Why do Christians have a problem with Homosexuals?

1. 0

   Over The Hillposted 13 years ago

   Way to go Pam.

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      Elpasoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The way for Pam to go was to the GAY PRIDE PARADE here in New York.
      People should always worship who ever they want to. But first"to thine own self be true."

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2. 81

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Just Google Frank Turek 
   An unbiased credible source for sure!

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      spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is a genetic fallacy Define Genetic Fallecy: if an argument or arguer has some particular origin, the argument must be right (or wrong). The idea is that things from that origin, or that social class, have virtue or lack virtue. (if Hitler said 2+2=4 it's wrong because Hitler said it illogical) Therefore, the actual details of the argument can be overlooked, since correctness can be decided without any need to listen or think.
      
      Nice Try, now try a logical statment eh earnest.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Like I said, Just Google.

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, it's more of an ad hominem argument.
         
         Some of those are not logical, like your Hitler example (clearly a person's politics, education level, or social class have no bearing on the correctness of 2+2=4).
         
         Some ad hominem arguments, however, are logical, like this example:
         
         Bob is a bean farmer. Bob says it's good to eat beans.
         
         It may indeed be good to eat beans, but Bob, a bean farmer, has a vested interest in lots of people eating beans, so his assertion is suspect; it could be based on self-interest rather than actual knowledge about the benefits of bean-eating. Before we accept that bean-eating is good, we'd have to confirm Bob's assertion by asking a disinterested party, preferably one with training as a doctor or a nutritionist, what they think about the value of eating beans.
         
         Frank Turek clearly has an anti-gay agenda, so anything he has to say about gay people and gayness in general needs to be examined more closely than something said by someone without this track record of bias.
         
         Funny how actual logic works, innit?

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            spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            No he didn't attack the man, but me using him as a source the genetic fallacy works far better. Interesting but when homosexuals and homosexual advocates  put out "research" it's swallowed hook line and sinker by those its proponents. Even after it’s been debunked by secular scientists. NARTH. Com. Nice wordplay "anti-gay" How about pro traditional marriage. That works better with a negative connotations. How has you week been?

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               Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "How about pro traditional marriage. That works better with a negative connotations."
               
               Yeah, 'pro-traditional marriage' would look very different to me. It would include efforts to help married couples stay together through difficult times, or perhaps efforts to keep people from rushing into ill-advised marriages without careful consideration.
               
               It would have nothing to do with trying to prevent anything, except perhaps divorce.
               
               Frank's trying to stop gay marriage from becoming legal, not trying to sustain traditional marriages. Well, maybe he's also working to sustain traditional marriages, but he's definitely working against gay marriage, so, anti-gay marriage fits.
               
               Week's been grand, thanks. Did you have a good vacation?

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                  spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah! See Jeff you have not read his books or seen him give a seminar of visited is website I have. He speaks out against divorce and encourages pastors to do sermons against divorce AND offer marriage counseling. He reveals the devastating effects divorce has on children and believe we should make divorces harder to attain. So you're wrong on that remark Jeff. My vacay was enjoyable to say the very least. I’m not done, I have more lounge time planned for later. Yea
                  
                  
                  http://www.allaboutlifechallenges.org/p … ce-faq.htm
                  
                  I'm done for now, goodnight.

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                     Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay, so Frank is both pro-traditional marriage and anti-gay marriage.
                     
                     The pro-marriage part I support. It's great to help folks who are married solve their problems before they become irreconcilable. I'd even support an effort to encourage younger people to delay marriage until (at least) age 18, and to be engaged for a year first. That might prevent a lot of ill-considered matches.
                     
                     I don't see why there's also this desperate need to prevent a statistically tiny set of informed consenting adults  from getting married, though.

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3. 81

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Time to show gods luv for the children.
   
      From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
   
   Luvly!
   What a pathetic little psycho this god thing is!

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      spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      moving the goalpost eh stardust
      
      "First, the King James Version has done us a disservice by translated the term as “children.” The Hebrew word can refer to “children,” but rather more specifically means "young men." The NIV, quoted here, uses the word “youths.” Second, the fact that the bears mauled 42 of the youths indicates that there were more than 42 youths involved. This was not a small group of children making fun of a bald man. Rather, it was a large demonstration of young men who assembled for the purpose of mocking a prophet of God. Third, the mocking of “go on up you baldhead,” is more than making fun of baldness. The baldness of Elisha referred to here may be: 1) natural loss of hair; 2) a shaved head denoting his separation to the prophetic office; or more likely, 3) an epithet of scorn and contempt, Elijah not being literally bald. The phrase “go up” likely was a reference to Elijah, Elisha’s mentor, being taken up to Heaven earlier in 2 Kings chapter 2:11-12. These youths were sarcastically taunting and insulting the Lord’s prophet by telling him to repeat Elijah’s translation.
      
