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Witnessing

  1. profile image0
    mdawson17posted 8 years ago

    Through my 37 years of life I have seen that trying to witness to non believers has become a very difficult job I am wondering what skills my fellow hubbers have during the time of giving witnes to glory of Jesus Christ!!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Not going too well so far. On the whole, the non believers tend to be sick and tired of listening to it. Mostly they think it is funny, hypocritical and annoying. Hope that helps. Good luck with your witnessing.  big_smile

      1. My Inner Jew profile image67
        My Inner Jewposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well, I agree they would think it is hypocritical if you lead your life opposite of what you say.  I will say over and over again the greatest witnessing tool is just leading your life the way God tells you and then everything else will follow...that was (more than you think) Jesus' ministry, leading his life and then people asked questions...he didn't shame them by pointing out their sins or try to bribe them with heaven and threaten them with hell...he truly loved them and cared for them

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Couldn't agree more.

        2. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly!

          1. profile image0
            elliot.dunnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            As a Christian, I feel the need to interject here.  The problem with this whole perception on witnessing is that it fails to portray Christ as He is seen in the Scriptures.  This applies to believers and non-believers alike. 

            Non-believers misunderstand Jesus to be a peace-loving teacher who, like Confucius, upheld a moral standard of living simply because it was a good idea.  They disagree with the biblical claim that Jesus is the Son of God, and that His mission on earth was to be the Savior of mankind.  In doing this, non-believers misunderstand how seriously Jesus took sin. They neglect passages such as Christ's dealing with the Samaritan woman (John 4) and His overturning of the tables (John 2). If Jesus didn't take sin seriously, He certainly would not have died for the sins of those He loved (Eph 5:2).  He would have just walked away.

            Because of these misconceptions, non-believers respond negatively to witnessing.  They think that Christians aren't following their Lord who really doesn't mind that people are sinning.  Since Jesus is there to forgive and not condemn, non-believers react adversely to the  biblical message of separation from God through sin.  They can't be open to the biblical Jesus because they're so focused on their own version of Jesus.

            As for believers, they often make the same mistakes.  Reacting adversely to failed evangelical attempts, they soften their message, saying that sin really isn't that big of a deal.  These Christians preach a false gospel, one that Paul often warns of in his letters (2 Tim 3).  This is where we have failed my Christian brothers and sisters.  We have dropped the ball, forgetting that Jesus came out of love - a love that would not allow people to continue unrepentant in their sins.  Too often our evangelism is about winning an argument or showing non-believers that they are wrong instead of pointing to the mercy and grace of our Lord by which we ourselves have been saved (Eph. 2:8-10).  Perhaps the best form of witnessing is to present the truth in love and to lead by example as said in previous comments.  Yet none of this is worth anything if we do not understand who Jesus is: the Son of God come to take away the sins of the world.  He stands ready to forgive those who will repent of their sins and believe in Him.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Nah - I will stick with funny, hypocritical, and annoying. In that order. I don't care what your imaginary friend is supposed to have said. Nor am I interested in repenting your imaginary sins. Sorry.

              You do know jesus was stolen from pagan religions - right? wink

            2. Ron Montgomery profile image59
              Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No,they don't misunderstand,they simply do not believe. This condescending tripe that so many Christians try to sell is insulting to your target audience.  Try MLM or some other non-offensive technique.  Your current scheme is backfiring.

      2. Jamie Gates profile image60
        Jamie Gatesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ahhhh Mark...good reply. I'm afraid of people who have lost the ability to have an open mind and live with tunnel vision. All fine and good but don't try to convince me.

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
          IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this


          I can't even begin to imagine how it must make non believers feel.  I can't even begin to imagine how it makes any body, besides a Christian feel.  I mean, as a Christian I have more tolerance.  But when a Christian is forced to the point of anger, something is wrong.  And they wonder why nobody goes to church anymore.

          1. Sufidreamer profile image83
            Sufidreamerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Must admit, it is something that is alien to us over here - in Greece, it is seen as very impolite to inquire about someone's religion, let alone try to 'convert' them.

            Must be a cultural difference smile

            1. profile image0
              Leta Sposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Uh, no, Sufi...  I mean, you are partially correct.  But the mainline Christians (or people of any other religions I know of) do not make it a habit of evangelizing in public spaces.  It would be considered bad taste.

              That being said, America(as the country attracted so many groups seeking religious freedoms--isn't that ironic) does have a cultural extremist contingency.

            2. LondonGirl profile image86
              LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Similar in the UK, don't you think?

            3. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Only someone ignorant will try and convert someone and only someone who is ignorant will convert. smile

    2. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Witnessing?  You mean preaching!  Jesus told his followers to tell of his words and miracles................nothing more!  He also said that the law is in the minds and hearts of men--all men and he was not the one to descriminate and separate non believers and believers.  The truth lies in the hearts and again he didn't descriminate.  Which version of the Bible do you use?  Do you know there were thng in the first version and then changed in the 6th, 8th and 15th centuries that you most likely do not know about?  Are they miracles or wehre they just seen that way back in those days?  Most of the miracles in that Bible are not that way today.  Check out other books and views other than the Bible--and YES you can do that!  Check history and other things of that sort before making assumptions of non believers and believers.
      Good Luck on that!

    3. aka-dj profile image77
      aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The "job" is no more difficult than before. The opposition to it has increased. You can see that just by reading some of the comments below (your OP).Thre are many who adamently declare they hate having it "forced" upon them. In saying that, they in turn "force" their resistance on the believer.
      They want politeness etc, but don't dieplay much of it.
      "Witnessing" is nothing more than sharing ones experiencesand beliefs. (I think that's called "freedom of speech", ye? If that is forcing, then we may as well stop talking. If I tell you I loved a particular movie, and another hated it, is that grounds for "division"? No, but of course that is a much less emotive subject, Huh?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Yes - it is a lot more difficult than before. No more burning at the stake and everyone has a little education now - which must make the "job" a tad more difficult - sorry aka-dj. Oh well. Not that you are disrespecting anyone or anything........

        1. aka-dj profile image77
          aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          No it's not. It is actually easier than ever. The acceptance of it may have diminished because of "education", but that's not my problem.It's the hearers. I'm happy to tell you I believe in Jesus, and why, and since when etc. SEE EASY!
          You may (and i guess you do) resist that, but it does not make it hard for me.
          Disrespectful? Me? I doubt it. Please adjust your glasses as you read. big_smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            lol

            What is it dj?

            1. aka-dj profile image77
              aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              The movie? I don't know. I loved a lot of them. It could take a while till we got through the list to narrow it down to a love/hate relationship. lol

    4. darkside profile image82
      darksideposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Here's a tip: live an exemplary life, though at the same time: be yourself.

      If anyone comes up to you and says "hey, you're different. There's something about you. I want what you have." then by all means share. This is permission based marketing.

      On the other hand you go out of your way to 'witness', ie: annoy people with an offer they didn't ask for, then this can be considered 'spamming'.

      1. aka-dj profile image77
        aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Nicely put.smile
        Not sure how this "principle" works on HP though. Not many people ask. We have to start the conversation somehow. Maybe we ARE all spammers in that respect. sad

      2. LondonGirl profile image86
        LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        That's my mother's version. Works a treat.

