Would this be standard practice or should you only follow the hubbers that really interest you?
Depends how vain you are. I reject follow trolls.
i used to but not anymore. too many sockpuppets around. i wait a lot longer to follow people these days...
I think that second part is right, only follow those you are interested in enough to read their work and help them if need be. Fanning just lasts a moment and then your hot again anyways
Depend on your Choice
what people you like you follow them.
Only if I find their hubs interesting. Surprisingly, most of them are pretty good so I end up returning the 'follow' favor about 90% of the time.
I do not reject any fans but I only follow writers who interest me.
oh oh.. i thought etiquette demanded that one replies to all fan requests by sending nude pictures of oneself?
I REALLY have to start reading the Hubpages FAQs
Greek One...i wud like 2 follo 2... where are you going?
OK, Greek One, I'm a fan, so where's my nude pic?
I was thinking the same thing!
I couldn't afford blinds for my windows so I walked around Naked with the lights on until my Neighbors chipped in and bought me some!
...[[[Stolen from a TV comedian]]]...
On hubpages followers is not the same thing as friends on other Social Networking web sites. I only follow those who write about topics I care to read.
I wouldn't follow anyone unless I liked where I was going.... in real life and HP alike!
I'd follow you and Pretty without a second thought though....!
so are you saying that if you thought about it for a second, you wouldn't? lol
I follow only about three dozen people, but have close to 2000 followers.
There's no way I'd consider following most of the people who are following me. The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality nor on topics which interest me.
Glad I'm not following you; I might feel extremely insulted.
I don't think I've ever read such an arrogant message on the Forums. Absolutely shocking!
This person deserves no Followers at all.
I know it's hard, but try not to take these things personally. I'll give you an honest example: When I first joined here, there is a hubber with one of the highest scores here, and I took the time to read his hubs and comment on several of them, but not only were none of the comments acknowledged (all positive genuine words of praise) but my fan mail was not even approved! (And I'm not talking about being followed in return!). For some strange reason, it really hurt at that time when I was just starting here.
Later I realized, that while there are many senior writers here with a gracious attitude towards their followers (i.e. those who read their work out of real interest) there are those too who couldn't care less whether you read them or you don't. Just focus on those who care...
There's also the issue of time. Especially if Hubpages tends to be more about the forums and/or the writing for you. I mean I can't imagine other people out there have more time on their hands than me (people with families, for example), and I certainly don't have that much time to check my following, and so forth... Just how it is, really.
Oh yes, there really are many wonderful Hubbers here who write beautifully and are very gracious in spite of their years on HubPages, their knowledge, and high Hubber scores. Not a sign of conceit.
I'd actually never heard of Relache until I saw her on this Forum, so I wasn't a Follower, of course. Had I been, I'd probably have felt very hurt, and I'm very sorry for the circa 2000 Followers she seemed to be addressing.
But I think it's her we should feel sorry for. I can quite imagine she's trying to make the impression here she (probably unsuccessfully) strives to make in 'real life'. It's a known fact that people do that sort of thing on the Internet.
Anyway, you're absolutely right, we should be concentrating on those who really do care.
Nevertheless, I still find it shocking to deliberately offend those who have used their precious time to read a Hub, comment on it, and admire the author's work enough to want to become a Follower; some of those things that make the HubPages' Community work.
You think we should feel sorry for someone who writes this on their profile -
'if you enjoy Rae's Hubs, follow her to get notified about new published Hubs'
and then writes this on a forum -
'I follow only about three dozen people, but have close to 2000 followers.
There's no way I'd consider following most of the people who are following me. The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality nor on topics which interest me'
We should feel sorry? No way!
For you to say that with any kind of authority, with so many followers you would have to do quite a bit of reading. I'd say you must have read somewhere around 20,000 hubs or more to be able to form a qualified opinion at all.
Statistically, this means almost nobody on HubPages writes to a quality sufficient to be worth following. I take it a sufficient quality would be the one of this person.
This sort of thing really makes my blood boil. Circa 2000 Hubbers are being insulted or, statistically, almost all Hubbers.
I knew there was something I didn't like about you relache, I just wasn't sure what it was until now. Thanks for the very arrogant comment, now it's all crystal clear!
I will promptly go unfollow you now. I thought I could learn something from a hubber with such a high score, but I don't like this path your going down and would rather find my own way.
But since 99.992% of your followers and the rest of the hubuniverse are not good enough for you, or write on topics that interest you there is very little chance you would read any other person's hub anyways, besides your own of course.
Or do you even meet your own super high standards??????????
I sure hope 100scoreitis isn't contagious should I ever gain that high of a score.
I agree with MyWebs, that just because someone has a high ranking doesn't give them the right to have an elitist attitude. This is a site shared by people from all walks of life. Everybody here has an important message to bring to the table and we must respect that. Just because most of us don't have material that will appear on Time Magazine or The New Yorker, that doesn't mean that our hubs are not interesting and well written. A lot of work goes into our writing, our ideas are as individualistic as we are.
So who sets the standards. I believe it's the writers themselves and the only real judge here is Hub Pages. As to followers, I'm very grateful, for each and everyone of the people, who have chosen to follow my work. These are very talented people who have something worth saying, and they have a lot of wisdom and good advice to share. I have learned a lot from all of them. Like MyWebs, I hope that if I do get a score above 95, I don't develop an elitist attitude either. Remember, everyone was a newbie at one time.
Ditto IW62. My score was in the mid 90s for a couple of weeks and I didn't even realize. I don't pay any attention to it. If someone is hubbing to build a score they're here for the wrong reason I think. Oh, it's great to get the score but like you, I mainly just want to share what rattles around in my little head and appreciate each and every one of my followers and expecially their comments. One of the best hubs I've had the pleasure to read was by a hubber with a score of 61 and she only had 6 hubs but each was a classic. You better believe I let her know and begged her to keep cranking 'em out. There's a lot of jewels out there in hubland.
i read a hub by a follower of mine that was poorly constructed and it appeared that English was not this person's first language, but when you read past that and examined the message, it was a very good hub.