      In summary, 2 Kings 2:23-24 is not an account of God mauling young children for making fun of a bald man. Rather, it is a record of an insulting demonstration against God’s prophet by a large group of young men. Because these young people of about 20 years of age or older (the same term is used of Solomon in 1 Kings 3:7) so despised the prophet of the Lord, Elisha called upon the Lord to deal with the rebels as He saw fit. The Lord’s punishment was the mauling of 42 of them by two female bears. The penalty was clearly justified, for to ridicule Elisha was to ridicule the Lord Himself. The seriousness of the crime was indicated by the seriousness of the punishment. The appalling judgment was God’s warning to all who would scorn the prophets of the Lord."
      
      Gotquestions.org
      
      Keep trying stardust

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Wait...
         
         First, the punishment is justified by saying that is was adults, not kids:
         "2 Kings 2:23-24 is not an account of God mauling young children for making fun of a bald man. Rather, it is a record of an insulting demonstration against God’s prophet by a large group of young men."
         
         and then the argument is, hey, it's okay to maul anyone (age notwithstanding) to death if they dis a prophet:
         "The appalling judgment was God’s warning to all who would scorn the prophets of the Lord."
         
         Me, I take this story to be allegorical rather than literal.

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4. 81

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Well it is great to learn that some versions of your sick little tome allows young men to be killed by your god rather than children. How much better that makes me feel!
   Funny thing that a god has to kill people who mock him, I just smile and walk by myself. I guess your god is too neurotic to do that!

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5. 81

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Frank is a well known nut case!

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6. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Why do Christians have a problem with Homosexuals?
   
      This a good question and yet Not.
   
      Could have as easily asked;...
      Why are there still problems in the world?
      
      
   Why do Christians have a problem with Homosexuals?
   
     Christians are no different in this regard or any other for that matter, than is in the rest of the world.
   
     Every accusation that is laid at the door of the Church can be placed most anywhere. 
     All of the failures of society can be found within the Church as it can in any other group of people. 
      
     Focus upon any group, find a fault, gather a group that thinks the way you do, and the Pack mentality is born.
   It becomes a feeding frenzy.
   
     And before ya know it ...  YOU have become just like the thing that you are fighting against.
     This also applies to believers.
   
     Homosexuals have as much of a right to like and dislike whatever they want to, as you and I also have.
   
     And "everyone" has those equal rights.
   You can not MAKE me like you, and I can not MAKE you like me.
   
     WE can pass as many laws as we want to, reality doesn't change.
   We can pass a law that says that everyone will agree that I am tall, dark , and handsome, but I still won't be able to dunk a basket ball.
   
     We can "Call" black... white; or yellow ...blue, and the thing will not have changed.
   
     If a Christian believes another person is going to hell, He/she can believe that! But He/she can not change that person; only God can.
     But we are not supposed to make that judgment! Not our job.
   
     I think that when Jesus said for his disciples to go out into the world and teach; he was telling us to nurture those that already had a little faith, that our and their faith become stronger.
    
     Jesus was not telling them to go out and beat their heads against the wall of unbelief.
   
     He did not tell them to plant their seeds upon the mountain top, among rocks.
     But to plant their seed in fertile soil, that they grow and flourish. This sweet scent of the flowers will attract the nonbelievers.
   
   He wants them to be enticed not driven into the fold.
   This is how Christianity grew in the first century.
   
   I think that this method would work best still today.
   
     OK that was my rent for the day.
   Got other stuff to do.  Be in and out through the day.

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7. 94

   Susana Sposted 13 years ago

   It's about YOU taking personal responsibility to be the best person you can be. At the moment I can't see that you're anywhere near and yet you want to tell people how to live their lives. Your truth is not everyone's truth and it's wise to remember that.

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      spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A relative truth claim that you best agrument. You have only two cgoices either everyone is wrong or there is only 1 truth.
      
      Jesus said "I am THE way THE truth and THE life" He is the ONLY TRUTH. Denial of this does help you.
      
      PS There is reason why Christian rehab does far better than ANY other. "The main philosophy of rehab center for Christians is to approach the addict in a holistic way. If the addiction is seen only as physical one that requires no more than medical attention, then the treatment suggested would not be successful. An addict unfortunately, falls prey to the drug both in mind and body. While medication is used to treat the body, a person’s faith in Christ is encouraged to treat the mind.
      Better results – There is no denying the fact that Christian rehab centers offer a much better success rate as opposed to traditional rehabs. Finding peace and comfort in the bible helps patients recover faster and respond better to their medication and environmental treatments.
      Less chances of relapse – It is a known fact that many a times addicts go right back to their addiction once out of the rehab center. Rehab centers for Christians aim at strengthening the morale and self control of a patient and thus preventing temptation from taking over easily.
      Renewed relationship with God – A rehab center for Christians helps addicts in renewing their relationship with God. Loss of faith and confidence is mostly the main reason why a person falls into the trap of various addictions. With a renewed faith in the Ultimate Power, the addicts are able to battle not only their addictions but also face other problems in life with their chin up.
      
