In my own personal belief I do not think that the marriage of the same sex was ever blessed by God. I am curious what my fellow hubbers response would be if they were asked if same sex marriage was ok in the eyes of God?
This viewpoint doesn't really fit with the Christian idea of God. God's supposed to lack human weakness and sin -- one of which is prejudice.
I could reference any number of "judge not" verses from the Bible, but I have a feeling they'd be falling on deaf ears. Too often these days religion just seems to be a convenient excuse to justify personal opinions. Man creates God in his own image. Ironic, no?
The Coffin has been Laid into the Ground...thanks Maddie.
1xxy you are so right many times people try to mold God to fit their desires in life! Often times we do not take God's warnings serious and soon regret that we had missed out on a blessing because we had not been following in the obedience of the Lord!
Same sex marriage is totally forbidden by God-ALLAH. The people of Prophet Lut (peace be upon him) were the first in the history of the world involved in this sin and they were perished.
Qur'an, Ch 7-The Heights, V 80-84
80. We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
81. "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
82. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
83. But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind.
84. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!
Just what the world needs a homophobic god who kills anyone who disagrees.
So then why are they still here?
Stand back if you see any of them-- and watch out for the brimstone .
It isn't ok. Marriage is the union between a man and a woman.
Say some religions, true. But some churches allow gay marriages, and a lot of people don't have a religious wedding anyway.
Check out this video, and see if it doesn't make you think twice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFNlYp3n20
Very few things are "okay" in the eyes of a fundamentalist's God.
Really, has this not gone far enough for you who believe, no, interpret the bible in your terms. Two thousand years have passed and I am most sure homosexual relationships have existed throughout time forward. Just because we have gotten to a point to declare equality of rights, the religious persons are ofeended and pressing the biblical words in our face. I love it when you come knocking at my home to spread your word; I answer the door naked and introduce my partner as my wife..... That seems to get you to scatter off faster than ice on a hot day....
I think anything good comes from God. Period. That's it. So love is defined as good, and what is good comes from God. So if it's between two same sex people, does that make it evil and from the Devil? And if that's that case, why would God allow Satan to turn love to a perversion.
That's what I think.
I like your thinking but cannot agree with the belief of a superior being in this time and age. We are born and we die. I have not yet met or heard from any relative who has died telling me how to continue with my life. Sexual attraction on the other hand, is what makes me happy. Who I have in my relationship, and minding all parts of respect for the general society, I should not be condenmed by those who would rather believe in a book with questionable authenticity and church manipulation as the absolute truth of a "word from God".
Same sex marriage is WRONG PERIOD!!! How can you be fruitful and multiply with someone who has the same parts has you???!!! Besides God destroyed a whole city because of that sin!!! That alone should tell you that it is wrong!!!! But those who are gay believe what they want to believe and i will believe what the bible says and i will leave it at that.
God bless everyone!
The point of life is not to be "fruitful and multiply". But believe what you want
Infertile people shouldn't get married or have sex either, then, eh?
As is the case with many bible verses quoted by people who justify their hatred of others by claiming it to be "God's word", the English translation of this Aramaic phrase is inaccurate. The original phrase: Insertius phallum bon noogie tork, translates most accurately as: Pollination of fruit requires multiple bees. It can be taken literally as agricultural advice or allegorically as God's favor cast upon bisexual promiscuity.
May the blessings of FSM rain upon all.....even the haters.
So close the robe over you fool, do you realise how stupid you come across Ron. Are you the Ron out of Happy Days ??
There was no Ron on Happy Days. Fonzie, Pottsy, Richie, Joannie, Chachi.........no Ron.
Who are you to say what God believes in? If 2 people are in love and want to get married its there buisness and they are not hurting me in any way. Let them do as they wish and leave them alone, its there choice...
We are nothing to attribute any sentence or even a word to God. God Himself is against same sex marriage or homosexuality. And we can not let them jump into hell fire. It's our duty to educate them and show them the real pictures of these Pagan practices.
What is it to you who marries who and who are you to say god doesnt bless same sex marriages. Its really none of your buisness and how is it hurting you Id like to know?
in the eyes of my god it is ok.
"Let he who has not sinned through the first stone."- Your God.
I don't mind homos marrying each other as long as they get married by a government bureaucrat or somebody authorized by law to marry, or if they want to they can marry in a "church" that is so twistedly liberal it thinks "God understands" and all that crap.
They can't get married in our church, that's for sure, but they're welcome to sit down and listen to the Word of God if they fancy themselves Christians too. Hell, that word's been so overused anyway they can have it as well.
And they'll have to squirm in their seats or leave if the subject of the preacher should happen to be their lifestyle, which the preacher will probably not preach on with them around out of respect for their sensibilities.
Why do I not mind them getting married ?
Because (1) government wants to dip its fangs and claws into something which is God-ordained by usurping the authority to declare which marriage is valid and which is not based on those stupid pieces of paper that is supposed to be a binding contract and which is more often than not used as "hankies" and toilet paper once the sexual attraction flies out the window and the divorce attorney is called in, which brings us to number (2) those pieces of paper are what these homos are after anyway. Something which guarantees rights to the offending party's moolah and jaguars or the like. Only a very small percentage of these people want to marry for God's blessings (which I do not believe can be found even in so-called "straight" marriages) which they absolutely do not have and which I can say with absolute certainty they will not have, or God is not God at all.