    5. Ron Montgomery profile image59
      Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You could try setting up a multi-level marketing system (like Amway).  Don't try to save every heathen yourself; try to recruit other witnesses to do the job and you get credit for 1/2 of each soul saved!!

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image79
        Eaglekiwiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Dont the JW's already do that ?

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
          Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Those bastards!! They stole my idea.

    6. Rochelle Frank profile image95
      Rochelle Frankposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think the best witness is living your life well, being honest, being grateful for your joys, treating people as you would wish to be treated without mentioning Jesus at all.. unless someone asks you.

      Otherwise I would go with MLM or maybe even FSM.

      Non- believers just don't believe and they get ticked off when you tell them they should. Gve them an example they can question.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
        Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Oh no; here comes Mark.

    7. spiderpam profile image72
      spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

      Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

      Luke 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

      Luke 8:4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:

      Luke 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

      Luke 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

      Luke 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

      Luke 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

      Luke 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

      Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

      Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

      Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

      Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

      Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

      Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

      Luke 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

      Sadly, in the last days we will see more rocky soil in this world, there will be scoffers and those who mock Christians and our beliefs. Those who know the truth, but think they know best, or those know the truth, but would much rather continue to rebel against thier creator and think they just God forgive on their deathbed. But we can't stop, because there are many of people who need God, but are simply afraid, lost or just confused. "The harvest is plenty but the workers are few" I hope this helps you. God Bless

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        And the fine example is right here!!!

        I do know about the Bible and I take it to myself and have read it back and forwards.  I interpret it in my own words and can think for myself.  You can't seem to do that.  Ever asked yourself why?
        There have been many traslations to that Book and with each one the words are further from the true orginal documents or scrpts.......go search for the original and find out who God is and Where he came ffrom.  Find out all you can about the people that were in the Biblical days and pre-biblical.  History is not all in tht ONE book which is not the truest version, I can assure you that!
        Please stop using the Bible as something it was never meant to be.

        1. spiderpam profile image72
          spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Thx once again for proving my point LG. How are you today?

      2. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        So - just as a matter of interest - seeing as many people have told you that what you are doing is offensive and a better way would be to behave in a fashion that attracted people - do you still feel the need to carry on trying to convert people?

        In your own words please. I don't appreciate great swathes of doubtful scripture being pasted.

        1. profile image0
          mdawson17posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This is so true we cannot be harsh and overpowering in our witness! I belieave that we should be the ones to first plant the seed then God will nurish it! Bible Thumping only makes others angry (and can also cause a deturent from converting)!!!

        2. spiderpam profile image72
          spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Only non-belivers and the unrepentant sinner find the word of God offensive, it's like death to them, because it directly contradicts them and threatens their way of life.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I guess that answers my question. Thank you for reminding me why I will never subscribe to your religion.

          2. Lady Guinevere profile image61
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            YOU are wrong!!!  Go find out why!

            1. spiderpam profile image72
              spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              LG, Mark, and Misha are just rocky soil, you guys have made your choice in life, why do you have to deny that choice to everyone else, whenever anyone says anything good about God or Jesus Christ there you guys are with insults, riducule, and mockery. Is it that you fear we might be right so you have block our truth from everyone else, so you feel more comfortable with your own choices? No true Christian will force anything on anyone we simply give our POV and allow people to make their own choices, but you can't seem to do that. You use the word religion to distort what God and Jesus Christ is really all about. That is wrong and you already know why.
              PS you want to talk about blind, how about seeing a painting and deny there ever was an artist.

              1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
                Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Yep the first is that we are angry then try to reconvert us and then the name calling.  Lady Jeus NEVER said to call people names and he didn't say shove his words down other's throats.  I am simply getting you to research what you speak.  Now if that is wrong then it is your choice---just as it is ours who have done the research.
                I don't appreciate this treatment at all.
                D UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO TO YOU.
                Karma--it is in that Bible--look real hard---WHAT YE SHALL SOW, YE SHALL REAP. 
                Thre is a whole lot more good stuff in that Bible then calling people sinners.  Oh another verse comes to mind---GET THE LOG OUR OF YOU OWN EYE BEFORE YOU TAKE IT OUT OF SOMEONE ELSES.  Oh I can go on and on and on.................I belive in Jesus --or havent you gotten that far in your reading to know me better.  I beleive the one that is nice and was a Nazarene who never said anyting mean to another and no one was better than anyone else.,  View my hub:  http://hubpages.com/hub/Peters-Foundati … -Obsession

                1. profile image0
                  ilovemusicalsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Winner: SPIDERPAM

                  1. Misha profile image77
                    Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    And who's judging? lol

              2. Misha profile image77
                Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Count me out please. It's Mark's and LG's battle, I am just watching it from the  side, time to time giving short remarks smile

                1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
                  Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Chicken?!!! LOL

    8. Make  Money profile image81
      Make Moneyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      With new religions that have cropped up lately that are directly opposed to God like New Age, Wicca, satan worship and just last night I was watching a show on chaos magik (scary crap) it's no wonder it has become a more difficult job.

      I don't agree with a lot of what the Jehovah Witness believe but I have to give them credit for their attempt.  A few years ago I had a JW come to my place once a week to study the Bible, we became good friends.  If you are a JW mdawson17 I'd watch yourself in some neighborhoods.  Although I think they travel in pairs.

      As far as talking about God in these forums nobody is going to stop us.  We are not knocking on anyone's door in here.  Non-believers can choose to read our posts or not.  Some non-believers might not like it but others might get interested.  We can talk about God, the scriptures or prayers all we want.  That's what this forum is for.  I look forward to your input mdawson17.

      Mike

      1. fierycj profile image77
        fierycjposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Nicely said, Mike.

      2. spiderpam profile image72
        spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Amen.

      3. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        That is crap and mis information and religion is a good promoter of such things!

    9. AEvans profile image78
      AEvansposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You have just begun. smile Regardless of the outcome you are speaking the word.smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Absolutely - keep on shoving it down other people's throats - really - it doesn't matter that they do not want to hear it. Go for it. Push harder. This is the word after all. lol

        1. AEvans profile image78
          AEvansposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          You are naughty..big_smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            No - just honest. big_smile

    10. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I remember years back I was hanging out with a friend in his shop when some Christian preachers came along and gave us some books.
      They were waiting for the return of Christ who would save their souls to which I replied why wait for him ? , why should the poor guy take your sins again? You keep committing sins and he should pay for them, why?
      Why don't you meditate instead of waiting for him to do all your work.
      They got angry and took the books back from me  lol  lol 
      lol

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        LOL LOLO LOL LOL LOL

        They want to do all their sins and wait for someone to save them from their own sins!  Is there a severe lack of self-responsibility with this concept!!!

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Well Jesus certainly didn't die for our perfections now did he? big_smile

          Maybe the point of being Christian is realizing that we are not perfect, we cannot are not do not but try to do the right thing.

          I think it is really funny that Christians are far more detested than any other religion and the irony is that it is because we are a bunch of "sinner". 

          Anyone who is actually righteous does have the right to hate a christian for our "sin" yet an actual righteous person wouldn't do such a thing because that person would obviously understand the nature of a "christian" and understand the relevance of who Christ is to a Christian.

          So what offense could a person take to being hated for being a christian knowing that we are "sinners" and the irony that Jesus to some seems like the Devil because Jesus loves us "f" up's (lol I mean that in the best possible way) for wanting to be like him because. 