      A Christian rehabilitation center uses all the methods of treatment that a modern rehab center does. Right from testing, detox, medical intervention, counseling, group therapy to family discussions, these centers offer them all. Over and above all these methods, a Christian rehab also inculcates a faith in Christ and this is the integral glue that holds their entire program together and makes it amazingly successful."
      
      
      transformationstreatment.com

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         Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         WTF??????

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "A relative truth claim that you best agrument. You have only two cgoices either everyone is wrong or there is only 1 truth."
         Even if we stipulate that premise, it does not logically follow that we know (or can deduce) what the Truth is. Maybe you have it right. Maybe Buddha does. We don't really know. We only believe.
         
         "Jesus said "I am THE way THE truth and THE life" He is the ONLY TRUTH."
         According to your belief, yes. But that doesn't mean that you're right about this being the only Truth. You believe it. You don't know it.
         
         "There is reason why Christian rehab does far better than ANY other. "
         You got any data to back that up? Data, not PR.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's funny, whenever I hear people say such things, I run for the hills.

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8. 64

   Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

   I don't see many evangelists trying to change adulterers, alcoholics, etc. with the same zeal with which they 'help' homosexuals.

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thus prioritizing the rectum over the liver.  How is that just?

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      spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well that is true, I don't speak on homosexuality a lot, but there is a big difference between homosexuality and the ones you mentioned, no one trying to make adultery legal, or promote as a good thing no one trying to legalize theft or lying or drunk driving. Laws discriminate; but it is discrimination against behavior, not persons, and it is discrimination with cause not without.

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         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "no one trying to make adultery legal, or promote as a good thing no one trying to legalize theft or lying or drunk driving." Because all of those crimes have victims. Well, except sometimes for lying, but certain kinds of lying (fraud, false advertising, libel, slander, perjury) dos have victims, and those lies are illegal, and rightly so. It's still perfectly legal to tell someone they don't look fat in that pair of jeans when they do.
         
         Homosexuality, as long as any acts are between consenting adults, has no victim. That's why it makes no sense to criminalize it.
         
         "Laws discriminate; but it is discrimination against behavior, not persons, and it is discrimination with cause not without."
         Good laws discriminate with cause. Bad laws are, well, bad laws, and should be repealed.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Dear me. Is adultery or alcoholism illegal?
         
         Accept responsibility for your actions spider. You do not have any authority. And no - I would never in a million years tell a random alcoholic that they have a problem. I might report him to the police if I saw him attempting to drive a car while drunk.
         
         How very disingenuous of you to even bring that into the discussion and - some hope - I doubt your motives are a spure as you are claiming.
         
         You have no authority over anyone. None. Sorry - I can see that makes you very, very angry. I think I would be angry if I tried to believe the nonsense you claim to believe.
         
         No wonder you cause so much ill will and hatred.

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9. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Jerami wrote:
      
     No one can "FIX THEMSELVES" without outside sourses.
   
   MK ...   Sorry - you are wrong. This is one of the reasons I find your religion so evil. You do have the power and tools to fix yourself but your religion teaches you that you need outside salvation. Utter nonsense. Sorry. Admittedly - sometimes that means asking some one for help. But - when I want help I tend to ask for it. 
   
   Jerami   I never said "outside salvation"... I was talking about us believers helping each other and I Think you knew that.
   ============================================================
   
   Jerami wrote:
   
     I think that evangelizing was intended for believers to inflict upon fellow believers for the purpose of fixing ourselves.
   
   MK   ..If the evangelizing was limited to believers - I could accept that. Knocking on doors is not.
   
   
   Jerami I think that is what I said. But why throw a rock at me cause somebody did something?
   ==========================================================
   
   Jerami wrote:
   
     Ya caint pick flees off of your own back.
     Believers should help each other fix themselves.
   
     The internet would be a great platform to do this in.
   ---
   
   MK ...Some times it is appropriate to ask for help. If it is asked for - that is another matter.
   ===
   Jerami... It appears that we agree.
   ======================================================
   
     Jerami wrote:
   
     You are correct in saying that we need to quit preaching to non believers. You don't like it. We are wasting our time that would be better spent "Fixing" ourselves.  If we could do that as Jesus taught, We would be an example that more people would want to follow.
   ===
   
   MK ...Yes. I have said many times that I have never met a real Christian. Just the sales team.
   ====
   Jerami ... That to  is  sad .
   
   ================================
   MK  said ..   But - your beliefs are offensive. Your book has a list of things that I should not do that most so-called believers do not follow. And you believe there is an invisible super being in the sky who will punish me for not believing.
   ==================================================
   
      I say that I believe in a life after death , and a creator.
   For this you hang a lot of beliefs on me that you presume that I hold dear.
       Can anyone, I mean  ANY ONE  write down their beliefs that someone doesn't find offensive?
       Everyone on the face of the earth finds something offensive.
   