We've all got our abilities and disabilities. Having the latter doesn't mean we haven't got something interesting to write.
And no one here's expecting anyone to write like a professional writer. If someone does - great. If not, the hub can still be good.
Not that I'm saying Relache writes in any way like a professional writer herself. But I think she sees things differently there!
Earthlover, that just demonstrates the different ways people use the site.
People who are here to write for money DO aspire to write like a professional writer. In fact, many of them are professional writers. If you write here for fun, make whatever rules you like - just don't expect them to apply to everyone.
Marisa, it doesn't demonstrate anything of what you're talking about.
People write here to make money without writing like a professional writer.
Do you know who is possibly the highest earning hubber here? I say possibly - she's really well known, but nobody can really know.
You've been here 3 years, so you should know who I mean.
Go take a look at that hubber's writing.
It demonstrates something a bit different to what you're trying to tell me.
i look at the message. many times there are wonderful things inside.
Follow only who interests you, with too many you lose track. It becomes a full time job just to keep up with all their latest hubs, etc.
There are many who only follow with hopes of getting more followers themselves. I take a look and see if I feel they are worth following first.
No I dont follow all who follow me , whats the point?
I might not wanna go where theyre going , OR have already been ..
I'd make sure the one you follow...ain't following you 'cause they're lost...that could get way to crazy...real quick !
If you are in the park when they start following you and they are wearing a rain coat and it is hot and sunny - then yes follow them - better to have them in front of you than behind
Thanks Manly and I am well ,hot n sweaty today ...sighs
Raincoats in the park ..oh there goes my suspicious mind kickin in...runnnnnn....
While I'm grateful to all that follow me, I only follow those that I'm comfortable with reading and making comments on their hubs. I might add that I do follow a large number of hubbers, and in most cases it is reciprocal.
Yes, I too am grateful to all those who follow me, and often support and encourage me.
I follow mostly because I find a Hubber interesting, and want to keep track of their writing.
It's often been reciprocal for me, too, but I also often discover a very interesting writer through this, who I wouldn't otherwise have discovered.
I think most of us here have something good to offer.
Isn't it good to follow someone? I thought it was just spreading good karma if we followed as many people as we can.
I have a few authors I really enjoy so I am following them.
I like following and of course having others follow me. With the "new hubs published" emails I get everyday, there's always something that strikes an interest of mine. I may not always read every hub that my followers write and I don't expect them to read every one of mine either. But by following, you never know when one is going to publish something new and exciting and strike up a new interest or learning experience. I learn something new everyday, laugh, cry, truly enjoy the hubs that my followers publish and I hope some of my hubs do the same for those that I follow.
I usually follow others who are interesting but I appreciate all my readers and try to at least leave a reply to a comment or go and read their hubs and leave a comment on their hub.
I know Adsense...I'm the same (I work and have a family too)...I don't follow everyone who follows me either...but this is something different I'm saying. It's about simply approving fan mail from someone who genuinely is interested in your work. No matter how busy I am, I always find a moment for a follower like that. But as I said, I don't take all these things personally anymore..
I don't think I've ever not approved someone. If someone took the trouble (even if it was only a second) to follow me, fine, I have no problem approving them. I can always report them in the unlikely event that they turn out to be malicious (isn't this how the real world works, too?) Are you in London? I think you said so once.
I know...you'd never do that. Yes, am in london...am actually training to be a psychologist at university of london. How about you, london too?
It tends to also be more obvious also when no fan mail is left, not all the time however
When I see someone in the forums that looks interesting, I follow them. I appreciate it when they follow me to, but do not expect it. If a hubber likes car racing or is deep into computer hardware, I probably won't follow them, not that those things are not necessary, but I don't relate. But most of the time I can find something in their profile that I relate with and then I will follow them. It is not a popularity contest is it?
I follow those that intrigue me whether they follow me or not. I will check out those that follow me and as long as there is some reason to follow them, I will. I believe it's called networking.
You're all missing the point of following.
I think it's a great pity HubPages changed the name - followers were originally called fans, which made it easier to explain.
If you're a fan of Stephen King, do you expect him to read all your stories? No. Clearly, Rae isn't Stephen King, but she's an outstanding Hubber who pays the rent with her HubPages income. People join her fan club because they admire her work.
Darkside is another Hubber with around 2000 followers, because he's written several invaluable Hubs for newbies and is helpful and supportive of Hubbers in the forums.
Both these Hubbers follow very few people, because (like me) they don't join someone's fan club if they're not interested in their writing. Just like you wouldn't join Beyonce's fan club if you didn't like her style of music.
Anyone who says Rae (or Darkside, or me) is "trying to make the impression here she (probably unsuccessfully) strives to make in 'real life'" has got it back to front! We write to make money by doing something we enjoy - we actively seek an audience because that's how we make money, not because we need some kind of ego boost.
In fact, the people who run around following everyone, socializing endlessly on the forums and in comments, are probably the ones to feel sorry for - because you have to wonder why they have such a need to create a social network here. Maybe they're the ones that don't have a 'real life' offline?
You've to accept that relache's that comment shows arrogant side. I can understand that having large followers and responding to newbies is a huge task. I prefer to respond in a way that helps newbies and i digress commenting sarcastically(exception religious forums). And i've never seen you, darkside,ryan offending newbies on forums or answers. I'll not say that this applies to relache. Feel free to keep eye on answers section to see how newbies are getting answers from popular author on HP. My point is that if we can't differentiate between newbie & spammer better not hunt in full moon like pro. Becoming successful doesn't give us holy rights to look down on newbies.
