally even if we aren't paid. I'm not certain on the no longer have access to our content part, but I'm assuming that's allowed as well.
  
  I can't image anything illegal is going on. That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen, which they can't afford.
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  Cloverleafposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Ah, yes, the fine print. The sublicensable license means the Arena Group can use, distribute, and display our content how they wish. They don’t need to ask for our permission each time, and they can promote and distribute it how they wish. It essentially means we have less control over where and how our content is used once it’s uploaded.
  
  At least Lisa has given us the option to move our content to Discover and keep control of it there, and with plenty of notice. I'm not saying I'm happy about it but I guess this is within the scope of the rights we granted them when we agreed to the TOS.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  This thread within a thread has gotten long.
  
  This is what I’ve got from everything so far in the past week or so:
  
  1. If your Pethelpful and DenGarden articles aren’t moved to Discover before the change you won’t have access to them because they’ll no longer be in your HubPages account. You won’t find them in your list of articles.
  2. Arena wants to keep as many articles as possible so that the sites aren’t blank and the authority score doesn’t crash. It’s better to start from somewhere that already has a presence than from scratch.
  3. The HP staff page no longer includes editors. I’m unsure who will give us updates at this point besides Matt, and there is no telling how much is being communicated to him, everything or little? I don’t know. The moderators are our only allies in all of this.
  4. The articles we contributed to DenGarden and Pethelpful—I don’t think those are vanishing when they go into Arena’s hands. The articles will likely still be live unless Arena wants to remove them when they have enough new content to depend upon.
  5. The state of Arena isn’t great, so it’s honestly hard to say what really will materialize out of all of this. Arena could fall apart in the near future or be headed toward bankruptcy. It could somehow survive… but it’s stock share is under $1. And it has been that way since April.
  6. I am doubting Arena is paying HubPages for articles. Mostly because I don’t see Arena in a position to purchase anything… I think they’re just breaking things into parts.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I would say very sly. I do appreciate the update, Sue.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  It's good to see you're still around Matt. I will send an email, listing my articles for removal from Pethelpful and DenGarden.
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  Matt Wellsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  If you want all of your Dengarden and Pethelpful articles moved to Discover, you don't need to provide a list. Just email editors@hubpages.com and make the request.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Okay, Matt. Good to know!
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I just sent my email request, Matt. How long will it be before the move is made?
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  Titiaposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I've just send my request too.
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  Genna Eastposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Very helpful, Matt Thank you.
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  We already earn pennies compared to what TAG receives, so why would you request a split system? The authors do the work and TAG reaps the benefits, while sharing an extremely lopsided, unfair percentage with the authors that originate the revenue!
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Good point. I think my brain hurts from this development, and I was trying to think of a way not to have the Arena scheduled/curated method as the only option for DenGarden and Pethelpful.
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Why, Lis? It seems you're going to do that eventually anyway!
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  Bills Placeposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'm lucky I came to the forums. I've been trying to edit one of my articles that was on DenGarden, trying to figure out why it was flagged for "needs editing" suddenly after a year.
  
  The real kicker is that, with the exception of one Business article, most of my revenue-generating articles have been on DenGarden. However, after just now checking, that Business article is no longer on ToughNickle, either - now assuming that's the cause of recent traffic drops.
  
  My take on the original post is that they want to keep the aged domains instead of creating a new "jump through the hoops" publication site.
  
  Then, instead of moving everyone's articles back to HP and off DenGarden, they are giving people a grace period to "request it." After all, if they just sent everyone's articles back to HP/Discover, all the content wouldn't be pulling in traffic there.
  
  What gets me is the part about not receiving any revenue for our content if it is not moved back by October 31st. It feels like they are banking on inactive members who still pull revenue from old articles and do not catch this until it's too late.
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Shesabutterflyposted 8 weeks ago
Is Discover going to be curated and edited so we can have quality articles promoted? Articles being prioritized by newness is not beneficial for Discover when the only requirement is passing QAP.

Writing for a site that allows misinformation, plagiarism, and low quality articles to be promoted along side of, or instead of high quality created content is not ideal.
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  Lisa-Winterposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Discover will not be curated or edited, but it will continue to be moderated by our moderation staff.
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  Sustainable Sueposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  If we’re upset about low quality articles, it seems like we could help out by reporting them. The editors can’t be expected to see every article posted, and if they tried, it would slow down publication of ours as well.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I've reported multiple instances of low quality articles (in some cases multiple times) in addition to mass plagiarism, previously banned authors, AI, as well as other spammy content.
  
  The fact is they are still not removed in a timely manner if at all even when reported. I emailed Matt as he suggested earlier in this post, yet still some articles remain 3/4 days later. It is what it is at this point.
  
