The death of George Floyd

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  1. profile image0
    PrettyPantherposted 14 months ago

    The death of George Floyd has brought anger and  heartbreak to America. Our nation is suffering, We have seen fighting and destruction but we have also seen heroic acts and acts of kindness and solidarity.

    Where will we go from here? Will we, as a nation, finally come together and admit police violence against citizens, especially black citizens, is a systemic problem that must be addressed on a national level?

    Portland, Oregon police taking a knee for George Floyd:

    https://youtu.be/8WFqP_Yb3yI

    1. Credence2 profile image80
      Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      I don't know, Panther. People's hearts need to change and the solution goes beyond just more laws and its application.

      I am sure that there are many horrendous events that take place everyday such as this for every and anyone regardless of race. It could be more common than we would like to admit. But, today it is hard to avert from the glaring gaze of ubiquitous cell phone cameras.

      It was the brazen nature of the cops involved, starkly applying excessive force on a man before an live audience, that stirs people up, such gall.

      We have a President who the Mayor of Atlanta said is better when he just stops talking, fanning the flames rather than taking leadership toward a healing process.

      These problems lie deep as part of the American psyche, and like hair dye on the skin, it has to 'wear off' not be forceably removed. I would not hazard a guess as to how long this will take, because it has been with us in various forms since the Founding of the republic.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Hi credence, I agree there must be a seismic shift in the hearts of Americans but I also hope to see changes made to force accountability.  Police must not be allowed to get away with brutality and murder. Zero tolerance, and a national database to prevent bad cops from simply getting a job in another city.

        I certainly don't have the answers but I know we can do better.

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          A relatively minor event in all that is going on, and it makes a point. Sometimes the "little things" can clarify the nature of the "big picture".

          The white lady in Central Park that was called out for not leasing her dog by a AA bird watcher. Her threat in response to his request was to call the police emphasizing that a Black man was harassing her. Although she said that she voted for Obama etc., she knew how to wield a weapon that would get the cops out of the Dunkin Donuts and prepared to "go over the top" once at the scene.

          But, recognizing that problems exist is the beginning of acknowledging need for solutions.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, I saw that and was embarrassed and ashamed that this happened.

            1. IslandBites profile image91
              IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Yet, there were people offended saying they saw nothing racist about it and that those who called racism are the real racists. roll

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Yes. Typical irrational defense mechanism employed by those who think black men are inherently scary.

          2. IslandBites profile image91
            IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            I watched this yesterday. So heavy and strong.

            https://youtu.be/v4amCfVbA_c

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Thanks for sharing. I agree with his point of view. But in spite of Martin Luther King's statement that riots is a form of communication from those that are ignored and unheard, I don't like the idea. As our enemies and adversaries use it to minimalize the event that was the cause and attempt to make some form of parity between the violence of the police and that of the protesters we lose our position of having the moral high ground.

              The pen has always been mightier than the sword, and the ballot box is not too far behind.

        2. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Same question to you. How do you change the hearts and mind of people?

      2. Ken Burgess profile image87
        Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        There was a time, no matter what race or religion a person was, they identified as American first and foremost (99% of the time) this is not the case today, a growing majority no longer identify as Americans, they belong first and foremost to whatever political ideal or race or sexual orientation they believe in. 

        In some places, like CA, you will find people waiving a foreign flag more often than a American one.

        Society is no longer united, and its structures are no longer respected. Each person has their own platform(s) to speak on (FaceBook, Twitter, YouTube) and each believes their opinion is just as valid and righteous as anyone else’s opinion. 

        From the most ignorant individual to the most brilliant intellectual… if anything it is the intellectual that will question his belief and position on a matter, while the ignorant individual will happily bludgeon (verbally or otherwise) anyone that dare question the beliefs they “champion”.

        These times are as chaotic and dangerous as the 60s but we are without great political minds of conviction and commitment, there are no intellectual political leaders than can articulate their message to inspire as the country had in the likes of Malcolm X, King and JFK.

        Gone is the civility, the clarity of messaging.

        We are left with the likes of Pelosi and Trump, their rants often seem either delusional or bereft of any real understanding of what the people are feeling, they are less than inspiring, often leaving people wondering how it is our Nation is still functioning with “leaders” that are so abhorrent to listen to most Americans would choose to be strapped in a dentist chair having their teeth worked on.

        We are left with the sycophants willing to say and do whatever is expedient or “politically correct” in order to get people to vote for them, purely for the purposes of gaining position and power.  I suppose that is the one thing Trump has going for him, he is too arrogant and full of himself to be anything other than himself.

        Both sides of the aisle are filled with imbecilic personalities that are better suited to be cleaning out cages in a Zoo than leading our nation.  Some are corrupt, some are sexual predators, some are so incomprehensibly ignorant they could not function successfully at anything else in life… and then there are a handful or rational competent persons thrown in the mix, that sooner or later will realize the futility and move on in life, leaving their position behind while the worst the country has to offer remains in DC.
        Look at the stupidity we are dealing with.

        There are 4 ex-cops that should have been arrested and charged, then the evidence and a jury could determine what their fates are.  Yet three of them are still without any charges against them at all.  Idiotic and cowardly leadership obviously runs throughout that State.

        We have Governors continuing to lock down their states, when there is no justification at all to do so. 

        40+ million people out of work and we have Governors and Federal “leaders” that act as if it is no big deal, businesses going bankrupt, people unable to pay their bills, no problem… but if you dare ignore their orders and go lay out on that beach, you can bet your behind the cops will be there to bust you for it.

        Idiocy or Insanity… take you pick.

        Racial injustice?  Righting wrongs of generations past?

        We have problems so much deeper than that right now, this country is on the brink of economic and social collapse, and our “leaders” cannot even see it… or maybe they do, which is an even scarier thought.

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks, Ken, for your contribution to the debate.

          "There was a time, no matter what race or religion a person was, they identified as American first and foremost (99% of the time) this is not the case today, a growing majority no longer identify as Americans, they belong first and foremost to whatever political ideal or race or sexual orientation they believe in."

          Outside of a geographical, point of origin reference that would not be true. I have not noted any of  this kumbaya within my lifetime. Frustrations of a boiling cauldron about to blow over was the reality of the 50's in regards to grievances that had yet to be addressed and the 1960's and beyond speak for themselves.  This unity you speak of existed during the Second World War when aggrieved segments of the population agreed to put their concerns on the back burner to focus on the defeat of the Axis Powers. But, that was a "one trick pony", short of an invasion the level of cohesiveness you speak of is not likely.

          For the most part, this society has never really been united. Its institutions and the associated intergrity that has always been a given, has been exposed as a disappointment, falling short of our vaunted expectations. Technology has permitted voices previously muted to now speak. Cell phone cameras televise the truth that all is not Mayberry, regarding law enforcement, for example.

          And I agree with you regarding the dearth of leadership for the 2020's relative to what we had in the 1960's.

          Trump's arrogance is a threat to the Republic itself as he simply lacks the temperament required for the job, and my preferred choice is not on line to replace him.

          I would probably have the say that the other 3 officers, standing around like the Three Stooges" should be, as a minimum, charged as accessories to the murder of this man.

          I still say that we open, but Carefully, paying attention to where the virus is being spread while not strangling economic activity.

          Racial injustice, the problem is that we are still righting wrongs from generations past that seem to continue into generations (present).

          The "Twenties" is off to an ominous start, let's hope that what we have experience in the early month is not going to be the standard for remainder of the decade.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image87
            Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            True.

            Times have changed as well, there may have once been a time when Mayberry was real in most parts of the country, but there are few such places like that today.



            Back then America was the leader of the free world, today it is competing with China and other factions to remain relevant as a world leader.

            And we are fighting amongst ourselves like never before... the President calls ANTIFA terrorists, and CNN labels them heroes.  The President calls out for Order and CNN calls him a Russian puppet and Dictator.

            The Democrats have tried repeatedly to Impeach him, to investigate him, and work to undermine the nation's best interests just to be rid of him.

            And we are seeing the results, and we are by no means at the peak of how bad things are going to get.  We have come to the point where we are going to have Martial Law, or we are going to have Anarchy.

            States like CA, OR, IL, WA, MI, MN, NY are lacking the leadership required to maintain order.  They think they can tell their people to stay on lockdown indefinitely, and the people are going to obey their dictatorial and unjustifiable lock-down orders.

            Take away people's jobs, take away people's ability to live their lives freely, and this is what you will see... a devolvement of society into anarchy and survival.

            The George Floyd murder was only the spark, much of the nation (these "progressive" states that remained on lock-down)  was a powder keg waiting to explode.

            Brought on by long ago wrongs, by an out of control media that stokes the flames with fabrications and bias, by extremist politcs... and most of all by loss of employment, income and freedoms.

            The worst is yet to come.

      3. jackclee lm profile image86
        jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        So what is your solution? I like to hear it. This cannot go on each time an incident like this happens in America. Where is the protest when blacks are being shot and killed in the inner cities of Chicago? Does black lives really matter? or only when it happens by a white cop?
        This bad cop was arrested and charged with murder.
        What additional steps must take place in your opinion to stop this carnage?

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Nice to have you back, Jack

          Let me explain, you know I believe the situation surrounding Amy at Central Park speaks more directly to the heart of this problem than the murder of Mr. Floyd in Minneapolis.

          The cop responsible could just be some loathsome brute that could have easily responded in a violent manner toward anyone regardless of color. Such a man should have been properly screened and never allowed on any police force. This brute in Minneapolis was totally oblivious of the ramifications of what he was doing and disregarded the powder keg reaction that he instigated within black communities across the country. So, now we have a national uprising as the result.

          However, "Amy" is more telling. This is about a young woman (progressive) or so she says, that when justifiably confronted about not having her dog on a leash, resorted to a weapon that she knew was always available to her at the touch of her cell phone, that would activate the powers of white privilege and supremacy against a black man who dared to even challenge her. Wrong or Right was irrelevant, she was "progressive" as long it remained trendy and convienient, but did not hesitate to use the weapon of oppression in her toolbox whenever she wanted. In other words, she failed to walk the talk.

          What if she could have decided that she should have resolved the issue with this black man without resorting to her arsenal of white supremacist weapons? Could she have simply decided not to use her truncheon, today? We are not talking about forever, just today, one day at a time.

          It is the little things that have a cumulative effect, if more of you left your truncheons on the shelf rather than reflexively resort to them, we would go down the proper path as a good start.

          As for additional steps, submitting police recruits to psychological batteries and consistently holding officers to account for the use excessive force in subduing suspects helps.

          The example in Louisville, KY was a good one, the mayor fired the Chief of Police for allowing officers to deactivate body cams. Body cams are a requirement in my view for all law enforcement officers. As they help to keep everybody honest.

          It is like Sheriff Buford Pusser said in the film "Walking Tall", two things he insisted on was 1. That the law was to be applied equally and,  2. Those involved in corruption would have their heads knocked off.

          The situation in Brunswick, Ga. comes to mind.

          I have to remind you, Jack, that the inner city carnage among criminal elements is not excused, but I have every right to hold law enforcement officer that misbehave and kill as a result to a higher standard.

          1. jackclee lm profile image86
            jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Credence, well thought out statement and I agree with what you said. I wished more people would take the time to think this over before reacting with emotion.
            I also wish the media would do a better job with analysis instead of fanning the flame.

            I do hold Police to a higher standard and the facts do matter.
            This one case was an anomaly.
            Of all police incidences with the general public, in 2019 there was only 9 deaths involving white cop shooting blacks. While there were 19 deaths of whites by police. Out of the 28 total cases, all the shooting was ruled justified.
            During this same time period, there were 7400 black deaths and 90% of those were committed by blacks on blacks. These includes the gang shootings and drug related violence in the inner cities.
            Why are those blacks not matter?

            The sad truths and irony is that if these "protesters" have their way and succeeds, it will lead to more deaths of blacks. When the police pull back and disengage, crime rate will go up and more people will die.
            That is the main reason for having a police to maintain order. When that is compromised, the whole society suffers and unfortunately, innocent minorities will carry the bigger burden.

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Jack, people are angry, while I prefer to put my adversaries to shame with the pen, others have a more direct approach. I don't approve of rioting, but there has been unjustied attacks on groups of people protesting without violence or property damage.

              Yes, Trump and his entourage attacked peaceful demonstrators so that he could get his phony photo-op. A despicable man all around, with nothing to redeem him.

              Ask your President to stop fanning the flames with his threat of introducing armed forces and "looting and shooting" comments.

              I am aware of Black on black crime and justifiable police use of lethal force. But where police are out of line, that needs to be reported and the media is doing its job, reporting what it sees in several urban centers across the country. How can they ignore all of this an do their job?

              Sometimes people take risks to get their message across. Hasn't that been what has driven any and  all uprisings? How much risk is society prepared to take with America's prestige tarnished by an out of control racism and a president that foments it on view over the entire inhabited globe? Many of us are willing to accept the burden to force "the man" to wake up and smell the coffee.... we all know and respect the police and the job they do. Nobody said anything about disengagement, but I do emphasize accountability for inappropriate behavior.

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Credence, So let's focus on this case in specific. This officer was fired and charged with 3rd degree murder. What else do you want to happen?
                The riots are unjustified. Sorry to say, this will hurt blacks and it is being propped up by white liberal progressives. The white "karen" girl in central park is just the tip of the iceberg. The real racists, as Malcolm X said are the fox and not the wolf...
                https://mobile.twitter.com/redfishstrea … 32?lang=en

                1. peterstreep profile image82
                  peterstreepposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  Don't you understand that the death of Floyd is just a part of the bigger picture? The bigger picture being racism. These protests are not unjustified. If the US was a happy country, there wouldn't have been protests.
                  You do not simply eradicate discrimination with a punishment of one policeman. This was the so-called drop that flooded the bucket..

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    I don't understand it. Why are innocent people of all races and creed have to pay the price for the sin of a few bad cops?
                    Look at this another way, without the emotional undertone. Do you get upset when a white person is killed by police unjustly?
                    When that does happen, and it does, do you go out and protest and riot and loot...?
                    Even when OJ was acquitted of the murder of his wife and a white man, there were no riots in the street...
                    We demand justice, where ever it occurs, regardless of skin color. That was MLK's message. His whole movement of peaceful protest in the civil rights movement was the basis of that message.
                    We have not learned anything.
                    In fact, we are doing just the opposite. We make excuses for bad behavior saying these criminal acts are justified, and thereby embolden them to do more while police sit helpless on the side line.
                    If you really want change, don't make the same mistakes.
                    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

                2. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  I am satisfied when there are arrests, like I insisted upon for the Arbery case in Georgia. I think that rightwingrs infiltrate otherwise peaceful protests to give those protests a bad name.

