Mike Huckabee says removing God from schools is to blame for shooting

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eastbaycoposted 12 years ago
I am, I can't speak for you.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  edit: wrong thread
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  The Suburban Poetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You jumped on this thread, insulted the way it read to you and then failed to understand the context of the argument. You now want to discuss the entire world and all religions and that is a red herring or whatever you want to call it.
  
  Read the title of the thread. Then think about how the father of the family in Albuquerque was a pastor and then reread the title. The thread has been full of discussion about Christianity in America and teaching it in schools as fact. Things of that nature. Do you think Huckabee is talking about Allah? Or Jehova? Or Buddha? He's not. So you can either start a new thread or use arguments that are on point. It's your choice.
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  eastbaycoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that completely, but you are missing the point. I am talking about a broader picture to make a point. I know Huckabee is not talking about Allah.
  If you had read my first Comment, it was about the way people attack other people's beliefs, which had begun in discussion to this article. Can you really not see the correlation? If so, I can talk a little simpler for you.
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  The Suburban Poetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are pretty funny. Yeah... talk simpler... thank you.
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whoisitposted 12 years ago
Yeah Sparky!

Sparky?
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The Suburban Poetposted 12 years ago
You may or may not believe this but the following is a quote I pulled from Facebook concerning the unfortunate shootings that took place today on a Texas college campus:

" Yes, WE CAN KEEP PRAYING, but its the people that DONT PRAY that have no value or respect for mankind that kill..The answer...GET GOD IN EVERYONES LIVES and a concealed license to teachers..."

You can draw your own conclusions on the mind-set....
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brakel2posted 12 years ago
A high school counselor once told me that kids in sports and kids with some kind of faith generally stay out of trouble. He sure didn't mean professional sports. I agree that these activities helped my kids. There are also other reasons such as violence in Tv, movies, poverty, poor home life, peer pressure, substance abuse, bullying, and all of society's ills.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And sometimes we don't know the reason. I agree that kids need outlets, which schools are in the process of eliminating for budgetary reasons. Arts programs are equally important but they are always the first to go.
  
  And faith helps give structure to people's lives. Some kind of philosophical structure is important.
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Laura Prado-Ochoaposted 12 years ago
Look up the sandy hook conspiracy. Or have that person look it up. He might just change his mind about it.
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TerryK81posted 12 years ago
It is amazing how many choose to blame God for any and everything morally wrong and perverted in the world, even in your local setting. First off, the 9/11 ordeal was clearly conducted by those inside our own government; watch those footage videos again a little more sharply this time. Secondly, everything about Sandy Hook was completely wrong, with certain individuals involved making contradictory statements including number and type of firearms found/used in shooting. Parents seeming a bit too cheery even though their kid "supposedly" died. Truth is, the "powers that be" in this country are not out for our best interest. Trust God. He has never failed...yet to some He has. You can't point the finger at Him because God Himself does not want anyone to die nor does He cause situations for people to die. Really study His Word for YOURSELF and learn of Him. I assure EVERYONE who reads this that God is not out to hurt anyone.
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taburkettposted 12 years ago
Evil is created by the lack of goodness created through God's spirit.
When a human lives through God's commandments, God lives through the human.
When people remove God from school, they degrade the moral principles of the society.
When people remove God's moral principles from society, they create evil immoral gunman that kill children in school.
When people blame God for the problem, their focus is blurred by irrational human emotion because they fail to possess wisdom provided through knowledge of God's commandments.
When people realize that the problem is removing God from school, the society will begin to heal.
Until people face this fact, the society will continue to create evil immoral gunman.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have completely removed God from my children's schooling. So far they haven't shot anyone.
  Of course that could be because I've also removed guns from their schooling.
  
  Hmm...
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  TerryK81posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God IS real and He DOES answer prayer and change lives. To those who reject this truth I say this: you do not know my personal life, and have you ever had FAITH and BELIEF in what you pray for? My marriage was in shambles because of ME, NOT GOD; I was addicted to alcohol and was a blind, "blame the world and everyone in it but me" minded individual; I used to have a very bad temper; Was a thief and a liar; Was into the occult; HERE IS THE REAL, LIVING PROOF THAT GOD ANSWERS PRAYER. I prayed and asked God to purify my heart and to give me the sincere desire and willingness to stop the above behaviors and to open my eyes and guess what? HE ANSWERED because I KNOW I could not have overcome that on my own because my mind and will were twisted. GOD opened my eyes and gave me understanding. GOD showed me, and is still showing me, the heart of the matter in my own life. THEREFORE, how can ANYBODY acuse God of doing them wrong? Have they no maturity or any sense of e responsibility for their actions and the consequences? Secondly, THERE IS NO WAY AT ALL WHATSOEVER that God is responsible IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, FASHION, OR FORM for sandy hook, 9/11, or whatever else. Watch the 9/11 videos: DO YOU NOT SEE THE TOWERS IMPLODING BEFORE THE PLANES HIT THEM???? and then sandy hook: WHERE WERE THE AMBULANCES? HOW COME THE CHILDREN AND ADULTS WHO SUPPOSEDLY DIED PUT STATUS REPORTS ON FACEBOOK PRIOR TO THAT DAY AT SANDY HOOK?? How come parents seemed happy and smiley-faced AFTER the shootings when being interviewed?? How come when the police- 3 ARMED POLICE - went chasing someone unknown to us viewers here in this part of America, into the woods behind the school, supposedly arrested him, and video showed these same police back in the woods, with some trees in the way, but enough to see that they were clearly standing there??? COME ON. The universe is stable, so therefore how can anybody blame God?
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just a gentle correction, Terry..... Every thing in the Universe changes, over time. Everything, period. Therefore the Universe cannot be 100% stable. Agreed?
  
  This is a fundamental truth about our finite world, i.e., the world you and I are conscious of. We cannot be aware, cannot have consciousness, without change. The only think in this world which is unchangeable is Change itself.
  
  Up - down. Big - small. Dark light. Hard - soft. Etc. - etc. Interminably, everything changes from one state to another state in the Finite condition. Even understanding can change..... Christian to Muslim, Muslim to Atheist, Buddhist to Christian. Without colour there would be no beautiful world to observe and experience. Existence would not "Be."
  
  Yet, in the Infinite world there is no limit, therefore no contrast, no change, no comparison. No hurt, no disappointment, no sin, no caring. No challenge, no goal, no achievement , no joy even..... because we will experience nothing - NO THING in that infinite condition.
  
  What does this mean for me? I stop worrying about any thought of life here-after, and concentrate on my life and those lives around me.
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TerryK81posted 12 years ago
Not here to attempt convincing anyone for or against any idea, fact, or truth but in all cases of crimes and offenses there is either ample or insufficient responsibility. Some choose from the get go to blame God for all of their problems within their circle of life and in nonpersonal circles of life. I will just put out there for all to know that I personally believe in God and His Son Jesus Christ and that Jesus is coming again soon one day; I believe in the forgiveness of sins and that no matter how bad a person has been that they too can recieve forgiveness and grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
It is seen and done in many cases like the sandy hook situation for example, but not targeting or completely referencing this particular incident. Somebody want to blame somebody else for everything, whether it be the offices of education, religion, security, military, government, etc.; However, there are those who are straight from the heart set on doing evil in whatever way, and there are also those whose hearts are sincerely devoted to and for the unselfish benefit of others and the environment. For example, an individual who has a rather questionable upbringing and whose morales were either never established to be right, will more than likely be one of the ones who go out into public and commit crimes and atrocities of varying degrees and so forth. But yet, let's say that this person is still in middleschool ( some say junior high ) and this person goes to school and curses out, beats up, smokes a joint in the bathroom and vandalizes vehicles in the parking lot where he/she attends school. Then we have the teachers and faculty who are aware of this behavior and are quite sick of it and call this individuals parents. Parents come in, and then let's also say that the teachers and parents go back and forth on whose fault this is: Teachers blame the parents for not raising their child properly and that they need parental guidance and a new school for their child to attend, and then the parents are blaming the teachers for not utilizing proper control over their child and that they themselves haven't done any better than themselves (the parents).
OK: Issue. Yes, the parents need to raise their child with morally right standards and values and maybe they did because some kids will still rebel against all authority, and yet maybe the parents failed in their responsibilities ( not OBLIGATIONS ) as parents because either they just couldn't care less or maybe they, too had parents as bad or worse than themselves. Yes, education providers are not there to babysit or tolerate your child's misbehavior and disrespect, but are there to educate your child in whatever subjects your child attends their classroom for. In mine and a few others experience and opinion, some teachers (not only teachers) just plain do not care at all.
My point? My point is this, in that whomever is responsible for whomever and whatever, we cannot blame God. Do we all not have the power of, and the freedom to, choice? There is also personal responsibility for ones self, in that the individual makes choices that are good or bad in whatever way. Whatever the outcome of those choices due to the common law of "cause and effect" this individual will either be pleased with the effects that their choices have caused, or either highly unhappy to whatever degree to the effects that their choice(s) have caused. Understandably, when bad things happen, and some do happen that are beyond our control, there are those who ask, "where is God?".
But God is not out to hurt or kill anyone. He wants everyone to be saved (2 Peter 3:9). Each of us has a choice as to what we choose to believe, and I speak for myself on this, but we need to have INTELLECTUAL, REASONABLE reasons. Sure, nobody can prove God exists physically; But look around as hard as it may seem to the beauty beyond the beast. The evil forces at work and the men who obey these evil forces may or may not be aware that they are ruining themselves and others. It's no secret that there are branches of office and authority who have dirt on them and who cause things to happen. Secret societies have a big hand in national disasters ranging as far back as the 13th century or more. I will admit that I am no conspiracy theorist, nor am I attempting to change any minds. But if I have undeniable truth and evidence (EVIDENCE, not THEORY) then yes I am going to show my cards. Many believe in evolution, but evolution raises more questions and doubts than answers and it has never once proved anything. The human body itself is proof of a Creator. Just consider the complexity of a single sperm, how it has all of the information about how you will look and behave and think in every which way. How the earth is the only inhabitable planet in our solar system. Anyways, another topic at another time. AND YES, I WILL PROVIDE EVIDENCE from proven studies and examinations (no, I didn't do the studies).
In closing, I will just say this: How is it that people put their trust in mankind for anything? How and WHY is it that people put utmost faith in educational and religious "leaders" and yet these very same people (not all of them) can never really PROVE anything or explain indepth, critical topics but yet they have "PHD", "MD" or whatever in front of their names??? Scientists (not all of them) make this claim and that claim and it turns around that they were wrong, some of them all the time and people still trust their theories? Things that the Holy Bible has been telling us for YEARS AND YEARS are being experienced and discovered by "scientists" as if the scientists discovered it and proclaimed they have made a breakthrough? For example, science once told us the world was flat, then found out they were wrong. In Job 38 of the bible, this is written. People dedicating their lives to certain religious systems that consistently lie to them, or hurt children, and that completely contradict never-failing Scripture, and who even go as far to call THEMSELVES God! Amazing... but so utterly sad.
Don't blame God. What actual reason and proof is there to do that? If you were put on a task and yet you honestly had an honest, proven hinderance that came up suddenly that YOU had no control over, how would YOU feel? Again, not here to change any minds or beliefs. In truth, the very ones who blame God are the ones who would love Him the most; they have no one else to blame because there is no one else to blame. God gives everyone the power and freedom to choose, think, and respond to whatever, whenever and however. God did not orchestrate anything we acuse Him of. Many blame whoever and think and believe whatever simply only because "they" are doing it, so it must be right, huh? Yeah, sure, OK, fine. Your move. But as for me, I believe in God. I am not perfect but God is. I am the one who is the offender, not God.
Think of this: God is everywhere at all times. Yet if god did as people blame Him of doing, then think of the character He would have to have and the frame of mentality to do all He did. So, with this in mind, all the destruction in the world throughout its 6,000+ years, all the various manner and degree of death, crime, disease......if God is to blame, then why would He not just finish everyone off? Anyhow.
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waynetposted 12 years ago
And if God was really in the School that day he would have been too busy watching day time television to stop it like other Worldwide disasters and incidents.....He's a selfish person this God....always looking out for number 1!
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God does look out for number one and that number one he looks out for is you, you should be greatful!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the day time t.v. he watches is all the stupid people here on earth that say stupid things.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're right. Stupid people say stupid things. And God must sure love stupid people because He made an awful lot of them. Good thing He is so much more merciful than the people He made, hey?
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  waynetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm not grateful....God just likes people to talk about him, pray to him and do nothing for this world, because there is no God, only the figment of the blind religious imaginations....believing in something that isn't there is just madness!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True, but the way He does it is by looking after everybody else! It sure wouldn't have been God watching daytime tv!
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Could you all please stop capitalizing ever other word.