  We are writers, not curators/moderators of Discover. Maybe staff should come up with another way to auto moderate, as that is currently the only moderation of articles prior to being published on Discover.
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  Matt Wellsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  We will review reported accounts and remove them if they violate our terms of service. We will not remove accounts just because they are reported.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Fair enough.
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  Matt Wellsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Exactly, if you find an account with suspicious articles, you can flag the account for review or send an email to team@hubpages.com with a link to the account.
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eugbugposted 8 weeks ago
Is there any possibility of the old layout format being resurrected, now that there will only be one site to maintain? Staff seemed to have more control of layout in its previous format. From what I remember, two of the reasons for the new look was to maintain consistency across the pre-TAG Maven network of sites and also to allow more types of ads to be served.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Good question, Eugene. I'd love to see that happen.
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  So would I, but here I sit with bated breath....
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  viryaboposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  While we are at it, can they also consider getting Google Adsense back?
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Diane Cassposted 8 weeks ago
So you aren't going to pay us for our articles anymore? Are you going to buy our articles from us, like eHow did or are you just going to steal them from us and take the earnings for yourself. I have no idea which sites you've put my articles on. I don't see any indication on the dashboard as to where they are located. I have no idea how many of my articles are going to go dead for me. I'm pretty upset about this.
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  bravewarriorposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Diane, go into your account and filter the articles according to the available niche sites. That will tell you where your content lives.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Diane, I took a quick look at your articles. I saw one on DenGarden. However, email editors@hubpages.com and ask them to move your Pethelpful and DenGarden articles to Discover. That way, you are covered.
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  Sue Adamsposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
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  Diane Cassposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you. This is very helpful.
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Peggy Wposted 8 weeks ago
I am so happy that I read this announcement in time to do something about it. I have asked the editors to move my Pethelpful article and the 19 Dengarden articles back to Discover. It makes zero sense to me to let the Arena group take them and not share revenue with us. One of my Dengarden articles is typically the leader in views (and I can only assume revenue) in all of my 700+ articles.
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Rupert Taylorposted 8 weeks ago
"Discover will not be curated or edited ..." Well, there goes the neighbourhood, although, in truth, it has already gone.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  It does make me wonder how many editors they’re keeping. If the bulk of things are going to Discover with no editing and there are only a handful of niche sites, it seems things are about to change for staff.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I would’ve been very surprised if TAG suddenly started editing Discover.
  
  To be fair, a lot of editing work has happened over the past few years in the niches. Rather than rewarding these efforts, Google was kinder to the unedited Discover.
  
  It’s still sad though, it feels like the end of an era.
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  SerenityHaloposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Did we have editing before the niche sites? I believe we did, but I’m not sure I’m remembering things correctly.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  I believe we did, but not nearly as substantial as on the niches.
  
  Honestly I'm not too concerned about the editing of individual articles. However, something does need to change in regard to the submission/monitoring of articles prior to being moved to Discover. It's tiresome reporting multiple articles daily, and feels like a losing battle.
  
  I was hoping that editing/curation and monitoring would happen more to the Discover site itself rather than individual articles. I guess if it's ranking higher though, they wouldn't see a need for it.
  
  The newest article format looks good for presenting the site as up-to-date, but the quality is not always there. Hundreds if not thousands of articles were dumped to Discover and we can't find them. I realize search engine traffic was always the gold standard, but seeing how that has been on a steady decline for some time, a little less reliance on them might not be a bad thing.
  
  I think it was Barbara who had mentioned some ideas for making the site more bookmarkable so to speak, where readers come straight to the site rather than through a search query. I don't know how practical that is, but a reader/author "relationship" would be nice to have again.
  
  Either way, a better user experience and site design could keep readers around longer and might bring us back into the good graces of Google. Unfortunately it sounds like they don't care about most of the little people who helped those verticals become successful nor reformatting HP so it can potentially turn a positive corner again.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree with many of the points you’ve made here.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  So do I.
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Miebakagh57posted 8 weeks ago
How couldn't hubpages.discover be edited? Are the editors at hubpages really professionals? Is it because authors here here do quarterly or half yearly edited their stuffs that gives some leeway though? And critically, I've read, read, and re-read my posts, and stories or articles. I found errors, lacuna, or omissions. Editors could be in a posion to either corrected or communicated these to us writers. It's so done with hubpages.com in the past. And critically again, now that Discover is bigger than hubpages.com how come Discover not fit or qualify for editing? Beats my brain.
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Sue Adamsposted 8 weeks ago
The Bigger Picture
We, poor authors, are mere sardines in the swamp of the huge disgusting smelly fish pond (the stock market) that is the gambling playground of billionaires. Face facts, the end of slavery is but an illusion.

Catch up
Here is some recent history about the Arena group.
. CEO Ross Levinsohn has resigned.
. Stock has plummeted from around $10 a share a year ago to under a dollar this week (Source: Jan 20, 2024)

Arena Group Stock Value Today (Sat 17 Aug 2024) $0.77

Sources
Sports Illustrated mess spells trouble for the Arena Group
Arena Stock Value Today
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  From what I can tell, The Arena Group is about to be delisted on the stock exchange. I don’t know all the inner workings of what that means, but it’s a bad position. Stocks under $1 can only stay that way for so long before they’re delisted.
  
  Unless TAG runs HP into the ground, I think it will end up having to sell it. It’s possible that many of the niches were broken up to no longer have to pay for different sites. Granted, many of them did suffer from poor traffic and low authority scores.
  
  The move to break off Pethelpful and DenGarden is even more upsetting in the event that HP is sold.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Even if HP is sold, the only way we HP writers can earn from what was Pethelpful and Dengarden is to pitch article ideas to TAG on their respective platforms for those topics. If they're accepted and scheduled for publication, authors will be compensated. This presents several questions in my mind:
  
  1. To whom should the pitches be addressed and what are the pitching guidelines?
  2. Once a pitch is accepted, how is/are the article(s) to be submitted?
  3. When does payment occur?
  4. What is the rate of compensation?
  5. How is payment rendered? PayPal? Direct deposit? Check?
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Those are all good questions. It upsets me that HP is getting separated from Pethelpful and DenGarden. Those were two of the strongest functioning niche sites. They're taking away some of the most valuable and strongest standest parts of HP.
  
