Has anyone noticed the apprenticeship program tab on hubpages, as well as the associated article about the program. There is an article that speaks all about this program and what it involves. It does sound very similar, but a more intense scenario of the 30 hubs in 30 days challenge. But it does incorporate a lot more than just penning hubs. Read here http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/Appr … ip-Program How long has this been here on the accounts page? Does anyone already know of this and if so what are your thoughts and feedback in reference to this fairly new program?
The program started last month, but it was in beta. I got to be a part of it and it was awesome. It's really helping me be better at online writing. I highly suggest it to anyone who wants to get serious about improving.
It is intensive and a lot of work but the staff and the first group of apprentices are awesome and the Hubs I've published through this program are my best in terms of earning and traffic.
Shanna, how long after you submitted the application did it take to be accepted into the apprenticeship program?
I was actually invited. None of the first batch of apprentices had to apply. The Hubpages staff approached us and asked if we would like to participate. We had to agree not to talk about it though. We were the guinea pigs.
That sounds great and I would like to reap from the benefits of the apprenticeship program in the future. Unfortantely right now I have a lot on my plate between my regular job and taking a couple online classes to finish up a Masters Degree that was on hold for the last couple of years. It does sound tempting though and good luck to all of you who are now and will be participating in the program at a future date. Keep in touch and let me know how you all are progressing from time to time. And hopefully this apprenticship program is nothing like the show that Donald Trump had started on television a few years back-I'm sure there is no comparison! Thanks for the feedback.
The Apprenticeship program is awesome! A well-written interesting article online will not go far if it is not searcher-friendly. That is the most important thing I learned in Month 1. The new program teaches you how to use tools to fine tune your work so it will be successful online. So, you get paid to improve your hubs - a win-win situation.
Time management will be important if you decide to join. The first month, I wrote my last 5 hubs in 5 days and it was just poor planning on my part. New strategy this month!
I highly recommend the program.
Hey Jlbowden, I've learned a lot from this forum thread. Thanks for opening up the topic. Hub Pages apprenticeship program looks like a win win situation to me.
I'm excited, too - I am in Beta Group Two (we just started the first of this month). We are guinea pigs, as well, and they're still refining the program.
I don't know what the application process entails, since our group was invited as well, but based on what I know of the program so far, I highly recommend it to anyone who already has some writing behind them, but wants to learn about online publishing. HubPages has done an amazing job of developing the curriculum and the interface for the lessons and tutorials.
I would even recommend it to anyone who doesn't have any online writing experience, like me. Hubpages is the first time I've ever written online (first time I've ever really written outside of school work and whatever nonsense I write in my free time), and I'm finding the program amazing.
ME TOO ME TOO! I've loved the program since the beginning. It really pushes you to become a better writer.
I am new to online writing. And I love the freedom that HubPages offers. I really want to submit an application to be part of the next group. I know I can benefit from this program in a lot of ways and always love learning more about everything.
I have reworked my schedule a bit to dedicate more time to my continued studies and writing (okay...and Zumba too!)
Thanks for you inspiring words regarding your writings and the apprenticeship program. I so want to do the apprenticeship program. I was thinking they would pick the people that have the most experience writing, I do not have a fat portfolio where my writing is concerned, although I have taken writing courses, but I take it seriously and love writing on hubpages. I write from my heart.I hope I get chosen!
I was also invited to join the Apprenticeship Program, and I'm really enjoying it!
Good for you and I am glad to see another fellow writer on hubpages here is benefitting from the program. It looks like this will be a great way for all of us to improve our writing skills significantly. Take care.
Well, that answers my question as to if you need to be a newbie
I had received an email inviting me but it didn't specify what it was, then I received another one saying I went on a waiting list because of the overwhelming response. I definitely want to do it.
I certainly wouldn't want to be on the selection committee!!! Gonna be a lot of disappointed people me thinks!
Even I got the intimation that I was placed on the 'waiting list' after the initial invite to participate. I am really looking forward to do this and improve my writing skills.
Jlbowden - I think the intention is for this to become an ongoing program, so there will be time for you to apply in the future. Best of luck on your Master's Degree!
Thank you for your feedback in refernce to the apprenticeship program, as well as wishing me luck with finishing up my Master's. I will need it, because this is not an easy task. And as much as I enjoy writing, I have enough essays and papers to write for the degree program including a thesis. So maybe once in a while I can still manage to sneak in an article or two and place the apprenticeship program on the backburner for time being. I do not think this program is going away anytime soon. However it looks very tempting to me, but I must focus my attention elsewhere and try to restrain thee.
My thesis just about killed me, but it was so worth the effort. It wasn't the writing that bothered me, it was the citations and other things typical of that type of work. And, since I tend to sit down and write everything at once (from years of doing short pieces), I was writing 12-15 hours a day without stopping for water or food. I had to force myself to stop mid-chapter, otherwise I would keep writing almost automatically.
Quick question - I noticed looking through the learning center that the program gives an elevated tier in the HubPages Bonus Program. What is the HubPages Bonus Program ? is this something old? or something that is new and 'slipped out' with this new program????
We got paid a bonus of 6.09 per each Hub published during the first month. I think that continues on through the rest of the program as well.
Just what is the Hubpages Bonus Program?
Folks on the apprenticeship program are on an 'elevated level' of this, whatever it is.
I'm wondering if they're working on a future upfront payment scheme, and they've worded the apprenticeship Hub to allow for that - because otherwise I can't think what they're talking about.
Apprentices get a $6 upfront payment for each of the Hubs they produce during the course. One participant has said she thinks they continue to get that payment for all new Hubs after the course is completed - it would be interesting to know if that's true.
In the past, when HubPages has paid for Hubs (e.g. Flagship Hubs), they've taken the rights - meaning that unlike ordinary Hubs, you can never delete Hubs you've been paid for. So that's another aspect which needs to be clarified.
This is the question that I was searching for an answer to, when I found your comment, Marisa.
Does anyone know?
I'd like to know the answer as well.
I've got another couple of questions. Simone's blog post of April 2nd says:
"Apprenticeship lessons cover ... getting established on multiple social networks, and developing a following...We also hold semi-regular Hangouts on Google+ in which Apprentices can speak to a live Mentor (a HubPages staffmember leading the program) face-to-face."
That sounds as though you need to be on Google +, Facebook et al in order to really benefit from this program. Those of us who are "Facebook refusers" are probably at a disadvantage.
And in the HubPages Weekly email, the requirements for being accepted on the Apprenticeship Program are listed as follows:
"Hubbers with a demonstrated ability to regularly publish high-quality online articles (either on HubPages and/or elsewhere)
Hubbers with an AdSense account who are enrolled in the HubPages Earnings Program
Hubbers with a demonstrated interest in writing and publishing online
Hubbers whose Hubs are well-written and feature proper grammar and punctuation
Hubbers who are supportive community members and team players
Hubbers who are eager to learn new skills and respond to constructive feedback"
No problem with any of this except that the "supportive community members and team players" bit does concern me a bit. It could almost be read as an attempt to stifle potential criticism of The HubPages Way. As in, "Surely you don't want to rock the boat or express dissent when we've given you all this support and encouragement via the Apprenticeship Program, do you?"
This is why I asked to be released from my application, EF. That and not knowing who is teaching the classes in the first place. So far, I've found no staff member I wish to emulate, as far as writing ability is concerned. I'll just struggle along as I have and not be under any kind of pressure to support things I disagree with. In my humble opinion, money is not worth giving up one's ability to voice one's concerns when things aren't right.
100% agree. I will never forget, when I was Steward for the Dance Channel on Helium, I joined a discussion on things that could be improved on Helium. The thread was all constructive criticism and brought up some great ideas, yet I got a snippy email from one of the staff telling me that as a Steward, it was my job to "defend" the site. I resigned on the spot - there was no way I was going to become a brown-nose just because I was doing a volunteer job for them.
That was the beginning of the end - I think it was not long after that, that Rex the forum Nazi got appointed.
Yep, that idiot is still running the show over at Helium and is a joke as a moderator. Because of having such a person defending the site's rule changes, it has sunk to new levels of obscurity as a content source. I detest brown-nosers no matter where they are. But writing sites always have a "Rex" or two to quell dissent concerning any changes which may cause problems for them. It's merely business, I suppose!
It's amazing how a silly little presumptuous title will affect some folks negatively!
I totally agree, this would be how I would read it too. I got an initial email, replied and showed an interest, and then got told that due to an overwhelming response I was on a waiting list. Now I know what it was all about I am kind of glad I wasn't accepted. Does anyone know who these mentors/experts are doing the teaching, and why they are better qualified than anyone else to perform this job? I know I have complained about various HP things in the past on forums, so maybe I got rejected on that. I also noted that a good chunk of the 'being accepted criteria' seem to infer you don't actually need a course at all as you are already a reasonable writer at least! (good grammar, spelling etc etc.)
Reading this thread, I am reminded of a book I once read by William Whyte, called The Organization Man. It's a management book that was written over half a century ago, but it's still very, very relevant now.
You maintain ownership of your Hub. The per-Hub bonus, is just that, an added bonus.
I think it can also continue after the program as ling as your meet the required minimum of published hubs and the required quality.
The program has proved to be a very in-depth tutorial. The mentors are super helpful, and the lesson plans are spectacularly laid out. I have loved every minute of it. A real bonding between the team was an unexpected bonus, along with the up sweep in traffic. It is an intense program, but worth every minute. If you get a chance to participate, I would highly recommend it.
Thanks HubPages Team for a really cool experience!
Thank you for the additonal feedback you posted in reference to the apprenticeship program. Even though it looks indepth, it also looks well worth putting the extra effort into it, as you previously mentioned. I really would like to sign-up at a future date. Because it currently looks very tempting to me at this point. As much as I hate to admit it-I will unfortunately have to put it on hold, because of already spreading myself too thin. Too bad there wasn't 48, or 36 hours in a day, but then again that might be pushing it too far!
I don't know if this might change your mind, but I did the program along with working 20 hours a week, taking 17 credits in school, and volunteering with a school organization. I think there might have been a social life in there somewhere, but I lost track of it. Hahah, it's doable is my point.
Now You're really tempting me-No fair! But I guess you are right if you look at it from your point of view. I am working a bit more than 20 hours, but I have less online credits at twelve. In my case I think the trick to signing-up for the program, is being able to better organize/juggle my time. In other words develop better time management skills. I am not worrying about a social life at this point in time. But I am worrying that if sign-up and get accepted, that I won't be able to carry through with the committment. But go ahead keep twisting my wrist a little more-I just might give in. (:
I'm working about 50 hrs per week and was able to do it. Just thirty minutes of writing a day worked for me. Only do it if you have the time, but it may seem much more daunting than it really is. Good luck in whatever you choose to do!