"There's no way I'd consider following most of the people who are following me. The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality or on topics which interest me."
Everyone has ignored the last few words. I agree with her 100% - in fact I just said so in an earlier post. If someone writes about dancing, I'll follow them - otherwise they have to be a really top-notch writer. That does not mean everyone else stinks, and Relache did not say they they did!!
Relache doesn't dress her posts up in pretty words, but her advice is always good and accurate. Some people misunderstand her terse style, as in this case. Try looking at the words she's written and don't read more into them.
Relache used the word "nor," not "or." This was a matter of both/and, not either/or.
This is what she said: "There's no way I'd consider following most of the people who are following me. The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality nor on topics which interest me."
I absolutely object to being misquoted!
I was referring to ONE Hubber, and ONE Hubber ONLY, which I think was quite clear.
"You're all missing the point of following."
You too are painting with a broad brush, Marisa. Coming to the defense of someone who has made an arrogant statement does not sit well with the general population. There is no Stephen King on this site, most active hubbers have many followers, this has nothing to do with mass media, thus the comparison is inadequate.
I wouldn't follow you in spite of your pretty dress, as frankly I haven't a clue what you write about. So do I get the point?
It is mass media, WE - do you have any idea how much traffic Relache gets? Believe me, 2000 followers is chickenfeed compared to the traffic she gets from search engines.
I'm not suggesting she is the equal of Stephen King, merely that the act of following is similar - it's only a matter of degree. Relache pays the rent with her Hubs. Many Hubbers have good reason to follow her, to study her Hubs and learn how she does it. Why should she follow learners whom she can learn nothing from?
You wouldn't follow me in spite of my pretty dress? That just goes to show how much you're missing the point. Following is about following someone's writing. So you can't make the decision without reading their Hubs. What they look like or how sweet they are in the forums is totally irrelevant.
Of course, there are people who see it differently. They're entitled to their viewpoint but I get riled when I see them making blanket statements that their way is the only way.
I personally could give two ^%$ less how much traffic she gets from Google or any other place. That doesn't change what she said one bit.
Personally I feel like she owes all 2,000 of her followers an apology. But since she seems to have this elitist attitude it probably never will happen.
Marisa Wright - "Why should she follow learners whom she can learn nothing from?" (There is an intellectual elitist remark)
Anyone who thinks they know it all and there is nothing left for them to learn about any given subject is clearly wrong. I just may read and learn from a hub written by someone with very poor spelling or grammar skills, but this does not take away from the knowledge they are offering up for the taking. Even doctors have to continually stay up to date within their field. Change is the one true constant in the universe. Change is the one thing you can count on! So even if a person did manage to learn everything possible on a subject, which is practically impossible, a new discovery tomorrow could change everything.
Everyone on this web site brings something different and unique to the table.
Relache: "I follow only about three dozen people, but have close to 2000 followers.
There's no way I'd consider following most of the people who are following me. The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality nor on topics which interest me."
I find it awfully hard to believe that 99.982% (36/2000) of her 2,000 followers are such poor writers to make reading their hubs unbearable, that there is nothing she couldn't learn from many of them or that none of them write on subjects that would interest her. Between 2,000 authors they surely cover every topic here many times over with a great variety of viewpoints to boot.
Sure it is her choice to follow and read who she chooses, this is her choice. But to make a statement like she did exposes so much more for all to see. Why anyone would even try to defend her is beyond me, especially with even more elitist remarks.
Sure she makes good money and knows a lot, no one doubts that. But I would bet much of her knowledge came from her teachers in college, reading other hubs here and various other sources and the rest she learned through trial and error. To think your so high and mighty to be above and beyond everyone else stinks to high heaven to put it in a forum friendly nice sort of way.
MyWebs, your concept of HubPages and mine are so far apart we will never agree.
I, like Relache, signed up to HubPages to write, not to read. In fact, I rarely read anything on the internet except for research, so why would I want to sign up to read Hubs? I follow a few Hubbers who are truly outstanding writers. That doesn't mean everyone else stinks to high heaven, or that reading their Hubs is "unbearable", it just means that I need to ration my time.
And before anyone bleats that you must support other Hubbers by reading their Hubs - why? If I read someone's Hub or comment on it, I don't contribute to their earnings one cent. And Hubber traffic is completely insignificant compared to search engine traffic.
I don't really see how you would know what my concept of hubpages is.
I singed up here also to make money, but I do end up spending a lot of time reading others hubs because I often learn new things and enjoy it. I should spend more time writing but I won't worry about that for now.
For one I didn't say everyone else's writing stinks to high heaven. I said her attitude does. And Relache, not you, made it sound like her followers writing abilities was bad. You are confusing what I said about her with yourself. You might try reading what i said once again.
The only thing I was talking about you, I quoted, and my responses to what you said was obvious in my posting. The one thing I said about you you also ignored and turned everything else I said around the wrong way
If a person is here to write and make money then that is their business.
Reading other peoples hub doesn't earn them one cent. But there are other reasons to read, comment and support others here. I know some are not here just for the money. Some people like a little support, encouragement and constructive criticism. None of which have anything to do with money.
The community aspect of hubpages, which is what makes it such a great place to write and learn from other hubbers, is based upon many different types of participation. Not just the forums here.
Actually I'm not, I'm saying that you chose to exaggerate her words.
Yes, and that's what Relache does. The blurb on her profile is PR speak - just like an author would say "if you like this, buy my other books" - it doesn't imply in any way that she's promising to follow anyone back.
Yes, and everyone makes a choice about their degree of participation. Relache chooses not to participate in many aspects of the community, including following people. That's her choice and she's entitled to it.
