Health Care Reform Passed , How Do you Feel?

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AEvansposted 14 years ago
The reform passed how do you feel? What do you believe are the pros and cons? Do you believe your Congressman of your state made the correct decision? The forum is open to discussion.
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  N. Ramiusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Depressed. Guess I'll have to find a healthcare plan.
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  Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm depressed,too, but that'll pass--into renewed determination. But for the moment, we may not have to hunt a health care plan. According to a CNN article I read just prior to the bill's passage, we have until 2014 before purchasing coverage is mandated.
  
  Which means we still have a chance to knock that out without having to go to prison for refusing to pay the fines.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're channeling your inner Palin.
  
  No one's going to prison; Grandma's not gonna get euthenized.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Grandma is not going to be euthanized, she is going to be denied certain life improving procedures because its not in the interest of the greater good.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whereas before she would be denied because she was out of money.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying this isn't happening now? I know some elderly people who can't afford their medicine and try to exist by only taking half the medication prescribed.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hell, I do that myself and I'm not even elderly... or unemployed... or even uninsured...
  
  Of course if I say that something is wrong with the system that allows this to happen, then I'm merely a naive liberal who doesn't hate Obama nearly enough.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ya know , I want to start a non profit organization for that, to help the people to get their meds , I think that would be a good one, many who think they cant afford it , actually have many resources they just dont realize, my mother in law was one of them and didnt take her meds said she couldnt afford them , but I got it all worked out for her and she gets what she needs now , helping elders to do that would be a nice thing I think, of course it took three months of reading fine print and planning to get her fixed up
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that is the effort it takes. Im teaching someone to shop at the moment.. the difference between someone who buys whats on the shelf when their income is limited versus the person who makes the effort to check the price of seasonal vegetables and other items can make a big difference.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  star,
  
  There is something you and most people do not know. Those big bad drug companies will give the needy most drugs free. If your doctor writes a note to the manufacturer of the drug, with reasoning for this.
  
  Don't blame the drug companies for your not knowing this, blame your doctor. Isn't it amazing this is never talked about?
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sick to my stomach.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I feel unsurprised and I feel anticipatory.
  
  The "health care bill" was a smokescreen, albeit a very expensive smokescreen, for something.
  Time will tell what it was.....
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sir Dent just told you
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Could it be.........
  
  SOCIALISM???? (scary organ music playing in the background)
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  Paul Wingertposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whooooo Hooooo!!!! The United States ranks #35 on the list of Best Health Care Countries. Our health care if pretty pathetic and anything would be an improvement. Maybe now we can move up. Yes Cuba outranks us! Socialism? BS! Our schools, library, postal service and other programs are government sponcered and nobody bitches about that!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paul,
  
  I'll be your list doesn't tell you what is based on, you can always play with stats. Do you really want to go to Cuba for your health-care?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, if this bill stands up to the coming constitutional challenges, it will come to be a great tragedy. If not struck down by the Supreme Court this will mark the beginning of new expanded powers of the federal government to regulate EVERYTHING. This is a blow to freedom and a denunciation of the unique principles that separated America from the rest of the world. I am truly saddened by it's passage and now can only hope for a successful challenge by the states in Supreme Court to nullify it.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe our Country does not like change no matter what type of Bills are passed we will always have some fear. All we can do is watch it just may be that this is a very good plan and the cynics are trying to make us believe it is not because it wasn't there idea to begin with. Everyone single person in this Country is entitled to healthcare, ever person should not be told that they cannot be insured for XY reasons. People should not have to go bankrupt because of medical bills and the hospitals should get paid for services that people can't afford it is true complicated but I can only hope that the glitches are ironed out there is more clarity and that it does work.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I've actually looked at the bill. First, I could argue that every single person is NOT entitled to health care or anything else for that matter, but lets put that aside for the moment and let's just say you're right. This bill H.R. 3590, isn't just an insurance reform bill that prevents people from being dropped and FORCES insurance companies to cover folks with pre-existing conditions. The insurance reforms in this bill are perhaps 5 pages of the 2700 in the bill. If all this bill did was reform insurance laws, I think it would have had broad bi-partisan support.
  No, this bill is about the assumption of power and control over the entire health care system and forcing people to do what the government says is best.
  Take a look at the bill. Just scan the table of contents. I don't expect anyone will want to slog through the 2700 pages, but read the sections that catch your eye. The intrusion of government into our lives is unprecedented and the IRS will be the enforcer.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where is the information located? I have tried to find it on the Internet.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3590:
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really think that's why I'm cynical about this Juliana?
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I believe there are things that many of us may not know and there are pros and cons to everything, it is going to be a long hard road with health care reform but I am only trying to be optimistic so many of us still have to concern ourselves with putting food on our table and paying our bills I honestly am hoping and praying for the best for our Country. I know there is a lot of fear but I believe that it will all work out in the end, we just have to given it a chance.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that's where we have to disagree. I do not believe that the politicians who are paid by lobbyists have the best interest of the people at heart.
  
  Yes, I believe that people who need help should be taken care of by people who care. The problems you have mentioned are caused by heartless bureaucracy. Adding more bureaucracy simply makes the system more heartless.
  
  I don't deny that changes should be made, but changes should be made incrementally, and if they don't help, they should be repealed.
  
  Regardless of what is or is not supposed to be there, what is definitely there is more bureaucracy, and that's what I'm against, because bureaucracy is about "the rules" not about real humans.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo AE America needed to catch up with health care, and it will be cheaper for a myriad of social reasons too.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is there to discuss/
  What is there to agree or disagree with?
  Why is everyone getting so worked up?
  I haven't weighed or read the 2000+ page bill!
  If YOU haven't, you are just being emotional or political about something you know nothing about.
  This bill is like the bible, if you haven't studied it before making decisions and life changes, you are just an unthinking, emotional, political follower!
  Personally? I find you to be incredible.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is true.
  
  It may be written into this law that all Americans must submit to an annual anal probe. Who knows what is in the bill?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The anal probe provision applies only to Republicans and Libertarians!
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha ralph, yep thats what they get even when they go in for a splinter in their finger
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  you have no idea how true this will prove to be.
  
  any time the government gets involved with anything you have to slog through a jillion piles of paperwork and they never get it right anway. more government, wheee!
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deeds;
  I voted Libertarian.
  I get an anal probe every year in the form of a digital prostate exam. doesn't bother me. My health care program covers it.
  If the new bill provides this "Anal probe" for those who can't afford it...this "libertarian" is all for it!
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thankfully I am an Anarchist/ LOL
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As a Sodomite Socialist Pervert, I fully support this provision.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fonte:
  Right!
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you , I am only trying to understand peoples fears and reviewing the pros and cons. It is a very large bill but I believe that in the end it will be a memory and we will be able to reflect and realize that the bill was not so bad at all. I realize that things are not going to be perfect in our Country but we have to always give something a fighting chance before shooting ourselves in the foot. All of us may not always agree but we as a Country have to stand together and support each other it isn't the time to divide ourselves. "Together we will stand, divided we will fall." We as a nation need to stand together, face our fears and hold onto each other with all of are might! This is what makes us different from the entire World.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aevans:
  Well said!
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  Don Simkovichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A report today on Assoc Press, not a conservative news outlet, states that medical device makers are going to be hit hard. The report concluded that hospitals will likely buy less equipment, meaning even fewer manufacturing jobs.
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  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they're going to buy less then I see a huge boom in medical device repair jobs coming soon. I think we still live in the land of opportunity and we need to look more to the opportunities that this law is creating and less at what we may lose.
  