My two shits' worth.
The word "homo" is politically incorrect, they'd prefer to be called "gay" or "homosexual".
You got it right in the end... god is not god at all
The word "gay" is a beautiful, descriptive English word and I refuse to refer to their sexual preference with that word.
Homosexual, yes, I can live with that.
Homo was used not to spite them, so I apologize to any homosexual I may have offended.
Yes, I did, but not for the same reason you say the same thing.
I think that love and commitment are always OK in the eyes of God.
I think people should read what God said about love in "Conversations With God" before making any guesses or pronouncements about His point of view.
If you do a search you will find that this topic has been discussed ad nauseum...
I don't know why I'm going to answer this. Clearly the person doesn't want an answer, but I will anyway. If you believe in what the Bible tells you then it is clear that God doesn't need anyone's help. How many times does it have to be written before devout believers can figure that out?
If God doesn't like same sex marriage he or she will deal with the perpetrators on judgement day. That is what judgement day is for isn't it? People shouldn't be trying to play God on Earth; God probably likes that less than same sex marriage.
Thank you Pete for making such a point i cant believe the ignorance of the Religious community on this subject and i hope one day we can come to resolution. But a this time in our societies birth i believe that we are not intelligent enough as a whole to accept any other marriage than one between two heterosexual couples.
Does that statment mean you are into group sex?
I don't think a marriage between two heterosexual couples really works for the religious folks.
i think they need to see first what GOD can actually do to them because of what they are doing... maybe they are just waiting for the Judgement day. All i can say is, they should be afraid on what they may recieve from God in return.
I rem someone named mohhmad was asking questions like this back 2 months ago
To be completely honest, marriage needs to be shelved.
You don't know what it's for anymore.
And it's mostly to lock up a man into a relationship so if he ever cheats, the woman gets more.
In California, anyway.
It's a legally binding contract.
It's also a thing between a couple and a church.
But, more importantly, it's a legally binding contract.
That...again, is mostly for the woman.
Ahh, marriage. ;D Why can't you just live together, have kids or not, and not worry about having to lock yourselves into something? You worry that you'll want out of it later? I mean, divorce and all..but I digress.
Hey, all I'm really trying to say is...marriage is funny. Weddings are great, though. But marriage...meh..seems like a lot of work for something people apparently don't believe in, since they have to have someone validate their union.
But thats just my .04 cents, and you're free to fire back. I'm not here to change anyones minds.
You need to get off your parade here. What, you have a church somewhere in Boofunk, whatever.... You may not understand how two people can be attracted to each other. Surely, you found someone who submissive to you, but that is what the religious peeps declare as "the mans right".....
Grow up, open your mind, if you are bothered by Gay people then do not marry us........... Stay in the dark, rub wood, and preach your "God said this" stories..........
I concur. It is nobody else's business and it is nobody's god's business either!
Those in favor of gay marriage do themselves no favors by attacking religion in general, IMO.
A lot of people who have no problem with gay marriage are religious people in whatever form they practice. A small minority is not going to advance its cause by alienating a large majority, many of whom might otherwise be quite amenable to their views.
There are some people who attack religion in general, to be sure, but I think a lot of people are only objecting to intolerant religion.
And, to be fair, the question was posed in the context of religion, at least on this thread.
Sure, but we see in many threads here that the reaction to anything religious is (by some) "Oh, silly religion! You people don't think for yourselves!" or "Your superstitious nonsense is the root of oppresion!" or some such thing. That is not going to expand the field of those who might support the cause in question.
People who do nothing but shout "religion is stupid! religion is stupid!" are as bad as the people who do nothing but shout "god hates you! god hates you!"
Gotta take a practical approach.
It is still nobody else's business or their god's business either!
When you get flat homophobic statements like the one above, complete with "proof" from the Quoran I have usually got something to say, and that ain't gonna stop soon.
Don't stop, but maybe consider addressing the individual bigot and not denouncing entire faiths.
Any faith that preaches fear and hate leaves itself open to be examined by all.Even those who have the same faith can deny any of these statements if they are not in the book that has been quoted from.
Examining is one thing, denouncing an entire faith is another. Not saying you were necessarily doing that, just making a general point.
You speak much truth earnestshub when you say that words of hatred are seeking the wrath of their God! Many times we get caught up judging one another for the sake of our own personal gain! All individuals have the right to live as they desire and we as fellow people should allow them that right!
My vote of support goes to Earnestshub for speaking out against the nonsense written by that dude Usman. There are places in Islamic countries where such attitude incites folks out there to resort to hate crimes against homosexuals....Religion is a personal choice but if it ends up making folks like him nut cases then earnestshub is justified in speaking out. Just in case that guy barges...I am a straight guy.
I will apologize for the harseness of my previous statement. Maybe I had a wee bit more caffiene than usual. Gay Pride in San Diego consisted of a huge parade lasting several hours from start to finish. It was amazing to see represented approximately a dozen churches around the area in support of gay people, gay families, and gay right to marriage. So, I do not blame all religious persons or their beliefs. Just think there are some who undermine by their own proxy to continue a negative crusade against gay people.
