Did Trump Really Try To Implement a Coup?
Well, I see the Trump-inspired right-wing extremists are at it again.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/politics … index.htmlWhy do Conservatives keep doing this sort of thing that endangers people's lives?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/politics … index.htmlDoesn't this #Conservative/@GOP move just make you Sick?? Imagine, #banning a presidential inaugural poem!!!!
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/us/miami … index.htmlYour link says the poem wasn't banned, just moved to another shelving section in the media center (school library).
The description of the complaining parent paints the picture of a zealot, and zealots are usually idiots. Yet, finding one is enough for you to paint Republicans and conservatives with the same brush.
There has been a recent exchange about posting lies and misinformation here, isn't claiming the poem was banned a lie? Or at best, misinformation?
GaThe question that still remains is why?
If a poem is suitable for an inauguration ceremony, why is it unfit for elementary school students? Would these folks have said the same about poet Robert Frost after the JFK inauguration speech?
There has to be a lot of idiots for this idea to even see the light of day or be taken seriously by responsible adults. A smaller brush still paints many conservatives crimson red, regardless.To me it is an example of cancel culture alive and well demonstrating it is used by both sides of the fence IMO.
It is part of the tricks the Right uses to equate their outrages with anything they could point to on the left. For me,their extremists are more prominent and dangerous in every way.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I think instances like this one (the poem), are mostly idiot-driven. The Far-right (your 'Rightwingers') has gone as far overboard as the Far-left's extremes. One coin two sides.
GAGA, with the tentacles the far right has within the mainline conservative movement, I don't see a counterpart from the left side of the ideological spectrum.
Of course, you don't see any 'Leftwingers' in your ranks. I think the California Reparations Committee and the political support behind that committee, could be poster-boys for "Leftwingers." I bet we both can find tits for the other's tats for days, but My point wasn't about degrees, it was that in the Conservative mind, they exist. They exist because we can see and hear them every day.
GADo the statue destroyers count? How about giant Universities that refuse to allow Conservatives to talk?
You're right - we could go tit for tat all day on this one, for the fringe elements on both sides demand that they, and only they, know what is good for all.What giant universities (plural) are you referring to that wouldn't let legitimate conservatives speak? You make the claim, back it up with evidence.
The thing is, there is definitely a fringe element to the Left. But today most of the Right qualifies as fringe. It wasn't that way before Trump and MAGA, but it certainly is after.How about the crazy this nut job leftwing Professor who holds a machete to the reporter's neck after destroying a student's pro-life display? Yeah, we want her to teach our children. Can we ever forget the "Summer of Love"?
This story does look like the professor is " a nut job," but did you get the wrong picture? This one looks like the machete is closer to his chest than his throat. It could even look like she's barring his way rather than threatening his throat.
That's just a thought, maybe other images do show the machete at his throat. *shrug
GAYes, there were several pics to choose from --- the throat shot; the one of her running out of the building chasing the cameraman down the street, but I thought the one I chose showed the lethal weapon in all its huge glory. The photos where she held the machete at the reporter's neck, just did not do the weapon justice.
See what I mean?
I to assumed she is a nut job. However, she could be a hero to some, after all, she is a crusader for abortion rights. In today's society, some might find her act acceptable.
Yep, both sides have their nut jobs. It is just that the conservative side have so many more in America.
If we do not consider "degrees", than the argument becomes disengenous. There are issue of discontent for both sides. But, the only thing a mountain and mole hill both have in common is that they are both mounds upon the earth, but that is where the similarity ends.
Do you really believe from an objective standard the extremism on the left has been as dangerous and as pervasive as that on the Right? Can you identify any list of characters and issues from the left that compare with that provided by ESO?Have you noticed how many times I have pointed out that Wilderness can't (or won't) tell the difference between jaywalking and murder? I am surprised GA seems to fall in that same trap.
Damn, I hate when I fall into traps. (Cred pokes me to keep 'the cap on the bottle)
Of course, I'm only speaking for myself . . . but being convinced something isn't wrong because it's the lesser wrong, or that something isn't right because it isn't the most right is also a trap I try to avoid.
GAThe reality is that unless we use the standards of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir boys, there can be no absolute good and bad. Everything has to be measured in terms of intensity and relative magnitude.There is always going to be a difference between a piece of lint on my collar verses literally climbing out from a sewer. Both are soiled, but are they the same?
I don't recall the Antifa being as troublesome or as violent as any of the rightwing groups. That is made clear in any statistics that you want to check, the Right is always the most violent, dangerous and the least law abiding.
Not looking to put you in a trap, though....
Conservatives tend to put a lot of faith in absolutes, it is a way to absolve themselves of responsibility and to attempt to equate what they want to call actions as identical in nature when we actually are dealing with totally disparate acts.Can I quote you in my book, Credence? (I am about to publish the first two chapters on hubpages)
I can see your 'Mormon Choir' point. I can also see that as a reasonable takeaway from my comments on most issues. But it's not quite right. It's a bit of a 'yeah, but . . .' thing.
As a perspective, Conservatives do put a lot of faith in absolutes. They are the foundation for anything and everything that follows; good & bad and right & wrong are absolutes.
The degrees of those absolutes should be the only arguable points.
Because I think we ended it on common ground, our exchange on Justice Thomas might be a good example.
I entered on your point that Thomas was an unethical Uncle Tom because taking free trips was unethical. That was the starting point. If there is no agreement there, then the details won't make any difference.
Whether those details are right: the extravagance, the non-reporting, et al., are secondary arguments. You can't get there if the first argument hasn't been settled.
We seemed to have settled the first one, so if we argue any of the details we are at least arguing about the same thing.
A stark contrast (at least for Conservatives) to this is the transgender issue. On this, there is no 'first step' common understanding. There is no agreement on what a man or woman is so there can be little agreement on any of the 'details.'
Consider your point about Leftwinger Antifa not being as extreme as Rightwinger White Supremacists. You are comparing degrees of extreme fringe actions to validate your point, but say you don't see any extreme fringes on the Left. There can't be an argument about who is more extreme (more dangerous?) if there isn't an understanding that there competing extremes.
Yep, Conservatives do believe in absolutes. That doesn't mean we believe in unchanging rigidity (clinging to the past), it means change must be like the growth of a tree. The trunk is our 'absolutes' and any change to those absolutes must be branches of that trunk, not grafts from some other tree.
GASo you believe that "absolutes" actually exist everywhere nature and aren't a handy rationalization for conservatives? I can think of only one absolute, and that is 0 degrees Kelvin. By definition, nothing can be colder because at absolute zero, all atomic vibration ceases.
Oh hell, I was gonna ask if your insertion of "everywhere" was another 'trap', since I didn't say that. But then I saw your dazzling presentation of atomic structure and actions as proof of your point.
I bet even Hawkins couldn't argue that so I won't even try.
GAI did leave out a word, however. It should have "everywhere in"
Also, I was working from this categorical statement - "Yep, Conservatives do believe in absolutes. "You have the thought right, but are using the wrong measure of 'absolutes.'
Surely you understood the context of the issue being discussed as relative to cultural and social issues; racism, reparations, sins of the past, and such, not universal truths (as in the universe), right? So the use of 'absolutes' was to our cultural norms, the foundations of our beliefs. Our core values.
You refer to the same foundational absolutes every time you offer 'it's the right thing to do' as justification for your support of a perspective. It's not a bad thing or just a conservative thing to believe in them. It is a bad thing to claim they don't exist or aren't what they are, anymore.
Just imagine what could happen if we didn't have those absolutes, we could end up arguing about what a woman is.
GA
Most interesting point in physics, -459 Fahrenheit, quite a brain freeze, I would say.....
"The degrees of those absolutes should be the only arguable points."
I would probably say the extent of deviation from the absolutes would be more accurate.
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I referred to Uncle Clearance as a "Tom" because of his rulings from the bench, not because of his troubling ethical shortcomings. I have not seen enough of the other justices behaving in a way that could absolve any of them of the same practices. From that standpoint, we did end on common ground.
"Consider your point about Leftwinger Antifa not being as extreme as Rightwinger White Supremacists"
And they are not, not by a long shot.
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I do not say that the left does not have its fringe elements, but have they really been as quickly moved into center left thought as much as rightwing extremism is accommodated and amalgamated by Republicans and conservatives?
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The problem with conservative "gradualism" it that it does not address the disadvantage and inequity that it left in its wake for those who are unfortunate enough to have to live under its auspices.
Surely you don't think either of us are objective in this matter. How can there be a comparison of whose extremes is more dangerous when you don't think the Democrats have any over-the-edge extremists—like the Republicans have?
GA
Who is the left-wing counterpart to Matt Gaetz? Or to Ron Johnson? Or to MTG? Or, for that matter, the cowardly McCarthy.
I am sorry you feel there is something wrong with the California Reparations Committee, but not surprised.No need to feel sorry for me, relative to the reparations committee. I'm comfortable thinking it is political idiocy instead of 'the-right-thing-to-do'. I would bet there are a lot more folks that think it's wrong than think it's right.
I would be comfortable with that thought if I were the only one that had it. Nuts is nuts. And the political drive for reparations is nuts.
GAI'll bet 100% of slave owners wouldn't think it is the "right thing to do" - meaning who cares what people think in this case? It is either the right thing to do to try to make people whole who whose ancestors were harmed by systemic racism or it is not.
For example, a piece of property was stolen due to racism in the past. If it is impossible to return the property to its rightful owners today, then some other form of compensation is needed. That is the right thing to do.For example, a piece of property was stolen due to racism in the past. If it is impossible to return the property to its rightful owners today, then some other form of compensation is needed. That is the right thing to do.
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Conservatives always like to speak of the incidence of prime beach front property being absconded as an isolated one. But, I am willing to bet you that it was one example that happened to see the light of day.
"Though the task force is set to meet Saturday to vote, their vote is simply a recommendation; the state legislature and governor will have the final say on whether to follow the task force’s suggestions."
It is just a task force, GA, even California could not afford the cost of such reparations. I support the reasoning behind it, but the reality involved in identification and implementation, and considering politics against anything of this kind, is overwhelming.
So, why is everybody getting so nervous at this juncture for a proposal that can't be much more political theatre than and project to be taken seriously? While the Fahrenheit 451 stuff and the eradication of black folks history within the halls of acedemia is on going right here and now?Let me repeat something you just wrote because it is SO important -
the eradication of black folks history within the halls of academia is on going right here and now?
Instigated by Conservative politicians. Does everybody understand what is behind my book?Recently in Iowa, legislators there wanted to go with the Trump version of the Patriots "1776" rendition of American History, a whitewashed version chock full of lies.
And there are these anti-social laws from Iowa as well Iowa:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/27/politics … index.html
I think Kim Reynolds and Ron DeSantis have a secret contest going to see one can be the most anti-social.
This point can piggyback on my previous response. The details of what the committee recommends or how seriously they are taken or how feasible their recommendations are are secondary to the point that the argument exists. That there is enough political will for the committee (to determine equitable reparations) to exist is the point, the first argument.
Conservatives see the reality of how dangerously harmful and unrealistic the force that generated the will to create that committee on a government legislative level is.
Beyond the general common agreement that this committee's recommendations are unrealistic (degrees of something), the demand for righting an acknowledged wrong wants to ignore reality and say somebody's got to pay anyway.
That reasonable people (our selected Reps) tie future progress to unrealistic demands for retribution for past sins is nuts. So the folks supporting it must be nuts too. Dangerous nuts, because they are purposely furthering division rather than seeking reconciliation.
White America has offered its mea culpa—relative to slavery and past racist behavior, and has shown the will for marked improvements. But, the idea of reparations says that isn't enough, somebody has to pay. Money, big money, is the payday, social harm be damned.
GA"That there is enough political will for the committee (to determine equitable reparations) to exist is the point, the first argument."
Yes, there is and there should be more of it. Your "gradualism" has exacted a cost regardless of how many choose to deny it.
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While, I think that the California remedy to correct an acknowledged wrong may well be politically unpalatable, dismissing it in total is not the answer that I seek. Conservatives and their gradualism are more than content to let bygones be bygones, as long as it it not their " t*ts in the wringer".
For conservatives, reconciliation is just more status quo, do nothing. That won't make hay, anymore. The Mea Culpa does seem insincere and amounts to a bandaid over a gunshot wound.....Ya gotta be kiddin', Speaking of status quo . . . That's what I see from your responses.
Instead of making reality change, you demand that it does—actions vs. words. The difference is that we have made reality change (as noted above) by taking achievable steps. You have been demanding reality change—now, once and done, and you won't cut the chains of the past until it does, and look where we are. None of that progress will be good enough until the past sins are paid for.
This Conservative (and my ilk) doesn't think reconciliation means keeping all things as they are. It's no wonder you see the "mea culpa" as insincere, you paint the whole to be as the fringe. We have gone from the segregation of the 50s to electing a Black president. That looks like change and progress to me. The steps that had to be taken to make that possible look like sincere efforts to me, and they look like a lot more than bandaids. Also, moving a national ethos from segregation to the Oval Office in one lifespan looks like more than mere gradualism to me.
GAThe call for reparations is similar to the demands of terrorists.
Give us money, or we will become discontent and violent.
Let us assault you on the streets as reparations, let us loot as reparations, let us bring down the fabric of civil society for reparations.
There is nothing right or American about it.
America, the Idea of it and the Constitution, was to allow for the Freedom to pursue Opportunity and Happiness.
Not to pay for wrongs done to long dead relatives.
Not to pay for your living, housing, medical expenses.
It is about allowing you to have the ability to live a life that you can provide for yourself. Through your own efforts, without someone else being able to take those things away from you.That immediately brought to mind something someone here occasionally says O' LORDY. Now you are a terrorist, Credence. And not just the run-of-the-mail white supremist domestic terrorist, but a black terrorist looking for justice.
:Not to pay for wrongs done to long dead relatives.: - THAT KIND of sentiment makes me wonder why we have a justice system at all. After all, isn't that simply sowing divisions rather than seeking reconciliation?
Some white man stole your grandfather's land (which you would have inherited) decades ago. So sad, too bad - just live with it. Don't try to get your land back or the value of it. Just let the thief keep it so as not to piss off some conservative.That sounds like an excellent idea... take it to court, individual by individual.
Those who are ancestors of slaves... sue the ancestors of the slave owners.
I like that idea. Let it be proven in court that you are an ancestor of a slave and then sue those who owned or were responsible for that slavery.
Then let the courts, the jury, decide.
If there is some statute of limitations that would prevent such a thing, then State or Federal laws can be amended or passed to allow for it.So, I guess now I am the ogre, ESO?
So, I am a terrorist, huh?
Conservative delight in relegating what ever is convenient for them to past, until they don't.
They cling to confederate heroes, folklore and battle flags, while they say that 18th century men in knickerbockers clinging to their circumstances and values, not saying how much of that lie in the past.
I make no threats, just telling it like it is from my point of view.....
Like ESO says, reality is absolute zero, gravity and immutable physical laws. But, this "Reality" that you speak of is that which was created by men and women, institutions and thus were not immutable in the same sense. Your forebears could have taken a different course and not use the excuse as justification to torment people for so long a time simply because they were different.
I certain don't intend to exacerbate you, white folks, conservatives, etc. I am just attempting to explain the reasoning behind the reparations ideas that is anathema to conservatives. But again, that is why conservatives burn books and play "Mr. Peabody and Sherman" with American History.
As they say, "the past is prologue". Yes, progress has been made, but over so many generations we still 'smart' over the theft and denial of opportunity. Symbols and images change, but the substance of America is wealth and power.
I reference Jackson, Miss. in the midst of it water crisis. The state capital with 83 percent African American residents.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/jac … -rcna65563
The image on a television screen is hardly even close to the substance of what is televised. Local Jackson broadcast stations boasts plenty of black news anchors, which was certainly not the case 60 years ago. But when your entire community is unable to affect change such as providing decent water supplies to its residents and the Governor and the Mississippi legislatures are indifferent to the need, it ultimately comes down to wealth and power. A better balance of that within this society should be the next phase of the "revolution".So how long do you figure it will take for Black people in America to balance wealth and power when it is pretty clear many feel lesser and want reparations? How would this actually help change the mindset of many blacks in America? It is clear the percentage of Black do not thrive or accumulate wealth. But many do, maybe black people should take the same route as the blacks that thrived instead of just more or less feel they need to be compensated for slavery.
I mean the time has come and passed for anyone in America to feel if they are left out of reach for the American dream.
I am not sure why or how so many Europeans came to America with nearly nothing yet these people tried, they actually built America into what it is today. Not to mention the Jews that came after the war, and built lives, and wealth. Please tell me why, it would seem Black citizens just can't seem to pull forward and thrive.
I feel it comes down to fractures that could be solved --- better education, and more stable homes, would be a good place to start. Black people should be furious with the lack of good public school education. Yet, you see little from your party offering better education opportunities. No, you see them still offering a mule and 40 acres, in the way of reparations. This is just another ploy to keep blacks right where Democrats want them, with their hands open.These are good questions the sort that I would like more of you to ask.
Most wealth is inherited over time, we start behind the 8 ball, when only 60 years ago we could get mortgage lenders to do business with us. There is always going to be an Oprah or some that manage to negotiate the minefield placed in their path, can all of you be a Bill Gates or a Warren Buffet by following their path? Is it really that simple? It takes money, accumulated wealth to get anything started here. we are far behind in the aspects most important in America, wealth and power. Your suggestion of following positive role models is not dismissed out of hand and we should be doing that. As I have said in many articles, we need to circle the wagons and be more insular in our dealings with one another. As the general society tells us in no uncertain terms "get over the past lies, terrorism and theft and take care of yourselves". As for that balance that I seek, I would be pleasantly surprised if it can occur by the end of this century, there is some room for optimism.
It is different to come here as an immigrant, with family and objectives intact verses being indigenous or a slave person,who started with nothing, never received the 40 acres and a mule. And to add to that 100 years of legalized torment and deliberate theft of effort and resources. It is not the same. What other group has had that experience within the "land of the free"?
Pulling forward and thriving is more difficult because your systemic systems have taken too much for too long. But, we will get there. I opposed the reparations idea as unworkable, but that does not absolve the system and the majority of having a hand in why we are where we are. As the "yoke" is barely 60 years removed.
Good educations means good jobs. Good jobs contribute to stable families and homelife. The stability that can produce allow for the accumulation of wealth to pass on to succeeding generations. The point that I make is that it is not ALL on us.
While, I may see little from Democrats, I see nothing from Republicans who are in a hurry to take away what progress has already been made."As the general society tells us in no uncertain terms "get over the past lies, terrorism and theft and take care of yourselves". - Which is very hard to do when a large segment of that society wants to keep you in whatever chains they can muster.