I also managed to cure cancer, pioneer the first space shuttle to Mars and bring back a captured alien. In my spare time I penned three bestselling novels. The fourth had a mediocre reception but you can't win them all I suppose.
Psh, the Apprenticeship program took up just mere moments of my time...
If you are at all worried about time, then you should wait. It *is* a great program that everybody should join, bit it is also intensive as the others have said. However, if you don't meet the minimum requirements in any given month, then you're out. Since you only have one shot, best to wait until you know you have time. That way you can fully benefit, and be sure to stick it out for the duration - because it's just that awesome
Thank you for your feedback as well in reference to the program. I think you're right about waiting it out until the right time. Because if I sign up over the next day, or two and let's say that I am accepted into the program right away without being on a waiting list. The problem that will undoubtedely arise will be that I will not be able to follow through. So with that said there will be a place and time for the apprenticeship program for each and everyone of us including myself; based on our individual schedules. And to add if accepted and I do not live up to my end of the requirements, I will not get the opportunity to reapply again if booted out of the program. Good feedback again from you-greatly appreciate it!
Shanna11, I knew you you had a superhero uniform on under your regular clothes! You must be exhausted... Hubhugs
Yes, it was exhausting, but someone's got to do it, and I'm willing to sacrifice my time and ener----
excuse me for a moment. I have to go cut the ribbon at the opening ceremony of the orphanage I built with my bare hands.
I'll echo the other comments above - it's a good program, and one that stretches writing muscles. However, if you are worried about being able to spend a limited amount of time, I'd wait.
I've spent on average 20-30 hours per week meeting the requirements, while maintaining my usual level of research and detail.
Wow-20 to 30 hours per week! It must certainly be a great program and I must say, it looks like you are not only loyal to this program but also dedicated. Unfortunately I will have to wait for time being to join the apprenticship, as great as it may seem. Because I have other priorities on my plate at this moment; which will not let me focus on the apprenticeship program, in order to be able to give it more attention. Again thanks for the additonal feedback.
I am glad that you pointed out the reality of how much time it really takes!
You definitely need to allot quite a bit of time. It is difficult to meet the required 8 hubs, but very rewarding and worth it! Is it weird that I look forward to coming home from my day job to work on the apprenticeship program? After I play with my kids of course!
I totally agree! I learned so much about my writing after only one month. The mentors and fellow members are helpful and encouraging. I recommend it to anyone that has the time and wants to make more income from HP.
What the program has done for me is give me more motivation to write, more ideas of topics to write about, and I definitely like friendliness of my team. I am happy to have been invited to the beta group.
I think the quality of my hubs has gone up.
Im so excited reading all the inspiring posts!! I just "applied", having not been in the upper Echelon of invitees. That being said I can only hope I will be chosen as a most likely to improve option! :-)
I agree with what all the other apprentices have said. The program rocks! There is so much encouragement as a writer and I feel like I've soared to new heights. You can't just "crank out" hubs, either. You really need to put in some time and effort into them, but already, my google views have really gone up and it's really a lot of fun to be on a team of people who are cheerleading for you. I highly recommend this program if you really want to break into the online writing world. +1+1+1+1
cclitgirl - you are so funny! I have applied as well. Although I see that I have missed several fun people that I would have liked to have gone through the program with. I am looking forward to being able to take part in this awesome opportunity to learn and grow.. I love to learn new things!
I'm not sure that I can add any more than what has already been said about the program but I will add that I truly look forward each day to the new things that I am learning and the awesome interactions with the team. I also can say that I have seen an increase in traffic as well. I can't believe that we are just starting month 2 and can only imagine what I will be like as an online writer at the end of the 6 months.
Jl, do what you feel that you can handle. I know that I really thought long and hard about the commitment part of it as well. As a full time elementary teacher and mom of two preschool kids, I didn't know if I could handle it all, but I made it work. I don't sleep much but I knew that this was a temporary situation and the benefits would be lifelong.
That answered my question! I am very, very interested in the program, but with the kids I was worried about having the time to do it. I don't sleep much anyway, so I could use that awake time to write.
Thanks for your feedback as well in reference to signing up for the forum. I could survive on less sleep myself in order to participate in the program. And I still might go ahead and sign-up. However I think I will wait until the 12th of May and consider it a personal Birthday gift and treat to myself. Thanks again for suggestions.
Here's a question about waiting to sign up, and I doubt that it can be answered in this thread, but I'll go ahead and ask.
Since there is apparently an overwhelming response to this program and people may have to be wait-listed, would there be any possibility of applying right now but asking to be in the "May" or "July" group instead of waiting until then to apply? Waiting to apply might actually put someone in the November group!
My thought is that if you apply now and get accepted, you could perhaps ask to start in May.
I would apply now if you want to do it a little later and ask like Mel said. Earlier in this thread rebekahELLE said that she applied and was put on a waiting list because of the large response.
I tried to find the email that I received to double check what it said, but I must have deleted it. I'm not positive now that it definitely said there was a waiting list, or that I would have to wait. I want to make sure I'm not giving out false info. I had not applied, I received an email inviting me to be part of a new program in beta and accepted the invite. Then I received the email saying it was full at that time.
Aficionado - Once you're accepted, you start the beginning of the following month. So if you were accepted in April, you wouldn't start until May.
Thank you for the reply. After reading some more of the information about the program (I forget where, but it may have been in the newsletter), I think I should publish more before I apply.
My main concern had to do with numbers. If hundreds of Hubbers are applying now, the waiting list will be very long, and acceptance would be months away. But if, by some fluke, I were accepted right away, I'm not in a position to start yet because of other responsibilities. It's all a matter of timing, and I'm not sure how to resolve the problems that I would have with that.
Check the blog post. I asked whether I could be put on the waiting list for a future month (August), and Simone recommended that I wait until I was ready before applying.
Jl - if you apply the, you can be fairly certain that you would get on a waiting list and have time to get a few things taken care of. Good luck to you!
The Apprenticeship Program seems like such a great thing to be involved in! I sent in my application and I'm hoping that I'll be accepted eventually...
Congrats to everyone who has already become a part of it! I've looked over a few of your articles and wow, they're looking GREAT! Such inspirations
This sounds like such an amazing opportunity! I applied to the program as soon as I heard about it yesterday. Congratulations to everyone who has already been selected to be a HubPages Apprentice. I look forward to reading more of your informative hubs in the months to come and hearing about your successes!
FYI - if you are worried about the monthly lessons, don't be. They are set up to flow well, and each has written as well as recorded information and video graphics. They're not overly lengthy. I went through the first month's lessons in just a short time, and then went through them again. I'm very excited to see our group bond - we are already communicating and learning from each other.
The topics they assign for the first month help, because even though they're based on your interests (and probably reflect things you've already written about), the titles are styled to attract more traffic. So you start out with an sutomatic boost!
If you don't get accepted right away, just take a look at the hubs created by those in the program. They can be a source of inspiration or ideas on how to attractively format a hub.
If you kind of use these hubs as a template for your own hubs, it kind of gives you something to learn from and drawn from while you're waiting. I can imagine the waiting list will get quite long.
The WTI is also a great source of inspiration. Actually some of my BEST performing hubs have come out of WTI (HubMob), so seriously check it out.
You have all answered a number of my questions. I also wondered about the time it would take to learn and then apply the lessons to new hubs, but you have given me encouragement to go ahead and apply. Thanks for all of the feedback!
Just thought of one more question. I see that there will be tutorials of how to create videos. Does one need any special equipment to do that? I do not have a video camera.
I took a very quick look at one of your hubs and I don't think that given your experience here on HP it would take you long to apply what you learn to what you are already doing. As far as the lessons about the videos, we haven't gotten to that yet. However, I will say that I have made several hubs with videos and have used my video camera that is built into my regular camera. I have seen some hubs though that use slides of photos to create a video. I have windows movie maker that came with my computer software that I use to edit. Hope this helps.
I wrote one Hub about this. Windows Movie Maker is an easy way to make movies with pictures of all sorts. You can combine still photos and videos, add effects, add music or narration, and all sorts of similar things. It's very user-friendly, with a fairly small learning curve.
Thanks Cardelean, K9keystrokes and Aficionada for your answers concerning the videos. Appreciate it!
Will everyone get a 'rejection' or 'in the waiting list' email? or is there a deadline when we should expect an acceptance!
Hotmail have sent me an email to tell me to stop checking my inbox every 38 seconds!
Also - is there a way to amend an application! I just re-read the info and realized I'd put in a subject that is not allowed within the program!!! So I don't want to get rejected because I'm an 'idiot who can't read'!!!
If I can just put in my 2 cents regarding what I think being part of the Apprenticeship program has done, is that it really improved my confidence as an online writer and has given me the tools I need to succeed. I feel really excited about this opportunity and I highly recommend it to anyone that’s looking to build their online writing “brand”. Best of luck to all the new applicants!
Obviously from these posts, newbies are targeted for the new program over those of us who have been here for a while. Please withdraw my application and thanks for your loyalty, HP!
I'm with you Randy. Shamelessly selective, and unfair on / exploitative of the vast majority of writers on site.
Statements like "we're developing the stars of the future" (in the HP self-promotional press release linked under 'annnouncements'), just give me the shits. But that's how HP is becoming - clubby, clique-y, and embarrassingly 'rah-rah'.
Totally with you on, "Thanks for the loyalty, HP" I don't think these guys even understand that loyalty's a two way street. And regrettably, since the stream of "I'm so passionate, I know I'll be a hugely successful writer!" wannabes is never going to abate, HP don't need to be loyal to anyone except themselves, and their business needs. Anyone who drops out will be replaced without leaving a ripple.
I don't have any problem with that - it's perfectly reasonable to build a business on such a certainty. But I'd like to see HP back off the gee-whiz PR BS for a while, I'm at the stage I don't even want to open the newsletter any more.
And besides, I don't know any recipes - so I'm f+#*ed anyway!
This seems incorrect? - from the half dozen or so members of the beta I've seen post on here - at least 3 are HP Elite long standing members, an additional one was Habee (a senior HPer) and another was invited but didn't accept.
From my perspective of someone who's not in the program it seems a fairly mixed bunch - which is what you need for a beta program.
Also I'm not sure where you got the 'recipe' idea - when applying you put in the subjects you are interested in and will generally write the hubs in those subjects...
Simey, I hope you get accepted soon! I've already published my first eight assigned hubs, and I'm eager for more. I've reviewed all the first month's lessons, too. The team I'm on has been super supportive and friendly. So far, I don't see any negatives, but I see lots of advantages!
To be honest I won't be too disappointed if I'm not accepted - I see this as an opportunity for the whole site - there will be 240 quality hubs published every month by every group - there are 2 (3?) now and the number will grow - so that's several thousand quality hubs a month.