I wrote on this subject a little while ago. I find it sad that gays often preach tolerance, but if you disagree with their lifestyle you're called homophobic or bigot so much for tolerance. I believe it's wrong, and a lot of people agree with me, but won't stand up for their beliefs due to the fear of being labeled. So much for freedom of Speech, but to add insult to injury, gays go as far as to call it a civil rights issue, comparing race to bahavior. "The idea that the fight for gay marriage bears any logical resemblance to the history of Black enslavement, to the legacy of Brown vs. Board of Education, or to the Civil Rights Movement is not only wrong - it is disrespectful. Black Americans have suffered no less than 300 years of racial hatred in this country. To this day, the legacy of slavery is a palpable factor in every vein of American life. Our ancestors fought, bled and died for the progress we have thus far attained. We dishonor their sacrifices by allowing gay marriage advocates to advance gay-black analogies." But if anything has King spinning in his grave, it is the indecency of exploiting his name for a cause he never supported. The civil rights movement for which he lived and died was grounded in a fundamental truth: All God's children are created equal. The same-sex marriage movement, by contrast, is grounded in the denial of a fundamental truth: The Creator who made us equal made us male and female. That duality has always and everywhere been the starting point for marriage. To claim that marriage can ignore that duality is akin to the claim, back when lunch counters were segregated, that America was a land of liberty and justice for all. I don't care find entire world made gay marriage legal, it still doesn't make it right and it still won't give gays the peace they yearn for.
PS please stop confusing faith, conviction and morals with religion. They are polar opposites.
http://media.www.hlrecord.org/media/sto … 2124.shtml
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/castillo/ … 94744.html
Oh dear - another cut and paste christianist. You copied the bulk of that statement from here:
Don't you know lying is a sin? As is judging and condemning. Read your book darling.
And "All God's children are created equal" means everyone has the same rights. Including gays to marry.
Hello again how are you today? I hope well. I was waiting on you to stop my right to free speech. Right on time:) thx for proving my point Mark Knowless
Yes, I am well, thank you.
You are free to say whatever you wish, and I cannot and do not want to stop you. But - you did not say that - you stole it from some one else to back up your ongoing rant against gay marriage.
And if you do not see the irony in saying "All gods children are equal, but gay ones should not be allowed to marry because they are not as equal"...................
I thought I put quotes, but I must've miss it, I agree with their statement and could not have put it in better word myself that why I used their words. Thx for point it out to me. Equal meaning the right to exist and not be persucuted,(we differ on the definion among many other things). Many states allow domestic partnership and civil unions which gives them the same right a straight couples, but the push for the title of marriage seems absurd to me and to most Americans. I don't agree with the lifestyle and believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.
Pleae update me on your version of Christianity. Is plagiarism an acceptable tactic in your battle to control the lives of everyone around you? How about the deliberate misspelling of Mark's name? Are you really unable to make a point on your own without resorting to such sophomoric means?
I thought I put quotes, but I must've miss it, I agree with their statement and could not have put it in better word myself that why I used their words. Thx for point it out to me. Here are my sources http://media.www.hlrecord.org/media/sto … 2124.shtml
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/castillo/ … 94744.html
I read your article Spiderpam. It is stuffed with scripture language to fit your personal beliefs along with hatred, predjudice, and warnings of impending doom. You obviously do not understand what the real significance is for gay marriage. Instead, you chose, as others of the flock, to drag out the holy word to preach a stance supporting discrimination. Oh, I like the ending about the "lake of fire". I assume you meant hell.
See again you confuse faith, morals and conviction with religion. I don't hate you, don't believe the hype, I simply believe your lifestyle choice is wrong. I love my brother, but he is phyiscally abusive to women I think that's wrong too, but I still love him. You chosen to define your entire being, by your sexual preference. Why? Isn't there more to you? "I find it sad that gays often preach tolerance, non discrimination but if you disagree with their lifestyle you're called homophobic or bigot, so much for tolerance." If you read my article you would have gotten that.
maybe this article will make my point clear.
Sadly, your point is very clear. Re-stating your disdain for gay people and then claiming not to be homophobic makes it seem that YOU are unclear as to your feelings. You do not present your side of the case well, (if it's even possible to logically defend such an absurd stance) How can you claim to love people yet campaign to deny them the basic rights you enjoy? How can you claim to love them but denounce as sin their deepest expressions of love?
I read every post and I think I've figured it out Earnesthub,HealthCare Basics,Ron Montgomery,Mark Knowles are all gay that's why they are picking on the few people here that disagree with them. It all makes sense. If they are offended by me calling them gay the are homophobic. Gays why do you want the label of mariage anyway if it's really love(which I doubt) civil unions or domestic partnership should be fine. there must be some underline hole you're trying to fill(no pun intended). The world is ending grab a beer and let it burn.
I'm really glad you're on the other side of this issue. If an ignorant rant such as yours was posted supporting my position it might be enough to drive me into the embrace of a gay-bashing priest.
I'm on your side lover:) I love when you talk dirty. I'll support your position all night long
Well Noona, you hit it on the head, so to speak. Marriage is not my exact term that I like, but it has to do with federal level recognition. Feds do not recognize civil union or Domestic Partnerships, so if my partner dies or I die, we are unable to continue to collect each others pensions like married folks. Domestic Partnerships does not help in that situation. You can also throw in Social Security benefits, inheritance benefits, and fed tax filing.
Example: We just helped a friend who had been with his partner for 30 years. Car accidents are cruel. He has been forced to move from their home because his partner's pension does not recognize their marriage/domestic partnership. Without that monetary income he had to move into senior housing.