          So it is really no surprise to me that when Jesus said, pick up your cross and follow me but know you will be hated... it makes me laugh not because it is actually funny that people can hate someone for a belief, but because he didn't come to save what is already perfect. big_smile

          1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Sandra, he already came back and no one recognized him.  He also said that The Kingdom of God is within you and not outside of you.  You can only save yourself and no one else.  When God made us we were like him in every way.  The sin that we did, we did not do on our own.  He did trick us you know and how is that better than anyone that we are----none!

        2. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          The prophets are here to help and guide but man needs to do his bit.One needs to meditate for himself and find the light Jesus and all saints talk about. smile

  2. Shirley Anderson profile image78
    Shirley Andersonposted 8 years ago

    I don't like to make comments in these threads normally, but the phrase, "Don't nail shoes on the natives" comes to mind.

    I think we should respect each other's beliefs.  I do not believe though, that one person should try to force their beliefs on others.  I'm sure that other people would not appreciate me doing it to them and I expect the same courtesy.  If someone asks you, that's okay but otherwise, please don't nail shoes on the natives. smile

    1. profile image0
      mdawson17posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you so very much!! I am a devout Christian and strong in my belief but I feel that if we "Bible Thump" then we will run others away from God!

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        That is exactly what you are doing!!

    2. mythbuster profile image83
      mythbusterposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I've never heard this quote before but I really like it! Mind if I put it into heavy circulation? I'll say Shirley told me this one!

  3. Shirley Anderson profile image78
    Shirley Andersonposted 8 years ago

    By the way, I was responding to the OP's original ponderance about witnessing, not what Mark or Lady G said.

    1. fierycj profile image77
      fierycjposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What're you doing, playing safe?

  4. profile image0
    MangoGirlposted 8 years ago

    If I ask a religious question here, could the ladies and gentlemen answer it? I'd like to know what the Scripture says about this:

    Why do we want to live in a perfect world?

    1. profile image42
      badcompany99posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Because its what the fools lead us to believe my Mango, tis an illusion as you well know, doncha think ?

    2. aka-dj profile image77
      aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The scripture states that man was created into a "prefect world". (Note the garden of Eden). However, sin has caused man's(and consequently our)expulsion from it. That (original) world was destroyed, (by the flood), and we have what we now have.
      For this reason, it is inbuilt into our makeup, to seek after the "perfect" world(utopia etc.) That world (of perfection) does exist, and is called "Heaven". day, that Heaven, and mankind will be re-established.Much more could be said, but I hope I answered your Q. big_smile:

      1. profile image0
        MangoGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        If most of our pleasure comes from making thing better and making people happy, what will be the point in a perfect world? What will we do there?

    3. profile image0
      mdawson17posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I have always belieave when it is said that we a of an imperfect creation! So as the world is trying to make themselves to be perfect they seem to be blinded that the world is of a sinful nature and no matter how we try we are going to mess up!

      We are tring to live in a perfect world because no one wants to admit their mistakes fearing that it would make them be less than!

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        No, they seem to want to blame it all on God or Satan.  Nice cop out don't ya think?!

      2. profile image0
        MangoGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The easiest way to go is to give up.

        What you've just said is the equivalent of saying 'I admit my sins, I admit I can't do anything about them, I'm not even trying, but now if you excuse me I'm out killing people, 'CAUSE IT'S FUN!!!!!'

  5. cindyvine profile image86
    cindyvineposted 8 years ago

    The scriptures say nothing about us living in a perfect world and actually spend a lot of time explaining and describing how unperfect it is.

  6. Eaglekiwi profile image79
    Eaglekiwiposted 8 years ago

    Yea what Cindy said.
    Walk the talk ,no matter who your God is I think.

  7. Eaglekiwi profile image79
    Eaglekiwiposted 8 years ago

    CINDYVINE


    Happy Birthday Happy Birthday Happy Birthday To you !!!!

  8. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    That is the problem dj---all those who do believe have to separate themselves from each other and those who don't simply don't.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And that is often why arguments start.

  9. Rochelle Frank profile image95
    Rochelle Frankposted 8 years ago

    Non- believers just don't believe and they get ticked off when you tell them they should. Give them a good example they can question.

  10. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Many non believers get well ticked off when it is sanctimoniously stated that we don't understand the argument. many have seen the same information and have arrived at different conclusions

  11. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    Many once believers that are now non believers get ticked when they write their own experiences and what new knowledge they have on belivers hubs and get told they don't want anything but what is written in the Bible and that they are made to feel that they are worthless.  I don't think non believers go and do those things to others.  The thing is that they refuse to understand--they treated Jesus in the same way as they are treating unbelievers!  Go figure!!

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      That's not true.  That is perspective. Coming from the side of believing but being annoyed with people coming to my door asking if I know God or what I do etc... yeah that bugged me but I get where they are coming from and know that they aren't doing it to piss you off... well most anyways.

      I have heard stories of Mormons telling my bf he was going to hell because he didn't have time to talk to them while he was working. 

      I have had to ask a JW that I adore to leave because I personally didn't want to upset her with my personal views not because she made me feel bad about what I believe.

      On the hp forum religion section, no one actually "pushes" it on anyone because you come on your own accord. You don't have to but you do anyways as though you were forced.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I wasn't referrring to the forums at all and I wasn't referring to JW's either although a couple did come to our door on Saturday.  They kept asking us did we know who God was and if he was mentioned in the Bible?  I found it a bit condecending when I told them yes I know about God and he is in the Bible and they persued to open their Bibles and give us a lesson and my husband told them we weren't interested.  He is Roman Catholic!  I think it was like 3 times before they got the message....those and what I get in my comment boxes on my hubs are what I am referring too.

  12. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    Amongst other things about witnesses.  Though I had said they did annoy me etc... I am actually grateful that they kept coming around every now and again.

    Really I didn't know what I was missing until the right one came along. It may be part of their servant duties to go door to door and talk to you about God and Jesus knowing that they will get the door slammed in their face more often than not but I am certainly grateful that I did get an unexpected intervention.

    And even though I still get annoyed when I am in the middle of something and they come knocking... it is worth it to help even just one person.  It might not be any of you here per say but there are people out there who are too afraid to go out and get help so help comes to the door.

    I for one, I think it is great. big_smile

    1. fierycj profile image77
      fierycjposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm with you there, Sandra. It takes a lot of guts to do witnessing. You never know what God-hating psychos you might be meeting behind the doors...

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
        Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Another good reason to "witness" via the web.  Leave the poor psychos alone, your life may depend on it.

      2. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
        1. profile image0
          \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          How right you are and I should know

          1. countrywomen profile image60
            countrywomenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Although I understand one can meet anyone behind the door. And it can also be the other way round too when it could be anyone at the door who is visiting(I have had those uninvited visitors too).

            And also terming people who don't believe in "God" in the first place as "psychos" is also a very strong term of reference and should be reserved for the few. In fact in my brief experience on this planet I have read more about God "loving" people who think they are doing the religion or God a favor by fighting "His" battle or blowing themselves up to be the bigger threat to humanity.

    2. darkside profile image82
      darksideposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      This thought process intrigues me.

      I know there was other bits in between, but I'm still wrapping my head around this before I start thinking about many people being disadvantaged or annoyed for the sake of (a potential) one.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well, you are missing the point darkside. Basically - it doesn't matter how many people are annoyed, put off or disadvantaged as long as you are out there gathering converts.