I am then reminded of Rosewood and Tulsa and the countless places where the whites envious of any black progress would take of attitude of just knocking it down like so many dominoes. It was almost an obsession with them.
I was going to get into a discussion with Ken over the early 20th century controversy between Booker T Washington and WEB DuBois as to the best direction blacks should take to progress. Washington was content to allow the total disenfranchisement and denial of civil rights in exchange for southern whites allowing Blacks the ability to work and profit from their own efforts. I said that was wrong for as Dr. DuBois said without civil rights, whatever you build can be just as easily destroyed with no more effort from or consequences to whites than their kicking aside a mere anthill.
Sharing a brush with history with you.
My greataunt (1899-1992) met Booker T. Washington while she was a little girl in Virginia in 1911. I used to like to listen to her speak of times long past and what they were like. Aunty used to say in regards to the Teapot dome scandal during Warren Harding's administration, "back then they stole thousands, now they steal millions" I had to correct her, "no Auntie, its billions now".
I also had the honor of being acquainted with the granddaughter of WEB DuBois, who was my mom's age. She was living in the Denver area during the 1960s and she would come over to our house for bridge parties. Her kids were about my age at the time. The granddaughter had since died 3 or 4 years ago.
So, I kind of took an interest in both of these men and their times.In my primary school days, I had the fortune of reading Booker T. Washington, learning to read and write right from his mother at home at an early age. As for WEB DeBois, I'm acquaint with his history in my secondary school. Both fingures are notably black Africa-Americans, rising from the cradle of slavery. Like Dr. Martin Luther King,jr they also 'had a dream' for the de-segretion of whites against blacks. Such fingure in America made American history meaningful and important.
The biggest problem for America is the continual propagation of separation by "race" by "sex" and now by "identity".
We have been REGRESSING rather than progressing in the last 25 years.
And this is as a society as a whole.
When listening to Thomas Sowell speak about growing up in Harlem in the 50s, he tells of how you never heard gunfire, that people slept outdoors in the park or on fire-escapes on hot nights (there was no air conditioning back then).
There are some parts of America today, more specifically on the West Coast, where hearing gunshots is common place, where homeless roaming the streets and sprawling all along the sidewalks is commonplace.
And things are only getting worse, looting is becoming common place, assault is becoming common place on the West Coast as well.
When there are no consequences for committing crimes, when you tell people that they have a right to reparations, that looting is reparations, then you are feeding the flames of civil unrest and social deconstruction.
The message to Black Americans today is not that this is the land of opportunity and if you work hard and strive to be successful you can make something of yourself... today's messaging is that Black Americans are oppressed, discriminated against, that the system will never give them a break, never let them succeed.
This messaging that they are recieving continuosly, that is echoed and reinforced by CNN, MSNBC, and the like day after day after day, enslaves the mind.
Despite the messaging flying in the face of the reality around them... Obama, Oprah, Michael Jordan, Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman... they cannot get free of the constant propaganda that tells them they are not valued, that they are discriminated against, in this society.
Victor J. Glover, Jr., first Black astronaut to live and work at the International Space Station.
David Steward is owner of an IT service provider that counts Citi, Verizon, and the federal government as clients. He also happens to be a billionaire.
Investor Robert F. Smith is the richest black man in the country, worth over 5 billion dollars.
Racism needs to be attacked in America... systemic racism... and part of that systemic racism is the continued propagation that there is racism and there is a difference between races.
So long as the minds of young people are shackled with the mindset that the system is rigged against them and no matter what they do they cannot succeed, the majority will believe this and accept failure before they even begin to try.Thank you, Ken, for this well thoughout discourse, and analysis. News media like CNN have done more harm than can imagine. Three decades has past...and I had not meddled with CNN. What is happening is destroying America, and the government seems to leverage right on it I guest? Does 'race' 'sex' 'iddntity' negatively affect late boxing legend M. Ali? Does it degraded tennis star. Arthur Asher, and presently the Williams sisters? Nope. The time has come to root out all propaganda sowers by the goverment. God save America!
Try YEP, to all your questions about Ali, Asher, and the Williams sisters - it has negatively affected them. They would would have been even greater had they been white and not had to struggle through endemic racism.
Also, the facts simply don't support your hatred of CNN. It is well liked by thinking people in America.My point was that my characters took racism by the horn to be that great. Doesn't Barak Obama, as two term president met your qualification of 'greater'?
"The biggest problem for America is the continual propagation of separation by "race" by "sex" and now by "identity"." - NO, THE BIGGEST problem in America is there is huge class of people who are actively determined not to let those who aren't white, Protestant, male, and straight be whoever they want to be.
Kudos to you for your study of American history.......
Thank you, Credence. At university I study more of American history, especially her part in the second world war, and her emergency as a world power. But now declining. America will be great again. Not under old joe biden. But Trump, if the Dem adopted him?
Ah, here is a critical difference in perspectives and beliefs we can debate, that is not predicated on race.
I disagree with this entirely. Many self made and successful honest people would.
Three times in my lifetime I have built myself up from less than nothing.
The first was entering the Army at age 18 with nothing and earning everything I got.
The second was when I divorced myself from the military and had nothing, I had to go home to take care of my sister who had a stroke and was found dead at the bottom of the stairs before the EMTs recessitated her, she suffered brain damage and will always be severely handicapped... there was no one else to care for her at that time.
The third was when I packed my family up and we fled the insidious hell hole that NY is to people who work for a living... we were worse than broke, we had debt, a bankruptcy, and had to live paycheck to paycheck with two young kids in tow.
I have built up everything I have on my own, I have had everything I built up lost or taken, and had to build back up from being in a hole.
Nothing was passed down to me. The most successful people are not the ones who have things passed down to them.
The successful people are the ones that strive, struggle and work hard to succeed, to overcome whatever obstacles get thrown in their way.
That doesn't come from anywhere other than what is inside an individual.I don't think you get it. This isn't about striving for anything. This is about justice, simple as that.
Man please. What Ken stated is correct. I applaud Ken very much.
I sympathize with the misfortune that you had experienced within your family.
But, it is what a lot of conservative white men say, I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps" to attempt to compare their individual circumstances to a sinister nationally systemic bigotry that worked against groups of people from the outset. That is something that you did not experience and there is no comparison. Once we get beyond that, then all of the Horatio Alger stuff can come to play about the struggles, obstacles and so forth....I don't think systemic racism is a good thing, or that it should exist.
But you are an example of what I described about myself, something within you is why you were successful despite obstacles thrown in your way.
It is hard to say what makes a person learn how to succeed, but I think a part of that is having to struggle, having to push oneself. Failing and having the intestinal fortitude to not give up.
Race had no benefit to me when I pushed myself through a variety of military schools. Race had nothing to do with me pursuing getting various licenses, starting a business, learning to trade stocks.
We all have misfortunes and we all catch breaks, in the form of mentors or people who give aid or advice, opportunity doesn't come to you very often, most times you have to create the opportunity for yourself.
I believe this concept of racism holding people back, or reparations being owed, only gives people an excuse to fail, to say "the system is against me so why even bother trying".
You have people coming into this country, who are not white, who cannot speak english well, and they find a way to make something of themselves. They build a life for themselves, despite whatever racism they come across or whatever obstacles get in their way.
They don't make excuses, they don't blame others, they get to work finding ways to make a better life for themselves.
I watch quite a bit of YouTube content made by younger black men who are reviewing content of (usually) other black men, it is interesting to watch them be exposed to differing viewpoints and express their opinions on the matter.
One of the things that I am beginning to see in these, is a common theme among these young men, and how they are working out for themselves the reality of the world, versus the general "racism and oppression" script they have been told.
Videos like this:
Jamel_AKA_Jamal
Thomas Sowell vs Trevor Noah On Slavery and Reparations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmTaZYkuJkE
LFR Family
WE HAVE ALL BEEN DUPED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNtYF8kq1g
I like that so many young men like this are becoming influential on Youtube and other platforms and are getting different ideas out there.Haven't we deflected away from the actual issue - making a wrong, right?
Maybe, I have laid out the points of this discussion as being to close and affected by it. Let look at it from another perspective, shall we?
First of all, we all are subject to the ups and down of life, the breaks and the tragedies. Most of us from that aspect each have his own challenges.
But,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internm … _Americans
What about this, what happened under President Roosevelt's Executive order No. 9066, placed upon the Japanese AMERICAN CITIZEN? It is a bit more than the misfortune of hard luck. More was involved than seeking opportunity for yourself and all this talk about hard work overcoming everything. Well, what happened was not fair and was a crime that ultimately was acknowledged as such by President Carter as just loathsome racism and war hysteria. And to think 93 percent of Americans in a poll taken in 1942 went along saying it was a good idea. Doesn't say much for the mindset of white folks some 80 years ago. Is it no wonder with that kind of thinking, Black folks were having a hard time. So much for the Constitution Bill of Rights or innocent until proven guilty. Read the article and see for your self how vicious this affair entire was.
The white farmers absconded with their property and accumulated wealth, taking advantage of the Executive Order. So much for the virtues of hard work and such. Those that survived received reparations as they deserve to being victim of a crime of the Government's own making. So, your bootstrap analogy does not always apply, does it?
This is very similar to point I make regarding reparation, American racism has been far too entrenched and its people hard hearted to consider such a thing from a political perspective. But, I can at insist that your Governor does not take the course of a common thief, burning books and brainwashing people to conceal the crime or deny that it had even occurred. I won't have this Governor's or right wing reactionaries lying to my nieces and nephews."The white farmers absconded with their property and accumulated wealth, taking advantage of the Executive Order. " - IT IS beyond my ability to understand why there people in this world who think returning those lands to whom they were taken or their descendants is a bad thing and fight hard to keep the status quo..
That is a good counter, I cannot argue that in times in our history there was absolute discrimination against races that were not white.
Native American, Japanese, Chinese, African, Mexican, at one time or another they all suffered oppression, discrimination, or worse.
If I remember my history correctly, you can even go back to a point where Protestants discriminated against Catholics. We have a State today that is essentially a theocracy, in Utah, I wouldn't be surprised if there is bias the government there... but I digress.
The two points I have always tried to make in this regard is:
A) That there is not a Federally backed systemic effort to discriminate against people based on race. In addition, there are considerable Federal resources to aid and protect people of minority status to keep from being discriminated against and to lend aid.
B) The MSM has propagated the narrative, supported fully by the overwhelming majority of Universities in the country today (and education topics of Social Justice, CRT, etc.) that have made race issues far worse in the country.
On the one hand, you have outlandish beliefs being propagated like "Looting is Reparations" and "Police and Laws are racist" that do nothing to bring up the level of success and achievement, of anyone, they only tear down our society and economy.
On the other hand, they program a vast majority of blacks to believe "the system" or "the man" will never let them succeed, not matter how hard they try, no matter how smart they are, no matter how talented, they will be oppressed, they are doomed to fail.
If you want to see black people fail, if you want them to squander their opportunities and lives away, then this is exactly what you program them to think... exactly the kind of garbage the likes of CNN and MSNBC and Universities that produce Degrees in Social Justice want them to believe.
A society of victimhood is a society of losers, doomed to fail. You've already accepted your defeat, your failure, as soon as you accept this dogma, this mentality, that you are owed something, that the system is against you.Good that you can acknowlege the very existence of systemic racism, that is a damn site more than I can get most conservatives to admit to.
You can, in effect, have systemic racism over a long period of time that even when it is removed there remain residual affects. I would not say that about slavery but more about the 100 years of terror in its aftermath. If you plunge a dagger in a man's back, just because you immediately remove it, is it all good now? The gaping wound remains and has to heal. 1965 is generally agreed upon by civil rights historians as to when things started to turn around.
If these resources against discrimination were available a century ago, perhaps this conversation would not have been necessary.
Yes, it is better, TODAY. There have been increasing Windows of opportunities not there in my era. I have been all for encouraging our members to educate and other wise prepare themselves for life in very competitive society with the attitude you can go as far as your ambition, hard work and perseverance will take you. Things may have moved far enough along where we no longer have to assume that racism is behind every shadow. But, I don't want anyone to forget what did happen, so we do not see a repeat of it in another form in the future. Because candor and honesty is part and parcel related to progress and healing between us.
I am content to let the experience of our younger generation in society and their observations in regards to these matters determine where we actually areNot only are you a terrorist, Credence, now you are a loser as well, I see.
But, do not forget that things kept improving from 1964 until William Rehnquist joined the Court and started it down its conservative path. Progress has slowed down considerably since that moment and in some cases now reversed itself. With the makeup of the current Court, I suspect you will lose many of the rights you fought so hard to gain.
Whites never had to fight for their rights. But a certain segment of them made everybody else fight hard for theirs.
I liked your knife analogy.We do on occasion hit a point where we seem to meet in understanding.
I fully agree with and support your statement and perspective here.
We have major problems on the horizon as a nation, it does not serve any of us to be as divided as we have become.
Unfortunately, the blurring of issues and the efforts to divide us over an ever-growing list of differences and grievances is being driven by many of the same powers of persuasion that want to see CBDC, Social Credit and Carbon Taxation become integrated into our daily lives.
I have no desire to buy into their BS. The Russians are not my enemies. Words typed in a Tweet should not be used as means for taking a person's freedom.
The Chinese may be a threat, and if they are, it is because politicians like Biden sold out our interests to them many years ago while financial institutions like BlackRock persuaded our politicians to look the other way as our industrial might was gutted and sent there.
One thing I am certain of, if they are successful in deploying UN Agenda 2030 and Great Reset efforts (and it is hard to imagine they won't be successful at this point) race isn't going to matter... you and I both will be equally oppressed.
After watching this (link) I have to agree with the final conclusion they came up with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Q3v0KTiCU
Neither you nor I "win"... we all lose.
I think it is the system and "the man" who give ample reason for the "vast majority of blacks to believe the system and "the man" don't want them to succeed.
And who propagates that? Not CNN or MSNBC but Fox and Britbart.No IT ISN'T the so-called system nor the so-called man. Many Blacks are INDOCTRINATED to accept mediocrity, if not failure in their socioeconomic lives, Many Black AMERICANS believe that they are where they are because of "systemic racism", "slavery" &/or other excuses which are totally irrelevant today. I am sick of these excuses as a Black woman. There are Black Americans who imbue such negative indoctrination into their children. Many Black Americans are CONTENT where THEY ARE, thank you.
+1000000000000, the modern branding of liberalism or rather LIEberalism is the problem here. My cousin who voted for Biden ( I DIDN'T) now sees what a problem the illegals are & she fears that within a couple of years that social security will be reduced 23%. THAT is her main fear. She is industrious & is poor through NO FAULT of her own.
However, my maternal extended parasitic family in South Carolina exemplifies the lazy, entitled, gimme, & carry me mentality. They have been carried by other relatives for THREE generations.They will be up the creek without a paddle as I refuse to pay for the property THEY LIVE ON. They are an example of ENTITLED people who WON'T help themselves; well, they will be homeless of their own accord soon enough. You are right- earn your way or do without.
There is also Tommy Sotomayor who is on different social media. He came from poverty; however, he pulled himself up. He decries the typical Black victimology mentality.
Still don't get it, do you.
I see the stereotyping of people never stops with MAGAI watched a couple of his videos, he is a bit rough in his delivery, a far cry from Thomas Sowell but he put out some insightful information.
For younger people, the cursing and harshness might get his messaging across in a more effective way."Typical Black victimology" - great example of stereotyping, isn't it.
He can be rough but I love his videos. He doesn't believe in any excuses. He, as a Black man, know that there is racism but he REFUSES to use this as an excuse.
They deliver differently but share similar views.
This is Sowell destroying the concept of Equity and explaining how it brings the destruction of successful society:
https://youtu.be/8WYi-64MejU
Yes, Ken pulled himself up by the bootstraps which should be done. However, there are people who have the gimme, gimme, gimme & you owe me mentality. The latter I thoroughly despise. If more Americans had Ken's mature attitude of being a go getter & having ownership, America would be a MORE PROSPEROUS country, Amen.
Ken, that make sense to me...and that's my path.
As it should be.
We are the Captain's of our own ship, we manifest our own destiny.
You cannot achieve if you never make the attempt.
Its not easy, its not without struggle, its not without failures, and not everyone will succeed.
American society does not push this message to its citizens anymore, it is rapidly becoming more fragmented by increasingly radical diversity.
The Biden Administration has been propagating division between Americans like no Presidency in our lifetimes.
He has labeled at least a third of the nation as "domestic terrorists" and traitors to Democracy.
He has instituted Executive Order after Executive Order exacerbating divide between races and sexes. Creating divides where none existed before in an effort to force societal acceptance of identity over reality. Identifying as a woman does not make you a woman, yet they are trying to force onto society that you accept this mistruth.
This generates further mistrust, and division. Low-trust societies are far less pleasant than others. Expectations that good behavior will be reciprocated diminish.
Add to this the efforts of "Defund the Police" and Police officers being charged with crimes or being attacked and you have growing areas within America that are practically lawless today.
Norms of politeness and respect are disappearing. Anti-social behavior and crimes are becoming common place. Bad business practice and the exploitation of customers or workers is becoming more common.
People grow more selfish. The Government becomes more powerful, and more intrusive, and social standards decline. Compromise becomes harder to achieve, and places, moments and institutions we can all participate in become rarer.
Sociologist Robert Nisbet said:
[When people believe] “community has been lost, there will be a conscious quest for community in the form of association that seems to promise the greatest moral refuge”.
This weakened sense of community leads to the rise of militant identity politics, populism and polarization.
The current efforts to divide Americans against one another has never been greater in my lifetime. This is being fostered by our MSM as well as our politicians, efforts to unite us as Americans is practically non-existent, and this negativity starts at the head of the nation with Biden.God save America! And why is not this prayer becoming not so common again? It's not identified with any race, sex, or identity. Thanks.
Actually, Biden says it after every speech, along with God Save our Troops.
Has it registered on Americans? Or is it just a vote garnering move? Thanks.
It's a VOTE GARNERING move. Biden could care less about America & Americans. He is DESTROYING the middle class.
AGAIN, you are projecting your own feelings on to the rest of us. You are CLEARLY wrong about Biden.
I AM NOT, YOU ARE THE ONE WRONG, NOT I. You are so wrong, you are making Lucifer proud(this is a metaphor).
+10000000000000, thank you for this intelligent presentation. You are truly a thinking person.
"... pretty clear many feel lesser and want reparations?" - NOT SURE what you are getting at. When something is stolen from you, do you fell lesser? Or do you feel like you want justice for what was stolen from you?
"How would this actually help change the mindset of many blacks in America?" - NOT SURE that is the goal of reparations. I thought it was to make somebody deprived of something whole again.
Isn't this what reparations mean? the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.
