Big same-sex marriage today!
This morning seems to be full of good news for the more tolerant among us.
Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriages in California, has been overturned by a federal appeals panel. Next stop (perhaps) SCOTUS.
For those who don't live in CA and didn't have the distinct "pleasure" of getting to vote for (or against) prop 8, it was worded counterintuitively. A "yes" vote meant "no" to same-sex marriage and a "no" vote meant "yes" to same-sex marriage. There was a HUGE influx of money from the Mormon Church to defeat the measure, too.
Equality strikes a blow for equality today. Let's celebrate!
From the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ … _comboNP_p
Robert Barnes, Tuesday, February 7, 9:58 AM
A federal appeals panel in San Francisco ruled Tuesday that California's ban on same-sex marriage violates the constitutional right to equal protection.
The panel overturned Proposition 8, which was approved by 52 percent of the state's voters in 2008 and amended the state's constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman.
The court's decision upheld a 2010 decision by former Judge R. Vaughn Walker that found marriage to be a fundamental right protected by the Constitution, and that the proposition fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license.
Opponents of same-sex marriage have the option of appealing Tuesday's decision to the full U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit or taking it directly to the Supreme Court, which has never ruled on the matter.
Are you sure of that, Dave? Or, maybe the judgment has already taken it's course right here and in the now.
Like I said, keep talking... You're making us look better
Think you could organize a rally? That would be really helpful!
Then I'd be worried if i were you, AnnCee. You've done nothing on these forums but make a mockery of Jesus' teachings, and that's pretty evil.
AnnCee is making essentially the same argument as the Phelps clan, though - that God will punish America for our acceptance of homosexuality.
She just hasn't resorted to picketing the funerals of dead soldiers to spread the word about it. That we know of, anyway.
- of course the true conservatives who would like to be able to tell all the rest of us what we can and cannot do will keep battling about this - its not funny. Yesterday, while waiting to pay a tax bill in the IRS office a guy next to me said he is going to Europe to live. I wished him luck and agreed that it is crazy that one should have to pay (as he was) $130 on a bill that was 19.80 to start with simply because it got lost - and he has tried to appeal but it has cost him way more in time and energy. THEN insult to injury we both had to wait about 45 min. to PAY - the IRS is understaffed. during tax time. ok, so what I'm saying is - there seems to be enuf money to have endless voting and court judgments about something as basic as people's right to marry who they want, but there's no money to give us basic services = like tax office staffing etc. Then when I finally got to pay it - they wanted me to get a different kind of money order, and I said NO! their instructions clearly just said "money order" not what kind. So I won a small battle there. But, come on USA - why does everything have to be so difficult? Why do we have to fight for the most basic services and rights? I'm not moving. I'm staying here and being vocal about my rights. Rights have nothing to do with someone else's religious beliefs! HELLO! It 2012 not 1012 now!
I do enjoy glitter...it's a done deal! Cheers, (or bottoms-up if one prefers)!!
Right back at ya!
Niiiice points MM! Never been a big fan of stupid or gross!
Two people of the same sex can't have a child together?
Since when?
Ever heard of adoption? Or artificial insemination?
Same methods used by may hetero couples who can't naturally conceive together.
Not to mention the huge number of non-married people who have children by natural and artificial means.
That is a very narrow AND incorrect criterion for marriagability.
Marriage is a financial arrangement first and foremost.
What's kids got to do with it?
You're funny.
If it weren't for that pesky Constitution OBlamey could be king. Then he'd really get stuff done.
He's a curse on this Godless generation.
What are you saying, K9?
I tried to turn the sound up loud but I still couldn't catch the words.
- I stand corrected!
- Sooner28posted 12 years ago
0 Die Proposition 8, Die totally up to the Supreme Court! Hope it stops from there and it will not be heard anymore by the SC!!!!
@repairguy47, if you are gay, then come on out. Not a bad thing here, love. No offence intended, you talked about real life as if you were a gay man who'd experienced it, just asking the question. This is a great place to come on out, though. Well done.
How could I possibly argue with such a detailed, thoughtful response.
"Same sex marriage is just weird."
So are coin-collecting, battle reenactment, quarter-sized motorcycles, steampunk, and furries, but we don't try to ban those.
Not as weird as someone who talks about REAL life when discussing gay issues, only to later announce that they are NOT gay and have based their REAL life gay reality based on the life of one gay woman they have met, whom poporteredly , wasn't gay but had made a "lifestyle" choice. Yes, I was left feeling confused, too.
- kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago0
The voters said slavery was a good idea for a long time. And voters are never wrong, are they?
When the majority vote to remove the rights of a minority -- THAT is the Achilles' heel of a democracy which turns it from just to unjust.