It's MAKING me WANT to CLAW my EYES out.

Really... we know where the emphasis is. We are-in general- a pretty literate crowd. Do you scream every other word in conversations?
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just posted on another thread and I was so pissed that I did that too...lol I make my apology now, in case you make your way to that thread.
  
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's okay Mo. It was always one of my pet-peeves. It drives me absolutely bat-crap now. I'm one of the MTurk raters and I see it all the time on hubs. They are invariably political or religious hubs. It makes me want to say... "Why in the hell would I want to see things your way? You randomly scream about every third word. If people did this on the street they'd be committed"
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I totally get it. It usually annoys the hell outta me too. Since, however, you would agree with part of what I had to say, I know you would still love me when you finished reading.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd love you no matter what
  
  I'd leave my hubby for you... if you had coffee.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't toy with me, woman. We've had this conversation.
  
  I always have coffee.
  
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO... You know flirting with each other in a religious thread will make the Fundie's heads explode.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think I do it?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it was because I had a cute ass. You mean you had ulterior motives?
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought the cute ass part was a given...no, my motive is really just to turn you on, but the Fundie Fire Up is a nice side effect.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Talking about coffee is a really good way to turn me on...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You think I don't know that?!? You only think I'm sexy because I'm a curse-shouting Italian woman who's into threesomes with every bi-sexual woman I meet. But really, it's only you.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ROFLMAO.
  
  Keep it up and everyone is going to assume we are each other's sock puppets!
  
  I love my MoMo
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Backatcha, baby.
  
  If they pay close enough attention, I'm sure they've been thinking that for a while now. LMAO!
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eww!
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, Crap, missed it by that much. I'm married to a curse-shouting Italian woman who's not into threesomes with any bi-sexual women. So close and yet so far.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, Rad. No one can have it all, I guess.
  
  Except for me and Melissa, of course!
  
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, it's working and it's not even directed towards me. LOL Men...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HA! At least your response was funnier than "Eew."
  
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Cheeky Girlposted 12 years ago
Could anyone explain what Huckabee meant by that, by saying God was taken out of schools? Was God handcuffed and had a sack thrown over his head and bundled into the back of a hummer by the feds? Is that what this attention seeking TV personality is saying? Is he really?

Or does he want to go back and explain himself. Is this Pro-God or Anti-Govt hype? Or both? I am not a terribly big fan of this man, as he says whatever can annoy people the most and get maximum coverage from it... he is a man with an itch- looking for someone to come and scratch it.

So just ignore him.

Securing schools and our kids from crazy gun people is perhaps left to others or to us, but not Huckabee. He is a politician, turned TV entertainer. His job is to lead the people and then like all politicians, turn his back on them.
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  The Suburban Poetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He means that he wants prayer to the Christian God to be allowed in schools. It was ruled unconstitutional a long time ago stemming from a lawsuit filed by Madalyn Murray O'Hair:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Mu … t_activism
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getitriteposted 12 years ago
For the eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth that he may strongly support those whose heart is completely his (2 Chronicles 16:9)
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Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years ago
I too hate the tooth fairy, mainly because it doesn't exist in my country ... all those wasted teeth ..
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Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years ago
I can tell you what we will really be doing for eternity ... as a human kind we will continue to grow and expand, until we reach a point we can no longer stand ourselves ...

There will be three main groups of people (religious fanatics will be way gone) ...

Some of us will focus on technology, merely trying to create a perfect world, while in fact destroying what is already perfect ...
Others will try to stop the development of technology and will focus on the "green way of life" .. basically they will be pot heads, loving the earth and whatnot ... trying to preserve whats already perfect, while destroying themselves ...
And there will be a something in between .. people with common sense who try to expand technology in a way it actually helps the environment ... but as the third group is not so judgmental and doesn't have as much power as the first group ...

Yet this won't be the end ....... while everyone overlooks the small things people will continue to evolve ... and the next in evolution? Well ... two main new "humans" .. the indigo children and the psychics ... we can already see the indigo children and the Chinese psychics ... so yeah .. look it up .. it's all out there ...

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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indigo children are children who's parents don't want to admit there kid has ADHD. The traits are exactly the same.
  
  Psychics prey upon the gullible. They are laughing in your face while they take your money.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The ability to see the future is something that few people have.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The ability to see the future is something that no people have, but still something some people claim to have.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was actually trying to use gentle sarcasm.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know, but I'm afraid he wouldn't get it. Blunt I say, blunt. Anyone who believes indigo kids and psychics are genetically different just may think he can see the future and I don't want to encourage that.
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  Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, stop it you, rad man ... You are making me laugh so loud, my neighbor's cat got scared ... ...
  
  But yeah, I don't believe indigo and psychic and all that are genetically different ... I am just saying people haven't tapped into what's possible and whatnot ... And we don't know what will evolution bring us ... There's a kid with 3 dna strands now, don't know what will happen with him though ...
  
  I'm just saying that as we don't need survival skills, but intellect, our minds will change (i'm talking like a thousand year time or sth) ... our face will grow smaller as will our bodies and like our brains will get bigger and stuff ...
  
  Much like that guy who has the ability to control his body temperature .. or the calculator guy ...or the blind Picasso and the people who see soundwaves and whatnot ...
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good, that you changed your tune a bit. Your other post said that indigo children and psychics were New Humans. But you haven't stopped predicting the future. Humans will most likely not change in a thousand or two thousand years because we haven't changed in the last 200 000 years besides skin colour and a few adaptation for cold weather, Because the world is so connected now it's impossible for evolution to happen. No group is in isolation for hundreds of thousands of years anymore. The average person may get taller and better looking but genetic diversity is to large to support a genetic mutation from becoming the norm. What may happen however is a group of people will or may travel to another planet or solar system and adapt to a new environment and become genetically different. What's needed is a new environment to adapt to.
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  Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see what you mean there ... You didn't get my point, but whatever ... these days I am having trouble expressing myself ... lack of imagination, creativity and whatnot
  
  So yeah ... Basically what I was trying to say is ...
  
  YES, there are a lot of scamming thieves who tend to call themselves psychic; however, there are these few, who actually have something extraordinaire no one can explain ...
  
  There was one woman in Bulgaria ( the country I live in ) who became world renowned for her psychic abilities. Even presidents of other countries were asking her for advice. She's called Baba Vanga ...
  
  A lot of Bulgarians had first hand experience and they believe in her powers ...
  
  There were people lined up waiting, like hundreds of people waiting (she would do this without profit ) to be predict upon ... But what's interesting is that she was blind and like there are hundreds of people and she used to say ... Who here is (e.g.) John Moskovski ... and someone in the crowd would go "I am" and she would say "Don't take that loan, it will ruin your life ... rather expand your business by doing this and that" ....
  
  And I mean whenever a person came near hear, she told everything about them, without asking ( I mean like the scammers who go " I see a brother " they look at you and your face expression goes " I don't have a brother " and she goes " oh, I mean a sister" ... not like that ... u see .. she's blind .. you don't tell her anything .. and she starts to talk about you, calling you by name and stuff, and talking like she knows you ... ) and we are talking about literary thousand and thousand of pepole ... there are videos of her and like scientist were doing research of her and stuff. .. It's truly amazing ...
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I looked her up and found no evidence that she was clairvoyant. A lot of claims, but the people closest to her were not in agreement with those that claimed her predictions were valid. You can't claim you made predictions after events happen. People can guess the future, but no one can see it and it's impossible to talk to the dead because they are dead. Personality, memory and consciousness are products of the brain. When the brain dies these things are lost.
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  Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here, my friend, you are wrong ... I was really confident that after your brain stops functioning you seize to exist ... But that's not the case ... You know that there are 6 wrapped up dimensions we know nothing about (check string theory) ... there are invisible particles (check neutrinos) and there are a lot of stuff that were thought superficial, but are now a reality ... (theory of relativity - there is a space time continuum, magnetic tunnels (warm holes) have also been proven ... a lot of stuff ... )
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes a lot of stuff has been proven or proven to be possible, but not human life without a brain. The brain stores our memories, emotions and intellect. There is no way of transferring all that information to anything that can use it.
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  Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is a higher consciousnesses ... a world beyond our comprehension ...
  
  If you have experienced lucid dreaming and astral projection you would know ...
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have experienced lucid dreams. It's fun to be in control of your dreams, but it's just that. slight consciousness while dreaming.
  
  I've also felt like I've had an OBE, but there has been no documented proof they we are in fact out of our bodies. Every OBE experiment has failed and that's because all of our thoughts and memories are stored in our brains. We are stuck in our heads, much like a computer.
  
  You've made the claim that there is a higher consciousness, can you supply any evidence?
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's very true, no one can see the future !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really - with all the other nonsense you believe - why draw the line there? I do think it is great that you reject the biblical prophecies though. Good for you.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Truth here!!
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ladylucknotsoposted 12 years ago
It sure didn't help!
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  ladylucknotsoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ok so that was weird, new here, and I replied to another post, nothing to do with this one, so mine is random....
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Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years ago
And she said like ... "You don't trust me, but in hundreds of years there will be more like me on the earth, than people like you now" ...

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Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years ago
Not every experiment failed ... most of the research were cancelled before even starting ... It's just how the world is ...

Do you see cars running on water?

When more than a few people have registers a working engine that runs on water ...
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Where do you get this stuff? Tests have been done in ER's trying to see if people perceived an OBE or had an OBE by placing information in places that couldn't been seen from the table and asking people who have been brought back from near death if they say anything. Many have claimed that floated above there bodies, but none had the required information. None.
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Zelkiiroposted 12 years ago
And yet another thread that's beyond ridiculous to the point of stupidity. "Removing God from schools" is not the cause of all school shootings. Hell, it's hardly the cause of ANY school shootings. (Of course, this is ignoring the indescribably idiotic fallacy that religion is banned in schools. Because, you know, it's not. And you're an idiot if you claim it is.)