        There is no need to respect other people's wishes or beliefs (non beliefs in my case) -  it is far more important for them to be spreading the word. Fortunately, it is no longer spread with a sword or a gun, but you can see how some of them wish for the good old days. wink

      2. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The "disadvantage" or annoyance is just that. You don't have to answer the door, you don't have to slam the door in their face, you don't have to invite them in.  If you don't need anything, then the only inconvenience there really was is that you heard someone knocking at the door and had to go check and see who it is. 

        I think the real disadvantage is with regards to those people who really need help but don't know how to go about it.  You know, just because a JW or someone comes to your door doesn't mean that they are only going to help you find God. 

        If you need financial help, or need to see a doctor or just need something they will help you.  Yes, they would want you to know that it was by the love of God that they offer those things and that is not a forceful intervention. 

        I never had a JW or Mormon or anyone come to my door telling me I need to convert, they just want you listen.  You don't have to agree, you don't even have to answer the door but you certainly don't have to be mean because you never know.

        The neighbor you have next door might be in some trouble looking for help but if witnessing is banned and criminalized or something, then what is lost in another life that could have been saved.

        How ironic it is that being saved by God doesn't necessarily mean that they saved their soul but in the very physical world because people are inspired by God, they have the potential to save a life.

        Here is my balancing scale.  Life vs. having to get up and answer the door. LOL.

        Now there are non believers out there that are full of love and always willing to help and maybe one day those people will go door to door just asking people if they need help. However something tells me that they would get the door slammed in their faces because it is just intrusive of a person to knock at your door.  Of course they would blame it on religion for not having the opportunity to help someone who could have needed help but after a while I think that even they would understand and know that it was never about the religion.

        It's about offering help to whoever is in need.  If you don't need help, then you don't.  You just say, "no thanks" and they go on their way and you go back inside bitching about how someone just came to the door offering love and help.

        1. LondonGirl profile image86
          LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          When Isaac was a newborn baby, one of these nutty American groups (not sure which one) rang the doorbell at 7am on a Saturday, just after he (and I) had gone to sleep after he'd been awake for a while.

          That is just about the worst way I can think to persuade anyone of anything.....

          1. profile image0
            \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Seven a,m. did you ring the police and report them.  I think I would have done.....

            1. LondonGirl profile image86
              LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I was tempted, but sadly, it's not illegal. Just rude (-:

          2. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah and they totally did it on purpose because they just knew that that you and Isaac had just fallen asleep so they wanted to disrupt you just to upset you.

            1. Misha profile image77
              Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Umm, how often do you knock to stranger's door at 7 am? Come on Sandy, you know it is rude, and they know it is rude.

              1. profile image0
                sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Yes and I also doubt they did that at 7 am too.

            2. LondonGirl profile image86
              LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Maybe I'm just a lazy so-and-so, but I don't think I'm ever pleased to see anyone at 7am on a Sat. morning!

    3. profile image0
      mdawson17posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it can be one of the best things to happen for a person that is lost as well as hurting! I belieave that witnessing should be done with love and compassion and not in a harse and demanding deminor! Christ is Love so we should be in the image of Christ we are ambasdor's of Christ so therefore we should show Love as he would!

  13. Eaglekiwi profile image79
    Eaglekiwiposted 8 years ago

    No more hunger ,lying ,cheating ,stealing ,murder,wars ,death,disease.
    Hey gimme a programme with Hope anytime wink

  14. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    LOL Mark, she honestly does not get it! Amazing lol

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      As long as she is in the cult of religion they will never get it.  They are blinded by man and power trips and guilt trips and held that way for some man's power and not that of any God nor of Jesus!

  15. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    I don't know what happened to the link:  http://hubpages.com/hub/Peters-Foundati … -Obsession

  16. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Whatever you call it smile One can't fight all the battles around, so I have to prioritize tongue

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      big_smile

  17. profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    Well it seems to me that many have the wrong idea abotu what being a witness is. Witnessing is not preaching, it is not teaching, it is not quoting scripture. A witness is someone who saw what happened. It is someone who experieced firsthand the miracle of the Love of God. To tell what God is for you is witnessing, but to show it is even more so.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah but someone brought up, Evangelical witnessing. So that is how the tread is playing out.

  18. profile image49
    prince1244posted 8 years ago

    Non-believers, who's to tell who's and right who's wrong. People have free will to believe whatever.

  19. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I don't have any reason to suspect Amanda is lying, and this is not the first account of their early visits I seen smile

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And so they can put a sign on the door that says "God not welcome"  or "no soliciting" or "Don't knock before 7am", no problem!

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        What the heck is wrong with you???

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          What do you mean?  You don't think a sign that says that a person doesn't want anyone to come to their door about God is a good idea?  LOL

          It would save all the trouble of having to get up and answer the door for someone that they really don't care to hear about right?

          smile

          1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            LOL LOL LOL  I have answered doors about that time in the day and haven dirty looks to them!  I don't have a child like London Girl, but I do get insomnia alot and have just fallen back to sleep that early---so dirty looks they get.  If I had my druthers I would have dne other things to them or said something nasty but being tired I just want them to go away!  Oh and those Telemarketers that call that early ususally get an earfull they never imagined!!!

      2. LondonGirl profile image86
        LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        No-one else has ever rung our doorbell at 7am without a good reason!

    2. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I can't say it doesn't happen but I have never had it happen to me, they can't even start mass before 10:30 LOL! big_smile

  20. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Never happened to me either, yet I won't be happy if it does. Actually I can be really nasty if woken up before time LOL

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      me too!

  21. Eaglekiwi profile image79
    Eaglekiwiposted 8 years ago

    Its irritating when someone doesnt take 'No Thanks' as a reasonable response.
    I think its rude to disrespect anyones privacy which if its too early ,too late ,or follow-ups is!

  22. Onusonus profile image81
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    At work people often approach me with comments about my religion or their religious points of view usually with a certain degree of respect. It is interesting to see the nonbelievers become intolerant of my discussions which are deamed as "Inappropriate in the workplace," despite the conversations they have amongst themselves boasting of their infidelity and opinions which rage against humanity and all inklings of moral fiber.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hey hun, an eye opener for ya!  Religious peoples don't always keep their noses clean and you may be on of the few who does.

      1. Onusonus profile image81
        Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        You dont realy know too much about me, I'm an all American nice guy!

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          And I didn't say you weren't.

  23. Vladimir Uhri profile image62
    Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago

    I really do not like negative people, even tough I am sometime negative myself. Shame of me. But... when JW comes Saturday to my house I open door and welcome them with the :-) face. My wife Carol use to say I am sorry for them, since he is preaching to them hours. I enjoy to discuss the Bible. That's my life, my light and love.  - Any translation of Bible should not be put down. All the time they are better, since Bible was translated by people with book knowledge, not active living language. There are many synonyms in the Bible words. Then we have new revelation and I am grateful for it. I am trying read in original. LG should learn original languages. When Lord will return there will be international Hebrew language. The King will be sitting on the throne of David. - In witnessing great ingredient is love and friendship. I know that sin will kill you, but God see as already through the window of His Son. He already forgave us sin of unbelief.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well that won't be in our lifetimes and I am including those who are being born in the next 50 years!