  And as you're putting it, there are roadblocks now if we want to try and publish on those sites in the future, the ones we helped build. It's a whole new system.
  
  I don't know if a "contributor" is a freelance position or a paid position. I assume since it's not a revenue share... instead the writer receives a flat fee for their article(s). Perhaps based on a word count or just an established figure.
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  SerenityHaloposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  And it appears you get paid if you add new content to DenGarden and Pethelpful. All the old articles they're taking with them, the ones that people didn't request off... there doesn't appear to be any compensation for those, at least according with what we've been told so far.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  It would behoove HP to come into this thread and answer these questions. They've been very vague/secretive in telling us exactly what the imminent fate of Dengarden and Pethelpful means to writers on the current platform. Don't just tell us we won't earn if we choose to leave our articles on the soon-to-be-defunct niche sites. Tell us how to access/communicate with the new sites.
  
  Pitching to a site/publication is not easy, nor does it guarantee acceptance. That was the beauty of HP. There was no pitching involved. We posted and waited to see if our articles were featured, if they resulted in, interaction (comments), page views, Google SERPS, etc. and we were (meagerly) compensated for posting informative, engaging, entertaining, educational articles. For decades the platform worked. It gave writers a stage on which to test - and improve upon - their writing prowess. HP encouraged creativity and gave aspiring writers the confidence to move forward in their dreams of creating a legacy.
  
  I sincerely hope HP will consider returning to the original platform. However, I would suggest that they be a bit more selective in who can post. Perhaps give a writer test to weed out AI generated copy and folks who do not have a command of the English language.
  
  We've all been through the multitudinous changes that HP has embarked upon in an effort to stay afloat and have reaped/accepted the consequences. But this latest development does nothing to keep the spirit alive and muses actively whispering in our ears.
  
  To paraphrase, let's make HubPages great again! (This is by no means meant to insinuate any type of political affiliation. I am not political in the loosest sense of the word, but I surely want this space to be what it once was.) I'll gladly don my bell-bottomed jeans and huarache sandals to go back in time!
  
  Peace,
  Bravewarrior
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Perhaps that is their intention, selling HubPages and Discover.
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Miebakagh57posted 8 weeks ago
The stock value at the moment is a sorry sight. Therefore, it's no wonder we writers are at the end of the rabbit tail to wait for peanut pays, or no pay period.
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Grip55posted 8 weeks ago
My question is - Will it be worth it to me to continue to keep writing on Hub Pages? I wonder if this demise has to do with the fall of newspapers that are closing all around the country, and the decline of the advertising dollar. I figure I should ask someone who actually saw this platform at its finest. I have eleven articles, and I promote them on Facebook and I have a loyal following, that pretty much reads whatever I write.
I was wondering what you thought. Remember my first email to you, and I would appreciate it if you didn't mention that content, but you knew I had a friend. I just wonder if I would be better off, putting my efforts elsewhere, what do you think?
Stay or Go? I know its my decision, but I don't swim anymore, and I am asking your advise.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 weeks agoin reply to this
  Grip, since you are new to HP, I recommend checking other platforms. I am sticking around but barely doing anything. My revenue is holding, so I am not going anywhere. However, I may move my movie articles to my website because its theme is movies. My YouTube is doing well and is connected to my website.
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ControlledChaos1posted 7 weeks ago
Does anyone have any experiences as to how long it takes after emailing management to move your PetHelpful and DenGarden articles to Discover where you can actually earn money?
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I asked Matt how long it would take, but have not seen a response. I emailed the editors with my "move" request a couple of days ago. As of today (08.19.2024) I still have articles on both sites. I would imagine the move won't occur until closer to the end of October.
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  If you read the announcement, Pethelpful and DenGarden still earn you revenue until Oct 31st. I don't see the hurry.
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  ControlledChaos1posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I missed that. The move probably won't happen until then. Thanks.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, as others have said, you carry on earning money until the move at the end of October.
  
  I think my problem will be if it gets halfway through October and the articles haven't been moved. That's when I'll start to be concerned.
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  Kenna McHughposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  I am not worried about it, so it's no problem.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Goo to note that.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Oh so sorry for the typo ('Good') to note that.
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  Miebakagh57posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  OMG! What? Who has the experience at such a critical time frame? Are you imaging or dreaming?
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Jodahposted 7 weeks ago
I have just sent an email asking for all my articles from PetHelpful and Dengarden to be transferred to Discover. I hope we don’t have request each one individually.
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  bravewarriorposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  John, Matt said we just need to make a global request; no need to provide a list. I've already done so, but don't expect to see them having been moved until closer to the October 31st deadline.
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Jodahposted 7 weeks ago
Thank you for that, Shauna.
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Rupert Taylorposted 7 weeks ago
Sue - You can kill your articles and re-post them, but you'll need to wait a few weeks for them to be de-indexed otherwise they'll be flagged as duplicate content.

However, as Cholee points out, duplicate content, AI crap, spam, and other transgressions float past the gatekeepers untouched these days, even if flagged by writers.

Standards have dropped here to the point that they don't seem to exist at all.
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  Matt Wellsposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Please send examples of this to team@hubpages.com and we will review.
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  Genna Eastposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  Matt, I think one excellent example of this is outlined in the recent thread Rupert posted: “Growing Followers.” Any feedback you and Team@hubpges.com could provide would be greatly appreciated.
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Maria Ceciliaposted 7 weeks ago
sure I will do that...
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  Maria Ceciliaposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this
  apologies for my reply but it was meant for the other thread. I started writing for hubpages in 2010. but became inactive when my 9am to 6pm worked started to get so demanding. I have few articles in Pet helpful and i think my most popular is my story about my dog with Perineal hernia, I decided to write about my dog's ailment because I wanted that story to be the source of information because when my dog had it I had no one to ask aside from the veterinarians and internet but no active dog owner who can understand where am I coming from. I was sad when comment section was deleted. but anyway, I don't really earn big time from hubpages but I really appreciate getting paid from it.
  
