Created in God's Image

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lone77starposted 15 years ago
C.V.Rajanposted said on the forum thread, "What is the most important verse in the bible?", "The kingdom of God is within you."

That's one of my favorites, as is the one that we can do the miracles Jesus did and even greater ones. Also, I like the one where Jesus reminds his enemies, "ye are gods."

But the most important verse is Genesis 1:26, that Man was created in God's image. If God is a non-physical, spiritual and immortal source of creation, that would make us inherently non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation. Yep, baby gods! Only we've forgotten who we really are. Genesis 2:7 gives us the other half of Man -- the mortal, Homo sapiens half.

Genesis 1:26 speaks to the purpose of the entire Bible. When God told Adam and Eve that they would die on the day they ate the Forbidden Fruit, they did not physically die. Genesis 5 tells us Adam lived for at least another 800 years. But how can an individual live for so long? One man didn't. Genesis 5:2 tells us that Adam was also a group (all of humanity, or the first tribe, at least), for "their" name was Adam, both male and female. Adam and Eve died spiritually. And as immortals, that death is a "long sleep" where the dreams are mortal consciousness. Only by awakening from that sleep does the consciousness gain continuity even after death; in other words, everlasting life. The purpose of the Bible, Judaism and Christianity is to wake up from that long sleep and once again be one with God.

Most Christians I've talked with don't believe in reincarnation and karma, but it's in the Bible. God wants each of us to have every opportunity to awaken, including through multiple lives. When Jesus talked about, he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword, this is the subject of "reaping what you sow;" in other words, karma. Many criminals are never victims, at least in this lifetime. They have to wait awhile longer to reap the seeds they've sown. Numbers 14:18 (the sins of the fathers) also is about this. Instead of a hypocritical God who shows mercy, but then makes innocent children pay for their ancestors' crimes, this passage is about the perpetrators themselves paying for their own crimes in a future life, "three or four generations" hence. After all, it says that God is slow to "anger."

And what's all this hate, vengeance and wrath of God? My grandfather was a Southern Baptist minister, and I just didn't get all this ugly attitude. If God is all loving, then anything in the Bible that seems to say otherwise is code for something other than this. Take God loving Jacob, but hating Esau -- in their mother's womb?! Esau likely stole someone else's birthright in a prior life. To balance his prior crime, he needed to have his birthright taken from him. Jacob was only too happy to oblige his twin brother. The apparent "hate" of God was code for karma, one of the effects of God's creation woven into the fabric of physical reality. The same could be said of jumping off a ten story building -- God "hates" you at the velocity of impact. But the love of God is still there.

If you've ever been outside of your body with full visual perception, you will know with a certainty that you are a spiritual being. If you've ever created miracles of the caliber of Moses parting the sea, you will know for a certainty that we were created in God's image. I have that certainty.

Scientists experimenting on such things as the paranormal typically are not following their own scientific acumen. An experiment needs certain ingredients. If you don't bring all of those ingredients to the experiment, then your results are not going to prove anything on the original hypothesis.

True paranormal phenomena are of the realm of creation. That realm is discontinuous in nature. Science and the principles upon which it is based is of the physical realm. This realm is continuity-based. Talk about oil and water!

Experiments on things that require faith should have faith, not doubt. Scientists are being ignorant (perhaps even stupid) if they think there is a chance such an experiment can succeed with skepticism clouding things. After all, they're baby gods, too. Having one's spiritual thumb on the scale is going to skew the results of any experiment.

When Peter stepped out of his storm-tossed boat to meet his mentor on the water, he abandoned all reason and found true faith. Such faith isn't the namby-pamby belief of someone who blindly follows whatever their minister says is true. Faith is 100% or perfect confidence. It is transcendent. It belongs to the discontinuous realm of creation, what the Buddhists called the "paramita." Thus "paramita" confidence contains no doubt. It is the perfect "one-sided coin" or "one hand clapping." Similarly, paramita "generosity" contains no selfishness. Paramita "wisdom" contains no stupidity.

Perfect confidence is akin to perfect vision, but also creation. This is the realm of being one with God.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't it contradict having a mind when there are so many books to read and you only concentrate on one to base your belief?
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! What an interesting assumption.
  
  You imply that I've read only one book and that I have wasted my mind. What shallow thinking this.
  
  Have you read "Bhagavad Gita," "Reincarnation of a Yoga," "There is a River," "Burnham's Celestial Handbook," "Kabbalah, The Way of the Jewish Mystic," "Using Turbo C++," "Guns, Germs and Steel," "Plato, Timaeus and Critias," "Startide Rising," "Atlas of World History," "Stars: Their Birth, Life and Death," "Foundation Trilogy," "What is Quantum Mechanics," "Orphans of the Sky," "Childhood's End," "Ender's Game," "Fundamentals of Modern Chemistry,"...?
  
  Judge not, lest ye be judged. That might sound a bit preachy, but some wisdom is solid gold no matter who says it.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Out of all those books you read, I understand religions design clearer than you do from only reading 1 book.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You actually read one book? Please tell me which one. And please share your wisdom that you understand so much more clearly.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think a hub would have served a better purpose.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A better purpose than the discussion of truth and the search for it? What can be better than that?
  
  If you think that you're only that one meat body, and when that dies, all that was "SirDent" will vanish, then what valuable purpose can you have? To help build civilization? Forward the aims of science? Those sound good, but even the Earth will perish. In about a billion years, as the ratio of helium to hydrogen in the sun's core increases, the sun will become bright enough to make Earth unlivable. That's about 3.5 billion years before our sun leaves the main sequence. Do you think that SirDent's one, non-spiritual life will amount to much on that scale of time? Perhaps not.
  
  Would a spiritual perspective prove more valuable? Maybe. And it depends on what you do with it.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True, that's because real scientists have nothing to do with paranormal nonsense.
  
  Not true, as long as the scientific method is being followed, the results of the experiment should show the hypothesis valid or not.
  
  Talk about nonsense.
  
  Yes, it is the scientists that are ignorant and stupid, not the believers.
  
  No, it isn't.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you a "real" scientist, Beelzedad? And who are you to judge what is "nonsense." The fact that you cannot get out of your body for a walkabout looks like nonsense from my perspective. The fact that you cannot create miracles also looks like nonsense. The only thing holding you back is your attitude, and I don't mean that in a demeaning way.
  
  Attitude kept scientists from investigating Troy. It took an amateur to break through that barrier, Heinrich Schliemann. Bouyed by his discovery, some scientists joined in the effort and discovered Minoan Crete, Mycenaean Greece, and things slowed down a bit in that arena for about a hundred years until other scientists broke through attitude again to discover Amazons in the burial kurgans of Southern Russia. The "ridiculous myths" were proving to be based on reality. Judge not, my friend. Use a little humility. Real scientists do.
  
  Attitude crippled North American anthropology with its "Clovis first" dogma. Some scientists were afraid to dig below the Clovis horizon for fear of what they might discover there that could jeopardize their careers. Now that's the kind of nonsense you might want to be aware of.
  
  My award-winning essay, "Outsiderness in the Scientific Community," speaks to this barrier to the fruits of discovery -- a barrier right in the hallowed halls of science.
  
  I could talk astrophysics with you, or planetary formation, geology, atmospheric science, adiabatic lapse rates, tectonic plate subduction and crustal folding, but why should I bother? I'm only a scientist talking "nonsense."
  
  What is "stupid?" Is it creating barriers in thought that prevent cordial discussion of ideas in the exploration toward truth, wherever that might lead? As Shakespeare once said through his tragic hero, Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Stop thinking small. The discussion could prove far more interesting.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The paranormal is nonsense, one does not have to be a scientist to know that.
  
  That's what is referred to as a strawman argument.
  
  That's another strawman.
  
  If you were an award-winning scientist, then you'd know the paranormal is nonsense.
  
  And yes, I'd be happy to talk any of those subjects with you.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I like it... I can see this concept not going against those things that Jesus taught. It does however go against Church theology and/or interpretation. (Judiasm Islam and Christian)
  I do believe that Church theology and interpretation has sent humanity down the wrong path.
  Could religiousity be the beast that John saw rising up out of the sea in Rev. 13 ??? If it was ??
  The 42 months that was given should be finished very soon in our future.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some interesting points, Jerami. So, you think we're living in the days of Revelation? You might be right.
  
  Interpretation is tricky sometimes, but one item in recent history seems to match Revelation better than some other things. The incident at Chernobyl. In Revelations, it talks about a great or heavy star leaving a pestilence across a great portion of the planet. How could a first century man talk about nuclear reactors? It so happens that stars (including our sun) are nuclear reactors, but they're using light elements (hydrogen and helium). The manmade reactors use "great" or "heavy" elements. So, in a very real sense, Chernobyl was a "heavy star."
  
  Such things are relatively trivial, though. The real importance is finding truth. I've been through dozens of layers of relative truth, and feel as though I have a few million more to go through. It's quite humbling.
  
  Jesus, Siddhartha Gautama, Lao Tsu, Hubbard and others have revealed portions of that truth to us. But ultimately it is up to us to continue making the breakthroughs on our own, using their work as inspiration.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  That "heavy star" explanation seems to me a far reaching interpretation of Chernobyl. Of course you are referring to conjecture.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And "far reaching" is opinion and subjective. The above interpretation was of Revelations, not Chernobyl. The incident at Chernobyl was fact.
  