      If you look at Sin rationally and observe things.  Sin and death are more of how you treat your body.  If you eat the wrong foods you will get sick and the body will suffer for it.  That includes cancer!  When you give your body to anyone else--including Physician's and then you blame it on Satan or pray to some outside force you are not taking care of that body that was given to you.  For some reason religion teaches us that we are not to know our bodies and their functions on all levels.  They teach us that it is devilish or Satanic.  Why and when did that happen--the Garden of Eden???----or when they decided what will go into the books of the Bible or not and what was taken out in the 6th, 8th and 15th centuries.
      Again a few are not hearing my words---they mistranslated the world ERA with WORLD.  It is going to be the end of an ERA not the WORLD.

    2. LondonGirl profile image86
      LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Of the three people who live in this flat, two are native Hebrew speakers. The third (me) is a beginner.

      1. Misha profile image77
        Mishaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        LOL Amanda, Vladimir meant another LG, Lady Guinevere tongue

        This is not to say that I have any opinion on learning Hebrew smile

        1. LondonGirl profile image86
          LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          My opinion is that it's a pretty tricky language to learn!

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Nah - it is easy. Vladimir here learned it in 5 minutes flat - and now has the unadulterated word of god into his head any time he wants it. lol

            1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Oh and didn't he say that he used the Bible and *other* books from other major religions to go by but I can't use the ones that I go by because all his are ture and mine--well mine must have been dug up from dog poo or something......
              How many Major Religions are there and how many books are there?  Many, many and more and more.

  24. Vladimir Uhri profile image62
    Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago

    It is getting more interesting. Ms LG you like to talk and never listen. I told you, you should learn Hebrew and Greek and read in originals. I apology if you feel being criticized. New Ager's always put down others religion to promote theirs.
    They also accepted Jesus or YHWH as a their gods to add to their millions gods.they confuse Christians. Pardon me I am not religious. I am the believer. As I know and understand Bible there is all what I need for functional victorious life. Why I should look for extra Biblical sources? I do not need it. I read all major religious books available and it is enough.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Don't you just hate it when you tell everyone something and then they come right back at you and tell you that you don't do it but they told you to.

      If you don't want to read other sources, that is your problem and not mine.

      What exactly are you tryng to point out here?

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        He is trying to point out that you have confused every other source with the Bible and making what is not part of the Bible, biblical references that you are confusing what is in the Bible with what is not in the Bible and claiming that everything you know came from the Bible when clearly it did not.

        He might also being trying to point out that for someone who says I believe in Jesus, you are certainly doing everything you can to criticize anyone who thinks differently then you as if you are so much more studied then the rest when you really haven't read the OT in Hebrew or the NT in Greek.

        That you are also taking the teachings of Jesus and scrambling the message to make all who believe in Him (except for you) fools because you really think you know more.

        You haven't much respect for people who want to do what is right and good but give a lot of credit and follow along in the same path as the ones who go out of their way also to criticize people who believe in Jesus or God or the Bible.

        What ever it is you are doing is your thing but Mike is right we can talk all we want about God and Jesus and the Bible and there isn't anything you or anyone can do to stop it.

        If you don't like it, then don't listen.  This seems to be what you want to do anyways because you believe that we are a bunch of knuckle heads who really don't know anything yet what we do know is that if you really love Jesus like you say you do then why do you go out of your way to "ridicule" like the others do?

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          and how do you know I haven't read anything in hebrew or greek.  I do have a friend that has those versions and has given me referrences.  I am not confusing any other source with the Bible.  The Bible is not complete--simple as that.  I don't consider myself as a New Ager either.  When all God's were made into the ONE God in the early history of the Church, the Angels and Saint's were then added as a replacment for the *Other* Gods that they worshiped before.  There were many Angels named in the Original Bible and then the 6th Century some were taken out and then again in the 8th century.  You won't find that in the Bible, because the scholars didn't want you to know that and they teach you that if you go to any other book that you are dealing with Satan.........what a great way to get others to believe by fear.
          When the first church was made (not Peter's Chruch that Christ chose) the clergy did not face the congregation.  Every ask why?  Where is that written in the Bible?  What did Christ say about any clergy--in the Bible?
          Now, do I listen, Yes I listen, but I also will find things to back up the claim and it isn't always the Bible--because it says that everything is not in there and to go and prove it.  Now I know that those who believe the Bible in it's crippleness will tell you that you are only supposed to look in the Bible for answers---where does it say that and which version does it say it in.  The answers are WITHIN You and not in a book.  Christ leads you to the answers that you seek and they are not always in a book.  Angels Unawares.  Didn't Jesus say that he disguised himself to see how a family would react to a stranger...... do you know that story?

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Oh yest the story of Jesus...

            He came knocking on peoples doors before he was known as Jesus that we formally know him as and the people that said they love God did not allow him to enter.  They did not offer him a meal or invite him into their homes. 

            But there was a group of people that did regardless of who he was, they didn't know he was God but allowed him to enter because they are good loving people. 

            So, you never know when God will be knocking at your door but it is more then likely that you would turn deny God and not even know it because Jesus asked to love our neighbors.

  25. countrywomen profile image60
    countrywomenposted 8 years ago

    Tolerance of other beliefs is a virtue that only some people possess. Earlier here when I said about my grandfather being a pure soul who lived his life with one simple vegetarian meal and spending his time in meditations and prayers there were some "christian" folks here in Obama anti christ hub who said that even he would be in hell and his soul would be eaten by "worms". Even myself have been ridiculed in some threads for having beliefs in Karma/reincarnation and was told that those who believe in such things are surely devil/satan(idol)worshipers but only LG came in my support at that time. Then there are some folks who preach that all those who don't believe in anyone but Christ are "thieves/robbers". Even some "Christians" need to be open minded and respectful of other views/beliefs. Sometimes I feel we have all the religions in the world to divide each other but not enough to love each other. Just my two cents. smile

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thank You CW.  They don't see it that way though and I am wondering just who put that thought into their minds to begin with.  Before the written word and in Jewish traditions.

      1. countrywomen profile image60
        countrywomenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        You are welcome. Btw by my earlier mention of LG I meant Lady G as I just realized there is another wonderful hubber too i.e., London Girl also with the same initials LG. smile

  26. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago
  27. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I thought at least NT was not written in Hebrew, Aramaic perhaps smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Does it really matter?

    2. LondonGirl profile image86
      LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Greek. Old Testament (Torah) is in Hebrew.

      Two more alphabets, as well!

  28. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    IDK smile

    To me - no, but those who want to read originals are up to learning those two and perhaps Coptic and Greek... smile

    I frankly am having enough difficulties with just English smile

  29. Raven King profile image60
    Raven Kingposted 8 years ago

    Say your english is excellent and people probably think you're from Texas. smile

  30. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Thanks Raven, but it is still not without difficulties. So I can hardly see myself learning four more languages, especially ancient ones...

  31. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    Ah well - if you want the word of god directly into your head - you need to pretend that you can understand an ancient language that has not been spoken in 1,500 years. Easy really. wink

  32. Misha profile image77
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Prolly  - for some smile I don't pretend smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Me either - I can speak a little ancient Latin from my school days but I don't pretend that makes me an expert. I am having enough trouble speaking French, German and Dutch on a daily basis. lol

      1. Alexander Mark profile image84
        Alexander Markposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        O ja, spreek je Hollands dan? :-)

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ja - Ik heb vor tien yaar in Nederlands gewoned. Kut. smile

          1. Alexander Mark profile image84
            Alexander Markposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Wat luek. Uitkijken joh, mijn Hollands is niet zo goed ook, maar kut bedoeld iets sexuels. Did you do any evangelizing over there, how is it in comparison to American or any other country?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, very sexual. No evangelizing in Holland. Now we have a christian government - nee?