Not only will I see these hubs and learn from them, but the overall quality of Hubpages will improve - that's a win win situation for me!
I agree with this perspective. It brings HP to a higher level regarding quality articles. I'd like to see them screen articles across the board so there'll be no articles with grammer, spelling, etc. errors, no copied content, no redundancy. It's done on Helium but their incentive is only $1-2.
Then you've not looked at those who are in the program, Simey. Some have only been here a couple of months and others only a bit longer. Sure, the greeters and others who always go along with anything HP says will be in the program first. It's always been this way here. At least this time they didn't try to pull the old "random selection" line they've used before.
And no, I don't expect loyalty from HP for the members who have made the site lots of money and kept it going through the hard times of Pandas and other such troubles. I'm not that delusional! It feels good to be overlooked for someone who's only been here a matter of 4 weeks or so, right?
But good luck with your application anyway! Edited to add-look at the first page of this thread, Simey. There are 3 people on the first page in the program who haven't been here 6 months yet. I didn't search any further along but I'm sure there are more. So much for that!
To be fair, that's exactly what I would expect. Why would you offer an "apprenticeship" scheme to people who are already so experienced, they're unlikely to benefit? In fact, when I first saw the scheme, I assumed it was for newbies only.
The only thing I find strange is the upfront payment carrot. HubPages is providing a lot of mentorship and training in the first month, in return for only 8 Hubs - for a newbie, I'd have thought that was enough. Why pay as well? That's why I'm curious whether there are any conditions around those Hubs, seems to me there should be.
Unless HP figures the veterans are already experienced enough to not need this new program then no, it's not fair, Marisa. Otherwise, why have certain other older members in it at all? And the second month does have older members in it as Holle has stated she was invited to participate. You can't have it both ways.
And I too am curious as to why they are paying upfronts for the hubs, as well as, teaching them things we had to learn for ourselves the hard way. Nope, HP has no loyalty to many of its older members. But what else is new? This place is reminding me more of Helium every day! And we know how that place turned out, don't we? HA! "Scheme" is a good word for it!
Tell you what, working in the outside world with the three dimensional people sure means you miss a lot around here!
Hey Randy do you think that we need to put up a mail box? Looks like stuff like mail, cards and invitations isn't getting through to the Big G Sandbox?
I applied for the program because I like the idea of an upfront payment, and they might just teach me something I missed learning when working with that SEO genius, Sunforged.
Then I thought, how daft was that when my account is sandboxed and will not see Google traffic no matter what I do.
I'm like Randy though, I am still wondering the point of the upfront payment. It's almost like a stepping stone to changing the site into something else.
Just learning the whole SEO and 'how to do it right' should be enough of a 'carrot' for newbies and struggling others to want to join, never mind the payment.
Reading this thread was the first I heard of this program Izzy, so I've not even thought of applying/not applying. Probably forgot to put the stamp on my invitation lol! (or I deleted an email without really looking at the subject line )
I'm not sure what this upfront payment is all about as I think that getting a free course that teaches you a lot and mentors you is enough of a reward. If they are going to change the site to upfront payments and then you lose the right to your material then I am definitely off elsewhere.
I think that the big shame is that what is probably a very worthwhile, beneficial project has been handled in such a way that it has caused dissension among hubbers.
Every hubber on the site who is writing hubs to an acceptable standard needs to feel appreciated and encouraged, as after all we are all creating HP's revenue. This has been handled in such a way that it has done nothing to help the perception that HP is becoming more and more of an insiders club, and that if you don't have membership to the inner clique then you are not welcome.
I would have thought that this would be a perception that HP would want to dispel, to make sure that the site was inclusive and welcoming. It is human nature to always want to include your old friends and adherents in new projects and give them contest prizes etc when they do well, but there are thousands and thousands of good hubbers on the site, so maybe occasionally they need to spread their nets a bit wider and risk including some hubbers who aren't necessarily dyed-in-the wool HP cheerleaders in their projects?
Without the dissenting, original, in-your-face, grumpy, bad-tempered, unique, heretical etc, etc hubbers this will indeed become a very bland place, and we should all welcome a bit of difference and spice to liven things up a bit. But with all this recipe and how to stuff, I'm concerned that HP is morphing into some kind of vanilla flavoured 21st century Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management, and the only recipes I know involve vodka lol!
I thought about writing a hub about my vodka recipes but I couldn't stretch it out to 500 words!
I mean, basic ingredients, vodka, Coke, ice.
But you can vary it with vodka, diet Coke, ice, or even add slices of lemon or orange. Lime is nice too.
You can even drop the ice, especially in Scotland where it stays pretty cold no matter what.
But no, can't reach 500 words!
Edit: Forgot Coke Zero, that's another alternative, then there is Coke caffeine-free too, but the main ingredient is then side-lined while the hub becomes about Coke!
You could stretch it out a bit with a discussion on which are the best own-brand cola's lol!
Coca-Cola! End of hub LOL
Oh you said 'own-brand' - I've only ever tried Consum's own brand and its OK. After a few, who cares anyway? lol
Consum's own brand vodka is just under €4 which is about £3 or $4.80. Not Smirnoff, but does the job
I've got posh since I came home and have G & T's instead now
There are a few people who have stopped posting on the forums, whose views I miss even if I don't always agree with them.
I know what you mean about the vanilla recipe thing - recipes and household management articles are great and all that, but it's best to have a wide variety of subjects/viewpoints. I only found HP in the first place because I did a Google search for "emotional vampires"!
I think I found HP through Court's challenge he did a few years ago with the Keyword Academy. But it has always been touted as a place where you can write about what you want (within reason), but there does seem these days to be a definite shift towards writing hubs on how to be the perfect Stepford wife. Surely there can only be so many recipes in the world?
Wait...so Google thinks all us HP writers are emotional vampires?! Gosh.
LOL, no - someone had written a hub about emotional vampires, which just happened to be at or near the top of the Google SERPs when I found it (possibly it still is).
The point I and others were making is that the greater the diversity of subjects, the better, within reason. It would be very dull if the only hubs on HP were recipes and "how to change a sprocket doodler" type hubs - useful though those are.
The site is headed towards two major categories. #1 being recipes and how-tos' and #2 being the rest. Not surprising since people google how-to's and recipes more than any other ad-paying topics.
I wouldn't assume HubPages doesn't like what's in category #2. Anything can go viral anytime. That's the beauty of this world wide web.
I should also note that vampires are undead. They would have no emotions, whatsoever. And Google probably ranked that emotional vampire article #1. The power of HubPages at work.
You talking 'bout me?
Actually, I did get an invitation to the program (although it wasn't named at the time) but I declined because I wanted to concentrate on my own sites. Considering how many times Jason and I have crossed swords, that proves "difficult" Hubbers won't be excluded (the invitation came from Jason!).
However the way they set up the recent invitation in the newsletter did give me pause. Before you can apply for the program, you have to fill out a survey. The survey asks "how likely are you to recommend HubPages to a friend?".
It's not an anonymous survey, you have to give your username. Which makes you think, if I don't answer, "Yes, top marks! Absolutely!", I won't get into the program!
So I hope that juxtaposition was accidental and not deliberate.
"I'd love to have 1000 apprentices starting each month"
That kind of puts the kibosh on the conspiracy theories, though.
I was talking about me lol! I have always found you to be very balanced and fair in your arguments Marisa, and very generous with your time and knowledge.
But I am just concerned that these forums remain a place where every hubber feels that they can come and state their opinion, as long as they stay within the rules. Yes those opinions will be challenged and debated, but what seems to be creeping in is a kind of shrill-voiced indignation if any hubber expresses a view that is not totally supportive of, or in praise of HP and the staff, and an implication that a hubber must be totally stupid, evil or dissenting if they have have any concerns and criticisms that they wish to voice.
I only heard about the Apprentice Program from this thread (probably my lack of attention lol!) and it does seem to be a very good course that will benefit those who complete it. However, because it will be beneficial to both the hubber who has been through the course and HP, as they presumably will have a new pot of well-written articles that have also been well optimised, I'm still a bit confused as to why there has to be payments for these hubs? However, because there is a financial bonus, however small, to avoid hurt feelings and dissension, then HP would do well to be very careful of showing any signs of favouritism when selecting applicants.
Selecting who goes on a course is always going to be a potential quagmire as only a few can be chosen and there are inevitably those who are going to be disappointed, but I do like Simey's idea of having different levels from Apprentice, to Journeyman, to Expert.
These are just my observations from reading through the thread, as I personally have no interest in applying, but I do hope that the hubbers who get involved get a lot out of it.
However, I reserve the right to be cranky, contradictory, critical, concerned, praising, warm, friendly, surly or even downright stupid when I choose and I will fully support any hubber's right to totally disagree with me! It's what make's these forums interesting, and I can't imagine what a bland 'Stepford Hubbers' type of forum would be like, with everyone in perfect agreement all the time and all trotting out one, well-rehearsed party line. Happy Easter!
The survey (for NPS) is completely independent from an beta selection. We didn't use the newsletter to recruit for the apprentice beta.
We track our NPS quarterly. If you aren't familiar with NPS http://www.netpromoter.com/np/calculate.jsp
HubPages most recent score was 53. That's pretty good.
Oy - newbie ahoy - I'd be much obliged if someone could tell me what sandboxed means. I love it as a verb.
Rut roh! I recently complained about the new layout for beauty hubs. I also complained pretty strongly a while back to Simone about another issue. Does that mean I'll be kicked out of the program now?
No, of course not. Your complaints are baby sh*t!
Seriously-- please stop it. You're making me feel like absolute crap-- Like somehow, I did something wrong for being a part of this program- and I didn't. I was absolutely delighted by this offer and I enjoyed it so much and want others to be able to enjoy and improve their writing as well. Now I feel somewhat kicked between the ribs because you make it sound that because I'm a newbie I'm an awful writer and I didn't deserve to be invited?
Maybe you weren't invited because you're already a well established, successful writer and the program is targeted to those who are still learning the ropes?
You just sound bitter and jealous and you're making innocent people feel like crap over things they can't control.
I wasn't going to say anything, but I felt the same way. I like the program and even if it is making HP more profitable (which I don't have a problem with), it is making me and other members more profitable too! Thanks, Shanna.
As I told Shanna, you are not blamed for being chosen. You are simply another victim--as the rest of us are--of the insensitivity of TPTB.
I am not a victim. And neither are you.
Think about it-- you're starting a program to help improve a writer's skills and become a talented, contributing member to your overall program. Are you going to choose the well established, fine-on-their-own person, whose been there for ages and is trusted and able to create great content? Or are you going to choose the floundering newbie who shows promise, but is struggling to find her footing and could really benefit from such a program?