       You or I do not have any more of a right to express our distaste for the behavior of others that those others have for expressing theirs about us.
      IF You or I do not "live and let live" any better or worse than anyone else; we have become just as bad as the thing that we hate about others.
   
      I'll be in and out all day

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      Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What beliefs do I hold that you find offensive?
      
      Sorry - my mistake. I though t you  believed in the god of the bible who will punish me for not believing in it and were a big fan of not interpreting the word.
      
      Please explain what you do believe if I got that wrong.
      
      Or are you just defending the faith?
      
      But no - what you said was, "No one can "FIX THEMSELVES" without outside sourses."
      
      I find this to be untrue. If you are applying that to beleivers only. Do you genuinley foind yourself unable to discern the right path? Are you really incapable and need some one else to correct you?
      
      If so - that is sad.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Jerami……   It seems that you are having difficulty understand what I had written above.
         
           Did "I" say that "I" was offended by anything that "YOU" said?
         or are you interpreting what I actualy said?  ,,, again ?
         =======================================================
         MK said    But no - what you said was, "No one can "FIX THEMSELVES" without outside sourses."
         ===
           And we were talking about wrong mind sets. If your mind set is damaged you need outside influence to correct your thought processes. Sorry... If your thinking is screwed up? It cain't fix itself.
         =========================================================
          
            Sorry - my mistake. I though t you  believed in the god of the bible who will punish me for not believing in it
         
         ====
                  I accept your apology!!  Try to not let that happen again please.
                Jesus would say ..Your sins are forgiven   go and sin no more

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            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So - you are just looking for a fight than? OK- normal for a religionist.
            
            You said:
            
            
            That aint meen me an u right? LOLOLOLOLOLOL That is all me making an assumption?
            
            So - What belief of mine do you find offensive? Don't bother answering of u r wanting to stick your ridiculous beliefs to me.
            =======================================================
            
            
            No - we were not talking about wrong mindsets - you are just looking to fight wot be the Kristian way.
            =========================================================
             
            
            Yes - he sounds like a condescending A-hole - that is for sure. We agree on that.

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You might not have been talking about the mind set if Christians ,..I thought you were.
               
                 I'm not wanting to "Pick" a fight. I was just standing there answering your questions.  "If that was uncalled for "  ????
               Let me know... I won't do that again.  I apologize

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    Hubbin4V12posted 13 years ago

    perhaps the good old fashion reason, they just don't understand. And what people don't understand they do not agree to nor condone. Plus, this religion is infamous for casting judgment and frowning upon others, so who knows, maybe the guilt system makes some feel better about themselves.

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11. 64

    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    As a Christian whose ancestors were murdered because of their faith by others who had different beliefs, I reject any government edict or societal pressure designed to change my thoughts or behavior  to a collective interpretation of what is right or wrong (so long as my behavior does not prevent others from living their own lives in peace).
    
    As far as ‘converting’ anyone to my beliefs, I would seek to do so by setting an example by living my life according to the requirements of my religion.  If anyone was to ask me what I believe in or why, I would most happily tell them.  Thankfully nothing in our free western society prevents those who want to learn more about a given faith from finding any information they want easily.

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12. 0

    Deborah Sextonposted 13 years ago

    aguasilver
    In ref. to your entire post
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/37614?p … ost1074636
    1 Corinthians 7:14-16 (King James Version)
    
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy……………………………………………
    
    _________________________________________________
    I beg to differ with your interpretations

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13. 58

    zzronposted 13 years ago

    This is the answer to your question, sorry I don't make the news I just report it.
    
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).
    
    Christians are trying to share the word of God "The Bible" and yes God gives us a choice. Do you believe in Heaven and Hell ? Whether you do or not, forever is a very long time my friend.

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       getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       So if you are an Infidel who doesn't believe in Allah and the prophet Muhammad, you will be spending eternity in hell--heterosexual or homosexual...doesn't matter.

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       Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ________________________________________________________
       
       Yes well, that was the false Apostle Paul saying that.
       
       Then he turns around and says all things are lawful
       
       The Christians are back and forth as was Paul.
       
       "Get saved and you have immunity forever"
       
       Then they say the gay people are going to hell.
       
       Then they say their sins were forgiven so they can continue in them.
       
       1 Corinthians. 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
       
       Paul was crazy and wishy washy too.
       
       When it is you guys, it is OK no matter what.

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What choice does god give?
       
       If someone holds a gun to your head demanding your wallet, do you have a choice to keep it? Would you keep it? Is that really a choice?

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          zzronposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Your question was, What choice does God give ?  The answer to that is that God gives us free will to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior or to reject him.  That we can choose heaven or hell.  God is not holding a gun to your head demanding your wallet.  To answer your question about the gun being held to your head, of coarse you have a choice to hand over the wallet or not to. People make the wrong choices all the time.  Who's to say that knocking the gun out of their hand and fighting back is the wrong choice?  Maybe it is maybe it isn't.