          2. LondonGirl profile image86
            LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Speaking no Dutch, but having acheived a pitiful GCSE German, that looks quite similar to High German to be - you have lived for tein (3? 10?) years in the Netherlands, something like that?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Yes I have for 10 years in Holland lived smile

              1. LondonGirl profile image86
                LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                German helped with the word order too lol

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It is close, but these guys think that you need to learn an archaic language to understand what they are saying. ;(

  33. Alexander Mark profile image84
    Alexander Markposted 8 years ago

    This is a direct response to the question that started this intriguing thread. I think there are many ways to witness, but two very effective ways. One is to be a witness by being like Jesus, (we should do that anyway), and presenting the love of God and being completely opposite to the world. The best way is to kindly excuse yourself when the subject starts revolving around immorality, and reading the Bible out in the open, but never say anything unless asked. The other way is to be a mouth piece, and challenge people about what they think is their eternal fate and go from there. I used to be a mouth piece at work. Then I felt that I was being too pushy and that my walk was not representing my talk so I stopped being a bullhorn so to speak. I used to get a lot of questions and they would listen because I talked about it, but now, no one cares at all. When they do ask something, it is because I talked about it years ago. So for me, I know God wants me to be a mouth piece. I'll have to agree with Mark Knowles, better to make some people angry or unhappy, and get some to see the light, than to be nice and say nothing at all. Even as a mouth piece, it can be done with tact and love.
    Keeping in mind of course what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22, paraphrased in short: "I am become all things to all men, so that some may be saved." Meaning we need to care about each person and their background, and try to adapt.

  34. Wingrider profile image73
    Wingriderposted 8 years ago

    I don't get into religious discussions , ever, but have you ever tried to convince an alcoholic that they needed help.. people get help when they are ready ,, not before and certainly not because you tell them they need it.

    1. Inspirepub profile image81
      Inspirepubposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You are so right - people will recover from a bout of religious fervor in their own time. You can't push them. And some take their mistaken beliefs to the grave.

      There are none so blind as those who will not see.

      Jenny

  35. Vladimir Uhri profile image62
    Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago

    Hey, don't you love that Texan Misha? I love Mark too.
    When I come to Jewish family, I say I am adopted Jew. I love Yews. If I go to Misha's home, to visit, I will say: Tovarisch, tovarisch, kak tebe zvat? :-). When you love people, then it is easy.

    1. Raven King profile image60
      Raven Kingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Kako ti kazes? You do have a great attitude. smile

      1. Vladimir Uhri profile image62
        Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ja kazu charasho. Spasiba, Raven.

  36. AlexiusComnenus profile image59
    AlexiusComnenusposted 8 years ago

    Most Christians today only talk about their faith, not walk it. If the Christians really did stand up and walk their faith this country would not be in the situation it is today. Slaughtering millions of innocent children is not a characteristic of a Christian nation. God blesses the righteous actions of a righteous nation. "The prayers of a humble man availeth much." This nation is not humble. Christians are not active in spreading their faith. They are not active in showing Christ's love. We have blended in with a nation of hypocrites and shallow feelings.

    1. lisafwg01 profile image59
      lisafwg01posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You seem to be operating under the misguided notion that the United States is a "Christian nation"; it's not and never has been:

      From the treaty of Tripoli 1796:

      As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

      1. AlexiusComnenus profile image59
        AlexiusComnenusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        It's quite obvious that there are far too many quotes from the founders and every single President, up to the most current Presidents, that support the notion of our nation, as a people, are predominantly Christian. Certainly the founders recognized that there was no way our nation would have succeeded without the support of an omnipotent and Providential God. The people who say the founders were not Christian choose to overlook the hundreds upon hundreds of direct quotes.

  37. Alexander Mark profile image84
    Alexander Markposted 8 years ago

    Okay, I just read your abortion article, I see where you were coming from. However I must add that your comment seems more about riling people up for the sake of watching people get riled up - like I did. I thought you were talking about Iraq or something obscure.
    Now I will add my two cents to your comment. If we really want to defend the lives of these innocents, civil war is probably the only recourse. We are losing our freedoms one by one to fill the pockets of politicians, and there is nothing to stop it. Taxes go up, but the roads still have potholes. (Sticking with the road issue as an example) - we are double or triple taxed at the fuel pump and at DMV for registration, and there is a sales tax on new and used vehicles, yet the same pothole that did finally get fixed, will reappear next year after a good rain, so the same contractor can come back and do it again. Smells like corruption to me. The worst part is nothing can stop this unless people gather together and present a unified and forceful front.

  38. Alien invasion profile image60
    Alien invasionposted 8 years ago

    It may not be exclusive to Christianity, which is a good thing otherwise it would be discriminate, but it is "one nation under God", "in God we trust", and recognizes creation from a higher entity.
    "We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!" John Adams

    "God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel" Benjamin Franklin 

    "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests"
    John Quincy Adams

    1. lisafwg01 profile image59
      lisafwg01posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Under God" wasn't added to the pledge until 1954, and "in God we trust" didn't become the motto until 1956. Funny how we managed all those years without it.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        You know they added things to the things above and people just know it is truth from the very beginning.....but the kicker is--they did the exact same thing to the Bible and they are still doing it!  Go figure!

      2. Make  Money profile image81
        Make Moneyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        But "in God we trust" has been on U.S. coins since 1864.  It was added then because of the destruction of the Civil War.  I believe Lincoln had them minted without the help of the money changers cause their money came with too high of an interest rate.

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Two_cent_obverse.jpg

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          http://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/images/blogs/W-H-Harrison-Obverse.jpg

          In God We Trust was on coins a lot earlier than 1864.  The placement of "In God We Trust" wasn't visible enough for people so they made it more obvious in 1864 or possibly earlier than that.

          http://psychohistory.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/coin1_wideweb__470x2850.jpg

    2. Make  Money profile image81
      Make Moneyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Ai, I didn't have to go look it up.

  39. Make  Money profile image81
    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago

    Oh yeah, 1841.  It would be cool to see how early they did have "in God we trust" on the coins.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I remembered I used to have a coin that had "In God We Trust" inscribed on the side of the coin.

  40. Alien invasion profile image60
    Alien invasionposted 8 years ago

    Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasar's/ I am Maximus, are you not entertained?

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      LOL, I wonder who the richest president is then?  Washington perhaps. big_smile

  41. Alien invasion profile image60
    Alien invasionposted 8 years ago

    Wasn't Bush an oil tycoon?

  42. IntimatEvolution profile image71
    IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years ago

    What I would like to know about witnessing is why do so many Christians, feel the need to witness to Christians?  Why aren't they out in the trenches witnessing to people who have never heard the "word" before?  Why are they always hounding the same people, and fellow Christians?  It's a pain in the arse!