So why are people who disagree with us called bigots? You are part of the problem. Let them have their say. This is America right? No one trying to stop us from living our lives? Come on man Peace and Love.
Noonatyuma- My friend it isn't so straightforward and for me at least your reasoning doesn't make sense(unless there was sarcasm in your earlier post). And FYI most of those folks whom you named earlier are straight folks. Just because like me they tend to have empathy for homosexuals doesn't make any of us "gay". Anyway that is besides the point. The point about being called strong words like "bigot" is not due to anybody's religious beliefs but due to the intolerance perpetrated by there strongly held religious beliefs.
HealthCare Basics- I have had this discussion with my colleague once who is a straight person why in our company the "gays" who live together officially after registering as domestic partners can have there partner registered under there health insurance plan but the same right isn't being offered to heterosexual couples who aren't married. Another colleague of mine offered this answer that since the homosexual couples don't have a right to marry officially they are being given this facility unlike heterosexual couples who voluntarily decide not to marry hence they can't claim similar benefit. Some may treat it as discrimination and others may treat it as equality. The debate is open.
Who cares about religion. We can't call people bigots than call for tolerance, don't you get that.
No, your colleague is a tad bit wrong. If you live in a State where Domestic Partnerships are legal and you work for a company that participates with Equal Opportunity Employment, chances are the health Insurance offered allows coverage to Domestic Partners. Years ago, that was not the case. Now to get the coverage, you have to present a Domestic Partnership certificate before coverage, and in most cases, both must share the same domicile. If I did not have a Domestic partnership, I could not extend my health insurance to my partner. Opposite sex couples can sign a domestic partnership if living under the same roof, and one or both are of retirement age. At least in California that is....
Honestly, I never actually looked at it in this light before. I think that if two people are committed to each other and is dependent upon each other for survival, they should be entitled to the same benefits as a "marrage". I feel the same way about Common law marriages, co-habitating situations etc.
Couldn't this issue be solved by the two parties entering into a contract that honors the commitment and outlines the rights of the individuals. Since it is a contract, the court would have to uphold it. Marriage, afterall, is a legal binding contract.
This way you do not have to use the word, marriage, civil union, domestic partnership and you do not have to worry about the gender. It is the same way that a will is used. For instance in the scenario written above, if there was a will written where the partner inherited the assets, the court would have to honor them. Wouldn't they?
I'm gay, and I don't need same-sex marriage to be happy. Why are we trying fit into the round peg of the masses, I choice this life and love my life nuff said. If you don't agree with me fine peace and love 2 you, I don't think you're homophobic (can we stop using that word please.) You're not a bigot, we just disagree, move on people!
Well, you may not want to get married, but maybe other people do.
The point is equality. If straight folks would like to give up the label of marriage and settle for domestic partnerships as well, that would be fabulous.
In my own personal opinion, marriage shouldn't be a label given by the government. Marriage is a religious institution. Domestic partnerships or "civil unions" or whatever you want to call them are the only thing the gov't should be involved in--for tax purposes, benefits, legal issues, etc.
Sure, don't marry and be happy. I'm straight, not married, and perfectly happy with that, too.
But don't you think gay people who do want to marry should be able to do so?
I also agree not to call Gay Marriage a "Marriage" just because of the whole religious side. Marriage can stay in the church for all I care. I just would like the government to recognize civil unions and/or domestic partnerships and provide the same protective rights as the institution of marriage.
I know this might upset those in the gay world because I have many friends who have had "marriage" vows within their church by ministers. It makes them happy and they feel it is the right thing to do. Personally, I'd rather stick with obtaining equal status of civil unions/DP's.
I dont see why a same sex couple woud want to marry under God?
Many homosexuals chose their own morals and way of life so , let them marry themselves ( my opinion)
Are those kitties both of the same sex. If so, their display of affection is an unforgivable sin according to the experts posting to this forum.
I don't justify my lifestyle, by comparing myself to a animal. Grow up
Is earliler a word? Please use it in a sentence.
Two different identities, same spelling mistakes.
How are you, Urias?
Good eye, Sufi. at first I thought it was the originator of the thread, mdawson. But I think you're right.
The racist, from this thread
I suspect that this 'incarnation' is neither racist nor gay, but is trolling. A sock puppet for a Hubber, isn't that right, Urias
Whatever you say Uranass. I'm not the only gay for civil unions, Oh No I disagree with the gays in this forum "I'm a Homophobic Bigot"
With poor writing skills.
Are you off of my side yet?
We have to stick together. Gays are one. We can't let them win.
Don't call me gay; you're upsetting my sheep!
"Funny how? You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?" Tommy from "Goodfellas"
Nice try - but then I have little inclination to argue with a sock-puppet
The kittens are animals
I am not, never was , never will be.
(that should keep someone busy while I get some dinner, hubbing is hungry work !)
Please stop using that word. No one fears us. Some approve some disapprove. You are the problem, your are NOT helping the cause. you are making it worse with the name calling STOP!! That goes everyone else who uses that word or bigot to describe someone who disagree with same-sex marriage. They have a right to that opinion. This is America!!!
No, this is the internet, not America. I'm in London!
I'm sorry you don't have free speech, but here every side should a voice
I have a right to use that word if I please. ("This is America!!!" to quote you.) And really, I think people against gay marriage ARE afraid. Listen to their propoganda--all fear-mongering: Watch out, they're going to teach your kids it's okay to be gay! Watch out, they're going to take over our monopoly on the word "marriage"!