  I'm a small businessman with my own consulting firm and this law is going to require me to do something I was already going to do but now it's going to let the Govt. subsidize 35% of my initial costs and eventually 50% as long as I keep fewer than 25 employees and purchase my insurance from the exchange in 2014. By my calculations, I'll be paying roughly 4% of my payroll for health care for my employees, however, most if not all of that will be passed on to my clients and it will not put me at a competitive disadvantage since my competitors will be in the same position.
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  WebServiceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. The costs will be huge.
  
  http://ppunch.com
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With more people being able to acquire medical treatment, it would seem that more medical devices should be needed to meet the demand. So do you advise selling one's stock in the companies producing these products?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE,
  
  Remember, health-care is not a right, it is an entitlement. I'm not saying; don't help these people, there are ways to go about things without destroying others.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is LUNACY
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THIS is the attitude of the tea party folks.
  
  It's not about what's best for you or anyone else healthwise. It's about their "freedom."
  
  I wonder how many of these folks are medicare recipients who are unhappy about what is going to be taken away from THEIR socialized medicine.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't freedom what's best for everyone?
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  Don Simkovichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AEvans, good forum post. I'm concerned the bill hurts businesses large and small. Caterpillar Inc., the big equipment manufacturer, expects to spend $ 100 million in the first year alone. It appears that mandates will be slapped on smaller companies with more than 25 employees. It's going to make business owners stop before they hire a worker or give raises.
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  Williamjordanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Health care was it really necessary? Will it work and a capitalist scoiety? Or is this the frist step to scoialism?
  Can everyone afford health care? These are the questions we should be asking thats my point of veiw.Some type of reform was needed for senior's and their meds,but a complete overhaul was not necessary.
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logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago
Extremely ill! We will be raped even harder now!
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you feel that way?
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because they did not use logic or commonsense! They tried to placate those that screamed the loudest! They are forcing us to buy insurance! They gave sweetheart deals to buy votes! They have no idea how much it will really cost the taxpayer! It takes us further down the road to insolvency as a nation! We will not be taken down by outside forces, but those from within! Young people will be forced to pay for those that have made bad life choices! It is not about health care, it is about the ego of the president! They did not address one of the biggest costs of healthcare-tort reform! They did not address the idiocy of not letting companies sell insurance nationwide! So and so on!
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Bravo!!!!!!!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  logic,
  
  Well said.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really believe Obama had much to do with this? He doesn't have the brains or the life experience to write a bill this massive and complicated. In fact, I think he was the Democrat's candidate for President because he had the same ideology as the liberal/socialists that were building in the Congress before the Presidential election. Besides, this bill was in the works before Obama was a candidate. Obama is merely a mouthpiece for something much larger.
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donotfearposted 14 years ago
I feel like going to get a mammogram.
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ohhhhh....wait!!! I need to stock up on my Prozac.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha thats the right answer!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DNF,
  
  Normal males want all ladies to fet one to have two.
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lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago
What exactly will this mean for the ones who have no income or job?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lynn,
  
  It's absolutely free for them. Wait until they add 12 million illegal immigrant to the list, Doctor's quit, patients have know one with time to see them, etc. Obama is sending the country down. But it is phased in over years so people won't feel it all at once.
  
  Watch you taxes!
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The figure 12 million dates to 2005. Try 20 million.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting question...with no income or job you can't be fined a certain percentage of your income so you'll probably go to jail.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What? I don't believe that is written anywhere they are not going to put people in jail because they have no income that is not logical especially with the over-crowded jail system. Wouldn't that be a silly charge?
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One would think so, but nowhere in the bill does it address what you're going to do with people who have no job or income. People get put in jail all the time for not paying fines. I'm not saying it makes sense, but then again nothing about this bill makes sense.
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't scoured the bill itself for info on this, but news reports are saying the following:
  
  "The first year, consumers who did not have insurance would owe $95, or 1 percent of income, whichever is greater. But the penalty would subsequently rise, reaching $695, or 2 percent of income."
  
  "Families who fall below the income-tax filing thresholds would not owe anything. Nor would people who cannot find a policy that costs less than 8 percent of their income, said Sara R. Collins, a vice president at the Commonwealth Fund, an independent nonprofit research group."
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/your- … er.html?hp
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds fair and workable. We need more people who look up and provide facts along with their opinions. (I should do more of that myself! My wife says I'm too opinionated. But of course all my opinions are correct!)
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph,
  
  Point of persoal procedure. I want a vot taken.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My grandmother is going to rot in jail over this. I have passport in hand and heading underground.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE, No income, no jail. They will take over 2% of your income if you can afford it. If not you will pay less. That's the Constitutional point. Can the gov't make you buy a good?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can we get free health care in jail?
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  i just love life's little ironies...
  
  Obama said last night, rather arrogantly, "This is what change looks like."
  
  looks like entitlement to me <---wee angry face
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. For you in jail and for all the illegals it's free.
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AEvansposted 14 years ago
I was reviewing this link http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform
it paints a different picture.
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Of course it does!!!!
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I'm a sodomite
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  EXCELLENT!
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Harvey!!!!!!! Help! I'm gonna need more couneseling in addition to psychotherapy!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Whitehouse is now an extension of the Chicago mob. The press does not report it, but Rod Blagojevich and Barack Obama are part of the same organization, neither got where they are without a little help from organized crime.
  
  Let's look at some history. The mob took over organized labor, and looted the pension funds.
  
  "Legal Gambling" in Illinois was supposed to pay for education. It's an open secret that gambling in Illinois is run by the mob.
  
  Thousands of teachers in Illinois are being laid off because Blagojevich (i.e. the mob) took the money intended for education and now the school systems are all broke.
  
  The "white house" (i.e. the mob) now owns our health insurance. Everything on the web site is designed to calm you while the ruling class loots our money.
  
  You do know that the senate rejected an amendment that would have made the congress have to use the same health care plan as the rest of us, right? If it's so awesome, why didn't they want it?
  
  They made us an offer we can't refuse.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't know that they rejected it! I didn't hear that part anywhere on CNN. They said that the bill would give all people the opportunity to have the same health care as the elite. I don't know I guess I will sit back and see how it all plays out and pray for the best.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The ruling class owns CNN.
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  Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because if the People knew this, they would be more outraged at the politician and against this Bill!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE,
  
  Most govt. figures end up being incorrect. Think about this: Social Security began with paying in if you chose to, it became mandatory.
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donotfearposted 14 years ago
I better get in line....I'm over 50. Ready to get bumped to the back.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DNF,
  
  Almost 61 and handicapped. They will want me out of the system.
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china manposted 14 years ago
Nothing to do with me outside the US of A but from out here it is hard to understand what can be wrong about trying to get medical care to all of the people. The opposition seems (from out here) to be well-off people who don't care about those less fortunate - this is also becoming the world-view of Americans from the non-Chinese people that I mix with (out here). Chinese people don't seem to have any opinion about this (just for the record).
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a much lower caliber of Patiotism by the American Rich, than existed during the Kennnedy years. It's all about what they can strip this Country of. Not what they can do to improve it.
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  Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just to note: I'm against it 1,000%...and I'm far from rich. For most of my 66 years, I've been on a self pay, pay as you go basis--and no, I don't show up at emergency rooms. I handle my own preventive medicine, knowing my own body far better than any doctor I've ever met. When I need a doctor, I hire one--such as for a necessary hernia repair performed on March 1, 2006.
  