  Interpreting the "heavy" or "great" star of Revelations as referring to the factual incident at Chernobyl certainly is conjecture. But if you were a first century man, how would you describe Chernobyl if you were to see this incident from the future? The range of damage caused by Chernobyl seems to match that described in Revelations, as well. In my opinion, not so far fetched.
  
  On a personal note, my sister-in-law (from Romania) recently lost a few relatives from cancer, thought to have been caused by the radiation from Chernobyl. I looked at one of the maps of the event, and Romania was down wind to the accident. That country was the hardest hit, outside of Ukraine, USSR.
  
  As I said, such things are relatively trivial compared to spiritual awakening. Yes, even the death of relatives in something that might have been a fulfillment of prophecy. But the loss hurts no less.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Interpretation is not tricky at all. Whatever gave you that idea? I mean - you are doing exactly what people have been doing for centuries - applying modern day event retroactively to fit so as to justify the waste of your life believing this nonsense. This is how people make themselves feel better and quash the cognitive dissonance you are so clearly displaying. Ahhhh ... denial.
  
  All total garbage of course - no one actually believes this nonsense - you don't believe this stuff and then go around having conversations online, keeping a job and buying new cars etc. You prepare to meet your maker, divest yourself of all worldly goods and go out doing good works. Like a real christian would. They do apparently go about clearing traffic lanes though.
  
  You are funny to watch I must admit. Love seeing you call people out for merely expressing an opinion and being subjective. LOLOLO That is probably the funniest bit.
  
  Tell us some more "facts" preacher man. Your "ficticious interpretations" do remind me exactly of the same nonsense during The oil crisis, The cold war, WWII, The Depression, WWI, etc - right back through Genghis Khan.
  
  The End is Nigh! Repent!
  
  Very impressed that arrogance is one of those character traits preventing people from believing the garbage you do and seeing clearly. And I will die a shallow life apparently - while you will of course have lived a rich rewarding life scaring children and persuading people that their relatives dying from cancer is a good thing and - it was told in the bible so it is not worth doing anything to prevent those things from happening. . Great. How rich and rewarding is that?
  
  I wonder if you see how that creates ill feelings towards people like you? Is that your intention? On a personal level - thanks to your words - I despise your ridiculous religion just a little bit more. I really hate it when I am included in a broad sweeping statement which calls me arrogant and shallow.
  
  Still - if Konflict is what you want - this is the way to go about getting it. Keep pushing - perhaps the desired final Konflict will come out of it.
  
  Jesus would be proud.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking in generalities seems to be a great talent of yours. Most of the things you mentioned implying that they were my point-of-view are completely foreign to me. And was I including you? My goodness. Such a touchy ego.
  
  You despise my religion, but apparently you don't know what it is, because you're reacting to other people's interpretations of Christianity and the Bible. Not mine. They have it wrong. Some of them say the universe is only 6,000 years old, because the Bible told them so. Actually, it says no such thing. And science proves that they're wrong. A little humility on their part might show them that. But you and them are alike in that way. Humility seems foreign to you both. And that's sad.
  
  Like anything in science, wisdom of spiritual things does not come easily, especially when their is dogma to dig through. You say that I'm impressed with arrogance? That's a laugh. I think arrogance is sad. If you search for my award-winning essay, "Outsiderness in the Scientific Community," you will have an understanding of what arrogance can do to cause friction in progress, even in the hallowed halls of science.
  
  Yes, your type of arrogance is sad. A lack of understanding and the attitude that you know it all can only get in the way of discovery. I pity you if you ever find yourself outside of that body of yours. The shock just might be too much to take. But most people are blindly attached to their bodies and fearful of losing them.
  
  Arrogance that doesn't even take the time to read that which it comments on, seems a wasted effort. And yes, if you live your life like that, then it would seem such a terrible waste of space and time. But hey, that's just me. I'm not all-knowing like some in this discussion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And now we are lying. Par for the course of course (sic), . all about being persecuted for no reason. lolol
  
  If I may be so bold as to say "liar, liar, pants on fire"?
  
  Still -Konflikt is what you want - you ego-less Creator you.
  
  Dishonest, veiled attacks of this nature are typical of your ilk. Now it is all me doing the attacking huh? You never said these things did you?
  
  Scroll up for the lie.
  
  I pity you the delusion you have chosen to live in and really pity you that you are unable to see how you cause the conflict yourself.
  
  Hopefully that was specific enough for you?
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark is leaving the religion forums.
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/21694#post368746
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for that update, SirDent.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That was actually posted about 7 months ago. I usually go back and find it just to put things in persepctive when Mark calls someone a liar.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Well thanks, anyway. In a logical debate, Mark would lose on the basis of groundless assertions. He may have had his reasons, but in debate, those reasons need to be stated dispassionately, and without ad hominem. But perhaps he didn't take logical debate in college.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aww - you mean it was really me doing the attacking after all and you did not call everyone arrogant who could not magically make traffic vanish because they are ego-less?
  
  Dear me.
  
  Welcome to hubpages - I can see you are going to fit right in.
  
  Poor, poor you being attacked ad hominem, what with me pointing out that you made a passive aggressive attack on us non believers. Not sure how that qualifies as an ad hominem attack seeing as it is there in black and white for all to see, but - I bet you feel vindicated and persecuted for absolutely no reason, like a good Kristian........
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is why Mark Knowles could be possibly charming in real life despite his cynicism.
  
  http://www.ted.com/talks/james_randi.ht … dium=email
  
  ENJOY! THIS IS ACTUALLY A FUN TALK
  
  just goes to show that personality can make a big difference to content.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thx SirDent
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But then you invited me back Dent. So - here I am. Thanks for the welcome back.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I did not invite you back. Makes no difference anyway. No matter who invited you back or not, you still broke your word.
  
  I would not bring this up if you would stop calling so many people liars.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He's an 'addict' Sir Dent, and he cannot get by without his 'fix' of Christian bashing....Of course we all pander and feed his habit by providing him with opportunities to 'score' his daily fix.
  
  But even if we all just stopped telling folk about Christ, he would still stalk the halls of the forum looking for less eloquent victims to attempt to intimidate, manipulate and deceive....
  
  Hang on... that's witchcraft!
  
  Oh well, he came back, that's a fact.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. I genuinely believe your religion is evil and needs eradicating. Intimidation, manipulation and deception are the tools of your trade. Read your book.
  
  I see Dent has deleted his own forum swansong though. And I am pretty sure no one invited him back.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure what you mean about me deleting something from the forums.
  
  I have deleted some comments I made but don't remember saying I was leaving, though I have expressed that I felt like leaving at times.
  
  Refresh my memory please.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Can't find it - but you were leaving..... Deleted it and you don't remember saying you were leaving huh?
  
  Dear me.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So weonly have your word for it then don't we. Nice try.
  
  You still broke your word. I think trying to switch blame to someone else is called a strawman.
  
  I said before, if you stop calling people liars, I will not post that link anymore.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL
  
  It really bites that I accepted your invitation back, doesn't it, Dent? Good for you deleting and "forgetting" LOLO I am sure God is very proud of you. I will call a liar a liar where I find one. Post that link all you like.
  
  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have to have brown eyes because you are so full of it.
  
  Now show everyone where "I" invited you back.
  
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I know you are genuinely deceived about Christ, although I would agree with you about Churchianity.
  
  What Christ teaches us is in no way evil, how people interpret that to fit their own doctrines may well make what they do evil, but the fault is with man, not Christ.
  
  I do not say that I am perfect, sometimes I allow myself to be goaded by you guys and the human nature in me reacts rather than responds, other times I can answer you scripturally and things quieten down.
  
  I really don't care whether you lambaste us in the religious forums, OK you believe that in some way you could possibly 'eradicate' Christianity with your posts..... dream on!
  
  The Sanhedrin failed
  Rome failed
  Satan failed
  The Roman Catholic Church failed
  Churchianity in general has failed....
  
  Christ cannot be defeated by mere man.
  
  He will ONLY surrender His authority and power back to God alone.
  
  I've read my book, and God wins....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Using fear , intimidation, deception and hatred. What a wonderful God you have imagined.
  
  Fortunately - there are people like me prepared to stand up aginst your Churchianity, which shows with every breath you take.
  
  Sadly - you are too blinded by righteousness to see it.
  
  Threaten me with the Holy Spirit again.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Oh Brother!!! God can't win anything, because He doesn't exist. It's the insane people who invented this nonsense, and the blind followers that will win. But what will they win? Nothing! Yours is a fantastic delusion.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe one day you'll getitright.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I hope you don't mean by becoming a convert of this nonsense, that has no basis in reality, and abandoning my mind. No! Just the mere thought of that makes me want to puke. You are hilarious! It is you who needs to get it right.
  