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    4. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       _______________________________
       No they're not. They are trying to make the world bow down to the way they interpret the scriptures. And their doctrine is full of holes
       
       The Christian beliefs are an abomination if anyone is.

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       Elpasoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "It seems that the translators gave in to the temptation to widen Paul's condemnation to include lesbians as well as gay male." The word homosexual was not even a part of the Greek language!
       
       I wonder how many Christian know about the Lies people put in the Bible, yet, some Christians repeat these lies for personal reasons that have nothing to do with God or the salvation of anybody. That verse from  Corinthians was intentionally distorted to include homosexuals.

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14. 73

    Jeff Berndtposted 13 years ago

    Y'know, I just realized something. If Christians (or even just some of them) want to 'Have a Problem' with homosexuals, that's okay. Plenty of religions speak against people for doing things they don't like.
    
    The only problem comes when they want to put the condemnation into actual action here on Earth, thus infringing on the rights of those who do not follow the Christian faith, or, hey, even ones who do follow the faith, but 'sin' anyway.
    
    Nobody gets mad when the Fundies preach about the evils of liquor, but I bet we'd sure get upset if they tried to ban it (again). I actually want to lift the no buying booze before noon on Sunday law, on the same grounds.

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15. 0

    Over The Hillposted 13 years ago

    We desperately need another world wide flood.Oh I forgot. You guys don,t believe that happened either,do you?

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       Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That is because it didn't - sorry. You must be very, very angry to wish death on most of the human race. Perhaps if you prey hard enough for god to kill all the homosexuals? IDK - maybe you are just not preying hard enuf?
       
       Can I get a LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO?
       
       Dear me.

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16. 0

    Over The Hillposted 13 years ago

    It,s just such a sad world Mark. Maybe we all should be eliminated.No,I,m not angry.Just dissapointed in mankind.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       So am I. But - why not try to change it instead of wishing us all destroyed? We will manage that soon enough if we do not change.

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17. 71

    getitriteposted 13 years ago

    

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       James A Watkinsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       There is to be no eternal torture. I see you mock Jesus Christ. Is this the mark of superior intelligence?

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          Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It's the mark of a sense of humor you find offensive. Nothing else.

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          getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          Yeah I mocked Jesus Christ.  So what?!  Just because some people have Christ psychosis is no reason not to mock silly concepts.
          
          It has nothing to do with intelligence.  Christ psychosis can strike anyone.  Like cancer, it is a disease.  And taken to its extreme, it can destroy mankind.
          
          Belief in things that are imaginary is a sign of serious psychosis, no matter how many people are convinced that the imaginary entities exist.
          
          It's like if I were to believe in the men below:
          
          
          These beliefs are silly, and you know it.  And if you were intellectually honest you would admit it.

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             Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             And now you deny the existence of Malcolm Dixon and Rusty Goffe.
             
             Is there no end to your depravity?
             
             And speaking as an intellectually honest Christian, I get that there is no evidence* supporting my belief. I'm okay with that. I'd never try to force anyone to believe (or act as though they believe) what I believe. And since you haven't tried to make Christianity illegal, I imagine we'll get on just fine.
             
             
             *The Bible isn't evidence, and using it as such is circular logic. Scripture is not proof; belief is not knowledge.

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                spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                No where does the bible does it say "Have blind faith". The bible  states "let us reason", "test all things hold on to what is good", "Love the Lord your God with all you heart and MIND."
                "These things have I written unto you that believe on the  name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." John is convinced that the people he is writing to have believed. However, he is still writing so that they may KNOW that they have eternal life."
                
                The bible is the word of God PLUS there are numerous extra biblical sources that can help you.
                
                
                http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_extrabib.html

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    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    $20 says Mark will be asking to be baptised by the time I hit $100 in Adsense revenue... 

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       Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I have been baptized. You do not want to see the photos............

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          you know you are not REALLY baptised unless done so in the Greek Orthodox tradition?
          
          Everything else is just a bubble bath

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       mythbusterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Have you hit $100 yet - is Mark baptized yet?
       
       

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I'm only $99 away!

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    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    I have been pro-lesbian all my life

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       as opposed to an amatuer lesbian?

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          that's right..
          
          you get what you pay for

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    joer4x4posted 13 years ago

    It's not just Christians, even nature has a problem with it. Homosexuals depend on heterosexuals to just to have life and be homosexual and to have children (in their marriages).
    
    If homosexuals had their way the human race would be extinct. Thus they work very hard at defeating their own purpose.
    
    If it were right, homosexuals would be able to have kids through birth.

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Wow!
       
       That is really, really........

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          livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I love how some people imagine that it's a battle of heterosexuality vs homosexuality, with one side trying to "defeat" the other side. You can't accept that homosexuality is normal, because 100% of humanity will suddenly go gay and we'll go extinct.

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       Anita_Lumleyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What if homosexuality actually prevented extinction? Or, helped stabilize populations by couples taking in orphaned young? Or, by procuring resources for survival?
       