  I met with the surgeon ONLY as a get-to-know-each-other consultation prior to the operation. It was done under local anaesthesia. I checked in at 8:00 a.m., was strapped to a table and watching the monitors shortly thereafter, calmly advised the staff when my body began going into shock, they handled that, showed me my "chicken fat" (belly fat, since discarded), and I was out of the hospital by 11:30 a.m.
  
  Financial negotiations were done in advance. Rates and payments were agreed upon, and the whole thing (doctor plus hospital) cost me something like $3200 when all was said and done. This was at a small town hospital in western Montana.
  
  I'm willing to be proved wrong, but I seriously doubt many similar operations will be performed in the U.S. under the new system at rates anywhere near that economical. Since my 20s, I've been convinced insurance is no more than mankind's feeble effort to duck karma.
  
  And I definitely detest the strongarm approach of the feds forcing me to buy insurance I neither want nor need "or else".
  
  My wife is extremely disabled on many different fronts. Her medical needs are not cheap. Yet we told the government to take her disability and state medical insurance money and shove it...and got married anyway. Even in her case, then, we've been strictly self pay since May of 2006. Hospitals, doctors, and pharmacies we deal with all know we're self pay. As such, they give us what discounts are available, and some are, especially for cash on delivery of services.
  
  Truly, our detestation for socialized medicine knows no bounds.
  
  Much of my time--at least 10 or more hours per week for the next several years--will be devoted to supporting any and all efforts to repeal this monstrosity.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
I'm going to invite more Cubans into the country now. They can come here without giving up their healthcare benefits!
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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saltposted 14 years ago
Congratulations!!! Australia has a tax payer funded health system and nobody is told to leave a hospital... we would have been embarrassed to have the american system... although you do do medicine well...

Even our right wing politicians agree with this now. We value our health system. So congratulations, we are happy to see americans care about americans!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Australia has a better handle on reality and fewer people to deal with. Besides, I've never met an Ausie who couldn't kick my butt with both hands tied behind his back. Any health care system will work their because you guys are freakin' impervious to germs.
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  Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The only Aussie I've known well on a personal basis was a fellow trucker. We drove for the same company, full time night shift, hauling water to drilling rigs in the western Colorado mountains. I don't know that he could have kicked my butt, even with two hands and a couple of feet. He did still have his teeth, though, so he'd have been automatically ahead when it came to biting.
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logic,Commonsense made it perfectly clear. Let the sick and dying eat cake and just die. He said "Young people will be forced to pay for those that have made bad life choices!"
  
  Ok...The rich are different I guess. I have no explanation for such an UNAMERICAN ideal. These people have no regard for their fellow man or woman. But we do have Bill Gates and Oprah millions of other good people in this Country we can be proud of.
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AEvansposted 14 years ago
In the healthcare reform package on line it says that we can still continue to use our own doctors and in the healthcare reform package all inusrance companies have to take pre-exisiting condition so I am a little confused on why people would not wish to have a choice.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My dad told me to believe only half of what I read! When it comes to politicians, believe little or nothing as they just make it up!
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I hope for the best and I also agree with 100 dollar mark , I am not keen with "required" because it does take away choice but what percent of our Country would really not choose to have health coverage? I understand your concern when it comes to the cost of the taxpayer but shouldn't we just wait and see how it works? I believe healthcare is beneficial for millions of people and now Insurance companies cannot turn there backs.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How many things have you seen that government do well? Medicaid will soon run out of money and Social Security everyone says needs fixing before it goes broke, but no one has the balls to step up and do it.
  The cash for clunkers cost you and me over 180,000 per car!
  I have worked with politicians, I know how the system works, or rather I know how it doesn't!
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You just told on yourself, lololo were you a politician? just kidding. I hope it works because our Country truly needs something positive to happen.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If Congress and the President would resign immediately that would be the most positive thing we could have!
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well we know that isn't going to happen but we honestly do need something good to come out of the mess that this Country has been going through for years. Here is my take on our Country;
  
  It doesn't matter if we are Democrat or Republican we as Americans are not happy unless we are complaining. We are the same people that vote in so many of them with there broken promises so all we can honestly do now is sit and watch because truly none of them are listening to the voices of the American people. If only Kennedy were here.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He'd be a Republican! He was way to the right of the people in charge of the Democrats these days.
  I'm not complaining, I am outraged! I bust my ass every day to care of me and mine. Everyday I am being robbed at governmentpoint to satisfy the ego of those in Washington! I enjoy helping others, I just want to control who and how much! I believe I have the intelligence to make the right choices for myself!
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My dad told me the same thing about people who used an alias.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Taking preexisting conditions is not the biggest problem. How much can they charge for coveragoe for someone who had an enlarged heart? Diabetes? etc. . .?
  
  How about those who make little money. Many work for minimum wage and will not be able to afford healthcare. Are they going to be forced to get coverage?
  
  Why not take away some of the golden umbrellas that we heard so much about a couple years ago?
  
  All it is about is sticking it to the working class. That's what it's always about. The elite float freely on the backs of those who paddle the boat.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the bill they were providing tax credits for those who could not afford health insurance the bill is supposed to allow everyone health coverage so after reviewing all of the information on line and listening to all of the pros and cons on television I believe we should give it a chance but it is only my opinion.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll second your opinion.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know you mean well, but I've seen the back room and I know how dirty this really is! We would be money ahead if we gave the people without insurance, the money to pay their premiums! The bill will still not cover everyone, I guarantee it! This aint my first rodeo!
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One of the things I dearly, dearly love about you Julianna, is your kind heart and eternal optimism.
  
  That's why this package makes me doubly angry, it's a betrayal of people like you who want to believe good things.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They've already built a prototype euthanasia machine for pre-existing conditions. It looks like a port-a-potty. You step in. The machine goes ZZZAAAPPP. And your pre-existing condition is fixed. And so are you.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm assuming you're joking. That's the worst thing I've heard.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sarah?
  
  Is that you?
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you betcha!
  
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if you don't make enough money then you get tax credits enough to be able to afford it . everyone gets healthcare now. you can take the same plan from job to job. they can't not cover pre existing conditions and they can't start raising your premiums when you get sick to force you out.this is good for. . . .everybody!
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you think the biggest problem is? The entire idea of insurance is that everyone (covered) pays into a pool and some benefit more than others. It's a gamble. You put money in to bet that you don't get sick, but lose if you don't. If you do get sick and the illness costs more than you put in then you win.
  
  They'll get a subsidy from the government.
  
  Why not take the huge profit potential in the health-care system away. There was a time when most doctors worked for themselves; what they put in is what they got back out. They also did a lot of pro bono work as a way to pay back to the community.
  
  That's gone now. A doctor works for a company (most of them anyway) and his/her profit picture is impacted by the ability to crank patients out and keep the HMO, PPO, whatever profitable.
  
  The working class has been getting "stuck" for decades. Someone always finds a way to nibble a bit here and there.
  
  That's what this reform is attempting to correct. I doubt it will work for that long though if it works at all. People who get rich on the labor of others are quite clever at figuring out how to do that over and over again. And if they can't do it with smarts they'll do it with legislation.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE,
  
  You are quite naive! Wait for Doctors start giving up their practices, tell me about how things work then Nurse. There is so much more to it, please read my Hubs AE.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I gotta ask, when your predictions don't come true, what will you do?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What he always does. Retreat to his parallel universe where it didn't actually happen.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doctors have been giving up their practices for quite some time now, Harvey, due to the problems of the existing health care system.
  I saw three doctors just last week (I have a chronic health problem) and all 3 of them were on board with the bill. Completely on board.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because of respect I will read your hubs I have always been a swing voter so are you trying to sway my vote? lolololo
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  Manly Manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Harvey, why would doctors want to give up their practices? Most of them don't have the talent to become rock musicians and there's no shortage of waiters.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  While I agree with your stand on the political issues, AEvans is many, many things but nobody who has lived the life she has can be naive.
  