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll leave the answer up to YOU to figure out.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good morning No I do not think that we are living in the time of tribulation that Jesus spoke of.
  That tribulation that is said to be greater than ever "before" or "After" happened when Jesus said that it would; during that generation that he was speaking to.
  The sermon of discourse was a "PRIVATE" conversation when Jesus told Peter, James, John and Andrew things that THEY were going to see and experience.
  Interpretation of prophesy is the problem that comes to life when we interpret Prophesy. We should interpret prophesy as "LITTLE" as is posible.
  Gabriel gave us the interpretation of Daniels visions...
  So they need no further interpretation. They also give us a guide to follow in understanding the book of Revelation because the same simbols are being used.
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  alternate poetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Jerami - I am interested in your interpreting as little as possible approach. I do not believe anything much but I do think that the people who pretty much invented society, cross-bred the farm animals, etc, would have thought that what they were doing would have been a kind of philosophy, rather than a theology. In that case I would like to know what you think they said - not least because we are due a discussion tomorrow about 2012 Do you have a few best guesses for the end date predicted ?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have been attempting to clense my mind from all previously learned interpretations of prophesy. Reading those things that are written only.
  Timelines as revealed in prophesy are a diffrent timeline than the one that we are in.
  Imagine God giving a message to the Angel Gabriel. God would do this using terms that Gabriel would certainly understand.
  Angelic terms pertaining to time. Gabriel then delivers this message exactly as given to him.
  
  42 months computes to approx 1643 to 1656 of our years.
  Counding backwards fron the year 2012 we would arive between 356 and 370 AD
  We find that one of the seven districts lost a Pope. Liberius was deposed and sent into exile after a disagreement with the Emperor. I think that this is the deadly wound that one of the seven heads of the beast recieved and then recovered from this wound. Liberius was called back to Rome where he regained his position of Pope in Rome. The head recovered from his deadly wound.
  
  The forty two months that the beast was given to blaspheme will have been accomplished around the time that 2012 comes around.
  Though 1260 days is exactly 42 months... 42 months is approx. 1260 days if ya think about it?
  I think that something major is going to happen with the Church system around 2012. What else I have no clue.
  
  This is very complicated to explain when attempting to say no more than what is written.
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  alternate poetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is very clear - thanks for that. I was trying to argue that the apocalypse could just be for the religion itself just the other day - on balance I think I will put my tinfoil overcoat and hat away again !
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lone77:
  Lets see; "...god said, let us make man in our image." hmmm!?
  We humans began as killers, historically, we have been warring and killing, today we continue on this "killing" journey. I'll compare our killing activity with that of this biblical god thing:
  1.Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
  2.Kill Witches. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
  3.Kill Fortunetellers. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
  4.Death for Hitting Dad. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
  5.Death for Cursing Parents. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)(Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
  6.Death for Adultery. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
  7.Death for Fornication. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
  8.Death to Followers of Other Religions. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
  9.Kill Nonbelievers. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
  10.Kill False Prophets. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
  11.Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God.(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
  12.Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
  I've only listed a dozen of hundreds of evidences of this biblical god thing flying into rages and demanding the death of "its" creations
  Seems to me that IF there is this biblical god thing, "it" DID create us in "its" "killing" image.
  Why would a "DAd" get angry and kill his children if they are a "chip-off-the -old-block?"
  Extreme psychopathy? Evidently so...or maybe just human imagination running amuck..eh?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Notice ALL of your scripture references are the Old Covenant of "sin and death". We are under the New Covenant of grace and truth, which comes through faith. Sin caused death under the Old Covenant. Murder is the killing of the innocent for no justifiable reason. To murder in the name of God is sin. To murder oneself and others in the name of God is sin...as is holy in the Qur'an! Satan is the "murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44). When God judges sin in the end and sentences those who do not live according to faith in Him (through Jesus Christ), He is justified in doing so. Romans 12:19 states, "Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, 'Vengeance belongs to Me. I will pay them back', declares the Lord."
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hahahahaha...you just made my point so poignantly!.. that all who read the corrupted scriptures have their own personal OPINION of what it means.
  "Believers" read with preconceived notions of what they want to believe.
  That is why, today, there exist about 40k differing sects of protestantism and that number is increasing by the week, each interpreting scripture to meet "its" needs.
  Then, of course, there is catholicism which adamantly demands that they have it right and all others are blasphemous.
  Oh..I almost forgot, then there's "lone77star" who arrogantly professes his interpretation of corrupted scripture to exceed the opinions of all the others because he, it seems, has been "gifted" with "knowledge" of the "true" words and meanings of this "god things," alledged words.
  Lone77star, have you considered that you might, just might be, the 2nd coming?
  OH MY GOODNESS! rotflmao!!!!!
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very TRUE. THOSE WHO READ "CORRUPTED SCRIPTURES"...or is it the INTERPRETATION IS CORRUPT, have their own opinions...corrupt, of course. Consider a foolish Accountant. Formulas are already programmed into the spreadsheet to prevent error or corruption. The Accountant's bottom line isn't adding up, so instead of searching to find the problem (as there obviously is one), s/he forces a number to "make it work"...thus is the problem ~ the perfect formula is now corrupted, so next month when the bottom line doesn't add up, the same is accomplished. While the Accountant can get away with this for a time...eventually the Owner will FIRE him/her. Thus, the gospel according to the "parable of the Accountant".
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Judah;
  You have 2000 yrs of historical, writer, and religious corruption enclosed between the front and rear flaps of your bible.
  1000 of those yrs, the most powerful, autocratic, controlling theistic oraganization that existed on this earth at that time i.e. roman catholicism RULED!... all who resisted DIED IN THE NAME OF GOD!
  If you don't think that that evil, corrupt, deadly body of control didn't destroy and adjust all they could get their hands and minds around to mold whatever existed, to their way of thinking for posterity and the survival of the church, then you haven't done your homework.
  Pls go back and visit the 21 ecumenical councils that began in the 300's AD and ended in about the 1500's and convince yourself that the purpose of those councils wasn't to insure the viability and survival of roman catholicism.
  You are a simple "follower."
  You are not an educated, credible thinker in ref to the religion you tout.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am also not a Catholic any more than you are, nor am I guilty of such things as killing another for "apostasy" from what they call "the Church". I could refute the un-Biblical doctrines of Catholicism all day, thank you.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you!
  Now tell me that as a "christian" you don't represent the deadly, disgusting history of death, torture, and ignorance of those of your ilk who preceded you...c"mon!
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I represent the Light that was sent to save you from such a fate, for either the Word of God is true and every man a liar, or the Word of God is false and every man is true. Have YOU ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen? Have you ever lusted? If you answer truthfully to these questions, you are a liar, a thief and guilty of adultery. I guess anyone would believe your philosophy. Jesus was not proven a liar, thief or adulterer...I think I'll follow His teachings rather than yours. Deal?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your if this, then that argument is a nonsense. I had to read it twice to see if you were serious!
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't know this jesus!
  Wouldn't it be just as insane to guide your life by the words of a human you don't know and who never wrote or spoke a word of anything you've ever read about him as it would be to worship a god thing that you can't define and can only "guess" about in ref to what it is?
  hmmm?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You represent? All righty then, the um "light" gets a bad case of the PMTs. Which is - of course - why the Word states clearly that women are not to preach. Hormones.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It says no such thing. Study to show thyself approved unto God. "Women" is translated "wives" in those passages. Her HUSBAND is her covering and will speak on their behalf in church. The orignal words for "man" and "husband" are different, as the words for "female" and "wives" are different. The wife is not to teach her husband as in having authority over him. This doesn't mean a female can't preach (unmarried or married) even to "men" (unmarried or married). These passages explicitly have to do with the husband and wife's relationship. Husband and wife are to serve each other.
  
  Junia was a female apostle, saved and preaching before Paul was. There were also four prophetesses of God mentioned in the Bible. Deborah was a judge...I can go on and on. You don't honor God or His Word and only take passages out of context (unstudied) to oppress people. No one is surprised; this is your calling, but is not overlooked by God. Saved women have the same Holy Spirit dwelling in them as any saved man does. It's not by our sexual gender we preach, but by His Spirit. There is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free-man ~ we are all ONE in Christ Jesus...renewed to His image in which we were created...'Let THEM rule...'.
  
  The Bible also says, Mark, that until you confess Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior you are condemned. Who are you to preach at all? You speak of your flesh and not by the Spirit, for the Spirit cannot indwell you until you are born again. THAT is the gospel ~ take it or leave it. You're like a liar that gives a speech on telling the truth...sad.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  judah you are a cold drink of water on a hot day!!!but the ones you speak with are not debaters but only scoffers!!!
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, brother :-) I know Mark has a hardened heart (mind), but who knows IF God is penetrating that shell of fossilized sand...he's a big fish and fights like "hell". God is not mocked and His Word goes forth to accomplish what He sent it to do ~ even if it means the hearer will mock...just as a teenager does when he's too immature to "hear" until he's grown. You are the wonderful slice of citrus on that glass of fresh water! God bless you!
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Geez! That "Old Testament" was some rough stuff! Wow! That totally represented some harsh MDK (Murder Death Kill) codes upon thee... LOL!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  __________________________________________________________________
  Wow, nice to meet you. Finally someone who "knows" on the same lines that I "know".
  You are so correct.
  Faith is the unwavering unified mind.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very nicely written and true, keep penning and ignore the stupid ones.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  1 Corinthians 1:27-29 "God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God."
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like god written believers insurance in this.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Why does your God have to play such mind games? This is very unbecoming of a supreme being.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One needs to be in a similar frequency to understand spiritual books.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  getitrite said, "Why does your God have to play such mind games? This is very unbecoming of a supreme being."
  
  From a limited, mortal point-of-view, yes, it seems that way.
  