  My concern is not to have access with the articles that I really wrote from the heart, so I will email the team for my articles to be transferred too.
  
  I am sad for pethelpful, people discovered me through the site. Wish I could say more. but happy to be here and realized all the changes..
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Sue Adamsposted 7 weeks ago
OK, thank you for clarifying Shauna. It still seems strange though that the current content of the 2 best performing niche sites will vanish unless it's moved to Discovery.
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robhamptonposted 6 weeks ago
How do I know if these articles are REALLY deleted? I'm a bit suspect that TAG may still use these. If that happens to be the case in the future, could I file a dmca complaint at that point?
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  They should still be there. Set your filter to Discover. That's where my Pethelpful and Dengarden articles now live.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  They may keep them per the TOS for a commercially reasonable time, but I think that's only for legal purposes.
  
  Are you planning to post your articles elsewhere? That would likely make it easier for you to file a DMCA, if they do happen to use your deleted articles. I don't think they can use them though if they are gone from the site.
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  robhamptonposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  No, I'm planning on just deleting all articles as I'm focusing more on videos/youtube now. I joined in 2010, it's been a pretty good run. Some years were quite profitable. Just going to delete all and be done with it. I do wish all who have moved to Discover the best and who knows, maybe something good will happen with Discover and the great writers and dedicated authors on here will start making some money again.
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  Miebakagh57posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  So be it.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree. My YT is profitable and does well.
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  Sue Adamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Is this your youtube channel Kenna?
  https://www.youtube.com/@kennamchugh7758/featured
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  That one is a default. Here is my YT channel. https://www.youtube.com/@KennaMcHugh
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  Sue Adamsposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  OK, I was wondering. This one has much better stats.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes. The stats are better and growing.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks for clarifying, Kenna. When I clicked on the link, the first thumbnail I saw was of John Lennon. I subscribed to Disney+ for two months just so I could watch "Get Back" as many times as I wanted. John Lennon is one of my favorite singer/songwriters. "Imagine" is my mantra song.
  
  I look forward to going through your YT site. I always enjoyed the articles you had on Spinditty and made it a point to read your new posts. I will be sure to follow your YT channel so I stay current with your work.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Shauna, you're welcome. Yes. That documentary about the Beatles is fabulous. I am happy to say I worked with McCartney once as the assistant camera operator. He is such a nice person.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  That's amazing, Kenna! What a boost to your resume! Especially since he met Linda when she was a photographer in the '60s. Her father was key in bringing Kodak-Eastman (Kodak cameras) products to the public. I'd love to know more of your history. Do you also have a website?
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Shauna, I don't have a website to promote my work yet.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Neither do I. It's on my to-do list, but I'm not even close!
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  Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Wow! Nice to know the real people here. I have subscribed too. I am a television producer and scriptwriter. It feels good to find someone from the same profession here. Also, I never knew Linda had been a photographer.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Cool. Do you write and produce Indian films? Linda was a very talented photographer. Thanks for subscribing.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  I produce regional-language television documentaries, talk shows, and current affairs programmes. Also, I occasionally take up NGO video projects, if they are challenging and meaningful. I have this suggestion. You, or someone who knows Linda closely must write a copy here on her.
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  bravewarriorposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  To further my love of John Lennon, the glasses I'm wearing in my profile pic are official John Lennon brand (started and maintained by Yoko, whom I really don't care for) and I had them tinted rose because I've always touted myself as wearing rose-colored glasses with regard to my outlook on the world and humanity.
  
  I have always been a fan of yours, Kenna, and have subscribed to your channel.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  John Lennon and The Beatles have been my favorites. I am sometimes surprised to hear a familiar song and discover that George Harrison wrote and sang it. Yoko is quite a character.
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Sustainable Sueposted 6 weeks ago
Looks like they might have gone out of business by now. Here's a link to one of their articles in a new format they developed after I started writing for them. It's not mine, but it shows you the type of magazine it was.
https://issuu.com/tsbreview15/docs/tsbr_quarter_2_2018
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Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks ago
That's great, Deepa. I've produced similar shows here in the US when cable was prominent. I agree that challenging and meaningful content fuels my desire to create. Thank you for the suggestion. I am hesitant to write anything on HP right now for obvious reasons.
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Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks ago
I understand. This uncertainty is unsettling. Let us see what happens.
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  Kenna McHughposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree.
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Miebakagh57posted 6 weeks ago
I don't think they'll be any network sites again, when all articles are being moved to hubpages Discover.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  The traffic to my articles is going down. Is this the case with all of you? Is it because of these changes?
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  JerryFisherposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes it is with me but also the hub score on some articles has gone from 90/95 to 65/70 without any changes since they've been transferred to Discover. I also note the CPM can sometimes be around $5.50 each day which is half what it was a few months ago. I guess the CPM is the same for everyone right? I think CPM is the rate advertisers are willing to pay for spot advertising like this - so this is a sure indicator of the site bottoming out if that's the case.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your valuable input. Won't Discover HubPages attract more traffic when more articles shift there? I was hoping it would. The lack of transparency is frustrating.
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  JerryFisherposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Well you'd hope so. I don't know if that's their thinking or whether it's a way to lump all the niches together to rationalise on staff costs.
  I agree it is very frustrating with the lack of information or future optimism from Arena.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  "CPM is the same for everyone right?"
  