See: Japan. Japan is an incredibly non-Christian nation, with only 1-2% of the country claiming to be such. 34% of the country is Buddhist, 3% are Shintoist, and 49% are Atheists.

With such a lack of God in Japanese schools, it must be perpetual shootings and mayhem over there! Except, you know, for the fact that Japan ranks among the lowest in the world when it comes to shootings, violent crimes, or pretty much any crimes at all. Who rubs elbows with Japan? Finland, Denmark, The Netherlands...all very Atheistic countries.

So, Mr. Mike Huckabee (who is clearly reading this), if anything God is likely the leading cause of school shootings in America. But because that, too, is full of bunk, it's a fairly safe bet that religion has absolutely nothing to do with school shootings and you should be ashamed for such filthy propaganda.
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whoisitposted 12 years ago
eastbayco, trust me they will make sure you get banned.
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  eastbaycoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So be it. They can take their ball and go home.
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't get me wrong I'm all for you getting it off your chest.
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  eastbaycoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's the atheist way. Ban and keep the religious quiet
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think its more of a hubpage thing.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's why it's a Christian who is saying it to you. No one wants to read through pages of vitriol in hopes that they can have a conversation. Heated is one thing... but personally attacking someone on an issue that has no baring whatsoever is another.
  
  It's not your faith that I have a problem with... it's your personal attacks.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ha, just like the middle ages. Only reversed and for a few minutes, not a thousand years.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Considering that I'm still here, either that isn't actually the atheist way (which is pretty much a sweeping generalized attack), I'm not religious (which I am more spiritual minded than hold to some religious doctrines), or they just like me (in spite of my beliefs)
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SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago
...and so back to the thread's point...removing God from schools is to blame for shootings...is a possible truth if the individual students or faculties have cut any concept of God or seeking of what God means, from their lives. By outlawing prayer in schools, not only was it unconstitutional, it has been unhealthy, to try and separate a soul from its position in a natural universe
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  JRScarbroughposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I’d concede that lack of moral discipline contributes to the decadence of society in America. Morality is not reliant upon religion within schools. Common sense right and wrong and the whys to why certain things are wrong helps guide developing minds.
  
  The Bible contains a lot of moral guidance. But religion does not need to be inserted in order to teach those same principles. In fact, religion can create a divide amongst students. If a Baptist pushed their doctrine and beliefs at Jewish children, a wrong has been done.
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why has a wrong been done, can't the Jewish just ignore the Baptist?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a very pertinent question. "Why can't the Jewish just ignore the Baptist?" Why can't the muslims just ignore the Jews? Why can we all just ignore each other?
  
  Because your religion teaches you that your right and everyone else is wrong and these wrong people are going to tempt with messages from the Devil.
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My religion? What religion would that be?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Any religion. Pick one. How am I supposed to know which religion you belong to?
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Because you said
  "Because your religion teaches you that your right and everyone else is wrong and these wrong people are going to tempt with messages from the Devil."
  
  So, what is my religion?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pro guns, anti helping the poor. Let me guess................
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Close, but not quite.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How come you don't know what religion you belong to?
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do know what religion I belong to, you claimed you knew also.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying I was wrong? If your are just tell me I'm wrong, name your religion and I'll apologies if I was wrong.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just give it up. He's a Conservative obstructionist who thinks he's being wise and mysterious.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny, because if I was wrong he would have told me how and why, but he didn't and he's having problems remembering what his own religion is, so he keeps asking me.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The purpose of debate is to keep an open mind and be objective. The best way to have an open mind is to forget all generalizations you have been taught.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not necessarily. A debate is an exchange of ideas meant to bring about a satisfactory, multi-faceted answer to a complex question or situation.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And how does a generalization help? You have to treat each person as an individual. If not, that person is having to defend an entire group of people that are not present and is speaking for them.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But that's typically how it goes. In any debate, each side doesn't represent themselves; they represent an idea, a cause, or a belief. A debate is an argument between ideas and ideals, not between people.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. Just trying to help.
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  JRScarbroughposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really. That’s not the point of why it is wrong. The teacher stands as an authority representing the government and the school. If the teacher enforces their own personal Jesus’ (their own viewpoint) in the classroom setting, it undermines the children who are not partakers of that philosophy. Including the atheist children. This is why there is a separation between church and state. We cannot give authority to any one view. It alienates all other views.
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a better answer than the other guys. But preference is given to other religions in schools, I'll give you this link. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/islam.asp
  
  Snopes has given it a not quite label which is just a way of saying yeah its true, but we don't want to say it.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Snopes has given it a not quite label which is just a way of saying yeah its true, but we don't want to say it."
  
  Wrong. The "Not quite" label actually means "there may be a kernel of truth in there somewhere, but almost all of it is B.S."
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Snopes is one of the most dishonest of the fact checkers. But, believe what you want.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And I suppose you think FOX News never tells a lie? Or better yet, has spoken even a single word of truth ever?
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  FOX news? Have I referenced FOX news?
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All of your posts and all of your mannerisms point to a callous person who idolizes the wealthy and supports big business while trampling on the poor and the outliers. So, it only makes sense that cold, unfeeling people like you would watch FOX News, a news station dedicated solely to idolizing the wealthy, supporting big business, and trampling the poor and the outliers.
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  whoisitposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, then it must be so. I'm deeply wounded.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I could be wrong, but I would guess he's a Christian.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See, Zelkiiro. This is how you do it. Getitrite is at least giving him a chance to answer before he comes to a conclusion.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you are saying that only cold people watch Fox News, therefore if one doesn't watch Fox News, that person is not cold? Then all people that don't watch Fox News is warm?
  
  Socratic method. lol
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not how you use logic. All hamburgers are made of beef, but not all beef is made into hamburgers.
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Redo.
  But that proves my point. Not all of what you see is what you get.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's the theory at any rate. In practice, we give authority to one view all the time.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This raises an interesting point and a question. I believe that I have mentioned to you (or in other threads) that I accept the possibility that I could be wrong in my beliefs, but I believe because my beliefs are what's working best for me in my life right now. I also have stated that I personally do not believe in the place where the devil "lives".So where would I fit into this statement?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well that depends I guess. Would you raise your children as muslims if you married a muslim?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was unaware the soul has a position in the natural universe. I've been in search for evidence of the soul and can't seem to find any. Where is this position and what is the NATURAL universe, I mean is there an unnatural universe?
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  SparklingJewelposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hey, rad man...truly, you have not found any evidence that you are a soul of the universe? what do you mean? no one has written anything that touches your heart with a belief that you have a soul? geez, that's rough
  to me, my soul is the eternal part of me that evolves as it lives within and through my physical body, my mind's workings, my feelings, my psychology, my belief in my self as a part of the bigger picture/the universe/God...this is part of the natural universe.
  
  now, as far as defining the unnatural universe, i guess to keep it short I would say that it is any soul that isn't seeking to understand its place in the natural universe/God
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Correct, no one has every written something that touches my heart. You see the heart pumps blood and the brain experiences emotions. When the brain shuts down emotions stop as does thought and memory. Do you have evidence that something else happens and the elusive soul has a role?
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  SparklingJewelposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ...well, that is sad. I am sorry for you that your heart has not experienced.
  
  to me, the brain is the computer of the higher dimension of the heart, not only the physical heart.
  
  the brain, as with the rest of the physical body and world, works at the behest of that higher dimension of the heart (where the aspect of the natural universe/God resides in the human being)
  
  without that "higher spiritual dimension" there is no natural human creation. there can be physical forms functioning with a soul in varying degrees, but rarely completely no soul.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So where does this soul go when one is unconscious, say during surgery? Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but when the brain is shut down so is thought, emotions and memory or even a sense of the passage of time. Without the physical brain we are nothing. Anything else is wishful thinking.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you really that much of a literalist? No place for poetry? I find that hard to believe.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, you're very astute.
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tiptopelectronicsposted 12 years ago
I think this is ridiculous decision to remove GOD from schools. How can anyone do that? School is the second place where child learn about his culture. I do not favor any religion and understand all are same.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I may be wrong, but I think it is more about a scorched earth policy. The only God that was being taught about in school is the Organized (and often dogmatic) Christian God. This is offensive to other cultures as well as other religions (and atheists) who are not Christians. But rather than adding other religious studies for those that want to study, the government just decided to simply wipe the slate clean and not allow any religion in school
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Cool. At last a reasonable religionist happy for other practices to be taught at school.
  
  Right?
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  waynetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is that Simone in the pic?...nice Satanic ritual everyone....Lets write a Hub about that topic!
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  Spikologyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess the way I look at the whole religion in public school thing is that most people have the opportunity to give their children an education and still have religion part of the curriculum. It is called private school. You can pick Catholic, Presbyterian, Jewish, etc...(Although I am not sure about Satanic, but in this world, who knows!). That is the way I look at it anyway.
  
  I know what you will say, that not everyone can afford that, but if I felt strongly about raising my children that way, then I would make a sacrifice and send them. Otherwise, I would not want someone else’s beliefs pushed on my child. I couldn’t very well put my child in a Catholic School and complain that they make them pray, right?
  
  Do I feel that if people were raised in a religious upbringing, they might have a more positive outlook towards humanity? Yes, but that is my choice and point of view, but it might not always be the same point of view for everyone. And public schools are made for everyone, not just the majority.
  