I would pick the newbie. Just sayin'. I could be biased.
Also, this is hardly the end of the world or even that big of a deal. You can apply and you can always participate in the program. It seems to me that you don't have an issue with the program-but that you simply feel that your pride has been snubbed because you weren't originally picked. I can understand, but really? Does it help anyone to publicly make yourself out to be a victim?
No doubt you are biased, as you cannot help but being. Suppose you had a job for many years and then someone without your experience and loyalty to the company was promoted after being there only a matter of weeks. Would YOU be pleased? It's the same thing. Try looking at it from this perspective.
Trusted? What a laugh! Have you been banned repeatedly with no explanation as to why in most cases? I even got banned for a month "accidentally" according to the email I received. No explanation for that one either. So yes, you might say I'm a bit perturbed.
But good luck with the program! There's no doubt I won't be in it!
Okay, fair enough. But the Hubpages staff are real people just trying to do their jobs. And everyone else here are real people with feelings (at least I hope so)....
Just sayin'. Again.
Shanna, you're young, so I'm going to tell you something that will save you many headaches and heartaches: Not everyone has feelings.
There is always a right way to do a job. And I'm mot too sure everyone here is real, nor has real feelings. If so, they could've fooled me! It's a business after all, feelings are sometimes excess baggage in such an internet business world. You'll find out eventually if you stay here long enough.
Well, since I fit into Writeronline's cheerful category entitled "...the stream of "I'm so passionate, I know I'll be a hugely successful writer!" wannabes" I plan on being here for a while.
You know. Because I'm passionate and dedicated. And if I end being successful, well that just makes me a wannabe-- so I've got all the bases covered no matter what I do.
I always get a kick out of those who state on their profile "I have a passion for writing" or "writing is my passion". Most of the time they can't write worth a hoot. I would never put this on a profile, even if it were true!
And you keep on being upbeat as long as you can, Shanna. There's plenty of downsides to this business to observe later on down the road. I'm merely doing this for fun at this point. I merely wanted to see if I could do it and have no background in the field at all. Perhaps I'll try something else for a while instead. Good luck to you!
Shanna, don't take it too personally. I love Randy to death, but he has had a deep suspicion of all revenue-sharing sites, ever since he was royally shafted by a site called Helium.com. He is a great guy but his cynicism comes out sometimes - I'm afraid I encouraged it in this case, mentioning Helium!
I'm not a victim. You seem to dislike HP and how you are being treated here. If I were in your position, I would probably leave the site. I hope it doesn't come to that for me and I don't think it will.
Yep, it's easy to tell someone they should probably leave after they've been here over 3 years. I prefer to hope things get better instead of worse here. If I had only been here 5 months like you, I would have already left.
Shanna, you shouldn't feel bad about something over which you had no control.
I do though... I feel like I took someone's spot who was more deserving than me.
Don't worry about it, Shanna! Believe me, your turn to be ticked off about these sort of things is guaranteed in the future. I'm sorry you guys are caught in the middle, I really mean it. Staff knew it would cause trouble, so don't take it personally!
I don't.... I'm just feeling moody after a rough night at work.
I doubt I'll ever get legitimately angry with Hubpages staff. You're free to say 'I told you so!' if you ever catch me getting ticked off though.
If I am still here I will surely tell you so. I've had the same offer from those like you before, and indeed, I told them so!
But...did you say, "Nanny nanny boo boo"? That's important, you know. You didn't call the person a blooter, did you?
This is a competitive business. Don't look back
No one is blaming you, Shanna. And this isn't the first time HP has treated its veterans this way by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps if you had been here for several years and then been ignored for those who just joined, you would understand what I'm referring to.
This isn't about you at all! HP put you in this position, so get angry at them if at anyone. They knew this would happen because they've done this before. You'll be the victim of something similar if you stay here long enough.
Bitter and jealous? Bitter at the lack of loyalty on this site, no question. Jealous? Of whom or what? I seriously doubt HP can teach originality to it's apprentices if they don't already possess it.
They're a business- they need to keep growing and bringing in new members and connecting them in some way to the site so they will stay. It's a mutually beneficial relationship if they can teach newer members to produce high quality material. The whole site will benefit from that.
If I had been here for years, I would like to believe that I would be very supportive of newer members and encourage and help them, like some older members did for me when I was new. I don't like feeling like they resent me. I would like to believe that I would be happy for newer members who get new opportunities to help improve the site overall. We all benefit.
Shanna, based on the team hubs I've read, they all contain excellent grammar, sentence structure, punctuation, etc. I feel sure HP will allow in other writers who have such skills, and there are lots of good writers here! I wouldn't think they'd waste their time on those who struggle with the English language, for example.
I know how to write, but I need help with SEO and such, as I've mentioned on the forums. Maybe that's why I was chosen? Maybe HP didn't invite some veteran hubbers because they didn't think those hubbers needed any help?
No, I don't think so either. I think being able to write in a grammatically correct fashion is probably one of the criteria for acceptance.
Although, speaking from behind the scenes, we all critique each other's hubs, and I've had plenty of grammatical errors pointed out to me....I'm not very good with apostrophes. I like to insert them with wild abandon.
RG - The object of the program is not to 'teach originality' but to educate on the processes and specifics of writing for purposes of online reading, which as you know, is very different than hard paper writing.
Many talented writers are not skilled at all in the technical aspects of online writing such as SEO, keywords, title optimization, etc. I'm one of them. I have more talent than I know what to do with but no head for researching technical necessities. So if HP is willing to lay it out for me, for free, I'm going to jump on that bandwagon in a heartbeat.
Those who are willing to move forward even though they must plow through the manure others are unwilling to forge, will have a better chance at success in that endeavor.
Yes, I know originality is not the object of this program, CPC. And whether you have more talent than you know what to do with is certainly your opinion. I certainly do not claim that for myself and besides, this is not the issue here. I merely wonder how HP chose the group in the first place and how they decided to promote those who have very little time on this site instead of those HP knew had been around through the hard times already.
Do you have more than one account, I wonder? I certainly hope so, as having only 6 hubs doesn't bode well for your opinion having much weight on this subject. But you are free to express yourself as we all are. Good luck getting invited to the program!
Thanks. We'll see how it goes if I get accepted. I had many more hubs at one time but removed most of them to other sites. WriteAngled just enlightened me regarding the number of writers to this site and the amount of time it would take if we all waited our turn. Can't really speak to the selection process.
Shanna, before getting too much into criticising and judging the motivations of people who’ve been on the site for a while, please recognise that there’s no guaranteed relationship between length of time on HP and degree of income generated.
I’ve been here just over a year. Written a number of Hubs. Recently unpublished many of them, but have left up the ones about writing. Because writing’s how I made my living for over 30 years, and (contrary to your casual and unfair assumption that HP members disappointed in the apprenticeship program’s selective benefits are motivated by bitterness and jealousy) because I’ve learned quite a lot, I’d like to pass on anything that may be of benefit to fellow writers. Especially newer writers.
You can judge for yourself their worth as informative, helpful articles (if you can be bothered looking, up to you). For a human audience, I think they provide value. But as far as Google is concerned, they have no worth at all. After 13 months, Google AdSense has allocated $13 to them.
HP is filled with similar failures to myself. Because, as the apprenticeship program notes point out, success online is not just (not even) about writing.
It’s about understanding all the tricks and techniques of being seen, noticed, and rated by Google. That's the focus (as you'll know, having completed the Program). Not grammatically correct sentences, which even old people like myself, are capable of constructing..
All of us ‘failures’ could benefit from hands-on mentoring and upfront payment for our work, so the idea that HP will hand-pick what it sees as the ‘stars of the future’ (their words, not mine) and give them a preferential leg-up is almost guaranteed to create at least some level of disappointment / concern, amongst people who’ve been trying, and failing, and trying again, for some time, a sense of betrayal.
PS: I’m not a victim, I don’t feel bitter or jealous, and I’m not anti-newbie, so please don’t come back at that level, should you choose to respond to my comments. This is an attempt to broaden your view of the situation, that’s all.
I can see your point of view and I'm sorry you weren't picked for the program-- I can completely understand your feelings. I'm sure I would be unhappy if I was not picked. However, writing and being successful online means a lot to me and I would pursue the program still and apply.
I guess maybe that's just me and my naivety, but if you want that experience and leg-up badly enough, you will go for it until you get accepted into the program. Stewing about it doesn't help much unless you've decided to just post your displeasure a few times and then leave. =/
What a shame. I invited you to either respond like an adult, or not bother.
I don't need your patronising tone, and silliness. And certainly don't admire your sense of superiority. Part of adult discourse is being able to listen to, and respect the views of others.
Clearly, you're one of those people who can't read and comprehend at the same time. Pity the HP apprenticeship can't teach that.
Are you freaking kidding me? Patronising? Silliness? Sense of superiority? NONE of that was meant at all. I was TRYING to be polite and see things from your side of the table. Give me a flipping break!
I cannot BELIEVE you would post that at ALL. You ought to be ashamed of yourself!
If I said what I want to say to you I would get banned, and I do so love the cut, thrust and moronic behaviour on the forums.
So all I'll say is that if WriterOnline decides to go, I will miss him a great deal. He is all the things a writer should be, plus years of experience, knowledge and most of all humor.
Fair enough- but I feel extremely hurt by what he said, when I don't feel it was warranted. I was very honestly trying to be polite and see what he meant-- and I did. I was NOT expecting a post from him later snarking at me about being patronising, or silly or having a sense of superiority. None of those things are true and were meant, and it hurts. I don't mean to be a little girl about it, but it does really hurt my feelings.
And for him to then go and insult my intelligence and make me out to be a child? Completely out of line and very hurtful. I meant nothing of the sort and I was trying to be polite and adult-like. There's no humor in hurting innocent people.
Forum posts are easy to get out of control. People, generally, would be better off not posting at all - I certainly would.
There are real people with real issues behind some of these posts. WO has been crapped on, or felt that way, pretty much since he arrived here.
(I don't need an HP staff member telling me that isn't the case. I've had enough of those this week)
I won't attempt to explain WO's words, or why he felt like he does, or even if he was right to express it in such a way - but I suggest we all climb off our high horses.
We're all real!
Apart from... well I won't go into details.
Shanna, one thing about writing:
The message is always more than just the words.
All your comments in this forum have been focused on you, your feelings, your 'needs'. (Read them again if you don't agree). You've failed to grasp the bigger picture some of us are attempting to canvass. In fact, you've made no apparent effort.
So there's no point in your disclaiming your false outrage by saying "I don't mean to be a little girl about it". That message sings loud and clear.
Then your last response, incredibly, lowers the standard even further.