  Part of discovering the truth in any research is having the humility not to assume that you already know. For instance, some North American anthropologists already knew "Clovis first" was right and made a living hell for other anthropologists who were afraid to dig below the Clovis horizon,... at least until "Clovis first" was proven wrong. Good science doesn't assume anything. And you're assuming that, to God, it is a mind game. How wonderfully arrogant of you. ;-)
  
  And why is it "my" God. If there is a God and He created the universe, then He would be everyone's God (at least everyone in this universe).
  
  Consider this possibility: the true self (immortal spirit within) cannot wake up unless it strives to look at certain things. If the human host is arrogant (like so many creationists, and other skeptics), then they blind themselves to that path and they won't see. But if they are humble, don't pretend to know it all, and ask heart-felt questions about such issues, then they may be able to see the doorway leading back to awakening. Most Christians I've met miss this.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lone77star:
  Why do you make such a "big thing" out of that which you cannot define in other than opinion and conjecture?
  This god thing you "worship" cannot be defined, cannot be known, is incorporeal and exists as a metaphysical, supernatural entity! Yet you adamantly profess it's "reality" and let what you read about it,(all corrupted writings created by simple, ignorant men) guide your life and thoughts to the point that you'd argue about "it" knowing full well that that argument can't be won from any point of view.
  Your arguments are trite, asinine! absurd! and incredible!
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With an exception over lonestars argument, which I feel to them must be factual reality- therefore unintentionally miscued, I have to agree with you Qwark.
  
  The other day I was watching Bill Maher's,"Religuious." He shows a portion of a Presidential candidates debate. What party they were, I'm not sure. You only see a glimpse. Anyhow- the mediator of the debate asks the question, "Who does not in Evolution, and therefore believes in the Creation story?" Over half of the group of "educated" men raised their hands. For some reason I thought you. Which is a compliment.
  
  Your comments do impact people Qwark.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Intimat:
  Your comment is appreciated.
  I doubt tho that my comments have much impact.
  I'd like to think they do, but, I feel that to most, who take the time to read my well thought out comments, think of me as playing too deep in "left field" to be considered a credible "player."
  Thanks tho for being thoughtful and responding in kind. :-)
  PS I love Mahr!
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh me too! He is on my list to record.
  
  You do bring a sense of factual reality to religious argument. I like that about you.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  TY :-)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God can be known, meditate.
  
  "Nirvana is no the blowing out of the candle.Its is the extinguishing of the fame because the day has come."Rabindranath Tagore
  
  "First become death and discard the hope of life and become the dust of the feet of all ,only then yo can come to me." Guru Nanak
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  atlas_khanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is no GOD but Allah. The only one.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With a name like atlas I guess you know all about it!
  Your god stories were around thousands of years before your god. Why don't religious fanatics do any reading?
  Part of your last sentence was entirely accurate! There is no god!
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  atlas_khanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  this is the reason that people read what they like and leave the other essential part of the sentence which actually complete the meaning of sentence. Be practical. Really this may change your life.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  in reality, man made god in his own image=)
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
spot on.

He escaped the Need To Know factory; the slave pits of consciousness and tasted Grace/Purity.
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paarsurreyposted 15 years ago
lone77star wrote:

God is a non-physical, spiritual and immortal source of creation

Paarsurrey says:

Since the Creator- God Allah YHWH is only attributive and all physical and spiritual beings have been created by Him; the above sentence needs to be rephrased properly to make it factual.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Paarsurrey, I would love to make it factual. Tell me what you mean by "attributive." You imply that I should rephrase the sentence, but could you help my understanding by rephrasing it for me? How would you do that?
  
  In the meantime, please let me elaborate on my statement.
  
  Our language is a poor tool for some things. Words are formed that have strange multiple meanings. For instance, Earth is the name of our planet, but it also means "dirt." Welcome to the planet "Dirt."
  
  "Sol" is the name of our sun, but for lack of a better word, scientists are muddying the meaning of our sun's name by using it for all "extrasolar" suns, so the Epsilon Eridani system is a "solar" system. That's a bit like Bob has a family, so every family is a "bob" family.
  
  So, what is "God, Allah, YHWH?" Certainly, He is not Homo sapiens, though Genesis says that Man was created in His image. We are Homo sapiens, but we must also be something else, if Genesis is at all logical (if not mysterious in its approach).
  
  Physical objects can be "destroyed," or to be more scientifically accurate, "transformed." Atoms can become ions, or individual particles (electrons, protons, neutrons, mu mesons and the like), or plasma, or pure energy. God, if He exists, would not be physical. He would be non-physical, because He cannot be destroyed or so transformed.
  
  Nothingness is non-physical, and God, if we would describe Him, is not "nothingness," in the strictest sense. Spiritual would seem the best English word to describe a consciousness that is not based on physicality. Anything that can be aware and make judgments on the goodness or badness of things possesses conciousness. I choose to picture that consciousness as being spiritual, rather than physical. Are there other dimensions of existence? Perhaps. I would certainly like to know more about this.
  
  I would think that God would never die. Of course, being outside of space-time, the concept of a beginning or an ending is likely not accurate for that realm. Thus, I think it is relatively accurate to say that God is immortal. Again, words are not perfect, but they're all we have with which to discuss such things.
  
  And God is a source of creation. You say as much in your reply, above. Having done some creation myself, one in particular of the caliber of Moses parting the sea, I can understand the mechanics of creation to some degree, though it has taken me more than thirty years to understand more fully the apparent miracle that happened on Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles in 1977.
  
  One moment, I was sitting frustrated in traffic, experiencing six near-collisions within two short blocks on this, one of the busiest streets in the world. It was rush-hour, and people were being as rude as some of the posters on this forum topic. The next moment, I realized that I had been creating the difficulty around me. In that moment, I was no longer looking through the mortal ego. My viewpoint had shifted to that of the true self, the sleeping immortal within. If feel the slumberer stirring even as I write this. In traffic, that day, I was no longer frustrated, but very relaxed. Traffic could do whatever it wanted to do. I was no longer in a hurry to get to my destination. I was no longer vulnerable as the ego had been.
  
  The next moment, I pictured a more desirable situation -- wide open spaces and smooth sailing all the way to my destination. Then I rested from my creation. The creation itself had zero duration in the time stream. By "allowing" it, the creation "rotated" into the time stream, gaining the additional dimension of time or persistence.
  
  And the next moment, the car directly in front of me moved into the already crowded lane to the right. The car in front of them moved to the left. Right and left, for as far as I could see, cars evacuated the center lane. Within seconds, the center lane in front of me was devoid of cars, while the lanes on either side remained even more thick with snarling traffic. More than two thousand cars had participated in my silent request. More than two miles of empty center lane was traversed by me, and at no time did anyone turn into the now empty center lane ahead of me.
  
  I know some who view reality selfishly would want to use such an ability for selfish purposes. Arrogance, disbelief, and skepticism are all barriers to such an ability. It seems, one needs perfect confidence (the antidote to doubt) and perfect humility (the antidote to ego) to work in the realm of creation.
  
  What Jesus said about making a silk purse out of a pig's ear applies here. The hecklers will die shallow lives, never realizing that science and spirituality both seek truth. And some scientists are also believers, humble to discover truth as it is made available, whether in the laboratory or through epiphany.
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The God of the Bible is a Father; Allah is not. 1 John 2:22 states, “This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.”
  
  Rev 13:1 “Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.”
  
  Some of the names of Allah:
  
  “Lord of the Dawn” Q.3.54
  Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the dawn! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”
  
  “The Best of Deceivers” S.3.54; cf. 8.30
  Revelation 12:9 “And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.”
  
  Ad-Darr, The Creator of the Harmful; he who creates which makes one despondent
  
  Al-Badi,The Originator, The Incomparable; he who creates wonders in the universe without any design
  
  Al-Kfahid, The Abaser, he who diminishes or decreases: "We have put chains around their necks chin high, and forced them to lift up their heads."
  
  Al-Matin, The Forceful One; his subtle scheme is exceedingly
  firm
  
  Al-Mudhill, The Dishonoror; he who lowers and puts one in abasement or degradation
  
  Al-Mumit, The Taker of Life; he who created death
  
  Al-Mutakabbiru, The Most Proud One
  
  Al-Mu'akhkhir,The Delayer
  
  Al-Qabid, The Constrictor
  
  Al-Warith,The Inheritor of All; he who has everlasting ownership of all things. Finite man only has temporary ownership, and at death all creatures have nothing.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  John is stupid for saying this, it should be removed from the Bible.
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Judah's Daughterposted 15 years ago
While you're on the right track where elohim is concerned "ye are gods" (we are only part of elohim when we are "in Christ"), as Jesus was not speaking to His enemies when He quoted Psalm 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." In John 1:12 Jesus said, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." We are not all automatically children of God. We are "adopted" back into a relationship with Him only by faith in Him. If you need scripture passages, I will give you many. We must be "born again" (born of the Spirit) through faith. Our single fleshly birth doesn't do it.

Regarding karma, that is not biblical, for it is fully works-based "salvation". Eph 2:8-9 state "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." I have a hub called "Karma and Christianity" that will straighten out the crooked interpretation you have on this subject.

Reincarnation is also not biblical. The Jews appeared to believe in reincarnation when they thought Jesus was the spirit of John the Baptist or Jeremiah the prophet. Prophecy comes from God alone and anyone who is a "prophet" speaks by the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God indwells all believers, but that does not mean we have the spirit of a dead mortal prophet of God living through us. This is why Peter's confession that Jesus is the "Son of God" was accurate!