  Statistically am I correct in saying that someone raised with religion is less likely to do wrong? I don’t know about that because I have never researched it.
  I guess the question could be asked; “How many school shootings happen at Private Religious Schools?”
  I am playing devil’s advocate, of course because I have no clue.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When I was growing up, it was easier to find out about satanism in school than Christianity.
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  Sojourner1234posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I also agree with tiptopelectronics regarding the fact that religion was removed from schools... it is ridiculous that it has been done in this country. I do not agree that all religions are the same, nor do they claim to be the same. In reality there is a right answer and the others are wrong, like a sum in mathmatics... one does not have multiple right answers that correspond to a sum. Also, it is not 'reasonable' (like Mark Knowles indicated) to want all religions to be taught in school. It is reasonable to have the religion which the Founding Fathers had and taught to continue to be taught in schools, namely Christianity. The Bible used to be a school textbook in public schools. Any offense this may cause would be offset by a society following Biblical principles, resulting in a safer and more productive society... and a culture which is not riddled by fear of someone shooting other people randomly.
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jmbowen2012posted 12 years ago
If you want to pray, go ahead. If you want to believe in a god, go ahead. If you want to oppose praying in schools, go ahead. If you don't want to believe in a god, go ahead.
The one thing I ask from all of the religious and anti-religious bigots is that you accept the facts that not everyone believes in the same thing. You cannot make me fall in love with a woman I do not like, just as much as you cannot make me believe in a god I cannot see, hear, or feel. If you have faith in the existence of a god, I, too, cannot force you to absolve your beliefs. It is okay to attempt to influence another human to think differently, and that is the sole purpose of a changing society; it is not okay to step above another and stuff them up with your beliefs. Ultimately, it is the sole individual's decision to believe or not believe. If you respect that I do not believe in something you believe in, I can respect your beliefs. Likewise, I would hope you will have the sense to use your beliefs wisely, and for the right reasons. I cannot begin to explain how dastardly disgusting it is to see a religious human presenting themselves in the most evil, putrid way while they preach to other humans to act towards others in the way they want to be treated. With that thought, I should treat this preaching human like a subservient slave, because through the way they act, they imply their wishes to be treated disgustingly. This is what most would recognize as a “double standard.”
To highlight the main idea of this thread, shootings are not happening because of the removal of religion in schools; shootings are happening because of government conspiracy. If you look at the past in Germany, things similar to this had happened. The shootings in the Colorado school years back may have been on account of real, depressed humans looking for an easy escape, true. However, with the Batman shooting and the recent Sandy Hook shooting, it is no doubt in mine and of many others' minds that this is becoming a developing pattern. Adolph Hitler used a similar tactic to take control of other countries. He would soon take away weapons from the masses because it seemed to be the “safest way out“ of the horrible atrocities happening in the schools. Children were murdered on account of gradually taking control of Eastern Europe, and soon enough the gun bans were implemented. That is what is happening here. Can you not see the pattern? I am no conspiracy theorist, but I am not too shabby at solving a puzzle. This nation is the world's largest military power, and we have financial control over many small countries. That is what Germany had, until they began to take military control over them as well. They were not malicious in nature towards these countries, and the masses believed Hitler was there to help them. He showed love, kindness, and care to these people by offering them education, food, and shelter. Why do you think the United States is replicating this behavior with “third-world” countries? This is why we waste our last dollar into these impoverished places. This is why we have American Embassies in these countries. Please, read between the lines; I cannot stress this enough.
To recap on the religion subject, I can respect a human that believes or does not believe in a god, but I cannot respect a fellow human in denial of what is right in front of them. That goes for both sides of the religious spectrum. The things that are going wrong in the nation and the world itself are because of people who believe in things (e.g. religion, media) blindly for the wrong reasons, and those who force those “blind beliefs” upon others without substantial evidence.
This is a simple problem with a complex solution: opening the eyes of the blind.
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NotPCposted 12 years ago
How is this thread still going... I'm tired of it showing up in my feed. Time to unfollow, too many crazies...
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  jmbowen2012posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Get used to it, my friend. The world is a crazy place.
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  NotPCposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ha very true... I kinda wanna start a viral thread like this... You game?
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  jmbowen2012posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really. This thread is already viral.
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tiptopelectronicsposted 12 years ago
Thank you Sojourner1234 for your support. And here i want to clear that i am talking about GOD in schools not not any religious GOD. In schools they should get knowledge about all religions and their cultures. it should not be like that in christian school they are taught that this religion is all in all. this will be like a to spread terrorism all world.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Motown2Chitown wrote:
Because thankfully, God is far more intelligent and far more level-headed, and ultimately far more merciful than we human beings are.

The only people, for example, who throw away a brand new automobile because of a scratch in the paint are those for whom nothing holds any real value. Otherwise, they repair the tiny problem and move on.

We have great value to God. He does not discard us. He repairs us. All we need to do is show up at the shop.
===============================

I've heard it said on numerous occasions that some of Gods greatest works are those things which were broken that he then made something spactacular out of it.

And i agree.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Show me 20 examples please.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Find twenty people sitting in church. Or even just reading a Bible, trying to figure it out. Or asking God to help them.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those are subjective examples. Could you show some objective examples?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those are objective examples. No, I'm not kidding. Most of the time you have to actually look at the evidence, because it's not as obvious as a lot of people want it to be. I know, it sure wasn't for me.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You obviously have no idea what objective means. If something is objective, then it is not just inside your head, like these delusional assertions, but available for all to see.
  
  It's not obvious, because it is not real.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Saying, purely for the sake of argument, that I don't understand the difference between objective and subjective, I still know what presumptuous means. Someone who has never met me and is constantly wrong about me still feeling the freedom to put forward assertions about me that are unprovable but, in their opinion, self-evident (which in this case means the assertions are incorrect but hey, what are you gonna do? I'm far away so whatever you say about me must therefore be right) simply to fit a hypothesis is, in a word, presumptuous.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My schizophrenic brother adamantly professes that he was abducted by a UFO. I can't prove that he wasn't, but what do you think? My psychotic friend says that her cat talks to her when no one else is around. I can't prove that the cat doesn't talk, because she only does it when no one is around. What do you think? Please remember, you must not be presumptuous...because you have never met these people.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  I love it when you guys say stuff like that! You're certainly never funnier!
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In other words you refuse to participate in a serious debate when your honest answer would make you have to rethink your beliefs. Chris, I only asked you two straight forward and valid questions, yet you just dissed me like I've done something illogical. Could you please explain why simply asking these pertinent questions is so funny? I'm confused. Thanks
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, in other words your pompous inability to understand that someone could honestly believe what I believe because I actually have reason is amusing. Your humorless response is amusing. Your Psych 101 attempt to "turn the tables" is unoriginal but amusing. Your desparate need to chalk my thinking up to a desparate need to avoid cognitive disonance is both applicable to yourself and amusing.
  
  In other words, I laughed because you were funny.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you attacking me with all of these untrue accusations? Wow! I only asked you two straight forward questions, and you have turned this into a full blown attack on me. And even if my attempt is not original, does that, somehow, make it logical that you have avoided answering the questions? I'm trying to see the logic in your rebuttal, but, with all due respect, I just can't find any.
  
  I guess I can do nothing but laugh too, my friend. Bless your heart.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, that right there also made me laugh. You've attacked me plenty of times. You seem to want to take that one post as isolated but I do not. The number of times you've called me names is greater than the number of times I have done the same to you.
  
  I have never refused to answer your questions, you just don't like the answers. Again, they are usually met with some level of vitriol. You may say I don't engage in debate, and depending on what you classify debate as that may be true, but I don't refuse to answer your questions. Those answers usually elicit responses from you about not depending on 2000 year old books, not being illogical, and my refusal to answer your questions. Then I stop giving you straight-ahead answers and suddenly you're the picture of level-headedness.
  
  The answers are still the answers. You may not like them, you may not understand them, and you don't seem to accept them, but they are the answers. If you want to explore my thinking without resorting to insults, I'm always more than willing. Heck, I'll even put up with some level of insults if I thought the person was seriously interested in conversation.
  
  Seemed to me that you were doing that anyway.
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  taburkettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  attend the church of your choice and you will find 20+
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, what you will find is 20 plus disturbed individuals, asserting some childish nonsense about a reality that does not exist. Get real!
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Karreposted 12 years ago
I am not a Christian, but I am a Jesus follower (yes, there is a difference). Lisa, in speaking of God being out of schools -- doesn't this limit God? Doesn't this blame a government or country for what Christians are not doing, which is living out Jesus' teaching? What if we worried more about God being present in our own homes? If we taught our children concepts of morality -- which all religions (and many non-religions) possess, wouldn't that, arguably, bring God into schools with or without law? If one looks at the NT, one will find that Jesus worked and spoke in spite of the law of the land. In addition, perhaps what Huckabee is really referring to is that if God was in schools there would not be any shootings in suburbia or rural America. Afterall, shootings were occurring in inner city schools long before any laws banning collective prayer. Truth is, we are America, which means that while children have the right to pray in schools -- and they do, they do not have the right to collectively pray being led by any teacher. That is state-sponsored religion -- which is never a good thing (look at parts of the Middle East or in Old Europe). If Christians taught their children at home to pray, and if they taught them their rights, then they could pray in school and if one believes that the Holy Spirit moves readily, then one should believe that it moves in spite of man-made laws. In other words, it is time for Christians (and other religions) to quit using everyone else as their excuses for themselves not acting on God's Word. It is time for Christians to have faith and realize that they are part of this world and rather than argue, fight and take stands, perhaps they should follow the example of Jesus and simply love and share his story. If this is the belief, then get out of the way and let God work. Huckabee is playing the blame game and if you look at other countries around the world, his attitude does not exist. Those who do not believe, have the God-given or natural right has humans not to believe. Laws cannot force that. If they do, then we might as well say good-bye to our Republic.
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Karreposted 12 years ago
jonnycomelately: Hi. I agree that too much emphasis is put on "original sin", yet most Christians do not even understand what that sin was. It wasn't using the free will that the Biblical God gave them -- after all it was given to them, nor was it disobeying God or any other superficial. It was the desire to be "God-like". In other words, the desire to rule over, control, have power, each other and everything around them, including God and other people. In other words, not exerting free will but the desire to take other's free will away. Yes, Lisa, that is Biblical (I read Hebrew and have studied the Bible and ancient peoples extensively.) Looking at it this way provides the very basis of behavior that Jews, Muslims and Christians (the three religions stemming from Genesis) should be following -- not taking the free will from others.
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taburkettposted 12 years ago
when individuals erect a wall around themselves that blocks communication with other society members, they create imperfect intellectual or moral depths within the society.
it is this fissure that has led to many horrendous acts by evil individuals who claim their wall is the only way to correct the abyss.
this irrational selfish agenda then generates more corrupting evil as the society empathizes with the demented evil ones.
the flood of evil in society then continues to grow like a weed in the garden.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And I guess you're going to tell us the only way to fix this is through Jesus/God?
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donotfearposted 12 years ago
Good grief! I cannot believe this has turned into an arguing cynical debating match between adults arguing over the Bible, truth, whats correct or incorrect. I only just peeped in here. Is it really necessary to keep throwing darts back and forth? Or wait a minute, yes I can believe it. It's the main reason that others who aren't believers spew forth so much scorn on those who profess to be believers. I'm outta here.........

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  MissJamieDposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly
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donotfearposted 12 years ago
And it goes on & on & on & on & on.....

back and forth back and forth....

I really mean it this time when I say I'm outta here. Sorry to interupt the bantering.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt it. If it bothered you that much you wouldn't have come back just to stick in your two cents.
  