                  I say no to riots but yes to continued PEACEFUL protests. Why are movements of our own initiative propped up by White liberal progressives?

                  That is what Southern racists used to say that "our negroes are good without all of those northern agitators coming down here and stirring them up".

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    who is the rightwinger? don't you mean Antifa? they are left winger...aren't they?

      4. Ewent profile image80
        Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        How on earth some in the southern and Midwestern states demand Black Americans pay taxes and then not be allowed a voice in the government they pay for is utterly disgusting.

        I am so tired of the lying, the bullying and now we get a bunch of 20 to 40 somethings like the Proud Boys, Boogaloo Bois and the Real Three Percenters armed like Rambo on public streets ONLY to intimidate minorities.

        The US Constitution is clear. Every citizen has the right to peaceable protest and "redress of government" under the 1st Amendment.

        Intimidating the public is domestic terrorism.

        The world saw that video of George Floyd and that little wise guy cop Derek Chauvin taunting and getting a thrill from the blue buddies in his audience.

        How sick do people in these states need to get? When a man is down and begging for air, Chauvin ignores that?

        If he was a NJ cop, he would be without a job and in prison. Where he belongs.

        1. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I don't know of anyone who saw that video and felt any different than you. Please don't assume that there are many other police out there who support this criminal and evil act of murder.
          He and others are the few exception not the rule. Yes, they need to be called out and eliminated from the police force.
          The solution is not to defund the whole police.

          In any other profession, when one person is found guilty of a crime, he is the only one chastised. It is unfair to paint a broad brush across the whole profession.
          I believe that is what happening now and it will not end well for the very people most vulnerable. Is that what you want? I think not.

          1. Ewent profile image80
            Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            I don't assume all cops are ignorant fools. In fact, I know that NJ and NY have the finest law enforcement in the world.

            One of the reasons for that is the demand they be highly educated and trained. They have go be. 9/11 remember?

            What I and the world saw in that video was the most ruthless, brazen subjugation of human and civil rights committed for the enjoyment of the good ole boys.

            The south and Midwest need to stop using their state taxes to preach the Bible, go after women's rights and that of minority and start educating their white constituents.

            So far this week, I heard Congressional reps on CSpan spouting brazen bigot remarks. One of them stated, "Black people get infected more because they don't wash their hands."

            Oh gee sorry soap doesn't turn black skin white. Then you get that idiot female TX rep telling the public that George Floyd's death was "completely staged."

            Doesn't anyone in these red states think before they speak? Or is there too much cow manure in their genes?

            1. Sychophantastic profile image89
              Sychophantasticposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I find you to be a mean lady, very forward and opinionated.

              Our nation is going to go down the drain if we don't do something about Antifa and their protests. President Trump rightly suggested that a lot of this stuff is staged. Antifa is trying to get the police to react. That 75-year-old in Buffalo who claims he has a brain injury - just another Antifa member most likely. All of this is paid for by George Soros in an effort to destroy America.

              If you love America, you'll join with us Trump supporters. If you hate America, you'll do something else.

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                let's not go down that road and demonize people we may disagree with.
                we are a better country when people from different backgrounds come together and agree to be governed. We are not North Korea where everyone is force to worship the President or face harsh punishment.
                Diversity and civility and open discussion is good. Name calling and demonization and generalization is bad.

              2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
                Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                The extreme right wing is just as fond of staging protests. The old man in Buffalo has no connection with the group you mentioned.

                1. Ewent profile image80
                  Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  It's come down to this: lies, denials and now seeing things and being told what we saw isn't real. It's staged. How nuts does it get?

                  If I see an 800 lb. gorilla charging toward and I am told, "No No, it's just a gentle little lamb," I still run for my life.

                  1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
                    Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    I've been trying to understand both the extreme right and left lately. Apparently, in a party that doesn't respect science (I'll let those who disagree thoroughly figure out which party that is):
                    belief=reason justifying any action as opposed to belief and reason must be carefully measured in order to determine logical action within a given legal and acceptable range.
                    So, if you think you are right, then any behavior is justifiable for the extreme right wing (and yes, sometimes other groups) because that idea originated from some perspective that says my thinking, beliefs, and behaviors can't be possibly wrong. All of those who oppose mustbe dealt with according to an interpretation based on my perfect view, according to this mentality.
                    Strange, arrogant, and divisive crap - that mindset truly is.

              3. Ewent profile image80
                Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I am MEAN when male genitals become the rulers of the world. There is no ANTIFA.

                Men like you are so overloaded with testosterone that your brains cannot see what the rest of the world sees.

                I am anti fascist. Why? Because I saw the video of some young snot nosed white male punk run down a WOMAN with his car in Charlottesville.

                She was protesting bigotry YOU support.

                Please don't ever DARE tell anyone in NJ or NY about the sleaziest bum Trump.

                He is so corrupt and it is the fault of the US government for their double standard in punishing white collar criminals with slaps on the wrist.

                Do you deny he laundered money in 1998 and again in 2014? Come on. Deny it I DARE you.

                George Soros hands over 45% of his annual income to education and hospitals. If you are so low on the IQ, that you do not know Mr. Soros came to the US after being in a concentration camp and is a self made man who came to the US with 11 cents in his pocket, how sick a mind do you have?

                You approve of Trump cheating charities by collecting donations he spent on himself and that daughter/wife of his? IN fact, you accept his incest with his daughter since she was 14?

                I love my country and any time men like you lie. I call you what you LIARS. Now do me a favor and crawl back in your Neanderthal cave.

                This is democracy. We pay Trump's salary. You don't get to silence any of us so you can play demi god.

            2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
              Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Two thumps up for your passion and love for America. All cops are not idiots; you are so right. Democracy is not easy. Sometimes, we have to educate our brothers and sisters on inclusiveness and understanding we can make our nation better. I just saw a video of a White woman exclaiming to a Phillipino individual that she should get out of america because it rightly belongs to White people.
              What I'm hearing is fear and resistance to change. We all are aware things can't continue as they are.
              We have had a black chairman of the Join Chiefs, who probably cringed every time he had to walk into bases named after traitors, several Black and a Ltino individual on the Supreme Court, a president of color - change frightens some, but America is the greatest when we embrace those changes. It usually occurs after a bitter and painful exploration of our soul as a nation. In the meantime, we must remember these are fellow Americans. America has enough enemies, and we must encourage others to think.
              Can someone tell me why we don't have statues of that king we fought against for our independence? Or why we don't name forts after those British generals?
              It's easy: Our military wouldn't have it.

              1. peterstreep profile image82
                peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                - change frightens some, but America is the greatest when we embrace those changes. It usually occurs after a bitter and painful exploration of our soul as a nation. ...
                True. This also counts for many other nations.
                Without the protests of the '50s the US would not have had a black president.- And because of Obama, white conservatives felt threatened. Trump is the embodiment of this white conservatism. And on reaction to that you have the protests. These protests will change the US. How I do not know.
                In Spain, we have a comparable flux going on. With feminism on the move, machoism feels threatened with the result of conservatives and extreme right on the move, as they see their world change and are frightened of it.

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  I am sorry, but you bought into that lie about conservatives.  We conservatives were against Obama not because he is black, but because of his progressive policies which hurt all Americans.

                  1. peterstreep profile image82
                    peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Sorry, Jack. I should not have generalized that much. I was speaking in broad terms. And surely you have a wide variety of conservatives. But the gist of the story is movement and contra movement.
                    in short. Black president => Racist president => Black movement.

                  2. Ewent profile image80
                    Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    What lie? Is is not a fact that conseratives are the biggest moocher states who eat up 85% of every federal tax dollar?

                    Stop posting your opinion and start using facts and evidence. I shall do it for you.

                    Back in May 2013, the Rockefeller Institute for Government did a study on which states get the most from federal taxes and which get the least.

                    The study showed that there are 37 moocher states that get from $1.52 up to South Carolina's $7.87 for the $1 they pay in federal taxes. Proof you won't like

                    But the 13 donor states get back an average of 79 CENTS for that same $1 paid in federal taxes. All 13 of those donor states are Dem states.

                    So from now on, if you post, make sure you have facts and not your twisted personal opinion.

                    What are conservatives conserving when in just 3 years Trump jacked the deficit to $5 TRILLION when Obama had it down to $2 trillion in 2016?

                    When they allow Trump to spend $350 MILLION on golf weekends how is that conservatism?

                    Sure they are conservatives. CONserving Dem state tax dollars while they claim our states have the highest taxes. I guess so when we are supporting 37 moocher states.

                2. Ewent profile image80
                  Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  My late ex's dear grandmother Lily Evans Whitaker was born in 1899 to a sharecropper family who worked the GA and FL plantations.

                  If I learn anything of great value, it is from those who LIVED it. Anyway Grandma Evans was half Irish (father) and half Seminole (mother) and as such was forever referred to as a "half breed: by those in the southern culture where she was raised.

                  "Those white boys hate that they have to do the work those black slaves did."

                  While she didn't seem to link the Civil War to the prejudiced she faced, she did tell me that white southerners "went out of their way to make the freed slaves know they weren't free so long as they stay south."

                  Here in NJ, we are one of the most multi cultural states like New York. No one acts as they do in the south and Midwest. We just get on with our lives. But then, 9/11 has made us realize it isn't just about "me" anymore, it is about "us.'

              2. Ewent profile image80
                Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Our NJ Governor just appointed the first black female to the NJ Supreme Court, Fabiana Pierre-Louis. She is only the third black New Jerseyan appointed to the NJ Supreme Court.

                So I am not only a fighter for my country but a big time lover of my state of NJ.

                Your post is excellent. I learned so much from my 3 half brothers who served in the WWII and the Korean War and also from my nephews who served in Viet Nam and the Gulf Wars.

                Here in NJ, you don't graduate high school unless you complete junior and senior year US History I and II. So, we leave school fully knowledgeable of the history of our country.

                I was always sorry I didn't take the World History elective in high school, But, I was in the business classes at that time and my courses were full.

                I am all for change. Just not the kind that uses my tax for everything I was taught was wrong.

                There is one word in our Pledge of Allegiance some of these narrow minded people do not like, JUSTICE. They decide what justice is, Not what the purified definition of the word is.

                All of us would love peace and quiet but these are Americans for whom gun fire is an addiction and part of their violent cultures. Here in NJ, who has the time for guns?

                I grew up with Trump in our NJ media. The Trump family has been and always will be totally incapable of respecting the rule of law in this country.

                In some bizarre mental focus, getting away with it is always first AFTER they knowingly violate the laws the rest of us respect and honor.

                1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
                  Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  I have friends from N.J., and I agree with your comment. Congratulations on your forward looking state. In N.C., we wouldn't have fought with the Confederacy, and was the last state to leave the Union, because we were surrounded by southern states and the rich plantation owners controlled the legislature. In fact, in the western part of the state, there has always been a strong support for the U.S., even during the Civil War. That's an important fact in our history. This is why N.C. played a major part in sit-ins in Greensboro; we understand change.
                  For example, just reading here, many forget the Democrats took on the cause of desegregation in the 1960s, pushing for Civil Rights. KKK and Nazis fled the party, finding a home in the extreme wings of the Republican Party. (For those who disagree, read what David Duke and Richard Spencer have said about supporting Republicans.) In addition, the Democrats put the first Black president in the White House. How can that be the party of racists? Many don't know their history.
                  Anyway, the only reason I'm reading this forum is to gauge where we are, and the fear is still high.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image91
                    GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    It is a bit disappointing that your fear is still high Tim. I would have hoped that it was your optimism that was high.

                    That is not to say that I think there is no longer any reason for fear among the Black minority, but that I think that fear you speak of would have lessened over the years of the past few decades.

                    I understand that might be like saying a fear of torture should lessen because now one would only be beaten instead of brutalized and killed, but I have to continue my mantra that as bad as things may still be—they were worse.

                    When you read these forums to "gauge where we are," do you not see an advancement from where these forum comments of ten years ago would have placed us? I do.

                    GA

                  2. Ewent profile image80
                    Ewentposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    I have relatives in NC who were born in NJ. One of them lives on what was formerly a NC tobacco plantation. Of course, today there are dozens of single family homes where that was located.

                    I cannot abide hateful people. Hate is such a waste of human energy. It's odd that those who are the most hateful never seem to realize that hate takes so much more energy out of a human than being loving and kind.

                    The truth is that growing up on a small very rural NJ farm as I did, we lived very close to a railroad track that was the dividing line between the black families and the rest of the township.

                    My first friend was a little black girl my age (7) who lived in a place known as Potter's Crossing.

                    The black families and my Dad who was an Italian immigrant shared the things they and my Dad grew. But, I got a very deep inside view of life in a black family.

                    While I groaned about being deadly poor, their families seemed to make the best of it and were always happy.

                    Later when out small rural town became more developed I was exposed to the new neighbors mostly from NY City, some of them were Jewish. I became school friends with the Jewish girl whose Dad owned the deli.

                    Every day we would stop at his deli and get a real treat: a pickle out of the barrel. Fond memories.

                    Thank you. I much prefer to evaluate a human on the basis of how they think than what they look like. Men who are thinkers and intellectuals always impress me.

    2. IslandBites profile image91
      IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      I hope that'd be the case but I doubt it. I believe divisions are getting deeper and a fracture is inevitable.

      I think there are lot of elements at play, more than meets the eye. Yes, black and brown population (also whites with empathy and conscience) are fed up. But I also think there are people with ulterior motives invested in provoking chaos. And I also suspect some in WH have a playbook out of House of Cards. What better way to rally up the troops months before an election?
      Plus, coronavirus is out of the spotlight...

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Agree with every word, but I still hope for change.

      2. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Facebook said Tuesday that it had shut down pages and accounts associated with what it said was a hate group, whose members were discussing bringing weapons to the protests that are happening across the country.

        The company said it had observed people associated with the group American Guard discussing such action.

        The group says it is about American constitutional nationalism, but the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) says American Guard "has a background with connections to anti-immigrant extremism, hatred, and violence. Indeed, before the American Guard was the American Guard, it was actually the Indiana chapter of a group called the Soldiers of Odin USA, a branch of an extreme anti-immigrant and anti-refugee group that originated in Finland in 2015 and has spread to many other countries."

        On Monday, Twitter said a fake Antifa account calling for violence was run by white supremacists. The company removed the account.