I have not exaggerated any of her words. When she spews out arrogant, elitist remarks they smell like crap. I didn't make them smell so bad, she did this all on her own.
Instead of issuing an apology, attempting to clarify what she meant (not that it wasn't crystal clear) or any other constructive actions she has chosen to ignore all of this. Instead others are attempting damage control for her.
Is unbearable an unfair replacement for "The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality..."? The implication there is what is written isn't good enough to read and thus they are not good enough for her to follow back.
Unbearable = so unpleasant or painful as to be unendurable
This word and it's definition perfectly fits the tone of her message in my opinion.
You can keep on trying to change what she said to lessen the impact, OR instead of NOR, and try turning what I said around all day long.
I know when I follow certain users either here or on Twitter they probably will not reciprocate. Lets take Twitter for example. When I followed Bill Cosby I can look at his numbers and know without a doubt he isn't going to follow me back. I'm cool with that. What I wouldn't be cool with was if he Tweeted one day how practically all of his 1,006,873 follower's Tweets are not worth his time to read because none of them tweet about subjects he likes, and most of them can't write up to his high standards. The only difference is Bill Cosby would be all over the news and lose Followers in mass.
I doubt anyone cares how much or how little she participates around here, especially now. It is her broad statements that in one fell swoop of words managed to offend practically everyone who follows her. That is what people do care about in my opinion.
Look Marisa, I don't imply that Relache should sugar coat her words, but diplomacy is important in forums. When she used the phrase "her standards" she comes across as the editor of some important publication that expects all of us to write according her dictates. Maybe that wasn't what she meant, but it comes across as arrogant.
I don't expect anyone to read the works of 2000 plus followers, but being sensitive to the feelings of others is important. Maddie Ruud stresses diplomacy for this reason. So we cooperate with one another and there are no hurt feelings.
I think you'll have to wait a very, very long time before everyone on this forum displays the sensitivity you seem to require. Reading what you've said makes me feel as though I'm expected to walk on eggshells the whole time and mind my P's & Q's.
Talking of sensitivity, the direction this thread has taken makes me quite uncomfortable, actually - perhaps it should be renamed "Assassinate A Hubber's Character"?
I don't want you walking on egg shells during forums. Honesty is welcomed, but arrogance isn't. We are not assassinating her character. What we are is bothered and we wanted to let her know that.
As writers we know the power of words, and how words have an effect on all of us. Look at this forum, it started out on one subject and because of a few badly chosen words from another hubber, many of us feel a betrayed.
"Betrayal" is quite an emotive word though, isn't it? IMO "betrayal" is a word you'd use when your spouse cheats on you, or when someone you'd thought of as honest cons you out of money. Not when a person on an Internet forum makes a comment that could have been worded more tactfully than it was.
I'm not aiming my comments specifically at you, but it strikes me that some people here on HP expend a lot of emotion on things that basically aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.
Nothing to do with 'walking on eggshells', EmpressFelicity.
Just to do with treating others with the same respect you expect to be treated yourself.
And you know that people who can't respect another (no matter which other), can't respect themselves.
And people with a high and mighty attitude won't get much in return in the way of respect - not for long, anyways.
Yes, perhaps. In the same way - for example - that people who set up sockpuppet accounts to say things they don't have the b******s to say under their main account name don't get much in the way of respect. Not from me, anyway. But you wouldn't know anything about that of course, would you...?
I left HubPages a while back. But now I'm back.
Not that I give a damn what you think I am.
How do I know what you are? A pic of a cat you say is called EmpressFelicity and a quick bio of maybe your neighbor don't tell me much of what you are. But who am I to accuse? Or to know?
How should we know Marisa Wright's not Relache's sockpuppet? Just joking!
But glad you agree on the fundamental point.
About treating people with respect? Yes. But unlike some on this forum, I don't obsess over it. I've been around long enough to realise that different people have different communication styles, and that just because someone doesn't come across as warm/vivacious, it doesn't mean to say they're a bad person.
And I think when it comes to "respect", we're getting to the stage where you need to look in the mirror!
About treating people with respect - Yes.
I fully appreciate what you mean by different people having different communication styles, and that if someone doesn't come across as warm/vivacious, it doesn't mean to say they're a bad person. Yes, you're quite right, EmpressFelicity. And the ability to achieve this isn't a disposition every one of us possesses.
But wouldn't you agree that those who pertain to be of this disposition, who claim to understand the mechanics of writing and language generally, should be of the ability to express themselves precisely as they wish to be interpretted?
Then surely Relache really does wish to be downright rude.
And Marisa Wright wishes that all of us do things the 'Marisa Way', this being the only sensible way to do things (let's not actually put a name to the tone here). Two examples: 1) Replying to comments on your Hubs is ridiculous, because it's like saying thank you once the door is closed, and encourages two word comments like 'Great Hub' (I can't quite figure that out - it can happen, but not for that reason), and 2)that Followers serve for little more than your ego.
Should you disagree with the 'Marisa Way', you'll be met with a condescending tone, while she infers something is lacking in your education. This is the tone she obviously (given her self-proclaimed, outstanding command of the English language) wishes to convey, as is her usual coolness.
An excellent Hub is 'Commenting on Hubs, Blogs, Lenses and other article sites' by Jstankevicz, who eloquently relates a viewpoint that is quite contrary to Marisa's , who, in turn, has chosen to link this Hub to her own Hub on 'Etiquette'. It seems she hasn't quite grasped the point Jstankevicz makes in his Hub, nor etiquette on HubPages.
Marisa has actually been running around HubPages for several days now, ramming the 'Marisa Way' down everyone's throat, and will continue to do so until HubPages functions according to her convenience entirely.
So, back to writing: Marisa aspires to write like a professional writer.