  Is paradigmsearch still lurking about?
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Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years ago
I am back ... someone summarize to me what happened in the 50 pages, while I was gone
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, I was just schooling... No need to read back. Trust me.
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  Ivan Ivanovposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I will stick around to see what's happening and maybe try to help you out a bit ... However, I believe this is a lost cause ... what's dumb is dumb ...
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LisaMarie724posted 12 years ago
The problem is not just schools. The problem is that we took God out of our country entirely. He gave us this great prosperous land where we all could enjoy freedom and happiness. And, now we have turned our backs against him. We don't teach our children to follow him. They see evil. They hear evil. They DO evil. As far as 'if there were a God he wouldn't let this happen', God granted us all free will. We DO NOT have to follow him, but look at the repercussions our country as a whole is experiencing. As for those who do not believe, that is fine. No one has to, but do you find it necessary to ridicule those who do?
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  After writing a whole paragraph that the country is in bad shape because some of the people do not believe as you do, now you are asking why they ridicule you when you say this.
  Can you figure out why or do I have to say?
  By the way, you like the good old days where human beings kept their fellow humans as slaves and killed others for 'blasphemy'?
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  LisaMarie724posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was stating my opinion, and I made it clear that it was fine that others did not believe the same as me. I can't remember once saying that I liked the days when we had slaves and killed others for blasphemy. Obviously if I said that, I was mistaken. Because, I surely DO NOT! It is plain to see that we don't agree, which is fine. But, you seem to want to take this to an entire different level than what it's about....someones opinion.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  After insulting nonbelievers by saying that it is their lack of belief that cause all the problems the country is facing, you are asking why they ridicule you when you state your beliefs er! opinion.
  They too are stating their opinion that what you or your bible states is ridiculous nonsense, aren't they?
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The country was great when people where all pious and now we have all the problems because people have 'turned their back to god'.
  So when people were pious there was no problem. That was the time when slavery was rampant. So it was not a problem? Just deduction from your argument, I didn't add anything.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Am I right in thinking Ostriches are not native to North America?
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It appears they are.
  If I say what you say is nonsense it is just my opinion but if you say my opinion is nonsense you are ridiculing me. Isn't it convenient?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not to be accusatory but doesn't that work both ways? I'm not applying that to you personally because we haven't interacted much, but being on the Christian side I've been pretty often accused of being nonsensical when I don't agree with someone who is an atheist, but their opinion is so self-evidently right that if I did agree with them it would be correct, not based on actual evidence or philosophical argument but based on whether I agree with them.
  
  Both sides are guilty of it.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The question was hers, why she is ridiculed, after writing an entire paragraph which implies the non believers as the cause of all trouble.
  What I said is she should expect nothing but ridicule after an insult.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good grief! I thought all the ostriches in zoos were native! Oops!
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps to you it looks like ridicule and sometimes it may be. But blaming the countries problems on the supernatural without looking at the reality is unnatural. We are trying to get you to pay attention to reality. Ask what are we doing wrong that's in this reality before blaming the problems godlessness. There are many less faithful countries that are doing very well.
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LisaMarie724posted 12 years ago
You may take whatever I say anyway you want. I said exactly what I said, and that's what I meant to say. Perhaps you like arguing on forums, I don't. I stated my opinion, and I will always say what I think. By the way, I tried to check out some of your hubs, and there doesn't seem to be any. Have a nice morning, I've said what I've wanted and I'm finished
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lisa, if your version of christianity suits you in your life, that's fine for you.... but when you try to preach that religion to others, calling it their only salvation (from what I am not too sure), then don't expect to do it without a contrary point of view being put.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well it is just my opinion that your beliefs are ridiculous and bible is nonsense. Period.
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Karreposted 12 years ago
jonycomelately -- I agree with you, but then it appears that my scholarly answer was removed by the writer. I hope not, but it appears that way. Sad because Hubpages is not a blog, its for sharing knowledge and debate.
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atomswifeyposted 12 years ago
Taking God out of our country period is the problem. America has enjoyed great blessings as a nation because we have been faithful to God and Israel. Over these past couple of decades however we have seen a decline in moral accountability and responsibility which is in direct timing with God being systematically removed from our roots and foundations.

One wrote on here about church shootings. They were right as of course God has not been removed from churches, but then again, the "reasoning" or pathology behind the two violent actions are completely different. One act is being committed because God has NOT been removed and the other is a result of the opposite. In other words, one act is being committed as a direct rebellion against God and His people while the other was committed as rebellion against the system of man.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perfectly reasonable for you to believe that, and respected...... as long as it is not mandatory that everyone believe the same.....
  
  Freedom of speech, freedom of expression (within sensible reason), freedom of thought, freedom of beliefs. When you take those factors out of your society then you will have social breakdown.
  
  The one freedom which you should be fighting, is that selfishness which shows up in racism, greed, bullying, cruelty and hypocrisy. Businesses, churches, sects, political persuasions, have all been guilty of this, as have big, rich, powerful and ruthless individuals.
  
  Maybe you could show us where you try to apply your christian principles and morals in your life that will make a difference to your country.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting, do you have statistics to back that up.
  
  Japan 0.7% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 4.6%
  Life Expectancy: 84 years.
  
  United States +75% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 9%
  Life Expectancy: 78.5 years.
  
  Philippines +90% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 7%
  Life Expectancy: 72 years.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One should always be faithful to Israel!
  
  "Over these past couple of decades however we have seen a decline in moral accountability and responsibility"
  Yes, why they outlawed slavery? That was moral!
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Must be strange to think you are not one of Gods chosen people. Makes me a little sic to think that a loving God would have favourites, but that's just me.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well even if you accuse god of favoritism, no god is going to do anything. All religious people assume god as a "person" who protect them, fight for them and give justice. In other words we still have that feudal mindset and the followers see god as their "king". Only when people are really "democratic" they will know that "god" is not an arbiter nor a 'father' king.
  Claire says satan is all powerful and satanists are world rulers, yet we see her reviling satan and satanists with impunity. God, in his "infinite love", may be forgiving, but what happened to this powerful satan, who can punish god's followers and tempt even jesus?
  Or is Claire a satanist?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, Satan is not all powerful. His power comes from our sin. Why shouldn't I condemn Satan and his followers? Your reasoning isn't sound. How is God being forgiving related to Satan punishing God's followers and tempting Jesus? None of your points or my actions merit any questions about me being a Satanist. If I was, I'd be telling you to embrace the god in you or something.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That should read, "....from our within."
  
  Then would read correctly, surely?
  
  Seems to me you are getting closer to reality, Claire. If you said you were going to do some meditation on the teachings of the Buddha, that would bring joy to my heart.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It would bring joy to my heart you facing up to reality.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  reality,
  noun ( pl. realities )
  The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is rich coming from you
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, you have no data or information whatsoever to substantiate your claims.
  
  And, if we looked at the statistics, we find crime has decreased dramatically over the past couple decades. Seems the removal of God out of the country has certainly had some positive effects.
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can you honestly look at whats going on in the world today, and say that the removal of God has had positive effects? That's absurd!
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think I have to repost a post from a few days ago.
  
  Interesting, do you have statistics to back that up.
  
  Japan 0.7% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 4.6%
  Life Expectancy: 84 years.
  
  United States +75% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 9%
  Life Expectancy: 78.5 years.
  
  Philippines +90% Christian.
  Unemployment Rate: 7%
  Life Expectancy: 72 years.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gods only offer negative effects and little more. As time moves on, more and more of the worlds population are becoming non-believers, they are discarding the myths and superstitions that have held societies in slavery these many millennium. It is absurd to think that gods have had any positive effects.
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are no such thing as Gods there is only one God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. That's actually really funny. It shows a true denial of reality.
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can laugh all you want, but that's not a denial of reality to have faith in God.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
  
  No proof or evidence needed. The reality is that wouldn't even hold up in any court. "But your honour even though the breathalyzer and officer submitted evidence of my drinking and driving you'll just have to take my word on faith that I wasn't drunk at all".
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't need proof.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm aware you don't need proof, that's because you have faith and faith has nothing to do with reality except in the reality that you have faith.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I'm quite sure your faith in God is most certainly a reality, it is the God itself that is highly questionable.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Let me guess. It just happens to be the one you serve. How lucky you are!
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go ahead laugh it up, but there is only one true God and it's the same God that Abram served,and when you hear people talk about gods they are referring to the greek gods such as the sun god, the god of fire, the god of jupiter, water, wind, the moon god, and it just simply isn't true that's why I said that there is one true God , Read your bible, and then read greek mythology, and you will get a better understanding. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend what I meant by gods.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lisa, you have simply accepted the "god" that appeals to your needs. Others will accept "gods" that appeal to their needs.
  
  The "gods" of the Hindu religion are metaphors depicting various attributes of the human experience, for example Ganesh the Elephant-like character; Kali the Bitch-like character; etc.
  
  If the "God of Abraham" satisfies your needs, your understanding or your life experience, then that is your choice and respected as such.
  
  But you are not justified in wanting everyone else to take on your preferences and interpretations. It all goes to show you that your choices come from your mind and your desires, nothing to do with a common reality.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jonny, you said that with much more compassion and patients than I ever could have.
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  lisariley11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  well I can't change the minds of people and i'm not trying to i'm just simply defending the God that I love, and some will say "well if your god needs defending than how powerful is he" i have heard it all and when you love someone or something you defend it.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think that is really "love?" Or could it be a fear of having one's beliefs questioned and (maybe) shown to be erroneous, when that can be very embarrassing and cause one to change one' mind?
  
  I am not making a statement here, just offering you something more to consider and clarify your own mind (if your mind needs it).
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Greek mythology is far more convincing than the Bible. At the very least, Greek gods admit to being selfish, cruel and arrogant.
  
  Attempting to tell us that your god is the one and only god while all the others are myths with the reasoning "it just simply isn't true" is stunningly myopic.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The laughter is because this is a biased, self righteous, and closed mindset....yet you assert it as if it were irrefutable facts. Those people who are ensconced in their rigid indoctrination, in a very limited microcosm, have no idea how blind to reality this mindset is...
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why? Because many historians only want to play up the negative aspects of religion, and assume that ancient people's were basically modern peoples but held down? Is that really logical?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is a very human response to many Christians-and we've seen some of them in this very very long thread- who refuse to admit ANY negative consequences to religion.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I've often pointed out that both sides are often guilty of the same sorts of behavior. And it is easy to get caught up in trying so hard to defend your side that you forget the whole picture.
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  Zelkiiroposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And you're trying to suggest that's NOT overwhelmingly the case?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm not trying to suggest it.
  
  I'm stating it categorically.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure that's the motives of historians? Or, is it such that only the negative aspects of anything usually are what makes for news. Or perhaps, it's because religions have been first and foremost a priority of the human condition for so long, their successes have been overwhelmed by their failures at making the human condition anything but human.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  While it's true that the negative makes the news (the old joke about how if the evening news had nothing but nice stories, people wouldn't tune it) that doesn't mean that the failures truly overwhelm the successes. In the modern age, when religion is in a different status in so many places than it once was, the tendency to play up the failures (and they do exist, please don't think I believe otherwise) can make it seem like there's really nothing to it.
  
  Obviously, as a Christian, I tend to think that Christianity has made the world a better place on the whole. The Inquisition and the Priest Abuse scandals notwithstanding, or the downfalls of Swaggart, Baker and Haggard (often referred to as the "Big Three downfalls" in Evangelical circles) also notwithstanding, for many people Christianity is a good thing. And, just like the evening news, you hear from the people who suffered in one way or another far more than you hear from the many more people who have found something good in it. And the sufferers usually did so because of situations they had no control over. That doesn't mean their suffering wasn't real, or that it should be blown off. But it does mean that it's not the whole story of the religion.
  
  And yes, there are some historians, or at least people who purport to use history (like the oft-mentioned Dawkins) whose antipathy toward the religion predates and influences their treatment of it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And yet, there's nothing to show that Christianity has had that affect. It hasn't, quite the contrary, it has done little more than suppress and stagnate many aspects of societies and mankind in general, often trading reason and rationale for myth and superstition. Christianity has been forced over the centuries to continuously change in the face of facts and evidence, despite its stranglehold on people.
  
  If instead, mankind were given the opportunity to flourish under reason and rationale these many past centuries, Galileo would not have been held a prisoner of the Church for his ideas, but instead may have been the first man on the moon.
  