  No, CPM varies wildly according to which topics are covered. That's because the value derives from how lucrative the keywords used are for advertisers.
  
  For example, one article might have a CPM that's ten times more valuable than another.
  
  The CPM figure for an author's articles in the stats is an overall average CPM figure for that account.
  
  I have ten accounts and the CPM is different for each, sometimes by a wide margin.
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  eugbugposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Comparing apples with apples, my CPM last year was maybe 80% higher last year than it is this year and 100% higher in 2022. In 2021 it was 120% higher. I presume as traffic falls or when ranking of sites falls, final bids in the auto-bidding for is lower, for those type of ads. Or does the bidding system have any knowledge of traffic and ranking stats?
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  PaulGoodman67posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, there are certainly large scale trends. There was a time when CPMs were high enough that we earned well even when traffic wasn’t really that great.
  
  Google AdWords gives a sense of the relative value of keywords compared to others but we can only guess at the bigger trend. As they fluctuate from day to day, the underlying CPM trend is usually best estimated over weeks/months IMHO.
  
  It’s definitely lower nowadays compared with years gone by.
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Deepa damodaranposted 6 weeks ago
Hope there are be more frequent updates from the admin.
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Nell Roseposted 5 weeks ago
Luckily I only had one to transfer. But I have emailed it to Hubpages. Good thing I checked here on the forums
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Sue Adamsposted 5 weeks ago
I clicked on every link re niche sites on the feed,

and this is the result today, 04/09/24.

Zoom in (cmd+ or ctr+) for better viewing.
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  theraggededgeposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  HobbyLark?
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  HobbyLark still has it's own. https://hobbylark.com/
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  Sue Adamsposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Ye, sorry, I missed that one. Like Kenna pointed out, HobbyLark it's still there and should be on my list in blue.
  
  The other thing I noticed is that HealDove.com has vanished. When you Google it, it points to Discover. Some (or all?) of its articles have moved to healthproadvice.com.
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sue, No worries. It isn't apparent what is happening.
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Rupert Taylorposted 5 weeks ago
Lisa writes "I'm not sure what's going on." Welcome to our world Lisa. I received the following email a few days ago.

"Thank you for submitting your article, The Depravity of Fascism, for consideration on Owlcation. Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting submissions to HubPages Network Sites except for HobbyLark, WeHaveKids, WanderWisdom, Owlcation, LetterPile, and Delishably.

"We constantly strive to ensure that articles achieve the best possible visibility and engagement. As such, we are in the process of moving all articles currently on Network Sites back to Discover HubPages, and we believe your article has the potential to attract more traffic and generate higher earnings on the Discover HubPages domain."

I draw your attention to "we are in the process of moving all articles currently on Network Sites back to Discover."

The article in question is not doing well on Discover. Of course, it might be that nobody is interested in the topic and it would have bombed on Owlcation as well. But, historically, my articles have always done better on Network sites than on Discover.

Hey ho.
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  SerenityHaloposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Possibly there is something wrong with the form letter or algorithm at HP that needs to be addressed. Maybe they do actually want articles for those remaining niches. I assumed they didn’t… things are very odd.
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  chef-de-jourposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Those who don't know what they're doing, thinking or saying have taken over the Department for Cock-Ups&Contradiction.
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Sue Adamsposted 5 weeks ago
"Thank you for submitting your article... for consideration on Owlcation. Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting submissions to HubPages Network Sites except for HobbyLark,... Owlcation,..."

????
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Rupert Taylorposted 5 weeks ago
Yes Sue. It's a trifle puzzling ain't it? No wonder Lisa is confused.
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Deepa damodaranposted 5 weeks ago
My articles have been moved from DenGarden and PetHelpful as requested and I got an email notification about it yesterday.
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Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks ago
So far, so good.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  What about Owlcation and other sites? It is still unclear if they will stay. Are we to send emails about them as well? The discussion thread is too long. Did I miss anything about what is happening with the sites other than DenGarden and PetHelfpul? Could someone tell me, please?
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  Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Are you still on OlwCation, DenGarden, and PetHelpful? No. You requested your articles on these sites be moved to Discover, and it was done. Don't you appreciated that?
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Rupert Taylorposted 5 weeks ago
Miebakagh - It's Twitter not Twinter, now known as X. Aside from that, I don't understand your post.
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  Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  But did Lisa-Winter wrote: twitter@thearenagroup...? Nope. She wrote: twinter@thearenagroup... I'm just seeking clarification about the email address. whether it even end in dot com/. And whether you understand my last paragraphe or not, is not an issue to me.
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  theraggededgeposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  She didn't - it's L as in lwinter. It's her initial followed by surname.
  
  lwinter@thearenagroup.net
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  Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Bev. I see it much clearer now. lwinter (Lisa Winter) being her name. Email addresses are always write in small letters. And being very unfamiliar with this lady, I'm not able to discern it easily. Thanks again.
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  Glenn Stokposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  It's Lwinter not Twitter ( her first initial and her last name). And the ending is net, not com. So her correct email, as she posted, is lwinter@thearenagroup.net
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  theraggededgeposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Snap!
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  Glenn Stokposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Ha ha. We both responded at the same time.
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  Glenn Stokposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Rupert, he is not asking about Twitter/X. He's asking about Lisa's email address. I posted the correct answer just now.
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  Miebakagh57posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Glenn.
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viryabo2posted 5 weeks ago
I wish to close down one of my HP accounts. The one I had to create during the Squidoo takeover.