She, like Relache, fully intends us to interpret her exactly as we do.
The fact that that Marisa and Relache don't come across as warm/vivacious is no accident. It's intentional. It's intended that we perceive them as HubPages authorities (as ludicrous as this may seem).
It's also quite remarkable that Marisa entered this Forum with the apparent intention of defending Relache, and has only succeeded in making matters 100% worse for her. Self-Promotion? Ambitions of becomming the HubPages chief authority? The demise of Relache would be of some advantage should this be the case.
Since the apparent demise of Relache, Marisa has become more irritating than Relache ever was.
Unfortunately, Marisa considers herself to have some 'weight' here on HubPages (as Relache also did), and feels the need to throw it about. Those who are doing a good job here by writing high quality Hubs, appreciating their followers, responding to comments (for reasons given in the above mentioned Hub by Jstankevicz), socializing in a sociable manner, and making money for both themselves and HubPages, do not appreciate this.
For many, HubPages is both fun and serious business.
I seriously have little more time to engage myself in this matter, but should anyone be interested, a good look at Marisa's Hubtivity of the past week would prove to be very informative, and prove all the points I have made over the past few days (their essence can be detected behind the downright cheekiness).
I love HubPages, which is why I chose to comment in this Forum (and two others). But I did find it difficult to be civil.
I apologize to anyone who feels I have been disrespectful since no offence was intended. My sole intention was to respond to Relache's arrogance. Why Marisa chose to involve herself in the way she has, for whatever ridiculous reason, I don't really know. But in doing so she has revealed characteristics much worse than Relache's.
Are attitudes like those of Relache and Marisa in the HubPages Spirit? Where is the respect?
I always like what I see in the mirror, EmpressFelicity. But not always what I see on my computer screen.
Well, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you, earthlover. Marisa has always been very helpful to me here on HP. And why do you really care anyway. Hubpages is different things to different people and this is the way it should be.
Hubbers with lots of articles and followers do not have the spare time to reciprocate to all of the comments or to read the hubs of all those following them.
Is this your only account or are you just hiding so you can rant without anyone knowing who you really are?
The "HubPages Spirit"? Blimey O'Reilly. I'm going to take Marisa and Relache out of the equation here, because what we're talking about is "bigger" than individual personalities (although you do seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about them if you don't mind my saying). And I kind of wonder whether it's worth me bothering to reply to you, but I like tilting at windmills, so here goes.
Nobody is obliged to reply to comments, or even have a comments section on their hub. Nobody is obliged to or has a duty to socialise on HP either. All of these are optional extras. If that's what you want to do, then fine, but it's not compulsory. The fact is that HP is a profit-making venture. It makes a profit by taking a cut of the advertising revenue from each person's hubs. Guess what? Most of the people who click on the ads in hubs aren't even Hub Pages members, so unless I'm missing something, it's pretty irrelevant to HP's bottom line whether a hubber takes the time out to socialise on the forums.
It seems to me that if anyone here has donned a pair of fluffy jackboots and gone around insisting that their way is the "right" way, then actually it's you.
I agree with you on every point, EmpressFelicity.
I neither condone nor condemn options available to us, nor choices made.
But, as I state, Marisa has actually been running around HubPages for several days now, ramming the 'Marisa Way' down everyone's throat, and will continue to do so until HubPages functions according to her convenience entirely.
It's ironic that one of her points is that spending time on the forums is time wasted and would be better used to write hubs and make money. Yet she spends most of her HubPages time on the forums. It's nothing more than self promotion and vanity.
It wouldn't bother me, except her views are cock-eyed, and actually have influenced newbies. She is of no help to anyone but herself!
It seems like you are the one who wants HubPages to conform to what you want it to be.
Most people get a lay of the land before they start saying that those who have been around almost as long as HubPages itself don't understand how it works.
Both Marisa and Relache don't mince their words and are both two of the most helpful hubbers.
That is utter rubbish, earthlover. You are a master at twisting people's words. If you read my HubPages Etiquette Hub, you'll see I explained both ways of using HubPages and said that everyone can find their own balance between social and commercial Hubbing.
My balance is that I spend time on the forums, rather than reading and commenting on Hubs, or thanking people on my own Hubs.
If I'm assertive about my personal opinion, it's usually when others are ramming their way of doing things down everyone's throat. Which is what happened with the etiquette thread - there was a preponderance of people presenting one view strongly, so I responded with the opposing option.
"Following is about following someone's writing. So you can't make the decision without reading their Hubs. What they look like or how sweet they are in the forums is totally irrelevant."
My point exactly, that is the principle I go by, and therefore I wouldn't follow you despite your appearance or the good advice and opinions you normally give in the forums. Other people are free to follow whomever they want for whatever reason they choose.
Confused. Then why did you say "I wouldn't follow you in spite of your pretty dress, as frankly I haven't a clue what you write about"
...which means you haven't even looked at my Hubs, let alone read any of them?
If you'd said, "frankly I think all your Hubs suck", that would have made more sense.
"...which means you haven't even looked at my Hubs, let alone read any of them?"
This goes to the heart of the matter. As I wrote in my prior posting on this thread, Relache couldn't possibly have read the hubs of her 2,000-or-so followers, therefore she could hardly judge their quality.
I wouldn't follow you precisely for the reason that you are now stating. If I did read your hubs someday and liked what I saw, then I would follow you. So in the event that you suddenly decided to follow me, I wouldn't automatically become your follower.
OK,now I get you and I agree, we agree - except for one thing.
I have about 1300 followers and I can tell you, I looked at every one of their profiles when they joined. It's not as much work as you think, because they've been spread over 3 years. Relache has been here longer than I have, so she could easily have checked out all 2000.