Luckily, the wise creators of our Constitution recognized that problem and said we CAN"T vote to remove the rights of a minority. Which is what the court ruling said: it's unconstitutional to do that, and Prop 8 did that, so it was struck down.
You know the real irony?
The biggest outcry I saw yesterday was from Newt Gingrich complaining about meddling judges, when the judges were upholding the constitution. I think Newt's attitude is, "The gays didn't protect MY marriages, so they can't have any! Ha!"
It's also ironic that the biggest lobby that poured BILLIONS of dollars into California to get prop 8 passed was the Church of LDS. Mormons, of course, are experts on the fact that marriage is, and has always been defined, as "one man and one woman."
I don't know. I just know that as long as Prop 8 was up, I couldn't marry the person I love. Now I can. Now I'll have legal grounds to provide for my spouse and children. How on earth is that threatening anyone else's marriage!?
Just last week I was talking with my conservative father about tax considerations, and he figured out that I'm paying a much, much higher tax rate even though my income is much, much less partly because I have to file as an individual. I pointed out to him that gay couples have to file as individuals no matter if they've been together 50 years, and that each can only claim a dependent if the other person hasn't, and he finally got it. We're talking about the legal institution of marriage... which IS a legal institution.
Your religion may define the COVENANT of marriage for you in certain ways particular to that religion (Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi or whatever -- each have their own definitions), but the government can't define the religious side of things, because that's religion's job -- and vice versa. Religions don't get to define legal institutions to enforce beliefs unique to one religion... because they'd be doing it against the beliefs of other American citizens!I can't speak on behalf of all non-Christians, but Catholicism is just one of many Christian sects. On matters of marriage, they are clearly much more fundamentalist than the more liberalized Protestant branches. That's right, Brenda: you're a liberal.
That's why I tend to when Christians condemn gay marriage, but then get divorce and remarried themselves.
Lol, Ralph. I love men - older, younger, same age, etc. Not too young, though. I think 35 would be the limit at the low end. The high end would be around 80. BTW, I'm married to an older man - Johnny is 65. He's great! He puts up with all my flirting - he knows he has my heart.
And Ralph, you're a sexy guy! Attractive, intelligent, and considerate, with a sense of humor. Four biggies! BUT...even more important, do you love big dogs, southern cooking, horses, and saltwater fishing??
I sin. I overeat, I lust, I smoke, and I sometimes tell what I consider "little white lies."
Habee, you sound like mind kind of woman.
"You still haven't answered my question; Can a government define the moral side of things?"
Yes, I did: no, it can't.
A government doesn't get to decide what is moral and immoral. It gets to make laws. An immoral act does not become moral simply because it has been made legal, and a moral act does not become immoral simply because it has been made illegal.
Is that clear enough?
However, this raises only more questions; Informed about what?
Informed about the arrangement they are entering into. If one partner has withheld important information, for example, a marriage can be ruled invalid (there is legal precedent for this).
Competent at what?
Competent at operating a remote-controlled aircraft. Mentally competent, of course.
And are we only talking of legal adulthood? Because that age will change depending on the country.
We have to talk about legal adulthood. Sure, I've known some 15-year-olds who are more mature than some 30-year olds I've met online, but there needs to be some line drawn legally for across-the-board legal fairness. In a nation ruled by a benevolent dictator, we can determine adulthood on a case-by-case basis, but in a nation ruled by law, we must of necessity draw an arbitrary line, knowing that even though in some cases it will be unfair, in most cases it will be fair.
And what do you mean by 'rights'? Is this a right that was given by someone, or just inherent in the human condition; that because we are human we have the 'right' to do what we want?
It's just inherent in the human condition; because we are human beings, we have the right to do as we want, as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of other humans.
And lastly, you use the term “rights” five times in your closing paragraph. However, what do you mean by 'right'?
Do you genuinely have no idea what I mean by 'right,' or are you just trying to nitpick? What do you mean by "mean?" What do you mean by "you?" What do you mean by "paragraph?" Define all of the terms you use to my satisfaction, and maybe I can answer you.
To what do you go to for authority to say mankind has 'rights'?
Ah, here's where the Religion+State apologists will insist that all authority comes from God, and without God, there are no rights. I assert my rights on my own authority. Because I think justice is important, I assume that any right that I assert for myself is also extended to every other human being.
There are plenty of things that don't hurt other people, but that I have no wish to do. But that doesn't mean that nobody has the right to do those things.
That kind of viewpoint is entirely too sane Will Apse.
What do you think would happen if more people thought like you?
Tolerance.
Understanding.
Peace.
Too horrible for any truly righteous person to even contemplate.
agreed Melissa
I missed this yesterday, Christians need to know that the heterosexual way of marriage and having children thanks to them has now lead to the over population of the planet, so maybe gay marriage might just be a good thing, especially in keeping the numbers down
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