        The fake account, @ANTIFA_US, tweeted Sunday, "ALERT Tonight's the night, Comrades Tonight we say "F**k The City" and we move into the residential areas... the white hoods.... and we take what's ours #BlacklivesMaters #F**kAmerica."

    3. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      It's hard to think that we will see change in the near future, not when the response to a single man (or 3 that stand by and watch) that goes beyond anything reasonable is for hundreds or thousands to go on a rampage of destruction, destroying the lives of hundreds of completely innocent people that had absolutely nothing to do with the event. 

      As Credence said, there is something in the American psyche that permits or even glorifies extreme violence.  We have a problem with a tiny minority of cops exhibiting the same kind of lack of care of others as those rioting and destroying in our cities, but all we respond to is the cop.  The real problem is the acceptance of violence in our society as a whole, and there we not only allow but encourage it to happen.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        They tried kneeling and were told that was the wrong way to protest.

        Also, the reporting shows that much of the violence has been instigated by both left- and right-wing agitators seeking to spark civil war.

        I do not condone violence and looting hut that murderous act, already played out in similar form many times over the course of many years, is far worse. It us long past time to hold these criminal cops accountable.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          That's where we differ, for I see that murderous act as simply a tiny part of something that is infecting our nation.  It is the one in the spotlight but it is only a tiny portion of the problem.

          No matter how hard we try we will never have a perfect police force, and there will always be a few bad cops out there.  But the thousands of rioters bent on destroying anything they can reach - that's the real problem.  Get rid of what is behind that and you will have taken a really major step towards combating the violence in our country.

          What causes people to wish to destroy others?  What causes them to shoot people by the hundreds or thousands?  Very likely, IMO, the same thing that causes such hatred in a cop to boil over into murder.  But even if we could produce that perfect police force we would still be left with the same problem, and one that is a thousand times larger and more deadly than a handful of bad cops.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Based on the many years of interaction here on these forums, I see no point in saying anything more than I think your view is simplistic, myopic, and very wrong. Some people will never "get" it.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              No they won't.  Instead of addressing the problem they address the symptoms in the forlorn hope it will fix the underlying problem. 

              Bandaids do not prevent an infected cut from becoming gangrenous, and complaining about the handful of cops killing people will not fix the gaping wound of massive violence in our country.  Stop all unwarranted killings by cops and we will save a half dozen lives per year, leaving thousands to still happen.

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                what do you want to happen? this is the crucial question for all America. How would you end this? what laws can we enact that is not on the books today? can we end it? is it within our powers to end bigotry?
                It is one thing to protest injustice. It is quite another to rob and loot and fire bomb just because the police is helpless...
                These problems has always existed. Under many decades of Democratic controlled legislature, and mayors and governors...and even 8 years of a black President, Barack Obama. If this could have been resolved, wouldn't you think it would have happened by now?

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  We will never eradicate bigotry.  Period.

                  Be we have come a long way in just my lifetime towards that unattainable goal and I believe we can and will go further.  We may always have a small population of bigots, but we are progressing, and will continue to progress, towards a smaller one.

                  If, that is, we will quit using race as a dividing force and quit blaming another race for our own failings.  When we decide to stand on our own two feet rather than demanding special treatment because of the color of our skin we will progress.  Until then, I think, we're going to remain stuck in the quagmire of racism and bigotry.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    That is why Dr. MLK has the right idea. He said "we should judge people by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin."
                    We have learned nothing in 50 years on that front. We are still dividing people by race, and gender and all kinds of identities...
                    We are all part of the human race.

              2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
                Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                It neither has to be one or the other. We can work on macro and micro causes of violence simultaneously. Yet, one man''s death can change a society; history says so. We must work on the issue from top-to-bottom and vice-versa.

      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        These protests are bottled frustration from the graphic example of those that are supposed to uphold the law breaking it.

        Racism is another more fundamental part and parcel of the America psyche, part of the DNA.

        It is at least coequal with the violent tradition of American life. I visited London in the late 70's astonished how their bobbies protected large banks with only batons. While at home, I watched Harry Callahan shoot first and ask questions later with his .44 magnum as a form of catharsis for frustrated Americans. How would Harry fare in today's political climate?

        I don't specifically blame the police as they are part of the American psyche, even if just subconsciously. Like the atmosphere, it envelopes all, but its existence is denied by so many as you cannot "grasp" it in a physical sense.

        But, it exists, all the same. That psyche was a component of  Amy's behavior at Central Park and reaches to the lofty offices of the President of the United States.

        1. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Okay bud. Let me try to explain how wrong you are . . .

          . . .

          . . .

          . . . nope, can't find anything wrong. Maybe next time. ;-)

          GA

          1. peterstreep profile image82
            peterstreepposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Yes... THat's a tough one.

            ...
            ...
            ...
            Can't find anything either.

            The difficult question is though....How to change it.

    4. GA Anderson profile image91
      GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      [Note; this comment was added to to correct a premature submission]

      I am going to catch hell for this one . . .

      I can feel the emotion in your OP PrettyPanther, and I agree that the Floyd incident is a tragedy, but, I think you are wrong in two respects.

      First, you call it a "systemic problem," which I took as meaning it is a prevalent problem throughout the ranks of law enforcement. I disagree.

      Just to present an overview:
      The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports, (2015 numbers), there were over 53 Million Police/Public contacts that year.  27+ million initiated by police, (mostly traffic stops), and 27+ million initiated by citizens, (mostly reporting a crime), (The Floyd incident was a citizen-initiated contact).

      Just 2% of those numbers involved violence or threat of force. Meaning, 98% of police/public contacts were non-confrontational. I don't think that qualifies as "systemic."

      Further, we have around 750,000 law enforcement officers. How many of them would have to act as the four in the Floyd tragedy did for it to really be a systemic problem?

      Second, in a subsequent comment you said you know we can do better. To this, I say we are doing better. Week by week and year by year, (since 2011 in the report), tragedies like this one are decreasing in frequency.

      I am not saying there are no bad cops—of course there are. And I am not saying there are not cops that just shouldn't be cops—because of course there are. And I am not saying there are no bad police precincts—it is obvious there are.

      My only point is that I think it is wrong to let the police behavior in the Floyd contact be the picture painted of all cops—or even a "systemic-defined" portion of them.

      As a side note: that link to that police kneeling . . .  I was watching CNN's  [snipped to start another thread]

      GA

      1. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        You dont disappoint. roll

        Btw, I dont think that's the meaning of the word in this case, but I could be wrong.

        1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
          Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          It's important we know what we are talking about for  every American's sake.  The topic of racism can be confusing and gets everyone upset because meanings can be misconstrued. That's o.k. Here's a link I hope will help:

          http://www.aclrc.com/

      2. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        I could come back with statistics to counter your statistics but what would be the point?

        The systemic issue is with accountability. How often have police been convicted of a crime after killing an unarmed man, or brutalizing an innocent citizen?

        1. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Since I just grabbed the BJS stats first. And since I understand they confirm what I already thought, I could be a victim of confirmation bias. I will keep an open mind and consider any contrary statistics.

          Next, if I had understood your now clarified point about what was the systemic problem you were speaking of—I think I would have responded with agreement.

          GA

        2. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Please get the statistics. Find out for yourself how rare it happens.

      3. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Deleted

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Those four cops seemed to think their actions were acceptable, given that they did them surrounded by onlookers begging them to stop, videotaping the whole thing, while they ignored the cries of a dying man calling for his dead mother.

          If you dont think the system that repeatedly allows cops to get away with murder  created that comfort level, then I don't know what else to say.

          1. GA Anderson profile image91
            GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            I have previously addressed the difference in the systemic problem I thought you were referring to, so maybe your final thought might be different.

            Relative to you thought about the other cops, you might be right. I think there might also be another possible explanation, (or at lest an added one)—that they were just cowards. Either they just didn't care enough to get involved, or they thought that if they just stood back they wouldn't be a part of it. Either way, I condemn their lack of action just as strongly as you do. I think they should also face charges.

            GA

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Acknowledged.

      4. aguasilver profile image72
        aguasilverposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Just in case anyone is interested in facts rather than their emotions or political preference....

        [url=https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/[/url]

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          It's interesting to note that as we approach a population of 50% white and 50% other, the death toll is very nearly equal between white and non-white; whether you are white or not you have just about the same chance of being killed by police.

      5. jackclee lm profile image86
        jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        I agree 1000%. There is no systemic racism in America in 2020, yet there will always be some bigots and bad actors in any professions, just like there are bad doctors, bad nurses, bad fireman, bad lawyers...in any group of profession. When it happens, we let the law and our justice system deal with it. That is how a civilized society works.

        1. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Hold on jackclee. I appreciate your agreement, but my point wasn't that there is no systemic racism in the United States. That thought is your own.

          GA

          1. jackclee lm profile image86
            jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            where is the systemic racism?

    5. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Barack Obama--
      "How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change"

      "The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring."

      Very inspiring article
      https://medium.com/@BarackObama/how-to- … a209806067

      https://hubstatic.com/15043179_f1024.jpg

    6. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
      Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Hi, P.P., They did the same in many cities, including Raleigh, N.C. Holding law enforcement officers accountable for wrongdoing is crucial and so is a data base, but I worry today about those I love of all colors simply being in the right place at the wrong time. I bring this up because the interesting claim the defense attorney is making: "Why didn't the people standing by intervene?" That should signal people were respecting the officers to act responsibly, and why would people seek to make a bad situation worse?

  2. azradjulic23 profile image75
    azradjulic23posted 14 months ago

    I think racism and fascism are not only the problems of American society, but also a global international problem since there are still identified cases of brutally killed people, particularly in Palestina and Syria. We have to combat against nationalism and any other kind of discrimination and hatred

  3. MizBejabbers profile image90
    MizBejabbersposted 14 months ago

    With as many "white cop/black shootings" there have been in this country in the last several years, and the public's reactions to them, I simply cannot figure out how these cops thought they could get away with it. What were they thinking? I know some people may say that they weren't thinking. However, theoretically, these officers are trained to handle arrests without damaging the arrestee. All the training in the world may not stop a person's prejudice, but it should at least halt their destructive acting on that prejudice, especially when they know the consequences. I just don't get it.
    Did these cops not exhibit behavior in the past that might have indicated that they were not fit for the job? I don't recall seeing any previous actions on their part or any reprimands on their records.
    This whole thing makes me ill. A man lost his life; his family was devastated by the loss of a son and brother, and now our nation is in chaos.
    The conspiracy theorists are hard at work as they always are. Could they be right for once? Could this cop and his cohorts be sacrificial lambs for something much bigger. The spotlight is certainly off Covid-19 while we divert and deflect to this heinous situation. Meanwhile, our President Nero cowered in his fraidy hole while cities burned and then came lashing out to call the nation's governors who were left to deal with the chaos "weak."

  4. Readmikenow profile image97
    Readmikenowposted 14 months ago

    It breaks my heart that people who wanted to have a peaceful protest and have their voices heard had this hijacked by thugs and criminals.  Many of the cities where riots are occurring have discovered people from out of the city and out of the state have come in to conduct violence.

    https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george … 7c292c6bdc

    These riots were organized and funded by outside sources. 

    It makes me angry that those who want to engage in a peaceful protest have to have their message lost to thugs and criminals who want to do nothing more than loot and destroy.

  5. Readmikenow profile image97
    Readmikenowposted 14 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15043899.jpg

  6. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 14 months ago

    This isn't just about Floyd.  In the last month, Arbery was gunned down in the street and Taylor murdered in her home.  That's three high profile acts of deadly racism in a short amount of time. 

    Then you compound the different police responses between white people storming a state Capitol with guns and getting treated with kids gloves to protesters in Floyd getting pepper sprayed, tear gassed, and shot with rubber bullets, and you can understand the outrage.

    All this before you factor in a president backing the white protesters while calling black ones thugs and saying they should be shot.

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      His supporters on these forums are saying he has done all he could do. Perhaps they enjoy seeing him pour gasoline on a raging fire. They certainly don't speak out against it.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        What action would you have had Trump take to stop the riots? Yes, many were there to protest peacefully, and these people should have been under the protection of their law enforcement agencies. They were not provided a forum to protest peacefully. The persons that looted and burned and killed were not there to protest peacefully. They were and apparently will continue to continue to do what they please. Break the law without consequences. And all due to the fact the local police in no way have the staff to enforce our laws. And the protester was given as many opportunities to protest until they started tossing all kinds of objects at the police. And when the crowd became violent they used teargas and rubber bullets. I don't expect the police to be disrespected and hurt for anyone to make a point protesting.

        Trump did not offer gasoline he offers a solution to have the numbers to enforce our laws.

        I must ask, and I doubt if you will answer. --- Do you feel protesters have the right to loot and burn and taking away citizen's livelihood, their businesses?  These idiots are ruining people's lives, hurting people, yes even killing people. How the hell can you justify blaming Trump for any of this?  He has been offering help from day one, he has been condemning the murder of Mr. Floyd, he has made it clear the Floyd case is to be handled with good speed.

        His deeds as always speak for his total support of the American people. All the people. It's a shame you can realize this.

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Can you link to a video of Trump calling peaceful black protesters (as opposed to rioters destroying property and/or people) "thugs"?  Or was that just spin and gross exaggeration?

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        I didn't differentiate between the peaceful protesters and the rioters in my post.  But apparently, intimidating people with guns is acceptable but destroying property makes you a thug.  Got it.

        Hard to link to a video when he made the statement via twitter since he's afraid to face the press and get videotaped.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          No, you didn't differentiate.  Which would seem to mean you're claiming that Trump said peaceful protesters, as well as rioters (but only if black) are thugs. 

          As you didn't post a video clip of him saying that, should I assume that it wasn't true?  Or are you claiming it IS true, but you can't post a link to a twitter post and therefore it must be accepted without proof?

          As far as intimidating people with guns, I posted a link to a town of people that did just that...and produced a quiet, peaceful night of protesting without any damage in spite of reports that van loads of instigators were headed their way from a nearby city rampant with rioting and violence.  Were they wrong to do so?  Or is it only the President that should never produce highly desirable results with threats instead of violence?

          Here; I'll post it again: https://www.khq.com/news/blm-protesters … 42a77.html

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            He said it in a tweet, the same one that Twitter flagged because it violated their rules against glorifying violence. You know, the one where he quoted a racist Miami police chief from the 1960s: "When the looting starts, the shooting starts." A sentiment echoed by the racist governor George Wallace.  But, surely you know this. It was all over the news. Did you not hear about it?

            Of course, Trump has done everything he could do to quell the unrest, according to you and others. This surely helped, didn't it?