Truth is, a huge chunk of my followers are people who joined Hubpages, wrote one crappy Hub and gave up. Often, they're people who thought the key to success was to follow everyone in sight. It was the work of seconds to work out that I wouldn't want to follow them in a pink fit!
I do have followers who are good writers AND whose topics interest me (both are important IMO), but they're in the minority. Besides, I'm here to write not to read, so I set the bar pretty high when I decide what I want to be notified about.
I suspect Relache is in the same boat.
I read Relache's message very, very carefully.
It is dogmatic and offensive.
I also went to the trouble of reading other messages by her, and answers etc., and found that she talks down to just about everyone.
Reading a few of her Hubs ... I can only say that I've read better ones by other authors here.
Relache is not all she cracks HERSELF up to be.
Actually, if I joined something like HubPages, only to discover most of the other members were beneath me, not worth following, and not worth reading (I can't imagine I'd ever have such delusions), I wouldn't really want to submit a single piece of my work. Then why does she? Why is she here?
I also noticed on a thread yesterday that she denies 50% of comments on her Hubs -- she openly admits it, saying that's how she deals with comments.
What is this?
WOW! I read this thread aiming to get a bit of education about following and such, but I find myself in the middle of high drama. Now, ain't that fun! No offense meant anybody, it's all in jest!
Just a question for the experienced folks, as I don't see anything in the FAQs: Can one get rid of a follower if, say, one doesn't like them? (Not that I want to get rid of my ONE follower, mind! Just curious, on account of this discussion)
One cannot get rid of a follower, unfortunately. You could contact them and ask, but I would advise against it.
You have no control over who follows you. The only thing you do have control over is approving or denying fan mail IF they choose to leave you some.
Hi, and welcome to HubPages!
No, this isn't fun.
I used to be a follower of the person in question because I found the subjects written about interesting. It didn't bother me that this person didn't Follow me back (I write mostly fiction, and that's not for everyone).
But it did bother me when I pertinently commented on a few occasions on this person's Hubs (my comments are never negative, nor just a couple of words, because I really do read the Hubs I comment on), only to have the comments denied. Now I know this person DEALS with 50% of comments to her Hubs in this way.
You know, I've never, ever deleted a comment, and have replied to every single one.
There's no way that 50% of comments left on Hubs on HubPages are only worthy of deleting.
It's totally absurd!
Hi Camlo, and thanks for the welcome
I can't pretend to know much of all of this, I just though, uhhh, shall I wear a helmet when stepping into the forums, if that's what it takes to get the inside scoop?
As my name indicates, I'm a bit of a buffoon, so not to be taken too seriously, BUT I do appreciate you taking the time to provide your opinion, so thanks!
'... I'm saying that you chose to exaggerate her words.'
Nobody could exagerate her words. They are too obnoxious as it is. The message is also formulated in such a way, there is no room whatsoever for misinterpretation.
'Yes, and that's what Relache does. The blurb on her profile is PR speak - just like an author would say "if you like this, buy my other books" - it doesn't imply in any way that she's promising to follow anyone back.'
But the author would not turn around and insult almost all his fans/readers. That would be very unprofessional. But Relache's Followers are not her bread and butter, and if this is the way she feels about them, why does she invite people to follow her in the first place?
'Yes, and everyone makes a choice about their degree of participation. Relache chooses not to participate in many aspects of the community, including following people. That's her choice and she's entitled to it.'
But she does invite people to follow her. There is something very lop-sided about that.
I've noticed that Relache likes to answer questions in a very know-it-all manner, and as though the questioner were a moron.
I've noticed she likes to post messages on Forums as though her opinion were the only right one.
I've noticed she likes to delete comments to her Hubs -- about 50%, according to her. Now that's just sloppy!
What really disturbs me about this whole thing, is that she is a Hubber who is/was looked up to. This isn't a good thing when she is actually doing very little to actually benefit the Hub Community herself, in spite of a high Hubber score and about 2000 unappreciated Followers. She sets a bad example, and if everyone here were to follow it, well, we wouldn't have a community at all, would we?
Don't get worked up, MyWebs. It's not worth it.
Marisa Wright is only attempting damage control for Relache because she is one of the Holy Three Dozen Relache has chosen to follow.
It would be a different picture if she wasn't.
Then she'd be included in Relache's statement: 'The majority of what is written by all of them isn't of sufficient quality nor on topics which interest me'.
And she only defends Relache's slobby, careless behavior because her own's nearly as bad. But only nearly
Actually I'm pretty sure she doesn't follow me. I haven't checked - but she has never commented on any of my Hubs, so I suspect not.
The reason I'm defending her is the principle of the thing. I get upset when people accuse Hubbers of being rude just because they choose not to fit in with one group's view of what etiquette is.
Some people are here to make money. That's what HubPages was designed for. The whole community - following, commenting, forums - is an adjunct and if it all disappeared tomorrow, Hubs would still make money. So choosing not to follow, or comment, isn't hurting anybody.
Personally, if I have spare time I'd rather help out newbies in the forums than make meaningless comments on Hubs. And I think the point about etiquette is important - because new members who come to HP to make money, could arrive on the forums and get the impression that following and commenting IS part of making money - when it's the opposite. And they'll waste a lot of valuable time before they figure it out.
If I know Relache is following you, then you DEFINITELY know.
She is, and you know it.
Stop making feeble excuses, and we're not all complete idiots!
Sorry, how can you tell? I've never seen a place where you can check who someone is following.
You've been here 4 days. I've been here 3 years. Who knows more about how HubPages is supposed to work?
You - you like to think.
Relache is following you, and you know it. Anyone can check.
Would you prefer it if nobody knew you follow Relache, and Realche follows you?
What does anyone care, anyway?
If "earthlover" has been here less than a week, then I'm Britney Spears.