       Check out the article:
       
       http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … nimal.html

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          A great resource, thanks.

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    joer4x4posted 13 years ago

    Incorrect - I have no problem with my friends who are gay.
    
    However, I do prefer reality over fantasy. Any one who thinks homosexuality contributes to the human race or society is foolish. It's purely self gratification.

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       livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The only thing you can do as a human being to contribute to  humanity is to give birth to a child?!
       
       I wasn't aware that the human race was suffering from a massive fertility problem.

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       Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "It's purely self gratification."
       
       No, 'masturbation' is purely self gratification. Straight people also do that.
       
       Get a freaking dictionary.

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          masterbation is NOT pure self gratification!
          
          When I engage in such an activity, it enables my wife to get some sleep, and thus is beneficial to both of us

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             Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Good point.  It also keeps workers at the kleenex factories gainfully employed.
             
             It's the ultimate win-win scenario

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                Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                You pack of wiseacres.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    I guess I let down the side. I am a straight female and I never had children. I guess I never contributed anything to the human race.

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    joer4x4posted 13 years ago

    The arguments are not holding up because you are generalizing.
    Let's be very clear. The act of homosexuality in a relationship contributes nothing!
    
    Being single or having no children in heterosexual relationship is not homosexuality.
    
    Be clear - it's important!

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       Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And what exactly does,
       smoking
       driving a fast car
       eating caviar
       scuba diving
       watching TV
       fishing the Tuna into extinction
       driving to work instead of walking
       
       And  zillion other things, "contribute to the human race or society"?
       
       Are we banning self gratification now? Seeing as being gratified does not help people be in a position contribute to society? They are much happier denying themselves. See - Catholic priests - no problem there.
       
       What a lame argument. How scared of homosexuals are you? LOL

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          joer4x4posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I can't think of one logical reason to be scared so I am not. I may not condone homosexuality but I certainly would not outlaw it based on your moral right to be who you want to be. There are issues that society should get over with it but it must be done by those experienced in homosexuality who can educate others. 
          
          Those things you listed have nothing to do with homosexuality but those activities do employ many people.
          
          If one chooses to be gay that is their right. I don't have a problem with that.
          
          What does bother me is that gays want the government to endorse and back them. Why? Government has no business in our personal lives. When government gets involves is cost everyone. Or could it be the gay movement wants it all and wants to punish those who disagree just like so many other issues (not all, I refer to those who are emotionally charged and want to blame other for their own woes) .
          
          Your comment is based obviously on emotion which has been stirred by my comment. An emotional response is usually generated out of fear, anger, or other emotion. Emotional arguments hold no water because the crux of the matter is never addressed and clarity  is lost.
          
          Gratification is the result of an action. One can be homosexual and not be gratified. The same is true for heterosexuality. Homosexuality is not an emotion, gratification is. Nor is gratification homosexuality.
          
          Many issues become a battle because they've become emotionally charged thus letting reason and conscience effort go to waste.
          
          As I said before clarity is important and very little of this thread is clear.

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             livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I can't say I understand your point about "gratification." Homosexuality is not something people engage in "for kicks." Gay people are just gay. As inconceivable as it may seem to you, people who are gay are just born that way. Plenty of scientific study has affirmed this. It is not a choice no matter how much you want to believe that's the case.
             
             Your point about government involvement in people's lives is a good one, but you're wrong on one point. The government DID get involved, at homophobes' behest, in the mid-1990s to pass DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act), to outlaw gay marriages at the federal level. Where a law was open before, a new restriction of gay people's freedom came into being. The government incurred costs in having it passed, and it misses out in potential revenues it could earn when gay people get married.

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       Anita_Lumleyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "The act of homosexuality in a relationship contributes nothing!"
       
       hmmm. I must disagree. If the act of homosexuality, which is the attraction to and sexual relations with persons of the same gender, in a relationship is an expression of love and affection, then how could homosexuality contribute nothing? Without homosexuality in a relationship, or at least a homosexual relationship, then there wouldn't even be a relationship.

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          joer4x4posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          NO - you're not being clear and you misquoted me. I said "Any one who thinks homosexuality contributes to the human race or society is foolish.
          
          Again let's be clear - While two people may be happy in a relationship, two people are not  "the human race" or "society". There is a difference on both counts.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    So, what is the difference between a man and a woman in a relationship and two men or two women in a relationship if no children are involved? It is still love.

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       Anita_Lumleyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Agreed!

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          and agreed!

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             mythbusterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Ditto

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    Couples don't always have children because they can't, sometimes they don't want to. Some people go into marriages deciding they will not have children. Allowing gay people to marry promotes stability.

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ... and some pretty good relationships! Two of our gay friends have been together now for 21 years! They have bought up and educated 2 beautiful children in that time, and they are guys.
       
       Just wanted to add, at least one of this couple attend every event in their children's lives. These are much loved children.

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          SEE!  REAL men wouldn't bother with that kinda crap!