"the courts required a convicted offender to make financial reparation to his victim"
In this case, the offender was (and still is to a large degree) society itself."I am not sure why or how so many Europeans came to America with nearly nothing yet these people tried, they actually built America into what it is today." - HOW SUCCESSFUL would those people have been if they had been enslaved, not educated, and not taught to read and write. If they had been oppressed and discriminated against for the next 250 years? Somehow I don't think they would have done any better than those who actually had to live through those European-inspired conditions.
BTW, the Jews weren't enslaved in America either nor had to face, until recently, the kind of discrimination and oppression that whites have visited on blacks in this society."Black people should be furious with the lack of good public school education. Yet, you see little from your party offering better education opportunities. " - THEY ARE furious and Democrats have tried to do a lot about it, but conservatives keep putting roadblocks up.
It is no accident that blacks have better educational opportunities you speak of in Blue states than in Red states.https://www.usnews.com/education/best-h … s-by-state
Read and weep. i would rather just put out a fact instead of an opinion on this oneSorry, I couldn't find a table that spoke to the quality of black educational opportunities. Maybe I missed it.
"That reasonable people (our selected Reps) tie future progress" - AND HOW is that the case? What future progress is being denied?
"White America has offered its mea culpa—relative to slavery and past racist behavior, " - I HAVE to disagree. The only thing that has disappeared from the American scene is slavery itself. What allowed it to happen in the first place is alive and well all over the United States and is still embedded in most of our institutions. The only institutions that I can see where real progress has been made is our armed forces and our civil service.To be clear, I said ". . . tie future progress to unrealistic demands for retribution for past sins . . . " I didn't say they denied progress, they just make it harder.
As for the rest, I would reply as I did to Cred. If that doesn't work for you it's okay, you can disagree. Hanging on to the sins of the past is just as harmful to your goals as it is to the Rightwingers' goals.
GASorry, I thought I cut and pasted your quote correctly. Let me try again. The entire quote was:
"That reasonable people (our selected Reps) tie future progress to unrealistic demands for retribution for past sins is nuts. So the folks supporting it must be nuts too. Dangerous nuts, because they are purposely furthering division rather than seeking reconciliation."Yep, that's what I said. I don't see anything about denying progress. I did see the inference (tie to) that their actions hinder progress, and that was the point. Is that what you disagree with?
GA
I made a deliberate decision to stay in the public sector with government service for the reasons that you lay out in your last paragraph. I did not have the time to waste regarding not receiving the opportunities that I have earned on a fair and equitable basis.
It was sort of "banned". It was placed out the reach of K through 5 (of course K - 2 can't read very well yet).
I think the lady said it would indoctrinate these young minds with liberal ideas like equality and trying your best. Worse, the idiot didn't even know who wrote the book, lol. She is on the school board why?
This is Gorman's response: "“So they ban my book from young readers, confuse me with Oprah, fail to specify what parts of my poetry they object to, refuse to read any reviews, and offer no alternatives … Unnecessary book bans like these are on the rise, and we must fight back,” she said."
This is what the lady, Daily Salinas, found objectionable and indoctrinating:
"We’ve braved the belly of the beast.
We’ve learned that quiet isn’t always peace,
And the norms and notions of what ‘just is’
Isn’t always justice.
and
And yet the dawn is ours before we knew it.
Somehow, we do it.
Somehow, we’ve weathered and witnessed
A nation that isn’t broken, but simply unfinished.”
Daily Salinas thought those words would "would cause confusion and indoctrinate children. "
https://www.wpr.org/1-complaint-led-flo … 0children.Yep, it seems agreed that she was an idiot of the zealot genus.
GA
BTW, there are many more than one from which Credence can rightly paint.
* The Freedom Caucus for starters
* Josh Hawley
* Ron Johnson
* Donald Trump
* Ron DeSantis
* Stephan Miller
* Roger Stone
* All those conservatives Mueller indicted
* The Proud Boys
* The Oath Keepers
* The 2%ers (or is it the 3%ers?)
* Kerri Lake
* All those election deniers
* MAGA in general
How long a list would you like?I didn't want a list at all. I was agreeing with Cred relative to this specific issue—the poem.
.
GAHow doas that matter to the American low income earners?
What does American low income earners have to do with extreme right-wing?
And all because of the ranting of one silly rightwing brainwashed lady?
Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes sentenced to 18 years for Jan. 6
A federal judge on Thursday sentenced Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes to 18 years in prison following his conviction on seditious conspiracy charges for his role in the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol.Happily, it just keeps getting worse and worse for Trump. More evidence of obstruction of justice
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/25/politics … index.html
Trump shows classified documents to visitors at Mar-a-lago.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … ot-vpx.cnnThe stolen (land?) property can be easily restored. They's no qustion about that. Any other form of compesation, say money to the chiildren of the original aborigins is insincere. The best compesation should be land, two or more miles away from the perimeter of the stolen or confiscated land, even if it were conquest. Lands purchased from the natives that is 'signed, sealed, and delivered' will not met compesation.
I bet you wouldn't say that if the white oppressors in your country stole your great-grandfathers land.
Thank you. 100 years ago, the 'whites' stole my country and land. Now that were independent, that statement I made is as a result of that. Google Port Harcourt Aborigins(my forbearers land). Google Opobo Land Reparation. I hope it helps somehow? Thanks again.
Now MAGA has a new crook to embrace.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/politics … index.htmlWOW!!!! Now Even TRUMP is saying he can't declassify information after he leaves office - a according to a new recording of him say just that to people he wanted to show a classified document he took to Bedminster.
Jack Smith has this tape and Trump has no defense left (although I suspect the MAGA here will invent one)
Smith needs to indict him and get it over with so we can throw his ass where it belongs - in jail.
https://www.wdsu.com/article/10-year-ol … t/38649182Re-examined the given link. It relates to a 10 year old boy, hit by a stray bullet. I'm still wondering and curious.
Boy, Trump can't stop getting himself into trouble.
1. Twice impeached
2. One term
3. Indicted for a bunch of state felonies in New York
4. Indicted for a bunch of federal felonies in Florida for exposing national secrets
5. About to be indicted in August in GA for trying to rig their election
6. About to be indicted for causing the Jan 6 insurrection
7. Found guilty of sexual assault and defamation in New York
8. Is being sued (amended) for defaming E. Jean Carroll AGAIN on CNN after she won her case for defamation
9. Will be tried in federal court for defamation
10. Will be tried in DC court for three different suits by victims of his Jan 6 insurrection
Known/probable trial dates:
* October 2023 for the NY civil suit for fraud
* December 2023 for the federal documents indictment
* January 15, 2024 for the federal defamation case
* January 29, 2024 for a federal fraud case concerning a pyramid scheme
* March 25, 2024 for the Manhattan felonies
Oh yeah, he admitted on an audio tape he shared classified information to people who didn't have security clearances and testimony from an aide will establish he shared classified information with her as well.
He has been a busy guy and yet MAGA sees nothing wrong with ANY of this and still want him to put America in danger.I don't think that if Donald Trump, had not shot for the presidency again, all these issues can be a challenge against him. But being a popular figure, many idiots, who had sold their souls to nothing are bent on undermining his re-run! Let him be tried. The world is watching.
They were all in motion prior to his announcing.
Majority of the charges were dormant back then?
Nope, all were active investigations. Trump announced hoping to stop the investigations - it didn't work. And they are investigating him because the evidence in each case strongly suggests he broke the law. And in America, nobody, not even narcissistic, egomaniacal presidents such as Trump, are above the law.
It's America. Which Americann president has ever be convicted, tried, and found guilty? And yes, no one's above the law.,
Only one American President has violated the law like Trump has and that is Nixon. He would have been impeached but he resigned instead and Ford pardoned him (unfortunately) for his crimes.
I knew about Nixongate or Watergate, when I was 17 yrs. Biden would have copy Ford?
Why should he? Ford should not have pardoned Nixon.
But Gerand Ford, did pardon richard Nixon, in the Watergate spying. America politics, shouldn't be about being enemies all the time. Abbe, succinctly put it thus: 'With malice to none, and charity for all'.
There is also a saying, "You do the crime, you serve the time". You forget, Trump tried (is still trying) to overthrow an election and the gov't. Next to murder (people died in his insurrection) and rape, I am not sure if anything else is worse.
'You do the crime, you serve the time'. Who said that? And, I gave credit to Pence, for putting down the insurrection, otherwise, would biden, be President? The stories that transpired on the Capitol, varied in tale, and calls for audenfication. I've no doubt that if Trump, should be tried for his so called many crimes, his innocency in some of them also exists, until he's proved guilty.
Pence Did Not put down the insurrection. Where do you get that idea? What Pence did was follow the law and not let Trump pressure him into breaking it.
In one sense, Pence Caused the insurrection because if he had done Trump's bidding, then the insurrection would be over and evil would have won. By following the law, Trump's army took over the Capitol.Did not Pence echored. 'It's all over' even if he didn't follow the law? Even if not to his boss Trump? Even to MS Pelosi, and cohort? Or to the world for biden to step into the Oval Office? Seriously, that's my infer idea. Now, where's your answer to my question? Much thanks.
If you are talking about the consequences for committing crimes, it has been around in America for a very long time. Another way it is said is "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".
https://www.martinebarrat.com/you-do-th … ew%20York.
https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-phr … -time-mean
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/if_you_c … _the_crime
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm … story.html
As to what Pence allegedly said, I have no idea what it means.I'm sorry. Can I infer you're an American under the circumstance?
Under which circumstances? Yes, I am an American.
If you had'nt not answered my question in a positive frame of mind, I would have infer you're a Russian, wrth a pure Russian mindset.
Come on, with all the negative things I write about Putin?
Where? Are you not a bidiener? But you know that biden is a pupet of Russia and China. Americans no longer puts up with ihm.
LOL, you need to stop reading that Right-wing media whose whole purpose in life is to brainwash you.
Biden is turning out to be one of the best presidents America has had.
BTW - it is Putin and Xi who Trump looks up to as role models. He acts just like them.LOL! Biden trying to be one of the best presidents America has had? LOL! Why are you trying to brainwash me, with a puppet minded president? Are you looking at the poll thirtyfive? Trump, is leading. That tells us being the best president, is failing. Putin and Xi are godly friends, against America expansions? And biden can't help it, when Puttin invaded Ukraine.
You seem to be very good at promoting Putin's propaganda - just like the Right-wing media does. Is that intentional or coincidental?
Not a coincidence. Everything I read about Putin, is negative. Exception is the fact that America, or biden, help inflamed the embers of the Russia-Ukraine war lately.
Trump is accused and is involved in crimes far more serious that those of Nixon, so the circumstances are not the same.
Actually so is Joe Biden. Keyword accused. If It is proven Biden was taking bribe money from foreign Nations it would be pure treason. Again, no argument here, at this point all are allegations. However, Congress seems to be putting together damming evidence in the way of Bank documents, LLC documents, emails, as well as personal testimonies from whistleblowers. Congress is working to obtain any and all information that the FBI collected evidence during their long investigation.
In my view, the evidence is very condemning, its made up of first-hand accounts and pure records. This kind of evidence is hard to dispute.When Biden is indicted or otherwise formally charged with crimes, then I will listen.
Being formally indicted is beyond being just accused without proof which you always say that we should wait for.My first paragraph --- "Actually so is Joe Biden. Keyword accused. If It is proven Biden was taking bribe money from foreign Nations it would be pure treason. Again, no argument here, at this point all are allegations. "
Enough said on my part. But always entertaining to watch my words twisted, and taken out of context. I see my thoughts set a few hairs in a blaze.They can allege all they want, that is their job as the opposition. The difference is there is a mountain of evidence behind each and every accusation against Trump.
As we saw with Hunter Biden, there was nothing there, there other than lying on a form for purchasing a gun, which for any other person would have resulted in no charge at all, and paying for his taxes late. Even that would have not resulted in any action against a normal person because he paid them. BUT, because he was a Biden, they had to find something to charge him with in order to show no favoritism.
No, Biden is not. Why do you write such things?
And No, it would not be treason (otherwise, you are calling Trump a traitor for doing what you falsely accuse Biden of doing.) Who was Biden "aiding and abetting" and where is the war that is required?
The case for treason is much, much stronger against Trump for siding with Putin regarding Russia's attack on our election system in 2016. What Trump did on that stage standing next to Putin is the definition of "aiding and abetting" an enemy who was attacking America as he spoke.BTW, as I mentioned before when you presented this so-called evidence, the ones you shared contained no allegations nor evidence of any wrong doing.
OMG, the circumstances may not be the same...D' you hear? But both committed crimes, including biden. Why is Trump, being mostly targeted?
Biden is guilty of nothing and he stands accused of nothing by any credible person. The only people flinging false charges are highly partisan MAGA-types.
But there is jaywalking and there is murder , they are both crimes but are they the same?
Sorry. All crimes may not carry the same sentense. Did the law punished jaywaling and let murderer go?
Sorry. All crimes may not carry the same sentense. Did the law punish the jaywalker, and let the murder go free?
That has a lot to do as to why he lost to Carter in 1976.
This is an analysis of what may in store for America if MAGA gets its way.
"
As the United States marks its 247th birthday Tuesday, questions about how many more the nation will celebrate in its current form have become ominously relevant.
Possibly not since the two decades before the Civil War has America faced as much pressure on its fundamental cohesion. The greatest risk probably isn’t a repeat of the outright secession that triggered the Civil War, though even that no longer seems entirely impossible in the most extreme scenarios. More plausible is the prospect that the nation will continue its drift into two irreconcilable blocs of red and blue states uneasily trying to occupy the same geographic space.
“I can’t recall a time when we’ve had such fundamental friction between the states on such important issues,” says Donald Kettl, former dean and professor emeritus of the University of Maryland’s School of Public Policy and author of the 2020 book, “The Divided States of America.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/04/politics … index.html
Wrapped around this is a phenomenon called "Whitelash" which is a certain segment of white America that can't accept that times are a-changing. More formally, it is -
"White backlash, also known as white rage[1][2] or whitelash, is related to the politics of white grievance, and is the negative response of some white people to the racial progress of other ethnic groups in rights and economic opportunities, as well as their growing cultural parity, political self-determination, or dominance."
Pulitzer Prize winning journalist just released a book that takes a look back in American history to show this is not a new phenomenon but a constant reaction to the ever growing push to have a more equal society. Wesley Lowery's American Whitelash: A Changing Nation and the Cost of Progress
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_bac … 0dominanceReagan's administration is the third most indicted.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … p-reagan-/I didn't realize that. The Grant and Harding administrations had many issues as well, although I don't think either president was guilty of much, if anything.
More fallout from Trump's insurrection. There is a book titled something like "Everyone Trump Touches, Dies". Well, another of his "lawyers" gave up his law license rather than be disciplined by the GA bar. It is unknown if he is a subject of the DOJ's Jan 6th investigation.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/05/politics … index.htmlDOJ reveals more reasons why they searched Trump's villa for stolen and classified documents.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/05/politics … index.htmlAs time goes on, more and more people, like this lady, will report they have been brainwashed by Trump and the Right.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … 60-vpx.cnn
Maybe some here will find that out about themselves.Here is an interesting little statistic that may help explain why conservatives are getting so desperate - they are disappearing and becoming less relevant.
With each generation, fewer and fewer identify as Republican (which today stands for very conservative). On the other hand, Democrats have remained sort of constant while independents have grown.
SILENT GENERATION (1926 - 1945): R - 39%, I - 26%, D - 35%
BABY BOOMERS (1946 - 1964): R - 35%, I - 33%, D - 32%
GENERATION X (1965 - 1980): R - 30%, I - 44%, D - 27%
MILLENNIALS (1981 - 1996): R - 21%, I - 52%, D - 27%
GENERATION Z (1997 - 2012): R - 17%, I - 52%, D - 31%No longer the new kids on the block, Millennials have moved firmly into their 20s and 30s, and a new generation is coming into focus. Generation Z – diverse and on track to be the most well-educated generation yet – is moving toward adulthood with a liberal set of attitudes and an openness to emerging social trends.
On a range of issues, from Donald Trump’s presidency to the role of government to racial equality and climate change, the views of Gen Z – those ages 13 to 21 in 2018 – mirror those of Millennials.1 In each of these realms, the two younger generations hold views that differ significantly from those of their older counterparts. Gen z looks to be angry, will they burn it all down? Seems likely
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren … al-issues/
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren … al-issues/Add the following article with revealing graphics of the impact of Millennials and Gen Z on the future of American Politics. Worth a skim with pondering. First, a quote from the article:
"
Generation Z, comprised of Americans born since 1997, is the largest generation in American history. It’s also the most diverse, so much so that some have proposed that it be called the “plurals” to reflect the racial and ethnic pluralism that will make Gen Z the first majority 'nonwhite generation'."
https://www.governing.com/now/how-much- … n-outcomes"These young voters care more about policy than party, according to experts." - That is good to see.
I am also discouraged to see there are only a little more than 2 million people my age left in America.
Great article. It shows our youth are getting it and rejecting the politics of inclusion. DeSantis and Trump don't stand a chance with them. The only problem is they don't vote a lot.
They may not vote a lot now, but that might well change with Republicans attempt to thwart their participation from colleges and universities and the the voices, regardless of how faint, that want to raise the voting age.
A sleeping giant just may have been awakened....
Your sources are old. So much has changed, literally daily.
It is the trend that is important here. With each generation, the Party of exclusion is getting weaker.
Gallup, I only use credible sources,
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/08/us/baby- … index.html
Interesting how we see so many independents. Clear that we see Dems and Republican neck and neck. Looks like we have a huge majority very unsatisfied with either party.
31 and17 are neck in neck? Not in my book.
It is pretty clear from the chart, that support for Republicans are down, with the increasing youth of the voting block. The numbers for the Dems, not change, or change little in comparison, with independents rising markedly. Those rising numbers for the independents had to have been siphoned from what was once GOP supporters among older voting blocks,
I will concede that most of the growth in independents comes from who who the Republicans excluded from the party. I was a liberal Republican until about midway through the Reagan administration and then the ever more dominant social conservatives showed me the Democratic Party more reflected my ideals.
Interesting to see how the rise of independents clearly started during Obama's time in office and plateaued on Trump's time in office, and at this point polls claim independents at this point are at an all-time high of 49%.
"In 2023, 25% of people identified as Democrat, 25% as Republican and 49% Independent. We spend our days captivated by people with the most power and the biggest mouths. But it turns out a rising number of Americans want something else — political independence"
https://www.axios.com/2023/04/17/poll-a … n-democrat
The trend of discontent appears to have developed under Obama, plateaued, or lost steam under Trump, but has skyrocketed at this point. Can't help but think many Americans are abandoning both parties or are really displeased with Biden.Actually, if you look Carefully at the chart you will find three things. The most dramatic rise in independents was between 1957 and 1972, 2) the next rise began in 2000 and not 2009, and 3) the rise ended in 2011. That last rise corresponds with Bush's Iraq War and later, failed economy.