I seldom visit the forums. Your self-indulgence reminds me why.
Shanna, you don't need to apologise. If you can't say what you think in the forums, where else are you going to? Equally, other people are entitled to do likewise. What I would rather you do, instead of feeling that you've had to 'make nice' to some old fart who probably knows FA anyway, would be to go and read some of the stuff I've said I'm disappointed Google doesn't rate. See if you'd feel the same way, and maybe broaden your perspective up to you, of course.
PS: I'm leaving anyway, but will leave some hubs up.
If you want to succeed on Hubpages (in terms of visitor numbers and income)you really do need to work out what the site can deliver.
The staff here encourage authentic and original articles which is fair enough. If you are interested in the usual popular culture things your authentic contributions can generate a lot of interest and make you a lot of money.
If you are exceptionally knowledgeable in a particular area that is important to every one (jobs, parenting, health etc) then you can also do well.
If you are not really the kind of person who would ever read a novel by Suzanne Collins or watch 'Idol' (I would rather die)you can still study the popular trends and serve up something that interests devotees (with as little irony as you can manage).
What you cannot complain about is writing stuff that interests you plus a small number of other people and consequently gets few visitors. If you decide to suit yourself you are obliged to accept the result.
Thanks for that deep insight, Will. I also am aware that to cross a room one needs to put one foot in front of the other, just in case you feel the need to explain more stuff that your average bear understands as a matter of simple common sense.
If in fact though, you do seriously think your observation is breaking new ground, casting light where little has shone before, you have my deepest condolences - it could be a long time before you catch up with the more difficult things, like tying your own shoelaces for instance. (Tell you what, I'll write a Hub about it before I go. "How to" stuff rates well, dunnit?)
Your input here is just another example of people mouthing off, in absolute ignorance of another's skills, area of expertise, knowledge or experience.
I don't know anything about you, Will, and for that very reason, would not presume to throw gratuitous generalisations your way. Would that you displayed similar respect.
No matter, just keep pounding out the platitudes - but do try and keep both hands above the desk. I imagine it takes a special skill to type with one hand and.., well I'm sure we don't need to describe what the other hand's busy doing, do we?
Although, taking your helpful advice, if writing about stuff you're deeply skilled at is the way to success - there's your next Hub topic.
No need to thank me for the idea, Will. Least I can do.
Tell me then, why do you think you have failed on this site so completely? I will be genuinely interested to hear.
Wow! You should have visited the forums more. There's not many people here who dare to tell things as they are anymore. Sure, you run the risk of getting banned if you tell the real truth when things stink, and you'll be despised by those who march in step, but at least you get to keep your self respect. Remember back when that was an important thing to possess? Ah, the good ole days.
The good old days - are we getting old?
But the forums will be a much blander, less productive place without the likes of writeronline and yourself Randy. I really miss some of the old faces who told it like it was, but were also very generous with their time and knowledge.
The day that the HP staff are too scared to listen to criticism or tolerate a bit of good old fashion whinging is the day that they should probably pack it in.
Bread needs yeast to rise and curry needs spice to give it a kick!
I am basing my response on pure experience. I would say keep your application in. As with any class, course, program, et cetera, there is a huge benefit to having a diverse group. So I think having a veteran hubber would add something extra to the cohort running at the time. When I put in my application, and crossing my fingers to be accepted, I know I would be looking for someone with a lot of experience to help me along and encourage me!
If it wasn't for that one word 'brand' I might apply myself.
Why would a human being want to be a brand?
Will, I used the word "brand" in the context of the writer persona that we each build as we continue writing online.
There is nothing wrong with the word reputation. Why try to replace it with something that carries so much baggage?
Writers busily undermining their own language, lol
I understand what you're saying. But, when we are writing online for profit, we are making a "brand" of ourselves. Especially if we use our own names as our usernames.
I think the use of the word "brand" is fair. Although we oldies might prefer the word "reputation", the fact is that "branding" has become the new word for it in internetspeak.
Is this a word used in the new apprentice program? Or is it your own take on authorship?
Will, I'm agreeing with you again. Who are you, and what have you done with the real Will?
Will - The whole idea of branding is to give the public something by which you are instantly recognizable. If you differentiate yourself from the rest in some way, and the public sees this differentiation and associates it with you, you have brand recognition. Why else would you be in business? I know many writers are artists and have no head for business but that's the bottom line if you want to make your writing a business and not just an art.
With regard to the word reputation, when you think of a certain brand, you are reminded of the reputation of the company behind the brand. It is used in the apprenticeship program but it's been a successful marketing ploy used in retail for decades.
Sounds like sympathetic magic to me. Apple is a brand and makes a lot of money. If I turn myself into a brand I will make a lot of money too.
Stick drawings of logos on the cave wall.
There probably is some sense behind the non-sense of branding individuals but I would prefer the sense than the buzzword.
In a serious reply though, the basic idea of teaching hubbers how to write for the search engines is sound (as opposed to 'how to write').
If everyone changed their writing ever so slightly to have one eye on SEO while the other focuses on writing great content, this site could be pulled right up.
Unfortunately, it becomes divisive when it is a private enterprise and not open to all.
I can understand why it is not open to everyone, because HP has its fair share of spammers who could use that knowledge to their advantage, but to the disadvantage of the site.
The upfront payments means that even newbies can start out earning $50 a month here almost from day 1.
This should encourage even more good writers to the site.
That said, why offer the program to established members at all?
$50 a month may not seem a lot, but it is when you don't have it!
If it is going to be a serious program that involves time and resources then it is can only reasonably be offered to a small amount of people at any one time. I think that it makes sense to restrict it to relative newbies who have fulfilled what the application process requires. Because a course like this is a valuable resource in itself, I really don't see why there needs to be any financial reward involved.
I think that involving experienced hubbers and Elites has muddied the waters somewhat, and was almost bound to lead to howls of unfair. Maybe a better way would be to hold a different sort of program for experienced hubbers who are serious about improving their SEO, formatting and social networking skills.
Anyway back to my patch of sand to start experimenting with the cocktail shaker!
Now that is an excellent idea!
You back in the sandbox? I thought you came out of it, went back in, then came out again? Obviously not. Sorry to hear that. Me too, only I never came out of it.
No I had a little peek back out over the edge yesterday, but since my return to your august company, my traffic has experienced some days of all-time lows! I'm not sure that being let out occasionally for visits to the sunlit uplands of Google traffic is that great really, as you get your hopes up again, get all enthused and then get slapped back down.
I really must do something about the 'vacuous' stuff I write lol!
I have a fairly new niche subdomain that is doing well. I have several really long and informative articles on the same niche here that get NO Google traffic.
I am thinking of writing a couple of related hubs on the new account and pointing them towards the comprehensive hubs on this account (rather than move them over).
Looks like that is the best bet for those of us with slapped accounts. One day traffic may return and those hubs will have 'aged'.
Hypno - I've had as many as 50+ hubs on here which were not making much money. I'm not a newbie to HP or to writing in general but know little about optimizing for online. The whole idea that newbies to the site need more help or that non-newbies don't need help doesn't hold water. The selection process may be secret but the fact that writers at all levels have been offered applications says the process is probably unbiased except when it comes to well known agitators. No boss in his right mind would offer something valuable to a company agitator.
What I actually said is that I think that the apprentice program should be reserved for newbies/relatively new newbies and that there should be a similar, but different and separate program for more experienced/longer term hubbers.
I actually like Simey's idea of an apprentice, journeyman and expert tiered program, where hubbers can slot in at a level appropriate to them. This would be a very transparent process and cause a lot less dissension than the what seems to be currently happening.
Good company bosses do include some of the agitators in their projects because they know they can learn something from them and the boss needs to keep a handle on what is being agitated about, but HP does not employ us and they are not our bosses. They provide a platform and we place our content on it - in an ideal world this is a win-win situation, but this is not an ideal world and sometimes hubbers get ticked off and feel they are not being treated fairly and, no doubt, sometimes HP staff feel that they are being unfairly attacked or criticised by hubbers
I agree, the nature of the program means only a handful of Hubbers can be accepted at one time, so being offended at missing out on the beta is just plain silly. They had to choose somehow! It looks like they went for a mixture of newer and older Hubbers, and who knows how they decided - maybe a pin on a piece of paper, maybe Hubscores, who knows, who cares?
Like I said, I've caused enough waves in my time, yet I was still invited (though I didn't accept).
I do think it's the upfront payment that's getting people's backs up. Participants are already getting huge value from mentoring and networking - yet they get paid for their Hubs as well?
They invited you because they wanted you to be more successful with them. The upfront payment is less than I make for selling articles online at the cheapest rates. I have trouble figuring out where you're at? Why don't you use your obvious talents to help the site and help yourself?
No need to be rude. I'm not the one complaining about the program, I'm trying to be sympathetic to the feelings of those who are upset by it.
And although $6 is not a large amount, it is more than an ordinary Hub is likely to earn in its early months, so in that sense it is a significant boost.
If you've taken my statement as rude, I apologize. But in light of Paul's post, the complaints are rather diluted. I'd take that as HubPages caring about what its community thinks of it.
I sense that you you're on the fence with HubPages. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking to benefit from the projected upsurge of this site.
You've said before to publish more online before I speak. If I did, would that give me the credibility to criticize HubPages?
Personally I didn't feel Paul fully addressed the issues - he was silent about why they chose to make an upfront payment and whether there are any conditions attached.
What projected upsurge? You're right, I am on the fence. I love the HubPages community and see it as my online home, but I'm still undecided about whether the platform can ever recover its former success. This program will certainly help some Hubbers, but as we all have our own sub-domains, the success of others doesn't necessarily mean the success of all.
Every Hubber has the right to say what they think about HubPages.
Projected upsurge - the repeated demands and filters of the site to get more quality content.
I know, HubHoppers still find spam content, but this won't be the case for long, most likely.
Thanks, I reserve my right to check out any sites I spend time on. Which I most definitely do. My opinions cannot be bought, like yours.
My humble guess is that this site will surpass any former growth in the near future.
I've been here 4 years. The complaints about spam content have been around almost as long as I have. So I am not holding my breath about the problem disappearing. Spammers and auto-bloggers are an ingenious bunch - every time a site thinks of a way to stop them, they think of a way round it.
That's a pretty serious accusation. Can you be more specific about who you think has bought my opinion, of what, and why?
I've read and re-read that - "My opinion cannot be bought, like yours."
At first glance it says your opinion is not bought, then when I saw your response I thought it meant the opposite.
I've now gone back to my first thought. He's agreeing with you.
It's a badly organized sentence. If he'd said " Like yours, my opinion cannot be bought.", he'd have been clearer. But the words "like yours" are placed too near to the word 'bought'.