He/she is someone's sockpuppet - I'd put money on it.
Yes she is following you, I did take the time to check
"You've been here 4 days. I've been here 3 years. Who knows more about how HubPages is supposed to work?"
I been here for 3 months and its not all that hard to figure out who is following you .
As I said, MyWebs, she thinks we're all idiots.
Yes it would seem so. For someone who has been here for so long I can't believe she doesn't know this web site inside and out like the back of her hand by now
"I get upset when people accuse Hubbers of being rude just because they choose not to fit in with one group's view of what etiquette is. "
WE accused her of being rude? But I suppose what she said was perfectly fine, acceptable and not offensive to nearly 2,000 people?
You should go get a job working for some politician because man your great at spinning and twisting the truth around. Keep this up and you will have the masses believing we started all this and made up the whole thing. We attacked her. Poor Relache everyone should go follow her now, give her a sympathy follow. BooHoo LOL
Just a tidbit:
Check this one out Marisa: Your hub Melodia Pants - the Perfect Belly Dance Pants
Shame, shame, shame, Marisa. So many untruths.
Earthlover, I'm beginning to worry about you. Do you have so little life outside the internet, that you can spend time searching Hubs so you can prove a petty point?
You're right - I'd completely forgotten about that comment. I remember being surprised as I didn't realise Relache was a bellydancer.
The point is, who follows me and who comments on my Hubs isn't something that I normally think about. That's why I didn't know how to check who follows who and why I didn't remember the comment.
I feel sorry for people who have so little self-worth, they need to obsess about who's following them or how many comments they get.
'I get upset when people accuse Hubbers of being rude just because they choose not to fit in with one group's view of what etiquette is.'
Strange thing to write, Marisa.
You don't get upset when a hubber insults about 2000 fellow hubbers?
I think we should stop passing remarks on each other cause member in question is not even interested in replying on this matter. So let's stop getting personal with each other just because we're turned off with her behavior.
What i hate here is that most of the popular authors on HP are earning money by sucking off on newbie clicks(let's admit it we all do that when it comes to PPC/Adsense/amazon) and on other side looking down on newbies and replying in terse sarcastic style in answers/forums section and it's acceptable cause they're successful.Oh yes i almost forgot that we're into money-making so we're free to offend newbies to make excuse of our time/professionalism.
Like followers, even hub authors who are sending internal traffic to this author are fools cause they're not up-to the standard of this author.
If the person here is just to make money then i don't see why offend or make terse-sarcastic reply to newbies on their threads/questions ? (They're not inviting you to spit sarcasm on their threads/questions,why take pain to reply them ?). Is it just to maintain hubscore of 95-100 by answering questions ? If this is the case then surely it's a hit-n-run which is not expected from senior authors on HP.If the person is earning enough money then i don't see why he/she is wasting time on forums/answers. Becoming successful doesn't give us holy rights to look down on others and if anyone thinks like that then surely they're on their way towards social isolation.
Enough ranting.. I'm done.
Skyfire, how do popular authors make money off newbie clicks?
Hubbers - even newbie Hubbers - almost never click on ads. Earnings from impressions on HubPages are very minor compared to earnings from Adsense, Amazon or eBay. We make money from search engine traffic, not other Hubbers.
I disagree. We have few threads where people want to purchase something from amazon/ebay and are looking for product hubs. It's against TOS but there are threads in forum,look up.
I didn't mean HP-newbies there,but Newbies in general.
Intermediate/expert internet users hardly click on ads.Most intermediate/expert users have Ad-block Plus enabled on Firefox/Chrome/Opera.
At the risk of being attacked myself. Relache is one of the most helpful hubbers here. Yes, sometimes she makes statements that seem to be rude and elitists but she has helped many, many new hubbers. I believe that is just her way.
I'm sorry, but people are way too sensitive. Harping on and on about her comments are counterproductive.
Skyfire, (this is truly only intended to share how things work with someone new - not be insulting, condescending, or anything else). I think you may have a chicken/egg thing going when it comes to scores and answering questions and participating in the forums. People don't get their scores and then not have to "be bothered" answering questions. People GET those 95-100 Hub Scores by participating and making an effort to make a contribution to the site. That means aiming to come up with decent-quality Hubs, answering/asking questions, kicking in on the forum sometimes, reading and voting on other people's Hubs. The decent Hub Score comes BECAUSE people do those things.
I can't speak for any other "oldies" on here (as far as being here for awhile goes), but the only reasons I've ever come to the forums have either been to have a discussion (socializing) or to try to be helpful to someone else. I answer questions because sometimes they give me ideas for writing a Hub, and sometimes I just enjoy seeing what I can come up with for an answer (kind of like some people challenge themselves with crossword puzzles). In other words, for me (a I think a lot of "oldies" like me), it's never been about the score at all. It's been about enjoying writing and participating on HubPages. Before you know it, a couple of years goes by - and, oopsie, you find yourself with a good HubScore, just because you've been putting in a half decent effort.
I haven't even read all whatever "terse" remarks you're talking about; and in fairness to new people - yes - sometimes just gives an "all business" response. Sometimes, too, "old" Hubbers aren't all that sure someone new hasn't just signed in for an hour and a half until he moves on. So, yes, sometimes "old" Hubbers may have some reservations about anyone who just showed up recently.
At the same time, as an "old" Hubber I've seen how Marissa and Relache (and some others) are always there to try to offer help/information to anyone asking. It's that simple.
Also, as an "old" Hubber, I've been here, minding my business and doing my own thing; only to (over a period of two years) see new people show up, resent "old" people, and make remarks about them (or else come on here and announce everything that's wrong, as they see it, with HubPages and a whole bunch of individual Hubbers). THEN they wonder why people aren't all that friendly toward them. I'm not saying you've done that is this situation; but it's an explanation for why some Hubbers have some reservations about new ones.