Yes, it is interesting, all periods that Americans were unhappy with the government. So maybe indicates a third party might take off at some point if things get worse. I mean 49% -- that is saying something loud and clear.
I agree, but the way our system and laws are set up tend to work against it. For example, the Citizen's United political contribution lack of limits will kill any chance of an independent gaining traction at the national level.
The only chance for independents to gain traction the way I see it is from the ground up. But then gerrymandering probably dooms that to failure.
For anything like what you have in mind to work, I think, is to go to a parliamentarian system. And I can't conceive of that happening.
Another highly, highly unlikely way of solving the issue is for Congress, via the Article I powers dictate to the states how they will, to some extent, conduct their elections.
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Yep, the stats bode ill regarding the acceptance of Republicans/conservative candidates and ideas by genZ and millennials.
What is it that they say? "you gotta make a way for the young folks"
"Out with the old and in with the new."For those interested in Party Affiliation historical trends by Gallup take a peek at the link following. The 2nd graph begins with 1988 going to 2022. Most will know who was president and which party held the House or the Senate to offer more history as to why the trend. I don't, so any feedback would be cool. Of consequence is the rise of the Independents.
U.S. Party Preferences Evenly Split in 2022 After Shift to GOP
https://news.gallup.com/poll/467897/par … t-gop.aspxThose two graphs are very telling.
It looks like Bush's recession and Obama's election started turning Democrats and Republicans into Independents, both parties suffered enormous losses of support.
In 2005, Republicans started losing significant support. In 2009, the Democrats followed suit I look at 2023, and the trend continues 25% Republican, 25% Democratic, 50% Independent. That is not what I was expecting. Would love to see the details behind it.
The big picture here is that the quetion of an Independent Party taking off, and challenging both the Republican and Democratic Parties, is an all American affair. Critically, I can hardly contribute meaningful here. I would fall into a tangent that would only spelt ignorance and a laughter. Critically again, what the Senate determine after a State solute an issue, can even be challenged by the State in a competent court.
Well the next Trump indictment should drop in about 30 days now the the Altlanta DA has empaneled her Grand Jury.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics … index.htmlNo truer words have ever been written - "“House Republicans will attack the FBI for having had the audacity to treat Donald Trump like any other citizen. "
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/politics … index.htmlAnd I listened to them cheapen themselves this morning as they pummeled Gray.
Just another morsel of agony? Perhaps not....
---------
"Trump's lawyers asked Cannon to reject the Justice Department's proposed December trial date and postpone it indefinitely, citing his presidential campaign.
"President Trump is running for president of the United States and is currently the likely Republican Party nominee. This undertaking requires a tremendous amount of time and energy, and that effort will continue until the election on November 5, 2024," Trump lawyers Chris Kise and Todd Blanche wrote in the filing.
Former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who served on special counsel Bob Mueller's team, questioned Trump's motive behind the filing.
"If you are innocent and want to be vindicated, you ask for a trial before the election," he tweeted. "If you are guilty and want to run on victimization, without being undermined by facts and law, you don't."
The New York Times' Maggie Haberman reported that Trump's lawyers are "blunt in private that they see winning the election" as "the key to making the case against him disappear."
"The speedy trial right lies with the accused, who in this case is explicit that he doesn't want one," Haberman tweeted.
"This is a very telling moment for Judge Cannon, and she has an obvious move. One party has submitted a schedule; the other hasn't. She should just adopt the one schedule that is in front of her. There's no halfway point to choose, which is part of [Trump's] brazen strategy," he added.
CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen, who served as Democratic counsel during Trump's first impeachment, argued that Trump's request seeking an indefinite delay is "contrary to law."
-----------------------------
Trump is stalling and cannot be allowed to get away with it. As it was mentioned, Judge Cannon needs to be "bitch slapped" is she provides Trump and his team any unmerited favoritism, mis-stepping, again.So far, she hasn't misstepped, but given the totally biased way she ruled before, I don't trust her to continue to do an honest job.
What is wrong with MAGA? Why do they hate America so much?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/13/politics … index.htmlMAGA does hate America, by advocating and supporting concepts and actions of its hoodlums that can well be the undoing of a multiracial diverse democracy that they all basically loathe but pretend otherwise.
You mean like BLM, that promotes riots and violence? Like the Sacramento mayor that was in the front line of a riot, breaking down gates and trespassing on private property? Like a President that refuses to consider any but black women for jobs? Like legislators proposing and voting to pay people for being black? MAGA hoodlums like that, undoing a multiracial diverse democracy?
You know you are very wrong (but say it anyway). BLM does not promote riots and violence - that is left to far-right MAGA and criminals and those who distort facts.
Hey, you might be being somewhat hyperbolic. I would guess you referring to the Jan 6th protest that turned violent. These types of protests turned bad and have gone on for decades. You do remember "The Summer Of Lover"? No need to offer instruction, and death some Democratic cities suffered.
Perhaps we that want to make America great again are tired of the status quo in government and are not about to see our Country fall due to a destructive left agenda.
Do you really think that people that prefer Democract will sit back and see it fall? Maybe think again. Just keepen it realWhy did you ignore that Jan 6th was a planned attack on our Capital perpetrated by Donald Trump and carried out by his believers?
Initially, I thought the same as you, that is was a big protest gone wrong. But the Republican testimony from the Select Committee and the facts brought forth in the various sedition trials make it perfectly what happened was intended to happen in order to keep Trump in office illegally.
Democrats are doing everything they legally can to stop MAGA from destroying us all with their destructive right agenda.
MAGA has gotten so outlandish they make no secret they hate gays, Blacks, women and anybody else who is not white, male, and Protestant.
By there own words, they oppose the meaning of the Statue of Liberty and our Declaration of Independence. They say directly that an inclusive society is a bad thing - why else would they try so hard to make it unequal, less diverse, and less inclusive?
The likely criminal Trump is really squirming now - asking the court to change their previous ruling against him.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/politics … index.htmlMAGA does not hate America. They are simply a group of people who have followed the wrong people, been proven wrong about so much, for so long, they have finally painted themselves into a corner that it would take too much humility to find the way out of, and they would rather continue to damage their country than admit they've been wrong - not matter how obvious are the facts.
Here is what I feel is damaging America. I am a Republican and support a pro-America first agenda at this point in our nation's growth...
In my view, MAGA and Republicans share much of the same view. and it does not correlate with --- " simply a group of people who have followed the wrong people, been proven wrong about so much, for so long, they have finally painted themselves into a corner that it would take too much humility to find the way out of, and they would rather continue to damage their country than admit they've been wrong - not matter how obvious are the facts."
Let me offer my thoughts on why many Americans see it differently than the view you shared. My view of liberal Democratic ideologies has led me to feel our country is in trouble. In my view, the wrong people are our current administration. I am not listening to the wrong people, in fact, I am living with the mistakes of the Biden administration. It may be wise to consider what this administration is responsible for, and what ideologies Democrats in office support. here are just a small few.
First, let's consider the situation with our extreme border crisis that has occurred in the last two years. Supporting open borders can have negative consequences for national security, economic stability, and social cohesion. without proper border controls, there has been an increase in illegal immigration, drug trafficking, and potential threats to public safety.
Under some Demacratic run states free drug paraphernalia is being distributed. I argue that providing drug addicts with paraphernalia will enable and perpetuate substance abuse issues.
Let's consider the Inflation that the current administration has provided. In my view, liberal Democratic policies, such as expansive government spending, and burdensome regulations have contributed to inflationary pressures most Americans are living under today. Excessive government intervention and deficit spending has led to a devaluation of currency and higher prices for goods and services, ultimately impacting the overall economy.
And now we need to consider Biden's hope for Government Payment of Student Loans. I argue that using taxpayer money to pay off student loans will be seen as unfair, by many Americans. As it will ultimately place the burden on taxpayers -- who may not have benefited directly from higher education.
This administration appears to be weaponizing government agencies. There are allegations in regard to this administration that used government agencies to further political agendas, which would be, in my view a misuse of power. I can only argue that weaponizing agencies could, and have undermined the impartiality and integrity of public institutions, which as polls show, has worked to compromise public trust.
Many Americans have a concern over the cognitive ability of Biden. Some citizens express concerns about his cognitive abilities to perform his job. His cognitive state may hinder his ability to effectively govern our Nation.
I feel liberal Democratic ideologies clash with traditional American values and principles. Some policies and proposals challenge the sanctity of individual liberties, free markets, and limited government, potentially undermining the foundations of our very Constitution.
My thoughts represent my perspective, and I am sure there are counterarguments to every issue I have shared. I feel I have added some constructive dialogue. Hopefully, some will show the willingness to consider a different viewpoint.Well said. Liberal policies and demands have driven the country, and continue to drive the country and the people, towards a future that is not in the best interests of either.
I fully agree, and I think that the other side needs to hear some of our views. Simply their feeling we are a group of people who have followed the wrong people for so long, and that we have finally painted ourselves into a corner... and that we would rather continue to damage their country than admit being wrong.
We have the devastating facts of what Democrats are doing to tear the country apart. And to repeat your sentiment --- The path we are on is not in the best interest of the
people, and is destroying America.
Does your perspective need to coincide with the facts that are known? If they don't, please inform us.
Otherwise, what facts do you use to support the perspective that the Democrats have a so-called "open border". Based on the Trump rules that Biden still enforces, it seems to me his claims of "closed borders" are true..
Border Crisis - 1) What happened to that deluge when Title 42 went away? 2) It is still conservative laws that are in place, not liberal ones, that control the border. Biden got rid of only the inhumane Trump ones.
Drug Paraphernalia - I couldn't find one state, Republican or Democrat or Independent that distributes such items. In fact, only Alaska doesn't have laws making it illegal. The very conservative CATO institute published this suggesting that being like Alaska may help reduce HARM. https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/dr … ase-states
Did CATO change your perspective?
Inflation - the last I looked, presidents don't provide inflation. What facts support your view that they do. Also, inflation has now decreased almost to fed levels.
Expansive government spending - In my view, both the Democrats and the Republicans are equally responsible for the size of the public debt. In fact, the facts support the notion that conservatives do a much poorer job of managing our economy over the last 250 years. Also, to inform my perspective, I consider the Reasons for large increases in deficit spending and not just the fact that it increased. For example, the biggest driver behind our current debt load is WW II, followed by WW I. Important causes were Reagan's battle to win the cold war, Obama's recovery efforts after the Bush recession, Bush II and Trump's tax cuts, Bush's Iraq war, and Trump/Biden's effort to stave off the impact of Covid.
Student Loan - I actually agree that student loans should not be outright forgiven. Although I might point out that taxpayer money is not being "spent" to pay of student debt. That money has already been spent years ago and was not going to be collected. Now, do I have a problem with making the interest payments zero? No I don't.
Weaponizing Gov't - Yes, Trump actually did weaponize gov't, but your perspective that Biden has is not based on fact. It may be your view, but it is not evidence-based. Now, who is weaponizing gov't? MAGA is in the form of the House Republicans. That view is evidence-based. Can you imagine, they are calling for the defunding of the FBI and DOJ (they haven't said if it is total or not, but they have said they want to cut their budget in retaliation for their false narrative that the largely Republican FBI is trying to harm Republicans).
Cognition - Define many and from which Party? My view is that most Americans do not believe Biden has a cognition problem and his actions as President certainly don't support that view.
Ideologies - Yes, real conservatives say that they believe in "sanctity of individual liberties, free markets, and limited government" but their actions belie that. MAGA, on the other hand do not believe in any of those things, The facts say this, however: conservatives believe in individual liberty UNTIL it runs counter to their Christian beliefs. Conservatives believe in limited government UNTIL they don't need it to (look at what DeSantis has done to Florida or all those laws telling women what to do with their bodies). But yes, conservatives believe in a free-market even in cases where it hurts American consumers and benefits the big corporations.
But, all that said, yes, it is a fair view to say that liberal Democratic ideologies do clash with traditional conservative American values.
To be go back to the beginning. If you want me to consider your viewpoint regardless of whether it is evidence-based or not, I can do that. But, I reserve the right to challenge a view when it asserts facts that aren't true.I don't respect how you communicate. I will pass
A most reasonable counter to the views of many conservatives and I concur with your position, here.
Since it is reasonable, some here will take it as a personal insult and refuse to provide evidence-based rational.
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Careful now, you are offering evidence-based information to support your opinion.
This black-sheep and embarrassment to the Kennedy name is as loony-tunes as many of his MAGA admirers. Can you imagine any Democrat or Independent believing him?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/15/politics … index.htmlDeleted
I wonder if he also believes 9/11 is the work of God against an unbelieving people?
Do you ever stop insulting people, that are mere strangers to you? Ever?
How is that an insult? If Kennedy did say and support such an idea as shown in the article that he attests to, I could find many colorful metaphors to describe him that would be less pleasant which decorum prevents me from using here.
There is no way that he could be considered by the Democratic Party.I did not make mention of the CNN article or make mention of Kennedy's beliefs about the "forever chemical" that is in much of America's water. I was referring to the fact he called Kennedy a "Loony tune".
I always smile when a liberal will find it sociably acceptable to call someone an insulting name, just because they can...
I would not have had a problem with his view. I objected to the words he choose. I mean imagine if I would have shared my view of ECOS off the wall comment, and chosen inappropriate words? I mean, yes, some certainly come to mind when I read his comment.
Hey to each their own.
I am not interested in dishing dirt about someone I know little about. I will leave that to others here on HPs
Did you ever wonder why ECO is banned so frequently? He freely insults others."I always smile when a liberal will find it sociably acceptable to call someone an insulting name, just because they can... "
And conservatives don't? My attacks are not personal. But I reserve the right to attack ideas that I don't agree with and challenge opponents to convince me why I am wrong. Kennedy by taking these positions, opens himself to disparaging comments.You know, it is interesting that such a big deal about me getting banned. Have you noticed it doesn't happen when two specific individuals don't show up on these forums?
I have suspected as much , but as I am pretty resilient and coated in teflon, I am not an easy target.
It is funny that only the Right threaten this because they do not approve of your content. Most of my kindred on this forum who leans left have certainly not been particularly any more offensive, if not less so than the other side. Dissent has always been a concept feared by the Right.That is why conservatives are associated with authoritarianism - can't stand dissent. And that includes so-called "leftist" governments. The moment they put on the mantle of dictator (such as Maduro or Putin or Xi or Un) they are no longer "leftists" and are in the same category as Victor Orban, Ron DeSantis, Marie Le Pen, or Trump).
"That is why conservatives are associated with authoritarianism "
This seems odd, and I can't agree, just due to conservatives/Republicans having a very long reputation for smaller government. The Demacrats on the other hand are known for big government. As of late, it seems like Dems are in overdrive to dictate so many woke changes, As well this administration gives the impression that they use our government agencies at will to do their bidding.
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At least we have reason to describe an idea in such a fashion. Conservatives seem to think stuttering (or whatever that reporter had) is fair game for insults.
Yes, I feel the same. I feel insulting one personally is uncalled for.
I always smile when a conservative will find it sociably acceptable to call someone an insulting name, just because they can... e.g. senile, dementia, or the fun Trump made of that reporter with a physical disability.
I have a right to my view... The words I used are certainly appropriate.
Loony tune --not so muchAh, I see. It is OK to call somebody senile when it isn't true but not loony-tunes when it is. I get it now.
Well, I noted your view --- It is my view after following this president's demeanor in public in regard to his speeches or his on he runs responses to the media, and his very inappropriate actions such as selling hair, as well as getting into others' personal space with inappropriate uses of his hands. I find he is not responsible for his actions due to his problems with senility.
If I were to use derogatory terminology or borrow your words, call him a loony tune, or use my words to give my impression - he is a man that is aging poorly and become very verbally inappropriate, and physically inappropriate due to, in my view, problems with senility.
Sharlee, the words you use are appropriate only because they are the words YOU use.
To repeat --- I always smile when a liberal will find it sociably acceptable to call someone an insulting name, just because they can...
I would not have had a problem with your view. I objected to the word you chose. One can certainly share a VIEW that is derogatory by choosing socially acceptable appropriate words, which I try to do when offering derogatory comments.
In the case of Biden, yes I could refer to him as a loony tune. I prefer cognitively unfit, or demented, or he is senile. See how much better those terms are than loony tune?Then why do you keep insulting Biden when it isn't true? At least with Jr., his beliefs fit the bill.
ESO, this man is a disgrace and he expects to be taken seriously as a Democratic candidate for President. If his father were still living he would be quite ashamed and embarrassed that such an individual could bear the Kennedy name, just as you have said.
One of the great things about our nation that MAGA is trying to destroy is that even as unhinged as Jr is and mentally ill Trump is, they can still become President if they can con enough people into believing them.
Our founding fathers made it very clear during the Constitutional Convention that this is one of the things they feared most - people being conned by demagogs. It is why there was no direct election of the president to start with. Less wise people later on changed that.
They designed the system such that there was a place for demagoguery in the House but would be tempered by a more wise Senate. Well, the Senate killed that idea with the filibuster rule.
Sharlee: You are not being "belittled" just because you are being disagreed with.
I have tried to avoid your comments, for my own reasons. But I do make efforts to be polite if I am addressed by name. So... please don't take offense if I pick and choose what I respond to.
What an odd comment. I don't think I have made any claims of feeling belittled. I have claimed I have had personal insults here at times. But feeling belittled? No, I don't think I have complained of that, nor have I felt belittled. When personally insulted I just consider who is doing the insulting as not well-mannered. This is a political chat, one would expect to be disagreed with. I mean in reality why would I care about being disagreed with?
Curious -- So, what was this comment of yours all about? Such an odd comment.
Back from long vacation but now have to recover from Covid.
I Trump is being arrested again today, not in New York or Florida or D.C. this time, but in Fulton County Georgia.
He now has almost 100 felony charges against him in total. Happily, at least in terms of seeing Justice served, he will be convicted of many of those. Why? Because many of them are "slam dunks" as the saying goes.
The felonies in Florida and Georgia are easy to prove. In the former case, all the prosecution needs to show is "was Trump knowingly in possession of documents he wasn't supposed to have"? In the latter case, all they have to show is did Trump lie in his attempt to get the Georgia Secretary of State to break his oath of office?
If the RICO charges in the George case is proved, Trump WILL go to jail for at least five years.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ … index.htmlSo many friends and family have caught the virus this spring and summer. All vaccinated thank goodness, but still no fun.
Take care.Thank you Kathleen and Bobbi for the will wishes. It seems to have killed my appetite, which is a good thing, lol. I lost 10 pounds during my last episode. Hope it happens again.
Get well soon. I do hope you are feeling much better.
Bobbi PurvisTrump is now inmate No. P01135809. His crimes are beginning to come home to roost.