What is so terrible about other people having the same rights as you? It doesn't diminish your own rights. I just don't get it.
And people should have the right to be against gaymarriage without being called names. It's the new buzz word for people who don't have anything smart to say. You are not gay, you are trying to get on the train so you can feel cool. You are getting in the way of our progress. I don't fear people against gay marriage I fear you. You're right you don't get it.
Firstly, you have no idea what my sexual orientation is.
Secondly, I don't hear a lot of real content coming from you other than "This is America!!!" You haven't responded to any of my points.
Of course people have a right to their opinions. But opinions should not be what law is based on. People are free to believe gay marriage is immoral if they like. What they should not be free to do is let that personal judgement inform discriminatory laws.
Read all my post than get back to me. I think I've been very clear. Your points are based on HATE. HATE against anyone who disagrees with you. I don't care if your gay straight, whatever. Law are laws. If you are looking to the government to be happy maybe you're not really in love, because a piece of paper means NOTHING. Forget Prop 8, Let work to make the civil unions law Stronger.
I've read all your posts. I've never said I hate anyone. I don't. On the contrary, you seem to hate anyone who supports gay marriage.
As I said, I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just don't think it should inform law. And I'm not looking to the government to make me happy. But I believe government is there to protect people's rights. If you don't believe that, why are you looking to them to "make civil unions law stronger?"
Who's calling people names, now, really? This is ridiculous, and unconstructive. I'm happy to talk differences of opinion, but only if you agree to be civil and try to stop contradicting yourself. Otherwise, I've said my piece.
I simply don't like the name calling it's childish, rude and helps nothing. Okay you didn't read my post let me repost "I'm gay, and I don't need same-sex marriage to be happy. Why are we trying fit into the round peg of the masses, I chose this life and love my life nuff said.", but you seem to need a cause work on civil unions.
Well whoopty-frikn-do! So you get to speak for all of us because YOU'RE happy? That's like saying "I only eat cheeseburgers and I'm happy so I don't get why we need pizza parlors". Are you serious?
Meow? if you need affirmation from the masses go ahead, I can;t speak for you. I hate cats:)
As I suspected...no signs of intelligent life here, just dumb jokes. Wouldn't be surprised if this is mdawson's alter-ego we're talking to.
Have you ever attended school at any level? Your lack of basic grammar skills serves to amplify the inherent weakness of your arguments.
Well Farmer Brown. It's not mt fault you can't read. I told you I'm on your side.
Without being called names what are you 6 years old.
Even I don't get it. A few decades back even a marriage between the so called "higher"and "lower" caste among Hindus in India wouldn't have got social approval but now all marriages are allowed. Even in US something similar I believe was happening where inter racial marriages where frowned upon. And for those who are opposing marriage for same sex(due to religious beliefs) then here is a excerpt from a book that says ‘marriage is a union of spirits and the spirit is not male or female.’ I guess as humanity we need to move forward rather than backward in our thinking. Aren't those who are homosexuals any less a citizen than others. I hope people learn to live and let live.
I personaly think gay marrige is ok! Atractions to a man and a woman is the same as man to man or woman to woman. Even though its agiangst some religions the goverment shouldnt be able to tell people who they should like and dislike or marry. Poeple with the religion that doesnt belive in it should be able to belive that or not to belive that . Think of the Declaration of Independance. Quote:"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness" Unquote. We should be able to pruse happiness with out someone telling us difrent.!
any body ever notice how that Dawson character always starts these controversial forum topics and then bales on the conversation? He does it every time.
I reiterate my original response-->
hey Mr/Ms. "I've been here for 5 hours and have no hubs or fans" (noonatyuma)...if one group gets to do it (marriage) then every group should get to.
I'm all for civil unions being made stronger but there are other benefits to "real" marriage that have nothing to do with love. If it was all about nothing but love, NO ONE would ever have to get married for any reasons (other than religious, perhaps)...but that is not the reality.
Any intellectually honest person knows this...there is no LOGICAL basis for keeping gay marriages illegal/unrecognized in a society that recognizes hetero marriages. Absolutely none.
Ok cat lady, with 4 weeks on me. big whoop! meow
Okay, deal. I am shutting the F up right now. Farmer Brown...?
My eyes need a break from the screen. It's just about "pub time" here in San Diego....
Folks - if you want to waste your time with a sock-puppet, go ahead.
Okay hippie, peace, love, and sock puppets:)
Cheers to the first two! Third one, not so much, sock puppets are annoying.
HA! I am physically walking away from the computer now..."Super" gay?
As soon as you show your real face cat lady.
I had a sock monkey I really liked when I was a kid.
I had a sock-dragon - sadly deceased.
Sock monkeys are cool. A friend of mine made a Facebook page for her sock monkey, but someone told and it was deleted We took him on a road trip and have fun pictures of him in the hotel room, in the restaurant, in the car
What is it with people who only post in the forum to start arguments?
Here, here... I'll drink to that..... Hey Sufidreamer!!!
It was a long time ago, but my aunt sewed in a red, forked tongue and lots of green triangles down the back.
Sadly, she refused to add fire-breathing capabilities. Might have to ask Frogdropping for advice on that one
I had a pink dragon with turquoise spots and purple spikes. I stuffed it myself at the Teddy Bear Factory. It was the 80's.