My question is, will my existing balance on the account be paid, despite it not being up to the $50 payout?
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  bravewarriorposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Not until it reaches the $50 threshold. I'd wait until that account pays before deleting it.
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  viryabo2posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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Rupert Taylorposted 4 weeks ago
Sherry, that's what it looks like. To summarize a very long thread, you can request that your Dengarden and Pethelpful articles be moved to Discover before October 31st. See Lisa Winter's posting at the top of the thread.

If you don't get them moved then Arena takes control of them and you don't get a dime. Slam, bang, thank you mam.
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PaulGoodman67posted 4 weeks ago
UPDATE: My Dengarden and Pethelpful articles were moved to Discover.

Concerned about how long it was taking, I emailed the editors a second time and Lisa kindly moved them just over a week ago.

As Rupert says above, it's important to have the articles moved if you want to retain control and earn from them.

I expect that there will be many hubbers who don't read the forums or newsletters. They may well be angry and upset after October 31st when they discover that they missed the bus.
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  Miebakagh57posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Its a pity that some writers here don't take the trouble to check their email inbox. The inbox is an alternative avenue for notifications and newsletters and, when they don't appear on 'feed' screen or settings.
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  theraggededgeposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  But when HP don't take the trouble to send notifications or newsletters, the Inbox is bare.
  
  It's simple enough to filter emails to show only those from HubPages.
  
  Edit: the first (and only) email announcement of the changes was on 29th Aug. Perhaps they should send it every couple of weeks in case people missed it?
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  PaulGoodman67posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  The number of emails/newsletters isn't the primary problem for me.
  
  The underlying concern is that most people wrote and published their articles believing (not unreasonably) that they owned them no matter what and that situation would continue indefinitely.
  
  This shift in rights and ownership is effectively being imposed retrospectively.
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  Miebakagh57posted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Bev, I think you're right. But would hubpages or TAG send reminders as you suggest? I think that is easy with them.
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theraggededgeposted 4 weeks ago
HubPages has everyone's emails. Whether the one linked to their account or a different one linked to PayPal. Every single contributor to DenGarden and PetHelpful should be contacted and given the option to have their articles moved. It would not look good for HP if they don't do this.
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Bev, in general, HP has done many things that do not look good.
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  theraggededgeposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yep, and if someone tried to take legal action, the ToU will show that anything on the platform belongs to HP. This is going to cause some people a lot of stress and heartbreak.
  
  Edit: Not HP, TAG.
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yup is right. The stress and heartbreak have started, for me, anyway.
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  theraggededgeposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  For sure, and you, like the rest of us here, are aware of what is happening. Imagine someone logging into their account after 31st Oct and after being away from the platform for some time. I would be devastated if I'd lost access to my own work. Talk about a kick in the gut.
  
  I hope staff will be amenable to deleting articles on request post Oct 31st.
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  bravewarriorposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Good point, Bev. That certainly wasn't addressed in Lisa's original post.
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  I am sure there will be those who did not know. Yes, the staff should be amenable. What I don't get is why they don't just move them over. What benefit do the writers have if they are not moved over to Discover?
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  PaulGoodman67posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  It's not just what's happening now, or about to happen, with many people losing ownership of their work that's concerning. It really doesn't bode well for the future, now that this precedent has been established.
  
  The only way to ensure ownership, it seems, is to publish on your own site. Whatever agreements that are made at the time of joining or publishing here appear meaningless, as they may change at any point.
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  Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  That's truth being spoken.
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  eugbugposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Whether Google will index it is another matter. They certainly don't bother indexing Blogger content.
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Sue Adamsposted 4 weeks ago
Kenna: "What I don't get, is: why they don't just move them over?"

They don't move them over because if they did, then there would be no content left on those sites.
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Sue and Bev, Of course. Such connivers.
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theraggededgeposted 4 weeks ago
It feels as if it's all been planned. Set up all these network sites, see which ones become successful, and then harvest the content, discard the rest. I didn't write for either one, but they were built on the hard work of writers who don't even know what their percentage of ad earnings are/were. Seems like exploitation. Especially of the people who haven't a clue what is about to happen to their articles.
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Anne Ryefieldposted 4 weeks ago
I feel the best move for me is to remove my content altogether. I don't make much money here; perhaps $100 a year. I don't put much effort into it, so I'm not particularly fussed about the low income. However, I certainly don't feel comfortable losing access to the work I did put effort into.
I will not reach the payout threshold by Halloween, but I'm okay with eating the $8 or so I've earned since last payout. I'm not so hard up for money as to complain over that little amount.
I am disappointed that HP and TAG have continuously refused to be absolutely clear on their updates over the years. Most of it feels like hearsay and we shouldn't have to cobble together the truth through bits of responses from people who aren't official staff (no offense meant to many of those who are in the Know of the current situation). I don't understand why being direct with the people who have built this site through writing content is difficult, if not impossible, to do.