Take it or leave it, but you're going all over the map. Your brain is working too hard; get back to the basics and submission to the Holy Spirit rather than the demonic ones that are influencing your thinking (perhaps the "sins of your forefathers" visiting upon you in your generation?) Sins visiting upon you is not the same as reincarnation. You probably should have listened to your saved grandfather. I think you are just in rebellion...come back to the knowledge of the truth; repent.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And yet wisdom follows humility. Judge not, Judah's Daughter, lest ye be judged. Your command of scripture is not as good as you think it is. John 10:33 shows a very angry mob of Jews ready to stone our master to death. Not enemies? Curious your interpretation.
  
  Why is your interpretation not blindness and mine rebellion? When one approaches the gates of heaven, one does it empty handed, asking for that wisdom, not prideful that they already have it. I give my interpretation based on logic, experience and inspiration of the spirit. The spirit has moved me to share my experiences and my discoveries. If someone shows respect for that, then I am quite willing to discuss the issues and compare notes. There are many layers to the body of truth. Even Jesus did not share some of those to the public-at-large, but only to his disciples.
  
  Through the grace of God, I have been outside of this mortal flesh and seen my physical environment without mortal eyes. And thankfully, I did not need physical trauma or other abuses to facilitate that revelation. I have experienced many miracles, one of which was comparable to Moses parting the sea. Both of these prove to me the validity of Genesis 1:26, that each of us was created as a non-physical, spiritual source of creation. Baby gods.
  
  I have also remembered past lives, and that tells me that we are immortal. In fact, greater awareness of the past (truth) was what made the miracles, above, possible. The truth will set you free. Hiding in a limiting interpretation will not.
  
  Some think the Earth and the cosmos are only 6,000 years old, because "the Bible tells them so." Yet, the Bible tells me that Noah's Flood occurred 27,970 BC and Adam was born 10,454,130 BC. Some have the wrong interpretation of scripture. I only hope I continue to learn beyond my own layer of truth.
  
  The everlasting life of which Jesus spoke is not immortality for the flesh. The awakening of the immortal within gives us continuity of consciousness that extends beyond the boundaries of this current physical life. Without awakening the spirit within, continuity of consciousness is broken with the body's death, though the sleeping immortal continues on in its ungodly state, poisoned by the Forbidden Fruit.
  
  And that "fruit" was not physical fruit that one might pluck from a tree. It was a matrix of dichotomies which are the "flesh" of the ego -- right-wrong, good-evil, generous-selfish, compassion-indifference, victim-perpetrator, and many others. Just as the "Tree of Life" is a symbolic pattern, revealed by the Kabbalah, and embedded in Genesis 4 and 5, the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" is a similar symbolic pattern -- a powerful pattern of thought, fear and anger that locks us into our mortal existence until we accept the gift of everlasting life. I, for one, would not want to think I've accepted that gift only to find that I misunderstood the message and still had other things to do to earn that gift.
  
  Even though I have asked for miracles and received them, and even though I have been graced with the experience of seeing through the immortal eyes of the spirit, I don't assume that I have recaptured God's graces. I still hunger for them. My interpretation is still incomplete.
  
  So, when you feel the need to be right, as so many people who post on forums do, you're feeling the ego at work. The ego thrives on being right, and feels damaged when it is made to feel wrong. It is the ego which holds resentment and revolts against forgiveness. Perhaps it is ego that is the root of all evil, for from it springs all selfishness, pettiness, self-righteousness and the like. The ego is a false self -- a physical universe construct which obeys physical law rather than God's law. Though intangible, it is thus vulnerable, like any physical object.
  
  I still struggle against my own ego and feel blessed when the spirit stirs from its sleep. One day, this unworthy mortal will awaken fully the sleeping immortal, and I will have done my task. I will truly be born again, not just pay lip service to the idea. I have faith that it will happen, when the time is right -- when I have died by all the swords by which I have lived in lives past.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said in John 12:48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.”
  
  2 Tim 4:2 “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.”
  
  So this “Judge not, lest you be judged” is once again used out of context where you’re concerned. Explain the book of Judges and remember that King Solomon was a judge. In the end, the Word of God is the judge, and interpretation that goes outside the scope of scripture is walking the dangerous line.
  
  The same Jews that put Jesus on the cross were His chosen of Israel (Jacob). The Word of God given in Psalm 82:6 was not to enemies, but the “sons of the Most High”. He quoted this to them to defend His statement that He is the Son of Elohim. While on the cross, Jesus prayed that this horrid sin not be eternally held against them, that they still might come to the knowledge of the truth to be saved: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34). He said He came “only to the lost sheep of Israel” (Mat 15:24). Yes, some were “sons of the devil” (John 8:44), but He came to save them. That's where "adoption" comes in.
  
  Jesus explains his parables in the Bible as well. If we have the “wisdom of God” we will understand them. Many false prophets use the statement that Jesus only revealed hidden mysteries to His disciples to try to say they, too have been given insight by the Spirit no one else has. 1 Pet 1:20 states, “no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.”
  
  Signs and wonders follow them that believe (Mark 16:17) and OBE's were not listed; we are not to follow after signs and wonders. The Antichrist and false prophet will have abilities far beyond the human scope, convincing others that they are “god”. Likewise, the way you portray this is that you are a “baby god”, and so are others that experience such things. I wouldn’t trust in supernatural experiences, if they go against God’s Word. This includes astro projection, New Age philosophy and so forth. If the OBE is consistent with the OBE’s of the Bible and it’s outcome does not contradict the Bible, then it most likely is of God. More and more OBE’s are happening in these latter days and false teachings follow. The sign of this is for the “wicked” (Mat 12:39) and the sheer miraculous nature of such a testimony will cause many to be led astray by the subsequent false teaching. You probably think Edgar Casey is of God? Check out his background in my hub “The Oracles of the Last Days: 2012”. His foundation is identical to that of Joseph Smith.
  
  Where do you get the date of the flood and Adam’s creation in the Bible? Considering God told Noah to build the ark and Noah was the 10th generation from Adam, you are incorrect and contradicting scripture.
  
  You said, “The everlasting life of which Jesus spoke is not immortality for the flesh”? Really? Was Jesus raised in the same body He died in? Is that not called the “resurrection”? Have you studied the two resurrections of our bodies in Revelation 20:5-6? Yes, our soul is immortal and our bodies will be raised incorruptible (1 Cor 15:52). The fruit of the Spirit is outlined in Galatians 5:22. Because of your “karmaic” thinking, you still believe we do something to “earn” the gift of salvation. A gift is free. All we must “do” is “believe” and trust in the completed work of Jesus Christ. "Fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Geenna - the Lake of Fire]" (Mat 10:28). Sounds like quite the after-life doesn't it?
  
  Your accusation of “ego at work” is also false. The pot calling the kettle black. “Ego” is the center of New Age philosophy…of which you are buried head-first. Paul rebuked false teachers by the Spirit of God; I do the same ~ all of God’s children are to do so. One day you’ll be “born again”? One day? Today is the day of salvation (2 Cor 6:2). The new birth happens upon faith and confession in the Lord Jesus Christ. The growth accomplished after that new birth is accomplished by the Holy Spirit in us. We don’t work toward achieving the new birth. Your teaching is contradictory to God’s Word.
  
  “It is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment” (Heb 9:27). We don’t die over and over again through different lives, nor do we “earn” salvation. That is a doctrine of demons. I sound harsh? Let me leave you with Paul’s words to false teachers in Acts 13:10: “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?”
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And it seems we will continue to disagree on the meaning of scripture.
  
  The standard Hebrews 9:27 objection to reincarnation is hollow, because it favors neither view. Let me explain.
  
  I agree that one man (Homo sapiens wrapped around immortal spirit) will die once and will be judged for the merits and demerits of their lifetime. The sleeping immortal (child of God), if not yet awakened to God, will be reborn into another Homo sapiens body, and that body will die only once, and be judged for its merits and demerits.
  
  And I could call your interpretation of scripture a doctrine of demons, perpetrated by egotistical bishops under the direction of a Roman emperor.
  
  I don't have all the answers. I keep asking God. In that I remain humble. Some who proclaim to have been born again I have found not to be so humble. Their certainty in things that have been disproven by science long ago led me to question their believability.
  
  “If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema. (The Anathemas against Origen), attached to the decrees of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, A.D. 545, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 14: 318).”
  
  Thus, one of the church's founding fathers, Origen, was now considered an outlaw by Emperor Justinian and by his privately convened ecumenical council. Apparently the Pope at the time was arrested by the emperor because the Pope refused to sign any decree condemning Origen and reincarnation.
  
  And today's church is based on this doctrine of demons established by a power-hungry emperor. Their skewed interpretations have colored humanity's idea of scripture ever since. Belief in a lie is not faith.
  
  Even good scientists know that truth needs to be approached with humility or restraint (not skepticism).
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Just curious, What "Using Turbo C++" book has anything to do with theology ?
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  marinealways24 said near the top of this topic, "Doesn't it contradict having a mind when there are so many books to read and you only concentrate on one to base your belief?"
  