LOL, how dumb can lying Fox News and conservatives get using a song that was critical of the politicians on the debate stage as a theme song.?
The author of the song was upset they co-opted his song to mean something it didn't. Here is what conservatives are so happy about - that Pence, Haley, Ramaswamy, Scott, DeSantis, and the others are [b]politicians who are "obese", welfare recipients that that are "milking" the system, and are "minors on an island".
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/25/entertai … index.html"Fox News anchor and co-host of the first Republican primary debate Martha MacCallum defended using the conservative anthem “Rich Men North of Richmond” as a talking point after the songwriter criticized GOP presidential candidates Friday.
“The reason we asked 8 GOP candidates, after playing ‘Rich Men North of Richmond’ and pointing out that DC is just 100 miles N of Richmond was to say, are you on the stage part of the problem that he sings about? or part of the solution?” MacCallum wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. “He sings of people who are deeply frustrated and don’t want anyone trying to control them. It would be a good way to start a Dem or GOP debate, to spark an important conversation.”
Perhaps Fox hit home by playing the song -- the song clearly depicts all of the "rich men north of Richmond" Fox's follow-up question clearly asked those on the stage -- " are you on the stage part of the problem that he sings about? or part of the solution?”
"That song has nothing to do with Joe Biden, you know, it’s a lot bigger than Joe Biden,” Anthony said. “That song is written about the people on that stage.”
According to a different YouTube video Anthony posted earlier this month, the crooner does not identify with a political party, instead finding himself politically “dead center.”
“I sit pretty dead center down the aisle on politics and always have,” Anthony said. “It seems like, you know, both sides serve the same master, and that master is not someone of any good to the people of this country.”
Anthony has frequently expressed his frustration with politics, telling Fox News this week in the wake of his newfound fame that America’s diversity is being used as a “political tool.”
“We’ve got to go back to the roots of what made this country great in the first place, which was our sense of community — I mean, we are the melting pot of the world and that’s what makes us strong is our diversity — we need to learn how to harness that and appreciate it and not use it as a political tool to keep everyone separate from each other,” he said."
"Later Friday, he tweeted: “I. Don’t. Support. Either. Side. Politically. Not the left, not the right. Im about supporting people and restoring local communities. Now, go breathe some fresh air and relax. Please?
I’m not worth obsessing over, I promise. Go spend time with your loved ones.”
All quotes source Politico https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/2 … e-00113095I take the words and perspective of the author, Oliver Anthony over anything Fox might say.
Rick Wilson, a respected Republican strategist, wrote a book titled Everything Trump Touches, Dies. In it he describes how many people in Trump's orbit have gotten in legal or ethical trouble. That was a couple of years ago, so now he needs to write a sequel.
Let's look at who we are talking about:
- Michael Cohen, personal lawyer, indicted, convicted
- Michael Flynn, National Security Advisor, fired, indicted, convicted
- Steve Bannon, Senior WH Advisor, fired, indicted, convicted
- Tom Barrack, Inauguration Chair, indicted, acquitted
- Elliot Broidy, fundraiser, indicted, convicted
- Rick Gates, Deputy Campaign Manager, indicted, convicted
- Paul Manafort, Campaign Manager, indicted, convicted
- George Nadar, Foreign Policy Advisor, indicted, convicted
- George Papadopoulos, Campaign Advisor, indicted, convicted
- Roger Stone, Advisor, indicted, convicted
- Allen Weisselberg, CFO, indicted, convicted
- The Trump Organization, indicted, convicted and under other indictments
- Peter Navarro, Asst to the President, indicted
- 1,000 plus insurrectionists indicted of which at least 648 were convicted so far.
- Ken Kurson, Speechwriter, indicted
- Brad Parscale, Campaign Manager, arrested
- Imaad Zuberi, Fundraiser, indicted, convicted
- Lev Parnas, Fundraiser, indicted, convicted
- Igor Fruman, Fundraiser, indicted, convicted
- Rep Chris Collins (R-NY), close to Trump, indicted, convicted
- Rep Duncan Hunter (R-CA), close to Trump, indicted, convicted
- Sam Patton, worked with Trump Campaign, indicted, convicted
- Ryan Zinke, Sec Interior, resigned after being investigated for misuse of funds
- Rudy Giuliani, personal lawyer, disbarred, indicted, awaiting trial
- Sidney Powell, campaign lawyer, facing disbarment, indicted, awaiting trial
- Mark Meadows, Chief of Staff, indicted, facing trial
- Carlos de Oliveira, Trump gardener, indicted, facing trial
- Walt Nauta, Trump bodyman, indicted, facing trial
- John Eastman, Lawyer, facing disbarment, indicted, facing trial
- Kenneth Chesebro, Lawyer, indicted, facing trial
- Jeffrey Clark, DOJ Official, facing disbarment, indicted, facing trial
- Jenna Ellis, Lawyer, indicted, facing trial
- Ray Smith, Lawyer, indicted, facing trial
- Robert Cheeley, Lawyer, indicted, facing trial
- Michael Roman, WH Aide, indicted, facing trial
- David Shafer, Chair of GA GOP, indicted, facing trial
- Shawn Still, GA fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Stephen Lee, Pastor, indicted, facing trial
- Harrison Floyd, Dir. Black Voices for Trump, indicted, facing trial
- Travian Kutti, Publicist, indicted, facing trial
- Cathy Latham, GA fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Scott Hall, Bail Bondsman, indicted, facing trial
- Misty Hsmpton, Coffee County elections director, indicted, facing trial
- Kent Vanderwood, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Stanly Grot, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Amy Facchinello, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Kathy Berden, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Myra Rodriguez, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Hank Choate, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Meshawn Maddock, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Mari-Ann Henry, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- John Haggard, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Clifford Frost, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Mariann Sheridan, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Timothy King, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Michele Lundgren, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- James Renner, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
- Ken Thompson, MI fake elector, indicted, facing trial
Now add to this the list those who have taken the fall before Trump became president and add to it all of those people Trump has swindled through schemes like Trump University as well as various real estate ventures. Don't forget the lives destroyed from his six (I think) failed casinos.
You could populate a small city with the lives that were negatively impacted by having interacted in some fashion with Donald J. Trump, probably history's most successful con man.Whew, now that is a mouthful. Nice you back and feeling well, ESO.
Back to the war.....Thank you, but not quite well, still recovering from Covid (which I think I gave to my wife). I was surprised to hear the other day that it is still the 5th leading cause of death in America today.
Not surprisingly, Lying Fox News (LFN) lies again. This time apparently about a Gold Star family.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/26/business … e=trendbar
This is why no one should ever believe anything LFN says.
Stenger, who is the top spokesman for the Marine Corps, added that he viewed the behavior of Fox News as “disgusting,” according to Military.com.
Initially, after being notified about the false report, Fox News only changed the headline on the story to attribute the claims to Republican Rep. Cory Mills of Florida, who had advanced the narrative but later recanted. The outlet later scrubbed the story from its website without a correction or explanation. It remained deleted on Saturday after the apology.WOW, Trump (and his legal team) really are getting desperate and sickening. They tried to convince a Black judge that the government's request for a reasonable trial date is similar to the rush to judgement that occurred with the false accusation of nine Black youths of rape back in the 1930s. Their argument was that taking Trump to trial almost a year after the indictment and three years after the crime is the same as putting these Black men in front of an all white jury in Alabama nine days after they were indicted. Ultimately, after serving six years in prison, the Supreme Court (who the Trump lawyers were citing) shined a light on this injustice and reversed all of the death sentences.
Rightly so, Judge Chutkan effectively told the Trump lawyers to grow up and to go to hell.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/politics … index.html"Rightly so, Judge Chutkan effectively told the Trump lawyers to grow up and to go to hell."
Yes, I believe that this was the appropriate response.I agree likewise. But the Judge Chutcan, gave a very critical reason, and explaination.
Happily, the legal noose is tightening around those who are trying to destroy American democracy.
"It turns out that there is a heavy price for trying to steal votes, defaming defenseless election workers and invading the US Capitol to try to thwart a democratic transfer of presidential power. And accountability is moving ever closer to Donald Trump."
"America’s judicial system is ... in the process becoming the primary vehicle shoring up the country’s still-threatened democracy."
Judge Timothy Kelly said “The nature of the constitutional moment we were in that day is something that is so sensitive that it deserves a significant sentence,” as he handed out 17 year and 15 year sentences to two insurrectionists.
"... one-time Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani lost a defamation lawsuit from two Georgia election workers that he and Trump had targeted in one of the most lopsided and pernicious acts of any commander in chief in modern memory."- Giuliani faces a large compensatory fine and millions of dollars in punitive fines. The two ladies should now sue Trump.
In one of the best developments for America and accountability, Also on Thursday, a judge cleared the way for future hearings and trials in the case to be televised, increasing the possibility of a national moment of shared accountability."
[i]"Yet the increasing number of convictions in January 6-related cases and indictments of Trump and his allies, taken together, do represent a response from a democracy that is defending itself. "
"The possibility is also growing that the Republican Party could nominate a convicted felon for president – and effectively trigger a constitutional crisis. The former president and a conservative media machine have, meanwhile, convinced" - I say brainwashed - " millions of Americans that he did nothing wrong after the last election. "
"Yet no democracy would last long if it failed to respond to the alleged crimes committed by Trump and his acolytes after the 2020 election. And the ex-president is only proving his ongoing threat to the institutions of the US political system with his constant attacks on judges, prosecutors and opponents, which have forced many of them to embrace increased security protection."
The two GA election workers Trump and Giuliani defamed said Moss and Freeman said in a statement that the former mayor had “helped unleash a wave of hatred and threats we never could have imagined.” - That statement is true for hundreds if not thousands of people Trump and his organization has attacked in order to illegally stay in power.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/01/politics … index.htmlThen there is this from New Hampshire where Trump may not even appear on the ballot.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/31/politics … index.htmlUltimately, the interpretation and application of constitutional provisions, like the 14th Amendment, can be a matter of legal and political debate.
The 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution does contain a provision (Section 3) that deals with disqualification from holding public office for individuals who have engaged in insurrection or rebellion.
Is it not essential to respect the principles of due process and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?
Last I heard Trump has not been convicted of engaging in an insurrection or a rebellion. Here is a source that lists the indictments. He has not been charged with insurrection ' https://www.vox.com/trump-investigation … ndictments
So, if NH removes Trump's name from the ballot, it would seem they are simply removing a presidential candidate because they want to... This is dangerous to our election process. It's communistic in nature. This form of mindset is dangerous to our very Democracy.
Do you support the concept of GUILYT WITHOUT A TRIAL?
I do not... I hope to see justice take its course without penalizing a man before he has been found to be guilty.I think what they and the other states are doing is setting it up for litigation. Nobody will know the final answer until the Supreme Court rules. There is two cases in history where it was used.
Depends on which guilt you are talking about. If you are talking legally guilty where a penalty can be imposed, then a trial is needed. If you are talking about our god-given brains to analyze an issue, then I can easily believe he is guilty.
While you will not, based on you "I do not..." comment, ever presume Hitler was guilty of genocide since there was no trial, I have no problem believing such based on the public evidence.
Penalizing? Just like Trump and Giuliani didn't "penalize" the two Georgia election workers based on ZERO evidence? My God, they were in fear for the lives because of what Trump and Giuliani said and did. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.Hitler's world genocide and Trump's so called insurrection are not the same thing or paralle. They shouldn't not be compared.
Yes they are in terms of this issue - can a person be considered guilty of a crime if and only if they have been convicted in a court of law? My answer is no. You can know a person is guilty even though they haven't been formally convicted.
I will use an example I have used before. You witness a driver run a red light. In America, that is a crime. Since you witnessed it, YOU know that person is guilty of running the red light. (Of course some here will concoct fanciful reasons for WHY they ran the red light, but those are semantics and beside the point.) A court of law is needed to prove guilt only if a punishment is the end goal. Just because a court didn't pronounce guilt doesn't mean that person didn't run the red light, now does it?My Exotoric, what you said makes sense to me. And I doubt who should disagree? But has an accusation be made? No. That's why decades ago, a very top lawyer said to me and others that the figment of the imagination is not admissiable in law. Let the person(s) face trial. Then guilt can be proved or not
Are you talking about all those indictments against Trump? Those are accusations.
If you are talking about the guy you saw run a red light, no accusation is needed - you saw that person do it.
Figment of the imagination? That means you must see Hitler as innocent then - he had no trial.
Shar, I com...completely agree with you. Despite all the odds against Trump, despite all the current indictments against him, I hold the view that justice must not seems to have been done, it must be done. Ultimately, let Trump be put to trial, and let his innocency, or guilt be determine by the courts.
Miebakagh
Throughout much of our history, I firmly believe that the prevailing sentiment among Americans was to uphold the principle of "innocent until proven guilty." However, it is my current perspective that there are now some citizens who seem to lean towards a mindset of "guilty until proven innocent." This shift in perspective is concerning and poses a potential danger.
Regrettably, this is the current state of affairs as I see it.
SharShar, you're welcome. And the world is watching. Seriously, the 'inalianeable rights of man' is not to be tossed to the waste bin. Critically, the love of freedom, of movement, of liberty, free speech, cetera pari bus, is every Americans birth right. And I'm wondering why certain bigots will like to deprived T of such a cherished right. America, in her characteristic big and open heart sold it to the world. Why is it now not good for Trump? Thanks.
It is not just every American's birthright - it is every human's birthright.
Why is it not good for Trump? Because all the evidence shows he is a criminal. While it is debatable that he will be put in jail for mishandling government secrets, causing an insurrection, and cooking his business's books; he will go to jail in GA for racketeering because it has a mandatory minimum 5-year sentence if found legally guilty.
The previous post brought to you by a proud member of the 'lock her up' cult.
Unjust, you lack insight into my views regarding Hillary Clinton. I can express that I believe she should have been afforded the same principle of innocence until proven guilty.
In my view, It is inherently unjust to categorize individuals into groups solely based on their characteristics, beliefs, or backgrounds. Such generalizations overlook the rich diversity of each person's unique experiences and perspectives. By grouping people, we risk perpetuating stereotypes, discrimination, and bias.But how about publicly available evidence. Am I not allowed to form an opinion as to guilt or innocence or not sure based on that? People have been doing that since the advent of humanity.
And back to my example, are you saying you believe Hitler was innocent of genocide since he wasn't proven guilty in a court of law?No, I am not suggesting that Hitler was innocent of genocide because he wasn't proven guilty in a court of law. In the case of Hitler and the Holocaust, there is an overwhelming body of historical evidence, including documents, testimonies, and photographs, that firmly establishes his responsibility for the genocide of millions of people. There was no doubt due to concrete evidence of all I made mention of.
The concept of innocent until proven guilty primarily applies to legal proceedings, and in the case of historical events like the Holocaust, it is not a matter of legal judgment but a matter of historical fact supported by extensive and credible evidence. Hitler's guilt for the Holocaust is widely accepted by historians, scholars, and the international community based on this substantial body of evidence. In my view, It's essential to differentiate between legal standards and historical consensus when discussing such matters.
I find it hyperbolic to compare Trump to Hitler. -- I see this comparison frequently, and I am going to take the time to share my thoughts. In my view, it is very unfair to compare Trump to Hitler. The evil of Hitler stands alone. He was a murderer of millions of human beings from the very young to the very old. So, I find such a comparison between Trump and Hitler illogical, and hyperbolic.
Trump and Hitler are two distinct figures from different historical contexts, and comparing them should be done carefully and responsibly, keeping in mind the vast differences between their lives, actions, and the contexts in which they operated.
Consider, Adolf Hitler was the dictator of Nazi Germany responsible for initiating World War II and the Holocaust, which led to the genocide of millions of people. Donald Trump served as the 45th President of the United States operating in a democratic system with checks and balances.
Consider the vast difference between their ideologies -- Hitler's ideology was deeply rooted in extreme nationalism, anti-Semitism, and totalitarianism. His regime outwardly promoted racial purity and expansionist ambitions.
Trump's political platform was characterized by elements of populism, economic nationalism, and conservative values. His policies focused on issues such as immigration, trade, and deregulation. He made every attempt to promote America and Americans. Was he always successful -- no he was not. Did he put forth effort, in my view yes.
Hitler's leadership resulted in widespread war, destruction, and genocide on an unprecedented scale, leading to the death of millions.
Trump's presidency was marked by policy decisions, including tax reform, deregulation, judicial appointments, changes in foreign policy, and his handling of a historic pandemic. Many Americans are split on his handling of the pandemic.
Hitler's actions left a legacy of devastation and trauma, and his regime is universally condemned for its atrocities.
Trump's presidency generated both strong support and opposition within the United States, with varying views on his policies and leadership style.
Adolf Hitler was not held accountable in a court of law as he died by suicide in 1945 before facing trial.
Donald Trump now faced multiple legal indictments. That has not been adjudicated. He survived two impeachment trials during his presidency. his presidency.
It is crucial to approach comparisons like these with great caution, as they can oversimplify complex historical events and individuals. While both figures have elicited strong reactions and debates, their actions and consequences exist in fundamentally different historical and political contexts.My Exoteric, as regards your last paragraphe, what you clearly state here is even differs from the man that flashs the red light. Critically, both committed crimes. Those men who helped Hitler, were brought to trial, found guilty, and then sentense to be hanged. Others are are still in hiding. While Hitler, can be tried in absentia, d' you think defence can stand or put up for him?
We aren't talking about the men who helped Hitler, we are talking about whether you consider Hitler innocent of genocide since he wasn't tried. That is the question. And as far as I know, Hitler was not tried in absentia, therefore that becomes a hypothetical.
By your and Sharlee's logic, since Hitler wasn't tried, he must be innocent of any crime. Same logic applies to other known murderers such as Al Capone, Vladimir Putin, Un, Xi, Maduro, etc. Each one must be innocent of any crimes since they haven't been tried and found guilty in a court of law.
Somehow, that kind of logic just doesn't make any sense to me.My Exoteric, it seems that you're reasoning more in the eyes of the populace than the law. The law courts required that any accused person brought before it or her, is presume innocent until proved guilty or otherwise. Critically, it seems that you're not thinking along this legal context. All that you do is proving an historical opinion, and I've no doubt of that realty. Putin, Xi, and the others that are still in power, are yet to be accused because they legal system differs from a democratic government. Critically again, Trump, was target when he give in to run for the Oval Office.
No, I am not thinking about the legal context, I have said that. You have two venues - 1) what people rationally think based on the available evidence and 2) what a jury thinks based on the available evidence.
The "populous" has a right to form opinions about innocence and guilt based on the evidence and they have a right to express that opinion, which is what I and many others are doing.
There seems to be a set of people who would deny us that right and only allow the jury to determine guilt or innocence and the rest of us can remain braindead.