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             earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             
             Exactly! I like to throw em out in the street once their out of nappies.

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                Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I have always been a big fan of lesbians...  i was always in favor of gay men too since most of them work out and are very good looking (and as such, I appreciated the fact that they never were competition for the ladies).
                
                
                ... but I find bi-sexual males to be greedy and indecisive

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                   earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I'm not sure why, but many gay men are pumping iron these days.
                   Maybe it's in response to gay bashers?

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                      Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      is "iron' a synonym for 'penis' in Australia?

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                         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         I hope not Greek one, or I am in heaps of trouble!

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       mythbusterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with this...
       
       Are we (or are some of us) forgetting that the institution of marriage and family is a social construction - and has meant different things at different times?
       
       Currently, we uphold the social construction of heterosexual union in a life-long institution of marriage and say that the marriage must include children in the family structure...
       
       However...that's just "currently" - for most of us

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    What research? Bible based is it?
    I lived in Prahran, the centre of Melbourne's gay community for 21 years.. the only way you would know it has many gay people are that the coffee and conversation in the cafes are both great!
    
    If you are going to stereotype gay people you should live amongst them for a while, not judge them by gay parades. Prahran is one of the best inner suburbs in our beautiful city.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    "In what world?"
    
    In the real world.

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       spiderpamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       No, you've been mislead. Check the facts yourself.

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28. 81

    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Yes god is all about love!
    
      If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
    Better make sure you have the right god though eh?
    What are the chances of your particular version of the sky fairy story being "The true word of god" again?
    
    wottalottarot!

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Mammals, I blame the mammals!

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       Anita_Lumleyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       lol

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30. 79

    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    This hub give a good description of someone who grew up with two gay parents.
    
    http://hubpages.com/hub/If-A-Child-Is-R … nts-Online

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       eagle77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       it's not the gay people that Jesus doesn't like it's the lifestyle that they live, that is what Jesus speaks about in the bible. Jesus loves them just the same as you me and every other human being... But the way Homomsexual people choose to live against the way God commanded in the bible is what He disapproves of... there are many christian people who once lived a gay/homosexual life; if you don't understand the reality of a life change in Jesus then don't judge what have never experienced... because comments are just ignorance calculated with opinions.... it's experience that is relevant!

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          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Dear me.
          
          You are saying "don't judge"?
          
          The person who signed up here just to tell homosexuals that they are going against the way God commanded?
          
          Sad how much ill will you create in the name of jeebus.
          
          But hardly surprising many people have had enough of your hate-mongering religion.
          
          It is really thanks to people like you - well done. I am certain jeebus will be very proud of you.

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Your psychotic tome does not agree with Jesus apparently.
          Is this the source of the homophobia on here?
          
            "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
          
          Of course when god became his own son and killed himself that made it all better didn't it?
          Wottacrock!

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you UW, a great case in point!

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31. 59

    eagle77posted 13 years ago

    see there you go judging someone you don't even know!! who's to say I wasn't gay and now i am a christian.... Jesus loves all of us no matter what we do or think or say!!! it's being able to accept that LOVE without trying to figure it out and understand why God LOVES you... I dont have to give you a bible crash course...what for that's not what its about... its about accepting Jesus LOVE and accepting that He died for you...don't work it out just accept it... it's not that hard...

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I didn't judge you, you made it clear to me that you are a believer.
       It is very silly. Circular logic. god wrote the bible so I know it's true, so god is true. Totally illogical.
       But worse, the story itself is psychologically unsound from start to finish.
       A god who needs to be worshipped, who has not outgrown jealousy and desire, or the need to subjugate?
       Your god story is a fairytale told in a hundred ways in a thousand tomes before your tome was thought of, the same stories beginning with the sun god.
       
       Unless you rip the OT out of the bible or refuse to read it, the reason for religious homophobia is in the text that forms a part of your religion. The Quoran is no better!

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       Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "Don't work it out,just accept it."
       
       You would have fit right in with the Jim Jones group!  You probably would have given your children the Kool-aid without asking any questions at all!  Blind faith is never a good thing!

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       getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       That is a rather naive way to look at life, and sets one up to be taken advantage of, in the worse way. 
       
       THINK!

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          eagle77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          what way is that?

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             getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             
             
             Someone already mentioned this:
             
             

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                Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Since I like to play Devil's Advocate (and doesn't this just open the door for some soul-savers to come a-knockin'?) I should point out that the population of Jonesville died by drinking poisoned Flavor-Aid, not Kool-Aid.
                
                Not that the association has hurt the Kool-Aid brand at all or anything....

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                   Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Mea Culpa:  The workers I referenced actually work at "facial tissue" factories.

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                      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      

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                   getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   
                   
                   Oh! the generic brand!

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                      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Jones was not only a religious wacko, but a cheap one at that!