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Since when has looting been done by peaceful demonstrators?  You're spinning it again, claiming that he threatened demonstrators rather than rioters.  For shame.

              Can you point to anything that has helped...outside of possibly curfews (doubtful) and violence (tear gas, rubber bullets, arrests, etc.)?

              In any case, making a simple statement of fact ("when riots happen people get hurt) is hardly "glorifying violence" (more spin, right?).  You're on record has decrying his easy stance and calming words over the pandemic; now you say he should have done exactly that rather than stating reality.  Make up your mind!  Either tell it like it is or soothe and calm the population - which one?

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                LOL, keep going. This is all going to be on the record for sociologists and psychologists to study for years to come.

                I still have the giggles from that other post.

        2. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          "intimidating people with guns is acceptable but destroying property makes you a thug."

          Ah....yeah.

    3. Readmikenow profile image97
      Readmikenowposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      What I find interesting is that more white people are shot and killed by police than black people.  That is a fact. 

      https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 … e-by-race/

      What's the difference?  Media perception.  When white people are killed by police, the media has a collective sigh.  When a black person is killed...it's racist and time to riot.  This is what the mainstream media likes to promote and too many people blindly believe it without thinking about the facts.

      Remember the white woman who was trying to flag down a Minneapolis police officer and was shot and killed?  Of course you don't. Funny how there were no riots.  There were a lot of sighs. 

      Maybe that was also motivated by race as she was shot by a police officer who was a Somali.

      https://apnews.com/fe76ba4e05fd408d85a621ba52f7b2e0

      So, does this mean there is racial injustice against white people since more of them are shot and killed by police...or does it not matter because they are white?

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        So, with a population of 197 million for white people to 42 million for black people, your statement that more white people are killed really doesn't mean much when you add that context.

        In a similar study from the same people, black people are almost 3x more likely to be shot by police than white people.  That one seems a little more relevant to this discussion and I'm surprised you didn't use it instead.

        1. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          "In a similar study from the same people, black people are almost 3x more likely to be shot by police than white people."

          I'd like to see that study.

          1. Valeant profile image87
            Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this
            1. Readmikenow profile image97
              Readmikenowposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Thanks for sharing the link.  It's interesting how headlines can be misleading.  When you actually look at the numbers, the areas they talk about black deaths by police having the highest numbers..had the highest number of black residents.  That makes sense.  From the article you provided. 

              "Illinois, New York and Washington D.C. carrying some of the largest discrepancies by state. D.C., with a black population of nearly 50 percent, had 88 percent of all police killings be against black Americans"

              So, from this it's obvious it is not the entire country.  The most killings of black people happen where blacks have the highest populations.  According to the data they provided, it is mostly three locations in the United States.

              Now, I'm sure the argument could be made using these statistics that the areas with the highest number of white people being shot by police are places with the highest number of white residents.

              I think the headline is very misleading.

    4. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      "Then you compound the different police responses between white people storming a state Capitol with guns and getting treated with kids gloves to protesters in Floyd getting pepper sprayed, tear gassed, and shot with rubber bullets, and you can understand the outrage."

      I assume you are referring to the protestors in Michigan protesting against what they feel are unreasonable requests by the Michigan governor. They di not rush the capitol, they peacefully walked into the people's building. There was no looting there was no violence what so ever. Yes, they carried guns, actually armed to the teeth. Not one person was threatened or shot. It was their right to carry guns, that's our law, that's anyone right. So, don't misinterpret what went down in my state.

      Are you aware of the crimes that have been committed by these protestors this past week or do you just choose to ignore them? 

      President Trump has supported from day one the right to protest peacefully, he is not willing to support lawbreakers in the name of any form of protest. Do you ever actually hear what the president is saying without your though prosses kicking into skewing it into something negative.

      I must point out a comment Obama made in an article he did in regard to the recent protests.here is a quote

      "The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring. They deserve our respect and support, not condemnation "

      Trump's notorious statement the media reported as racist. Read the article the reported conducted to put his statement into proper context.

      "Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

      Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

      "But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

      Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

      Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

      Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

      Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

      Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

      Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"

      "Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson."

      Read the full article to discover the true context of the oh so notorious statement Trump has been bashed for from the moment the media snapped up those few words. --- There were good people

      https://www.politifact.com/article/2019 … s-remarks/

      You will see the context that matches Obama's statement on these recent riots. Yes, Obama said it more eloquently, but both statements were providing the same sentiment.

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        'President Trump has supported from day one the right to protest peacefully, he is not willing to support lawbreakers in the name of any form of protest. Do you ever actually hear what the president is saying without your though prosses kicking into skewing it into something negative?'

        No, Sorry, I couldn't hear the president over the sounds of tear gas and rubber bullets that were being used to clear peaceful protesters away from the church he went to for a photo op in the past few days.  If that's your idea of support, again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

  7. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 14 months ago

    Google search - systematic racism.  Will save GA from having to write a book on the topic.

    1. GA Anderson profile image91
      GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks. I was debating what type of short quip to respond with.

      GA

    2. jackclee lm profile image86
      jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      I know what it is. My question is where do they exist today? and how can we fix it? what laws can we implement? to change a person's heart?

  8. rhamson profile image76
    rhamsonposted 14 months ago

    The marching, protesting, looting, arson will mean nothing if these people don't use the right method of change which is to get out and vote. Talk is cheap and an expedient method to change anything is not available. Congress has been very silent in all this and that is because they don't embrace change because this is the ultimate goal of deflecting through divisive methods.

    1. jackclee lm profile image86
      jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      what good is voting? how voting Democrats or Republican can fix the problem we see happening this past week? Not a thing. Try again...

  9. Kathleen Cochran profile image79
    Kathleen Cochranposted 14 months ago

    I realize civilians may not understand the significance of what happened at LaFayette Square - the president attacking peaceful protestors using the U.S military against our own citizens. But anyone who has ever raised their right hand and sworn to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States understands.

    1. jackclee lm profile image86
      jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Careful with your words. How did the president attack peaceful protesters in this park?

  10. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 14 months ago

    Sink your teeth into this, Conservatives

    Courtesy Wikipedia

    According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), "most established civil rights organizations criticize antifa tactics as dangerous and counterproductive".[22] The ADL criticized antifa for its use of "unacceptable tactics" such as violence, and warned that such tactics provided a powerful propaganda and recruitment tool to right-wing extremists.[22] However, the ADL said that "it is important to reject attempts to claim equivalence between the antifa and the white supremacist groups they oppose", noting that right-wing extremist movements are much more violent and have been responsible for hundreds of murders in the United States while "there have not been any known antifa-related murders".[22]

    1. jackclee lm profile image86
      jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Individuals involved in the movement tend to hold anti-capitalist[20][32] and anti-government views,[20] and subscribe to a range of left-wing ideologies.[33] A majority of adherents are anarchists, communists and other socialists who describe themselves as revolutionaries,[40] although some social democrats and other leftists adhere to the antifa movement.[40] The movement is pan-leftist and non-hierarchical[40] and is united by opposition to perceived right-wing extremism and white supremacy[20][28] as well as opposition to a centralized state.[41] Antifa activists reject anti-fascist conservatives[42] as well as liberals.[28][42] The movement eschews mainstream liberal democracy[40] and electoral politics in favor of direct action.[20][28] Despite the movement's opposition to liberalism, right-wing commentators have accused antifa adherents of supporting liberalism and being aided by "liberal sympathizers".[43]

      - also from wikipedia on Antifa.

      1. jackclee lm profile image86
        jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this
      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        "However, the ADL said that "it is important to reject attempts to claim equivalence between the antifa and the white supremacist groups they oppose", noting that right-wing extremist movements are much more violent and have been responsible for hundreds of murders in the United States while "there have not been any known antifa-related murders".[22]"

        "The enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine"
        Credence2

        1. Ken Burgess profile image87
          Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          I understand the viewpoint " enemy of my enemy"

          It is misplaced.

          These other factions are using the protests and have hijacked the good they could have done.

          The focus should have been on police brutality, on states that were over-reaching their authority, and most importantly for many on systematic racism.

          The Murder of Mr. Floyd impacted people across the globe, marches and protests arose in France, England, and elsewhere,

          But the waves of good that could have come from this have been twisted by evil people who are using this movement, this tragedy, this clarifying act of brutality and murder.

          They have taken the opportunity to murder police, to murder innocent people who tried to defend their property, to pillage, steal, burn, beat and maim.

          If people come together and say "we've had enough" of the lockdown, of a unresponsive government that is corrupt and out of control, and they want to tear down the government to its foundations French Revolution style I'm fine with that, because that is the intention of the people... the government is supposed to represent the people's will... and a growing number of people, which is becoming a majority, no longer support it.

          But when Anarchists, criminals and would-be revolutionaries (Antifa) hijack a movement (these protests), and use it as cover for their own purposes they need to be called out, they need to be identified for what they are and rejected.

          The enemy of your enemy... may very well be your enemy too.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Ken,

            Yes, the focus should be on police brutality and systemic racism which we are certainly NOT going to get from Trump and his rightwinged droogies.

            I support organized state reopening taking into consideration the virus and its effect on the resident populations. That is not government mandating control but paying attention to public safety which is also their responsibility. I don't buy this idea of rash and irresponsible opening without taking into consideration all factors involved, who would?

            Riots are uncalled for, but protests are educational. I still believe the Right, by its very definition, will resist protests because it cannot tolerate dissent, just like Trump.

            The idea of antifa hijacking this protest is another right wing fabrication. There is just much right to bring house down from the Left as you say may be warranted by the Right, as far as I am concerned. The "intention of the people" does not speak for us all.

            It pretty easy to identify why white supremists and Nazis are my natural enemy which is part and parcel of the Right wing. If I have an enemy from the Left, I have yet to see it.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image87
              Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this



              Droogles?  But you are correct.



              Oh, you certainly have enemies on the Left... but this being your perspective, I can see why you would consider the Right your enemy.

              Not exactly a great choice... Anarchy, Antifa, out of control Progressivism that champions trans-races, trans-sexes, etc.  VS. Police State, White Supremacy, and Nazis.

              For sanity's sake, I can see why ignoring the worst the Left has to offer is prudent when one doesn't identify as Caucasian.

              Whites are no better (or worse) off than blacks.  We are all at the mercy of an out of control Federal Reserve, Wall St., and an International elite made up of billionaires and trillionaires.

              The whole country could burn down... the same people that truly control things now, would still control things after the destruction.

              Only the wiping out of civilization entirely, will bring down Chase Bank, ExxonMobil, or any of the international banks and corporations that have more wealth than most nations.

              All the rioting, protesting, murdering and looting won't change that.  Those inequalities are never going away... but blaming them on Whites helps them stay in power and keep the system in place.

              What the rich have done is sacrificed Middle Class America on the alter of Social Justice and Progressivism, the top 1% get richer, and the rest of us point fingers and blame one another based on race, religion, politics.

    2. jackclee lm profile image86
      jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      credence, I have a simple question for all those who believe somehow this "protests" is justified.
      What would you do if those people come to your house or your businesses?
      What would Mayor DeBlasio do if those people ram-sack Gracie Mansion or his house in Brooklyn?
      Would he instruct the police to stand down?
      That is the crux of my argument.
      Without the rule of law, everything else is meaningless.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Jack, the reality is that conservatives do not want the protests, with or without riots. Well, the people are not satisfied and there should not be a problem as peaceful protests are not against the law.

        I do not support criminal, extremists from either pole if they resort to violence and destruction of property.

        The Mayor would be forced to restrain people if property damage became part of the protest, but I otherwise stand for the people's right to protest and continue to keep the Rightwinger in sleepless nights.

        1. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          You just made a statement that is untrue. Conservatives belief and support the Constitution. The first Amendment is clear.

          The First Amendment text reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
          The keyword is peaceably.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

            That is what the conservatives would have you believe.

        2. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          I don't agree with you on this one Credence.  People on the right support people's right to protest.  We know there is a difference between protests and anarchy that involves destroying property and looting.  If there had been protests around the country that didn't involve looting and anarchy, many people from the right would have joined in with them.  We know protesting is an essential part of living in a free society.  It is a protected right.  Once the burning, looting started, it went from being a protest to being a criminal activity.

          1. jackclee lm profile image86
            jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            peterstreep, I think you are confusing individual bigotry with systemic racism. There will always be some individual who holds racist views. That is the nature of a free society. We are not Communist China who just send millions of muslims to re-training camps to indoctrinate them.
            However, systemic racism is different and it is something we have tried to deal with over the decades since the 1960s... with the civil rights acts...
            Today, we have laws against discrimination, in hiring and in housing and all kinds of situations. People can sue in a court of law. We have hate crime legislation...
            That is why, I asked in one of my posts here, is there any new laws we can pass to avoid what happened here? If there is, I will support it and work to get it passed.
            One thing we can't change is human nature.
            That is the original sin.

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

              This is a 5 star comment and reply, Jack, superb.....

          2. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Hello, Mike

            It would help if many from the Right would participate regardless and contribute to a just cause and help to encourage the participants to keep the protest peaceful. Who knows, we could well end up not seeing so many of them as the ogres that they appear to be in regards to this crisis.

    3. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Just a bit of deflection and spin there, isn't it?

      You know that inciting a riot can, and does lead to injury and death for people, yet the claim is that those inciting the riot are not responsible.  It might or might not be legally termed "murder", but any deaths from Antifa-promoted rioting is on them.

      You might swallow that bit of nonsense, but few others will.  If Antifa promotes rioting (and it does) then responsibility for any harm, to property or person, is on them.

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        And anybody who riots is clearly a member of Antifa in your mind.  'You people' shouldn't be rioting.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Might be in your mind, but I cannot agree with you.  To think that all rioters are a member of Antifa isn't just silly; it's down right stupid as most of them are there just for the free "stuff" they can steal.

      2. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        You might swallow that bit of nonsense, but few others will.  If Antifa promotes rioting (and it does) then responsibility for any harm, to property or person, is on them.

        Oh, but didn't you say multiple times that what Trump says, promotes, asks do not make him responsible for what crazies, idiots or fans do?

        1. Valeant profile image87
          Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Just the latest double standard...

          Like, hey, Stay at home orders invade my freedom.  But ya'll over there, you better follow that curfew.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Have you heard Trump inciting people to riot?  Is he stocking the streets with pallets of bricks and stones?  Does he go to protests prepared with molotov cocktails and giant firecrackers?

          Are you truly arguing that incitement to riot does not make a person responsible for the deaths and arson that occur, or just changing the topic and taking another cheap shot at the President again?