Something like this one, although mine was purple.
http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/sock_p … _craft.htm
I had to make a stuffed cat, but it did not quite go to plan. Still, I managed to punt it to my cousin as a Christmas present.
She pretended to like it
Not sure what that has to do with anything. But I'm Cole. Hi!
Hey Cole. I'm Yuma. I joined this site trying to get some POVs beyond my own.
Well it isn't very nice to request someone's picture without at least having one up yourself.
As far as learning from different points of view, make sure you have an open mind first. It is better to say, "I just don't know" and learn than "This is what I know" and not. The best way to do that is to listen to what other people have to say and then ask questions. Not insist upon your point of view and preach, that is merely having your own opinion and denying other points of view. Some people are not sure how to separate the two.
That what seems to happen here. If you disagree with the masses you are called homophobic or bigot, I'm gay and I just don't get that.
Nobody called you homophobic, or a bigot, for the record. And you coulda fooled everyone about the signing up to get POVs different than your own. Seemed like you signed up to rant and rave against any POVs different than your own.
You again? Be gone homophobic bigot. Doesn't sound to nice does it. I don't care if nobody called me that you shouldn't call anyone that. Why is that so hard to get across to you?
Umm that's the kind of attitude that is going to get you called names. Just be more respectful with your posts. You'll be able to express your opinions and get respect in return. Just a tip!
Yes. I work here.
I didn't call anyone a homophobic bigot. I'm not sure why that's so hard to get across to you.
"Maybe their God isn't homophobic."
So a Religous persons God is homophobic. Sorry that's much better.
That doesn't follow, sorry. If you believe in God, you ARE religious. So the gay people who want to be married in church, ARE religious, and NOT homophobic. And there are many different religions with different versions of "God." Just because one person's God isn't, doesn't mean everyone else's is.
Wrong! God and Religion are NOT the same thing.
Well it is all in how you say it. You want to say something so that your opinion is out there but you want to make clear you don't object to someone else's.
So you SHOULD have said "While I am gay, and I feel I have made that choice, I personally do not feel the need to be 'married' however I know that not all homosexuals feel that way"
Watch your grammer too, sometimes a lack of good grammer can infringe on getting your point across. We're typing here, its not like we can hear your tone of voice. A lot of times things are mistaken to mean something else.
Well I only have one free hand right now (hurt pinky)
That's a convenient excuse for your ignorance...unfortunately it dosen't really fly. Bad grammar and the odd misspelled word are not the same things.
I'm sure you DO only have one hand free, but I doubt it's for the reason you stated.
You guys, we are arguing with a troll. Sufi pegged it hours ago...and I am just as guilty.
Ron, I'm going back over to the other forum where I can hurl free form insults at you and your sheep!
Does anyone else get annoyed when people come in the forums and make no argument for their point of view and just bash others? Especially when the forum is for Hubbers, and technically they haven't "Hubbed."
Yuma, nice meeting you. But seriously, put the wall down. If you came here to get other views, then listen and ask questions. There is no need for the way you act. No one is going to want to share their views with you. Which is the reason you came right?
Oh goodness! It was sooo hard. Thanks for asking though. I'll let you guys know how I did. Then I had to sit through lecture afterwards... nervous system next! Now I'm at work studying for another test tomorrow... it never ends
Well Cole, I just can't stand hypocritical gays, who demand tolerance and can't practice what they preach(Rudd and cat lady) they are the problem in the fight for gay rights.
Your ignorance is astounding..I mean really breathtaking. I sure hope Sufi is right because if you are for real...holy sh**.
Really so explain to me how name calling help gay rights. Yeah cat lady's back!
Because we disagree, I'm ignorant. Since you insist on name calling. You're a poopy head
Umm Yuma, I'm pretty sure the name calling has a part in it. Usually when someone calls someone else ignorant, it isn't because of their point of view, but rather the lack of back up, or thier back up (logic) doesn't make any sense.
I'm gay, and I don't need same-sex marriage to be happy. Why are we trying fit into the round peg of the masses, I chose this life and love my life nuff said. If you don't agree with me fine peace and love 2 you. I believe we should make civil unions stronger and leave marriage alone. I refuse to go around calling people who disagree with me homophobic,bigot of mock their religion. It hurts more than helps. It's a simple stance, maybe too simple for the brains in this forum.
The first sentence says everything. YOU don't need same sex marriages to be happy. However, you are NOT speaking for everyone. Just as I would like to be married and feel it is necessary for me to be happy, someone who is gay has that right as well. You're right, I don't agree with your opinion. It is ok to not want to get married, it is not ok to want to deny that to someone else. Sorry.
Man, that is one killer insult. You sir are the Don Rickles of HubPages forums.
Umm I don't think that was their opinions on the matter. But anyways.. if you are looking for opinions, then you sit back and relax. If you are looking to give your opinion, then do it respectfully, or you'll get nothin' outta everyone here.
In my opinion, gay relationships are the same as hetero ones. There will be couples who want to get married and see marriage as extrememly important to their relationship. Then there are couples who don't want/need marriage and will settle for not being married or a common law or civil union. But someone's personal opinion shouldn't affect the opportunities for others.
My aunt chose not to get married, but she wouldn't ever consider denying that to another couple. Same with a gay person, marriage may not be for them, but that doesn't mean they speak for the whole gay community.