  She is has remained an optimistic person through horrific circumstances that would turn many lesser people into jaded cynics. That is to be encouraged, not ridiculed.
  
  In this case, I believe the Chicago machine has abused that optimism, but that is the fault of the mob, not her.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have a doctor. I don't want one. I don't have insurance. I don't want it. I would like to be able to choose NOT to pay for other people's illnesses and to deal with my own in the way I see fit. This bill has removed my ability to choose those things.
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  Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you unfortunately get sick or hurt, guess who will end up paying for your expensive medical bills? If you cannot pay, then your credit will be shot.
  
  Then guess who ends up paying for your medical bills?
  
  With this bill, now you will be able to have medical insurance and go and get a routine checkup to uncover any areas of concern with your health such as high cholesterol and so on. Likewise, preventive measures can be taken before anything serious develops.
  
  For example, I am in good shape, exercise, and eat well. When I got a mandatory checkup 5 years ago for a summer internship, I told the doctor that she will find nothing wrong with me. However, she believed she would since heart disease runs in my family.
  
  She checked my entire body including heart and blood pressure. Everything solid. However, when my blood work results came back, I had borderline high cholesterol.
  
  Ever since then I have taken 10mg of Lipitor every other day. This is unreal. I was taking Lipitor at the age of 28. However, this will slow down the artery clogging that can lead to heart attacks and strokes later in life. Since then my total cholesterol has stayed below 200 (fluctuating between 145-185).
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE,
  
  Many doctors may leave the profession; then what do you do?
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think they will or would.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What will the doctors do? Dig ditches? Run 7-11s? Many doctors in Canada left for greener pastures in the US...most of them came back...
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The10DollarMarkposted 14 years ago
I'm glad.

I hate how pessimistic people are really. We want change, but we don't want to try out a bill that's been thought out by the people we put in charge and their experts? Sure, it could end up "raping" us. But maybe it'll help us, like it's meant to. It's all about giving the bill a chance.

A little positive thinking goes a long way.

The only part I don't like much is that health care is "required". But with business being required to provide health care, and having the dependent age extended to 26, more people will get health care.

And for those who are poor, government subsidies and programs will be put in place so that they can indeed afford a health care plan, including more medicaid coverage and eligibility.

Even if it ends up failing, at least somebody tried to fix a broken system. Then we can use that failure to come up with an ever better plan. And if it doesn't fail, then yippee!

Edit:
Besides, the majority of governments with great health care use a government mandated system. The US is just too scared of socialism because of the legacy of the Cold War (even though socialism isn't communism, but a lot of people treat it the same).
A purely government regulated system would be best, and I'm sure future bills will try to address that.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ..."try out" a little more socialism???
  
  what country are you from?...you don't seem to have a sense of individual liberty, or sovereignty for country.
  
  I watched the whole day and night on cspan...the democrats had not intent to hear ideas from the republicans...I am more positive than most, but I have seen them in action...working things out was not on the agenda...
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  The10DollarMarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I live in the US actually. I was born and raised in France, but that was when I was a kid (until 11) so it doesn't count.
  
  And there's nothing wrong with a little socialism. I never understood why so many people are against it. Lots of European countries have implemented some socialism in their system and have come out great.
  
  Sure their taxes are higher, but the government covers so many finances that in the end they actually end up with more money.
  
  I still say a positive note is important for change. Let's just see how it goes before we tear it all apart eh? Heck, they didn't even go with the public option (yet...I'm sure it's coming).
  
  Even if it ends up failing, at least someone tried. Better than sticking to the current system where a ton of people are uninsured or underinsured.
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't and won't speak about the french government, since I've never lived there, but our government is incapable of spending any money wisely so it costs more, not less than if we kept our money ourselves. That's why we have a gazzillion dollar deficit.
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  The10DollarMarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lol yeah. That's true.
  That's probably the biggest concern with the reform in America. It's not that the ideas aren't good, it's that we can't trust our own politicians not to waste money and make people pay up the difference.
  
  *crosses finger* I believe in the power of positive thinking, positive thinking, positive thinking..... come on.
  
  Hey, maybe we should have the countries with the best health care/work conditions (I know that's not what we're talking about, but that needs reform too...) to come and tell us their secrets. Like a round table sharing of ideas.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The ten,
  
  Try out a health-care system. Well after 100,000 die, we can change it. You don't play games with things of importance. Unfortunately that is what we are going to do.
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  The10DollarMarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't bring in made up hypothetical statistics. Every law is a game with people's lives. Every law could technically cause 100,000 people to die or have their lives significantly changed for the worse. The truth is lawmaking is a type of game - where ideally you help as many people as possible.
  
  Besides, would you rather keep the current system? A system where a lot of poor and young people can't afford health care at all? You may not believe health care is a right, but it is. Even in medieval times, many doctors would adjust their rates so that poor people could afford the majority of common treatments.
  
  Though I do agree that more investing towards cheap and readily available preventative measures would be better than having expensive nationwide ER care.
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  some drs still get the eggs and fruit baskets from patients...
  
  I am grateful for our system in australia. Id like to know where we are on the global list for health care.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a link to a New England Journal of medicine article and chart showing how Australia compares to the U.S. and Sweden. It doesn't show the ranking, but you can find it by poking around World Health Organization info. or with a Google search. I don't have time to find the ranking right now.
  
  http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2610
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The WHO 2000 report is the most often cited, which puts Australia at number 32 and the US at number 37, but it's been criticized all over the place - and they've never repeated it, because they admitted it was too hard to get a result that meant anything, because no one can agree what the parameters should be.
  
  A report on preventable deaths was published in 2008 which had France as the best, Australia 3rd and the USA 19th (there were only 19 countries in the survey!). Which supports what Earnesthub said about preventive medicine working.
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tony0724posted 14 years ago
More stuff I get to pay for that I don't agree with.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, but you've still got the Chargers to root for.......
  
  Ooooh sorry.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  tony,
  
  You will be shocked when you find out all the taxes and fees.
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AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years ago
Kind of oogly
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The10DollarMarkposted 14 years ago
If you just believe politicians are liars and go with that, you will never be satisfied.

Politicians have been lying since the days of chiefs and cavemen. If you just assume everything goes to rot because they're all corrupt, then that's the way it will be. Think positively and maybe those lying politicians will actually do a few good things while in office eh? I'm not saying back everything they say, but try not to be cynical about everything they say.
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saltposted 14 years ago
In australia, we choose our own drs - our health insurance doesnt cover dr visits, but does hospital and specialist and surgery...

If you go to a public hospital you will always be treated, no matter what income level, insurance or no insurance. Sometimes its better for people to say they have no insurance here, as the public system will slug you.. even if you earn over 100000 a year, medicare healthcare in hospitals is always available.. in the public hospital system, you do have to have the drs there .. and most are excellent. If you dont like them, you can make a noise and a different dr would generally be found.

We are grateful for our health care system and when hospital staff start saying your lucky your not in asia, you know that
they are not up to scratch ... we do pay for our hospitals through the tax system.. and we are grateful.