    1. AEvans profile image78
      AEvansposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I believe it is because they do not know who is Christian and who is not. There are religions however that want to change you from your own beliefs to there own which to me is an absolute no-no if I wanted to be a part of theire beliefs I would have chosen it, we all can think for ourselves. smile

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is Within and he didn't descriminate.  For another, We are God's children--every one of us and he didn't descriminate between religion or anything else.  Jesus also put the laws in the minds and hearts of men and he didn't say one group or another in that.
        Who really witnesses to whom if everyone is of God and inherently knows the laws already?  We are supposed to love everyone, no matter what their background, beliefs, likes or dislikes are.  I do believe that the definition of what love is is in the Bible.  Just because we don't agree with a certain entity or groups does not in no way, shape or form make it that we hate it.  If we re God's children and he is all around us, then God is in everything that we do, think, say.  It is our own thoughts that are our prison or our heaven.  Jesus said that too in the book.

      2. IntimatEvolution profile image71
        IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          See, I think they do know who is a Christian most of the time.  I also think it is just a way for Christians to back stab other Christians.  It's sickening.

  43. Onusonus profile image81
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    I believe that using one's personal experiance, and knowledge of and with God helps to uplift and edify those around us. Yes there are a few who tend to laps over from the virtue of boldness to overbearance, however it is always a refining process and even in situations where a negative outcome ensues, it almost always promotes growth. This is the desired outcome, to increase in knowledge and faith.

    1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
      IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And when Christians demand we pray for guidance in a Jury waiting room, after they've went around and tried to pray for each of us silence Christians who had a headache is what?  A pain in the arse.  Christians and their powers to be, need to learn to shut up and when it's been enough.  They need to stop pressing people, throwing their Christian beliefs into other Christians, Muslims, Hindu, whoever else's faces. People don't go to church anymore because they are afraid too.  Now that is sickening.  And why are they afraid too, because over zealous Christians don't seem to care that they are stepping on quieter Christians toes.  I know I'm sick of it.  I know when I have a christian knocking on my door to witness to me, I quickly say,"Does my door mat say 'Welcome'?"  Then I tell them they best be running off my property or else.  I've sick of it.  And if I'm sick of it, a "Christian"- then I think that there is a REAL problem here in American and around the world. I don't care what the good book says about that.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?  Forget to put the sign up on your door that says God not welcome, or is that all people not welcome?

        Have a bad day yesterday that you decided to speak up in a hateful way to address how much you surly hate all christians because what? 

        You could just get out of the religion section of the forum and be a happier person but for some reason you all come back as though you are doing yourselves a favor by writing obnoxious post in a threads dedicated to a believe in God?

        Go as hp admin to make for you a special section for only atheist and I wont bother you there. big_smile

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
          IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          No you just didn't.  Oh you did!  Don't come after me, just to make yourself look special.  Because that is just retarded.  I understand that maybe you didn't like what I had to say to you in another forum thread.  But don't come in here, and start picking a fight with me- just to be ugly.  I am commenting on my own personal feelings.  I will not go to the hp admin to set myself up, with whatever.  Did you even read what I wrote?  I am a Christian.  But again, don't spill your nastiness that you hold against into this forum post just because YOU are mad. I think RK might be onto something, and maybe you should just settle down and take the criticism and make it productive.

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You mean shut up?

            1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
              IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              No-  You know what- nah, never mind.  Peace be with you- sincerely,wink  It is your choice to become better or worse.  I'll not be party to either.  I would appreciate it if you,.........nah, good luck to you.

              1. profile image0
                sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Was that wink sarcasm as in you didn't mean it?

                1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
                  IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  No

      2. Onusonus profile image81
        Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I detect a hint of animosity. Have you tried breathing techniques?

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image71
          IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Lol!  I just had jury duty, and I swear this one lady would not back off.  I finally had to tell, she needed to stay at least 10ft from me at all times, I told I was allergic to her perfume.  I couldn't take it anymore.  And then someone put up this witnessing thread.  And I was like- YES!  I understand the exchanging of information- but hounding people get us nowhere.

        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Well - as you have just been told to stop spreading your version of the TRUTH at your workplace - maybe you should take the hint.

          I guess you do not see how you are generating the animosity - seeing as you are speaking for god. lol

          God ain't too bright, I guess.........

          "Dumb as a post," is the expression that comes to mind. wink

          1. Onusonus profile image81
            Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            like many of the militant Atheists that I am associated with, as soon as they smell a little aesthetical communication between any two people, their first intent is to destroy that sentiment in open forum even when they wern't part of the conversation.

            1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Really?  Your really think tht don't you? Hmmmm.....

              1. Onusonus profile image81
                Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I experiance it on a daily basis.

                1. LondonGirl profile image86
                  LondonGirlposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." GBS

                  1. Onusonus profile image81
                    Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    "All men who are in a carnal state are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness."-Alma

            2. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well. I was and am part of the conversation. Aesthetical? lol

              Someone (a christian I might add) has pointed out that they do not want your god shoved at them. You then made an inane sarcastic remark that suggested they should "deal with it."

              Which aptly demonstrates your lack of concern for others. A common theme in this thread.

              And I heartily recommend a decent dictionary to look up the meaning of the word "aesthetic." lol

              1. Onusonus profile image81
                Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                You have somehow misunderstood what I said, there was no sarcasm in my post  but I suppose when one scrapes for insults the last line of defense is pointing out gramatical error. Kudos to you!

                1. aka-dj profile image77
                  aka-djposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Onusonus, you should have noticed by now, how you write several points in a post, and only one (if any) gets replied to. Usually the least significant one.

                  I personally have been contemplating posting single point comments. But, I surmise, even that will be missed/misinterpreted. But of course, without some explanation, everyone reads into it what they want.

                  I guess the secret is, is to have fun with it, no matter how it "goes down".

                  Certainly my posts have never been intended with any malice, but boy have I copped some rebukes in the past. Ke'-se-ra-se-ra . . . lol

                2. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It wasn't a grammatical error.

                  Let us take it one point at a time then as you are so upset that I make fun of you using a word that has no meaning in this context.

                  First of all you use the term "militant atheist," which implies that any atheist who argues with believers is in favor of military action against them. This is incendiary, inaccurate and disingenuous.

                  Second of all, you use the term "aesthetical." This word does not exists and I am guessing you meant to imply that what you were discussing was beautiful in nature. This is untrue. Not only that, the sentence you used was this:


                  It was either sarcastic or inconsiderate and in no way acknowledged the person you were speaking to. Merely re-iterated that you feel you should be able to "witness," by preaching any time you feel like it regardless of others feelings on the subject.

                  1. Onusonus profile image81
                    Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    you fail to mention the fact that this person was responding to my origional post with extreemly negative connotations by the which I made the loving suggestion to cool down from a rather hot rant. You, being the pinacle of love and tolerance that you are, surmise that I am inconsiderant of other people's feelings because you lack the ability to find good in others.

  44. IntimatEvolution profile image71
    IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years ago

    forget it

    You know, you should really use the criticism as constructive.  Maybe you can't see anything wrong.  But, maybe in the future you will and that constructive criticism stashed away, will make you better for it.  But, you can't right now and I understand that.  You mad.  Well fine.  But really- don't cha...........never mind.  Peace

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What I get no love? big_smile

  45. IntimatEvolution profile image71
    IntimatEvolutionposted 8 years ago

    Well I live in a portion of America where Christians harass Christians all the time.  You'd think that maybe these Christians would at least go online and download some demographics or something.  Better yet, I don't understand why these Christians, don't go down into the ghetto, pick up trash or fix up a neighborhood and do some real Christian work instead of harassing people by going door to door living in all the safe Christian neighborhoods!