  Dawkins has always produced facts and evidence to support his position.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dawkins has produced facts and a lot of self-serving (and vituperative) interpretation and seems to really enjoy the controversy. As one person remarked, "Really smart guy, crummy philosopher."
  
  I don't know, I think if you look across the whole of history, you'd be hard pressed to really, factually state that if Christianity hadn't happened that humanity would have flourished. I think if you really look at history, quite the opposite, in fact. If you look at the whole, and not just the last couple of hundred years (and even then, I don't see the record as showing more harm than good.)
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is not factually correct Chris. The progress was only in the last 2 or 3 centuries when people got rid of christianity. Otherwise the last 20 centuries were stagnant and the advance the greeks got, had to be preserved by the Arabs.
  Religion always try to maintain the status quo, not progress. See India, being one of the first civilization and democracy, its just an underdeveloped nation now, with hardly any democracy). The only exception may be China, which had an edge over technology. How its lost I have no idea (Chinese history, I do not know much).
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not factually correct. Interpretationally, if you prefer to think that way, be my guest but from a purely historical fact point of view, that's not the case.
  
  Nice try though.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you actually go back and look at history, and not just in one spot, you will find that in many instances Christianity unlocked the status quo, not maintained it. It's actually just as human to want things to "remain the same" as to progress (you know that great "Peanuts" cartoon where in the last panel Lucy winds up shouting, "I want progress! I just don't want things to change!") Same for the Jewish faith. In many places it unlocked certain cultural aspects, allowing them to move forward. The "progress" of the last 2 or 3 centuries would, in fact, have not happened. Many of the ideas we consider to be so "enlightened," like the equality of people and the immense worth of each individual, were ideas often appropriated wholesale from the Judeo-Christian mindset. If you go back through history, most cultures, whatever their religion or even if they had no religion (often especially if they had no religion) tended to downplay the worth of the individual unless they were "special" and even then only in their usefulness to whoever was in power.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to disappoint you Chris,
  Every religion assert human equality at the same time saying there own group is special. Every religion has contrary teachings, its only who interpret it. You say judeo Christian is the one who brought equality, then why the jews thought other tribes are inferior and can be dispensed with or the christians killed? It is the American "all are equal but some are more equal" talk you are doing. Liberty and equality are brought forth by the French revolutionists.
  Say for example, Gita of Hindus teach who ever pray to krishna can reach him irrespective of his caste and creed. It is a book that instigate Arjuna to take up weapons and go to war but it is the same book that Gandhi used to get his "non violence".
  So it doesn't matter what the books says, it says everything, but what is dominant proponents do that matters.
  The Greeks had superior philosophy, it was socrates who first said the "do unto others. ." stuff. Athens was a democracy and Sparta considered women equal, was it the same with christianity? Once Christianity became established all the greek writings were lost to Europe and it got boggled down in petty religious nuances and tortured its own public for heresy and its this specific reason why it is called "dark ages" and only when the hold of religion was loosened by enlightenment Europe progressed again. Christanity only continued the priest oriented society of the jews along with the feudalism of romans. Individualism and worth of individual came into prominence by enlightenment and the French revolution and its specifically Voltaire and Rousseau were its most vociferous champions not christians.
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  Karreposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Riddle. You make a good point in identifying that all religions (and nonreligions) have considered theirs more special. But this has been at different times and cannot really be lumped together. There are periods when Christians were not so enlightened and times when they were. I would also argue that Christianity has brought much equality over the years, it has also hindered it. Jesus, on the other hand, focused totally on equality, as did Muhammad. Socrates did have those ideas, and he died for it. Athens was a direct democracy that only allowed free men to take part. The Greek writings were not lost to Europe. Actually, they had been transcribed in Arabic and saved by Muslims when the Mongols invaded. The Greek (five eras of it) and Hebrew writings were then retranscribed into Greek from Arabic. Christianity was used by the Roman Catholic Church to gain control and power, but there was a lot more going on at the time. The French Revolution was not what brought liberty and equality. It was the American Revolution. Burke criticized the FR because those involved saw no future, had no purpose, no goal, just an idea. While the AR was not perfect in regards to equality, it did form a system for which equality could then be made for all. The founders deliberately added natural rights as well as God-given to encompass both view points. Locke,, not Voltaire or Rousseau, was the one who championed equality -- natural rights. They championed a form of enlightenment, but honestly, the enlightenment had very little to do with freedom or liberty. That was not the main concern of the enlightenment. The focus was using reason, or a scientific method, to change society, not necessarily to its betterment. Having said that, the enlightenment is grounded in Christianity. As for American Christianity, it has been the champion of freedom -- helping to end slavery, etc. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have a ways to go -- women's rights, for example. My points are this -- we cannot generalize that any religion or nonreligion has been the same for thousands of years. It changes just like people do. Second, its important to understand political thought, religion and history in the context of what was going on at the time, not how we view it now.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Karre,
  I know the greek was preserved by Arabs and I mentioned it in my first reply to Chris, what I meant was it was lost to the Europeans.
  Locke might be the first but it was popularised by the two I mentioned which was later adopted by American founders. Most of what you said I agree.
  But I have my disagreements too.
  Religion always try to maintain the status quo. Some times some visionaries come who challenge the status quo and get followers and may even manage to bring about change. After he is gone his followers will stick to what he said and maintain a new status quo or even revert to the former (like the animal farm of Orwell) resisting all changes.
  
  Lets take jesus (I doubt whether he was a real person), he brought change and got killed in the process. His followers established a new religion and started fighting to keep that order. When the shackles got too tight new leaders and philosophers came that challenged christianity and along with it ushered the era of individualism.
  (I don't consider America separate from Europe, the roots are the same, though individualism is more there)
  The French had only an idea. Though the French didn't know how to continue with it (as theirs were the first experiment and were surrounded by people opposed to it), it certainly spread far and wide.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a little doubtful, but then again I also doubt you'll disappoint me.
  Very true and I've never said otherwise. That's a new one. Usually I spend my time hearing that all religions are basically the same.
  OOOOOOO!!! Nice try. If you actually read the Bible, you will see that the Jews were taught by God that all men are created in His image. The fact that many Jews chose to interpret it as they were special was, in fact, denied by Jesus. It is true that the Jews were chosen by God. What is untrue is that this made them better than others, only chosen (which is different.) So no, I'm not in any way saying "some are more equal than others." In fact, I'm saying exactly the opposite.
  As for the French revolutionists, notice that many of the thinkers were actually seminary students who appropriated Christian ideas but stripped God out of it. And if you can look at the French Revolution and call that a time of Liberté, égalité, fraternité, then have I got a bridge to sell you... While it's true that the peasantry had been used and oppressed horrendously, they were more than happy to repay the favor and were in some instance more like animals than men in exacting their revenge. So no, liberty and equality may have been brought forth in theory by the French Revolution, but in practice the world had to endure Napoleon first.
  You know, to a certain extent this is what I've been saying for years. In fact, the Book (Bible) does not "say everything." Especially the New Testament. But men will do what they want to do and will look for any excuse to do it. So in that sense, it is what the dominant proponents do that matters. It's certainly what is visible and what those who don't share the belief system judge by.
  What Socrates wrote was "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." Socrates was passive, while the Golden Rule is proactive. Still, yes, it's no secret that many religions and philosophies have some variation of the wording somewhere. At the same time, it could be said that women were considered inferior in Athens and Sparta was more like a feudal serf state than a democracy. Your point? Jesus did talk to women, and women figured prominently in some events of His life. This is different from the Jewish leaders of the day, who would not do that. The basic truth of Christianity rests in the existence of God, not in it's perceived superiority or inferiority to other religions or philosophies. Nit-picking is endlessly entertaining, but it really misses the basic point. However, even aside from the existence of God, nit-picking is endlessly entertaining but misses the point. You do realize that it was pagan and illiterate Germanic tribes sacking of Rome that caused so much to be lost, not any Christian program, right? It was monks in the hinterlands who preserved Greek and Roman writings, not non-Christian groups who were busy pillaging Rome. So although the timeline is (incomplete but not in)correct, it completely misrepresents what actually happened. Sort of. Actually, it was the "enlightenment" philosophers (again, many of whom hijacked Christian concepts of brotherhood and equality) wanting to feel superior to the 'dark ages' who coined the term. A lot actually happened in the middle ages. Again, that's open for debate. No, not really.
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  I didn't say each religion has contrary teachings to others, I said contrary and contradictory teachings in the religion itself.
  
  I agree with you that every religion says humans are equal, but the same religion says its followers alone are good. It is the same OT that exert to keep slaves and kill other tribes(All religion is similar here, for religion is basically created for 'in group' cohesion by exclusion of others). It is not by the teachings but by the doings one is assessed.
  In revolutions it is rarely the people who start it that end it. Once a revolution start it gains a momentum of its own and its not principles but human herd psychology that leads it. But that does not change the fact that it was Voltaire's and Rousseau's writings that instigated and they were in turn influenced by John Locke(as pointed out by Karre). Even if we grant that that was not original but got from bible, it still is important because it was all there in bible for 1500 years but no Christian saw it.
  
  Even new testament is no different, jesus at one place say that not a letter of the old law will be changed and he came to fulfil it. It is all there, only people select what they choose.
  
  I know what Socrates said and that is why I didn't quote. It appears like what Voltaire did, copy from an earlier author and modify it. The author who wrote it knew Greek and changed what Socrates said. But is the Golden rule so golden? Is your like the same as mine? If I do to you what I like, will you like it?
  Yes variations are every where because humans are basically the same everywhere. Even Lincoln's Gettysburg address was not knew if one thinks like that.
  
  Even then Christians never treated women as equal and the epistles exert women to be obedient to their husbands. You are nit-picking the good parts, the theory to say Christianity is good, while I am bringing your attention to the practise to let you know that religion preserves status quo. A good example is neither Jesus nor his disciples said a word against slavery. The existence of god is preached by every religion, without god they cannot get neither authority nor money.
  
  You do ignore the fact that it was Christians themselves that destroyed the majority of books.
  