  Marinealways24 was assuming too much. Their statement was not about theology, but about my "belief." My "belief" is based on a broad range of reading, including dozens of books on computer programming, dozens of others on astronomy and astrophysics, a few on geology, and dozens on religious and spiritual matters, and hundreds of others in my library at home. My bachelors degree, summa cum laude, is in information technology. Nature, the universe, spirituality, programming code, art, nuclear physics, and more all have patterns. Some of those patterns seem to have similarities across disparate disciplines. So, Turbo C++, Studies in Logic and Probability by Boole, and others have been the basis of my beliefs.
  
  Back in the 70's, when I studied electronic engineering, I enjoyed the mathematics. It all seemed pretty easy. Perhaps my most interesting moment on the subject, though, came while studying the "tank circuit." This is a coil and a capacitor in parallel. In laymen's terms, this was a radio tuning circuit. What was interesting was the epiphany I had. I had been studying astrophysics, too, and knew of absorption and emission spectra. When I read about this wonderful circuit, I realized that I was surrounded by tank circuits -- trillions of them! You see, each atom is both a coil and a capacitor.
  
  Recognizing patterns and finding truth. Pretty cool stuff.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
One last comment before I go to work.
Prophesy is not clear as to how long after the 42 months is finished before all of prophesy is to be fulfilled.
One thing is clear, the 1000 years that Satan is bound in the pit was contained within the 42 months of the Beast.
And after he is realeased for a "Little Season"
During this little season the 42 months is finished.

a "little season" would be approx 119 of our years.

At least; this is the way that I understand what is actually written after "Interpretations" are removed.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now, this is good. I like it.
  
  And a real good point. Ignoring reality is tantamount to delusion. Most creationists do that. They think they've got the market cornered on truth while condemning scientists who've had the market cornered for some time (at least the physical, continuity-based variety of truth).
  
  But, as Shakespeare said, through his tragic hero, Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
  
  I've had several spiritual experiences this lifetime. One was being outside of this mortal body, and seeing without mortal eyes. Quite humbling. And it didn't require drugs or severe trauma.
  
  I've also created (like Genesis 1:26=baby gods). A purely physical body cannot break or circumvent the laws of physical reality. Perhaps the most startling such experiment was parting more than 2 miles of traffic on one of the world's busiest streets during rush hour. Snarling traffic remained on either side of an entirely empty center lane. Empty ahead of me, at least.
  
  Someone who is perhaps more interested in truth, than stroking their own ego, might want to find out more about such things.
  
  How could Peter step out of his storm-tossed boat and walk on water, if only for a moment? And what happened that his sudden ability slipped through his grasp? The doubt that resulted in his sinking, after having walked on water, is the same doubt found in skepticism.
  
  And it doesn't take a genius to figure out what this means about scientists attempting to investigate such a phenomenon. If an experiment requires sulphuric acid, you don't bring instead bring chocolate cake. If an "experiment" requires faith, then doubt is like passing water onto the fire you're trying to investigate. "Oh, look! There is no such thing as fire. I proved it!" Pretty dumb, if you ask me.
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  Danny R Handposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No wish to comment on seeking God?
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Seeking God? Good idea! I give it two thumbs up.
  
  Thanks!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A question and 2 points---
  
  After you cleared that street, were you arrested in the middle of it for nudity or carryin' that detonator?? hahahaaaa
  I'm joking, but
  I had to ask, 'cause when you compared yourself to Moses here and in your profile, it doesn't gel. Moses believed in God, yeah even the future "reincarnation" of Him in the person of Jesus Christ, but not in human reincarnation as you so erroneously tout it.
  
  Point 1---whatever "little gods" you "created" were of your own imagination, unless you're into cloning or some such experimentation, and that's not of God.
  
  Point 2----
  
  Sorcerer, remember that Aaron's "serpent" devoured the serpents of Pharoah's magicians.
  
  P.S.
  Peter walked on water, yes and AMEN!
  But the answer as to why he didn't continue to do so is because it's a lesson we all should learn, that we can do nothing without the Lord. Humans have a thing called ego. When God helps us do something, we're prone to wanting to do it all on our little lonesome after that.
  
  Later, when Peter's shadow healed people, it was evident that it was because he was filled with the Spirit. Without that, it wouldn't and couldn't have happened except as a fake.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And what exactly does "filled with the spirit" mean? Dieu en moi (Gen.1:26).
  
  Jesus was incarnated (not reincarnated), because he was already enlightened (awake of the spirit, possessing everlasting life, or continuity of consciousness past bodily death, the immortal and true self awakened).
  
  And yes, humans have ego. That's the physical universe construct (false self) that gets in the way of our awakening. Like thinking you know it all, so you don't ask God for more, and making silly jokes about something that could prove important. Perhaps the only way to approach the gates of heaven would be as a beggar -- empty handed and full of humility.
  
  I share my experiences because it would be selfish for me to hide such a beautiful gift from God. Asking questions about it is one thing. You can ridicule me, and that's okay. But ridicule the gift and you ridicule the giver.
  
  You have an interpretation of scripture. I have a different interpretation, not for my sake, but for the purpose of becoming once again, one with God.
  
  Your understanding of what happened to Peter seems admirable, but it is missing important elements. The miracles occurred because of faith. Even for many who were healed, Jesus told them it was not himself that did the miracle, but the faith of the person healed.
  
  Genesis 1:26 is the key to understanding the entire Bible. The act of getting rid of ego is the act of being reborn in the spirit, or awakening the child of God within, or obtaining everlasting life (continuity of consciousness despite bodily death).
  
  Jesus talked of reincarnation when he told his disciples that John the Baptist was Elijah returned. His disciples were discussing reincarnation when they asked their master about the man born blind.
  
  When we ate the Forbidden Fruit (yes, you and I), that was a sin we bear up unto today. And God, wanting his children back (that's us), would want to give us every opportunity to do just that. That includes having as many lifetimes (reincarnation) as possible.
  
  When Jesus talked of those who die by the sword by which they had lived, this is the definition of karma. Not all criminals become victims in their own lifetime. That's why Numbers 14:18 tells us that the sins of the fathers are visited on the children unto the third and fourth generation. The fruit of the sinner is harvested long after the seeds were planted (God is "slow to anger").
  
  And there is wisdom in that slowness. The criminal with a hardened heart (full of ego) would never repent for his crimes. The apparent "victim," paying for his earlier (unremembered) crimes through his own karma, finds himself wondering about the apparent "unjustified misfortune." The door to his heart is now open, if only a tiny crack.
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
LOLOLOL

You guys are representatives of this invisible super being? I am genuinely laughing out loud at that. I bet the Dark Lord is pleased about that claim, because if you guys are heaven, I would rather spend eternity in hell. You hubris is astounding. Thank you Mummy and Daddy for telling me what to do because you know soooo much more than me...... I can't decide whether to mock or scoff forst.

Mock, scoff, mock, scoff.........
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Close your eyes and count to three...okay, your wish is granted :-O
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deary me. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
  
  Great excuse on the Word of God not applying to you though.
  
  Excellent work.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You mean "great argument" how Mark's word of god doesn't apply to me...let's get the statement accurate.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So be it...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLO
  
  The funny thing is - Not only have you invented this super being, you feel comfortable handing out punishments in His name. LOLOLOL
  
  I love you guys. Thank you so much for turning me away from religion and allowing me to see the wondrousness of the world un-filtered by the idea that I am special.
  
  Mock, scoff, laughing in your faces. LOLOLO
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's the point, Mark ~ we don't follow a "religion" ~ we follow Jesus Christ, YOUR Savior that YOU reject. No one can twist your arm. It's your choice.
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Rishy Richposted 15 years ago
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And what do you do on Twitter ~ READ. If the Bible were on Twitter, you'd find Christ on Twitter. I hope you'll pick up a Bible and consider following Christ ~ He's just a prayer away.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are all of these passages true about Jesus?
  
  "And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
  
  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
  
  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)
  
  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)
  
  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)
  
  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)
  
  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)
  
  It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)
  
  On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)"
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN!! The Lamb of God was predestined to be the Savior of ALL who believe from the foundation of the world. The names of mankind are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, yet those who refuse Him have their names blotted out of that Book and will be judged according to their deeds ~ out of "the books". We will all stand before God one day and if we are saved, Jesus stands in our stead.
  
  Regarding those with faith getting whatever he/she asks in His name, believing...it also must be the will of God and not our own. 1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him." Mountains can symbolize great obstacles the Enemy has placed in our lives. I've seen "mountains" removed in an instant that plagued my life for a decade. All in God's will and timing; praise God!
  
  God bless the reading of His Word you've posted here on HubPages!!
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying we can pray and get anything we want? Notice that many pray and do not get what they want. Some pray and don't even get food to eat.
  
  How do you address this paradox from Jesus?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I edited to add to my previous comment, but I think you posted before I added the following to address this "paradox": Regarding those with faith getting whatever he/she asks in His name, believing...it also must be the will of God and not our own. 1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him." Mountains can symbolize great obstacles the Enemy has placed in our lives. I've seen "mountains" removed in an instant that plagued my life for a decade. All in God's will and timing; praise God!
  