          1. IslandBites profile image91
            IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            I wasn't arguing about riots. Im was just following your logic. You have said multiple times that because someone says, promotes, asks other to do something, it doesnt make them responsible for what others do.

            But to satisfy your curiosity. Whoever incites violence (or hate or even the use of clorox) it is also responsible if it happens, be it Antifa, white supremacists, Trump, your neighbor... But you can't say the same.

            That's the difference. And that hypocrisy and double standard was what I pointed out.

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              where have you been? the double standard has been around all my adult life. Only now, you complaint about it?

              1. IslandBites profile image91
                IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Do I know you? You seem to know me, right?

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  No, I don't know you but we have commented on these forums...in the past.
                  One thing that has not been discussed is a solution to the killing of blacks by police.  I may not have a solution for the race relations in our country but I do have a solution for police killing of blacks.

                  In almost every case, the incidents starts by resisting of arrest and escalated to violence and death.
                  The solution is for all people to teach their children from a young age, that when stopped by a police, just comply. Any grievance can be addressed later in a court of law.
                  I was taught this when I first learned to drive at the age of 17. I have been stopped many times sadly to say for speeding in my youth. I just provided the documents, and thanked the officer for the ticket and pleaded not guilty and appear in front of the judge to explain...
                  That is how most of us was taught. When you resist arrest..., you are escalating the tension and the testosterone just goes through the roof.

              2. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Another glaring example of double standard just happened. Trump holding up the Bible in front of a church...is a violation of separation of church and state...   But they were silent when President Bill Clinton did the same thing in front of the same church years a go... go figure.

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  https://hubstatic.com/15047524.jpg

                  1. AliciaC profile image97
                    AliciaCposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    It's not a double standard. A crowd of protesters that were in the area before curfew and weren't creating problems were tear gassed so that Trump could get to the church for his photo op. You left out vital information.

                  2. Sharlee01 profile image84
                    Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    Yes, we all have witnessed what a Christian Bill Clinton was and is.

                2. GA Anderson profile image91
                  GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  ". . . a violation of separation of church and state..."

                  C'mon jackclee, you know that isn't what the church and state thing is about.

                  GA

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    I said that is what the media is accusing Trump of, not that I believe it is.

      3. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Where is the proof the antifa Is responsible for the riots outside the usual rightwing BS that seems to be standard boilerplate for conservatives?

        1. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this
          1. Valeant profile image87
            Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Your proof is an opinion article by Jonathan Turley?

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              yes and no. There is no definitive proof but when you see bricks being handed out, across the cities and violence results, what are you to conclude?
              these were just spur of the moment acts? or orchestrated and planned and funded?
              you have a brain, you decide.

            2. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Deleted

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                I don't get it? why the support for Antifa? and OWS and BLM?  these are all groups that are aiming for the destruction of our system, capitalism and our way of life. Unfortunately, race has been injected into this debate as with many other issues like illegal immigration. Whenever, the left loose their moral grounds,  they refer back to charge of racism... it works every-time and most people are too stupid to see it.
                I use the OJ case as a prime example. This was not a race case. It was a crime of passion by a celebrity who happens to be black but it could have been anyone. All evidence points to him, yet he was acquitted of the murder of two people.The excuse was it was justified due to jury nullification...what? where is the rule of law, blind justice, and equal treatment under the law?

                1. GA Anderson profile image91
                  GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  ". . .  where is the rule of law, blind justice, and equal treatment under the law?"

                  In that praise-worthy but mythical Book of Good Intentions. Those are goals jackclee, not realities.

                  GA

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    are you saying we all been lied to?

                2. Valeant profile image87
                  Valeantposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  https://hubstatic.com/15047324.jpg

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this
                  2. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    You are wrong, there is no connection. Covid-19 is a heath issue. Racism is human nature at its worse. In fact, I will go as much to say they are opposite. Covid-19 virus is colorblind and also indiscriminate with regard to your economic status. The only people hit harder is the elderly and infirmed which applies to many infectious diseases...
                    racism happen across the world.

                3. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  The groups you so derisively speak of addresses necessary reforms. While you right wing buddies that so many of you cling talk take about racial separation and genocide, whose side do you think that I will find myself on?

                  YOUR system is not good enough.

                  In America, race is an intragal part of the issue, when has it not been?

                  For every OJ, there are hundreds of cases of black men being unjustly accused an imprisoned with racial bias certainly being more than just incidental in the outcome.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image87
                    Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    That time is coming to an end and you know it, or you should.

                    Signs are everywhere that it is.

                    Obama was a sign.  Oprah is a sign.  Millions of others who are successful, be they pro-athlete or politician are signs.

                    These signs couldn't have been imagined 50 years ago.

                    But they are all true today.

                    You can choose to incite revolution... but that may result in the destruction of a Nation, in which all will suffer (except the truly rich, they will just move or stay sheltered behind their walled compounds)… at least we would all be equally miserable in our struggles to survive... but the pathways to a better life will have been destroyed for a generation.

                    Your concern over Whites being the majority and being in control will take care of itself over time.  Whites will be in the minority soon enough, Hispanics will by far outnumber both Blacks and Whites, and what of Asians? 

                    The world that was the 60s and 70s will soon not even be a memory... because those from that time will be gone... and so will the circumstances that allowed them... such as the country being 90% Whites.

                    By 2030 Whites will be a minority... and the politics and prejudices will reflect that at that time.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          I would have to say in their own literature and rhetoric.  Or do you think they are lying?

      4. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        I have heard many accounts of extremists from both poles of the political spectrum agitating for violence. There are plain criminals included in the mix. But that does not change the need for protest and directing attention to an inequitable and unjust system. You might not like that, be we carry on all the same. And as for how much more dirty rightwing extremists are in principle,(Nazis and white supremist types) I am not surprised. The body count from right wing extremists are clear and documented, so don't give me the "red herring" about the blood thirsty Antifa, please.

  11. IslandBites profile image91
    IslandBitesposted 14 months ago

    Three Nevada men with ties to a loose movement of right-wing extremists advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government have been arrested on terrorism-related charges in what authorities say was a conspiracy to spark violence during recent protests in Las Vegas.

    Federal prosecutors say the three white men with U.S. military experience are accused of conspiring to carry out a plan that began in April in conjunction with protests to reopen businesses closed because of the coronavirus.

    More recently, they sought to capitalize on protests over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died in Minneapolis after a white officer pressed his knee into his neck for several minutes even after he stopped moving and pleading for air, prosecutors said.

    The three men were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.

    The complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday said they self-identified as part of the “boogaloo” movement, which U.S. prosecutors said in the document is “a term used by extremists to signify coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

    LINK

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Try as I might I cannot find anything mentioning "right-wing extremists".  Is that something you just threw in because you see it as an offensive label or did I miss something?

      As far as a "movement" - as bad as this is it doesn't look like a "movement" to me.  Just a handful or nut cases trying to become famous.  Could work, though - there are a lot of people getting pretty tired of what they see as excessive government control, particularly in the COVID crises and the shut downs from it.

      At the same time it seems that people are getting pretty fed up with violence and rioting, and that they are beginning, slowly, to recognize that the protests they organize and participate in are being hijacked on a regular basis to produce those riots.  I posted an article the other day about a town in norther Idaho where the people turned out to patrol during a protest, armed to the teeth.  Nor are they the only ones; as government fails to even try to protect the public I've seen that second amendment right being exercised more than a few times to protect what people have spent a lifetime building.  People are recognizing that the "left wing extremists" denying the ability to police our streets are nuts themselves and that they will do it themselves if necessary.

  12. Kenna McHugh profile image90
    Kenna McHughposted 14 months ago

    Kayleigh McEnany explains it quite well: https://thehill.com/video/administratio … d-briefing

  13. IslandBites profile image91
    IslandBitesposted 14 months ago

    "She wasn’t ahead of her time. Everyone was behind."

    https://youtu.be/f2z-ahJ4uws

    I'll say still behind.

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Brilliant.

    2. GA Anderson profile image91
      GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Damn! I like Ms. Jane Elliot. I bet she would be a blast on these forums. ;-)

      GA

      1. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        When she reads what some comment here, she'd be banned the first day.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, she'd probably be accused of sowing division because she can see color. ;-)

          1. IslandBites profile image91
            IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            She'd be banned before anyway could accuse her. Just reading the racist comments and ideas of some here.

            I'll be banned soon. smile

            1. Ken Burgess profile image87
              Ken Burgessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              I don't find too many of your ideas to be overtly racist.

              Some are, but I can tell you are a caring individual that is working on such shortcomings.

              1. IslandBites profile image91
                IslandBitesposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Thank you.

                You're the guy that said is a Nazis and white supremacists sympathizer, right?  Can't remember for sure. smile

        2. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Hmm . . . I liked her comment to someone who claimed to be color-blind. "I already knew that, otherwise you wouldn't wear that shirt with those pants." LOL

          With wit like that she might not get banned as easily as you suspect.

          GA

  14. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 13 months ago

    New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo acknowledged on Tuesday that Floyd's death was "not an isolated instance." He continued:

    It goes back to Rodney King and Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima and Eric Garner and cases just like it all across this country. And at one point, enough is enough and people say, "I can't believe this is still going on after all of this time." Rightful outrage, and by and large, the protesters have been peaceful. They're upset, they're angry, yes, but they have not been violent. They have been peaceful protests. And what do they want? They want overdue reforms. They want reforms that should have been done 30, 40, 50 years ago. They want America to be better.

    ------

    I cannot express the the more simply or eloquently than this......

    Sorry, folks, I am on a roll, this morning

    This inequity is something that the writer and activist James Baldwin so eloquently addressed in "The Fire Next Time," which he published at a critical moment for the civil rights movement in 1963. He argued that there is no possibility of real change in the status of African Americans without the most radical and far-reaching changes in the country's political and social structure. Baldwin originally wrote part of the book as an essay for his nephew to mark the 100th anniversary of the emancipation of enslaved Americans. Despite the Emancipation Proclamation, Baldwin argued, American society was rebuilt on a separate and unequal foundation. Progressive steps toward racial equality were often gestures of tokenism. They never fixed the flaws, the "hard problems," within our systems, so gaping disparities in areas like education and criminal justice persisted. By refusing to examine and confront those hard problems, the American dream had become a "nightmare," wrote Baldwin. He warned of a reckoning: "The Negroes of this country may never be able to rise to power, but they are very well placed indeed to precipitate chaos and ring down the curtain on the American dream."
    ----------
    I want the "hard problems" fixed.......

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Well said. What can a person like me do to help?

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        "Well said. What can a person like me do to help?"

        You already have. You have made it possible to see that my opinions and points of view are not just the ramblings and rants from an old black guy, stuck in a feedback loop from the past. These problems have contemporary relevance and others can see the issues and our side of things if they truly want to look.

        That the ideals I speak of need not rip the America and its values asunder, and if they do perhaps we need to reevaluate and redefine who and what it is that we are.

        How can anyone of us live in peace and security while our neighbor is being tormented?

        I supported the candidacies of Sanders and Warren as the first tangible and practical step toward making the ideal a reality. It may be too far too fast, obviously. Yet, the very fact that such candidates have risen to the point that they have on the national scene may demonstrate that all is not lost.

        In deference to the "other side" who say that we have "come a long way", this is true, but I reply to them, particularly in the light of this crisis, how much further we still need to go.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          "How can anyone of us live in peace and security while our neighbor is being tormented?"

          This is the heart of it all.

        2. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          oh gawdddd. . . . why can't we all just get along?

          (yes, that was sarcasm)

          GA

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            So, let's have equal justice, rights and privileges and we will get along...

      2. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Really? I am sorry about how harsh that sounds, but you need to understand how condescending your comment sounds.

        White folks; "What can I do to help?

        How about getting off the condescending "I want to help you" racism train?

        That is the last type of comment I would have expected. Geesh.

        GA

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Sarcasm, GA,?

          There are a lot of people (much of the  Caucasian persuasion)world wide that through their participation are taking an attitude and spirit of "how can I help". Astute enough to realize that they are all making themselves heard that these disparities in law enforcement are not part and parcel of any world they want to live in.

          People that LISTEN is the beginning of any chance of reform. Is it not exciting, this thing has gone global?

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            I hope you will tell me if you feel I was condescending. I am not too old to learn....yet. lol

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              No, you are just among the many that have woken up and smelled the coffee, which in fact did not smell like coffee, but something else instead.

            2. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Yes you are. Science has proven that the brain's 'change' neurons are fossilized by age 56. Something to do with the electrical pathways through our 'Lizard' brain.

              GA

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Nice try, but you're slightly off on the science. ;-)

        2. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Ha! I missed this. Who peed in your Cheerios today? I was interested in his thoughts. I certainly did not intend to be condescending and I certainly hope he didn't see it that way, but if he did, I hope he will say so.

          This is a question I ask people when I would actually like to help. Just this morning, when I heard a friend of mine is running for City Council, I called and asked him what I could do to help.

          Geez, who knew it was so offensive. lol

          1. GA Anderson profile image91
            GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            That was yesterday, and yes, someone had "peed in my cheerios." Sorry you got caught up as collateral damage.

            GA

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              No worries. Hope today is a better day.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image87
      Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this





      I am going to counter this perspective, again as I always do, because for anyone not trapped in a Black vs White mentality, I hope to offer them a glimpse of the true problems... rather than these made up ones.

      What was the 60s was in the 60s... it is wrong to make people believe that we are still seeing the injustices of the 60s.

      We are not.

      The injustices we are seeing are NOT White on Black injustices.

      They are Rich on Poor... they are Government on the People injustices.

      Bringing Race into the discussion blurs the truth... it puts your arguments on a foundation of quicksand for which any movement or any progress is doomed to failure.

      You cannot build a revolution on falsehoods and misconceptions... they will ultimately fail.

      The SYSTEM which is the Laws, the Schools (especially higher education), the Government Programs ARE NOT biased against Blacks.

      They ARE in fact biased in favor of minorities.

      The SYSTEM is however biased against the Poor, the less educated, the working class.

      Where is the proof that the SYSTEM is NOT biased against blacks?:

      A system where racism was at the heart would not have had Obama.

      It would not have allowed Oprah to become a billionaire.

      It would not have allowed Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.

      Between 2000 and 2014, African American undergraduate enrollment increased by 57% (from 1.5 million students to 2.4 million).  That would not have occurred in a biased oppressive system.

      72% of African American students received Pell Grants in 2015-16, compared with 34% of white students.

      ---

      I am not saying there aren't racial inequalities.

      Asians do better in school and income than White or Black Americans... does that mean the SYSTEM is rigged in their favor?