  It can be said that the christains hijacked the greek ideas, the ideas were there for more than 15000 years and was not noticed by christians alone is sufficient to say that the ideas were original. The less said about the middle ages the better. Except a few wars, the pope gaining supremacy and getting drunk with power, Europe impoverishing itself that even Timur looked at it with contempt, deaths in the name of jesus and crusades, witch huntings....what was so good about middle ages?
  The one man who really brought an end to it is Gutenberg. It was the printing press that actually ended the middle ages, not christianity. Christianity caused it and preserved it, and when it was gone the biggest losers were the popes and priests.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just a question, I am not a scholar in any of this subject, but: Was not the ability to print the Bible in a language which the average person in Britain might read and understand, one of the advances which allowed people to question the Pope's authority?
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and that is the reason why I say Gutenberg is the man who ended the middle ages.
  Before him people have to follow what the priests said after that they read and started to criticize the priests first and then the bible itself. Protestantinsm was born first then atheism.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity does not contain self-contradictory teachings. The teachings may not be applied correctly by people, including often myself, but they don't contradict each other. I can't speak for other religions.
  Christianity does NOT say that. If you actually read the Bible, including the words of Jesus, you cannot come to that conclusion. I've dealt with the slavery thing in hubs. My one about the NT is actually my second most popular. Really? Francis of Assissi never saw it? The Christian abolitionists never saw it? No one? Sure about that?
  The NT is different. The Law did not change. But a lot of the extraneous rules and self-serving interpretations did. Jesus even talked about that (ever heard of the word "corbin?") And no one said it was. It's no secret that Lincoln believed in abolition but did not think black people inherently the equal of whites. And your point about the Golden Rule is certainly valid but it's the start of a discussion, not the end of one. From there we should look into exactly what it means to follow God and to be a follower of Jesus, not decide that it's bunk because you might like different things than I do. Again, go to my hub. I'm not trying to advertise myself, sorry if it sounds like it, but I dealt with the fact that Jesus and Paul did deal with equality and slavery in much more depth than I could do here. And no, I'm not nit-picking the good parts. I acknowledge human history. What you think you are bringing to my attention has been shoved down my throat before and I have not shrunk from it. I probably have a reputation as some kind of intractable malcontent in certain parts because of it, but I deal with it. I'm not ignoring what didn't happen. Some Christians did destroy books, but the majority were not destroyed by the Christians, they were destroyed by the invaders who didn't see any use for literature or for "Roman" culture. Although Gutenburg certainly was instrumental in it, he was not the single largest factor. If anything, Luther translating the Bible into German could be considered just as big if not bigger. He gave the Germans a unified written language, which the KJV also did for the English. Saying the Church preserved the status quo would be correct, the Catholic church had problems. Saying Christianity perserved it would be incorrect because many of the priests and even popes did not know what was in the Bible and weren't teachings what Jesus said.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think the point is that Dawkins is not really trying to philosophize, but instead break down certain philosophies using evidence and reason.
  
  Yes, he is a really smart guy, that's entirely the point.
  
  If we look across the whole of history, we would have to look much further back before Christianity and what led to its origins. It can easily be argued that beliefs in gods kept men tribal and in constant conflict with one another. Christianity did nothing to change that and instead, perpetuated it.
  
  Even today, Christianity is at the heart of many conflicts from the simple teaching of evolution in classrooms to birth control and stem cell research.
  
  If you wish to undertake such a task, there is a tremendous amount of historical information in various forms that could be used to support either argument.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, something we agree on. Will miracles never cease?
  
  Dawkins is a smart guy, but he's far from the only smart guy in the room when the conversation turns to religion. I'll concede as a starting point that he is far smarter than I am but that doesn't necessarily mean his points are correct. Smart people can have preconceptions. Granted, that works both ways but to assume that just because he's smart means he's correct is a logical fallacy. In fact, Dawkins has fallen into the trap that I see a lot of smart people fall into, on both sides, that they reason a) I am smart (there are varying amounts of arrogance and even hubris involved in this and both sides have people who are guilty,) b) I see evidence that makes my conclusion obvious to me, therefor c) anybody who disagrees with me is missing something, and the harder they disagree with me, the more they are missing it. I don't mean "missing" in terms of "don't get the whole picture." I mean it in terms of "they lack some component they should have to be truly whole." I hear it when I listen to Christians who turn to the easy answer of depravity and people wanting to hold on to it as their reason for rejecting God. And I hear it when I listen to or read atheists basically state point-blank (as some have) that they just have decided that anyone who believes in God must just not want to think for themselves. Few really sit and wonder why other people see things so differently than they do. I am not smart enough to really wrap my head around it but as someone who literally has walked both sides of the issue, I do think about it. I wonder why.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, he knows religion far better than most.
  
  Please feel free to show us those incorrect points.
  
  No one ever made that claim, including Dawkins.
  
  Again, please feel free to support your claims with evidence.
  
  We do understand, it's called religious indoctrination.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, you just proved my point for me.
  
  Thank you.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  !
  
  Thank you!
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everybody needs a little background music when they make a dramatic statement.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Drum roll......crescendo of introductary bars........"The Hills are alive with the sound of music......."
  
  Chris and Beth and JCL and Uncle Tom Cobbly and All in the chorus.......
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't want me in that chorus, I'm a terrible singer!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, you make claims that have no evidence, I ask you to produce the evidence and that is your response?
  
  Are you drunk or something?
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I said that people on both sides fall into the trap of making sweeping generalizations about the "other side" and you then said you understood and proceeded to make a sweeping generalization about people like me. So in that way, yes, you proved my point.
  
  I don't drink. Never learned to like the stuff, even when I was younger and not a Christian and was trying. Are you smoking hash or something?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not confortable with the manner at which you guys are discussing alcohol in a negative manner. That is alcohol abuse and I will not stand for it.
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  Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll drink to that!
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  Drive By Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll drink to that!
  
  Chris . . . No hash here, but I have some Diesel Crypie you might like!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Me either! I'm gonna go lie down now...
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hear! Hear!
  
  Alcohol is a gift from God. I will not stand to have it verbally abused.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's a caring bear.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How Beer Saved the World
  
  http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-beer … the-world/
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now that is Journalism.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We only ever got to know about it by "word of mouth!"
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is false and you know it. Nowhere in that post did I make any statements about you at all. Why are you lying about that?
  
  You still didn't provide any evidence for your claims, so I can only assume your false statement is a detour from that obligation.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You said it was religious indoctrination. That was a sweeping generalization, whether you want to admit it or not. So it's not false.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Childhood religious indoctrination may be a sweeping generalization, but it applies to most, if not all believers. If it weren't for the fact that religions are little more than indoctrination machines, they wouldn't exist today.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know, it's not really giving me any joy for you to keep proving my point over and over and over again.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one is proving your points, Chris. While, it may be an easy answer because you have nothing to say, it's still false.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You've kept proving it. I say that it amazes me how many smart people just decide based on sweeping assumptions that the other side is wrong for "x" reason and then you proceed to do exactly that. Over and over again. And then claim that the sweeping assumption you just made is not that but a proven fact when, in fact, you have no proof.
  
  And then you accuse me of the same.
  
  Talk about your easy answers...
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Chris, the fact that many believers are indoctrinated into their religions does not equate nor validate the beliefs of the religion. THAT would indeed be a conclusion agreeing with your statement about sweeping assumptions.
  
  There are also other avenues of indoctrination in society, they also do not equate nor validate the philosophies they originate.
  
  But Chris, there is indeed a great deal of information and studies regarding indoctrination and religious indoctrination. Dawkins provided an example of child abuse in regards to labeling children who clearly have no capacity to fathom, let alone impugn the religion they've been assigned.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So what? You still make a sweeping assumption, as does Dawkins. Simply because YOU don't understand why another person doesn't believe the way you do does not mean that someone who presents you with an easy conclusion ("they're stupid, they've been indoctrinated, they like being a nasty person too much") is correct no matter what kind of documentation they purport to back that claim up with. And you've as yet to one time come up with any such conclusion that I could fit into under any but the most tortured reasoning.
  
  And there are lots of smart people who can't comprehend why everybody doesn't think the way they do.
  
  You know the old quote? H L Mencken? For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. And this is no exception.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's based on observational evidence, not assumptions.
  
  The only documentation they have is scriptures, nothing more. Yes, we understand why they believe.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's a sweeping assumption based on a faulty processing of limited observation. For every researcher who carefully attempts to quantify the evidence that is there, ten fools rush in (on both sides) to pass judgement and pronounce sentence.
  
  It ain't all about what you consider "documentation."
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but that is not true and you know it. That's the problem, Chris, so many things you say here are simply not true.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  IF I KNEW IT WASN'T TRUE I WOULDN'T SAY IT!
  
  GET A CLUE!
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you've got an explanation for everything, no matter how outlandish and illogical.
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freshnewseoposted 12 years ago
all a loada bollox really religion should not come into this and the jap stats oh ok lets just shoot some whales for scientific fun
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Karreposted 12 years ago
Excellent Jonnycomelately! Well-put.
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Karreposted 12 years ago
No, I think jonny said it right. There are people on both sides who attempt to control and influence others negatively.
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Karreposted 12 years ago
:-) Sorry.
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Fastianposted 12 years ago
The soul can only be in peace when it is attached to God Almighty. All the restlessness of this materialistic world is due to the distance we have with God. Keep on leaving God out of your lives - "We'll sort everything out" - and He'll keep peace out of your hearts.
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  The Suburban Poetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Fastian - We have seen the history of violence perpetrated by Christians over the centuries. George Bush declared Jesus to be his Lord and savior.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is as opposed to which group, specifically?
  
  Lots of people claim to belong to something they don't understand or follow, even if they think they are. Christians have done a lot of good things as well.
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  Karreposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I sure wish there was a "like" button on hubpages, lol. Great question Chris.
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  The Suburban Poetposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My comment was based upon the blanket assertion that was made. It's WAY more nuanced than what was represented. Of course humans of all types, creeds, races, nationalities and religions have done good and bad. To say that if you believe in God you will have peace in your heart and leave it at that is grossly distorted OR it is one person who somehow thinks THEY have it right and the others who claim to be Christians do not. BELIEVE ME I hear this stuff all the time. You have no idea how many Christians in my personal life speak as assuredly as you guys do...
  
  To say the soul CAN ONLY BE AT PEACE.... etc is an absolute statement of fact and that's fine but in my view it is one man's opinion.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you!
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Beth37posted 12 years ago
Did you guys know there's other subjects on this forum? You can even start one. Who likes origami?!
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  riddle666posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For that you have to start a new forum, its against rules to discuss origami in this thread.
  Take the forum page"(http://hubpages.com/forum/20" - 20 is religion, remove the 20 and submit you get all the available forums, select the one you want) , in the right top there is "start a new discussion" in green background and click and you can start a new thread. But if it is origami, I do not think it is the religious forum you want.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see. (she said to the blind man. )
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LIghten up, dude!
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought Origami played a fascinating part in Blade Runner...
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Fastianposted 12 years ago
"Alcohol Abuse". Though first time I heard such a term I see nothing wrong in it. Evil must be discussed in a negative manner.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The only way to abuse Alcohol is to spill it or discuss it in a negative manner.
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SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago
I think that the definition of God is the problem, not God. It's people's definitions of God that are not correct...

here's my idea from years of study of religions, souls and philosophies of virtue, etc...

Each of us as an individual is of God, is God in manifestation, whether we believe it or not. So, morals are an act or non- action of each person. BUT, to believe we are a part of God, is a power much bigger than each of us as individuals...

so when God is not in the schools, because of laws that don't believe in that power of the love that holds the human race together...bad stuff happens because individuals think they are separate and alone and then become afraid, so then they cause problems or create mayhem or murder

God is not some super being in the sky somewhere, but in our love that holds us all together...so to believe in God is to believe in the power of love that holds us together.

I have found that the need to believe in God as an all powerful being is a psychological need, hence a valid need toward healing oneself back into a state of love...it is a process.

Likewise, to not believe in God as an all powerful Energy Source of Love, is a hinderance as well to the unity the human race needs to survive and progress
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But, the definition of god IS the definition from the people who offer them, no matter however vastly superlative and indiscriminate their gibberish. Therein lies the problem.
  