There are people who use the hospital system to dry out from drug or alcohol abuse, but maybe that is a social issue that we havent dealt with effectively, with drug and alcohol use being
accepted as the norm... my idea, when in a cynical mood is that after a drug patient has been through a hospital cycle, that they do rubbish duty to pay for their hospital stay.. so everyone knows they were on what ever. You could have different community service jobs for different abuses....

Often drug or alcohol abuse is a sign of something else not right in someones life and maybe that should be looked at.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
Pretty disgusted, frankly. If it's such a damned great bill why aren't the politicians subject to it?

Looks like I'll either be packing my bags and finding a new place to live or going to jail.
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Because, my friend, they are 'of the Elite'.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DNF,
  
  It is because of POWER.
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Right Blackposted 14 years ago
Just goes to show that elections have consequences. If you don't like this plan get rid of all those who voted for it and let's repeal this monster.
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  Aley Martinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I fell vindicated! I have not had health insurance in years! And I need it!
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I concur
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right,
  
  That will take place in November, but Obama will still have the veto. I don't think there will be enough seats changing.
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PrettyPantherposted 14 years ago
I feel relieved. Relieved that the crazies didn't win this time. Relieved that Democrats actually got something done.
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  N. Ramiusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Congrats for paying for my health insurance.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I second that. America is one of the last countries to have free health care. Bravo.
  By the way, I thought the timing of it was terrible. It will hurt some people in a flat economy for sure.
  
  Our Australian Federal Government wants to take over a large part of our states health provision at this time, and again, although not in bad shape, our economy is not up to speed to be able to do it comfortably yet.
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Our federal govt wanting to take over health care might be dangerous.... with the liberals very quiet through all of this, you might find that this is really what the rightwing liberals want, ... lead Rudd into this and then (well, they have to win the election first) then have speedo man tony, John Howards pool boy, ummm, only just thought of that one! take over health and guess what type of health system he would advocate???
  
  nothing like distressing the masses a little, especially when a few medical negligence cases might raise their head ..
  
  also, not sure on the legalities, but how does this work constitutionally? This is about state and federal powers... not about us as people.. remember that. This is political egos, nothing else... and if they wanted to fund it properly they can easily.... Rudd is a queenslander, their health system was the worst in the country or the most privatized.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi salt, yes I have been listening to Tony or the mad monk as I prefer to see him since Keating was PM.
  The deal is to rip it out of the states share of the GST that is paying for it now. I don't see any legal problems with doing it this way ... if if it were done properly, a doubtful outcome I reckon, but if we get a few more clever women in key portfolios like health we could sort it out.
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  equality of representation is excellent. Whether a man or woman takes on the role is not the issue. The objective would be a good all round health system. Ahd a good person in the job.
  
  I know WA does it well. When I was a student, I could go to a dentist of my choice for 25% percent of the full cost and this saved going to a public dentist, or not eating if I paid for it full price.
  
  Well, WA did do it well, I am unsure since the bizarre property boom that has really upset many ... small 1 bedroom flats in perth, more expensive than if you lived in New York.
  
  Adelaide seems to do well too, alot of places include insurance etc in their employment packages there.. sleepy little adelaide might have beaten us all.. and aboriginal health and education should be first priority. Not the expensive North Shore schools.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I like some parts of it, but I'm very concerned about the huge cuts in Medicare. I also hate the parts of the bill that are totally unfair - certain groups and certain areas get perks while others don't.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The reconcilliation bill cuts most (not every dime) of the special deals out.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doug,
  
  Do you know what you're saying?
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pinkyleeposted 14 years ago
i still fully dont understand but from what i can gather it comes down to this: sounds like they are trying to control us even more and force us to shell out more money to the gov therefore putting us in even more debt as a country
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The bill reduces the defict and does not reduce your ability to choose your doctor or insurance company. Fact check the wingnut claims and then tune the noise machine out.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The CBO is forced to use the assumptions given to it by Congress. If you really believe the bill is going to reduce the deficit, you're either drinking the kool aid or insane.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doug,
  
  That's what they are saying. Have you ever known of a bill that accomplishes that? Why do we always borrow from Peter to pay Paul.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You must have drank the whole keg of Kool Aid!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pinky,
  
  That's it in a breakdown.
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Kenrick Chatmanposted 14 years ago
I feel good. Now I will wait for the Senate Democrats to finish the job in regards to the fixer bill.
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Danny R Handposted 14 years ago
I really don't understand why so many people are uspset with this bill. I do understand that alot of people are spewing false information. IF that information were correct, I would be just as pissed off as anybody else. However, most of the negative information I've been seeing, are either wrong, or misinformed. I have made comments before in these forums in regards to the publics lack of energy in concerns with finding out the REAL facts. One: Although the bill mandates insurance, it allows an umbrella for those making less than 88000 a year.
Two: Yes it will cost 2. some trillon dollars, but the bill outlines how they intend to pay for it. This was not done by the party in majority when the votes were made for an injust war! Three, Also, and this burns my ass, we never hear any complaints from the republicans when debts are being incurred for some type of legislation that benifits corporate, or rich America. Yet when something is put forth that will help the working class or the poor, all we hear is how were unamerican, or how were destroying our country. The Republicans have been harping about how this is being done behind closed doors, and the democrates are telling us whats good for us. Excuse me, but this is ALL I've been hearing from REPUBLICANS. Whats good for us and what I want. And THEY ARE WRONG! These people who have built a larger deficit,( which creates a larger debt), than any other adminastration in our history, are trying to say that Healthcare is wrong, but war is right. They are ok with spending 10 BILLON dollars a month to kill people, but not budgeted money to treat thier own countrymen. It's ridiculous. Do yourselves a favor, and research what is in the bill before you spew anymore crap!
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  poignant
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saltposted 14 years ago
we have voluntary health insurance with private insurance companies and a public system that is excellent...I can understand how americans may fear what they think is communism... etc, but our drs do well out of it...they are trained inthe public system and we have some pretty good medical people. A few not so brilliant, but you get that anywhere...

our public system is called medicare and averages about 3% taxable income-increasing with higher income and a rebate for private insurance, as we all pay for the public system, whether we have private cover or not.
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lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago
Well, that would solve a lot wouldn't it and hmmm don't you earn a bit of income while in jail and don't they have an infirmary. Sounds better than what I have now plus they supply food and clothing, pay all the utilities. Yep better than what I have now.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Except that you get raped in jail. I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time with that one.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think you are pretty enough to worry too much about that.
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  lynnechandlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not if you friend the right people, I can be real friendly.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps so Lynne, but I doubt very much I'd enjoy the attentions of a big biker named Bubba.
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  lynnechandlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll restate this since I think it got buried:
  
  And this is all you are concerned about, being someones biatch? Honestly, that is the last thing any of us should be worried about right now.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it's not my only concern, but a bit of levity in a dark time.
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  Manly Manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not if you're a Manly Man!
  
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My. oh, my.
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  lynnechandlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Love it and to bad we couldn't have coed facilities.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those aren't real muscles. They beefed up using steroids. You can always tell the difference.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They look ok to me
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  my goodness!!!! lolololo
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lynn,
  
  They want a really good friend.
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you get raped in jail? Just asking, otherwise how would you know that people get raped in jail?
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i would know because i dated a guy that was in and out of jail a lot and he saw it happen all the time ... hell come to think of it it may have happened to him
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since you seem to be an idiot, let me help you:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape
  
  I'll even highlight the relevant portions since you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension:
  
  http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/ … eport.html
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was just teasing. No harm intended. I apoligize if I ruffled your feathers.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Seems to me, the way things are now, you get raped either way - in or out of prison.
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  couldnt have said it better **waves legs at my fav spider**
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. *waves legs at my favorite pinky*
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe not, no legislation has the force of law until tested in the courts. This legislation, due to its unprecedented mandates on the American people, will make it to the Court. Even with Soto in there, we've got a good crop of stricter constitutionalists in there than we did, say in 1960.
  