      Black Median Household income: $40,232

      The average of all races is $60,336

      Definitely unequal... but is it SYSTEMIC?

      Our country has been betrayed by our politicians for decades now...

      Focusing the problems that have arisen from these betrayals onto Black and White issues defeats any hope that we can address the real problems.  Which is for sure what those with the real power want.

      While we fight over black VS white... no one is addressing a government that just allowed 7 trillion dollars to be shifted over to Hedge Funds, Banks and International Corporations.  That ALL us working class folk black or white are going to eventually pay for.

      While our small businesses burn or go bankrupt, the likes of Walmart and Amazon grow richer and more powerful.

      Police Brutality is a bad thing... and should be addressed.

      Racism is a bad thing... and it is an issue inflamed by our media and upper education, an unending cycle of creating racism by focusing on it incessantly... its not likely to ever go away so long as people are willing to keep it alive.

      An Associated Press poll from 2012 examined this issue.

      The study looked at implicit bias in blacks and whites.

      The results showed that 59% of non-Hispanic whites “expressed anti-black sentiments.”

      47% of blacks expressed anti-white sentiments.

      30% of whites displayed anti-white prejudice while 43% of blacks showed anti-black bias.

      So a significant portion of both blacks and whites are racist against their own race!

      The bottom line? We’re all a bunch of raging bigots.

      And this doesn't even factor in Hispanics... what are we going to do when both Whites and Blacks are the minority?

      ---

      The point I am trying to make... the SYSTEM isn't biased against blacks.

      Its biased against the poor.

      Its biased in favor of the most intelligent of us, regardless of race.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Most of this I fully agree with - the systemic bias isn't against a specific skin color (or for it either); it is against poverty.  It is against those that will not make the effort to care for themselves, resulting in that poverty.

        But your last sentence, that it is biased in favor of intelligence; isn't that true of nature itself?  Would it even be possible to change that?  If we could, would it be the "smart" (big_smile) thing to do?

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The classic refrain and excuse, "those people are just lazy", if they would only work harder.....

      2. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Well thought out, very well said.

      3. peterstreep profile image82
        peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        ---Its biased in favor of the most intelligent of us, regardless of race.---
        Nope, in that case, you had a super-intelligent person as president. That's definitely not the case.
        Intelligence and being rich is not the same.
        With private education, you favour the rich, not necessarily the intelligent people.
        If you want to favour the intelligent and stop the class system you have to get rid of all private education. Not a difficult thing to do, except for when you live in a broken capitalistic system ruled by the 1%.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image87
          Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Your perceptions are entertaining. smile

          In America we like to call that 'commentary from the cheap seats'.

          Trump is far more intelligent than many give him credit for, he graduated Wharton with a BS in Economics and a concentration in finance.

          He made himself a billionaire, lost billions and got others to take those losses in his place, and then made himself billions more.  He knew exactly how to run a Presidential campaign with very little money, using the media to give him billions in free publicity.

          If he is your example of an un-intelligent person its no wonder you cannot see more than a simplistic version of the problems that conflate the issues here in America.

          And don't think I am defending Trump... just because I recognize that he is not the imbecile that he presents himself to be, or that people take him for, it doesn't mean I think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

          That said, he's a heck of a lot smarter than what the Dems have decided to put out there for the alternative.  Or maybe Americans are just getting the options in leadership they deserve.

          1. peterstreep profile image82
            peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Sorry Ken, what I meant was if America favoured intelligence, your president would be a super smart guy. I did not say he was dumb. He simply is not super smart. His writing and grammar is terrible, his sentence constructions are terrible. He is not a guy with an IQ above 120.
            He was born rich, and then you buy an exam in an old boys network university. (not literally)
            There are tens of thousands of people just as smart as Tump who never make it because they come from a poor family.
            The US does not favour the intelligent, most countries don’t. As you have to feed intelligence. The most important years of a live are the first 7 ones. If you are born poor in a neighbourhood full of violence and mothers who are 16, divorces and poor conditions, you will never ever be a president of the US. Regardless of your intelligence. Of course you have exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.
            And intelligence is not the same as being good in making money.

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Trump is not even good at making money, if I had inherited as much as he did I would not have been so short sighted to lose so much money in a few bankruptcies, be embroiled in endless civil suits and have a sordid reputation of "stiffing" creditors. Dishonesty being his standard rather than the exception.

              How can you be born with a platinum spoon in your mouth and still screw things up?

        2. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          No, no, no Peterstreeop. There is no way you can support the thought that the "most 'intelligent' rises to the top, as in, the presidency.

          And to your thought of abolishing all private education, it sounds as if you would favor a system of educating to the lowest common denominator.

          What is wrong with private education other than it may not be available to all? Is that a thought of "If I can't have it you can't have it either?"]

          GA

          1. peterstreep profile image82
            peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            No I don’t support the idea that the most intelligent rises to the top. That was Ken’s idea.
            In the Netherlands private education doesn’t exists. So that why it’s not a strange idea to me. It is a system that works. The education definitely is not free, but if you don’t have the money you can get a loan.
            Everybody in Holland speaks at least two languages. Their mother tongue and English, most speak a bit of German too. (Makes sense as nobody in this world speaks Dutch, and living in an international world it is a must to speak English).
            Education in my view should not be something to be exploited. And as soon as you throw it into the free market, it is not education a school is after, but making profit.(or at least get even), the board of the school is busy with market systems instead of teaching. Privileges come into play. Something that is at a minimum in Holland. (I would lie if I said there was no an old schoolboys network either).
            So yes, I think it would be better for education, teaching, and getting schooling if you abandoned the private schools.
            I often compare the Netherlands with the UK, my wife’s country from origin. And as the UK’s society is based upon class, so the Dutch society is based upon religion. (A pillar system it was called). You voted on the Catholic party, went to a catholic school, read a catholic newspaper, watched the catholic broadcasting company, went to a catholic sports club, etc. If you were reformed, you voted on the reformed party, read a reformed newspaper, went to a reformed school etc. Same for socialists, communists , protestants, etc. Thats one of the reasons why Holland has so many parties. And always had a coalition government. (Perhaps the fact that there are so many minority groups made Holland more tolerant and careful to discriminate in the open)
            And so you’ve got Catholic schools, protestant schools, non religious schools etc.
            All these schools with slightly different flavours were still government schools and in the end all the schools had exactly the same exam test.
            So there is enough choice of how to learn. I went to a catholic school for instance, because it was closest, not because of my religious belief. And I had religion as a subject. But religion is not an final exam subject. For your final exam it was obligatory to choose English. If you didn’t want to, you had to choose two other foreign languages. This was on all levels.
            Well, I guess every country has a different system, and you get used to it. But that’s why I think a private system is not necessary.

        3. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          True, the wealth thing is dynastic, like a the lineage of monarchs. It had nothing to with intelligence. You are born into it, how else do we explain Nero, and Donald Trump?

          The rich always have an advantage and most of the time, it is unearned.

      4. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I am going to counter this perspective, again as I always do, because for anyone not trapped in a Black vs White mentality, I hope to offer them a glimpse of the true problems... rather than these made up ones.
        --------

        My opinion is that the struggle has always been between rich verses poor. Racism, misogyny is just a component of the whole. Those that are not of the 1 percent or corporate class are locked into a struggle to fight over the crumb that falls from the table of bounty. It is classic divide and conquer, a ruse that is a classic as any technique throughout the history of relations between labor and capital since the advent of the industrial revolution. It is just the "right" that are the biggest dupes in the ruse, who insist on playing into the hands of the CC. So, Ken, regardless of what you say, racism in America is a true problem and not made up. I am in a better to position to know that over yourself.

        The injustices are different, once men and women were enslaved, then you replace that with legal and de facto segregation and terror. Just move the "pea" under another shell.

        It is a delusion to say that "race" is not part of discussion. In America, race has always been and continues to be part of the discussion.

        Tokenism is a component of the examples you provide. As long as the fundamental system protected to the death by Bloomberg and the Wall Street apparatchiks remain unchallenged, it does not matter what color the President is. The "system" no longer permits extralegal lynchings to take place either, does that mean that we reached racial harmony?

        No one is saying that 'this society has not improved from the savagery of the not so distant past, just keep the nose to grindstone and eventually.....

        I believe that any form of racial bias which exists here is a tool of the largest social-economic bias, the oligarchs determined to remain power with a system skewed to their advantage, using any method fair or foul toward that end.

        It is the Twenties, Ken, and they are going to "roar" more than its namesake a century ago.

        1. hard sun profile image84
          hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Well said, and I cannot argue with much of this. I will add this:

          At one point does it become that not being able to say White Lives Matter, or All Lives Matter, really begin to mean that white lives don't matter...no matter the logic used to justify this notion? This is totally in regard to whites of lower socioeconomic class. But, isn't it at least a bit dangerous to not allow people to say all lives matter. Couldn't it lead to dehumanization if it goes on long enough.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            All lives DO matter, HS. BLM has it focus on police brutality and inequities in the legal system that seems to be suffered disproportionately by racial minorities over other groups.

            I will not be so presumptuous to say that this does not happen to others.

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              credence, what do you think of walter williams?
              Here is one of his articles on race and police -

              https://townhall.com/columnists/waltere … e-n2389488

              In case you don't know who he is, he is a black conservative who is an economist, professor and commentator...
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_E._Williams

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Thanks, Jack, I am very aware of Walter Williams and his credentials as a black conservative. But, both you and he misses the point. I am a grown up and aware that use of deadly force is authorized and justified under certain circumstances.

                It is the abuse of police authority that I rail against; police shooting a 13 year old kid brandishing a toy gun, shooting a man in the back several times while fleeing over some traffic violation. Let's not forget the flunkie Zimmerman, who stalked and shot a teenage boy to death over nothing. And the most recent affront, a man strangled to death by a officer with three associates while an entire community looks on.

                Williams, like most conservatives like to point to the fact the crime rates are higher today than in the 1940s and 1950's. So what is it that hasn't changed over 70 to 80 years of time? Has Anglo crime rates gone up during that time?

                Rather than ignoring dismal murder stats in our communities, we are interested in curbing those and apprehending the wrongdoers within the framework of the law. At the same time, I want body cams on all law enforcement officers to make sure that any and all interactions with the public are proper and whatever use of force applied is necessary and commensurate with the situation. Is that asking for so much, Jack?  If Williams cannot discern these fine points and differences, than he is a bigger "Stephen Fetchit" than I previously thought.

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  I support body cam on all police. that would be a positive step to address possible police miss -conduct.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    As regard to BLM, what about David Dorm? Does his life matter?

                    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david … index.html
                    Who will attend his funeral? Rev. Sharpton? Joe Biden? Nancy Pelosi?

            2. hard sun profile image84
              hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Thanks Credence. It does happen to others, and I understand that it happens disproportional to racial minorities. That fact matters, but it's not the whole story.  People are having their family's lives threatened for daring to say All Lives Matter on some liberal sites and even on local news sites around here. This isn't going to help the cause of minorities. It isn't going to help people understand anything. It's counter-productive...I don't know if I can even vote blue in November right now as it has gotten so out of hand

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Threats are not appropriate, but many of us see the reply of "All Lives Matter" blue lives matter", "unborn lives matter", as just another way to misdirect attention and taunt the BLM and its objectives.

                I have no choice but to vote "blue" in the face of all that has happened in the last 3 years.

                1. hard sun profile image84
                  hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  "Threats are not appropriate, but many of us see the reply of "All Lives Matter" blue lives matter", "unborn lives matter", as just another way to misdirect attention and taunt the BLM and its objectives."

                  I do understand this to a good extent. I'm not one to come into a conversation about BLM  with an "All Lives matter" retort. However, I do think it takes some logic twisting to state that we simply cannot state that all lives matter, at any time, because of the BLM movement. If I make a separate post stating "All Lives Matter" and am disparaged for it, this is dehumanizing in my opinion. This is where my problem comes in. It's just too much for most of us poor white folk out here getting beaten up by police and the justice system everyday.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image91
                    GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    "It's just too much for most of us poor white folk out here getting beaten up by police and the justice system everyday."

                    Oh lordy, lordy, You are on a roll hard sun. To steal a slang phrase I have heard . . . True dat!

                    GA ;-)

                  2. Credence2 profile image80
                    Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Understood, I guess it all depends on the context, as a statement of fact and not a denigrating retort.

                    Police brutality affects us all, some are more susceptible than others.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I cannot express the more simply or eloquently than this...... So, it seems plausible to assume you respect the words of James Baldwin.

      First,  Cuomo's words were that of a politician, as a rule, they know when to pull just the right words to keep the crowd happy or in this case placated. The truth in his statement ---"They want reforms that should have been done 30, 40, 50 years ago. They want America to be better." (Gov. Andrew Cuomo)   

      His words ring true... However,  very little has been done to benefit black Americans, until now. And it seems you may not recognize it or don't want to. However, maybe you should realize the  President that is so reviled has brought about some of what James Baldwin felt was needed ----

      "Progressive steps toward racial equality were often gestures of tokenism. They never fixed the flaws, the "hard problems," within our systems, so gaping disparities in areas like education and criminal justice persisted"(James Baldwin)

      Act, that the U.S. Congress passed in December. The legislation made permanent $255 million in annual STEM funding for minority-serving colleges, including roughly $85 million specifically allocated to HBCUs.

      Trump in December 2018 signed into law. The First Step Act, among other changes, reforms federal prisons and sentencing laws in order to reduce recidivism, decrease the federal inmate population, and maintain public safety.

      Both of these bills are positive and have been largely ignored.
      Trump is working on behalf of all, American's. Not just giving offering words, but deeds.

      I am not going to make a list of what he has done to help black American's, but I had to point out the two prominent changes Baldwin felt would help black American's.

      https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/19/politics … index.html

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Sharlee, Cuomo has been given kudos as to the way he has handled this crisis for the State of New York. There is one poster here who hails from there who has said this. I think that his recognition is more than "political".

        Both parties have recognized the need for prison reform, I just wished that the Republicans would recognize the need for other things as well.

        But, things have improved from say, 50 years ago. And what improvements have taken place is due to the activism on the left end of the political spectrum. I struggle from within the left end of the spectrum for the fundamental changes that I seek, for which there is not even an audience on the Right. I will take my chances with a dicey left over a Right determined to thwart any progress and turn back the clock on what progress has been made. The choice has always easy for me.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I was not responding to Cuomo's handling of the COVID crisis. I too have praised him right here on HP for how he handled the crisis.