It's not that difficult to say "We are doing this thing. The results of this thing are these things. These things will affect you in these ways." Instead, dozens of writers are confused and panicking every time there's an update. It's also not difficult to say "At this time, we don't know the answer. We will do our best to answer your questions in the next few days. Here is what we do know and how it may affect you."
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  Sue Adamsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  HubPages "About Us" page proudly pitches itself with huge numbers as shown below today 15th September 2024:
  https://hubpages.com/about/us
  
  In reality, there are only 4 staff members left. How can they possibly cope with curating 640.906 articles AND keeping 36,142 writers informed of the goings on in the TAG stratosphere?
  https://hubpages.com/about/team
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  WriterJanisposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  I think this is what they have accomplished since they first started years ago, not something that reflects how the situation is now.
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  Sue Adamsposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Exactly. But why not be truthful and update the page?
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  viryaboposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this
  Precisely!
  “Truthful” is the keyword.
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psycheskinnerposted 3 weeks ago
What seems to be missing is instructions about how to move our content off the sites that will no longer be paid for. I have content on pethelpful and I am not interested on giving it away for free but I can't see any option to get to moved.
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Lisa's post says to email HuibPages. Ask them to move your articles over to Discover. It worked for me. team@hubpages.com
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Email Lisa Winter and ask for them to be moved to Discover. Her email address is: lwinter@thearenagroup.net
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes. Lisa and help, too.
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Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks ago

Source
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  SerenityHaloposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  This is a good reminder to everyone to backup your articles. TAG is nearing 6 months of below a dollar stock shares. I believe after 6 months it goes to OTC, and at that point TAG will likely be scrambling.
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  At this point, I'm really over it. It doesn't matter what TAG's stock worth is. The fact remains that we writers have been paid little to nothing all along. So where has our share of their revenue been all these years? We are supposed to be paid for our contributions, not buy stock in a company that has no solid forward vision! TAG capitalized on what HP and its contributing writers created. They came in and scarfed up on what they thought was a sure thing. We all lose in the end.
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  SerenityHaloposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree with you. I am not suggesting buying stock. It’s more that TAG’s fate in all this is looking grim. It looks like it is headed for bankruptcy or something of the sort.
  
  That’s why it’s important to backup articles now or there might not be an opportunity later.
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Rupert Taylorposted 3 weeks ago
Goodness me, that a spectacular price collapse, Sue. Who's running this outfit? Trump.
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  No, I am pretty sure it is the same administration that is in charge of the economy in the US. Isnt that Biden and Harris?
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  Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Boys, boys - please keep your politics to yourselves. We've got enough problems with the tangles of corporate greed.
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Too true! I am not even sure why he had to add that last comment on there but I am here working on something else so I had to add my nasty reply.
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I understand, Dr. Mark. It's so tempting. In the long run, it's best to ignore it.
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, kind of hard to do sometimes. I was talking to a friend in the US the other day and she told me how some of the changes Trump made for the veterans improved her life. She then told me she plans on voting for Harris despite all the problems she as had because of the new policies from the White House.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I interpreted Rupert's comment as a satirical joke about the recent Trump's media stock falls, which have followed a similar pattern to what's happened with TAG.
  
  I believe that it was both relevant and effective satire.
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I hope you are correct and I am wrong. I interpeted it as him blaming the guy who has been out of office for 4 years for the current mismanagement, which is kind of like blaming Paul for selling to Maven.
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  Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I like both interpretations, especially this bit: "...like blaming Paul for selling to Maven."
  
  Source
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I wonder if he sold HP for Maven stock options?
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Wow, that's pretty revealing and personal, Dr. Mark. You do know Paul pops in on these forums, right?
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  That was so many years ago that I do not recall the details of the deal, but did he mainly sell for stock options? I am not sure where Sue found those numbers but they seem pretty low based on all the work he put into this site back when he was here. I would like to hear his comments on how he thinks these changes are going.
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  Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  For more details about Paul's transactions click on the Source link in my previous post (or here). It appears that Paul's fortune diminished over time.
  Still, I wouldn't turn up my nose at what he gained from our labour.
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  So would I! I'd also like to hear his take on the stats you posted here.
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Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks ago
It's OK Mark.

Here is another observation:
On the "Our Brands" page of The Arena Group (TAG), HubPages is listed as part of Parade.

DenGarden, PetHelpful and Fashionista are specific niche sites but HubPages is a generic site covering many different topics. Scroll down to the bottom of the Parade page to see the many topics it covers. Very similar to HubPages.

Is it therefore not most probable that, eventually, when they get around to it, all suitable HubPages content will be gobbled up by Parade/TAG?
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  Shesabutterflyposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  HubPages has been listed under Parade for a couple years now, if not from the beginning. If you scroll up, they still have ToughNickel under TheStreet, despite it being dumped into Discover.
  
  I think rather than giving HubPages it's own section with their niche sites, they simply put a handful under each of TAG's sections and included HP with Parade, because as you noted they are essentially the same thing.
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Rupert Taylorposted 3 weeks ago
Thank you Paul for pointing out that my comment was intended to be satirical, but it fell into the jaws of Poe's Law.

This states that "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article."

Nathan Poe propounded his law with regard to creationism but it has since been applied to almost any satirical or sarcastic comment on the internet.
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  DrMark1961posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  My apologies. I have seen that a lot of that on the internet, when a comment is made satirically but does not come across that way to the reader. I see people posting satire all the time on Instagram and people getting furious in the comment section, unable to recognize satire without actual human contact. It would have been obvious if we were in the same room and I would have probably laughed instead of making a comment about Biden and Harris.
  Did you hear of Elon Musks reply to Gavin Newsome when he threatened to outlaw his satirical Harris advertisement? He told Newsome that he had consulted with expert Professor Sugon Deeznutz, and found that satire was still legal.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'm glad that's been cleared up.
  