  If all else fails I'd expect to see the states call a Constitutional Convention in the next year or so.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I assume that things are already being written for the courts...I'll be watching out to see how things go.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Florida state attorney general has a suit ready to go. Quite a few others are either joining him or have plans to file their own suits. Not only that 38 states have passed, are working on, or plan to work on legislation to block federal mandates to buy insurance. It's possible that could run into the supremacy clause, but 38 states is a constitutionally significant number.
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That tells me that many states have their hands in the corruption when it comes to putting caps on Insurance and not allowing people common decency to provide healthcare. I believe all people are entitled to healthcare. Our state is broke, our unemployment rate is high and our state will pick and choose who has healthcare. We have many who do not have any which is very unfortunate so 38 states rising against change again that tells me that there is something far deeper then what meets the eye. My question is why? Why waste there taxpayers money to fight a battle in which they can lose? How about creating jobs? Taking the homeless off the streets and feeding people in there states? Stop home foreclosure? Better yet give our military men and woman raises for defending this Country at least the money would be going to something with true purpose.
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  couldnt have said it better
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why is anybody entitled to health care? Are we also entitled to a free car because 33 Million people don't have one? Are we entitled to free food from the grocery store because some people are hungry? Where does the entitlement end?
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  BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You won't hear me telling you that there is not corruption at every level of government, but I work for a small health insurance company.
  
  I assure you that when a call from an insurance commissioner comes in, it is NOT to thank us for tickets to the big game, or donations to a campaign fund (I know we don't do those things anyway ... I answer directly to the president of the company).
  
  Granted, we are a very small company ... the laws are there for a reason. Much of the expense of insurance is passed on to allow us to hire people to assure we comply with the laws. Additional levels of bureaucracy mean we have to spend more money. Costs will go up. Period. The government (i.e. Chicago mob) will then paint me as a bad guy, because I work for an insurance company, and then "ride to the rescue" with a "public option".
  
  The states are broke because the federal government is mandating spending money they don't have. It is an insidious form of tyranny. They pass laws that the states cannot comply with, and then "ride to the rescue". The states cannot comply with some of the provisions in this bill. A few dollars in courts will save millions more in local tax revenues.
  
  I say THANK GOD for the people in our state governments who have the courage to stand up to the corruption in Washington that are willing to fight just as hard in court for our freedoms as the men in women in uniform do. They may spend millions but if they prevail they will save billions.
  
  The oath is to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; " The fight with foreign enemies is often military, domestic, often legal.
  
  Our founding fathers knew that power corrupts and put checks and balances in at all levels. That the states are fighting this gives me hope that all of our checks and balances have not failed.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AE,
  
  The gov't doesn't get more control of you.
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P1 SpareNoneposted 14 years ago
The health reform bill is clearly just one more tool the government uses in its never-ending struggle to control society. First it was the income tax, put into play in 1913 (which never was passed by the way, there is no judicial obligation of the American people to pay taxes on wages or labor in the private sector), and now this, forcing us, FORCING US, to pay for health insurance. Where did liberty go? Where is our precious "Freedom of Choice"? When did this nation lose its independence? The absence of health insurance should NOT be punishable by fines and/or imprisonment, it should be punishable by having a huge bill at the end of a doctor's visit. The big banking and business interest in America (the ones who own everything, including the media, press, and any other form of news circulation), want more control over our lives, treating us like sheep. This bill is going to frustrate some people, anger others, and yet still, relieve certain other groups. But here's the truth folks: The one and only reason this bill, or any other bill that takes away any amount of our freedoms, was passed, is to prepare us for what's coming. It's main purpose it just barely expose us to being controlled and forced just a little more, then a little more, and it started with Rockefeller in 1913, when America came off the Gold Standard. Ever heard of RFID? Look it up, and love it, because it's coming. And of course, being the geniuses that they are, they WILL make it seem like a good thing, almost an urgent necessity. They'll make it hard to not want, maybe even putting it in our driver's licenses, rendering us immobile without it. This is scary stuff people, and we as a nation need to defend ourselves from our government, we NEED to say enough is enough! We are NOT cattle to be led, and as far as Obama is concerned, he's just the front man, the one who'd put in place to obsorb what the people have to say, meanwhile behind the curtain, the plan's already being put into practice. Obama is not a major leader in this country, nor has any other President since well before Reagan. We're just being prepared and smoothed over to trust what's headed our way, just so we don't put up too much of a fuss, but it may already be too late if no one rebels. I hate to see what this country's become, it's destroyed, for the sole purpose of making the rich richer, and the poor poorer. Do you have an uncle that fought in a war? How about a father? A son? Why do you think they fought, so big bankers could rob us of all our freedoms and control us with a Communist Central Bank (of which already exists, and the euro will be the World Currency)? NO! Of course they didn't! They fought for the freedom of their loved ones! So we could enjoy this wonderful life, free of predators like our government! Open your eyes people, please. This "bill" is so much more than "required health care", it's another step to Communism in America. We're already Fascist, corporations own everything. Some, just some, researching you should look up and understand, in full-depth, to determine how serious the government is about our well-being, are as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-freq … tification

----scroll on down to the "human implantation" section, and see how you feel about how much the governemt's concern for our "well being".

To further understand how concerned our government is for us, go to google, wikipedia, or any other site with a search engine, and simply type in the words "Japanese Americans 1942". Good, honest, American citizens were placed into internment camps and held as prisoners, against their will, because their parents were born in the wrong country. Rights aren't rights if someone can strip you of them whenever they please.

There are plenty of instances in American history that blatantly prove that we mean nothing to those that make, enforce, and benefit from the laws in this country. Call this health care bill whatever you want, the truth is that it's just a stepping stone to prepare us a little bit more for their plan of NWO, the World Bank, and a One World Government, so it doesn't hit us all at once. All it does is ensure no revolution. Get ready folks, this nation's freedom-days are over.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Suggest you read this book.
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  StormRyderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think a lot of people should read that book Ralph!!
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  The Dix Viewposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Ralph, the Book is, of course, a good call! Healthcare passed, and I feel great! And I'm happy that some of ther burden of the deficit will be lifted from my son. I choose to believe the CBO version over the Karl Rove Chalk Board Version. Then again, I haven't yet read the book, but I did see the movie, does that count?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dix,
  
  Has a gov't program lowered the debt yet. We borrow from Medicare for something and don't pay it back. You son is up the creek.
  
  They are playing it smart fazing things in, wait until you see all the taxes and fees.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you volunteering to keep track of all that including cost of living, inflation and deflation adjustments?
  