  The Bible says in Ps 37:25 "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." Our righteousness is Christ through faith. This is a promise we stand on. Look at how all the nations came to the rescue of Haiti and other starving countries. Jesus said in Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'"
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then, Jesus isn't a god? They were his words, yes?
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is God in the flesh. Check out my hub "Who Do You Say That I AM" or even this link http://www.biblicalresources.info/pages … hrist.html
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  @Judahs Daughter
  
  If jesus were a god in human flesh, then it would have been a rare anomaly in the history of creation.I would say...an event that might occur once in a million years. Such intervene by God should have shook all parts of universe and should have effected every single life form. However, if u go through the history of mankind from 20 to 30 A.D. u will find that greater things were happening in other parts of the world. At that time, people of those places(i.e. india, america, china) were completely unaware & absolutely unaffected by the events that occurred in the roman empire. Coming of Jesus was relatively insignificant event compared to other events of that time. Such insignificant events occurs frequently, such messiahs like him comes & goes everyday. Its not Gods teachings that make you love jesus. Rather, 'its the Roman's politicization of Christianity that made him popular...
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is not "a god" in human flesh; He is THE GOD in human flesh. "There is no doubt that Jesus Christ is the greatest man who has ever lived in all of history. He changed the world forever. When He was born, He transformed the very way we measure time. He turned aside the river of the ages out of its course and lifted the centuries off their hinges. His birthday, His Incarnation, touched and transformed time. Now the whole world counts time as Before Christ (BC) and AD (Anno Domoni - in the year of our Lord). Jesus Christ is the central figure of history. More books have been written about Jesus Christ than any other person in history." Quoted and beautifully stated: http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/greatest%20Man.htm
  
  Jesus was born a Jew. The Bible is written from a Jewish perspective and fulfillment of the Old Testament in the New. I am not Roman Catholic and believe many of their doctrines are unscriptural. Jesus Himself said there would many false "christs" and this is a sign of His coming...amongst many others that are scripturally prophesied and have been/are being fulfilled even this day.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "There is no doubt that Jesus Christ is the greatest man who has ever lived in all of history. He changed the world forever. When He was born, He transformed the very way we measure time. He turned aside the river of the ages out of its course and lifted the centuries off their hinges. His birthday, His Incarnation, touched and transformed time. Now the whole world counts time as Before Christ (BC) and AD"...
  
  So did Muhammad(in fact muhammad did greater things than jesus), He divided the moon and united it, flew to heaven in less than a second and had a chat with God as if they were buddies, started arabic time and date(Hezira) and he didnt even die a virgin like jesus
  
  Evidence
  
  Evidence
  
  Evidence...
  
  Do you have it?
  
  No You Dont!
  
  People wont care what shit you believe unless you prove it.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are so on the right track...except for your ***. You REALLY want your eyes opened regarding Islam? Read my hub "The Unholy Trinity". You want answers?
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wonder why didnt you get a Booker prize for that at least the church should have given u a prize for being so Idiotically annoying
  
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Idiots" always call others that prove them wrong "idiots"; of course "idiots" don't understand that, and so many other things...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lunch anyone? I need to unplug my internet for a while...so i don't have to see these kinds of posts. love thy neighbor......love your enemies....love makes the word go round....all you need is love....love is the answer to so many questions i don't know so I begin my endless journey, where is the meaning to my world? i see the answer now.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love corrects, rebukes, exhorts, instructs...even disciplines. If you truly love someone tell them the truth. The hippie "all you need is love" is not scriptural love. Love, JD :-)
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  @ JD... Repeat that line 100 times infront of a mirror ...then u will start to understand everything
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you were open to learning, you would be wise. Read my hub "The Wisdom of Fools".
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "The Wisdom of Fools"...Is this ur Autobiography?
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yet you are still debating what He said two thousand years later.... know anybody else that stirs up such passion?
  
  John
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hahaha...this jesus never spoke nor wrote one word of what Beelz typed...NOT ONE WORD!
  Every word you read in the NT is "HERESAY."....EVERY WORD!
  You must check the definition of "truth" and apply it when you consider saying "jesus said."
  ....and you must study the evolution and promulgation of the book you call the NT.
  It is obvious that you haven't.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew, Mark, Luke and John contain all that Jesus ever said in the flesh. The rest of the Bible is inspired by Him. Even look at Revelation 1:1. Wake up, son of the father of lies.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  None of what you read in the bible are the words of jesus.
  They are the words of storytellers whose words over time and interpreter have been so corrupted that there is not one "credible" depiction offered.
  The NT was not even ready for promulgation until almost 300 yrs after jesus alledgedly died.
  Stories were passed down from generation to generation and finally resulted in the book you consider to be truth.
  At the council of nicea, in the early 300's, Constantine and the "boys" were trying to figure out if this jesus was god or the son of this god thing.
  You must study.
  
  tsk tsk
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God does not hear sinners (John 9:31). It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man (Matthew 15:11).
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as expected..the "truth" goes unheeded.
  tsk tsk
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes it does...tsk tsk
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Judah's daughter,
  
  If you love your child and she is not eating, you don't force feed her. That's not love. That's forcing your way into another. You can continue to convince your child to eat it but you can show how good the food is, how it can be good for her. And most importantly, to first understand why she is not eating. Maybe she does not like asparagus. Maybe she has a tummy ache. Just maybe you need to understand her before you can make her eat the food you are feeding her. That's love. Spanking is not good for a child but sometimes, some people do it because they have run out ways to teach effectively.
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  Judah's Daughterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand what you're saying and no one is "force-feeding" the Word of God. This is a religious forum and various viewpoints are being discussed. Some have better manners than others. It never fails that those who have no belief in God show up only to stir up distraction from the topic. Who even knows where lone77star went?....
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know... He is hugging his award-winning essay, "Wilderness in the Scientific Community,"
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your remarks and way of writing feels so familiar...hmmm.
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  qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know! lol the truth is often presented to believers but never considered.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Psalm 14:1
  
  The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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Rishy Richposted 15 years ago
from Jesus & Mo... One of my favourite
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
Nothing like taking a very informative thread and changing it into attacking others. This is hijacking...

Maybe if you read with understanding, you might actually get something out of it. But who here wants any improvement of themselves?

Sir Dent maybe should start a hub about his disagreement with Mark..

Those who don't believe in God, start a thread where you can make fun of it.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no...Here comes the enlightened one again...few
  
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  he he he, nice cartoon!
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
Love isn't always cuddling, kissing etc.

Love can be tough.
If a child runs into the street and a parent grabs the child from danger..love is relief at first..then the parent out of LOVE corrects and admonishes the child.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did Jesus call u last night?
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If he calls again...Say 'Hi' from me
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey dont make a fun of it...I wasnt Joking ...I dont want to hurt mrs sexton
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah Sexton said, "Love can be tough."
  
  A very good point, Deborah. For the longest time, I didn't understand how the mild, turn-the-other-cheek, love your enemies rabbi could get all rowdy in the temple and whip the money changers.
  
  It's the same reason God brought a flood to wipe out most life on Earth, if indeed the worldwide innundation actually occurred.
  
  Anything that gets in the way of our spiritual awakening is breaking the law. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. These mortal bodies mean little compared to the mission to awaken God's catatonic children from their immortal slumber -- a slumber brought about by the poison of the forbidden fruit.
  
  With the Flood, something endangered the future of civilization -- a corruption of flesh on a deeply physical level. Something messed around with the human gene pool. And one species bit the dust right when the new Genesis timeline says the Flood occurred. Civilization is important to that mission. That other species, and their hybrid offspring, stood in the way. What parent wouldn't do just about anything to save their endangered children?
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  Danny R Handposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible teaches specifically that we are to seek God above ALL else. If we do this, our and everybody around us, lives will be effected. So, let me ask you. IF, we are seeking God with ALL of our being, what does the other stuff matter?
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't, nothing matters, not humanity, our future, the earth or anything else.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If the other stuff is done in support of the prime purpose, then it's all cool. For example, taking good care of your precious human life (good food, exercise, less stress, forgiveness instead of resentment) can help that purpose by keeping you alive longer, allowing more opportunity to awaken fully to God.
  
  Some people think they've already arrived, but I don't see any of them walking on water. I don't require proof of their faith, but I'm more inclined to follow my own instincts, logic and inspiration, than their opinion of scripture. I'll listen to the ideas of others, if it's something new to me (or something old couched in new terms), but I'm the one ultimately responsibility for whether or not I make it all the way back to my true spiritual state (being one with God). I'm not going to abdicate that responsibility to a poor translation of the Bible (and there are some), or a poor idea baked up by a Roman emperor with ulterior motives, as some of current Christian doctrine seems to be.
  
  Discussing wisdom with bright individuals who want truth rather than stale interpretations can also be good. With so many conflicting interpretations, doesn't it matter to get it right rather than follow a blind leader? Asking tough (but respectful) questions can be vital. Questioning mortal authority, is good, too... especially your own. But the authority of God is not the same thing as the interpretation of others.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My grand father (a fourth grade drop out of 1915)explained it best. 'Keep it simple, stupid" If somethin is broke look for the simple fixe before ya start lookin for complicated answers.
  To see what the limb looks like ya gotta shake all the leaves off of it. That means; If ya wanta see what the truth is ya gotta look past the alibys and excuses (in this case all of the Interpretations)
  I think that all the interpretations are "Religions" way of hiding the truth.
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
I call that "saving your own species" from danger.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  more precisely, your dna
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very nice, Earnest. I like it!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
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philip carey 61posted 15 years ago
Dad was an Atheist and my mom was an Agnostic. They were constantly arguing over which religion not to raise the kids in. -- Woody Allen
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Gotta love Woody!
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Thus the Spirit in us enables the removal of the constant wondering/thinking/acting in confusion -that is sin consciousness.
The Spirit moves us to 'child like faith' not 'childish faith'.