  Maybe my British upbringing makes me more familiar with the deployment of sarcasm and irony.
  
  Maybe being a news junky made me more aware of the Trump stocks debacle.
  
  But I didn't think that the joke was particularly obscure.
  
  Rupert may live in Canada and be a little long in the tooth, but it seemed most unlikely to me that he was too gaga to know who the president of the USA was and was firing off some sort of random, literal comment.
  
  In my experience, as much as fifty percent of what Rupert says is either sarcastic or ironic.
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Rupert Taylorposted 3 weeks ago
I never intended to hijack this thread. It's time to return it to its original purpose.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure that there's much new to be said about this four-week-old thread. The discussion had already become more scattered and generalized.
  
  That said, I'd still be unwilling to get it into a deep discussion on US politics.
  
  I suspect that this thread would have sunk below the waves and disappeared from the forum's front page if it wasn't pinned to the top by virtue of being an official announcement.
  
  Of course, it has to stay pinned. There will no doubt be many writers who are unaware of what is about to happen to their articles.
  
  Many of the people who most need to see this thread won't see it.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Meanwhile, views and earnings continue to decline for me following the Discover move.
  
  I'm willing to give it some time, as a mass relocation of articles can take time to settle. But when increasing numbers of my articles get zero views, there doesn't seem like much to keep me here.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, views are declining drastically. I hope that the company has a plan to deal with this. It will be a terrible disaster if thousands of good writers on this platform are forced to relocate their articles. A little transparency about this would have been good.
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  theraggededgeposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  It's very clear, tbh.
  
  1. Articles left on two sites are to be taken by Arena unless the writers request they be moved to Discover.
  
  2. Articles on Discover will be left completely alone by HubPages to sink or swim.
  
  What we do need transparency on is the apportionment of ad income - we used to know, but don't any more.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes, the majority of articles will go to Discover and the move is intended to be permanent.
  
  The chances of HP developing a plan to change or reverse anything now are essentially zero.
  
  I suspect that the traffic and earnings got so low, HP no longer cares if they sink even further.
  
  While they were still busy editing to bring us back to life, I was confident that HP was still interested. I think that's over now.
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  bravewarriorposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  Amen to that, Bev!
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  Kenna McHughposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  It's pitiful.
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Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks ago
Many of us here do diverted from the original thread from time to time. It's a plus for the mind, as this introduced variety.
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Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks ago
Less than 15 people are participating in this thread. If we have about 36000 published writers (HP claims), the percentage of writers aware of the situation is 0.041%.
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Math is so disheartening at times.
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  Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes. And it's one of my favourite subject at school. My daughters carry the gene in they blood. Two days ago, I was proving a point with geometry to a certain Canadian geek here. And I'm yet to know he has made any sense out of the issue.
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  Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  By those 'aware of' the thread, d' you include those writers observing us, but not participating? Some of us authors here are like readers, reading. But hardly put in a word or two on the topic. Yes, I've been in that class on some class.
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Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks ago
I am not a particularly big earner here and have now only 37 articles left (after I deleted many that weren't doing well).

The ship may be sinking, but think of it like this:

On the Upside
If I add up all my earnings from "Balance History", from when I joined 14 years ago (Sept.2011) until today, my total income from HP amounts to roughly $16K of passive income. Would I have earned as much per article published elsewhere? I don't think so.

We've had a good run; time to move on. The public prefers watching informative videos to reading endless lines interrupted by intrusive adverts. As Kenna says, it's maybe time to improve our YouTube skills.
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  letstalkabouteducposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I think that's a healthy way to look at it. Once they took away the ability to comment, we were doomed. Readers really want to interact with articles.
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  Sue Adamsposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Right. On YouTube, ppl can leave comments. That's what makes it interesting.
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  Miebakagh57posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Well, yes. But don't hubpages people know this? They they certainly do. But why don't their do the right thing? Instead bastardised Hubpages? ROJO, and associated comment systems are not worth the while.
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Yes. And Google wants that, too. TAG threw HP under a rock when they took that feature away.
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  eugbugposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  The could just switch back to the old website format to restore comments, but probably aren't allowed.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  There are a lot of things they could have done if the will had existed.
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carnyposted 3 weeks ago
I'm confused as to why redirects from the niche domains to discover hubpages weren't implemented. I had a hub on Turbofuture that had gotten a few links from around the web and was receiving steady traffic. It was moved to Discover but the old address on Turbofuture doesn't redirect to the new one. Instead it just says "No item found". This is quite wasteful of the traffic that Turbofuture articles were receiving.
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  chef-de-jourposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'd email Matt Wells and the team, he should be able to explain why this is or isn't happening.
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ControlledChaos1posted 2 weeks ago
This may have already been discussed, but can anyone see any kind of benefit to leave articles that will be given to Arena when you don't even get paid?
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  theraggededgeposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  There is no benefit to the writer at all.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  I'm sure that HP would be the first to tell us about all the benefits for the writers if they existed.
  
  However, as Bev says, apparently you lose the earnings and all control of the articles and that's it. Losing control is particularly bad as it's irreversible.
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Anne Ryefieldposted 2 weeks ago
How long has it been taking to have articles moved back to Discover?
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  Kenna McHughposted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  It varies. Some take one day, others take weeks.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  From earlier in this thread:
  
  "...if I don't respond to you within 2 business days, please email me directly at lwinter@thearenagroup.net with your request"
  
  Lisa-Winter
  reply report

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