What any new person (or anyone else) does or doesn't do on here is not, of course, my business. As I said, I just do my thing, trying to kick in a little here and there. Still, it's pretty misguided to jump to the conclusion that anyone on here who happens to have a decent score is in "some magic club" and doesn't want anyone else in, or think anyone else can get in. Pretty much everyone on here (at least the ones who don't see HubPages as a playground or imagine it to be some kind of magic ATM machine) wants everyone else to be successful.
New people would benefit by just relaxing, writing, participating, and realizing that seeming to resent everyone who's been here for awhile isn't the best way to be well received. (Again, all of this isn't aimed at you, specifically - it's aimed at every new person who shows up and picks apart everything and everyone on the site after "a day and a half" on here. New people who do that usually don't end up happy here and don't stay long enough to see their own 95-100 HubScore.) Yes, earnings, traffic, and score can all kind of be tied together - but none of them are going be achieved worrying about anything other than what we, ourselves, do here.) So, my long and unsolicited advice to newer Hubbers is relax, write, don't worry about someone else's time on here or HubScore is, and take a few things with a grain of salt.
I've never seen marisa with terse remarks towards any newbie so she is out of question.
Help packaged-in-terse-sarcasm and help packaged-in-friendly tone, which one will you choose ? Think about it from newbie perspective.
If people think it's sensitive so be it, but we've choice to answer newbie question/thread or ignore it but some people end up making terse remarks when they choose to answer
Well this whole discussion is going as attack towards hubber-in-question, so i'm done here because it's not even worth my time any way.
I'm a new hubber here.. thank you all for the learning and enlighting forum posts today. I'm grateful.
Actually, earthlover. You are becoming more insulting and obnoxious to other hubbers than Relache ever has been.
I'm not even going to bother to respond to the points in Earthlover's personal attack on me.
All I'll say is - you and others got hysterical on behalf of Relache's 2000 followers because you perceived they had been insulted.
I defended Relache because I respect her, and I'm familiar enough with her style to know she meant to be brief and to the point, rather than rude.
In so doing, I made it clear that personally, I agree with Relache - I follow only a small number of Hubbers whose writing is of the highest quality and whom I genuinely admire, and most of my followers don't reach that very high standard.
So you'd think, if most people found that offensive, Relache and I would have lost a huge chunk of our followers. Not so. In fact, both of us have collected a few more.
I think that says it all.
What a poor excuse you are for a human being, Marisa, if you are one, that is.
I don't know about you, earthlover but it is hard to find really enjoyable articles on this and many other content sites. Many are commercial in nature and therefore not something one would read for enjoyment.
I do find articles which I enjoy and rate them accordingly. But it takes going through many titles to find something which interests me personally. I try to go through the new hubs first to help give them a jump start or to rate them down if I think they are of poor quality.
But this is just my method. I'm sure each of us goes about things differently here. Just because you disagree with how someone else participates here means absolutely nothing. If it was mandatory for us to comment or follow writers we didn't like, you would be griping about that.
Besides, who really cares what you think!
I don't care who follows, who comments, or whatever. But I disagree with people telling us how we should do it, or if it's right or wrong to do it, or a waste of time and so on.
We're all free to do it as we feel comfortable, and that should be respected.
We are all free to do what we like. We are also free to ignore any advice we disagree with. No big deal!
You're right. But when we're new here, we can't always tell good advice from bad (as far as Hubbing is concerned).
And I think that's a pretty big deal for the badly advised.
you sure talk big for someone who's only been here for 8 days...
who are you, really...?
Thank you for the beginning part of the thread, as I was also wondering if we should follow someone who follows us. I appreciate the advice.
Newbies, don't feel bad. I was voted the best new hubber for 2009, and as far as I know, Relache has never visited my hubs. Or she did and discovered that I wasn't up to her high standards. Maybe she's just too busy.
You're a phenomenal Hubber, Habee. So who gives a damn about Relache!
I may not be going about it in the right way but I like to follow all new hubbers just for encouragement's sake. Let them know someone is reading what they produce and hopefully want them to improve. True, some of it can be pretty bad but who of us started out as the new Hemmingway? I have alot of hubbers that read me and post comments but don't follow. To each his own. It's not going to affect what I write or how I write it.
I follow the writers I likie o read, I formerly got the emails, and will agian, now that tax season is over with...I only follow the writers I like to read, and I have emails sent to me when they've published a new hub...I love that, I really do...I had to take a break from that, being a parttime tax preparer, during these last few days of tax season, but I really do love to get those emails, and enjoy so much what they've written...
oh gosh, I follow who I want to follow, they don't have to be the highest quality writer... that would leave out a lot of really interesting, great writers and some really amazing hub material.
if someone follows me, I always look at their profile and at least one of their hubs, I may or may not follow them, depends. but I do think it's nice to show support or encouragement to others.
exactly my thoughts..
Also, I follow Relache, Marisa and Earth lover, because I liked the hubs they wrote. None of them follow me in return. Do I take that as an insult? Of course not! As I said, earlier, I know as a newbie these things matter (they shouldn't even then, but somehow they do) but try not to waste your energy on them and instead focus on writing and all the other positive things this site has to offer!
sending happy thoughts to everyone here....
Some people follow me and when I don't follow them back they stop following me a few days later lol
If I like your work I will follow; sometimes I will comment but not follow. A following should not be expected; its earned through the genuine appreciation of your work. This is a place where people should be honest even if it sucks. The following is a reward for your hard work. I don't want ppl to say they like my work out of being polite that defeats the purpose of being here. Once I follow you; I am following you whether you ever follow me or not. The hub is way more than that though. I have only been here 8 days and have already realized that fact.
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