  Someone should. Rather than rubbing that crystal ball and telling us all what you see I hope you put your money where your mouth is and prove how bad it gets...you know, with facts.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the healthcare bill wouldn't do that. we already have medicare and that pre-exiting condition thing was deadly. For that i don't care what ideology it falls under because breathing is breathing.the biggest thing that falls along the lines of your discussion is the homeland securities act. It gave the govt the capability to violate your individual privacy eavesdropping ,wiretapping etc.That's dick cheny and bush. The conservative supreme court repealed the tillman act another move for the corporations(big money)and in the lines of this discussion.And lastly you mentioned the people revolting like in the sixties. Well then you could be labeled a terrorist, have no rights, be swept away and never be seen again and never have a trial. So what you have said has some merit and or it's maybe something to watch because everything certainly has coincidently fallen in place huh? hmmm!
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  P1 SpareNoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  okay....
  the homeland securities act was put well into play before bush and cheney. clinton screened millions of american citizens' calls WAY before there was a terrorist threat; that's just standard practice. and i didn't say anything about the sixties, or the counterculture, and i didn't say anything about revolting, but that a little more, then a little more, then a little more, would ensure no revolution happened. i am in no way expressing or implying that i am part of a revolution or any organization with an agenda to "take over", i'm simply a guy online expressing how i feel about the situation. i am not a terrorist, and such an accusation is uncalled for. i'm just saying that there is more to the picture than a law requiring us to have health-care.
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
For those who are fact impaired -

32 Million Americans will have access to health care who did not. As Dr. Gupta pointed out on CNN, people without insurance don't get ANY preventative care, or early diagnostic care. They show up at the ER when an illness is serious, possibly incurable state. No one with an ounce of compassion can argue FOR a system that asks millions to suffer to ensure high profits for insurance companies &/or low taxes for the ultra-rich.

The CBO estimates the bill will REDUCE the deficit by 130 Billion in the first decade and REDUCE the deficit by 1.3 TRILLION in the second decade.

People who have pre-existing conditions can't be denied coverage. Your kids can stay on the parent's policy until age 26. The practis of rescinding coverage if you get sick will end. No annual caps.

In the last year that I saw figures, 800,000 Americans who HAD health insurance (of some kind) had to declare bankruptcy sue to medical bills. That should end.

The bill does NOT provide coverage to illegal aliens.

The bill does NOT provide coverage for elective abortion.

To answer the question how do I feel? Elated, joyful, euphoric, happy, delighted, giddy, vindicated, and proud.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is a shameful statistic, isn't it?
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  P1 SpareNoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
  
  -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didnt think you were that literate!
  Good quote.
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how can you say you didn't think someone was literate when you don't even know who they are? that's passing judgment
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i was talking about the goethe quote, i was attempting humour, it was actually meant as a compliment... tongue in cheek, my apologies, if it was taken differently
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh my bad i read it wrong lol ... sorry for jumpin on ya about it ...
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  Glenn S.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  CNN, now that's a credible source.
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Theres web sites all over the web that provide the exact same FACTS!
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What FACTS are you referring to? The estimates from the CBO? Estimates are now facts? I didn't see a lot of facts in that post.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly true - you didn't see because your eyes were probably closed - just like your mind is. Noone knows exactly how much HCR will reduce the deficit - but the best guess is 1.3 Trillion in the second decade.
  
  You think we should not address the deficit until there are guarantees? There are none in life. But the best 'estimate' is that this bill - long term - is going to reduce the deficit a LOT.
  
  I am glad you provided one thing that will disappoing the closet gay republicans looking forward to a gay-rape in jail. There is no prison time if you don't get medical insurance - there is a $750 fine that gets you entry-level access to health care, which is kinda like a free tank of gas for stealing a car.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a great example of the left, anger is seething from you when you win a victory, you can't help but claim all Republicans are closeted homosexuals. The sad part of that is it shows your hostility towards the gay community, you use their struggles to be accepted as a weapon. Thank you for exposing your true colors!
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What I said was (spelling corrected & cleaned up) -
  
  "I am glad you provided the chance to clear up one thing that will disappoint the closet gay republicans looking forward to a gay-rape in jail. There is no prison time if you don't get medical insurance - there is a $750 fine that gets you entry-level access to health care, which is kinda like a free tank of gas for stealing a car."
  
  If you read the previous posts, I am not the one who brought up the subject of prison rape . Nothing I said suggested that ALL conservatives running on a homphobic platform are closet gays. Obvioulsly some are. Anyone who knows me knows I am not hostile to gays.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you have found a way to live with all that hostility, it could cause you medical problems. But not to worry the government Doctors will fix you right up, just like at the SS office and the IRS.
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The FACT that the CBO made the estimate. The FACT that sick children can,t be denied due to preexisting conditions. The FACT the insurance companies will have to provide a minimum level of coverage for all customers. The FACT that they can't deny people because of medical histories. The FACT that they can't implement caps for lifetime coverage. The FACT that the government will subsidize families who can,t afford it up to $88,000.00 a year. The FACT that the bill expands Medacaid for up to 15,000,000 millon people just above the poverty line. The FACT that the bill eliminates Medicare co-payments for preventive and screening procedures.
  ENOUGH? The bill is 2700 pages long. I can do this all night.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not convinced please continue.
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You win. Stay in your little box and continue to let the party do your thinking.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fox News watchers seem to not like this bill, ya think?
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  FOX news is the Republican propaganda machine.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What party is that? BTW, I voted for the President, but I didn't do it because he promised health care, I did because he said business as usual was going to change, he lied.
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Surely you didn't use all your puppets to vote? that would be bigger issue than the hanging chads!
  
  Even from out here it is clear that Obama is not business as usual ! I have yet to really see any different results but the business definately has change.
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you honestly say, with the size and scope of this bill, that it's bussiness as usual? This is a good bill! It involves alot of change at one time, and I'm not so nieve to believe that there won't be any snags. You mentioned entitlements earlier. The biggest resistance is from corporate interests and state governments. And that is only because they are losing THIER entitlements. It's to big to say we have it all worked out, but overall this is a good bill for citizens. Sorry if I made a false assumption.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The size and scope of this bill is exactly business as usual!
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HEY! WE AGREE ON SOMETHING! I agree to disagree with you.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fair enough.
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  saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thanks for the precise information... our system is different and we have optional private cover with tax funded public system. All drs are trained in the public, so the care is from the same universities anywhere.... and most drs work a mixture of public and private...
  
  private, better equipment, better rooms, get in faster..
  public, basic, good for most things except elective surgery.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is about how I see it here too, although a recent admission to the public system was brilliant.
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  Manly Manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There you go again. Introducing facts into the discussion.
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  Glenn S.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  Danny R Handposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo! Someone with common sense.
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lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago
And this is all you are concerned about, being someones biatch? Honestly, that is the last thing any of us should be worried about right now.
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StormRyderposted 14 years ago
I'm ok with it...but I work for the Federal Government and have good health care coverage and they pay me really well too so if I had to I could get my own coverage.
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Padrinoposted 14 years ago
I'm kind of glad, it will bring about the expulsion of democrats in November. Based on their complete disregard for what the majority wants I expect them to stay out of power for a long while.
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saltposted 14 years ago
And the level of debate seems to have shifted from health care to deterrants from committing crime.