          I was responding to the following statement you posted  ---

          "It goes back to Rodney King and Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima and Eric Garner and cases just like it all across this country. And at one point, enough is enough and people say, "I can't believe this is still going on after all of this time." Rightful outrage, and by and large, the protesters have been peaceful. They're upset, they're angry, yes, but they have not been violent. They have been peaceful protests. And what do they want? They want overdue reforms. They want reforms that should have been done 30, 40, 50 years ago. They want America to be better"

          Just my view, but I found his statement very political. And yes the bill was supported by both parties.

          I think its always wises to stay with whatever makes you comfortable in regards to political parties.  And, you have answered my question in regard to your feelings about protests. Thank you.

  15. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 13 months ago

    Does this Trump fellow have no shame?

    He uses the death of Floyd to tout his so called economic miracle. Saying that if George were to look down now he would be most pleased.


    https://www.tampabay.com/news/nation-wo … y-for-him/

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I must ask, did you listen to the minutes before what he said leading up to the statement in regard to Mr. Floyd?   I listened to the press conference in full, I can see where one could become upset with the statement if they did not listen to the many minutes that came before the statement. And as I checked some of the statements on youtube I found them dubbed from the video that had the conference in full.

      I  am sorry, his statement was hurtful to you.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I guess that it was not hurtful, as nothing he does can shock me anymore.

        This was not a time to associate any claims about his "economic miracle" with the extralegal death and subsequent mourning for Mr. Floyd. More evidence of his poor taste and judgement.

  16. IslandBites profile image91
    IslandBitesposted 13 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15051330.jpg

    1. Readmikenow profile image97
      Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      You do realize black people are not the only ones killed by police.  White people are killed the most by the police.  Why can't we say THEIR names?

      https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 … e-by-race/

      1. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Who said you cant?

        1. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          BLM is the group that are using fascist tactics to force everyone to agree with them and their definition of "black lives matter". Any dissenting or alternative opinion is not tolerated. Look to the example of football quarterback Drew Brees forced to apologize for his comments...and many others. This is what we are dealing with now. Either you must agree or you are the enemy... Why don't the 7400 blacks killed last year matter? most were killed by other blacks... where are the protests for those people?

          1. IslandBites profile image91
            IslandBitesposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Again, who said they dont?

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              show me where is the protest for those black people that are killed in Chicago everyday...gang shootings, drug dealers and innocent by standers... Where is BLM? where is the Rev, Al Sharpton? where is Antifa? If you can't see the double standard, I can't help you.
              Answer one question, if police is defunded in those cities, guess who will be hurt more? which groups of people?

          2. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            The fact that 7400 blacks killed last year is something BLM does not address. The sheer violence of black on black killing is shocking and BLM should make this their priority. That statistic is shocking.

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              In the 1990s, when Giuliani was mayor of NYC, he reduced crime rates in NYC and saved thousands of lives mostly blacks. His stop and frisk policy took many guns off the streets which lead to the reduction of crime rate. Here is one mayor who has done a great job on this front and yet, he was demonized. While these other liberal mayors across our country did just the opposite and look where we are today including NYC under Bill DeBlasio...homeless are back and sleeping in the subway and parks and sidewalks.

            2. peterstreep profile image82
              peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              The US is a violent society. So what do you expect? It is the society that created the situation the US is in today. A society with I don't know how many baggers living on the street, homeless people.
              Why is there so much poverty in one of the richest countries on earth?
              Tell me why?
              Why are there so many blacks in prison?
              Why is there every day a mass shooting in the US?
              Why are twice as many black people then white people dying of the Covid virus?
              Why is it that Black Chicagoans COVID-19 death rate is 7x higher than other racial groups?
              Why is there so much police violence?
              Why are there so many guns around?
              People are desperate and angry. Not because one man died under the knee of a policeman. This was the trigger, but not the deeper reason.
              So tell me why.

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                It is easy for you to criticize but the answer with guns is very simple. Read our Constitution.
                You think we are violent?
                Luck for you and the rest of Europe that we saved the world from Fascist Germany and Imperial Japan. What won the war?
                checkout this - the greatest generation of Americans.
                ...
                During the 3-1/2 years of World War II that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December of 1941 and ended with the surrender of Germany and Japan in 1945, "We the People of the U.S.A." produced the following:
                22 aircraft carriers
                8 battleships
                48 cruisers
                349 destroyers
                420 destroyer escorts
                203 submarines
                34 million tons of merchant ships
                100,000 fighter aircraft
                  98,000 bombers
                  24,000 transport aircraft
                  58,000 training aircraft
                  93,000 tanks
                  257,000 artillery pieces
                105,000 mortars
                3,000,000 machine guns and
                2,500,000 military trucks
                We put 16.1 million men in uniform in the various armed services, invaded Africa, invaded Sicily and Italy, won the battle for the Atlantic, planned and executed D-Day, marched across the Pacific and Europe, developed the atomic bomb and, ultimately, conquered Japan and Germany.
                It’s amazing what America did in those days
                Many of you already know the story, here is the update.
                THE FINAL TOAST
                The text below references the movie“Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo.”
                There is a second film made in 1944 that details the “show” trials of the 11 airmen that were captured & tortured by the Japanese titled“The Purple Heart.”
                Three were executed as war criminals, a fourth died in captivity.
                The FINAL TOAST! They bombed Tokyo 78 years ago.
                They once were among the most universally admired and revered men in the United States .. There were 80 of the Raiders in April 1942, when they carried out one of the most courageous and heart-stirring military operations in this nation's history. The mere mention of their unit's name, in those years, would bring tears to the eyes of grateful Americans.
                ...

                1. peterstreep profile image82
                  peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  So it's ok when it is in the constitution? Hitler had a constitution too.
                  That's not an argument.
                  I'm grateful of the liberation of WWII...
                  But I was talking about violence inside the country itself. Not about wars. or military spending. That's a different topic.
                  But compare the ammunition, guns, and artillery the police have with other countries, and it almost looks as if the US is a police state. But maybe I'm looking at too many military-sponsored Hollywood war movies.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Well how do you think the US was in a position to defeat fascism and totalitarian?  The 2nd Amendment is crucial to our country’s success and legacy. Those who don’t understand this will never understand America. we are unique in history. We will defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic...

              2. Sharlee01 profile image84
                Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Whatever, At any rate, I am not about to answer all your questions. The subject of my comment was black on black crime, and that BLM doesn't care about it or address it.

                I am pleased to see you appreciate your country, as I do mine. With all, it's problems we have kept many freedoms, so far...

                I love to travel but am always pleased to return home.

                1. peterstreep profile image82
                  peterstreepposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  No, I understand that you're not answering all the questions. That's ok. They were more or less rhetorical.
                  But what I think is that all those questions are interlocked. Black on black crime is connected with poverty too and hopeless conditions, ghettos and inequality.
                  And therefore with discrimination and the position of the black population.in the US. Racism doesn't go away on itself. And if there wasn't a problem, you never had Malcolm X or MLK. You did not need BLM. You would not have the mass demonstration nor the riots.
                  During the 60's there were riots, the fact that there are riots and demonstrations again shows that during the last 60 years the situation of the black community is not where it should be.
                  Or do you think that all those protesters are spoiled brats, going for fun in times like these on to the streets, risking a Covid infection?

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                    Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    All your questions are valid and hold truth. There is no denying that racism is alive and well in America. Some of our politicians have worked on the problems, but not many made true progress or really addressed some of the biggest problems blacks experience Actually Trump has worked for much-needed prison reform and is supporting black universities, his pre-pandemic economy provided record-breaking job growth for blacks. Politicians make many promises to garner the black vote, but they just don't keep them. I have no answers on how to fix discrimination or racism. I am one person, and I treat every human being as I would want to be treated, I brought up my children with those same values. Racism is a  complex problem, one that America continues to work on. We have come a long way, but have a long way to go.

                    I don't feel protesters are spoiled brats. I don't think the protests accomplish anything.  It may work to make the individual that joins in a protest feel good about themselves. But, in my view, I have seen very little change o for black people due to protesters. In fact much of the time the very people they were trying to help are left with the mess, the burned businesses, the deaths that as a rule occurs.

                    I realize my answer is cynical, but it is truly how I feel.

          3. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Why don't you start a protest, Jack, you seem very concerned.

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I actually write about this and other related issues. I wrote about the Colin Kapernick  taking the knee at a ball game and my solution.
              There are good solutions to help the minority community...check out Peter Westbrook the Olympic Fencer and the foundation he started...and the book he wrote.
              https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18883 … bl_vppi_i0

        2. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I think because if a White, Oriental or Hispanic is killed by police...their death is ignored by the media.  If you are not black and get killed by the police the media will ignore it ever happened.  That's why people can't say their names.

          1. hard sun profile image84
            hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Hi Mike. How can we ignore the majority of people who are abused and killed by the police while we are fighting against police brutality? ALL the numbers show that whites are victimized the most. I understand that minorities are disproportionately abused by police, but it's almost as though we are not allowed to mention that whites are ever victims at all. I'm a member of a few criminal justice reform groups on FB and this seems to be the predominant sentiment there. Millions of whites are caught up in our injustice system!!! Why can't we acknowledge this while also acknowledging that racism plays a role? I'd march along with them if it was about that...but it's not. They are hurting their own cause. This, and the "defund police" type of lunacy will hand the election to Trump if liberals are not careful. You know what I think of Trump, but if Biden falls into this type of thinking, how can I vote for him? This is insane.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Hi, hard su. holding police accountable for their crimes, as well as changing police culture from a war mentality to a service mentality, would help all people, wouldn't it?

              1. Readmikenow profile image97
                Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                To that I would say...change the mentality of criminals.  Police are often out-gunned and overwhelmed by criminals.  The standard issue weapons to police is no match to the weaponry of drug dealers and other criminal organizations.  So, if we get the criminals to decrease their war mentality...they I think the police should follow.

                1. hard sun profile image84
                  hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  That's a huge discussion there. We could start by ending our "once a criminal always a criminal mentality" which, all too often, serves to keep convicts from gainful employment or even a place to live.

                2. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Hmmm, are people protesting the deaths of armed criminals? No.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            And the stat proves more "whites" are killed by the police, and very few Hispanics or oriental... But these facts go mostly unreported, and that's fine with some.

        3. DrMark1961 profile image96
          DrMark1961posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Are you serious? Didnt you hear about the guy that was fired for saying that yes, all lives matter?
          https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sport … t-after-al

      2. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Something many don't want to digest. Just gets in the way.

  17. Readmikenow profile image97
    Readmikenowposted 13 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15052798.jpg

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Come on --- You expect this to sink in with groupthink being so prevalent. Police all bad, we just don't need them... We don' have crime if they were not lurking around every corner to brutalize and arrest us.

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Would you mind pointing out where anyone on these forums said all police are bad? Thank you.

      Accountability simply means ensuring the bad ones, whether looters or bad cops, are held accountable for their actions. I always thought accountability was, at least in theory, a stalwart principle of conservatism and traditional American values.

      1. jackclee lm profile image86
        jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        You are correct and we do want accountability. However, these protests and riots and looting is not the answer. Certainly, you will agree with me, defunding the police is also not the answer.
        The police officer is charged with murder. That is partly accountability. Let's wait and see the evidence in a court of law and if convicted, his final sentence. That would be the accountability in a justice system. The three other officers who stood by are charged with accessory to murder. That is also accountability...
        In the 1990s, with Rodney King, the riots only started after the verdict came back. Now we are having to deal with riots...before anything else happened. What changed? where is common sense of the common folks?

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I do not advocate defunding police, so I'm not sure why you are addressing it with me? However, my understanding of those who call for defunding is that they want to eliminate the current structure and replace it with a different model.  I can understand that sentiment.

          1. jackclee lm profile image86
            jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            What model? that is just wishful thinking and reacting with emotions instead of clear thinking. It is very similar to the illegal immigration debate where some wanted to abolish ICE. Is that realistic? NO.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              As I said, I do not favor defunding the police. I disagree that pushing for reform is wishful thinking. Nothing would ever change with that mindset.

              If you want to know what model, do some reading. One thing we can start right away without a complete overhaul is simply convict police of their crimes.

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I agree with that.

              2. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Deleted

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  my prediction going forward.
                  1. the police will stand down in future altercations with blacks.
                  2. crime in black communities will rise.
                  3. Some good people will resort to buying guns for self defense.
                  4. the US will be more divided between the races and the economic groups.
                  5. Antifa will cheer because they got the results they seek.
                  They do not want to fix any problems rather they want to tear down the existing system to be replaced with a socialist one.Bring chaos to our society is par for the course. Read up on Saul Alinsky's  Rules for Radicals.

                2. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  my prediction going forward.
                  1. the police will stand down in future altercations with blacks.
                  2. crime in black communities with rise.
                  3. Some good people will resort to buying guns for self defense.
                  4. the US will be more divided between the races and the economic groups.
                  5. Antifa will cheer because they got the results they seek.
                  They do not want to fix any problems rather they want to tear down the existing system to be replaced with a socialist one.Bring chaos to our society is par for the course. Read up on Saul Alinsky's  Rules for Radicals.
                  Lesson for the day - Be careful what you wish for...

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Minneapolis just announced they are disbanding the police department in favor of local community policing.
                    Good luck with that... Their problem is just starting and that is a thoughtless reaction and not a good sound decision. The mayor was over ruled by the city council.
                    In a democracy, people get the government they deserve.

                3. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  my prediction going forward.
                  1. the police will stand down in future altercations with blacks.
                  2. crime in black communities with rise.
                  3. Some good people will resort buying guns for self defense.
                  4. the US will be more divided between the races and the economic groups.
                  5. Antifa will cheer because they got the results they seek.
                  They do not want to fix any problems rather they want to tear down the existing system to be replaced with a socialist one.Bring chaos to our society is par for the course. Read up on Saul Alinsky's  Rules for Radicals.

  18. emge profile image77
    emgeposted 13 months ago

    I think we must concentrate on issues and not color. A black was killed, that's bad but overall we must touch on police brutality..

    1. hard sun profile image84
      hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks so much for saying this. I think focusing on one race here is doing all races an injustice. I would never deny that racism plays a role in police brutality, but there are also millions of economically challenged whites who have very little recourse when they are abused by our police and our justice system. I cannot say this enough.

      1. IslandBites profile image91
        IslandBitesposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Im sorry, but all people concerned about that should start mobilizing people. Im sure they're going to get a lot of support.

        I get your points and agree about police brutality in general. But this is not that.
        You acknowledge there is racism. You acknowledge that it plays a role in police brutality.

        They focus in race because that's what they are denouncing. Police brutality, in this case, is one manifestation of that.