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly.  Teach, not preach.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Help all the children of the world don't preach to them about how they should be--help them where they are now.
      Christians are so durned worried about what is going to happen when----when---when---and hoping---hoping----hoping and not concentrating on the right now.  When you feel gratitude for what you have it goes on to others by what your thoughts and deeds are---not about mouthing anything.  Love comes from what you can do right now in this very moment where you are---not in some other place in some other land in some other time.

      Edited!

  46. RKHenry profile image79
    RKHenryposted 8 years ago

    What makes them (Christians) think that us non-believers want to spend eternity with them anyways?  That would be hell!!

  47. profile image45
    DavidDockposted 8 years ago

    We often focus on the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life, but the Spirit also has a vital role to play in the lives of non-Christians. The Holy Spirit ‘will convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment,’ taught Jesus (John 16:8). When we witness, the Spirit of God is not only working within us, prompting us as to what to say, but he is also working within those we witness to, convicting them of the truth of what we share and of their need of salvation.

    To understand the processes at work, we’ll look at Adam and Eve. Adam was not just another human. He is the human from whom all humanity came. All human genes (even Eve’s) come from him. Our entire genetic make-up was incorporated in him. So his reactions are likely to be typical of all human reactions.

    When Adam and Eve sinned, the first indication that they were under conviction was that their eyes were opened and they knew that they were naked.

    Conviction is God in his mercy opening our eyes to the reality of our spiritual condition. Without it we would be blissfully unaware that we are sinners. We’d be on our way to hell and not even know it.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I got a problem with the top paragraph in which you say thatr the Holy Spirit tells you what to say---does it also tell those priests and minsiters tht have done nasty things to their parishioners in his name?  Does it cover all those Catholic Priests that did all those dispicable things to their own children of the parish.

      Everything else you say is hogwash!  The Kingdom of God is within you--or did you mis that Sunday School lesson! LOL
      How can any of us be "blissfully unaware" of the sins we do if you all shove it down our throats, post it up on your church signs outside of every church and go witnessing.  I must say this is a good copout for those of you who preach it but don't live it adn where is the Self-Responisbility at....hmmmm. Get the log our of your eye first before you even try to get the sawdust out of someone else's eye.

    2. Make  Money profile image81
      Make Moneyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thank God for the merciful tenderness of His Holy Spirit.

      1. spiderpam profile image72
        spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ditto

  48. Ron Montgomery profile image59
    Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years ago

    To me it depends on the source of the belief.  I respect and am interested in anyone's spiritual beliefs that are borne from a personal revelation or experience.  If they understand that these beliefs pertain to them and almost certainly not to me, and simply want to share something to help with their own understanding; I'm all ears.

    When someone espouses beliefs that are based on such a dubious source as "the" bible; a collection of flawed works written by flawed authors that few "believers" bother to understand the origins of, count me out.  I have no interest in philosophies based on fear, ignorance, and injustice.

  49. spiderpam profile image72
    spiderpamposted 8 years ago

    I found this story and I think it sums up witnessing and why, plus it comes from a surprising source.
    http://lighthousealliance.org/site/?p=3061

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I went to that site and have more questions for you. 

      What messages are you getting from the Bible? 

      I am not talking about the ones that your church tells you on Sunday, but the ones that you are getting by sitting and reading the book by yourself without regards to what others are telling you.

      1. spiderpam profile image72
        spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Hello LG, could you be more specific. I know you hate church, Why?

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I am specific, why do you turn it around and not answer the question?

          1. spiderpam profile image72
            spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I believe John 3;16, The bible tells to love your neighnors hate sin/sinful actions(love the sinner hate the sin). I beleive God sent Jesus to die for our sins and in order to be saved, you must seek God, forsake your past sinful life and try with you heart, soul and mind to follow God Laws, and be baptized. Further more I believe We christians must practice what we preach. I answered this question from you before now that I've answered it again,just read my hubs, I can tell you my testimony and how I came to know Christ. What do you want to know how can I help you? Why do you hate church?

            1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              What is church to you before I state (many times I have) my thoughts and knowledge again.
              What does the whole paragraph say in John 3?

              1. spiderpam profile image72
                spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                John 3

                Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
                1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
                3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

                4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

                5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

                9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

                10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

                16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

                John the Baptist's Testimony About Jesus
                22After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized. 24(This was before John was put in prison.) 25An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew[i] over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."
                27To this John replied, "A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, 'I am not the Christ[j] but am sent ahead of him.' 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must become greater; I must become less.

                31"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[k] gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."[l]

                Church in my life has two meanings.
                1)it's a building where you can go to recieve the word of God
                2)a state of being in your heart where have been saved and you spend your life according to Gods will, spreading his word and being Christ-Like and being ready for Jesus Second Coming.

                1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
                  Lady Guinevereposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah, I see.  You don't see in the bible where Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within you? 
                  I have made my testamony on hubpages, yet many do not believe as many did not believe that it was Jesus who did as he said that he would and did in fact come back after he died.  Read my comment to Onusonus.
                  Jesus said that the temple of the lord is our own bodies, not a building and not a church and not doctrines that those churches teach.
                  I do not hate church, what I don't like is they do not teach the message that Jesus came to teach us.  The wrap it all up in being put on guilt trips so that you will feel guilty and do whatever they want you to do so that you can give them money to build churches.  Doctrine is not Jesus's teachings.  Jesus even said that to the clergy of his time.

                  That which goe against what is show to you in that Bible is labelled evil, Satanic and then there is also a pattern to which you try to convert others.  Jesus did not say to convert anyone or make anyone believe like the church doctrine states.  He simply said to tell others about his miracles and his words (only his words have been so messed up whose to say what he really said.  He also said that we can and we will do more than he could ever do and that surprises me about church doctrine because he never said that we had to do it through someone else.
                  The Jesus that I know and have had personal contact with is not like how the Bible portrays him at all.  He did what he said he was going to do.....end of story.  That is why he put the laws (not in a book) in our hearts and minds so that we could never forget them.  We know what is right and what is wrong.

                  Now let me ask you another question.  Who told you that you sinned and did something very terrible?

                  1. spiderpam profile image72
                    spiderpamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    No One It's called having a conscience ie conviction. You have it too believe or not. Question to you LG. Why do you feel the need to say what you do? I believe what I believe and tell others my testimony they choose what to do and who to follow. Why can't you do that as well You can't change everyones heart, but you can give them your POV and let it go and keep them in your thoughts and prayers, and if they ask you further questions lead them to Christ and let him take over. You've said you have read the bible when you read did you have a contrive heart? Were you looking for a specific answer? Was it for you or to disproven the bible all together? We disagree LG, but I don't hate you or wish you any ill will.
                    PS Where does Revelation fit into your theory? Or is that crazy talk to you?

    2. Make  Money profile image81
      Make Moneyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The atheist in this short video speaks with intelligence.  Thanks Pam.

  50. SweetiePie profile image84
    SweetiePieposted 8 years ago

    Mostly I just find it amusing how some gung ho Christians try to persuade everyone to adopt their faith, and how a few of the outspoken atheists state you are not enlightened until you stop believe in God.  Both of these stances are two extreme for me lol.

 
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