I understood that your healthcare bill would assist and aid those worst off - that they would be able to access health care at any socio-economic level.
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's not exactly true. That's what we are meant to believe and what some people desperately want to believe. There were and are better ways to fix the problem, but the leadership in Washington went for a smash and grab, rather than deal with the issue in a rational manner.
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  Glenn S.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Replay of the the Patriot Act.
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
For those who remeber the GOP Congresscritter who predicted Health Care Reform would be Obama's Waterloo, here's ABBA's version of the song if you feel like dancing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85yMOPKR … r_embedded
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StormRyderposted 14 years ago
I won't mind paying higher taxes to help get coverage for others..I already give to charities and donated nearly $8500.00 last year and would be happy to give more in taxes if it means someone less fortunate than I will have health care coverage...But I guess that makes me a bad person for wanting all people to have health care.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are already paying for folks who don't have health care. Higher bills are a reflection of that. Hospitals that treat uninsured don't get paid, so therefore they need to charge higher rates to those who can pay.
  My dentist recently apologized to me about my bill. But, with so many non-payments, he is struggling to keep his practice open.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stormy that make you a normal compassionate human being. This is well overdue.
  America needs to look after it's poor. It is the flagship of a great nation to do so. I am proud of our public health in Australia.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And the bloomin' onion.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes ok ....and the bloomin onion!
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is exactly how I feel.
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blueiiidgirl36posted 14 years ago
To answer the original question. I have only read a small portion of this bill that has been passed.

My job security is good for at least the next two decades thanks to this bill and the potential repercussive legislation.

I think its great that people who need and would use coverage they do not have will now have it or be covered. I do NOT approve of having to pay for medical care for all people. There are far too many who will allow themselves to fall ill, or prey to repeat injuries due to refusal to take responsibility for their own health.

I don't like that Congress and the President are exempt from the requirement to participate.

I really don't like that if any American chooses to remain employed they now, MUST pay for some form of healthcare insurance coverage based the assumption that they will eventually use some form of modern medical care. Not everyone will.

I sincerely hope the modifications that are made to this bill specify that healthcare coverage will not be required to be in the form of modern medical insurance. There are enough people who use modern medicine for emergencies and surgeries ONLY. They CHOOSE to use some Traditional option over partaking of an overpriced and often ineffective system for maintenance care.

There are a lot of those options and the modern medical climate calls it alternative medicine. (Keep in mind, controlled nutrition was once an alternative to medicine in the modern medical climate.) I've seen NOTHING that covers this, even with this sweeping reform.

Creating a law to force people to pay for something they do not use is wrong. Taking away the freedom to choose is an enormous government step backward.
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starme77posted 14 years ago
I feel like we're screwed
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  Glenn S.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yuppers
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StormRyderposted 14 years ago
Four good reasons we should just kill everyone over 70 for the good of us all..#1 Cut down on over population #2 No massive health care costs to worry about. #3 You won't have to go visit them in the nursing homes. #4 (And most importantly) They won't be out on the streets driving!

Of course I am kidding about all of the above....except the driving part!!
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  lynnechandlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  P1 SpareNoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a decently-run society with plenty of funds to spare, and not trillions of dollars in undocumentable adjustments, would not have to worry about the elderly. there's nothing wrong with having a high population, as long as they can be maintained with the way the society functions. health-care wouldn't be an issue either.
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starme77posted 14 years ago
ok so they shouldnt drive , but I dont think the other part was funny, sorry
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pinkyleeposted 14 years ago
some can still drive quite well , and no the other wasnt very funny but i know storm is just trying to lighten the mood
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  Faybe Bayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  does it always come down to driving? okay yes, I guess it does.
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol faybe i love you!! how ya doin
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P1 SpareNoneposted 14 years ago
I got it! I know why they're forcing us to have health insurance! It's all so clear now, I can't believe I didn't see it before! Chuck Norris turned 70 this year, and he needs to celebrate, so we're all in danger! Multiple round-house kicks to the face can leave one lengthy bill at the end of a visit, so we all need insurance!
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  pinkyleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are such a smart ass
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  Glenn S.posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And creative.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I also worry about my adult children losing their employer-provided health insurance. According to factcheck, between 8 and 9 million people will lose that with this bill. Also according to factcheck, premiums on individual policies will increase because of the new law. Maybe the kids would qualify for a supplement to help pay the premiums?

I like the fact that no one can be denied for existing conditions or be dropped because of an illness.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I am proud of my American friends for supporting change. It seems Americans are afraid of it sometimes.
The health system will be refined by the reality of need just as it has elsewhere.

America can now count itself in the countries that are fair and sharing with the less well off in there midst, the sign of a strong democracy.

No president has been able to do what Obama has done, and America should be proud of a President big enough to take it on.
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Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago
A celebratory song for the anointed one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvxiG56M-eU
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Here's something we can do....let's see how it works or doesn't before we pass judgement.

How can we do anything else?

And seriously, to all the republicans in government--yes, all of you who are a PART of the problem you say you are....

Why don't you quit?
How can you in good conscience work for an entity for which you have such contempt and disrespect?
Please--let people serve there who actually believe in gvt., who actually believe in what they're doing.

Because I can tell you right now, if I went to my job every day telling my boss how bad the job was, how rotten his company was, how uneccessary he was--I'd be out on my keester!

You don't like gvt., you really shouldn't be profitting from it.
Go join a wall street firm or an insurance company or a bank. At least you'd be working FOR your employer instead of against it!

You work for me bud...don't you forget that. And your behavior has been reprehensible!
Like it or leave it. And stop sucking from it if it's sooooooo bad.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  actually, they all work for "we the people"...including the President.
  
  well, the voters will answer back during the midterm elections.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "You work for me bud...don't you forget that."
  
  And people who work for you should listen to what you tell them you do or do not want, right?
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thisisoliposted 14 years ago
I'm all for the health care package, and healthcare is one of my biggest worries of moving from England to the US.

This healthcare reform is (from what I have read) a shadow of the original proposal (which was a healthcare system for America). Now it seems to be moer about fixing up the insurance system so people don't get quite as badly shafted by teh insurance companies.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  now we get shafted by the government
  
  change you can believe in
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Will Apseposted 14 years ago
It's sad the country didn't get a genuinely good quality health system. Even so, this should help a lot of people. So congratulations. Sort of.
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Jane@CMposted 14 years ago
Now that its passed, how long will it take for those uninsured to become insured? 10 days, 3 months, a year? I haven't seen any clear answers to when the under-insured become insured.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It will take three years to be enacted. the taxes will go up immediatly.
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qwarkposted 14 years ago
Politics is the art of compromise.
Compromises were made.
It's working as the "forefathers" wanted.
Now that we have a "health" bill, work to make it a better one.
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Dr. Larkinposted 14 years ago
*Sighs* It will make little difference. It's not a government takeover, and it's definitely not useful. About the one useful thing it has done is the fact that it made people finally care again. Both sides.

I'm just watching the pendulum swing to the left, and to the right. Beware when it finally sticks to one side.
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sandra rinckposted 14 years ago
I don't know all the details but I think it should work out. If it is true that 32 million more people will be able to have insurance, then they wont have to go to the ER.

Which means that people can go in for health exams and preventive care which would save money in the long run because from what I hear and have heard is that most of the money being eaten comes from people making trips to the ER and because they weren't able to get preventative treatment to avoid those really costly ER visits.

Best protection is in preventative care first. But what do I know right?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you know a fare bit Sandra. The same is true in Australia. We are saving massive amounts by having a free system as people go to the doctor instead of waiting too long thus creating long surgery or other treatments that cost ten times more.
  
  Like cars, humans are cheaper to service if preventative maintenance if adhered to!
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Besides which, people who are sick, whether seriously, or simply under-the-weather, make for unproductive employees... unproductive parents,and frankly unproductive people... which costs the economy in silent millions.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Early detection saves a mass of money, and early detection is often the work of the latest medical scanner or machine. I would say buy!
The use of this high end medical equipment is still much cheaper than paying for a series of expensive ops that would not have been required if the high tech machine was used upon initial diagnosis.
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Friendlywordposted 14 years ago
I hope this forum last until the weekend. Gotta go to work!
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