        Why question them? Why "you should not focus on your pain because I also have pain"? instead of "I'll support you because I recognize you and I also know pain?

        (My response is a general response to people with similar concerns)

        The discussion happening here remind me of this I read yesterday.

        https://scontent.fsig3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102707394_10158274433212207_144891334330595567_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=0quAqp6kPnkAX9dwRwE&_nc_ht=scontent.fsig3-1.fna&oh=2cb293612731504acd1f6b508230c7b0&oe=5F0210B6

        1. jackclee lm profile image86
          jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          excellent examples. Perhaps this is just a case of misnomer. BLM is not who they present themselves to be. If all they are concerned with is bad cops killing innocent blacks then I would have no issues with that. Call it anti-police brutality and 100% of people will support it.

        2. hard sun profile image84
          hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I don't support them because BLM make it clear they will not support the vast majority of Americans. They do not include us even when we speak of the same problems. Besides, why not Black Lives Matter Too? No mental gymnastics will ever make me think it is wrong to say All Lives Matter. Liberals are hurting their own cause..badly. If we are "woke" we should be all the way woke and understand individuals all have our own stories, our own struggles, and judge each other on individual merits not just skin color. CNN cannot do that, and many Americans are following.

          So many stories of unarmed whites being killed...one here in our city recently. Sh..our privilege demands we stay quiet? Nope...maybe we will mobilize with a group that accepts our struggles.

          1. IslandBites profile image91
            IslandBitesposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            So you think all the people in the streets protesting are "BLM" as an organization?

            We say Black lives matter because they do. Period. You need an "also", but where's the "only"?

            You can scream, demand, mobilize about that. Why wait for others to move to then demand they scream for you too?

  19. hard sun profile image84
    hard sunposted 13 months ago

    Hi PP. Maybe, but they should call it that then...not defunding the police. That's a gift for Trump. The entire justice system needs reformed for all Americans ans that's not what these protests are about. They could have been..but nope.

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I agree, I've been hoping they would stop saying that. Most people will not take the time to understand the concept and yes, it is already being exploited by the right-wing echo machine.

      1. hard sun profile image84
        hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Yup. Horrible messaging.

  20. hard sun profile image84
    hard sunposted 13 months ago

    Why are there so many blacks in prison? The real question is why so many Americans in general, but carry on.

    1. Readmikenow profile image97
      Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      You know that a disproportionate number of blacks are in jail for committing crimes against other blacks?

      "homicide-victimization rates for black men were 3.9 times the national average and that 52 percent of all known homicide victims were black (2017 data). He might have added that the perpetrators of these crimes were overwhelmingly African Americans. In 2018, where the homicide victim was black, the suspected killer also was 88 percent of the time. And this is not an exceptional situation. From 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by other African Americans."

      https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine … ack-crime/

      1. hard sun profile image84
        hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Hmm..first, I'll admit the article is not great at sourcing, but I don't think the numbers our out-of-step from what I've seen before.

        If we were not to imprison those for committing black on black crime that would be said to be racist..and it seems rightfully so.

        Ultimately this presents  another set of data  that backs up why our entire system needs reformed as it's not working. We obviously need to protect all Americans from all Americans, no matter their race.

        1. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          My question is if there is a system in another modern nation you believe is better?  I was with a guy who got in trouble with the Italian law enforcement.  It was unbelievable.  When I was in Egypt, a guy I was traveling with got in trouble with Egyptian police and he was let go because he was a Muslim and promised to not return.  It is really different depending on where you go.  In Saudi Arabia, I saw a guy be put in jail for a few days and then sent back to the United States because he had a cross tattooed on his arm.  It was unbelievable.

          1. hard sun profile image84
            hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Great question. I had a long answer that I just somehow lost, lol. Anyway. First, I don't put ALL of this on the system as America has universal culture issues that need to be addressed.

            I understand the Norwegian system is very good. But, honestly, I need to do more research. My main things are barriers to reintegration, making the prison environment one that doesn't almost ensure people spending five years in the joint won't come out worse, and ensuring we all get equal treatment in the courts, no matter our economic status or race. I think the first two could be done relatively easy with the will. The last, well, yeah..poor people been getting the shaft since the beginning.  Ultimately, "justice" systems will never be perfect.

  21. Readmikenow profile image97
    Readmikenowposted 13 months ago

    Why were there no riots after the death of Tony Timpa?

    "You're gonna kill me!': Dallas police body cam footage reveals the final minutes of Tony Timpa's life
    Timpa wailed and pleaded for help more than 30 times as officers pinned his shoulders, knees and neck to the ground in 2016.

    As precious minutes passed, the officers laughed and joked about waking Timpa up for school and making him waffles for breakfast.

    Body camera footage obtained Tuesday by The Dallas Morning News shows first responders waited at least four minutes after Timpa became unresponsive to begin CPR. His nose was buried in the grass while officers claimed to hear him snoring -- apparently unaware that the unarmed man was drawing his last breaths."

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi … pa-s-life/

    1. hard sun profile image84
      hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I guess the individual races are solely responsible for the lack of outrage in these cases. This is what I've been told. I'd rather all races stand up to policy brutality no matter the race of the victim.

      An unarmed college white male college student was killed by an officer in our city several years back. He "lunged" at the officer while he was so drunk could barely stand up. No outrage. ---There will be next time. I promise.

  22. Sharlee01 profile image84
    Sharlee01posted 13 months ago

    Just a thought --- Has anyone thought if you don't break the law, the police won't be called? Although it seems now the liberals have solved that problem, abolish the police. And the problem will be miraculously solved. No police to call, no chance of being arrested or killed.  Just break the law and be on your way. Such a great simple plan.

    Perhaps just cut the police's budgets. This works well too...  Not enough policemen to show up. So, this could work out well for the police and the criminals too.

    I have a wonderful friend that's in the Chicago police department, he solved the problem long ago of being caught up in any form of an altercation with someone that's breaking the law.  He calls it "slow-rolling". How he explained it, just go for coffee before heading for a troubling call, and let all the sh-- hits the fan, and just show up to clean up the mess.

    How he put it, the less chance for an altercation assure not being caught up in any problems of police brutality, plus he is alive to return home after his shift.

    None of these problems solving methods would seem to help solve the problems of police brutality. However, this is what is being proposed. It makes one wonder.

    1. GA Anderson profile image91
      GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I don't think your story says anything good about your policeman friend. Maybe he should be in another line of work. *shrug

      GA

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      "Has anyone thought if you don't break the law, the police won't be called?"

      I wish that was true, but it isn't:

      In 2018, police across the United States have been urged to investigate black people for doing all kinds of daily, mundane, noncriminal activities.
      This year alone, police have been called on African-Americans for:
      Operating a lemonade store
      Golfing too slowly
      Waiting for a friend at Starbucks
      Barbecuing at a park
      Working out at a gym
      Campaigning door to door
      Moving into an apartment
      Mowing the wrong lawn
      Shopping for prom clothes
      Napping in a university common room
      Asking for directions
      Not waving while leaving an Airbnb
      Redeeming a coupon
      Selling bottled water on a sidewalk
      Eating lunch on a college campus
      Riding in a car with a white grandmother
      Babysitting two white children
      Wearing a backpack that brushed against a woman
      Working as a home inspector
      Working as a firefighter
      Helping a homeless man
      Delivering newspapers
      Swimming in a pool
      Shopping while pregnant
      Driving with leaves on a car
      Trying to cash a paycheck

      https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/us/livin … index.html

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Oh no, Panther, you are bringing out those talons again!!

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I thought I was merely countering "a thought" with some evidence. ;-)

      2. Ken Burgess profile image87
        Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Two questions to that CNN article:

        How many of those same things happened to a white person?

        How many of those calls were made by a non-white person?

        If you didn't know this... people call the police for the most ignorant and idiotic of reasons. And I'm sure some of them are racially driven.  And I'm sure some of them are just because the people making the calls are abundantly ignorant.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tISZuDdD_uE

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Those are some interesting questions. Your video doesn't answer them, though.

          1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image97
            Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, but behavioral conditioning (whether White or Black) does.

  23. Lora Hollings profile image85
    Lora Hollingsposted 13 months ago

    I agree that we cannot correct anything, unless it is first acknowledged. We, as a nation, finally need to come together and admit police violence against citizens, particularly black citizens, and it is a systemic problem that needs to be addressed in all states and on a national level too. This just can't continue! Tim, I also agree with your point. The people who were standing by shouldn't be brought into this crime as a way to mitigate the appropriate charges against these policemen. They did speak up but if they had actually intervened, I believe more people would have ended up being hurt or even killed especially considering these officer's behavior.

  24. hard sun profile image84
    hard sunposted 13 months ago

    "Blacks living in poverty to whites is 22% to 9%. Why do you think is there such a big difference in this number?"

    Many reasons. And please keep in mind that with those percentages...there are clearly way more whites in America living in poverty than black Americans. We don't like to talk about that though. Why?

  25. jackclee lm profile image86
    jackclee lmposted 13 months ago

    Can someone explain to me why the need to remove statues and rename army bases and now even calls to remove the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial in DC? When will the insanity stop?

    1. Credence2 profile image80
      Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      You made your point, Jack. I acknowledged things have gone to an extreme, I don't need for these sorts of cosmetic changes to replace the more substantive ones that I want to see.

      While I want major reforms as to how police departments operate in municipalities across the country that is not a call to dismantle them and defund them for its own sake.

      I do believe that statues of heroes of the Confederacy in the South that are on Public property should be moved to a private property area for display.

      No one is serious about changing the status of the Washington and Jefferson Memorials.

      1. jackclee lm profile image86
        jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Is the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi "no one"?

        https://www.rollcall.com/2020/06/10/pel … m-capitol/

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I don't care about the fate of statues to those heroes of the Confederacy, where is the info about the Washington and Jefferson Memorials?

          1. jackclee lm profile image86
            jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … _down.html

            The insanity got to stop. Black leaders must speak out, or our country is finished.

            1. jackclee lm profile image86
              jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              1. Police cannot be defunded.
              2. Statues and bases cannot be torn down or renamed or moved...
              3. Reparation for slavery is not the answer.

              A color blind society can only be reached if we all accept it. All of us must play a role.
              It works both ways.
              The Christian way is to forgive past wrongs and move on. It benefits the victim more.

            2. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I dunno, Jack. Does our country really stand on whether or not these statues come down? Will our country really be "finished" because of it? Seems over dramatic to me. Isn't the issue that triggered the unrest in the first place more serious than whether or not we continue to publicly idolize ordinary men?

              1. jackclee lm profile image86
                jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                You are missing my point. I was not referring to the actual statues per se, but to the fact that people have lost all common sense...
                Our country is finished if enough people buy into these non-sense and just react with emotions rather than think it through.
                You can literally make a case for anything, building, statue, monument whatever and find something wrong or offensive to some groups or individuals...
                That is not how society functions.

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  You think people have "lost all common sense" because you don't agree with them.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image86
                    jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    No, not just agree with me. We can disagree on many things but somethings are just common sense...
                    I guess, that is another issue. There is no common sense to speak of any more. The subjects has been blurred beyond recognition.

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                "Does our country really stand on whether or not these statues come down?"

                Probably not.  Almost certainly not.

                But does it stand on whether the underlying philosophy grows or dies?  The philosophy that we should ignore or forget our past, both good and bad?  The philosophy that we can change history if we but ignore it?  The idea that if people from a different time don't agree with us they were all bad people? 

                Quite likely.  Not just in the quaint idea that if we forget history all will be fine, but in the idea that if you don't agree with my opinions then you are nothing and to be ignored.  The idea that we should pick and choose who among the famous people of the past are "good" and who are "bad"...while ignoring that they very often shared the same concepts.  The idea that only MY feelings matter - you'rs are irrelevant if they don't match mine.

                These things could well destroy the country; certainly they are causing great rifts and divisions today.

                1. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  exactly my point. We have reached a watershed moment. Here is my personal opinion and I could be wrong...
                  Over the last few decades, we have let the secular progressive dictate policy though the courts and elected officials.,
                  They have removed God out of the public schools.
                  They have dumb downed the schools so that they don't teach civics, or history or why we are a unique country...
                  They have replace common sense individual thinking with mob mentality.
                  The media has played a role to indoctrinate the masses with lies and half truths.
                  We are now at a point where we can't even have an open discussion any more.
                  People of different opinions are silenced for fear of being ostracized.
                  This is the tactics of fascists and communists.
                  They send people to retraining camps to teach them what to think.
                  Our Democracy is finished if we go down this path.

                2. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  exactly my point. We have reached a watershed moment. Here is my personal opinion and I could be wrong...
                  Over the last few decades, we have let the secular progressive dictate policy though the courts and elected officials.,
                  They have removed God out of the public schools.
                  They have dumb downed the schools so that they don't teach civics, or history or why we are a unique country...
                  They have replace common sense individual thinking with mob mentality.
                  The media has played a role to indoctrinate the masses with lies and half truths.
                  We are now at a point where we can't even have an open discussion any more.
                  People of different opinions are silenced for fear of being ostracized.
                  This is the tactics of fascists and communists.
                  They send people to retraining camps to teach them what to think.
                  Our Democracy is finished if we go down this path.
                  How do we stop this insanity?

                3. jackclee lm profile image86
                  jackclee lmposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  exactly my point. We have reached a watershed moment. Here is my personal opinion and I could be wrong...
                  Over the last few decades, we have let the secular progressive dictate policy though the courts and elected officials.,
                  They have removed God out of the public schools.
                  They have dumb downed the schools so that they don't teach civics, or history or why we are a unique country...
                  They have replace common sense individual thinking with mob mentality.
                  The media has played a role to indoctrinate the masses with lies and half truths.
                  We are now at a point where we can't even have an open discussion any more.
                  People of different opinions are silenced for fear of being ostracized.
                  This is the tactics of fascists and communists.
                  They send people to retraining camps to teach them what to think.
                  Our Democracy is finished if we go down this path.

                  All leading to a

                  1. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Were the people of Iraq fascists for toppling the statue of Saddam Hussein?

                4. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  "But does it stand on whether the underlying philosophy grows or dies?  The philosophy that we should ignore or forget our past, both good and bad?  The philosophy that we can change history if we but ignore it?  The idea that if people from a different time don't agree with us they were all bad people? "

                  I think this is a gross mischaracterization of what it means to have statues or not have them. Erecting a statue of an individual is, in my mind, a glorification of that person. Personally, I've never liked that concept, but that's beside the point. Removing or erecting a statue in no way alters history, it merely reflects who we admire or don't admire at the time.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image