  Isn't the only real definition of God the one in which we all would agree?
  
  Wouldn't God have made us that way?
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  SparklingJewelposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  a troubled man wrote:
  
  "But, the definition of god IS the definition from the people who offer them, no matter however vastly superlative and indiscriminate their gibberish. Therein lies the problem.
  
  Isn't the only real definition of God the one in which we all would agree?
  
  Wouldn't God have made us that way?"
  
  I think that it is the place to start...come together and decide what can we agree on. But, it would never be productive if non-believers came together with believers just to try and convince each other they are right and the other is wrong, name call, blame, etc...
  
  Love could be something to agree upon, a point to bring us together and that we expect to change our views in some way or another (once everyone accepted and understood that none of us are perfect because we all have a psychology to heal).
  
  that is why all the problems can't be solved with laws and more laws...because everyone thinks differently about what this or that is. there should never have been a law to outlaw God in a classroom...only a common understanding that the time set aside is a quiet time to be used for ones own inner reflection and establishment of peace within self and between others... be it a focus on prayer with one's version of God, or honor of nature, or whatever...
  
  The way I see things now, and I am open to change, why do egos have to fight about who is right and who is wrong....
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You want to set a time aside in the school day for anyone to pray if they want to? That's called recess.
  
  You are correct in that it would be nice for everyone to agree about the definition of God. Unfortunately all the different religions think they are right and that even entertaining the thought that other religions are right is the devils temptation.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That will never happen, there will never be agreement based on how humans define God.
  
  Only God can tell us all that. We await his sage intervention in that regard.
  
  Believers themselves cannot agree and tell other believers they are wrong, including the name calling, etc.
  
  Nonsense, the concept of love has failed miserably with Christianity.
  
  Because it is the egos who wish to define God in light of God.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, because God is a being who exists independent of us. Just as you exist as you are, regardless of how other people define you and no matter how many people agree on that definition, so it is with God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So what? If God created us, then He would have His presence known to all of us. Your explanation doesn't apply to that.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He does have His presence known to all of us.
  
  Can't believe you actually walked into that one...
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not so sure, I've been looking for evidence for a long time, but until my recent lottery winnings I've not seen any.
  
  I have been giving it some thought ever since.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't discount it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See, another post with no truth contained within. Blatant, dishonest deception.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's not. Simply saying it is doesn't make it so.
  
  The Bible is open for everyone. You can read it whenever you like. And there are questions that science simply doesn't answer, questions that at the least leave the door open. Where did the universe come from? Whether you subscribe to the Big Bang or some other scientific theory (I'm not talking Creationism. I know that some people who aren't religious disagree with BB, I'm just not sure what they replace it with) the ultimate question doesn't really get answered. The famous quote "It's just always been there," is as much a statement of faith as any religious person ever made.
  
  And there are too many stories of people whose lives have been changed in real, positive ways (including my own) for it to be just indoctrination or superstition. All this may not add up to the sort of "hard proof" that you say you're looking for, but to simply dismiss it and denigrate it like that is not the sign of an enlightened mind, it's the sign of a closed one.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a matter of simply saying so, we all know you can't support that claim in any way, shape or form. It's pure baloney.
  
  I have and found it to be a book of myths and superstitions just like so many other scriptures from other religions. Some nice literature in there, but the crux of the stories are pure baloney.
  
  Once again, you resort to fallacies to make your point on a question that has yet to answered. It is typical of believers to say such things in light of their fairy tale answers of invisible magical sky daddies waving their magical hands.
  
  So what? None of that supports your claims in the least.
  
  Hardly. Anyone who trades religion for their problems have done nothing more than trade vice for another.
  
  LOL. No Chris, your fallacious arguments are the sign of a closed mind.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then at best, it's a sign of taking one to know one.
  
  Well, trading barbs and all is great fun, old bean, but if this is what our conversation is reduced to...
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Sojourner1234posted 12 years ago
Codester, I agree with most of what you've indicated here. I appreciate the input and feedback. Just so you know too, I was not saying (regarding the evil person, people that do evil) that anyone may not be saved (may not receive the free gift of salvation) just because their sins are 'worse', in how we might weigh them, than the sin of someone else. I agree that if anyone accepts the free gift of God for salvation that they would be saved. Thanks again for the comments!
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healthyfitnessposted 12 years ago
What happened to god, did he get expelled for poor grades?
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
I'm just feeling patriotic again. So...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMVj04lfyo

And give yourself full-screen while you are at it. Bye.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
No, He's like a good father who is trying to teach His children the right way to have a good relationship with Him and each other.

A Troubled Man wrote No father other than one who is a psychopath would ever treat his children the same way as your god.
=============
Me If we see our life on earth as just a bunch of children playing in a playground; and God is the overseer, No matter what kind of rules that are set in place, some of us are going to bend or break them. We find excuses and maneuver around and through them. Any excuse will do for not doing what we don't want to do as any excuse will do for doing that which we want to do.
I can't do that! really means that we don't want to enough.
I gotta do this means that I want to very much.
In the end, we can (in our own mind) cause the good guy to appear as the bad guy and vice versa.
If any of us thinks that we could establish a better system of physical existence; we are lying to ourselves. No one can please all the people all of the time.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're kidding right? Are you telling me none of us could if given God like powers improve life here on earth?
  
  http://www.gofundme.com/23h408
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you telling me that you could set up a system that everyone would be pleased with?
  You are kidding me right?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you not satisfied with reality? Do you need to embrace invisible super beings in order to be satisfied?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who among us doesn't want childhood cancer to be a thing of the past? I guess you didn't get that from the link.
  
  http://www.gofundme.com/23h408
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Yes everyone wishes cancer, heart disease, etc etc. never existed. These are things that we have done to ourselves, to our children and grandchildren with the things we do. Our diet, attitudes, and way of life in general has given rise to many diseases which was never destined to be.
  Each and every individual on this earth has created the reality of these things in the things that we do as individuals and as a group by the things we do and don't do.
  If there is a creator of any kind and I believe there is, No matter the system set up; WE will find a way to mess it up. And because it is messed up some of us blame the creator or insinuate because of these things there is no creator. To each their own.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Cancers and heart decease don't exist where humanity isn't? Wild animals don't get ill?
  
  How do you explain away malaria, The Guinea Worm or The Filarial Worm? Do you have a new diet that can eradicate parasites?
  
  http://www.cracked.com/article_17199_th … lanet.html
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol of course wild animals get ill.....the world is full of sickness and disease. Granted they should experience less that say any domestic animal ,but none , incorrect.
  
  It is ludicrous to think it has a invisible border that it never crosses , ie 'the wild"
  
  P.S If that theory were correct ,we wouldnt have endangered species being protected right now.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was responding to JERAMI's post in which he stated that all cancer was caused by humans.
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  Robertr04posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Improvement of life here on earth is subject to the perception of the individual looking at it. There are some people that will never be fully satisfied even if given everything they want. The end result could possible by a person who then complains about having everything and being complacently bored with not having anything else to do or get
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2. 58
  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are not children playing in a playground.
  
  We don't need to set up a system of physical existence, reality has accomplished that for us.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then reality is the thing that many of us are calling God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you call an apple a banana, too?
  
  Sorry dude, reality is one thing and your invisible God is entirely another. Even, a person sporting a dictionary can figure that one out.
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3. 0
  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wait What?? Sorry, but this statement isn't very clear or concise to me.. I'm sure there is some type of wisdom here, but I'm missing it completely
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't know if there is any wisdom, and don't know how to explain it any differently.
  Just know than we can find fault in anything if fault is what we are looking for.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't looking for fault, I just didn't quite get it the first time.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry i wasn't meaning to suggest that you were. The last statement was more in lines with the statement I had made before that.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Rad Man wrote
How do you explain away malaria, The Guinea Worm or The Filarial Worm? Do you have a new diet that can eradicate parasites?
====================
Do away with parasites? Most everything I can think of is a parasite of sorts. The only difference between us and a parasite is that we don't allow our host to survive in most cases. Everything survives by consuming some other life form.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, but I understand what parasites are, now can you explain why in this perfect world made by God we have malaria, The Guinea Worm or The Filarial Worm? You claimed humans can't even imagine a more perfect universe and then you blamed humanity for cancer, so continuing alone this line I'd like you to explain the presence of malaria, The Guinea Worm or The Filarial Worm?
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say humans couldn't imagine it, I said we can't accomplish it. There will always be a problem that we didn't consider. and when we fix one problem another will be created, as long as a human element is involved.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Human's have been constantly improving on what nature has dealt us. Eradicating diseases and extending life expectancy.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And when we FIX the problem of death we will give rise to many other problems.
  One of which, ... The population will eventually increase to the point that even if we could feed ourselves we would have to outlaw new births entirely. Death of the old generation in order to make room for the next
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  0
  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, repeating my argument that same-gender partnerships should be promoted as benefiting the planet.
  
  Same-gender partnerships do not give rise to a larger population.
  Same-gender partnerships are in many instances more stable, more loving, more intentional than heterosexual marriages. They are arrived at, mostly, after a fairly long friendship and lots of careful thought; not as a knee-jerk reaction to an unwanted pregnancy.
  
  Many of the unwanted fetuses which will otherwise be aborted for convenience sake, could be brought to term, with the promise of a loving family life with two loving same-gender persons. When accepted by the wider community in which they live, they will grow up into integrated personalities, valued members of society. These young people will be free to choose their religion or philosophy; unhindered by bigotry and ignorance.
  
  What a wonderful world we can envisage! Not so over-populated and much more capable of feeding itself.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The so-called "natural" paracites do not usually destroy their host. It's not in their interests to do so.
  
  However, if we see us humans as paracitic upon the world, we are rapidly moving to a point where we will have destroyed the very ecosystem that sustains us.
  
  What happens when we have destroyed ourselves and our home land? When there are no more humans dominating every continent and environment? Will there remain in existence a "god" that looks down upon the earth and sheds tears?
  
  Or did the existence of that "god" depend upon the mind of those extinct humans?
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Eaglekiwiposted 12 years ago
Truth is mankind in general isnt interested in the 10 Commandments period.

They were not written for God but for man.

But hey even if you dont believe in God then surely ones own set of moral standards would hold up.

Sadly even those walls have broken down.

It has always been and still is the state and condition of ones heart that ,kills ,mames or destroys, and it will not stop until the heart changes. Laws serve to help control mankinds impulses and actions. but laws by themselve will never solve the real issue.

History speaks for itself.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's hilarious when believers tell us history speaks for itself when they are the ones who totally ignore what happened throughout history.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. Well, at least now we understand that you don't need to back up what you say, just saying it must be good enough.
  
  Later...
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Or did the existence of that "god" depend upon the mind of those extinct humans?

Similar to the question about the tree falling making no noise when no one is there to hear it.
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  Deepes Mindposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which leads to the trap of what's the point of existing if there is nothing left that can worship you.. You walked right into that trap
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  but then again ...... what would make us think that "we" are all that is for "It" to exist.
  We are the center of our universe!! And that applies to everything that enters OUR universe as far as our perseption goes. But how far does our perseption go? And then there is your perseption that I and everyone else has to contend with????
  reply report

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Mike Huckabee says removing God from schools is to blame for shooting

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