Trump made himself a target long before he came down those stairs in 2015. Why? Because he is a known con man who has bilked hundreds to thousands of people out of money through his various schemes. He has many lawsuits against him that he settled to back that up.
When he came down those stairs, he put another target on his back with his xenophobic rhetoric to add to his history of misogyny and other ugly traits a leader of America should not have.
People didn't just willie-nillie put a target on Trump's back - he did that all himself..
I am not proving an "historical opinion". I am expressing a well reasoned conclusion from an analysis of the information I have before me.
And you have yet to answer the question of whether you, personally, based upon what you know, believe those people I mentioned, including Trump, would be found guilty if tried. Why won't you answer that?Since you've claarly on the side of the populous, I'm not deny you your rights, nor am I asking that you subscribed to my school. You're good to go. Second, I'm not in favour of what the jury holds. The high court judges can do away with such. Where the jury is upheld, appeal exists. That's what I hold.
I am not on the side of anybody, only the truth. I use the facts before me to make my own conclusions. Others may not, but that is the way I work.
I noted my name mentioned --- Do not try to put words in my mouth... I posted a very long view of my opinion of why one should not compare Hitler, to Trump. You passed it by, and did not reply. And now you attempt to skew my view. Once again here is my view on why one should not compare Trump to Hitler. My view was shared in response to one of your posts. Please note the first sentence.
"No, I am not suggesting that Hitler was innocent of genocide because he wasn't proven guilty in a court of law. In the case of Hitler and the Holocaust, there is an overwhelming body of historical evidence, including documents, testimonies, and photographs, that firmly establishes his responsibility for the genocide of millions of people. There was no doubt due to concrete evidence of all I made mention of.
The concept of innocent until proven guilty primarily applies to legal proceedings, and in the case of historical events like the Holocaust, it is not a matter of legal judgment but a matter of historical fact supported by extensive and credible evidence. Hitler's guilt for the Holocaust is widely accepted by historians, scholars, and the international community based on this substantial body of evidence. In my view, It's essential to differentiate between legal standards and historical consensus when discussing such matters.
I find it hyperbolic to compare Trump to Hitler. -- I see this comparison frequently, and I am going to take the time to share my thoughts. In my view, it is very unfair to compare Trump to Hitler. The evil of Hitler stands alone. He was a murderer of millions of human beings from the very young to the very old. So, I find such a comparison between Trump and Hitler illogical, and hyperbolic.
Trump and Hitler are two distinct figures from different historical contexts, and comparing them should be done carefully and responsibly, keeping in mind the vast differences between their lives, actions, and the contexts in which they operated.
Consider, Adolf Hitler was the dictator of Nazi Germany responsible for initiating World War II and the Holocaust, which led to the genocide of millions of people. Donald Trump served as the 45th President of the United States operating in a democratic system with checks and balances.
Consider the vast difference between their ideologies -- Hitler's ideology was deeply rooted in extreme nationalism, anti-Semitism, and totalitarianism. His regime outwardly promoted racial purity and expansionist ambitions.
Trump's political platform was characterized by elements of populism, economic nationalism, and conservative values. His policies focused on issues such as immigration, trade, and deregulation. He made every attempt to promote America and Americans. Was he always successful -- no he was not. Did he put forth effort, in my view yes.
Hitler's leadership resulted in widespread war, destruction, and genocide on an unprecedented scale, leading to the death of millions.
Trump's presidency was marked by policy decisions, including tax reform, deregulation, judicial appointments, changes in foreign policy, and his handling of a historic pandemic. Many Americans are split on his handling of the pandemic.
Hitler's actions left a legacy of devastation and trauma, and his regime is universally condemned for its atrocities.
Trump's presidency generated both strong support and opposition within the United States, with varying views on his policies and leadership style.
Adolf Hitler was not held accountable in a court of law as he died by suicide in 1945 before facing trial.
Donald Trump now faced multiple legal indictments. That has not been adjudicated. He survived two impeachment trials during his presidency. his presidency.
It is crucial to approach comparisons like these with great caution, as they can oversimplify complex historical events and individuals. While both figures have elicited strong reactions and debates, their actions and consequences exist in fundamentally different historical and political"No one was putting words in your mouth. I was just commenting on the logic you use. You wrote the words, I didn't.
I understand why you don't want to compare the situation with Trump and the situation with Hitler (or any of the others). It defeats you logic.
Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't your logic state imply that a person is totally innocent, regardless of the known facts, until they are proven guilty in a court of law? Did I misinterpret what you wrote?
Well, Hitler was never convicted in a court of law, was he? Therefore, he must be innocent of the crime of genocide. Am I wrong?
If evidence is enough for you to say that historians are correct about Hitler's guilt, then why isn't the available and very compelling evidence against Trump enough for most Americans to make the judgement that Trump is guilty of most, if not all of the crimes he is accused of. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
His survival of two impeachments was a given because of the partisanship of the Republican Senate. Even then, a majority of senators thought Trump guilty, especially the second time. He was three short of being convicted, I believe. So stating that he survived impeachment isn't saying much in my book.
I don't believe Hitler was facing trial yet, but I could be wrong.
As to comparing Hitler with Trump in this regard is quite legitimate. We are not talking about what each did, other than allegedly commit crimes. We are talking about whether they are presumed innocent (in a non-legal sense) of those crimes. Your logic seems to say yes, mine says no.
The public has adjudicated Hitler as being guilty (save a few on the right-wing) and the public has likewise adjudicated Trump guilty. In Hitler's case, we will never know if a jury would have found him guilty. In Trump's case, we will. And I would stake a lot of money that he will be found guilty of many things.Put the million dollars on the table right now.
Why, are you going to match it? You believe that strongly in Trump's innocence?
Am I to assume you think Hitler is innocent as well since you keep dodging the question?
Again my views on why I feel your logic in regard to comparing Trump to Hitler is badly skewed. I find your concept illogical.
SHARLEE01 WROTE:
I noted my name mentioned --- Do not try to put words in my mouth... I posted a very long view of my opinion of why one should not compare Hitler, to Trump. You passed it by, and did not reply. And now you attempt to skew my view. Once again here is my view on why one should not compare Trump to Hitler. My view was shared in response to one of your posts. Please note the first sentence.
"No, I am not suggesting that Hitler was innocent of genocide because he wasn't proven guilty in a court of law. In the case of Hitler and the Holocaust, there is an overwhelming body of historical evidence, including documents, testimonies, and photographs, that firmly establishes his responsibility for the genocide of millions of people. There was no doubt due to concrete evidence of all I made mention of.
The concept of innocent until proven guilty primarily applies to legal proceedings, and in the case of historical events like the Holocaust, it is not a matter of legal judgment but a matter of historical fact supported by extensive and credible evidence. Hitler's guilt for the Holocaust is widely accepted by historians, scholars, and the international community based on this substantial body of evidence. In my view, It's essential to differentiate between legal standards and historical consensus when discussing such matters.
I find it hyperbolic to compare Trump to Hitler. -- I see this comparison frequently, and I am going to take the time to share my thoughts. In my view, it is very unfair to compare Trump to Hitler. The evil of Hitler stands alone. He was a murderer of millions of human beings from the very young to the very old. So, I find such a comparison between Trump and Hitler illogical, and hyperbolic.
Trump and Hitler are two distinct figures from different historical contexts, and comparing them should be done carefully and responsibly, keeping in mind the vast differences between their lives, actions, and the contexts in which they operated.
Consider, Adolf Hitler was the dictator of Nazi Germany responsible for initiating World War II and the Holocaust, which led to the genocide of millions of people. Donald Trump served as the 45th President of the United States operating in a democratic system with checks and balances.
Consider the vast difference between their ideologies -- Hitler's ideology was deeply rooted in extreme nationalism, anti-Semitism, and totalitarianism. His regime outwardly promoted racial purity and expansionist ambitions.
Trump's political platform was characterized by elements of populism, economic nationalism, and conservative values. His policies focused on issues such as immigration, trade, and deregulation. He made every attempt to promote America and Americans. Was he always successful -- no he was not. Did he put forth effort, in my view yes.
Hitler's leadership resulted in widespread war, destruction, and genocide on an unprecedented scale, leading to the death of millions.
Trump's presidency was marked by policy decisions, including tax reform, deregulation, judicial appointments, changes in foreign policy, and his handling of a historic pandemic. Many Americans are split on his handling of the pandemic.
Hitler's actions left a legacy of devastation and trauma, and his regime is universally condemned for its atrocities.
Trump's presidency generated both strong support and opposition within the United States, with varying views on his policies and leadership style.
Adolf Hitler was not held accountable in a court of law as he died by suicide in 1945 before facing trial.
Donald Trump now faced multiple legal indictments. That has not been adjudicated. He survived two impeachment trials during his presidency. his presidency.
It is crucial to approach comparisons like these with great caution, as they can oversimplify complex historical events and individuals. While both figures have elicited strong reactions and debates, their actions and consequences exist in fundamentally different historical and political"Change Hitler to Putin then, the same logic applies. Based on the information I have available to me, I think Putin is a murderer. But since he has not been convicted, if I understand you logic correctly, you think he is innocent of that allegation.
That is not putting words in your mouth, just a logical conclusion from the words you wrote.
Not unjust when one openly and proudly supports the leader who perpetuates the elimination of the innocent until proven guilty standard by encouraging and permitting that 'lock her up' chant. I call it how I see it. Anyone that can vote for someone perpetuating such a fascist idea, I have no problem grouping them together.
Great deflection and false equivalency. Focus Shar, we're talking about coup attempts. Not which candidate has been found liable for sexually assaulting a woman or has publicly admitted that he sexually assaults women by grabbing them by their genitalia (which doesn't even come close to that photo you just posted). Those voting for Trump have to sleep with the fact that they're going to vote for someone proven in a court of law to have raped a woman.
And you will dream of the above -- a man that smells hair, mainly of children... Yuck Some could call him a predator, or accuse him of Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Yikes!Did you see McConnell grinning like a Cheshire cat in that last picture? Yuck and Yikes.
Meanwhile, she will ignore the court filing by the woman who claimed Trump and Epstein sexually assaulted her on Epstein's island when she was underage (13) because the woman had to withdraw the suit after getting death threats from Trumpers. As far as I know, the democratic candidate is not accused in court papers of raping a 13-year old.
Why the hijacker continues to want to go down this path and talk about this topic is a joke, right? They should just start another one of those Biden-hate threads to talk about it there.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics … allegationYes, his embarrassment was evitable. I mean to watch the president of the US openly smell a child's hair, and treat her in such a sexual manner.
Looks like Mitch was more or less thinking --- here Joe goes again, smelling hair. Probably very custom to Biden hair smelling gestures.
And I guess if we are predicting dreams, hopefully, the above does not haunt your dreams. Yikes sick stuff... Some might paedophilia which is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual ...
I wish I did not have the need to remind you of the long list of women who have accused Biden of being sexually inappropriate. However, it seems you dwell on Trump's conviction, which was not actually rape.
Lucy Flores
On March 29, in the aforementioned essay published on the Cut, former Nevada lieutenant governor nominee Lucy Flores alleged that Biden smelled her hair and gave her “a BIG SLOW KISS” on the back of her head at an event for her 2014 campaign. In that moment, she wrote, she felt “embarrassed” and “shocked.”
“I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me,” she continued. In response to the essay, Biden claimed that he had no memory of having “acted inappropriately,” but added that if he was in the wrong, he would “listen respectfully.”
Amy Lappos
When Amy Lappos was a congressional aide for U.S. representative Jim Himes in 2009, she claims that Biden touched and rubbed his nose against hers during a political fund-raiser. “It wasn’t sexual, but he did grab me by the head,” she told Hartford Courant on April 1. “He put his hand around my neck and pulled me in to rub noses with me. When he was pulling me in, I thought he was going to kiss me on the mouth.”
After the incident, Lappos didn’t file a formal complaint. “He was the vice president,” she told the Courant. “I was a nobody.”
D.J. Hill
D.J. Hill was one of two women to come forward with allegations in the New York Times, which referred to Biden’s conduct as “tactile politics” in a report published on April 2. At a 2012 at fundraising event in Minneapolis, Hill alleges that Biden rested his hand on her shoulder, and then started to move it down her back, which left her feeling “very uncomfortable.”
“Only he knows his intent,” she told the Times, adding, “If something makes you feel uncomfortable, you have to feel able to say it.”
Caitlyn Caruso
In the same Times report, a woman named Caitlyn Caruso claimed that after sharing the story of her sexual assault at a University of Nevada event in 2016, Biden hugged her “just a little bit too long” and laid his hand on her thigh.
“It doesn’t even really cross your mind that such a person would dare perpetuate harm like that,” she told the Times. “These are supposed to be people you can trust.”
Ally Coll
On April 3, Ally Coll told the Washington Post that at a 2008 reception, Biden squeezed her shoulders, complimented her smile, and held her “for a beat too long.” A young Democratic staffer at the time, Coll said her initial reaction was to shrug it off. But she told the Post she now feels the alleged incident was inappropriate, adding, “There’s been a lack of understanding about the way that power can turn something that might seem innocuous into something that can make somebody feel uncomfortable.”
Sofie Karasek
In 2016, Sofie Karasek was photographed holding hands and touching foreheads with Biden at the Oscars, where she stood alongside 50 other sexual-assault survivors during Lady Gaga’s performance. It was a moment that soon went viral, and was described then by the Post as “powerful.” But in the Post’s report published this week, Karasek says she believes that Biden violated her personal space. She also told the Post that she wasn’t impressed with Biden’s two-minute-long video response to the growing unwanted-touching allegations against him — in which he never says he’s sorry — as he “didn’t take ownership in the way that he needs to.”
“He emphasized that he wants to connect with people and, of course, that’s important,” she told the publication. “But again, all of our interactions and friendships are a two-way street … Too often it doesn’t matter how the woman feels about it or they just assume that they’re fine with it.”
Vail Kohnert-Yount
In the same Post report, Vail Kohnert-Yount alleged that when she was a White House intern in the spring of 2013, Biden “put his hand on the back of [her] head and pressed his forehead to [her] forehead” when he introduced himself, and that he called her a “pretty girl.” She was “so shocked,” she said, “that it was hard to focus on what he was saying.” Though she told the Post that she doesn’t believe Biden’s conduct constituted sexual misconduct, she described it as “the kind of inappropriate behavior that makes many women feel uncomfortable and unequal in the workplace.”
Alexandra Tara Reade
Alexandra Tara Reade told the Union that Biden touched her several times when she worked in his U.S. Senate office in 1993. The incidents, in which she said Biden would “put his hand on my shoulder and run his finger up my neck,” allegedly occurred when she was in her mid-20s. Reade told the Union that her responsibilities at work were reduced after she refused to serve drinks at an event — a task she believes she was assigned because Biden liked her legs.
Reade reportedly spoke to U.S. Senate personnel about what was going on, and Biden’s office allegedly found out. She left his office two months later, after only nine months on the job. Reade told the Union that she didn’t feel sexualized by the way she’d been treated, instead saying she felt ornamental, like a lamp: “It’s pretty. Set it over there. Then when it’s too bright, you throw it away.”
In March 2020, Reade expanded on her account, telling the podcaster Katie Halper that Biden sexually assaulted her in the spring of 1993. Reade reiterated her story in interviews with the New York Times the following month, telling the paper that — when she dropped off a gym bag with him one day — he pushed her up against a wall and started kissing her neck, before sliding his hand up her shirt and ultimately up her skirt. “It happened at once. He’s talking to me and his hands are everywhere and everything is happening very quickly,” she recalled. “He was kissing me and he said, very low, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else?’” Reade said Biden penetrated her with his fingers before she was able to pull away. When she did, she says he appeared confused. “He looked at me kind of almost puzzled or shocked,” she told the Times. “He said, ‘Come on, man, I heard you liked me.’”
My apologies to ECO, and I will step away from this thread.Like I said, the right cannot defend Trump's attempted illegal coup, so going to a failed attempt to hijack ECO's thread with a completely different topic is all they have. I find that such a sad tactic. Let alone complaining about repetitive posts and then spamming the site with the same debunked claims from someone like Tara Reade, whose story and credibility were both investigated and found wanting (and that's being generous).
For a health professional to deny that when a man penetrates a woman's genitalia without her permission is not a rape is something I find disgusting and am glad that person decides to step away from talking about it. It's the second far-right person in these forums to deny what most states define as a clear example as a rape, and what the actual trial judge confirmed as a rape as well. I just wish those who choose to live in these deluded realities would stop engaging with those of us who can accept these obvious truths. It's a complete waste of our time.Yes, let's compare notes with Biden's admittedly inappropriate but non-sexual touching to Trump's proclivity to rape, grab genitals, forcibly kiss on the lips, grab breasts, enter dressing rooms with naked women all around, grabbing ass, and assorted other sexual assaults that date from the 1970s to at least 2016.
And this is who 80 million Americans want to be president again. Amazing!You are behind in the subject --- we have compared. In my view comparing sexual misconduct can not be judged by the degree. Tara Reade claimed Biden raped her physically putting his fingers in her vagina. I as a woman believe her. I believe the women who made sexual claims about Trump.
I feel Biden is a pedophile, and actually can't control himself around children. There are just too many innocent that support my view. I shutter when I see him with his small grandchild.We are comparing Biden's alleged inappropriate behavior with Trump's proven sexual assaults. We are NOT comparing Biden's sexual assaults with Trump's since Biden hasn't been accused by any credible woman of anything sexual in nature. Methinks you are conflating two different things.
You haven't listed a single sexual contact other than the debunked Reade.
Tara Reade has been debunked as a storyteller - she made it up.
But Biden wasn't tried and convicted as a pedophile, or anything else for that matter. I though you said he is innocent until proven guilty in court of law.
I guess I will now have to post pictures of Trump and the women he has sexually molested and raped, etc. How about the lady on the airplane whose skirt he put his hand up or Carroll in whom he put his fingers where they didn't belong.
You don't really want to start comparing your malignant hero to normal people, do you?In her mind, changing the topic is the best defense to Trump's obvious crimes of trying to steal an American election. It might be the only defense they can muster on the right.
It was a weak attempt to distract - and to distract to a different topic where Trump still looks infinitely worse than Biden in terms of conduct. I think I took it just fine by posting the facts that one candidate is a proven rapist, in a court of law.
I posted a humorous comic about the ridiculousness of Trump choosing to run for office after trying to break his oath of office and you tried to deflect because you have no rebuttal to it. The comic obviously was triggering, so it's easy to see which one of us felt the need to try and avoid a discussion about the topic.I've noticed that throughout this forum, Trump's alleged sexual misconduct has been a recurring topic. I believe it's important to engage in a balanced conversation, so I'm more than willing to address any concerns or topics related to Biden, who plays a significant role in our current political landscape. The correlation is evident in regard to these two men's sexual misbehavior. In my view as a woman, sexual misbehavior of women no matter what the degree needs to be pointed out.