I don't mind being called a hypocritical gay, but calling me "Rudd" is simply unforgiveable. Ruud. Say it with me. Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud. Rhymes with dude, food, pooed, cooed, and lewd.
This was your first post:
Probably your very first post on HP:
"I read every post and I think I've figured it out Earnesthub,HealthCare Basics,Ron Montgomery,Mark Knowles are all gay that's why they are picking on the few people here that disagree with them. It all makes sense. If they are offended by me calling them gay the are homophobic. Gays why do you want the label of mariage anyway if it's really love(which I doubt) civil unions or domestic partnership should be fine. there must be some underline hole you're trying to fill(no pun intended). The world is ending grab a beer and let it burn."
You doubted that gays could truly be in love, and speculated as to the sexual orientation of HP members. Afterwards you repeatedly name called. Realize that if you are gay, you do not speak for the gay community. If you don't see anything wrong with your initial post, then I can't help you. You are obviously not here to hear the "POV" of others.
Have a good night.
You can't tell a joke when you see it, go outside!
I thought jokes were supposed to be funny. In my opinion (and probably of most), your post was not funny. I'm going now.
Well it's been fun! I don't think Hubpages is for me. Too many agendas not enough time. Ron, you're funny. Cat Lady and Rudd I hearby take away your gay card, and you can't get it back until you write "I will practice what I preach." one thousand times. Cole don't be so serious, you seem nice enough though. Mark I didn't really get to talk to you, but you're either a Mormon or an Atheist I can't figure out. Peace out guys. I'm off to the nightlife.
Funny thing that because I have found many guys ( not all ) think a discussion is an arguement ,so frustrating when they say 'Look I dont want to argue' grrrr...
Back from the pub. Did I miss anything worth discussing??
Really, a marriage only between a man and a woman. Give me a break here!!!! Sexual attraction has no boundaries. If you find yourself checking out girls, that's fine. If you find yourself checking out guys, well, that is a problem with some segments of society. Same thing if a girl checks out another girl. What is the problem in this?
lol, no. Well not anymore settling down and trying to start a life now.
Good. Wish you well. We are a good community here and support each other. I will check your hubs and be in contact. Don't worry, I am easy on judgement.
Thank you very much I am still trying to get my feet wet. I love to write but right at this minute i am at a creative slump. Tons of things being thrown at me at once and I'm trying to handle them all with tact and responsibility. I appreciate the support.
I think someone should start a REAL defense of marriage campaign. First, we need to outlaw divorce because right now it's at over 50%. That's gotta be on the agenda, right? I mean, if you're "defending marriage"...?
Oh, no body thinks that's a good idea? Hmm...perhaps the heteros DON'T have this thing down pat after all!
I dont believe anyone can have a "PERFECT" marriage. Two people coming together with different background and different upbringings always causes SOME kind of conflict. The difficulty is leaning how to love your spouse enough to not make those little differences separate them.
Couldn't agree with you more, Justin. My point is that those who use language like "defense of marriage" aren't serious and/or don't think things through very well.
I dont believe anyone can "PERFECT" marriage. Two people coming together with different background and different upbringings always causes SOME kind of conflict. The difficulty is leaning how to love your spouse enough to not make those little differences separate them.
The love relationship between two people is about chemistry. How you connect, physically, emotionally, and sexually. On the adult level, one should not care what others may think. Trust in your feelings, ignore others, and build a compassion between two persons, two souls, and two lovers.
Can we just get over noona "something". I have no idea what he is talking about.......
The purpose of all that, I believe, is to make the people here, 'liberals,' realize they are not as tolerant as they think they are. That they have a certain mindset that is just as bad as what most of us would label a 'bigot.' To make them think.
However, he's not doing a very good job (very seriously losing his touch, ). Shades was much more eloquent in addressing the issue in this post:
I agree, Lita - I expected a better standard of argument.
Trying to force black and white distinctions upon people does not a bigot make - most folks are somewhere in the middle
Add to that the fact that these 'labels' have completely different meanings, internationally, and a forum has too much room for misunderstandings.
HCB - Hope you enjoyed your evening!
Thank you very much for the welcome and i hope that my opinion is not to shocking for some.
Sleep well, and I hope that the meeting goes well
It is nearly midday here, and pushing 40 degrees Centigrade
Wow it is 9c here and heading for 6 C overnight in Melbourne. I would love to feel some of that heat right now..
lol - the joys of winter. It will be reversed in a few months!
I have a couple of Aussie-Greek friends who spent most of their life in Melbourne - they both miss it dearly
This issue on same-sex marriage is not being dealt appropriately by both its advocates and its oppositions. It just creates noise rather than enlightenment.
The appropriate way to handle this: Take the issue from one stand point at a time.
Don't mix politicians, religious leaders, sociologists, high school students, fashion designers, etc. and have these people fight with each other with their own biases when it comes to the issue. This is a ridiculous scenario. Have a group of people from one academic discipline at a time to discuss the pros and cons of this phenomenon.
What's happening is that people are just bombarding each other with their biased ideas. Biased because, naturally, a person speaks from his own limited academic or personal view. The result: conflict/misunderstanding because the discussion doesn't meet on the same ground. If you want to talk about it from a religious perspective, then get people in authority from this sector and let them discuss the problem on their own objective analysis. If you want to speak about it in a political perspective, then also get people in authority from this sector and let them do the same as i mentioned above, and so on... When I say people in authority, i mean those individuals with proper education and experience in relation to their respective professional field.