Childlike faith moves mountains, heals others, etc.
Childish faith pouts, whines, cries, stomps it feet, points it finger, blames the neighbors dogma for breaking the lamp...
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ok...Can u tell me what happens to ur spirit when u clone somebody? Do the Spirit gets split or new spirit is being created by science?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing happens to 'your' spirit.
  Cause it isn't actually yours, unless you fine folk have found a way to 'brand', 'bible' or 'pillbox' any single instance infinite energy.
  
  Spirit splicing, that's funny, RR.
  
  Not for nothing, science & religion have never 'created' anything.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hmm.. may b wrong number, thought ur one of those soul lovers
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Does science create life when it plants a seed?
Does it make any diffrence if Science causes it to grow in soil,water, or air? Did science "MAKE" it happen?
Did science bring forth "LIFE", if it plants the seed on the moon and it grows?
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I just want to say 2 things.
  
  One...u still havent answer my question in the other post
  
  Two...Finding limitations of science is not going to make religion look better!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Which question was that?
  I was responding to does cloneing produce a NEW soul.
  I don't know for sure exactly what a soul is or where it comes from. Maybe the soul originates in the egg? And there are diffrent ways in which it is activated to create a physical body with the materials that it was given? I do not know. I can only suppose.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow...a religious man who doesnt know what soul is...but still believes in Soul ...am i getting u ryt?
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
let's just put a lid on both and turn off the heat.
This way they'll choke the life out of themselves
and save us all a lot of useless trouble.

science fashions weapons so religion might wage war against itself as well as the science that fashioned it. -James
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
The most stupid of people can know that the sun is shinning and not know what the sun is.
Or not know what hunger is an yet, still know how to quench it.

Do I presume to know what a soul is? NO
Do I feel what ever it is within me ? I think that I do.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not knowing is not ignorance, not learning is!
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So u do feel it is within u..eh? so what happens to dat when we clone u
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not know? do you?
  I would suppose that the material that was taken from me would direct the egg as to how the new body would be formed.
  
  But as yet; we have not determined what exactly what the soul is or where it comes from.
  The best that I can express my belief on this issue would be...
  
  If I put a dry sponge out in the yard and tomorrow morning it is wet; Does mean that I have create moisture?
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No dat means u had a wet dream in the yard...
  
  You dont knw wat happens to ur soul when u clone ur body bcoz u dont want to know! Using fallacy to cover the flaws of ones blv is either another way of sticking with ignorance or sign of hypocrisy!
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  for all practicle purposes that may be what happens when ya put a human cell into an unfurtalized egg where a soul comes from?? Ya just put a dry sponge out in the yard
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It could just mean you offered toiletry services to a passing dog.
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is perhaps the only valuable thing I've seen written here by you, Rishy Rich. This is a powerful and significant distinction, what you said, "Not knowing is not ignorance[;] not learning is!"
  
  Blindness can be self-imposed by considering something impossible and thus not investigating it thoroughly. North American anthropologists did this with their "Clovis first" dogma. In my award-winning essay, "Outsiderness in the Scientific Community" (first place Krupnick Award, Los Angeles colleges), I expand on this idea and offer possible solutions. Scientists are not immune from self-imposed ignorance. Neither are some skeptical (and at times rude) posters. ;-)
  
  Perhaps it would surprise you to learn that "not know" is also a part of the mechanics of creation. When I first learned this counterintuitive idea, it was hard for me to grasp. But when I finally got it, so-called "miracles" were relatively easy. I learned this tidbit in a different religion. And Buddhism helped me to expand my understanding.
  
  Only then was I able to see this knowledge in Genesis. After the creation (the blueprint or template in Genesis 1), God rested (allowed the object of that creation to manifest in Genesis 2). With that knowledge, parting more than two miles of traffic on Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles at the height of rush hour was effortless. And this was not for the glorification of Rodney Carl Martin, Jr. (the mortal writing these words), but for the child of God, within.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you plow driveways in the winter with that amazing power?
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Jerami, are you saying you have no idea what a soul is but you claim to feel one within you and believe it to be a soul?
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  lone77starposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And didn't Einstein feel a solution within himself about the difficulties inherent in 19th century physics, though he had no idea what that solution could be when he started out on his epic journey? He won a Nobel prize for his efforts. He valued imagination over knowledge, because some solutions cannot be reached by knowledge and logic alone. He showed great humility in his search for truth, a trait sorely lacking in the unimaginative skeptics trolling here.
  
  Do these trolls have warts, gnarled fingers and hunched backs? I wonder what's behind that beautiful mask of Einstein. He is one of my heroes; Beelzedad isn't.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Continuously insulting people because they don't believe in your version of the sky fairy is poor form. You can believe in fairies if you want to, but telling others they are trolls because they don't is just pathetic.
  
  Being sceptical of a story that is completely illogical and full of hate does not make one a troll.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Look out Earnest - this guy can part traffic with a thought.
  
  Offhand I don't think I can come up with a less useful miracle to have magicked, but still.... Powerful juju.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have seen a few posts like this that draw a long bow with "truth" Anyone who disagrees is apparently not as clever, or knowledgeable.
  It must be wonderful to be that intalektuel!
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please feel free to provide a source and explanation of what it is you're talking about?
  
  He won a Nobel prize for the photoelectric effect after working in the patent office reading the materials others were submitting.
  
  It's interesting you would create a strawman argument using Einstein in a way I've not seen before, well done.
  
  You appear to know more about me than Einstein, and what is it again you think you know about me?
  
  Btw, thanks for stopping by to insult.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Some love from allah.

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

No surprise your religion is responsible for so much hate torture and death!
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  atlas_khanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my God! You have just closed your mind,eyes,heart. You are just not to think positively about Islam. First be cool minded and then we can reach that who is responsible for so much hate torture and death.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh your god!
  I just quoted directly from your book of "love"
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  atlas_khanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have made even no try to underfstand the sayings you quoted. You need to know the actual reasons of revealing of such sayings from Allah. If you try this, then you may be able to change your mind.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have read the bible and the other hate filled pile of controlling lies the quoran from cover to cover and probably know more about it than you will if you live to be 100!
  Don't tell me I don't spell it correctly either, I know alright?
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  atlas_khanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  earnestshub! r u there?
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lone77starposted 15 years ago
@topgunjager, I agree that some have created God in man's image, particularly in comic books and Hollywood movies. But many have not had the experiences that prove a spiritual side of existence. It is understandable that they think there is nothing to such unseen aspects.

Some people believe blindly in things and frequently that gives "belief" a bad name. Some people believe the world is flat, even in this day and age. Incredible! Some skeptics believe that Plato's Atlantis was only myth with no basis in reality, but they have no proof. Why is their belief any better? Because they have a negative belief? Yet, recent research shows that an Atlantis-like event occurred 9620 BCE, including a 2-meter drop in sea level which could only have been caused by a massive tectonic collapse somewhere in the world. The date and magnitude of the worldwide sea level drop makes Atlantis the likeliest suspect.

Because most scientists have decided in advance that there is nothing to the subject, they have chosen not to look and therefore have missed such evidence. It took an amateur to find Troy because scientists had pre-judged the story and refused to look. Believing blindly is something that scientists have done all too frequently. Skepticism is just such a "belief." Scientists would find "selfless restraint" a far better paradigm.

On the subject of the spiritual nature of Man, two websites I found recently might prove interesting. They offer proof of reincarnation. One is about a boy who had nightmares about his World War II plane crash. Another is about a young girl from India.

We each create our own reality. In reality, we are "gods" of our own personal realities. Some of us choose blindness and refuse not to look. Thinking you're only a meat body (Homo sapiens) is an easy belief to fall into. Physical reality is so obvious. Some religious believers have delusions not based on reality. And some who are spiritually adept have knowledge that looks like delusion to those without similar experience, but that knowledge is far above reality. Knowing the difference is not easy for some.

Just because one cannot get out of their body with full visual perception does not mean that no one can. Just because one has not felt God, does not mean that no one can. Describing such experiences is usually beyond our limited human languages. But we try.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  You appear to have created a fantasy, not a reality.
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wildernessposted 15 years ago
Lonestar, it would seem that simple skepticism is not a very big part of your reality. Consider the example of Atlantis that you provide. A 2 M drop in the oceanic levels. A little math:
Area of the world's oceans - 3.6X10^14 M2.
Times a 2 M drop - 7X10^14 M3, or 7X10^5 Km3.
That's a 700,000 cubic kilometer hole in the ocean! Or, put another way, the entire atlantic ocean (8.2X10^7 Km2) dropped 8.5 meters (never mind that it's on 2 different plates)! A massive tectonic collapse indeed. One giving rise to vulcanism on a scale the earth has never seen and one that would cause a "volcanic winter" sufficient to again kill nearly all life. Sorry, my skepticism over-rides your "evidence".

Such things such as "out of body" experiences, mediums, telekinesis, etc. have all been "tested" numerous times. All (that is every) instance a failure. How many failures does it take to decide that such "realities" are not real at all?
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