In fact, take the comma out of his sentence and it is really does change the whole meaning of it.
Here: Like yours, my opinions cannot be bought. Better?
I don't see any problems with giving people some money to help provide an incentive to write quality hubs. The homework rules require that they produce hubs that are chosen by their mentor. There are likely to also be other homework rules (maybe using hubs by others as links), etc.
Especially if you are new, and only making pennies per hub, you will need some incentive to keep trying, using the rules that the mentor has provided. I know when I started, I had a hard time devoting so much time to an endeavor that was earning me two cents for eight to nine hours worth of work. To have to do it on someone else's schedule with someone else's guidelines would have been impossible at that time.
The money also cushions them against losses - in case the hubber found a more lucrative niche, but had to keep writing for the class in order to stay in the program.
Phew! Just finished the course! That was fantastic! Sorry about the exclamation marks but that was the last lesson!! The more you put in, the better your writing is!!!!
Anyways, I made a bunch of money and met all sorts of new people. I learned about stuff and...
Yes, I am joking.
Not about exclamation marks though!!! They are the mark (geddit?) of a fabulous writer!!!
Mark c/o Asylums R Us
Good feedback Mark and thanks for your two cents as well, in reference to the apprenticeship program. Congrats on completing the program and it must have been exciting, not only to complete it recently, but also to have experienced a lot of worthwhile and useful information within the course. And the extra money earned certainly doesn't hurt does it? Again good for you.
Just to confirm my brilliance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, while it is good to see that HP is trying to improve the quality of articles posted on the site, it is a pity they have chosen such an extremely divisive way in which to do it. If staff members truly did not realise the sort of reactions this would provoke, they must be very naive.
The fact that people who succeed in getting onto the programme are being paid in addition to getting all the free training can only be seen as a further example of: to those that have, more will be given (while those who have nothing are left to rot).
Even if HP wanted a small group of what they seem to view as elite "stars" for personal grooming, they could have made the training materials available to all members for use in unsupervised self-study. If the point of the training is to improve quality and earning prospects, this would result in benefits all round, since obviously any increase in earnings by people writing here also translates into increased profits for HP.
Yes it has created a backlash and I know of several hubbers who have more or less left the site because of what they perceive as favouritism towards certain members to the detriment of the rest.
This would have been the final straw on top of previous examples shown, most notably contest winners, of whom the same people seem to be guaranteed a prize each contest, if they enter.
But I think we should rise above what could be perceived as petty jealousies, and accept that it is not our site, therefore not ours to run, and to make the most of the opportunities offered here.
HP is still a tremendously powerful platform, and a non-slapped account can still do pretty well.
I want the upfront payments in the apprenticeship program to stay, because it would be incredibly unfair if they stopped them now that certain people have already benefited from them.
You could read through the learning center. Seems to cover everything.
WriteA - I still don't see the reason for all this hubbub. Everyone can't get in on the first round or the second or third. They can only take so many at a time, like any class. Some people (not you) need to get off their high horse and realize that they don't or can't always come first. We'd all like to come first. The dissenters seem to protest too much without perspective.
Actually when you look at it from this point of view writeangled, it does make a whole lot of sense doesn't it? More hubs from all writers does eventually equate to more dollars for HP, so it would not only behoove all those in the program, but also allow some of us to continue to hone our writing skills, by utilizing the materials in the program. And do so without necessarily having to join right away, because of varied time constraints. We should all be allowed to continue to put into the kitty in one form or another.
If the intention of the program is effectively to have a minimum of 240 quality hubs from each group then regardless if we all get the 'invite' it will benefit everyone.
I just wrote on a 'blog' that it's a glass half full situation and some will see good in the program while others will see evil!
Why not keep our critisism back until we see the program run for a few months and see if it does reward established members as well as newbies.
If after a few months we see 1 established member and 6000 newbies in the program then it is justified critism!
Hubpages are really in a now in situation - with only 30 members per group they are going to p&&S off someone - so should they stop trying to innovate simply because they want to be nicey nicey to everyone? I for one applaud their attempt to improve the site and will hold my judgement on whether this program is equitable and successful for a few months.....
Way to BN, Simey! This should get you an invite pretty quickly! I think I counted 9 newbies under 6 months membership who posted on this thread. This doesn't leave much room for the greeters in the first 30, does it? And we still don't know how many newbies have been invited in the first wave. Let's see, at 30 a month that's only 360 a year at this rate.
Oh, I'll bet the newbies are supposed to teach the rest of us oldies when they get through the program. The ultimate slap upside the noggin would be right in line with the way things are heading here. And yes, after all of the previous slights we've suffered, HP knew darn well what they were doing and what trouble would come of it. Certainly they won't claim they didn't, or will they?
It's not BN....it's called not being cynical.
There are 4 established members in the program and one who didn't answer the invite.
So we know 4 established (at least) and 9 newbies in two groups - there were 60 beta members - so that leaves 47 unknowns.
I do not know the make-up of these nor do you - you assume the other 47 are newbies....you may be right.
I am not disregarding your questioning of the scheme and you may well be right - but just as you're allowed to be cynical am I not allowed to hold my judgement for a few months? How is that BN? I may turn out and fully support your view.
And also I am totally against the new look - so if I take the cynical approach that's me out of the program already!
Let us know when you get the invite and we'll see how the BNing worked, Simey! Seriously, you'll consider the glass half full like many others until it's tossed in your face, but by the time you find out what the outcome is it will be too late to speak out, as you've already taken up for them. What good would it do then?
And I did not assume the rest of the group were newbies. I merely pointed out those who posted on this thread. I'm sure HP will gladly give us a list if we ask them. (joking)
I'm not suggesting the program is a bad thing at all, just badly handled as usual. I am sure however, they were well aware of the problems it would cause by doing this in such a manner. Thus the secrecy they utilized in the first place. The whole thing is certainly humorous to me as nothing surprises me here anymore. And I am laughing at it despite what others may think. It's not as if I depend on HP for anything substantial any longer. ;P
I enjoy the debate - and I'm not naiive enough (well not quite) to think that the program may come back and whack me in the face!
Also - I wonder how many established writers are not saying that their in the program too!
I guess I am always overly objective - most of the things HP have done have benefited me in some small way so I am lucky I guess!!!
I really don't mean to be so hard on you, Simey as I consider you a worthy member here. Unfortunately, being a worthy member isn't worth a hoot to HP as we are merely numbers on a computer program. I truly hope you are accepted in the program if you want to be in it. I do wonder who taught the teachers, though!
I know and thanks! I never take anything personal on here - well at least not for more than a few minutes! I respect everyone's opinions - usually the ones who have well formulated arguments (even if they are different to mine!) are the ones who are top writers!
Glad you don't take it personally, Simey! And despite what others may think, I have everyone's best interest at heart when I create a stench on the forums. Like Marisa said earlier in this thread, I've dealt with some very bad writing sites before and hate to see this one go the way of those others.
When a site starts showing favoritism to those who haven't contributed as much as those who helped establish it in the first place, it is usually the beginning of the end. I only hope HP will eventually get a good member PR person as they certainly don't have one now! I've said my peace and unless I'm addressed further by anyone else I'll just fade back into the woodwork now.
A sense of self entitlement is what's causing all the dissention. Some people feel slighted because they weren't picked first or second and had no part in the beta process Any company has a right to run that company and implement changes as they see fit. From what I'm reading from those who have completed or are in the program, there is a sense of familiarity with staff, so this counters the 'number on a computer' theory. It'll take some time, but eventually all those who want to partake will likely get the opportunity.
I think that the view of some people is that they are not trying to be nicey nicey to everyone, but just some people.
Whether this is actually true or not, they still have a PR issue with some hubbers here which would benefit us all if they attempted to resolve.
The site seems to be polarising between HP Cheerleaders who will brook no criticism of the site at all and can be fairly aggressive if they sense even a whiff of dissent and the rest of us who just jog along, but will speak up when we have an issue
I agree, there is a PR issue and a perception that HP doesn't always have the member's interest at heart - and this is something that HP does have to fix! I also feel that HP are open to constructive critism, but there's a very fine line between constructive and non-constructive - and as is the case there's a whole boat load of subjectivity involved.
I've seen HP react to critism and change things, but I've also seen people ignored.
The problem for me is that the forum isn't really the place to discuss 'business issues' - although I'm not sure where the right place is - a more formal approach where concerns are voiced and addressed in a calm and constructive way is needed so that we all can have a voice.
We'll never have total calm here but I agree that there must be a better way to discuss these things without feeling you're rocking the boat.
I think you can rest assured that HP is monitoring this forum with due notation.
Honestly, I think this small HubPages staff is busier than we give them credit for sometimes. It isn't a big staff, and there's a ton of work to do on a site like this to keep it relevant, yes? I doubt they're looking to step on member toes, but rather, they're scrambling everyday to keep this site at the head of the pack. Something to consider.
Agreed - but there is a way to communicate that wouldn't upset so many people - intentionally or non intentionally! I honestly don't think Staff think 'Today I'm going to piss off xxxxx today' - they, like many of us, should simply read their forum entries and then view it as if it was sent to them....I do this often and many of my forum entries go unpublished because I realize what I am about to post is inane or possibly offensive!
Maybe they need a PR team, then. I know what you're talking about. There are some insensitive or cold replies from staff on this site, no doubt. Now, you've got a situation where people are going to stew over this new issue for a weekend without much hope of an HP team member getting involved (which I don't know if they'd deem that wise, anyway).
What I meant to impress is that this business of operating a writer's platform seems precarious. The person(s) in charge are probably giving more weight to tasks relevant to keeping the site on top, rather than spending much time appeasing its members.
If it were me, I'd launch a campaign aimed at helping sandboxed or long-term members who are gaining little traffic. I'd make that my next order of business. It's true that there are a finite number of people willing to make a real go at this writing online stuff. The ones that have been doing it for years, steadily, would be deemed an untapped resource?
Building a team of young and not-so-skeptical writers and teaching them how to use keywords and SEO is a brilliant move for the site. The next obvious step would be to get into some of these accounts that have good content, but have been set aside by Google. Heck, they might even learn something valuable by doing so.
That's not a bad idea - have an apprentice program but then also have a Jounreyman and then an Expert program - so some users who probably are already too good for the Apprentice program could go on to the Journeyman one etc....
Expert program could have the advice for Panda traffic falls and how to keep on top of that, what to try if you've been sandboxed. Advice that can only be given on a case by case basis. Definitely.
EDIT: For long-term members, say over 2 or 3 years.
Everyone has a right be twisted and bitter. It's a role. It can be an identity (with very little work). It's a comfort if things have not gone well to think everyone is out to get you.
Never underestimate the allure of masochism.