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32. 59

    eagle77posted 13 years ago

    i didn't realize i said don't read the bible!? religious homophobia comes from a person not being able to accept the reality of Jesus' Love...and the fear of not knowing how to accept such a selfless Love... Jesus isn't a religion either maybe getting wasted in the spiritual realm would help u understand the difference...

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It seems it is you who is judging. You obviously don't know my background in religion.
       The following of Jesus was called christianity the last time I looked, it's beliefs come out of the "good book" which is a pile of ninth rate crud bolted together from previous stories by a handful of old goat herders in Afghanistan.

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          eagle77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          i'm confused, from the last time I checked the bible Jesus spoke of HIS great LOVE... now please clarify so I don't get it wrong what religion is your background?

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             earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Did I quote from the wrong book? My religious background is unimportant, religion is religion, none of them are the same, all of them are right according to their proponents, and all are based on a book with a vicious fairy.  (who becomes his own son and kills himself in the case of the bible.) The quoran is similar, threats, fire, brimstone, the whole nine yards!
             It's a pile of snuffle that's what it is!

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                eagle77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                "AHA"....

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                   earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   AHA?

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       Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I seriously doubt you know where the bible came from!

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          Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          ...The stork brought it?

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             Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I though it was found under a cabbage leaf!  I learn something new every day!

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Religious indoctrination comes from a person not being able to accept reality. 

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          eagle77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          whose reality?

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             Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             There is only one reality and we all share it.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    

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34. 92

    akirchnerposted 13 years ago

    My biggest fear is always and has always been exactly how do we know what God REALLY thinks? I always think that it is best to leave judgement to the 'real deal' and just because we interpret and we may think we know what he really wants or what he judges as 'not okay' - I'd much rather not make the call myself because it just doesn't seem right to do.  I always remember that saying 'judge not lest ye be judged' and I think as long as someone is not infringing on my rights or trying to drag me along for the ride, it just doesn't concern me.  I believe in morality but that morality is only mine; no one should have to tell me how to live - and likewise, I should not tell others how to live. I think many problems in the world could be solved by this philosophy as everyone seems to think THEY are the chosen ones and THEY have all the answers.  When in fact, there may be many different answers to any number of questions in life.  My humble opinion.

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I thought the bible was supposed to have made that clear.

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    SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years ago

    I just happened to watch this documentary last night...it was well done and very moving...A Jihad For Love...the struggles of gay and lesbian muslims living in a few different parts of the world.
    
    http://www.ajihadforlove.com/home.html

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36. 81

    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Because they are homophobes, the directions to become one are in the good book as usual.

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37. 0

    kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

    not correct statement, how many christians are homosexual come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Weird thread, going to get my bloody needle

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well, they didn't follow the bloody directions! Come on Kimberley, get with the pace here!

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    dnd0psposted 11 years ago

    This is pointless. Everyone has a right to their opinion, true. But all men are equal, no one has a right over another, it simply doesn't matter what anyone, Christian or not regardless, thinks.
    No one has a right to impose their opinions upon others, who cares what the christians think?

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39. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 11 years ago

    Simple answer is Christians have a problem with homosexuality because Christ did
    
    Note I mentioned the practice not the person practicing the action- yea I know its a God concept ,not a human concept.
    
    http://carm.org/bible-homosexuality for a fuller definition.

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       A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Once again, the Christian cherry picks what they want to believe in the Bible, ignoring most of it and only supporting some of it.

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          Eaglekiwiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I answered the OP,which is contrary to your post.
          
          Finding an answer is cherry picking ?
          
          How?
          
          Should I have spoken about the best store to find white capri pants instead?
          
          It is you TM who is evasive  or generalises with your answers.

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             A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Simple, you cherry pick something you claim Christ was against, yet will ignore other things in the Bible.

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                Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I agree, a lot of Christians speak only about what God or Christ (relatively speaking) are against, but don't follow up with speaking that Christ helped people  in spite of their sins and transgressions. It is this speaking of only the negative that leads one to draw the conclusion that God and Christ aren't for anything good at all, which makes a pretty good case for atheism (IMHO)

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             Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Finding a specific answer to a question isn't cherry picking in itself (Which you did), But it becomes cherry picking when A person fails to also continue to let people know the other side of things, such as the bible stating let he who is without sin cast the first stone, also judging not so you will not be judged. The fact is that all sin is equal in God's eyes (If one exists, out of respect to my atheist friends here), and as such all have the chance to repent of their sins if they believe according to the bible

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             Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             I disagree. I find ATM to be very clear and concise with his answers, or at least he has been with me

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40. 73

    relacheposted 11 years ago

    Some of my best Christian friends are homosexual, and some of my best homosexual friends are Christians.  They don't seem to have a problem with themselves at all.

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    Hollie Thomasposted 11 years ago

    Personally, I think the only gays who have a problem with gays are the ones that have yet to admit to themselves that they are gay, and then let everyone else know that, too.

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    rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

    You have to love these revived religious threads from 3 years ago!  I see names that used to bring a lot of fun to the forums, all on one thread.

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