By the way, this thread has gone off subject time and time again.
Maybe take a bit of time to review the many topics that have been and are being discussed here on the thread.Why didn't any of the women you listed think Biden's conduct was sexual?
Maybe when replying directly to me, especially when I'm not directly talking to you in the first place, try and address the topic I was discussing instead of going on one of those 'I-hate-Biden' rants. I know that will be a stretch in this case because you have no defense for the main topic of this thread. But it doesn't hurt to ask.
I recommend that if you find my comment to be inappropriate, you can report it to the moderator. It's evident that you have a preference for discussions that portray Biden in a more positive light, but that's your perspective. I consistently strive to maintain a respectful tone in my comments and avoid making things personal unless it's warranted.
I do not engage in personal attacks when it comes to someone's right to express their viewpoint. My aim is to maintain a non-confrontational approach. So, if you happen to disagree with some of my posts that express my personal views on Biden, that's a matter for you to deal with, isn't it?
Again this thread has gone off track over and over...I recommend that if you're going to reply to me out of left field, with an obvious triggering to what I posted, how about addressing the topic I was talking about. If you feel the need to post such a deflection in an attempt to hijack the conversation, don't do it as a reply to a specific post, do it as a general post.
Pretty obvious the motivations are always to try and make Biden out to be more corrupt than the Orange God that MAGA worships, but it just looks ridiculous to all of us liberals and falls on deaf ears. Especially when the post contains all the same information that's been posted since before 2020. Go look at all the dates - there's nothing in there past 2016. So it's just spam that you keep reposting that we've all seen before. Meanwhile, there is new information pertaining to Trump and why we have mentioned it - and that proven conduct, in this case rape, is way worse than anything Biden has been proven to have done. So not only is it spam, but it's a false equivalency.
It would have been appropriate to try and defend Trump in this instance. But like I keep saying, there is none to his attempted coup." Especially when the post contains all the same information that's been posted since before 2020. Go look at all the dates - there's nothing in there past 2016. "
And this absolves Biden's misconduct, in regard to invading various female spaces?
In my view, it would be hard to weigh the multiple information that pops up almost daily on Biden as well as Trump.
"Meanwhile, there is new information pertaining to Trump and why we have mentioned it - and that proven conduct, in this case rape, is way worse than anything Biden has been proven to have done. "
As previously mentioned, I want to clarify that I do not intend to challenge the allegations made by women regarding certain actions by Biden that they found inappropriate. From my perspective, these actions seemed to encroach upon personal boundaries with a suggestive undertone, similar to his behavior when he engages closely with children, such as smelling their hair.
"It would have been appropriate to try and defend Trump in this instance. But like I keep saying, there is none to his attempted coup."
Kindly be aware that I have never supported or defended Trump regarding the numerous allegations of inappropriate or sexual misconduct made by women.
"Especially when the post contains all the same information that's been posted since before 2020. Go look at all the dates - there's nothing in there past 2016. "
It appears that you believe one can quantify and diminish the significance of misconduct that intrudes upon a woman's personal space. Furthermore, you seem to suggest that if such behavior occurred in the past, it should be entirely disregarded.
In my view, this conversation has become somewhat irrational. I will step away. And let you have the last word --- I feel I have more than shared my views on this subject.And I feel you continue to miss the point. You cannot even acknowledge the attempt to hijack the conversation in order to defend Trump on election interference. Nor can you accept the false equivalency of 'intruding upon a woman's space' equals rape.
Between the two candidates, liberals have concluded since 2020 that Biden is the lesser of the two evils in regards to women. So all the spam that is posted relitigating the issue, with zero new information about Biden, is a waste. If anything, now that Trump is a proven rapist, the topic only allows the left to hammer Trump even more, so raising it seems weird, to say the least.
An election is a comparison, so quantifying and understanding the severity of the conduct between the two candidates is more than fair game. Only one candidate is a proven rapist and only one has been accused of sexually assaulting a 13-year old girl - and that is the GOPs."And this absolves Biden's misconduct, in regard to invading various female spaces? " - FINALLY, you put it in the right perspective. Many people find Biden's mannerisms off-putting, hell I would. But, many people don't, especially if they are the touchy-feely type, which I am not and apparently none of those women are either - hence the cringe factor.
What we are NOT talking about, however, is any sexual misconduct by Biden; only by Trump.
While you have not supported or defended Trump for his many sexual transgressions, neither have you condemned him for it. You haven't said that being found guilty for rape is disqualifying for a person to be president and that you won't vote for the scumbag.I want to be clear that I've openly expressed my intention to vote for Trump if he becomes the candidate. I've been completely transparent about my reasons for this decision and the underlying motivations.
The primary factor influencing my choice is my belief that the country is headed in the wrong direction. From my perspective, the Democratic agenda poses a significant threat to the democracy we know. Additionally, I have strong reservations about President Biden, as I perceive that he may not be the one making crucial decisions. Moreover, I harbor doubts about the possibility of him and his son being involved in a potential pay-for-play business, although I acknowledge that this hasn't been definitively proven. Nevertheless, I've witnessed enough to raise concerns.
My vote will be cast in favor of the Republican Party with the hope of thwarting an agenda that I find deeply objectionable, as well as dangerous.
Yes, I could weigh the offenses that these men have perpetrated. However, I feel would be unsuitable, because I have no idea how these women's lives were affected by the misconduct.Which part of the Democrats agenda do you believe poses a significant threat to democracy? Do you oppose any of the legislation that has been passed at this point in the administration?
In my view, Biden's agenda can vary widely, as is the case with any political party. It's important to remember that the Republican Party is a diverse coalition, and individual Republicans may hold different opinions than I .... However, there are some common themes and criticisms that I have voiced and are voiced by many Republicans regarding Biden's agenda. I have listed all of these frequently on HPs. So this is a copy-paste, I keep on file.
I argue that President Biden's agenda, particularly his proposed infrastructure and social spending plans, involves excessive government spending and could lead to deeper inflation, and increased national debt. (Please note that I am aware of all the current economic stats, I am speaking of future economic problems, I feel could occur).
I oppose Biden's plans to raise taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals, arguing that it could stifle economic growth and job creation. Again feel this action could fuel inflation in the long run. When one pushes up against big money they push back with job cuts. No one is a winner in this respect. (Again this is my view, and I am not taking current statistics into consideration)
I have no faith in this administration in regard to their lack of luster approach to immigration. The numbers at our border have climbed right back up from the lower numbers in May and June. The bandaid Biden has tried to use is failing. And we are now beginning to feel the problems of Biden's flood of immigrants in some of our Major Sanctuary cities. Where they are asking for Federal help --- that means our tax dollars. Schools are back in session, and I think we will soon have huge problems due to many variables.
As you may know, I criticized Biden's approach to energy policy, including his decision to rejoin the Paris Agreement and his focus on renewable energy sources, arguing that it could hurt the fossil fuel industry and lead to job losses. Which it has done in the fuel industry.,and more will come.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/12/us/p … ition.html
I have great concerns about Biden's foreign policy decisions, including the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan and the approach to dealing with China and Russia. I don't in any respect consider him capable of making decisions on foreign policies. It has been reported he does not take the advice of our Military experts.
Top generals contradict Biden, say they urged him not to withdraw from Afghanistan https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/2 … ing-514491
On social issues like abortion and gun control, I have sharp ideological differences.
In my opinion, the Biden administration's response to the COVID-19 pandemic also was harmful to the country, I was very critical of measures like vaccine mandates and mask mandates when science did not support these measures. And has been, to suit me, proven the vaccines did not work as the general public was promised.
I also feel he is heading into senility. That is just my view, I have no means other than keeping up with all his antics. I feel he is a weak president, that just does not have the ability to govern.
Plus, it looks like he might have been running a pay-for-play scam with his
family. That has yet to be proven and may never be... But, the documentation is very revealing, and compelling. Hopefully, Congress weeds through all of it, and we are availed of the truth.The Republican Party may have a little diversity in it, but almost anything that isn't MAGA has been marginalized.
"I oppose Biden's plans to raise taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals, arguing that it could stifle economic growth and job creation." - Can you point to even one time in American history where that has happened? It didn't under Obama, it didn't under Bush I-Clinton, it didn't under Kennedy-Johnson. While the reverse has happened - cutting taxes as stifled growth and job creations. It did under Trump (although not as much as others, it did significantly raise the debt and deficit however). It did under Bush II. It did under Reagan.
Please point us to where you have scientific evidence that Vaccine and Mask mandates didn't save lives. Other than some quacks, there isn't a scientist who has studied this subject that agrees with you.
Let's see - Biden has arguably accomplished more, mostly bipartisan, than any other first term president in modern history. How does that equate to senility? Biden has countered Putin at every turn putting together a strong NATO and EU coalition to save Ukraine. How does that equate to senility?
I agree with you about Afghanistan, but Biden isn't the only one who didn't listen to his generals on that topic; Trump hardly listened to his generals on any topic. The rest of Biden's foreign policy has mostly been spot on, if you believe foreign leaders.
What hard evidence do you have to even slightly suggest that Joe Biden is running a pay-for-play scam like Trump's did along with his children. What documentation is very revealing. Any that you have posted that I have read has mostly been debunked.I offered my view, I politely answered Willows's inquiry. I have no interest in wasting my time defending my views. You certainly took much of my words out of context. So no, I owe you nothing more than I chose to give.
All I asked for is hard evidence to support your view, that seems fair to me.
On the other hand, I will not vote for any Republican in general and have an aversion to Trump in particular.
I would like to think that I am transparent about my reasons as well. I will support President Biden or any Democrat, within reason in 2024. I would even support spoilers like RFK jr, or Cornel West to keep Republicans out of office.
My vote will be cast in favor of the Democratic Party with the hope of thwarting a Republican Party and agenda that I find deeply objectionable as well as dangerous.
I guess that we remain at an impasse.I value honesty and straightforwardness in people, so I want to commend your comment.
In some ways, it's evident that we share a similarity in our commitment to honesty and our willingness to express our thoughts, even though our perspectives may differ. Despite our differing viewpoints, we both maintain a strong passion for our beliefs and values and are unafraid to share them.
Although we find ourselves at an impasse, it's heartening that we consistently keep the lines of communication open. This is certainly a positive aspect of our interaction.As I commend yours. Straddling the fence allows for wishy washy opinions and stance.
It does get hard to debate when we are on diametrically opposite sides of the issues. We are both immovable rocks and hard places.
We will search out the small and rare crevasses where we might actually find agreement.
For example, I did not like the f act that all the Republican candidates for President with rare exception agreed to pardon Trump if they were elected. As the law officer in chief, making such a pledge prior to the outcome of any trial was premature and unpresidential. They all appeared to "suck up" to the desires of the MAGA base instead of operate by the rule of law.Ahhh, so true, Credence. I find the simplest way to not be proven wrong is to not to engage.
I'm selective about who I engage in conversations with, and I believe Cred and I have developed a respectful and effective way of communicating. I genuinely hold him in high regard, and I'm confident he's aware of that. Both he and I recognize when it's time to move on from a topic that's been thoroughly discussed. And when to delve deeper into a subject.
The feeling is mutual, even as while we go to respective corners with our swords at the ready. En guard.....
Yes, we do --- I think neither think drawing blood in the end will solve much. Always best to live to fight another day.
I both invite and dare the opposition to challenge me.
"For example, I did not like the f act that all the Republican candidates for President with rare exception agreed to pardon Trump if they were elected. As the law officer in chief, making such a pledge prior to the outcome of any trial was premature and unpresidential. They all appeared to "suck up" to the desires of the MAGA base instead of operate by the rule of law."
I agree with your view, believing that discussing the possibility of pardoning anyone should be deferred until we possess a comprehensive understanding of all the relevant facts. My common sense tells me It appears hasty and improper to casually suggest pardoning Trump without a clear comprehension of the trial's outcomes.
I agree that those making such claims may be trying to curry favor with Trump and his supporters, and it's challenging to interpret their intentions differently.
I would have appreciated the gesture perhaps if it had included additional context, particularly regarding the severity of the alleged offense, before considering a pardon.
Yes, I agree, you have said you were going to vote for Trump. And now that you know he is a convicted rapist (albeit in a civil court) you have established you will vote for a rapist to be President of the United States. Good to know.
1. What HARD evidence have you say you have witnessed that ties Joe Biden to any pay-for-play scheme. As best I can tell, none, zero, nada has been published by any right, middle, or left-wing media other than fabrications.
2. Wiillowarbor asked below what specific parts of the Democratic agenda is a threat to democracy? We will see how you answer.I've expressed my thoughts on the numerous allegations surrounding Biden and his family. Furthermore, I maintain reservations regarding the potential involvement of him and his son in a hypothetical pay-for-play scheme, though always careful to acknowledge that this hasn't been definitively established.
I've refrained from asserting that any of the presented evidence, such as documents, bank records, firsthand accounts, or emails, conclusively demonstrates Biden's participation in a pay-for-play scheme.
I've expressed my desire for Congress to initiate an impeachment inquiry, either to substantiate the allegations of Biden's involvement in pay-for-play or to dismiss the matter if there isn't sufficient evidence.
I want to clarify that I haven't accused Biden of any wrongdoing; rather, I've highlighted reports from various congressional sources, including James Comer, Chairman of the House Oversight Committee.
Regarding Willow's question, I provided a comprehensive lengthy response. If you find it unsatisfactory, that's your prerogative. I've shared my perspective and the reasons why I believe many of Biden's policies and agenda items have eroded my confidence in his ability to safeguard our democracy as I understand it.
Permalink to my reply to Willow
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … ost4305886
Does comparing these men's sexual misbehavior excuse one or the other?
In my view, it does not.
Just don't but weigh sexual misconduct.Actually, none of the women you listed that Biden touched thought it was sexual in nature, just inappropriate. Several said so directly.
Trump, on the other hand, was pure sexual assault. Big difference.Lucy Flores
On March 29, in the aforementioned essay published on the Cut, former Nevada lieutenant governor nominee Lucy Flores alleged that Biden smelled her hair and gave her “a BIG SLOW KISS” on the back of her head at an event for her 2014 campaign. In that moment, she wrote, she felt “embarrassed” and “shocked.”
“I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me,” she continued. In response to the essay, Biden claimed that he had no memory of having “acted inappropriately,” but added that if he was in the wrong, he would “listen respectfully.”
Amy Lappos
When Amy Lappos was a congressional aide for U.S. representative Jim Himes in 2009, she claims that Biden touched and rubbed his nose against hers during a political fund-raiser. “It wasn’t sexual, but he did grab me by the head,” she told Hartford Courant on April 1. “He put his hand around my neck and pulled me in to rub noses with me. When he was pulling me in, I thought he was going to kiss me on the mouth.”
After the incident, Lappos didn’t file a formal complaint. “He was the vice president,” she told the Courant. “I was a nobody.”
D.J. Hill
D.J. Hill was one of two women to come forward with allegations in the New York Times, which referred to Biden’s conduct as “tactile politics” in a report published on April 2. At a 2012 at fundraising event in Minneapolis, Hill alleges that Biden rested his hand on her shoulder, and then started to move it down her back, which left her feeling “very uncomfortable.”
“Only he knows his intent,” she told the Times, adding, “If something makes you feel uncomfortable, you have to feel able to say it.”
Caitlyn Caruso
In the same Times report, a woman named Caitlyn Caruso claimed that after sharing the story of her sexual assault at a University of Nevada event in 2016, Biden hugged her “just a little bit too long” and laid his hand on her thigh.
“It doesn’t even really cross your mind that such a person would dare perpetuate harm like that,” she told the Times. “These are supposed to be people you can trust.”
Ally Coll
On April 3, Ally Coll told the Washington Post that at a 2008 reception, Biden squeezed her shoulders, complimented her smile, and held her “for a beat too long.” A young Democratic staffer at the time, Coll said her initial reaction was to shrug it off. But she told the Post she now feels the alleged incident was inappropriate, adding, “There’s been a lack of understanding about the way that power can turn something that might seem innocuous into something that can make somebody feel uncomfortable.”
Sofie Karasek
In 2016, Sofie Karasek was photographed holding hands and touching foreheads with Biden at the Oscars, where she stood alongside 50 other sexual-assault survivors during Lady Gaga’s performance. It was a moment that soon went viral, and was described then by the Post as “powerful.” But in the Post’s report published this week, Karasek says she believes that Biden violated her personal space. She also told the Post that she wasn’t impressed with Biden’s two-minute-long video response to the growing unwanted-touching allegations against him — in which he never says he’s sorry — as he “didn’t take ownership in the way that he needs to.”
“He emphasized that he wants to connect with people and, of course, that’s important,” she told the publication. “But again, all of our interactions and friendships are a two-way street … Too often it doesn’t matter how the woman feels about it or they just assume that they’re fine with it.”
Vail Kohnert-Yount
In the same Post report, Vail Kohnert-Yount alleged that when she was a White House intern in the spring of 2013, Biden “put his hand on the back of [her] head and pressed his forehead to [her] forehead” when he introduced himself, and that he called her a “pretty girl.” She was “so shocked,” she said, “that it was hard to focus on what he was saying.” Though she told the Post that she doesn’t believe Biden’s conduct constituted sexual misconduct, she described it as “the kind of inappropriate behavior that makes many women feel uncomfortable and unequal in the workplace.”
Alexandra Tara Reade
Alexandra Tara Reade told the Union that Biden touched her several times when she worked in his U.S. Senate office in 1993. The incidents, in which she said Biden would “put his hand on my shoulder and run his finger up my neck,” allegedly occurred when she was in her mid-20s. Reade told the Union that her responsibilities at work were reduced after she refused to serve drinks at an event — a task she believes she was assigned because Biden liked her legs.
Reade reportedly spoke to U.S. Senate personnel about what was going on, and Biden’s office allegedly found out. She left his office two months later, after only nine months on the job. Reade told the Union that she didn’t feel sexualized by the way she’d been treated, instead saying she felt ornamental, like a lamp: “It’s pretty. Set it over there. Then when it’s too bright, you throw it away.”
In March 2020, Reade expanded on her account, telling the podcaster Katie Halper that Biden sexually assaulted her in the spring of 1993. Reade reiterated her story in interviews with the New York Times the following month, telling the paper that — when she dropped off a gym bag with him one day — he pushed her up against a wall and started kissing her neck, before sliding his hand up her shirt and ultimately up her skirt. “It happened at once. He’s talking to me and his hands are everywhere and everything is happening very quickly,” she recalled. “He was kissing me and he said, very low, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else?’” Reade said Biden penetrated her with his fingers before she was able to pull away. When she did, she says he appeared confused. “He looked at me kind of almost puzzled or shocked,” she told the Times. “He said, ‘Come on, man, I heard you liked me.’”I had responded to each of those quoting, in some cases, where they say they didn't think there was anything sexual about what he did. But went to bit heaven. You seem to want to put words in their mouths, I will do it again.