Who said everyone is out to get them, Will? Do you accuse everyone who speaks up about things they consider wrong twisted and bitter? I've certainly read a few complaints by you before on the forums. Twisted and bitter are you? Oh, that's different, right?
Why on earth would you think I was referring to you Randy?
I am sure you are busy the learning the lessons of life and setting a true course.
That is all any of us can do.
So who then were you referring to in your post, Will?
The older I get, the more likely I am to throw out random philosophical speculations and trust the universe to metabolise them.
Wow! What a coincidence your random philosophical speculation came out in this thread, especially with so many others to post it in. What are the odds it would be so? Sorry!
Will - "throw out random philosophical speculations and trust the universe to metabolise them."
I love this. Can I steal it?
Does anyone know how long this application process will be open? With Easter weekend I can't get to it until Monday.
"No boss in his right mind would offer something valuable to a company agitator."
I was not aware that some people here consider themselves as belonging to a company, whether they be agitators therein or otherwise.
The reason I personally went full-time freelance in 2004 is because I wished to be in a situation where I did not have "bosses" I am in the fortunate situation of being able to tell client I no longer wish to work on their projects the minute any of them start trying to treat me like an employee. I certainly do not see a web site where I write when I feel like it as being a boss!
Secondly, according to HP's own statistics, dated 5th April 2012, this site currently has "220,097 published users". That means a total of 7337 months, i.e. 611 years and 5 months before the last user succeeds in getting a place on this programme.
I'm not actually bothered in the least myself, because I have long given up the idea that this site could provide a cushion for my lack of pension. At least I can continue doing my real work for as long as I wish. However, I can see the injustice of the situation when so very many people are desperately trying to make a living from this site. Also, favouritism is something that gets people highly worked up. .
WriteA - Yes, fortunate you! Thanks for the incredible statistics. I guess I was being overly optimistic. (understatement)
I respect your opinion and your writing. Getting off topic, I've been meaning to tell you that every time I see your avatar, I think of a young Shirley MacLaine. Any suggesstions on how to get freelance work?
I'm a freelance translator, so can't advise on the writing side, I'm afraid. I became one through a pure fluke. I started playing round on a translators' web site during my lunch/coffee breaks at work. I enjoyed contributing to a section where people ask for help with difficult words/phrases. Out of the blue, an agency contacted me with a translation job, so I said yes for the hell of it, even though I am not a trained linguist. They were happy, kept coming back for more and things just took off from there...
If there is any lesson at all from my case, it is that opportunities come from the strangest places and it is good to stretch and move outside your comfort zone to catch some interesting ones you might never have considered in your saner moments!
couturepopcafe, obviously you're a skilled writer. I built a successful freelance writing business using basic (to me, businesslike) processes. I wrote a Hub about it, if you want to waste a few minutes seeing if there's anything you can use. Good luck.
PS: I'm about to exit HP, but I'll leave a few hubs up, incl that one, at least for a while.
Sorry you're leaving, WO! I fear I won't be long behind you, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I was going to email you but I didn't see your contact info on your profile. Sorry dude. This used to be a pretty good place to meet and talk with other writers without being censored by the mods or having others hit the report button if you didn't toe the line. Feel free to drop me a line if you wish.
I don't believe you would completely leave HP, Randy. You had a good thing going here for a while, and you probably will again. I still believe your traffic will return.
If it was merely the traffic I have problems with here, then I can deal with that. And besides, this isn't the same HP I joined three years ago. My BS tolerance meter is running over close to the red zone right about now. Heck,I wouldn't be surprised to see Rex on the boards here before long!
Mark...lol..."The cut, thrust, and moronic behavior on the forums." Truly apt my friend! I would be disappointed to see WriterOnline leave as you are correct in your appraisal of him!
Forums are like kindergartens. You look around a kindergarten and some kids are playing nice with a toy, some are running around like crazy people, some are sitting on their own crying their eyes out (and being completely ignored).
Once you get used to that you can have some fun.
I love the sibling rivalry theme in this thread. 'Why is she going to the new school and I'm not!'
I enjoyed Shanna's shrill and spirited defense.
And I enjoyed being unkind to one I will not name.
And now I am going to read some more Cormac McCarthy (something about red neck despair and shooting Mexicans). I will enjoy that too.
I will 'out' myself now as part of Group 2. Why me? Don't really know, but I took the invitation to mean that I am a decent writer, but could use some help with SEO, keyword research and maybe a few other 'online' lessons. I also have a pretty good niche given my specialty and could do better (me & Hubpages) if I was encouraged/incentivized to write more. And it's working.
I had just seen a big uptick in views over the last few months for whatever reason, which then prompted me to write my first hub in a really long time and was just thinking about setting up my own site when I got the invite. I wasn't sure, but decided to jump in and it kept me writing here, instead of starting something new since I don't have time for both. It's easier here with the layouts and so on. So here I am.
I've been here 16 months and have written with variable frequency on several topics, but do best with the anesthesia hubs, so that's what I'm doing. The upfront payments and help with titles make it worth writing with more frequency. That's my story.
I've only noticed it's appearance recently, and after looking at the details of the program, I was instantly interested in where this could take me with my online writing career.
I joined HP 11 months ago and wrote a couple of hubs. Then I got busy selling on eBay as well creating websites/blogs which helped me gain more knowledge about writing, marketing and seo. I have more time now and decided to return here and get more involved as it seems like a great and diverse community. I read about the apprentice program and thought it sounded terrific. I have applied but I believe there is a wait list. It sounds like many of the seniors here at HP feel jilted by the selection process as well as the fact that it is geared towards newbies so to speak, but as an outsider peeking in, it seems like HP is experimenting with new ideas to get hubbers up and running as quickly as possible. This may just be the beginning and if it proves to be successful, perhaps HP will implement more programs that will be targeted for specific groups such as the seniors here at HP. In my humble opinion, this would be a benefit. I can understand that feeling like you're left out does not give one a 'warm' or 'fuzzy' feeling, but please try not to be so hard on the newbies that have been accepted in the program. I hope that I, too, will get a chance at an invitation to participate. If successful, it would not surprise me if HP does continue to add new and innovative programs in the future for all target groups. Again, just my newbie humble opinion..no offense to anyone intended.
But it's not about being "left out". Not for me, anyway.
For me the main concern is that the upfront payments and mentoring offered on the apprentice program will make many (if not all) people who benefit from it feel that they can't voice any criticisms - at least, not without experiencing a major sense of ingratitude. It's the manufacture of consent, if you will. Whether that is a conscious policy on HP's part, I don't know.
All companies experience growing pains and hopefully learn from them just as we, individuals, do. I don't think that most people would feel hesitant to make suggestions or express their opinion in a thoughtful manner based on fear of being seen as ingrateful. Criticism by way of complaining is usually unproductive where critcism by way of suggestions and problem solving should be viewed as productive. I believe it's all in the "way" it is expressed. Companies that wish to continue to grow, listen. If that is not the case and one feels they are being treated unfairly and it falls on deaf ears, then it leaves only one option, part company. Again, just my humble opinion and pretty much how I live my life.
Did that happen with the Flagship Hub program? I wasn't here at the time it was in operation, and I genuinely don't know. I'm definitely not trying to challenge, just to understand.
Does anyone know how long the wait list to get into the Apprenticeship program is? I applied, received an email generally describing what I'd read online here, but I have gotten no answer. If I knew my place on the waitlist, I could be more of a patient waiter.
According to the original email, you should hear back within two weeks of your application whether you were accepted or you're on a wait list. If accepted, you start the first of the following month.
I have a question,
I got invited to a BETA in Feb., but was unsure of what it was. Was this the BETA program for apprenticeship program and if so, will I still be able to enter the program even if I did sign up when I was invited?
Um is there any way to know if I applied properly? I didn't get an email (like SandyMcCollum) generally describing the program, although I did get the description in the standard newsletter!
Does the form 'go away' from the 'My Account' section after applying.
NOw I'm worried......
Here is another instance in which I never even thought of being offended that some people were asked to take part in the beta and others weren't. The same with the Elite debate. I just don't understand why people get offended so easily. It makes sense to me that if they want to have a program to teach people how they want them to write for the site only accepts a few each month or three months whatever it is. Everyone can't do it all at once, that is only common sense.
I don't consider myself naive. To me this program is to improve the quality of submissions to the site and to maybe pass on some SEO tips which might help us all in the long run. They may have other reasons which I don't know about but for now I can accept what they say.
No organisation run by human beings is perfect. HP is run by human beings. So HP is not run perfectly.
I think we can all say we would run HP differently. The fact is that we are suppliers or contributors on HP's platform. The tail does not wag the dog. We do not run HP. If we do not like what HP do we can walk away. Quite a few of us do some stuff on HP and some stuff elsewhere. We try to follow our commercial interest. So does HP.
I assume HP have a thought out rationale for whom they have invited, and a similar rationale for which applicants they will select. Presumably it is designed to maximise HP's profit.
Hurt feelings do not come into it. Nor does loyalty. HP is not a social club, it is a business. If I purchase from Ford instead of Volkswagon I am not disrespecting Volkswagon. For what I need the Ford is more appropriate.
I do like the concept for the journeyman course. And yes I have applied for the apprentice course.
I haven't posted a new Hub in quite some time because, to be honest, I have not been too impressed with HP's ability to attract the attention of search engines the way it once did, but I think this is a really excellent program.
Independent of any personal interest in the program, I think initiatives like this one are exactly the type of thing that makes me interested in writing here again.
Wow. It's amazing to see the number of quality applicants coming in each day for the apprenticeship program. The selection process is going to be very tough. It's a credit to all of you.
We are always listening to feedback in the forums and from time to time reach out to people for programs that we want to test in a private beta. We offer private betas as a way to collect data, and to see if we should scale various programs out. Some efforts are shutdown, while others become public betas and ultimately fully operational features/programs.
We've run programs like HubCamps, contests (grow the pot for old timers), and the flagship program over the years. The general idea behind all of these is how can we help people be more successful through education. The purpose of these programs is to give people the opportunity to learn by providing some structure.
I'm super excited about the apprentice program because it brings together the most elements we've found that contributed to Hubbers' success. There were a few questions about the selection of apprentices. It's a combination of new and old Hubbers. 30 new apprentices started with the first class. Since there is very limited availability, we can only accept a fraction of the qualified applicants. While this isn't comprehensive, applicants that were selected have strong writing skills, deep interests, and exhibit a desire to be helpful to others - These are the attributes that make HubPages a world class community.
My hope is we will be able to get multiple groups of apprentices starting per month in the coming year (I'd love to have 1,000 apprentices starting each month).
Thanks again to the inaugural class for sharing so much of their experience and thanks to all of you that have applied to put the pressure on us to get the resources in place to accept all the talented people that have shown interest.