In doing this, opinions that will come out in relation to this matter will be those that are precise and transparent.
i find it rather tedious that the subject of love and/or marriage is EVER posted as a religious topic. where does institutional religion get off believing it has a niche on such variegated propagation techniques, eh??
No, usmanali81, you're wrong.
Same sex marriage is not allowed by the ideals of the Christian faith as it is presented by infallible, sin-ridden humans.
Until God Him/Her/Itself comes to each and every single human being and proclaims that He/She/It feels one way or the other, everything is purely interpretation based on widespread propaganda of one type or another, all of it man-made.
Edit: Same sex couples choose to marry - or the poor excuse for a consolation prize, live together as monogamous couples, all the time, for the same reasons heterosexual couples do: Love, loyalty, companionship, affection and yes, just like hetero couples, lust.
Do you remember the true story of Hazrat Lut (peace be upon him). He was sent by God to those homosexuals. They were the first in the history of the world who started this rubbish and God just turned the city upside down after knocking them with his Prophet Lut (peace be upon him) and His scriptures of that time but they made a mockery out of it.
A satellite photograph of the region where the people of Lut (as) lived
The Lake of Lut, or Dead Sea as otherwise called
usmanalia, obviously you view the Bible as inerrant. Obviously you aren't even willing to entertain the idea that it's merely a collection of writings by early jewish and christian writers with, well, an agenda. How one can believe the genocide of an entire village is in accordance with the desire of God is beyond me. These writings have been translated over and over again in accordance with the views and agendas of the translators and the times during which the translations took place.
There was absolutely no understanding of homosexuality when these scriptures were written. The idea of sexual orientation was nonexistant. Any biblical references condeming same sex behavior, including Hazrat Lut, is focused upon the condemnation of violence and promiscuity, not homosexual behavior itself. Similar stories are written in relation to heterosexual acts involving such violence and promiscuity.
So, true story, hey, I beg to differ. It's like playing the old "tell it like it isn't" game where one person whispers something to the person on the right and waits for it to return to him or her as it's made its way around the circle. Couple that with multiple interpretations over many years, cultures, societies, and translators inserting their moral beliefs.
So, how on earth would this God of yours create a homosexual in the first place if such urges are sinful? Is a gay person supposed to suppress this drive for same sex relations? Of course not. This love is no different from the love between any man and woman.
First of all i admit that Bibles are not pure words of God as they have been passed with so many interpolations. But on the other hand, there is only one scripture in the world which is still in it's proper position, that's Qur'an. Qur'an, today, is the same as was 1400 years ago, it's in the same language as was 1400 years ago. Even hostile critics of Islam have grudgingly vouched for the purity of the Holy Qur’ân: "THERE IS PROBABLY IN THE WORLD NO OTHER BOOK WHICH HAS REMAINED TWELVE CENTURIES (now fourteen) WITH SO PURE A TEXT." — (Sir William Muir).
The same story of Hazrat Lut (peace be upon him) is mentioned in Qur'an with great detail.
We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind.
And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime! (Qur'an, Surat al-A‘raf: 80-84)
And if you are an atheist then you can not deny the archeological discoveries related to Sodom and Gomorrah (people of Lut (peace be upon him)).
National Geographic makes the following comment:
The mount of Sodom, a barren wasteland, rises sharply above the dead sea. No one has ever found the destroyed cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, but scholars believe that they stood in the Vale of Siddim across from these cliffs. Possibly flood waters of the Dead Sea engulfed them following an earthquake. G. Ernest Wright, “Bringing Old Testament Times to Life”, National Geographic, Vol. 112, December 1957,
Now, regarding God who created homosexuals, no, not at all. God created human beings who are decieved by Devils, Evils and their followers like Freemasons etc. To safeguard humans and in order to test them God sent 1,24,000 Messengers with scriptures or books. From which the last and final Messenger is Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the last and final Book for the whole of Mankind is Qur'an.
Finally, if you want to have sex then God permits you to do so BUT in the domain of marriage (between man n woman). Adultry, whether it be straight or homo is not allowed at all. You have to follow the rules of God in His universe as you follow the rules of Hubpages or any other organization which you work in.
I keep telling you god made to write and I work for him as a messenger.Most believe there were more messengers after Muhammad like Guru Nanak, Sai Baba, Paramahnsa yogananda, Baha'ullah to name a few.
I look at these masters as messengers of god.
Differs from person to person. In India it's very rare thing..
I puke ...to here that..
There are still many possible interpretations of the Qur'an. Do you mean to tell me all Muslims interpret the stories the same way? BTW, I don't believe in brimstone showers. And behold, there ARE STILL those who indulge in sin and crime!
The fact that it's 1400 years old and pure doesn't impress me in light of the topic of this thread. Again, there was no understanding of homosexuality or sexual orientation when this was written.
I'm not surprised no one has found the destroyed cities. LOL
Devils, evils and their followers, he he he. Testers. How convenient. It's just semantics and utilizing the insertion of these so-called "beings" (devils, etc) when faced with a rational argument. It reminds me of blaming my childhood antics on my imaginary friend.
And finally, I'm glad we agree, people should be able to have sex within the confines of marriage (gay or straight). So, gay marriage should be legalized. I said nothing about adultery, not sure where that came from.
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