Kohnert-Yount "She didn't believe Biden was harassing her but "it was the kind of inappropriate behavior that makes many women feel uncomfortable and unequal in the workplace.
Karasek - "She told him a friend had died by suicide and he pressed his forehead to hers." Inappropriate maybe to some people, but that is not sexual in nature/
Coll - "Biden leaned in, squeezed her shoulders, held her "for a beat too long" and complimented her smile when she met him in 2008." AGAIN, NOT sexual
Hill - "Biden slid his hand down her shoulder at a 2012 fundraiser" - AGAIN, uncomfortable, BUT NOT sexual.
https://www.axios.com/2019/04/04/joe-bi … ing-claims is the source for the above.
Laposs -"“When he was pulling me in, I thought he was going to kiss me on the mouth,” she said in the interview. She said the encounter “wasn’t sexual” but that there was “a line of respect’’ and Mr. Biden had crossed it."
The rest of the stories are the same - no sexual contact by Biden.. You can believe them or not.
You can also believe this about the Republican's war on Biden.
Regarding two of the pictures you put forward:
"Mr. Russo cited an image of Mr. Biden holding the shoulders of Stephanie Carter, the wife of former Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, and another of Mr. Biden kissing the head of Senator Chris Coons’s daughter, arguing that the criticism of the former vice president was rooted in inaccurate assumptions about what was occurring in the pictures.
Both Ms. Carter and Mr. Coons’s young daughter welcomed Mr. Biden’s embrace, Mr. Russo said, pointing to a Medium post Ms. Carter wrote and comments Mr. Coons made about how close his family is to the Bidens.
Of Republican duplicity:
"Mr. Russo pointed out that much of the criticism about Mr. Biden’s conduct has come from Republicans and that some of it has been manufactured entirely.
The aide pointed to photoshopped images, including one in which Mr. Biden is portrayed touching Ms. Carter’s breast, and another cropped photo of the former vice president comforting his grandson at the funeral of his son, Beau — which he called “most galling of all.’’
“These smears and forgeries have existed in the dark recesses of the internet for a while,” Mr. Russo said. “To this day, right-wing trolls and others continue to exploit them for their own gain,” he added, warning against a “cottage industry of lies.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/us/p … appos.html
ALL of those images you rely on to disparage Biden are either cropped to make it look bad or photoshopped to create a lie.
Special Counsel Jack Smith has turned his attention to one of the unindicted (so far) co-conspirators, Sydney Powell. She apparently bilked millions through her "Defending the Republic" non-profit in order to fund the illegal breach of voting machines.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/05/politics … index.htmlCredance, Valeant, I commend you to read this article which goes a long way in explaining why otherwise rational Americans have been brainwashed into following Trump to Hell.
It is a Politico piece - What does Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and Viktor Orban know about your brain. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … s-00108378
It makes several points as to what is behind the MAGA phenomenon.
1. Language is used to develop cult-like followings
2. Once a lie is accepted, it is very hard to get vulnerable people to think otherwise.
3. People like Trump use trigger words and phrases to dehumanize the opponent and engender hatred toward them
4. Once these manipulations begin and are accepted by a brain that does not analyze them, it PHYSICALLY changes the neural pathways to effectively turn these beliefs into habits.
5. Behind the susceptibility to brainwashing is fear. Fear of the "other". Fear of losing a privileged status
6. When fearful, dehumanizing rhetorical tactics are very effective and long-lasting
It is all these reasons and more what a person would elect a rapist and convicted (assuming Trump is, of course) felon to be President of the United States of America.
Other interesting articles about why people behave irrationally.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … ar/498116/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness … n-beliefs/
https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/jo … different/You appear to have a different perspective on my reasons for supporting the Republican candidate on the ballot. It has really nothing to do with Trump, but all to do with Biden. The Republicans could run a cat, and that cat got my vote. So, I take offense at your implication that I have been brainwashed. This kind of baiting is truely unacceptable. But, I will take into account the source.
By now, I believe my stance should be clear, and I don't intend to delve into further explanations, as I've reiterated my position numerous times
I believe that the Democratic party has contributed to deep divisions in our country and has caused significant damage. I've observed what I perceive as a lack of competence in leadership, with the current President appearing confused and making what I consider to be detrimental mistakes. There are allegations of potential wrongdoing regarding pay-for-play. To add to that, In my view, much of his administration seems ill-equipped for their appointed roles.
In light of all these many concerns, I hope this clarifies why I plan to cast my vote for the Republican candidate in the 2024 election. To be frank, I find it perplexing, and nonsensical that anyone would contemplate voting for Biden or any other Democrat at this juncture.That article was directed at the general MAGA phenomenon, not any individual person.
That said, I can simply not comprehend how any person can overlook Trump's massive character flaws and still wish he the leader of America.
I can understand not wanting to ever vote for a Democrat and what they think they stand for. But to put somebody so clearly unfit to hold office as Trump is, in office just because they don't like Democrats just doesn't make sense to me. If I were on that side, I would find someone else to vote for has many Republicans did 2020.
Switch sides and say JFK, Jr or West was the Democratic standard bearer, both are fit for office (JFK barely), so I would vote for them holding my nose just to keep the Party I feel is dedicated to destroying American democracy out of power. (If it were JFK Jr, I might consider voting for someone else. In fact, if it were Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, or Will Hurd running against him, I could consider voting for one of them, and not even hold my nose.)
Of course, I think the opposite about Biden. I am pretty confident he will be ranked by historians as one of the better presidents this nation has ever had - in spite of his Afghan decision.
I see C-Span doesn't have Biden ranked yet and Trump is fourth from the bottom.
CBS has Biden at 19th and Trump at 43rd, third from the bottom
Siena College puts Biden at 20th with Trump at 44th or 2nd from the bottom
I am guessing you will find those rankings by the experts as perplexing as well."That said, I can simply not comprehend how any person can overlook Trump's massive character flaws and still wish he the leader of America."
This is your view, which I have noted. Perhaps you can now realize I feel the very same about the Democratic party, as well as Biden.
I have noted your view, and respect that you have the right to your view, as well as to share it.
Biden 54% disapproval https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/bi … al-rating/
Trump 56% disapproval https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/po … ald-trump/
Trump and Biden neck and neck
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch … 2265797950
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … sh-vpx.cnnThose numbers won't last once it finally dawns on people that the economy is actually good.
They may not. I venture they will, many may feel as I do --- Trump would be better than the present president, and his policies, and agenda may just be so much more attractive.
Fortunately, for America's sake, not enough of you want a rapist and convicted felon (assuming that happens) in the WH to make it happen.
He lost in 2020 by 8 million votes and it will be much worse in 2024.Hopefully, there are enough that realize the Country has taken a turn down the wrong path trusting the Democrats to provide our country stability in regard to so many issues. It is yet to be discovered if Biden was running a pay-for-play business while he was VP. If this is proven, I doubt whether many would vote for him. Plus, the DNC has no one else to step up and run.
I have reservations about this line of reasoning. Have you noticed the rising costs of essential items like food, energy, and housing? Mortgage interest rates are becoming unmanageable for many aspiring homeowners. College tuition fees continue to soar, and credit card debt is at an all-time high, with reports of increasing delinquencies and bankruptcies.
The financial struggles faced by numerous citizens are concerning, and it's disheartening to see these issues receive inadequate coverage in the media. The economy often plays a pivotal role in people's voting decisions, but the future remains uncertain."
Bankruptcy Filings Rise 10 Percent
Published onJuly 31, 2023
Personal and business bankruptcy filings rose 10 percent in the twelve-month period ending June 30, 2023, compared with the previous year.
According to statistics released by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, annual bankruptcy filings totaled 418,724 in the year ending June 2023, compared with 380,634 cases in the previous year.
Business filings rose 23.3 percent, from 12,748 to 15,724 in the year ending June 30, 2023. Non-business bankruptcy filings rose 9.5 percent to 403,000, compared with 367,886 in the previous year.
Bankruptcy totals for the previous 12 months are reported four times annually. Filings over any 12-month period have increased only rarely since filings peaked in 2010. Bankruptcies fell sharply after the pandemic began in early 2020, despite some early COVID-related disruptions to the economy." https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2023/07/3 … 2C%202023.
"Mortgage interest rates fell to record lows in 2020 and 2021 during the Covid pandemic. Emergency actions by the Federal Reserve helped push mortgage rates below 3% and kept them there.
The story changed in 2022. With inflation running ultra-hot, mortgage interest rates surged to their highest levels since 2002. According to Freddie Mac’s records, the average 30-year rate jumped from 3.22% in January to a high of 7.08% at the end of October."
https://themortgagereports.com/61853/30 … pose"
Food prices
"Consumer Price Index for Food (not seasonally adjusted)
The all-items Consumer Price Index (CPI), a measure of economy-wide inflation, rose by 0.2 percent from June 2023 to July 2023 and was up 3.2 percent from July 2022. The CPI for all food increased 0.3 percent from June 2023 to July 2023, and food prices were 4.9 percent higher than in July 2022.
The level of food price inflation varies depending on whether the food was purchased for consumption at home or away from home:
The food-at-home (grocery store or supermarket food purchases) CPI increased 0.4 percent from June 2023 to July 2023 and was 3.6 percent higher than July 2022; and
The food-away-from-home (restaurant purchases) CPI increased 0.2 percent in July 2023 and was 7.1 percent higher than July 2022."
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ … -findings/
Energy costs https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation- … mmer-2023/
"Americans' credit card debt breaks record of $1 trillion as interest rates climb" https://abc7news.com/credit-cards-card- … /13633953/
"J.D. Power found that 51% of Americans can't pay off their entire balance each month and instead let it revolve to the next month, accruing interest, according to its annual credit card satisfaction survey. The remaining 49% — called transactors — can pay their bill in full each month."
https://www.google.com/search?q=people+ … p;ie=UTF-8
https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-card … tatistics/You do know why mortgage rates are where they are now, don't you? If you want the Fed to bring down inflation like they have, then things like mortgage interest rates must rise. So which do you prefer, high inflation, or high mortgage rates. (Notice Biden doesn't even enter into the equation).
"That’s troubling because from 2018 to 2022, the percentage of those rolling over balances ranged from 40% to 50%, according to J.D. Power."
Thanks for the links, ESO.
I think that these MAGA types are more deliberate than irrational, Trump offers adherence to a status quo, that while in need of consistent adjustment, they really don't want to depart from it. They are More content to allow social justice initiatives as just more incrementalism leading to nowhere. It is about social and racial status points and resentment regarding what they perceive in a zero-sum game. Much of this beginning with Barack Obama. They are an unredeemable group, having little or no value.
So, if they are "mad", there is method in their madness.What do you mean by "deliberate" when it comes to the alternate reality they live in? That they act in a "deliberate" manner to achieve the goals that make sense to them in their non-real world? If so, I can agree with that. (Alice in Wonderland where Trump keeps yelling 'off with their heads' comes to mind, lol.)
Yeah, that's pretty much why we see it as brainwashing. The right can omit the many good things this administration has accomplished for veterans, seniors, infrastructure, and our allies. They can ignore how the United States is one of the leaders in bringing inflation down as the issue was a global concern after a pandemic and most other countries we are compared with are much worse off than we are.
They can completely ignore any part their own leadership had in the many problems Biden has been faced with and simply allocate partisan blame - quite literally the greatest example of that brainwashing claim, the inability to accept any criticism for the faults of their own party. We see those examples in inflation, in the Afghanistan withdrawal, in the national debt, in the covid response.
And showing some humanity in our dealings at the border, despite it setting records since 2019, as opposed to violating the basic human rights of children is somehow seen as 'open borders.' Just shows how far from decency the far-right has gone in this country.Perhaps it is not the right that is brainwashed, but the left. So odd, That's the way I see it.
Not odd, I'm sure most people who are in a cult think they are doing the right thing. Meanwhile, everyone looking at them from the outside just cannot fathom how the thought process got so irrational.
I keep wanting to call MAGA a cult, but I don't think that is accurate, it is too big to be a cult. They are whatever you might call the tens of millions of Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, and Iranians who blindly follow their authoritarian leaders.
Speaking of references to understand the MAGA phenomenon, these interviews with the people from the Bulwark are pretty interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13dPT9Cr6u4It is a cult, alright, just a damned big one....
"Not odd, I'm sure most people who are in a cult think they are doing the right thing. Meanwhile, everyone looking at them from the outside just cannot fathom how the thought process got so irrational."
In my view, the category you're referring to represents a relatively small portion of society. I believe that the majority of Americans approach the topic of brainwashing with a high degree of prudence.
Throughout our history, there has consistently been a portion of our society characterized by hyperbolic tendencies, which can be attributed to specific personal traits.Our views differ then. As I see the amount of people in the current cult to be around 40-60% of the GOP that exists in a completely different reality.
And your view is probably right...as long as you define MAGA as a group of crazed idiots and include all those that would like to see America Great Again into that same group.
Of course, it is a completely false definition as the large majority of MAGA folks simply want the country to be free, to be prosperous and to work for everyone.If they deny reality to reach their goals, then yes, I think of them as crazed idiots.
You're walking around the door rather than passing through.
There are millions of people out there that believe in Make America Great Again, that feel our country is going downhill and want it back! And they are not crazed idiots; they are reasonable people tired of the crap being done to the citizens that helped build this country.
Far, far more than the handful of crazed idiots wearing MAGA hats while breaking into the Capitol. More by millions to one.Actually, I am using the door as some 70% of the GOP still thinks Trump won in 2020. Quite literally the definition of denying reality. And America has always been great, but one party wants to tear down our democratic norms and install their own dictator. Again, that's idiocy.
And those once "reasonable" or "rational" people no longer are when it comes to Trump. Right-wing propaganda and Trump's hate filled rhetoric has changed their neural pathways such that they now believe in an alternate reality. Truth and facts have no meaning to them.
It is neither rational nor reasonable for an American to want a convicted rapist and probable felon as president. Why do they overlook those FACTS? Because they are programmed not to believe 1) he lost in 2020, 2) the Carroll jury got it wrong, and 3) the indictments against Trump are political rather than based on solid evidence.
What additional PROOF do you need to conclude MAGA is not rational?
It is too bad that MAGA will turn America into an authoritarian country to achieve those goals.
The Politico article lays out the reasons MAGA lives in an alternate universe where facts don't matter.ESO, this is the clear and present danger if we allow the Right to continue to go unchallenged.
"Trump and his advisers are actively creating the infrastructure for him to follow through on his plans to be a dictator when/if he retakes the White House in 2025. Trump's Agenda 47 is a plan to radically remake the presidency and American government (and American society) in service to his neofascist vision that includes such goals as ending birthright citizenship, criminalizing migrants and refugees, putting homeless people in camps, instituting national stop and frisk laws, restricting freedom of the press, ending academic freedom at the country's universities and colleges and other institutions of higher education, replacing quality public education that teaches critical thinking and the country's real history with a form of fascist "patriotic" indoctrination, ending environmental regulations, more gangster capitalism and power for the richest Americans and corporations, reversing the progress of the civil rights movement and the Black Freedom Struggle, taking away the rights of gays and lesbians and other queer people, further restricting women's civil and human rights, and ending US support for Ukraine."
The notorious New York gangster, Dutch Schultz", once had an adage, "People are Dumb"
The way we are allowing this to happen with indifference proves the point.
"Of course, it is a completely false definition as the large majority of MAGA folks simply want the country to be free, to be prosperous and to work for everyone."
Yeah, in a pigs eye....
Politico, and the other sources, clearly think it is the right.
That, of course, is not saying it couldn't happen on the left. Probably the best examples of that are the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, and Iranians who support those authoritarian gov'ts. I guess I shouldn't use Iran as an example of the left, they are clearly on the right. The propaganda machines in each of those nations is no different that the right-wing propaganda machine in America. (Name me one MSM that has pled guilty to lying.)
Trump's vile mouth keeps making other people richer.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/06/politics … index.htmlThe first of many 14th Amendment cases trying to bar Trump from running for office was filed in Colorado State court. Section 3 was used in the 1800s to keep former office holders who joined the Confederacy from becoming elected to U.S. federal jobs. A similar use of Section 3 was successfully used in 2022 to keep an insurrectionist from New Mexico from holding public office.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/06/politics … index.htmlAnother MAGA loyalist admitting to the coup plot during a television interview, this one from Michigan:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-fak … 34138.htmlBecause some here wont check the link.
One of the fake electors put forward by Republicans in Michigan said in December 2020 that the plan to use a slate of fake electors to help Donald Trump win their state came together following conversations with “some very incredible constitutional attorneys” from the Trump campaign.
“I’m no constitutional attorney,” Maddock said on December 16, 2020, in an interview with local radio host Steve Gruber. “I’m an elector for Donald Trump from the Michigan Republican Party. I along with the other 15 electors were guided by legal minds – attorneys for our president, some very incredible constitutional attorneys – I’ve never in my whole life appreciated legal minds and attorneys before.”
“I can tell you that in the last few weeks, just some incredible minds,” she added. “And from what I understand, you know, you have the federal constitutional law, and then you have state statutes, um, and they’re two different things. So, what we did, uh, along with seven other states, really send in dueling electors, and that will be there before, um, you know, a federal constitutional attorney, and it’ll be before, uh, Mike Pence and Congress to make that decision.”
I beg to differ. America is the People's own country, some of whom believe in God and some of whom do not.
The 'people', believers and non-believers, are created by God. The land or country and 'we the people' are God's property. Don't you agree to these facts?
Not everybody has the same God or even believe in God. What you expressed is your own point of view that is not universally shared.
No. One of your very own a prophet, by name Kenneth Hagin, now late hint me that.
No, I don't. Those are NOT FACTS, they are conjecture by people with an agenda.
While I do believe in A god, I don't accept the version made up by the monotheists. It is just too contradictory to make any sense.
Because the Jews, Christians, and Muslims can't coordinate their stories, then I conclude none of them are right given you can only have one answer - and it isn't theirs.
Here is what I believe. The Big Bang is real. The current Universe resulted from the explosion of an infinitely small package of forces. Where those forces came from, scientists having figured out - yet.
Inside that package of forces was the blueprint for today's universe and we are still following that plan.
Now, who made that package of energy? Nobody knows. Consequently, I call it God until something better comes along. It got things rolling and then stepped out of the way.
This view of God is at least not self-contradictory as the monotheistic versions are. Most everything can be explained without contradiction if you start with my premise.Yes, I do believe the Big Bang, the Milky Way Galaxy, and the expanding Universe. I wrote some lines along these and are featured. If you had read my article, you'll see God is the creative power behind all these.
Trump LIES AGAIN. This time about Black support.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … pt-vpx.cnn
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