Beta tests are something I'm very familiar with from online gaming. For the casual internet user, I can verify this is a common practice. I wasn't aware HubPages operated on such a model, but it's a good business practice.
I'm impressed to hear you're looking to offer apprenticeships to so many per month. Sounds pretty much all-inclusive to me, eventually. Kudos.
After reading some of the thread, not all of it, I'm curious why some hubbers assume all newbies don't know how to write well. HP attracts writers! It's an online publishing site. I don't see why HP would need to exclusively limit a new program to veteran hubbers only. There is a fresh excitement with new writers that I'm sure HP admin notices. And for the complainers, well, come on, who would you choose first for a brand new program? Those who always complain about your business model?
This thread is a genuine high point in Hubber mass hysteria.
What could cause less offense than a free opportunity to learn a trade?
And what could generate more of a furore?
Still, it helps get the Apprenticeship program noticed and that can only be good for the site. I imagine the staff are delighted by the frenzy of interest being generated.
And it was light relief for me last night stuck inside during a storm with only a wine box and the cat for company.
I wonder who the mentors are in the program? Strangely enough, not a single one is mentioned in this thread that I can see.
Why is my interest unpleasant? His time here has been a failure as far as I make out. I am curious to know what happened.
Sorry to be so long returning to your question, Will. I was temporarily banned for “a comment made on the Apprenticeship Program forum topic”.
It’s a shame, because the likelihood of further banning prevents me from responding as directly and openly as I would otherwise have liked to your professed concerns about how my time on HP has been less than fulfilling.
How about I just float the word ‘disingenuous’ and you arrange it in a sentence featuring ‘Will Apse’?
But to answer in a way that surely can’t cause any affront, the reasons I (and many others) feel like failures at the Hubber’s Art, is the dichotomy between stuff that readers rate as quality; but Google doesn’t rate at all.
It’s not like frustration at that outcome is a secret, Will. People express their disappointment about it all the time. Many realise it ain’t working for them, and leave.
New bright-eyed enthusiasts take their place of course, and HP’s No-cost Product Supplier base remains unaffected. But it still represents churn, which is not desirable from a business perspective.
Call me simplistic, Will, but I’d venture a guess that this frustration and disaffection, being experienced by the many, is the primary motivator behind HP’s introduction of the Apprenticeship Program. Regrettably (and this is the nub of my assertion that it is unfairly selective), available only to the few. The chosen few.
However, the good news, (depending on your point of view), is that I’ve been so surprised at people I don’t know, reading my humble input here, and saying they’d quite like it if I stayed, that I think I probably will hang around a bit longer here at the Hub.
Might catch you at another forum another time, Will? Something to look forward to...
You need a little luck. And you probably need to get your hands dirty in subject areas that don't especially appeal.
The first page that gets a few hundred views a day or makes you fifty or a hundred dollars a month will change your view of things.
You certainly need to stop seeing Google as some kind of enemy or miserly parent or capricious Goddess. It's a collection of algorithms. It is something to be used (and it doesn't mind being used well).
I want writeronline to stay. It is not often we see someone post exactly what they mean in such a clear and entertaining fashion on the forums.
I also want Randy to stay, but did not see the post where he talked about leaving?
I think the forums have become bland and frankly, uninteresting.
Each thread seems loaded with posts where it is obvious the poster has not read the entire thread and is repeating aspects already discussed earlier.
All very boring, reading the same thing over and over.
Then along comes an entertainer, and I am entertained along with the masses, and the forums are interesting again.
Sadly, most of the real characters have left, don't chase them all away.
Think of the newbies, Izzy. Do they really need all the discouragement that gets offered up day after day?
As for boring...
There are certain things that newbies need to hear. I listened when I got here and did fine.
In return, I don't mind trotting out the same old stuff at routine intervals.
And I don't mind making life unpleasant for the hub haters. For exactly the same reason- the newbies deserve a chance.
Oh I quite agree with you there Will, and just want to make it clear that I have no problem with newbies asking the same old questions time and time again. No, that is not what I was referring to.
It seems these days when there is a thread on something that affects us all, we get several posts from people who have not read the thread, repeating what was discussed earlier in the same thread, then we get replies to them that knocks the whole discussion off-course.
I just wish people would read the whole thread on a topic they want to say something in.
It's almost as if some people just want to say anything at all to get their name noticed, or because they couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread, and this is what is boring and repetitive.
It is happening a lot these days, making the forums boring.
Me too. I wish they'd never introduced the Threaded version of the forums (which I think is the default), because it encourages people not to read through to the last post.
I've lost count of the times I've posted in the thread about That Copying Site, telling people don't Tweet about it, don't Facebook it, don't write a Hub about it, you're just giving the b@$!@rds free publicity - and giving them the correct places to submit their complaints. What happens? Two or three posts later, some other idiot has been too lazy to read the thread, has wasted HubPages admin time by reporting it to them,, or written a new Hub, or is whinging because they can't find the email for the owners or...
The stupid thing is, the site hasn't copied any of my Hubs so it's not my problem. I've decided to abandon them all to their fate.
Not all criticism or dissent is motivated by hatred. Sometimes it's motivated by just the opposite, in fact.
I'll have to agree. Constructive criticism is good. I think one problem is that the written word is so different than speaking face to face, as it lacks inflection, facial expression, tone, etc. As a result, written words are often misinterpreted as to their purpose.
But hey, what a success story for the apprenticeship program. A staff picked Elite is also staff picked to be one of the first of only 30 hubbers to be in the new program, is mentored by the staff for week and told what the staff wanted to see in a hub. Then is picked by staff for a weekly contest win and later picked by staff for the grand prize. Something seems a bit funny there, I just can't put my finger on it.........!
Coincidentally, the apprentice program is started on the very day of the new program. What great PR to have one of the first in the program hand picked to win the grand prize and show what an apprentice can do with just a week of mentoring. Favoritism? Nah, just a boatload of mere coincidences.
But I'm merely speculating as I've not been able to find out who the judges for the contest or the mentoring program are. Conspiracy theory? Sure, but even if it isn't true what are the odds?
You too, Cardelean! And congrats on your surprising win! It couldn't have come out any better if it was drawn up that way!
Randy, It appears that you have a strong opinion that the contest was rigged. At least that is the impression I've gotten from reading all of your comments on this thread.
I'm sorry that your entries into the contest did not nab that golden egg for you. Perhaps another contest you will be more successful. In the meantime, your green skin (snake) is showing with envy and I think you've got a bad case of the sour grapes.
Hope you feel better soon. Back in the days of childhood, which your immature behavior is leaning towards, we'd call that being a poor sport...a sore loser...etc.
I hope you have a pleasant Easter Sunday and peaceful week.--Denise H
Sorry you have this opinion of me, Denise. I only entered one article which I had been working on anyway and just happened to find a question I could enter it under. I had no hopes of an article about slavery competing with a homemade play doh entry.
I'm sure it's merely a massively coincidental occurrence which just happened out of the blue. I had no hopes at all of winning anything in the contest. But there were plenty of others who worked hard on it and didn't have the benefit of being told by the judges what they wanted to see. Perhaps you know who the judges and AP mentors are?
Randy, your constant and repetitive complaints are tiresome and exhausting. I'm not surprised that you only entered one hub in the contest yet you are waving a banner that reads, "UNFAIR!" You cannot possibly think that Cardelean was any less 'hard at work' writing this hub, filming the video, mixing the ingredients for the dough and putting it all together than any of these other hubbers who were writing (myself included).
You are sadly mistaken. This is on top of taking care of a household, two preschoolers and working full time--have you read any of cardeleans other hubs? If you did you would see that her quality of writing not only merits the win, but it stood by itself far longer than the apprenticeship program existed.
You are hardly giving credit where credit is due, but I guess that would be too much to expect for you to do. In the meantime, I'm sure you will find it more beneficial and productive to continue to belly ache.
As my late husband would say when the whining would start: "want a little cheese to go along with that?"
Do you really think I didn't expect some one like you to say exactly what you said, Denise? Perhaps you believe I simply dash off my posts on these forums without a second thought of the repercussions they may produce? If so, you are sadly mistaken. Even if I had no entries at all in the contest I would say the same. This is not about Cardelean or her abilities. She's a fine writer and I say no different.
I'm sure she works hard, as you say, and I have no problem with her other than the name of the title she sports. And I'm really making no accusations as to any wrongdoing in this case because I don't know if the AP mentors are the same as the judges.
I can't find out who makes up either group and strangely enough, no one out of the entire group of chosen AP's who have posted on this thread have mentioned any of them by name.
But let me ask you one question and get your response. Do you think it would be unfair for an entrant in a contest to be mentored as to what was wanted, by one of the judges in the contest?
Isn't it great we all have those family sayings to put into these forum posts. My late grandpa used to say : "Whar thar's smoke, thar's far"!
That would certainly be unfair, and should not be allowed. It doesn't matter whether the people concerned are genuine honest people. It's simply not acceptable as an appropriate way for any organization to run a competition. Either the mentor would have to withdraw as a judge or the competitor would have to withdraw from the contest. End of story.
However we don't know whether that occurred in this situation. You've expressed your concerns, Randy, and I think you've made them perfectly clear. Let other people make their own decisions - to keep harping on about it doesn't help, and in fact quite the opposite.
I"m not "harping" Marisa. I'm merely defending myself against accusations by Denise. If you think it is unfair of me to ask her a question in return, I will withdraw it.
It's always a temptation to have the last word, I know. But sometimes you just have to be big enough to realize when you're being baited, and walk away.
I applied a few days ago, hoping to hear something back in the positive realm of things. It looks like a great opportunity to grow in many different directions.
by Jack4 years ago
What's the apprenticeship program like?I've just applied for it, and am now waiting for the approval process that apparently takes 4-6 weeks.
by John MacNab4 years ago
I received this email today. Can anyone tell me if it is genuine, or a scam?If you have trouble viewing or submitting this form, you can fill it out online: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dilAfy …...
by Grace Marguerite Williams4 years ago
To those who graduated from the Apprenticeship Program, how did the program help you meet your writing goals and made you a better writer? Also, how is the Apprenticeship Program instrumental regarding your future...
by Person of Interest5 years ago
Yep, the latest blog post ratted you out. http://blog.hubpages.com/2012/07/apprentice-badges/Just kidding, congrats to all who are accepted. I intend to apply in maybe another month or two; fate willing and the river...
by Live To Write5 years ago
What is up with the apprenticeship program. Can anyone who has done it express their views on it, please?
by Will Apse5 years ago
So was it worth it? Are the pages produced by the 'graduates' better than the usual stuff on this site?Here they all are:cardeleanclmamacclitgirlDoc SonicK9keystrokesmissoliveDaisy...
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